February 11, 2026 • 48 mins
Welcome back for Season 6 of Future You: achieve your career goals. This year we're tackling topics chosen by you. If you have a suggestion for something you'd like us to cover, get in touch podcast@prospects.ac.uk.
We kick off with everything you need to know about apprenticeships.
Host Emily Slade is joined by:
Erin McKelvey, talent attraction manager at Forvis Mazars
Holly Slater, early careers partner at Jisc
Owen Marshall-Jones, recently completed a digital marketing apprenticeship with Prospects
Matthew Farrow, apprentice quantity surveyor with Gleeds
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Still trying to figure out whether you should go to university or do an apprenticeship: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/apprenticeships/should-i-go-to-university-or-do-an-apprenticeship/
Overview of degree apprenticeships: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/apprenticeships/degree-apprenticeships/?utm_source=Podbean&utm_medium=podcast+episode+&utm_campaign=Apprenticeship_episode&utm_term=Apprenticeship_Podbean
Apprenticeship cover lever template: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/cvs-and-cover-letters/cover-letters/apprenticeship-cover-letter/
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📝 Take the job match quiz: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-match?utm_source=Podbean&utm_medium=podcast+episode+&utm_campaign=Apprenticeship_episode&utm_term=Apprenticeship_Podbean
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📜 Episode transcripts: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/podcasts/future-you-podcast-transcripts
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(00:00):
That's sort of really stereotypical ideaof an apprentice.
You're making the tea.You're making the coffee.
As soon as I'd got on the system
got used to what software we’re usingyou’re just straight into the job.
I'm Erin, I am a talent attraction managerat Forvis Mazars.
I'm Holly Slater i’m the early careerspartner at Jisc
My name is Owen, I work at Jisc.
I'm a digital marketing apprentice,but I finished the summer just gone.
(00:22):
My name is Matthew Farrow.
I'm an apprentice quantity surveyor working for Gleeds.
Welcome to Future You,
the student and careers advice podcastbrought to you by Prospects.
We help you choose the right degree,find the perfect career, and transition
smoothly into life after study FromA-level results to starting your new job,
(00:43):
we're with you every step of the wayon your journey to future you.
So I guess to beginwith, is it still a myth,
or is it
true thatpeople look down on apprenticeships
true thatpeople look down on apprenticeships
compared to the formal educationuniversity route?
I think that's changed completely.
I think that was the case many years ago,and I think it's really changing
(01:05):
because the value of apprentices,all the statistics and research show,
that apprentices take more time,take more investment,
but actually are a bigger resourceto the firm
because they're more likely to staywith your organisation longer term.
So actually,you're building your future workforce
in a way that graduates are a little bitmore mobile.
They tend to jump around between jobs.
So do school leavers
(01:26):
who've done apprenticeships,but they're likely to stay longer.
So actually people are viewing itas an opportunity to really think
about growing your talent and growingyour leadership teams in 10, 20 years.
Who you recruit now.
And I also think the skills have changedso dramatically.
I think previously apprenticeshipswere in more vocational skills.
And so it was seen as,oh, this is what you do,
if you don't want to go to university.
(01:47):
I actually think it's just being seenas an alternative to university now.
there's, are there still different typesof apprenticeships.
You've got the degree apprenticeships.
You've got your vocational apprenticeship.You've got your different levels.
So you can do level two, three, four five.
Level 6 is degree equivalent and Level7 is a Masters equivalent.
So you've really got that rangeand you can start and build up.
It's not as if
(02:07):
if you go into a Level 4 apprenticeshipthat is you that kind of steer.
But it also means that if you're not surewhat you want to do, you can start there,
build up your skills and expertise.
And then if you decide actually,this is what I want to specialise
in, you can work up to thatin the same way.
And some people are always like,oh, it has to be a Level 7.
I don't even think that's the casebecause it depends on what you want to do.
(02:28):
So I studied French and journalismat university
and like actually to be a journalist,you do not need a university degree.
You need the skills of being ableto speak to people and being able to write
things compellingly and factually,report or give your opinion.
You can do an apprenticeship
in journalism now because actuallythat makes more sense in those skills.
But you don't need a degree equivalentto do that necessarily.
(02:50):
So it's all about the roleyou're doing as well.
And so from the employer's point of view,
I feel like even five years ago
it felt likeeverybody needed a degree to get a job.
Is it now?
Are we starting to see job applicationsthat are more
an apprenticeship equivalent?
Absolutely.
And I think that's the thing is, it usedto be that your degree was currency
(03:11):
didn't matter what the subject,in the same way it was that currency,
that entry into the dooror yes, step in the door.
I think now it's very muchactually it's the skills
because everyone has a degreenow it's the skills that are focused on.
And actually when you're doing thatLevel 7 equivalent,
it's the equivalent to a degree.
Or you can get a degree apprenticeshipfor this.
(03:32):
Mazars offer a Level 7which is a degree equivalent.
They are fully qualified accountant.
They're the exact sameas someone who finishes
their degree, comes and joins us, doesa three year course and then qualifies.
But this person's doing it at 21. Yeah.
And employers I think are looking moreand more those skills.
And then the qualifications that back it.
But when you look at entry requirements
(03:54):
things have changedreally dramatically as well.
I think it's a lot more inclusivein a lot of workplaces.
It's no longer looking atyou need these UCAS requirements. Yes,
some places have them and there's basicacademic requirements that are needed.
You know, thatC grade in Maths, English, etc.
but I think people are looking more aboutthose transferable skills and actually
your situation in you as a whole personrather than you as a set of data.
(04:17):
Yeah, completely.
And I think as well, onceyou've got your apprenticeship, it's
the equivalentof having any other qualification.
It's what you pull out from it.
So they're saying now that GenZ on average have 17 different
jobs,and 5 to 6 careers across their lifetime.
So I think about it.I started as a teacher.
(04:37):
I moved into early careers recruitment,and I've stayed there,
but I've also diversified into marketingand different things like that.
And again,
it's always been about those transferableskills and the story I tell with that.
And I think that's the samewith apprenticeships, is actually
what story
you wanted to tell, how you wantedto build on that experience,
what are you wanting to take from itand move with it?
And I think that's the key thing with themis that it's a qualification.
(04:59):
Like any of the qualification.
And I think when you hear the wordapprenticeship, you're like,
oh, well,this means I'm pigeonholed into this.
It absolutely doesn't.
It's the same as having a an A-levelin something or a BTEC or a degree.
It's just a different levelof qualification. Yeah.
Yeah that makes sense.
so I would say the most commonmisconception about apprenticeships is.
People tend to think that they may not be,
(05:23):
as academic or as highly regarded
as going to university,which is absolutely not the case.
I mean, at Jisc, we,we offer both apprenticeship
and graduate schemesbecause we see the value of both, So
there's no real differencein the quality of apprenticeships
(05:44):
versus degrees.
But I think there'sjust this stigma around them.
So another one would be that, peoplethink apprenticeships are only for people
who finish school or that kind of agerange, which again, is not the case.
I know the government
are doing a lot to encourageyounger people to go into apprenticeships,
(06:06):
but they're also a fantastic opportunityfor people to reskill in different areas.
And at Jisc, again,
we have many people who are still inapprenticeship alongside their permanent
full time role because they're wanting,as I said, to either reskill
or maybe even develop the current skillsthat they got even further.
(06:27):
So I think, age is often,a misconception that things, as well.
Yeah. Oh, brilliant.
The misconceptionthat apprenticeship’s an easy ride
because I feel like I get the impressionsometimes of people that haven't done one.
And it's what I hearall the time about when I did one, is that
like, oh, it's too good to be true.
It's it's easy then because like,your degree is paid for, you getting paid,
(06:49):
but like, that's sort of like the on paperelements of it and not like that.
Not really the full picture because it'slike affecting you as a person.
So and I think many people quite mentionhow tough it can be.
Yeah.
Obviously there's periodswhere you're like, this is amazing.
Getting paid like, degrees paid for.
Look at everyone else paying off thestudent debt But, on the other hand is.
(07:12):
Yeah, it's too good to be true.
It is true sometimes.
But on this part of it where you're like,
oh my God, this is so full on, like,I've got so much uni work to do.
I've got so much work to do.
How am I going to do this?
But yeah,I think highlighting the fact that
if you're going to
do a degree apprenticeship,be ready to work hard. Be ready to graft.
(07:32):
No, there’s, nothing's going to get put ona plate for you is up to your productivity
and your time managementto get to where you want to be.
One of the pros arguably for universityis the like uni life aspect of it.
And that's definitely changedover the past like ten years even
do you feel you're missing outon any thing that that offers
the campus life, the like,the party side, the social side?
(07:55):
I think not once again, downto what you make of it and like making
the most of it because you could go to unibut then sort of
isolate yourself in study or just sort ofgo back to your dorm and not do much.
But then I know with me on mine,we would often hang out with our friends
in the class and we'd go for drinks,go for food after uni.
So I think it's what you make of iteither way.
(08:16):
So I think
just because you go down traditional uni,
it doesn't mean you'll makethe most of your social life there
because you might take it for granted.
Whereas I think
you form quite, quite closebond with your class in a
degree apprenticeship, especially or even on Level 4, Level 3
apprenticeship because you're all workingtowards the same goal and you,
you’ve all got jobs.
(08:38):
You're all learning different skills,learning how to be in a corporate job,
maybe.
So I think you sort of bond,like, closer and quicker.
I found. And you meet people of all agesbecause all ages can do apprenticeships.
So I think that uni is sort of aroundthe same age group, mainly traditional
route, whereas
people of all ages in my class.
And you can sort of see how the trajectorythey've gone down and learned mistakes
(09:02):
and and learn lessons.
I think. Yeah,I think you definitely don't lose.
So if you want the social lifefrom doing a degree, apprenticeship
or any apprenticeship, you can have it.
You just maybe have to try a little bitharder than if you're on campus all day.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I sometimes I sit, and I think, oh, I wish I’d gone to University
(09:22):
I wish I'd,you know, see that side of life
because most peopleyou ask about university
they’re like, it was the best,best three, five years of my life.
Sometimes you'd be like,am I missing out on that?
And naturally you are going
to feel like you are missing outbecause the social life at university
is really fun, butit can also be quite relentless as well.
You know,as you know, people go to university,
to probably barely ever see a lecturerbecause they're too busy recovering.
(09:46):
But no, Idefinitely agree with your points on that.
You can easily have that social lifein the apprenticeship.
Like I go out after work plenty of times
almost every Thursday,sometimes with my team.
And I think if you work in a team all dayand you're all working towards that
mutual goal and you succeed at that goaland you celebrate with work drinks,
(10:06):
I think that that sense of communityand that sense of what team is
you can't get that at university,you can't get that with many things.
You know, if all work togetherand then you all celebrate together
and then you're onto the next task.
There's no there's no slowing down.
It's always on to the next task. So.
Yeah, well,sometimes I do feel like i’m missing out.
