January 27, 2026 • 53 mins
Emotional eating isn’t about willpower — and for many women, midlife is when it finally becomes impossible to ignore.
In this powerful episode of Asking for a Friend, Michele Folan sits down with emotional eating expert, TEDx speaker, and bestselling author Tricia Nelson to unpack what emotional eating really is, why it intensifies during midlife and menopause, and how women can finally break free from decades of dieting, shame, and self-blame.
Tricia shares her deeply personal story — from childhood emotional eating and binge drinking to sobriety at 21 — and explains why food is often used as a coping mechanism for stress, unprocessed emotions, people-pleasing, perfectionism, and burnout. Together, Michele and Tricia explore how hormonal shifts, caregiving roles, identity changes, and boundary struggles collide in midlife, making emotional eating patterns louder and harder to manage.
This conversation goes far beyond food rules and meal plans. You’ll learn how emotional eating shows up as pain-killing, escape, and self-punishment, why dieting alone never solves the problem, and what it actually takes to heal your relationship with food — without restriction, guilt, or obsession. Tricia also addresses the misunderstood link between emotional eating, addiction, alcohol, and highly processed foods, and explains why healing requires addressing emotions, stress, and daily habits together.
If you’ve ever felt stuck in a cycle of “doing everything right” but still struggling with food, weight, or self-trust — this episode will feel like someone finally put words to your experience.
Tricia is the author of Heal Your Hunger and founder of Heal Your Hunger, a proven program helping women end emotional eating by addressing the root causes — not just the symptoms.
🎧 If you’re ready for a more compassionate, sustainable path forward with food, this episode is a must-listen.
Take the quiz - https://healyourhunger.com/quiz-splash/?nav=yes
Free live masterclass with Tricia Nelson on January 29th at 2:30pm PT / 5:30pm ET, focused on helping women stop emotional and binge eating around sugar in a sustainable, compassionate way.
Here is the link to join - https://go.healyourhunger.com/stop-sugar-bingeing?am_id=michele6703
_________________________________________
If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, adding a layer of support may be an option. I’ve partnered with a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 and other peptide therapies.
https://elliemd.com/michelefolan - Create a free account to view all products.
Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/askingforafriend_pod/
✨ Sign up for my weekly newsletter:
https://michelefolanfasterway.myflodesk.com/i6i44jw4fq
Like to connect? Email me at askingforafriendpodcast1@gmail.com
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michele Folan (00:00):
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational and informationalpurposes only and is not
intended as medical advice.
The content is meant to supportinformed conversations about
health and wellness, not replaceindividualized care from a
qualified healthcareprofessional.
If you've been doing the worklifting weights, prioritizing
(00:21):
protein, managing your stress,and your body still isn't
responding the way it used to,you're not doing anything wrong.
Midlife physiology isdifferent, and sometimes
lifestyle alone doesn't fullymove the needle.
That's why I partnered with atrusted telehealth resource to
offer Dr.
(00:41):
LED medically appropriatesupport for women who need an
extra layer.
GLP1s and other peptides arenot scary when used responsibly.
With proper medical oversightand FDA certified compounding
pharmacies, these tools can helpsupport metabolic health while
you continue doing thefoundational work that matters
(01:02):
most.
No shame, no judgment, justinformed options our mothers
never had.
If you're curious about GOP1sor other peptides, check out the
link in the show notes for mytrusted resource or reach out
with questions.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between.
(01:24):
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
Emotional eating is one of themost common struggles women face
and one of the most hidden.
It's not something we talkabout at dinner parties or admit
(01:45):
to our friends.
It happens quietly, oftenbehind closed doors layered with
shame, self-blame, and thebelief that I should have this
figured out by now.
For many women, midlife is whenemotional eating really starts
to take its toll.
Hormonal shifts, chronicstress, caregiving, identity
changes, loneliness, andexhaustion all collide.
(02:07):
Right at the same time, our oldcoping strategies stop working.
Food becomes comfort, relief,distraction, or escape.
And then comes the guilt andthe cycle repeats.
This isn't about willpower.
It's not about a lack ofdiscipline.
It's certainly not about beingbad with food.
Emotional eating is often asignal, one that something
(02:30):
deeper is asking to be seen,healed, and supported.
That's why today's conversationis so important.
My guest today is TriciaNelson, an internationally
recognized emotional eatingcoach, TEDx speaker, and
best-selling author of Heal YourHunger: Seven Simple Steps to
End Emotional Eating Now.
Trisha's work is deeplypersonal, rooted in her own
(02:52):
decades-long journey withemotional eating and addiction,
and has spent more than 30 yearsstudying the addictive
personality and helping peopleheal the root causes of
overeating, not just manage thesymptoms.
Today we're talking about whatemotional eating really is, why
shame keeps so many women stuck,why midlife can be the breaking
(03:13):
point, and most importantly,what true healing can look like.
Tricia Nelson, welcome toAsking for a Friend.
Tricia Nelson (03:21):
Thanks for having me to the show.
I'm really excited to be here.
Michele Folan (03:26):
Yeah, you know, we've not really dug into this
topic before.
And I I thought, you know, andI was sharing with you a little
bit before we got started, thatbeing a midlife health and
nutrition coach myself,oftentimes, you know, we think
we know the root of the weightgain and the weight loss
(03:49):
resistance, but this is a topicwe often don't really get to the
bottom of.
So I know you have an amazingstory to share.
And so I'd love to start withthat because you didn't become
an emotional eating coach from atextbook.
This came from livedexperience.
(04:09):
So I'd love to know what wasfood helping you cope with early
on in your life.
Tricia Nelson (04:15):
Yeah, I'm happy to share about it.
Totally, you know, this whole,you know, the reason why I do
what I do is because of my verybitter experience with emotional
eating.
So I think I was an emotionaleater from the get-go.
Of course, I didn't know thosewords or what that meant.
In fact, my sister came homeone day.
I was a teenager, and sheannounced, I'm an emotional
(04:38):
eater.
And I thought, that's thestupidest thing I've ever heard
of.
And then I thought, I'm not anemotional eater.
I just like food.
And so, you know, but the thingis, you can't unhear it.
And so I started to observe myhabits around food.
And I'm like, there's somethingdifferent about the way I
(04:59):
relate with food than myfriends.
So we'd be out at a you knowice cream shop, a friendly's or
Denny's or something like that.
And my friends would, you know,get a sandwich and would come
with fries, and they'd eat theirsandwich and pick up their
fries.
Well, I would eat my fries andpick up my sandwich.
And so I'm like, there's adifference there.
(05:21):
And then they'd get like a hotfudge sundae or something, you
know, those, I'm totally datingmyself, but those long jars with
the long spoon.
And they'd eat a few bites andthey'd push it away and they'd
say, Oh, I'm full.
And I'd be like, wait a minute,full?
What does that have to do withanything?
Like, there's fudge in thatcontainer.
So, so again, I startedobserving, I'm a little bit
(05:44):
different from my friends.
Like, they don't do what I do,or or at least they don't seem
to.
And so, you know, that thatawareness around my relationship
with food, it's not just that Ilike food.
I mean, definitely I do likefood, never, never won't like
food, but it was definitely abigger draw for me.
Like, I get so excited to goout to dinner.
(06:06):
I'd get so excited around, youknow, cookies being baked.
I mean, it was just a like I'dhave almost heart palpitations
when something ooey-goooey orchewy was coming my way.
Something came right out of theoven.
And so it was definitely anemotional relationship.
You know, this wouldn't havebeen terrible, except that I
gained weight easily.
(06:27):
And by age 21, I was 50 poundsoverweight.
And that was painful.
You know, I was a busy person.
I was, you know, athletic, butI carried this excess weight and
I had a roll on my tummy that Iwould scrunch up in my hands
and imagine cutting off, likeyou cut fat off the side of a
(06:47):
steak.
And I just had these crazythoughts like, oh, maybe I'll
get a disease where Iautomatically lose weight
without having to diet orexercise.
So some pretty crazy thoughtsbecause I was out of control,
because I couldn't snap myfinger and lose the weight, and
I didn't like, you know, beingfat.
(07:07):
I hated it, you know?
And so that's sort of the painbehind my journey.
And what happened for me is nomatter what diet I tried, it
didn't work for me.
So I could, I could lose weightfor a time, but I'd always put
the weight back on.
And so diets didn't work forme.
Then I started doing morepsychological things.
(07:27):
I went to an eating disorderstherapist that didn't really
move the needle.
I went to 12-step programs.
So I was really, I wasn't aslouch, I was really in a search
for how to heal, but it wasn'tuntil I met a coach who had been
obese and he lost the weight.
He lost over 100 pounds.
And it was more throughspiritual and emotional, you
(07:51):
know, means.
And he told me, he's like,Trisha, your problem isn't food.
You know, that's a symptom.
Like overweight is a symptom ofovereating.
Overeating is a symptom ofwhat's eating you.
Let's go there.
And that made all thedifference for me.
And then we worked together tohelp others.
And then eventually I foundedmy company, Heal Your Hunger,
(08:13):
and I codified everything he andI did together to help people.
And it's been online for abouteight years.
Um, my process and my courses.
Michele Folan (08:22):
All right.
This is great stuff.
I want to back up a little bit.
Right.
So your sister identifiesherself as an emotional eater.
Did she have the same strugglesyou had through adolescence and
early adulthood?
Tricia Nelson (08:38):
She did.
She was uh, we were both obese.
Um, we both had that physical,you know, uh propensity to gain
weight very easily.
My middle sister, she was myoldest sister.
My middle sister was abeanstalk, and so she didn't uh
gain weight the way we did.
But eventually we all wereself-diagnosed emotional eaters.
(09:00):
So we were three for three.
My parents, you know, they hadit too.
Like they had weight issues aswell.
So yeah, we all had it, and weall had different kinds of ways
of uh healing.
Um, we've all been on healingjourneys.
Uh, what worked for them didn'twork for me.
That's how I ended up in myjourney.
Michele Folan (09:21):
You said that you attended Amherst College and
then worked at a Seattle artmuseum or at the Seattle Art
Museum.
Yeah.
So you didn't take thisstraight line into coaching.
You had other jobs along theway.
Could did you ever pinpointwhat was missing in your life at
that stage?
Tricia Nelson (09:41):
So I think the misconception around, you know,
emotional eating, it a lot oftimes people like, oh, I'm an
emotional eater.
I have to give to theunderlying causes.
Let me go to therapy.
Like, let me go to therapy andfigure it out.
You know, my experience isthere's not just one cause.
You know, we want to, it wouldbe so easy to say, oh, it's
(10:05):
because my like my mother was analcoholic or my dad was a rager
or whatever, my brother hadspecial needs and I got
neglected.
We want to make it one thing,like the trauma, right?
What's the trauma?
What's the thing?
Problem is it doesn't work thatway.
So what happens is, and believeme, emotional eaters are, you
know, they they're they have noshortage of trauma in their
(10:26):
past.
Like it's very customary for usto have some kind of little T,
big T trauma.
However, when you're a kid andyou do have a dysfunctional
upbringing, like home, home lifeis not great.
You know, few people can say itwas, but you know, when there's
stuff at home, we're lookingfor something to make us feel
(10:48):
better.
And food is that something at avery young age.
So that's the first problem isthat food is like the only thing
that's available to us.
I mean, we can we canfantasize, we can read books, we
can watch TV, we canmasturbate, but then that's it.
When you're a six orseven-year-old, that's all you
really got.
(11:09):
You know, sorry, themasturbation thing doesn't
usually happen at that age.
That was so funny.
I was like, ooh.
Yeah, we're going to keep fast.
