February 24, 2026 • 55 mins
We spend a lot of time and money chasing better skin.
But what actually matters after 50?
In this episode of Asking for a Friend, I sit down with board-certified dermatologist Dr. Brooke Jeffy for a practical, no-nonsense conversation about midlife skin health.
We focus on what truly moves the needle:
• The non-negotiables of an effective skincare routine
• Retinol vs. tretinoin — do you need a prescription?
• Sunscreen myths and why protection still matters decades later
• What early melanoma can look like — and why vigilance matters
• Hair loss in menopause and what actually helps
We also discuss Korean Beauty (K-Beauty) and why this segment is intriguing to Brooke.
Dr. Jeffy also shares how her own recent melanoma diagnosis has reshaped her perspective on prevention and patient care.
This episode isn’t about 12-step routines or viral trends.
It’s about protecting your skin, making smarter decisions, and avoiding expensive hype.
Because midlife skin health isn’t just cosmetic, it’s preventative.
You can find Dr. Brooke Jeffy at https://www.brookejeffymd.com/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/brookejeffymd/
Dr. Jeffy's teen skincare line, bwtn, can be found at https://www.instagram.com/meetbtwn/
Her favorite eye cream can be purchased at https://retrouve.com/https://retrouve.com/
_________________________________________
If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, adding a layer of support may be an option. I’ve partnered with a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 and other peptide therapies.
https://elliemd.com/michelefolan - Create a free account to view all products.
Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/askingforafriend_pod/
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Like to connect? Email me at askingforafriendpodcast1@gmail.com
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
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Michele Folan (00:00):
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational purposes only andshould not be considered medical
advice.
Please consult a qualifiedhealthcare professional
regarding your individual healthneeds.
You already know I don'tbelieve in shortcuts.
If you're not lifting, walking,eating enough protein, managing
(00:20):
stress, and prioritizing sleep,peptides are not the answer.
Lifestyle is the foundation.
Always.
But here's the truth midlifebiology can be stubborn.
Hormones shift, recovery slows,body composition changes, and
energy dips even when you'redoing the work.
(00:40):
That's where medicallysupported peptide therapy can be
layered in, not as areplacement for discipline, but
as strategic support.
Physician prescribed,clinically guided, compounded
through an FDA-regulatedpharmacy.
This is about optimization, notescape.
If you've built the foundationand feel like you've hit a wall,
(01:02):
this might be the nextintelligence step.
Lifestyle first, strengthmandatory, support biology when
it needs backup.
If this resonates, send me amessage and let's have a real
discussion.
Or check out the link in theshow notes.
We spend a lot of time andmoney chasing good skin, the
(01:42):
right cleanser, the rightretinol, the right serum that
promises to turn back time.
But what if the realconversation isn't about glow?
What if it's about survival?
Today's guest is someone whohas built a reputation as the
no-nonsense dermatologist bestfriend you wish you had in your
group chat.
She's practical, she'saccessible, she cuts through the
(02:06):
noise and tells you exactlywhat works and what's just
expensive hype.
But this conversation hits alittle differently because she's
not just talking about melanomafrom a clinical standpoint.
She's walking through her ownmelanoma diagnosis right now.
So today we're going deeper.
We're talking about whatmelanoma actually looks like and
(02:29):
how prognosis changes by stage,what every woman should know
about skin cancer risk.
And we're also going to talkabout skincare advice you should
ignore, drugstore gems andsplurge-worthy products, hair
loss in midlife, and whatactually helps, and the
procedures that truly are worthyour money.
If you've ever felt overwhelmedby skincare advice, if you've
(02:51):
ever brushed off a changingmole, if you've wondered what
hype is and what's ruralmedicine, stay right here.
Dr.
Brooke Jeffy, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (03:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Michele Folan (03:04):
It's really nice to see you.
I was telling Brooke that, youknow, I've been following her
for quite some time.
And it's always so fun to likesee people in real life on right
here in the podcast land.
So anyway, it's really great.
So for those meeting you forthe first time, what led you to
(03:25):
dermatology?
Was that always your plan?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (03:28):
Definitely not.
There were actually a lot ofsteps along the way where I kind
of tried to talk myself out ofbeing a physician.
And I definitely had no ideawhen I started medical school
that I would ultimately be indermatology.
I definitely had a lot a stronginterest in medicine growing
up.
Actually, had another chroniccondition that I grew up with.
(03:51):
But you know, medicine is along, hard road.
So I really tried to figure outother careers that would make
me happy.
But ultimately in college, Idid decide to pursue medical
school.
Um, but even after goingthrough medical school, I
actually did two years ofpathology residency training
because I really wasn't surewhat I wanted to do.
And pathology lets you interactwith a bunch of different
(04:14):
conditions and um, you know,different, different um uh
specialties.
So it was through that exposureactually, looking at pieces of
skin under the microscope thatreally was my first introduction
to dermatology.
And through that, I got tospend some time in the clinic
and pivoted.
Michele Folan (04:31):
All right.
So that's really fascinatingbecause I was gonna ask you if
the pathology kind of led youdown that path of dermatology.
And dermatology residencies, Imean, those are hard to get
because there's so few of them,correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (04:46):
Very true.
I was very fortunate to be ableto make that change and even
get in, you know, to aresidency, a derm residency
program.
I did not get in the firsttime.
I did some, um, actually workedin a pathology lab as I waited
to apply again.
But that's kind of a typicalscenario, you know, that just
(05:09):
really demonstrates to theprogram that you're dedicated.
You don't just decide to pursuesomething else.
Michele Folan (05:15):
Right.
And you have built such a greatreputation on Instagram, I have
to tell you, is you are reallythe no-nonsense dermatologist
best friend.
I said that in the intro.
Where does that approach comefrom?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (05:31):
Yeah, so I'm from the South.
I'm from Kentucky, and I feellike I've always just liked to
make people feel at ease.
You know, I feel like kind ofhospitality and feeling
comfortable is important.
I really like talking to peopleand like getting to know their
story.
And with medicine, that's greatbecause there's just a lot of
relevant things that you pick upwhen you have a conversation
(05:53):
with somebody.
And then yeah, I've just, Ikind of have always just been
very no-nonsense, which has leduh itself well to social media
because people are really justlike they want the facts and
then to keep scrolling and moveon.
Um so, so it serves me well, Iguess.
Michele Folan (06:11):
Well, it it does.
And I know there have to besome things that frustrate you
about the current skincareconversation online.
What are those things?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (06:24):
Definitely.
I mean, one thing that I findreally frustrating is just
there's so many voices out therethat often just don't make
sense to me why they're even inthe conversation.
You know, influencers, um, youknow, just kind of trying to
make a name for themselves orlike push products.
There's a marine biologist thatI see all the time talking
(06:47):
about skincare.
And I'm like, like, what are wedoing here?
Um, so you know, there'sdefinitely people who are well
suited to talk about this, andthose should be the people with
the loudest voices.
I also think in uh a large partof the skincare conversation or
just skin health that we missis not talking about protection
enough, but also just therelevance of the rest of our
(07:08):
life choices.
You know, what we decide toeat, how we decide to take care
of our bodies in terms of likeadequate sleep and avoiding
alcohol and things like that.
All of those things play a rolein helping our skin look and
feel its best, and also beingable to defend itself against um
exposures and resist thingslike cancer development.
Michele Folan (07:28):
You know, I had um I interviewed an integrative
health doctor this morning.
And of course, everything goesback to lifestyle in in so many
ways, right?
I mean, there it's it's thewhole body approach, and
dermatology is not limited tojust skin, it's really what
we're putting in our bodies andhow we're treating ourselves.
(07:49):
So this that's really a coolperspective.
I like that a lot.
All right, I want to hit thistopic out of the gate with you
because you are currentlywalking your own melanoma
journey.
And I would love to know howyou found it because you are a
dermatologist.
I didn't know if you do yourown self-exams.
(08:10):
And then walk us through whatyour your mindset was when you
got the diagnosis.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (08:17):
Yeah, so I mean, I will say I've been
saying for many years that um Ifelt like I was probably going
to get a melanoma.
So I grew up going to tanningbeds very often.
I worked in a tanning salon.
When we didn't have customers,I would like prop my legs in
(08:37):
there and just, you know, studyor read or whatever I was doing.
I loved being at the beach.
I thought it was so fun to getlike a burn and be able to peel
off that skin.
I mean, like, then I go tomedical school and I really felt
like, yeah, this is going tohappen to me.
The question is just like when.
So I've been uh pretty well,very diligent watching uh my
(09:01):
skin in light of this.
I mean, I've been strictlyprotecting myself for like close
to 25 years now.
So just watching thingsoccasionally I have had skin
exams.
This is bad.
I have had skin exams by otherpeople, but often it's just me,
you know, keeping an eye onthings.
And so what happened was Inoticed a new spot that popped
up on my left calf.
(09:21):
Um, and that's important forpeople to understand.
Most melanoma actually doescome up as a new spot.
Um, it's much more common thanhaving a mole that you've had
longstanding develop, you know,change into melanoma.
So I noticed this new spot.
I watched it for a few weeks.
It just looked off.
It looked different from mostof my other spots, of which I
(09:44):
have a lot.
And that is something thatdermatologists refer to as like
the ugly duckling sign, um,something that pops up that
looks different than all of yourother spots.
And so I actually biopsied itmyself because I was like, okay,
I need to get this done, buthard to like get in on a you
know somebody's schedule andtake time out of clinic.
Like, I can reach this, let mejust do it.
(10:05):
So um I did that.
So um so yeah, basically Ireceived the report myself.
Actually, the pathologistcalled me because obviously they
they knew me and saw me as thepatient name.
And so uh she called to to giveme the diagnosis and chat with
me um about exactly what she wasseeing.
(10:26):
So I mean, it's scary, but andeven sometimes people, since
I've been sharing online, havebeen kind of saying, well, like
you just seem like verycomfortable with it.
I wouldn't say I'm comfortable,but it's something, like I
said, that I've lived withthinking was probably like I
have all this risk.
So I've kind of sat with it forlike a really long time.
(10:47):
And then obviously I diagnosepeople with this all the time.
And so there's almost like acomfort comfort and like almost
a detachment, sort of, thatallows us to survive, I guess.
Um, but definitely it's scaryand and obviously something I'll
be taking seriously andcontinuing to get like more
(11:08):
routine exams with someone elseto be sure that I am seeing
everything.
But I do feel, you know, itwasn't the earliest, but it was
still very early.
So I feel very confident thatum as long as I keep being
vigilant, um, hopefully thingswill be fine.
Michele Folan (11:26):
So, how has this experience personally changed
now how you will practicemedicine?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (11:36):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a different
appreciation for people I givethis diagnosis to.
I uh just this week, earlierthis week, um, I had a
conversation with another youngwoman, middle-aged woman, who I
um did a biopsy of last week andcame back as a melanoma.
And yeah, that conversation wasthe first conversation I've had
(12:00):
since my diagnosis, and itdefinitely was harder.
Just the kind of empathy andlike go, you know, knowing what
she has ahead of her.
So I think it's gonna make me amore like empathetic, you know,
physician in in that aspect.
But I again, like just to bereal, to be a physician, you
have to, you have to have alittle bit of a wall, right?
(12:22):
Otherwise, if you you can'tsurvive, like you have to
protect yourself a little bit,but I definitely can see that
that it has, and I guess I'mgonna say cracked a little bit.
Michele Folan (12:33):
You know, we have not really talked about
melanoma much.
I mean, I've had plenty ofdermatologists and and plastic
surgeons, that sort of thing, onthe show, but we've not really
dug into this.
And what early signs do wetypically ignore that we
shouldn't as women?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (12:51):
Well, you know, skin cancers are
challenging sometimes becausevery often people will dismiss
them as like even pimples.
Like sometimes um a skin cancercalled a basal cell skin cancer
can often look like an acnetype of bump.
So they'll kind of brush itoff.
So, my, you know, what I tellpeople is like try to keep an
(13:14):
eye on things.