But again, for me personally, it'sdefinitely more of like my social life.
(10:28):
I like the balance, I like working hardand also having the opportunity to go out,
enjoy it. And also you,
you'vegot a bit more money in your pocket.
You can go probably to nicer places.
No, not not some of the places that youprobably get stuck in at university.
But yeah, that you’re just there because it's cheap,you can go to nice places,
do nice things.
(10:51):
What's one piece of advicethat you would give to somebody who's
torn between going down the universitypath or the apprenticeship path?
It's not necessarilythat one is better than the other.
So, you know, you can take that outof your consideration straight away.
They're both very different choices.
I would say listen to your instinctand try not to be pressured
(11:13):
by what other peopleare telling you to do.
This is your decision.
And if it is university,it could be three years, could be four.
If you do a, Masters or a year abroad.
Same with an apprenticeship.
If it's a Level 6 or above it could be four years.
(11:34):
That's a long time to spenddoing something that you don't enjoy,
or that you feel likeyou've been pushed into.
So when you're looking at both optionsand you're a little bit torn
write a pros and cons list,get all of the information down
about what you think is beneficialof doing an apprenticeship
and what's not, and also what's,
(11:57):
beneficial of doing a university,going to university
and not and really helpingthat to decide, for you.
Because as I say,it's it's a long time to do something
where your passion isn't thereso just make sure
that at the end of the day,it's your choice and you're happy with it.
Because that's the most important thing.
(12:18):
So what made you choose the apprenticeshiproute in the first place?
I mean, without sounding cliche, at,there were so many advantages
to an apprenticeshipthat I just couldn't ignore.
So obviously the lack of debt, the experience,sort of career progression
that you can get without
going to universityby the time most people finish university,
we've got the same amount of experience,well we’ve got experience
(12:40):
that they wouldn't have had in, years,which is just, yeah, to me.
And I just want a hands on role.
Yeah.
That allow me to work and studyat the same time.
And whilst it is quite a lot,
it's.
Yeah, it's really good.
Yeah.
I think, like during school and college,it wasn't really on my mind to go down
the traditional route going to uni,but I looked at like the
(13:03):
financial aspect of it and like the debt. I just thought the apprenticeship
route suited me more because I didn'tinitially want to go to university.
Then with the finances on top,someone had mentioned it to me in college,
and like a lot of people,I originally thought it was
sort of the hands on apprenticeships.
So the engineering sort of that line.
But then when I looked on
different websites,
(13:23):
I realisedthere's quite a lot of industries
and I just saw it applyingand after that, yeah.
So obviously when you were applying
for your apprenticeships,was there anything that you were like?
Because obviously probably similar to mewhen I first started five apprenticeships,
even before I did this one,I did a different apprenticeship.
Yeah. And I didn't really know what Iwhat to do.
So was like,was this something you want to do
or like an area that you want to workin? Yeah.
(13:44):
So originally I actually mainly didsort of product design
and graphic design in college.
And then upon searching onlike apprenticeship websites,
government website, I quickly realizedthere wasn't money out there
that was either a graphic designer jobtitle or a product designer job title.
So that's when I did some researchand found out what roles they can sort of
(14:04):
go into in a wider area,and I came across marks and and as soon as
I popped that keyword in on the websites,instantly there was roles.
Yeah.
So you saw I've got to know the marketin a way and know what?
And then as soon as I went on the marketin apprenticeships,
I realized a skill setwas actually my skill set.
I was just sort of naive and youngerat the time.
I didn't know what job titles wereand what the market was,
(14:26):
and as soon as I did,the search completely changed.
I went from 1 to 2 roles to 20 to 30.
Yeah, yeah. No.
What about you?How did you decide what you wanted to do?
So prior to my current apprenticeship.
Now, I did apprenticeship in sales for ayear, but in the construction industry.
So I worked in sales of concrete.
And whilst that role definitelywasn't for me
(14:46):
in terms of the role,the sales side of it, no,
not really my type of role, but again,similar to you, it was like my first.
I'd just finished collegeand I was like, right,
I need to get myself an apprenticeship.
So it was kind of gota few different offers in different roles.
But I landed on the sales one.
And then, yeah, that made me realizeI want to work in construction.
So off the back ofthat looks into different roles.
(15:08):
If you've got project managementor conscious of any sort of
two of the main roles within constructionand I thought lots
and thought concepts of being more,okay, it's a my skill set.
So what was the application process like?
So it was a bit probably a bit differentto what the normal conventional route
(15:29):
is, where you probably got like three,four months.
You apply, you go to maybe like a whatthey called like assessment centre.
Yeah.
You go to an assessment center,and a native
the back of thatyou'll have another interview.
And off the back of that, you know,it can be quite a vigorous process.
But for me, for the companyI currently work for, sort of lays on
a bit of other advice is like,it's never it.
(15:51):
Obviously there's periodswhere you've got like
start of the year where it'sgood to apply for apprenticeships,
but for me, it was quite short notice.
It was like, right,
I had a few different coursesof eight offers,
but I knew they weren't ready for me.
So I've found leads, applied within
about a week of applyingthe best for me, saying, well, what?
You come innext week to do a presentation,
(16:11):
pick one of our projects,do a presentation on it.
And then literally did that.
So it went quite well. Didn't hear back.
And then I was on the way, on holiday, got a phone call from Leeds
and they went, yeah.
We were like,yeah, we want to review what, the role.
So yeah, for me it was a no brain.
A second I got our phone callaccepted on the spot of a and it was
(16:33):
amazing.
What about you and your applicationprocess?
I was I was just relentless, really.
I was, like, going all year long.
And it got to the pointwhere I was applying for that money.
The I couldn't tell which
email or phone call was about which one,but that was sort of the mindset I was in.
I was just relentless go in
and not sort oflike putting all your eggs in one basket.
And I feel like that's how I started.
(16:54):
I was on apply for one onI leave the process, I think, okay, I'm
waiting to hear back from that one.
But I quickly realized it can take months.
It can take two three months
depending on how long away they arefrom actually hiring.
So I applied for,
I just got apprenticeship, andI just got a phone call about probably.
Yeah, about a month later.
(17:14):
So once again, it's quite a whileafter you initially apply.
And they said, I've got the role.
And I think consideringI was probably slightly underqualified
and the fact that I was sort of,getting offered interviews and stuff, it
it does showit's not just about the hard skills,
it's about the soft skills,how you perform in the interview.
And mine was just, online interview,
(17:36):
I'm pretty sure it was only one interview,but it was quite an intense interview.
And you did need to do company researchextra.
Sort of, especially because I was supposeslightly underqualified.
So justify your skills a bit more and
they're a bit more creative.
As you know, you've not black and white
got like the elementsyou knew, like the grades, etc..
How did you stay motivated in these gapsin this long
(17:58):
period of the application process?
Were you workingor were you just like refreshing?
Yeah.
So I was working at the time
purely to stock my CV for like the rolesI was applying for.
I'd kind of say like maybe a bit cliche,a lack of motivation,
but it was more disciplineand it was motivation.
So regardless of my moodthat day, I had to apply.
(18:21):
It was sort of like,it was it became just like ritual.
Like I was like a habit.
Every morning I check every time.
If you're on a bus, on a train,passenger in a car.
It's literally thought of what it waslike for me.
And obviously the market has changed a lotover the last few years,
but I think they areand they are competitive.
So I think you've got to beyou can't sort of like apply yourself
(18:44):
when you when you feel like it,when you're in the mood for it.
It's the role you like.
Might not be therewhen you're in the mood.
So it's got to beit's got to be relentless.
So I was doing every day downtimeor lunches before work sat in the car.
Yeah.So almost like a part time job. Yeah.
It essentially took over more brainpowerthan my actual job was taken over.
(19:04):
But that was because I knewhow competitive when I saw striving for it
was. It was literally just a sort oflike a milestone job to get me to that.
So yeah,
I kept that in the back of my mind,the UN in this to get this apprenticeship.
So that's what I'm working towards.
how can an applicantmake their application stand out?
(19:24):
making sure that onethey read the entire job description
and everything that we kind of askfor within there.
So any entry requirementsand stuff like that,
just making sure that they fit the brief,
they don'thave to meet all of the criteria,
but just making sure that,you know, like 50 plus percent is matched
and then also makinguse of showcasing their
(19:46):
physical
or technicalskills as well as their soft skills.
I think a lot of people forgethow to present soft skills in the CV,
especially if they don't have necessarilyany formal work experience.
But what I would always recommendis including any extracurricular clubs
you've been part of, if you've been partof a sports team or played a sport.
(20:08):
Making sure you list that as well as,
any school clubs.
So for example, in school clubs, sports,extracurricular activities,
you'll probably be using, communicationskills,
you'll be using the team buildingskills, building rapport with people,
building resilienceespecially if you play a sport.
(20:28):
So make sure you include thatin your applications
because that's going to showcasesome of the skills that actually employers
are looking for,as well as those kind of technical skills
or I suppose the qualificationspeople want to see as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's waysto stand out in a good way.
(20:48):
And there's also waysthat you can stand out in a negative way
during the application process.
And one of the things I wanted to kind ofdiscuss is I.
Yeah. And that is quite a hot topic.
And recruitmentand applications at the moment.
And I'm not saying don't use I,
I'm not against the I think it's a really,really helpful tool.
But what I would say is just checkif a company has a policy on AI.
(21:12):
I know some companies, for example,encouraging applications.
Othersexplicitly say, please don't use it.
So I just say, you know, respectthose company
wishes and, you know, if that worksfor you, great, apply for them.
But if you really love AIand want to put that in your application,
then maybe if a company restricts that,it might not be worth for you.
(21:34):
But when I say it can makeyour application stand out in a bad way.
Well, I'm referring tois basically getting AI to write your CV,
which unfortunately we do see.
And when we do see,it's really, really clear and obvious. So
althoughAI is a really, really good technique
and software to use,is it in the right way.
(21:58):
So, you know, there's no harmin putting a job, advert into AI in sin.
Can you showcase all of the,
qualificationsthat you would need to apply for this job?
Or can you explicitly tell me which keyskills that are really looking for?
And then you can make sure that you're
hitting all of the marksyou need to when applying for that,
(22:21):
for that role as well,using it for application processes.
So for example, interviews,if you've got an interview coming
up, by all means put the company detailsin that, ChatGPT or whatever
are you using and say,I've applied for this role,
please can you come up with five questionsthat I might get in the interview?
And that's a really good wayof preparing yourself for an interview,
(22:44):
using AI in the right way as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because can they tell, like,not only is it obvious that this
has been written by AI, but
a lot of recruitmentnow can run it through a system
that immediately is just like,yeah, this was 90% AI.
Yeah. So some some companies do differ.
Some will actually use like techniqueswhere they'll find AI.
(23:07):
But it can be quite trickybecause I've heard some people who were
potentially neurodiverseor have a certain writing style
can be picked up as using the AIwhen actually, yeah, I haven't.
It's just their writing style.
