Ep.198 Narcissism Isn’t Always Obvious: How to Recognize It and Take Your Life Back

Episode Transcript
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Michele Folan (00:00):
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We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Before you assume this episodeisn't for you, stick with me.
Because narcissisticrelationships don't always look

(01:56):
the way you think they do.
They're not always loud,dramatic, or obvious.
Sometimes they're subtle,confusing, quietly exhausting.
They can show up in marriages,families, friendships, even at
work.
And the people in them, they'renot weak.
They're not naive.
They're often strong, capable,high functioning, and slowly

(02:20):
losing themselves.
Maybe you found yourselfconstantly second guessing your
reality, walking on eggshells,explaining away behavior that
doesn't quite sit right.
Or maybe this isn't your story,but you're thinking of someone
right now who needs to hearthis.
Today we're breaking down whatnarcissistic relationships
actually look like, why they'reso hard to recognize when you're

(02:43):
in them, and what it takes toreclaim your identity and your
life.
So take a breath, take stock,and really listen.
Because there is another sideto this, and it's stronger,
clearer, and more free than youmight think.
Melissa Reimer, welcome toAsking for a Friend.

Melissa Rymer (03:00):
Oh, thank you so much, Michele.
I am so happy to be here.
And man, you nailed it.

You did.
Well, you know, I shared withyou that I know people that are
in narcissistic relationships.
And I am interested in thistopic because I don't think
people always recognize thesigns.
And this will help clear a lotof that up.
And you work with people,Melissa, coming out of

(03:29):
narcissistic relationships.
What does that actually looklike in real life?

Well, having gone through it and survived it,
many people, like you just said,don't even realize that's what
they're going through.
They don't realize they'redealing with a narcissist
because the relationship startsout beautiful.
It starts out like a fairytale.
And it's all by design becausea narcissist does not randomly

(03:57):
choose a victim.
They choose someone that canbring something into their life.
And I don't mean just a greatpartnership.
I mean it could be money, itcould be image, it could be uh
influence, it could be careeradvancement.
It has to do with somethingthis person has that the

(04:17):
narcissist wants and they willgain from that.
So when you're just starting,and it could be mostly
relationship-driven, but itcould be a boss, it could be an
in-law, it could be somebodythat one of your loved ones
married.
We deal with all of this, butthe person starts out as a very,
very perfect individual.

(04:38):
They're they're charismatic,they're kind, they're generous,
they pay attention to the victimin the beginning.
That's when they listen.
That's when you're sointeresting to them.
That's when you have all ofthese things in common.
Everything you're like, wow, Imust have met my soulmate.
That is exactly what I felt.

(04:59):
That's what I felt.
And they will keep that what Icall charade up because and it's
the mask that they wear.
It's the mask they wear forpublic, it's the mask they wear
when they are courting you, nomatter what that relationship
is, because they want your guarddown.
They want you to trust them,they want you to be interested

(05:20):
in what they're saying, and theywant you to feel they're
interested in what you say andwhat you do.
And all of a sudden, you feelfree.
You feel like, wow, this persongets me.
They understand.
That is why people miss the redflags.
Because why would someonepurposely do this to someone

(05:41):
else?
That's the sad part of it,because they are purposely doing
it to someone else.
And it is to tear down umeverything about yourself that
you truly thought was strong andenergetic, and that you really
had it together.
And the more you get involvedwith this person, and it

(06:02):
generally leads to, you know,dating, engagement, marriage,
potentially having a child.
And that's when things startchanging.
That's when things start,things are just not quite right.
They're, you know, there's somepassive aggressive comments,
they're, you know, kind oftearing you down.

(06:23):
All of this makes you doubtyour confidence.
Or maybe you think, um, I'mimagining it, or maybe I'll try
harder.
Maybe I, you know, I want backwhat we had.
I know with my own experience,things were just so amazing
during that, you know, datingand engagement and the romance

(06:44):
and all of this stuff.
And then six months into themarriage, all of a sudden he's
just not happy.
He's upset, he's critical.
So I started trying harder.
I was working harder to, youknow, make sure he was okay,
what's going on?
He must, you know, he's understress.
So the victim, unfortunately, Ihate to say that, but that's

(07:06):
that's what we become because westart absorbing this other
person's change of behavior, thenegative change of behavior.
We start absorbing that and westart pulling more of ourself
into them.
So it so slowly starts drainingour tank.
I call them life vampiresbecause they start sucking life

(07:28):
out of you to make them happy.
And because you love them,because you care about them,
because you're trying to make itwork, you're trying to figure
it out, you start giving more ofyourself.
And that's where we startlosing who we are and
sacrificing who we are.
And slowly you start giving upthings that were very, very

(07:53):
important to you, like workingout, like, you know, if you had
extra curricula, like I like topaint, I love to paint.
It was like he would complainabout the time I spent painting,
that I seemed distracted, thatyou know, he really needed to
talk to me.
You know, could I just notspend that hour?
Could I just not spend thathalf hour?

(08:14):
Could I just not spend thatfive minutes?
So slowly I'm like, you know,I'm just gonna give that up for
now.
So that's something that wasimportant to me that I
sacrificed.

Yeah, and you start losing yourself.
And that's yes, that's whathappens.
And I think this needs to bepointed out, even though this
podcast is focused on women'shealth and wellness.
Is there something that affectsboth men and women equally?
I mean, is this something thatyou see often in both, or are

(08:46):
there differences?

Well, mostly um it mostly affects women because
primarily men are narcissists.
I mean, and not just becausesomeone has narcissistic traits.
I mean, there can be peoplethat are egomaniacs, gregarious,
loud, uh, self-centered.
It doesn't necessarily makethem a narcissist.
Those are very annoying traits,and and it takes a very strong

(09:12):
person to deal with them.
But mostly men are narcissists.
It is by statistics.
There are women that arenarcissists, narcissists.
Most of the time they'recovert, which is it equally as
dangerous, but it's they're thevictim.
They're drama, they're um,they're always complaining,
they're always looking for thatextra attention.