If you notice something thatpops up, it seems like it should
heal, you think it's an acnebump.
If it's not gone in like amonth or so, you need to get it
checked out.
I mean, nobody's missing thesegiant, you know, pictures online
you see of melanoma where it'slike four colors and it's
bleeding.
I mean, you're not gonna missthat.
(13:35):
It's but but things start outmuch more subtle often.
So you just kind of have to bevigilant about that, definitely
keeping an eye on your skin.
Just if you notice anythingoff, I think you've got to
question it.
If you're someone who's had alot of exposure, you know, you
did tanning beds, you um hadblistering sunburns, get checked
(13:55):
periodically.
That's something that's come upa lot with people um since I've
started sharing my stories.
They think, oh, well, like Istopped doing that, you know, I
haven't done that in 20 years orwhatever.
It doesn't matter.
Like your DNA is alreadydamaged from that.
So yeah, it's just reallywatching, asking, asking
questions.
Michele Folan (14:13):
Yeah.
So my story, I had I had astage zero melanoma four years
ago, I think it was.
And so I still go every sixmonths.
I go this month, as a matter offact, to get skin checked.
Now, that was stage zero.
Yours is stage one, correct?
Okay.
What would be the difference inyour approach from stage zero,
(14:35):
stage one to three?
Like how talk us through that.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (14:40):
Yeah, so staging for melanoma, uh, for
melanoma relies on certaincharacteristics that we see
under the microscope or that weassess clinically.
So, under the microscope, we'relooking for things like how
deep is the melanoma?
So, for example, you're in siteto melanoma, what that means is
that those melanocytes that umare the cells that give us
(15:03):
pigment in the skin, those arewhat become malignant to cause
melanoma.
So they're usually in like thevery base layer of the
epidermis, which is like theuppermost layer of the skin.
Underneath that, you have thedermis.
So if those melanocytes thatare um malignant, if they're
staying in the epidermis, thatis melanoma in psi 2 or stage
(15:24):
zero.
Once they break through theepidermis, they're in the
dermis, where they have accessto other things like blood
vessels, that is where you gethigher stages.
So the depth matters.
Um, and even once it's brokenthrough that um into the dermis,
we still take measurementsbeyond that.
And that again influences wherewe stage it.
(15:45):
Um, but it's the depth, it'salso ulceration.
So my pathologist will alwayscomment on whether the tumor has
ulcer under the microscope.
And then the other things weevaluate when we're staging
would be in deeper melanomasdoes someone need to have their
lymph nodes checked withsomething like a sentinel lymph
node biopsy, or do they need tojust, you know, have their lymph
(16:06):
nodes removed because it's ahigh enough stage?
And then distance spread, likehas it spread to other places in
the body?
So as you can probably imagine,stage zero is going to be much
less risk overall to someone.
And essentially, if you have anexcision, it is um essentially
cured.
I think like the the 10-yearsurvival for that is 99% of
(16:28):
people who have it excised willstill be alive at 10 years.
And those numbers, of course,like go down as you go up
through the stages.
So most of the time you'regonna have the lesion excised.
Whether or not other treatment,um, other evaluations are done
depends on the depth.
And then, of course, treatment.
So things like stage fourmelanoma, I mean, you're gonna
(16:51):
be talking about likechemotherapy and immunotherapy,
things like that.
So it's kind of nuanced, evenwithin these stages, there's
different levels, but that'ssort of like the spectrum.
So basically, you go from likealmost 100% being cured if it's
removed to like stage four,which is about 40% survival.
Um, if you do like all theaggressive therapies.
Michele Folan (17:11):
Holy shit.
I mean, I that that's that'sscary.
This is that's scary stuff tome.
I, you know, I I I think aboutpeople who in my own life who I
know who have had it and havenot survived it.
But so we we talk about lots ofsun exposure in our younger
(17:34):
years, tanning beds.
Is there a hereditary componentto this?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (17:39):
There is a hereditary component.
There are definitely some uhgenetic abnormalities that can
be associated with uh melanomaand often with some other
malignancies to kind of like arethat are sometimes associated
with it.
But it doesn't mean that everyperson that has melanoma is
going to have, you know, agenetic abnormality that that we
can test for.
So um I don't honestly, I mean,when I'm talking to my
(18:03):
patients, it's you know, kind ofa discussion.
Do you want to have genetictesting done?
Do you want to know those, youknow, if there's associated risk
of other things like breastcancer, colon cancer, pancreatic
cancer, but like in reality,like you've got to get screened
for all those things too.
So it's just it just mightaffect how aggressive uh and how
frequent you are screening.
Michele Folan (18:20):
You know, I just remembered this.
Um, a friend of mine, childhoodfriend, her father was Arab and
he died of melanoma.
So it doesn't matter if you'repale with freckles or if you're
a very brown skin person,correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (18:36):
That's correct.
It absolutely doesn't.
And the thing is, I think partof that is that people with more
pigmented skin, they don'tthink they have the risk.
And it often is detected muchlater when it is detected.
So, you know, I think that'sthat's just that's just in the
background of it.
Also, people, um, you know,certain um people with um, you
(18:59):
know, different access to careis gonna be influenced.
They don't think they need uhskin exams or it's harder for
them to see a dermatologist.
Um so all these all thesethings definitely play a role,
but nobody's risk is zero, Ithink is like the takeaway.
But certainly there are peoplewho are gonna be a bit more at
risk, like you said, if you'refair skin, if you've had a lot
of blistering sunburns, donetanning beds, that sort of
(19:21):
thing.
Michele Folan (19:21):
All right.
Dr.
Jeffy, we're gonna take a quickbreak, and when we come back, I
want to talk about sunscreenand prevention.
Before we jump back intotoday's conversation, I want to
ask you something.
If you've been listening for awhile, you know this podcast
isn't fluff.
We talk about muscle,metabolism, hormones, brain
health, longevity, the stuffthat actually determines how we
(19:44):
live in our 70s, 80s, andbeyond.
And the show keeps growingbecause you share it.
So if an episode has helped yourethink your health, send it to
a friend, text it to yoursister, share it with your
walking buddy.
That's how this communityexpands.
Smart, curious women bringingother smart, curious women with
(20:04):
them.
Also, I'd love to hear fromyou.
What topics do you want me toexplore?
Who do you want me tochallenge?
What questions are you afraidto ask but secretly one
answered?
You can use the link in theshow notes to join the community
or send me an email with yourideas directly.
This podcast exists becauseyou're asking better questions.
(20:25):
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
Okay, we are back.
Uh, before we went on break, Isaid I wanted to talk about
sunscreen.
I know you are a big fan.
I think there's a lot ofmisinformation out there about
the safety of sunscreens andhelp us out here.
(20:45):
What should we be using?
What should we be looking forin terms of ingredients and how
often should we be wearingsunscreen?
And I think I know the answerto that, but yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (20:56):
So I would say that you want to think about
how you're protecting your skinevery day.
You know, I do recommend thatpeople are wearing sunscreen on
exposed skin like every day,even if it's winter, because I
mean, part of it is like thehabit portion of it.
Part of it is if you're busy, Imean you think you're at home,
(21:18):
but then like something comes upand you need to leave the
house, like then you're notprotected.
So it's good, I think, to justlike at least get an application
on in the morning, get it outof the way.
Of course, there is a lot oftalk and concern about sunscreen
ingredients and chemicalsunscreens versus mineral
sunscreens.
And you know, I think thebottom line is you have to be
(21:40):
comfortable with what you'redoing.
The, you know, if you kind ofwant to avoid most of the
controversy, you rely more onsun protective clothing.
Unfortunately, though, youcan't wear like a mask.
And I'm not saying I agree withthe controversy.
This is like a very long kindof discussion here, but you
know, you can't just Wear a maskon your face all the time, most
(22:01):
likely.
So you have to come up withsomething that at least you can
use on your face, and then maybeyou focus on some protective
clothing, maybe that feels morecomfortable for you on the rest
of the body.
Um, so then you're likeminimizing the use of this
product you're rubbing on.
But yeah, I mean if you want tokind of avoid the controversy,
mineral sunscreens.
The issue is that chemicalsunscreens, we do know that if
(22:23):
you are using them reallyconsistently on large parts of
the body and you're using enoughof them, which are a bunch of
ifs because most people do notuse them as intended exactly.
But if you were, studies showyou're doing that for multiple
days in a row, it can bemeasured.
The chemical sunscreens can bemeasured in your blood.
We don't know what that means,if anything, but that idea
(22:44):
bothers people.
Mineral sunscreens are not.
So you can just avoid the wholething.
And mineral sunscreens aretitanium and zinc.
Everything else is a chemicalsunscreen.
So just use something that hasmineral, uh, you know, a mineral
uh filter and feel good aboutit.
Try to protect yourself, youknow, with some protective
clothing.
I mean, it's really hard tokeep sunscreen on all of our,
(23:05):
you know, all of our body.
It's messy.
You got to reapply itfrequently if you really want
that protection.
But I am also someone that likeI love to be outside.
And um, you know, I think we doneed sunlight in our lives,
right?
I'm not someone that's sayinglike you should be a hermit and
stay in to avoid the sun, butyou have to do it smart and you
(23:26):
have to be protecting yourself,using the shade, that sort of
thing.
But light is important for ourcircadian rhythms.
We're learning more about it inthe longevity space.
So you just have to thinkthrough the strategy.
This is obviously something I'msuper passionate about.
I love talking about sunprotection strategies for
people.
Michele Folan (23:43):
Well, and I so I I wear sunscreen on my face
every day.
Now, is that for cancerprevention?
Probably not.
It's more for vanity.
But if you That works, yeah.
If you just think of it fromlook, I I won't maybe my knees
won't look saggy when I'm 82 anduh my face will look somewhat
(24:06):
decent.
You know, my mom, I will saythis my mom looked always looked
younger than what she wasbecause she wore sunscreen every
single day on her face.
She also used Vaseline on herface every day, too, which it's
a whole nother story.
But you know, that'sencouraging to me.
And because my dad was aredhead with freckles, you know,
(24:28):
we we all are freckled and wealways wore sunscreen even as
kids.
Now that didn't mean we didn'thave burns, because I did have
plenty of burns prior to that,but you know, we keep our
fingers crossed too.
But I think just from thevanity perspective, if we can
just get people thinking inthose terms, but you're saying
(24:49):
though, if we are out taking ourdaily walk, whatever, we should
be at least covering up, if notwearing sunscreen.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (24:58):
Yes.
I mean, I think the covering upis what you rely on because
it's more fully, it's more fullprotection.
You don't have to reapply yourhat.
It's just it's on your face.
I mean, you know, it's on yourhead.
Right.
But, you know, like I said,just there are areas you can't
cover.
So then you, you know, you doneed to have a sunscreen
strategy as as part of it.
But I love what you say aboutthe vanity.
Yes, that's usually how Iappeal try to appeal to people,
(25:19):
is because like you're comingin, most people they're like
wanting, they're not happy withtheir brown spots.
I'm like, okay, well, we're notgonna get anywhere unless
you're being really strict aboutthe sun protection.
So um definitely the vanity isa useful way to convince people
too.
Michele Folan (25:35):
Yeah, well, that would be me.
So, all right, there is so muchadvice out there.
Instagram, TikTok, lots of redflags, as we were talking about.
There are a lot of people thatreally shouldn't be giving
advice or are out there givingadvice.
What in your mind are the truenon-negotiables for an effective
(25:59):
routine?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (26:00):
So, of course, sun protection, number one.
You're not getting anywherewithout that.
Then I would say a retinoid.
So, whether it be anover-the-counter product, a
prescription product, um, butthese uh a retinoid will help to
maintain your collagen.
It will also help with pigmentchanges.
And then the othernon-negotiable, I think, is an
(26:21):
antioxidant type of treatment.
So very commonly, this will belike a vitamin C that you're
using with your sunscreen in themorning.
These I am referring to becauseI talk a lot about kids'
skincare.
