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This is part two of my recent conversation with Jake the International Security Specialist Guy and if you haven't already listened to Ep 138 or when Jake was on the show last year in Ep 117, then stop what you're doing and go back and catch those episodes. In this portion we are talking more about contingency planning with your family. The specific context is what do you do if you're separated from your teenagers during an emergency in a foreign country, but really, this is practical advice for an emergency anywhere and even in a situation that is not a crisis yet but just requires some guidance so that your teen is prepared.
Jake's previous episodes were Ep 117 and Ep 138
Music is by the Mini Vandals
Hey Chaplain podcast episode 138.5 (part 2)
Tags:
Travel, Children, Contingencies, Connectivity, Disasters, Emergencies, Family, Hiking, Phones, Planning, Police, Rally Points, Safety, Technology, Teens, Mexico
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
My name is Kate Gallup.
I'm the Reverend Dr.
Chaplin Coordinator for theMassachusetts State Police.
Thank you all for listening.
This is such an importantministry and outreach.
And I just wish more people hadthis.
So if you are listening rightnow, please share it with your
departments, your troopers, youragencies, your officers.
It really makes a difference.
I just want to say it's such anhonor and privilege to be here
with more amazing chaplains andto do this work.
(00:22):
And I love what I do every day.
How many people can say that?
So I am very grateful for this.
I like that.
SPEAKER_04 (00:27):
That's excellent.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Thank you so much.
Good job.
SPEAKER_04 (00:31):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard.
(00:53):
They are sharing their wisdom sothat you don't have to learn it
the hard way.
And as a patrol chaplain, Ithink that you deserve to hear
something that is positive andencouraging.
This is part two of my recentconversation with Jake, the
International SecuritySpecialist Guy.
And if you haven't alreadylistened to episode 138 or when
(01:16):
Jake was on the show last yearin episode 117, then stop what
you're doing right now and goback and catch those episodes.
In this portion, we are talkingmore about contingency planning
with your family.
The specific context is what doyou do when you're separated
from your teenagers during anemergency in a foreign country?
(01:39):
But really, this is practicaladvice for an emergency
anywhere, and even in asituation that's not a crisis
yet, but requires some guidanceso that your team is prepared.
Here's Jake, the InternationalSecurity Specialist Guy.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
As you look to be prepared for these situations,
uh one of the things you want todo is what we would call
contingency planning.
A lot of contingency planning isforecasting actions and
behaviors when there is nocommunication.
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
We're more talking now about what if, you know,
when something happens, you areseparated from your family
members.
You're on this side of town,they're on this side of town, or
for whatever reason you becomeseparated in an emergency.
Having a plan for this type ofsituation, uh, it's very
helpful.
And also it can lower anxiety.
SPEAKER_04 (02:36):
So this is like talking to your kids about a
house fire and how to get outand where to meet outside.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
That's part of it.
That's part of it.
Uh, you have safety trainingthat you would do, which is what
you're describing for a fire.
Okay.
And by the way, I think safetytraining is a great way to start
preparing kids versus securitytraining.
Right.
So with safety training, we cantalk about natural disasters and
different emergencies.
And, you know, there's not thatthreat actor that we're
(03:09):
discussing with family membersand things like that.
So I'm a big fan of startingyour family on your young family
on safety training and thenmoving into security training.
But a lot of it does cross overfor sure.
Okay.
Um starting, you know, we cantalk about satellite phones and
in-reach devices and all theseways to stay in communication.
SPEAKER_04 (03:31):
Define that term in reach device.
What do you mean by that forpeople who don't know?
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
Enreach device is a Garmin, yeah, it's a Garmin
device that is basicallysatellite messaging.
Okay.
Versus voice calls.
Okay.
I have these devices, I travelwith them sometimes.
We could talk about other thingslike air tags and tracking apps
and and all that stuff.
But at a basic level, if thereis an emergency and you reach
(04:01):
out to try to get a hold ofanother uh travel, travel
partner, team member, familymember, and they're not
communicating back to you, it'sprobably not because you got a
message on your phone that saysthe government shut the cell
phones off.
That that happens, but mostlikely it's because that other
(04:22):
family member has their volumeturned down.
Right.
Or they're or their phone'sdead.
Yeah.
And your cell phone is yourprimary means of communication
when you're traveling.
And the there are, you know, Istart talk about panic or uh
paranoia.
I'm one of those guys that whenmy cell phone gets to 80%, I
(04:42):
start becoming paranoid andstart looking for a charger.
You know, you you have my wifeis on the other end of the
bellcur.
Right, right.
And she runs around on six,seven per percent and just
completely have to.
SPEAKER_04 (04:57):
See, that that gives me anxiety.
I can't do I can't stand that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
So as a great stocking stuffer, Christmas
gift, because by the way, guys,we should be putting stuff in
the in the stockings too.
Yeah.
A battery bank is a greatstocking stuffer for this type
of thing.
Because if you have that on you,then you're you're very likely
to be able to keep your phonecharged.
(05:24):
If it's fine when you're in yourhotel room and you can plug the
thing in, you'll probably havepower, but you may not want to
be in your hotel room.
You may want to be on the roofso you can see what's happening.
Yeah, you may want to betraveling to the airport.
Right.
You may want, you may be hidingsomewhere if there is some kind
of a crisis.
