April 27, 2026 • 28 mins
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Today we're talking again to Phil Reeves. This is part two of my conversation with Phil. In part one we talked about his background, in which he has been a working actor in Hollywood for decades while also serving as a police officer. We talked about the fun stuff last time, here in part two we're going to be talking about the tougher stuff: difficult moral and ethical decisions in leadership, ending a career, and starting a new one as a police chaplain. Phil has become a major voice across the country advocating for officer wellness and the intelligent and professional use of police chaplains. You're going to want to hear the experiences on the street that led him down this path.
Music is by Chris Haugen
Hey Chaplain Podcast Episode 139.5 (Part 2)
Tags:
Police, Acting, Career, Certifications, Chaplaincy, Compromise, Death, Ethics, Imposter Syndrome, Scandal, Supervisors, Support, Training, New Orleans, California, Louisiana
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This is a chaplain's daughter.
Thank you for leaving afive-star rating and a written
review.
It really helps us out.
SPEAKER_03 (00:07):
And my admin basically wanted this guy gone.
Uh, and I was just not willingto uh to do that.
You know, it was he was a youngguy, he had a great career ahead
of him, he had a wife and kids,you know, pension and insurance,
and I was not willing to throwhim under the bus.
(00:27):
And I just actually took somesome training a couple months
ago with FBI Lita with a coupleof great chiefs who were
teaching this class.
And they both talked about, youknow, when you start getting
into administrative, when youstart promoting up, one of the
things you you probably need tothink about before you do is
what hills you might be willingto die on.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:50):
You can bend, but you know, uh to some extent, but
where what's the moral Rubiconfor you?
Yeah.
You never know what that's gonnabe, it or if it ever happens,
but it's something certainlyworthwhile to think about, I
think, in advance.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
(01:28):
LAPD to Scotland Yard.
And they are sharing theirwisdom with you so that you
don't have to learn everythingthe hard way.
Like my daughter said before thecold opening, anytime you give
us a five-star rating and apositive written review, it
really helps the show.
Would you please do that onwhatever podcast platform you're
(01:50):
listening to this on?
And then go to another podcastplatform and do the same thing,
and find us on YouTube and dothe same thing, and then find us
on Facebook and do the samething and Instagram.
The more you do that, the moreit helps.
Today we are talking again toPhil Reeves.
(02:11):
This is part two of myconversation with Phil.
In part one, we talked about hisbackground, in which he has been
a working actor in Hollywood fordecades, while he also served as
a police officer.
We talked about all the funstuff last time.
Here in part two, we're going tobe talking about some of the
(02:32):
tougher things, the difficultmoral and ethical decisions that
come with leadership, ending acareer in law enforcement, and
starting a new one as a policechaplain.
Phil has been a major voiceacross the country advocating
for officer wellness and theintelligent and professional use
of police chaplains.
(02:54):
You're going to want to hear theexperiences on the street that
led him down this path.
Here's Phil Reeves.
How long did you serve acrossyour law enforcement career?
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
So I started in uh I got hired in very late 01 and
then went full-time.
I don't remember when, but Ibelieve it was 04, uh, till
2013.
Was very fortunate.
I was able to promote up prettyquickly.
So I went from patrol the wholetime, but officer to uh corporal
(03:31):
to training officer, uh, andthen I left as a sergeant
because, as you say, our agencywas very small, just 25 sworn.
Our admin was pretty shallow.
So we had a chief, uh, alieutenant, and then like five
or six sergeants.
So sergeants were the watchcommanders on all the shifts.
So I was ended up, you know,being the watch commander on the
(03:54):
weekends uh in my capacity as asergeant.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Not everything was was uh perfect and everything
you wished it could have been asan officer.
Uh tell me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Well, um as you know, uh there are no secrets in
police departments, and I don'tcare how big the agency is,
everybody knows everybody else'sbusiness.
When you're 25 sworn, everybodyknows they know your they know
your underwear size, you know.
Our agency in general um had auh somewhat uh checkered history
(04:33):
in the past, and I actually wentthrough a difficult separation
in in in 2013.