So, it's not always that, but it's just
when you read a CVthat's clearly submitted,
(23:27):
just solely using the AI, where theyhaven't even checked whether it's American
spelling or any mistakesor anything that just reads in human,
it just means that the company don'tactually
know who they're goingto be potentially employing.
They're not seeing the real candidate.
And it can potentially showcasesome areas
(23:50):
where you may notnecessarily have the skills that arises
how to say
like maybe fluffed up a little bitand in your, in your application.
So it's, that's the kind of main reasonwhy I would say
stay away from using it as a toolfor just writing.
Yeah.
The CV, by all means,if you want to use it to write a section
(24:12):
and then take it away and go, right,how can I make this more me?
How can I add in what I want to say?
That sounds robotic.
It hasn't actually caught the passionor drive that I really have.
How do I add Dean?But that's fine as well.
But always, always checkthe company policy whether they have one.
think that's where people fall downis I'm going to get AI to do it,
(24:33):
use it as a tool.
It is a tool. But when people then use it,
everyone'sgetting very similar applications.
So now it's how can you stand out?
And that is the interview piecebecause people are looking at you
as an individual and it's those skills,and it doesn't have to be it.
Because I think one thing where
when the AI conversation comes up,it's like, great.
So the extroverts are going to win.
Yeah, I'm thinking that.
But actually not always the casebecause I think actually
(24:55):
the power is those introvertedprofessionals who can communicate.
It's not all about one communicationstyle as well.
What's the biggest mistakethe applicants make?
So I would sayone of the biggest mistakes.
And it is so, so simple is not researchingthe company before applying.
I'm not saying you need to have,you know, cliff notes on
(25:16):
every single companyyou're going to be applying for
because there's probablygoing to be quite a few.
And I think companies understandyou're not putting all of your eggs
in one basket and you're not onlyapplying for that role, but
try to
understand a little bit about whatthe company do,
maybe some of their key services,what's important to them.
(25:39):
As I said, you don't have to spend hoursand hours trying to research company,
grab the website, pop it in ChatGPT
AI and just say, can you give me ten facts
about this company or, what their key services are?
And then you've got that informationto hand so you can find out
(26:00):
a little bit more about themor you can use those
to ask questions at at interview level.
But showing that interest in the companyreally shows that you're actually wanting
that job and you're not supplying for itfor the sake of applying.
And it really helps uswhen we're at interview stage
(26:22):
and we're trying to whittle downthe best candidates,
those that have shown interest in us
and why they want to work for ustend to stand out a little bit
more than those who, when we ask them,what do you know about to ask?
And they say,
I, I don't know.
And it really, really helps the other, to stand out.
(26:44):
And as well, you want to be interestedin where you're going, to work,
you don't want to show up day in, day outand not
enjoy the company you're working for.
once you've researchedthe company as well,
you might find thatthey have similar values to you.
And that will really help youto connect to that company.
And that will showcase in your passionwhen you apply for a job.
(27:08):
So if, you know, for example,one of our core
values is always inclusive.
So, you know,
having that inclusive environmentthat's going to mean a lot to some people.
So when they're applyingand that's what they're applying for,
then they're going to be ableto showcase their passion,
why they want to work for GSK,and that's going to help them stand out
(27:31):
against other peopleObviously when you study at university
you don't get paid to do thatand you pick up a part time job.
The whole idea of an apprenticeshipis that you earn while you learn. Yes.
What? How much?
how much on.
And do you know what?
It's a really hard one to answer becausedifferent companies pay different things.
It depends on how you're breakingthe study and those earning
(27:54):
as well on average.
And it is very much on average acrossAct, apprentices are looking at anywhere
between 17,000 and 20,000 poundswhen they start off.
So it is a lower salary.
However, the way I always think about it
is I think about four optionsat the moment.
So a school leaveapprenticeship is four years.
At the end of those four yearsthey're qualified chartered accountant,
for example.
(28:15):
Someone does a degree,they've got those three years
of non earningsand then they have a three year course.
So one year into that graduate program
the school leaver is fully qualifiedwhich means they're on a higher salary.
So yes, graduatesdo start on a higher salary.
But that potential when you think about itas a school leavers, actually,
by the time I'm 22,I will be a fully qualified
(28:38):
chartered accountant,which means my earning potential
rockets.
And also, once you qualified,that salary goes up.
I mean keeps going up
and your progression is quickerbecause by the time you're 25,
you've actually got seven yearsexperience versus a grad who has 3 or 4,
Because also as a graduateand obviously everyone's
financial situation is different,but most graduates graduate
(29:00):
and your salary does not goas far as you think
because student loansare taking part of it.
And as you like.
Progress and your salary goes up, theytake just a little bit more each time.
So no, I guessactually You got to pay in Greece.
You don't need six.
It's all going to UK,
And I also think looking at the companies
and looking at what they offer,because if you're doing an apprenticeship,
yes, you're on that apprenticeship,you're doing that learning.
(29:21):
But what if I learn and developan offer outside of that?
So we've got LinkedIn learning,and I know that I've sat next
to someone in the office this morningwho was actually doing a Python, LinkedIn
learning session,
their their second year of order.And they're like,
I just think it'd be quite usefulfor like upcoming client work.
And I just needed a break.
I've just finished exams.
I just needed somethingjust outside the day to day
(29:42):
and have now a lotfor learning development.
I thought Python on LinkedIn learning.
I was like, cool,I need to just go on Instagram.
Yes, yes, an additional yearI watch Netflix, you do, you.
Wow. Wider offering as well as like,what are you getting access to,
what are the benefitsat that firm as well?
Like, I don't know if you go to the gymregularly.
(30:03):
you're getting discounted gym benefits,does that impact your salary as well?
So it's looking at itin that bigger picture as well.
I think is is really important.
Like one place I workedhad a Diet Coke fridge.
It saved mehundreds like little things like that,
a Diet Coke fridge?, Diet Coke fridgejust like Diet Coke on tap?
Essentially just always refilled.
(30:24):
always. Just diet?No, they also had Coke Zero.
Full fat.
Just whatever your Coke preferenceand a very nice coffee machine.
The amount of moneyI actually saved by having that.
And I knowit sounds like a really silly benefit.
The amount of money I spend on coffeeand Diet Coke.
On top of everything else,that was good from what you were getting.
Yeah, I think it's.
Yeah, it's giving like,oh, have you seen our ping pong table?
(30:46):
But also like take me to the Coke fridge
I will live next to it and I will be help myself all the time
and I will save myself around £25 a week. Yes.
I think it's looking at the wider packageas a whole of like,
well, when in development,do they offer how many days annual leave.
All of those things painta bigger picture as well.
And I think that's key is
(31:07):
if you do an apprenticeship,you've got so many options like
it's a great timeto be looking at apprenticeship
because there are
so many different opportunitiesthat you really can be quite selective,
and really think, this is what I'm lookingfor and therefore I'm going to do it.
Yeah, amazing.
I’m obsessed with this coke fridge.
I’m like, how do I..Who do I send an email to? HR?
(31:28):
@HR, please can we have coke fridge please?
So let's focus in on that worklife balance.
Like what tips and tricks do you have?
I'd say one thingI haven't quite mastered yet.
But advice I'd definitely giveis give yourself enough time.
Do you do uni assignments?
Because you could say, oh, I'll do it,then I'll give myself,
(31:51):
I'll give myself a weekbefore to do my uni assignment,
but that might be, you know,something might happen on site.
I'll work then.
That week is then taken upbecause you have to prioritize that,
because that means dealingwith your relied upon to deal with that.
So from there,yeah, you just give yourself enough time.
If you've got downtime saying,say an hour or two
or you've got some time on the weekend,I would say do uni work.
(32:11):
And also, again, you probably wouldn't
know thisuntil you start a degree apprenticeship.
But yeah, one can seem like, oh,this is the reason me and it's quite easy.
This this world isn't.Go towards the final right.
This is on the first off.
Why do we need to work with a lot?
Use it very soon.
Very quickly.
It gets from. Okay, right. Well,you're in uni now.
You've got a yearbeing a quantity surveyor.
In my case,you're going to market in your case.
(32:34):
Now it's time, you know, show me whatyou've learned last year, then ramp it up.
And all of a sudden it does start goingtowards your final grade
and you get a bit of a slapin the face of reality of going
this, you've all start working.
I'll be like, it's timeto, you know, don't give yourself a week
to do assignment.
Give yourself a second to get set,you know, so you plan Fridays.
Afternoons are going to be spentdoing a little bit of that.
(32:54):
And yeah, just organizing your timeto the best of your ability
and yeah, be in control of itthough I lose control.
do you really find thatyour time is like crunched
or is it just like about prioritizingthings.
Yeah.
Prioritize and thingsI've recently started getting a list.
And also one key piece of adviceI would give someone is
I'm very easily distracted by things, soI might be doing a task in an email call.
(33:18):
Mystery.
All of a sudden I forget about thattask. An hour later I've come back to it.
I've got ten minutes to do it.So I wanted an hour ago.
So if you're doing something, especiallyif it's, you know, for a client,
finish it,
finish a task and then do the next taskafter obviously this urgent take on that.
But like if it's.
Yeah,but also prioritize your time. Yeah.
I was going to say that like,
(33:38):
a big element for me was having a hobbyduring my apprenticeship.
So it sounds unrelated,but I found that, like,
I would lean on my hobby quite a lotbecause,
like we say, saying that you're in workall day, then you might even be doing
2 to 3 hours of,apprenticeship work, sometimes after it.
So then either that night or the next dayyou have a break and you go, go.
(34:00):
And completely different from your career,go and do a hobby.
You go and often I think you have to.
I had a study routine of,like I'd go climbing like a climb
3 to 4 times a weekand that would sort of keep me going,
knowingI'd have breaks in between work and study.
And just no one has a cut off.
So if you're on a Sunday doingsort of uni work and you've got,
(34:22):
or college work and you've got work on
on Monday, on and done, just knowingwhen to call it quits, basically.
So like Sunday afternoon, just say
all of that is like a protected areawhere I don't do any work.
I don't do call it work.
I think
building that like habit from day one,I think I didn't do that from day one.
It taught me till year twoto realize how important that was.
(34:43):
And then I think it's quite employer dependent,
because those people in my class thatdidn't do any work are in their own time.
So they didn't do any work and hours on.
They builtit all worked in with their employer.
But it depends on the size of companyhousing you are.
It's so dependent. Heavily.
Yeah, it can change quite a lotthroughout the like a degree.
(35:04):
Apprenticeship can be 4 to 5 years.
A level three could be 18 months.
So things can change.
Hobbies can change,your interest can change.
But I think having something
that you're interested in outsidea professional is important.
And I think it'swell off the back of that.
If it is getting too much for you,
genuinely communicatelike no one wants you.
You employ enough.He doesn't want you to sit there.
(35:25):
Yeah,you know, tear in your heart thinking,
oh my God, I've got so much to do.Just communicate.
Say, look, I really, really, reallycan't take on all this work at the moment.