(09:33):
So you feel responsible fortheir happiness.
So that's kind of thedifference.
And I do have men clients, butmostly women, it's like 95%
women.
But the the tear down of yourconfidence and your um
resiliency is similar becauseeven though it's a man, you

(09:54):
know, uh men, they they likewords of affirmation, you know,
they like physical touch, theythey're just they're wired, you
know, they're wired differently.
So when you start tearing downtheir confidence, then being a
man, they start feeling badabout themselves, they start
feeling unappreciated, it reallystarts affecting them as being

(10:14):
the leader of the household.
Women who are the pillars,they're the strong, they're the,
you know, they take care of thekids, they keep all the pieces
together.
When they're juggling all thesethings, and you start tearing
that down, it's like they'rejuggling more and more and more
and more, and and they becomesmaller and smaller and smaller

(10:35):
because everything around thembecomes more important, more
critical.
And that's when they starttheir health, their nervous
system, the anxiety, theinsomnia, all of these negative
health side effects that are,you know, they they come from
long-term abuse.
People don't see it becauseit's not like you wake up and

(10:56):
you go, Wow, I wonder whathappened from yesterday to
today.
That's not what it feels like.
It's like, man, I'm exhausted.
Gosh, okay, let me just see ifI can work harder tomorrow.
Slowly and gradually is whathappens.
And even if you say something,even if you go, you know what,
this isn't work.
This is this is somethingthat's really upsetting me.

(11:18):
Can we talk about it?
That conversation becomesunbearable because they're like,
you know, this is your issue.
You know, it it you're the onethat's insecure.
It's not my fault you feel thatway.
It's not my fault you gain thatextra five pounds.
It's not my fault, you know,you're jealous of this person.
And so then you're then all ofa sudden the conversation that

(11:39):
you thought was going to be anemotional, open conversation now
becomes you're defendingyourself about something that
they did, they said, they'redoing.
And now all of a sudden you'reyou're taking back that blame
and you're like, okay, well, I'mnot gonna talk about it
anymore.
So you bury it.
Yeah.
And it festers.

All right.
So, and I think this needs tobe asked.
How do you know if you'remarried to a narcissist or
you're in a relationship with anarcissist versus someone that
just is sometimes a real assholeor a douchebag?

Well, you know what?
The reason that question cameup so much when we when we first
started our business threeyears ago, we came up with a
questionnaire.
It's actually free, and I willgive it to you, the link.
It's are they a narcissist?
And there's 15 very pointedquestions that have a scoring
mechanism to them.
And they're about how thisperson treats you.

(12:35):
And the questions are are veryinteresting because they're not
just, well, are they mean?
Are they they're it's real lifequestions during situations and
it's multiple choice.
So once you go through the 15questions, it will tally up your
score.
If it's 30 points and under,you've got somebody that's

(12:56):
probably high maintenance,somebody that's got, you know, a
big ego, they've got uh someannoying traits, but you
probably can work through itbecause they're it sounds like
that they actually might bewilling to compromise somewhat.
When you get over 30, 30 toaround, you know, 50, and it
goes all the way to 75, you haveserious concerns with this

(13:19):
person.
This person is um gonna be verydifficult to compromise,
change, deal with, rationalizewith.
When you get over 50, mineactually rated a 72, um, and you
get into that category, there'sno way to deny they're a
narcissist.
And they will not change.

(13:39):
They are actually doing thingsto purposely tear you down, to
purposely destroy you, topurposely drain you, control
you, intimidate you, isolateyou.
All of these questions relateto that.
And that's the reason we didthe questionnaire because people
are like, I know something'swrong, I just don't know what it
is.
It's like, take thequestionnaire, it's free.

All right.

So we'll yeah, we'll give that to you, anyone
in your audience that wants it.

So I did take the questionnaire yesterday.
And did you?
Yeah, I'm we're oh we're good.
We're good.
And okay, good, good, good,good.
I mean, every husband's gottheir quirky issues and can be
an ass sometimes, right?
But or a baby, yeah, right.
Yeah, a big baby.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Of course.
But I think you know, gettingback to your situation, what was

(14:25):
that process like for you?
Identifying the issue, losingemotionally, what you lost
mentally, and then kind of howyou came out on the other side.

Well, I was so desperate to try to figure out
how to fix the problem because II had no clue what a narcissist
was.
I mean, you know, 15 years ago.
And it was very interestingbecause when I met him, he said
he was a recovering alcoholic,that he did not drink.
And I was like, okay, that'sgood, you know, because you
know, he told me about thingsthat he did when he drank.
And so he started drinkingafter we got married.

(15:00):
He relapsed because I wasfinding things like wine bottles
in the hedge outside, you know,just random things.
And I'm like, what in theworld?
And so, of course, he he said,I drove him to drink, you know,
so then it was my fault that hewas drinking again.
But drinking brought onviolence.
So not only was he just he hehas sociopathic tendencies too,

(15:26):
but I was so desperate to try tofigure this out, you know, the
going into the treatment, youknow, going with him to the
meetings, all of these things.
Nothing was working.
So I finally said, if we don'tgo to marriage counseling, I
don't know if if I can stay.
I just can't, I can't, youknow, I'm I was an executive, so
I was really struggling to keepup with my job and come home to

(15:46):
this, you know, come home to, Ididn't know what I would come
home to.
It was always like a surprise.
So we went to counseling, whichis always a mistake if you're
married to a narcissist, becausethey're not about admitting
fault, they're not about uhtrying to figure out the root
problem.
They're all about lying, lyingto the counselor, making you

(16:09):
look like you're the unstableone, and you do look unstable.
Because when you go tocounseling and you they start
lying, you start getting upset.
And so that's what happened.
He was like, Well, she's underso much stress at work, you
know, she's just blaming thingson me.
I really think she might bedrinking during the day.
And I'm like, So you your yourreaction in in counseling is,

(16:34):
are you what?
I mean, I lost it.
And so she's looking at me likeyou know, maybe you are
unstable because he's being calmand he's you know, he's tearing
up, and they're such, you know,Academy Award-winning actors.
And so I was so furious andupset when we left.
I said, I cannot believe youlied.
And he said, Well, I didn'twant you to just bash me the

(16:56):
whole time.
I'm like, that's not whatmarriage counseling is about.
So we went one more time.
It was not good.
And so he said to her, he goes,I think I'm gonna get my own
counselor because I think you'rejust siding with her and I'm
gonna get because she keptcalling him out on things.
And I'll never forget, I was inmy car because we we drove
separately.
She called me and she says, Ihave to fire you.

(17:17):
She said, Um, I'm fired, youknow, I don't want to see you
two anymore.
And she said, now I will seeyou, but I'm not gonna see you
and your husband.
She said, I believe he's anarcissist.
It's the first time I everheard that word.
First time ever heard it.
I went, I don't even know whatthat is.
And so she said, Well, I needyou to look it up.
And she said, and I need you toread these traits.

(17:37):
And so I, it was one of thosethings like the bell went off.
I went, my gosh, this is whythings aren't making sense.
This is why I think I'm crazy.
This is why I'm believing hislies.
This is why I am, I am, I'm I'mnever gonna fix it.
It's not a fixable problem.
There's no cure for it.