And it's pretty stressful to besending messages and receiving
(05:46):
messages and gettinginformation, and then you're
watching that phone slowly die,and you know you're gonna lose
that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
Yeah, the last few times I've traveled with my uh
my kids, my my teenagers andadult kids, I've I've hand them
each a battery bank.
I'm just like, here, this isyou, this is yours for the next
week, and uh keep this with you.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Now now you got an improvised weapon with you, too.
SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
That's true.
That's true.
That's a heavy, heavy littleitem that you could could use to
your advantage.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
So I'm a big fan of having that because it makes a
big difference.
But this does us no good if wewe reach out and we're not
getting a response back in anemergency.
Uh and so a lot of times whenwe'll go to a mall or a market
overseas or something like that,and we know we're gonna split
(06:37):
up, it's me being the leader ofthe group or the leader of the
family that just tellseverybody, okay, uh, let's turn
the volumes up on our phone.
Yeah.
And doing that one simple thinggreatly increases your chances
of being able to communicate,not just in an emergency, but
just when you're trying to comeback together and regain it,
(06:58):
gain accountability to eat lunchor do anything else.
Yeah.
Uh so this is a great startingpoint because yeah, you can also
use tracking apps.
I mean, people feel differentlyabout that.
But tracking apps, they canlower anxiety or they can
increase anxiety.
Right.
I think a lot of times when youjust put the kid on the tracking
(07:20):
app, they learn that you knowwhat, they know where I'm at, so
I don't need to look at my phoneand and it's fine.
Uh that that's a very familycultural thing.
I think tracking apps can begood if if you you're running in
different directions becausethere's some kind of explosion
or some kind of emergency orsomething's happening.
And maybe, maybe I can look onthe phone and see where my my
(07:41):
kid is or my spouse, and I cango find them even if they're not
answering the phone.
But they they have limitations.
Sure.
And if you're looking at asituation where there is no
phone, whether whether you ranfrom your table and you left
your bag sitting there in anemergency, or uh the government
(08:06):
has shut the the cell towerdown, or the cell tower no
longer exists based on what'shappening.
Now you're looking atcontingency planning, or what we
would say establishing emergencymeeting locations.
SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
Yeah, my family, we had uh four of us in a town in
Mexico we had never been to, andwe're in this kind of central
plaza area, and there's foodvendors and people coming in
setting up for concerts and justcoming and going and whatever,
stores to disappear into, andwe're like, look, this big
Christmas tree thing, we're allwe're all meeting back here, and
(08:42):
so this is this is where we'regoing to.
And that's that's your classicrally point, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, and we did this instinctively throughout
human history, but somehow we'velost this with our modern
technology.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
It's so simple, it's so basic, but it but it's it's I
mean, and we picked the tallestthing in the plaza.
It's like, okay, fromeverywhere, if you can step
outside, you can see this giantChristmas tree thing.
This is visible from blocksaway.
Come here.
This is where we're meetingbefore we leave.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
That would be what we would call a good primary
meeting place or rally point.
Okay.
Uh, and that's great if that isa safe place.
Ah.
But it might not be.
In almost all cases, it will.
Too visible.
SPEAKER_03 (09:28):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Okay.
Yeah.
So if it's a great primarymeeting place for most
emergencies.
But if we're really getting intocontingency planning, sometimes
it's good to have a secondaryone that that meets a different
need if there's more of aphysical threat in that area.
In other words, if the Christmastree isn't safe, where else are
(09:51):
we going to meet up?
And now you're you're lookingfor different features.
You may be looking for somewherethat has cover concealment, a
place to hide, uh, or or there'sbetter security still in that
nearby area.
SPEAKER_04 (10:05):
Okay.
Okay.
So instead of out in the plaza,you may be like, no, we're going
to meet back behind this church,or we're going to meet down in
that basement shoe store orsomewhere that you can get to
easily at night, that maybe youcould get to even if you had a
limited injury that that you canfind.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Okay.
So not up ten flights of stairs.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
Highly visible is great if we'retrying to find each other.
Right.
But highly visible in that areamay not be good if people are
being targeted.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
So just having that secondaryplace can be very helpful.
And then you know, you couldalso think about having your
(10:47):
hotel, for instance, as a thirdmeeting place or rally point.
In other words, if we're, youknow, if we're trying to get on
the train and one of us doesn'tmake it for whatever reason, but
we don't have any communication,because if we have the phone,
it's fine.
I'm just going to reach out andtext you and we're going to make
a plan and we're going to findeach other.
(11:07):
Send me a pin on the map andI'll come to you.
Okay, that's easy.
But when you're traveling, likeyou said, sometimes people don't
have sales service.
A lot of times I'd travel, I'dhave a SIM card, but my kids
wouldn't.
Right.
You know, it's okay there withme.
Well, it's great when you haveaccountability, but you can lose
that very easily.
And so, you know, we may not beat the market, we may be on our
way to the market, and nowwe've, you know, we've been
(11:32):
separated.
What do I want them to do inthat situation?
And what you really want is tofind a place where the most
vulnerable member of your familycan be comfortable, safe, and
happy.
Because they may be there for afew hours, a little while.
You you could pick any placethat would be a good place for
(11:54):
that, but maybe your hotel wouldbe a good solid option.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then do do they have thecapabilities of getting to that
location?
You know, do they need to carrysome local currency so they can
pay for a cab?