Just very briefly, um, you know,as a supervisor, I had to do uh
annual evaluations for my uh formy team.
And I had a guy on my team whowas a just an awesome police
(04:54):
officer, but had no filter.
I mean, he would tell anybody,and I don't care if you're the
chief, you're the president,whoever you he'd just tell you
straight up what his thoughtsand feelings were.
And if he had something to, youknow, to criticize, he'd say it
straight up, which did not goover well with our admin, but he
hadn't never done anything thatwas, you know, even remotely a
(05:17):
cost for separation.
And my admin basically wantedthis guy gone.
Uh, and I was just not willingto uh to do that.
You know, it was he was a youngguy, he had a great career ahead
of him, he had a wife and kids,you know, pension and insurance,
and I was not willing to throwhim under the bus.
(05:39):
And I just actually took somesome training a couple months
ago with FBI Lita with a coupleof great chiefs who were
teaching this class, and theyboth talked about, you know,
when you start getting intoadministrative, when you start
promoting up, one of the thingsyou you probably need to think
about before you do is whathills you might be willing to
(06:00):
die on.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:01):
You can bend, but you know, uh to some extent, but
where what's the moral Rubiconfor you?
Yeah.
You never know what that's gonnabe, it or if it ever happens,
but it's something certainlyworthwhile to think about, I
think, in advance.
Not that you're hyper-vigilantor you know, uh pessimistic or
(06:22):
um cynical, because I thinkyou've got to always, whether
you feel that way or not, you'vegot to conduct yourself uh with
hope and uh happiness as much aspossible, enjoying your task.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
Um But it but it is possible that you could be put
in a moral situation where youeither have to compromise your
standards or you have to hurtyour career.
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
And you know, I was very fortunate because I had
this whole other life.
So it wasn't like uh if I leftlaw enforcement, I it wasn't
like I needed the job and neededthe income, and it was the only
thing I could do.
So I was and I recognized at thetime exceedingly fortunate in
that regard.
Yeah.
Perhaps that, you know, gave mea little extra backbone, I don't
know, but uh, you know, I wasnot willing to uh you were not
(07:15):
going to change someone'sevaluation.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (07:19):
Yeah.
In an unfair and untowardmanner.
Uh just wasn't the right thingto do.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
And so I left.
Let's clarify that.
Let's clarify that.
You you would not change theirevaluation, and so that meant
you would be punished becausethey were going to retire you.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
That's right.
Yes.
They wanted they wanted me gone,essentially.
Right.
Uh after that.
Interestingly enough, the kindof golden parachute retirement
happened as a result of as theinvestigations went forward into
my conduct and so forth, it itbecame clear that admin was
(07:58):
doing some ontoward things.
Let me put it that way.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Ultimately, all your eyes were dotted.
Your T so you've told me thisstory offline, and we're being
very careful not to get into anyof the weeds here.
But your eyes were dotted, yourT's were crossed.
Yes.
When they came after you, youhad all your affairs in order.
You everything, everything wascorrect, and so ultimately the
(08:22):
worst they could do was retireyou.
Exactly.
Okay.
Exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
And I won't make you sayanything else.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Gotcha.
Thank you.
But but that does, it is causefor reflection.
Uh, because you went throughthis and several other things in
your career that were difficultto endure as an officer, as a
(08:44):
human, as a human being.
It just is like, man, I thatthis is a difficult moral
decision.
This is a tremendous stress tobe under.
Uh, what did that lead to then?
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Even though my separation, I think, was uh
righteous on my part, and I feltactually good about how I
conducted things.
Uh, as I mentioned to you, youknow, leaving patrol, leaving
policing, I yeah, I felt likesomebody just shot my dog.
I I was just, it was reallytough for me.
(09:17):
And I uh this was not at the endof some 30-year career, but I
just uh I just love the work.
You can do so much good as apolice officer for people.
Yeah.
So much good in ways that youcan't even know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:33):
Uh will affect people positively for the rest
of their lives.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:37):
Um, and I could just every cop hearing this right now
can probably in their own mindthink of a bunch of incidents
that they've been involved withfor which that is true.