You know, it's good for mebecause sadly I had sexual abuse
in my past.
So that's a big T trauma that alot of emotional leaders do
have in their past.
And therefore, I was kind oflike, you know, the faucet was
(11:32):
turned on fat, you know, likeearly at a young age.
And that is, you know, it is tobe like when you have sexual
abuse, you do like compulsivesex behaviors follow that, you
know.
So I had that.
But my point in all this isthat whatever happens as a kid,
you're looking for something totake away the pain, you know,
(11:52):
and food is an amazingpainkiller.
But my real point in sharingall that is that it's not the
one thing.
So, okay, let's go, let's go totherapy, Trish, and deal with
the sexual abuse.
Well, the problem is when youhave dysfunction in your home,
you also spawn otherdysfunctional behaviors besides
(12:14):
feeding it with food.
You also become, if you have araging parent, you become a
people pleaser.
Like, let's make sure there'speace in the home at all costs.
And that cost can be our ownsoul because we're just like
like trying to settle everybodydown.
Or let's become a caregiver,right?
Because mom is an alcoholic andI need to, you know, be the
(12:36):
adult as a child.
I'm the adult taking care of mysiblings.
Um, let's like, let's not sayanything.
Like, let's make sure that wekeep the peace.
So let's be super quiet andjust read our books, you know,
and so we we don't know how touse our voice and say how we
really feel.
So these are personality traitsthat are spawned at a young age
(12:57):
on account of the dysfunctionin the home.
So my point saying all that isthere's a web of personality
traits.
I call them the anatomy of theemotional eater.
These are traits that we havethat have nothing to do with
food, ostensibly, that if wedon't put the spotlight on those
(13:17):
traits, no food plan, no diet,no exercise plan is gonna keep
you from overeating or keep youfrom from like overeating for
very long.
Because people are always like,give me the diet, like show me
what to eat.
Like everybody wants to know,right?
You know this from your ownwork.
Like, like, hand me the dietand I'll be great.
(13:38):
It's it gives us a false senseof control.
Like, oh good, I got the diet.
This is gonna fix me.
No, it's not because you're noteven gonna follow it for very
long.
Because you're gonna I'm sure,I'm sure the diets you give
people don't have browniesincluded in them, you know?
An occasional one.
Like we're yeah, we we're allabout having the treat, right?
(14:01):
Yeah, not the whole pan, youknow.
And so, and so the thing is,and so we crave those things.
We crave our goodies, we cravethe sugar and the carbs, and
those aren't conducive tohealing your gut, healing your
autoimmune issues, you know,healing your depression.
And so we're falling down therabbit hole time and time again.
(14:22):
And so the diet itself isn'tgonna fix us.
What's really gonna help usfollow the plan, whatever it is,
and diet is a very genericword.
It can be a really healthy planfor healing your body.
But if you're snacking at nightbecause you need the emotional
support of carbs and sugar,you're never gonna reach your
(14:44):
health goals.
And so, what I reallyspecialize in doing is helping
people focus on the livingproblem, not the eating problem.
Because that's also what mycoach told me.
He's like, Trisha, you got aliving problem.
I was a people pleaser, I was acaregiver, I didn't use my
voice, I ate, I ate what Iwanted to say because I was
(15:07):
afraid people wouldn't like me.
You know, comes with peoplepleasing.
I was uh not only an overeater,I was an overdoer.
So I could do circles aroundeverybody.
If you want to get somethingdone, give it to an emotional
eater because we're looking forthe validation.
And so we were always sayingyes.
You know, we don't know how tosay no.
So these are the things to me,this is like the meat and
(15:30):
potatoes of how to heal ourrelationship with food.
Take the focus off the food.
We all know salads are betterthan pizza, like we're not
stupid, you know, but let'sfocus on the personality traits
that are that are causingself-sabotage, you know,
overdoing, keeping a lot ofnoise and a lot of chaos in our
(15:51):
lives, never putting boundarieson our time, never saying how we
really feel.
That's the real problem.
Ah, I love this.
This is so good.
Michele Folan (15:59):
This is really it is good.
It's really good stuff.
And Trisha, we're gonna take aquick break and when we come
back.
I want to touch briefly on yourjourney with alcohol.
Quick pause because if you'rehere, you already know this
isn't just a health podcast.
Yes, we talk about nutrition,strength, and taking care of
(16:22):
your body and midlife, but wealso talk about life,
relationships, energy,boundaries, and what really
matters in this season.
This isn't about perfection orshrinking yourself.
It's about staying strong,curious, connected, and actually
enjoying the years ahead.
If this resonates, share theepisode with a friend who'd
(16:43):
appreciate the conversation andfollow us on Instagram at asking
for a friend underscore pod.
Okay, we are back.
You have shared that youremotional eating began as a
child, but that it expanded intobinge drinking.
When did you realize thiswasn't about willpower or
(17:07):
discipline?
Tricia Nelson (17:08):
Oh my gosh.
So I started drinking at inhigh school, and I was I I was
an immediate, I took to it veryquickly.
I loved, I loved alcohol.
I loved being drunk, to behonest.
I loved, I loved being buzzedor drunk.
I mean, I maybe I didn't lovebeing drunk.
I loved being buzzed, but Icould I couldn't stop there.
(17:29):
And I I like I went, I blewright past buzzed to drunk.
And by the end of high school,I uh I had earned the name that
my friends named me, which wasTrish the Fish.
Ah yeah.
Okay, so so people noticed Iwas often at a party, I was over
(17:51):
drinking, and so I wasembarrassed that people call me
Trish the Fish.
Um, but you know, anyway,that's what happened.
And so I I started to beembarrassed that I was drinking
so much, but I couldn't reallypull back.
Like I had a hard time pullingback.
(18:13):
And so, well, the other thingis I was a blackout drinker, so
I would I would lose my memoryof I would lose conscious, like
not consciousness, because Icould be conscious, but I
wouldn't remember what was goingon.
And so that was a big problemfor me.
Like I would black out, and soit was just like the writing was
(18:34):
on the wall.
Like, Trisha, you can't drinksafely.
You're like, you know, and youdo things you're embarrassed
about, people tell you about itbecause you don't remember.
So anyway, I stopped drinkingat age 21 because I was like,
you know, it was curtains forme.
I was like, who am I kidding?
Especially the blacking out.
Like, if I'm losing, likethat's that's a serious allergy
(18:55):
to alcohol.
Like that is that's no joke.
And I can't, like, I couldcutesy my way out, like, oh,
it's just a phase, or oh, youknow, I'll get out of it.
But having your cells likereact that way, I couldn't
cutesy my way out of that.
Michele Folan (19:10):
So I was like, fine, no, you know, first of
all, I'm very proud of you thatat 21 you gave that up because
that's in the prime of youngpartying culture, you know you
are finally of age.
And the reason I want to talkabout alcohol, because we we do
talk about alcohol quite a bitbecause I think it's something
(19:32):
that really holds women back inmidlife.
And I often think we use it asa reward, kind of like we do
with food.
Tricia Nelson (19:39):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (19:40):
When did you tie in that the alcohol was kind of
like food and in the rewardcenter?
Tricia Nelson (19:47):
Well, yeah, I don't, I really don't take
credit for having thatexperience because it was my it
was the person who was helpingme, my mentor who is helping me
with my food issue.
He also Uh had stoppeddrinking.
And so he drew the connectionfor me.
And it was, you know, it wasreally on account of addressing
my food issue, which by the way,like I'm I'm a super sugar
(20:11):
addict.
You know, when I start to eatsugar, sugar's all I want to
eat.
And so alcohol is the mostrefined form of sugar there is.
And so the fact that I hadtrouble like uh, you know,
moderating how much alcohol Idrank, it was really no surprise
when you realize it is sugar inliquid form, basically.
(20:32):
It doesn't taste like it, it'snot nearly as delicious as
sugar, but what it's doing inyour body, you know, and I was
allergic to it.
I mean, it was I had a strongreaction to alcohol where I just
wanted to keep drinking, youknow, and then I forget what I
was.
I mean, most people don'tblackout.
That's super severe, but it wasdefinitely a clue.
And it, but it was because Iwas trying to heal my food
(20:55):
problem that I realized, youknow, being out of control of
alcohol isn't going to beconducive to not overeating.
Because then when you drink,you lose your inhibitions and
you like you just think you caneat, you know, with no no
consequence.
Michele Folan (21:08):
And then you've got the you get the hangover the
next day, and all you want iscarbohydrate.
I mean, yeah.
Hello, college.
That was that was that was thething, right?
It was like going out for tacosat 11:30 in the morning on a
Saturday.
I would love to define what isemotional eating and what is it
(21:31):
not.
Tricia Nelson (21:32):
So, my very non-clinical definition of
emotional eating is eating tofeel better or eating to change
how you feel.
And you, of course, you want tofeel better, not worse.
So, we're eating to like feelbetter.
We don't like how we feel,which is usually not liking an
emotion that we're feeling, andwe want to escape it.
(21:53):
So, I have something called thePEP test because a lot of
people might be listeningthinking, like like I did.
I just like food.
I'm not an emotional eater.
So the PEP test is a way tokind of dig into this a little
bit.
So PEP is an acronym, P E P,and the first P stands for
painkiller.
So we use food to killuncomfortable emotions.
(22:17):
Painkiller, you know, is is aword, but it's anything that
feels uncomfortable.
Like you get a bill in the mealyou weren't expecting, or you
have to change jobs, and all ofa sudden that brings up all your
insecurities because you're notgoing to know what to do in a
new job or how to, you know,excel yet.
Or somebody breaks up with you,or your kid is dysregulated and
(22:42):
there's stress around that.
So life's got plenty of pain toserve up.
And what we do as emotionaleaters is we lean on food to get
us through because it does feelgood in the moment.
It works, it works, we love it,you know, in the moment.
And then we have to pay theprice after we we are hungover,
(23:04):
talk about hangover, sugar,sugar and carb binging, you
know, will create a hangover aswell.
So we eat to feel better andthen we feel worse.
So that's the first P in Pep.
The the E stands for escape,which means we're, you know, my
experience is overeaters, we'realso overthinkers.
And it's one of the traits ofthe anatomy of the emotional
(23:24):
eater, you know, which isthere's 24 traits that I've
named in my book, but uh in theanatomy of the emotional eater,
having a racing mind is part andparcel with being an emotional
eater.
Like our we overthinkeverything.
What does she mean by that?
Why did he look at me that way?
(23:44):
Why didn't I get an invitation?
They must hate me.
It's like we exhaust ourselveswith our racing mind, our
overthinking everything, youknow, and so uh we eat to shut
down our mind.
We eat because most of thethings we overthink on are
negative.
Like we're we're thinking worstcase scenario all the time.
(24:08):
I call it awhalizing, you know,and so when we offalize, it's
like it's a terrible place to bein your in your mind.
And so we get our favoritebinge foods and we front sit in
front of our favorite bingeableTV show, and it's like like
relief from our brains.
And so we use food as anescape.
(24:31):
And the third letter in PEP, P,stands for punishment, which
seems counterintuitive because,like you said, with alcohol,
it's also true with food.
We use food to reward ourselvesafter a long day, after a hard
week, after doing somethingreally, you know, big.
We're like, oh, I deserve this,I deserve this.
(24:53):
So we're always going to getour reward in eating.
But I say if you lose controland then you go overboard, do
you feel rewarded?
Not really.
You feel kind of beat up.
Yeah.
You know, sugar and carbs beatyou up.
I mean, they did me because Iwent overboard.
I was stuffed, I felt sick, youknow.
(25:14):
I didn't want to hang out withgirlfriends or go to brunch with
the girls afterwards and thenext day.
