March 17, 2025 • 26 mins
In this special episode of Gospel Talks, George Binoka sits down with Pastor Joel Mosier from Houston, Texas—a seasoned pastor and Exchange trainer—to discuss his journey into ministry and his passion for relational evangelism. Pastor Joel shares powerful stories of reaching his neighbors, building authentic relationships, and using The Exchange Bible study to lead people to Christ.
From coaching youth sports to starting a neighborhood dinner club, Pastor Joel offers practical insights into how churches and individuals can break through the barriers of modern suburban life to share the gospel effectively. He also provides valuable wisdom on reaching teenagers, shepherding a growing church, and staying faithful in ministry.
If you’ve ever struggled with connecting to your neighbors or wondered how to make evangelism a natural part of your life, this episode is packed with encouragement and real-life application.
📌 Topics Covered:
✔️ Growing up in a pastor’s home and discovering a call to ministry
✔️ Overcoming awkwardness in evangelism
✔️ Practical ways to reach neighbors in a closed-off culture
✔️ Coaching sports as a bridge for gospel conversations
✔️ The power of persistence—how a seven-year friendship led to a Muslim neighbor trusting Christ
Tune in for an inspiring conversation and walk away with actionable steps to make an eternal impact in your own community!
🎧 Listen now and be encouraged to share your faith boldly!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world withrelational evangelism and discipleship becoming more effective in it.
And we're so excited to have Pastor Joel Moser from the Houston, Texas area with us today.
And this is a cool, this is the first of its kind podcast in Gospel Talks in that we'rebringing a pastor, one of our exchange trainers.
(00:22):
I don't know if you guys know this, but Pastor Joel is one of those exchange trainers thatcan travel around to churches.
and do an exchange seminar in your church.
And so it's good to have you on pastor.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is I've been excited and looking forward to this.
Yeah.
Well, I think the audience is excited to hear from somebody else besides me.
So I think that's what's truly exciting here.
(00:43):
Well, let me just start with this.
I tell us your life story.
I mean, how did you end up in Houston?
Go go as far back as you want.
Sure, sure, sure.
So I grew up in a in a pastor's home.
And so my testimony goes
You know, growing up in Sunday school, knowing the gospel, hearing the gospel, probably,you know, having made a profession numerous times, but really not until I was 13 years old
(01:04):
did I think I truly understood what it means to depend upon the righteousness of Christalone.
And then later on in those next, you know, high school, teenage years, really began toconsider what did God
what does God want me to do with my life?
And my senior year in high school, just being absolutely overwhelmed with the desire topreach, to preach, wherever that would be.
(01:27):
I didn't know at the time that it meant to be a pastor.
I just knew that I was to be a preacher.
And so it really was during, I think it was during my college years that God reallycemented
that desire to just be a pastor.
And whether, regardless the size of the congregation, I just wanted to be faithful withthe sheep that God entrusted to me.
(01:49):
And so I went through the normal college seminary, but then also then becoming a youthpastor and then an associate pastor at the same church and
And then finally now 13 years ago, I came to Grace Life there in northwest Houston.
(02:10):
And even though I grew up in Wisconsin, I am now a Texan.
And everyone is an adopted Texan in Texas.
I don't think many of us actually grew up there.
But the great thing about Texas, know, is you're official if you have cowboy boots and
I just went to the rodeo yesterday, so I was wearing my cowboy boots and we're officiallyTexan.
But no, we've been in Northwest Houston at Grace Life for 13 years.
(02:33):
And I want to talk just how did God grow my heart specifically for personal evangelism?
Go back to when I was a youth pastor, fresh out of seminary.
My very first home that we lived in, actually the first apartment that we lived in, therewas a couple that lived right across the hallway, and we began to figure out how were we
(02:56):
going to meet with them.
And I felt like it was like a toddler, relationally.
Having grown up in a pastor's home, really kind of been insular in a Christian bubble, andyet knowing the responsibility to share the gospel.
So that first apartment complex, just awkward.
in all my interactions with unbelieving people.
Our first home there in Tucson, Arizona, across the street, I remember Gabe and his wifeand having them into our house.
(03:23):
And here I'm a 20 something year old and here's a guy who's in his 50s and being able tokind of awkwardly work through the gospel or conversationally.
And it really was then that that was 20 some years ago now.
that I used the exchange in its kind of beginning stages that God began to work into myheart.
(03:45):
What does it mean to build relationships for the gospel?
And so then fast forwarding now into Cypress, Texas, where when I came to Grace Life, itwas a re-
revitalization situation with twenty-some people that first Sunday and now over well overa decade now having seen numerous people come to faith specifically through the
(04:14):
relationships of meeting families at the bus stop coaching soccer teams coachingbasketball teams
first time guests coming to Grace Life.
I could just numerous stories in between there of how God used an inadequate Christian,but having a desire, knowing that it's my responsibility, but not knowing always how the
(04:37):
best way to approach it.
so really God has kind of grown me relationally on what does it mean to build arelationship.
with unbelieving friends and then begin to share the gospel using the exchange Biblestudy.
So I'm just curious a little bit.
Growing up in a pastor's home, I mean, I'm a pastor, but nobody in my family tree, I'm thefirst, my kids are growing up in a pastor's home.
(05:03):
What was it like growing up in a pastor's home?
Was that good or bad?
Because I've heard some bad experiences from PKs.
They call them PKs, pastor's kids.
I loved it.
Yeah.
I think it was great.
Now I know I have other friends who are like, I would never do that.
know, and I mean, looking back on it, you know, there's times where I think, churchmembers shouldn't have said that, or, you know, maybe we're holding us to a higher
(05:24):
standard than necessary.
But man, I loved being on the front row of ministry.
I loved seeing God work in people's lives.
I loved seeing life change.
And so, you know,
You'd ask my parents that by far they were not perfect, but neither were the churches, butI loved everything about it.
