Giants Extra Point | Giants vs. Lions Recap

John Schmeelk, Tiki Barber and Bob Papa break down the Giants' Week 12 loss to the Lions on Giants Extra Point.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Giants.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Extra point is brought to you by Citizens, the official
bank of the New York Giants.

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Citizens is made ready for Giant fans.

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Learn more at Moody's dot com. Well it took overtime
this time. The Giants at ten point lead in the

(00:33):
fourth quarter. Lions come back and tie the game on
the first or second playoff overtime? Was it first playoff overtime?
Up the middle to Jamior Gibbs roll sixty nine yards
for the touchdown. Giants drive down into Lions territory. Jameis
Winston gets sacked on a fourth down and ten and tiki.

(00:53):
The Giants fall to the Detroit Lions. In another familiar
road game. Script thirty four to twenty said, Look, it's
for the Giant fan. This feels so familiar.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's a different way of things playing out, but it
feels the same every single week. If this team just
doesn't know how to win football games and how to
finish football games. That's offensively, that's defensively, that's coaching, it's everything.
And you get you listen to Bob and Carl and
what they're talking about is the rotation and Dexter Lawrence.

(01:25):
Why is he not on the football field? And statistically
you could argue that they're actually better in the run
game with Dexter Lawrence off the field. I know you
looked up those stats, and we'll get to it. But ultimately,
this is about being gap sound defensively, it's about making tackles. Defensively,
this team is playing with inferior guys on the second

(01:47):
and third levels, and moments against good, good the better
teams in the league, and good teams like the Detroit Lions,
they're gonna best you on that. It's just there's just
it was inevitable that this was going to happen for
the Detroit Lions. Were they going to make some huge
plays because their players were better than the Giants defenders
at that time. And at some point we get to
the Dexter Lawrence conversation. I know that we'll be asked,

(02:10):
He'll be asked about this. I know that Shane Bowen
and Mike Kafka will be asked about this, But at
the end of the day, it's fundamentals. Man. You gotta
make the plays when they're available to you, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
A couple things wait here from Mike Kafkin in a second,
and I'm sure he will be asked about this.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
And I did look it up.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
According to EPA per play allowed per rush, giants are
slightly better with the decks off the field than on.
But again, the van stats can lie to you. One
or two big plays here or there can swing it right.
I was just curious to look at it. I wasn't
using it as a reason for why they did anything,
but Tiki, I think it is important to note that one,
if you give up a fifty and sixty yard run,

(02:45):
it's not because of what's happening on the defensive line.
It's because what's happening at the linebacker and the defensive
back level. That's number one and number two if you
are going to reduce Dexter Lawrence's snaps. And I did
not look at it at the end of the game.
I'll double check it now, but he was at about
fifty percent of the snaps. He's usually around seventy percent
of the snets. If you're gonna have that big of
a reduction in snap count number, I can't imagine that

(03:09):
falls under the purview of either Andre Patterson, the defensive
line coach, or the defensive coordinator. That is a larger
decision coming from up top.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
It feels like this is a Mike Kafka or even
above him decision about Dexter Lawrence, trying to keep him healthy.
We know this situation with dex He didn't keep it fresh,
by the way, I mean, we know the situation around
him regarding this offseason. Now that was a long time ago,
but for a three hundred and fifty plus pounder, this matters.
He didn't practice a ton in the offseason. He came
into training camp out of shape. Basically he hasn't He's

(03:41):
missed weight a bunch of times this year. We know
that he had to work himself back into playing shape
and get himself you know where he was a dominant player.
But ultimately it just feels like it hasn't caught up.
It hasn't become you know, the Dexter Lawrence that we've seen. Now,
with that being said, this rotation where you keep him
from rush has actually it's actually played some positive things

(04:04):
for him. He had a bunch of pressures early in
this game. A couple of those Darius Alexander sacks, he
was the influential one. There was a scramble where Jared
Goff had to move out of the pocket, ultimately got
called back because of a holding, but that was that
was on Dexter Lawrence creating the pressure interiorly right away.

(04:24):
So he's winning, and I think what feels like is happening.
Is it reserving him for these past rush situations and
don't want him in the game on those rundowns. And
I know Carl said this at the end, but he's right,
and he's right. The Detroit Lions know that. And so
you weren't seeing any outside zone. You weren't seeing any
of these gap schemes. When they ran the ball with

(04:45):
Jamir Gibbs, it was right up the gut. It was
double teams on those defenders that are going to get
moved and pushed back and create huge gaping lanes for
their elite running back Jamir Gibbs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
And on that last Lions drive of overtime when they
kicked and of course they make the fifty nine yard field.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Well, because it happens against the Giants.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Decks actually had a pressure on the first drop back
of that drive as well, which ended up forcing in
complete pass. So he and we have had situations at
the ends of some of these games where he hasn't
been getting that type of pressure late. So again we'reait
here from my Kafka in a second, and we'll see
what he has to say. That was today's game breakdown,
brought to you locally by Ford Want performance and capability
at every turn, get beyond the wheel of a New

(05:24):
four truck or SUV Ford Official Truck and SUV of
the New York Giants. Time out. We'll come back here
from Mike Kafka. That and all the noise and sound
from the locker room when we come back. Giants again
fall to the Lions in overtime thirty four to twenty seven.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
You're listening to Giants Extra Point on the WFAN Giants
Radio Network.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
We're back here on Giants Extra Point. John Schmulch Tiki
Barber Giants loser sixth straight. They fall to Detroit Lions
and overtime thirty four to twenty seven. An tiki heading
into this game we talked about the matchup that we
thought was going to be most important, and that was
whether or not the Giants were going to be able
to slow down and stop Jamir Gibbs.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
And they were not able to slow down or stop
or Gibs. It was methodical and then it was.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Explosive fifteen carries, two hundred and nineteen yards, a pair
of touchdowns. You mentioned it, two explosive touchdown runs also
in this game, had eleven catches for forty five yards.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah, this is two hundred and sixty four yards and
three touchdowns of just dominance from a guy who we
know is dangerous. And you know that that the weak
spot for the New York Giants they were going to
try to exploit. And we and we mentioned it before
in the opening segment, how a lot of those runs
were just inside zone or duo runs where you're getting
push on the offensive line, you create space so that
you allow your running back in this case, Jamiir Gibbs

(06:39):
get to the second level and then it's on you.
You have the safety Jamiir Gibbs. You break Dame Baitons
Belton's tackle, you go forty nine yards down to the
two yard line. Then you catch a pass on play
action in the flat for the touchdown on the next play,
and over time you just get an inside zone. It's
basically cover two, I believe. So safeties are wide, are

(07:00):
dropping thinking you're getting past game. There's nobody there. Essentially
was untouched. Everyone got blocked for sixty nine yards. He
was untouched. And if you're gonna allow that against the
best players, they're gonna burn you eventually. And got The
problem is, I don't know where you where you fix
that unless you're doing more stunting up front. You're you're

(07:20):
you're doing those TT games or et games, et cetera,
where you're creating something unfamiliar to the running back. You
just got to beat the blocks, and the Giants didn't
do that enough against this very good Detroit offensive front
and their running game. And you know, Tiki, if you
look at the overall team stats in this game, the
Giants finished this game with five hundred and seventeen yards

(07:40):
of O and they rush for over one hundred yards.
They threw for three sixty six actually more than that,
almost four hundred yards. They threw four because uh Osceewski's
thirty three yard touchdown to Jameis Winston counts in their
past game as well, so they were they were pretty
outstanding except for when they needed to go score.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well, here's the amazing part of it. Do you know
how many points they scored in the side alfter this game?

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Seventh? That's not enough. It is at halftime.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
If I would have told you the Giants would have
scored seven points in the second half, what would you
have said, They've.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Lose the game, of course, especially against this team.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
So that goes back to the decision, and Bob and
Carl talked about this end of the broadcast as well.
The Giants in the middle of the fourth quarter have
a great drive. They have it for almost seven minutes.
They go ninety three yards, They get it down to
the Detroit six yard line. Instead of kicking the field goal,
which would have given them at that point a six
point lead, they decide instead to go for it. They

(08:33):
failed to convert on that fourth down. Lions get the
ball back. And now we talked about this at the
time and both of us said, we've seen way too
many times the Giants defense have to stop a team
from scoring a touchdown and failed this year. So I
was in favor now it sucked that on the the
last play, I got pushed back to the six yard line.
So it's a little bit of a.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Tough question the play calling on second third down. But
I don't question the decision to question the decision to
go for it at all, because we know what would
happened you kick the field goal. Because it was so
much time left. It wasn't as if it was you
know that you're going to run out of time here
if you're the if you're the Detroit Lions, they were
going to go down the field, getting field goal range
and then score a touchdown and then lose, you know,

(09:14):
by by a point. So I think when you are
at the point that the Giants were going into this
game two to nine, you have to be aggressive. You
have to try to make that a two score game
so that you can end the ball with the with
the in the game, with the ball in your hands
on offense, if Detroit should go down and score point,
force them to have to kick the on side opportunity

(09:36):
to try to try to get the ball back and
get a game winning score. But I get it. The
defense did their job. They just kicked a fifty nine
yard field goal. Man like it is what it is.
It seems to happen to the Giants a lot where
teams just getting field goal range, they make it by
three yards, go into overtime and find a way to lose.
But that's just part of being a losing team in
the NTIG.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
The Giants only gave up ten points in the second
half of this game, I know, but it's actually not
that bad of a job.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
It's not at all. They and you know, the overtime
is what kills you, obviously, obviously, because the last thing
you need is to be down by seven from net
from jump and then now the pressure is all on
your offense and uh and Jameis Winston and that makes
said Carlbanks said something about the offense in that overtime drive.
He said, look, they're resilient, they are, and they are.

(10:23):
They fight, they they they grind, They get things done.
Jameis Winston running for fourth and ten, getting eleven yards
even though it was a defensive penalty, but he got
the first down and was able to, I don't know,
extend this thing and get down into scoring range, you know,
potentially taking a shot. You take a sack on fourth down.
That sucks because you hate to lose a game. It's

(10:44):
like two point conversions. The last thing you want to
do is take a sack on a two point conversion
when it's fourth down on the last play of the game.
You want to find a way to get rid of
the football. But that means they're resilient. They fight. It's
just they're just not good enough, as simple as that.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, and it's been that pattern so far this year,
unfortunately for the New York Football Giants.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
All right, let's take another time out. But first reminder.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Giants Football is brought to you by Verizon, the official
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most reliable network.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Giants fall to the Lions thirty four to twenty seven.
We return. We're gonna hear Mike Kafka from the podium.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Right after this, you're listening to Giants Extra Point on
the WFAN Giants radio network.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
We're back here on Giants Extra Point. John Schmelt, Tiki
Barber with you again. The Giants fall to the Detroit
Lions thirty four to twenty seven. Tiki, there were enough
positives to take out of this game. Jameis Winston played
as well, as you would have expected. Yeah, of course
you're playing a heavy man to man defense. In order
to beat a heavy man to man defense, what do
you have to do. You have to make big plays.

(11:42):
Let's get down to Mike caf get the post.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Coming out with the neck. You know, we'll see where
he's at. You know, I haven't had a chance talk
to him yet, but that was the one kind, the
one big one, Mike.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
You decided to knock you with your role.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Talk about the guys first to go four.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah, we you know, we we did want to be
aggressive this thought it was a good time to just
take points in that situation, go up two scores and
just you know, he had a good flow, you know,
wanted to just go up to his course. So Dex's
Dex's you know, he's battling for us.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
Man.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
He had a little bit, he had a little nick
with his uh, he got a little nicked for us.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
So he was you know, he was battling.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
He gave us everything he had for as many plays
as we possibly get him in there. But there was
a management part of that to make sure we can
maximize him in certain situations third downs things like that
where his past rush could be in effect. So he
wasn't out there for that first time. Absolutely, yes, absolutely,

(12:51):
with your finger.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
I wouldn't say it's the same old story.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
I think we had an opportunity at the end of
the game and you know, took a really good team
to overtime, and you know, we got to find a
way to finish those games.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
I really believe in our players. I believe in our coaches.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
They're battling their heart out, they're heard out for us,
and you know, just continuing to have that mentality, like
that aggressive mentality, and continue to ramp it up come
practice time this next week. You know, that's the only
thing we can look at right now, is all right,
where can we get better, where can we improve? Take
those take those little things, and let's really work on
this detail amount and make sure that doesn't happen again.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
So it was just been battling it like that throughout
the game. I think it kind of kind of flared
up a little bit.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
More on the fourth quarter.

Speaker 6 (13:37):
The game.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
The game, Yeah, we're just trying to score as many
points as possible and trying to win the game. So
if we're if we're going to be aggressive on fourth down.
That means that we like the play call like we
want to do. I think there's times in the game
where you just got to take that into consideration of
you know, when you want to kick a field goal,
when you want to go for a time. I thought

(14:01):
all game we had really good consensus and really good
communication with the entire staff, our game management crew on
when we want to be aggressive and be calculated, when
we can go for fourth downs and take shots at
the end zone. Yeah, that that factors into it, for sure.
You know, that definitely factors into it. And you know

(14:22):
where where we're out of the field, you know, you're
all of a sudden, now you're whatever fourth and goal
from the six. You know, maybe just our decision was
I thought a correct one.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
I was.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
I stand by it, and you know we took points
to go up ten points.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
Later in the game. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, No, like you just take you just take every
situation within itself that one play. You focus on where
we're at in the game for that. You don't try
to make decisions based on previous previous plays or results.
So we just we went with our went with our
the numbers and what we felt confident in that situation.