Yeah.
So I really had to take sometime to um get over that hurt
and that pain.
Uh as I mentioned to you before,it was in hindsight, once I
became chaplain, looking back2020, it was one of those uh I
(10:00):
could have used the chaplainmoments.
Yeah.
Because actually, in the meetingthat I had with admin uh when
they basically suspended me, Iwished I'd had a chaplain that I
could have called into thatmeeting, who could have just sat
there and been kind of a moralcompass to listen to this
conversation and not sayanything, not take sides, but
(10:23):
just being there as a moral, asa moral presence.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Even to go and talk to someone later and debrief in
a privileged environment wherewhere that's safe to talk to
that person, that would havebeen tremendously helpful for
you to digest all of this.
100%.
SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
100%.
And I mean, even having hadthat, I think, would have helped
my metabolizing those eventslater after I'd separated.
Maybe it would have gone quickeror more smoother or less, you
know, it would have just beeneasier.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:57):
Um, to have some kind of moral triangulation.
I felt one of the most difficultparts of it was I felt
completely isolated.
Yeah.
You know, people that were hadbeen friends of mine were
talking to me.
You know, these were peoplethat, you know, covered my six
and I covered theirs.
Yeah.
I uh took some time to uh, youknow, decompress and sort all
(11:20):
this stuff out.
And then some years later in2017, um, the I ran across
something, I forget where I readsomewhere, that LA County was
looking for chaplains to workwith patrol, not with to work
with their incarcerated folks,but to work with patrol, with
the line folks.
And I thought, hey, you knowwhat?
Having been through what I'vebeen through, uh, and even as a
(11:43):
supervisor, you're kind of aspiritual advisor in a way.
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
Uh, you're a mentor and you are whether you know it
or not.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
Exactly.
Absolutely.
And um, so I thought, hey, maybethis is a way that I could pay
it forward a little bit.
That kind of caused me to lookback at times in my patrol days,
uh, when I thought, hindsightbeing 2020, in that incident, I
could have used a chaplain.
I could have used a chaplainwhen this happened.
(12:11):
And actually, I that's when Ispeak to uh folks about the
importance of chaplaincy embedin law enforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Yeah, you've got several stories that you tell.
I'd I'd like to hear them againif you'd tell them again now.
SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
The first one was I was working days, I got a call
of a man down in this area.
So I I'm I'm going in there andI'm looking around, and I can't,
there's nobody.
I can't find anything.
So I'm I'm driving along and Ijust look to my side and I see a
guy in a yard, and he's he'she's lying there.
So I'm like, oh, this must beit.
So I got on my unit and I go up,and it's one of these places
(12:50):
that stores these big, hugedumpsters that you hydraulically
lift on these cables up onto theback of a flatbed, right?
Like a trash dumpster typeplace.
And these cables are two inch,three-inch cables.
Well, this guy, while he wasworking with this, a cable had
snapped and hit him in the headand and mortally injured him.
(13:15):
I could tell immediately, Imean, he was not all there, you
know, and uh, you know, theagonal breathing and all that
stuff, and I knew that he wasdying.
And uh I rolled fire uh an EMS,but they couldn't find it.
They couldn't find where wewere, and I went through this
(13:37):
process of do I leave this guyhere alone in his last moments
to go flag down EMS who weren'tprobably not gonna be able to do
anything for him, or just orjust sit with him here.
Now I don't know how much he waseven aware that I was there, but
that's what I chose to do.
I chose to sit with him as hedied.
(13:59):
And um that really stuck withme.
I could have used a chaplain totalk about, hey, was that the
right choice?
Uh, you know, um help me helpme.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
It is a it is a poignant thing.
I've done it.
It is a poignant thing to be theonly person with someone who's
dying.
Yes, and that it it it itaffects you, whether you're a
religious person or not.
It is absolutely right, andparticularly a total stranger,
just a total, total stranger.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
Um, another time uh I was working nights as usual,
got a heard about a call to ourhighway patrol about an accident
on the freeway.
Middle of the night, January,rainy and cold, go bombing out
there, and I pull up on a car.