I wouldn't change any of it.
(05:45):
And we walked through, you know, my parents had the scars and the wounds of ministry life,and I've got the same bruises, know, now having been in pastoral ministry for 20 years.
But it was nothing but positive for me.
Did you, you said you were a youth pastor for a while there.
How long were you a youth pastor?
How long were you an assistant pastor before you became a senior pastor?
(06:07):
Yeah, so I actually was on staff at two churches.
I was a youth pastor for two and a half years in Tucson, Arizona and absolutely lovedthose kids.
And it was there actually that I was like, I really was like, okay, I am a pastor becauseit was so heartbreaking.
(06:27):
when God moved us.
And then I was for six and a half years, I was a youth pastor for four of those years.
And then I transitioned into the associate pastor role at the same church.
prior to becoming a lead pastor, was in either youth pastoring or that associate role fora total of nine years.
I I assume that your favorite role so far has been the lead pastor, but is that?
(06:51):
Is there something different or do you look back on any one of those and be like I hatedthat phase but it was necessary or?
No, no, I am a, here's the thing.
I'm youthful.
I'm not, I know I'm older now but I love teenagers.
I love fist bumping guys in our lobby.
I love asking them how was work this past week?
(07:13):
How was the test?
I love, you know, the high school girls in our church, you know.
Did you go on a date this past week?
Do I approve of them?
You know, I just love teenagers.
And so I think being a youth pastor for, you know, of those nine years, I guess a total ofsix and a half of them, that really helped me.
(07:34):
yeah, no, so I loved every part.
I wouldn't trade being a senior pastor for anything.
This is exactly what God wired me to do, who he made me to be.
But I look back on those youth pastor years with great fondness and love it.
It's really hard to reach teenagers for some churches and there's a lot of sense in whichthere's a certain type of church that might even despise youth or just look at teenagers
(08:03):
with suspicion or just as all-out rebellion.
So it's good to hear from a youth pastor who's had positive experiences with his teenager.
How do churches reach teenagers?
Let me say this.
I don't think there's any magic formula.
Wear this style of clothing, do this style of hair, this style of music.
(08:25):
I don't think it's anything of that.
Here's what I think it is.
I think if you love people where they're at and you teach them the Bible,
but you do it in a gracious, kind way.
Instead of talking down to them, speaking to them, acknowledging the difficulties of thepassage, acknowledging how that would be difficult to live this way in this type of
(08:47):
culture, and just recognizing that you're on, I'm on your side.
And you know what?
I'm gonna be cheering you on.
And when you fall down, it's okay.
we're going to help you back up or we're going to celebrate that you got back up again.
I think just having, I think teenagers, here's the one thing I teenagers instinctivelyknow, are you legit?
(09:07):
Are you genuine?
And are you, are you, are you in this for me or are you in this for yourself?
And I think just, um, having that kind of motivation check inside.
so teenagers respond, um, to that.
And so I still, you George, in our in our community, the high schools are 4000 kidsapiece.
(09:29):
Wow.
And there's there's three high schools within five miles of us.
Wow.
By the way, the crow flies, they're all 4000.
And when I drive by him, I just pray, God, do an awakening work of your spirit in thelives of our community.
and I actually know that he is in stories I have from teachers and things like that.
(09:50):
But all that to say, just my heart for that God has given me for the next generation.
I think that's it's the next generation, right?
It's the generation that, hey, I'm a permanent interim pastor, and someday, God willing,one of those kids, one of those guys is going to be up here preaching the Word.
So how can I best encourage him?
so that this church has the next healthy pastor.
(10:13):
that's awesome.
Yeah.
So tell us, what is a week in Pastor Joel's life, week to week ministry, what does a weekin Pastor Joel's life look like?
Well, if it's college basketball season, make sure we include our Houston Cougars inthere.
A week in my life.
man, you really want me to just go lit.
Monday, this is what I do.
(10:33):
Sure.
I whenever you want to be comfortable sharing.
Yeah, I mean, we don't have a large staff.
It's myself, our youth pastor, and I have a part-time secretary, right?
So on Mondays, our youth pastor and I meet.
We just talk about the highs and lows of what happened that past weekend.
pray.
And so Mondays for me, light admin stuff, stuff where I'm exhausted from Sunday.
(10:56):
and having preached and then also meetings on Sunday evenings with various church familymembers.
Tuesdays for me are all-day study.
I lock myself into my...
I stay at my house that day and I literally will study from the beginning to the end ofthe day.
wow.
Yeah.
So...
How many hours?
Like 10 hours?
Yeah.
(11:16):
Yeah.
It's an eight to...
It's an eight to 10 hour day.
Wow.
Yeah.
And just...
do as much as I can, try to get as much of that sermon prep done as early in the week as Ipossibly can.
Wednesdays, I leave for the church family, I do more coffee and have lunches with menalmost every week.
Coffee for sure every week on Wednesday.
(11:37):
I recently, here's something I've tried to start doing is just targeting
who are young men, you know, below the age of 25 and making sure that I'm connecting withat least one of our young men once a week.
so I keep track of who those men are and we were either it's just connecting, we praytogether or in some cases we're actually working through books together.
(12:00):
And then I've got shut in visits to do on Wednesday.
So literally I can go from
having coffee with a 20-something year old or eating Tex-Mex with a 20-something year oldand then visiting a 92-year-old shut-in widow who is a member of our church and I love her
dearly.
that's what Thursday is my day off.
then Friday, I get up at an ungodly hour.
(12:22):
I get up super early and just try to knock out my sermon.
Okay, and finish it up and then i'll head into church and finish up with meetings andVisits and stuff like that on friday and saturdays for whatever's whatever's planned
whether it's church or family Okay, yeah, very cool.
Yeah, very cool.
