March 31, 2026 • 53 mins
If you’ve ever asked yourself, “Is this all there is?”—this episode is for you.
In this powerful conversation, Michele sits down with Angela Burk, author of The Real Girl’s Guide to Midlife, to unpack what’s really happening during midlife—and why it’s not a crisis, but a turning point.
From hormonal shifts and identity loss to reclaiming your voice, your body, and your desires, Angela shares a refreshingly honest take on what it means to evolve in your 40s, 50s, and beyond.
This episode dives into the emotional, physical, and psychological changes women experience—and how to stop shrinking, stop apologizing, and start living with intention.
You’ll learn:
- Why midlife feels chaotic (and why that’s completely normal)
- The connection between hormones, mood, and identity shifts
- How to stop people-pleasing and start setting boundaries
- Why strength—physical and emotional—is the foundation of longevity
- How to let go of who you were and step into who you’re becoming
- Simple ways to reclaim your voice, energy, and confidence
This isn’t about chasing your 30-year-old body.
It’s about building the life your 80-year-old self will thank you for becoming.
👉 If this episode resonates, share it with a friend who needs to hear it. We’re not meant to figure this out alone.
You can find Angela Burk's book, The Real Girls Guide to Midlife, on Amazon and other booksellers.
https://www.realgirlsguide55.com/
https://www.instagram.com/realgirlsguide55/
_________________________________________
If you’re doing “all the right things” and still feel stuck, adding a layer of support may be an option. I’ve partnered with a trusted telehealth platform offering modern solutions for women in midlife—including micro-dosed GLP-1 and other peptide therapies.
https://elliemd.com/michelefolan - Create a free account to view all products.
Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/askingforafriend_pod/
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Like to connect? Email me at askingforafriendpodcast1@gmail.com
Transcripts are created with AI and may not be perfectly accurate.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding a medical condition.
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Michele Folan (00:00):
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational purposes only andshould not be considered medical
advice.
Please consult a qualifiedhealthcare professional
regarding your individual healthneeds.
Let's talk about peptidesbecause they're not just GLP
ones.
Your body actually makespeptides naturally.
They're messengers that helpregulate things like fat
(00:22):
metabolism, muscle growth, skinhealth, recovery, and energy.
But here's the truth (00:27):
just like hormones, collagen, and muscle,
peptide production declines aswe age, especially
postmenopause.
So if you're feeling stuck,belly fat that won't budge,
slower recovery, low energy, orskin that just isn't bouncing
back like it used to, this mightbe a missing piece.
And no, this isn't aboutshortcuts.
(00:48):
Lifestyle still comes first.
Strength training, protein,sleep, stress management,
always.
But peptides can be a smartlayer on top of that foundation.
Not interested in a GLP1?
Totally fine.
There are other options thatsupport fat metabolism,
recovery, cognitive function,and healthy aging.
(01:10):
The key is quality and workingwith a trusted medical provider.
That's why I've partnered withLEMD to bring you clinically
guided, personalized peptideoptions that actually make sense
for midlife women.
And if you're curious, checkthe link in the show notes and
learn what might be right foryou.
Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between, we're
(01:36):
removing the taboo from whatreally matters in midlife.
If you've reached your 50s or60s, and life feels quieter than
you imagined, the kids aregrown, the calendar isn't as
(01:58):
chaotic, work life feelsroutine, and somewhere in the
back of your mind, a littlevoice is asking, Is this all
there is?
I saw something last week thatstopped me.
It suggested taking a moment toimagine your 80-year-old self
looking back at you right nowand asking her, What do you wish
(02:19):
I'd been brave enough to do?
What risk should I take?
Which dreams are still worthchasing?
That hit me really hard becausemidlife isn't the closing
chapter.
It's the editing phase, it'sthe revision, it's where we
decide whether we're going toshrink or expand.
(02:40):
And that's exactly why I'm soexcited for today's
conversation.
Angela Burke, author of TheReal Girl's Guide to Midlife,
isn't talking about crisis.
She's talking about awakening,about chaos, about personality
reboots and grieving who youwere and choosing who you're
(03:00):
becoming.
This isn't about chasing your30-year-old body.
It's about building the womanyour 80-year-old self will thank
you for becoming.
Angela Burke, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Angela Burk (03:12):
Thank you so much for having me.
What an introduction.
Michele Folan (03:14):
Well, thank you.
Thanks.
I I really was looking forwardto this conversation for a lot
of reasons.
But last week, when I saw thatquote about imagining you being
your 80-year-old self, it reallyhit home because what does that
80-year-old person really wishwe were doing at this phase of
(03:38):
life?
So good, good segue into thisconversation, I think.
And I want to talk about you alittle bit before your wonderful
book, The Real Girl's Guide toMidlife.
Who were you professionally andwhat were you building then?
Angela Burk (03:56):
Yeah.
It's a really um good question.
So professionally, I had spent30 years in high-tech marketing.
Um, I worked for a really longtime, lots of different
companies.
I built things, I fixed things,I solved problems.
And, you know, I loved mycareer.
I put a lot of my identity intothe way I worked, the
relationships that Iestablished, the credibility
(04:17):
that I generated through mywork.
And what's funny though aboutthis book is I actually had this
book idea when I was 35.
So I was in the middle of mycareer and I had probably a few
different career crossroads,right?
Where you sort of get to acareer point and you can kind of
go left.
That's right, and kind of goright or you can go left.
And so I was 35 and I was sortof at a career crossroads.
(04:41):
I was a mom.
I had two, two of my three boysat that time.
I was in my marriage, you know,things were starting to shift
for me hormonally.
I didn't really know it 20years ago.
I don't think I knew whatperimenopause was for sure.
And I was, I was feeling justangsty and confused.
And I was looking around andI'm like, everybody seems to
(05:01):
have their stuff together.
It's got to be me.
I'm the crazy one.
I'm not grateful enough.
You know, the problem is me.
So I started to shape thisbook.
And I put everything that Ihad, ideas that I had, into a
red folder.
And lit literally andfiguratively, that folder got
buried.
So, you know, a lot, a lothappened for me career-wise,
(05:21):
personally, you know, in mypersonal life over that 20-year
period.
But after a 30-year marketingcareer, which is just obscene to
say, it's absurd to me, but um,I had the good fortune of
retiring.
And when I was cleaning out mydesk, I had a small pile right
on my desk of just stuff.
I found the folder, isbasically what happened.
And I opened it and I was like,well, look at that.
(05:41):
Turns out I still have a lot ofquestions.
Turns out I still feel at acrossroads.
Turns out some of the subjectsthat I thought I was so confused
about, I now am not, which isgood.
I learned something, but now Ihave a whole host of new things
that I'm confused about.
So, you know, I gave myself afew months to sort of decide:
(06:03):
can I write the book?
Should I write the book?
Who am I to think I could writea book?
I'm not a writer.
And the good news is that, youknow, I lived a lot of my life
with those talk tracks in myhead forever.
And now I'm at this age wherethey still creep in, but I can
short circuit them.
And I did.
And so I gave myself two monthsand then I decided, well, why
(06:23):
the hell not?
So I wrote the book.
Michele Folan (06:25):
Yeah, I think that's great.
You know, and and some peoplewait even longer.
So, you know, I think that'sthat's what's so funny about
this is that I mean, I know I'vehad guests on the show, they're
in their 60s and they finallysaid, I think I better write the
book, you know.
Angela Burk (06:41):
So I think I'm gonna write the book.
And it it was about doingsomething, and you know, you you
mentioned something about thequote that you saw, you know,
what would your 80-year-old selfgo back and and tell tell us
now?
You know, one of the reasonswhy write writing the book was
so important to me is, you know,I I say a lot of things to my
boys, right?
And I try to give them these,you know, little mantras or I
(07:03):
call them mantras and theselittle, you know, and they roll
their eyes for sure.
But I I want to think that theysink in.
But a couple of them, you know,and and and a lot of them have
to do with you don't just talkthe talk, you gotta walk your
talk.
And one of them is we finishwhat we start.
I love it.
And the second one is you'regonna be able to take a lot of
(07:24):
risks in life.
Always bet on yourself.
And so I realized that thatbeing able to show them that I
was gonna take this brave step,that I was gonna do something
that I had sat on for 20 years,that I was gonna finish
something that I started, andthat I was betting on myself was
really important to me.
So those were the other reasonswhy I decided to write the
(07:46):
book.
Are they proud of you?
Very proud of me.
Oh, I love that.
unknown (07:51):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (07:51):
Oh, that's it.
And you know, it's funnybecause there's a chapter in the
book, because I get very real.
So when I say that it's thereal girls' guide, a lot of it
is my stories, other women'sstories, and experts, but I get
very real.
So there's one chapter in thebook that talks about desire and
pleasure.
And I'll just say that, youknow, I'm very honest about my
own relationship with thosethings.
(08:13):
So in the chapter of the book,I have three warnings because,
in addition to me, you know, Iwas in a long-term marriage, I
divorced, I found new love whenI was in my mid-40s.
That brought on a whole new setof discoveries, but also
introduced four additionalchildren into our combined mix.
So in this one chapter, though,I have three warnings for the
children.
As, you know, in the offchance, they're gonna actually
(08:35):
pick up the book and read it.
Um, like, hey, you might wantto throw the book, just close it
and throw it.
In the middle, it's like, youknow, are you still here?
And then the end is like, ifyou children stuck this out,
you're gonna see a whole newversion of Angela and your
mother.
And all I can say is, you'rewelcome, because I am a whole
(08:56):
person.
And, you know, no apologies, notrying to sugarcoat it.
But if they stuck it out, it'slike, okay, hopefully this
serves you well later in life.
Michele Folan (09:05):
I don't know what to tell you.
Okay, I gotta back up because Ithink this is this is kind of
important.
I don't think our childrenreally see us as a whole person
until maybe they're adults.
And even then, I think itreally depends on how much you
let your kids see.
Because I know people that arevery reserved and don't let
(09:26):
their children see that wholeside of them.
Angela Burk (09:30):
And I think that's a shame.
I agree with you completely.
And here's why.
If I think about it, right?
And and many of us women, andalso men too, but I, you know,
I'm gonna come from theperspective of women.
We spend a lot of our lifeliving and acting by the stories
that other people tell about usor the stories we tell about
ourselves.
(09:50):
And most of those stories dealwith some amount of shrinking or
editing or keeping the peace orcarrying the load or not making
waves and being the small, thequiet, the steady, the
unflappable, the fixer, allthese things.
And what I am trying to do withmy boys in particular is sort
(10:12):
of say, like, look, you know,your mom spent the better part
of her life playing that part.
And what is happening to me nowis, you know, you kind of
talked about this concept ofediting.
And the way I sort of describeit is I had to edit myself for a
lot of years, right?
Because I was the one thateverybody turned to and relied
(10:32):
on and somehow told myself thatmy happiness could never come
first.
God forbid my happiness camefirst.
Everybody around me wouldsuffer.
That's a that's a messed upstory.
But I what I'm trying to modelfor my boys is, you know, we
teach people how to treat us.
And if we're gonna editourselves, like that's our
doing.
And I want my kids to see thatyes, I am their mom, but also I
(10:57):
am a happy version of Angelathat they didn't know when they
were younger and I was stillmarried, that their mother has
desires and wants and fears andyou know, pride in her
accomplishments.
She's embracing the discomfort,she's trying new things.
I just signed up for drumlessons, okay?
And my kids are like, uh, I'msorry, you're doing what I'm
(11:20):
like, I'm taking drum lessons.
And they're like, you knowwhat?
Cool.
Yeah.
And so I want them to see thatthere is an element of bravery
and risk that comes with beingyour whole person.
And I don't want them to haveto edit themselves.
You know, yeah, like you showup at work, and you know,
there's there's certain rolesthat we have to play for sure,
(11:41):
but I am a whole person here,and you know, and I'm not
apologetic about it.
Michele Folan (11:47):
Yeah.
I think this is this is sogreat because you're you're
what, 54?
55.
55.
Angela Burk (11:54):
And you're taking drum lessons.