There were two women and threechildren in this car, and they
(14:53):
were out of their mindshysterical.
And what had happened is themale driver, they'd had a flat
and they pulled off, and themale driver had stepped out of
the car, and there was a lip onthe edge of the pavement of the
freeway, and he kind of trippedover it right into the path of
an oncoming big rig that struckhim and killed him.
And he was what his body was waydown the freeway there.
(15:14):
Yeah, just totally destroyed.
Yeah.
But this had happened right infront of this family.
You know, CHP took a while toget there.
You know, they were busy on arainy bad night on the freeways.
So I ended up loading all thesefolks in my squad car and taking
them back to the station.
And on the way back, uh, it justsomehow occurred to me, I had
(15:37):
dispatched, hey, I knew we had achaplain.
I'd never dealt with him before.
I heard he was around somewhere.
I said, Do we have a chaplain?
Yeah.
He was a deacon at our localCatholic church.
Call him.
I need him, have him meet me atthe station.
So that's what happened.
I stayed with his family, andthey were just out of their
minds, uh, and understandablyso.
(15:58):
And in through the front doorcomes this poor chaplain, and
he, his eyes got to be the sizeof saucers because I'm like, I
was done, I didn't know how todeal with any of this stuff as a
cop.
You know, I'm sitting in thelobby with these people that are
just completely distraught andgrieving and in shock.
And I said, Chaplain, thanks forcoming.
Good luck.
I'll see you later.
(16:18):
Yeah.
If you need me, just letdispatch know.
And off I went.
Yeah.
And the third incident happenednot long before I retired.
We had an active shooting justbefore Christmas at a large
corporate headquarters in ourcity.
And I don't know if you've everbeen involved with an active
shooting, but they are uh, it'sparticularly in large, you know,
(16:42):
with a lot of people around,they are just massive incidents
because you've got, you know,you got the shooter, you've got
victims, you have witnesses.
So we roll up to this place, andyou know, dozens and dozens of
people are coming running out,and you don't know whether
they're uh witnesses or victims,or maybe there are other active
shooters involved.
(17:02):
You don't know what's what.
And what it turned out that thisguy had been um, the shooter had
been uh skipped over for apromotion and had brought a
bunch of guns to the Christmasparty and went out to his car,
got the guns and came in andshot all the people, you know,
his boss and all the people hefelt had had done him, done him
wrong, and that ended up killinghimself by the time our team got
(17:24):
to him.
But we had to keep everybody onscene um, you know, and get
their statements.
We had to, you know, it was awhole big investigatory process.
The whole world shows up atthese things too.
I had FBI agents, you know,popping out of bushes with their
little toys are us badges, youknow.
How did you get here?
Have you been hiding in thatbush for a week?
(17:45):
Yeah.
Um thank God.
I appreciated them very much foreverybody being there.
But, you know, looking back,could have used a chaplain just
to be with those people.
And then the death notificationsafterwards.
I mean, this was uh, you know,16, 20 hour day it ended up.
And then just dealing with, youknow, the the the entry team
that had to deal with all theyou know people that had been
(18:07):
been killed and all the rest ofthat stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
Yeah, you could help the help the victims, help the
officers who've been exposed tothis, help with death
notifications, help withdebriefs, uh, yes, everything.
SPEAKER_03 (18:19):
Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.
So those are my three, couldhave used the chaplain stories,
hindsight being 2020.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Yeah.
Nowadays you are uh not only achaplain uh for LA County, but
you also help other people setup chaplaincy and that kind of
thing.
Tell me about that briefly.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
When I started in chaplaincy, um I had a massive
case of imposter syndrome.
Because I I did not know reallywhat chaplains did.
Yeah, and um, and neither did myagency.
Uh and I tell you chaplainsstarting out, um, that's a
(19:00):
two-edged sword.
Um, on the one hand, the badside is they don't know who you
are and what you're doing there.
On the good side, you can makeyour practice and your ministry
whatever you want it to be.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
Uh so that's that's for a good chaplain, that
freedom is great.
