May 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Two jumbo jets filled with passengers came within seconds and mere feet of colliding over Japan in a high-stakes aerial game of chicken. Join Alice and Zach as they explore the harrowing near-miss that almost became one of aviation's deadliest disasters. On January 31, 2001, a Boeing 747 and McDonnell Douglas DC-10 carrying nearly 700 people found themselves on a collision course when conflicting instructions from air traffic control and automated safety systems created an impossible dilemma for pilots. Discover how split-second decisions averted catastrophe and how this terrifying incident fundamentally changed aviation safety protocols worldwide.
Sources:
- SimpleFlying.com article: https://simpleflying.com/japan-airlines-mid-air-incident/
- Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Japan_Airlines_mid-air_incident
Find FINAL BOARDING CALL online:
- Website: finalboardingcallpodcast.com
- Instagram: @FinalBoardingCallPod
- Facebook: Final Boarding Call discussion group
Credits:
Final Boarding Call is hosted by Alice Stern and Zach Stemas, researched and written by Alice Stern, produced and edited by Alice Stern and Zach Stemas.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Picture this, you're sitting ona jumbo jet at cruising altitude.
The seatbelt sign was just turned off.
The flight attendants begin theirdrink service, pushing the beverage
carts down the narrow aisles.
You're settling in.
Maybe you're looking out thewindow at the clouds below.
(00:22):
When suddenly, without warning, yourstomach lurches into your throat.
Your body floats upwardweightless for a split second.
Hot coffee splashes across the cabin.
The flight attendant who wasjust pouring your drink is now
suspended in mid air and through thewindow, another massive aircraft.
(00:46):
Passes by close enough for you to justmake out the individual windows of its
fuselage in an instant hundreds of lives.
Hang in the balance as two aircrafteach weighing hundreds of tons
and traveling 500 miles per hour.
(01:09):
Nearly collide the margin for erroris measured not in minutes or even
seconds, but in fractions of asecond and mere feet of airspace.
So stow your tray tables, fasten yourseat belts, and prepare for turbulence
(01:30):
because this is final boarding call.
Hello and welcome to Final Boarding Call.
I am your disaster obsessed host, Alice.
And as always, I am joined by myreluctant homebody husband, Zach.
It's me.
Mr.
Reluctant.
(01:51):
Mr.
Reluctant on the mic.
All right.
Zach, do you have anywords for the people?
Hello?
Mm.
I'm going to apologizeagain for my scratchy voice.
Unfortunately my voice is notcoming back quite at the rate
that I was really hoping or ever.
Yeah.
Zach has a theory that it will neverreturn, and that's absolutely terrifying.
(02:13):
It will get better, I promise.
But, please tough out one moreepisode with my, uh, I think the
podcast term for, this is vocal fry.
You know, like, oh, vocal fry.
Before we dive in, a quickreminder to our listeners.
Please rate, review, subscribewherever you get your podcasts.
(02:34):
We are gonna give out stickers forpeople that are rating and reviewing.
You know, hopefully you rate high.
I don't know.
Zach, do we still give a stickerto somebody who gives us two stars?
I'll send you some kind of sticker.
We'll, you'll receive somethingin the mail we promised that.
Wait for my owl.
Oh my gosh.
(02:55):
Okay.
So this episode is.
An interesting one because itwasn't covered by like, my major
sources that I usually use.
Because like I said, when wecovered the episode about St.
Martin, not every episode that Iwanna do is some super dramatic,
catastrophic, this, that, or the other.
(03:15):
Or famous.
Or famous.
This episode.
Is something that was terrifyingfor the people that were on board of
these aircraft, but it really wasn'tcovered very heavily in the media.
So if you are a true undercover aviationnerd, this is gonna be a fun one to
pull out at parties because you know,everybody really has heard of Tene.
(03:37):
Not everybody has heard of.
The near miss of Japan Airlines,flight 9 0 7 and 9 58, and
that's what we're covering today.
My sources are simplifying.com.
They did a really great, anniversaryarticle actually about this
case as, as well as Wikipedia.
All right, here we go.
(03:58):
January 31st, 2001, justthree days after my birthday.
Yes, Zach was not born in 2001,but my birthday the 25th, her
birthday, not my day of birth.
My birthday.
That is so true.
It began as any other winter day in Tokyo.
At Aida Airport japanAirlines Flight 9 0 7.
(04:22):
A massive Boeing 7 47 400 dwas preparing for its routine,
two hour journey to Okinawa.
Naza, we've talked aboutthe Boeing 7 47 before.
She a big girl, right?
She is big with three Cs.
The economy seats are 10 across.
(04:44):
It is three.
Four seats in the middle, andthen another row of three.
So it's a 3, 4, 3 configuration.
So that's huge.
So this is a routine two hour journey.
It's going to ok.
Okana, Okinawa.
Okinawa.
Don't you dare Zachary.
I'm doing the best that I can.
(05:04):
This is one of the most famous.
Or most well known placesin Japan that everybody has
heard the name million times.
Well, guess what?
Ask me questions about Chan bud.
Been there, done that?
Been to Ro.
Surprised there.
Surprised that you didn'tsay Tokyo like 37 times.
It is Tokyo.
(05:25):
Tokyo.
Tokyo.
I'm gonna beat you up.
Tokyo.
Tokyo.
Our first merch is just going tobe like 19 wrong pronunciations
on a shirt of like, like a city,and it'll just be crossed out.
I would be a funny shirt.
I'd be freaking hilarious,and that is my life.
(05:48):
I'm sure we're gonna have somevery fun pronunciation of pilot
names in here, because you gottathink when I'm researching this,
I'm not saying it out loud.
So the first time that I say these namesout loud is to you on the podcast, which
is why sometimes it really sucks for me.
Inside of the wide body, jet 411passengers settled into their seats, many
(06:12):
of them vacationers headed for Okinawa'sTropical Beaches, a welcome escape from
Tokyo's Winter Chill okay, let's talkabout our Captain A in the cockpit,
40-year-old Captain Makoto Watanaberan through his pre-flight checklist,
captain Makoto was an experienced pilot.
(06:34):
The kind of aviator who had seen almosteverything in his years of flying.
Little did he know that this day wouldtest his skills like never before.
At 3:36 PM the enormous 7 47 lifted offfrom Anita, it's four powerful engines
propelling the 231 foot long aircraft.
(06:57):
Into the sky for context.
That's about two thirds thelength of a football field.
Meanwhile, another Japan Airlines flightwas making its way toward Tokyo Flight
9 5 8 a three engine McDonald Douglas,DC 10 had departed from South Korea.
(07:19):
And was carrying 237 passengersand 13 crew members at its control
was 45-year-old Captain Taki Awaguiding his aircraft towards Narita
Airport across the sea of Japan.
The flight plans for thesetwo massive aircraft.
(07:41):
Would have them safely passeach other with over 2000
feet of vertical separation.
So that's seven football fieldsstacked end to end, and that is
the standard safe distance requiredfor aircraft at cruising altitudes.
And I imagine it's that.
I mean, there's a huge draftbehind planes just like Yeah.
Interstate cars.
(08:01):
So I'm sure that's thedistance to guarantee.
It's all broken up.
It's still smooth.
Mm-hmm.
Air.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
It also allows, I'm sure for likeif there's some sort of incident,
if there's a sudden drop inelevation for whatever reason,
it's just enough of a barrier that.
You know, some, some shit could kind ofgo wrong and you would still be safe to
have these two aircraft pass each other.
(08:24):
Flight 9 5 8, which is the DC 10 wascruising steadily at 37,000 feet, about
seven miles above the earth's surface.
Flight 9 0 7.
Our Boeing 7 47 was still climbingand had been cleared to reach.