I'm taking drum lessons.
I'm six weeks into it and I'mloving it.
And you know, like, do I havevisions of like, you know,
opening some concert?
No, but I'm really enjoying it.
Yeah, and I'm not doing it foranybody else.
I'm doing it for me.
unknown (12:12):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (12:13):
As as well, you should.
Yeah.
You open with welcome to thechaos club.
And is midlife chaotic becauseof hormones, or because we
finally stopped tolerating whatno longer fits?
Yes, and yes.I I think that itis so, you know, I don't know
(12:34):
about you, but I remember um,you know, being raised with this
idea of the midlife crisis,right?
Yeah.
You know, and I was, and my momand I are 19 years apart.
So we're quite close.
And I remember she was goingthrough some of these, these
periods of of transition forher.
And I, you know, being in my20s and she was in her 40s, and
(12:57):
I was like, ooh, that's old ladystuff.
Like I just wanted, I wanted tocreate so much distance from
myself and her and the conceptof midlife, or, you know, some
kind of impending doom that waslike coming and all these
changes that were happening.
I was like, oh my God, that'sso gross.
And so I think a lot of us areraised to fear, you know, and
(13:17):
and believe that this period oftime, and there's no magic.
It's not like you look atmidlife and go, oh, it's your
40s, or it's your 30s, or oh,it's your 50s.
It's there's no magic decade.
But I think, I think that it ischaotic.
Um, and it doesn't mean it's acrisis.
It doesn't mean you're fallingapart.
It doesn't mean that yourworld's gonna open up and
swallow you whole, but it meansthat a lot of things are
(13:39):
changing.
And yes, is it hormones?
100%.
Yes, is it because we'refinally becoming intolerant and
exhausted with having to carrythe loads and play the role that
we've been playing for decadesand decades?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'remaybe redefining what right or
normal looks like and feelslike?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'redealing with all the appearance
(14:02):
changes and all the things thatare like in turmoil?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because a lot ofthe roles that we used to have
are shifting?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'retrying to rediscover parts of
ourselves that have been lost?
Yes.
So you kind of keep adding it,yeah.
It's super chaotic.
But but chaos is like it's likethe word crisis.
(14:23):
Chaos is not bad.
Yeah.
It you know, and I I rememberback probably in my mid-40s, not
sleeping, you know, maybe maybelate 40s, not sleeping, and
just not and feeling reallyanxious at times.
(14:44):
And and I wish, I wish we knewat that time what all this was.
And we have a lot moreinformation now, yeah, than than
we ever have.
You know, the distinctionbetween perimenopause and
menopause and and all those bodychanges that come with it.
You know, there's what 30 or 40different symptoms of of
(15:05):
perimenopause and menopause?
I mean, come on, we didn't knowany of this stuff.
And, you know, you you say thatit's not it's not a hot flash,
it's a personality reboot, whichjust cracks me up.
But you you reframe thatnarrative completely.
What other changes in midlifedo women often get mislabeled?
Angela Burk (15:30):
I think we get a lot of changes mislabeled,
right?
I think even the, you know, ifI go back and look at my 40s,
we're probably the decade so farthat has been the most
change-filled because all thesethings were happening at one
time, right?
So we get mislabeled because,oh my gosh, like she's losing
her mind.
You know, she must be goingcrazy.
(15:51):
No.
Oh my gosh, like why, you know,she's complaining about her
marriage or she's complainingabout her kids, or she's
complaining about her job.
You know, she's never, she'sungrateful.
No.
Oh, you know, so you you kindof take all of these changes
that we're going through.
And it's very easy from thebecause it and and a lot of that
(16:12):
mislabeling starts with us.
I know if I go back and look atmy 40s, I had no idea how close
I was to actually becomingpost-menopausal when I was about
45.
I had no idea.
I divorced, and it wasn't likethis big dramatic divorce, but
we, you know, my my my kids' dadand I looked at each other,
both realized we could behappier.
(16:32):
And that's not how I wanted tolive.
I didn't want to model for myboys that the, you know, the
best relationship that youshould seek out is somebody who
looks at you and says, huh, Icould be happier someplace else.
Nah.
Again, another careercrossroads.
I took a massive career risk inchanging jobs.
And then the backdrop of allthat were the hormone stuff.
So it felt like I was losing mymind half the time.
(16:55):
And so I think, I think that alot of, you know, and when
you're in it, I believe that themislabeling, I was probably the
most guilty at mislabeling alot of this stuff because I
didn't, I didn't stop and lookat what was happening.
And I didn't have the knowledgeto say, man, those hormones are
really driving a lot of this.
Or, hey, you know, you're notsleeping and you're anxious.
(17:17):
Because I looked at that and Iwent, well, of course I'm
anxious and I'm not sleeping.
I'm working 14 hours a day.
I'm trying to establish myselfas a single mom.
I'm trying to make sure my boysare situated.
I'm worried about them.
I'm worried about, like, ofcourse I'm not sleeping.
So it was easy for me tojustify and rationalize all of
these things that I was feeling,in particular at that time, as
(17:38):
being um, you know, a symptom ofa circumstance.
And then I started, again, Iwas looking around and I'm like,
I'm not the only one goingthrough this stuff, but why does
everybody else seem to be sogood at this?
Michele Folan (17:49):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (17:49):
So then I must be the crazy one.
I must be the one that doesn'tknow how to do this right.
I must be the one that's doingit wrong.
And so it the mislabeling, Ibelieve, and it was kind of that
kind of belief was validatedthrough a lot of the women that
I spoke to for the book.
You know, yes, the outsideworld can mislabel all of this
stuff, but I think sometimeswe're the worst offenders.
Michele Folan (18:12):
Because we're so hard on ourselves.
Yeah, we are.
But you know, there is there isthis point that I think we get
to where we become more honest.
And I think that honesty canmake other people really
uncomfortable.
Oh, yeah.
Particularly our kids.
Because not sugarcoating thingsanymore.
(18:34):
Where it's you you worry lessabout you want to people to know
the truth and worry less abouthurting people's feelings
because they yeah.
Angela Burk (18:44):
I it is very uncomfortable.
I think honesty does rattlepeople, you know, and I think um
discomfort rattles people.
I think change rattles people.
I think different rattlespeople.
So when you, you know, whetherit's with your kids or your
partner or your boss or yourfriends or your family, when you
(19:05):
show up different, when youshow up with some attitude
changes, with you when you showup stripping away some of the
layers that they're so used toseeing that make them all
comfortable, it rattles people.
People don't like that.
unknown (19:18):
They don't.
Angela Burk (19:20):
People don't like it.
And then and then the backdropthough to all that is, and and
and you know, the science saysthis, right?
So some of the hormones thatare so prevalent in us when
we're in our 20s and 30s, youknow, when we're young and in
our 20s and 30s and 40s until weget to menopause, they're meant
to keep us soft, right?
They they're meant to keep usnurturing and you know huggable.
(19:43):
And so you you come at a lot ofthese circumstances with just
sheer exhaustion.
You come at it with a newrealization, you come at it with
brutal honesty, and thehormones that have kept you that
way are leaving the building.
It's like, of course you'regonna be different.
Like you're biologicallydifferent, you're chemically
(20:05):
different, and people don't likethat.
Michele Folan (20:07):
Oh, I yeah.
We're gonna continue thisconversation after the break.
Angela, we'll be right back.
Quick pause for a second.
If you've been listening tothis podcast and thinking, oh my
gosh, my friend needs to hearthis, don't keep it to yourself.
Seriously.
So many women out there aretrying to figure this stuff out
(20:27):
alone.
Health hormones, aging, all ofit.
And half the time we don't evenknow where to start.
That's exactly why I createdthis podcast.
So if something you've heardtoday resonated with you, send
it to a friend, a sister, yourworkout buddy, that woman you
were just talking to aboutperimenopause over coffee.
Because these conversations,they matter, and the more women
(20:51):
we bring into this space, thebetter we all get.
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
All right, we are back.
We've talked about hormones,and I think there is this
confusion about hormones andjust how much is just us getting
(21:11):
older, like what's how much isexistential, you know, this
whole change.
I mean, we our our libidochanges, our our vaginas change.
I mean, everything, everythingis changing.
How do we get women tounderstand about hormones that
might reduce shame andself-blame at this point in the
(21:36):
game?
Angela Burk (21:36):
I mean, you you you nailed a concept that I think
is really important here.
It is wired into us early onthat change, things that change
are a failure.
And with a failure, with this Ibelief, if if that's the belief
we hold that if somethingchanges, whether it's our libido
is changing, our appearance ischanging, our relationship is
(21:58):
changing, um, you know.
Our careers are changing,whatever it is, change equals
failure.
Failure comes with it shame,guilt, embarrassment, fear, all
these things.
And I think the only way thatwe can sort of, you, you, you
have to have the ability to sortof pause and go, okay,
something is different.
Different is not bad.
(22:18):
Different is just different.
And there is no need for me tofeel guilt and shame.
And like if I'm feeling thesethings, let me call them out.
But now what am I going to dodifferent?
And one of the things I will, Iwill, I'll share a story of
what happened with me.
So I was writing this book,right?
So I started writing in Aprilof 24.
I was like June, July, I waswriting the book.
(22:40):
And I also started a Substack.
I was interviewing experts forthe book, and I noticed I was
suffering from a libido change.
So my background is I, youknow, started perimenopause very
early.
I was in my late 30s.
I um entered menopause, kind ofbecame post-menopausal at 47.
So I thought I think a littleon the early side, and I raw dog
(23:00):
the entire thing.
So no hormones for me at anypoint.
So fast forward, I'm writingthis book, I'm talking to an
expert.
It's all about the time thatthe FDA did the uh panel
discussion on vaginal estrogencream and removing the black box
label.
I listened to that.
I've never done that before inmy life, a government panel,
never listened to that.
But I was talking to an expert,and all the while I was
(23:21):
noticing a libido change ofmyself.
And I couldn't talk to my manabout it because I didn't
understand what was happening.
He noticed it.
I noticed it.
And it was like a subject that,you know, we would kind of talk
about and he'd be like, Oh, isit is it a problem with us?
And I'm like, I know, and Idon't know what's happening, and
I don't really want to talkabout it.
And then at the same time, likemy bladder was changing.
(23:42):
So I was like, it just nothingfelt sexy.
And I couldn't even, I wasembarrassed.
Yeah, quite honestly.
So all of this is happening.
I talked to an expert, and youknow, we're sort of talking
about this the vaginal estrogencream, and I go to my doctor and
I'm telling her what'shappening, and she's like, you
know, it really sucks, doesn'tit?
And I thought that's the bestyou can.
And then she says to me, Sheknows that my partner lives in
(24:03):
Australia, I live in California.
And she says to me, I think youand your man need to go on more
dates.
Oh.
And I'm like, uh, you do knowwe don't live in the same
country.
So, and I and I promise thisstory is gonna wrap up.
But at about the same time, Istarted reading Miranda July's
book, All Fours.
Fictional book, kind of smuddy.
I loved it.
My partner happened to be inCalifornia at that time.
(24:24):
He started reading it.
We like to read the same books.
He has to fly to London, andI'm ahead of him in the book.
But there's a chart in thisbook, okay?
And the chart is, it's afictional book, I just want to
preface this.
And the chart is it's gotestrogen and testosterone, men
and women, by decade, and itplots the levels of these
(24:44):
hormones.
And basically, what it shows iswomen have a plummet of
estrogen, usually right around45.
We have very littletestosterone, and even that
plummet, where men they havemore of these hormones, and that
their decline is really likethis little meandering, little
slow, steady, quiet, calm.
(25:04):
So my man gets off the plane,he calls me from the Arrowbridge
and he says to me, Did you getto the chart?
And I said, Well, I'm past thechart.
He says, Babe, I am so sorry.
Because that chart explained tohim why I was suffering and why
my libido changed.
And it gave me the ability totalk to him in a way that I
(25:25):
couldn't talk to him before.
And it also prompted me to gotalk to a doctor.
I got uh uh started onhormones, and things are better.