Speaker 5 (15:05):
For that play. What did you see those.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Off the look off to look at the tape, you know,
I'm talking with the offense, and obviously I saw the run,
didn't know exactly you know what what happened as a
result of that run, and probably you know, look at
where the fits are at on it. But he's a
good player and we knew he was gonna get in
some space and they were gonna give him, give him
some opportunities, and we had to you know, had to
figure out a way.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
To rally him up. And that one he got us.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, we had we had it up. We've had it
up for a couple of weeks. Just felt like a
good opportunity, a good good time in the game. To
call it, uh, it does have a name. It's just
what it is, this gunner getting in the game. We're
just I don't need to share the name. But it
was a it was a good play by those guys.

Speaker 7 (16:00):
You know that would be a time when.

Speaker 8 (16:01):
You're good as frustrated players, is that you're doing that
purpose and they the team where.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean we're on overtime.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
Let's go win it overtime like that's where or go
win it in the in the game right there, Like
we still had an opportunity to go down the field like, great,
that's a great opportunity to go try and win the game.
So I'm try and just keep my cool. I'm gonna
try and stay positive with the guys, cause we still
had chances and you know, until the clock runs out, like,
we're gonna continue to take chances to try and win
the game. So we're not We're we're not gonna like

(16:38):
that's football. I play it, you know, been as a
player in my whole life that you know, coaching it.
Things like that happen. That's a great challenge. Now it's
another opportunity for the offense to come up and step
up and try and win it. And we had some
we had some opportunities there at the end as we
were driving it, and then you know, we kind of got.

Speaker 8 (16:54):
A step back.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
So we so we laid off the gas and sail right,
let's take this thing in over overtime. But man, I
I want, I want our player is the feel that way.
If something bad happens, all right, great, just get back
on the horse and let's let's get back in in
our mentality of attack mode.

Speaker 8 (17:09):
As you did today, how difficult terms.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Listen, this is the team game.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Everybody's got to work together on it, special teams, offense, defense.

Speaker 5 (17:21):
So there's not one you know, there's not one group.
It's like all of us.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
It's all of us, the players, it's the coaches, it's
the staff, it's the whole organization. Find a way to win.
And so we got to find ways to get better,
find a way to create an edge for ourselves. And
that's what we're gonna do as a as a you
know myself, I'm gonna evaluate everything across the board. Where
can we where can we find an edge to go
win a football game? That's we're at right now. Jamis

(17:45):
played his tail off very very proud of him. I
mean the throws he made, he set up in a
pocket versus a very good defense, had a lot of
production in the past.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
Game. Our guys one for him early. Our line blocked their.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Tail off all game, our backs ran hard, like I thought,
I really liked the plan and I thought Jamis executed
and managed the game excellently.

Speaker 9 (18:07):
He was.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
I think wanted a career high in yards. He had.
He had a good match he had.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
We liked the match up there and He's a very
talented player, and you just let him go and he
you know, he made some big time plays for us. Again,
tough kid, battle through some you know, getting ding, kicking
some big hits, and this kid just continues to just
keep on coming back and fighting. He's the guy that
I can just go to war with every day of
the week. For Yeah, well this we'll see where Jackson

(18:33):
is in the in the protocol and then and then
we'll just make a decision based.

Speaker 5 (18:37):
Off that that info.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
You know, thanks, continue to continue to come together as
a group, continue to lead them, continue to show give
them examples and put them in positions that are difficult

(19:01):
so that they can work their way battle through it.
I think, you know, having confidence so that I do
have a lot of confidence in this group of players,
a lot of confidence group of coaches, and so you know,
there's a lot of good things that can come out
of this game. We'll take We'll take those and we'll
continue to build on that. And then the stuff that
we got to get cleaned up, those issues, you know,
we'll find solutions for these guys. Then we'll go work
it and have a great intent and practice and you know,

(19:23):
put together a great practice design so that we can
go and knock these things out that are giving us issues. Yeah,
bearing a decision like we'll just yeah, we'll kind.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Of play that out. But I like, I like Jackson
if he's if he's healthy and ready to go, still have.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
This obviously, but.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
Yeah, I do. I have a lot of confidence in
Shane and his entire staff.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
All right, Mike Kafkis postgame press conference is brought to
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Speaker 1 (20:07):
Keep getting better.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
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Speaker 3 (20:12):
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Speaker 2 (20:23):
We're back here on Giants Extra point. Giants again fall
to the Lions thirty four to twenty seven in overtime
in tiki. We heard from the coach there and this
is why you don't know what's happening during the game
with some of the substitution patterns. We said, how that
just wouldn't be a decision that the defense would make.
Obviously he was managing an injury. Mike Kafee said it,
and you said this before we even heard the press commence,
it seemed like they were trying to prioritize passing situations

(20:46):
for Dexter Lawrence. Mike Kafkas said exactly that, which is
why as Steph Kam was down in the second half.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Stress and look at Dexter Lawrence. We know how good
of a player is when he's fully right, but he
hasn't been fully right for whatever reason, all season long,
and so you just want to maximize the most you
can get out of him in whatever moments. Now, as
a player, it's it's you gotta be smart about it.
As a fan, you get frustrated by it, and it's

(21:11):
you know, listening to Carl, you can tell he's frustrated
by it because you want to see decks out there.
He's your best defensive player, at least from a you know,
all pro type selection situation. Maybe Brian Burns is surpassing
him this season, but you want your best players out
there in critical moments against teams that are as good
as the Detroit Lions, and he just wasn't available. But
it's not his fault. I believe what Kafka was saying

(21:34):
that he gave it as all, and I think from
a player standpoint, they probably.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Understand that as well. Yeah, we'll see if he's limited
on practice on Wednesday. Yeah, that'll give us a hint
of what the injury was. But they list the body
part right, and then we'll have an idea of maybe
where the injury was. My Kafka did not specify that
in the postgame press conference, but at least that gives
us some answers there and your thoughts on Kafkive's response
in terms of his decision making.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I didn't mind to go for four week. We said
it early in the game. They didn't go for it.
They kicked the field goal, and he's right, it's early
in the game. Your defense is playing phenomenal. Take a
two score lead late in the game, you know the
Lions are constantly getting in scoring position. You have to

(22:17):
put points on the board. Just like we said earlier, John,
you can't just score seven points in the second half
and expect to beat a team as good and prolific
as a scorer their top five and scoring in the NFL,
as a Detroit Lions. You have to score points and
a touchdown was especially given the spread, or not the spread,
but the delta on the game. You know twenty seven

(22:38):
to twenty four. You had to go score a touchdown
in order to make it a two possession game against
the Lions, and they probably only had one possession left.
I don't mind it. I just mind the play calling
that was the problem down there. You run the ball
on first down, I get it, it's play action pass
on the second down. Do something that's not expected on
second down, because then you get yourself in a third

(22:58):
situation where you run it again and you lose four yards.
It just it was unimaginative. And it's been anti what
we've seen in the red zone from Mike Kofka for
most of this season.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, where they've been very effective that one hundred, specially
since Jackson Dark took over, and it has continued.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
The last week. They did have a couple of failures
down there in the DP red zone, which did hurt them.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
All Right, let's take a time out, we'll come back.
We'll get more players in the locker room postgame. That
and a whole lot more Giants again fall to the
Detroit lines in overtime thirty four to twenty seven.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
You are listening to Giants Extra Point on the WFAN
Giants Radio network.

Speaker 10 (23:34):
This is Wanda Robinson and you're listening to Giants football
on the fan WFAN and Wfan FM, New York.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yips is out himself for dips like that.

Speaker 11 (23:48):
He's gonna one back set and all Forgibbs, gips up
the middle, gips on the run, gips across good field.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Gibbs is gonna go all the way for the touchdown
nine yards.

Speaker 11 (24:01):
On the first playoff overtime, Winston call signals if the
Lions bring a heat, Winston bags the snap back to throw,
steps up under pressure, sack, crack of the thirty one
yard line, and the ball.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Game is over. Those are the two big plays in overtime.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
The only play from scrimmage that the Lions had in overtime,
that sixty nine yard touchdown run by Jamiir Gibbs right
up the middle to give the Lions the lead. Giants
come back, drive it all the way down to the
Lions twenty seven yard line, but then on a fourth
and ten, Jamis Winston is sacked from behind by Aiden Hutchinson,

(24:44):
his first big play of the game, and the Giants
fall to the Lions in overtime thirty four to twenty seven.
John Schmelk, Tiki Barber with you right here on Giants
extra point and Tiki We're gonna hear from Jameis Winston. Shortly,
Mike caf Get talked about how he played well, and
we have talked about one the Robinson game he had.
Either of those two guys did everything they could on
offense to try to push the Giants over the top.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
It just wasn't quite enough. Yeah, they I mean, they
were great in this game. And Wandell went out late
in the game after diving for a play was wide
open down to twelve yard line. It was just an
errant throw where maybe he got held up a little
bit out of the break because, as we mentioned in
the pregame, a lot of Jamis's throws or timing throws,
especially when he's on schedule, he's putting that ball to

(25:25):
a spot and he expects you to be there, and
it just missed Wandell a little bit. But not that Notwithstanding,
he was fantastic, especially in the first half, one hundred
and fifty six yards in a obviously the trick play
touchdown on the opening drive. Wandall's exactly what you want
for a team because he's such a consistent part of
being productive for this squad.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, and look, you're playing a team like the Lions
Tiky that play a ton of man to man defense.
You do not beat man to man defense by dinking
and dunking your way up the few with short passes. Yeah,
you have to beat them with explosive play. And Jamis
Winston is the guy to get explosive plays. And by
the way, the line had done a pretty good job
of preventing explosive plays this year, despite the fact they.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Play a lot of man to man defense.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And in this game, the Giants had the forty two
yard pass to Tyrone Tracy, the forty yard deep pass
de Wandol Robinson, the thirty nine yard touchdown dew WANDL Robinson,
the thirty nine yard pass to Theo Johnson, and a
thirty three yard pass to Jamis Winston from going to
Wolf Scewsky, plus a thirty yard deep pass to Isaiah Hodgins.

(26:30):
They had six passes of thirty yards or more throwing
two more passes of twenty six.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yards or more. So this was just explosives play city
all day long through the Gay Yeah, and again a
lot of it wasn't I mean, some of it was downfield,
but some of it was just designed scat releases to
Tyrone Tracy, you know, who did a great job in
the receiving room as well. I mean he had sixty
eight yards on three receptions Tyrone Tracy. And I know

(26:57):
it feels like, oh, those were just dumped downs, but
actually they were. They were designed free release plays for
the running back that they took advantage of knowing and
game planning well against what the lines we're going to do.
But again, all of this is it's it's really good
to talk about the positives from the Giants, like the
things that they did well and how good Jameis Winston look.

(27:17):
And you know, the one question I'd have is why
the heck did you need Russell Wilson when Jameis Winston
is just as probably better. And also, uh, the example
that you want a young quarterback to follow, stay in
the pocket, let the ball get released on time, be smart.
You know you can be risky, but don't be too
risky because you don't want to turn the turn the

(27:38):
football over. That being said, I love the Jamis example.
I love what he's done for this team in these
first you know, two starts that he's had this year,
and so hopefully they keep that going.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, we haven't seen the quite seen the bad Jamis
show up yet. No, he eventually shows up eventually. He
hasn't shown up quite yet.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Right, two interceptions and the one that today not two interceptions,
but two interceptions in his in his first two weeks.
But the one today was just it was he was late.
It was a throw he shouldn't have thrown. Yeah, he
knows it. Running right, throwing across your body in the
middle of the field and not seeing the stalking defender
waiting for it for you, and that's just that's just
that's just bad. That's bad by Jamis. But he knows

(28:18):
that just as well as everybody else.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, now looking back at it this year, Tiaki still
the only two games the Giants won were the two
games where they were in the positive on the turnover side.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Of franks and then they don't get enough turnovers takeaways.
They don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Look, they've only had three games they've been in the
plus side. The other game which they lost was the
forty nine ers game. They were plus one in that game.
But otherwise the only other two games that they won
they were on the positive side of the turnover ratio,
So that comes down to all right, they got the
big play part of the formula in this game, but
again they did not you know, the Jamis interception ended
up getting to stop the three and out, so not

(28:52):
a big deal, but you still lose a possession out
of it, which heurts.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
You lost some field position as well. But I think
the challenge for you know, the Giants defensively is, you know,
for the fesiable next to the mostly the rest of
the season is how are you getting the playmakers on
the defensive side of the ball. It's really the defensive
front and if those guys aren't getting pressure on a
consistent basis, then how are you gonna get turnovers? How

(29:17):
are you going to affect games in a positive way
if you can't turn you know, turn imposing offenses over.
What do you think of the pass rush today? It
was okay, it wasn't great. I was happy for Darius Alexander.
He was helped out by Dexter Lawrence being next to
him and Dexter winning immediately forcing him, you know, to
be you know, one on one as well. I thought

(29:39):
he did well, but it felt non impactful. Still, it
felt like there were chances for big sacks and they
just missed him. Brian Burns had won both arms around
Jared Golf and he and he and he comes free.
I felt like Abdul Carter, while you know he's in
the backfield a little bit, I never felt like he
was a threat. So there's still wor to be done

(30:00):
there despite all of the resources that have been applied there.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Early grading by PFF has fourteen total pressures in this game,
three for Carter, only one for Burns.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
They were chipping Brian Burns an awful lot. I mean,
that's what's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Three for Daris Alexander, three for Dexter Lawrence, and three
for Nachos. Those are the pressures that were on the
board for the Giants today.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Pressures, not sacks. You gotta get turnovers off of disrupting
the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
I was happy to see they did have three sacks,
which is better than they've had most games this year.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
True, I was happy to see the the secondary blitz.
It was only one of them where Dane Belton I
believe it was came free an unblocked pressure, which is
something that you don't get a lot from Shane Bowen
and it forced an incompletion, So it's something that needs
to be more integrated into their repertoire. All right, let's

(30:50):
take a time out. We'll come back. We're still winning
on Jameis Winston at the podium and the other players
in the locker room. We'll take a break. We'll come back.
Giants again. Fault to the lines right here on Giants
extra point thirty four to twenty s.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
You're listening to Giants extra Point on the Wfan Giants
Radio network.