I'm talking about adults here,but these are non-negotiably
that are evidence-based.
Um, I also would add peptides.
Um, those are uh like thefourth thing I would add in a
(26:42):
complete kind of regimen for anadult um trying to maintain
healthy skin.
Michele Folan (26:47):
Okay.
So let's back up to theretinoid.
So there's tretinoin.
Are there any over-the-counterdupes that are worth their
money?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (27:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, you don't have to havea prescription tretinoin to get
benefit to your skin, you know,from from a retinoid.
So over-the-counter retinolsare very, they can be as
effective.
Studies show as long as you'reusing um, I think it's yeah,
it's the O25, sorry, the 0.25%retinol, it's equivalent to the
lowest strength tretinoin interms of benefit over 12 weeks.
(27:23):
So um, yeah, you don't have tohave a prescription.
Um, and the issue with theprescriptions a lot of times is
that sometimes they will be alittle more irritating to the
skin.
So an over-the-counter retinoluh might actually be a little
bit more tolerable for a lot ofpeople.
So yeah, there's also adappline, which is another
over-the-counter retinoid, um,more studied for acne, but it
(27:46):
used to be a prescription, andnow you can get that
over-the-counter.
But people do use it foranti-aging.
It probably does, you know,have an equivalent benefit, but
more studied for acne.
So there's definitelyover-the-counter options.
Michele Folan (27:58):
Was that different?
Yeah, that was different.
Okay.
And then in terms of, do you ita favorite brand of
over-the-counter that you thinkis is effective?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (28:07):
It of a retinol?
You know, I point people tothat rock brand.
Um, Serave has a retinol now.
I mean, there's obviously muchmore expensive brands that have
retinols too, but I think thethe bottom line is to be sure
it's like a reputable company.
But I think, yeah, there's alot of options out there.
But those are the usual,usually the two that I point out
(28:28):
to people.
Michele Folan (28:29):
All right.
And then I know La Roche Posayis a nice brand.
I always feel fancy when I'mbuying a little La Roche Posey.
But there's a lot of Koreanskincare products out there,
K-Beauty.
Is there really a differencebetween those products and what
we typically have here?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (28:50):
So um I'm very excited about this topic
because my my husband isactually in Korea right now.
And uh he was just walking medown the aisles of beauty at
Costco yesterday via, you know,video, and amazing to me, like
just how many products.
But yes, I do so the philosophyto skincare is just is
(29:14):
different.
It's more focused on hydrationand you know, simplicity, kind
of in terms of the ingredients,more natural ingredients, things
like snail mucin and scintella.
I mean, so there's just it'sjust a different focus, where in
the US it's more like activesto try to like correct and treat
things.
So they're just like morebarrier focused.
(29:36):
I do find it very uh fun.
And I do think that um they dodifferent things.
There's different deliverysystems, you know, they focus a
lot on masks and essences.
So I think they're fun to thinksome of those products are very
fun to incorporate.
Um, and I do think we're seeinga shift in US beauty to more
(29:58):
focus on skin barrier health andhydration.
So um it's it's interesting howI think that's influenced us
over the past few years.
Michele Folan (30:06):
So I I have used some K Beauty, and I think
there's there is definitely likea glassy kind of look that you
get.
And I I noticed I was in Europethis summer, and there a lot of
the Korean women were there,and they're all covered up, like
(30:26):
arms, hats, face masks, thewhole deal.
But when you did get to see onethat wasn't covered, their
their skin looks incredible.
I mean, obviously they don'tget the sun damage.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (30:39):
Yeah, I think that's the issue.
It's a combination of the factthat like they're staying super
covered, right?
So that keeps their skinbarrier working really well.
They don't get they they're nothaving as much pigment
problems, and then they'recoupling that with these like
really hydration, likeskin-drenching type of
ingredients, and it does helpyou get you know that glow.
(31:00):
I my favorite type of K beautyproduct, like I love snail mucin
um as an ingredient.
Um, so uh yeah, it just impartsthat glow onto your skin.
Michele Folan (31:13):
I've noticed there, even in the US, we're
starting to see some Koreanproducts at Costco.
So the I bought some eyelashserum, and I don't know if it's
working, but well Jerry's out.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (31:28):
I haven't delved much into the eyelash
serum, so that's gonna beinteresting.
I should do some researchthere.
I think you just have to be alittle careful with like, are is
it actually the same product?
I definitely with like thesunscreens, you know, that's
it's not the same product thatyou're getting because in the
US, the sunscreen filters thatare available there, we you
know, are not approved by theFDA.
(31:50):
And then I just think yeah, youit might be possible that
they're tweaked a little bit tobe on the US market.
Michele Folan (31:56):
Yeah, all right.
Well, and I guess I guess Iguess we see that with
everything, right?
That I mean, even some of thereally nice European brands,
like even La Roche-Pose,probably wouldn't be the same as
what you would get elsewhere.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (32:12):
Exactly.
Michele Folan (32:13):
Okay.
I want to know what's thecorrect way to remove our makeup
at night.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (32:19):
So I am a big fan of a double cleanse.
I know some dermatologistsdon't think this matters, but
especially, I mean, honestly, Idon't even want to say
especially for women.
I think for anyone who'swearing sunscreen, but of
course, also if you're wearingmakeup, like most cleansers,
even though they say removemakeup and sunscreen, like I
(32:42):
just don't think they do.
And I've kind of tested thismyself where I and I pretty much
just wear tinted sunscreen, butI've used some of these
cleansers, and then I will takelike my cellar water or
something and and cleanse, youknow, use it afterwards, and
there will still be things onthat pad.
So I do think it's important touse a makeup remover first.
(33:02):
I like my cellar water, or ifyou have drier skin, um, a
cleansing balm, even Vaselineyou can use, and then do your
cleanse after that to be sureyou get everything off before
bed.
And that is anothernon-negotiable.
You gotta get everything thatyou've put on during the day,
dirt, oil, pollution that'saccumulated on the skin.
You gotta get it off beforebed.
Michele Folan (33:24):
Oh, amen.
Woo! Yeah, I'm I'm big on thenightly cleanse.
It I don't care how tired I am,it's it's coming off.
Gotta gotta get it off.
Okay.
Good.
All right.
I I get one point.
Yay.
I know you have a whole list ofunsexy products, and we're
talking your your standbyover-the-counter stuff.
(33:47):
You said Vaseline, which I knowis one of them.
Which are your favorites thatdeliver consistent results for
you?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (33:53):
I mean, my top unsexy product is Vaseline.
I mean, like, you can use itfor everything.
Take your makeup off, fix your,you know, cracked heels, slug
if you've overdone, you know,your retinoid at bedtime or it's
winter, you've got eczema.
I mean, like the proudestmoment at moments I have as a
(34:14):
mom.
I have a 16-year-old son now,but when he has anything going
on with the skin, he's like,should I just put Vaseline on
it?
Yes, yes, you should.
That makes me feel good.
Minoxidil is another just likesuper cheap and easy uh product
that helps with, you know, hairgrowth, eyebrows, you're losing.
Um, so I think that's anotherum product that I always have.
(34:37):
And then Neutrogena is kind ofan unsexy brand that I love a
lot of their products,particularly like the Hydro
Boost line, you know, lightmoisturizers, light sunscreens,
really great products,especially for acne-prone skin
or people who just like hateusing products or men in
particular.
And I know you mentioned likingLa Roche Posey.
(34:58):
I also love La Roche Posey.
Um, I don't know if it's anunsexy product or if it's a sexy
product, but I love theirfacial mist.
Um, you know, it's really greatto hydrate uh to put
moisturizer on moist skin.
So doing a little mist of that,amazing.
Michele Folan (35:15):
You know, I have this, it's a two-phase like oil
spray.
And I use it in the afternoonwhen I don't want to reapply my
makeup.
My face feels dry and in thewintertime, and I'll just spritz
some of that on my face andjust kind of pat it in, then I
don't have to like do the redothe makeup.
So I I like, yeah, that that'ssomething that I do.
(35:38):
You mentioned monoxidel foreyebrows.
Which strength works foreyebrows?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (35:44):
Just don't waste your money on anything
other than the five percentmonoxidil, like just two percent
is trash.
They market that sometimes forwomen.
Um, but yeah, everyone shouldjust be using the five percent.
It doesn't matter if it saysit's for men, five percent for
everything.
Michele Folan (35:58):
If I'm gonna splurge on something, what is
your your favorite splurge?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (36:05):
Hmm.
So I guess I'm just gonnaanswer this by saying like the
most expensive product that Ihave and like to keep is this
brand called Retrove.
They have um this eyeconcentrate that is primarily
squaline.
(36:26):
It's kind of like oily a littlebit, great for like more mature
skin around the eye.
It kind of just gives this likedewy look, but it also has um
some other moisturizers in itand peptides and vitamin C.
I always get compliments whenI'm wearing that.
It just, I don't know, it kindof reflects the light.
I don't know.
I love it.
The founder of that is a womanfrom the Keel's family.
(36:47):
Um, so anyway, that's probablythe most, that's the most
important most expensive productI have in my bathroom.
Michele Folan (36:53):
All right, that one's going in the show notes,
but I have a question.
You talk about eye cream.
Is there really anything outthere that can address puffy
eyes?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (37:03):
I mean, caffeine in an eye cream, maybe
um, I mean, may have some,should have some benefit, but I
mean, like, I struggle withpuffy eyes.
I just am not gonna lie topeople.
Like, I just don't think itdoes much.
Um, you could use like all theingredients I just, you know,
rattled off with that oil that Ilike.
(37:25):
You know, I personally like it.
It's it looks good on my face,but all those same ingredients
are in a lot of other facialserums or your moisturizer.
You don't really have to have aseparate eye cream.
You can just take all thesethings up to your lash line and
not buy another product.
But caffeine, you know, coldthings, like, you know, gentle
(37:48):
um, you know, these like thingsyou can put in the refrigerator
to hold over your eye, these eyepatches that are just cooling,
you know, I mean, that helpsconstrict a little bit.
But I wish, I wish there was aneasy answer.
Michele Folan (38:03):
A woman I used to work with used frozen spoons.
Yeah, frozen spoons.
She can put those in the in thefridge and and that that worked
for her.
So I was like, eh, whatever,whatever, whatever works.
What about guasha?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (38:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think that we can have some
puffiness in our face, that it'syou know, nice to kind of like
stimulate some lymphaticmovement.
I I mean, I think try it.
If it works for you, great.
I just think it's not, youknow, it's not a guarantee for
anybody.
Michele Folan (38:31):
Okay.
It'll feel like self-care.
It makes you feel better.
Sure, yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (38:34):
Take a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
Love that part of it.
Michele Folan (38:37):
I want to ask you about this, and and plenty of
my listeners probably have teengrandchildren.
You went viral talking aboutteens and skincare.
And I think you were justcommenting on a video, and it
went viral.
And so can you talk about thata little bit?
What are, and then what are ouryoung girls doing wrong in
(39:01):
terms of their skincare thesedays?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (39:03):
Yeah, so it's funny.
Like, I I think the virality ofthat video had a little bit to
do with like the child that Iwas commenting on, which is just
really funny.
I mean, I think people thinkthat like, oh, I'm on social
media, I know all these people,I stay on top of all this stuff.
I had no idea who this thatthis was like a Kardashian
child.
Um, you know, my social teamsent me this video and said,
(39:25):
hey, this might be cool tocomment on.
And so I did.
And, you know, I had no idea.
Like, I was not feeling thebest about how, you know, I
hadn't done my hair, whatever.
You know, I was just likethrowing this out there, getting
it done.
So just very funny because Ihad no idea that really that's,
you know, that this was thischild.
But anyway.
So kids are just, you know,into skincare.
(39:46):
I mean, I we're just seeing ityounger and younger.
I mean, it it kind of goesalong with social media being,
you know, so pervasive now.
Um, kids seeing their friends,they're seeing influencers, uh,
they're seeing this youngKardashian child on there
talking about their routine.