(17:58):
So when people when you finallycome to terms with it, that's
when you can actually startdoing something about it, but it
has to do with you, not them.
And that's where people have abig the biggest problem because
a lot of times there's kidsinvolved, and you know, there's
marriage, and you might be astay-at-home mom, and then
there's money, and all theselegal things come up.
But it's it's once you findout, and that's that's kind of

(18:21):
what that was for me, is I'mlike, okay, now I know what I'm
dealing with.
I'm not gonna be able to fixit.
I am not gonna be able torepair this marriage.
My goal is to get out of themarriage.
My biggest mistake wasannouncing that, and I wasn't
prepared for that war.
I said, I I want a divorce.
You know, you're not the personI married.

(18:43):
I'm this is never gonna workout.
We're into year six.
And um, he started laughing andhe said, Okay, pack your bags
and get out.
Now, we lived in my house.
It was my house.
I'm the one that had the bigjob.
He was always in some careerthat would fail.
And I'm like, Well, I'm notleaving.
And he goes, Well, I don't wanta divorce, so I'm not leaving.
And man, I was not prepared forthat.

(19:06):
And it it was a legal battle.
I ended up having to getrestraining order against him.
I do have one for life, butbecause he became violent.
Um, and so picking up thepieces during during the
breakup, which is very difficultbecause I always tell people do
not reveal your playbook untilyou're prepared to play that

(19:26):
game.
Because they will, they'llsteamroll you because they'll
lie, they'll start smearcampaigns, they'll they'll turn
the community against you andfriends, family.
You don't even know what'sgoing on.
You have no idea because you'reyou're trying to survive it,
you're trying to figure it out.
And so they, when they sensethat they're losing control,

(19:47):
that's when they start plotting,they start sending their false
narrative out there.
And it that's what makes it sodifficult for people to leave.
Because one, you've by thispoint, you've been isolated.
They've probably, you know,pulled you away from all your
friends, you're not doing anyextra activities, they turn
family members against you, theymay have turned the kids

(20:09):
against you.
All of it is a ruthless andevil plot.
I'm sorry, that's what it is.
If that's who they are, that isall intentional.
And it leaves you isolated,alone, devastated, uh, feeling
like you have no choice, thatyou don't have any options.
But that's what's that's what'snot true.
Um, so the acceptance andacknowledgement actually turns

(20:32):
the brain a little bitdifferently into what is
happening to, okay, now I knowwhat's happening.
Where are my next steps?
And taking little tiny babysteps for that planning is what
I tell my clients before you sayanything, because this helps
your brain prepare too, youknow, so you're not in that

(20:52):
survival mode of being paralyzedwith fear.
You're actually taking littleaction steps.
And I'm a journaler.
I mean, I had to startjournaling back then because I
did think I was losing my mind.
So I'm I'm one of these peoplethat push journaling, not
because it's like, oh, you haveto be a great writer.
No, you're writing your factsdown, your truth, because that's

(21:12):
the only one that you need tobelieve is your truth.
So I always tell people,journal, even if it's just
writing the F word down for thefirst three pages, which is what
my first journal looked like.
I just was, I was just sofurious.
So, but writing things down,when you doubt yourself, you can
go back and read your truth.

(21:33):
You're not listening to theperson because they will flip it
around, they'll gaslight you.
You have to believe your truth.
So, writing things down waslike a lifesaver for me because
um, when in my weakest moments,when the charmer came back, when
the love bombing started again,when they I'm so sorry.

(21:54):
I I mean, I took him back threetimes.
Three times.
It was like, what is wrong withme?
Me, but I fell for it.
I felt because I wasn't whole.
I wasn't healed.
I wasn't recovered.
I was still in the brain fogsituation.
And they're masters.
They are masters.
They are.
Yeah.
And they'll do it without eventhinking about your true

(22:17):
feelings.

Melissa, we're gonna take a quick break and
when we come back, we're gonnatalk about having a narcissistic
parent.
Quick pause for a second.
If you've been listening tothis podcast and thinking, oh my
gosh, my friend needs to hearthis.
Don't keep it to yourself.
Seriously.
So many women out there aretrying to figure this stuff out
alone.

(22:38):
Health hormones, aging, all ofit.
And half the time we don't evenknow where to start.
That's exactly why I createdthis podcast.
So if something you've heardtoday resonated with you, send
it to a friend, a sister, yourworkout buddy, that woman you
were just talking to aboutperimenopause over coffee.
Because these conversations,they matter.

(22:59):
And the more women we bringinto this space, the better we
all get.
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
All right, we are back.
Melissa, you know, we talkabout leaving the the marriage,
which may be easier at timesthan if you have a narcissistic

(23:21):
parent because there's thatlifelong bond with that person.
Can you share an example ofwhere you've worked with a
client that has had this happen,or really kind of the steps
that person would have to taketo make sure that they stay
whole emotionally?

Yes, I've had actually quite a few clients
that have had mothers, fathers,siblings, and some people have
been on our guest show.
In fact, I um I wrote a bookthat's called uh Blood Does Not
Mean Bond for people who aredealing with not a spouse, but
an in-law, a relative, a parent,because that changes the

(24:01):
dynamics.
Because, like you said, it'slike this could be your mom or
your dad.
So you're talking about youmight have kids and that's the
grandparents, and you doholidays there, or you've got
siblings that get together oncea year.
It can still cause such anincredible conflict to the point
where it actually ruins yourholidays, your family time

(24:24):
together.
And so boundaries are are likenon-negotiable.
And when I say that, um, theboundaries are dependent on the
person that, like, let's say,like I have a client, it's her
father.
And um he's like so dependenton her because uh her mother
died, but he tears her down.

(24:46):
I mean, he caused her firstmarriage to end.
I mean, her first husband lefther because of her father, and
so now it's causing strain onmarriage number two, and she
adores this man and he'swonderful, her husband.
But the father, because he lostcontrol of his wife because she
died, the daughter has alwaysbeen just it's like tear her

(25:10):
down.
She's never good enough.
You're you can never get myapproval, you can never get my
love.
You got to keep trying harder,harder, harder grades,
athletics, everything.
It starts, you know, it starteda long time ago.
And I said, um, there comes apoint in time where you have to
choose yourself.
You have to be selfish.

(25:31):
And it's not selfish in a waythat uh is a negative sense,
like you say, someone'sself-centered or whatever, but
you're the only person that cando that.
You're the only person that canchoose yourself over and above
the person that is actuallycausing you misery.
And the boundary settingdoesn't have to go to the
extreme of I'm never seeing youagain.

