Rail precincts don't always feel like the safest places to be for women, girls and the gender diverse, particularly after dark.
Alert and constantly on guard, it's a relentless navigation of sightlines, lighting, exposure, surveillance and positioning for safety.
As designers, we believe we can do more than simply meet the governing standards and technical requirements demanded of rail stations - we can change the way people feel while using them, creating a more equitable and prosperous society.
Hassell partnered with the team at Monash University's XYX Lab to gather data and a better understanding of the design elements that shape women's perceptions of safety. What we discovered was that through materiality, better lighting design, wayfinding, sightlines and even access to toilets - we can make a big difference into how safe many parts of our population feel.
To explore the findings and see how Hassell is embedding them into our design process on our projects, we brought Principles Alix Smith and Chris Lamborn together with Associate Professor Nicole Kalms for an episode of Hassell Talks.
This episode was recorded in Naarm, on the lands of the Wurundjeri Woi-Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to Elders past and present, and acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the land we live and work on.
This episode was produced by Prue Vincent, Julia Mahony and Annie Scapetis.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(gentle music)
- From Hassell, anaward-winning architecture
and design practise,this is "Hassell Talks".
I'm Alix Smith.
I'm a Principal at Hassell,
predominantly based inthe Melbourne studio.
In case you hear any sort of coos
or cries in the background,
I am recording this on the bed
(00:20):
with my seven-week-old baby girl, Clover.
(Clover coos)
(laughs) Right on cue.
(gentle music)
I started catching the train to school
when I was 10-years-old
and the sort of preparation
that my parents gave me to undertake
(00:42):
that transition in my life made me feel
like a train was notnecessarily a safe place
to be as a woman.
You had to kind of keepyour wits about you
and always sort ofnotice who's around you,
position yourself near people
that you feel are safe,
places that you feel visible and seen,
not sort of hidden.
(01:03):
And think about not just
when you're at the train
but the journey to thetrain or from the train.
(car running)
It took me a really longtime to feel comfortable
catching a train atnighttime, for example.
And even then, you sort of work
out little methods to keep yourself safe.
You know, holding your keys in your hand,
(01:23):
for example, having your phone ready
to call someone
or even faking a phone call at times.
It's not always an enjoyable experience
getting from A to B.
One of the people who'sbeen looking closely
at this topic andresearching it for a number
of years is the AssociateProfessor and Director
of Monash University'sXYX Lab, Nicole Kalms.
(01:46):
- We're a team of researchers
that explore gendersensitive design practises.
And our research operatesat the intersection
of gender and identity
and urban space and advocacy.
- XYX lab understandthat more often than not,
the build environment is not designed
with women and girls in mind.
- We live in a world that is not equal
(02:09):
and that gender bias and inequality
affects the built environment.
These forms of gender based biases
really affect the way we find our place
in the world.
They lead to messagesthat are both subtle,
but also not very subtle,
that we don't belong in public space,
particularly if you're a woman.
They can often lead to women
and gender diverse peoplebeing very vigilant
(02:31):
about the way they occupy public spaces.
So thinking very carefully about
where they will and won't go.
And often that means that they are always
on guard which is incredibly exhausting
and requires a lot of emotional work.
We find that there's a lack of agency
for women and girls andgender diverse people
which means they can't actually
(02:51):
influence public space.
So this all becomes a huge kind of cycle.
And we couple that with the fact
that the built environment is a profession
and policy making and politics
as a system is dominated by men
and we kind of have a pretty biassed
and unequal environmentthat we're operating in.
So gender sensitive designis a way of thinking
(03:11):
about them more carefully and kind
of speaking to some of those challenges
and indeed designingagainst those challenges.
- Hassell partnered with XYX Lab
and we undertook a research piece together
to look at the perceptions of safety
for women and girls in the rail space,
particularly at suburban rail stations
(03:34):
and how women and girlsmay change their behaviour
around these spaces depending
on how they're designed.
- The importance of this research lies
in the fact that womenand gender diverse people
are limited in theircapacity to participate
in public life and in their working lives
and to access health and wellbeing,
all of these things, it's much bigger
than just kind of thinking we need
(03:57):
to deploy gender sensitive design.
The capacity for it to impact
other things is huge.
So if we both locally and nationally
and internationally startto detail the processes
for this kind of change,
then what that reallylooks like is making sure
that we include the people
who we hope will presumablybenefit from the work
(04:19):
that we do in the design process.