So, you know, they're justtrying to fit in and want to
want to use these products.
(40:07):
And, you know, they're littleshoppers and consumers too.
I mean, just like adults.
It's like shiny productsyndrome.
You see what you want, youknow, you see these things, you
want to use them.
So unfortunately, with kids,they're using products often
that have actives designed foradults.
So they're not formulated forthe needs of their skin, and
(40:28):
they're too harsh for it becausekids just have like much more
sensitive skin, especially likethe tweens.
You know, they're not evenmaking much oil, which helps
them tolerate some of thesethings.
So um, I think it's reallyimportant to try to educate them
on what is right and to kind ofhelp parents understand that.
And I kind of saw this wholething coming.
(40:49):
Um, I don't know if you um knowthat I'm also the founder of a
skincare line for kids calledBetween, um, which we launched
in 2023.
Like I said, because I kind ofnoticed this in my clinic,
people asking all thesequestions about um how to help
their kids deal with what wasgoing on in their skin.
And I just wanted somethingthat really encouraged them to
(41:10):
focus on the right things, whichis just cleansing,
moisturizing, and sunscreen,with something that was actually
like made for them.
Got it.
And then the other thing that Ihate about the whole kid's sun,
the whole kids' skincarecontroversy is like most people
are not talking about the sunprotection part of it.
And again, we've talked aboutthis in multiple contexts, but
like that should be the majorpart of the conversation when it
(41:33):
comes to to kids and howthey're taking care of their
skin.
Michele Folan (41:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And I you don't you don't hearthat at all.
And interestingly, I thinkmaybe because I follow you, I
was in Sephora over the holidayand was appalled at how many
really young girls were in therebuying stuff, and not that they
(42:00):
can't, you know, buy their lipgloss and all that stuff.
I get it.
But you know, what really?
Yeah, and they probably all gotSephora gift cards for
Christmas, and they were inthere, right?
And yeah, and they probablydidn't get sunscreen in their
stocking.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (42:21):
Exactly.
So that's where we're like, Iyou know, I maybe the
conversation will evolve um aswe start to uh, you know, this
is like continues to be a hugesegment of market growth, but
you know, I don't know.
That's not the conversationfocus for even adults, really.
I, you know, we just kind oflike learn that that's something
(42:43):
that's important.
So that's really what my goalis on on social, kind of always
has been.
And then now with like my skincancer situation, like really
trying to like educate people.
But the other thing that'sreally hard is that you know,
when you're young, like you're ateen even, like it's very hard
to think about the future,right?
I don't want to say I wasexcited, but I have a um a good
(43:06):
friend of mine, and I know herdaughter is a teenager, and
she's one of these kids thatlike chases the UV index, right?
And I was like, I I I wasseeing her um to help her with
something, and I was like, Socheck out this giant leg scar
that I now have, and this is whyI try to tell you not to like
go out in the sun all the time.
Michele Folan (43:27):
And she's just like oh gosh, yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (43:31):
You know, it's like so you it's just uh you
gotta keep saying saying it, Ithink.
But you know, we've all beenthere and it's just really hard
to think about the future likethat when you're a kid.
Michele Folan (43:42):
Yeah.
Oh, I get it.
I I did tanning beds, I I didall the stuff and shouldn't
have, but um pay the piper forit now, I'm sure.
Where can just as an aside,where can't people find your
your teen line?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (43:57):
Oh, um, so we sell online.
Um, the website is called MeetBetween and it's BTWN.
Um, so I sell um there and thenthrough my office in
Scottsdale.
Michele Folan (44:09):
Okay, all right, perfect.
I'll put that in the shownotes.
I want to talk about one moretopic, and we touched on it a
little bit with the roguein andthe eyebrows, but hair loss is a
huge issue.
And people close to me,friends, I mean, it it's and I
see it in in myself and otherpeople.
What are the most common causesyou see, especially around
(44:34):
menopause?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (44:35):
Yeah, I mean, hair loss is a very complicated
topic because there are so manyfactors that play a role in it.
You know, being sure you havelike adequate nutrition, hormone
changes, your stress levels,all these things.
And I think it obviously, likearound perimenopause and
menopause, there's hormonefluctuations.
But also those are times whenpeople are like really very busy
(44:58):
dealing with uh, you know,careers and, you know, kids and
you know, it's just it's a lotcontributing to this.
But androgenetic alopecia,which is kind of the patterned
type of hormone-driven hair lossthat's super common, uh,
generally appears around thistime.
But then also telogen afluvium,which is more of like a
(45:19):
stress-induced just shedding,um, which again, for all those
reasons, can happen.
Um, so I see often one or bothof those things.
They can definitely be incombination together.
So we really it is reallyaddressing and thinking about
all these things when you'reapproaching hair loss in a
(45:41):
middle-aged woman.
Michele Folan (45:42):
Let's talk about scalp health.
You know, are there some thingsthat we can do proactively to
really enhance the health of ourscalp, that scalp environment?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (45:53):
I do think there are some things.
And it's a good point because Iam always telling my patients,
like, your hair follicles arelike little princesses.
Like they are, they need aperfect environment to work.
You need to baby them.
So we want the scalp in generalto be as healthy and like
inflammation-free as possible.
(46:13):
So um, you know, being surethat you are managing things
like dandruff if you have it.
Even if you don't havedandruff, using something like a
ketocondizole or a niserol isthe brand that the drugstore
most commonly used to get any ofthat, you know, inflammation
that you may not even reallyappreciate under good control.
I think that's like reallyimportant.
(46:35):
Um, being sure that you'rewashing your hair periodically.
I mean, this is a whole otherconversation.
There's definitely people outthere who don't.
And if they're getting awaywith it, fine.
But for the most part, you wantto be washing a c at least a
couple of times a week to um,you know, exfoliate, um, be sure
that there are not dead skincells clogging up these
(46:57):
follicles and to be sure thatyou're not having like oil
that's sitting there causingsome low-level inflammation that
should then make succles nothappy.
Michele Folan (47:06):
When you say inflammation, how would we know
if we have inflammation in ourscalp?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (47:11):
Yeah, so if you feel sensitive at all,
itchy, flaky, it's hard to seeyour own scalp.
But I mean, like when I'mlooking at it, sometimes you'll
see like someone would seeredness in addition to those
things that they might otherwisenotice too.
Michele Folan (47:26):
Okay.
This is this is good stuff.
Because there's there's a areal trend out there to wash
your hair once a week.
And I I I that doesn't seemlike that'd be a great idea, but
I guess some it works for somepeople, but uh yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (47:44):
I mean, I'm embarrassed.
I don't know, embarrassed isthe right word, but like my son
watches washes his hair once amonth.
He has been like totallyinfluenced by TikTok, whatever,
to do and so I am looking at hisscalp constantly.
I'm like, this cannot be right,but it's fine.
Like he doesn't have anyredness, he doesn't have any
(48:05):
scale.
I mean, I can't seemicroscopically.
There might be like, you know,some clogging of dead skin cells
there, but like nothing that Ican see visually.
So I'm like, I guess this isokay.
Like I'm trying to point out tohim that this can't be right.
But I think if you arestruggling with hair loss, um,
that would be something I wouldlike amp up a little bit first
(48:25):
and see if that uh has aneffect.
Yeah, but it's a crazy trend.
Michele Folan (48:31):
I've been reading about biotin and biotin
supplements and how really onlybiotin is helpful if you have a
biotin deficiency.
Is that correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (48:42):
That is correct.
I hate biotin.
It is a huge scam, in myopinion, in the hair care world.
Yes, if you have a deficiencyof biotin, which is incredibly
rare, a hereditary disorder,your hair is brittle and it
doesn't grow.
And if you replace it, you growhair and great.
And that's where this allstemmed from, this whole like
market.
Um, but if you don't have thatdeficiency, it just doesn't do
(49:05):
anything.
And it has some negativeeffects because if you go to get
blood work done, for example,thyroid um testing, um, which is
a common cause of hair loss, itaffects how that uh lab is
interpreted.
So you do want to be sure thatyou're, if you were on a biotin
supplement, that you're off thatfor at least a week before
(49:26):
testing.
Most people don't know that.
And then the other thing that'seven more risky is if you were
to go to the emergency room,you're having chest pain, the
enzyme testing we do to look forum heart destruction, heart
muscle destruction is um it'sinterfered with with biotin.
So I tell all of my olderpatients, but I mean, there's
(49:47):
no, I don't know what the agecut off.
This is just arbitrary, like,no more biotin.
Like, so really, just nobodyneeds biotin.
Michele Folan (49:54):
Okay.
What about collagen?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (49:56):
Collagen is, I mean, I do think there's
reasonable evidence that ithelps keep your skin hydrated.
So it gives like a plumperlook, but it is not going to
your skin and making you havemore collagen.
I anecdotal, anecdotally hearpatients tell me that they feel
like their hair feels stronger,or their nails, but I don't
(50:16):
think there's any like actualstudies.
There are some studies thatshow, I mean, small studies, but
show that maybe it improveshydration of the skin.
Michele Folan (50:25):
All right.
I'm gonna keep taking mycollagen.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (50:27):
I mean, I take it.
I mean, it doesn't likehydrated skin.
That's great.
But it's not improving yourcollagen.
It is not increasing yourcollagen.
Michele Folan (50:36):
All right.
And then you did mentionniceral.
And so I'm almost tempted justto try niceral.
Just, I mean, it can't hurtanything, right?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (50:46):
Yeah, why not?
Nyserol, if so, it's goodbecause if you do have like a
little bit of a dandruffsituation going on that you
don't realize, then it will getthat under control because that
would negatively influence hairgrowth.
There also is some evidencethat ketoconazole, which is the
active in there, acts as like aan anti-androgen at the level of
(51:09):
the hair follicle.
So it can stimulate some hairgrowth through that mechanism as
well.
So I think why not?
Michele Folan (51:15):
Well, yeah, why not?
Does it block it just blockwhat if I can talk?
Does it block DHT?
Is that yes?
There's okay that's kind of thethought.
This is really good stuff.
I I really like this.
Now, let's just talk realquickly about eyelashes because
I know there's latisse, but myeye doctor does not uh allow me
(51:37):
to use latisse because of theprostaglandins.
And I've got dry eye and blahblah blah.
Have you seen anything besidesLatisse that does anything for
eyelashes?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (51:49):
I know of and in my patients recommend some
growth factor serums that exist,but as far I don't know how
effective they are in anyindividual.
I do think Latisse isbeneficial.
However, like you said, it hasthose risks.
(52:09):
Yeah, I'll I'll be honest, I'mnot like really an expert in the
eyelash growths.
Michele Folan (52:14):
Okay.
No, that's fair.
That's fair.
But again, you know, I I cantint my eyebrows, but the
eyelashes is a whole differentstory.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (52:26):
So I do think that you can use Latisse and
Minoxidil in the eyebrow areasafely.
I've used those personally tohelp and recommend that to
patients as well.
Michele Folan (52:38):
All right.
We just want to keep oureyebrows.
I know.
Because it's especially, youknow, when you wake up in the
morning and you're all onecolor, it's just nice to have
your eyebrows that stand out alittle bit.
So just one of those things.
All right.
I want to ask you a personalquestion.
What is one of your ownpersonal non-negotiables when it
(53:02):
comes to self-care?
What do you do for yourselfevery day?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (53:05):
The non-negotiable that I would say
I do every day is my skincareroutine.
I never go to sleep with, youknow, without washing my face,
doing my routine.
And um, you know, I do try totake a minute when I'm doing it
and, you know, relax andbreathe.
There's other things, ofcourse, that I do, but maybe not
(53:27):
daily.
So I love yoga as a self-care.
Um, I'm a big fan of hot yoga.
Of course, I do pretty muchwalk my dog every day.
I enjoy that um as a part ofself-care.
And then um exercising andtrying to spend time with my
family.
These are all parts ofself-care.
Also, sleep, likenon-negotiable, very important
(53:48):
for me that I have my sleep.