For a bad chaplain, that's abad, that's a dangerous
combination.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Exactly.
And I sussed that out prettysoon.
I realized pretty early on thatpeople have put a lot of trust
in you and confidence, andthey're telling you about the
the sometimes the deepest anddarkest things in their lives.
And you you can uh chaplain cancause harm, definitely, if you
if you don't know what your laneis and you get ahead of your
skis and you don't keep thehumility of being able to say,
(19:42):
hey, you know what?
I I need to this person needssomething more than I can offer.
They need to go to a clinicianor they need to go to you know a
12-step program or you know,some something to people that
can help them in ways that I canthat I can.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
A lot, a lot of chaplaincy is doing triage.
You know, you're you're not theyou're not the hero that there
to save the day.
You're just triage and helpingpeople get on to where they will
get help a lot of people.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (20:08):
Yeah, or as I call it, you're a Rollodex on two
legs.
Yes, yes, yeah.
You keep all of these resourcesand you go, oh, this guy can
help you.
You know, this culturallycompetent clinician can help
you, or this, you know, rightmentor, or even a peer support
person that might be just you,you something about that person
you're dealing with, go, hey,you know what?
This this would be a good matchto go talk to, you know, John
(20:31):
Smith over here.
There's just I think there'd bea symbiosis there.
So I decided shortly afterbecoming a chaplain that I
wanted to try to get the highestquality training I could, did a
lot of research about it becauseI didn't know anything about it,
and discovered that if youwanted to be a professional
chaplain, either in the militaryor uh in healthcare these days,
(20:54):
um, you had to become boardcertified.
And board certification as achaplaincy requires getting a
master's in theology or anequivalent, and then doing um
four units or 1,600 hours of aprocess called clinical pastoral
education, which is basically ahighfalutin word for a clinical
(21:15):
internship.
It's a supervised professionalclinical internship.
So I did that.
I went and got my master's uh atthe University of Dallas and um
then got my CPE sat before aboard, got got the thumbs up,
and became board certified.
With I was board certifiedthrough the a group called the
National Association of CatholicChaplains.
(21:37):
And they all of these umaccrediting board chaplaincy
board certificationorganizations are starting to
get more applications for publicsafety chaplaincy, which is
great.
There's something in the air.
I think there's something goingon where there's more interest
in this.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
So I've ended up helping the NACC and some other
folks develop uh attract.
Towards certainly improving thekind of ad hoc hit and miss
training that a lot of chaplainshave now, steering it into a
more acknowledged, uh nationallystandardized, professionalized
(22:15):
avenue, providing umcredentialing that police
agencies can rely upon whenthey're sussing out a new
chaplain.
Because, you know, our agenciesare secular institution,
government institution.
Someone applies to them as achaplain, and the agency doesn't
know is this a good person or abad person?
(22:36):
Right.
And if the chaplain is weird,they may think, well, that's
just how chaplains are.
Chaplains are just weird people.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
And we have to weed out the weirdos because 100%.
This is not a criticism of thechaplains who maybe don't have
super advanced degrees orcredentialing that that they
just weren't able to get, butthey're nevertheless very good
and effective chaplains.
There are plenty of those we'rein full support of you.
Amen.
But but the weirdos sneak in andand and every weirdo costs us,
(23:08):
you know, that there arechaplain programs that get shut
down in agencies because of oneweirdo.
Exactly.
And so we have to try to filterout some of the people who are
just not there for the rightreasons.
Absolutely.
They have no aptitude for it.
And some of those people haveadvanced degrees and whatever,
but they still they have noaptitude, they have no, they do
(23:31):
not have the right motive.
And and what you're pushing for,and what I pushed for when you
and I were presenting togetherfor the IACP is is raising our
expectations of what we want achaplain to be.
And one of the things isapplying some of these filters
that you were talking about.
SPEAKER_03 (23:48):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
As I've said many times,ordination does not necessarily
a good police chaplain make.
No.
Right?
No.
Uh but it's not, and it'scertainly not, I'm not talking
about it's by any stretch ofimagination as a disqualifier.