I love that I love that you're sitting down with somebody as young as 25 somebody as oldas 92 I feel like some churches they have one or the other demographic and I always think
(12:49):
that a healthy church if I walk into a church if I come away thinking it's healthy It'sbecause I feel like it's it's a it's a solid
reflection of the demographics of that community overall.
I feel like our churches need to be more reflective of the community.
If we're not means we're failing somewhere in outreach.
I know one of the things that's, I mean, the success and what's happening at your churchis absolutely incredible.
(13:10):
You guys are growing, you guys are getting ready to plant a church out of your church,which is super exciting.
reaching people in your neighborhood is we were talking that a little bit before we cameon the podcast.
But you're actually reaching your neighbors to me, like my neighbors, they click thegarage door opener, they pull into the cul-de-sac, they drive into the garage, click the
opener again.
And like, that's it.
That's as much as I see some of my neighbors.
(13:31):
Some of them are a little bit more friendly, but so how have you done it?
How do you in today's, you know, suburbia, how do you, how do you reach people that are soclosed off?
and, you know, here, here, an additional factor to that is this as well.
You mean you're, you're living in Phoenix where it's hot.
Right.
I'm living in Houston where it is blazing hot as well.
Yeah.
Right.
(13:51):
And so to your point, people hit the hit the garage, go in and it's like, I want to hitthe AC.
The last thing I want to do is be out in this humidity.
Right.
In Houston.
I will say this, you know, we have five kids.
Our oldest three are now young adults, our youngest two high school and now middle school.
It is I will say this, it's a little bit more challenging as the kids get older.
(14:14):
And it's less neighborhood focused as far as their activities.
they're going to this ball game or this practice and they're traveling for this event,driving to work for this.
So there has to be greater intentionality.
But having said that, I can just think of this right now.
My wife and I had the privilege last November, December, to lead our neighbors to theLord.
Wow.
(14:34):
Completely different ages than us.
They're brand new starting life.
You know, having their first child and now children, but it's just being a good neighbor.
So tell me the story on that.
I mean, how did that go start to finish?
Like, what does that even look like?
Yeah, for here's how it is for us.
It's you know, when we're out, know, Tara and I go on a walk after dinner, it starts offwith a wave across the street.
(14:57):
And then the intentionality continues with reaching out, walking over, introducingourselves.
For us in Houston, I don't know what it's like in other areas, but man, there's certaintimes of the year for us.
Halloween is one of the best time to meet our neighbors.
Our entire neighborhood is out.
It's the craziest thing ever.
Is that where you met this couple like yeah Halloween so that was that was the end thatwas kind of the end if I recall correctly my wife would maybe be able to give greater
(15:24):
detail than this but I believe that was the initial conversation and From there it was youknow where then where it went from there.
I'll tell you where it went then it was this you know what Can we just do what did we callit?
We had a name for it.
We called it
a dinner club.
We just said to him, we're like, hey, we'd like to like, hang out with you guys.
(15:47):
Are you okay with that?
And they're new to the neighborhood and we're new.
And it was genuine.
Like I we didn't, you know, like, can we get together in the summer months?
Every two weeks, one time we'll come over to your house.
And we'll bring dessert, you bring you'd make the main and then and we started off at ourhouse where, you know, my wife made the main they bring they brought dessert.
And that's literally how the friendship began.
(16:07):
Yeah.
And really was just this.
I'll say this, even as we went through the exchange Bible study with them, and you know,I'm a pastor too.
So I just acknowledged some of the like, we're neighbors first.
And I just said that to him.
said, I just want you to know upfront, I am your neighbor.
I'm a Christian first.
I'm your neighbor second.
I'm a pastor third.
(16:28):
I just want you to know, no matter what we do with this Bible study,
I'm still going to be your friend and we're still going to hang out for supper club justbecause we like you guys and I think you like us.
And so that's literally how it began.
then.
you're sitting at these dinner club, which by the way, like way better than a book club inmy opinion.
Book club is boring, but you know, a taco club.
(16:49):
mean, I'm down for that any day of the week.
Taco Tuesday.
I need to start some food clubs in my neighborhood.
So you're sitting down with them and so you've
you had this idea and like how many times did you meet with them before like you werecomfortable saying, hey, like by the way, like we're Christians or how did that even go?
Like how did you get them down the topic?
Yeah.
you know, they had, they had different religious background experiences, vastly different.
(17:14):
And I just said to them, I said, you know, guys, I think, I said, I think it would reallyhelp.
your growth, a good, they had a great marriage.
But I said, I think it would just help you guys on the spiritual side, the God side, ifyou will.
You guys have so much in common.
You have the same shared passions, the same shared desires, same shared goals.
(17:34):
But when it comes to the God piece in your life, I really think you guys need to get onthe same page together as a couple.
And I said, here's what I would like to do with you guys.
I'd like to...
you know, we do our dinner club.
Why don't instead of ending it at the end of the summer, why don't we just keep doing andwe switched it because we switched it just because of the work schedules for everybody.
(17:58):
So once the school season started up, I said, well, let's not do dinner.
Let's just do dessert.
Let's do dessert and coffee and let's do the Bible study together.
And so it took us, you know, it didn't we didn't get it done in four weeks.
I mean, it took us a good
Probably two months between work schedules, sicknesses with kids, all that to finally getit done, but to see them both trust in Christ.
(18:23):
Absolutely.
And that's not, so that's not like, that's not been like the standard kind of the standardoperating procedure of how we've, how we have built relationships.
That's just the latest one.
know, prior to that, was,
coaching basketball teams and having all the families over to our house.
And then in those contexts, was just really, it was having conversations and kind ofjiggling relational doorknobs and seeing where God was at work.
(18:50):
And, you know, to use language that we use here with the exchange is right when you findout that you're at a soul level conversation.
So what is that soul level conversation?
What I have found soul level conversation to be is, is there a relational issue at play?