And I've what I've also learnedis the art of no sometimes and no
is just as powerful as a yes.
Because if someone asks youto do something
and you've got a list,as long as you're out of to do,
you know,just because you're an apprentice
doesn't meanyou have to say yes to everything.
You know you're already taken on a lot.
(35:46):
So yeah, learn to be numb.
Maybe not of nobleart of managing your time.
Yeah.
It's okay to be like no or don't say noto say, look, I can do that for you.
But maybe in a week or two weeksor three weeks and then at least
just on a realistic time spanand don't over promise and under deliver.
So yeah, obviouslywe're in a similar situation.
(36:07):
Well I'm probably doing my pension.You finished it.
What's the best piece of adviceyou could give someone now?
Maybe not even just notmaybe not even apply for apprenticeships.
Maybe someone is duringtheir apprenticeship.
Now, what would you say to look?
I'd to say for me,it was lying and being habitual.
So fall in the habits from day one.
And if it's not from day one, form it assoon as you come Monday morning and don't
(36:30):
then sort of postpone the thing.
So, like you say about the assignments,will get harder.
So if you build the habit from day oneor as early as you can of
like not leaving it till the day before,not leaving it till week.
Week one,then it’ll sort of have a domino effect.
Whereas if you've got in the habit of sortof like leaving stuff
sporadic and then by the time you get tothat final year,
(36:50):
it's too late to break the habit.
You feel your lifestyle around that.
So I think, yeah, don't let it stock up.
Because like I was saying in yearone, the assignments or the tasks
you've been given might seem quite easyand they might seem sort of below you
Yeah,but then out of nowhere they'll go up.
So if you've not got that foundation of
time and frequencyand like sort of your habits,
(37:11):
then it could have a domino effectfurther down.
Yeah.
And I'd say, to answer my own question.
I think I said thison the webinar recently and
I think
one of the thingsthat doesn't get spoken about enough is
being able to be yourselfand work and demonstrate
your personality, because there's so muchemphasis nowadays on company culture.
And yeah,when we want you to be part of our family
(37:33):
and it can get a bit tiring where you arequoted as culture or even mean.
But I think to meculture means being part of a
being working for an employer whereyou can totally be yourself, and that
then at least
you're not putting on a frontwhen you go to work and thinking,
oh, I've got to be someone elsefor the next eight
hours, you can be yourselfand you're appreciated for that.
(37:53):
That is so important to your work.
And yeah, it makes you enjoy your worka lot more.
So just demonstrate your personality.
Don't be scared to just the, I wasgoing to say I like to do that as well.
I found when I joined,that wasn't a true apprenticeship and,
like, graduate scheme here.
So there wasn't a lot of young peopleI was around.
And that was the biggest.
Or I say it's the biggest shockwhen I started was the lack of light
(38:15):
representation my age.
And you often a lot around a lot of seniorpeople that you might not be used
to outside of your family talking to this,sort of age and like seniority.
So I think, like, I know in Jiscwe have like good networks of like, fine.
So if you're interested in, like what,what the film looks like,
we have, like anything in books,like there'll be other people
(38:37):
that have it interest or even if it's likewe have, like, the youth network here.
So you meet up with other people your ageand so I'll bounce off of that
in an apprenticeship.
All they've done onebecause it of seem daunting
when you're likethe young person in the room
and more like you're
the only one that sort of hasthe same sort of like, humor or anything.
It can.
So I think, like, just reach outeven if someone's not in your part
(39:00):
of the business,if the if you're saying, oh,
that's, that's another young manthat's my age,
like you might have same interests as you.
It's just forming bonds.
Where outside of your team.
It's good to makenot just have colleagues.
How three years likeyou can make friends at work.
That's really important.
Definitely make surehowever long you're on your friendship.
How long you have that company?A lot all year. Yeah.
(39:23):
Yeah.
And I find the irony is sometimesthat the people outside of your team
that you actually get on with, like on asort of like a to a level, on a friendly
level, saw the pressure of like,oh, this is my manager.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like it's.
obviously I'm quite closewith my line manager and the wider team,
but some people you hear, they’re likeah, I hate my line manager.
Yeah.Or,
(39:43):
I’ve not spoke to my line manager in monthshe doesn't care about me, so.
But he might be sat there thinking,
i’ve not heard from you in months either
So it's a two way street.
They're busy. They're full time job.
And another just bit of adviceto give someone.
Starting your apprenticeship.And working for a company is
what I find most rewarding.
One of the most rewarding things about
my job is helping apprenticesthat I've started, say, this year
(40:06):
I've done it for a year
now, so I've, I've like reached outto all the apprentices and you know,
that's so rewarding to be like thatalmost shoulder to lean on, you know,
how do I do.
What did you do for this part you unionsimagine you didn't have that
like that person you've been there forthem is really important I think.
Yeah.
Yeah I was very lucky with that with mine.
So in my team, my art Elliewho she'd done the same course as me.
(40:30):
So I was learning from her.
But I've actually gone backsince I've finished.
I've gone back to dotalks at uni and webinars.
Just because
I think you've got to be grateful,because I know when I was doing my,
degree apprenticeship,
there was people coming in to approve usstudents and helping also a lot.
So like return the favor basicallybecause their advice can't help.
(40:50):
So I just think mine come to and like,let's have a run with as well
because they've been there,they've sat there, it thought,
oh my God, it's Friday night,I've got an exam,
I've got a uni assignment for Monday thatthey've been that everyone's been there.
So have that. Just need to breathe a bit.
Just allow all this fellow stressI've had.
So yeah just find themrelationships is really important.
what would you saythe most challenging aspect of it is?
(41:13):
the most challenging aspectis definitely balancing
your time is is a lot,especially when you get poor.
In my case, I get put on a projectand I'm required to give my full time
to that project.
Obviously, the people that you work forhave to be understanding that
you have got university,
and that does have to sort of be equalto the priority you put on your work,
because we usually start feeling uninow that comes back.
(41:35):
And that'sjust not not what you want to start doing.
another challenge is dealingwith the pressure of,
you know, your employees got anexpectation of you, you need to meet nice.
But when they're putting some of their,
themselveson the line by giving you to a client.
So you need tothen make sure that you're doing
enough or exceeding the expectations.
(41:57):
And yeah. So that was quite challenging.
Yeah I'd say it's similar.
But for me it was morein terms of knowing which is priority.
I think I still go to that a lot.
So I just startand uni's sort of like Level 4
grades, like within your degree.
I found work was priority.
I was putting work first.
But then as the grades sort of ramp up,that's when you sort of,
(42:21):
you don't know which to prioritise.
And, you know, uni becomes a lot harder,a lot like really quick.
So that's when sort of the scalesnever gonna sort of be even 5050.
It will weigh.
And I think it depends what employeeyou've got.
It depends what role you've got.
Because although you're an apprenticeshipyou might have a slightly more
junior role.
Depends on the company isso I think for me
(42:43):
does the scale sort of changethroughout the apprenticeship
with which was priority, which was harder.
And I know in the final year of minethe the scale had to tip to uni
because the gradesand it was asking a lot more of me,
whereas I'd become seniorin my job placement, I was more confident
and I could sort of like, not have to focus on it as much.
(43:03):
So, yeah.
I think that changes for outan apprenticeship.
Yeah. Of course.
let's skip now to the end ofyou've completed your apprenticeship.
What happens next?
Are you guaranteed
to work within the companythat you've been an apprentice for?
What?
What does that end of the processlook like?
if I'm honest, it totally depends onwhere you're doing your apprenticeship.
(43:26):
So at Jisc we do offerfixed term contracts.
So you will comein, you will do your apprenticeship,
and then we will cometo the end of your apprenticeship
and have a look to see whetherthere is a permanent role in that area.
If there's not, we'll have a lookto see what other alternative options
there are within the company.
But we're also very supportive of people
(43:46):
who decide Jisc isn't for themand want to look elsewhere.
And we'll support them on that journeythrough that as well.
So it does depend company to company.
Some offer fixed term apprenticeships,some offer permanent ones.
It's potentially a good questionto ask an interview stage.
What kind of comes next,whether it's fixed term or permanent,
(44:09):
just so that you've got that understandingfrom the beginning.
What's what's on offer. But
if it is a fixed
term, Iwould say don't don't let that put you off
because you learn so much as partof the apprenticeship, it will really set
you up to have skills to go into that areaor even to go into the next stage.
(44:30):
And as well,you might find whatever company you go to.
It just doesn't align with your values.
You can change completely in two years.
You can have a complete lifestyle changeand not want to live in the same country
or something like thatand want to go and explore life.
So, you know,a lot of things can change in two years,
so being on a fixed term rather thana permanent is not always a bad thing.
(44:54):
I think it just gives you that opportunityto explore further options that
you may not have initially thought about.
And as well,if you didn't like the apprenticeship,
you don't have to go into a rolein that area as well.
So there's there's options there as well.
Will,you offered a fixed term apprenticeship
or a permanent apprenticeship?
So it was literally a contractfor the four years of the apprenticeship.
(45:16):
And then for a while,I had conversations at the employer around
what my role is like at the end,if I can get a role and, well,
a lot of apprenticeships,I don't know if mine.
It was a case of hands on budgetat the time.
It depends on performance,it depends on the business.
Can change a lot in four years.
So they said to me at the start,like we still
have to keep you on at the end,but we can't guarantee a budget.
(45:38):
So yeah, and I have got kept on.
So I got luckyand I asked, but moving on from that,
then let's say you have been offereda role within the company.
Are you then applicable to move upthe ranks like any other employee?
I love this questionbecause I, I don't necessarily
think careers should be linear.
I, I myself have had a bit of asquiggly career, and I fully support them.
(46:04):
Obviously,if you do come in as an apprentice
and you want to move up the ranks,that that's a possibility.
Within companies, obviouslythe roles might need to be there.
Or it might be a progression schemewhere you come in and
after every two years or something,you're promoted.
Companies do work differently,
but if that's an optionthat you want to tick, absolutely.
(46:25):
There's nothing stopping you from,
you know, being a senior leaderjust because you start as an apprentice.
As an apprentice. Sorry.
But as well, if you come in and decide,
I don't like this area,I don't necessarily like this team
or this company isn't is necessarilyfor me, then, you know,
(46:46):
there's that option to take a sidewaysstep and gone into a company and
stood in towardsan apprenticeship will mean
that you will get transferable skillsthat you may be able to take elsewhere,
or you may have built rapportor relationships with a different team
where you're thinking it's a similarline of work, but not exactly the same.
(47:07):
But I'd still like to explorethat afterwards.
So I would say, don't get your head
set on havingthat really linear progression.
Unless that's really important to you,
but be open to exploring different things.
I think when I, when I finisheduniversity, I just had this idea
(47:29):
that, I'd be in that kind of rolefor 30 years or whatever.
Like, I'd just move up and up and up.
And that's kind of how the world of work,worked.