Do they need a credit card?
Do they need a rideshare app?
SPEAKER_04 (12:12):
See, that's what I was going to say.
So many times you may haveteenagers that be like, oh, we
want to go do our own thing.
And it's like, okay, but if weget separated and you had to get
back to the hotel, you don'thave the proper money, you don't
have the proper communication,you don't you don't know, you
don't have the proper knowledgeto get back to the hotel.
So no, you can't be by yourselfin this situ in this particular
(12:34):
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
But but if they were unexpectedly, then how are they
going to mitigate that when theycan't call and ask you for
something and uh they're ontheir own?
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do you what would you do inthat situation?
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Well, first they need to know where you want them
to go.
SPEAKER_03 (12:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
So that you can find them again.
And that's the point of settingup uh a meeting place or a rally
point.
And then you're just looking at,you know, how do they get there?
So here's another option.
Um, this my son, I he went ohgosh, how much of this story can
I tell?
Uh he went deep deep in thejungle somewhere where uh there
(13:17):
was a lot of risk, and and inthe end uh he he had a heat
stroke hiking in.
He has he has a backpack on,he's traveling for days.
How old was he?
I think he was eight.
He was he was eighteen.
Okay.
And you know, we didn't hearfrom him.
(13:38):
He was with a group of people weknew he was with.
We had some contact with them,you know, peripherally, but we
didn't hear from him for threedays.
Uh which we sort of expected.
But once he got there, so in theend, he uh he had a heat stroke,
he was carried down to a riverand dunked in the river at a
(13:59):
coolie mall before he could becarried to a uh really a bamboo
hospital, and they have a thingcalled a bambulance, and this is
where they take uh a piece ofbamboo and then a a hammock, and
you get five or six guys to justrotate and take turns and carry
(14:20):
somebody.
So he's in a very remote place,but when they dunked him in the
river, his cell phone slippedout of his pocket and ended up
at the bottom of the river.
He's okay now.
He wakes up in the hospital andit's a very, very remote
hospital, but it's um, you know,the problem is he doesn't have a
cell phone.
And he hikes back down to theriver and actually amazingly
(14:43):
found his phone.
I've I've been to that riverbecause I went into the jungle
uh soon after.
And it's a fast-moving river,but somehow he found it.
Well, and amazingly, after threeor four days, it dried out and
started working again.
Wow, which is unbelievable.
Yeah.
But but he now here he is, he'she's at a satellite location to
(15:04):
where he could sign in and sendme a message, but his phone
doesn't work.
So he doesn't remember hispassword to his email.
And he doesn't I don't think heknew my phone number.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
You know, and I don't think he knew the password
to his email.
So he just figures it out how tocommunicate with me all on his
own.
And I receive an email from astranger's email, and the the
headline is This is your sonHunter.
So I see an email I don'trecognize, but I see this is
(15:41):
your son hunter, and I open itup and and there's the message.
Hey, here's where I am, this iswhat happened to me.
Wow.
So even if this was instructiveto me because I thought, yeah,
in in 2026, it really doesn'tmatter where you are on the
planet, there is a way that youcan communicate.
(16:01):
And even if your primary phone,you know, your primary is your
phone and that's not working, ifnothing else, if you just tell
them, hey, go somewhere wherethere's a coffee shop and
internet and Wi-Fi, yeah, and heknew my email address, and that
was all he needed to send me amessage from a stranger's phone.
(16:21):
Wow.
Wow.
So this is this is contingencyplanning that you know you could
roleplay this with a kid or orjust tell him what you expect
him to do if something happens.
SPEAKER_03 (16:34):
What would you put in your kids' hands besides a
battery bank?
Assuming they already have aphone.
What else what else do they needto have in their hands?
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
Well, we have a a shared email account.
The whole family shares anemail.
I created it just so we couldput virtual copies of important
documents and things in there.
Oh.
So everybody has that.
Okay.
Everybody has access to copiesof their passport and and
different things that we mayneed for just basic travel, uh,
(17:15):
basic emergencies.
I can put everything in therefrom you know who I want them to
contact in an emergency tomedical information, uh,
whatever could be important thatthey may need to access
virtually.
SPEAKER_04 (17:30):
So there's a shared Google email and uh connected to
that email is a Google Drive,you know, where there's you know
Google Docs of all these things.
That's a great idea.
SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
Yeah.
And so whatever whatever youdecide to put in there is is up
to you.
But I mean, we use that all thetime, just accessing basic
travel documents to apply forvisas, to uh yeah, anything like
that.
That's excellent.
Okay.
Just drop it in.
SPEAKER_04 (18:01):
So let me ask a different question.
Instead of what you put in theirhands, what do you put in their
minds?
It sounds like they need to havememorized at least a phone
number or a you know, GoogleDrive account.
They need to know that name andthat Google, that Google account
and that password to get toaccess that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Traditionally, people will say memorize a phone
number when you're traveling,because if your phone's taken
away, we don't memorize phonenumbers anymore.
No.
And I think it's good tomemorize a phone number, but if
they're gonna go up to astranger and try to use their
phone, are they gonna be able tomake a call to that number?
And so uh as simple as it is,I'm real big on at least
(18:42):
memorize my email.
Yeah.
Because if both of us haveWi-Fi, we can we can send
emails.
Yeah.