They're not like, you know,it's not sexy time, fun time all
the time, but things arebetter.
But the long and short of it islike there is so much confusion
and guilt and shame andembarrassment that come with
(25:47):
even a libido change.
Yeah.
And then you you try to seekout help and you get the
gaslighting and the oh, you youand your partner need to go on
more dates.
But and it's why and I had tofind language for this in a
fictional book.
Yeah.
But but I did.
Michele Folan (26:00):
Yeah.
You know, I think some of this,some of this is a choice.
Like if you if you decide thatit's not that important to you
that you don't want to get thehelp, that's I think that's a
choice.
And I think some women it's achoice, some women decide to do
that.
I felt the need to get helpwith my hormones because I I I
(26:22):
was missing that in my life.
And I, Angela, this isinteresting.
So I interviewed a functionalmedicine integrative health
doctor, and we were talkingabout vaginal estrogen, but he
said, you know, what what womenoften forget is that a lot of
their external sex organs,clitoris labia, is they're
(26:45):
they're the same tissue that athat a penis is, yeah, and that
it's made of testosterone, andthat we need that testosterone
not just for libido, but for ourhealth of our sexual, sexual
organs, yeah, external ones.
And I was like, uh, no one'sever really brought that up to
(27:07):
me before on the podcast, but Ijust thought that was
interesting.
So it's not just estrogen.
We got to pay attention totestosterone and progesterone,
but 100% we could talk aboutthat all day.
Angela Burk (27:19):
We could, but one of the things I also want to
draw out about what you said is,you know, it is a choice,
right?
And the choice is ours.
So take libido, take yourappearance, take a decision to
take drums or not take drums.
Here's the thing we're finallyat a point in life where for
many of us, the attention thatwe used to put out to other
(27:43):
things and other people andother places is now, for very
real reasons, starting to turninward.
So I was talking to somebodythe other day about, you know,
the appearance changes.
And they're they're jarring.
I at least for me, theappearance changes were jarring
because I wasn't prepared,right?
And I just felt like theinjustices just don't stop for
(28:05):
us.
So it's like every daysomething changes.
And then this person sort ofjudged me a little bit about
wanting to get microneedling andyes, I've dabbled in Botox and
all these things.
It's like, you know what, holdthe phone.
The choice is mine, and I don'towe you an explanation, and I
don't have to justify it, andI'm not asking for permission.
And so take that same mindsetand apply it to appearance.
(28:29):
I had another conversation witha girlfriend, this was during
my time of writing the book,about trucker hats.
I show up to her house wearinga trucker hat.
I love them.
And she's like, ew, you know, atrucker hat.
We're too old for that.
I think you need a full brimsituation.
And I was like, uh, what?
Excuse me.
So I've taken it now.
(28:49):
It is my personal mission.
Every time I see her, I wear abrand new trucker hat.
But, you know, if I want towear a bikini to the beach, I'm
gonna wear a bikini to thebeach.
If I want to wear a ratty oldsweatshirt and my pajama pants
to go to Target, guess what I'mwearing?
But it's it's the mindset thatsays the choice is mine.
Michele Folan (29:08):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (29:08):
And I don't apologize, I don't ask for
permission, I don't wait forvalidation, the choice is mine.
And that I think is also atheme that is emerging for a lot
of us women in our in ourmidlife, whether it's your 30s,
and that's it starts to brewthere.
40s, it kind of starts like theit's kind of coming to a slow
(29:29):
boil.
Our 50s, we're boiling, and itcarries forward into our 60s and
70s and 80s because of thechoices we're making now.
Michele Folan (29:37):
You know, your your comment about wearing the
ratty sweatshirt and sweatpantsto Target, I probably wouldn't
have done that 10 years ago, butI would do that now.
Because I don't give an F whatpeople think.
Angela Burk (29:52):
Because I don't give an F.
I wouldn't have done it in my20s and 30s, no.
But now I don't give an F whatpeople think.
Yeah.
You know, and one of the otherthings that again, I think that,
you know, the universe just hasa way of connecting all these
dots for us in many ways.
The oldest real girl that Ispoke to in the book, I
interviewed her, uh, she's inshe's 82.
(30:12):
She wrote her first book whenshe was in her late 70s, and it
was a book about grief becauseshe had lost her second husband.
And she decided that she wasgoing to write a book in her
late 70s about the grievingprocess.
And through that process, shealso began to write poetry.
So she's working on a secondbook of poetry.
However, so I'm talking to herand I interview her for the
(30:32):
book, and the last and she wenton to find new love at at 80.
Um, and I said, What's been themost surprising thing about
finding love at this age?
And basically she said that theparts still work and I like it.
And I thought, okay, that wasthat was another, it was right
about the time of this wholelibido thing for me.
And that was another point intime where the choice, it would,
(30:54):
it reaffirmed this idea thatthe choice is mine to make.
So if I'm unsatisfied with mylibido, if I don't want to be in
my 60s and 70s and 80s withthat out of my life, that hey,
if if I make a choice that saysI'm I'm good without it, again,
I don't owe anybody anexplanation, but I don't want
that for myself.
(31:15):
So I'm going to choose to fixit.
Yeah.
Equally as somebody whodecides, ah, I'm good.
Yeah.
And that's okay too.
But it's the I don't, I don'towe the world an apology.
I don't owe the world anexplanation.
And I don't need to seekpermission.
Michele Folan (31:30):
You know, you brought up grief, and that was
one of my questions in grievingwho you were and loving who you
are.
You speak honestly aboutidentity loss.
What version of yourself didyou personally have to grieve?
Angela Burk (31:49):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and look, likelet's just grief comes from a
lot of a lot of dimensions,right?
You can grieve marriages, um,you can grieve old identities,
you can grieve the noise of abusy household, you can grieve
the life that you thought youwere gonna have.
And for me, I think I did.
I I sort of envisioned my life.
(32:10):
You know, I I I believed in my20s I wasn't gonna get married.
I didn't really want to havekids.
And then I met a man, I waslike, oh, I can get married, and
kid things sounds really good.
And I sort of projected how,like, you know, what what was my
life gonna be like um at 50 and60 and 70 and 80?
And when we made the decisionto divorce, I that was a loss,
(32:33):
right?
This I idea of who I was goingto be and the life I was gonna
have.
And yeah, it I agreed that.
And yet what I what I realizedwas, you know, the the further
that I tried to push that away,or the um the the longer I took
to just acknowledge how I wasfeeling, the the longer it took
(32:56):
for me to get to acceptance.
So, you know, I had toacknowledge I feel sad about
this thing.
And that kind of moved me toacceptance.
And then I sort of needed toshift my mindset in a way that
says, you know, grief or changeis not a failure.
You know, I don't look at mymarriage and consider it a
failure.
I don't.
I look at that time and Ithink, hey, something wasn't
(33:20):
working.
I'm going to embrace a newdefinition of right.
There's no one way to do this.
I'm gonna embrace a newdefinition of what right looks
like for me.
And yes, I can feel sad aboutthat.
Yes, I could grieve the idea ofthe life I thought I was gonna
have, but now it is not afailure.
And I'm taking action, even asmall step forward to something
(33:43):
new is liberate.
And I believed at that timethat good things come from
change.
Good things come from doingsomething different.
I didn't know what it was gonnalook like, but I believed that
at my core.
Um, but it was, you know, andeven now, even the identity
thing, like I I'm noticing myhair is thinning, which is just
(34:05):
like again, the injustices.
Are you for real?
Yeah, let's just add that oneto the list.
Just add it to the list.
And I, you know, not that Iever had this thick, voluminous
hair, but you know, and I I I'mlucky because I have the curls,
so it kind of can disguise someof the the thinning.
But it's you know, I I I likedmy hair when it was a little bit
(34:29):
more volume.
Yeah.
And it makes me sad.
It's like, you know, I see toomuch.
And then my my kid, my15-year-old's like, Mom, I can
see a little scalp here.
And it's like, thanks, buddy.
That makes me sad, right?
But it's, you know, it's not afailure.
I'm not failing.
And if I decide that I'm nothappy with it, I will make a
change.
But that's on me.
Like I get to decide to dothat.
Michele Folan (34:50):
Yeah, and I think it's important to point out
too, we don't have to have griefor have those feelings to feel
like we want to step into amidlife expansion, right?
Angela Burk (35:01):
No.
Michele Folan (35:02):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (35:02):
Not at all.
Not at all.
But I do think, you know, if Ilook back at different points of
my life, there were times thesigns were there, right?
If I look back at differentpoints in my life, it might have
been, you know, the other thingthat I really work on a lot is
saying no, because my patternwas always I have to say no with
like an essay or some sort ofdissertation.
And it's like, I'm notavailable.
(35:24):
That's three words.
Like that's kind of all I oweanybody.
But um, you know, I think, Ithink that if I look back, you
know, the signs were there thatsomething in me was shifting.
You know, I would say yes tothings I wanted to say no to.
It's no wonder I was constantlytired.
Or, you know, looking back, Icould start to see nothing
(35:46):
dramatic or tragic, but I couldstart to see that I slowly
wasn't recognizing myself in myown life.
Or a lot of the traits that Ifeel I have that I really love,
I'm persistent, I'm resilient,I'm all these things, I those
were disappearing.
Like I didn't really see me inthe same way.
And those, if I if I justquieted my life and I started to
(36:07):
see those things, I think thesigns are there.
But for many of us, we ignorethe signs or we don't give
ourselves the quiet to justnotice them.
And that, you know, and I and Ifirmly believe that this whole
transition that many of us areon, it's not about blowing up
your whole life.
And you don't have to have aperfect plan for everything.
But if you give yourself theability to just quiet the noise
(36:31):
and look for the signs, and ifthere are the signs are there
and you're going, yeah, youknow, why am I saying yes to so
many things I really want to sayno to?
Michele Folan (36:40):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (36:40):
Okay, acknowledging that and then saying what you
need out loud, even if it's toyourself, that changes the your
thought pattern and your actionpattern.
But if I'm honest, I think alot of the signs were there in
my 30s and in my 40s, but I justdidn't pay attention to them.
Michele Folan (36:58):
Yeah, you you said that you've always felt
like you had to have this longdissertation whenever you were
would say no to something.
And I think we we tend to dothat.
We're like, well, I'm reallytired and I gotta, I gotta get
up early in the morning, andit's just been a rough week, and
I really don't think I shouldgo.
And instead of just saying,hey, it really just doesn't work
for me tonight.
I'm gonna make a I'm gonna takea pass.
Angela Burk (37:21):
Yeah.
Or the other one, asking forrest.
It's for me, I thought the ideaof asking for rest, and I'm so
sorry, like I've noticed thisnew wave of menopause.
Everything, every orifice thatI have is now dry.
My nose gets so itchy.
So I'm scratching my nosebecause it's so itchy.
But um, you know, it's thisidea of asking for rest and
saying, I'm tired.
(37:42):
Like somehow I view that as aweakness.
But there are days like Ireally work on, I actively work
on this practice.
And it like if I'm this is howit plays out.
I'm going about my day and I'mlike, man, I'll say it out loud.
I'm really tired.
I need a nap.
Nobody's home.
But I say it out loud to myselfbecause that breaks the thought
(38:02):
pattern, right?
Yep.
And then what am I gonna dowith that?
Well, I'm gonna go sit down andI'm gonna take a rest.
If I'm not available, that's agood way.
I I use that, that's threewords to say no.
Yeah.
If I'm not available, I need abreak, four words.
I disagree.
You know, I can't tell you howmany times in a corporate
(38:22):
setting I'd be sitting inmeetings and I would be
listening to these executivesargue a point and I could see
the solution so clearly in myhead, or I could see the the
seven risks that their solutionpresented, but I'd sit back on
that on my opinion because I'mlike, who am I to think I could
say it?
They're not gonna listen to me.
I'm too junior.
Um, I disagree.
(38:44):
That's two words.
Michele Folan (38:45):
Yep, yep.
And I'm telling you, I I turned62 this week.
Oh, happy birthday.
Thank you.