- It's been a reallyhelpful piece of research
to refer to in our design review process.
For example, when we'relooking at a variety
of different options for materiality,
for example, thinking about which one
of those may be more uplifting
(04:40):
or may make people feel safe.
And it's a very qualitative thing
but it helps sort of provide a backdrop
for that discussion.
Another really helpful thing is talking
about way finding view lines,
passive surveillance andhow we can shape spaces
and move the differentmasses of the built form
(05:00):
to enable clearer sightlines and sort of places
of refuge for women and girls as well.
- So some of the recurring themes
that we are identifying in the research
that we do particularly
around public transport spaces
and public space more broadly,
it's around visibility and wayfinding.
It's around the waysthat we surveil spaces
(05:23):
with both kind of people in terms
of protective servicesofficers, but also CCTV,
which is a kind of digitalform of surveillance.
We have a lot of research around toilets
and materiality and lighting.
So lighting and particularly poor lighting
really dominates the research
(05:44):
that we do time and again.
And it's a very standard reason that women
and gender diverse peoplegive for feeling unsafe
and being unsafe in public places.
And this is across public transport
and public spaces more broadly.
What we're talking aboutwhen we are thinking
about poor lighting is poorlydesigned lighting systems
with lights that are too bright
(06:05):
or spaced too far apart.
And surprisingly,there's often discussions
around over lighting, so lights
that are just really,really, really too bright
or spotlighting particular aspects
of public spaces.
So what we know when we think
about lighting is that good lighting
can really supportwomen's feelings of safety
particularly when they'reusing spaces obviously
(06:26):
after dark but also at dusk and dawn.
So there's kind of liminal hours.
- The research, it really challenged us
as designers but also challenges the sort
of stakeholders and rail operators
and the government supporting these spaces
to really look at howthe sort of the standards
and rules and regulations
that shape these spaces,
(06:47):
how they impact these experiences
of women and girls.
- We are really kind of thinking
very carefully about how we can start
to prioritise this environmental aspect
for women and gender diverse people
because it really is such a huge factor
in the ways that they'reorientating themselves,
navigating public spaces, but also,
about the ways they just feel
about being in public spaces.
(07:08):
Lighting is at very particular levels
for CCTV surveillance and then
what you've kind of gotis a very over lit space
where women can feel like kind
of lit up like a Christmastree if you like.
There's a huge set of specification
and legislation around lighting
but this one size fit all approach
(07:29):
really restricts designers to be able
to kind of engage in anuanced way with things
like layered lightingand integrating lighting
that might really shapewomen's perceptions of safety.
- The study that was done by XYX Lab
was great because it challenges some
of the common thoughts and perceptions
that are out there about
what safety actually means and helps
(07:52):
to improve that outcome by designing
for gender specific requirements.
- That's Chris Lamborn.
He's a Principal at Hassell.
He's been involved in transport design
for over 20 years and was closely involved
in the research work with XYX Lab.
- There's technicalrequirements and standards
for a project that theproject needs to meet
(08:12):
and they're critical
to make sure the station functions
and operates safely for staff and users
but that the standards
can sometimes constraindesigners and builders.
- So currently there is a body
in the built environment industry
that does provide guidance and standards
when it comes to crime prevention
through environmental design, which is,
(08:33):
it's known as CPTED
and it's the current industry standard
for understanding safety
in the built environment.
It's really the only safetystandard that is used
and applied internationally by architects
and urban planners and designers.
So it shapes a lot of public design briefs
across public space and public transport
and the processes that are involved
with thinking about safety.
- The project can often aim
(08:53):
to just meet the standard rather
than providing the bestoutcome for the project.
Projects often get itright but it doesn't mean
that we can't improve on it.
- What we have uncovered is that often
when architects and urban planners
and designers engage with CPTED,
they think they'reengaging with all aspects
of kind of making people feel safe
(09:15):
and keeping places safe.
And it may be a kind of good baseline
but certainly it's not gender sensitive
and it doesn't acknowledgewomen's experiences
of public space and public transport
and that they're very,very different to men.
And we could go further to say
that it doesn't acknowledge
other intersectional factors.
So aspects of age or ability, sexuality,
(09:37):
ethnicity, ability, et cetera.
So there's a whole lot of things
that are kind of missing from that rubric
of thinking about what safety might mean.