(25:53):
I have clients that they've hadto do that.
They've actually had to blockthat person so they can think
clearly, so they can starthealing.
But the boundaries could be allright, if when we walk in, if
this is what you're going tosay, if this is what you're
going to do, we're going to turnaround and leave.
And that's something youdiscuss with your family because

(26:13):
it's not like your husband,your kids, or whatever, they
can't see it.
They see how upset you are.
So that's something that youhave to have.
You got you have to have yourposse, you know, yeah, saying,
listen, we go in, granddadstarts this, mom is going to
say, All right, pack your stuffand we're gonna go eat pizza
somewhere else.
And I said, you can't justthreaten that.

(26:35):
I said, you are going to haveto actually exercise that
boundary.
It it's it's very upsetting tothe narcissist because you've
never done it before.
They've been able to get awaywith that.
But once you start settingboundaries, even if they are
just step-by-step boundaries,you are in charge of not
allowing the boundary breaking.

(26:56):
If you let, and they'll push,they will push to break the
boundary.
You have to have this is theboundary.
If they do this, I'm going todo this.
And it's not negotiable.
It is the only way you canactually take control back of
your life.
And you may feel guilty aboutit, you may be worried about it.
Then unfortunately, you'regoing to live your life exactly

(27:17):
the way it is right now, andyou're going to be abused by
this person every single timeyou're around them.
So setting boundaries is arethe is the only way.
And those boundaries can't bebroken, and they may include
actually blocking this personout of your life.
And it is very, very hard todo.
But when people start realizingwhat they've actually blocked,

(27:38):
which is the abuse, theteardown, dragging your
self-esteem down, when you startwriting the things down, and I
tell people this is it.
You write two pieces of paper,what this their qualities, what
they've brought to your lifethat's positive, not made up in
your head on it.
This is you.
You have to be honest withyourself.
What are the positive things?

(27:59):
What are the negative things?
What have they taken away fromyou?
Where are your feelings whenthey do this?
99.9% of the time, the goodqualities don't even go through
this third line.
The bad qualities are front andback, potentially pages.
That's the that's the truthright there.
And sometimes you have to seeit.
You can't just feel it andthink it.

(28:21):
You have to write it down.
And then you can actually lookat it.
You know, what am I giving up?
You're giving up these threethings on this good side to put
up with all these things on thisnegative side.
So yeah.

And you I can see where this is probably one of
the hardest ones.
You know, when it when it is aparent, because you you love
your parent, but you also have areally difficult time grappling
with how they treat you andknowing that they're likely not
going to change.
How how often are eatingdisorders, particularly with

(28:56):
young women, associated with anarcissistic parent?

Well, I do have I have one young client who um is
anorexic because she was she'svery athletic, um, but it's she
can never measure up uh the theskill level, you know.
It's never um, she's like agymnast and she's in cheering
and stuff.
It's never, wow, that wasamazing.

(29:21):
You know, she came in second orwhatever.
It's always, if you would havedone this, then you wouldn't
have done that.
It's it's not even get to thatpoint.
It's when you give them all thegood things, it's well, it's
that extra three pounds.
If you just if you could dropthat, you would be faster.
You would you could run faster.
You could, you know, you couldyour flips would be better.

(29:44):
So it's never, and then it'slike, okay, then she goes on
these crazy starvation diets,which then sap her energy.
So then she's weak, then shegets hurt.
And I asked her one day, Isaid, um, that's the second time
you, you know, that injury'shappened.
I said, um, you know, I knowyour coach said, you know, if
you do this, you're not gonnahurt your wrist again.

(30:05):
And she started crying and shesaid, um, she said, I did it on
purpose.
And um, it was almost like shedid it on purpose so she didn't
have to compete, so she didn'thave to be torn down.
It's really sad, it's reallyheartbreaking because she she
couldn't do anything to pleasehim, and so she harmed herself,

(30:26):
you know, in order not to hearthe teardowns.
And of course, he was veryupset about the her, but it was
almost like that was a betterform of abuse than him tearing
her performance down.
And so that's it's sad.
It really is.
Um, because you're what how youfeel about yourself a lot of
times has to do with what you'retold over and over and over,

(30:48):
you know.
And so you're losing yourself-confidence, your
self-esteem, your self-worth isbecause the person is constantly
tearing that down.
Yeah.
You know, tearing your yourarmor down.

What are people getting wrong then when they
think they can fix therelationship?

Um, one, not understanding what they're
dealing with.
Because if you are dealing witha narcissist, you will never
fix it.
And that's that takes a lot ofalmost like courage to even find
out about it, to find out ifthey are that.
Because it's like, okay, once Ifind out, then I have to do
something about it.
That's that is correct.
Yes, you have a choice then ofhow you're going to move

(31:29):
forward.
But the acceptance of it, ifyou, if you can't, if you don't
want to find out what it is,then you're going to constantly
have that juggling of, I'm goingto try this, I'm going to try
this, or you just give up andyou be nothing and you're just
quiet and you become as small aspossible.

(31:49):
It it just sucks the life outof you.
It really does.
And then you're not, you don'tthink you're strong enough or
good enough, you know, and it'sall because of the lies that
they've fed to you.
So wanting to make adifference, just wanting,
wanting to do it, to take a stepto find out what am I dealing
with?
And then now what can I domoving forward?

(32:11):
It's huge because if you juststay paralyzed, that's it, it'll
just get worse.
It'll, it will never getbetter.
It'll just get worse.
And people have stayed in theserelationships.
I have clients 47 years, 45years, and they're they're
divorcing.
They're going, they're they'regetting out.
It's taken them a long time,but it's like they've never felt

(32:31):
more free in their life.
And how terrifying to bemarried to 47 years and you're
75 years old, and it's like, Ican't wait to look, I'm looking
forward to the rest of my life,however long that is.
I don't care if I'm alone.
At least I'm free.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, I I have to say that what you do has to be
incredibly gratifying when yousee somebody that does like go
through the steps and comes outon the other end and they're
they're finally happy.
But I have to say though, youknow, we all know that stress
and anxiety, all those thingscan do incredible damage to the
body.
Do you see patterns like sleepissues, anxiety, weight changes,

(33:09):
burnout?
Do you see that with yourclients?