But what uh and the thing aboutthe the the volunteer chaplains
who may not have had any of thistraining or advanced degrees or
(24:10):
so forth, who could be providingawesome service to people.
Those are actually the folks, ifyou say, hey, we want to step up
this game, we want to provideadditional training, we want to
bring back they'll all be firstin line.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
The first on board.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
Bring it on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
I want more training, you know, like any
other, you know, all the goodchaplains I know want more
training.
Absolutely.
And so that that's a test,that's a test right there.
It's like, hey, we're gonnaoffer to send you to some
training.
Are you willing to go?
And if you have someone thatkeeps saying no, that no,
they're fine.
They've already they've alreadycome pre-packaged with
(24:46):
everything you could possiblyneed.
That's a red flag.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
It's like good cops.
The good cops want moretraining.
Yes, they just bring it on,let's do it.
Yeah, yeah, I love this.
Let's I I'm I'm hungry for it.
Yeah, uh, and the same isdefinitely true with chaplains
for sure.
Um, so at this point, um, I'mfinding that I'm spending I'm
still, you know, go to thestation, spend time there.
(25:11):
Uh I I have a a therapy dog nowbrought aboard through Guide
Dogs of America.
So my the the the face of mychaplaincy practice has changed
a little bit because of the dog.
But I'm spending more time, youknow, uh so honored and
privileged to do with you in NewOrleans, you know, talking to
these national uh bodies.
Uh we talked about how the IACP,for example, has um just
(25:34):
advanced a resolution forprofessionalizing chaplaincy uh
for agencies across the US.
And you know, I'm trying to I'mwriting about it and speaking
about it uh because a big partof our chaplaincy that people
don't realize is not only areyou making yourself available
and accessible in presence tothe you know patrol people, but
(25:56):
you're also educating admin andcommand staff about how to
utilize chaplain to theiradvantage, chaplaincy to their
advantage.
And a lot of agencies don'tunderstand that quite yet.
And I'm it's not, I'm not, youknow, I get it.
Uh it's it's it's a new thing,and there's leariness about
church state entanglement and soforth, but it's one of those
(26:17):
things we've talked about, youknow, you and I've talked about
before.
You would explain this to yourblue in the face, to admin and
chiefs and sheriffs and soforth.
They're probably not gonna getit until they experience it.
And once they experience a goodchaplain in their agency,
they're like, wow, where hasthis been?
Why haven't we been doing thissince forever, since Robert
(26:39):
Peel?
We should have been doing thissince Robert Peel.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah.
The military, the military hasbeen, but uh law enforcement's
way behind the game.
Uh in some places.
In some places, there'sexceptions, but uh, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Well, Phil, thank you so much.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you.
I appreciate uh your friendship.
I appreciate what you do forchaplaincy, and I appreciate
(27:02):
your service.
And I appreciate you as anoccasional travel buddy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
Thank you, brother.
Vice versa.
Honored and privileged, man.
God bless you and privileged.
God bless you too, sir.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I want to thank Phil for being on the show.
And again, I want to thank himfor traveling with me to New
Orleans to speak to the IACP.
I also feel like I should give abig thank you to Matt Domiensic.
Matt Domienseik, the tacticalchaplain, he is one of the
reasons that I know Phil.
(27:36):
He and Phil have worked togetheras chaplains, and also these two
Southern California chaplainsand this chaplain from Kansas
City, all three of us have alike-mindedness about how
chaplains should be trained andemployed to improve officer
wellness.
So thank you, Matt.
Knowing you has continued to paydividends over and over again.
(28:01):
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the hosts and
our guests, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement agency orits components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our city.
This is a chaplain's daughter.
Thank you for leaving afive-star rating and a written
review.
It really helps us out.
SPEAKER_03 (00:07):
And my admin basically wanted this guy gone.
Uh, and I was just not willingto uh to do that.
You know, it was he was a youngguy, he had a great career ahead
of him, he had a wife and kids,you know, pension and insurance,
and I was not willing to throwhim under the bus.
(00:27):
And I just actually took somesome training a couple months
ago with FBI Lita with a coupleof great chiefs who were
teaching this class.