39,000 feet.
(08:46):
That's a pretty high cruising altitude.
What passengers on eitherflight couldn't know.
Was that in a control room inAwa The stage was being set.
For a potential disaster at the TokyoArea Control Center, a 26-year-old
trainee air traffic controller named
hideki Ani.
(09:07):
Sat before a radar screen trekkingnumerous flights simultaneously
like an air traffic choreographer.
His job was to ensure that everyaircraft maintained safe separation
in Japan's very busy skies.
Standing behind him washis supervisor, Ko Mommy,
(09:29):
as an experienced controller
mommy was there to guide haTani through the complex dance
of directing multiple aircraft.
But on this particularafternoon, something would go.
Terribly wrong to understand what happenedNext, we need to talk about an incredibly
important safety system installation oncommercial aircraft, the Traffic collision
(09:53):
avoidance system, also known as TCAS.
Zach, have we talked about TCAS before?
We have.
Okay, wonderful.
Perfect.
I am going to do a brief overview of TCAsfor people that are new to the podcast.
TCAs is a guardian angel.
It constantly monitors theairspace around a plane.
It really is like having a secondset of eyes that can see through
(10:16):
clouds, see through darkness.
It's an automated system thatcommunicates with other nearby
aircraft . It tracks their position,their altitude, their trajectory, and
when it detects another plane gettingtoo close, it springs into action.
So it sounds an alarm if it feels likethere is some sort of traffic coming.
(10:37):
And what makes T TCAs so fascinatingto me and just like the, such a
cool, clever system is that thesystems of the two planes will
actually communicate to each other.
Mm-hmm.
And the TCAs on one plane willtell the pilot to gain altitude and
(11:01):
the TCAs in the other plane willsay, drop altitude or go lower.
And by communicating with each other,if the pilots listen to and follow
the TCAs instructions, it will avoid.
A potential collision, right?
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
What a cool system.
(11:22):
around 3:54 PM about 20 minutesafter flight, 9 0 7 had taken off.
Both aircraft found themselves in thesame area of sky, onboard both planes.
The TCAs alarms suddenly activated.
In the cockpit of flight 9 0 7,the Boeing 7 47, an automated
(11:44):
voice commanded climb, climb.
Meanwhile, in the cockpit offlight 9, 5, 8, the system was
instructing, descend, descend.
If both crews had followed these automatedinstructions, we would not be talking
about this episode on the podcast.
(12:08):
So here we go.
Let's figure out whatwent wrong, shall we?
The systems worked exactly as designed.
It detected a potential problem andit communicated to each plane with
very clear instructions on what theyshould have done to avoid a collision.
However, our trainee controllermade a very critical error.
(12:30):
So remember over in the control tower.
We have a guy, he's a trainee, he's new.
He's being quote unquote supervised,and he says, ah, you are fine.
Just stay there.
No, no, no, no.
Well, let's figure out what he did.
Shall we?
Noticing the potentialconflict on his radar screen.
(12:51):
He intended to instruct flight 9 58, which is the DC 10 to descend.
Instead, he mistakenlyradioed instructions to the
Boeing 7 47 flight 9 0 7.
They needed to climb.
Yes.
So if we recall five secondsago, the Boeing seven 40
(13:14):
sevens, TCAs was telling it.
Climb, climb.
So now they are gettingconflicting instructions.
Mixed signals.
Mixed signals.
Big time.
TCAs says, climb.
And the controller is saying, descend.
So Captain Makoto and his crewfaced an impossible dilemma.
(13:39):
Do you follow the TCAs warningto climb, or do you listen to the
human air traffic controller inyour ear instructing you to descend?
They had seconds to decide.
What would you do, Zach?
Well, even though I already know thatit's the wrong choice, I would probably
(13:59):
follow the human because I would trustthat they're making a choice more than
a computer is recognizing an issue.
Computers break, they freeze.
Mm-hmm.
They gotta be turned off and back on.
Mm-hmm.
So that is.
Exactly what our pilot decided to do.
(14:20):
So following what was standard procedureat this time, captain Makoto chose to
follow the human controllers instructions.
He disengaged the autopilotand he began to descend his
aircraft, putting both planes on acollision course as flight 9 5 8.
(14:44):
Was also descending followingits TCAs instructions.
So only one of the planesgot called into by the human.
Correct.
Okay.
And the human thought he wastalking to the other, yeah.
Plane.
So now instead of them beingon different trajectories.
(15:07):
We have now taken both of themand sent them the same thing
and just lower them both.
Yes mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Back in the control center, Taninoticed something was wrong.
The DC 10 wasn't at the position heexpected trying to correct his mistake.
(15:29):
He instructed flight 9, 5, 8.
To turn right, but in the chaosof the moment, this message
never got through to the DC 10.
Pilots sensing the emergency unfoldingsupervisor Momi stepped in, but
under tremendous pressure, she madeanother critical error instructing a
(15:51):
non-existent flight, 9 5 7 to climb.
She had meant to tell flight 90 7 to climb less than ideal.
It's not great by now.
The two massive aircraft.
We're hurdling towards each other at acombined speed of over 1000 miles per
(16:13):
hour with confusion raining in bothcockpits and in the control center.
The only thing standing betweenthese aircraft and catastrophe
was the pilot's ability to spotthe danger with their own eyes.
We'd be screwed if youwere flying these planes.
You're blind as a bat.
But I always have my contacts in.
(16:34):
I always got your contacts in.
Imagine you're Captain Makoto inthe cockpit of the Boeing 7 47.
You are descending through 37,000 feet.
When suddenly through thewindshield, you spot another
massive aircraft, a DC 10, which is.
on what appears to be acollision course with your plane.
(16:58):
In this moment, years of training andcountless flight hours crystallized
into a single decision that willdetermine the fate of nearly 700 live.
Captain Makoto later described thatheart stopping moment to investigators.
I saw the other aircraft appearto pass right to left at about eye
(17:19):
level while we were maneuveringto pass just below the DC 10.
It appeared to fill theforward right window.
that's coming up.
That's like, it's there.
It's pretty close.
Yeah, it's right there.
With no time for radio communicationand knowing his enormous aircraft
was already descending Makotomade a split second decision.
(17:42):
He pitched the seven 40sevens nose down even further.
A counterintuitive movethat risked causing severe
turbulence inside the cabin.
But it might prevent acatastrophic collision.
Yeah.
Why didn't he pull up?
Because he was already pointing down.
(18:03):
And it's much easier to keep it goingthat way when it's that big of a plane.
It takes time for it to level outand then be on an upward trajectory.
Yes.
And do you remember what happened in theepisode from last week when the captains
pulled up really, really aggressivelyand tried to pitch the plane straight up.
Oh, over, correct.
Oh, where it stalls out.
It stalled.
(18:24):
It stalled.
And that is exactly why he did notchoose to climb, because the angle that
he would've had to climb at in order toguarantee that they missed each other.
Likely would've ended upstalling the aircraft entirely.
so he had a split seconddecision to make this.
(18:47):
He decided to go down, down.
We're going down, down baby, and.
The reason was primarily becausehe was very concerned about the
aircraft stalling, and that would'vecreated another deadly situation.
Let's hop into the other plane.
So meanwhile, in the cockpit offlight 9, 5, 8, captain Awa was
(19:12):
witnessing the same terrifyingscenario from the opposite perspective.
So he was seeing a massive 7 47.
Heading directly towards him.
He pulled back on his controlcolumn pitching the DC 10 upward.
How lucky are they?
(19:33):
He had 50 50 shot and uh, he madethe choice and he went with it.
Holy cannoli folks That is somelucky weird intuition that those
pilots shared in that moment.
So he pitched the DC 10 upward in adesperate attempt to gain altitude.