And I love being in my 60sbecause I now have balls that I
didn't have in my 40s, and Idon't stay quiet any longer.
unknown (39:08):
No.
Michele Folan (39:08):
And it's way more fun.
Angela Burk (39:11):
It's way more fun, and that's the thing.
Like, it doesn't have to startwith this big, you know, massive
declaration or this massiveplan or this massive set of
changes.
It can start with a simplesentence, right?
Deciding, you know, deciding,hey, I'm gonna practice saying
no to things.
Okay, cool.
This week, make a commitment toyourself.
(39:32):
If something comes up that youwant to say no to, in when it
comes up to yourself, say outloud, I don't want to do this.
That alone is huge because it'sgonna interrupt your thought
pattern.
Then practice some response.
I'm not available.
Three words.
Yeah, I can't make it, fourwords.
(39:55):
The other thing that I had tostart doing was like, if
somebody would ask me to dosomething, it'd be like, I don't
want to do that thing, buthere's what I can do.
Here's what I can do.
Five words.
That's it.
Yeah.
And it's a sentence.
It's not a big, you're notblowing up your life, you're not
going out and spending a youknow, $90,000 on a midlife
crisis car, you're not, youknow, uh making an appointment
(40:18):
for a massive, you know,full-plane facelift.
You're starting with asentence.
Michele Folan (40:22):
Yeah, and I think it's it's what it is, it's just
prioritizing yourself.
It doesn't prioritizingyourself doesn't cost doesn't
have to cost money.
It really doesn't.
But I will say that many of mylisteners are actively.
They're prioritizing strength,the mobility, they're really
looking at long-term health andlongevity.
(40:42):
In your view, how does physicalstrength intersect with that
emotional confidence in midlife?
Angela Burk (40:50):
It's I think that they go hand in hand.
Michele Folan (40:53):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (40:53):
Our mind and our body are completely connected,
right?
And when we make decisions toalter our mindset and our
psychology and our our behaviorfollows.
So for me, you know, take theI've always been, I'll give you
a great example.
I've always been a very activeperson, but I distanced myself
from things like weightliftingand strength training for a long
(41:15):
time.
I wish I wouldn't have.
I wish I would have embracedthose things earlier because the
benefits are so proven.
But I think the other thingthat happens though is when we
start, because I know a lot ofwomen, and I did it too when I
was in my 20s and 30s, and youhave these young kids, and I
can't take time to go to thegym.
I can't take time to work out.
I'm not gonna, you know, Idon't have time to make these
(41:37):
glorious nutrient-filled meals,three meals a day for, you know,
five different people in myhousehold because nobody likes
the same thing.
Like I certainly can'tprioritize these things that are
gonna give me longevity becausesomebody else would suffer.
And I think that the mindsetshift that we're seeing a lot of
women in our age bracket makeis it's it's that whole
(41:58):
proverbial, you put your mask onfirst before you you put others
on in an airplane, right?
When the mind gets right, ourbehavior changes.
And the link between our mindand our desires to then how we
physically behave, to then howwe act is there.
And when we start puttingourselves first and we start
(42:19):
believing that our wants and ourdesires should come first, our
actions will follow.
And whether that's prioritizingyour health, prioritizing your
the medical care you're givingyourself, um, whether it's
prioritizing rest or exercise ornutrition over keeping
everybody else satisfied, likeyou're putting your mask on
(42:39):
first.
And I it it I think where wesometimes fall is when we're
only paying attention to thepsychology and the behaviors not
following, or we only payattention to the behavior, but
our mindset hasn't shifted.
So to me, that mind-body linkis essential.
Michele Folan (42:54):
Yeah, and I I do believe that reclaiming your
body at this stage in life isreclaiming your voice.
Absolutely.
Because so much of ourself-confidence is in how we
feel about our bodies.
And if you take that time tostart reclaiming that, I think
(43:16):
it it does give you more of avoice.
Like you feel that you'vereally got like control of
things more.
Angela Burk (43:25):
That's the thing.
I think what it does is itgives you control, it gives you
strength, right?
When you when you're physicallystrong, right?
And you're physically strongand you're physically rested and
you're physically caring forthis vehicle that is your body,
you emotionally can manage andregulate so much better, right?
And and when you feel thesethings, and I know for me, I
(43:48):
feel more competent.
I feel more solid, I feel moresecure when my body feels solid
and competent and secure.
And when I'm doing the thingsto take.
Care of that, I'm inherentlyputting myself first on the
list.
And by doing that, it justchanges my outlook, right?
I'm I'm then viewing myselfdifferently.
I view my place in the worlddifferently.
(44:11):
I view um what I expect fromothers differently because I'm
caring for myself.
So if I'm, you know, and Ithink the inverse is true too.
Like if I look back in my 30s,I was so focused on giving
attention to everybody elsebecause I felt like I had to,
that I didn't turn it to myself.
But the minute I startedturning attention back to
myself, whether it wasemotionally, spiritually,
(44:32):
physically, I then became apriority in my own life.
And as silly as that sounds,that shift had to happen.
And then caring for my body,caring for my nutrition meant
that I was stronger.
I was physically stronger.
And when I felt physicallystronger, it was like I then am
taking up more space in myphysical life, in my emotional
(44:55):
life, in my spiritual life, inmy um, in every part of my life,
really.
So these things just sort of, Ithink, go hand in hand.
And I think you're absolutelyright.
The we can't undervalue thetaking care of our physical
needs.
Michele Folan (45:08):
Right.
Yeah.
So important.
So if if a woman listeningright now feels stuck, where
does she begin?
Angela Burk (45:16):
Yeah, it's it's a really um, really good question.
One of the things in my book Italk about is um I end the book
with this concept of amanifesto.
And it's it's, you know, forme, it's kind of about how we
can adapt and start prioritizingour own needs.
So and I did this myself, is,you know, it it's you can start
(45:41):
with one simple thing, and thatis evaluate, just pause and
think of one thing that you'dlike to be done carrying and one
thing that you'd like toreclaim.
That becomes a person, andwrite it down, physically write
it down.
That becomes a personalcontract to your to yourself.
So is there something that youwant to let go of, a belief, a
habit, an expectation?
(46:02):
And is there something that youwant to begin, that you want to
stand in, that you want toembrace?
Write those things down.
And that shift alone, just thevirtue of thinking of one thing
in each of those categories andphysically writing it down could
change everything.
And I, and that doesn't taketime.
It doesn't take money, itdoesn't take a lot of attention.
(46:24):
It just takes a focus onyourself.
Michele Folan (46:27):
Yeah.
I think that's a great place tostart.
It's so simple.
So simple.
It it it's not it's not a wholevision board or something like
that.
It's not a vision board.
Angela Burk (46:36):
It's just one thing.
Like for me, you know, I um thething that I've been working on
a lot is, you know, because Iwas sort of raised with this
belief that I was, um, you know,I was the peacekeeper, I was
the the load carrier, I was theproblem, the problem fixer, I
was the solution person.
And I had to realize that thatbelief about myself kind of
(47:00):
railroaded my life in a lot ofways that I feel like I didn't
fully control.
So I'm really trying to unwindfrom that.
And the thing that I'm startingto embrace is this idea of just
saying no.
I don't need to explain myself.
And so those are the thingsthat I've written down, and
those are the things that I holdas a contract to myself.
(47:20):
You know, so when I feel thepull toward fixing somebody's
problem, when I feel the pulltoward having to be responsible
for like the emotionalregulation of everybody around
me, I stop.
Yeah.
I go, okay, what am I doing?
Love it.
Or when I feel the pull, likeall of a sudden I'm like saying
yes to something that I reallydon't want to do, it's like
(47:41):
something in my body's changing.
Like, usually I get kind of nota pit in my stomach, but my
stomach kind of starts to turn alittle bit and I feel like
heaviness in my chest.
And it's like, wait, I think Ijust said yes to something I
didn't want to do.
Like, uh, what's going on?
I need to tune into likesomething's wrong.
And then it's like, okay, whatam I gonna do?
Well, I'm gonna say no.
Yeah, I'm not available.
Three words.
(48:02):
Yep, I love it.
And those are big, massivechanges, right?
No, no, but they're importantones.
Michele Folan (48:08):
It's just really about being true to ourselves.
So I think that's it.
Great advice.
What's one thing you wish youknew when you first entered
midlife?
Angela Burk (48:17):
Oh man, you're gonna ask me to pick one thing.
Okay, I'm gonna answer this,but I'm gonna say a couple
things.
I wish that I would have knownthat it's it was never a midlife
crisis.
It was just about clarity.
I wish that I would havebelieved at the times when I was
going through a lot of thechange, I was never falling
apart.
Because there were times whereI felt like I was.
I really wasn't.
(48:38):
I wish that somebody would havetold me that my body was gonna
change a whole lot faster uhthan my mindset.
Because man, some of thosechanges hit hard and they're
furious.
I wish I I wish, you know, alot of those old stories that
either people had written aboutme or I had written about
myself, I wish I would havereally challenged those earlier.
(48:59):
It's not too late.
No, no, and I'm doing that now,but but I I do wish I would
have challenged those a littlebit earlier.
But I think, and and you're notalone.
And also you're not crazy.
Yeah.
Michele Folan (49:13):
Yeah, those are all great.
Yeah.
Angela Burk (49:15):
What's next for you?
Well, um, so the book is out.
I'm working on a companion booknow, which will be out in the
spring.
So that's very exciting.
I write for my substack.
Um, so Real Girls Guide toMidlife.com.
I write like three things aweek, um, which is really fun.
And yeah, um, you know, justgetting to meet amazing women
like you and have these amazingconversations.
(49:36):
I just hope to be doing more ofthat.
And yeah, and more drumlessons.
Yeah, and more drum lessons.
Michele Folan (49:41):
Yeah.
That's so fun.
I love it.
Yeah.
And then finally, this is I askall my all my guests this.
So we're gonna strip away allthe buzzwords.
What is one self-care,non-negotiable, you protect at
this stage of life, even when itcould disappoint others?
Angela Burk (50:02):
It's sleep, honestly.
When I'm tired, I go to bed.
And if that means that, youknow, somebody doesn't get to do
something that they want to do.
I last night is a really goodexample.
My son at eight o'clock lastnight, I had just flown in from
Atlanta.
I gave a workshop based on atheme of my book at a at a
company.
So I flew in from Atlanta, Iwas exhausted.
So I'm on East Coast time.
(50:22):
I was up from like 2:30 a.m.
Pacific time, and it's now 8a.m.
Pacific time.
And my son's like, mom, Ireally need to go to Target.
I need to get something.
And I said no.
And he's like, but but but andI said no.
I said, look, uh this isn'turgent for you.
And I'm tired and I'm not doingit, and I'm going to bed now.
Yeah.
(50:42):
And that's all I said.
Yeah.
Don't have to make a bunch ofexcuses.
I don't.
I don't.
Oh, and he was like, but and Icould tell he was disappointed,
but so for me it's rest.
Yeah.
It's rest and sleep.
Michele Folan (50:56):
Sleep is becoming one of the more commonly stated
non-negotiables that I'mhearing from my guests.
So I think we're all startingto really, you know, understand
that we aren't our best selveswhen we don't get enough sleep.
Period.
End of story.
Angela Burk (51:14):
Oh, and we never were.
And I think like for when wewere younger, we could, I know
for me and a lot of the womenthat I talked to in the book, it
was easy to justify lack ofsleep.
Kids are young, everybody'ssick, I'm working, I'm this, I'm
that, I'm having a, you know,I'm trying to be the best mom
and the best wife and the best,you know, career woman and the
best, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
(51:34):
And you could kind of go, ofcourse I'm not sleeping.
Like, yeah, you know, Iremember my mom used to say, you
know, I'll sleep when I'm dead.
And it's like, no, that'sactually not.
And I think we're also gettingsmart and we understand that our
ability to be strong and ourability to exercise and take
good care of ourselves ispredicated on being rested.
And we're we're now becomingmore educated on the power of
(51:56):
rest and sleep on things likeour health and longevity.
So, you know, I think we'rejust getting smarter about it.