We are really interested
in thinking about what's missing
from that prescriptive approach
and how it limits designresponses, which again,
is what we're uncovering is
that the limitations ofCPTED are not necessarily
(10:00):
internally driven fromarchitects and designers.
They're actually applied to the project
and they're forced to work
within those limitations.
- So the more that we can do these types
of research pieces, themore we talk about it
and the more we learn
and then we keep improving the outcome.
And gender specific design is becoming
really important to accommodate
(10:21):
all the different users on the network.
- The kind of patternsof movement have changed
that we're moving away from in Melbourne,
for example, a sort ofcentralised business district,
there's people moving all the way
across the city.
So all of the rail spacesand transport spaces
are really important.
We can't just rely on the really heavily
used ones to be well designed.
(10:44):
- I think that whatwe're starting to see is
that previously some of the conversations
that we were trying to have
in this space were kind of sidelined
by a lack of data or a lack of evidence.
And really the XYX Lab has been working
very carefully to make the data
to build the evidence so it's inarguable
(11:06):
so we can speak the same language
as the policymakers andpoliticians and heads
of design practisesbecause we need to work
out the leverage and show them
why they should care.
- The ultimate aim isto influence government
and the the policy makers, the people
who write the standards.
(11:27):
That's really where thechange needs to come.
And it's not suggestingthere's a holistic change
to the standards, but making sure
that we capture the knowledge
they help influence andupdate the standards.
It's really important that
that mindset then translates
to encouraging stakeholder groups to come
(11:48):
to a design situation with an open mind.
The aim here is toachieve the best outcome,
not just to tick a boxto achieve the standard.
- One of the the driving factors
is this climate emergency.
We really want to encourage people
to use more sustainable modes of transport
and it's really important now
(12:09):
because there is currently
a great government investment
into more sustainable modes of transport.
So it's a really important point in time
to capture all of these things
as we are designingthe next sort of legacy
of rail space and public transport space.
(upbeat music)
(12:29):
We're not the only onestalking about this,
clients, governments, and stakeholders
that the appetite and the interest
for creating inclusivespaces is really strong.
Women and girls make uphalf of our population.
We want people to be using less cars,
using public transport more to get around,
we wanna limit vehicular traffic,
we wanna limit the use of reliance on gas
(12:52):
and petrol and oil.
And so it's really, really important
that we make thesespaces really wonderful,
joyful places for everyone to use.
(upbeat music)
Thank you to our guests
for their generousinsights and contributions.
And thank you to you, our listeners.
Please do we keep an eye out
for more episodes coming your way soon.
(13:14):
And don't forget you can find out more
about our work oninsights@hassellstudio.com.
This episode was produced by Prue Vincent,
Julia Mann and Annie Scapetis.
(gentle music)
- From Hassell, anaward-winning architecture
and design practise,this is "Hassell Talks".
I'm Alix Smith.
I'm a Principal at Hassell,
predominantly based inthe Melbourne studio.
In case you hear any sort of coos
or cries in the background,
I am recording this on the bed
(00:20):
with my seven-week-old baby girl, Clover.
(Clover coos)
(laughs) Right on cue.
(gentle music)
I started catching the train to school
when I was 10-years-old
and the sort of preparation
that my parents gave me to undertake
(00:42):
that transition in my life made me feel
like a train was notnecessarily a safe place
to be as a woman.
You had to kind of keepyour wits about you
and always sort ofnotice who's around you,
position yourself near people
that you feel are safe,
places that you feel visible and seen,
not sort of hidden.
(01:03):
And think about not just
when you're at the train
but the journey to thetrain or from the train.
(car running)
It took me a really longtime to feel comfortable
catching a train atnighttime, for example.
And even then, you sort of work
out little methods to keep yourself safe.
You know, holding your keys in your hand,
(01:23):
for example, having your phone ready
to call someone
or even faking a phone call at times.
It's not always an enjoyable experience
getting from A to B.
One of the people who'sbeen looking closely
at this topic andresearching it for a number
of years is the AssociateProfessor and Director
of Monash University'sXYX Lab, Nicole Kalms.
(01:46):
- We're a team of researchers
that explore gendersensitive design practises.
And our research operatesat the intersection
of gender and identity
and urban space and advocacy.
- XYX lab understandthat more often than not,
the build environment is not designed
with women and girls in mind.
- We live in a world that is not equal
(02:09):
and that gender bias and inequality
affects the built environment.