Speaker 7 (31:06):
This is Jameis Winston and you're listening to Giants football
on the Fan w f AN and w f AN FM,
New York.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Stop play faith.

Speaker 11 (31:19):
They run an end around for Rowshawsky, who's gonna throw it,
but there's now He does throw.

Speaker 12 (31:23):
It down the left sideline for Winston who makes the
catch of the fifteen.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Jameis preaching fighting. It is O for the touchdown.

Speaker 12 (31:31):
Holy come, oh Shaskey with a touchdown past double all people.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Jameis Winston and that was today's play.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
The game brought to you locally by Ford and One Performance.
A capability to every turn. Get behind the wheel of
a new FOURD truck or re suv Ford official truck
and as you view the New York Giants, Giants fault
to the Lions thirty four to twenty seven and overtime
at Tiki. When we saw that play and heard Bob
make the call because we hear the call before we
see the play, yes, we thought maybe this today might
be different because shows pocket presence as a passer by

(32:03):
stepping up through it, throws back shoulder of Jenis do
it just to the ball in the air, runs through
a linebacker's tackle at four a touchdown?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Like are you kidding me? Yeah? I was. My notes
on that were what d TF am I watching right
now because of how crazy that play was, But it
was executed perfectly because as a pass thrower, when you're
being rushed and things are starting to break down, if
it's available to you step forward towards the line of
scrimmats to one by yourself space, but two, get yourself

(32:36):
in a running motion so that if there is nowhere
to go with the football, you can go pick up
two or three yards or ten yards or whatever it
is scrambling. But then number two, when you ultimately throw
that ball, if the defender is on top of your receiver,
which the linebacker was throw it to his back shoulder.
So somehow, Gunner Olshewski, I don't know if you've ever

(32:57):
ever played quarterback in his and his life. Through the
perfect pass and the perfect kind of setup to Jamis
Winston that resulted in a thirty three yard touchdown.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
All Right, we do have Isaiah Hodgens down in the
locker room. Let's listen in to him after this game.

Speaker 13 (33:08):
Isaiah, I know you've only been here a couple of weeks.
With these kinds of dramatic losses can certainly take a
lot out of the team. These guys have how to
deal with it a lot more than you have this year.
But how do you move past them? How do you
digest a loss like this?

Speaker 8 (33:22):
And it's tough. Can't even lie to you. I can't
imagine since Yeah, like you said, I've only been here
for a.

Speaker 14 (33:29):
Couple of weeks, and you know, being in those coast
games and I've been come out on top of It's tough,
but we got to find a way to finish. I
think you know, we played good as a team, and
we show good grit. You know, Coco's going great plays
down it up you know, all credits to the coaches
and our preparations out the week, the players.

Speaker 8 (33:47):
But we just got to find a way to finish, man. So,
you know, being a part of loss like that sucks
for sure.

Speaker 13 (33:52):
We saw you guys use a couple of gadget plays
and obviously put a bunch of points on the board
and move the ball effectively offensively. What was it that
you thought went so well against the defense that over
the course of the season has been very good here
in Detroit.

Speaker 14 (34:04):
Yeah, I mean, just being ables. That's our preparation and
that's all credit to the coaches and us. You know,
I've patic start the week, just a little details talking
with the quarterback, and then at the end of the
day just execute on that field. I mean, we got
a bunch of gamers on the scene, and I know
we're not getting the results we want. But when you
look for my roster top the bottom, there's a bunch
of players who could really play it.

Speaker 8 (34:24):
So I'm excited to be a part of it. But
you know, we just gotta find the way finished.

Speaker 13 (34:28):
They get the touchdown and showed off the overtime. You
guys get the ball back. Jameis Winston was able to
be able to convert a fourth down on a scramble
as you guys got into Detroit territory.

Speaker 8 (34:37):
What was the mentality during that drive?

Speaker 13 (34:40):
How hard was it to turn the page from then
getting the lead touchdown and then you guys trying to
tie it.

Speaker 8 (34:47):
I don't think as hard as all.

Speaker 14 (34:48):
I mean, you know, we prepared for those moments and
we just know, like, you know, be ready to go
out there and score, and you know, be ready to
score and go for two. You know that's our mentality,
you know, trying to go finish it and win it.
I mean, James played amazing man. Just so much credit
to him man and the grid and the ability to
be able to bounce back and amount of great throws
that he made. I mean, it was crazy to be
a part of fun to watch. I mean, all credit

(35:10):
to him.

Speaker 8 (35:10):
Okay, thanks for you trying, Isaiah, Just real quickly, like
what about.

Speaker 15 (35:15):
The Giants offense that play calls particularly that elevate your
game because it seems like every time you trying to
uniform you were just targeted and you make the catches
and it's always come.

Speaker 16 (35:27):
To your way.

Speaker 14 (35:28):
Yeah, I mean it's a great offense. Man, I'm very
comfortable in it. Calf, great play card we got, Tim Kelly.
I mean, this great just system for wide receivers to
be in. You know, I give all credits just to that.
I mean when I my little time that I was
in San Francisco and Pittsburgh also and the wide receivers,
they're the same thing.

Speaker 8 (35:47):
Like, man, you guys have no idea.

Speaker 14 (35:48):
Like being part of that Giants offensive scheme and just
like the route concepts like to receivers dreams. It's amazing,
you know. So you know, I'm just excited to be
a part of it. But you know, we just got
to keep executing.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
That's ay Isay Hodgens in the locker room after the
Now let's go to our phone lines. Paul Deatino is
standing probably outside of a bus somewhere in Detroit where
imagine it's pretty chilly outside.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Paul.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Unfortunately, we've talked to you after games like this many
times this year. What was the mood in the locker
room after this one? We just heard from Isaiah Hodgens.
You haven't heard from nobody else yet.

Speaker 16 (36:19):
Yeah, again, very numb. This is the fifth gut punch
lost the Giants have had this year, John, where they
have been defeated inside the final five minutes or in overtime,
as you know, twice in overtime this year, just like
last season when they lost two games in overtime. It's numbness.
The guys who were young, the dalias Alexander's of the world.

(36:42):
The guys like well Isaiahudgens isn't necessarily young, but he's
only been here now for a couple of weeks. They're
more trying to find positives in the situation because they
haven't been hit in the stomach five times as the
other guys have this year. Although Alexander certainly has been
here for season. He did have two solo sacks. Today,
he's looking at this as a building process. He's trying

(37:05):
not to let it soil his mentality. That's kind of
where it is right now. And of course, the Gadget
plays were a lot of fun that gave this offense,
and a lot of these guys like Wandell Robinson and
Gunnar Roschewsky who I spoke with, gave them a lot
of zip. They at least, you know, found some solace
in the loss because they see a head coach who's

(37:27):
creative who's not afraid to get the ball to them
in big spots, who's willing to take gambles. So there
were some things to chew on in this game. I
suppose that some guys were trying to reach.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
For yeah, And I think the biggest thing from an
offensive standpoint is Jamis is always positive and I think
you feel that now and I think it's an extension
of what Jackson Dart is. There's always this positive energy
even when things aren't going well, and I think it's
why you see this offense. Recauless of the quarterback is

(38:01):
always fighting right. They never seem to be laying down
their sword and that's Look, it's hard to say what
you want to say about this game because it is
a fifth fourth quarter loss of the season. It's depressing
you only won two games out of twelve so far.
But if you want to find silver linings, I think
the positivity in that locker room comes from basically their
quarterbacks and the way that they play the game.

Speaker 16 (38:23):
I'd agree with that, Tiki. And you know, this being
the second overtime loss, but this was the only one.
Remember the Dallas game came down to a field goal
on the final play of overtime by the Cowboys. He
was a situation where they were down. They gave up
a gut punch run by Gibbs. By the way, I
think that was the third huge gaping hole up the

(38:46):
middle that he just went and you know, it became
a trap star and just ran right down the field.
So that's just an excusable But here's the thing. They
did show resilience. They come back after that. You usually
could have gone thrilling out and the game could have
been over. But even Winston converted a fourth down on
a scramble. That offense showed you, even in this situation

(39:10):
with the entire world collapsing on them for the eighteenth time,
they took the ball down the field and got into
Lion's territory. And believe me, there were people in that stadium.
I was on the sideline with a bunch of security
people and stuff, and they're like, oh my god, you
guys might actually tie this game. You know, there was
a lot of belief.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, gives it runs, Paul, you mentioned it runs of
forty nine yards, forty nine yards and sixty nine yards
in this game.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
That's how you rush over to two hundred yards. By
the way, folks, Paul, did you talk or did anybody
speak to dex Lawrence after the game.

Speaker 16 (39:44):
No, I did not get a chance to talk to Dexter.
The locker room was very crowded, trying to weave your
way in to talk to different guys. I talked to Robinson, Alexander, Ozchewsky, Hodgens, Bellinger.
You know, I made the rounds as best as I could,
and then how to get to the bus.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
No, Paul, no worries. That was just one thing, is
Mike Kfie addressed in the press conference. There was talk
from Crawlbanks on the radio broadcast about how Dexter snap
counts were down, especially laying the game. All his curios
a Dexter to addressed that at all after that, curious just.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
To see if he's heard. I mean, the implication was
that he was battling through some sort of injury. Nick
duff is the word up and just fighting for him,
And look, he wasn't. He was impactful. He didn't have
any sacks or stats like that, but he was impactful.
I think Darius Alexander can thank him for at least
one of those sacks.

Speaker 16 (40:31):
Well, I think the one thing, fella is that a
lot of people have been asking about, and justifiably so
at the end of these games, if it's not a
schreme question, which a lot of people still think that,
there are scheme questions. The other one is deployment of
players and deployment of personnel. And you know, there were
times when people are asking like why is so and

(40:52):
so on the field and not on the field in
those spots, those those are all legitimate things to wonder,
and obviously, you know it's up to the coaching staff
to come up with those answers. But but those are
certainly legitimate questions that can be asked.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Paul, anything else strike you after the game? Otherwise well
that's you're all.

Speaker 16 (41:10):
No, I think, uh, you know, gonna go Chevsky. I
don't know how much you guys might get some audio
on him, but talk to him afterwards, and he said
they tried that play and practice three different times. All
three times he threw the completion. So he was very
very happy to be able to hit Winston for that touchdown.
Although let's give credit to Jamis Tinky, he's had some

(41:32):
barber like moves and to get into the end.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Zone hotel breaking leg tackles and when a guy's on
the ground, he should not be able to bring you
down keeping his balance and getting into the in zone.
Aw's a hell of a play. Crew Man is a
hell of a play by Jamis Paul. Good stuff, my
friend safe travels coming back home?

Speaker 16 (41:51):
All right, you got it, guys.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
But luckily, even though Paul Tatino did have a chance
to talk to Dexter Lawrence, apparently our boy Pete Hoffin
did get his microphone in front of that the Lawrence
after the game, so licient to see what Deck's had
to say.

Speaker 17 (42:03):
It takes a little a little more to you know,
you know, get to him and get him down and
things like that.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
So you just gotta be better with that.

Speaker 8 (42:11):
How much are you fighting through injury here? How much
are you fighting through injury and things bothering you? If anything,
I just got nicked up this game. It wasn't coming
into the game, it was during during the game. Wow,
this got nicked up.

Speaker 7 (42:26):
As a leader of the defense here, when you have
these fourth quarter leagues become a team.

Speaker 8 (42:31):
Can you put a finger on that at all?