Whereas now people finish in university
or people finish in schoolor college, whatever, they've got like
40, 50 years of work.
(47:52):
what I'm trying to sayis don't be hard on yourself.
To be like, this has to be the nails.
Yeah. You know,you can try different things.
You can move into different areasand don't feel like,
oh, by the time I'm 25,this is what I should have accomplished.
Oh, by the time I'm 30,this is what I should have done
or this is where I should be,because that's where everyone else is.
(48:14):
By the time data don't compare,everyone's got a different journey.
We're going to do an awkwardsign off now.
Do we have to say anything? Oh, no.
You got to just say like.Thank you.
Amazing. Thank you so much.
No worries.
Sorry i’ll do that again, that was so bad.
That was so fake.
That's sort of really stereotypical ideaof an apprentice.
You're making the tea.You're making the coffee.
As soon as I'd got on the system
got used to what software we’re usingyou’re just straight into the job.
I'm Erin, I am a talent attraction managerat Forvis Mazars.
I'm Holly Slater i’m the early careerspartner at Jisc
My name is Owen, I work at Jisc.
I'm a digital marketing apprentice,but I finished the summer just gone.
(00:22):
My name is Matthew Farrow.
I'm an apprentice quantity surveyor working for Gleeds.
Welcome to Future You,
the student and careers advice podcastbrought to you by Prospects.
We help you choose the right degree,find the perfect career, and transition
smoothly into life after study FromA-level results to starting your new job,
(00:43):
we're with you every step of the wayon your journey to future you.
So I guess to beginwith, is it still a myth,
or is it
true thatpeople look down on apprenticeships
true thatpeople look down on apprenticeships
compared to the formal educationuniversity route?
I think that's changed completely.
I think that was the case many years ago,and I think it's really changing
(01:05):
because the value of apprentices,all the statistics and research show,
that apprentices take more time,take more investment,
but actually are a bigger resourceto the firm
because they're more likely to staywith your organisation longer term.
So actually,you're building your future workforce
in a way that graduates are a little bitmore mobile.
They tend to jump around between jobs.
So do school leavers
(01:26):
who've done apprenticeships,but they're likely to stay longer.
So actually people are viewing itas an opportunity to really think
about growing your talent and growingyour leadership teams in 10, 20 years.
Who you recruit now.
And I also think the skills have changedso dramatically.
I think previously apprenticeshipswere in more vocational skills.
And so it was seen as,oh, this is what you do,
if you don't want to go to university.
(01:47):
I actually think it's just being seenas an alternative to university now.
there's, are there still different typesof apprenticeships.
You've got the degree apprenticeships.
You've got your vocational apprenticeship.You've got your different levels.
So you can do level two, three, four five.
Level 6 is degree equivalent and Level7 is a Masters equivalent.
So you've really got that rangeand you can start and build up.
It's not as if
(02:07):
if you go into a Level 4 apprenticeshipthat is you that kind of steer.
But it also means that if you're not surewhat you want to do, you can start there,
build up your skills and expertise.
And then if you decide actually,this is what I want to specialise
in, you can work up to thatin the same way.
And some people are always like,oh, it has to be a Level 7.
I don't even think that's the casebecause it depends on what you want to do.
(02:28):
So I studied French and journalismat university
and like actually to be a journalist,you do not need a university degree.
You need the skills of being ableto speak to people and being able to write
things compellingly and factually,report or give your opinion.
You can do an apprenticeship
in journalism now because actuallythat makes more sense in those skills.
But you don't need a degree equivalentto do that necessarily.
(02:50):
So it's all about the roleyou're doing as well.
And so from the employer's point of view,
I feel like even five years ago
it felt likeeverybody needed a degree to get a job.
Is it now?
Are we starting to see job applicationsthat are more
an apprenticeship equivalent?
Absolutely.
And I think that's the thing is, it usedto be that your degree was currency
(03:11):
didn't matter what the subject,in the same way it was that currency,
that entry into the dooror yes, step in the door.
I think now it's very muchactually it's the skills
because everyone has a degreenow it's the skills that are focused on.
And actually when you're doing thatLevel 7 equivalent,
it's the equivalent to a degree.
Or you can get a degree apprenticeshipfor this.
(03:32):
Mazars offer a Level 7which is a degree equivalent.
They are fully qualified accountant.
They're the exact sameas someone who finishes
their degree, comes and joins us, doesa three year course and then qualifies.
But this person's doing it at 21. Yeah.
And employers I think are looking moreand more those skills.
And then the qualifications that back it.
But when you look at entry requirements
(03:54):
things have changedreally dramatically as well.
I think it's a lot more inclusivein a lot of workplaces.
It's no longer looking atyou need these UCAS requirements. Yes,
some places have them and there's basicacademic requirements that are needed.
You know, thatC grade in Maths, English, etc.
but I think people are looking more aboutthose transferable skills and actually
your situation in you as a whole personrather than you as a set of data.
(04:17):
Yeah, completely.
And I think as well, onceyou've got your apprenticeship, it's
the equivalentof having any other qualification.
It's what you pull out from it.
So they're saying now that GenZ on average have 17 different
jobs,and 5 to 6 careers across their lifetime.
So I think about it.I started as a teacher.
(04:37):
I moved into early careers recruitment,and I've stayed there,
but I've also diversified into marketingand different things like that.
And again,
it's always been about those transferableskills and the story I tell with that.
And I think that's the samewith apprenticeships, is actually
what story
you wanted to tell, how you wantedto build on that experience,
what are you wanting to take from itand move with it?
And I think that's the key thing with themis that it's a qualification.
(04:59):
Like any of the qualification.
And I think when you hear the wordapprenticeship, you're like,
oh, well,this means I'm pigeonholed into this.
It absolutely doesn't.
It's the same as having a an A-levelin something or a BTEC or a degree.
It's just a different levelof qualification. Yeah.
Yeah that makes sense.
so I would say the most commonmisconception about apprenticeships is.
People tend to think that they may not be,
(05:23):
as academic or as highly regarded
as going to university,which is absolutely not the case.
I mean, at Jisc, we,we offer both apprenticeship
and graduate schemesbecause we see the value of both, So
there's no real differencein the quality of apprenticeships
(05:44):
versus degrees.
But I think there'sjust this stigma around them.
So another one would be that, peoplethink apprenticeships are only for people
who finish school or that kind of agerange, which again, is not the case.
I know the government
are doing a lot to encourageyounger people to go into apprenticeships,
(06:06):
but they're also a fantastic opportunityfor people to reskill in different areas.
And at Jisc, again,
we have many people who are still inapprenticeship alongside their permanent
full time role because they're wanting,as I said, to either reskill
or maybe even develop the current skillsthat they got even further.
(06:27):
So I think, age is often,a misconception that things, as well.
Yeah. Oh, brilliant.
The misconceptionthat apprenticeship’s an easy ride
because I feel like I get the impressionsometimes of people that haven't done one.
And it's what I hearall the time about when I did one, is that
like, oh, it's too good to be true.
It's it's easy then because like,your degree is paid for, you getting paid,
(06:49):
but like, that's sort of like the on paperelements of it and not like that.
Not really the full picture because it'slike affecting you as a person.
So and I think many people quite mentionhow tough it can be.
Yeah.
Obviously there's periodswhere you're like, this is amazing.
Getting paid like, degrees paid for.
Look at everyone else paying off thestudent debt But, on the other hand is.
(07:12):
Yeah, it's too good to be true.
It is true sometimes.
But on this part of it where you're like,
oh my God, this is so full on, like,I've got so much uni work to do.
I've got so much work to do.
How am I going to do this?
But yeah,I think highlighting the fact that
if you're going to
do a degree apprenticeship,be ready to work hard. Be ready to graft.
(07:32):
No, there’s, nothing's going to get put ona plate for you is up to your productivity
and your time managementto get to where you want to be.
One of the pros arguably for universityis the like uni life aspect of it.
And that's definitely changedover the past like ten years even
do you feel you're missing outon any thing that that offers
the campus life, the like,the party side, the social side?
(07:55):
I think not once again, downto what you make of it and like making
the most of it because you could go to unibut then sort of
isolate yourself in study or just sort ofgo back to your dorm and not do much.
But then I know with me on mine,we would often hang out with our friends
in the class and we'd go for drinks,go for food after uni.
So I think it's what you make of iteither way.
(08:16):
So I think
just because you go down traditional uni,
it doesn't mean you'll makethe most of your social life there
because you might take it for granted.
Whereas I think
you form quite, quite closebond with your class in a
degree apprenticeship, especially or even on Level 4, Level 3
apprenticeship because you're all workingtowards the same goal and you,
you’ve all got jobs.
(08:38):
You're all learning different skills,learning how to be in a corporate job,
maybe.
So I think you sort of bond,like, closer and quicker.
I found. And you meet people of all agesbecause all ages can do apprenticeships.
So I think that uni is sort of aroundthe same age group, mainly traditional
route, whereas
people of all ages in my class.
And you can sort of see how the trajectorythey've gone down and learned mistakes
(09:02):
and and learn lessons.
I think. Yeah,I think you definitely don't lose.
So if you want the social lifefrom doing a degree, apprenticeship
or any apprenticeship, you can have it.
You just maybe have to try a little bitharder than if you're on campus all day.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I sometimes I sit, and I think, oh, I wish I’d gone to University
(09:22):
I wish I'd,you know, see that side of life
because most peopleyou ask about university
they’re like, it was the best,best three, five years of my life.
Sometimes you'd be like,am I missing out on that?
And naturally you are going
to feel like you are missing outbecause the social life at university
is really fun, butit can also be quite relentless as well.
You know,as you know, people go to university,
to probably barely ever see a lecturerbecause they're too busy recovering.
(09:46):
But no, Idefinitely agree with your points on that.
You can easily have that social lifein the apprenticeship.
Like I go out after work plenty of times
almost every Thursday,sometimes with my team.
And I think if you work in a team all dayand you're all working towards that
mutual goal and you succeed at that goaland you celebrate with work drinks,
(10:06):
I think that that sense of communityand that sense of what team is
you can't get that at university,you can't get that with many things.
You know, if all work togetherand then you all celebrate together
and then you're onto the next task.
There's no there's no slowing down.
It's always on to the next task. So.
Yeah, well,sometimes I do feel like i’m missing out.
But again, for me personally, it'sdefinitely more of like my social life.
(10:28):
I like the balance, I like working hardand also having the opportunity to go out,
enjoy it. And also you,
you'vegot a bit more money in your pocket.
You can go probably to nicer places.
No, not not some of the places that youprobably get stuck in at university.
But yeah, that you’re just there because it's cheap,you can go to nice places,
do nice things.
(10:51):
What's one piece of advicethat you would give to somebody who's
torn between going down the universitypath or the apprenticeship path?
It's not necessarilythat one is better than the other.
So, you know, you can take that outof your consideration straight away.
They're both very different choices.
I would say listen to your instinctand try not to be pressured
(11:13):
by what other peopleare telling you to do.
This is your decision.