The two aircraft passed with anapproximately 443 feet of each other.
(19:59):
Although some reports suggest thatthey may have been as close as 33 feet.
How do we get such avarying difference in there
reports.
So honestly, you know, theyare gaining this information
based on elevation detail.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Flight tracking.
They've, they're pulling all of thedata that they can, and honestly, it
just depended on the source that Ipulled . Some of them said it was 33 feet.
Some of them said it was around 400 feet.
So, okay.
It just depends.
Either way, I certainly don't wanna be400 feet from another jumbo jet when
(20:42):
I'm flying, going 500 miles an hour.
Yes, absolutely not.
That is too close.
When we think that the safedistance is 2000 feet, 2000 feet.
So to put this into perspective, at theircruising speeds, this distance would've
been covered in less than half a second.
(21:02):
The entire evasive maneuver lastedmaybe two seconds from start to finish.
So they had two seconds to register.
Oh, shit, there's a plane coming at me.
I need to do something.
And execute the maneuver.
Two seconds, Two secondsis not a lot of time.
(21:23):
That's not to make thatlife or death decision.
One passenger later told Japanese media,I have never seen a plane fly so close.
I thought we were going to crash.
Yes, you were going to crash.
You were.
However, the pilot's quick reactionshad averted what would've been
one of the deadliest aviationdisasters in history, period.
(21:45):
But for the passengers and crewaboard flight 9 0 7, the danger
actually wasn't over quite yet.
Inside the cabin of flight 9 0 7, ascene of chaos erupted when Captain
Makoto executed his emergencydescent maneuver, the Boeing 7 47 was
(22:07):
halfway through its drink service.
Hmm.
Flight attendants were pushing beveragecarts down the aisles, pouring hot drinks.
I've always wondered whatthose beverage carts weigh.
I feel like it has to be a lot.
You have to picture their carrying.
You know, somewhere aroundlike a hundred cans of soda
(22:28):
plus some water, plus some tea.
Oh yeah.
And that's why, um, if youever go back into like the.
The flight attendant area of plane, ifyou're like waiting to go to the bathroom
or whatever, you can see, they push theminto these very secure locking cubbies.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in case there's turbulence orsituations, like you can't just have those
(22:48):
beverage carts floating around back there.
It's, well, I saw the,the locking mechanisms.
I, for whatever reason, paidattention to it on our St.
Martin trip.
Oh yeah.
And watching them push it past meand then lock it for the next seat.
Yep.
They don't take any risks on those.
Mm-hmm.
No, no, no.
Okay.
We've got hot drinks being poured.
(23:08):
I'm one of those people.
I love a good hot drink on anairplane, which is so bad because I
researched these stories, like I knowhow bad she can get, but that's fine.
I immediately pouredinto a, thermos with lid.
So safety first.
The physical forces at work duringthis maneuver are crucial to
understand what happened next.
(23:31):
So in a normal level flight, weexperience what's called one G.
You get one G.
It's the natural force of gravity, right?
It keeps us in our seats.
It allows us to walkup and down the aisle.
The normal things that,that make gravity work.
However, in a sudden steep descent, theaircraft can experience what pilots call
(23:55):
negative G oh for where you start floatingup and where objects and people will
float instead of staying pressed down.
Feeling, feeling of turbulence when theplane suddenly drops like the 20 feet
that it does and your stomach feels likeit jumps up into your throat on steroids.
(24:16):
Yeah.
'cause not only does your stomachfeel like it jumps into your throat,
your entire body is floating.
Yes.
All of you.
I think there are those adventureflights that you can do where you
actually go and like experience.
Zero Gs.
Have you ever heard of that?
Where they take you into a planeand then you get to like go and do
like a whoa, and I'm pretty surethis is kind of how they do it.
(24:37):
They take you like way, way up highand then all of a sudden the plane just
goes into like a sudden drop basically.
Hmm.
Don't quote me on that folks, butI would actually love to do that.
It's on my bucket list todo one of those flights.
I think that's what theydo in the Big Bang Theory.
So the moment that Captain Makotopitched the aircraft's nose down,
(24:59):
everyone and everything unsecuredin the cabin was immediately
thrown upward toward the ceiling.
Mm-hmm.
This is why it is so critical that evenwhen the fastened seatbelt sign is off,
you wear your seatbelt you wear if youare not walking to go to the potty.
You have your seatbelt on becauseshit like this does happen.
(25:24):
It's real.
The people that are chilling intheir seats without seat belts on
have never listened to our podcast.
Two large beverage carts,each weighing 112 pounds.
All right?
Yeah.
So that's about the weight ofa full size great Dane dog.
So the weight of a real heavy dumbbell,
(25:45):
it's the weight of me.
Okay?
It's valid.
Were flung upward andslammed into the ceiling.
With such force that they dislodgedpanels, one cart became wedged
in the overhead compartments.
While another struck a passenger,Zach, she was probably 85.
(26:09):
Don't stop.
That's like horrible.
That's horrible.
Flight attendants in the middleof service had no time to secure
themselves obviously, because onemoment the plane's completely fine.
The next, there is no gravity.
Yeah, there's no time to call that in.
No.
The flight attendants,please take your jump seats.
No, they had two seconds, right?
If that.
If that they were thrown into theceiling along with laptops, books,
(26:34):
bags, all of the crap that peoplehave when they're on an airplane.
Brutal.
Anything not strapped down.
Hit the ceiling.
Hot coffee.
Hot tea spilled across the cabin.
It is scalding passengers.
The human toll of this wasactually quite significant.
(26:54):
A 54-year-old woman broke her legwhen she was thrown from her seat.
One boy was hurled acrossfour rows of seats.
In total, 100 passengersreported injuries.
Nine of them were deemed serious,including the poor flight attendants,
(27:15):
the two flight attendants who hadbeen performing the drink service.
However, despite their own injuries,the cabin crew, started doing emergency
protocol, because they're bad asses.
Flight attendants are fricking awesome.
They just got thrown from their seats.
Everything is going crazy and they'relike, Hmm, this seems like an emergency.
I'm gonna put on my, Igotta go help these people.
(27:36):
I gotta go help these people.
Once the aircraft did stabilize,they immediately began attending
to the injured passengers.
They applied first aid andthey really tried to restore
calm to the terrified cabin.
I can't even imagine the absoluteterror of those freaking people.
(27:57):
Yeah.
You get close enough tohear another Jess engines.
I'm freaking out myself.
it's one thing when you're quoteunquote crazy turbulence and
people around you are like, what?
And they get all nervous and they grab theseat and they start panicking and stuff.
This was a nose dive.
Mm-hmm.
So steep that the cabin lost gravity.
(28:21):
It's pretty wild.
So meanwhile, the top toour other plane, right?
The, uh, the DC 10 now where theBoeing 7 47 dove, they chose to climb.
Thank God they, they did that.
Just the lucky, perfect call.
Yes.
In this plane, there were no injuries.
Oh, good.
Passengers did know thatsomething had happened.
(28:44):
they knew that some sort ofemergency maneuver was executed.
Yes.
Still a hard climb.
Yes.
But it was the opposite direction thatheld you in your seat rather than Correct.
Yes.
It added Gs instead of removing the Gs.
Mm-hmm.
So they certainly knew, they wereaware, but they were not injured.
So that is a good news.
(29:06):
After the near Miss, captain Makotoimmediately turned his damaged 7 47
back toward Anita Airport, making anemergency landing at 4:44 PM which
is about an hour after the incidentflight 9 5 8 continued to Norta
Airport and landed normally at 4:32 PM.
(29:30):
So they didn't have any injuries,and I guess they were like,
okay, well, we're, mm-hmm.
We're just better.
Finish this one.