You know, I do sheet therapy,pull the covers up over my head.
And so that is not a reward.
That's a punishment.
Why am I punishing myself?
What's that about?
So I use uh PEP as a way forpeople to start, again, like I
(25:37):
did originally, start observingour eating and asking some
questions like, hmm, what'sgoing on?
Like, why are you looking inthe refrigerator when you're not
hungry?
What's going on?
Are you feeling uncomfortableabout something?
Is your mind racing aboutsomething that you're worried
about?
Are you are you kind ofawfulizing?
(25:59):
Or are you feeling guilty?
Because we do punish ourselvesbecause overeaters are
overfeelers and we feel guiltyabout everything.
So we literally, even thoughfood is a reward going in, when
it's a punishment on thebackside, we have to think, huh,
am I am I trying to beat myselfup?
Like I'm doing this to myself.
Nobody's forcing me to eat.
(26:20):
So why would I why would I beatup my body this way?
And that just gets us askingsome deeper questions that I
think we need to ask if we'regonna get out of this eating
loop.
Michele Folan (26:31):
Does emotional eating fall under the umbrella
of disordered eating, or is itsomething different?
Tricia Nelson (26:37):
Yes, I I like the term disordered eating.
I mean, emotional eating whenyou're a binge eater is
technically uh eating disorder.
But that, you know, it's easyfor us to say, oh, I don't have
an eating disorder.
Like that's really severe.
Like I have a job and I've beenhospitalized, blah, blah, blah.
So I like the term emotionaleater because whether you're
(26:59):
overeating or under eating, andthere's a lot of people who are
perfectly normal weight, youknow, or a little bit thin, like
too thin maybe, and they'reeating if they're under-eating
or restricting, you know, orlike eating a Lara bar
throughout the day, one Larabar, like that's emotional too.
Like when we're doing weirdthings with food, it's driven by
(27:23):
our need to change how we feel.
So back to emotional eating, weeat to feel better or we eat to
change how we feel.
And so, and that's overeating,under eating, restricting, you
know, over-exercising because ofwhat we ate.
It's all disordered eating.
Yes.
I just find emotional eating tobe a pretty apt name, which is
(27:46):
it's driven by something goingon inside.
And you might not, it's notlike you're like, where's the
chocolate?
I need to emotionally eat.
No, you're like, I lovechocolate.
Give me some of that, right?
So we don't connect it.
And hopefully, by peoplelistening, maybe people will
start to connect it.
Michele Folan (28:04):
And then one last question on the disordered
eating piece of this.
So if you were, you know, 21years old and you were you were
binging, did you ever purge?
I tried and it didn't work outfor me.
Tricia Nelson (28:20):
Thank God.
All right.
That's a whole nother layer,right?
It is, it's a whole notherride.
I do find that a binge eater,you know, anybody who's binging
and purging, bullying bulimic,again, it's emotionally driven,
but it does take you on aterrible, terrible ride.
And that's why I'm grateful Iwasn't able to.
Like I put my finger down mythroat several times because I
(28:42):
felt so sick.
I wanted to purge, and I justcouldn't make it happen.
And so I just what happened forme is I just packed on pounds.
You know, everything I ateended up on my ass.
So which was motivating.
You know, sometimes it's reallysad when somebody can cover up
the effects of their eating withsecretive purging because
(29:04):
sometimes the hell can continuelonger.
Uh, I mean, the worst thing inour culture is to be fat, you
know, and if you aren't fat,sometimes you can keep the
secret longer, which is hell.
Michele Folan (29:17):
All right.
Why do emotional eatingpatterns often intensify in
midlife, especially duringmenopause or maybe even major
life transitions?
Tricia Nelson (29:28):
Yeah, I mean, it's to me, there's three
reasons why we overeat, notovereat, but feel compelled to
eat.
Okay.
And so if somebody is likethey've sworn off a sugar and
they're like they can't stopthemselves, that compulsion is
driven by three things.
The first is emotions, youknow, and and in midlife or with
(29:54):
hormonal changes, we can have alot of emotions, obviously.
But also, midlife's not easy.
That, you know, we're we'rebecoming empty nesters, that's
emotional.
Our relationship might be onthe rocks, that's emotional.
You know, it's just there's alot of things coming at us, and
and the hormones don't help,right?
The hormonal changes don'thelp.
(30:15):
Um, so emotions are one, likelike we we have a lot of
emotions going on and we're notfinding the proper place to put
them.
So we're stuffing them withfood.
Stress is the next thing.
Okay.
So again, when we tend towardemotional eating, we also tend
toward people pleasing.
And the reason why peoplepleasing leads to overeating is
(30:39):
because when we say yes topeople, because we're trying to
please and we're trying to, it'swhat we're it's not really
about them.
We want the validation, we wantthe atta girls.
Like, oh, I don't know how shedoes it.
She gets so much done.
You know, like we love the theaccolades we get from being
superwoman, you know, and butthe problem is it comes with a
(31:02):
price because we're not onlyexhausted and maybe exhaust
exhausting our adrenals, right?
And and um our like stressduring our hormones, but also
nobody's ever as pleased as weplan on them being.
And so, right?
Michele Folan (31:18):
Like never, right?
I know, and welcome to theseason, because that is exactly
what Christmas is.
Tricia Nelson (31:26):
Yeah, yeah, totally overdoing, want to have
the best pie, the best party,the whole thing.
So we're overdoing, and thennobody's like, we're not getting
the the payoff that we'reexpecting, especially because
people get used to us being theoverdoers that we are.
They get a big payoff too.
It's like, give it to theovereater, she'll do it.
(31:47):
Like, she'll never say no, youknow.
So we're kind of pissed off.
So we're stressed out andpissed off and resentful.
And that just leads to thelike, screw them.
I'm gonna go home and rewardmyself.
And we have the I deserve itbinge.
Like, you know, I'm gonnareward myself with these
fabulous chocolates or whatever.
So that's how, again, it's ourliving that's informing our
(32:14):
eating.
And we have to take a look atthat.
Like, you can't lose weight andkeep it off if you don't start
addressing the people pleasing.
You also can't be happy.
Like, you can't be truly happyif you're compelled to say yes
to everybody and don't know howto say no.
And it doesn't have to be amean no, it can be, let me check
(32:36):
my schedule and get back toyou.
Like give yourself a pausebecause no is really hard for
the emotional eater.
We're like, oh, they're gonnahate me and oh, like uh, you
know, I'm gonna lose friendsover this or judgment, whatever.
No, just let me let me checkand see.
Like, or say, I have a lot onmy plate right now, which is
(32:56):
never a lie for an emotionaleater.
I have a lot on my plate rightnow, you know, I I can't do it
right now.
Like, no is okay.
Because guess what?
There's always another sucker.
Yeah.
There's always somebody elsewho says yes and does it.
Like you think you're soindispensable.
Like, I nobody can plan a partylike I can.
(33:17):
Like nobody can entertain likeI can, you know, nobody can lead
the the meeting like me.
No, they absolutely can.
You're not as important as youthink you are.
Let somebody else do it.
Take a break, you know, stopsaying yes to everything because
it's hurting you.
It's like you're paying a dearprice.
I love boundaries.
Michele Folan (33:36):
We could we could do you and I could talk for a
whole hour just on settingboundaries and how it is your
God-given right in midlife toset boundaries.
But you've you've been studyingaddictive personality for
decades.
And what do most peoplemisunderstand about addiction
when it comes to food?
Tricia Nelson (33:58):
Well, the that it is an addiction.
Like, how can you be addictedto food?
You have to eat.
Well, you know, I actually havea um a quiz on my website.
It's a free quiz that I welcomepeople to take and it will tell
you if you are addicted.
So it's, I call it theemotional eating quiz.
It'll tell you if you're anemotional eater or a food addict
(34:19):
or somewhere in between.
So when you take the quiz, it'slike it takes like two minutes
to take and it's free.
But when you take the quiz,you'll get a personalized score,
and that score will tell youwhere you are on the emotional
eating spectrum.
And my experience is we're allon the spectrum.
Hello, everybody's an emotionaleater.
And so point is the like whereyou end up on the spectrum is uh
(34:44):
determined by two thingsprimarily.
The first thing is the level ofcontrol that you have, okay?
So when you go on a cruise andyou prepay for everything, and
your head's like, well, I paidfor it, I might as well eat it,
you know, drink it.
So you go overboard, you comehome, your pants are tight,
you're like five pounds heavier,and you're like, okay, that's
(35:09):
it.
I'm gonna like cut out thesweets now.
I'm gonna jog extra for acouple weeks, you know, an extra
10 miles each week.
Fine.
Within, you know, a coupleweeks, maybe a month, the five
pounds are off.
Your pants are feeling good.
That's someone with a lot ofcontrol and also with very few
consequences.
So control and consequences areare the two main determinants
(35:33):
of where you end up on theemotional eating spectrum.
Whereas somebody like me, onceupon a time, if I went on a
cruise, I'm like, whoa, I'm soeating and drinking all this.
So I do that.
I come home, my pants are tighttoo, I've gained five pounds.
But what happens for me is Ifeel like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna
(35:56):
get back on track, but I don't.
Michele Folan (35:58):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (35:58):
Because I've turned on, like the spigot has
been turned on and I'm addictedto sugar.
And I just keep eating thesweets.
I have trouble stopping.
So I don't have the same kindof control as person number one,
you know?
And so that five pounds turnsinto 10 or 15 pounds.
It could be months before Ifeel like I'm back on track.
(36:20):
Okay, that's the difference.
That's somebody who's more inthe addictive realm of the
emotional eating spectrum thanthe run-of-the-mill emotional
eater realm.
Everybody emotionally eats,like eating feels good.
Carbs and sugar feel good inthe moment.
They hit our, like they give usa serotonin, you know, hit, a
dopamine hit, you know, and soit feels good, it works, but
(36:43):
what you do with that, how muchcontrol you have or how what the
consequences are, that's whatdetermines whether you're
addicted or not.
So that's the first thing ispeople don't realize they can
absolutely be addicted.
Now it's not like you'readdicted to all foods.
I mean, I rarely will like likesit up at night wishing I could
have steak, you know, like orchicken.
So it's usually like, you know,cookies and ice cream and you
(37:08):
know, ooey gooey, chewy foods,because those are the ones that
do give us that dopamine hit.
Those are the things that comein pretty packages.
They feel good, they tastegood, and they numb us.
They numb us.
Salads don't numb us.
So I'm talking about beingaddicted to processed foods, you
know, foods that are highlyprocessed, they're they have a
(37:29):
lot of sugar in them, you know,and carbs do metabolize as
sugar.
So if you're if bread's yourthing or pasta is your thing,
it's sugar.
When, you know, when it hitsyour bloodstream, it's sugar.
And so really important forpeople to know that you can be
addicted, but it's not likeaddicted to all foods.
It's and you do have to eat,you know, but it's addicted to
the highly processed foods.
(37:51):
But also, I think that's whythis is so hard for people to
wrap their head around, isbecause you have to eat.
So we we we dog ourselves forbeing like out of control with
food.
Like, what's wrong with me?
It's just cookies.
This is so stupid.
And so we feel like we have tolike fix it on our own because
(38:12):
it's just cookies.
It's not like I'm putting aneedle in my arm, you know.
So we downplay it and dismissit, even though it's killing us.
Like people die daily ofdiabetes, you know, and most
like a good number of people inour, you know, in in our country
(38:32):
are pre-diabetic and don't evenknow it, you know.
So it's a big problem.
And if you die from diabetes,at first you, you know, you get
your limbs cut off.
Michele Folan (38:41):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (38:42):
Right?