And they both talked about, youknow, when you start getting
into administrative, when youstart promoting up, one of the
things you you probably need tothink about before you do is
what hills you might be willingto die on.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:50):
You can bend, but you know, uh to some extent, but
where what's the moral Rubiconfor you?
Yeah.
You never know what that's gonnabe, it or if it ever happens,
but it's something certainlyworthwhile to think about, I
think, in advance.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
(01:28):
LAPD to Scotland Yard.
And they are sharing theirwisdom with you so that you
don't have to learn everythingthe hard way.
Like my daughter said before thecold opening, anytime you give
us a five-star rating and apositive written review, it
really helps the show.
Would you please do that onwhatever podcast platform you're
(01:50):
listening to this on?
And then go to another podcastplatform and do the same thing,
and find us on YouTube and dothe same thing, and then find us
on Facebook and do the samething and Instagram.
The more you do that, the moreit helps.
Today we are talking again toPhil Reeves.
(02:11):
This is part two of myconversation with Phil.
In part one, we talked about hisbackground, in which he has been
a working actor in Hollywood fordecades, while he also served as
a police officer.
We talked about all the funstuff last time.
Here in part two, we're going tobe talking about some of the
(02:32):
tougher things, the difficultmoral and ethical decisions that
come with leadership, ending acareer in law enforcement, and
starting a new one as a policechaplain.
Phil has been a major voiceacross the country advocating
for officer wellness and theintelligent and professional use
of police chaplains.
(02:54):
You're going to want to hear theexperiences on the street that
led him down this path.
Here's Phil Reeves.
How long did you serve acrossyour law enforcement career?
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
So I started in uh I got hired in very late 01 and
then went full-time.
I don't remember when, but Ibelieve it was 04, uh, till
2013.
Was very fortunate.
I was able to promote up prettyquickly.
So I went from patrol the wholetime, but officer to uh corporal
(03:31):
to training officer, uh, andthen I left as a sergeant
because, as you say, our agencywas very small, just 25 sworn.
Our admin was pretty shallow.
So we had a chief, uh, alieutenant, and then like five
or six sergeants.
So sergeants were the watchcommanders on all the shifts.
So I was ended up, you know,being the watch commander on the
(03:54):
weekends uh in my capacity as asergeant.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Not everything was was uh perfect and everything
you wished it could have been asan officer.
Uh tell me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
Well, um as you know, uh there are no secrets in
police departments, and I don'tcare how big the agency is,
everybody knows everybody else'sbusiness.
When you're 25 sworn, everybodyknows they know your they know
your underwear size, you know.
Our agency in general um had auh somewhat uh checkered history
(04:33):
in the past, and I actually wentthrough a difficult separation
in in in 2013.
Just very briefly, um, you know,as a supervisor, I had to do uh
annual evaluations for my uh formy team.
And I had a guy on my team whowas a just an awesome police
(04:54):
officer, but had no filter.
I mean, he would tell anybody,and I don't care if you're the
chief, you're the president,whoever you he'd just tell you
straight up what his thoughtsand feelings were.
And if he had something to, youknow, to criticize, he'd say it
straight up, which did not goover well with our admin, but he
hadn't never done anything thatwas, you know, even remotely a
(05:17):
cost for separation.
And my admin basically wantedthis guy gone.
Uh, and I was just not willingto uh to do that.
You know, it was he was a youngguy, he had a great career ahead
of him, he had a wife and kids,you know, pension and insurance,
and I was not willing to throwhim under the bus.
(05:39):
And I just actually took somesome training a couple months
ago with FBI Lita with a coupleof great chiefs who were
teaching this class, and theyboth talked about, you know,
when you start getting intoadministrative, when you start
promoting up, one of the thingsyou you probably need to think
about before you do is whathills you might be willing to
(06:00):
die on.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:01):
You can bend, but you know, uh to some extent, but
where what's the moral Rubiconfor you?
Yeah.
You never know what that's gonnabe, it or if it ever happens,
but it's something certainlyworthwhile to think about, I
think, in advance.