We're just gonna, we isgonna do it by evening.
Eight passengers from flight 9 07 remained hospitalized with 22
injured passengers having beenreleased after their treatment.
Hospitals around Tokyo were treatingvarious injuries from broken bones to
(29:53):
burns from the spilled hot beverages.
I think about this all the time.
It's why I am very particular abouthaving my tea in a lockable, thermos.
I never have an open container of tea if Iam in a car, a plane, anything like that.
So Japan Airlines did respondquickly dispatching representatives
(30:17):
to hospitals and sending apologyletters to all passengers on the 7 47.
Thankfully, all of the injuredpassengers eventually recovered fully.
However, the repercussions of thosefew terrifying seconds in the sky
over Japan were just beginning.
The investigation into the incidentbegan immediately with Japanese
(30:40):
authorities analyzing flight data,cockpit voice recordings, and air
traffic control communications.
Their findings published in July,2002 revealed the central issue that
had put nearly 700 lives at risk.
Confusion over whether the pilotsshould prioritize TCAs instructions
(31:02):
or air traffic control commands.
Mm-hmm.
When the two conflicted, atthe time, there was no clear
international standard on whichinstructions pilots should follow.
In a scenario like this,captain Makoto had followed what
was then standard procedure.
Which is to prioritize human controllerinstructions over something that is
(31:26):
automated based on their findings.
Investigators actually made a crucialrecommendation to the International
Civil Aviation Organization, whichis the United Nations Agency that
coordinates aviation's standardsworldwide, and they really recommended
that there was a clear guidance.
(31:46):
That TCAs should always takeprecedent over air traffic control
instructions in situations like this.
Trust the robots, I guess.
But honestly, in this scenario,it really makes sense.
I don't disagree.
I mean, it was thet cast notes.
Yeah.
(32:07):
Yes.
Yeah, it's designed to do onething and then on the other
hand, you have a, mm-hmm.
A rookie person that is tryingto keep things organized.
I mean, it's just human, human error.
It's human error is a thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
This recommendation took on even greaterurgency when, just months later in
(32:27):
July, 2002 another incident would takeplace that was very similar to this.
And I'm not gonna give toomany details away because it
is, we're gonna cover, right?
We're gonna cover, yeah,it's already written.
This episode is already writtenand, it's a horrible story.
I haven't told it to you because Icried writing it and I need to work
up the courage to tell it to you.
(32:48):
Okay.
So the important thing to know isthat two similar incidents happen
in very, very close succession.
You said it was 2001 to 2002.
Yes.
So the incident that we'retalking about happened in 2001.
Mm-hmm.
And then in 2002, another,there's another, yeah.
(33:08):
Yes.
It, even though that one wasactually not a close call, that one
was a really devastating incident.
Okay.
Or so we'll find out.
Yeah.
In one of our episodes, you guys willfind out it's gonna be a rough one.
Following these two incidents,the International Civil Aviation
Organization amended its regulations,so the new rule made it clear.
(33:31):
Pilots must follow TCAs even ifthey do conflict with air traffic
control instructions today, thisprotocol is really standard worldwide.
When pilots receive a TCAs warning,they follow that first, then inform
air traffic control that they'reresponding to A-T-C-A-S advisory.
This clear hierarchy of commentshas undoubtedly prevented
(33:56):
similar incidents from happening.
Mm-hmm.
But the fallout from theJapan Airlines incident.
Didn't just end with regulatorychanges in an unprecedented move.
Japanese authorities brought criminalcharges against the air traffic
controllers involved in the incident.
Oh, that's a rough first day on the job.
(34:18):
I hate that too.
But you know, a Yeah, butlike people almost died.
A whole bunch of 'em almost.
And if the pi, well, if the pilots.
We're not amazing in paying attentionand weirdly mentally synced up.
Shit would've hit the fan.
Yeah, it would've been very bad.
So, or the turbine Zachary.
(34:40):
In March, 2004, prosecutors formallyindicted both trainee controller
and the supervisor charging themwith professional negligence.
So the trainee controller, Taniand the supervisor OMI charging
them with the negligence.
(35:01):
So that's going on your permanent record?
Yeah.
Their case went to trial later thatyear with prosecutors eventually
seeking 10 year and 15 yearprison sentences respectively.
Wow.
Extraordinarily severe penalties.
Yeah.
For an incident of this, youknow, nature, which while serious
(35:23):
did not actually kill anyone.
Yeah.
No one died from this.
So 15 years in prison.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
I don't think that punishmentfits the crime, but that's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's pretty wild.
The controller's case dragged throughthe Japanese legal systems for nearly
a decade with initial acquittals,followed by appeals convictions,
(35:46):
and counter appeals in October,2010, which is almost a decade.
Mm-hmm.
After this happened, JapanSupreme Court upheld guilty
verdicts against both controllers.
Sentencing them to suspended prison terms.
Japan doesn't fuck around.
They take their prison seriously.
(36:07):
They really do.
Yeah.
Like they, they actually do thecriminal prosecution of air traffic
controllers was highly controversialwithin the aviation community.
Many experts argued that criminalizingerrors in high stress environments
would discourage reporting andtransparency, which are essential
(36:28):
elements of aviation's safety.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Agree.
Yeah, it's a choice.
The near collision of JapanAirlines, flight 9 0 7 and 9 58
represents one of the closestcalls in modern aviation history.
If not for the quick reactionsof the pilots and some extreme
luck, it would've been one of thedeadliest air disasters of all time.
(36:52):
Yeah.
Period.
Because that makes it,what about 700 people?
Is that Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Hmm.
What makes this case so fascinatingis how it illuminates the complex
relationship between human.
And technology in the modern world.
The TCAs system was right andhad both aircraft followed the
automated instructions, theywould've maintained safe separation.
(37:17):
Mm-hmm.
But the human tendency to trusthumans over machines led to
a really dangerous situation.
The incident changed aviationforever by really establishing a
clear hierarchy in these situations.
and the change of using TCAs, itreflects a subtle but significant
(37:39):
shift in how we balance humanjudgment over technology safeguards.
So those lessons from thisincident remain relevant today.
As recently as 2023, there wereover 20 serious close calls
reported in US airspace alone.
(37:59):
Wow.
With investigations revealing thatover 75% of air traffic control
facilities were understaffed.
That's one of the big jobsthat you'll get that, yeah.
That freaks me out morethan anything else.
Honestly, when I'm flying isthinking about how short staffed
they're, yes, they are stressed.
There are reports of rampant alcoholismhappening in air traffic control, cocaine.
(38:24):
It's like really pretty insane.
We'll do an episode actually onthe dark side of, of air traffic
control as a career because it's,yeah, it's the number one suicide
job in the world, I believe it is.
It's pretty insane the challenges ofmanaging our increasingly crowded skies.
Continues to evolve and the role of anair traffic control, employee critical.
(38:49):
Yeah.
One of the most high stakes,but important jobs in the world.
Okay.
So if there's one lesson that we cantake away from this incident, Zach.
It is that you should keep your seatbeltfastened at all times on an airplane.
Unless you are getting up to go potty,please wear your freaking seatbelts,
(39:09):
if not for you, for the person whoselap you're going to land into when
your aircraft goes into negative Gs.
They're not gonna like that either.
No, they'll be less than thrilled.
The negative Gs are temporary folks.
Ah, brutal.
All right, Zach, that.
Is our story for today.
All right, well that isone that I don't know.
(39:33):
I'm just picturing feelingthe negative Gs myself.
I feel like it would be fun.
And then picture hot coffeesplashed in your face.
Well guys, quit drinking coffee.
It's silly.
Grab a Red Bull.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Full Red Bull can to theface would also be not fun.
All right.
It gives you wings.