Speaker 17 (42:32):
I mean the uh uh, you know we stopped exposive
this week. It is a different game, and you know
he had a couple early and then he had that
one at the end. So if we do better with those,
just just you know, being more consistent and in those
situations and those ranks and those run.

Speaker 8 (42:53):
Fits and would be good.

Speaker 18 (42:55):
Did you did you want to be on the field
on that first of all our time? Was that situation
you alreadyknew're cutt trying?

Speaker 8 (43:00):
Yeah, they were just.

Speaker 17 (43:03):
They was just uh, I wanted to get the third.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
Down and you know, get rushed to get some good rushes.

Speaker 18 (43:08):
Top of that, I said, physically couldn't, but just stand
on the side of as.

Speaker 17 (43:12):
A competitor, I always want to be on the field.
But I understood the process and the game plan and
I trusted it.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
When did you kind of shift into that mood like
you know, hey, we gotta kind of preserve, like when
we can get the most out.

Speaker 8 (43:24):
In like in the first quarter. How you feeling right now? Physically?
You just played the football game. Why do you think
it's an injury or is just something you know, just
this this nig something you hard?

Speaker 17 (43:38):
Yeah, I finished the game, so at this.

Speaker 5 (43:41):
Point, just how I guess what's the frustration of it?

Speaker 8 (43:43):
I guess what you know, doing so much right this game,
but against same result as.

Speaker 14 (43:47):
The last five.

Speaker 17 (43:48):
Yeah, I mean the result is frustrating. But as a defense,
you know, I brought us up and told like, we
played well, we you know, we held them to you know,
to whatever, we held him too. But it's just those
explosive plays and we can't have that. And I mean,
that's just that was my message to the defense, just
not the girl. Where were the process? Keep growing in

(44:10):
stacking days and you know it'll turn around.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So nicked up early the game, Tiki that that, but
the message from Kafka, the messes from Dector Lawrence, and
he was not able.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
To play much more than more plays.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
In later downs and early downs. Yeah, I mean, look,
you're taken for a word, but he he they're better
when he's out there, of course they are.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Of course they are. And we'll see how much he's
able to play.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Next week, the Giants, of course go to New England
and they will play on Monday Night Football against the
New England Patriots, and the Giants will try to win
their first game in quite a while. They've now lost
six straight as they head into the month of December
with Thanksgiving coming your way, next week.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Let's take a time out.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
We'll come back. We will have Jamis Winston at the podium.
That and a whole lot more. The Giants fall to
the Lions in overtime thirty four to twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
We're right back.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
You're listening to Giants Extra Point on the WFAN Giants
Radio Network.

Speaker 10 (45:10):
This is Wanda Robinson and you're listening to Giants Football
on the Fan WFAN and WFAN FM, New York.

Speaker 11 (45:21):
I set third, two ball six at the thirty nine,
costs right for Singletary, throws it back to Winston, makes.

Speaker 8 (45:31):
A man miss nout deep down field.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
He's got Robinson in the zone for the cutdown and
that I'll call it a fleet flicker, but is technically
that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
But it was also across the field throwback to Jamis Winston,
whatever you want to call it. That was today's scoring
drive of the game, brought to you by Citizens. For
every scoring drive this season, Citizens were doing eight seven
hundred and fifty dollars to the Giants Foundation to support
their work tackling and community issues, improving over our health
and empowering our youth.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
That was the scoring play on a four play sixty
five yard drive for a.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Touchdown on the Giants opening drive of the game, gave
him seven nothing lead.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Another drive this year was at nighttime.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
I think Bob said ticky that the Giants scored yeah
eight time may yeah that that they scored on an
opening drive this year.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Giants seven, thank you seven. So they've been great on
opening drives this year.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Another one for the Giants well, and the Robinson caught
that pass from Jamis Winston on the throwback.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Let's listen to him in the locker room after the
game and DLL I.

Speaker 13 (46:27):
Got it to any obviously want to spectacle in the
life Forgure And I know I feel because the last
is still the walls and I'm sure that's not a conservation.

Speaker 10 (46:34):
Yeah, would have been nice to have to win out
on top of that, but yeah, I really don't care
too much about how the game personally went after.

Speaker 13 (46:44):
The all, So, could you describe the flue flicker who
as we saw it developed and you certainly got behind
the defense and had how to take slow motion.

Speaker 5 (46:52):
As that bull was coming down here.

Speaker 10 (46:53):
Yeah, it definitely felt like ball was taken a little
bit uh to come down. But I think we've been
practicing that play for about two weeks and it was
you feel like it's the perfect time to call it
on that third and one more on our on the
plus side of the east side.

Speaker 8 (47:07):
Great called by Calf and a great Excuse.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Me, it wasn't the only trick play that we stipicate.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
What does that tell you about mine?

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Calf is a head coaching, is a play caller to
pull those things out.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
I mean, he's aggressive.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
He told us that he's gonna be aggressive.

Speaker 8 (47:19):
He believes in assent.

Speaker 10 (47:20):
He touched them offense side of the wall, just the
waving practice, and I think that's lets him just you
know that we can go out there and be aggressive
and he believes in everything.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
That we do.

Speaker 5 (47:28):
Did you know that you would have been such a
significant part when you playing going to people's k I.

Speaker 10 (47:33):
Mean yeah, we knew that they were gonna try and
play a little bit of a lot of Man, I
feel like I can get open, So just you know
Jamis trusted me, and me trusting Jamis.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
I'm just going out there and getting open.

Speaker 13 (47:44):
Hey come back rally and we've seen other teams rally
in the fourth quarter against the Giants old season long
and then they get to go ahead score.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
How difficult is it to get the gears going.

Speaker 13 (47:53):
Again on that last drive and know the need to
touchdown to continue the game.

Speaker 10 (47:58):
I mean, it's not difficult at all. At end of
the day, confederor you want to go out there, and
you want to go out there and do that. I
was just more so sick that I was just getting
double teams at that point during the game and I
couldn't really go out there.

Speaker 8 (48:08):
And make up play too much.

Speaker 12 (48:09):
How much you think you know before the game that's
gonna be super aggressive?

Speaker 8 (48:14):
You have all these you know she's good older strict players.

Speaker 19 (48:16):
Do you have an idea?

Speaker 8 (48:17):
And then that's something you knew was coming.

Speaker 10 (48:20):
I mean, we have him in and I just feel like,
as long as it's the right time.

Speaker 8 (48:23):
To call him, he's gonna call him. So, yeah, what
did you say on that overtime und you said? There
you right with the one time you got opened there
out of that open.

Speaker 10 (48:31):
Oh yeah that was at this meaning. I guess John no,
Jameis wants that one back. But yeah, I say, I
had kind of a corner route and he overplayed me
to the inside and threw him by.

Speaker 5 (48:41):
Once I saw the ball.

Speaker 8 (48:42):
Come out, I was just like, dang, I'm not gonna
I don't feel like the.

Speaker 10 (48:44):
Able to get to this and suf but I tried,
everything got good.

Speaker 8 (48:49):
Little off target.

Speaker 18 (48:50):
Did you guys feel you kind of have answers for
what they're doing? It seemed like you guys were really
in a rhythm intermediate rout Like did you just know that,
like whenever they were calling up you heard the answer.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
To Oh yeah.

Speaker 10 (48:58):
I mean I just at the end of the day,
just feeling like they can't, you can't, they can't guard
me whatever I'm out there. I feel like that's any
in every game that I played, just going out there, James,
give me a chance?

Speaker 8 (49:09):
About there mcplayer playing with James letter rip, Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Mean he's he's gonna let it rip.

Speaker 10 (49:14):
And dude, like like you said, he's gonna let it
rip and give you a chance.

Speaker 8 (49:18):
And I see exactly what you want is a receiver.
What did you're thinking about what you offered him today?
In general, I thought James played well.

Speaker 10 (49:24):
Obviously, I think he wants that one interception back.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
He didn't.

Speaker 10 (49:28):
He definitely didn't see him and I didn't even feel
the guy that he was about to cross my face.
I thought I was wide open whenever you're throwing the football,
and you know, I think that's the one that we
definitely went back.

Speaker 8 (49:38):
But I thought he care amazing. Today.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Giants football is brought to you locally by Ford. One
performance and capability at every turn. Get behind the wheel
of a new Ford truck or SUV Ford official truck
at SUV of the New York Giants, and man that
through that pass to one though Rominson his gymis Winston.
He addressed the media on the podium after the game.

Speaker 14 (49:56):
One thing that I have always uh one of my
you know, to coaches Jim Brogan, he always told me
and we always repeat it, the success is in the struggle.

Speaker 8 (50:07):
You know, we have to continue to endure.

Speaker 14 (50:10):
One of my favorite Bible versus is counting all joy
when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing
of your faith produces perseverance, and let that perseverance have
its perfect work so.

Speaker 7 (50:22):
You can be complete, lacking nothing. And I think that
this team is just in the season where we're enduring
certain trials. How I was so proud of the defense
to when they got that turnover. We just have to
find a way to win, and that's as simple as
that I have to do my role better. We all
have a part in this, but the coaches are putting

(50:44):
us in a great position to do so.

Speaker 8 (50:46):
Collectively.

Speaker 7 (50:47):
We just have to find a way and we will.
We are desperate for a when That's one of the
things I was in the locker room. Let's be desperate
for a victory.

Speaker 9 (51:02):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (51:03):
This is one of the best teams in the NFL.
You know, we came here on a mission and we
didn't We didn't complete that mission. So we have to
find a way and whatever it takes. Uh, we're willing
and able to do it.

Speaker 14 (51:20):
He's he's been doing he's been doing phenomenal. He's been
doing phenomenal. He's an excellent head coach. He's poised, he's confident.
We have to help him out myself included. He's an
NFL quarterback and he wants to win. He's doing whatever

(51:42):
it takes to win. And they worked. We just didn't win.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
I felt that.

Speaker 7 (51:52):
I feel I feel that our offense is playing very good.
I'm I just have to focus on finishing for us.
We can be better in clutch moments. We're dombinant. We
have one of the best office lines in this in
this football league. And I'm grateful for that, and that's
what it starts with.

Speaker 20 (52:09):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (52:09):
I just have to do a better job of finishing
for them.

Speaker 7 (52:20):
Yeah, I think it's honestly, I think it's more of
a spiritual thing than the x's and those things. And
I think that we have to dig deep uh and
continue to exhibit uh an unwavering faith UH and not
get into an.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Energy of the now or doubts. Uh.

Speaker 7 (52:38):
I love Coach Ka's message leave no doubts. And today,
you know, we left some doubt out there. We we
we were on a three yard line with a chance
to put the freaking nail in the coffin and uh
and I miss steel Johnson h on a on a
quick flat like that? Is that that is the details,
That is the execution that is required to win to

(53:00):
NFL games. I am so confident in our offense and
the coaches that put in work day in day out,
we collectively will do a better job of executing in
those moments. Yeah, there's so many if ands and butts.

(53:32):
My pastor the right to THEO Johnson, if it is
four inches to the left, that's a touchdown. And we
finished the game. I think It's just when you have
a good offensive line and you gotta running back, they

(53:54):
can they can throw. You got a receiver that that
is working his butt off and does everything require you
give him a chance. And those are morale boosters. And
you should have seen the sideline man and we were pumped.

Speaker 6 (54:04):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (54:05):
We we were excited, you know, and we need that.

Speaker 7 (54:08):
We need that energy moving forward because that's why are
our eyes are are we We're gonna we're gonna take
constructive criticism on this game. What are the pieces that
we can get better? And we're gonna use that energy
to help propel us to find a way to get
a win. For years, I like to consider myself an athlete.

(54:30):
I believe that I can make plays like that for
for this team. Uh If I need to play tight.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
End, I can.

Speaker 14 (54:36):
I do whatever it is that's required for this team
to have success. And uh, I'm grateful that cav gave
me an opportunity and Gonna trusted me. He gave me
a chance, and sometimes that's all you gotta do at
the quarterback position, give you got a chance, you know.
Russell Wilson sent me a picture of doing the Heisman.