Is there, even to the initial conversation I was just talking about, are there differencesin religious understanding or religious beliefs, faith beliefs?
(19:15):
Even to the point with, I'm thinking of another couple now, so I'm you a different story.
And that couple, she was an atheist.
He was culturally Buddhist.
And walking through the exchange and that where I told one of the things I told them isthere was a lot more conversation of how we got to soul level conversation.
It wasn't just hey you two need to be on the same page, but it was like hey before youjust write God off why don't we actually consider you know who Jesus is and what he's
(19:42):
saying.
So I just went down a lot of differing level conversations.
But George even
thinking about a basketball family that I love dearly that I have not done the exchangeBible study with yet.
It's been 10 years we've maintained the friendship and God willing sometime in the nextfew months I know our families are gonna get together and I plan I have the relational
(20:03):
capital with him now.
That's not the standard I wouldn't say wait that long for everyone by any means but that'show it works.
Yeah, I mean, I think it always it takes time in different different amounts of time Justdepends on the person where God is in drawing them But so sounds like to me like your kids
were a tremendous inroad to the community and then sports which sports So many Christianslook at sports like such an evil thing or a distraction or not the main thing and I
(20:28):
actually know of you and I know of another pastor Tim Potter who Sports was one of themain inroads into the community
You want to talk more about like how kids are an inroad to the community and other thingslike you would recommend about sports and how people can like jump into, I don't know,
Little League or whatever.
Yeah, mean, it's yes.
I mean, I don't know that there's any magic.
I'm trying to think through.
(20:49):
I would just say this.
If it is not by accident that if you are a Christian and you got put on that team, thatGod is at work.
God is at work everywhere.
And so then it's up to us to kind of move those relational doorknobs to see is this thefamily of gods it work with?
I don't know.
Is this the family of gods we work with?
(21:09):
And how do we do that?
We do that through conversation.
We're not dropping God's name the very first conversation, but man, as soon as someonetalks about, know, my kid got bullied on the bus this past week.
man, how did that make you feel?
How did you respond to that?
Right?
All of a sudden, they're trusting you with a level of information that has moved beyondthe soccer game or the basketball game.
(21:35):
And you know that this this friendship now is at a different level.
So now so they're they're they've given you leeway to continue the friendship.
And so it's very, you know, for me, it's
I'm not going to hide, hey, I went to church this past Sunday.
you know, and man, just found it so encouraging.
so those little pieces of conversation, practically what did it look like?
(21:59):
and say, you know, as a coach, instead of, instead of having the year end party, we alwaysdid a party, early in the season and at the year end.
that early on was this, we could, called it team building.
for our little little league baseball or little league soccer or basketball.
But it wasn't just team building for those kids.
It was relationship building for my wife and I to figure out where God is at work withindividuals.
(22:20):
The bus stop has been huge.
The bus stop, especially for elementary kids, man, our bus stop, you get there and...
It's a school bus stop.
School bus stop.
George, I'm gonna start.
I'm fighting back tears here just for a second.
wife, this is my wife, she just led one of our Muslim neighbors to faith in Christ two orthree weeks ago.
(22:42):
How did that start?
It started at the bus stop.
That's seven years in the making.
Seven years of my wife inviting those moms into our house after the bus left, they wouldcome over for coffee.
and something for breakfast.
And was just, it was my wife and five or six other moms.
It wasn't a Bible study.
(23:03):
It was just, let's get together as moms.
And over time that kind of dissipated, but the relationship individually that my wife wasable to keep up now, here we are seven years later, and there's been lots of Jesus
conversation.
But just recently,
She trusted Jesus as her savior.
By the way, that story's on our blog at the exchange.
(23:26):
It's a pretty incredible story, Tara working with this lady and the ministry ofhospitality, the ministry of persistence and prayer and over years and worth it, man,
worth it to win.
It's very hard.
mean, so like, cause your kids aren't in elementary school.
So, does she, does she like, these, these relationships must've started when she had a kidto take to the bus stop and then they continued.
(23:48):
Wow.
And I was, just feel, mean, honestly, even in sharing these stories, I just, they're like,it's like holy ground, right?
It's, it's where God is at work.
So I don't share any of these stories in any way to, to point to me, my wife or anythinglike that, because these are God is God is at work.
Yeah.
But even with, even with now, now we're middle age.
(24:11):
but now here's, here's what I find.
Here's where I think
where God hopefully, I think God is moving us relationally in building relationships inour community, is now we're on the other side.
And Ter and I have now taken the approach of trying to be the aunt and uncle, maybe not tothose little kids, but to their parents, right?
(24:34):
They're in their 20s, we're in our 40s.
And here's what I think a good aunt and uncle do.
They're just going to cheerlead and be the best encouragers to those young parents.
I just know that the people that are the most influential in my life have been the peoplethat have been the most encouraging and have affirmed areas where they have seen either
(24:58):
growth or grace in my life.
And so if we see common grace in
our unbelieving friends in our neighborhood, I just I'm going to stop right there and say,hey, listen, I just want you to know that is being a really good dad.
What you just said right there about your wife, that's a good husband.
Keep it up.
Or that's being a really good boyfriend.
(25:19):
Keep it up.
know, and all of a sudden, when you when you start affirming, no one talks like that inour culture.
Yeah.
And so if you can affirm, not from manipulation, but out of a genuine authenticity thatthat genuinely was being a good dad or good husband.
Well, we want more families like that in our culture, but in doing so then there's agreater open door.
(25:42):
There's a door open door now for greater ministry down the road.
That's awesome.
Well, before we close this out, think one of the most important things that we justtouched on is
We don't take the credit for any of this.
I think that's one of the primary distinctions between King Saul and King David is towardswhere Saul went wrong is he not only made his agenda more important than God's and how he
handled the Agagites, but he took credit.
(26:04):
He took the glory and David was humble and knew the credit belonged to God.
And so we should never take God's credit.