You could fly yourself at that point.
(39:53):
Oh my gosh.
All right, folks, if you enjoyedthis episode, please rate, review and
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also follow us on social media atFinal Board and Call POD for behind the
scenes content update on future episodes.
And we also have a Facebook discussiongroup that's really fun as well.
(40:13):
Join us next time.
When we'll be exploring anothertransportation disaster that
changed safety standards forever.
Until then, remember to stow your traytables, fasten your seat belts, and
prepare for the unexpected, because notevery trip reaches its final destination.
(40:36):
Goodbye.
Picture this, you're sitting ona jumbo jet at cruising altitude.
The seatbelt sign was just turned off.
The flight attendants begin theirdrink service, pushing the beverage
carts down the narrow aisles.
You're settling in.
Maybe you're looking out thewindow at the clouds below.
(00:22):
When suddenly, without warning, yourstomach lurches into your throat.
Your body floats upwardweightless for a split second.
Hot coffee splashes across the cabin.
The flight attendant who wasjust pouring your drink is now
suspended in mid air and through thewindow, another massive aircraft.
(00:46):
Passes by close enough for you to justmake out the individual windows of its
fuselage in an instant hundreds of lives.
Hang in the balance as two aircrafteach weighing hundreds of tons
and traveling 500 miles per hour.
(01:09):
Nearly collide the margin for erroris measured not in minutes or even
seconds, but in fractions of asecond and mere feet of airspace.
So stow your tray tables, fasten yourseat belts, and prepare for turbulence
(01:30):
because this is final boarding call.
Hello and welcome to Final Boarding Call.
I am your disaster obsessed host, Alice.
And as always, I am joined by myreluctant homebody husband, Zach.
It's me.
Mr.
Reluctant.
(01:51):
Mr.
Reluctant on the mic.
All right.
Zach, do you have anywords for the people?
Hello?
Mm.
I'm going to apologizeagain for my scratchy voice.
Unfortunately my voice is notcoming back quite at the rate
that I was really hoping or ever.
Yeah.
Zach has a theory that it will neverreturn, and that's absolutely terrifying.
(02:13):
It will get better, I promise.
But, please tough out one moreepisode with my, uh, I think the
podcast term for, this is vocal fry.
You know, like, oh, vocal fry.
Before we dive in, a quickreminder to our listeners.
Please rate, review, subscribewherever you get your podcasts.
(02:34):
We are gonna give out stickers forpeople that are rating and reviewing.
You know, hopefully you rate high.
I don't know.
Zach, do we still give a stickerto somebody who gives us two stars?
I'll send you some kind of sticker.
We'll, you'll receive somethingin the mail we promised that.
Wait for my owl.
Oh my gosh.
(02:55):
Okay.
So this episode is.
An interesting one because itwasn't covered by like, my major
sources that I usually use.
Because like I said, when wecovered the episode about St.
Martin, not every episode that Iwanna do is some super dramatic,
catastrophic, this, that, or the other.
(03:15):
Or famous.
Or famous.
This episode.
Is something that was terrifyingfor the people that were on board of
these aircraft, but it really wasn'tcovered very heavily in the media.
So if you are a true undercover aviationnerd, this is gonna be a fun one to
pull out at parties because you know,everybody really has heard of Tene.
(03:37):
Not everybody has heard of.
The near miss of Japan Airlines,flight 9 0 7 and 9 58, and
that's what we're covering today.
My sources are simplifying.com.
They did a really great, anniversaryarticle actually about this
case as, as well as Wikipedia.
All right, here we go.
(03:58):
January 31st, 2001, justthree days after my birthday.
Yes, Zach was not born in 2001,but my birthday the 25th, her
birthday, not my day of birth.
My birthday.
That is so true.
It began as any other winter day in Tokyo.
At Aida Airport japanAirlines Flight 9 0 7.
(04:22):
A massive Boeing 7 47 400 dwas preparing for its routine,
two hour journey to Okinawa.
Naza, we've talked aboutthe Boeing 7 47 before.
She a big girl, right?
She is big with three Cs.
The economy seats are 10 across.
(04:44):
It is three.
Four seats in the middle, andthen another row of three.
So it's a 3, 4, 3 configuration.
So that's huge.
So this is a routine two hour journey.
It's going to ok.
Okana, Okinawa.
Okinawa.
Don't you dare Zachary.
I'm doing the best that I can.
(05:04):
This is one of the most famous.
Or most well known placesin Japan that everybody has
heard the name million times.
Well, guess what?
Ask me questions about Chan bud.
Been there, done that?
Been to Ro.
Surprised there.
Surprised that you didn'tsay Tokyo like 37 times.
It is Tokyo.
(05:25):
Tokyo.
Tokyo.
I'm gonna beat you up.
Tokyo.
Tokyo.
Our first merch is just going tobe like 19 wrong pronunciations
on a shirt of like, like a city,and it'll just be crossed out.
I would be a funny shirt.
I'd be freaking hilarious,and that is my life.
(05:48):
I'm sure we're gonna have somevery fun pronunciation of pilot
names in here, because you gottathink when I'm researching this,
I'm not saying it out loud.
So the first time that I say these namesout loud is to you on the podcast, which
is why sometimes it really sucks for me.
Inside of the wide body, jet 411passengers settled into their seats, many
(06:12):
of them vacationers headed for Okinawa'sTropical Beaches, a welcome escape from
Tokyo's Winter Chill okay, let's talkabout our Captain A in the cockpit,
40-year-old Captain Makoto Watanaberan through his pre-flight checklist,
captain Makoto was an experienced pilot.
(06:34):
The kind of aviator who had seen almosteverything in his years of flying.
Little did he know that this day wouldtest his skills like never before.
At 3:36 PM the enormous 7 47 lifted offfrom Anita, it's four powerful engines
propelling the 231 foot long aircraft.
(06:57):
Into the sky for context.
That's about two thirds thelength of a football field.
Meanwhile, another Japan Airlines flightwas making its way toward Tokyo Flight
9 5 8 a three engine McDonald Douglas,DC 10 had departed from South Korea.
(07:19):
And was carrying 237 passengersand 13 crew members at its control
was 45-year-old Captain Taki Awaguiding his aircraft towards Narita
Airport across the sea of Japan.
The flight plans for thesetwo massive aircraft.
(07:41):
Would have them safely passeach other with over 2000
feet of vertical separation.
So that's seven football fieldsstacked end to end, and that is
the standard safe distance requiredfor aircraft at cruising altitudes.
And I imagine it's that.
I mean, there's a huge draftbehind planes just like Yeah.
Interstate cars.
(08:01):
So I'm sure that's thedistance to guarantee.
It's all broken up.
It's still smooth.
Mm-hmm.
Air.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
It also allows, I'm sure for likeif there's some sort of incident,
if there's a sudden drop inelevation for whatever reason,
it's just enough of a barrier that.
You know, some, some shit could kind ofgo wrong and you would still be safe to
have these two aircraft pass each other.
(08:24):
Flight 9 5 8, which is the DC 10 wascruising steadily at 37,000 feet, about
seven miles above the earth's surface.
Flight 9 0 7.
Our Boeing 7 47 was still climbingand had been cleared to reach.
39,000 feet.
(08:46):
That's a pretty high cruising altitude.
What passengers on eitherflight couldn't know.
Was that in a control room inAwa The stage was being set.
For a potential disaster at the TokyoArea Control Center, a 26-year-old
trainee air traffic controller named
hideki Ani.
(09:07):
Sat before a radar screen trekkingnumerous flights simultaneously
like an air traffic choreographer.
His job was to ensure that everyaircraft maintained safe separation
in Japan's very busy skies.