You get amputations.
You don't just die of diabetes,you you try to save yourself
with amputations.
It's bad.
It's really bad.
And we just we we're in denial.
Like a big, you know, indicatorof or a telltale sign of
addiction is denial, whichstands for don't even notice I
(39:02):
am lying.
You know, so we fool ourselves.
It's just cookies.
I say it's one of the worst andhardest addictions overcome
because you have to eat.
And you're likely not going toovercome it on your own, uh,
like no other addiction you cantypically overcome on your own.
And this is one of them.
Michele Folan (39:20):
And so, yeah, and again, I could go on for days
if you take me down this roadabout diabetes and insulin
resistance and metabolicdisease.
And then we've got the numberone killer of women is
cardiovascular disease, which ispart of that whole metabolic
syndrome.
(39:41):
And so anyway, I and I hearyou, but I guess you know, I
would want to know then once anemotional eater, always an
emotional eater.
Do you ever get to drop thatname?
Tricia Nelson (39:53):
So, well, here's the thing I think we all can
emotionally eat.
I think those who are on thelower end of the uh Spectrum,
you know, if you take the quizand you you're like on the low
end of the spectrum, chances areit's you know, you're not going
to be in a big danger place.
And it's not, it's it's reallyagain the consequences, the
consequences and control.
(40:14):
If you have control to coursecorrect after a cruise or
vacation, good on you.
Like consider yourself lucky,you know.
And it's always, you know, ourrelationship with food is like a
relationship with money.
Anybody can overspend, anybodycan overeat, you know?
And so it's like, are we usingmoney or food for to enhance our
(40:37):
lives?
Are we using it to punishourselves, you know,
subconsciously?
Like, because you can get in alot of trouble overspending, you
know, or you can course correctand you know, tighten your belt
and that kind of thing.
So it's a relationship and it'sa relationship we will always
have.
Like you just like money, it'sa relationship you can't get
away from.
You'll always have arelationship with food and with
(40:58):
your body, you know?
And so I would say if you havedisordered eating, if you're on
the high end of the emotionaleating spectrum, more on the
addiction part of it, you canalways fall down the rabbit
hole.
I don't consider myself cured.
I'm freer than I've ever beenaround food on most days.
You know, like you look at meand you're like, I'm normal
(41:20):
weight, I eat normally, youknow, it's like I don't binge,
I'm not drawn to sweets anymore.
So, so I seem normal, but it'sonly because I'm highly aware,
like I'm vigilant and I take myown medicine that I prescribe to
my clients.
So I prescribe, not literallyprescribe, but I I have a whole
(41:42):
system for people to healemotional eating.
But it's a system that I stilldo as well.
So I didn't get to some pointwhere I'm like, I'm good.
No, I've learned from bitterexperience, you can fall down
the rabbit hole.
You can relapse, you know, justlike alcohol with alcoholic
with alcohol, you can fall downthat rabbit hole by thinking
you're cured.
(42:02):
And I've done it.
So I know it doesn't, itdoesn't, it doesn't, you know,
farewell, like bode well whenyou think you're cured and then
you start eating all kinds ofthings that are slippery.
Like there are foods that areslippery for me, and I don't
wanna like I don't want toignite that crazy in me, that
(42:23):
that craving for those things.
So there are foods I sidestep,you know, but I don't crave them
anymore because of theemotional work that I do and the
work on my stress.
Remember, I said, oh, I didn'teven finish that.
I said emotions, stress, andhabit.
These are the three things thatcreate that compulsion.
(42:44):
So we have to address theemotions, we have to address the
stress, but we also have tocreate new habits.
And that's the part that I do,you know, uh, well, all three of
those things I do on a dailybasis.
Those are the things that myclients are doing to heal.
And so um I'm just not, I don'thave to eat sweets anymore.
It's not a, they're not callingmy name, but that's because I'm
(43:06):
addressing my stress and myemotions and I have new habits
of how to deal with life onlife's terms.
Michele Folan (43:14):
Can you share a client success story that really
illustrates what's possibleeven after decades of struggle?
Tricia Nelson (43:23):
Yes.
And most of my women are inmidlife.
You know, most of the women Ihelp are in their 50s, 60s, and
70s.
I have a few in their 80s and afew in their 30s and 40s.
But, you know, most of my womenhave been dieting for decades,
literally, you know, 40, 50years of roller coaster ride
dieting.
I will have so many coolstories, but Hazel's one person,
(43:47):
she was obese, morbidly obese,I think um is the awful term.
And she uh was super unhappybecause of it.
I mean, it's just you know,when you walk around with X a
hundred extra pounds in yourbody, it makes life harder.
Yeah.
On every possible level, youknow?
And so she's lost close to 100pounds uh through my program.
(44:10):
And she's speaking, but shedidn't do it through diet, like
she doesn't diet.
So my ladies lose weightwithout dieting.
And some people think that'sabsolutely impossible.
It's really not.
It's we do it like it's whatwe're doing, it's what I did,
it's what what I teach.
And it's through changing, youknow, the way they're living.
So she meditates on a dailybasis, she journals her
(44:33):
feelings, she's in communitywith other emotional eaters.
I do a lot, a lot of my programis done in community on Zoom,
you know, because we need peoplewho get us, you know, who
understand what it's like tofeel powerless over cookies.
So she's engaged in thecommunity.
And over, I'd say about a year,maybe a year and a half, she's
lost close to a hundred poundsand she's still losing.
(44:55):
And at some point she plateauedand so she dug into what that
was about.
And it was fear.
Like she was her body waschanging.
People's responses to her werechanging, and so she had to get
underneath that.
So I'm really teaching peoplehow to deal with the underlying
causes of their emotionaleating.
Pat is a woman, she's 82, Ithink.
(45:16):
And she came to me about uh sixor seven years ago.
She's now a coach in myprogram, and she came to me,
Finn.
She was, you know, a lifetimeWeight Watchers person.
So she had lost 50 pounds, butshe was about to put it back on.
Michele Folan (45:30):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (45:31):
You know, and this is a problem with people on
GLP ones now, is it's like,okay, I lost the weight.
What now?
What am I gonna do now?
You know, am I gonna be onmedication for the rest of my
life?
And so Pat came to me notwanting to put those 50 pounds
back on, and her life is sodifferent, but it's all through
changing the way she's living.
She has three kids, adultchildren who have families, and
(45:53):
her holidays are different.
Like she doesn't run aroundlike a crazy woman, you know,
perfectionist trying to make theholidays perfect.
That's that's when she came tome.
She just felt crazy, you know,because she was such a
perfectionist and had all thispressure on herself.
So now her kids each take anight, they cook the meals.
They, she's like, Trisha,sometimes they serve like the
(46:14):
holiday dinner on paper plates.
And she's like, I would neverdo that.
But she's like, but I let itgo.
I let it go because I don'twant to be a crazy person.
I want to, you know, share inthe responsibilities, which
means I get to let go of howit's done.
And so she's adjusted, like,okay, we're eating on paper
plates.
Like, that's how we're doingthe holidays.
And so, but that's big, right?
(46:35):
Like, because emotion, yeah,emotion leaders are control
freaks.
Like we want to, and we createour own stress that way.
So much of our stress isself-created by being a
perfectionist, by needing it acertain way.
So she let go of that and she'slike, I don't have to worry
about it.
And they put the, you know, thesweet, yummy, goe gooey chewy
foods.
They have a, there's a cupboardassigned for them, you know.
(46:56):
So I don't have to look at it.
But she's changing how she'sdoing life, you know, and her
relationship of over 50 years ofmarriage, her relationship with
her husband's better than ever,her relationship with her kids
are better than ever.
And she swims three days a weekat the senior Y.
Like she's like so healthy andhappy.
And she's like, I didn't wantto go out continuing to struggle
(47:18):
with food.
She's, you know, I didn't wantto end my life never having
figured this part out.
So those are a couple stories.
No, this is great.
Michele Folan (47:26):
And you know, this also tells me one that
there is hope you can resolvethis and get a handle on it.
And it's not too late.
You if you have someone that'sin their 80s and they're they're
they're just figuring this outnow, yeah, but now she's she's
getting herself healthy.
And I that's such a greatexample of hey, you're 55 right
(47:52):
now.
It now's your chance.
Get get a handle on it nowbecause you've got so many
wonderful years ahead to livefully.
Amen.
Yeah.
What inspired you to write HealYour Hunger?
And who'd you have in mind whenyou wrote it?
Tricia Nelson (48:06):
I mean, the book is is my work.
I mean, that's the I codifiedwhat I used to do with my mentor
when we helped people in ourliving room.
You know, we used to havepeople one at a time in our
living room, and I'm just like,this is not scalable.
We're not helping enoughpeople.
And so I codified the work andI put it into a step-by-step
process.
So it's super clear,step-by-step system.
(48:28):
It's not nebulous, like mindfuleating or intuitive eating.
It's like, no, do this, then dothis, then do this.
And I laid it out in my bookcalled Heal Your Hunger: Seven
Simple Steps to End EmotionalEating.
And that's what I teach people.
You know, it's it's the onlything the book doesn't have is
the community.
I mean, it doesn't go superdeep.
It's a hundred and like 20-pagebook, but uh it's a it's an
(48:51):
easy, fun read because that'scartoons that are kind of funny.
But anyway, my program is basedon that.
And the book can't give you thecommunity.
And the community is vital tohealing because, you know, our
heads are talking smack to usevery single day.
And uh, and if it's just us andour heads, our head is gonna
(49:12):
win, you know.
Whereas if you have a communityof women who are cheering you
on and telling you good things,you know, and we're celebrating
the wins, oh, it makes it somuch easier to treat ourselves
with love and respect.
Michele Folan (49:25):
You know, that came up at my podcast that is
out right now.
So it was 12, 15 or so when Idropped that podcast.
And we talk a lot about theimportance of community, whether
you are working on youremotional eating or it's uh your
weight loss journey, or youwant to learn how to write and
(49:50):
publish a book or whatever,having those people around you
that are like-minded, that yourealize I'm not alone in this
and I'm not strange or weird.
There are other people justlike me, and uh they're there to
help you as well.
Tricia Nelson (50:06):
Absolutely.
So it's invaluable.
And we, especially as mosteaters, we tend to isolate
because we're embarrassed andashamed of our behaviors.
Um, and a lot of them are donein secret, and so we have to
come out of the shadows andaccept help and have just, you
know, uh positive reinforcementso that we can change how we
(50:27):
think about ourselves.
Michele Folan (50:28):
One last quick question about this if we have
someone in our life that we knowwho is an emotional eater, how
can we push them to have thatawareness and get help?
Tricia Nelson (50:43):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
What I recommend is my book tosomebody.
And the reason, oh I mean, it'sa good book.
I'm not gonna lie, I think it'sgreat.
Um, and a lot of people havegotten so much help from it.
But the point about the book isthat the book focuses on the
underlying causes and it reallyhelps people shift their
thinking around this.
(51:04):
Most people think diet andexercise is the only solution
available to them, or now it'sdiet and exercise and
medication.
Like those are the options.
And I offer a different option,which is taking that deeper
journey and healing theunderlying causes, healing the
living problem, which uh theeating problem just naturally
follows.
(51:24):
And so people don't know that.
And so they're so defeated anddemoralized by the dieting
roller coaster ride when theyand they're like, oh, that like
I've tried everything.
But when they read my book,they're like, oh, I didn't know
there was a different tack youcan take.
And so the book might be a justa hopeful thing for them to
(51:44):
realize, oh, okay, I don't haveto do all that restriction and
pain and you know, binging againand all that.
That's that's like set me backtime and time again.