And it's a dangerous position to put your ministry and put your life in.
so God's God's favors on those that are humble.
And so we know all of this is done in God's power and grace, which is also also relievingbecause we don't have to try to do something that only God can do, which is a formula for
(26:28):
disaster.
But instead, we're just on our knees waiting for him.
So, well, Pastor Joel Mann, thank you so much for joining the podcast and giving us someof your time sharing your story.
Thank you so much.
This is a privilege.
Thank you, George.
You got it.
Well guys, we will see you next week and hoping to introduce you guys to Pastor Brad nextweek and looking forward to his story as well.
(26:49):
Lord bless you, we love you guys.
See you later.
Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world withrelational evangelism and discipleship becoming more effective in it.
And we're so excited to have Pastor Joel Moser from the Houston, Texas area with us today.
And this is a cool, this is the first of its kind podcast in Gospel Talks in that we'rebringing a pastor, one of our exchange trainers.
(00:22):
I don't know if you guys know this, but Pastor Joel is one of those exchange trainers thatcan travel around to churches.
and do an exchange seminar in your church.
And so it's good to have you on pastor.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is I've been excited and looking forward to this.
Yeah.
Well, I think the audience is excited to hear from somebody else besides me.
So I think that's what's truly exciting here.
(00:43):
Well, let me just start with this.
I tell us your life story.
I mean, how did you end up in Houston?
Go go as far back as you want.
Sure, sure, sure.
So I grew up in a in a pastor's home.
And so my testimony goes
You know, growing up in Sunday school, knowing the gospel, hearing the gospel, probably,you know, having made a profession numerous times, but really not until I was 13 years old
(01:04):
did I think I truly understood what it means to depend upon the righteousness of Christalone.
And then later on in those next, you know, high school, teenage years, really began toconsider what did God
what does God want me to do with my life?
And my senior year in high school, just being absolutely overwhelmed with the desire topreach, to preach, wherever that would be.
(01:27):
I didn't know at the time that it meant to be a pastor.
I just knew that I was to be a preacher.
And so it really was during, I think it was during my college years that God reallycemented
that desire to just be a pastor.
And whether, regardless the size of the congregation, I just wanted to be faithful withthe sheep that God entrusted to me.
(01:49):
And so I went through the normal college seminary, but then also then becoming a youthpastor and then an associate pastor at the same church and
And then finally now 13 years ago, I came to Grace Life there in northwest Houston.
(02:10):
And even though I grew up in Wisconsin, I am now a Texan.
And everyone is an adopted Texan in Texas.
I don't think many of us actually grew up there.
But the great thing about Texas, know, is you're official if you have cowboy boots and
I just went to the rodeo yesterday, so I was wearing my cowboy boots and we're officiallyTexan.
But no, we've been in Northwest Houston at Grace Life for 13 years.
(02:33):
And I want to talk just how did God grow my heart specifically for personal evangelism?
Go back to when I was a youth pastor, fresh out of seminary.
My very first home that we lived in, actually the first apartment that we lived in, therewas a couple that lived right across the hallway, and we began to figure out how were we
(02:56):
going to meet with them.
And I felt like it was like a toddler, relationally.
Having grown up in a pastor's home, really kind of been insular in a Christian bubble, andyet knowing the responsibility to share the gospel.
So that first apartment complex, just awkward.
in all my interactions with unbelieving people.
Our first home there in Tucson, Arizona, across the street, I remember Gabe and his wifeand having them into our house.
(03:23):
And here I'm a 20 something year old and here's a guy who's in his 50s and being able tokind of awkwardly work through the gospel or conversationally.
And it really was then that that was 20 some years ago now.
that I used the exchange in its kind of beginning stages that God began to work into myheart.
(03:45):
What does it mean to build relationships for the gospel?
And so then fast forwarding now into Cypress, Texas, where when I came to Grace Life, itwas a re-
revitalization situation with twenty-some people that first Sunday and now over well overa decade now having seen numerous people come to faith specifically through the
(04:14):
relationships of meeting families at the bus stop coaching soccer teams coachingbasketball teams
first time guests coming to Grace Life.
I could just numerous stories in between there of how God used an inadequate Christian,but having a desire, knowing that it's my responsibility, but not knowing always how the
(04:37):
best way to approach it.
so really God has kind of grown me relationally on what does it mean to build arelationship.
with unbelieving friends and then begin to share the gospel using the exchange Biblestudy.
So I'm just curious a little bit.
Growing up in a pastor's home, I mean, I'm a pastor, but nobody in my family tree, I'm thefirst, my kids are growing up in a pastor's home.
(05:03):
What was it like growing up in a pastor's home?
Was that good or bad?
Because I've heard some bad experiences from PKs.
They call them PKs, pastor's kids.
I loved it.
Yeah.
I think it was great.
Now I know I have other friends who are like, I would never do that.
know, and I mean, looking back on it, you know, there's times where I think, churchmembers shouldn't have said that, or, you know, maybe we're holding us to a higher
(05:24):
standard than necessary.
But man, I loved being on the front row of ministry.
I loved seeing God work in people's lives.
I loved seeing life change.
And so, you know,
You'd ask my parents that by far they were not perfect, but neither were the churches, butI loved everything about it.
I wouldn't change any of it.
(05:45):
And we walked through, you know, my parents had the scars and the wounds of ministry life,and I've got the same bruises, know, now having been in pastoral ministry for 20 years.
But it was nothing but positive for me.
Did you, you said you were a youth pastor for a while there.
How long were you a youth pastor?
How long were you an assistant pastor before you became a senior pastor?
(06:07):
Yeah, so I actually was on staff at two churches.
I was a youth pastor for two and a half years in Tucson, Arizona and absolutely lovedthose kids.
And it was there actually that I was like, I really was like, okay, I am a pastor becauseit was so heartbreaking.
(06:27):
when God moved us.