Standing behind him washis supervisor, Ko Mommy,
(09:29):
as an experienced controller
mommy was there to guide haTani through the complex dance
of directing multiple aircraft.
But on this particularafternoon, something would go.
Terribly wrong to understand what happenedNext, we need to talk about an incredibly
important safety system installation oncommercial aircraft, the Traffic collision
(09:53):
avoidance system, also known as TCAS.
Zach, have we talked about TCAS before?
We have.
Okay, wonderful.
Perfect.
I am going to do a brief overview of TCAsfor people that are new to the podcast.
TCAs is a guardian angel.
It constantly monitors theairspace around a plane.
It really is like having a secondset of eyes that can see through
(10:16):
clouds, see through darkness.
It's an automated system thatcommunicates with other nearby
aircraft . It tracks their position,their altitude, their trajectory, and
when it detects another plane gettingtoo close, it springs into action.
So it sounds an alarm if it feels likethere is some sort of traffic coming.
(10:37):
And what makes T TCAs so fascinatingto me and just like the, such a
cool, clever system is that thesystems of the two planes will
actually communicate to each other.
Mm-hmm.
And the TCAs on one plane willtell the pilot to gain altitude and
(11:01):
the TCAs in the other plane willsay, drop altitude or go lower.
And by communicating with each other,if the pilots listen to and follow
the TCAs instructions, it will avoid.
A potential collision, right?
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
What a cool system.
(11:22):
around 3:54 PM about 20 minutesafter flight, 9 0 7 had taken off.
Both aircraft found themselves in thesame area of sky, onboard both planes.
The TCAs alarms suddenly activated.
In the cockpit of flight 9 0 7,the Boeing 7 47, an automated
(11:44):
voice commanded climb, climb.
Meanwhile, in the cockpit offlight 9, 5, 8, the system was
instructing, descend, descend.
If both crews had followed these automatedinstructions, we would not be talking
about this episode on the podcast.
(12:08):
So here we go.
Let's figure out whatwent wrong, shall we?
The systems worked exactly as designed.
It detected a potential problem andit communicated to each plane with
very clear instructions on what theyshould have done to avoid a collision.
However, our trainee controllermade a very critical error.
(12:30):
So remember over in the control tower.
We have a guy, he's a trainee, he's new.
He's being quote unquote supervised,and he says, ah, you are fine.
Just stay there.
No, no, no, no.
Well, let's figure out what he did.
Shall we?
Noticing the potentialconflict on his radar screen.
(12:51):
He intended to instruct flight 9 58, which is the DC 10 to descend.
Instead, he mistakenlyradioed instructions to the
Boeing 7 47 flight 9 0 7.
They needed to climb.
Yes.
So if we recall five secondsago, the Boeing seven 40
(13:14):
sevens, TCAs was telling it.
Climb, climb.
So now they are gettingconflicting instructions.
Mixed signals.
Mixed signals.
Big time.
TCAs says, climb.
And the controller is saying, descend.
So Captain Makoto and his crewfaced an impossible dilemma.
(13:39):
Do you follow the TCAs warningto climb, or do you listen to the
human air traffic controller inyour ear instructing you to descend?
They had seconds to decide.
What would you do, Zach?
Well, even though I already know thatit's the wrong choice, I would probably
(13:59):
follow the human because I would trustthat they're making a choice more than
a computer is recognizing an issue.
Computers break, they freeze.
Mm-hmm.
They gotta be turned off and back on.
Mm-hmm.
So that is.
Exactly what our pilot decided to do.
(14:20):
So following what was standard procedureat this time, captain Makoto chose to
follow the human controllers instructions.
He disengaged the autopilotand he began to descend his
aircraft, putting both planes on acollision course as flight 9 5 8.
(14:44):
Was also descending followingits TCAs instructions.
So only one of the planesgot called into by the human.
Correct.
Okay.
And the human thought he wastalking to the other, yeah.
Plane.
So now instead of them beingon different trajectories.
(15:07):
We have now taken both of themand sent them the same thing
and just lower them both.
Yes mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Back in the control center, Taninoticed something was wrong.
The DC 10 wasn't at the position heexpected trying to correct his mistake.
(15:29):
He instructed flight 9, 5, 8.
To turn right, but in the chaosof the moment, this message
never got through to the DC 10.
Pilots sensing the emergency unfoldingsupervisor Momi stepped in, but
under tremendous pressure, she madeanother critical error instructing a
(15:51):
non-existent flight, 9 5 7 to climb.
She had meant to tell flight 90 7 to climb less than ideal.
It's not great by now.
The two massive aircraft.
We're hurdling towards each other at acombined speed of over 1000 miles per
(16:13):
hour with confusion raining in bothcockpits and in the control center.
The only thing standing betweenthese aircraft and catastrophe
was the pilot's ability to spotthe danger with their own eyes.
We'd be screwed if youwere flying these planes.
You're blind as a bat.
But I always have my contacts in.
(16:34):
I always got your contacts in.
Imagine you're Captain Makoto inthe cockpit of the Boeing 7 47.
You are descending through 37,000 feet.
When suddenly through thewindshield, you spot another
massive aircraft, a DC 10, which is.
on what appears to be acollision course with your plane.
(16:58):
In this moment, years of training andcountless flight hours crystallized
into a single decision that willdetermine the fate of nearly 700 live.
Captain Makoto later described thatheart stopping moment to investigators.
I saw the other aircraft appearto pass right to left at about eye
(17:19):
level while we were maneuveringto pass just below the DC 10.
It appeared to fill theforward right window.
that's coming up.
That's like, it's there.
It's pretty close.
Yeah, it's right there.
With no time for radio communicationand knowing his enormous aircraft
was already descending Makotomade a split second decision.
(17:42):
He pitched the seven 40sevens nose down even further.
A counterintuitive movethat risked causing severe
turbulence inside the cabin.
But it might prevent acatastrophic collision.
Yeah.
Why didn't he pull up?
Because he was already pointing down.
(18:03):
And it's much easier to keep it goingthat way when it's that big of a plane.
It takes time for it to level outand then be on an upward trajectory.
Yes.
And do you remember what happened in theepisode from last week when the captains
pulled up really, really aggressivelyand tried to pitch the plane straight up.
Oh, over, correct.
Oh, where it stalls out.
It stalled.
(18:24):
It stalled.
And that is exactly why he did notchoose to climb, because the angle that
he would've had to climb at in order toguarantee that they missed each other.
Likely would've ended upstalling the aircraft entirely.
so he had a split seconddecision to make this.
(18:47):
He decided to go down, down.
We're going down, down baby, and.
The reason was primarily becausehe was very concerned about the
aircraft stalling, and that would'vecreated another deadly situation.
Let's hop into the other plane.
So meanwhile, in the cockpit offlight 9, 5, 8, captain Awa was
(19:12):
witnessing the same terrifyingscenario from the opposite perspective.
So he was seeing a massive 7 47.
Heading directly towards him.
He pulled back on his controlcolumn pitching the DC 10 upward.
How lucky are they?
(19:33):
He had 50 50 shot and uh, he madethe choice and he went with it.
Holy cannoli folks That is somelucky weird intuition that those
pilots shared in that moment.
So he pitched the DC 10 upward in adesperate attempt to gain altitude.
The two aircraft passed with anapproximately 443 feet of each other.
(19:59):
Although some reports suggest thatthey may have been as close as 33 feet.
How do we get such avarying difference in there
reports.
So honestly, you know, theyare gaining this information
based on elevation detail.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Flight tracking.
They've, they're pulling all of thedata that they can, and honestly, it
just depended on the source that Ipulled . Some of them said it was 33 feet.
Some of them said it was around 400 feet.
So, okay.
It just depends.