I have crafted my schedulearound being able to adjust to
my own personal sleep clock sothat is not interrupted.
I think that is crucial foroverall health and good skin.
Michele Folan (54:02):
And when you say your own personal clock, does
that mean you wake up byyourself without the alarm clock
in the morning?
Yes.
Yes, yes.
I've been doing that, and it'samazing.
It just starts your day off somuch better.
Exactly.
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
This has been such a greatconversation.
(54:25):
You know, we could talk allafternoon, but we can't, because
I know you got to get back todoing what you do.
But Dr.
Brooke Jeffy, thank you so muchfor being a guest today on
Asking for a Friend.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (54:36):
Thank you so much.
It was great chatting.
Michele Folan (54:39):
Before you go, thank you for being here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
(55:02):
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational purposes only andshould not be considered medical
advice.
Please consult a qualifiedhealthcare professional
regarding your individual healthneeds.
You already know I don'tbelieve in shortcuts.
If you're not lifting, walking,eating enough protein, managing
(00:20):
stress, and prioritizing sleep,peptides are not the answer.
Lifestyle is the foundation.
Always.
But here's the truth midlifebiology can be stubborn.
Hormones shift, recovery slows,body composition changes, and
energy dips even when you'redoing the work.
(00:40):
That's where medicallysupported peptide therapy can be
layered in, not as areplacement for discipline, but
as strategic support.
Physician prescribed,clinically guided, compounded
through an FDA-regulatedpharmacy.
This is about optimization, notescape.
If you've built the foundationand feel like you've hit a wall,
(01:02):
this might be the nextintelligence step.
Lifestyle first, strengthmandatory, support biology when
it needs backup.
If this resonates, send me amessage and let's have a real
discussion.
Or check out the link in theshow notes.
We spend a lot of time andmoney chasing good skin, the
(01:42):
right cleanser, the rightretinol, the right serum that
promises to turn back time.
But what if the realconversation isn't about glow?
What if it's about survival?
Today's guest is someone whohas built a reputation as the
no-nonsense dermatologist bestfriend you wish you had in your
group chat.
She's practical, she'saccessible, she cuts through the
(02:06):
noise and tells you exactlywhat works and what's just
expensive hype.
But this conversation hits alittle differently because she's
not just talking about melanomafrom a clinical standpoint.
She's walking through her ownmelanoma diagnosis right now.
So today we're going deeper.
We're talking about whatmelanoma actually looks like and
(02:29):
how prognosis changes by stage,what every woman should know
about skin cancer risk.
And we're also going to talkabout skincare advice you should
ignore, drugstore gems andsplurge-worthy products, hair
loss in midlife, and whatactually helps, and the
procedures that truly are worthyour money.
If you've ever felt overwhelmedby skincare advice, if you've
(02:51):
ever brushed off a changingmole, if you've wondered what
hype is and what's ruralmedicine, stay right here.
Dr.
Brooke Jeffy, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (03:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Michele Folan (03:04):
It's really nice to see you.
I was telling Brooke that, youknow, I've been following her
for quite some time.
And it's always so fun to likesee people in real life on right
here in the podcast land.
So anyway, it's really great.
So for those meeting you forthe first time, what led you to
(03:25):
dermatology?
Was that always your plan?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (03:28):
Definitely not.
There were actually a lot ofsteps along the way where I kind
of tried to talk myself out ofbeing a physician.
And I definitely had no ideawhen I started medical school
that I would ultimately be indermatology.
I definitely had a lot a stronginterest in medicine growing
up.
Actually, had another chroniccondition that I grew up with.
(03:51):
But you know, medicine is along, hard road.
So I really tried to figure outother careers that would make
me happy.
But ultimately in college, Idid decide to pursue medical
school.
Um, but even after goingthrough medical school, I
actually did two years ofpathology residency training
because I really wasn't surewhat I wanted to do.
And pathology lets you interactwith a bunch of different
(04:14):
conditions and um, you know,different, different um uh
specialties.
So it was through that exposureactually, looking at pieces of
skin under the microscope thatreally was my first introduction
to dermatology.
And through that, I got tospend some time in the clinic
and pivoted.
Michele Folan (04:31):
All right.
So that's really fascinatingbecause I was gonna ask you if
the pathology kind of led youdown that path of dermatology.
And dermatology residencies, Imean, those are hard to get
because there's so few of them,correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (04:46):
Very true.
I was very fortunate to be ableto make that change and even
get in, you know, to aresidency, a derm residency
program.
I did not get in the firsttime.
I did some, um, actually workedin a pathology lab as I waited
to apply again.
But that's kind of a typicalscenario, you know, that just
(05:09):
really demonstrates to theprogram that you're dedicated.
You don't just decide to pursuesomething else.
Michele Folan (05:15):
Right.
And you have built such a greatreputation on Instagram, I have
to tell you, is you are reallythe no-nonsense dermatologist
best friend.
I said that in the intro.
Where does that approach comefrom?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (05:31):
Yeah, so I'm from the South.
I'm from Kentucky, and I feellike I've always just liked to
make people feel at ease.
You know, I feel like kind ofhospitality and feeling
comfortable is important.
I really like talking to peopleand like getting to know their
story.
And with medicine, that's greatbecause there's just a lot of
relevant things that you pick upwhen you have a conversation
(05:53):
with somebody.
And then yeah, I've just, Ikind of have always just been
very no-nonsense, which has leduh itself well to social media
because people are really justlike they want the facts and
then to keep scrolling and moveon.
Um so, so it serves me well, Iguess.
Michele Folan (06:11):
Well, it it does.
And I know there have to besome things that frustrate you
about the current skincareconversation online.
What are those things?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (06:24):
Definitely.
I mean, one thing that I findreally frustrating is just
there's so many voices out therethat often just don't make
sense to me why they're even inthe conversation.
You know, influencers, um, youknow, just kind of trying to
make a name for themselves orlike push products.
There's a marine biologist thatI see all the time talking
(06:47):
about skincare.
And I'm like, like, what are wedoing here?
Um, so you know, there'sdefinitely people who are well
suited to talk about this, andthose should be the people with
the loudest voices.
I also think in uh a large partof the skincare conversation or
just skin health that we missis not talking about protection
enough, but also just therelevance of the rest of our
(07:08):
life choices.
You know, what we decide toeat, how we decide to take care
of our bodies in terms of likeadequate sleep and avoiding
alcohol and things like that.
All of those things play a rolein helping our skin look and
feel its best, and also beingable to defend itself against um
exposures and resist thingslike cancer development.
Michele Folan (07:28):
You know, I had um I interviewed an integrative
health doctor this morning.
And of course, everything goesback to lifestyle in in so many
ways, right?
I mean, there it's it's thewhole body approach, and
dermatology is not limited tojust skin, it's really what
we're putting in our bodies andhow we're treating ourselves.
(07:49):
So this that's really a coolperspective.
I like that a lot.
All right, I want to hit thistopic out of the gate with you
because you are currentlywalking your own melanoma
journey.
And I would love to know howyou found it because you are a
dermatologist.
I didn't know if you do yourown self-exams.
(08:10):
And then walk us through whatyour your mindset was when you
got the diagnosis.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (08:17):
Yeah, so I mean, I will say I've been
saying for many years that um Ifelt like I was probably going
to get a melanoma.
So I grew up going to tanningbeds very often.
I worked in a tanning salon.
When we didn't have customers,I would like prop my legs in
(08:37):
there and just, you know, studyor read or whatever I was doing.
I loved being at the beach.
I thought it was so fun to getlike a burn and be able to peel
off that skin.
I mean, like, then I go tomedical school and I really felt
like, yeah, this is going tohappen to me.
The question is just like when.
So I've been uh pretty well,very diligent watching uh my
(09:01):
skin in light of this.
I mean, I've been strictlyprotecting myself for like close
to 25 years now.
So just watching thingsoccasionally I have had skin
exams.
This is bad.
I have had skin exams by otherpeople, but often it's just me,
you know, keeping an eye onthings.
And so what happened was Inoticed a new spot that popped
up on my left calf.
(09:21):
Um, and that's important forpeople to understand.
Most melanoma actually doescome up as a new spot.
Um, it's much more common thanhaving a mole that you've had
longstanding develop, you know,change into melanoma.
So I noticed this new spot.
I watched it for a few weeks.
It just looked off.
It looked different from mostof my other spots, of which I
(09:44):
have a lot.
And that is something thatdermatologists refer to as like
the ugly duckling sign, um,something that pops up that
looks different than all of yourother spots.
And so I actually biopsied itmyself because I was like, okay,
I need to get this done, buthard to like get in on a you
know somebody's schedule andtake time out of clinic.
Like, I can reach this, let mejust do it.
(10:05):
So um I did that.
So um so yeah, basically Ireceived the report myself.
Actually, the pathologistcalled me because obviously they
they knew me and saw me as thepatient name.
And so uh she called to to giveme the diagnosis and chat with
me um about exactly what she wasseeing.
(10:26):
So I mean, it's scary, but andeven sometimes people, since
I've been sharing online, havebeen kind of saying, well, like
you just seem like verycomfortable with it.
I wouldn't say I'm comfortable,but it's something, like I
said, that I've lived withthinking was probably like I
have all this risk.
So I've kind of sat with it forlike a really long time.
(10:47):
And then obviously I diagnosepeople with this all the time.
And so there's almost like acomfort comfort and like almost
a detachment, sort of, thatallows us to survive, I guess.
Um, but definitely it's scaryand and obviously something I'll
be taking seriously andcontinuing to get like more
(11:08):
routine exams with someone elseto be sure that I am seeing
everything.
But I do feel, you know, itwasn't the earliest, but it was
still very early.
So I feel very confident thatum as long as I keep being
vigilant, um, hopefully thingswill be fine.
Michele Folan (11:26):
So, how has this experience personally changed
now how you will practicemedicine?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (11:36):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a different
appreciation for people I givethis diagnosis to.
I uh just this week, earlierthis week, um, I had a
conversation with another youngwoman, middle-aged woman, who I
um did a biopsy of last week andcame back as a melanoma.
And yeah, that conversation wasthe first conversation I've had
(12:00):
since my diagnosis, and itdefinitely was harder.
Just the kind of empathy andlike go, you know, knowing what
she has ahead of her.
So I think it's gonna make me amore like empathetic, you know,
physician in in that aspect.
But I again, like just to bereal, to be a physician, you
have to, you have to have alittle bit of a wall, right?
(12:22):
Otherwise, if you you can'tsurvive, like you have to
protect yourself a little bit,but I definitely can see that
that it has, and I guess I'mgonna say cracked a little bit.
Michele Folan (12:33):
You know, we have not really talked about
melanoma much.
I mean, I've had plenty ofdermatologists and and plastic
surgeons, that sort of thing, onthe show, but we've not really
dug into this.
And what early signs do wetypically ignore that we
shouldn't as women?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (12:51):
Well, you know, skin cancers are
challenging sometimes becausevery often people will dismiss
them as like even pimples.
Like sometimes um a skin cancercalled a basal cell skin cancer
can often look like an acnetype of bump.
So they'll kind of brush itoff.
So, my, you know, what I tellpeople is like try to keep an
(13:14):
eye on things.
If you notice something thatpops up, it seems like it should
heal, you think it's an acnebump.
If it's not gone in like amonth or so, you need to get it
checked out.
I mean, nobody's missing thesegiant, you know, pictures online
you see of melanoma where it'slike four colors and it's
bleeding.
I mean, you're not gonna missthat.
(13:35):
It's but but things start outmuch more subtle often.
So you just kind of have to bevigilant about that, definitely
keeping an eye on your skin.
Just if you notice anythingoff, I think you've got to
question it.
If you're someone who's had alot of exposure, you know, you
did tanning beds, you um hadblistering sunburns, get checked
(13:55):
periodically.
That's something that's come upa lot with people um since I've
started sharing my stories.
They think, oh, well, like Istopped doing that, you know, I
haven't done that in 20 years orwhatever.
It doesn't matter.