These forms of gender based biases
really affect the way we find our place
in the world.
They lead to messagesthat are both subtle,
but also not very subtle,
that we don't belong in public space,
particularly if you're a woman.
They can often lead to women
and gender diverse peoplebeing very vigilant
(02:31):
about the way they occupy public spaces.
So thinking very carefully about
where they will and won't go.
And often that means that they are always
on guard which is incredibly exhausting
and requires a lot of emotional work.
We find that there's a lack of agency
for women and girls andgender diverse people
which means they can't actually
(02:51):
influence public space.
So this all becomes a huge kind of cycle.
And we couple that with the fact
that the built environment is a profession
and policy making and politics
as a system is dominated by men
and we kind of have a pretty biassed
and unequal environmentthat we're operating in.
So gender sensitive designis a way of thinking
(03:11):
about them more carefully and kind
of speaking to some of those challenges
and indeed designingagainst those challenges.
- Hassell partnered with XYX Lab
and we undertook a research piece together
to look at the perceptions of safety
for women and girls in the rail space,
particularly at suburban rail stations
(03:34):
and how women and girlsmay change their behaviour
around these spaces depending
on how they're designed.
- The importance of this research lies
in the fact that womenand gender diverse people
are limited in theircapacity to participate
in public life and in their working lives
and to access health and wellbeing,
all of these things, it's much bigger
than just kind of thinking we need
(03:57):
to deploy gender sensitive design.
The capacity for it to impact
other things is huge.
So if we both locally and nationally
and internationally startto detail the processes
for this kind of change,
then what that reallylooks like is making sure
that we include the people
who we hope will presumablybenefit from the work
(04:19):
that we do in the design process.
- It's been a reallyhelpful piece of research
to refer to in our design review process.
For example, when we'relooking at a variety
of different options for materiality,
for example, thinking about which one
of those may be more uplifting
(04:40):
or may make people feel safe.
And it's a very qualitative thing
but it helps sort of provide a backdrop
for that discussion.
Another really helpful thing is talking
about way finding view lines,
passive surveillance andhow we can shape spaces
and move the differentmasses of the built form
(05:00):
to enable clearer sightlines and sort of places
of refuge for women and girls as well.
- So some of the recurring themes
that we are identifying in the research
that we do particularly
around public transport spaces
and public space more broadly,
it's around visibility and wayfinding.
It's around the waysthat we surveil spaces
(05:23):
with both kind of people in terms
of protective servicesofficers, but also CCTV,
which is a kind of digitalform of surveillance.
We have a lot of research around toilets
and materiality and lighting.
So lighting and particularly poor lighting
really dominates the research
(05:44):
that we do time and again.
And it's a very standard reason that women
and gender diverse peoplegive for feeling unsafe
and being unsafe in public places.
And this is across public transport
and public spaces more broadly.
What we're talking aboutwhen we are thinking
about poor lighting is poorlydesigned lighting systems
with lights that are too bright
(06:05):
or spaced too far apart.
And surprisingly,there's often discussions
around over lighting, so lights
that are just really,really, really too bright
or spotlighting particular aspects
of public spaces.
So what we know when we think
about lighting is that good lighting
can really supportwomen's feelings of safety
particularly when they'reusing spaces obviously
(06:26):
after dark but also at dusk and dawn.
So there's kind of liminal hours.
- The research, it really challenged us
as designers but also challenges the sort
of stakeholders and rail operators
and the government supporting these spaces
to really look at howthe sort of the standards
and rules and regulations
that shape these spaces,
(06:47):
how they impact these experiences
of women and girls.
- We are really kind of thinking
very carefully about how we can start
to prioritise this environmental aspect
for women and gender diverse people
because it really is such a huge factor
in the ways that they'reorientating themselves,
navigating public spaces, but also,
about the ways they just feel
about being in public spaces.
(07:08):
Lighting is at very particular levels
for CCTV surveillance and then
what you've kind of gotis a very over lit space
where women can feel like kind
of lit up like a Christmastree if you like.
There's a huge set of specification
and legislation around lighting
but this one size fit all approach
(07:29):
really restricts designers to be able
to kind of engage in anuanced way with things
like layered lightingand integrating lighting
that might really shapewomen's perceptions of safety.
- The study that was done by XYX Lab
was great because it challenges some
of the common thoughts and perceptions
that are out there about
what safety actually means and helps
(07:52):
to improve that outcome by designing
for gender specific requirements.