Like there's actually a littletrapdoor where I can exit that
and then have a whole new paththat I can take to success.
Michele Folan (52:05):
Oh, I love it.
So, Trisha Nelson, where canthe listeners find you, your
programs, and your book?
Tricia Nelson (52:12):
Yeah, uh the best place is my website, which is
healyourhunger.com, H E A L,healyourhunger.com.
My TEDx talk is on there.
It has close to three millionviews.
Um, my book is on my there, mypodcast, uh, Confessions of a
Binge Eater is on there.
So this is in the quiz.
Take the quiz.
Go to the website,healyourhunger.com, and first
(52:34):
take that quiz, and then you canfind the other things as well.
Okay, all that will go in theshow notes.
Michele Folan (52:40):
We didn't even talk about your podcast, but
we've had so much to talk about.
Tricia Nelson (52:45):
Trisha Nelson, thank you so much for being a
guest today.
Thanks for having me.
It's been so much fun.
It's really, I reallyappreciate you and your amazing
questions and thoroughness.
And I appreciate you and allthat you do to help people heal.
Oh, thank you, Trisha.
Michele Folan (53:03):
Before you go, thank you for being here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
(53:26):
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational and informationalpurposes only and is not
intended as medical advice.
The content is meant to supportinformed conversations about
health and wellness, not replaceindividualized care from a
qualified healthcareprofessional.
If you've been doing the worklifting weights, prioritizing
(00:21):
protein, managing your stress,and your body still isn't
responding the way it used to,you're not doing anything wrong.
Midlife physiology isdifferent, and sometimes
lifestyle alone doesn't fullymove the needle.
That's why I partnered with atrusted telehealth resource to
offer Dr.
(00:41):
LED medically appropriatesupport for women who need an
extra layer.
GLP1s and other peptides arenot scary when used responsibly.
With proper medical oversightand FDA certified compounding
pharmacies, these tools can helpsupport metabolic health while
you continue doing thefoundational work that matters
(01:02):
most.
No shame, no judgment, justinformed options our mothers
never had.
If you're curious about GOP1sor other peptides, check out the
link in the show notes for mytrusted resource or reach out
with questions.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between.
(01:24):
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
Emotional eating is one of themost common struggles women face
and one of the most hidden.
It's not something we talkabout at dinner parties or admit
(01:45):
to our friends.
It happens quietly, oftenbehind closed doors layered with
shame, self-blame, and thebelief that I should have this
figured out by now.
For many women, midlife is whenemotional eating really starts
to take its toll.
Hormonal shifts, chronicstress, caregiving, identity
changes, loneliness, andexhaustion all collide.
(02:07):
Right at the same time, our oldcoping strategies stop working.
Food becomes comfort, relief,distraction, or escape.
And then comes the guilt andthe cycle repeats.
This isn't about willpower.
It's not about a lack ofdiscipline.
It's certainly not about beingbad with food.
Emotional eating is often asignal, one that something
(02:30):
deeper is asking to be seen,healed, and supported.
That's why today's conversationis so important.
My guest today is TriciaNelson, an internationally
recognized emotional eatingcoach, TEDx speaker, and
best-selling author of Heal YourHunger: Seven Simple Steps to
End Emotional Eating Now.
Trisha's work is deeplypersonal, rooted in her own
(02:52):
decades-long journey withemotional eating and addiction,
and has spent more than 30 yearsstudying the addictive
personality and helping peopleheal the root causes of
overeating, not just manage thesymptoms.
Today we're talking about whatemotional eating really is, why
shame keeps so many women stuck,why midlife can be the breaking
(03:13):
point, and most importantly,what true healing can look like.
Tricia Nelson, welcome toAsking for a Friend.
Tricia Nelson (03:21):
Thanks for having me to the show.
I'm really excited to be here.
Michele Folan (03:26):
Yeah, you know, we've not really dug into this
topic before.
And I I thought, you know, andI was sharing with you a little
bit before we got started, thatbeing a midlife health and
nutrition coach myself,oftentimes, you know, we think
we know the root of the weightgain and the weight loss
(03:49):
resistance, but this is a topicwe often don't really get to the
bottom of.
So I know you have an amazingstory to share.
And so I'd love to start withthat because you didn't become
an emotional eating coach from atextbook.
This came from livedexperience.
(04:09):
So I'd love to know what wasfood helping you cope with early
on in your life.
Tricia Nelson (04:15):
Yeah, I'm happy to share about it.
Totally, you know, this whole,you know, the reason why I do
what I do is because of my verybitter experience with emotional
eating.
So I think I was an emotionaleater from the get-go.
Of course, I didn't know thosewords or what that meant.
In fact, my sister came homeone day.
I was a teenager, and sheannounced, I'm an emotional
(04:38):
eater.
And I thought, that's thestupidest thing I've ever heard
of.
And then I thought, I'm not anemotional eater.
I just like food.
And so, you know, but the thingis, you can't unhear it.
And so I started to observe myhabits around food.
And I'm like, there's somethingdifferent about the way I
(04:59):
relate with food than myfriends.
So we'd be out at a you knowice cream shop, a friendly's or
Denny's or something like that.
And my friends would, you know,get a sandwich and would come
with fries, and they'd eat theirsandwich and pick up their
fries.
Well, I would eat my fries andpick up my sandwich.
And so I'm like, there's adifference there.
(05:21):
And then they'd get like a hotfudge sundae or something, you
know, those, I'm totally datingmyself, but those long jars with
the long spoon.
And they'd eat a few bites andthey'd push it away and they'd
say, Oh, I'm full.
And I'd be like, wait a minute,full?
What does that have to do withanything?
Like, there's fudge in thatcontainer.
So, so again, I startedobserving, I'm a little bit
(05:44):
different from my friends.
Like, they don't do what I do,or or at least they don't seem
to.
And so, you know, that thatawareness around my relationship
with food, it's not just that Ilike food.
I mean, definitely I do likefood, never, never won't like
food, but it was definitely abigger draw for me.
Like, I get so excited to goout to dinner.
(06:06):
I'd get so excited around, youknow, cookies being baked.
I mean, it was just a like I'dhave almost heart palpitations
when something ooey-goooey orchewy was coming my way.
Something came right out of theoven.
And so it was definitely anemotional relationship.
You know, this wouldn't havebeen terrible, except that I
gained weight easily.
(06:27):
And by age 21, I was 50 poundsoverweight.
And that was painful.
You know, I was a busy person.
I was, you know, athletic, butI carried this excess weight and
I had a roll on my tummy that Iwould scrunch up in my hands
and imagine cutting off, likeyou cut fat off the side of a
(06:47):
steak.
And I just had these crazythoughts like, oh, maybe I'll
get a disease where Iautomatically lose weight
without having to diet orexercise.
So some pretty crazy thoughtsbecause I was out of control,
because I couldn't snap myfinger and lose the weight, and
I didn't like, you know, beingfat.
(07:07):
I hated it, you know?
And so that's sort of the painbehind my journey.
And what happened for me is nomatter what diet I tried, it
didn't work for me.
So I could, I could lose weightfor a time, but I'd always put
the weight back on.
And so diets didn't work forme.
Then I started doing morepsychological things.
(07:27):
I went to an eating disorderstherapist that didn't really
move the needle.
I went to 12-step programs.
So I was really, I wasn't aslouch, I was really in a search
for how to heal, but it wasn'tuntil I met a coach who had been
obese and he lost the weight.
He lost over 100 pounds.
And it was more throughspiritual and emotional, you
(07:51):
know, means.
And he told me, he's like,Trisha, your problem isn't food.
You know, that's a symptom.
Like overweight is a symptom ofovereating.
Overeating is a symptom ofwhat's eating you.
Let's go there.
And that made all thedifference for me.
And then we worked together tohelp others.
And then eventually I foundedmy company, Heal Your Hunger,
(08:13):
and I codified everything he andI did together to help people.
And it's been online for abouteight years.
Um, my process and my courses.
Michele Folan (08:22):
All right.
This is great stuff.
I want to back up a little bit.
Right.
So your sister identifiesherself as an emotional eater.
Did she have the same strugglesyou had through adolescence and
early adulthood?
Tricia Nelson (08:38):
She did.
She was uh, we were both obese.
Um, we both had that physical,you know, uh propensity to gain
weight very easily.
My middle sister, she was myoldest sister.
My middle sister was abeanstalk, and so she didn't uh
gain weight the way we did.
But eventually we all wereself-diagnosed emotional eaters.
(09:00):
So we were three for three.
My parents, you know, they hadit too.
Like they had weight issues aswell.
So yeah, we all had it, and weall had different kinds of ways
of uh healing.
Um, we've all been on healingjourneys.
Uh, what worked for them didn'twork for me.
That's how I ended up in myjourney.
Michele Folan (09:21):
You said that you attended Amherst College and
then worked at a Seattle artmuseum or at the Seattle Art
Museum.
Yeah.
So you didn't take thisstraight line into coaching.
You had other jobs along theway.
Could did you ever pinpointwhat was missing in your life at
that stage?
Tricia Nelson (09:41):
So I think the misconception around, you know,
emotional eating, it a lot oftimes people like, oh, I'm an
emotional eater.
I have to give to theunderlying causes.
Let me go to therapy.
Like, let me go to therapy andfigure it out.
You know, my experience isthere's not just one cause.
You know, we want to, it wouldbe so easy to say, oh, it's
(10:05):
because my like my mother was analcoholic or my dad was a rager
or whatever, my brother hadspecial needs and I got
neglected.
We want to make it one thing,like the trauma, right?
What's the trauma?
What's the thing?
Problem is it doesn't work thatway.
So what happens is, and believeme, emotional eaters are, you
know, they they're they have noshortage of trauma in their
(10:26):
past.
Like it's very customary for usto have some kind of little T,
big T trauma.
However, when you're a kid andyou do have a dysfunctional
upbringing, like home, home lifeis not great.
You know, few people can say itwas, but you know, when there's
stuff at home, we're lookingfor something to make us feel
(10:48):
better.
And food is that something at avery young age.
So that's the first problem isthat food is like the only thing
that's available to us.
I mean, we can we canfantasize, we can read books, we
can watch TV, we canmasturbate, but then that's it.
When you're a six orseven-year-old, that's all you
really got.
(11:09):
You know, sorry, themasturbation thing doesn't
usually happen at that age.
That was so funny.
I was like, ooh.
Yeah, we're going to keep fast.
You know, it's good for mebecause sadly I had sexual abuse
in my past.
So that's a big T trauma that alot of emotional leaders do
have in their past.
And therefore, I was kind oflike, you know, the faucet was
(11:32):
turned on fat, you know, likeearly at a young age.
And that is, you know, it is tobe like when you have sexual
abuse, you do like compulsivesex behaviors follow that, you
know.
So I had that.
But my point in all this isthat whatever happens as a kid,
you're looking for something totake away the pain, you know,
(11:52):
and food is an amazingpainkiller.
But my real point in sharingall that is that it's not the
one thing.
So, okay, let's go, let's go totherapy, Trish, and deal with
the sexual abuse.
Well, the problem is when youhave dysfunction in your home,
you also spawn otherdysfunctional behaviors besides
(12:14):
feeding it with food.
You also become, if you have araging parent, you become a
people pleaser.
Like, let's make sure there'speace in the home at all costs.
And that cost can be our ownsoul because we're just like
like trying to settle everybodydown.
Or let's become a caregiver,right?
Because mom is an alcoholic andI need to, you know, be the
(12:36):
adult as a child.
I'm the adult taking care of mysiblings.
Um, let's like, let's not sayanything.
Like, let's make sure that wekeep the peace.