Oh, gosh, yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
Um, in fact, I was um it itdearly destroyed me physically
because I was always into um,you know, I worked out, I'm from
Louisiana.
I love to cook, you know, so II I really, really love to cook.
And so I was always, you know,I took very good care of myself.
When I was going through this,the things that mattered to me

(33:34):
as far as my health went startedgoing to the wayside.
Now I was like losing weight, Iwasn't sleeping, insomnia, my
hair was falling out, my skin, Ilooked gray.
I it just I looked sick.
And people were asking me, areyou sick?
You know, what's going on?
And so it just takes such atoll on you physically.
And you know, in our business,we we we we have what we call

(33:56):
our four pillars of recovery,and that's mental, physical,
financial, and spiritual,because those core things are
what they take from you, andthat's what gives you the
strength to actually moveforward.
But when I met John, myhusband, um, years and years
later, John is a fitnessfanatic.
I mean, he's he's a, you know,he's always been into health and

(34:19):
fitness and nutrition.
And thank God for him, I wouldnever take a vitamin in my life.
Uh, but we just startedpeptides too, which is
interesting because um, youknow, I'm 63, he's 60, and we're
we started taking him like sixmonths ago.
But that's been amazing.
Um, but it's it's the thephysical part, especially with

(34:39):
women when they are inmenopause, they've gone through
menopause, you already thinkyou're crazy then.
But when you're going throughabuse, it's so kind, people
don't even have any clue.
It's it's as bad asperabinaopause and menopause is
going through it while beingabused, it it's just it feels
like it's not survivable, youknow?

(35:00):
And so getting back yourstrength, your and I tell people
if you just walk to the mailboxand back, getting outside,
breathing some air, listening toa bird, I don't care what it
is, it is taking back some ofyour power, some of the control
that's been taken away from you.
And you can start with teenytiny baby steps, but you start

(35:22):
feeling better about yourself.
And that's the whole thing withyou know, journaling is not
just writing down the doom andgloom, but writing down your
goal.
What do you what do I want?
What do I see?
What do I, if I could blink myeye if I was a genie, what would
my life look like?
Write that down.
It creates dopamine, it createsa positive feeling in your
head, something to look forwardto.

(35:44):
So it's very, it's gradualsteps, but people think, well,
it's just been too long.
Like it had been seven years.
I'd not step foot in a gym.
I was scared, I didn't evenknow how to work the equipment
anymore.
And so I just started verysmall.
And John and I um uh we uh wewe incorporated warrior wellness
into our program because that'spart of the physical thing, but
it's all about just practicalthings you can do when you're

(36:08):
just starting back again andtaking control of your, you
know, your physical being.

And I do want to talk about the warrior piece of
this because I I think this isvery integral in how people move
forward.
I I wanted to ask one lastquestion about the who, because
I just thought of friendships.
You know, friendships are theycan be delicate, right?

(36:34):
Because you may be part of afriend group, but you've got
that one friend in that friendgroup that may be the
narcissist.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah.

How do people set boundaries with that person
without losing touch with therest of their friends?

That is a hard one.
It really is, because I have aclient um who she was part of
um, and she's probably I thinkshe's about 65, but they had a
woman's group that met once amonth for lunch, and they had a
name for their group orwhatever, but there was the one,
the one woman.
And it's like out of the nineor 10 women, she targeted my

(37:14):
client.
It was there was some kind ofjealousy or competition.
There's always a reason for it.
They feel that um it becauseshe was bubbly and funny, and
you know, people kind ofgravitated to her.
So she was a threat.
And so that person would alwaysmake these little underhanded
comments, you know, about heroutfit or her haircut, or wow,

(37:36):
did you know, did yourhairdresser mess the color up
this time?
Those little passive aggressivethings that seem harmless and
funny, but they hurt, you know,they they hurt.
And so she talked to the ladyabout it.
And you know, of course, it'sthey never admit it.
So she's like, Oh, you're justbeing insecure.
She goes, Oh my gosh, everybodythought that was funny.
You know, why are you soinsecure?
And so unfortunately, the ladydid the little smear campaigns

(38:00):
with the other, you know, someof the other friends and stuff.
And so um, she felt like shewas being excluded from things.
Like, you know, she would seesomething on Facebook and she
didn't know anything about it.
And so it was starting to getvery um hurtful to her because
she's like, okay, this person isnow taking away my friend

(38:22):
group.
And so I said, Well, why who inthe group do you trust?
You know, because I hate to useall these crazy terms, but
they're always there's flyingmonkeys out there, and flying
monkeys are the ones thatactually spread the gossip,
they're the ones that likestirring the pot, they're the
ones that you can't really trustbecause if you say something,
they'll go back to thatnarcissist and then they'll feed
off of it.
It's horrible.
It's like the wicked witch ofthe West.

(38:43):
But uh, so um, I'm like, youhave to watch out for those
people.
But I said, is there somebodyin there that you actually trust
and that you have a closerelationship that you can just
go to lunch with and just behonest?
You're not bashing the person.
You talk about what what it'swhat it feels like for you, you
know, um, because you don't wantto sound like that person, like
she's doing this, she's doingthat, whatever.

(39:05):
So she actually did that.
She actually talked had thatheart-to-heart conversation with
the one person.
And she said, All I'm askingyou to do is just be aware, just
see if it is it me?
Am I being insecure?
Am I?
And so the next couple lunches,that person actually was

(39:25):
observant and actually kind of,and she bounced some of the
negative comments back to theother woman.
And then that woman got very,you know, very defensive or
whatever.
And then all of a sudden, shestarted, the other lady now was
the victim.
And so it took them a while tofigure out because this woman

(39:46):
was, you know, she was anattorney, she was smart, she had
a lot of money, she paid for alot of stuff.
It took them a while, but theyall they figured out that she
actually was the cancer in thegroup.
And so um, as a team, theydecided to, you know, this
wasn't the group for her.
And they they actually removedher from the group.

(40:07):
But my my client was this closeto removing herself from the
group, which means that personwould have won, you know, and
she would have been alone.
And I, you know, it it may ormay not always work out that
way, but you have to be braveenough to at least have somebody
in your corner that you trust,somebody that has your that has
your back that actually candefend you if there's little

(40:29):
smearing things going on behindyour back.
Because if you don't doanything, if you just if you
start pulling back, then itbecomes easier for whatever lies
this person is saying to becomebelievable, you know, like and
it won't ever be, it'll alwayssound like concern.
Yeah, you know, it's nevergonna be full-on bashing.

(40:49):
And then you start pullingaway, you start don't you don't
show up because you don't wantto deal with it, then it's well,
see, you know, she's havingissues, she's having issues with
her family, she's havingmarital problems, and it becomes
where it seems like the liesmight be true.
So I always say you you have tohave that person in your
corner.
Um, and I had one in mind, wecall ourselves the Yah Yah

(41:13):
Sisterhood, and there's like 10of us.
They uh because I startedisolating, I stopped going.
I, you know, I was alwaysmaking excuses for his behavior,
you know, and finally I didn'twant to deal with it.
I didn't want to explain itanymore.
And so they stopped invitingme.
They did, but one of them didnot give up on me.
And she said, There's somethinggoing on, and I'm not going to

(41:34):
stop until you tell me what itis.
And I'm I'm just busy, we'rejust, you know, it's just merit.
I'm just tired.
And she did not give up on me.
And and so finally she justsaid, Um, there's something
about your husband I don't like.
I'm just gonna tell you rightnow.
She said, I'm sorry, there'ssomething going on.
She said, I don't, I think he'sfake.
And she just like let me haveit.
And I was like, Yes, he's allthose things.