Like your DNA is alreadydamaged from that.
So yeah, it's just reallywatching, asking, asking
questions.
Michele Folan (14:13):
Yeah.
So my story, I had I had astage zero melanoma four years
ago, I think it was.
And so I still go every sixmonths.
I go this month, as a matter offact, to get skin checked.
Now, that was stage zero.
Yours is stage one, correct?
Okay.
What would be the difference inyour approach from stage zero,
(14:35):
stage one to three?
Like how talk us through that.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (14:40):
Yeah, so staging for melanoma, uh, for
melanoma relies on certaincharacteristics that we see
under the microscope or that weassess clinically.
So, under the microscope, we'relooking for things like how
deep is the melanoma?
So, for example, you're in siteto melanoma, what that means is
that those melanocytes that umare the cells that give us
(15:03):
pigment in the skin, those arewhat become malignant to cause
melanoma.
So they're usually in like thevery base layer of the
epidermis, which is like theuppermost layer of the skin.
Underneath that, you have thedermis.
So if those melanocytes thatare um malignant, if they're
staying in the epidermis, thatis melanoma in psi 2 or stage
(15:24):
zero.
Once they break through theepidermis, they're in the
dermis, where they have accessto other things like blood
vessels, that is where you gethigher stages.
So the depth matters.
Um, and even once it's brokenthrough that um into the dermis,
we still take measurementsbeyond that.
And that again influences wherewe stage it.
(15:45):
Um, but it's the depth, it'salso ulceration.
So my pathologist will alwayscomment on whether the tumor has
ulcer under the microscope.
And then the other things weevaluate when we're staging
would be in deeper melanomasdoes someone need to have their
lymph nodes checked withsomething like a sentinel lymph
node biopsy, or do they need tojust, you know, have their lymph
(16:06):
nodes removed because it's ahigh enough stage?
And then distance spread, likehas it spread to other places in
the body?
So as you can probably imagine,stage zero is going to be much
less risk overall to someone.
And essentially, if you have anexcision, it is um essentially
cured.
I think like the the 10-yearsurvival for that is 99% of
(16:28):
people who have it excised willstill be alive at 10 years.
And those numbers, of course,like go down as you go up
through the stages.
So most of the time you'regonna have the lesion excised.
Whether or not other treatment,um, other evaluations are done
depends on the depth.
And then, of course, treatment.
So things like stage fourmelanoma, I mean, you're gonna
(16:51):
be talking about likechemotherapy and immunotherapy,
things like that.
So it's kind of nuanced, evenwithin these stages, there's
different levels, but that'ssort of like the spectrum.
So basically, you go from likealmost 100% being cured if it's
removed to like stage four,which is about 40% survival.
Um, if you do like all theaggressive therapies.
Michele Folan (17:11):
Holy shit.
I mean, I that that's that'sscary.
This is that's scary stuff tome.
I, you know, I I I think aboutpeople who in my own life who I
know who have had it and havenot survived it.
But so we we talk about lots ofsun exposure in our younger
(17:34):
years, tanning beds.
Is there a hereditary componentto this?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (17:39):
There is a hereditary component.
There are definitely some uhgenetic abnormalities that can
be associated with uh melanomaand often with some other
malignancies to kind of like arethat are sometimes associated
with it.
But it doesn't mean that everyperson that has melanoma is
going to have, you know, agenetic abnormality that that we
can test for.
So um I don't honestly, I mean,when I'm talking to my
(18:03):
patients, it's you know, kind ofa discussion.
Do you want to have genetictesting done?
Do you want to know those, youknow, if there's associated risk
of other things like breastcancer, colon cancer, pancreatic
cancer, but like in reality,like you've got to get screened
for all those things too.
So it's just it just mightaffect how aggressive uh and how
frequent you are screening.
Michele Folan (18:20):
You know, I just remembered this.
Um, a friend of mine, childhoodfriend, her father was Arab and
he died of melanoma.
So it doesn't matter if you'repale with freckles or if you're
a very brown skin person,correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (18:36):
That's correct.
It absolutely doesn't.
And the thing is, I think partof that is that people with more
pigmented skin, they don'tthink they have the risk.
And it often is detected muchlater when it is detected.
So, you know, I think that'sthat's just that's just in the
background of it.
Also, people, um, you know,certain um people with um, you
(18:59):
know, different access to careis gonna be influenced.
They don't think they need uhskin exams or it's harder for
them to see a dermatologist.
Um so all these all thesethings definitely play a role,
but nobody's risk is zero, Ithink is like the takeaway.
But certainly there are peoplewho are gonna be a bit more at
risk, like you said, if you'refair skin, if you've had a lot
of blistering sunburns, donetanning beds, that sort of
(19:21):
thing.
Michele Folan (19:21):
All right.
Dr.
Jeffy, we're gonna take a quickbreak, and when we come back, I
want to talk about sunscreenand prevention.
Before we jump back intotoday's conversation, I want to
ask you something.
If you've been listening for awhile, you know this podcast
isn't fluff.
We talk about muscle,metabolism, hormones, brain
health, longevity, the stuffthat actually determines how we
(19:44):
live in our 70s, 80s, andbeyond.
And the show keeps growingbecause you share it.
So if an episode has helped yourethink your health, send it to
a friend, text it to yoursister, share it with your
walking buddy.
That's how this communityexpands.
Smart, curious women bringingother smart, curious women with
(20:04):
them.
Also, I'd love to hear fromyou.
What topics do you want me toexplore?
Who do you want me tochallenge?
What questions are you afraidto ask but secretly one
answered?
You can use the link in theshow notes to join the community
or send me an email with yourideas directly.
This podcast exists becauseyou're asking better questions.
(20:25):
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
Okay, we are back.
Uh, before we went on break, Isaid I wanted to talk about
sunscreen.
I know you are a big fan.
I think there's a lot ofmisinformation out there about
the safety of sunscreens andhelp us out here.
(20:45):
What should we be using?
What should we be looking forin terms of ingredients and how
often should we be wearingsunscreen?
And I think I know the answerto that, but yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (20:56):
So I would say that you want to think about
how you're protecting your skinevery day.
You know, I do recommend thatpeople are wearing sunscreen on
exposed skin like every day,even if it's winter, because I
mean, part of it is like thehabit portion of it.
Part of it is if you're busy, Imean you think you're at home,
(21:18):
but then like something comes upand you need to leave the
house, like then you're notprotected.
So it's good, I think, to justlike at least get an application
on in the morning, get it outof the way.
Of course, there is a lot oftalk and concern about sunscreen
ingredients and chemicalsunscreens versus mineral
sunscreens.
And you know, I think thebottom line is you have to be
(21:40):
comfortable with what you'redoing.
The, you know, if you kind ofwant to avoid most of the
controversy, you rely more onsun protective clothing.
Unfortunately, though, youcan't wear like a mask.
And I'm not saying I agree withthe controversy.
This is like a very long kindof discussion here, but you
know, you can't just Wear a maskon your face all the time, most
(22:01):
likely.
So you have to come up withsomething that at least you can
use on your face, and then maybeyou focus on some protective
clothing, maybe that feels morecomfortable for you on the rest
of the body.
Um, so then you're likeminimizing the use of this
product you're rubbing on.
But yeah, I mean if you want tokind of avoid the controversy,
mineral sunscreens.
The issue is that chemicalsunscreens, we do know that if
(22:23):
you are using them reallyconsistently on large parts of
the body and you're using enoughof them, which are a bunch of
ifs because most people do notuse them as intended exactly.
But if you were, studies showyou're doing that for multiple
days in a row, it can bemeasured.
The chemical sunscreens can bemeasured in your blood.
We don't know what that means,if anything, but that idea
(22:44):
bothers people.
Mineral sunscreens are not.
So you can just avoid the wholething.
And mineral sunscreens aretitanium and zinc.
Everything else is a chemicalsunscreen.
So just use something that hasmineral, uh, you know, a mineral
uh filter and feel good aboutit.
Try to protect yourself, youknow, with some protective
clothing.
I mean, it's really hard tokeep sunscreen on all of our,
(23:05):
you know, all of our body.
It's messy.
You got to reapply itfrequently if you really want
that protection.
But I am also someone that likeI love to be outside.
And um, you know, I think we doneed sunlight in our lives,
right?
I'm not someone that's sayinglike you should be a hermit and
stay in to avoid the sun, butyou have to do it smart and you
(23:26):
have to be protecting yourself,using the shade, that sort of
thing.
But light is important for ourcircadian rhythms.
We're learning more about it inthe longevity space.
So you just have to thinkthrough the strategy.
This is obviously something I'msuper passionate about.
I love talking about sunprotection strategies for
people.
Michele Folan (23:43):
Well, and I so I I wear sunscreen on my face
every day.
Now, is that for cancerprevention?
Probably not.
It's more for vanity.
But if you That works, yeah.
If you just think of it fromlook, I I won't maybe my knees
won't look saggy when I'm 82 anduh my face will look somewhat
(24:06):
decent.
You know, my mom, I will saythis my mom looked always looked
younger than what she wasbecause she wore sunscreen every
single day on her face.
She also used Vaseline on herface every day, too, which it's
a whole nother story.
But you know, that'sencouraging to me.
And because my dad was aredhead with freckles, you know,
(24:28):
we we all are freckled and wealways wore sunscreen even as
kids.
Now that didn't mean we didn'thave burns, because I did have
plenty of burns prior to that,but you know, we keep our
fingers crossed too.
But I think just from thevanity perspective, if we can
just get people thinking inthose terms, but you're saying
(24:49):
though, if we are out taking ourdaily walk, whatever, we should
be at least covering up, if notwearing sunscreen.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (24:58):
Yes.
I mean, I think the covering upis what you rely on because
it's more fully, it's more fullprotection.
You don't have to reapply yourhat.
It's just it's on your face.
I mean, you know, it's on yourhead.
Right.
But, you know, like I said,just there are areas you can't
cover.
So then you, you know, you doneed to have a sunscreen
strategy as as part of it.
But I love what you say aboutthe vanity.
Yes, that's usually how Iappeal try to appeal to people,
(25:19):
is because like you're comingin, most people they're like
wanting, they're not happy withtheir brown spots.
I'm like, okay, well, we're notgonna get anywhere unless
you're being really strict aboutthe sun protection.
So um definitely the vanity isa useful way to convince people
too.
Michele Folan (25:35):
Yeah, well, that would be me.
So, all right, there is so muchadvice out there.
Instagram, TikTok, lots of redflags, as we were talking about.
There are a lot of people thatreally shouldn't be giving
advice or are out there givingadvice.
What in your mind are the truenon-negotiables for an effective
(25:59):
routine?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (26:00):
So, of course, sun protection, number one.
You're not getting anywherewithout that.
Then I would say a retinoid.
So, whether it be anover-the-counter product, a
prescription product, um, butthese uh a retinoid will help to
maintain your collagen.
It will also help with pigmentchanges.
And then the othernon-negotiable, I think, is an
(26:21):
antioxidant type of treatment.
So very commonly, this will belike a vitamin C that you're
using with your sunscreen in themorning.
These I am referring to becauseI talk a lot about kids'
skincare.
I'm talking about adults here,but these are non-negotiably
that are evidence-based.
Um, I also would add peptides.
Um, those are uh like thefourth thing I would add in a
(26:42):
complete kind of regimen for anadult um trying to maintain
healthy skin.
Michele Folan (26:47):
Okay.
So let's back up to theretinoid.
So there's tretinoin.
Are there any over-the-counterdupes that are worth their
money?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (27:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, you don't have to havea prescription tretinoin to get
benefit to your skin, you know,from from a retinoid.
So over-the-counter retinolsare very, they can be as
effective.
Studies show as long as you'reusing um, I think it's yeah,
it's the O25, sorry, the 0.25%retinol, it's equivalent to the
lowest strength tretinoin interms of benefit over 12 weeks.
(27:23):
So um, yeah, you don't have tohave a prescription.