And if it is university,it could be three years, could be four.
If you do a, Masters or a year abroad.
Same with an apprenticeship.
If it's a Level 6 or above it could be four years.
(11:34):
That's a long time to spenddoing something that you don't enjoy,
or that you feel likeyou've been pushed into.
So when you're looking at both optionsand you're a little bit torn
write a pros and cons list,get all of the information down
about what you think is beneficialof doing an apprenticeship
and what's not, and also what's,
(11:57):
beneficial of doing a university,going to university
and not and really helpingthat to decide, for you.
Because as I say,it's it's a long time to do something
where your passion isn't thereso just make sure
that at the end of the day,it's your choice and you're happy with it.
Because that's the most important thing.
(12:18):
So what made you choose the apprenticeshiproute in the first place?
I mean, without sounding cliche, at,there were so many advantages
to an apprenticeshipthat I just couldn't ignore.
So obviously the lack of debt, the experience,sort of career progression
that you can get without
going to universityby the time most people finish university,
we've got the same amount of experience,well we’ve got experience
(12:40):
that they wouldn't have had in, years,which is just, yeah, to me.
And I just want a hands on role.
Yeah.
That allow me to work and studyat the same time.
And whilst it is quite a lot,
it's.
Yeah, it's really good.
Yeah.
I think, like during school and college,it wasn't really on my mind to go down
the traditional route going to uni,but I looked at like the
(13:03):
financial aspect of it and like the debt. I just thought the apprenticeship
route suited me more because I didn'tinitially want to go to university.
Then with the finances on top,someone had mentioned it to me in college,
and like a lot of people,I originally thought it was
sort of the hands on apprenticeships.
So the engineering sort of that line.
But then when I looked on
different websites,
(13:23):
I realisedthere's quite a lot of industries
and I just saw it applyingand after that, yeah.
So obviously when you were applying
for your apprenticeships,was there anything that you were like?
Because obviously probably similar to mewhen I first started five apprenticeships,
even before I did this one,I did a different apprenticeship.
Yeah. And I didn't really know what Iwhat to do.
So was like,was this something you want to do
or like an area that you want to workin? Yeah.
(13:44):
So originally I actually mainly didsort of product design
and graphic design in college.
And then upon searching onlike apprenticeship websites,
government website, I quickly realizedthere wasn't money out there
that was either a graphic designer jobtitle or a product designer job title.
So that's when I did some researchand found out what roles they can sort of
(14:04):
go into in a wider area,and I came across marks and and as soon as
I popped that keyword in on the websites,instantly there was roles.
Yeah.
So you saw I've got to know the marketin a way and know what?
And then as soon as I went on the marketin apprenticeships,
I realized a skill setwas actually my skill set.
I was just sort of naive and youngerat the time.
I didn't know what job titles wereand what the market was,
(14:26):
and as soon as I did,the search completely changed.
I went from 1 to 2 roles to 20 to 30.
Yeah, yeah. No.
What about you?How did you decide what you wanted to do?
So prior to my current apprenticeship.
Now, I did apprenticeship in sales for ayear, but in the construction industry.
So I worked in sales of concrete.
And whilst that role definitelywasn't for me
(14:46):
in terms of the role,the sales side of it, no,
not really my type of role, but again,similar to you, it was like my first.
I'd just finished collegeand I was like, right,
I need to get myself an apprenticeship.
So it was kind of gota few different offers in different roles.
But I landed on the sales one.
And then, yeah, that made me realizeI want to work in construction.
So off the back ofthat looks into different roles.
(15:08):
If you've got project managementor conscious of any sort of
two of the main roles within constructionand I thought lots
and thought concepts of being more,okay, it's a my skill set.
So what was the application process like?
So it was a bit probably a bit differentto what the normal conventional route
(15:29):
is, where you probably got like three,four months.
You apply, you go to maybe like a whatthey called like assessment centre.
Yeah.
You go to an assessment center,and a native
the back of thatyou'll have another interview.
And off the back of that, you know,it can be quite a vigorous process.
But for me, for the companyI currently work for, sort of lays on
a bit of other advice is like,it's never it.
(15:51):
Obviously there's periodswhere you've got like
start of the year where it'sgood to apply for apprenticeships,
but for me, it was quite short notice.
It was like, right,
I had a few different coursesof eight offers,
but I knew they weren't ready for me.
So I've found leads, applied within
about a week of applyingthe best for me, saying, well, what?
You come innext week to do a presentation,
(16:11):
pick one of our projects,do a presentation on it.
And then literally did that.
So it went quite well. Didn't hear back.
And then I was on the way, on holiday, got a phone call from Leeds
and they went, yeah.
We were like,yeah, we want to review what, the role.
So yeah, for me it was a no brain.
A second I got our phone callaccepted on the spot of a and it was
(16:33):
amazing.
What about you and your applicationprocess?
I was I was just relentless, really.
I was, like, going all year long.
And it got to the pointwhere I was applying for that money.
The I couldn't tell which
email or phone call was about which one,but that was sort of the mindset I was in.
I was just relentless go in
and not sort oflike putting all your eggs in one basket.
And I feel like that's how I started.
(16:54):
I was on apply for one onI leave the process, I think, okay, I'm
waiting to hear back from that one.
But I quickly realized it can take months.
It can take two three months
depending on how long away they arefrom actually hiring.
So I applied for,
I just got apprenticeship, andI just got a phone call about probably.
Yeah, about a month later.
(17:14):
So once again, it's quite a whileafter you initially apply.
And they said, I've got the role.
And I think consideringI was probably slightly underqualified
and the fact that I was sort of,getting offered interviews and stuff, it
it does showit's not just about the hard skills,
it's about the soft skills,how you perform in the interview.
And mine was just, online interview,
(17:36):
I'm pretty sure it was only one interview,but it was quite an intense interview.
And you did need to do company researchextra.
Sort of, especially because I was supposeslightly underqualified.
So justify your skills a bit more and
they're a bit more creative.
As you know, you've not black and white
got like the elementsyou knew, like the grades, etc..
How did you stay motivated in these gapsin this long
(17:58):
period of the application process?
Were you workingor were you just like refreshing?
Yeah.
So I was working at the time
purely to stock my CV for like the rolesI was applying for.
I'd kind of say like maybe a bit cliche,a lack of motivation,
but it was more disciplineand it was motivation.
So regardless of my moodthat day, I had to apply.
(18:21):
It was sort of like,it was it became just like ritual.
Like I was like a habit.
Every morning I check every time.
If you're on a bus, on a train,passenger in a car.
It's literally thought of what it waslike for me.
And obviously the market has changed a lotover the last few years,
but I think they areand they are competitive.
So I think you've got to beyou can't sort of like apply yourself
(18:44):
when you when you feel like it,when you're in the mood for it.
It's the role you like.
Might not be therewhen you're in the mood.
So it's got to beit's got to be relentless.
So I was doing every day downtimeor lunches before work sat in the car.
Yeah.So almost like a part time job. Yeah.
It essentially took over more brainpowerthan my actual job was taken over.
(19:04):
But that was because I knewhow competitive when I saw striving for it
was. It was literally just a sort oflike a milestone job to get me to that.
So yeah,
I kept that in the back of my mind,the UN in this to get this apprenticeship.
So that's what I'm working towards.
how can an applicantmake their application stand out?
(19:24):
making sure that onethey read the entire job description
and everything that we kind of askfor within there.
So any entry requirementsand stuff like that,
just making sure that they fit the brief,
they don'thave to meet all of the criteria,
but just making sure that,you know, like 50 plus percent is matched
and then also makinguse of showcasing their
(19:46):
physical
or technicalskills as well as their soft skills.
I think a lot of people forgethow to present soft skills in the CV,
especially if they don't have necessarilyany formal work experience.
But what I would always recommendis including any extracurricular clubs
you've been part of, if you've been partof a sports team or played a sport.
(20:08):
Making sure you list that as well as,
any school clubs.
So for example, in school clubs, sports,extracurricular activities,
you'll probably be using, communicationskills,
you'll be using the team buildingskills, building rapport with people,
building resilienceespecially if you play a sport.
(20:28):
So make sure you include thatin your applications
because that's going to showcasesome of the skills that actually employers
are looking for,as well as those kind of technical skills
or I suppose the qualificationspeople want to see as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's waysto stand out in a good way.
(20:48):
And there's also waysthat you can stand out in a negative way
during the application process.
And one of the things I wanted to kind ofdiscuss is I.
Yeah. And that is quite a hot topic.
And recruitmentand applications at the moment.
And I'm not saying don't use I,
I'm not against the I think it's a really,really helpful tool.
But what I would say is just checkif a company has a policy on AI.
(21:12):
I know some companies, for example,encouraging applications.
Othersexplicitly say, please don't use it.
So I just say, you know, respectthose company
wishes and, you know, if that worksfor you, great, apply for them.
But if you really love AIand want to put that in your application,
then maybe if a company restricts that,it might not be worth for you.
(21:34):
But when I say it can makeyour application stand out in a bad way.
Well, I'm referring tois basically getting AI to write your CV,
which unfortunately we do see.
And when we do see,it's really, really clear and obvious. So
althoughAI is a really, really good technique
and software to use,is it in the right way.
(21:58):
So, you know, there's no harmin putting a job, advert into AI in sin.
Can you showcase all of the,
qualificationsthat you would need to apply for this job?
Or can you explicitly tell me which keyskills that are really looking for?
And then you can make sure that you're
hitting all of the marksyou need to when applying for that,
(22:21):
for that role as well,using it for application processes.
So for example, interviews,if you've got an interview coming
up, by all means put the company detailsin that, ChatGPT or whatever
are you using and say,I've applied for this role,
please can you come up with five questionsthat I might get in the interview?
And that's a really good wayof preparing yourself for an interview,
(22:44):
using AI in the right way as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because can they tell, like,not only is it obvious that this
has been written by AI, but
a lot of recruitmentnow can run it through a system
that immediately is just like,yeah, this was 90% AI.
Yeah. So some some companies do differ.
Some will actually use like techniqueswhere they'll find AI.
(23:07):
But it can be quite trickybecause I've heard some people who were
potentially neurodiverseor have a certain writing style
can be picked up as using the AIwhen actually, yeah, I haven't.
It's just their writing style.
So, it's not always that, but it's just
when you read a CVthat's clearly submitted,
(23:27):
just solely using the AI, where theyhaven't even checked whether it's American
spelling or any mistakesor anything that just reads in human,
it just means that the company don'tactually
know who they're goingto be potentially employing.
They're not seeing the real candidate.
And it can potentially showcasesome areas
(23:50):
where you may notnecessarily have the skills that arises
how to say
like maybe fluffed up a little bitand in your, in your application.
So it's, that's the kind of main reasonwhy I would say
stay away from using it as a toolfor just writing.
Yeah.
The CV, by all means,if you want to use it to write a section
(24:12):
and then take it away and go, right,how can I make this more me?
How can I add in what I want to say?