And then I was for six and a half years, I was a youth pastor for four of those years.
And then I transitioned into the associate pastor role at the same church.
prior to becoming a lead pastor, was in either youth pastoring or that associate role fora total of nine years.
I I assume that your favorite role so far has been the lead pastor, but is that?
(06:51):
Is there something different or do you look back on any one of those and be like I hatedthat phase but it was necessary or?
No, no, I am a, here's the thing.
I'm youthful.
I'm not, I know I'm older now but I love teenagers.
I love fist bumping guys in our lobby.
I love asking them how was work this past week?
(07:13):
How was the test?
I love, you know, the high school girls in our church, you know.
Did you go on a date this past week?
Do I approve of them?
You know, I just love teenagers.
And so I think being a youth pastor for, you know, of those nine years, I guess a total ofsix and a half of them, that really helped me.
(07:34):
yeah, no, so I loved every part.
I wouldn't trade being a senior pastor for anything.
This is exactly what God wired me to do, who he made me to be.
But I look back on those youth pastor years with great fondness and love it.
It's really hard to reach teenagers for some churches and there's a lot of sense in whichthere's a certain type of church that might even despise youth or just look at teenagers
(08:03):
with suspicion or just as all-out rebellion.
So it's good to hear from a youth pastor who's had positive experiences with his teenager.
How do churches reach teenagers?
Let me say this.
I don't think there's any magic formula.
Wear this style of clothing, do this style of hair, this style of music.
(08:25):
I don't think it's anything of that.
Here's what I think it is.
I think if you love people where they're at and you teach them the Bible,
but you do it in a gracious, kind way.
Instead of talking down to them, speaking to them, acknowledging the difficulties of thepassage, acknowledging how that would be difficult to live this way in this type of
(08:47):
culture, and just recognizing that you're on, I'm on your side.
And you know what?
I'm gonna be cheering you on.
And when you fall down, it's okay.
we're going to help you back up or we're going to celebrate that you got back up again.
I think just having, I think teenagers, here's the one thing I teenagers instinctivelyknow, are you legit?
(09:07):
Are you genuine?
And are you, are you, are you in this for me or are you in this for yourself?
And I think just, um, having that kind of motivation check inside.
so teenagers respond, um, to that.
And so I still, you George, in our in our community, the high schools are 4000 kidsapiece.
(09:29):
Wow.
And there's there's three high schools within five miles of us.
Wow.
By the way, the crow flies, they're all 4000.
And when I drive by him, I just pray, God, do an awakening work of your spirit in thelives of our community.
and I actually know that he is in stories I have from teachers and things like that.
(09:50):
But all that to say, just my heart for that God has given me for the next generation.
I think that's it's the next generation, right?
It's the generation that, hey, I'm a permanent interim pastor, and someday, God willing,one of those kids, one of those guys is going to be up here preaching the Word.
So how can I best encourage him?
so that this church has the next healthy pastor.
(10:13):
that's awesome.
Yeah.
So tell us, what is a week in Pastor Joel's life, week to week ministry, what does a weekin Pastor Joel's life look like?
Well, if it's college basketball season, make sure we include our Houston Cougars inthere.
A week in my life.
man, you really want me to just go lit.
Monday, this is what I do.
(10:33):
Sure.
I whenever you want to be comfortable sharing.
Yeah, I mean, we don't have a large staff.
It's myself, our youth pastor, and I have a part-time secretary, right?
So on Mondays, our youth pastor and I meet.
We just talk about the highs and lows of what happened that past weekend.
pray.
And so Mondays for me, light admin stuff, stuff where I'm exhausted from Sunday.
(10:56):
and having preached and then also meetings on Sunday evenings with various church familymembers.
Tuesdays for me are all-day study.
I lock myself into my...
I stay at my house that day and I literally will study from the beginning to the end ofthe day.
wow.
Yeah.
So...
How many hours?
Like 10 hours?
Yeah.
(11:16):
Yeah.
It's an eight to...
It's an eight to 10 hour day.
Wow.
Yeah.
And just...
do as much as I can, try to get as much of that sermon prep done as early in the week as Ipossibly can.
Wednesdays, I leave for the church family, I do more coffee and have lunches with menalmost every week.
Coffee for sure every week on Wednesday.
(11:37):
I recently, here's something I've tried to start doing is just targeting
who are young men, you know, below the age of 25 and making sure that I'm connecting withat least one of our young men once a week.
so I keep track of who those men are and we were either it's just connecting, we praytogether or in some cases we're actually working through books together.
(12:00):
And then I've got shut in visits to do on Wednesday.
So literally I can go from
having coffee with a 20-something year old or eating Tex-Mex with a 20-something year oldand then visiting a 92-year-old shut-in widow who is a member of our church and I love her
dearly.
that's what Thursday is my day off.
then Friday, I get up at an ungodly hour.
(12:22):
I get up super early and just try to knock out my sermon.
Okay, and finish it up and then i'll head into church and finish up with meetings andVisits and stuff like that on friday and saturdays for whatever's whatever's planned
whether it's church or family Okay, yeah, very cool.
Yeah, very cool.
I love that I love that you're sitting down with somebody as young as 25 somebody as oldas 92 I feel like some churches they have one or the other demographic and I always think
(12:49):
that a healthy church if I walk into a church if I come away thinking it's healthy It'sbecause I feel like it's it's a it's a solid
reflection of the demographics of that community overall.
I feel like our churches need to be more reflective of the community.
If we're not means we're failing somewhere in outreach.
I know one of the things that's, I mean, the success and what's happening at your churchis absolutely incredible.
(13:10):
You guys are growing, you guys are getting ready to plant a church out of your church,which is super exciting.
reaching people in your neighborhood is we were talking that a little bit before we cameon the podcast.
But you're actually reaching your neighbors to me, like my neighbors, they click thegarage door opener, they pull into the cul-de-sac, they drive into the garage, click the
opener again.