(54:57):
Uh in like a little I think it's called a gift.
And I did the hasman and we got an end zone.
We just didn't win, guys, we gotta win.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
The old cliche tiki, and everyone loves Jamis's personality, but
I want to go here. You always want to point
with your thumb, not with your finger. And there were
a lot of there were a lot of other things
that went wrong in this game. But the play that
Jame has brought up multiple times was the pass, which
you'll argue, I think that wasn't even on.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Him, Yeah, because that was Johnson stumbled out of his break.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, that was slightly overthrowing the THEO Johnson that he
thought he should have completed, which would have put.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
The game away. No, of course it would have. And
again that's that's execution, and that is running a route
with precision, throwing the ball on time. And I think
everything went right except for THEO stumbled. It's a it's
a a minor little thing, and it ended up costing them,

(55:57):
you know, scoring a touchdown there. But Jamis is gonna
put the ball where it's supposed to be on time,
And so who's that on? Is it on THEO? Should
he not stumble. Is it on Jamis to recognize that
he's stumbled, and you know, maybe pause for half a second.
It's just it's execution. This is what you know. The
details of execution are varied. There are many, you know,

(56:20):
parts of that equation, and it's easy to blame somebody,
but ultimately Jamis takes the blame for it. And that's
why he's such a good leader for this offense. He's
not trying to point fingers, he's not trying to even
make an excuse. He's just saying, I gotta be better. Giants.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Football is brought to you locally by Ford. One performs
a capability at every turn. Get behind the wheel of
a new Ford truck or recive Ford official truck at
SUV of the New York Giants TIKI before we say
goodbye to our radio network. Giants taking on the New
England Patriots next week on the road on Monday Night Football.
Patriots have a slow start today, but they figure things out.
They end up rolling out to a victory. They end
up defeating the Cincinnati Bengals twenty six to in that game.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Your thoughts, early thoughts heading into New England next week. Yeah,
like they're a very well coached team, and you know
you're gonna have to play mistake free because Mike Rabold
just like Bill Belichick his mentor, I guess in a
sense because of his playing days. You gotta be prepared
for everything. Drake May, after a slow start, I think
you threw a pick six in this game, finished pretty

(57:24):
solidly almost three hundred yards and a touchdown. And Hunter Henry,
who was their tight end, had one hundred and fifteen
yards and a touchdown. So this team is sound. Drake
May is playing really good football, and even though they
didn't get explosives in their run game, Treyvon Henderson has
been amazing in the run game. We saw it a
couple of weeks ago, so it's multi layered that they're

(57:46):
gonna have to be on the lookout against a very
well coached and super successful so far this year, Newing
the Patriots squad at ten to two. All the player
press commerce you've heard after this game are brought to
you by MetLife, the official insurance company of the New
Or Giants. Please stick with us if you are listening
on our local flag substation WFAN here in New York
City and the surrounding areas. But right now, it's time

(58:08):
to say goodbye to the affiliates across the country. On
the Giants Radio Network, our next broadcast will be next
Monday night, when the Giants traveled to New England to
take on New England Patriots.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
On the network, the pregame show will begin at seven fifteen. Again,
the New York Giants fall to the Detroit Lions thirty
four to twenty seven in overtime. Another double digit fourth
quarter league goes by the wayside.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
If you like what you heard here on the postgame show,
you can listen to our.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Giants content on the Giants App, on giants dot Com,
on the Giants YouTube channel all week long. Big Will
Kickoff Live comes your way at twelve thirty. We're live
every day talking Giants and taking your calls. Make sure
you go check that out. Its streams live again on
the Giants App and on the Giants YouTube channel. You
should also check out the Giants Huddle podcast as well.
A rapid reaction will be going up after this game

(58:56):
and other great content throughout the week.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Thanks for being with us today.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
We will talk to you next Monday night when the
Giants visit the Patriots again.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
On the network pregame show at seven point fifteen.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
As for today, the Giants again fall to the Lions
at overtime thirty four to twenty seven. For our entire crew,
I am John Schmelke. We will see you in a
week back on the Giants Radio Network. Thanks for being
with us.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
We'll see that. But we're not done.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Right here on WFN and the r Tiki Barber and
I will take your calls at eight eight eight eight
toh eight one zero one to nine for the next
hour or so. We'll react to this. Then we'll join
Nets basketball right here on the fan. More sound from
the locker room. That and a whole lot more will
break it all down when we come back.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
This is Javon Holland.

Speaker 21 (59:52):
You're listening to Giants Football on the fan WFAN and
WFA in FM New York.

Speaker 12 (01:00:02):
Off back to throw passes it over the middle, It's
deflected and intercepted by the Giants. The Giants get the
interception of golf and it's Gavan Holland off the deflection
and the Giants force a red zone turnover, only the second.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
One this year for the defense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
The one takeaway the Giants had today Javon Holland's first
interception as a member of the New York Football Giants.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Let's year from Javon Holland after the.

Speaker 22 (01:00:27):
Game on the Delay of game. I mean, you guys
in the in you know, maybe have been criticized earlier
this year for not trying to do some things to
take some seconds off the flock, because that what you're
trying to do there, just kind of sit on him
a little bit and slow things down.

Speaker 23 (01:00:42):
Yep.

Speaker 22 (01:00:43):
And did you think you got off him in enough time?

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
I mean you obviously, Oh.

Speaker 21 (01:00:47):
No, it wasn't like me laying on It was when
I had knocked out. It was what it was when
I knocked the ball out of his hands. Yeah, it's
a good call by the ref. I was trying to
knock them all out.

Speaker 8 (01:00:56):
Let it dribble a little bit longer.

Speaker 21 (01:00:58):
You know, Prince of Time, he taught me to got
me right handed.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Right, Here's what happens.

Speaker 22 (01:01:05):
Then you watch a fifty nine yard field goal go through.

Speaker 5 (01:01:07):
It's like, you know, all those yards are important, aren't they?

Speaker 24 (01:01:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
I mean definitely definitely.

Speaker 13 (01:01:15):
Your shoes shoes run sometimes you hear you know, you
guys last week, the week before hurt more than it does.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
Now, does this hurt more than anything?

Speaker 7 (01:01:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (01:01:27):
I mean everyone hurts. Everyone hurts in their own way
because every game is different. So but yeah, everyone knows.

Speaker 22 (01:01:34):
When you see that at the field goal, I mean,
at some point, do you just think, can he just miss?
You know, because nobody seems to miss against you guys,
or you know, whatever needs to be done to get
one more point than you guys the other team seems
to get.

Speaker 5 (01:01:46):
You know, at some point, is there a luck or
a fade.

Speaker 22 (01:01:49):
Or something where you're thinking, know, we just misses this
field goal, we win, and then all this hard work
pays off.

Speaker 21 (01:01:54):
I mean, it's just the way the chips fall, man like,
it's just the it's just the way the league gives.
You know, it's any Givens Sunday type of game. And
uh yeah, and the kicker did his job, you know
what I mean, he he executed the field goal. Kudos
to him. That was a long field goal. And you know,
keep it through the uprights is what they pay him.

Speaker 19 (01:02:14):
Ron have you seen leave these fourth quarters?

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
I guess where there's like a commonwe's noo, but just
quarters you see that you's fund consistently in the theition
you guys are trying to get free.

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
In the fourth quarter. Yeah, just with the fourth quarters
with these leads brand like gimatically wise or.

Speaker 12 (01:02:30):
Wellmatically, it's kind of any issues you see that are
recurring that you know, his losses keep happening the lead.

Speaker 8 (01:02:39):
I mean that that that question is probably been my
payer and.

Speaker 9 (01:02:43):
To you do you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
As a defensive player where you give it up four
or five.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Double edition leads to the fourth quarter, you know what's
going on from.

Speaker 8 (01:02:52):
Trying your eyes, we're not executing to win the game.
What you do has many good things to give me.
Fust the cord.

Speaker 13 (01:03:01):
You fet a lot of good things, all kinds of leads,
defective lead, and you don't get the result.

Speaker 8 (01:03:06):
How you get fulcus, I'll tell you this.

Speaker 21 (01:03:10):
I say it's difficult to not move or turn stones
that don't need to be turned around. You know what
I mean, cause I feel like a lot of people, uh,
you know, when things keep going, they keep following the
other direction, you start to feel like you need to,
you know, move things that don't need to be moved,
and sometimes you end.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
Up, you know, losing the basis of what you're doing.

Speaker 8 (01:03:28):
And I don't think we're doing that, and I think
that that's a good thing.

Speaker 21 (01:03:30):
I think, you know, when when tough stuff happens in
like late in a game like that, like you just
have to keep on working on it until starts to
go your way, honestly, you know. And you can call
it like a you know, football god or something else
that you know you gotta pray to or something like
that to to go your way. But at the end
of the day, like you just gotta execute. And it's

(01:03:51):
gonna sound repetitive, you know, but that's just what it
comes down to.

Speaker 9 (01:03:55):
You.

Speaker 21 (01:03:55):
You know, if they get paid to they're trying to execute,
just like you're trying to execute. And uh yeah, they
it just happened farther way.

Speaker 8 (01:04:01):
That's just kind of the way it is.

Speaker 21 (01:04:02):
So you just take what you get from it, learn
from it, work on the things that you could have
done better, to keep on working on the things that
you did well so you can continue to do well
those and then you go to the next week, because
I mean, we can't do anything a little wit now,
but learn from it. So I don't know who said it,
but there's no losses. There's only wins and lessons.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Wins the lessons, and the lesson is he has to
get a stop to to win the game.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
And the play that Javon Holland for the folks that
maybe didn't see the game that he was being asked about,
was it delay a game penalty that happened the Lions
final drive with about just over a minute to go,
the Lions get a first down on a twelve yard
pass over the middle to Jamiir Gibbs. As Gibbs gets
up to try to hustle and give the ball to
the referee to put it on the ground to run

(01:04:47):
that next play to spot it, Howland knocks able out
of his hands. It stops the clock and he gets
called for a five yard penalty so that they are
first and five.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
On the next play. They go three plays.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
They lose five yards over the course of that on
a little swing passer Jimmy or Gibbs on a great
tackle by Dan Belton to lose five yards. Yeah, they
end up kicking a fifty nine yard field, so it
could have been a sixty four yard field. But Tiki,
to your point, they could have called those plays differently.
If they don't have that extra five yards off.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
They definitely call it differently. This is I know people
will make a big deal out of it. It was boneheaded,
it was stupid, but it was not the impactful difference
of the game. You can't directly correlate his penalty five
yard the lay of game penalty for them being able
to convert on a fifty nine yard field goal because

(01:05:33):
Dan Campbell and this Lion's offense would have called the
offense differently. In fact, they may have put them in
position to score a touchdown. Who knows, they would have
been more aggressive if they had more longer to go.
So it doesn't translate to me no different than in
Giants going for it on fourth and goal from the
six yard line and not converting it and making it

(01:05:57):
a three point game as opposed to a six point game.
Detroit Lions are then gonna call their offense differently, like
they're gonna be more urgent. They're not gonna be okay
settling for a field goal, They're gonna go for for six.
And the way that this defense had been given up
big plays, who knows if that would have happened, you
know what, they would have been found a way to
stop it. Because they haven't. Let's be honest, the Giants
have given up over the last five straight losses, right, No, six,

(01:06:21):
now straight losses thirty three points, thirty eight points, thirty
four points, twenty four points, twenty seven points, and now
thirty seven points. So quick, man, that is over thirty points.
I mean thirty thirty one points, right, So no, thirty
four points, right, thirty four today. It just that's a
lot of thirty point games, too many. You're not winning

(01:06:42):
a lot of football games when you give up thirty points, period,
You're not. That's the bigger issue for me. It's not
the oh, you did that this play, It's why do
you keep You're giving up thirty plus points over the
last six weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I'd have to go back and count what have you
the I'll do it during a break. What percentage of
those points you think came in the fourth quarter?

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Well, I mean in the Denver game it was all
thirty three, correct, yep. At least in the Philadelphia game,
it probably wasn't because that game was away. Fourteen points
in the Philadelphia game came in the first in the
fourth quarter, so that's already forty seven, right. And then

(01:07:20):
against the forty nine Ers, fourteen points came in the
fourth quarter, that's sixty one. It's just I mean, it's
a lot of adds up. It adds up, and then
you throw in the Bears game, another fourteen points came in,
so that's seventy four in the fourth quarter. And then
you throw in the big the Green Bay Packers that

(01:07:42):
was eight. So now you're up to eighty two. And
then this last game it's ten I think ten, and
then if and then ninety two.

Speaker 6 (01:07:54):
Years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
It's basically one hundred points in the fourth quarter and
beyond over the last six games. That's that's not good.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
And you know it's one point if that's happening when
you're up three touchdowns and you give it up garbage
time Price, But that was not the case right in
these games. You the ones with the lead in a
lot of those games and giving it up. So it
has to get better, Harvey and Dix. Hill's your first
year on Giants. Extra point, Harvey, what's going on up, Harvey?

Speaker 25 (01:08:16):
How are you had to throw up my notes again?

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Yeah? Yeah, we all did, Harvey.

Speaker 8 (01:08:21):
What do you got I know?

Speaker 25 (01:08:22):
Anyway? You know to me, you said it all the
Giants are prone to giving up very big plays. Otherwise
they probably be winning and why did they give up
big plays? You know, I talked last week about the
two weeks ago about not properly setting the edge, whether
it's the linebackers, the defensive end, or integrating the rest
of the defense into effective blitzing where you you blitz

(01:08:46):
when you want when you want to, not what you
need to. And also, you know, I was also spoiled
by week modern Dale and his element of surprise and
it's musical chairs as I call the defense. Explain to
me what we want. Neil did that. Shane Owen, Shane
Bowen hasn't done.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Okay, well Wavey, I would say that he's guys more aggressive.
Two very different approaches to defense. There are different theories
of playing defense in the National Football League, and by
the way, both work depending on how you want to
run and what type of personnel that you have. And
Wing Martindell was I want to dictate the terms by
creating pressure up front.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Now that has his own issues.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
People forget the Giants had the twenty seventh ranked defense
in Wing Martindale's last last year here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
It did not go well, right, and you're susceptible to
big plays when you play as aggressively as Wink does,
and especially when you're asking guys and this was a
caveon Thibodeau issue that people brought up in the win defense.
Why wasn't he getting more pressures? Well, it was because
twenty five to thirty percent of the time he was
dropping into coverage. And so you do these zone blitzes

(01:09:50):
where you draw, you bring extra pressure from one side,
you got to drop the opposing defensive end, and it
just you put guys in positions where they weren't playing
at their most ideal spots.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
And also when you're playing against and I think, look,
I think that type of defense can work against inexperienced quarterbacks.
When you're playing against inte you can speak this better
than me. When you're playing against veteran quarterbacks that have
seen a lot of that stuff before, it's hard to
fool them with a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Them because when you in particularly what I was just
alluding to, his zone pressure where someone's dropping and the
other side's coming. If you're smart, you get it, you
get it blocked up, you make it right for your
offensive line, and all of a sudden, you're just you're
just throwing a ball free into zones and you know
one guy playing zone has no idea what he's doing
in coverage.