- That's Chris Lamborn.
He's a Principal at Hassell.
He's been involved in transport design
for over 20 years and was closely involved
in the research work with XYX Lab.
- There's technicalrequirements and standards
for a project that theproject needs to meet
(08:12):
and they're critical
to make sure the station functions
and operates safely for staff and users
but that the standards
can sometimes constraindesigners and builders.
- So currently there is a body
in the built environment industry
that does provide guidance and standards
when it comes to crime prevention
through environmental design, which is,
(08:33):
it's known as CPTED
and it's the current industry standard
for understanding safety
in the built environment.
It's really the only safetystandard that is used
and applied internationally by architects
and urban planners and designers.
So it shapes a lot of public design briefs
across public space and public transport
and the processes that are involved
with thinking about safety.
- The project can often aim
(08:53):
to just meet the standard rather
than providing the bestoutcome for the project.
Projects often get itright but it doesn't mean
that we can't improve on it.
- What we have uncovered is that often
when architects and urban planners
and designers engage with CPTED,
they think they'reengaging with all aspects
of kind of making people feel safe
(09:15):
and keeping places safe.
And it may be a kind of good baseline
but certainly it's not gender sensitive
and it doesn't acknowledgewomen's experiences
of public space and public transport
and that they're very,very different to men.
And we could go further to say
that it doesn't acknowledge
other intersectional factors.
So aspects of age or ability, sexuality,
(09:37):
ethnicity, ability, et cetera.
So there's a whole lot of things
that are kind of missing from that rubric
of thinking about what safety might mean.
We are really interested
in thinking about what's missing
from that prescriptive approach
and how it limits designresponses, which again,
is what we're uncovering is
that the limitations ofCPTED are not necessarily
(10:00):
internally driven fromarchitects and designers.
They're actually applied to the project
and they're forced to work
within those limitations.
- So the more that we can do these types
of research pieces, themore we talk about it
and the more we learn
and then we keep improving the outcome.
And gender specific design is becoming
really important to accommodate
(10:21):
all the different users on the network.
- The kind of patternsof movement have changed
that we're moving away from in Melbourne,
for example, a sort ofcentralised business district,
there's people moving all the way
across the city.
So all of the rail spacesand transport spaces
are really important.
We can't just rely on the really heavily
used ones to be well designed.
(10:44):
- I think that whatwe're starting to see is
that previously some of the conversations
that we were trying to have
in this space were kind of sidelined
by a lack of data or a lack of evidence.
And really the XYX Lab has been working
very carefully to make the data
to build the evidence so it's inarguable
(11:06):
so we can speak the same language
as the policymakers andpoliticians and heads
of design practisesbecause we need to work
out the leverage and show them
why they should care.
- The ultimate aim isto influence government
and the the policy makers, the people
who write the standards.
(11:27):
That's really where thechange needs to come.
And it's not suggestingthere's a holistic change
to the standards, but making sure
that we capture the knowledge
they help influence andupdate the standards.
It's really important that
that mindset then translates
to encouraging stakeholder groups to come
(11:48):
to a design situation with an open mind.
The aim here is toachieve the best outcome,
not just to tick a boxto achieve the standard.
- One of the the driving factors
is this climate emergency.
We really want to encourage people
to use more sustainable modes of transport
and it's really important now
(12:09):
because there is currently
a great government investment
into more sustainable modes of transport.
So it's a really important point in time
to capture all of these things
as we are designingthe next sort of legacy
of rail space and public transport space.
(upbeat music)
(12:29):
We're not the only onestalking about this,
clients, governments, and stakeholders
that the appetite and the interest
for creating inclusivespaces is really strong.
Women and girls make uphalf of our population.
We want people to be using less cars,
using public transport more to get around,
we wanna limit vehicular traffic,
we wanna limit the use of reliance on gas
(12:52):
and petrol and oil.
And so it's really, really important
that we make thesespaces really wonderful,
joyful places for everyone to use.
(upbeat music)
Thank you to our guests
for their generousinsights and contributions.
And thank you to you, our listeners.
Please do we keep an eye out
for more episodes coming your way soon.
(13:14):
And don't forget you can find out more
about our work oninsights@hassellstudio.com.
This episode was produced by Prue Vincent,
Julia Mann and Annie Scapetis.
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