Either way, I certainly don't wanna be400 feet from another jumbo jet when
(20:42):
I'm flying, going 500 miles an hour.
Yes, absolutely not.
That is too close.
When we think that the safedistance is 2000 feet, 2000 feet.
So to put this into perspective, at theircruising speeds, this distance would've
been covered in less than half a second.
(21:02):
The entire evasive maneuver lastedmaybe two seconds from start to finish.
So they had two seconds to register.
Oh, shit, there's a plane coming at me.
I need to do something.
And execute the maneuver.
Two seconds, Two secondsis not a lot of time.
(21:23):
That's not to make thatlife or death decision.
One passenger later told Japanese media,I have never seen a plane fly so close.
I thought we were going to crash.
Yes, you were going to crash.
You were.
However, the pilot's quick reactionshad averted what would've been
one of the deadliest aviationdisasters in history, period.
(21:45):
But for the passengers and crewaboard flight 9 0 7, the danger
actually wasn't over quite yet.
Inside the cabin of flight 9 0 7, ascene of chaos erupted when Captain
Makoto executed his emergencydescent maneuver, the Boeing 7 47 was
(22:07):
halfway through its drink service.
Hmm.
Flight attendants were pushing beveragecarts down the aisles, pouring hot drinks.
I've always wondered whatthose beverage carts weigh.
I feel like it has to be a lot.
You have to picture their carrying.
You know, somewhere aroundlike a hundred cans of soda
(22:28):
plus some water, plus some tea.
Oh yeah.
And that's why, um, if youever go back into like the.
The flight attendant area of plane, ifyou're like waiting to go to the bathroom
or whatever, you can see, they push theminto these very secure locking cubbies.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in case there's turbulence orsituations, like you can't just have those
(22:48):
beverage carts floating around back there.
It's, well, I saw the,the locking mechanisms.
I, for whatever reason, paidattention to it on our St.
Martin trip.
Oh yeah.
And watching them push it past meand then lock it for the next seat.
Yep.
They don't take any risks on those.
Mm-hmm.
No, no, no.
Okay.
We've got hot drinks being poured.
(23:08):
I'm one of those people.
I love a good hot drink on anairplane, which is so bad because I
researched these stories, like I knowhow bad she can get, but that's fine.
I immediately pouredinto a, thermos with lid.
So safety first.
The physical forces at work duringthis maneuver are crucial to
understand what happened next.
(23:31):
So in a normal level flight, weexperience what's called one G.
You get one G.
It's the natural force of gravity, right?
It keeps us in our seats.
It allows us to walkup and down the aisle.
The normal things that,that make gravity work.
However, in a sudden steep descent, theaircraft can experience what pilots call
(23:55):
negative G oh for where you start floatingup and where objects and people will
float instead of staying pressed down.
Feeling, feeling of turbulence when theplane suddenly drops like the 20 feet
that it does and your stomach feels likeit jumps up into your throat on steroids.
(24:16):
Yeah.
'cause not only does your stomachfeel like it jumps into your throat,
your entire body is floating.
Yes.
All of you.
I think there are those adventureflights that you can do where you
actually go and like experience.
Zero Gs.
Have you ever heard of that?
Where they take you into a planeand then you get to like go and do
like a whoa, and I'm pretty surethis is kind of how they do it.
(24:37):
They take you like way, way up highand then all of a sudden the plane just
goes into like a sudden drop basically.
Hmm.
Don't quote me on that folks, butI would actually love to do that.
It's on my bucket list todo one of those flights.
I think that's what theydo in the Big Bang Theory.
So the moment that Captain Makotopitched the aircraft's nose down,
(24:59):
everyone and everything unsecuredin the cabin was immediately
thrown upward toward the ceiling.
Mm-hmm.
This is why it is so critical that evenwhen the fastened seatbelt sign is off,
you wear your seatbelt you wear if youare not walking to go to the potty.
You have your seatbelt on becauseshit like this does happen.
(25:24):
It's real.
The people that are chilling intheir seats without seat belts on
have never listened to our podcast.
Two large beverage carts,each weighing 112 pounds.
All right?
Yeah.
So that's about the weight ofa full size great Dane dog.
So the weight of a real heavy dumbbell,
(25:45):
it's the weight of me.
Okay?
It's valid.
Were flung upward andslammed into the ceiling.
With such force that they dislodgedpanels, one cart became wedged
in the overhead compartments.
While another struck a passenger,Zach, she was probably 85.
(26:09):
Don't stop.
That's like horrible.
That's horrible.
Flight attendants in the middleof service had no time to secure
themselves obviously, because onemoment the plane's completely fine.
The next, there is no gravity.
Yeah, there's no time to call that in.
No.
The flight attendants,please take your jump seats.
No, they had two seconds, right?
If that.
If that they were thrown into theceiling along with laptops, books,
(26:34):
bags, all of the crap that peoplehave when they're on an airplane.
Brutal.
Anything not strapped down.
Hit the ceiling.
Hot coffee.
Hot tea spilled across the cabin.
It is scalding passengers.
The human toll of this wasactually quite significant.
(26:54):
A 54-year-old woman broke her legwhen she was thrown from her seat.
One boy was hurled acrossfour rows of seats.
In total, 100 passengersreported injuries.
Nine of them were deemed serious,including the poor flight attendants,
(27:15):
the two flight attendants who hadbeen performing the drink service.
However, despite their own injuries,the cabin crew, started doing emergency
protocol, because they're bad asses.
Flight attendants are fricking awesome.
They just got thrown from their seats.
Everything is going crazy and they'relike, Hmm, this seems like an emergency.
I'm gonna put on my, Igotta go help these people.
(27:36):
I gotta go help these people.
Once the aircraft did stabilize,they immediately began attending
to the injured passengers.
They applied first aid andthey really tried to restore
calm to the terrified cabin.
I can't even imagine the absoluteterror of those freaking people.
(27:57):
Yeah.
You get close enough tohear another Jess engines.
I'm freaking out myself.
it's one thing when you're quoteunquote crazy turbulence and
people around you are like, what?
And they get all nervous and they grab theseat and they start panicking and stuff.
This was a nose dive.
Mm-hmm.
So steep that the cabin lost gravity.
(28:21):
It's pretty wild.
So meanwhile, the top toour other plane, right?
The, uh, the DC 10 now where theBoeing 7 47 dove, they chose to climb.
Thank God they, they did that.
Just the lucky, perfect call.
Yes.
In this plane, there were no injuries.
Oh, good.
Passengers did know thatsomething had happened.
(28:44):
they knew that some sort ofemergency maneuver was executed.
Yes.
Still a hard climb.
Yes.
But it was the opposite direction thatheld you in your seat rather than Correct.
Yes.
It added Gs instead of removing the Gs.
Mm-hmm.
So they certainly knew, they wereaware, but they were not injured.
So that is a good news.
(29:06):
After the near Miss, captain Makotoimmediately turned his damaged 7 47
back toward Anita Airport, making anemergency landing at 4:44 PM which
is about an hour after the incidentflight 9 5 8 continued to Norta
Airport and landed normally at 4:32 PM.
(29:30):
So they didn't have any injuries,and I guess they were like,
okay, well, we're, mm-hmm.
We're just better.
Finish this one.
We're just gonna, we isgonna do it by evening.
Eight passengers from flight 9 07 remained hospitalized with 22
injured passengers having beenreleased after their treatment.
Hospitals around Tokyo were treatingvarious injuries from broken bones to
(29:53):
burns from the spilled hot beverages.
I think about this all the time.
It's why I am very particular abouthaving my tea in a lockable, thermos.
I never have an open container of tea if Iam in a car, a plane, anything like that.
So Japan Airlines did respondquickly dispatching representatives
(30:17):
to hospitals and sending apologyletters to all passengers on the 7 47.