And like, that's it.
That's as much as I see some of my neighbors.
(13:31):
Some of them are a little bit more friendly, but so how have you done it?
How do you in today's, you know, suburbia, how do you, how do you reach people that are soclosed off?
and, you know, here, here, an additional factor to that is this as well.
You mean you're, you're living in Phoenix where it's hot.
Right.
I'm living in Houston where it is blazing hot as well.
Yeah.
Right.
(13:51):
And so to your point, people hit the hit the garage, go in and it's like, I want to hitthe AC.
The last thing I want to do is be out in this humidity.
Right.
In Houston.
I will say this, you know, we have five kids.
Our oldest three are now young adults, our youngest two high school and now middle school.
It is I will say this, it's a little bit more challenging as the kids get older.
(14:14):
And it's less neighborhood focused as far as their activities.
they're going to this ball game or this practice and they're traveling for this event,driving to work for this.
So there has to be greater intentionality.
But having said that, I can just think of this right now.
My wife and I had the privilege last November, December, to lead our neighbors to theLord.
Wow.
(14:34):
Completely different ages than us.
They're brand new starting life.
You know, having their first child and now children, but it's just being a good neighbor.
So tell me the story on that.
I mean, how did that go start to finish?
Like, what does that even look like?
Yeah, for here's how it is for us.
It's you know, when we're out, know, Tara and I go on a walk after dinner, it starts offwith a wave across the street.
(14:57):
And then the intentionality continues with reaching out, walking over, introducingourselves.
For us in Houston, I don't know what it's like in other areas, but man, there's certaintimes of the year for us.
Halloween is one of the best time to meet our neighbors.
Our entire neighborhood is out.
It's the craziest thing ever.
Is that where you met this couple like yeah Halloween so that was that was the end thatwas kind of the end if I recall correctly my wife would maybe be able to give greater
(15:24):
detail than this but I believe that was the initial conversation and From there it was youknow where then where it went from there.
I'll tell you where it went then it was this you know what Can we just do what did we callit?
We had a name for it.
We called it
a dinner club.
We just said to him, we're like, hey, we'd like to like, hang out with you guys.
(15:47):
Are you okay with that?
And they're new to the neighborhood and we're new.
And it was genuine.
Like I we didn't, you know, like, can we get together in the summer months?
Every two weeks, one time we'll come over to your house.
And we'll bring dessert, you bring you'd make the main and then and we started off at ourhouse where, you know, my wife made the main they bring they brought dessert.
And that's literally how the friendship began.
(16:07):
Yeah.
And really was just this.
I'll say this, even as we went through the exchange Bible study with them, and you know,I'm a pastor too.
So I just acknowledged some of the like, we're neighbors first.
And I just said that to him.
said, I just want you to know upfront, I am your neighbor.
I'm a Christian first.
I'm your neighbor second.
I'm a pastor third.
(16:28):
I just want you to know, no matter what we do with this Bible study,
I'm still going to be your friend and we're still going to hang out for supper club justbecause we like you guys and I think you like us.
And so that's literally how it began.
then.
you're sitting at these dinner club, which by the way, like way better than a book club inmy opinion.
Book club is boring, but you know, a taco club.
(16:49):
mean, I'm down for that any day of the week.
Taco Tuesday.
I need to start some food clubs in my neighborhood.
So you're sitting down with them and so you've
you had this idea and like how many times did you meet with them before like you werecomfortable saying, hey, like by the way, like we're Christians or how did that even go?
Like how did you get them down the topic?
Yeah.
you know, they had, they had different religious background experiences, vastly different.
(17:14):
And I just said to them, I said, you know, guys, I think, I said, I think it would reallyhelp.
your growth, a good, they had a great marriage.
But I said, I think it would just help you guys on the spiritual side, the God side, ifyou will.
You guys have so much in common.
You have the same shared passions, the same shared desires, same shared goals.
(17:34):
But when it comes to the God piece in your life, I really think you guys need to get onthe same page together as a couple.
And I said, here's what I would like to do with you guys.
I'd like to...
you know, we do our dinner club.
Why don't instead of ending it at the end of the summer, why don't we just keep doing andwe switched it because we switched it just because of the work schedules for everybody.
(17:58):
So once the school season started up, I said, well, let's not do dinner.
Let's just do dessert.
Let's do dessert and coffee and let's do the Bible study together.
And so it took us, you know, it didn't we didn't get it done in four weeks.
I mean, it took us a good
Probably two months between work schedules, sicknesses with kids, all that to finally getit done, but to see them both trust in Christ.
(18:23):
Absolutely.
And that's not, so that's not like, that's not been like the standard kind of the standardoperating procedure of how we've, how we have built relationships.
That's just the latest one.
know, prior to that, was,
coaching basketball teams and having all the families over to our house.
And then in those contexts, was just really, it was having conversations and kind ofjiggling relational doorknobs and seeing where God was at work.
(18:50):
And, you know, to use language that we use here with the exchange is right when you findout that you're at a soul level conversation.
So what is that soul level conversation?
What I have found soul level conversation to be is, is there a relational issue at play?
Is there, even to the initial conversation I was just talking about, are there differencesin religious understanding or religious beliefs, faith beliefs?
(19:15):
Even to the point with, I'm thinking of another couple now, so I'm you a different story.
And that couple, she was an atheist.
He was culturally Buddhist.
And walking through the exchange and that where I told one of the things I told them isthere was a lot more conversation of how we got to soul level conversation.
It wasn't just hey you two need to be on the same page, but it was like hey before youjust write God off why don't we actually consider you know who Jesus is and what he's
(19:42):
saying.
So I just went down a lot of differing level conversations.
But George even
thinking about a basketball family that I love dearly that I have not done the exchangeBible study with yet.