(41:55):
But you know, it could havegone bad for her because I could
have said, What do you mean?
You know, but she was the oneperson in nine years, she did
not give up on me.
And so I just, you know, I'mgrateful for her because I
confided in her.
I told her every I it's almostembarrassing.
It's almost like, uh, how did Ifall for all of that?
It's not like you fall for itovernight.

(42:18):
It happens gradually, it's agradual breakdown.
And by the time you realizeyou're all you're you have kids,
you're married, you'refinancially strapped to that
person, you still love them.
So it that's where people beatthemselves up.
And other people that haven'tbeen through it are like, well,
why didn't you just leave?
You should be thankful thatyou're gone.
It doesn't work that way.

(42:39):
The brain doesn't work thatway.
Yeah, it's it's very hard tolet go and it's very hard to
break that bond.

Well, and I think this is important because it,
you know, we we talked about themarriage, the parent, the
friend.
There's there's differentlevels of connection and bond
and responsibility there thatyou know, one is easier than the
other to walk away from.
So I think that was it, thatwas a good exercise here for us

(43:05):
to talk about the three.
It is possible to rebuild.
And you you talk about becomingthe warrior.
How do you start rebuildingyour identity after leaving?

Yes.
And that's and that's the mostinteresting part because um who
you were when they met you andwho you are when you get out are
two different people.
Um, most of the time you can'teven recognize yourself because
you're thinking, oh my gosh, Iwas so confident.
I, you know, I cared about theway I looked, I didn't gain
weight or I didn't look sick.
All of these things, when youstart looking at a photo of

(43:41):
yourself back then and a photoof yourself now, chances are
these are like two differentpeople.
You you really are it's almosta rude awakening, but it's it's
something for you to look at tosay, you know what?
Did I like who I was when I metthem?
Was that who I wanted to be?
Is that Was that?
Do I like a piece of her?

(44:01):
Do I like all of her?
Do I want that person back?
Or do I want to be a differentversion of her?
In my case, um, I realized umwhen I was going through my my
healing journey, the person Iwas, I admired her, she was
successful, she was confident,but she was a people pleaser to

(44:23):
the point of it was theachievement, the why, why, why,
why?
Why was I wanting that?
Why was I, you know, trying toclimb the corporate ladder, you
know, just get to the top and dogood work.
But was it the do good work orwas it the recognized, was it
being recognized and admired?

(44:44):
And so there were things aboutmy personality that I learned
that I didn't want to bring overinto the the healing part of
it.
I wanted the compassion, Iwanted the empathy, I wanted, I
wanted some of some of whatcaused me to probably fall prey
to this person.
I I like those things about me.
I like being compassionate.

(45:05):
I'm kind.
I like, I'm I'm a happy person.
I've got it, you know, I thinkI have a positive attitude.
So there's things that I wantedto pull from this original
person into the person that I amnow.
I wanted those traits, even ifthey were the some of the traits
that got me in trouble, atleast I could recognize things.
I could recognize things.
And what it did is it one, Ispent um a long time just alone.

(45:30):
And I don't mean like alone,isolated, I mean not in a
relationship, because I wantedto know the who I am.
Who am I?
Who who do I want to be?
And once I find out the realperson and I'm comfortable and
happy with this real person,then it doesn't really matter if
I meet somebody or I don't meetsomeone.
But if I do, I know what Iwant, I know what I don't want,

(45:54):
I know what I will put up with,I know what I won't put up with.
I'm not saying I don'tcompromise, but it it helped me
to where I wasn't looking forsomeone to fill a hole, like
something lonely inside of me,or something that I thought,
well, if I had a partner, thenit will be better, or then I
could enjoy this more, then Ican do that more.
I took all of that out of theequation because I was really

(46:18):
scared of making the mistakeagain and falling victim to it.
So I planned it where I'm like,okay, I'm going to build my
life and I'm going to be verycomfortable with who I am as a
person.
And then if I meet someone,they're either going to like who
I am or they're not the personfor me.
I'm not going to tweak, change,and I'm not saying I don't

(46:38):
compromise, believe me, John andI have to compromise.
It's a marriage.
But I'm not going to,especially early on in the
relationship, change what Ithink and my views about things
to fit into their narrativebecause I really like them and I
want them to like me.
It's that's not that's not partof who I am anymore.

(46:59):
Um, I'm still compassionate,I'm open-minded, you know, I I'm
I compromise.
But compromising who you are asa person to blend in with
someone else is a dangeroustrack to go on because that's
when you, if that person issomebody that would would take
advantage of it, then thatpattern starts repeating itself.

(47:23):
And and I do have clients thatthey're so lonely and they feel
so bad about themselves, theywant that, they want someone to
fill that hole instead of itbeing themselves.
And then they make that mistakeagain and they get into
another, you know, damagingrelationship.

So yeah, that that was gonna be my main
question about all of that wasthe fear of making another
mistake, because you if you'restill that same person, yeah,
you may go that path.
But if you if you do thehealing and you become your own

(47:59):
warrior and be true to yourself,you're less likely to walk that
path again.

Because well, you know, you know what you want.
You know what's you know, someand what I tell my clients is I
I said, you know, relationshipsare are all about give and take,
but they have to be give andtake.
It can't be take, take, take,give, give, give, which is what
what we go through when we're inthese abusive relationships.
So you've got to write downbefore you even get out there
and you know, meet someone,write down your non-negotiables.

(48:28):
You know, write down, like, youknow, if it's religion, write
that down.
So many people will usereligion as a weapon, you know.
But that if that's anon-negotiable, then write it
down.
Um, if you're um working out,you know, like your health and
your fitness, I'm not gonna givethat up.
You certainly don't want to bewith someone who wants to, you

(48:49):
know, eat bonbons and chips andand you know, sit on the couch
or, you know, not do anything,not be physical and get out and
do things.
Don't compromise.
It's like, where are what arethey?
You know, what are yournon-negotiables?
Write those things down becausethat will help you when you're
when you're meeting someone oranything, a friend, whatever,

(49:09):
whatever somebody you want tospend some of your life with.
If your non-negotiables have tobe negotiated, then that's
probably not the person you wantto invest your time and effort
with, because you're you aregoing to be compromising your
non-negotiables.
And you may just have one, youmay have two, you may have five.
It's it's your individual list,but write those down because if

(49:32):
someone's asking you tocompromise it, they may not be
the person that you want in yourlife, no matter what that is.