But I know I I could easilylike I can get by on, you know,
four hours sleep and four cupsof coffee a day, and
everything's gonna be fine.
And now it's like, uh-uh.
I'm not, I'm not trading thatanymore.
Michele Folan (52:13):
Nope.
Nope.
I agree.
And now we're on the same page.
Love it.
Angela Burke, where can thelisteners find the real girls
guide to midlife and you and therest of your work?
Angela Burk (52:26):
Oh, that's such a great question.
Um, so Real Girls Guide toMidlife is on Amazon, Barnes and
Noble, all the places that youlove to buy your books.
I write on Substacks, so youcould go to Real Girls Guide to
Midlife.com.
Um, you subscribe by putting inan email address.
It's very low risk and not alot of effort.
I'm on Instagram at RealGirlsGuide55.
I post really cringy reels andtry to keep up on Instagram.
(52:50):
The socials are just superscary for me and very
uncomfortable.
But yeah, that's where you canfind me.
Michele Folan (52:55):
Wonderful.
Angela Burke, good luck withthe companion book this spring.
Thank you.
And uh we really appreciate youbeing here today.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Before you go, thank you forbeing here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
(53:19):
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
The information shared on this podcast is for
educational purposes only andshould not be considered medical
advice.
Please consult a qualifiedhealthcare professional
regarding your individual healthneeds.
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Health, wellness, fitness, andeverything in between, we're
(01:36):
removing the taboo from whatreally matters in midlife.
If you've reached your 50s or60s, and life feels quieter than
you imagined, the kids aregrown, the calendar isn't as
(01:58):
chaotic, work life feelsroutine, and somewhere in the
back of your mind, a littlevoice is asking, Is this all
there is?
I saw something last week thatstopped me.
It suggested taking a moment toimagine your 80-year-old self
looking back at you right nowand asking her, What do you wish
(02:19):
I'd been brave enough to do?
What risk should I take?
Which dreams are still worthchasing?
That hit me really hard becausemidlife isn't the closing
chapter.
It's the editing phase, it'sthe revision, it's where we
decide whether we're going toshrink or expand.
(02:40):
And that's exactly why I'm soexcited for today's
conversation.
Angela Burke, author of TheReal Girl's Guide to Midlife,
isn't talking about crisis.
She's talking about awakening,about chaos, about personality
reboots and grieving who youwere and choosing who you're
(03:00):
becoming.
This isn't about chasing your30-year-old body.
It's about building the womanyour 80-year-old self will thank
you for becoming.
Angela Burke, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Angela Burk (03:12):
Thank you so much for having me.
What an introduction.
Michele Folan (03:14):
Well, thank you.
Thanks.
I I really was looking forwardto this conversation for a lot
of reasons.
But last week, when I saw thatquote about imagining you being
your 80-year-old self, it reallyhit home because what does that
80-year-old person really wishwe were doing at this phase of
(03:38):
life?
So good, good segue into thisconversation, I think.
And I want to talk about you alittle bit before your wonderful
book, The Real Girl's Guide toMidlife.
Who were you professionally andwhat were you building then?
Angela Burk (03:56):
Yeah.
It's a really um good question.
So professionally, I had spent30 years in high-tech marketing.
Um, I worked for a really longtime, lots of different
companies.
I built things, I fixed things,I solved problems.
And, you know, I loved mycareer.
I put a lot of my identity intothe way I worked, the
relationships that Iestablished, the credibility
(04:17):
that I generated through mywork.
And what's funny though aboutthis book is I actually had this
book idea when I was 35.
So I was in the middle of mycareer and I had probably a few
different career crossroads,right?
Where you sort of get to acareer point and you can kind of
go left.
That's right, and kind of goright or you can go left.
And so I was 35 and I was sortof at a career crossroads.
(04:41):
I was a mom.
I had two, two of my three boysat that time.
I was in my marriage, you know,things were starting to shift
for me hormonally.
I didn't really know it 20years ago.
I don't think I knew whatperimenopause was for sure.
And I was, I was feeling justangsty and confused.
And I was looking around andI'm like, everybody seems to
(05:01):
have their stuff together.
It's got to be me.
I'm the crazy one.
I'm not grateful enough.
You know, the problem is me.
So I started to shape thisbook.
And I put everything that Ihad, ideas that I had, into a
red folder.
And lit literally andfiguratively, that folder got
buried.
So, you know, a lot, a lothappened for me career-wise,
(05:21):
personally, you know, in mypersonal life over that 20-year
period.
But after a 30-year marketingcareer, which is just obscene to
say, it's absurd to me, but um,I had the good fortune of
retiring.
And when I was cleaning out mydesk, I had a small pile right
on my desk of just stuff.
I found the folder, isbasically what happened.
And I opened it and I was like,well, look at that.
(05:41):
Turns out I still have a lot ofquestions.
Turns out I still feel at acrossroads.
Turns out some of the subjectsthat I thought I was so confused
about, I now am not, which isgood.
I learned something, but now Ihave a whole host of new things
that I'm confused about.
So, you know, I gave myself afew months to sort of decide:
(06:03):
can I write the book?
Should I write the book?
Who am I to think I could writea book?
I'm not a writer.
And the good news is that, youknow, I lived a lot of my life
with those talk tracks in myhead forever.
And now I'm at this age wherethey still creep in, but I can
short circuit them.
And I did.
And so I gave myself two monthsand then I decided, well, why
(06:23):
the hell not?
So I wrote the book.
Michele Folan (06:25):
Yeah, I think that's great.
You know, and and some peoplewait even longer.
So, you know, I think that'sthat's what's so funny about
this is that I mean, I know I'vehad guests on the show, they're
in their 60s and they finallysaid, I think I better write the
book, you know.
Angela Burk (06:41):
So I think I'm gonna write the book.
And it it was about doingsomething, and you know, you you
mentioned something about thequote that you saw, you know,
what would your 80-year-old selfgo back and and tell tell us
now?
You know, one of the reasonswhy write writing the book was
so important to me is, you know,I I say a lot of things to my
boys, right?
And I try to give them these,you know, little mantras or I
(07:03):
call them mantras and theselittle, you know, and they roll
their eyes for sure.
But I I want to think that theysink in.
But a couple of them, you know,and and and a lot of them have
to do with you don't just talkthe talk, you gotta walk your
talk.
And one of them is we finishwhat we start.
I love it.
And the second one is you'regonna be able to take a lot of
(07:24):
risks in life.
Always bet on yourself.
And so I realized that thatbeing able to show them that I
was gonna take this brave step,that I was gonna do something
that I had sat on for 20 years,that I was gonna finish
something that I started, andthat I was betting on myself was
really important to me.
So those were the other reasonswhy I decided to write the
(07:46):
book.
Are they proud of you?
Very proud of me.
Oh, I love that.
unknown (07:51):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (07:51):
Oh, that's it.
And you know, it's funnybecause there's a chapter in the
book, because I get very real.
So when I say that it's thereal girls' guide, a lot of it
is my stories, other women'sstories, and experts, but I get
very real.
So there's one chapter in thebook that talks about desire and
pleasure.
And I'll just say that, youknow, I'm very honest about my
own relationship with thosethings.
(08:13):
So in the chapter of the book,I have three warnings because,
in addition to me, you know, Iwas in a long-term marriage, I
divorced, I found new love whenI was in my mid-40s.
That brought on a whole new setof discoveries, but also
introduced four additionalchildren into our combined mix.
So in this one chapter, though,I have three warnings for the
children.
As, you know, in the offchance, they're gonna actually
(08:35):
pick up the book and read it.
Um, like, hey, you might wantto throw the book, just close it
and throw it.
In the middle, it's like, youknow, are you still here?
And then the end is like, ifyou children stuck this out,
you're gonna see a whole newversion of Angela and your
mother.
And all I can say is, you'rewelcome, because I am a whole
(08:56):
person.
And, you know, no apologies, notrying to sugarcoat it.
But if they stuck it out, it'slike, okay, hopefully this
serves you well later in life.
Michele Folan (09:05):
I don't know what to tell you.
Okay, I gotta back up because Ithink this is this is kind of
important.
I don't think our childrenreally see us as a whole person
until maybe they're adults.
And even then, I think itreally depends on how much you
let your kids see.
Because I know people that arevery reserved and don't let
(09:26):
their children see that wholeside of them.
Angela Burk (09:30):
And I think that's a shame.
I agree with you completely.
And here's why.
If I think about it, right?
And and many of us women, andalso men too, but I, you know,
I'm gonna come from theperspective of women.
We spend a lot of our lifeliving and acting by the stories
that other people tell about usor the stories we tell about
ourselves.
(09:50):
And most of those stories dealwith some amount of shrinking or
editing or keeping the peace orcarrying the load or not making
waves and being the small, thequiet, the steady, the
unflappable, the fixer, allthese things.
And what I am trying to do withmy boys in particular is sort
(10:12):
of say, like, look, you know,your mom spent the better part
of her life playing that part.
And what is happening to me nowis, you know, you kind of
talked about this concept ofediting.
And the way I sort of describeit is I had to edit myself for a
lot of years, right?
Because I was the one thateverybody turned to and relied
(10:32):
on and somehow told myself thatmy happiness could never come
first.
God forbid my happiness camefirst.
Everybody around me wouldsuffer.
That's a that's a messed upstory.
But I what I'm trying to modelfor my boys is, you know, we
teach people how to treat us.
And if we're gonna editourselves, like that's our
doing.
And I want my kids to see thatyes, I am their mom, but also I
(10:57):
am a happy version of Angelathat they didn't know when they
were younger and I was stillmarried, that their mother has
desires and wants and fears andyou know, pride in her
accomplishments.
She's embracing the discomfort,she's trying new things.
I just signed up for drumlessons, okay?
And my kids are like, uh, I'msorry, you're doing what I'm
(11:20):
like, I'm taking drum lessons.
And they're like, you knowwhat?
Cool.
Yeah.
And so I want them to see thatthere is an element of bravery
and risk that comes with beingyour whole person.
And I don't want them to haveto edit themselves.
You know, yeah, like you showup at work, and you know,
there's there's certain rolesthat we have to play for sure,
(11:41):
but I am a whole person here,and you know, and I'm not
apologetic about it.
Michele Folan (11:47):
Yeah.
I think this is this is sogreat because you're you're
what, 54?
55.
55.
Angela Burk (11:54):
And you're taking drum lessons.
I'm taking drum lessons.
I'm six weeks into it and I'mloving it.
And you know, like, do I havevisions of like, you know,
opening some concert?
No, but I'm really enjoying it.
Yeah, and I'm not doing it foranybody else.
I'm doing it for me.
unknown (12:12):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (12:13):
As as well, you should.
Yeah.
You open with welcome to thechaos club.
And is midlife chaotic becauseof hormones, or because we
finally stopped tolerating whatno longer fits?
Yes, and yes.I I think that itis so, you know, I don't know
(12:34):
about you, but I remember um,you know, being raised with this
idea of the midlife crisis,right?
Yeah.
You know, and I was, and my momand I are 19 years apart.
So we're quite close.
And I remember she was goingthrough some of these, these
periods of of transition forher.
And I, you know, being in my20s and she was in her 40s, and
(12:57):
I was like, ooh, that's old ladystuff.
Like I just wanted, I wanted tocreate so much distance from
myself and her and the conceptof midlife, or, you know, some
kind of impending doom that waslike coming and all these
changes that were happening.
I was like, oh my God, that'sso gross.
And so I think a lot of us areraised to fear, you know, and
(13:17):
and believe that this period oftime, and there's no magic.
It's not like you look atmidlife and go, oh, it's your
40s, or it's your 30s, or oh,it's your 50s.
It's there's no magic decade.
But I think, I think that it ischaotic.
Um, and it doesn't mean it's acrisis.
It doesn't mean you're fallingapart.
It doesn't mean that yourworld's gonna open up and
swallow you whole, but it meansthat a lot of things are
(13:39):
changing.
And yes, is it hormones?
100%.