That sounds robotic.
It hasn't actually caught the passionor drive that I really have.
How do I add Dean?But that's fine as well.
But always, always checkthe company policy whether they have one.
think that's where people fall downis I'm going to get AI to do it,
(24:33):
use it as a tool.
It is a tool. But when people then use it,
everyone'sgetting very similar applications.
So now it's how can you stand out?
And that is the interview piecebecause people are looking at you
as an individual and it's those skills,and it doesn't have to be it.
Because I think one thing where
when the AI conversation comes up,it's like, great.
So the extroverts are going to win.
Yeah, I'm thinking that.
But actually not always the casebecause I think actually
(24:55):
the power is those introvertedprofessionals who can communicate.
It's not all about one communicationstyle as well.
What's the biggest mistakethe applicants make?
So I would sayone of the biggest mistakes.
And it is so, so simple is not researchingthe company before applying.
I'm not saying you need to have,you know, cliff notes on
(25:16):
every single companyyou're going to be applying for
because there's probablygoing to be quite a few.
And I think companies understandyou're not putting all of your eggs
in one basket and you're not onlyapplying for that role, but
try to
understand a little bit about whatthe company do,
maybe some of their key services,what's important to them.
(25:39):
As I said, you don't have to spend hoursand hours trying to research company,
grab the website, pop it in ChatGPT
AI and just say, can you give me ten facts
about this company or, what their key services are?
And then you've got that informationto hand so you can find out
(26:00):
a little bit more about themor you can use those
to ask questions at at interview level.
But showing that interest in the companyreally shows that you're actually wanting
that job and you're not supplying for itfor the sake of applying.
And it really helps uswhen we're at interview stage
(26:22):
and we're trying to whittle downthe best candidates,
those that have shown interest in us
and why they want to work for ustend to stand out a little bit
more than those who, when we ask them,what do you know about to ask?
And they say,
I, I don't know.
And it really, really helps the other, to stand out.
(26:44):
And as well, you want to be interestedin where you're going, to work,
you don't want to show up day in, day outand not
enjoy the company you're working for.
once you've researchedthe company as well,
you might find thatthey have similar values to you.
And that will really help youto connect to that company.
And that will showcase in your passionwhen you apply for a job.
(27:08):
So if, you know, for example,one of our core
values is always inclusive.
So, you know,
having that inclusive environmentthat's going to mean a lot to some people.
So when they're applyingand that's what they're applying for,
then they're going to be ableto showcase their passion,
why they want to work for GSK,and that's going to help them stand out
(27:31):
against other peopleObviously when you study at university
you don't get paid to do thatand you pick up a part time job.
The whole idea of an apprenticeshipis that you earn while you learn. Yes.
What? How much?
how much on.
And do you know what?
It's a really hard one to answer becausedifferent companies pay different things.
It depends on how you're breakingthe study and those earning
(27:54):
as well on average.
And it is very much on average acrossAct, apprentices are looking at anywhere
between 17,000 and 20,000 poundswhen they start off.
So it is a lower salary.
However, the way I always think about it
is I think about four optionsat the moment.
So a school leaveapprenticeship is four years.
At the end of those four yearsthey're qualified chartered accountant,
for example.
(28:15):
Someone does a degree,they've got those three years
of non earningsand then they have a three year course.
So one year into that graduate program
the school leaver is fully qualifiedwhich means they're on a higher salary.
So yes, graduatesdo start on a higher salary.
But that potential when you think about itas a school leavers, actually,
by the time I'm 22,I will be a fully qualified
(28:38):
chartered accountant,which means my earning potential
rockets.
And also, once you qualified,that salary goes up.
I mean keeps going up
and your progression is quickerbecause by the time you're 25,
you've actually got seven yearsexperience versus a grad who has 3 or 4,
Because also as a graduateand obviously everyone's
financial situation is different,but most graduates graduate
(29:00):
and your salary does not goas far as you think
because student loansare taking part of it.
And as you like.
Progress and your salary goes up, theytake just a little bit more each time.
So no, I guessactually You got to pay in Greece.
You don't need six.
It's all going to UK,
And I also think looking at the companies
and looking at what they offer,because if you're doing an apprenticeship,
yes, you're on that apprenticeship,you're doing that learning.
(29:21):
But what if I learn and developan offer outside of that?
So we've got LinkedIn learning,and I know that I've sat next
to someone in the office this morningwho was actually doing a Python, LinkedIn
learning session,
their their second year of order.And they're like,
I just think it'd be quite usefulfor like upcoming client work.
And I just needed a break.
I've just finished exams.
I just needed somethingjust outside the day to day
(29:42):
and have now a lotfor learning development.
I thought Python on LinkedIn learning.
I was like, cool,I need to just go on Instagram.
Yes, yes, an additional yearI watch Netflix, you do, you.
Wow. Wider offering as well as like,what are you getting access to,
what are the benefitsat that firm as well?
Like, I don't know if you go to the gymregularly.
(30:03):
you're getting discounted gym benefits,does that impact your salary as well?
So it's looking at itin that bigger picture as well.
I think is is really important.
Like one place I workedhad a Diet Coke fridge.
It saved mehundreds like little things like that,
a Diet Coke fridge?, Diet Coke fridgejust like Diet Coke on tap?
Essentially just always refilled.
(30:24):
always. Just diet?No, they also had Coke Zero.
Full fat.
Just whatever your Coke preferenceand a very nice coffee machine.
The amount of moneyI actually saved by having that.
And I knowit sounds like a really silly benefit.
The amount of money I spend on coffeeand Diet Coke.
On top of everything else,that was good from what you were getting.
Yeah, I think it's.
Yeah, it's giving like,oh, have you seen our ping pong table?
(30:46):
But also like take me to the Coke fridge
I will live next to it and I will be help myself all the time
and I will save myself around £25 a week. Yes.
I think it's looking at the wider packageas a whole of like,
well, when in development,do they offer how many days annual leave.
All of those things painta bigger picture as well.
And I think that's key is
(31:07):
if you do an apprenticeship,you've got so many options like
it's a great timeto be looking at apprenticeship
because there are
so many different opportunitiesthat you really can be quite selective,
and really think, this is what I'm lookingfor and therefore I'm going to do it.
Yeah, amazing.
I’m obsessed with this coke fridge.
I’m like, how do I..Who do I send an email to? HR?
(31:28):
@HR, please can we have coke fridge please?
So let's focus in on that worklife balance.
Like what tips and tricks do you have?
I'd say one thingI haven't quite mastered yet.
But advice I'd definitely giveis give yourself enough time.
Do you do uni assignments?
Because you could say, oh, I'll do it,then I'll give myself,
(31:51):
I'll give myself a weekbefore to do my uni assignment,
but that might be, you know,something might happen on site.
I'll work then.
That week is then taken upbecause you have to prioritize that,
because that means dealingwith your relied upon to deal with that.
So from there,yeah, you just give yourself enough time.
If you've got downtime saying,say an hour or two
or you've got some time on the weekend,I would say do uni work.
(32:11):
And also, again, you probably wouldn't
know thisuntil you start a degree apprenticeship.
But yeah, one can seem like, oh,this is the reason me and it's quite easy.
This this world isn't.Go towards the final right.
This is on the first off.
Why do we need to work with a lot?
Use it very soon.
Very quickly.
It gets from. Okay, right. Well,you're in uni now.
You've got a yearbeing a quantity surveyor.
In my case,you're going to market in your case.
(32:34):
Now it's time, you know, show me whatyou've learned last year, then ramp it up.
And all of a sudden it does start goingtowards your final grade
and you get a bit of a slapin the face of reality of going
this, you've all start working.
I'll be like, it's timeto, you know, don't give yourself a week
to do assignment.
Give yourself a second to get set,you know, so you plan Fridays.
Afternoons are going to be spentdoing a little bit of that.
(32:54):
And yeah, just organizing your timeto the best of your ability
and yeah, be in control of itthough I lose control.
do you really find thatyour time is like crunched
or is it just like about prioritizingthings.
Yeah.
Prioritize and thingsI've recently started getting a list.
And also one key piece of adviceI would give someone is
I'm very easily distracted by things, soI might be doing a task in an email call.
(33:18):
Mystery.
All of a sudden I forget about thattask. An hour later I've come back to it.
I've got ten minutes to do it.So I wanted an hour ago.
So if you're doing something, especiallyif it's, you know, for a client,
finish it,
finish a task and then do the next taskafter obviously this urgent take on that.
But like if it's.
Yeah,but also prioritize your time. Yeah.
I was going to say that like,
(33:38):
a big element for me was having a hobbyduring my apprenticeship.
So it sounds unrelated,but I found that, like,
I would lean on my hobby quite a lotbecause,
like we say, saying that you're in workall day, then you might even be doing
2 to 3 hours of,apprenticeship work, sometimes after it.
So then either that night or the next dayyou have a break and you go, go.
(34:00):
And completely different from your career,go and do a hobby.
You go and often I think you have to.
I had a study routine of,like I'd go climbing like a climb
3 to 4 times a weekand that would sort of keep me going,
knowingI'd have breaks in between work and study.
And just no one has a cut off.
So if you're on a Sunday doingsort of uni work and you've got,
(34:22):
or college work and you've got work on
on Monday, on and done, just knowingwhen to call it quits, basically.
So like Sunday afternoon, just say
all of that is like a protected areawhere I don't do any work.
I don't do call it work.
I think
building that like habit from day one,I think I didn't do that from day one.
It taught me till year twoto realize how important that was.
(34:43):
And then I think it's quite employer dependent,
because those people in my class thatdidn't do any work are in their own time.
So they didn't do any work and hours on.
They builtit all worked in with their employer.
But it depends on the size of companyhousing you are.
It's so dependent. Heavily.
Yeah, it can change quite a lotthroughout the like a degree.
(35:04):
Apprenticeship can be 4 to 5 years.
A level three could be 18 months.
So things can change.
Hobbies can change,your interest can change.
But I think having something
that you're interested in outsidea professional is important.
And I think it'swell off the back of that.
If it is getting too much for you,
genuinely communicatelike no one wants you.
You employ enough.He doesn't want you to sit there.
(35:25):
Yeah,you know, tear in your heart thinking,
oh my God, I've got so much to do.Just communicate.
Say, look, I really, really, reallycan't take on all this work at the moment.
And I've what I've also learnedis the art of no sometimes and no
is just as powerful as a yes.
Because if someone asks youto do something
and you've got a list,as long as you're out of to do,
you know,just because you're an apprentice
doesn't meanyou have to say yes to everything.
You know you're already taken on a lot.
(35:46):
So yeah, learn to be numb.
Maybe not of nobleart of managing your time.
Yeah.
It's okay to be like no or don't say noto say, look, I can do that for you.
But maybe in a week or two weeksor three weeks and then at least
just on a realistic time spanand don't over promise and under deliver.
So yeah, obviouslywe're in a similar situation.
(36:07):
Well I'm probably doing my pension.You finished it.