Um, and the issue with theprescriptions a lot of times is
that sometimes they will be alittle more irritating to the
skin.
So an over-the-counter retinoluh might actually be a little
bit more tolerable for a lot ofpeople.
So yeah, there's also adappline, which is another
over-the-counter retinoid, um,more studied for acne, but it
(27:46):
used to be a prescription, andnow you can get that
over-the-counter.
But people do use it foranti-aging.
It probably does, you know,have an equivalent benefit, but
more studied for acne.
So there's definitelyover-the-counter options.
Michele Folan (27:58):
Was that different?
Yeah, that was different.
Okay.
And then in terms of, do you ita favorite brand of
over-the-counter that you thinkis is effective?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (28:07):
It of a retinol?
You know, I point people tothat rock brand.
Um, Serave has a retinol now.
I mean, there's obviously muchmore expensive brands that have
retinols too, but I think thethe bottom line is to be sure
it's like a reputable company.
But I think, yeah, there's alot of options out there.
But those are the usual,usually the two that I point out
(28:28):
to people.
Michele Folan (28:29):
All right.
And then I know La Roche Posayis a nice brand.
I always feel fancy when I'mbuying a little La Roche Posey.
But there's a lot of Koreanskincare products out there,
K-Beauty.
Is there really a differencebetween those products and what
we typically have here?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (28:50):
So um I'm very excited about this topic
because my my husband isactually in Korea right now.
And uh he was just walking medown the aisles of beauty at
Costco yesterday via, you know,video, and amazing to me, like
just how many products.
But yes, I do so the philosophyto skincare is just is
(29:14):
different.
It's more focused on hydrationand you know, simplicity, kind
of in terms of the ingredients,more natural ingredients, things
like snail mucin and scintella.
I mean, so there's just it'sjust a different focus, where in
the US it's more like activesto try to like correct and treat
things.
So they're just like morebarrier focused.
(29:36):
I do find it very uh fun.
And I do think that um they dodifferent things.
There's different deliverysystems, you know, they focus a
lot on masks and essences.
So I think they're fun to thinksome of those products are very
fun to incorporate.
Um, and I do think we're seeinga shift in US beauty to more
(29:58):
focus on skin barrier health andhydration.
So um it's it's interesting howI think that's influenced us
over the past few years.
Michele Folan (30:06):
So I I have used some K Beauty, and I think
there's there is definitely likea glassy kind of look that you
get.
And I I noticed I was in Europethis summer, and there a lot of
the Korean women were there,and they're all covered up, like
(30:26):
arms, hats, face masks, thewhole deal.
But when you did get to see onethat wasn't covered, their
their skin looks incredible.
I mean, obviously they don'tget the sun damage.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (30:39):
Yeah, I think that's the issue.
It's a combination of the factthat like they're staying super
covered, right?
So that keeps their skinbarrier working really well.
They don't get they they're nothaving as much pigment
problems, and then they'recoupling that with these like
really hydration, likeskin-drenching type of
ingredients, and it does helpyou get you know that glow.
(31:00):
I my favorite type of K beautyproduct, like I love snail mucin
um as an ingredient.
Um, so uh yeah, it just impartsthat glow onto your skin.
Michele Folan (31:13):
I've noticed there, even in the US, we're
starting to see some Koreanproducts at Costco.
So the I bought some eyelashserum, and I don't know if it's
working, but well Jerry's out.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (31:28):
I haven't delved much into the eyelash
serum, so that's gonna beinteresting.
I should do some researchthere.
I think you just have to be alittle careful with like, are is
it actually the same product?
I definitely with like thesunscreens, you know, that's
it's not the same product thatyou're getting because in the
US, the sunscreen filters thatare available there, we you
know, are not approved by theFDA.
(31:50):
And then I just think yeah, youit might be possible that
they're tweaked a little bit tobe on the US market.
Michele Folan (31:56):
Yeah, all right.
Well, and I guess I guess Iguess we see that with
everything, right?
That I mean, even some of thereally nice European brands,
like even La Roche-Pose,probably wouldn't be the same as
what you would get elsewhere.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (32:12):
Exactly.
Michele Folan (32:13):
Okay.
I want to know what's thecorrect way to remove our makeup
at night.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (32:19):
So I am a big fan of a double cleanse.
I know some dermatologistsdon't think this matters, but
especially, I mean, honestly, Idon't even want to say
especially for women.
I think for anyone who'swearing sunscreen, but of
course, also if you're wearingmakeup, like most cleansers,
even though they say removemakeup and sunscreen, like I
(32:42):
just don't think they do.
And I've kind of tested thismyself where I and I pretty much
just wear tinted sunscreen, butI've used some of these
cleansers, and then I will takelike my cellar water or
something and and cleanse, youknow, use it afterwards, and
there will still be things onthat pad.
So I do think it's important touse a makeup remover first.
(33:02):
I like my cellar water, or ifyou have drier skin, um, a
cleansing balm, even Vaselineyou can use, and then do your
cleanse after that to be sureyou get everything off before
bed.
And that is anothernon-negotiable.
You gotta get everything thatyou've put on during the day,
dirt, oil, pollution that'saccumulated on the skin.
You gotta get it off beforebed.
Michele Folan (33:24):
Oh, amen.
Woo! Yeah, I'm I'm big on thenightly cleanse.
It I don't care how tired I am,it's it's coming off.
Gotta gotta get it off.
Okay.
Good.
All right.
I I get one point.
Yay.
I know you have a whole list ofunsexy products, and we're
talking your your standbyover-the-counter stuff.
(33:47):
You said Vaseline, which I knowis one of them.
Which are your favorites thatdeliver consistent results for
you?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (33:53):
I mean, my top unsexy product is Vaseline.
I mean, like, you can use itfor everything.
Take your makeup off, fix your,you know, cracked heels, slug
if you've overdone, you know,your retinoid at bedtime or it's
winter, you've got eczema.
I mean, like the proudestmoment at moments I have as a
(34:14):
mom.
I have a 16-year-old son now,but when he has anything going
on with the skin, he's like,should I just put Vaseline on
it?
Yes, yes, you should.
That makes me feel good.
Minoxidil is another just likesuper cheap and easy uh product
that helps with, you know, hairgrowth, eyebrows, you're losing.
Um, so I think that's anotherum product that I always have.
(34:37):
And then Neutrogena is kind ofan unsexy brand that I love a
lot of their products,particularly like the Hydro
Boost line, you know, lightmoisturizers, light sunscreens,
really great products,especially for acne-prone skin
or people who just like hateusing products or men in
particular.
And I know you mentioned likingLa Roche Posey.
(34:58):
I also love La Roche Posey.
Um, I don't know if it's anunsexy product or if it's a sexy
product, but I love theirfacial mist.
Um, you know, it's really greatto hydrate uh to put
moisturizer on moist skin.
So doing a little mist of that,amazing.
Michele Folan (35:15):
You know, I have this, it's a two-phase like oil
spray.
And I use it in the afternoonwhen I don't want to reapply my
makeup.
My face feels dry and in thewintertime, and I'll just spritz
some of that on my face andjust kind of pat it in, then I
don't have to like do the redothe makeup.
So I I like, yeah, that that'ssomething that I do.
(35:38):
You mentioned monoxidel foreyebrows.
Which strength works foreyebrows?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (35:44):
Just don't waste your money on anything
other than the five percentmonoxidil, like just two percent
is trash.
They market that sometimes forwomen.
Um, but yeah, everyone shouldjust be using the five percent.
It doesn't matter if it saysit's for men, five percent for
everything.
Michele Folan (35:58):
If I'm gonna splurge on something, what is
your your favorite splurge?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (36:05):
Hmm.
So I guess I'm just gonnaanswer this by saying like the
most expensive product that Ihave and like to keep is this
brand called Retrove.
They have um this eyeconcentrate that is primarily
squaline.
(36:26):
It's kind of like oily a littlebit, great for like more mature
skin around the eye.
It kind of just gives this likedewy look, but it also has um
some other moisturizers in itand peptides and vitamin C.
I always get compliments whenI'm wearing that.
It just, I don't know, it kindof reflects the light.
I don't know.
I love it.
The founder of that is a womanfrom the Keel's family.
(36:47):
Um, so anyway, that's probablythe most, that's the most
important most expensive productI have in my bathroom.
Michele Folan (36:53):
All right, that one's going in the show notes,
but I have a question.
You talk about eye cream.
Is there really anything outthere that can address puffy
eyes?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (37:03):
I mean, caffeine in an eye cream, maybe
um, I mean, may have some,should have some benefit, but I
mean, like, I struggle withpuffy eyes.
I just am not gonna lie topeople.
Like, I just don't think itdoes much.
Um, you could use like all theingredients I just, you know,
rattled off with that oil that Ilike.
(37:25):
You know, I personally like it.
It's it looks good on my face,but all those same ingredients
are in a lot of other facialserums or your moisturizer.
You don't really have to have aseparate eye cream.
You can just take all thesethings up to your lash line and
not buy another product.
But caffeine, you know, coldthings, like, you know, gentle
(37:48):
um, you know, these like thingsyou can put in the refrigerator
to hold over your eye, these eyepatches that are just cooling,
you know, I mean, that helpsconstrict a little bit.
But I wish, I wish there was aneasy answer.
Michele Folan (38:03):
A woman I used to work with used frozen spoons.
Yeah, frozen spoons.
She can put those in the in thefridge and and that that worked
for her.
So I was like, eh, whatever,whatever, whatever works.
What about guasha?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (38:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think that we can have some
puffiness in our face, that it'syou know, nice to kind of like
stimulate some lymphaticmovement.
I I mean, I think try it.
If it works for you, great.
I just think it's not, youknow, it's not a guarantee for
anybody.
Michele Folan (38:31):
Okay.
It'll feel like self-care.
It makes you feel better.
Sure, yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (38:34):
Take a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
Love that part of it.
Michele Folan (38:37):
I want to ask you about this, and and plenty of
my listeners probably have teengrandchildren.
You went viral talking aboutteens and skincare.
And I think you were justcommenting on a video, and it
went viral.
And so can you talk about thata little bit?
What are, and then what are ouryoung girls doing wrong in
(39:01):
terms of their skincare thesedays?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (39:03):
Yeah, so it's funny.
Like, I I think the virality ofthat video had a little bit to
do with like the child that Iwas commenting on, which is just
really funny.
I mean, I think people thinkthat like, oh, I'm on social
media, I know all these people,I stay on top of all this stuff.
I had no idea who this thatthis was like a Kardashian
child.
Um, you know, my social teamsent me this video and said,
(39:25):
hey, this might be cool tocomment on.
And so I did.
And, you know, I had no idea.
Like, I was not feeling thebest about how, you know, I
hadn't done my hair, whatever.
You know, I was just likethrowing this out there, getting
it done.
So just very funny because Ihad no idea that really that's,
you know, that this was thischild.
But anyway.
So kids are just, you know,into skincare.
(39:46):
I mean, I we're just seeing ityounger and younger.
I mean, it it kind of goesalong with social media being,
you know, so pervasive now.
Um, kids seeing their friends,they're seeing influencers, uh,
they're seeing this youngKardashian child on there
talking about their routine.
So, you know, they're justtrying to fit in and want to
want to use these products.
(40:07):
And, you know, they're littleshoppers and consumers too.
I mean, just like adults.
It's like shiny productsyndrome.
You see what you want, youknow, you see these things, you
want to use them.
So unfortunately, with kids,they're using products often
that have actives designed foradults.
So they're not formulated forthe needs of their skin, and
(40:28):
they're too harsh for it becausekids just have like much more
sensitive skin, especially likethe tweens.
You know, they're not evenmaking much oil, which helps
them tolerate some of thesethings.
So um, I think it's reallyimportant to try to educate them
on what is right and to kind ofhelp parents understand that.
And I kind of saw this wholething coming.
(40:49):
Um, I don't know if you um knowthat I'm also the founder of a
skincare line for kids calledBetween, um, which we launched
in 2023.