It's been 10 years we've maintained the friendship and God willing sometime in the nextfew months I know our families are gonna get together and I plan I have the relational
(20:03):
capital with him now.
That's not the standard I wouldn't say wait that long for everyone by any means but that'show it works.
Yeah, I mean, I think it always it takes time in different different amounts of time Justdepends on the person where God is in drawing them But so sounds like to me like your kids
were a tremendous inroad to the community and then sports which sports So many Christianslook at sports like such an evil thing or a distraction or not the main thing and I
(20:28):
actually know of you and I know of another pastor Tim Potter who Sports was one of themain inroads into the community
You want to talk more about like how kids are an inroad to the community and other thingslike you would recommend about sports and how people can like jump into, I don't know,
Little League or whatever.
Yeah, mean, it's yes.
I mean, I don't know that there's any magic.
I'm trying to think through.
(20:49):
I would just say this.
If it is not by accident that if you are a Christian and you got put on that team, thatGod is at work.
God is at work everywhere.
And so then it's up to us to kind of move those relational doorknobs to see is this thefamily of gods it work with?
I don't know.
Is this the family of gods we work with?
(21:09):
And how do we do that?
We do that through conversation.
We're not dropping God's name the very first conversation, but man, as soon as someonetalks about, know, my kid got bullied on the bus this past week.
man, how did that make you feel?
How did you respond to that?
Right?
All of a sudden, they're trusting you with a level of information that has moved beyondthe soccer game or the basketball game.
(21:35):
And you know that this this friendship now is at a different level.
So now so they're they're they've given you leeway to continue the friendship.
And so it's very, you know, for me, it's
I'm not going to hide, hey, I went to church this past Sunday.
you know, and man, just found it so encouraging.
so those little pieces of conversation, practically what did it look like?
(21:59):
and say, you know, as a coach, instead of, instead of having the year end party, we alwaysdid a party, early in the season and at the year end.
that early on was this, we could, called it team building.
for our little little league baseball or little league soccer or basketball.
But it wasn't just team building for those kids.
It was relationship building for my wife and I to figure out where God is at work withindividuals.
(22:20):
The bus stop has been huge.
The bus stop, especially for elementary kids, man, our bus stop, you get there and...
It's a school bus stop.
School bus stop.
George, I'm gonna start.
I'm fighting back tears here just for a second.
wife, this is my wife, she just led one of our Muslim neighbors to faith in Christ two orthree weeks ago.
(22:42):
How did that start?
It started at the bus stop.
That's seven years in the making.
Seven years of my wife inviting those moms into our house after the bus left, they wouldcome over for coffee.
and something for breakfast.
And was just, it was my wife and five or six other moms.
It wasn't a Bible study.
(23:03):
It was just, let's get together as moms.
And over time that kind of dissipated, but the relationship individually that my wife wasable to keep up now, here we are seven years later, and there's been lots of Jesus
conversation.
But just recently,
She trusted Jesus as her savior.
By the way, that story's on our blog at the exchange.
(23:26):
It's a pretty incredible story, Tara working with this lady and the ministry ofhospitality, the ministry of persistence and prayer and over years and worth it, man,
worth it to win.
It's very hard.
mean, so like, cause your kids aren't in elementary school.
So, does she, does she like, these, these relationships must've started when she had a kidto take to the bus stop and then they continued.
(23:48):
Wow.
And I was, just feel, mean, honestly, even in sharing these stories, I just, they're like,it's like holy ground, right?
It's, it's where God is at work.
So I don't share any of these stories in any way to, to point to me, my wife or anythinglike that, because these are God is God is at work.
Yeah.
But even with, even with now, now we're middle age.
(24:11):
but now here's, here's what I find.
Here's where I think
where God hopefully, I think God is moving us relationally in building relationships inour community, is now we're on the other side.
And Ter and I have now taken the approach of trying to be the aunt and uncle, maybe not tothose little kids, but to their parents, right?
(24:34):
They're in their 20s, we're in our 40s.
And here's what I think a good aunt and uncle do.
They're just going to cheerlead and be the best encouragers to those young parents.
I just know that the people that are the most influential in my life have been the peoplethat have been the most encouraging and have affirmed areas where they have seen either
(24:58):
growth or grace in my life.
And so if we see common grace in
our unbelieving friends in our neighborhood, I just I'm going to stop right there and say,hey, listen, I just want you to know that is being a really good dad.
What you just said right there about your wife, that's a good husband.
Keep it up.
Or that's being a really good boyfriend.
(25:19):
Keep it up.
know, and all of a sudden, when you when you start affirming, no one talks like that inour culture.
Yeah.
And so if you can affirm, not from manipulation, but out of a genuine authenticity thatthat genuinely was being a good dad or good husband.
Well, we want more families like that in our culture, but in doing so then there's agreater open door.
(25:42):
There's a door open door now for greater ministry down the road.
That's awesome.
Well, before we close this out, think one of the most important things that we justtouched on is
We don't take the credit for any of this.
I think that's one of the primary distinctions between King Saul and King David is towardswhere Saul went wrong is he not only made his agenda more important than God's and how he
handled the Agagites, but he took credit.
(26:04):
He took the glory and David was humble and knew the credit belonged to God.
And so we should never take God's credit.
And it's a dangerous position to put your ministry and put your life in.
so God's God's favors on those that are humble.
And so we know all of this is done in God's power and grace, which is also also relievingbecause we don't have to try to do something that only God can do, which is a formula for
(26:28):
disaster.
But instead, we're just on our knees waiting for him.
So, well, Pastor Joel Mann, thank you so much for joining the podcast and giving us someof your time sharing your story.
Thank you so much.
This is a privilege.
Thank you, George.
You got it.
Well guys, we will see you next week and hoping to introduce you guys to Pastor Brad nextweek and looking forward to his story as well.
(26:49):
Lord bless you, we love you guys.
See you later.
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