And yeah, I want them tomemorize their password uh so
that they can access theirinformation.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:55):
So they can access their email on a different
device.
Yeah.
If they have to borrow a device,can I get into my own email?
And a lot of people can'tbecause they don't memorize
anything anymore.
They don't memorize passwords,don't memorize phone numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
But even if you know, even if they know your
email, they can email you fromsomeone else's email.
But you have to, you have toexpect that that may happen, or
you're not going to open anemail that you don't see your.
SPEAKER_04 (19:19):
Well, I guarantee you the police department IT
people are all telling you, donot open emails from people you
don't recognize.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
And this is where it was so helpful with my son,
where he just put in, This isyour son Hunter.
Yes.
You know, the the necessity ofsolving the problem led him to a
genius solution that in inhindsight seems so simple.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah.
But uh it was not in any of mycontingency planning prior to
him doing it, and nobody hadever discussed it with me, but
(19:48):
he needed to he needed tocommunicate and he figured out
how to do it.
That's awesome.
And also, I was in the MiddleEast during a crisis, and I had
my satellite device and I had myESIM.
I had my eSIM.
Well, the settings were notworking on my eSIM, and uh
because of that, uh initially,because of that, I didn't have a
(20:12):
local SIM card and I didn't havean ESIM.
So I had no connection and Ineeded to activate my satellite
inreach device when I was in thecountry.
And I couldn't do that withoutWi-Fi and I couldn't do it
without line of sight to thesky.
(20:34):
So I had to go outside where Ilost my Wi-Fi.
Now I can't connect my inreachdevice, and the Wi-Fi on my
phone is not working, so I can'tpair with my phone.
It's like, okay, I don't haveany way to communicate.
In hindsight, I realized, wait aminute, my cab driver has
WhatsApp.
Yeah.
(20:54):
He he would be more than happyfor me to make a phone call, but
I didn't even think about itbecause I just thought, well, my
phone's not working, mysatellite device is not working.
But if I would have had a numberwritten down or memorized, and
uh the person I was trying tocontact had either a signal app
(21:16):
or WhatsApp as opposed to just aphone number, I could
communicate very easily.
And so it is good to have aphone number memorized,
especially if you're usingsomething like WhatsApp that'll
work anywhere in the worldbecause almost everybody around
the world uses WhatsApp.
Yeah.
(21:36):
And there may be some sensitiveinformation I don't want to put
out on WhatsApp, but as far asbasic communication goes, it's
great.
SPEAKER_04 (21:43):
Yeah, it's it's the preferred texting app almost
everywhere except the UnitedStates.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
And so start looking at other people as resources.
Yeah, and so having uh you youwhether you think you're gonna
have an international phone planor Or you're gonna get a local
SIM card or an eSIM, don't relyon you know regular text
messaging and phone calls.
Yeah.
With your family members backhome and people you're traveling
(22:12):
with, use something likeWhatsApp or Signal so that it'll
work on Wi-Fi no matter what.
And and someone else doesn'tneed to have an American phone
plan to be able to contact you.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_04 (22:24):
Alright, so once again, I'm going to cut the
conversation right there.
I still have about another thirdof this conversation covering
some more great topics,specifically how to shelter in
place in a hotel and relocatewhile in another country.
But I'm just going to set thataside and use that in maybe a
future bonus episode.
(22:45):
It'll also be fun to see if I'mever able to reveal Jake's true
identity.
I promised him just a little bitof anonymity while he was on the
show because some of his work issensitive in certain countries
and with certain groups.
But if Jake is able to move backto the United States in the
future and maybe is not activelyworking in those things that are
(23:08):
still time sensitive, then we'llbring Jake back on, reveal his
identity, and share more reallygreat stories because he has a
lot of great stories.
Until then, we'll just expressour undying gratitude to Jake,
the International SecuritySpecialist Guy.
On the next episode of HeyChaplin.
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
9-11 turned out to be our son's first day of
kindergarten.
And you know, this story is notspecial at all for all of us
that went through that day, youknow, but everybody's story is
unique.
Uh and a neighbor called me andsaid, Hey, you've got to turn on
(23:54):
the TV.
This is this is crazy.
And like everybody else, youknow, I was just absolutely
stunned and rocked andastonished and grieving.
And I remember seeing aphotograph, it was an iconic
photograph of this man and womanjumping off the top of one of
the towers, and they wereholding hands.
(24:16):
And I heard anecdotally thatthey did not know each other
prior.
They were just two strangerssharing this final moment
together.
And there's something inside ofme, it was almost like survivor
guilt.
It was like, there but for thegrace of God, go I.
And the other reaction I hadwas, oh hell no.
(24:36):
And no, this shall not stand.
No way, this shall not stand.
I was 48 at the time, wanted inthe fight in the worst way,
called all the armed servicesrecruiters, Marines, Navy, Air
Force, Army, and they're like,How old are you?
They weren't they weren'tdesperate enough to start taking
(24:57):
48-year-olds.
Exactly.
Of course, when I told them myage, the next thing they said
was, Well, try the Coast Guard.
All of our coasties willappreciate that.
Yeah.
unknown (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
So, but even the Coast Guard said, You're too
old, man.
Usually's too old.
So shortly thereafter, Iremember reading in uh I lived
in a uh a suburb of LA at thetime, Burbank, California.