Yes, is it because we'refinally becoming intolerant and
exhausted with having to carrythe loads and play the role that
we've been playing for decadesand decades?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'remaybe redefining what right or
normal looks like and feelslike?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'redealing with all the appearance
(14:02):
changes and all the things thatare like in turmoil?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because a lot ofthe roles that we used to have
are shifting?
Yes.
Is it chaotic because we'retrying to rediscover parts of
ourselves that have been lost?
Yes.
So you kind of keep adding it,yeah.
It's super chaotic.
But but chaos is like it's likethe word crisis.
(14:23):
Chaos is not bad.
Yeah.
It you know, and I I rememberback probably in my mid-40s, not
sleeping, you know, maybe maybelate 40s, not sleeping, and
just not and feeling reallyanxious at times.
(14:44):
And and I wish, I wish we knewat that time what all this was.
And we have a lot moreinformation now, yeah, than than
we ever have.
You know, the distinctionbetween perimenopause and
menopause and and all those bodychanges that come with it.
You know, there's what 30 or 40different symptoms of of
(15:05):
perimenopause and menopause?
I mean, come on, we didn't knowany of this stuff.
And, you know, you you say thatit's not it's not a hot flash,
it's a personality reboot, whichjust cracks me up.
But you you reframe thatnarrative completely.
What other changes in midlifedo women often get mislabeled?
Angela Burk (15:30):
I think we get a lot of changes mislabeled,
right?
I think even the, you know, ifI go back and look at my 40s,
we're probably the decade so farthat has been the most
change-filled because all thesethings were happening at one
time, right?
So we get mislabeled because,oh my gosh, like she's losing
her mind.
You know, she must be goingcrazy.
(15:51):
No.
Oh my gosh, like why, you know,she's complaining about her
marriage or she's complainingabout her kids, or she's
complaining about her job.
You know, she's never, she'sungrateful.
No.
Oh, you know, so you you kindof take all of these changes
that we're going through.
And it's very easy from thebecause it and and a lot of that
(16:12):
mislabeling starts with us.
I know if I go back and look atmy 40s, I had no idea how close
I was to actually becomingpost-menopausal when I was about
45.
I had no idea.
I divorced, and it wasn't likethis big dramatic divorce, but
we, you know, my my my kids' dadand I looked at each other,
both realized we could behappier.
(16:32):
And that's not how I wanted tolive.
I didn't want to model for myboys that the, you know, the
best relationship that youshould seek out is somebody who
looks at you and says, huh, Icould be happier someplace else.
Nah.
Again, another careercrossroads.
I took a massive career risk inchanging jobs.
And then the backdrop of allthat were the hormone stuff.
So it felt like I was losing mymind half the time.
(16:55):
And so I think, I think that alot of, you know, and when
you're in it, I believe that themislabeling, I was probably the
most guilty at mislabeling alot of this stuff because I
didn't, I didn't stop and lookat what was happening.
And I didn't have the knowledgeto say, man, those hormones are
really driving a lot of this.
Or, hey, you know, you're notsleeping and you're anxious.
(17:17):
Because I looked at that and Iwent, well, of course I'm
anxious and I'm not sleeping.
I'm working 14 hours a day.
I'm trying to establish myselfas a single mom.
I'm trying to make sure my boysare situated.
I'm worried about them.
I'm worried about, like, ofcourse I'm not sleeping.
So it was easy for me tojustify and rationalize all of
these things that I was feeling,in particular at that time, as
(17:38):
being um, you know, a symptom ofa circumstance.
And then I started, again, Iwas looking around and I'm like,
I'm not the only one goingthrough this stuff, but why does
everybody else seem to be sogood at this?
Michele Folan (17:49):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (17:49):
So then I must be the crazy one.
I must be the one that doesn'tknow how to do this right.
I must be the one that's doingit wrong.
And so it the mislabeling, Ibelieve, and it was kind of that
kind of belief was validatedthrough a lot of the women that
I spoke to for the book.
You know, yes, the outsideworld can mislabel all of this
stuff, but I think sometimeswe're the worst offenders.
Michele Folan (18:12):
Because we're so hard on ourselves.
Yeah, we are.
But you know, there is there isthis point that I think we get
to where we become more honest.
And I think that honesty canmake other people really
uncomfortable.
Oh, yeah.
Particularly our kids.
Because not sugarcoating thingsanymore.
(18:34):
Where it's you you worry lessabout you want to people to know
the truth and worry less abouthurting people's feelings
because they yeah.
Angela Burk (18:44):
I it is very uncomfortable.
I think honesty does rattlepeople, you know, and I think um
discomfort rattles people.
I think change rattles people.
I think different rattlespeople.
So when you, you know, whetherit's with your kids or your
partner or your boss or yourfriends or your family, when you
(19:05):
show up different, when youshow up with some attitude
changes, with you when you showup stripping away some of the
layers that they're so used toseeing that make them all
comfortable, it rattles people.
People don't like that.
unknown (19:18):
They don't.
Angela Burk (19:20):
People don't like it.
And then and then the backdropthough to all that is, and and
and you know, the science saysthis, right?
So some of the hormones thatare so prevalent in us when
we're in our 20s and 30s, youknow, when we're young and in
our 20s and 30s and 40s until weget to menopause, they're meant
to keep us soft, right?
They they're meant to keep usnurturing and you know huggable.
(19:43):
And so you you come at a lot ofthese circumstances with just
sheer exhaustion.
You come at it with a newrealization, you come at it with
brutal honesty, and thehormones that have kept you that
way are leaving the building.
It's like, of course you'regonna be different.
Like you're biologicallydifferent, you're chemically
(20:05):
different, and people don't likethat.
Michele Folan (20:07):
Oh, I yeah.
We're gonna continue thisconversation after the break.
Angela, we'll be right back.
Quick pause for a second.
If you've been listening tothis podcast and thinking, oh my
gosh, my friend needs to hearthis, don't keep it to yourself.
Seriously.
So many women out there aretrying to figure this stuff out
(20:27):
alone.
Health hormones, aging, all ofit.
And half the time we don't evenknow where to start.
That's exactly why I createdthis podcast.
So if something you've heardtoday resonated with you, send
it to a friend, a sister, yourworkout buddy, that woman you
were just talking to aboutperimenopause over coffee.
Because these conversations,they matter, and the more women
(20:51):
we bring into this space, thebetter we all get.
All right, let's get back tothe episode.
All right, we are back.
We've talked about hormones,and I think there is this
confusion about hormones andjust how much is just us getting
(21:11):
older, like what's how much isexistential, you know, this
whole change.
I mean, we our our libidochanges, our our vaginas change.
I mean, everything, everythingis changing.
How do we get women tounderstand about hormones that
might reduce shame andself-blame at this point in the
(21:36):
game?
Angela Burk (21:36):
I mean, you you you nailed a concept that I think
is really important here.
It is wired into us early onthat change, things that change
are a failure.
And with a failure, with this Ibelief, if if that's the belief
we hold that if somethingchanges, whether it's our libido
is changing, our appearance ischanging, our relationship is
(21:58):
changing, um, you know.
Our careers are changing,whatever it is, change equals
failure.
Failure comes with it shame,guilt, embarrassment, fear, all
these things.
And I think the only way thatwe can sort of, you, you, you
have to have the ability to sortof pause and go, okay,
something is different.
Different is not bad.
(22:18):
Different is just different.
And there is no need for me tofeel guilt and shame.
And like if I'm feeling thesethings, let me call them out.
But now what am I going to dodifferent?
And one of the things I will, Iwill, I'll share a story of
what happened with me.
So I was writing this book,right?
So I started writing in Aprilof 24.
I was like June, July, I waswriting the book.
(22:40):
And I also started a Substack.
I was interviewing experts forthe book, and I noticed I was
suffering from a libido change.
So my background is I, youknow, started perimenopause very
early.
I was in my late 30s.
I um entered menopause, kind ofbecame post-menopausal at 47.
So I thought I think a littleon the early side, and I raw dog
(23:00):
the entire thing.
So no hormones for me at anypoint.
So fast forward, I'm writingthis book, I'm talking to an
expert.
It's all about the time thatthe FDA did the uh panel
discussion on vaginal estrogencream and removing the black box
label.
I listened to that.
I've never done that before inmy life, a government panel,
never listened to that.
But I was talking to an expert,and all the while I was
(23:21):
noticing a libido change ofmyself.
And I couldn't talk to my manabout it because I didn't
understand what was happening.
He noticed it.
I noticed it.
And it was like a subject that,you know, we would kind of talk
about and he'd be like, Oh, isit is it a problem with us?
And I'm like, I know, and Idon't know what's happening, and
I don't really want to talkabout it.
And then at the same time, likemy bladder was changing.
(23:42):
So I was like, it just nothingfelt sexy.
And I couldn't even, I wasembarrassed.
Yeah, quite honestly.
So all of this is happening.
I talked to an expert, and youknow, we're sort of talking
about this the vaginal estrogencream, and I go to my doctor and
I'm telling her what'shappening, and she's like, you
know, it really sucks, doesn'tit?
And I thought that's the bestyou can.
And then she says to me, Sheknows that my partner lives in
(24:03):
Australia, I live in California.
And she says to me, I think youand your man need to go on more
dates.
Oh.
And I'm like, uh, you do knowwe don't live in the same
country.
So, and I and I promise thisstory is gonna wrap up.
But at about the same time, Istarted reading Miranda July's
book, All Fours.
Fictional book, kind of smuddy.
I loved it.
My partner happened to be inCalifornia at that time.
(24:24):
He started reading it.
We like to read the same books.
He has to fly to London, andI'm ahead of him in the book.
But there's a chart in thisbook, okay?
And the chart is, it's afictional book, I just want to
preface this.
And the chart is it's gotestrogen and testosterone, men
and women, by decade, and itplots the levels of these
(24:44):
hormones.
And basically, what it shows iswomen have a plummet of
estrogen, usually right around45.
We have very littletestosterone, and even that
plummet, where men they havemore of these hormones, and that
their decline is really likethis little meandering, little
slow, steady, quiet, calm.
(25:04):
So my man gets off the plane,he calls me from the Arrowbridge
and he says to me, Did you getto the chart?
And I said, Well, I'm past thechart.
He says, Babe, I am so sorry.
Because that chart explained tohim why I was suffering and why
my libido changed.
And it gave me the ability totalk to him in a way that I
(25:25):
couldn't talk to him before.
And it also prompted me to gotalk to a doctor.
I got uh uh started onhormones, and things are better.
They're not like, you know,it's not sexy time, fun time all
the time, but things arebetter.
But the long and short of it islike there is so much confusion
and guilt and shame andembarrassment that come with
(25:47):
even a libido change.
Yeah.
And then you you try to seekout help and you get the
gaslighting and the oh, you youand your partner need to go on
more dates.
But and it's why and I had tofind language for this in a
fictional book.
Yeah.
But but I did.
Michele Folan (26:00):
Yeah.
You know, I think some of this,some of this is a choice.
Like if you if you decide thatit's not that important to you
that you don't want to get thehelp, that's I think that's a
choice.
And I think some women it's achoice, some women decide to do
that.
I felt the need to get helpwith my hormones because I I I
(26:22):
was missing that in my life.
And I, Angela, this isinteresting.
So I interviewed a functionalmedicine integrative health
doctor, and we were talkingabout vaginal estrogen, but he
said, you know, what what womenoften forget is that a lot of
their external sex organs,clitoris labia, is they're
(26:45):
they're the same tissue that athat a penis is, yeah, and that
it's made of testosterone, andthat we need that testosterone
not just for libido, but for ourhealth of our sexual, sexual
organs, yeah, external ones.
And I was like, uh, no one'sever really brought that up to
(27:07):
me before on the podcast, but Ijust thought that was
interesting.
So it's not just estrogen.
We got to pay attention totestosterone and progesterone,
but 100% we could talk aboutthat all day.
Angela Burk (27:19):
We could, but one of the things I also want to
draw out about what you said is,you know, it is a choice,
right?
And the choice is ours.
So take libido, take yourappearance, take a decision to
take drums or not take drums.