Speaker 16 (01:10:33):
TEK.

Speaker 25 (01:10:34):
Can I make one more point please us? Yeah, It'll
be very quick. You know, I don't want to talk
about the whole issue of chronic traumatic and cephalopasy, but
I'm going to make this point as a doctor, practicing doctor.
I'm not a neurologist. But I was the first to
talk on FBN about UH about upgraded football helments. And
when the Redell came up with the revolution of the

(01:10:55):
zenus that had.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
A se.

Speaker 25 (01:10:59):
Decrease in concussions. And I actually brought that up and
Joe and Evan show U a long time ago and
with the call banks and call Banks remembers that. Okay,
of course, and fast forward to now with Jackson Dawd
and his concussions. I just want to answer this question.
There are there were, There are called guardian caps. The
kids are using it, they're using it in practice, and

(01:11:22):
there are mixed mixed results in the studies that I've reviewed.
It seems to me that why can't that be used
in the regular games?

Speaker 20 (01:11:29):
They can?

Speaker 25 (01:11:30):
There's just like a Harvey you can't.

Speaker 19 (01:11:33):
You can.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
There are some played like like Romeo Dobbs. For example,
we saw last week in the Giants played the Packers,
he was one of the Guardian caps.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Romeo Dobs he wears. He wears a Guardian cap. There's
a bunch of guys around the league that do do it,
and it's mostly guys who have had repeated concussions. I've
got to be honest with you, Harvey. The reason guys
don't wear it is because you look silly. It doesn't
look cool.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
I believe that one of the modern helmets, the new
ones that came out this year, I believe has the
Goardian cap technology built into it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
It's just larger. I think one of them, you know,
you know, but guys kind of like morevn the Martian,
you know, the Great Kazoo is that Harvey said something interesting,
and he's right about this, is that the results that
the empirical results of of the studies based on the
new helmet technologies and even the Guardian cap are mixed.

(01:12:25):
And the reason is it, a concussion doesn't happen when
you get hit hard. A concussion happens when your brain
hits the inside of your skull and tiki my theory.
And so if you have a cushion, a bigger cushion,
It doesn't stop your brain from moving.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
And I think, Tiki, I think concussions is not even
how hard you get hit. It's about whether or not
you're ready for the hit. If you can brace yourself
for a hit. No, you can limit that stuff. But
if you don't see it coming you, it can even
less violent ones can get you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
So you don't you don't know how right you are.
So when I was working at the Today Show and
the concussion issue was becoming a big issue. This was
right after I retired, did we did a story on
concussions in youth sports, and so we studied. The study
was basically around football and recreational sports like skiing on
all that stuff, and then soccer. Now, the highest instances

(01:13:22):
of concussions in high school turned out to be in
women's soccer. Interesting, and the reason was and they usually
they don't allow you know, heading, but the reason was
because the female neck for these teenage kids girls is
not as strong. So your neck is not as strong.
Interest Therefore, to your point, when even if you know

(01:13:43):
a hits coming, you can't brace yourself as effectively, like
you can't stop your head from bubbleheading, right, whereas a
football player or I don't know, a bodybuilder or a
weightlifter or somebody like that boxer, they know that they
contents their next to stop their head from shaking as
violently and thus preventing uh, you know, as much contact

(01:14:06):
brain to skull because of the violent nature of the movement.
So you're right, it's it is next string. It's not.
It's not necessarily you know how hard you got hit.
It's how hard can your body brace your neck from reacting?
And that goes back to the dark play last week.
And I said this to you off the air.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
If he doesn't fumble that ball and he's not reaching
for it, he's probably able to brace himself and he
might not get concussed. The fact that he's reaching for
the ball. He's not thinking about falling to the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Correct, he's relaxed. It's like it's like the car accident
where the person who is tense for it and sees
it coming gets seriously hurt, right, and so but the
guy who is relaxed it's different in car accidents, doesn't
doesn't feel it, but maybe he gets concussed. I think
the challenges is being ready for contact. If you're not
ready for contact, you're gonna get hit you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
You are never going to be able to eliminate the
risk completely. Try to minimize in the marth.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
By the way, not that we're going to get in
this deep conversation about please not a CTE chronic tramatic ensompholepathy.
But it's also certain guys deal with it better, right,
Certain the physiology of an individual I think matters, and
how you recover from a concussion and whether or not
you're more or less susceptible. There's also an alcohol component.
You know a lot of guys from the old school era,

(01:15:23):
they get beat up on a football field and then
they go drink a handle, you know what I mean,
or have eight beers and alcohol does not help generate
brain cells.

Speaker 16 (01:15:32):
We know that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Let's go to James in North Arlington.

Speaker 23 (01:15:35):
He's up next, Hi James, Well, j K, there's no
doubt that you are definitely the Ivy League.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 26 (01:15:47):
Your children are all Ivy League schools and that's perfect.
The thing is that I love when you talk about
how they may have played the game different and actually
of course when they didn't go for the field goals
and they went for the touchdown. They didn't get it,
but that Detroit that was good at the least tied
the school right, So all the game plans probably was

(01:16:09):
to the giant advantage. And I'm so happy that again
someone who really knows football can talk about that. The
only thing that maybe I like to ask you about it.
And Carl Banks didn't make a point about this, and
I was, you know, how good, how good car was?
He did say that Dexter Lawrence being out, he's the
best player on defense, maybe should have been on the field.

(01:16:30):
And one of that, maybe I've changed the play, the
play that they ran on the first down, he didn't
have plenty of time to rest.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Yeah, I mean, maybe it's a good question, Jay, because
you're right they did have the ten minute break between
the fourth quarter and overtime, and he was also on
the field the first playoff to two minute warning, if
I recall. So I think I don't know. I don't
know the reason because I don't know. I'm not having
conversations with dex I'm not having conversation with anybody on
that staff. But they're saying he was nick up with something.

(01:17:01):
Whatever that means. It is what it is. I feel
like they got used, They got into a pattern of
just using him in pass rushing situations as opposed to rundowns.
And John looked this up statistically, according to EPA, that's
expected points. Attic added, it's a it's an maybe useless
stat but it doesn't even matter. The Giants are marginally

(01:17:24):
better without Dexter Lawrence in the run game. Marginally, it's marginal,
it's not significant, doesn't mean anything. And so if you're
trying to keep decks healthy and effective in the most
important parts of a game, you're gonna wrest them on
first thing. And he has been a better pass rusher
than run stop for all year. And uh, the Giants

(01:17:45):
given up that huge play on the first play of
overtime is just it's just the Lions executing superiorly. There
was a hat on a hat for everybody in the
front seven, and Jamiir Gibbs is not really in danger
of getting tackled until he's in the second level and
then he runs away from the linebacker, runs around the

(01:18:06):
safeties and goes sixty nine yards untouched. That's just it's
just bad run fitting by the Giants. And I don't
know if dexter makes a difference, there probably not. I
think defensive scheme makes a difference. The defensive play call,
meaning you know they're going to run the football, run
a run a game, run a TT game, or do
something different or dog a gap or something like that.
The Giants set back and the Lions took advantage of it.

(01:18:29):
And again I'll say this again, I said this before.
If you give it an eight yard run, that's the
four of the defensive lineman. Do you give an eighty
yard run right or sixty nine yard run? And that's
the second look at.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
The defensive lines have something to do with it, but
the second and third levels have a lot more to
do with it than your defensive line.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
We talked to my buddy Lomas Brown, former Giant, former
Lion everything, he's been a longtime analyst on Detroit Lion Radio.
He said it and it was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
It was.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
It was almost felt inevitable, but it was prophetic. He said,
Tamir Gibbs is that kind of player. You give six,
he takes six. And he also said that the lines
were trying to run it more up the middle, too right,
and run it more downhill one.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Because it was that's how you create big plays. And
it wasn't issues to the edge today. It has been
before Today today was not an edge issue.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
For the Giants. I had a lot of big plays
in my career. Most of them came between the tackles.
It wasn't running around the edges and make creating a
big play. You get downhill quickly, use your explosiveness, make
a guy miss and go go to the house. That's
what Jamir Gibbs brought today for two hundred plus yard
two hundred and nineteen to be exact, plus another forty
five receiving and three touchdowns. And I thought James made

(01:19:32):
a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
By the way, there are some analytics studies that say
you'd rather be up by three than be up by
six because it motivates the other team to be more
aggressive to go for a touchdown rather than being satisfied
to play for a field goal. Another reason why going
for it there and makes sense going forward. I didn't
mind that, And it was the play calling. It was

(01:19:53):
the now, all of a sudden, you know that the
Lions are using their timeouts, that if you're gonna throw
the ball, throw on first down, don't don't run on
first throw. On second run, on third run on fourth
just did the sequence didn't make sense throw on forth
They threw on fourth down, yeah they did.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
No, no, no, I'm talking about the one before. Yeah, right,
right right, they threw on fourth down. So regardless, it
was the sequence of plays that were frustrating to me.
And ultimately, you gotta trust your offensive play caller because
he's actually has done a good job in the red
area this year. The Giants, I mean, over the last

(01:20:32):
couple of years have been horrendous in the red I
mean bad and and they're not much better ranking wise
this season, but they have scored a lot more points
than they have in previous years.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Last couple of weeks there I've been some situations they've
been down there. They have not been able to punch
it in there, which has been a problem throughout the
last couple of years as well. To be completely frank,
let's take a time out, we'll come back, continue to
take your calls. Giants TV, presented by Bob's Discount Furniture,
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(01:21:06):
TV shows, and more exclusive video content with Giants TV
time Out will be back more calls after this on
the FED.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
This is Mike Kafka, head coach of the New York Giants,
and you're listening to the radio home of Big Blue
the Fan, WFAN and w f AN FM, New York.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Back here on Giants extra point. Ticky, you would take
another look at that four play sequence after the Giants
had its first and goal at the four.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Yeah, so on Tyrone Tracy running hard, eleven yard run,
gets down to the four yard line. It's first and four.
They run off tackle Tracy to the to the right.
He gets two yards. Then on second down, this is
the play that Jameis Winston talked about extensively. You know,
just missing by four inches to the right, if you'd

(01:21:46):
have thrown it four and just to the left. Theo
Johnson catches a ball, it's a touchdown that they go
up by two scores and there's you know, three minutes
left on the clock and again by no means is
the game over. But you know, the criticism is at
what point in game management theory, because that's what we're
talking about now, Game management theory, do you force the

(01:22:07):
opposing team to use their timeouts so that when they
do eventually get the ball back, it's kind of all
hurry up, and then you, in theory, have an advantage.
And so on first down they run for two yards,
Detroit calls a timeout. On second down you throw an incompletion.
Then on third down you bring in Aaron Stinny, so

(01:22:27):
everybody knows that you're running the ball. You run, you
get nothing, and you're then forced to throw it on
fourth down, which was an incomplete pass. So a series
that started immediate least a goal to go situation that
started with three minutes in nineteen seconds on the clock
ends with two minutes and forty fifty four seconds on

(01:22:50):
the clock, So you used a minute in twenty seconds.
You didn't use nearly enough time in that situation. So
it should be if you're going to throw the ball,
throwt up first down because you're gonna catch everybody by
surprise because it's first down and four a first with
four to go, and then run, run and then maybe
run again. But you got to run clock or at

(01:23:11):
least force them to use time out. So game management theory,
it didn't work in the Giants favor ultimately, All.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Right, let's go to Robbie and Lennox. He's up next, Robbie, Hey, guys,
how you doing good? Go ahead, Robbie, we got you.
I think he broke up. Robbie, I think we got
a We lost, yeah, but we'll try to get you
back up. Let's go to Stephen Rockland in the meantime, Steve,
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Hey, what's up?

Speaker 9 (01:23:34):
So there are a couple of things. First of all,
I think now Giant fans need to understand there there,
and it's been for a while. There's no such a
thing as a moral victory.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Right, no doubt forget that victories matter, not morals victory,
thank you?