Thankfully, all of the injuredpassengers eventually recovered fully.
However, the repercussions of thosefew terrifying seconds in the sky
over Japan were just beginning.
The investigation into the incidentbegan immediately with Japanese
(30:40):
authorities analyzing flight data,cockpit voice recordings, and air
traffic control communications.
Their findings published in July,2002 revealed the central issue that
had put nearly 700 lives at risk.
Confusion over whether the pilotsshould prioritize TCAs instructions
(31:02):
or air traffic control commands.
Mm-hmm.
When the two conflicted, atthe time, there was no clear
international standard on whichinstructions pilots should follow.
In a scenario like this,captain Makoto had followed what
was then standard procedure.
Which is to prioritize human controllerinstructions over something that is
(31:26):
automated based on their findings.
Investigators actually made a crucialrecommendation to the International
Civil Aviation Organization, whichis the United Nations Agency that
coordinates aviation's standardsworldwide, and they really recommended
that there was a clear guidance.
(31:46):
That TCAs should always takeprecedent over air traffic control
instructions in situations like this.
Trust the robots, I guess.
But honestly, in this scenario,it really makes sense.
I don't disagree.
I mean, it was thet cast notes.
Yeah.
(32:07):
Yes.
Yeah, it's designed to do onething and then on the other
hand, you have a, mm-hmm.
A rookie person that is tryingto keep things organized.
I mean, it's just human, human error.
It's human error is a thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
This recommendation took on even greaterurgency when, just months later in
(32:27):
July, 2002 another incident would takeplace that was very similar to this.
And I'm not gonna give toomany details away because it
is, we're gonna cover, right?
We're gonna cover, yeah,it's already written.
This episode is already writtenand, it's a horrible story.
I haven't told it to you because Icried writing it and I need to work
up the courage to tell it to you.
(32:48):
Okay.
So the important thing to know isthat two similar incidents happen
in very, very close succession.
You said it was 2001 to 2002.
Yes.
So the incident that we'retalking about happened in 2001.
Mm-hmm.
And then in 2002, another,there's another, yeah.
(33:08):
Yes.
It, even though that one wasactually not a close call, that one
was a really devastating incident.
Okay.
Or so we'll find out.
Yeah.
In one of our episodes, you guys willfind out it's gonna be a rough one.
Following these two incidents,the International Civil Aviation
Organization amended its regulations,so the new rule made it clear.
(33:31):
Pilots must follow TCAs even ifthey do conflict with air traffic
control instructions today, thisprotocol is really standard worldwide.
When pilots receive a TCAs warning,they follow that first, then inform
air traffic control that they'reresponding to A-T-C-A-S advisory.
This clear hierarchy of commentshas undoubtedly prevented
(33:56):
similar incidents from happening.
Mm-hmm.
But the fallout from theJapan Airlines incident.
Didn't just end with regulatorychanges in an unprecedented move.
Japanese authorities brought criminalcharges against the air traffic
controllers involved in the incident.
Oh, that's a rough first day on the job.
(34:18):
I hate that too.
But you know, a Yeah, butlike people almost died.
A whole bunch of 'em almost.
And if the pi, well, if the pilots.
We're not amazing in paying attentionand weirdly mentally synced up.
Shit would've hit the fan.
Yeah, it would've been very bad.
So, or the turbine Zachary.
(34:40):
In March, 2004, prosecutors formallyindicted both trainee controller
and the supervisor charging themwith professional negligence.
So the trainee controller, Taniand the supervisor OMI charging
them with the negligence.
(35:01):
So that's going on your permanent record?
Yeah.
Their case went to trial later thatyear with prosecutors eventually
seeking 10 year and 15 yearprison sentences respectively.
Wow.
Extraordinarily severe penalties.
Yeah.
For an incident of this, youknow, nature, which while serious
(35:23):
did not actually kill anyone.
Yeah.
No one died from this.
So 15 years in prison.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
I don't think that punishmentfits the crime, but that's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's pretty wild.
The controller's case dragged throughthe Japanese legal systems for nearly
a decade with initial acquittals,followed by appeals convictions,
(35:46):
and counter appeals in October,2010, which is almost a decade.
Mm-hmm.
After this happened, JapanSupreme Court upheld guilty
verdicts against both controllers.
Sentencing them to suspended prison terms.
Japan doesn't fuck around.
They take their prison seriously.
(36:07):
They really do.
Yeah.
Like they, they actually do thecriminal prosecution of air traffic
controllers was highly controversialwithin the aviation community.
Many experts argued that criminalizingerrors in high stress environments
would discourage reporting andtransparency, which are essential
(36:28):
elements of aviation's safety.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Agree.
Yeah, it's a choice.
The near collision of JapanAirlines, flight 9 0 7 and 9 58
represents one of the closestcalls in modern aviation history.
If not for the quick reactionsof the pilots and some extreme
luck, it would've been one of thedeadliest air disasters of all time.
(36:52):
Yeah.
Period.
Because that makes it,what about 700 people?
Is that Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Hmm.
What makes this case so fascinatingis how it illuminates the complex
relationship between human.
And technology in the modern world.
The TCAs system was right andhad both aircraft followed the
automated instructions, theywould've maintained safe separation.
(37:17):
Mm-hmm.
But the human tendency to trusthumans over machines led to
a really dangerous situation.
The incident changed aviationforever by really establishing a
clear hierarchy in these situations.
and the change of using TCAs, itreflects a subtle but significant
(37:39):
shift in how we balance humanjudgment over technology safeguards.
So those lessons from thisincident remain relevant today.
As recently as 2023, there wereover 20 serious close calls
reported in US airspace alone.
(37:59):
Wow.
With investigations revealing thatover 75% of air traffic control
facilities were understaffed.
That's one of the big jobsthat you'll get that, yeah.
That freaks me out morethan anything else.
Honestly, when I'm flying isthinking about how short staffed
they're, yes, they are stressed.
There are reports of rampant alcoholismhappening in air traffic control, cocaine.
(38:24):
It's like really pretty insane.
We'll do an episode actually onthe dark side of, of air traffic
control as a career because it's,yeah, it's the number one suicide
job in the world, I believe it is.
It's pretty insane the challenges ofmanaging our increasingly crowded skies.
Continues to evolve and the role of anair traffic control, employee critical.
(38:49):
Yeah.
One of the most high stakes,but important jobs in the world.
Okay.
So if there's one lesson that we cantake away from this incident, Zach.
It is that you should keep your seatbeltfastened at all times on an airplane.
Unless you are getting up to go potty,please wear your freaking seatbelts,
(39:09):
if not for you, for the person whoselap you're going to land into when
your aircraft goes into negative Gs.
They're not gonna like that either.
No, they'll be less than thrilled.
The negative Gs are temporary folks.
Ah, brutal.
All right, Zach, that.
Is our story for today.
All right, well that isone that I don't know.
(39:33):
I'm just picturing feelingthe negative Gs myself.
I feel like it would be fun.
And then picture hot coffeesplashed in your face.
Well guys, quit drinking coffee.
It's silly.
Grab a Red Bull.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Full Red Bull can to theface would also be not fun.
All right.
It gives you wings.
You could fly yourself at that point.
(39:53):
Oh my gosh.
All right, folks, if you enjoyedthis episode, please rate, review and
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also follow us on social media atFinal Board and Call POD for behind the
scenes content update on future episodes.
And we also have a Facebook discussiongroup that's really fun as well.
(40:13):
Join us next time.
When we'll be exploring anothertransportation disaster that
changed safety standards forever.
Until then, remember to stow your traytables, fasten your seat belts, and
prepare for the unexpected, because notevery trip reaches its final destination.
(40:36):
Goodbye.
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