So let's be super quiet andjust read our books, you know,
and so we we don't know how touse our voice and say how we
really feel.
So these are personality traitsthat are spawned at a young age
(12:57):
on account of the dysfunctionin the home.
So my point saying all that isthere's a web of personality
traits.
I call them the anatomy of theemotional eater.
These are traits that we havethat have nothing to do with
food, ostensibly, that if wedon't put the spotlight on those
(13:17):
traits, no food plan, no diet,no exercise plan is gonna keep
you from overeating or keep youfrom from like overeating for
very long.
Because people are always like,give me the diet, like show me
what to eat.
Like everybody wants to know,right?
You know this from your ownwork.
Like, like, hand me the dietand I'll be great.
(13:38):
It's it gives us a false senseof control.
Like, oh good, I got the diet.
This is gonna fix me.
No, it's not because you're noteven gonna follow it for very
long.
Because you're gonna I'm sure,I'm sure the diets you give
people don't have browniesincluded in them, you know?
An occasional one.
Like we're yeah, we we're allabout having the treat, right?
(14:01):
Yeah, not the whole pan, youknow.
And so, and so the thing is,and so we crave those things.
We crave our goodies, we cravethe sugar and the carbs, and
those aren't conducive tohealing your gut, healing your
autoimmune issues, you know,healing your depression.
And so we're falling down therabbit hole time and time again.
(14:22):
And so the diet itself isn'tgonna fix us.
What's really gonna help usfollow the plan, whatever it is,
and diet is a very genericword.
It can be a really healthy planfor healing your body.
But if you're snacking at nightbecause you need the emotional
support of carbs and sugar,you're never gonna reach your
(14:44):
health goals.
And so, what I reallyspecialize in doing is helping
people focus on the livingproblem, not the eating problem.
Because that's also what mycoach told me.
He's like, Trisha, you got aliving problem.
I was a people pleaser, I was acaregiver, I didn't use my
voice, I ate, I ate what Iwanted to say because I was
(15:07):
afraid people wouldn't like me.
You know, comes with peoplepleasing.
I was uh not only an overeater,I was an overdoer.
So I could do circles aroundeverybody.
If you want to get somethingdone, give it to an emotional
eater because we're looking forthe validation.
And so we were always sayingyes.
You know, we don't know how tosay no.
So these are the things to me,this is like the meat and
(15:30):
potatoes of how to heal ourrelationship with food.
Take the focus off the food.
We all know salads are betterthan pizza, like we're not
stupid, you know, but let'sfocus on the personality traits
that are that are causingself-sabotage, you know,
overdoing, keeping a lot ofnoise and a lot of chaos in our
(15:51):
lives, never putting boundarieson our time, never saying how we
really feel.
That's the real problem.
Ah, I love this.
This is so good.
Michele Folan (15:59):
This is really it is good.
It's really good stuff.
And Trisha, we're gonna take aquick break and when we come
back.
I want to touch briefly on yourjourney with alcohol.
Quick pause because if you'rehere, you already know this
isn't just a health podcast.
Yes, we talk about nutrition,strength, and taking care of
(16:22):
your body and midlife, but wealso talk about life,
relationships, energy,boundaries, and what really
matters in this season.
This isn't about perfection orshrinking yourself.
It's about staying strong,curious, connected, and actually
enjoying the years ahead.
If this resonates, share theepisode with a friend who'd
(16:43):
appreciate the conversation andfollow us on Instagram at asking
for a friend underscore pod.
Okay, we are back.
You have shared that youremotional eating began as a
child, but that it expanded intobinge drinking.
When did you realize thiswasn't about willpower or
(17:07):
discipline?
Tricia Nelson (17:08):
Oh my gosh.
So I started drinking at inhigh school, and I was I I was
an immediate, I took to it veryquickly.
I loved, I loved alcohol.
I loved being drunk, to behonest.
I loved, I loved being buzzedor drunk.
I mean, I maybe I didn't lovebeing drunk.
I loved being buzzed, but Icould I couldn't stop there.
(17:29):
And I I like I went, I blewright past buzzed to drunk.
And by the end of high school,I uh I had earned the name that
my friends named me, which wasTrish the Fish.
Ah yeah.
Okay, so so people noticed Iwas often at a party, I was over
(17:51):
drinking, and so I wasembarrassed that people call me
Trish the Fish.
Um, but you know, anyway,that's what happened.
And so I I started to beembarrassed that I was drinking
so much, but I couldn't reallypull back.
Like I had a hard time pullingback.
(18:13):
And so, well, the other thingis I was a blackout drinker, so
I would I would lose my memoryof I would lose conscious, like
not consciousness, because Icould be conscious, but I
wouldn't remember what was goingon.
And so that was a big problemfor me.
Like I would black out, and soit was just like the writing was
(18:34):
on the wall.
Like, Trisha, you can't drinksafely.
You're like, you know, and youdo things you're embarrassed
about, people tell you about itbecause you don't remember.
So anyway, I stopped drinkingat age 21 because I was like,
you know, it was curtains forme.
I was like, who am I kidding?
Especially the blacking out.
Like, if I'm losing, likethat's that's a serious allergy
(18:55):
to alcohol.
Like that is that's no joke.
And I can't, like, I couldcutesy my way out, like, oh,
it's just a phase, or oh, youknow, I'll get out of it.
But having your cells likereact that way, I couldn't
cutesy my way out of that.
Michele Folan (19:10):
So I was like, fine, no, you know, first of
all, I'm very proud of you thatat 21 you gave that up because
that's in the prime of youngpartying culture, you know you
are finally of age.
And the reason I want to talkabout alcohol, because we we do
talk about alcohol quite a bitbecause I think it's something
(19:32):
that really holds women back inmidlife.
And I often think we use it asa reward, kind of like we do
with food.
Tricia Nelson (19:39):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (19:40):
When did you tie in that the alcohol was kind of
like food and in the rewardcenter?
Tricia Nelson (19:47):
Well, yeah, I don't, I really don't take
credit for having thatexperience because it was my it
was the person who was helpingme, my mentor who is helping me
with my food issue.
He also Uh had stoppeddrinking.
And so he drew the connectionfor me.
And it was, you know, it wasreally on account of addressing
my food issue, which by the way,like I'm I'm a super sugar
(20:11):
addict.
You know, when I start to eatsugar, sugar's all I want to
eat.
And so alcohol is the mostrefined form of sugar there is.
And so the fact that I hadtrouble like uh, you know,
moderating how much alcohol Idrank, it was really no surprise
when you realize it is sugar inliquid form, basically.
(20:32):
It doesn't taste like it, it'snot nearly as delicious as
sugar, but what it's doing inyour body, you know, and I was
allergic to it.
I mean, it was I had a strongreaction to alcohol where I just
wanted to keep drinking, youknow, and then I forget what I
was.
I mean, most people don'tblackout.
That's super severe, but it wasdefinitely a clue.
And it, but it was because Iwas trying to heal my food
(20:55):
problem that I realized, youknow, being out of control of
alcohol isn't going to beconducive to not overeating.
Because then when you drink,you lose your inhibitions and
you like you just think you caneat, you know, with no no
consequence.
Michele Folan (21:08):
And then you've got the you get the hangover the
next day, and all you want iscarbohydrate.
I mean, yeah.
Hello, college.
That was that was that was thething, right?
It was like going out for tacosat 11:30 in the morning on a
Saturday.
I would love to define what isemotional eating and what is it
(21:31):
not.
Tricia Nelson (21:32):
So, my very non-clinical definition of
emotional eating is eating tofeel better or eating to change
how you feel.
And you, of course, you want tofeel better, not worse.
So, we're eating to like feelbetter.
We don't like how we feel,which is usually not liking an
emotion that we're feeling, andwe want to escape it.
(21:53):
So, I have something called thePEP test because a lot of
people might be listeningthinking, like like I did.
I just like food.
I'm not an emotional eater.
So the PEP test is a way tokind of dig into this a little
bit.
So PEP is an acronym, P E P,and the first P stands for
painkiller.
So we use food to killuncomfortable emotions.
(22:17):
Painkiller, you know, is is aword, but it's anything that
feels uncomfortable.
Like you get a bill in the mealyou weren't expecting, or you
have to change jobs, and all ofa sudden that brings up all your
insecurities because you're notgoing to know what to do in a
new job or how to, you know,excel yet.
Or somebody breaks up with you,or your kid is dysregulated and
(22:42):
there's stress around that.
So life's got plenty of pain toserve up.
And what we do as emotionaleaters is we lean on food to get
us through because it does feelgood in the moment.
It works, it works, we love it,you know, in the moment.
And then we have to pay theprice after we we are hungover,
(23:04):
talk about hangover, sugar,sugar and carb binging, you
know, will create a hangover aswell.
So we eat to feel better andthen we feel worse.
So that's the first P in Pep.
The the E stands for escape,which means we're, you know, my
experience is overeaters, we'realso overthinkers.
And it's one of the traits ofthe anatomy of the emotional
(23:24):
eater, you know, which isthere's 24 traits that I've
named in my book, but uh in theanatomy of the emotional eater,
having a racing mind is part andparcel with being an emotional
eater.
Like our we overthinkeverything.
What does she mean by that?
Why did he look at me that way?
(23:44):
Why didn't I get an invitation?
They must hate me.
It's like we exhaust ourselveswith our racing mind, our
overthinking everything, youknow, and so uh we eat to shut
down our mind.
We eat because most of thethings we overthink on are
negative.
Like we're we're thinking worstcase scenario all the time.
(24:08):
I call it awhalizing, you know,and so when we offalize, it's
like it's a terrible place to bein your in your mind.
And so we get our favoritebinge foods and we front sit in
front of our favorite bingeableTV show, and it's like like
relief from our brains.
And so we use food as anescape.
(24:31):
And the third letter in PEP, P,stands for punishment, which
seems counterintuitive because,like you said, with alcohol,
it's also true with food.
We use food to reward ourselvesafter a long day, after a hard
week, after doing somethingreally, you know, big.
We're like, oh, I deserve this,I deserve this.
(24:53):
So we're always going to getour reward in eating.
But I say if you lose controland then you go overboard, do
you feel rewarded?
Not really.
You feel kind of beat up.
Yeah.
You know, sugar and carbs beatyou up.
I mean, they did me because Iwent overboard.
I was stuffed, I felt sick, youknow.
(25:14):
I didn't want to hang out withgirlfriends or go to brunch with
the girls afterwards and thenext day.
You know, I do sheet therapy,pull the covers up over my head.
And so that is not a reward.
That's a punishment.
Why am I punishing myself?
What's that about?
So I use uh PEP as a way forpeople to start, again, like I
(25:37):
did originally, start observingour eating and asking some
questions like, hmm, what'sgoing on?
Like, why are you looking inthe refrigerator when you're not
hungry?
What's going on?
Are you feeling uncomfortableabout something?
Is your mind racing aboutsomething that you're worried
about?
Are you are you kind ofawfulizing?
(25:59):
Or are you feeling guilty?
Because we do punish ourselvesbecause overeaters are
overfeelers and we feel guiltyabout everything.
So we literally, even thoughfood is a reward going in, when
it's a punishment on thebackside, we have to think, huh,
am I am I trying to beat myselfup?
Like I'm doing this to myself.
Nobody's forcing me to eat.
(26:20):
So why would I why would I beatup my body this way?
And that just gets us askingsome deeper questions that I
think we need to ask if we'regonna get out of this eating
loop.
Michele Folan (26:31):
Does emotional eating fall under the umbrella
of disordered eating, or is itsomething different?
Tricia Nelson (26:37):
Yes, I I like the term disordered eating.