Like I said, because I kind ofnoticed this in my clinic,
people asking all thesequestions about um how to help
their kids deal with what wasgoing on in their skin.
And I just wanted somethingthat really encouraged them to
(41:10):
focus on the right things, whichis just cleansing,
moisturizing, and sunscreen,with something that was actually
like made for them.
Got it.
And then the other thing that Ihate about the whole kid's sun,
the whole kids' skincarecontroversy is like most people
are not talking about the sunprotection part of it.
And again, we've talked aboutthis in multiple contexts, but
like that should be the majorpart of the conversation when it
(41:33):
comes to to kids and howthey're taking care of their
skin.
Michele Folan (41:36):
Yeah, yeah.
And I you don't you don't hearthat at all.
And interestingly, I thinkmaybe because I follow you, I
was in Sephora over the holidayand was appalled at how many
really young girls were in therebuying stuff, and not that they
(42:00):
can't, you know, buy their lipgloss and all that stuff.
I get it.
But you know, what really?
Yeah, and they probably all gotSephora gift cards for
Christmas, and they were inthere, right?
And yeah, and they probablydidn't get sunscreen in their
stocking.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (42:21):
Exactly.
So that's where we're like, Iyou know, I maybe the
conversation will evolve um aswe start to uh, you know, this
is like continues to be a hugesegment of market growth, but
you know, I don't know.
That's not the conversationfocus for even adults, really.
I, you know, we just kind oflike learn that that's something
(42:43):
that's important.
So that's really what my goalis on on social, kind of always
has been.
And then now with like my skincancer situation, like really
trying to like educate people.
But the other thing that'sreally hard is that you know,
when you're young, like you're ateen even, like it's very hard
to think about the future,right?
I don't want to say I wasexcited, but I have a um a good
(43:06):
friend of mine, and I know herdaughter is a teenager, and
she's one of these kids thatlike chases the UV index, right?
And I was like, I I I wasseeing her um to help her with
something, and I was like, Socheck out this giant leg scar
that I now have, and this is whyI try to tell you not to like
go out in the sun all the time.
Michele Folan (43:27):
And she's just like oh gosh, yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (43:31):
You know, it's like so you it's just uh you
gotta keep saying saying it, Ithink.
But you know, we've all beenthere and it's just really hard
to think about the future likethat when you're a kid.
Michele Folan (43:42):
Yeah.
Oh, I get it.
I I did tanning beds, I I didall the stuff and shouldn't
have, but um pay the piper forit now, I'm sure.
Where can just as an aside,where can't people find your
your teen line?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (43:57):
Oh, um, so we sell online.
Um, the website is called MeetBetween and it's BTWN.
Um, so I sell um there and thenthrough my office in
Scottsdale.
Michele Folan (44:09):
Okay, all right, perfect.
I'll put that in the shownotes.
I want to talk about one moretopic, and we touched on it a
little bit with the roguein andthe eyebrows, but hair loss is a
huge issue.
And people close to me,friends, I mean, it it's and I
see it in in myself and otherpeople.
What are the most common causesyou see, especially around
(44:34):
menopause?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (44:35):
Yeah, I mean, hair loss is a very complicated
topic because there are so manyfactors that play a role in it.
You know, being sure you havelike adequate nutrition, hormone
changes, your stress levels,all these things.
And I think it obviously, likearound perimenopause and
menopause, there's hormonefluctuations.
But also those are times whenpeople are like really very busy
(44:58):
dealing with uh, you know,careers and, you know, kids and
you know, it's just it's a lotcontributing to this.
But androgenetic alopecia,which is kind of the patterned
type of hormone-driven hair lossthat's super common, uh,
generally appears around thistime.
But then also telogen afluvium,which is more of like a
(45:19):
stress-induced just shedding,um, which again, for all those
reasons, can happen.
Um, so I see often one or bothof those things.
They can definitely be incombination together.
So we really it is reallyaddressing and thinking about
all these things when you'reapproaching hair loss in a
(45:41):
middle-aged woman.
Michele Folan (45:42):
Let's talk about scalp health.
You know, are there some thingsthat we can do proactively to
really enhance the health of ourscalp, that scalp environment?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (45:53):
I do think there are some things.
And it's a good point because Iam always telling my patients,
like, your hair follicles arelike little princesses.
Like they are, they need aperfect environment to work.
You need to baby them.
So we want the scalp in generalto be as healthy and like
inflammation-free as possible.
(46:13):
So um, you know, being surethat you are managing things
like dandruff if you have it.
Even if you don't havedandruff, using something like a
ketocondizole or a niserol isthe brand that the drugstore
most commonly used to get any ofthat, you know, inflammation
that you may not even reallyappreciate under good control.
I think that's like reallyimportant.
(46:35):
Um, being sure that you'rewashing your hair periodically.
I mean, this is a whole otherconversation.
There's definitely people outthere who don't.
And if they're getting awaywith it, fine.
But for the most part, you wantto be washing a c at least a
couple of times a week to um,you know, exfoliate, um, be sure
that there are not dead skincells clogging up these
(46:57):
follicles and to be sure thatyou're not having like oil
that's sitting there causingsome low-level inflammation that
should then make succles nothappy.
Michele Folan (47:06):
When you say inflammation, how would we know
if we have inflammation in ourscalp?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (47:11):
Yeah, so if you feel sensitive at all,
itchy, flaky, it's hard to seeyour own scalp.
But I mean, like when I'mlooking at it, sometimes you'll
see like someone would seeredness in addition to those
things that they might otherwisenotice too.
Michele Folan (47:26):
Okay.
This is this is good stuff.
Because there's there's a areal trend out there to wash
your hair once a week.
And I I I that doesn't seemlike that'd be a great idea, but
I guess some it works for somepeople, but uh yeah.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (47:44):
I mean, I'm embarrassed.
I don't know, embarrassed isthe right word, but like my son
watches washes his hair once amonth.
He has been like totallyinfluenced by TikTok, whatever,
to do and so I am looking at hisscalp constantly.
I'm like, this cannot be right,but it's fine.
Like he doesn't have anyredness, he doesn't have any
(48:05):
scale.
I mean, I can't seemicroscopically.
There might be like, you know,some clogging of dead skin cells
there, but like nothing that Ican see visually.
So I'm like, I guess this isokay.
Like I'm trying to point out tohim that this can't be right.
But I think if you arestruggling with hair loss, um,
that would be something I wouldlike amp up a little bit first
(48:25):
and see if that uh has aneffect.
Yeah, but it's a crazy trend.
Michele Folan (48:31):
I've been reading about biotin and biotin
supplements and how really onlybiotin is helpful if you have a
biotin deficiency.
Is that correct?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (48:42):
That is correct.
I hate biotin.
It is a huge scam, in myopinion, in the hair care world.
Yes, if you have a deficiencyof biotin, which is incredibly
rare, a hereditary disorder,your hair is brittle and it
doesn't grow.
And if you replace it, you growhair and great.
And that's where this allstemmed from, this whole like
market.
Um, but if you don't have thatdeficiency, it just doesn't do
(49:05):
anything.
And it has some negativeeffects because if you go to get
blood work done, for example,thyroid um testing, um, which is
a common cause of hair loss, itaffects how that uh lab is
interpreted.
So you do want to be sure thatyou're, if you were on a biotin
supplement, that you're off thatfor at least a week before
(49:26):
testing.
Most people don't know that.
And then the other thing that'seven more risky is if you were
to go to the emergency room,you're having chest pain, the
enzyme testing we do to look forum heart destruction, heart
muscle destruction is um it'sinterfered with with biotin.
So I tell all of my olderpatients, but I mean, there's
(49:47):
no, I don't know what the agecut off.
This is just arbitrary, like,no more biotin.
Like, so really, just nobodyneeds biotin.
Michele Folan (49:54):
Okay.
What about collagen?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (49:56):
Collagen is, I mean, I do think there's
reasonable evidence that ithelps keep your skin hydrated.
So it gives like a plumperlook, but it is not going to
your skin and making you havemore collagen.
I anecdotal, anecdotally hearpatients tell me that they feel
like their hair feels stronger,or their nails, but I don't
(50:16):
think there's any like actualstudies.
There are some studies thatshow, I mean, small studies, but
show that maybe it improveshydration of the skin.
Michele Folan (50:25):
All right.
I'm gonna keep taking mycollagen.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (50:27):
I mean, I take it.
I mean, it doesn't likehydrated skin.
That's great.
But it's not improving yourcollagen.
It is not increasing yourcollagen.
Michele Folan (50:36):
All right.
And then you did mentionniceral.
And so I'm almost tempted justto try niceral.
Just, I mean, it can't hurtanything, right?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (50:46):
Yeah, why not?
Nyserol, if so, it's goodbecause if you do have like a
little bit of a dandruffsituation going on that you
don't realize, then it will getthat under control because that
would negatively influence hairgrowth.
There also is some evidencethat ketoconazole, which is the
active in there, acts as like aan anti-androgen at the level of
(51:09):
the hair follicle.
So it can stimulate some hairgrowth through that mechanism as
well.
So I think why not?
Michele Folan (51:15):
Well, yeah, why not?
Does it block it just blockwhat if I can talk?
Does it block DHT?
Is that yes?
There's okay that's kind of thethought.
This is really good stuff.
I I really like this.
Now, let's just talk realquickly about eyelashes because
I know there's latisse, but myeye doctor does not uh allow me
(51:37):
to use latisse because of theprostaglandins.
And I've got dry eye and blahblah blah.
Have you seen anything besidesLatisse that does anything for
eyelashes?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (51:49):
I know of and in my patients recommend some
growth factor serums that exist,but as far I don't know how
effective they are in anyindividual.
I do think Latisse isbeneficial.
However, like you said, it hasthose risks.
(52:09):
Yeah, I'll I'll be honest, I'mnot like really an expert in the
eyelash growths.
Michele Folan (52:14):
Okay.
No, that's fair.
That's fair.
But again, you know, I I cantint my eyebrows, but the
eyelashes is a whole differentstory.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (52:26):
So I do think that you can use Latisse and
Minoxidil in the eyebrow areasafely.
I've used those personally tohelp and recommend that to
patients as well.
Michele Folan (52:38):
All right.
We just want to keep oureyebrows.
I know.
Because it's especially, youknow, when you wake up in the
morning and you're all onecolor, it's just nice to have
your eyebrows that stand out alittle bit.
So just one of those things.
All right.
I want to ask you a personalquestion.
What is one of your ownpersonal non-negotiables when it
(53:02):
comes to self-care?
What do you do for yourselfevery day?
Brooke Jeffy, MD (53:05):
The non-negotiable that I would say
I do every day is my skincareroutine.
I never go to sleep with, youknow, without washing my face,
doing my routine.
And um, you know, I do try totake a minute when I'm doing it
and, you know, relax andbreathe.
There's other things, ofcourse, that I do, but maybe not
(53:27):
daily.
So I love yoga as a self-care.
Um, I'm a big fan of hot yoga.
Of course, I do pretty muchwalk my dog every day.
I enjoy that um as a part ofself-care.
And then um exercising andtrying to spend time with my
family.
These are all parts ofself-care.
Also, sleep, likenon-negotiable, very important
(53:48):
for me that I have my sleep.
I have crafted my schedulearound being able to adjust to
my own personal sleep clock sothat is not interrupted.
I think that is crucial foroverall health and good skin.
Michele Folan (54:02):
And when you say your own personal clock, does
that mean you wake up byyourself without the alarm clock
in the morning?
Yes.
Yes, yes.
I've been doing that, and it'samazing.
It just starts your day off somuch better.
Exactly.
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
This has been such a greatconversation.
(54:25):
You know, we could talk allafternoon, but we can't, because
I know you got to get back todoing what you do.
But Dr.
Brooke Jeffy, thank you so muchfor being a guest today on
Asking for a Friend.
Brooke Jeffy, MD (54:36):
Thank you so much.
It was great chatting.
Michele Folan (54:39):
Before you go, thank you for being here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
(55:02):
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
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