And I remember reading in thislocal paper that a lot of these
uh Burbank coppers were gettingcalled up.
They were in the Armed ForcesReserve and they were called up
(25:31):
to active duty.
So they were looking forcoppers.
SPEAKER_04 (25:37):
The views expressed here are the personal views of
the host and our guest, and donot necessarily represent the
views of any law enforcementagency or its components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our city.
My name is Kate Gallup.
I'm the Reverend Dr.
Chaplin Coordinator for theMassachusetts State Police.
Thank you all for listening.
This is such an importantministry and outreach.
And I just wish more people hadthis.
So if you are listening rightnow, please share it with your
departments, your troopers, youragencies, your officers.
It really makes a difference.
I just want to say it's such anhonor and privilege to be here
with more amazing chaplains andto do this work.
(00:22):
And I love what I do every day.
How many people can say that?
So I am very grateful for this.
I like that.
SPEAKER_04 (00:27):
That's excellent.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Thank you so much.
Good job.
SPEAKER_04 (00:31):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard.
(00:53):
They are sharing their wisdom sothat you don't have to learn it
the hard way.
And as a patrol chaplain, Ithink that you deserve to hear
something that is positive andencouraging.
This is part two of my recentconversation with Jake, the
International SecuritySpecialist Guy.
And if you haven't alreadylistened to episode 138 or when
(01:16):
Jake was on the show last yearin episode 117, then stop what
you're doing right now and goback and catch those episodes.
In this portion, we are talkingmore about contingency planning
with your family.
The specific context is what doyou do when you're separated
from your teenagers during anemergency in a foreign country?
(01:39):
But really, this is practicaladvice for an emergency
anywhere, and even in asituation that's not a crisis
yet, but requires some guidanceso that your team is prepared.
Here's Jake, the InternationalSecurity Specialist Guy.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
As you look to be prepared for these situations,
uh one of the things you want todo is what we would call
contingency planning.
A lot of contingency planning isforecasting actions and
behaviors when there is nocommunication.
SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
We're more talking now about what if, you know,
when something happens, you areseparated from your family
members.
You're on this side of town,they're on this side of town, or
for whatever reason you becomeseparated in an emergency.
Having a plan for this type ofsituation, uh, it's very
helpful.
And also it can lower anxiety.
SPEAKER_04 (02:36):
So this is like talking to your kids about a
house fire and how to get outand where to meet outside.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
That's part of it.
That's part of it.
Uh, you have safety trainingthat you would do, which is what
you're describing for a fire.
Okay.
And by the way, I think safetytraining is a great way to start
preparing kids versus securitytraining.
Right.
So with safety training, we cantalk about natural disasters and
different emergencies.
And, you know, there's not thatthreat actor that we're
(03:09):
discussing with family membersand things like that.
So I'm a big fan of startingyour family on your young family
on safety training and thenmoving into security training.
But a lot of it does cross overfor sure.
Okay.
Um starting, you know, we cantalk about satellite phones and
in-reach devices and all theseways to stay in communication.
SPEAKER_04 (03:31):
Define that term in reach device.
What do you mean by that forpeople who don't know?
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
Enreach device is a Garmin, yeah, it's a Garmin
device that is basicallysatellite messaging.
Okay.
Versus voice calls.
Okay.
I have these devices, I travelwith them sometimes.
We could talk about other thingslike air tags and tracking apps
and and all that stuff.
But at a basic level, if thereis an emergency and you reach
(04:01):
out to try to get a hold ofanother uh travel, travel
partner, team member, familymember, and they're not
communicating back to you, it'sprobably not because you got a
message on your phone that saysthe government shut the cell
phones off.
That that happens, but mostlikely it's because that other
(04:22):
family member has their volumeturned down.
Right.
Or they're or their phone'sdead.
Yeah.
And your cell phone is yourprimary means of communication
when you're traveling.
And the there are, you know, Istart talk about panic or uh
paranoia.
I'm one of those guys that whenmy cell phone gets to 80%, I
(04:42):
start becoming paranoid andstart looking for a charger.
You know, you you have my wifeis on the other end of the
bellcur.
Right, right.
And she runs around on six,seven per percent and just
completely have to.
SPEAKER_04 (04:57):
See, that that gives me anxiety.
I can't do I can't stand that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
So as a great stocking stuffer, Christmas
gift, because by the way, guys,we should be putting stuff in
the in the stockings too.
Yeah.
A battery bank is a greatstocking stuffer for this type
of thing.
Because if you have that on you,then you're you're very likely
to be able to keep your phonecharged.
(05:24):
If it's fine when you're in yourhotel room and you can plug the
thing in, you'll probably havepower, but you may not want to
be in your hotel room.
You may want to be on the roofso you can see what's happening.
Yeah, you may want to betraveling to the airport.
Right.
You may want, you may be hidingsomewhere if there is some kind
of a crisis.
And it's pretty stressful to besending messages and receiving
(05:46):
messages and gettinginformation, and then you're
watching that phone slowly die,and you know you're gonna lose
that.
SPEAKER_04 (05:52):
Yeah, the last few times I've traveled with my uh
my kids, my my teenagers andadult kids, I've I've hand them
each a battery bank.
I'm just like, here, this isyou, this is yours for the next
week, and uh keep this with you.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Now now you got an improvised weapon with you, too.
SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
That's true.
That's true.