I mean, emotional eating whenyou're a binge eater is
technically uh eating disorder.
But that, you know, it's easyfor us to say, oh, I don't have
an eating disorder.
Like that's really severe.
Like I have a job and I've beenhospitalized, blah, blah, blah.
So I like the term emotionaleater because whether you're
(26:59):
overeating or under eating, andthere's a lot of people who are
perfectly normal weight, youknow, or a little bit thin, like
too thin maybe, and they'reeating if they're under-eating
or restricting, you know, orlike eating a Lara bar
throughout the day, one Larabar, like that's emotional too.
Like when we're doing weirdthings with food, it's driven by
(27:23):
our need to change how we feel.
So back to emotional eating, weeat to feel better or we eat to
change how we feel.
And so, and that's overeating,under eating, restricting, you
know, over-exercising because ofwhat we ate.
It's all disordered eating.
Yes.
I just find emotional eating tobe a pretty apt name, which is
(27:46):
it's driven by something goingon inside.
And you might not, it's notlike you're like, where's the
chocolate?
I need to emotionally eat.
No, you're like, I lovechocolate.
Give me some of that, right?
So we don't connect it.
And hopefully, by peoplelistening, maybe people will
start to connect it.
Michele Folan (28:04):
And then one last question on the disordered
eating piece of this.
So if you were, you know, 21years old and you were you were
binging, did you ever purge?
I tried and it didn't work outfor me.
Tricia Nelson (28:20):
Thank God.
All right.
That's a whole nother layer,right?
It is, it's a whole notherride.
I do find that a binge eater,you know, anybody who's binging
and purging, bullying bulimic,again, it's emotionally driven,
but it does take you on aterrible, terrible ride.
And that's why I'm grateful Iwasn't able to.
Like I put my finger down mythroat several times because I
(28:42):
felt so sick.
I wanted to purge, and I justcouldn't make it happen.
And so I just what happened forme is I just packed on pounds.
You know, everything I ateended up on my ass.
So which was motivating.
You know, sometimes it's reallysad when somebody can cover up
the effects of their eating withsecretive purging because
(29:04):
sometimes the hell can continuelonger.
Uh, I mean, the worst thing inour culture is to be fat, you
know, and if you aren't fat,sometimes you can keep the
secret longer, which is hell.
Michele Folan (29:17):
All right.
Why do emotional eatingpatterns often intensify in
midlife, especially duringmenopause or maybe even major
life transitions?
Tricia Nelson (29:28):
Yeah, I mean, it's to me, there's three
reasons why we overeat, notovereat, but feel compelled to
eat.
Okay.
And so if somebody is likethey've sworn off a sugar and
they're like they can't stopthemselves, that compulsion is
driven by three things.
The first is emotions, youknow, and and in midlife or with
(29:54):
hormonal changes, we can have alot of emotions, obviously.
But also, midlife's not easy.
That, you know, we're we'rebecoming empty nesters, that's
emotional.
Our relationship might be onthe rocks, that's emotional.
You know, it's just there's alot of things coming at us, and
and the hormones don't help,right?
The hormonal changes don'thelp.
(30:15):
Um, so emotions are one, likelike we we have a lot of
emotions going on and we're notfinding the proper place to put
them.
So we're stuffing them withfood.
Stress is the next thing.
Okay.
So again, when we tend towardemotional eating, we also tend
toward people pleasing.
And the reason why peoplepleasing leads to overeating is
(30:39):
because when we say yes topeople, because we're trying to
please and we're trying to, it'swhat we're it's not really
about them.
We want the validation, we wantthe atta girls.
Like, oh, I don't know how shedoes it.
She gets so much done.
You know, like we love the theaccolades we get from being
superwoman, you know, and butthe problem is it comes with a
(31:02):
price because we're not onlyexhausted and maybe exhaust
exhausting our adrenals, right?
And and um our like stressduring our hormones, but also
nobody's ever as pleased as weplan on them being.
And so, right?
Michele Folan (31:18):
Like never, right?
I know, and welcome to theseason, because that is exactly
what Christmas is.
Tricia Nelson (31:26):
Yeah, yeah, totally overdoing, want to have
the best pie, the best party,the whole thing.
So we're overdoing, and thennobody's like, we're not getting
the the payoff that we'reexpecting, especially because
people get used to us being theoverdoers that we are.
They get a big payoff too.
It's like, give it to theovereater, she'll do it.
(31:47):
Like, she'll never say no, youknow.
So we're kind of pissed off.
So we're stressed out andpissed off and resentful.
And that just leads to thelike, screw them.
I'm gonna go home and rewardmyself.
And we have the I deserve itbinge.
Like, you know, I'm gonnareward myself with these
fabulous chocolates or whatever.
So that's how, again, it's ourliving that's informing our
(32:14):
eating.
And we have to take a look atthat.
Like, you can't lose weight andkeep it off if you don't start
addressing the people pleasing.
You also can't be happy.
Like, you can't be truly happyif you're compelled to say yes
to everybody and don't know howto say no.
And it doesn't have to be amean no, it can be, let me check
(32:36):
my schedule and get back toyou.
Like give yourself a pausebecause no is really hard for
the emotional eater.
We're like, oh, they're gonnahate me and oh, like uh, you
know, I'm gonna lose friendsover this or judgment, whatever.
No, just let me let me checkand see.
Like, or say, I have a lot onmy plate right now, which is
(32:56):
never a lie for an emotionaleater.
I have a lot on my plate rightnow, you know, I I can't do it
right now.
Like, no is okay.
Because guess what?
There's always another sucker.
Yeah.
There's always somebody elsewho says yes and does it.
Like you think you're soindispensable.
Like, I nobody can plan a partylike I can.
(33:17):
Like nobody can entertain likeI can, you know, nobody can lead
the the meeting like me.
No, they absolutely can.
You're not as important as youthink you are.
Let somebody else do it.
Take a break, you know, stopsaying yes to everything because
it's hurting you.
It's like you're paying a dearprice.
I love boundaries.
Michele Folan (33:36):
We could we could do you and I could talk for a
whole hour just on settingboundaries and how it is your
God-given right in midlife toset boundaries.
But you've you've been studyingaddictive personality for
decades.
And what do most peoplemisunderstand about addiction
when it comes to food?
Tricia Nelson (33:58):
Well, the that it is an addiction.
Like, how can you be addictedto food?
You have to eat.
Well, you know, I actually havea um a quiz on my website.
It's a free quiz that I welcomepeople to take and it will tell
you if you are addicted.
So it's, I call it theemotional eating quiz.
It'll tell you if you're anemotional eater or a food addict
(34:19):
or somewhere in between.
So when you take the quiz, it'slike it takes like two minutes
to take and it's free.
But when you take the quiz,you'll get a personalized score,
and that score will tell youwhere you are on the emotional
eating spectrum.
And my experience is we're allon the spectrum.
Hello, everybody's an emotionaleater.
And so point is the like whereyou end up on the spectrum is uh
(34:44):
determined by two thingsprimarily.
The first thing is the level ofcontrol that you have, okay?
So when you go on a cruise andyou prepay for everything, and
your head's like, well, I paidfor it, I might as well eat it,
you know, drink it.
So you go overboard, you comehome, your pants are tight,
you're like five pounds heavier,and you're like, okay, that's
(35:09):
it.
I'm gonna like cut out thesweets now.
I'm gonna jog extra for acouple weeks, you know, an extra
10 miles each week.
Fine.
Within, you know, a coupleweeks, maybe a month, the five
pounds are off.
Your pants are feeling good.
That's someone with a lot ofcontrol and also with very few
consequences.
So control and consequences areare the two main determinants
(35:33):
of where you end up on theemotional eating spectrum.
Whereas somebody like me, onceupon a time, if I went on a
cruise, I'm like, whoa, I'm soeating and drinking all this.
So I do that.
I come home, my pants are tighttoo, I've gained five pounds.
But what happens for me is Ifeel like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna
(35:56):
get back on track, but I don't.
Michele Folan (35:58):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (35:58):
Because I've turned on, like the spigot has
been turned on and I'm addictedto sugar.
And I just keep eating thesweets.
I have trouble stopping.
So I don't have the same kindof control as person number one,
you know?
And so that five pounds turnsinto 10 or 15 pounds.
It could be months before Ifeel like I'm back on track.
(36:20):
Okay, that's the difference.
That's somebody who's more inthe addictive realm of the
emotional eating spectrum thanthe run-of-the-mill emotional
eater realm.
Everybody emotionally eats,like eating feels good.
Carbs and sugar feel good inthe moment.
They hit our, like they give usa serotonin, you know, hit, a
dopamine hit, you know, and soit feels good, it works, but
(36:43):
what you do with that, how muchcontrol you have or how what the
consequences are, that's whatdetermines whether you're
addicted or not.
So that's the first thing ispeople don't realize they can
absolutely be addicted.
Now it's not like you'readdicted to all foods.
I mean, I rarely will like likesit up at night wishing I could
have steak, you know, like orchicken.
So it's usually like, you know,cookies and ice cream and you
(37:08):
know, ooey gooey, chewy foods,because those are the ones that
do give us that dopamine hit.
Those are the things that comein pretty packages.
They feel good, they tastegood, and they numb us.
They numb us.
Salads don't numb us.
So I'm talking about beingaddicted to processed foods, you
know, foods that are highlyprocessed, they're they have a
(37:29):
lot of sugar in them, you know,and carbs do metabolize as
sugar.
So if you're if bread's yourthing or pasta is your thing,
it's sugar.
When, you know, when it hitsyour bloodstream, it's sugar.
And so really important forpeople to know that you can be
addicted, but it's not likeaddicted to all foods.
It's and you do have to eat,you know, but it's addicted to
the highly processed foods.
(37:51):
But also, I think that's whythis is so hard for people to
wrap their head around, isbecause you have to eat.
So we we we dog ourselves forbeing like out of control with
food.
Like, what's wrong with me?
It's just cookies.
This is so stupid.
And so we feel like we have tolike fix it on our own because
(38:12):
it's just cookies.
It's not like I'm putting aneedle in my arm, you know.
So we downplay it and dismissit, even though it's killing us.
Like people die daily ofdiabetes, you know, and most
like a good number of people inour, you know, in in our country
(38:32):
are pre-diabetic and don't evenknow it, you know.
So it's a big problem.
And if you die from diabetes,at first you, you know, you get
your limbs cut off.
Michele Folan (38:41):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (38:42):
Right?
You get amputations.
You don't just die of diabetes,you you try to save yourself
with amputations.
It's bad.
It's really bad.
And we just we we're in denial.
Like a big, you know, indicatorof or a telltale sign of
addiction is denial, whichstands for don't even notice I
(39:02):
am lying.
You know, so we fool ourselves.
It's just cookies.
I say it's one of the worst andhardest addictions overcome
because you have to eat.
And you're likely not going toovercome it on your own, uh,
like no other addiction you cantypically overcome on your own.
And this is one of them.
Michele Folan (39:20):
And so, yeah, and again, I could go on for days
if you take me down this roadabout diabetes and insulin
resistance and metabolicdisease.
And then we've got the numberone killer of women is
cardiovascular disease, which ispart of that whole metabolic
syndrome.
(39:41):
And so anyway, I and I hearyou, but I guess you know, I
would want to know then once anemotional eater, always an
emotional eater.
Do you ever get to drop thatname?
Tricia Nelson (39:53):
So, well, here's the thing I think we all can
emotionally eat.
I think those who are on thelower end of the uh Spectrum,
you know, if you take the quizand you you're like on the low
end of the spectrum, chances areit's you know, you're not going
to be in a big danger place.