What's the best piece of adviceyou could give someone now?
Maybe not even just notmaybe not even apply for apprenticeships.
Maybe someone is duringtheir apprenticeship.
Now, what would you say to look?
I'd to say for me,it was lying and being habitual.
So fall in the habits from day one.
And if it's not from day one, form it assoon as you come Monday morning and don't
(36:30):
then sort of postpone the thing.
So, like you say about the assignments,will get harder.
So if you build the habit from day oneor as early as you can of
like not leaving it till the day before,not leaving it till week.
Week one,then it’ll sort of have a domino effect.
Whereas if you've got in the habit of sortof like leaving stuff
sporadic and then by the time you get tothat final year,
(36:50):
it's too late to break the habit.
You feel your lifestyle around that.
So I think, yeah, don't let it stock up.
Because like I was saying in yearone, the assignments or the tasks
you've been given might seem quite easyand they might seem sort of below you
Yeah,but then out of nowhere they'll go up.
So if you've not got that foundation of
time and frequencyand like sort of your habits,
(37:11):
then it could have a domino effectfurther down.
Yeah.
And I'd say, to answer my own question.
I think I said thison the webinar recently and
I think
one of the thingsthat doesn't get spoken about enough is
being able to be yourselfand work and demonstrate
your personality, because there's so muchemphasis nowadays on company culture.
And yeah,when we want you to be part of our family
(37:33):
and it can get a bit tiring where you arequoted as culture or even mean.
But I think to meculture means being part of a
being working for an employer whereyou can totally be yourself, and that
then at least
you're not putting on a frontwhen you go to work and thinking,
oh, I've got to be someone elsefor the next eight
hours, you can be yourselfand you're appreciated for that.
(37:53):
That is so important to your work.
And yeah, it makes you enjoy your worka lot more.
So just demonstrate your personality.
Don't be scared to just the, I wasgoing to say I like to do that as well.
I found when I joined,that wasn't a true apprenticeship and,
like, graduate scheme here.
So there wasn't a lot of young peopleI was around.
And that was the biggest.
Or I say it's the biggest shockwhen I started was the lack of light
(38:15):
representation my age.
And you often a lot around a lot of seniorpeople that you might not be used
to outside of your family talking to this,sort of age and like seniority.
So I think, like, I know in Jiscwe have like good networks of like, fine.
So if you're interested in, like what,what the film looks like,
we have, like anything in books,like there'll be other people
(38:37):
that have it interest or even if it's likewe have, like, the youth network here.
So you meet up with other people your ageand so I'll bounce off of that
in an apprenticeship.
All they've done onebecause it of seem daunting
when you're likethe young person in the room
and more like you're
the only one that sort of hasthe same sort of like, humor or anything.
It can.
So I think, like, just reach outeven if someone's not in your part
(39:00):
of the business,if the if you're saying, oh,
that's, that's another young manthat's my age,
like you might have same interests as you.
It's just forming bonds.
Where outside of your team.
It's good to makenot just have colleagues.
How three years likeyou can make friends at work.
That's really important.
Definitely make surehowever long you're on your friendship.
How long you have that company?A lot all year. Yeah.
(39:23):
Yeah.
And I find the irony is sometimesthat the people outside of your team
that you actually get on with, like on asort of like a to a level, on a friendly
level, saw the pressure of like,oh, this is my manager.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like it's.
obviously I'm quite closewith my line manager and the wider team,
but some people you hear, they’re likeah, I hate my line manager.
Yeah.Or,
(39:43):
I’ve not spoke to my line manager in monthshe doesn't care about me, so.
But he might be sat there thinking,
i’ve not heard from you in months either
So it's a two way street.
They're busy. They're full time job.
And another just bit of adviceto give someone.
Starting your apprenticeship.And working for a company is
what I find most rewarding.
One of the most rewarding things about
my job is helping apprenticesthat I've started, say, this year
(40:06):
I've done it for a year
now, so I've, I've like reached outto all the apprentices and you know,
that's so rewarding to be like thatalmost shoulder to lean on, you know,
how do I do.
What did you do for this part you unionsimagine you didn't have that
like that person you've been there forthem is really important I think.
Yeah.
Yeah I was very lucky with that with mine.
So in my team, my art Elliewho she'd done the same course as me.
(40:30):
So I was learning from her.
But I've actually gone backsince I've finished.
I've gone back to dotalks at uni and webinars.
Just because
I think you've got to be grateful,because I know when I was doing my,
degree apprenticeship,
there was people coming in to approve usstudents and helping also a lot.
So like return the favor basicallybecause their advice can't help.
(40:50):
So I just think mine come to and like,let's have a run with as well
because they've been there,they've sat there, it thought,
oh my God, it's Friday night,I've got an exam,
I've got a uni assignment for Monday thatthey've been that everyone's been there.
So have that. Just need to breathe a bit.
Just allow all this fellow stressI've had.
So yeah just find themrelationships is really important.
what would you saythe most challenging aspect of it is?
(41:13):
the most challenging aspectis definitely balancing
your time is is a lot,especially when you get poor.
In my case, I get put on a projectand I'm required to give my full time
to that project.
Obviously, the people that you work forhave to be understanding that
you have got university,
and that does have to sort of be equalto the priority you put on your work,
because we usually start feeling uninow that comes back.
(41:35):
And that'sjust not not what you want to start doing.
another challenge is dealingwith the pressure of,
you know, your employees got anexpectation of you, you need to meet nice.
But when they're putting some of their,
themselveson the line by giving you to a client.
So you need tothen make sure that you're doing
enough or exceeding the expectations.
(41:57):
And yeah. So that was quite challenging.
Yeah I'd say it's similar.
But for me it was morein terms of knowing which is priority.
I think I still go to that a lot.
So I just startand uni's sort of like Level 4
grades, like within your degree.
I found work was priority.
I was putting work first.
But then as the grades sort of ramp up,that's when you sort of,
(42:21):
you don't know which to prioritise.
And, you know, uni becomes a lot harder,a lot like really quick.
So that's when sort of the scalesnever gonna sort of be even 5050.
It will weigh.
And I think it depends what employeeyou've got.
It depends what role you've got.
Because although you're an apprenticeshipyou might have a slightly more
junior role.
Depends on the company isso I think for me
(42:43):
does the scale sort of changethroughout the apprenticeship
with which was priority, which was harder.
And I know in the final year of minethe the scale had to tip to uni
because the gradesand it was asking a lot more of me,
whereas I'd become seniorin my job placement, I was more confident
and I could sort of like, not have to focus on it as much.
(43:03):
So, yeah.
I think that changes for outan apprenticeship.
Yeah. Of course.
let's skip now to the end ofyou've completed your apprenticeship.
What happens next?
Are you guaranteed
to work within the companythat you've been an apprentice for?
What?
What does that end of the processlook like?
if I'm honest, it totally depends onwhere you're doing your apprenticeship.
(43:26):
So at Jisc we do offerfixed term contracts.
So you will comein, you will do your apprenticeship,
and then we will cometo the end of your apprenticeship
and have a look to see whetherthere is a permanent role in that area.
If there's not, we'll have a lookto see what other alternative options
there are within the company.
But we're also very supportive of people
(43:46):
who decide Jisc isn't for themand want to look elsewhere.
And we'll support them on that journeythrough that as well.
So it does depend company to company.
Some offer fixed term apprenticeships,some offer permanent ones.
It's potentially a good questionto ask an interview stage.
What kind of comes next,whether it's fixed term or permanent,
(44:09):
just so that you've got that understandingfrom the beginning.
What's what's on offer. But
if it is a fixed
term, Iwould say don't don't let that put you off
because you learn so much as partof the apprenticeship, it will really set
you up to have skills to go into that areaor even to go into the next stage.
(44:30):
And as well,you might find whatever company you go to.
It just doesn't align with your values.
You can change completely in two years.
You can have a complete lifestyle changeand not want to live in the same country
or something like thatand want to go and explore life.
So, you know,a lot of things can change in two years,
so being on a fixed term rather thana permanent is not always a bad thing.
(44:54):
I think it just gives you that opportunityto explore further options that
you may not have initially thought about.
And as well,if you didn't like the apprenticeship,
you don't have to go into a rolein that area as well.
So there's there's options there as well.
Will,you offered a fixed term apprenticeship
or a permanent apprenticeship?
So it was literally a contractfor the four years of the apprenticeship.
(45:16):
And then for a while,I had conversations at the employer around
what my role is like at the end,if I can get a role and, well,
a lot of apprenticeships,I don't know if mine.
It was a case of hands on budgetat the time.
It depends on performance,it depends on the business.
Can change a lot in four years.
So they said to me at the start,like we still
have to keep you on at the end,but we can't guarantee a budget.
(45:38):
So yeah, and I have got kept on.
So I got luckyand I asked, but moving on from that,
then let's say you have been offereda role within the company.
Are you then applicable to move upthe ranks like any other employee?
I love this questionbecause I, I don't necessarily
think careers should be linear.
I, I myself have had a bit of asquiggly career, and I fully support them.
(46:04):
Obviously,if you do come in as an apprentice
and you want to move up the ranks,that that's a possibility.
Within companies, obviouslythe roles might need to be there.
Or it might be a progression schemewhere you come in and
after every two years or something,you're promoted.
Companies do work differently,
but if that's an optionthat you want to tick, absolutely.
(46:25):
There's nothing stopping you from,
you know, being a senior leaderjust because you start as an apprentice.
As an apprentice. Sorry.
But as well, if you come in and decide,
I don't like this area,I don't necessarily like this team
or this company isn't is necessarilyfor me, then, you know,
(46:46):
there's that option to take a sidewaysstep and gone into a company and
stood in towardsan apprenticeship will mean
that you will get transferable skillsthat you may be able to take elsewhere,
or you may have built rapportor relationships with a different team
where you're thinking it's a similarline of work, but not exactly the same.
(47:07):
But I'd still like to explorethat afterwards.
So I would say, don't get your head
set on havingthat really linear progression.
Unless that's really important to you,
but be open to exploring different things.
I think when I, when I finisheduniversity, I just had this idea
(47:29):
that, I'd be in that kind of rolefor 30 years or whatever.
Like, I'd just move up and up and up.
And that's kind of how the world of work,worked.
Whereas now people finish in university
or people finish in schoolor college, whatever, they've got like
40, 50 years of work.
(47:52):
what I'm trying to sayis don't be hard on yourself.
To be like, this has to be the nails.
Yeah. You know,you can try different things.
You can move into different areasand don't feel like,
oh, by the time I'm 25,this is what I should have accomplished.
Oh, by the time I'm 30,this is what I should have done
or this is where I should be,because that's where everyone else is.
(48:14):
By the time data don't compare,everyone's got a different journey.
We're going to do an awkwardsign off now.
Do we have to say anything? Oh, no.
You got to just say like.Thank you.
Amazing. Thank you so much.
No worries.
Sorry i’ll do that again, that was so bad.
That was so fake.
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