Speaker 9 (01:23:52):
Number two? How absurd is it that this defense is
arguably going to have a player who's going to be
a finalist for NFL Defensive Player of the Year, right,
think about that? And number three to Harvey's point, and

(01:24:13):
Bob said it during the radio broadcast that hit on Londell.
If it was college this, I mean, I'm going to
quote him close to verbatim. If this was college, he
would have been thrown out of the game for targeting.
And I want to know if the NFL was so serious.
To Harvey's point, if they're so serious, or if they

(01:24:36):
want to be serious about player safety, why they can't
institute like a replay booth devoted to those teams.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Steve, I'll be honest with you, Steve.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
I don't think if you put that rule on it
would change how defensive players hit it all.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
I really don't.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
I don't think it would make a difference because I'm
not speaking to that play specifically. A lot of times,
the way the receivers are moving coming down from the
jumping catch er, moving their body trying to make a move,
and there's helmet helmet contact.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
A lot of times it's not intentional. It just happens.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Guys are going really fast, so while so while you're
punishing the player, and I understand why you would want
to is it a dangerous play?

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
And Tiki please disagree if you're wrong. No, I think
you're right. I don't think it's gonna change how players
play it.

Speaker 9 (01:25:19):
Okay, that's fair to a point. But I think that
there's an ejection attached to it and it's being reviewed.
That's something that you know, that's something I'm that most
of the time ninety something percent of the time. Yeah,
you'll be able to tell the difference between intense.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Yeah, Steve and Steve you are absolutely right because I
think honestly in this Brian Branch appreciates you call penalty
on Wando Robinson early in this game. I don't think
that was intentional. I think Brian Brian Branch was coming
down to make a play on Wanda Robinson, who, let's
face it, he's five to seven, and so when you
go to make a form tackle and your helmet comes down,

(01:25:57):
you're you're you're gonna unwittingly sometimes contact head to head
and and look, you got a penalty, which is which
was justified and it was the right call. However, the
last thing you want to do he took the words
out of it by putting in a subjective adjudication back

(01:26:18):
into the game is create penalties that are detrimental to
the have the game is going to be played and
the quality of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Do you want a referee in the box making a
judgment call nice to whether a hit to the head
was intentional? Can you imagine your talk shows on Monday
after the Super Bowl, Like let's say, for example, the
Eagles make the Super Bowl and Cooper de jen hits
some guy in the head over the middle, and then
in the fourth quarter you have Keeley Ringo in the
game instead of him, and he gets up an eighty

(01:26:48):
r touchdown play.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
They might burn Philadelphia to the ground if something like
that happened. No, you're right, So it's you just can't
put that kind of I'll use the word, but it's
probably the wrong right context. Power power into somebody who's
not on the field.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
You want to limit the amount of judgment calls. That
that's my always opinion. If you can take the rule
book and limit the amount of judgment calls you're asking
you guys to make in real time as much as
you can.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
That's the goal. Make things black and white. That's adding
a whole other layer into this that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
I mean, if you think the Rougheree discourse is bad,
now just just wait till you do something like that.
I understand Steve, your your goals are noble and they're admirable.
You want to try to get ten injuries out of
the game and blows the head. I'm with you, but
I think that it can get it can get a
little better. Let's start robbing and let us again, Robbie,
what's up?

Speaker 23 (01:27:38):
Hey, guys?

Speaker 24 (01:27:39):
On speak guys. Let me tell you something we all know.
It's not buying aable Mike Cofta as a complete and
facilit Okay, let's start with the third and let's start
with a third and six call? What the hell are
you doing running the ball thirty six? You're trying to
tie the game? You're running the ball third.

Speaker 23 (01:27:52):
Down and six?

Speaker 16 (01:27:53):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 19 (01:27:54):
Tim?

Speaker 23 (01:27:55):
Is that? And then look you what Tiki want to
kick the field and one to six? They would lost
by a point? Supiment And how many times do we
have to see a guy one around?

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
I felt the same way, Robbie, week.

Speaker 23 (01:28:07):
After week after week. We've been seeing this forever and ever.
The last time the Giants had an ultimour linebacker and
tonyal Pierce twenty five years ago. If Mike Mike, I
was Shane. We're keeping this shop. If Joe Shane is
back next year, please, I can't take it anymore.

Speaker 20 (01:28:24):
I was shaven keeping this job.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
Well, I you almost, I gotta tell you, Robbie, and
I look, I agree with you on the on the
if if if they kicked the if they kissed the
field goal and the Giants would lose by a point.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
That's what I felt like was going to happen. I mean,
we've seen it happen one I just you knew what
that was gonna happen. They were gonna be more aggressive
and go for and go for a touchdown as opposed
to settling and being conservative and kicking a field goal
and thus giving the Giants a chance in overtime. But
you know, we John and I were talking about Shane
Bowen before this game, before our show even started, and
in some ways you realize that he's got a hand

(01:29:01):
tied behind his back. He has some really good players
on this defensive side of the ball, Brian Burns being
one of them. But Kavon Thibodeau is out, and he's
probably been playing compromise for the last three weeks prior
to him being out over the last two. Abdul Carter
is a rookie. You look at you know, the the
Paulson Adebo signing, the Javon Holland Siling signing. These were

(01:29:23):
big offseason signings. And again all this is on the
defensive side of the ball. Dexter Lawrence is supposed to
be this elite top end player. None of those guys,
except for maybe Brian Burns, is playing at an an
elite level. And that's not mentioning all the injuries in
the secondary that you've dealt with the last one. And
so here we have Shane Bowen, who's getting a ton

(01:29:44):
of criticism week over week over week. I actually thought
this year, or this game, he called it correctly. He
called it well. He even had an un an un
an ununbl pressures, which is something that's been one of
the worst in the league at creating seventh fewest league
this year. Let's look at what happened in this game.

(01:30:04):
It was misstackles. It was Dame Belton in the whole
seven yard game on Jamior Gibbs completely whiffing with both
hands on his body and he goes forty nine yards
down to the two yard line. He's going a touchdown
on the next play of wide open in the flat.
You have overtime, a sixty nine yard jaunt by Jamiir
Gibbs where everybody's just poorly executing what they're asked to

(01:30:25):
do and they take advantage of it. At what point
is it on the player and not necessarily on the
play call defensively. So I feel like his hands are
tied because what else can he do other than truly
compromising and being risky by bringing all out pressure on
almost every almost every play. You can't do that, And
they're not good enough in their secondary And I understand

(01:30:46):
we're playing. We're playing Zaiir Barnes and Neville Hewett. Those
guys were brought here, Swaysey Boseman to be special team aces.
Swayzy Boseman is getting significant stats in this game. Nick
Jones played a lot in this game. Hory Black wasn't
on this team. Of course. Rico Peyton, I'm like, who
the hell is Rico Peyton? So what do you? You
can't call a defense in any kind of aggressive nature

(01:31:09):
with a with a group of second and third level
players that you simply don't know or trust. Yeah, and look,
I understand you listened to point Total Sticky.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
You just list the point totals. You look at the
fourth quarter points allowed and the collapses that they've had.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:31:25):
I and look, if you look at the overall results,
I understand why fans would want to change, of course,
I totally get it. But when you dig a little
bit deeper, you understand why things are being done the
way they are doesn't mean that they're right. It doesn't
mean it can't be done a little bit better in
certain ways.

Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
And all that stuff. I get all that, but there
are overriding issues that you have to take a look at.

Speaker 16 (01:31:45):
You.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
Let's go to Richie and Queens. He's up next. Say Richie,
good morning.

Speaker 6 (01:31:49):
She say good afternoon, guy, Richie. Hey we still Chadley John.
You know how I feel a defense. It just saw
terrible five hundred yardds, you know. And what it gets
me too, is that that's fine teak, and that they
score how quickly and obviously, you know when somebody scores
and you take to a three minutes off the park,
obviously it can be a positive if you have a lead,

(01:32:11):
but they give it up so quickly, and you know
it's gotten nice guys. And I'm going to sound like
yo guy in Avalcony, okay when and I agree with you.
Take I thought it was terrible coal down at the
one yard line. You know, you throw a pass and
second down and you get caught. And yeah, my feeling was, well,
fort and six, they're going to kick a field goal.
And then I thought, wait a minute. This is an
offensive lead now because if this is three years ago,

(01:32:34):
even three years ago at fourteen six with a three
point lead, my feeling is they don't go for it.
But now it's gotten to a point like, oh my goodness,
we're going to give up a touchdown. You still got
to give up a touchdown? Do I think it was
the most egregious play. I'm not going to second guess it.
I kind of am, but I don't. I can understand
it to a point, but it's gotten to a point

(01:32:54):
now where it's no longer hey, we can stop them
on the defense one time, because they seem like they
don't to a point like, wow, we have to be
up two scores because there's no way we can win
the game up six. No, you're right, points score touchdowns.
So I just it's just it is so frustrating and Cascar.

(01:33:16):
It could be Obviously it would have been a big win.
Winston looked really good, but like like I talked about
John on Saturday, it's when you're bad. You lose ten
to seven, you lose fourteen to ten, and you lose
thirty two.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
You do whatever it takes to lose the game. Richie
is your point. Right. No, that's exactly right. And the
Giants have done this over and over and over and
over again. And in fact, with this loss up by
ten points, the Giants have the most road losses in
NFL season up ten points in NFL history. That's five
road losses up ten points in NFL history. Best thing

(01:33:51):
the nine New England Patriots or the eighty eight ninety
eight Colts for the ninety four of those five ten
point leads have come in the fourth quarter. That's exactly right.
So this is I mean, the defense has been an
issue despite what we just went through, the defense having
the largest cap situation on this team.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
And by the way, I'll say this too, and obviously
when you look at the numbers, even the rankings and
any of the stats, it's much more in the defense
and the offense. But the offense has had some opportunities
in these fourth quarters to bail the defense out and
not give the and not give the defense a chance
to blow the game, right, and they've been able to
hold up their end of the bargain in those spots.

Speaker 1 (01:34:28):
Either, right, No, I mean, they have every opportunity to
make a big play and they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:34:33):
It is uncomplimentary football in the worst possible way. All right,
let's take one more break. We gotta take one more
before you say goodbye. We'll take you up for another
fifteen minutes or so, and then we'll join nets basketball
right here on WFAAMN on the stream.

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
Time out.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
We'll be back with more Giants again. Were on Giants
extra point. They fall to the lines in overtime thirty
four to twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
This is Tyrone Tracy Jr.

Speaker 7 (01:34:55):
And you're listening to Giants football on the fan Wfan
and WFA New York.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Back here on Giants extra point. I just want to
go back Tiki Robbie one of his points he brought up.
I think it was Robbie, maybe it was Richie that
the coverage was a little bit soft, and that's one
of the reasons he gave ball these yards.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Look, they almost give a five hundred yards. It's bad, right,
But I didn't really think this was a bunch of
like dink and dunks soft zone. Now, this wasn't that.
This was SA mostly in the run game, just giving
up massive explosive plays. Now, there were a few in
the past game as well, But yeah, I think I
think you live with those. It was it was this
the lack of being able to stop the run that
drives you insane, because you know that's what the cow

(01:35:34):
or not the Cowboys, and we're watching the Cowboys Eagles game.
You know, that's what the Lions wanted to do and
what the Giants are poor at. And they still ran
for over two hundred and forty yards.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
Yeah, and look, we knew they were going to try
to do it going in and that's exactly what they did.

Speaker 1 (01:35:47):
And by the way, they didn't even run it that much.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
No, we were both said, You're like, why aren't the
Lions run of the ball, dude? And they eventually did,
and they got those big by only.

Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
Had twenty carries. They ran sixty something plays. They had
twenty carries in this game, almost twice as many passes
as they had dropped back five plays, and they ran
the ball twenty times and had two hundred and thirty
seven yards.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
They have crazy the average. Wow, think about that. That's
a lot of yards per Carrics yards. Let's go to
Evan and Sparta in New Jerseys.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
I'm next. Evan, what's up?

Speaker 21 (01:36:21):
Hey, what's on?

Speaker 25 (01:36:22):
Fellas?

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
What's up?

Speaker 6 (01:36:23):
Uh?

Speaker 27 (01:36:23):
Yeah, So I'm kind of pulling an audible a little
bit because I'm what I was calling for was to
complain a little bit about Shane Bowen. You and I
have thought about this in the past, making a change.
Your argument was about, well, who.

Speaker 23 (01:36:38):
Do we have in the hopper right and replace them?

Speaker 27 (01:36:40):
But I'm going to kind of change what I was
going to call about because what I just heard you
say was, well, Thibodeau was heard and we got this
player hurt, and this every team in the league is hurt.

Speaker 6 (01:36:52):
Night.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
You're right, Oh, that's fair. That's fair. It's very true.

Speaker 27 (01:36:55):
That can't be stopping the run. And it's the same
thing that we saw with the DA game in the
Saints game. It has to come back to accountability and
it's not Yes, there is some accountability on the players,
but Shane Bowen has proven that he can't lead this defense.
And the last thing that I'll say is you were
talking about Martindale earlier. Yes, it wasn't it wasn't good

(01:37:20):
in the last run of it. That I will say
he did not have the pieces that we have now.
Our defensive line could be elite and and he could
be doing a lot better.