Yeah, I think this is good advice for even
young people who are gettingmarried for the first time.
I, you know, I I think theseare things that we all should
have are non-negotiables.
I mean, there's certainly wecan compromise on many things.
Right.
But the scary part is what youtold me at the beginning was it

(49:57):
could be six months, it could besix years, it could be 26
years.
It it it like when does the theevil person rear rear his ugly
head, you know?

And then that's what it's generally very soon,
it's generally when they'retrying to win you, there'll be
some red flags because you'll goback and you'll think, Wow,
that was kind of a red flag.
But I didn't have mynon-negotiables, and so I didn't
realize it was a red flag.
But then the red flags startadding up.
And and that's the sad part.

(50:29):
It's like when someone'sfinally reaching a point of
asking for help, they they cansee when the relationship
started changing.
But it was a situation whereyou get through that whole, you
know, denial.
Let me fix it, let me tryharder.
All of that takes time andeffort, and it just drains you
as a person.

(50:50):
Um, and I think the reasonpeople stay so much longer than
than they should is because theydon't know what they're dealing
with, they think they have nooptions, and they just feel too
weak in order to move forward.
And and those things are nottrue because if you do want out
and you are miserable, you can'tyou can't do it, even if it's

(51:12):
little tiny baby steps.
At least it's moving in theright direction.
But it takes that what I tellpeople, the first step's always
the hardest.
Yeah.
The acknowledgement and saying,I want to do something about
this.
I just don't know what to do.

Melissa, what is uh the biggest red flag people
ignore?

Um, I would say just from myself and my clients,
and it sounds so cliche, but ifsomething seems too good to be
true, you really want toinvestigate it.
And I say that it's just if ifsomebody seems just like you're
kind of going, wow, then what Iwhat I tell people like mine

(51:53):
told me he he he liked to doyoga, that he loved water
skiing, that um, you know, andthe thing he loved going to the
beach, all of the things that Ilove.
Well, when I went to hisFacebook, he he he was a snow
skier, you know, and he went tothe race cars, you know, it's
like how what is that, you know?

(52:15):
So I tell people, you know, inthe internet is a very easy
place to find information aboutsomeone.
So if you if there's somebodyyou want to spend some time with
or you think you do, just looklook them up, man.
Look them up on Google socialmedia.
If they're starting to tell youthings that uh that sound so
great and so exciting, but theyhave no photos about it, they

(52:36):
have nothing on their profileanywhere that shows up that that
is something they want to do,then why would they say that?
You you can't change yourhistory.
I mean, if people look at myFacebook, they'll they'll see
all they'll see the sunsets, thesunrise to nauseum, you know.
So when someone says I'm abeach person, then if they don't

(52:56):
have anything about the beach,they're not a beach person.
So why'd they say that to you?
So it's one, it's those are thethings that I think people miss
those red flags.
They take it at face valuebecause it's what they want to
hear.
They want to feel it.

Yeah, I could see where someone is just tells you
what you want to hear.
And you know, if if it's alittle over the top, then yeah,
that's yeah.
Yeah.

All right.
Well, and sometimes people justexaggerate, and that's okay.
You can exact, you can say,well, I'm a good water skier.
Maybe they suck at waterskiing, but they try and they
they have gone water skiing.
But when someone, you know,tells you things that start
making you think, wow, this isthis is a person that has that
gets me and has so much incommon with me, I would say
don't take it all as face value.

(53:43):
You know, talking to friendsand families, looking at
Facebook, having these justthese little um questions,
because if I would have listenedto his mother, his mother's, I
love her, that the things thatshe would say, uh, they would
red flags.
They were red flags.
It was almost like she wastrying to warn me without really

(54:04):
warning, because she was scaredof him too.
So, but it was little thingsthat uh and and John, you know,
because he was with a covert inour her father and her brother
said things to him about, well,I hope, you know, I hope you get
used to having vacationsruined.
We, you know, she ruined all ofour vacations.
That's something, you know,they were ha ha and about it.
That was a big red flag rightthere, you know, and they were

(54:27):
just dating.
So people, I think people justthey want uh companionship, they
just want to be happy, theywant to spend their life with
someone.
We're creatures, that's who wewe were meant to be.
But when you want something sobad, sometimes you don't open
your eyes to what's going on.
Um, and so the the red flagsare when their actions and their

(54:49):
words don't connect, and you'reyou have kind of a moment of,
hmm, don't ignore that becausethere's generally your words and
actions, maybe they don'talways match up, but they
should.

Yeah, you know.
Yeah, thought that's that'sterrific advice, actually.
And and on a personal note,what is one of your
non-negotiables in your liferight now?

It's probably my Christianity.
I grew up Catholic and um, youknow, it's just very rigid.
Um, and so when I finally gotout on my own, I just stopped
going to church altogether.
You know, I just stopped goingto church.
Um, and so um it was years andyears later that I actually
started just because I was solost.

(55:33):
I was just devastated.
I couldn't, I didn'tunderstand.
I was praying, you know.
I'm like, I don't, I justdidn't know what to do.
I'm like, do you even hear me?
What's happening here?
But when I got back in into theBible and and starting to
actually read the word andunderstand there's a personal
relationship I could have withJesus Christ, that's not
negotiable to me.
Some people have higher power,some people have different
spirituality.

(55:54):
It's uh it's not even a um aquestion of is mine better than
yours or yours better than mine?
Mine's not negotiable.
So, John, I would never havegone out with him if he told me,
well, you know, I'm really notinto religion or I'm not into
that, or you know, I'm not gonnastop you from doing it.
That's a big part of my life.

(56:15):
And so this mission that thiscompany that we we did this out
of praying about it, you know,because we retired.
And so um, that is anon-negotiable for me.
Yeah, is um my Christianity.

Wow.
Yeah.
You know what?
I'm so glad you didn't saysleep.
Because I'm an insomnia now.

I'm sure John would say it.
Yeah, he'd probably say thatbecause I keep him up, but I'm
not a good sleeper.
I'm a much better sleeper nowthat I'm on peptides.
That made a big difference.
But uh, I've never been a goodsleeper.
So yeah, yeah.

It's just so it's funny because probably 90% now
in the last year, I would say90% of my guests will say, Oh,
sleep.
Sleep's my non-negotiable.
But I love that you you broughtup your your relationship with
God.
I love that.
I I think that has helped methrough many days.

Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes that's all you have.

I know, right?
That's all I had.

It was like, okay, well, here you go.
Can you please take thisproblem for me?
Because I can't deal with it.
All right.