That's a heavy, heavy littleitem that you could could use to
your advantage.
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
So I'm a big fan of having that because it makes a
big difference.
But this does us no good if wewe reach out and we're not
getting a response back in anemergency.
Uh and so a lot of times whenwe'll go to a mall or a market
overseas or something like that,and we know we're gonna split
(06:37):
up, it's me being the leader ofthe group or the leader of the
family that just tellseverybody, okay, uh, let's turn
the volumes up on our phone.
Yeah.
And doing that one simple thinggreatly increases your chances
of being able to communicate,not just in an emergency, but
just when you're trying to comeback together and regain it,
(06:58):
gain accountability to eat lunchor do anything else.
Yeah.
Uh so this is a great startingpoint because yeah, you can also
use tracking apps.
I mean, people feel differentlyabout that.
But tracking apps, they canlower anxiety or they can
increase anxiety.
Right.
I think a lot of times when youjust put the kid on the tracking
(07:20):
app, they learn that you knowwhat, they know where I'm at, so
I don't need to look at my phoneand and it's fine.
Uh that that's a very familycultural thing.
I think tracking apps can begood if if you you're running in
different directions becausethere's some kind of explosion
or some kind of emergency orsomething's happening.
And maybe, maybe I can look onthe phone and see where my my
(07:41):
kid is or my spouse, and I cango find them even if they're not
answering the phone.
But they they have limitations.
Sure.
And if you're looking at asituation where there is no
phone, whether whether you ranfrom your table and you left
your bag sitting there in anemergency, or uh the government
(08:06):
has shut the the cell towerdown, or the cell tower no
longer exists based on what'shappening.
Now you're looking atcontingency planning, or what we
would say establishing emergencymeeting locations.
SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
Yeah, my family, we had uh four of us in a town in
Mexico we had never been to, andwe're in this kind of central
plaza area, and there's foodvendors and people coming in
setting up for concerts and justcoming and going and whatever,
stores to disappear into, andwe're like, look, this big
Christmas tree thing, we're allwe're all meeting back here, and
(08:42):
so this is this is where we'regoing to.
And that's that's your classicrally point, right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, and we did this instinctively throughout
human history, but somehow we'velost this with our modern
technology.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
It's so simple, it's so basic, but it but it's it's I
mean, and we picked the tallestthing in the plaza.
It's like, okay, fromeverywhere, if you can step
outside, you can see this giantChristmas tree thing.
This is visible from blocksaway.
Come here.
This is where we're meetingbefore we leave.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
That would be what we would call a good primary
meeting place or rally point.
Okay.
Uh, and that's great if that isa safe place.
Ah.
But it might not be.
In almost all cases, it will.
Too visible.
SPEAKER_03 (09:28):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Okay.
Yeah.
So if it's a great primarymeeting place for most
emergencies.
But if we're really getting intocontingency planning, sometimes
it's good to have a secondaryone that that meets a different
need if there's more of aphysical threat in that area.
In other words, if the Christmastree isn't safe, where else are
(09:51):
we going to meet up?
And now you're you're lookingfor different features.
You may be looking for somewherethat has cover concealment, a
place to hide, uh, or or there'sbetter security still in that
nearby area.
SPEAKER_04 (10:05):
Okay.
Okay.
So instead of out in the plaza,you may be like, no, we're going
to meet back behind this church,or we're going to meet down in
that basement shoe store orsomewhere that you can get to
easily at night, that maybe youcould get to even if you had a
limited injury that that you canfind.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Okay.
So not up ten flights of stairs.
Right.
Right.
Okay.
Highly visible is great if we'retrying to find each other.
Right.
But highly visible in that areamay not be good if people are
being targeted.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
So just having that secondaryplace can be very helpful.
And then you know, you couldalso think about having your
(10:47):
hotel, for instance, as a thirdmeeting place or rally point.
In other words, if we're, youknow, if we're trying to get on
the train and one of us doesn'tmake it for whatever reason, but
we don't have any communication,because if we have the phone,
it's fine.
I'm just going to reach out andtext you and we're going to make
a plan and we're going to findeach other.
(11:07):
Send me a pin on the map andI'll come to you.
Okay, that's easy.
But when you're traveling, likeyou said, sometimes people don't
have sales service.
A lot of times I'd travel, I'dhave a SIM card, but my kids
wouldn't.
Right.
You know, it's okay there withme.
Well, it's great when you haveaccountability, but you can lose
that very easily.
And so, you know, we may not beat the market, we may be on our
way to the market, and nowwe've, you know, we've been
(11:32):
separated.
What do I want them to do inthat situation?
And what you really want is tofind a place where the most
vulnerable member of your familycan be comfortable, safe, and
happy.
Because they may be there for afew hours, a little while.
You you could pick any placethat would be a good place for
(11:54):
that, but maybe your hotel wouldbe a good solid option.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then do do they have thecapabilities of getting to that
location?
You know, do they need to carrysome local currency so they can
pay for a cab?
Do they need a credit card?
Do they need a rideshare app?
SPEAKER_04 (12:12):
See, that's what I was going to say.
So many times you may haveteenagers that be like, oh, we
want to go do our own thing.
And it's like, okay, but if weget separated and you had to get
back to the hotel, you don'thave the proper money, you don't
have the proper communication,you don't you don't know, you
don't have the proper knowledgeto get back to the hotel.