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
With this This group I appreciate the call.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
I will say this, by the way, he did have
Leonard Williams as the second defensive tackle next to Dexter Lawrence,
and so we didn't have Brian Burns. He did have
Leonard Williams, and Leonard Williams is just as good of
a player, plays a different position.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
Yeah, they had some glue guys though on that team
that were David McKinney being one. Obviously, Julian Love was another.
And so when you when you miss those guys, you
replace them with young players. It's just hard to get
the same experience in like football IQ football knowledge. It
just it takes time to develop that and you see

(01:38:10):
it and the other thing. And you mentioned this from
a depth standpoint because of the injuries that have happened.
Every team gets injured, but it feels like every a
lot of these teams they have those second third level
guys are sex second and third string guys who are
ready for their moments. The Giants feel like their secondary
in particular isn't ready for their moments.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
Yeah, and look, everyone can deal with a one injury
up front or two like Tippet. Look, yeah, Burns and Carter,
you should be okay there, But when you lose three
of your top defensive backs, there are many teams around
the league that can survive that type of group. If
you get a lot of injuries in one spot TV,
that's where it really tends.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
To kill exactly, because then you're having practice squad or
worst players playing. The guys are other practice squad's right,
that's right. So in some some ways that works for you, Like,
for instance, Isaiah Hodgens. I think it's a great pickup
for the Giant. The reason he wasn't on this team.
I'm assuming he's because he wasn't quote unquote explosive enough.
But Isaiah Hodgens was one of the most reliable players

(01:39:08):
on the couple of those really bad Giant teams a
couple of years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
But I will say this, and then you know this
is true that one of the well, Dak Prescott, just
threw it right to an Eagle defensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
There's a flag on the play.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
We'll see if that gets called back, and he gets
twelve men on the field for the Eagles, so it's
probably gonna be called back.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
But wide receivers one of the deepest positions in the NFL,
there are a million wide receivers that can play. Of course,
the two thinnest positions in the National Football League offensive tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Yep, and cornerback. That's correct.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
So you just can't find cornerbacks walking around that can play, right,
It's very, very difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
Let's go to Richard of Manhattan's up next, Richard? What's
going on?

Speaker 19 (01:39:44):
Hi, fellas before I get to Cosca? Dicky one? Right,
if you know you're gonna go for it on fourth down,
it doesn't matter whether it's fourth and three, fourth and nine,
or fourth and fifteen. You're going for it, right, you
do it the other three downs as you read it,
and you make them use all three time outs, right,

(01:40:06):
that's what you have to do. Okay, If you don't
know you're going for it on fourth, then I can understand.
But beforehand, the coach's got and know what he's going
to do. And if he know that, that was bad anyway,
because if you're throwing on fourth, it doesn't matter what
the yardage is. Right right now you have the three

(01:40:27):
timeouts that they used in your pocket. Okay, But I
love Kafka. I love his demeanor on the sideline. I
love him after the game.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
I agree.

Speaker 19 (01:40:37):
I think the players love him. I love the guy.
I mean, so far, we don't have to look for Listen,
Parcels just fell into it when Ray Perkins lasting went
to Alabama. This may be a blessing in disguise. We
don't know, unusual for the Giants to do this, TIKEI
you know, fire a guy. Maybe this is a message

(01:40:58):
from God that this is the man that should have
been here all this time, just like purselves was when
Perkins left, and we you know, we craved Perkins. Yeah,
now that was a big thing getting him for you know,
from New England.

Speaker 23 (01:41:11):
That was like one of the.

Speaker 19 (01:41:12):
Biggest poops that ever happened, right, that was huge back then.
So look into it like that. As long as this
this was one ticky John. This was one of the
most entertaining New York Giant losses I've ever watched.

Speaker 16 (01:41:25):
Really yeah, look, I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
Mean even Bob said this at halftime. Appreciate your coverage.
That's rich. It was an entertaining first half, and I
think it was an entertaining game. The challenge is you
just want to start winning some of these entertaining games,
these entertaining losses or close losses or we can play
with even the best teams in the NFC in particular,
it doesn't do anything for you. That's the thing we

(01:41:46):
said before this game.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
This is probably the toughest game left on the schedule,
might be one of the toughest games on the schedule
all year when you look at the strengths of the
teams when the.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
Giants played them. But when you're two and ten, I'm sorry,
I can't be like, well, at least you played well
against the good things again the earlier Carl with the
moral victories. Who cares about moral victories? You need You
need an actual victory. Yes, you need momentum to go
back your way. And then I think, ultimately maybe that's
what Mike Kofka was trying to do when he goes
for it on fourth down instead of kicking the field goal.

(01:42:15):
Is that you need a win, and so you gotta
be aggressive to get a win because you don't know
when a win changes the tie.

Speaker 2 (01:42:21):
Let's go to Corey on Long Island. He's up next, Cory.
What's happening man? Cory going once, Cory going twice. So
all right, let's go to Dominic and New Rochelle. He
will wrap us up today, Dominic, who's going on, Hey,
what's up guys?

Speaker 20 (01:42:39):
Why why does this why does this defense always collapse
in the fourth quarter? I mean, they just can never finish.
It's very frustrating because this offense has done its job
this year, it really has. And going into this year,
I thought this defense was gonna be an extremely big
time force and they're just not.

Speaker 1 (01:42:58):
Dominic, I thought the same thing. So I thought the
same thing when they spent all the money on Javon
Holland and Paulson Adebo and obviously they got Byron Burns
a year before due Carter, but the talking point was
we know where the strength is going to be the defense,
and it just hasn't be said. For the Giants to
be successful to year, the defense would have to carry him. Right.

Speaker 20 (01:43:18):
We all said it, guy, do you think do you
think a key a big key loss that goes unnoticed
right now is Mick a mix Fadden. He's such a
big on the run defense, right, so big on the
run defense, and nobody talks about that and it goes unnoticed.
But at the end of the game, when Jamier Gibbs
ran off and hit that touchdown in overtime, I mean

(01:43:39):
they said Dexter Lawrence was on the sideline on that game.

Speaker 16 (01:43:41):
I don't know it was an injury or not.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
He was man They were managing his snaps, is the
best way to put it, Dom. I don't know what
that means, but they were managing his snaps.

Speaker 20 (01:43:50):
Easy was nicked up and Deontay Banks, Deontay Banks was
was was inactive. I don't know the reasons for that.
Probably because he stopped performing.

Speaker 1 (01:43:59):
He had a hip he had a hip injury. But
I gotta be honest, I don't know if I missed him.

Speaker 19 (01:44:06):
I didn't. I didn't miss to meet it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Butterback like true, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:44:13):
I appreciate the take it down. Ultimately, we know that
the Giants are a flawed team, especially defensively, because when
you're scoring the points that the Giants have scored twenty
seven points this week, you know twenty points, I mean
they're in double digits. There's only two games this year
against the Chiefs and against the Commanders in the top

(01:44:36):
three weeks of the season where they didn't get to
double digits, where they felt kind of inept and in
a lot of ways. Even the New Orleans game and
that was Jackson Dart's first start. They had control over
most of the game. It was it was the four
turnovers that are actually I think it was five, the
five turnovers in that game that ultimately caused them to

(01:45:00):
put up twenty plus points. But the old narrative about
the Giants they just can't score, they just can't score,
they're bad offensive.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
Wasn't a narrative. It was a fact for the last
three years, right, But I don't think that that's the
case any No, it's not. This Giants team can score.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
And that's why it's so frustrating. And Mike Kafka has
been Kafka has been really good as an offensive coordinator
and a play caller, and you see it and look
is this Is he gonna do enough to keep this job?
I don't think so. But it doesn't mean that he's
not an important part of what's happening, or could be
if dependent on who the new head coach that comes
in is. And I do agree.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
I think the loss of Micah McFadden has been significant.

Speaker 1 (01:45:38):
Now he was a great reading back player. Now he wasn't.
He wasn't elite, wasn't gonna be a pro bowler. But
his ability to read and react and diagnose made him
valuable on that second level for the Giants, and they
don't have that right now. How was the Giants run
defense last two years and mikel McFadden was healthy. Yeah,
that wasn't very good those years either. No, you're right,
You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
So I agree, like they've had a good player and
he would help again throwing on with you, but it's
even goes back to the Wings last year doing one
of the worst run defenses of football. So it's hard
for me to really say what it is right, Like,
they've changed coaches, they've changed people, they've changed everything.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
They changed scheme, they changed everything. The results are exactly
the same.

Speaker 21 (01:46:18):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
You called up at St. Wisest Giant defense falling apart
in the fourth quarter every game.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
If he had the answer, you would be sitting here right,
I'd be a defensive coordinator correct, And I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
Keep it very simple. Your best player's got to make
plays in the most important situation. Ultimately, that's what it
comes down to. And it's it's interesting because I think
we're getting that on offense for a lot of this season.
Your best player, whether it's Jamis right now or Jackson,
Dart Wandol Robinson. Your best players are making the plays
when they need to on the defense side of the

(01:46:49):
ball and moments that matter and the defense you're not
getting that at all, no question about it. About having
good seasons some of them, Brian Burns in particular, but
they're not making the big play when you need them
to make the big play. That's you need to be clutch,
not just good ticks.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
Right by the way, there were twelve men on the
field on that Dak Prescott interception from earlier. Then Ceedee
Lamb dropped. I believe it's its second drop of the
game on a key third down. The Cowboys had the punt.
They trailed the Eagles twenty one to seven behind shitt
or sand There's a couple of touchdowns early haven't done
much since. But the Browns lead the Raiders seventeen to three,
Jaguars lead to Cardinals seventeen to fourteen, and the Falcons

(01:47:25):
are up on the Saint Saints. Just failed on a
fourth and short. The Falcons lead the Saints sixteen to seven.
Looks like the Saints might have the ball back. Now
looks like they have its second goal. Atlanta's one yard line. SOO,
those are the games going on right now, Tiki. We
have a week here, eight days actually before the Giants
play their next game on Monday night against the Patriots.
I know we talked about our broofy beforehand. We're going

(01:47:45):
to see one of the great young quarterbacks in the
National Football League, and they're not quite as explosive offensively
the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
You look at their weapons on the perimeter.

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
Sebom Days a little bit older, but they they and
their schedule hasn't been great this year, no, but they
got a good coach, they got a solid defense, good
defensive front, and they have a quarterback that's just he's
an MVP Cachea.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
I think the biggest thing is Drake May has been
playing at a high level. We rave about Jackson Dart
and his rookie season, and you know, Drake May had
his fits and starts. There were some good things that
we saw last year, but his evolution here is growth
and his sophomore year has been exceptional. Part of that
is because of the offensive coordinator, you know, and I
think the way that this team is coached, it just

(01:48:28):
gives you confidence and from a player standpoint that you're
going to be put in the best position to excel.
And so with Josh McDaniels and Mike Varibole, this Patriots
team is ten and two. They just keep finding ways
to win games, and it's going to be a challenge
for the Giants to go on the road in prime
time up there and play with them. Now, with that

(01:48:49):
being said, do I think the Giants will play with
it play with him?

Speaker 16 (01:48:52):
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
I think it'll be a close game. The question will
be the Giants and win they learn how to win
football games.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
That's well, that's the only thing I think about with
the Giants every week is not oh they're gonna get
blown out. It may happen, but that's not what I thought.
My thought process is. The process is when are you
gonna learn how to win a football game? That's when
my player execution, game management from a coaching standpoint, or
just dumb luck being on your side. They just haven't
had any of it. Dick, you have a great Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
You was well, happy Thanksgiving, and so all the Giant
fans out there listening right now, you guys have a
great Thanksgiving as well. Enjoy your football, your family and
your friends and everything else you do on your Thanksgiving
holiday and the weekend will be with you again next
Monday night. Right here on the fan pregame, it's six fifteen,
right after Tiki and Evan to get you ready for
Giants at the New England Patriots and the Giants they

(01:49:42):
haven't had their bye week, by the way, which is insane.
Where the we're gonna be the first week of December
and the Giants still have not had their bye week.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
But that's where we are.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
Then we all get to enjoy aa weekend off and
O'Connor's got big, big plans to go hang out somewhere
over that weekend, big trip somewhere, big party guy, that
Connor Green.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
He's very much into it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
Thanks for joining us, folks, and all the fans out there,
have a great Thanksgiving as well.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
Giants.

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
Extra Point was brought to you by Citizens, official Bank
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and folks. You can check out covers to the Giants
all week long, including over that Thanksgiving Day weekend on

(01:50:26):
giants dot Com, The Giants will Blaff the Giants YouTube
channel check out everything we do to get you ready
for the Giants and the Patriots in eight days. Giants
Total Podcast comes your way. You can find that on
your favorite podcast platform as well. And then Big Kickoff
Live is live every day at twelve thirty on the
Giants app and the Giants YouTube channel, and the archives
can be found on your podcast platforms as well. For

(01:50:49):
Tiki Barber, for Bob Popacral Banks, Hour Cross, Paul Datino
and our entire crew. Excellent job to everybody. Happy Thanksgiving everybody,
and we will see you next week. Once again, the
Giants fall to the Lions in overtime thirty four to
twenty seven. Let's join NETS Basketball on the fan on
all our stations and streams.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
Coming up next