Here's the thing we're finallyat a point in life where for
many of us, the attention thatwe used to put out to other
(27:43):
things and other people andother places is now, for very
real reasons, starting to turninward.
So I was talking to somebodythe other day about, you know,
the appearance changes.
And they're they're jarring.
I at least for me, theappearance changes were jarring
because I wasn't prepared,right?
And I just felt like theinjustices just don't stop for
(28:05):
us.
So it's like every daysomething changes.
And then this person sort ofjudged me a little bit about
wanting to get microneedling andyes, I've dabbled in Botox and
all these things.
It's like, you know what, holdthe phone.
The choice is mine, and I don'towe you an explanation, and I
don't have to justify it, andI'm not asking for permission.
And so take that same mindsetand apply it to appearance.
(28:29):
I had another conversation witha girlfriend, this was during
my time of writing the book,about trucker hats.
I show up to her house wearinga trucker hat.
I love them.
And she's like, ew, you know, atrucker hat.
We're too old for that.
I think you need a full brimsituation.
And I was like, uh, what?
Excuse me.
So I've taken it now.
(28:49):
It is my personal mission.
Every time I see her, I wear abrand new trucker hat.
But, you know, if I want towear a bikini to the beach, I'm
gonna wear a bikini to thebeach.
If I want to wear a ratty oldsweatshirt and my pajama pants
to go to Target, guess what I'mwearing?
But it's it's the mindset thatsays the choice is mine.
Michele Folan (29:08):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (29:08):
And I don't apologize, I don't ask for
permission, I don't wait forvalidation, the choice is mine.
And that I think is also atheme that is emerging for a lot
of us women in our in ourmidlife, whether it's your 30s,
and that's it starts to brewthere.
40s, it kind of starts like theit's kind of coming to a slow
(29:29):
boil.
Our 50s, we're boiling, and itcarries forward into our 60s and
70s and 80s because of thechoices we're making now.
Michele Folan (29:37):
You know, your your comment about wearing the
ratty sweatshirt and sweatpantsto Target, I probably wouldn't
have done that 10 years ago, butI would do that now.
Because I don't give an F whatpeople think.
Angela Burk (29:52):
Because I don't give an F.
I wouldn't have done it in my20s and 30s, no.
But now I don't give an F whatpeople think.
Yeah.
You know, and one of the otherthings that again, I think that,
you know, the universe just hasa way of connecting all these
dots for us in many ways.
The oldest real girl that Ispoke to in the book, I
interviewed her, uh, she's inshe's 82.
(30:12):
She wrote her first book whenshe was in her late 70s, and it
was a book about grief becauseshe had lost her second husband.
And she decided that she wasgoing to write a book in her
late 70s about the grievingprocess.
And through that process, shealso began to write poetry.
So she's working on a secondbook of poetry.
However, so I'm talking to herand I interview her for the
(30:32):
book, and the last and she wenton to find new love at at 80.
Um, and I said, What's been themost surprising thing about
finding love at this age?
And basically she said that theparts still work and I like it.
And I thought, okay, that wasthat was another, it was right
about the time of this wholelibido thing for me.
And that was another point intime where the choice, it would,
(30:54):
it reaffirmed this idea thatthe choice is mine to make.
So if I'm unsatisfied with mylibido, if I don't want to be in
my 60s and 70s and 80s withthat out of my life, that hey,
if if I make a choice that saysI'm I'm good without it, again,
I don't owe anybody anexplanation, but I don't want
that for myself.
(31:15):
So I'm going to choose to fixit.
Yeah.
Equally as somebody whodecides, ah, I'm good.
Yeah.
And that's okay too.
But it's the I don't, I don'towe the world an apology.
I don't owe the world anexplanation.
And I don't need to seekpermission.
Michele Folan (31:30):
You know, you brought up grief, and that was
one of my questions in grievingwho you were and loving who you
are.
You speak honestly aboutidentity loss.
What version of yourself didyou personally have to grieve?
Angela Burk (31:49):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and look, likelet's just grief comes from a
lot of a lot of dimensions,right?
You can grieve marriages, um,you can grieve old identities,
you can grieve the noise of abusy household, you can grieve
the life that you thought youwere gonna have.
And for me, I think I did.
I I sort of envisioned my life.
(32:10):
You know, I I I believed in my20s I wasn't gonna get married.
I didn't really want to havekids.
And then I met a man, I waslike, oh, I can get married, and
kid things sounds really good.
And I sort of projected how,like, you know, what what was my
life gonna be like um at 50 and60 and 70 and 80?
And when we made the decisionto divorce, I that was a loss,
(32:33):
right?
This I idea of who I was goingto be and the life I was gonna
have.
And yeah, it I agreed that.
And yet what I what I realizedwas, you know, the the further
that I tried to push that away,or the um the the longer I took
to just acknowledge how I wasfeeling, the the longer it took
(32:56):
for me to get to acceptance.
So, you know, I had toacknowledge I feel sad about
this thing.
And that kind of moved me toacceptance.
And then I sort of needed toshift my mindset in a way that
says, you know, grief or changeis not a failure.
You know, I don't look at mymarriage and consider it a
failure.
I don't.
I look at that time and Ithink, hey, something wasn't
(33:20):
working.
I'm going to embrace a newdefinition of right.
There's no one way to do this.
I'm gonna embrace a newdefinition of what right looks
like for me.
And yes, I can feel sad aboutthat.
Yes, I could grieve the idea ofthe life I thought I was gonna
have, but now it is not afailure.
And I'm taking action, even asmall step forward to something
(33:43):
new is liberate.
And I believed at that timethat good things come from
change.
Good things come from doingsomething different.
I didn't know what it was gonnalook like, but I believed that
at my core.
Um, but it was, you know, andeven now, even the identity
thing, like I I'm noticing myhair is thinning, which is just
(34:05):
like again, the injustices.
Are you for real?
Yeah, let's just add that oneto the list.
Just add it to the list.
And I, you know, not that Iever had this thick, voluminous
hair, but you know, and I I I'mlucky because I have the curls,
so it kind of can disguise someof the the thinning.
But it's you know, I I I likedmy hair when it was a little bit
(34:29):
more volume.
Yeah.
And it makes me sad.
It's like, you know, I see toomuch.
And then my my kid, my15-year-old's like, Mom, I can
see a little scalp here.
And it's like, thanks, buddy.
That makes me sad, right?
But it's, you know, it's not afailure.
I'm not failing.
And if I decide that I'm nothappy with it, I will make a
change.
But that's on me.
Like I get to decide to dothat.
Michele Folan (34:50):
Yeah, and I think it's important to point out
too, we don't have to have griefor have those feelings to feel
like we want to step into amidlife expansion, right?
Angela Burk (35:01):
No.
Michele Folan (35:02):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (35:02):
Not at all.
Not at all.
But I do think, you know, if Ilook back at different points of
my life, there were times thesigns were there, right?
If I look back at differentpoints in my life, it might have
been, you know, the other thingthat I really work on a lot is
saying no, because my patternwas always I have to say no with
like an essay or some sort ofdissertation.
And it's like, I'm notavailable.
(35:24):
That's three words.
Like that's kind of all I oweanybody.
But um, you know, I think, Ithink that if I look back, you
know, the signs were there thatsomething in me was shifting.
You know, I would say yes tothings I wanted to say no to.
It's no wonder I was constantlytired.
Or, you know, looking back, Icould start to see nothing
(35:46):
dramatic or tragic, but I couldstart to see that I slowly
wasn't recognizing myself in myown life.
Or a lot of the traits that Ifeel I have that I really love,
I'm persistent, I'm resilient,I'm all these things, I those
were disappearing.
Like I didn't really see me inthe same way.
And those, if I if I justquieted my life and I started to
(36:07):
see those things, I think thesigns are there.
But for many of us, we ignorethe signs or we don't give
ourselves the quiet to justnotice them.
And that, you know, and I and Ifirmly believe that this whole
transition that many of us areon, it's not about blowing up
your whole life.
And you don't have to have aperfect plan for everything.
But if you give yourself theability to just quiet the noise
(36:31):
and look for the signs, and ifthere are the signs are there
and you're going, yeah, youknow, why am I saying yes to so
many things I really want to sayno to?
Michele Folan (36:40):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (36:40):
Okay, acknowledging that and then saying what you
need out loud, even if it's toyourself, that changes the your
thought pattern and your actionpattern.
But if I'm honest, I think alot of the signs were there in
my 30s and in my 40s, but I justdidn't pay attention to them.
Michele Folan (36:58):
Yeah, you you said that you've always felt
like you had to have this longdissertation whenever you were
would say no to something.
And I think we we tend to dothat.
We're like, well, I'm reallytired and I gotta, I gotta get
up early in the morning, andit's just been a rough week, and
I really don't think I shouldgo.
And instead of just saying,hey, it really just doesn't work
for me tonight.
I'm gonna make a I'm gonna takea pass.
Angela Burk (37:21):
Yeah.
Or the other one, asking forrest.
It's for me, I thought the ideaof asking for rest, and I'm so
sorry, like I've noticed thisnew wave of menopause.
Everything, every orifice thatI have is now dry.
My nose gets so itchy.
So I'm scratching my nosebecause it's so itchy.
But um, you know, it's thisidea of asking for rest and
saying, I'm tired.
(37:42):
Like somehow I view that as aweakness.
But there are days like Ireally work on, I actively work
on this practice.
And it like if I'm this is howit plays out.
I'm going about my day and I'mlike, man, I'll say it out loud.
I'm really tired.
I need a nap.
Nobody's home.
But I say it out loud to myselfbecause that breaks the thought
(38:02):
pattern, right?
Yep.
And then what am I gonna dowith that?
Well, I'm gonna go sit down andI'm gonna take a rest.
If I'm not available, that's agood way.
I I use that, that's threewords to say no.
Yeah.
If I'm not available, I need abreak, four words.
I disagree.
You know, I can't tell you howmany times in a corporate
(38:22):
setting I'd be sitting inmeetings and I would be
listening to these executivesargue a point and I could see
the solution so clearly in myhead, or I could see the the
seven risks that their solutionpresented, but I'd sit back on
that on my opinion because I'mlike, who am I to think I could
say it?
They're not gonna listen to me.
I'm too junior.
Um, I disagree.
(38:44):
That's two words.
Michele Folan (38:45):
Yep, yep.
And I'm telling you, I I turned62 this week.
Oh, happy birthday.
Thank you.
And I love being in my 60sbecause I now have balls that I
didn't have in my 40s, and Idon't stay quiet any longer.
unknown (39:08):
No.
Michele Folan (39:08):
And it's way more fun.
Angela Burk (39:11):
It's way more fun, and that's the thing.
Like, it doesn't have to startwith this big, you know, massive
declaration or this massiveplan or this massive set of
changes.
It can start with a simplesentence, right?
Deciding, you know, deciding,hey, I'm gonna practice saying
no to things.
Okay, cool.
This week, make a commitment toyourself.
(39:32):
If something comes up that youwant to say no to, in when it
comes up to yourself, say outloud, I don't want to do this.
That alone is huge because it'sgonna interrupt your thought
pattern.
Then practice some response.
I'm not available.
Three words.
Yeah, I can't make it, fourwords.
(39:55):
The other thing that I had tostart doing was like, if
somebody would ask me to dosomething, it'd be like, I don't
want to do that thing, buthere's what I can do.
Here's what I can do.
Five words.
That's it.
Yeah.
And it's a sentence.
It's not a big, you're notblowing up your life, you're not
going out and spending a youknow, $90,000 on a midlife
crisis car, you're not, youknow, uh making an appointment
(40:18):
for a massive, you know,full-plane facelift.
You're starting with asentence.
Michele Folan (40:22):
Yeah, and I think it's it's what it is, it's just
prioritizing yourself.
It doesn't prioritizingyourself doesn't cost doesn't
have to cost money.
It really doesn't.
But I will say that many of mylisteners are actively.
They're prioritizing strength,the mobility, they're really
looking at long-term health andlongevity.
(40:42):
In your view, how does physicalstrength intersect with that
emotional confidence in midlife?