So no, you can't be by yourselfin this situ in this particular
(12:34):
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
But but if they were unexpectedly, then how are they
going to mitigate that when theycan't call and ask you for
something and uh they're ontheir own?
SPEAKER_03 (12:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What do you what would you do inthat situation?
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Well, first they need to know where you want them
to go.
SPEAKER_03 (12:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
So that you can find them again.
And that's the point of settingup uh a meeting place or a rally
point.
And then you're just looking at,you know, how do they get there?
So here's another option.
Um, this my son, I he went ohgosh, how much of this story can
I tell?
Uh he went deep deep in thejungle somewhere where uh there
(13:17):
was a lot of risk, and and inthe end uh he he had a heat
stroke hiking in.
He has he has a backpack on,he's traveling for days.
How old was he?
I think he was eight.
He was he was eighteen.
Okay.
And you know, we didn't hearfrom him.
(13:38):
He was with a group of people weknew he was with.
We had some contact with them,you know, peripherally, but we
didn't hear from him for threedays.
Uh which we sort of expected.
But once he got there, so in theend, he uh he had a heat stroke,
he was carried down to a riverand dunked in the river at a
(13:59):
coolie mall before he could becarried to a uh really a bamboo
hospital, and they have a thingcalled a bambulance, and this is
where they take uh a piece ofbamboo and then a a hammock, and
you get five or six guys to justrotate and take turns and carry
(14:20):
somebody.
So he's in a very remote place,but when they dunked him in the
river, his cell phone slippedout of his pocket and ended up
at the bottom of the river.
He's okay now.
He wakes up in the hospital andit's a very, very remote
hospital, but it's um, you know,the problem is he doesn't have a
cell phone.
And he hikes back down to theriver and actually amazingly
(14:43):
found his phone.
I've I've been to that riverbecause I went into the jungle
uh soon after.
And it's a fast-moving river,but somehow he found it.
Well, and amazingly, after threeor four days, it dried out and
started working again.
Wow, which is unbelievable.
Yeah.
But but he now here he is, he'she's at a satellite location to
(15:04):
where he could sign in and sendme a message, but his phone
doesn't work.
So he doesn't remember hispassword to his email.
And he doesn't I don't think heknew my phone number.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
You know, and I don't think he knew the password
to his email.
So he just figures it out how tocommunicate with me all on his
own.
And I receive an email from astranger's email, and the the
headline is This is your sonHunter.
So I see an email I don'trecognize, but I see this is
(15:41):
your son hunter, and I open itup and and there's the message.
Hey, here's where I am, this iswhat happened to me.
Wow.
So even if this was instructiveto me because I thought, yeah,
in in 2026, it really doesn'tmatter where you are on the
planet, there is a way that youcan communicate.
(16:01):
And even if your primary phone,you know, your primary is your
phone and that's not working, ifnothing else, if you just tell
them, hey, go somewhere wherethere's a coffee shop and
internet and Wi-Fi, yeah, and heknew my email address, and that
was all he needed to send me amessage from a stranger's phone.
(16:21):
Wow.
Wow.
So this is this is contingencyplanning that you know you could
roleplay this with a kid or orjust tell him what you expect
him to do if something happens.
SPEAKER_03 (16:34):
What would you put in your kids' hands besides a
battery bank?
Assuming they already have aphone.
What else what else do they needto have in their hands?
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
Well, we have a a shared email account.
The whole family shares anemail.
I created it just so we couldput virtual copies of important
documents and things in there.
Oh.
So everybody has that.
Okay.
Everybody has access to copiesof their passport and and
different things that we mayneed for just basic travel, uh,
(17:15):
basic emergencies.
I can put everything in therefrom you know who I want them to
contact in an emergency tomedical information, uh,
whatever could be important thatthey may need to access
virtually.
SPEAKER_04 (17:30):
So there's a shared Google email and uh connected to
that email is a Google Drive,you know, where there's you know
Google Docs of all these things.
That's a great idea.
SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
Yeah.
And so whatever whatever youdecide to put in there is is up
to you.
But I mean, we use that all thetime, just accessing basic
travel documents to apply forvisas, to uh yeah, anything like
that.
That's excellent.
Okay.
Just drop it in.
SPEAKER_04 (18:01):
So let me ask a different question.
Instead of what you put in theirhands, what do you put in their
minds?
It sounds like they need to havememorized at least a phone
number or a you know, GoogleDrive account.
They need to know that name andthat Google, that Google account
and that password to get toaccess that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Traditionally, people will say memorize a phone
number when you're traveling,because if your phone's taken
away, we don't memorize phonenumbers anymore.
No.
And I think it's good tomemorize a phone number, but if
they're gonna go up to astranger and try to use their
phone, are they gonna be able tomake a call to that number?
And so uh as simple as it is,I'm real big on at least
(18:42):
memorize my email.
Yeah.
Because if both of us haveWi-Fi, we can we can send
emails.
Yeah.
And yeah, I want them tomemorize their password uh so
that they can access theirinformation.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (18:55):
So they can access their email on a different
device.
Yeah.
If they have to borrow a device,can I get into my own email?
And a lot of people can'tbecause they don't memorize
anything anymore.
They don't memorize passwords,don't memorize phone numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
But even if you know, even if they know your
email, they can email you fromsomeone else's email.