And it's not, it's it's reallyagain the consequences, the
consequences and control.
(40:14):
If you have control to coursecorrect after a cruise or
vacation, good on you.
Like consider yourself lucky,you know.
And it's always, you know, ourrelationship with food is like a
relationship with money.
Anybody can overspend, anybodycan overeat, you know?
And so it's like, are we usingmoney or food for to enhance our
(40:37):
lives?
Are we using it to punishourselves, you know,
subconsciously?
Like, because you can get in alot of trouble overspending, you
know, or you can course correctand you know, tighten your belt
and that kind of thing.
So it's a relationship and it'sa relationship we will always
have.
Like you just like money, it'sa relationship you can't get
away from.
You'll always have arelationship with food and with
(40:58):
your body, you know?
And so I would say if you havedisordered eating, if you're on
the high end of the emotionaleating spectrum, more on the
addiction part of it, you canalways fall down the rabbit
hole.
I don't consider myself cured.
I'm freer than I've ever beenaround food on most days.
You know, like you look at meand you're like, I'm normal
(41:20):
weight, I eat normally, youknow, it's like I don't binge,
I'm not drawn to sweets anymore.
So, so I seem normal, but it'sonly because I'm highly aware,
like I'm vigilant and I take myown medicine that I prescribe to
my clients.
So I prescribe, not literallyprescribe, but I I have a whole
(41:42):
system for people to healemotional eating.
But it's a system that I stilldo as well.
So I didn't get to some pointwhere I'm like, I'm good.
No, I've learned from bitterexperience, you can fall down
the rabbit hole.
You can relapse, you know, justlike alcohol with alcoholic
with alcohol, you can fall downthat rabbit hole by thinking
you're cured.
(42:02):
And I've done it.
So I know it doesn't, itdoesn't, it doesn't, you know,
farewell, like bode well whenyou think you're cured and then
you start eating all kinds ofthings that are slippery.
Like there are foods that areslippery for me, and I don't
wanna like I don't want toignite that crazy in me, that
(42:23):
that craving for those things.
So there are foods I sidestep,you know, but I don't crave them
anymore because of theemotional work that I do and the
work on my stress.
Remember, I said, oh, I didn'teven finish that.
I said emotions, stress, andhabit.
These are the three things thatcreate that compulsion.
(42:44):
So we have to address theemotions, we have to address the
stress, but we also have tocreate new habits.
And that's the part that I do,you know, uh, well, all three of
those things I do on a dailybasis.
Those are the things that myclients are doing to heal.
And so um I'm just not, I don'thave to eat sweets anymore.
It's not a, they're not callingmy name, but that's because I'm
(43:06):
addressing my stress and myemotions and I have new habits
of how to deal with life onlife's terms.
Michele Folan (43:14):
Can you share a client success story that really
illustrates what's possibleeven after decades of struggle?
Tricia Nelson (43:23):
Yes.
And most of my women are inmidlife.
You know, most of the women Ihelp are in their 50s, 60s, and
70s.
I have a few in their 80s and afew in their 30s and 40s.
But, you know, most of my womenhave been dieting for decades,
literally, you know, 40, 50years of roller coaster ride
dieting.
I will have so many coolstories, but Hazel's one person,
(43:47):
she was obese, morbidly obese,I think um is the awful term.
And she uh was super unhappybecause of it.
I mean, it's just you know,when you walk around with X a
hundred extra pounds in yourbody, it makes life harder.
Yeah.
On every possible level, youknow?
And so she's lost close to 100pounds uh through my program.
(44:10):
And she's speaking, but shedidn't do it through diet, like
she doesn't diet.
So my ladies lose weightwithout dieting.
And some people think that'sabsolutely impossible.
It's really not.
It's we do it like it's whatwe're doing, it's what I did,
it's what what I teach.
And it's through changing, youknow, the way they're living.
So she meditates on a dailybasis, she journals her
(44:33):
feelings, she's in communitywith other emotional eaters.
I do a lot, a lot of my programis done in community on Zoom,
you know, because we need peoplewho get us, you know, who
understand what it's like tofeel powerless over cookies.
So she's engaged in thecommunity.
And over, I'd say about a year,maybe a year and a half, she's
lost close to a hundred poundsand she's still losing.
(44:55):
And at some point she plateauedand so she dug into what that
was about.
And it was fear.
Like she was her body waschanging.
People's responses to her werechanging, and so she had to get
underneath that.
So I'm really teaching peoplehow to deal with the underlying
causes of their emotionaleating.
Pat is a woman, she's 82, Ithink.
(45:16):
And she came to me about uh sixor seven years ago.
She's now a coach in myprogram, and she came to me,
Finn.
She was, you know, a lifetimeWeight Watchers person.
So she had lost 50 pounds, butshe was about to put it back on.
Michele Folan (45:30):
Yeah.
Tricia Nelson (45:31):
You know, and this is a problem with people on
GLP ones now, is it's like,okay, I lost the weight.
What now?
What am I gonna do now?
You know, am I gonna be onmedication for the rest of my
life?
And so Pat came to me notwanting to put those 50 pounds
back on, and her life is sodifferent, but it's all through
changing the way she's living.
She has three kids, adultchildren who have families, and
(45:53):
her holidays are different.
Like she doesn't run aroundlike a crazy woman, you know,
perfectionist trying to make theholidays perfect.
That's that's when she came tome.
She just felt crazy, you know,because she was such a
perfectionist and had all thispressure on herself.
So now her kids each take anight, they cook the meals.
They, she's like, Trisha,sometimes they serve like the
(46:14):
holiday dinner on paper plates.
And she's like, I would neverdo that.
But she's like, but I let itgo.
I let it go because I don'twant to be a crazy person.
I want to, you know, share inthe responsibilities, which
means I get to let go of howit's done.
And so she's adjusted, like,okay, we're eating on paper
plates.
Like, that's how we're doingthe holidays.
And so, but that's big, right?
(46:35):
Like, because emotion, yeah,emotion leaders are control
freaks.
Like we want to, and we createour own stress that way.
So much of our stress isself-created by being a
perfectionist, by needing it acertain way.
So she let go of that and she'slike, I don't have to worry
about it.
And they put the, you know, thesweet, yummy, goe gooey chewy
foods.
They have a, there's a cupboardassigned for them, you know.
(46:56):
So I don't have to look at it.
But she's changing how she'sdoing life, you know, and her
relationship of over 50 years ofmarriage, her relationship with
her husband's better than ever,her relationship with her kids
are better than ever.
And she swims three days a weekat the senior Y.
Like she's like so healthy andhappy.
And she's like, I didn't wantto go out continuing to struggle
(47:18):
with food.
She's, you know, I didn't wantto end my life never having
figured this part out.
So those are a couple stories.
No, this is great.
Michele Folan (47:26):
And you know, this also tells me one that
there is hope you can resolvethis and get a handle on it.
And it's not too late.
You if you have someone that'sin their 80s and they're they're
they're just figuring this outnow, yeah, but now she's she's
getting herself healthy.
And I that's such a greatexample of hey, you're 55 right
(47:52):
now.
It now's your chance.
Get get a handle on it nowbecause you've got so many
wonderful years ahead to livefully.
Amen.
Yeah.
What inspired you to write HealYour Hunger?
And who'd you have in mind whenyou wrote it?
Tricia Nelson (48:06):
I mean, the book is is my work.
I mean, that's the I codifiedwhat I used to do with my mentor
when we helped people in ourliving room.
You know, we used to havepeople one at a time in our
living room, and I'm just like,this is not scalable.
We're not helping enoughpeople.
And so I codified the work andI put it into a step-by-step
process.
So it's super clear,step-by-step system.
(48:28):
It's not nebulous, like mindfuleating or intuitive eating.
It's like, no, do this, then dothis, then do this.
And I laid it out in my bookcalled Heal Your Hunger: Seven
Simple Steps to End EmotionalEating.
And that's what I teach people.
You know, it's it's the onlything the book doesn't have is
the community.
I mean, it doesn't go superdeep.
It's a hundred and like 20-pagebook, but uh it's a it's an
(48:51):
easy, fun read because that'scartoons that are kind of funny.
But anyway, my program is basedon that.
And the book can't give you thecommunity.
And the community is vital tohealing because, you know, our
heads are talking smack to usevery single day.
And uh, and if it's just us andour heads, our head is gonna
(49:12):
win, you know.
Whereas if you have a communityof women who are cheering you
on and telling you good things,you know, and we're celebrating
the wins, oh, it makes it somuch easier to treat ourselves
with love and respect.
Michele Folan (49:25):
You know, that came up at my podcast that is
out right now.
So it was 12, 15 or so when Idropped that podcast.
And we talk a lot about theimportance of community, whether
you are working on youremotional eating or it's uh your
weight loss journey, or youwant to learn how to write and
(49:50):
publish a book or whatever,having those people around you
that are like-minded, that yourealize I'm not alone in this
and I'm not strange or weird.
There are other people justlike me, and uh they're there to
help you as well.
Tricia Nelson (50:06):
Absolutely.
So it's invaluable.
And we, especially as mosteaters, we tend to isolate
because we're embarrassed andashamed of our behaviors.
Um, and a lot of them are donein secret, and so we have to
come out of the shadows andaccept help and have just, you
know, uh positive reinforcementso that we can change how we
(50:27):
think about ourselves.
Michele Folan (50:28):
One last quick question about this if we have
someone in our life that we knowwho is an emotional eater, how
can we push them to have thatawareness and get help?
Tricia Nelson (50:43):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
What I recommend is my book tosomebody.
And the reason, oh I mean, it'sa good book.
I'm not gonna lie, I think it'sgreat.
Um, and a lot of people havegotten so much help from it.
But the point about the book isthat the book focuses on the
underlying causes and it reallyhelps people shift their
thinking around this.
(51:04):
Most people think diet andexercise is the only solution
available to them, or now it'sdiet and exercise and
medication.
Like those are the options.
And I offer a different option,which is taking that deeper
journey and healing theunderlying causes, healing the
living problem, which uh theeating problem just naturally
follows.
(51:24):
And so people don't know that.
And so they're so defeated anddemoralized by the dieting
roller coaster ride when theyand they're like, oh, that like
I've tried everything.
But when they read my book,they're like, oh, I didn't know
there was a different tack youcan take.
And so the book might be a justa hopeful thing for them to
(51:44):
realize, oh, okay, I don't haveto do all that restriction and
pain and you know, binging againand all that.
That's that's like set me backtime and time again.
Like there's actually a littletrapdoor where I can exit that
and then have a whole new paththat I can take to success.
Michele Folan (52:05):
Oh, I love it.
So, Trisha Nelson, where canthe listeners find you, your
programs, and your book?
Tricia Nelson (52:12):
Yeah, uh the best place is my website, which is
healyourhunger.com, H E A L,healyourhunger.com.
My TEDx talk is on there.
It has close to three millionviews.
Um, my book is on my there, mypodcast, uh, Confessions of a
Binge Eater is on there.
So this is in the quiz.
Take the quiz.
Go to the website,healyourhunger.com, and first
(52:34):
take that quiz, and then you canfind the other things as well.
Okay, all that will go in theshow notes.
Michele Folan (52:40):
We didn't even talk about your podcast, but
we've had so much to talk about.
Tricia Nelson (52:45):
Trisha Nelson, thank you so much for being a
guest today.
Thanks for having me.
It's been so much fun.
It's really, I reallyappreciate you and your amazing
questions and thoroughness.
And I appreciate you and allthat you do to help people heal.
Oh, thank you, Trisha.
Michele Folan (53:03):
Before you go, thank you for being here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
(53:26):
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com