Angela Burk (40:50):
It's I think that they go hand in hand.
Michele Folan (40:53):
Yeah.
Angela Burk (40:53):
Our mind and our body are completely connected,
right?
And when we make decisions toalter our mindset and our
psychology and our our behaviorfollows.
So for me, you know, take theI've always been, I'll give you
a great example.
I've always been a very activeperson, but I distanced myself
from things like weightliftingand strength training for a long
(41:15):
time.
I wish I wouldn't have.
I wish I would have embracedthose things earlier because the
benefits are so proven.
But I think the other thingthat happens though is when we
start, because I know a lot ofwomen, and I did it too when I
was in my 20s and 30s, and youhave these young kids, and I
can't take time to go to thegym.
I can't take time to work out.
I'm not gonna, you know, Idon't have time to make these
(41:37):
glorious nutrient-filled meals,three meals a day for, you know,
five different people in myhousehold because nobody likes
the same thing.
Like I certainly can'tprioritize these things that are
gonna give me longevity becausesomebody else would suffer.
And I think that the mindsetshift that we're seeing a lot of
women in our age bracket makeis it's it's that whole
(41:58):
proverbial, you put your mask onfirst before you you put others
on in an airplane, right?
When the mind gets right, ourbehavior changes.
And the link between our mindand our desires to then how we
physically behave, to then howwe act is there.
And when we start puttingourselves first and we start
(42:19):
believing that our wants and ourdesires should come first, our
actions will follow.
And whether that's prioritizingyour health, prioritizing your
the medical care you're givingyourself, um, whether it's
prioritizing rest or exercise ornutrition over keeping
everybody else satisfied, likeyou're putting your mask on
(42:39):
first.
And I it it I think where wesometimes fall is when we're
only paying attention to thepsychology and the behaviors not
following, or we only payattention to the behavior, but
our mindset hasn't shifted.
So to me, that mind-body linkis essential.
Michele Folan (42:54):
Yeah, and I I do believe that reclaiming your
body at this stage in life isreclaiming your voice.
Absolutely.
Because so much of ourself-confidence is in how we
feel about our bodies.
And if you take that time tostart reclaiming that, I think
(43:16):
it it does give you more of avoice.
Like you feel that you'vereally got like control of
things more.
Angela Burk (43:25):
That's the thing.
I think what it does is itgives you control, it gives you
strength, right?
When you when you're physicallystrong, right?
And you're physically strongand you're physically rested and
you're physically caring forthis vehicle that is your body,
you emotionally can manage andregulate so much better, right?
And and when you feel thesethings, and I know for me, I
(43:48):
feel more competent.
I feel more solid, I feel moresecure when my body feels solid
and competent and secure.
And when I'm doing the thingsto take.
Care of that, I'm inherentlyputting myself first on the
list.
And by doing that, it justchanges my outlook, right?
I'm I'm then viewing myselfdifferently.
I view my place in the worlddifferently.
(44:11):
I view um what I expect fromothers differently because I'm
caring for myself.
So if I'm, you know, and Ithink the inverse is true too.
Like if I look back in my 30s,I was so focused on giving
attention to everybody elsebecause I felt like I had to,
that I didn't turn it to myself.
But the minute I startedturning attention back to
myself, whether it wasemotionally, spiritually,
(44:32):
physically, I then became apriority in my own life.
And as silly as that sounds,that shift had to happen.
And then caring for my body,caring for my nutrition meant
that I was stronger.
I was physically stronger.
And when I felt physicallystronger, it was like I then am
taking up more space in myphysical life, in my emotional
(44:55):
life, in my spiritual life, inmy um, in every part of my life,
really.
So these things just sort of, Ithink, go hand in hand.
And I think you're absolutelyright.
The we can't undervalue thetaking care of our physical
needs.
Michele Folan (45:08):
Right.
Yeah.
So important.
So if if a woman listeningright now feels stuck, where
does she begin?
Angela Burk (45:16):
Yeah, it's it's a really um, really good question.
One of the things in my book Italk about is um I end the book
with this concept of amanifesto.
And it's it's, you know, forme, it's kind of about how we
can adapt and start prioritizingour own needs.
So and I did this myself, is,you know, it it's you can start
(45:41):
with one simple thing, and thatis evaluate, just pause and
think of one thing that you'dlike to be done carrying and one
thing that you'd like toreclaim.
That becomes a person, andwrite it down, physically write
it down.
That becomes a personalcontract to your to yourself.
So is there something that youwant to let go of, a belief, a
habit, an expectation?
(46:02):
And is there something that youwant to begin, that you want to
stand in, that you want toembrace?
Write those things down.
And that shift alone, just thevirtue of thinking of one thing
in each of those categories andphysically writing it down could
change everything.
And I, and that doesn't taketime.
It doesn't take money, itdoesn't take a lot of attention.
(46:24):
It just takes a focus onyourself.
Michele Folan (46:27):
Yeah.
I think that's a great place tostart.
It's so simple.
So simple.
It it it's not it's not a wholevision board or something like
that.
It's not a vision board.
Angela Burk (46:36):
It's just one thing.
Like for me, you know, I um thething that I've been working on
a lot is, you know, because Iwas sort of raised with this
belief that I was, um, you know,I was the peacekeeper, I was
the the load carrier, I was theproblem, the problem fixer, I
was the solution person.
And I had to realize that thatbelief about myself kind of
(47:00):
railroaded my life in a lot ofways that I feel like I didn't
fully control.
So I'm really trying to unwindfrom that.
And the thing that I'm startingto embrace is this idea of just
saying no.
I don't need to explain myself.
And so those are the thingsthat I've written down, and
those are the things that I holdas a contract to myself.
(47:20):
You know, so when I feel thepull toward fixing somebody's
problem, when I feel the pulltoward having to be responsible
for like the emotionalregulation of everybody around
me, I stop.
Yeah.
I go, okay, what am I doing?
Love it.
Or when I feel the pull, likeall of a sudden I'm like saying
yes to something that I reallydon't want to do, it's like
(47:41):
something in my body's changing.
Like, usually I get kind of nota pit in my stomach, but my
stomach kind of starts to turn alittle bit and I feel like
heaviness in my chest.
And it's like, wait, I think Ijust said yes to something I
didn't want to do.
Like, uh, what's going on?
I need to tune into likesomething's wrong.
And then it's like, okay, whatam I gonna do?
Well, I'm gonna say no.
Yeah, I'm not available.
Three words.
(48:02):
Yep, I love it.
And those are big, massivechanges, right?
No, no, but they're importantones.
Michele Folan (48:08):
It's just really about being true to ourselves.
So I think that's it.
Great advice.
What's one thing you wish youknew when you first entered
midlife?
Angela Burk (48:17):
Oh man, you're gonna ask me to pick one thing.
Okay, I'm gonna answer this,but I'm gonna say a couple
things.
I wish that I would have knownthat it's it was never a midlife
crisis.
It was just about clarity.
I wish that I would havebelieved at the times when I was
going through a lot of thechange, I was never falling
apart.
Because there were times whereI felt like I was.
I really wasn't.
(48:38):
I wish that somebody would havetold me that my body was gonna
change a whole lot faster uhthan my mindset.
Because man, some of thosechanges hit hard and they're
furious.
I wish I I wish, you know, alot of those old stories that
either people had written aboutme or I had written about
myself, I wish I would havereally challenged those earlier.
(48:59):
It's not too late.
No, no, and I'm doing that now,but but I I do wish I would
have challenged those a littlebit earlier.
But I think, and and you're notalone.
And also you're not crazy.
Yeah.
Michele Folan (49:13):
Yeah, those are all great.
Yeah.
Angela Burk (49:15):
What's next for you?
Well, um, so the book is out.
I'm working on a companion booknow, which will be out in the
spring.
So that's very exciting.
I write for my substack.
Um, so Real Girls Guide toMidlife.com.
I write like three things aweek, um, which is really fun.
And yeah, um, you know, justgetting to meet amazing women
like you and have these amazingconversations.
(49:36):
I just hope to be doing more ofthat.
And yeah, and more drumlessons.
Yeah, and more drum lessons.
Michele Folan (49:41):
Yeah.
That's so fun.
I love it.
Yeah.
And then finally, this is I askall my all my guests this.
So we're gonna strip away allthe buzzwords.
What is one self-care,non-negotiable, you protect at
this stage of life, even when itcould disappoint others?
Angela Burk (50:02):
It's sleep, honestly.
When I'm tired, I go to bed.
And if that means that, youknow, somebody doesn't get to do
something that they want to do.
I last night is a really goodexample.
My son at eight o'clock lastnight, I had just flown in from
Atlanta.
I gave a workshop based on atheme of my book at a at a
company.
So I flew in from Atlanta, Iwas exhausted.
So I'm on East Coast time.
(50:22):
I was up from like 2:30 a.m.
Pacific time, and it's now 8a.m.
Pacific time.
And my son's like, mom, Ireally need to go to Target.
I need to get something.
And I said no.
And he's like, but but but andI said no.
I said, look, uh this isn'turgent for you.
And I'm tired and I'm not doingit, and I'm going to bed now.
Yeah.
(50:42):
And that's all I said.
Yeah.
Don't have to make a bunch ofexcuses.
I don't.
I don't.
Oh, and he was like, but and Icould tell he was disappointed,
but so for me it's rest.
Yeah.
It's rest and sleep.
Michele Folan (50:56):
Sleep is becoming one of the more commonly stated
non-negotiables that I'mhearing from my guests.
So I think we're all startingto really, you know, understand
that we aren't our best selveswhen we don't get enough sleep.
Period.
End of story.
Angela Burk (51:14):
Oh, and we never were.
And I think like for when wewere younger, we could, I know
for me and a lot of the womenthat I talked to in the book, it
was easy to justify lack ofsleep.
Kids are young, everybody'ssick, I'm working, I'm this, I'm
that, I'm having a, you know,I'm trying to be the best mom
and the best wife and the best,you know, career woman and the
best, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
(51:34):
And you could kind of go, ofcourse I'm not sleeping.
Like, yeah, you know, Iremember my mom used to say, you
know, I'll sleep when I'm dead.
And it's like, no, that'sactually not.
And I think we're also gettingsmart and we understand that our
ability to be strong and ourability to exercise and take
good care of ourselves ispredicated on being rested.
And we're we're now becomingmore educated on the power of
(51:56):
rest and sleep on things likeour health and longevity.
So, you know, I think we'rejust getting smarter about it.
But I know I I could easilylike I can get by on, you know,
four hours sleep and four cupsof coffee a day, and
everything's gonna be fine.
And now it's like, uh-uh.
I'm not, I'm not trading thatanymore.
Michele Folan (52:13):
Nope.
Nope.
I agree.
And now we're on the same page.
Love it.
Angela Burke, where can thelisteners find the real girls
guide to midlife and you and therest of your work?
Angela Burk (52:26):
Oh, that's such a great question.
Um, so Real Girls Guide toMidlife is on Amazon, Barnes and
Noble, all the places that youlove to buy your books.
I write on Substacks, so youcould go to Real Girls Guide to
Midlife.com.
Um, you subscribe by putting inan email address.
It's very low risk and not alot of effort.
I'm on Instagram at RealGirlsGuide55.
I post really cringy reels andtry to keep up on Instagram.
(52:50):
The socials are just superscary for me and very
uncomfortable.
But yeah, that's where you canfind me.
Michele Folan (52:55):
Wonderful.
Angela Burke, good luck withthe companion book this spring.
Thank you.
And uh we really appreciate youbeing here today.
Thank you so much for havingme.
Before you go, thank you forbeing here.
If you want to go a littledeeper, make sure you check out
the show notes for this episode.
That's where I link anything wementioned, resources, partners,
(53:19):
or tools I actually use andtrust.
And if you're not already onthe Asking for a Friend
community newsletter, that'swhere I share practical midlife
tips, favorite finds, recipes,and the things that don't always
make it onto the podcast orInstagram.
You'll find the link to join inthe show notes.
Take care, and I'll see younext week.
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