But you have to, you have toexpect that that may happen, or
you're not going to open anemail that you don't see your.
SPEAKER_04 (19:19):
Well, I guarantee you the police department IT
people are all telling you, donot open emails from people you
don't recognize.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
And this is where it was so helpful with my son,
where he just put in, This isyour son Hunter.
Yes.
You know, the the necessity ofsolving the problem led him to a
genius solution that in inhindsight seems so simple.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah.
But uh it was not in any of mycontingency planning prior to
him doing it, and nobody hadever discussed it with me, but
(19:48):
he needed to he needed tocommunicate and he figured out
how to do it.
That's awesome.
And also, I was in the MiddleEast during a crisis, and I had
my satellite device and I had myESIM.
I had my eSIM.
Well, the settings were notworking on my eSIM, and uh
because of that, uh initially,because of that, I didn't have a
(20:12):
local SIM card and I didn't havean ESIM.
So I had no connection and Ineeded to activate my satellite
inreach device when I was in thecountry.
And I couldn't do that withoutWi-Fi and I couldn't do it
without line of sight to thesky.
(20:34):
So I had to go outside where Ilost my Wi-Fi.
Now I can't connect my inreachdevice, and the Wi-Fi on my
phone is not working, so I can'tpair with my phone.
It's like, okay, I don't haveany way to communicate.
In hindsight, I realized, wait aminute, my cab driver has
WhatsApp.
Yeah.
(20:54):
He he would be more than happyfor me to make a phone call, but
I didn't even think about itbecause I just thought, well, my
phone's not working, mysatellite device is not working.
But if I would have had a numberwritten down or memorized, and
uh the person I was trying tocontact had either a signal app
(21:16):
or WhatsApp as opposed to just aphone number, I could
communicate very easily.
And so it is good to have aphone number memorized,
especially if you're usingsomething like WhatsApp that'll
work anywhere in the worldbecause almost everybody around
the world uses WhatsApp.
Yeah.
(21:36):
And there may be some sensitiveinformation I don't want to put
out on WhatsApp, but as far asbasic communication goes, it's
great.
SPEAKER_04 (21:43):
Yeah, it's it's the preferred texting app almost
everywhere except the UnitedStates.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
And so start looking at other people as resources.
Yeah, and so having uh you youwhether you think you're gonna
have an international phone planor Or you're gonna get a local
SIM card or an eSIM, don't relyon you know regular text
messaging and phone calls.
Yeah.
With your family members backhome and people you're traveling
(22:12):
with, use something likeWhatsApp or Signal so that it'll
work on Wi-Fi no matter what.
And and someone else doesn'tneed to have an American phone
plan to be able to contact you.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_04 (22:24):
Alright, so once again, I'm going to cut the
conversation right there.
I still have about another thirdof this conversation covering
some more great topics,specifically how to shelter in
place in a hotel and relocatewhile in another country.
But I'm just going to set thataside and use that in maybe a
future bonus episode.
(22:45):
It'll also be fun to see if I'mever able to reveal Jake's true
identity.
I promised him just a little bitof anonymity while he was on the
show because some of his work issensitive in certain countries
and with certain groups.
But if Jake is able to move backto the United States in the
future and maybe is not activelyworking in those things that are
(23:08):
still time sensitive, then we'llbring Jake back on, reveal his
identity, and share more reallygreat stories because he has a
lot of great stories.
Until then, we'll just expressour undying gratitude to Jake,
the International SecuritySpecialist Guy.
On the next episode of HeyChaplin.
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
9-11 turned out to be our son's first day of
kindergarten.
And you know, this story is notspecial at all for all of us
that went through that day, youknow, but everybody's story is
unique.
Uh and a neighbor called me andsaid, Hey, you've got to turn on
(23:54):
the TV.
This is this is crazy.
And like everybody else, youknow, I was just absolutely
stunned and rocked andastonished and grieving.
And I remember seeing aphotograph, it was an iconic
photograph of this man and womanjumping off the top of one of
the towers, and they wereholding hands.
(24:16):
And I heard anecdotally thatthey did not know each other
prior.
They were just two strangerssharing this final moment
together.
And there's something inside ofme, it was almost like survivor
guilt.
It was like, there but for thegrace of God, go I.
And the other reaction I hadwas, oh hell no.
(24:36):
And no, this shall not stand.
No way, this shall not stand.
I was 48 at the time, wanted inthe fight in the worst way,
called all the armed servicesrecruiters, Marines, Navy, Air
Force, Army, and they're like,How old are you?
They weren't they weren'tdesperate enough to start taking
(24:57):
48-year-olds.
Exactly.
Of course, when I told them myage, the next thing they said
was, Well, try the Coast Guard.
All of our coasties willappreciate that.
Yeah.
unknown (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
So, but even the Coast Guard said, You're too
old, man.
Usually's too old.
So shortly thereafter, Iremember reading in uh I lived
in a uh a suburb of LA at thetime, Burbank, California.
And I remember reading in thislocal paper that a lot of these
uh Burbank coppers were gettingcalled up.
They were in the Armed ForcesReserve and they were called up
(25:31):
to active duty.
So they were looking forcoppers.
SPEAKER_04 (25:37):
The views expressed here are the personal views of
the host and our guest, and donot necessarily represent the
views of any law enforcementagency or its components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our city.
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