Jesus, take the wheel.
And then Melissa, if someonelistening feels like something
is off in their relationship,and it it can be it can be a
partner, it could be a spouse,it could be a parent or even
their bestie.
But they're they're not quitesure.
What would you say to them?

Well, one, if they if they're interested in
figuring it out, I would suggestthat questionnaire.
Because like I said, it's free.
Um, it it answers a lot ofcommon sense things as you took
it.
You took it and and and sawwhat it said.
And then once they, once theycome to those terms, whether or
not it's traits are full on, Ithink it gives them a better

(57:54):
opportunity to make a decision.
Because if somebody rates veryhigh on there and they start
thinking about personal thingsthat they've done in their
relationship, what they've said,it comes down to how much of
yourself are you willing tosacrifice for that relationship?
Because that person may not bewilling to sacrifice anything or

(58:17):
the same level or even close toit.
So, how much are you willing totake from your pot and pour
into their pot to make themhappy?
Knowing it's taking happinessout of your tank.
So if if you have to takehappiness out of your tank and
you never get it coming back in,then that relationship is going

(58:40):
to be exhausting and drainingand will literally it will take
away who you are as a personbecause when you start pouring
that much of yourself intosomeone else to make that person
happy, you're not responsiblefor anyone else's happiness.
And that's where people don'trealize it's not your job.
It's not your job to makesomeone else happy.
That that's not your job.
So if it becomes a job, if itfeels like a job, then making

(59:04):
the decision as to whether ornot you want to move forward in
that relationship is uh is huge.
And that is a very, verydifficult decision because you
probably care about a lot aboutthat person.
But if you don't want to severit, you have to create the
boundaries, the non-negotiableboundaries.
That's protecting yourself,that's protecting your armor.

(59:25):
So um people have to realize ifthey're not willing to respect
your boundaries, they don'trespect you.
You you don't mean that much tothem.
Otherwise, they wouldn't, theywouldn't be willing to
compromise.
They would be willing to say,you know what?
That's important to you, andI'm gonna respect that.
If they say, I'm not doingthat, that is what they're

(59:47):
saying about you.
You don't matter to them.
You your feelings don't matter.
You don't matter.
And that's the hardest thingfor someone to accept when they
care about the other person.
But it's it's absolutelycritical if you want to have
some type of control of thatrelationship.
And it's a relationship thatactually brings you brings you

(01:00:08):
happiness.
It can't just all be take,take, take and nothing coming
back.
And so that's probably wherepeople have the hardest
decision.
But it's what what is therelationship bringing to you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah.

Melissa Rymer (01:00:19):
Yeah.
Could you even answer thequestion?
Can you what is it?
Is it because I'll ask that tosomebody, what is that
relationship bringing to you?
And they're like, um youshouldn't have to think that
long.
You know?
No.
If the relationship is thatimportant to you, you shouldn't
have to think that long as towhat it's what it's what are you
getting from the relationship?
What is that person bringing toyour life rather than what

(01:00:42):
they're taking from your life?

Michele Folan (01:00:44):
So perfectly said.
All right.
Melissa Reimer, where can thelisteners find you and John and
your work and even social media?

Our website is victim2warrior method.com.
And that website has prettymuch everything we offer.
We offer tons of resources,one-on-one coaching, not just
recovery coaching, but divorcecoaching.
And we offer warrior wellness,our podcast is on there, um, our
books, our um, we've got tonsof free resources where people

(01:01:15):
can actually go and just learnabout things and then looking at
our podcast, Warrior Talk.
But anytime they enter victimto Warrior, all of our social
media channels will come up.
We do a lot of of skits, and wethe reason we do skits is
because sometimes people need tosee what it looks like.
So John is always the bad guymost of the time, and it's hard

(01:01:35):
for him to be the bad guy.
And sometimes we do bloopers atthe end of the year because he
can't even get through these.
But when you look at ourvideos, um, we show what
gaslighting looks like, we showwhat isolation looks like, we
show what love bombing lookslike.
All of these skits are actual,well, the real life things that
happen to us.
And it's somebody able to lookin and see, oh, and that is that

(01:01:58):
is when really things startedblowing up because people were
like, oh my God, that's what I'mgoing through, that's what I'm
dealing with, that's my life.
You filming me.
So it takes some time seeingit, and then you realize I'm not
the crazy one.
That, okay, this isn't me.
And that's and a lot of the allof our resources are always on
there in our Lincoln bio andthings like that.

(01:02:19):
But we um we're also coming outwith a new mobile app.
So we'll hopefully have thatlaunched in two weeks.
But it's it's a a lot of peopleare financially abused when
they're going through this, andmoney's a problem.
So we we try to come up withsomething that was, you know,
just a monthly inexpensivesubscription where people could
actually connect, they could bein a community, they could get
the resources, they can go joinour live, you know, Q ⁇ A's and

(01:02:42):
things like that, um, where theyactually feel like they're part
of a community who gets them,who understands it, who's been
there, done that, or struggling,or you know, we our private
Facebook group probably has5,000 people in it from all over
the world, but people have beenthere like, oh my God, I was
there last year.
This is what I did to get outof that.

(01:03:02):
And then they're well, I wasI'm here now, but this is what I
did to get out of that.
So it's like talking to a groupof community that you don't
have to try to explain what itis.
You're basically saying it's asafe place to say, this is what
happened to me.
What do I do?
Or why do I miss the abuser?
Because a lot of people do,they don't realize you go

(01:03:23):
through a grieving process whenthat relationship's over because
you're grieving the loss of whoyou thought they were, the life
you thought you would have, theperson you used to be.
And people don't understandthat that grieving process
doesn't someone doesn't have tobe dead for you to grieve.
You're grieving the loss ofeverything that you thought you
had.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
Yeah.

So um, and going through that, those phases can
actually get to you to the otherside of acceptance and freedom
and moving on.

And I love the power of community, Melissa.
I think that is, you know,that's that's the part of the,
hey, I'm not alone.
And this isn't just me that'sgoing through this.
So I just think that's that'swonderful that you have that
established for the people thatfollow you.

Yeah, and it's private and it's anonymous, so
they can enjoy anonymous.
Like it's private.
We vet people, and we do thatfor a reason.
And it's and it's so peopledon't feel alone because you do
feel very alone and that peopledon't get it.
So that kind of helps peoplerealize you're not alone.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Love it.
Melissa Reimer, thank you forbeing here today on Asking for a
Friend.
I love this conversation.
And if you are listening tothis and this is resonating with
you, reach out to Melissa or ifyou want to share this episode
with a friend, I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me.
This is wonderful.
I really, really enjoyed it.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

Before you go, thank you for being here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always

(01:05:10):
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.

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