Not that you're hyper-vigilantor you know, uh pessimistic or
(06:22):
um cynical, because I thinkyou've got to always, whether
you feel that way or not, you'vegot to conduct yourself uh with
hope and uh happiness as much aspossible, enjoying your task.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
Um But it but it is possible that you could be put
in a moral situation where youeither have to compromise your
standards or you have to hurtyour career.
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (06:48):
And you know, I was very fortunate because I had
this whole other life.
So it wasn't like uh if I leftlaw enforcement, I it wasn't
like I needed the job and neededthe income, and it was the only
thing I could do.
So I was and I recognized at thetime exceedingly fortunate in
that regard.
Yeah.
Perhaps that, you know, gave mea little extra backbone, I don't
know, but uh, you know, I wasnot willing to uh you were not
(07:15):
going to change someone'sevaluation.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (07:19):
Yeah.
In an unfair and untowardmanner.
Uh just wasn't the right thingto do.
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
And so I left.
Let's clarify that.
Let's clarify that.
You you would not change theirevaluation, and so that meant
you would be punished becausethey were going to retire you.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
That's right.
Yes.
They wanted they wanted me gone,essentially.
Right.
Uh after that.
Interestingly enough, the kindof golden parachute retirement
happened as a result of as theinvestigations went forward into
my conduct and so forth, it itbecame clear that admin was
(07:58):
doing some ontoward things.
Let me put it that way.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
Ultimately, all your eyes were dotted.
Your T so you've told me thisstory offline, and we're being
very careful not to get into anyof the weeds here.
But your eyes were dotted, yourT's were crossed.
Yes.
When they came after you, youhad all your affairs in order.
You everything, everything wascorrect, and so ultimately the
(08:22):
worst they could do was retireyou.
Exactly.
Okay.
Exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
And I won't make you sayanything else.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Gotcha.
Thank you.
But but that does, it is causefor reflection.
Uh, because you went throughthis and several other things in
your career that were difficultto endure as an officer, as a
(08:44):
human, as a human being.
It just is like, man, I thatthis is a difficult moral
decision.
This is a tremendous stress tobe under.
Uh, what did that lead to then?
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Even though my separation, I think, was uh
righteous on my part, and I feltactually good about how I
conducted things.
Uh, as I mentioned to you, youknow, leaving patrol, leaving
policing, I yeah, I felt likesomebody just shot my dog.
I I was just, it was reallytough for me.
(09:17):
And I uh this was not at the endof some 30-year career, but I
just uh I just love the work.
You can do so much good as apolice officer for people.
Yeah.
So much good in ways that youcan't even know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:33):
Uh will affect people positively for the rest
of their lives.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:37):
Um, and I could just every cop hearing this right now
can probably in their own mindthink of a bunch of incidents
that they've been involved withfor which that is true.
Yeah.
So I really had to take sometime to um get over that hurt
and that pain.
Uh as I mentioned to you before,it was in hindsight, once I
became chaplain, looking back2020, it was one of those uh I
(10:00):
could have used the chaplainmoments.
Yeah.
Because actually, in the meetingthat I had with admin uh when
they basically suspended me, Iwished I'd had a chaplain that I
could have called into thatmeeting, who could have just sat
there and been kind of a moralcompass to listen to this
conversation and not sayanything, not take sides, but
(10:23):
just being there as a moral, asa moral presence.
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
Even to go and talk to someone later and debrief in
a privileged environment wherewhere that's safe to talk to
that person, that would havebeen tremendously helpful for
you to digest all of this.
100%.
SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
100%.
And I mean, even having hadthat, I think, would have helped
my metabolizing those eventslater after I'd separated.
Maybe it would have gone quickeror more smoother or less, you
know, it would have just beeneasier.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:57):
Um, to have some kind of moral triangulation.
I felt one of the most difficultparts of it was I felt
completely isolated.
Yeah.
You know, people that were hadbeen friends of mine were
talking to me.
You know, these were peoplethat, you know, covered my six
and I covered theirs.
Yeah.
I uh took some time to uh, youknow, decompress and sort all
(11:20):
this stuff out.
And then some years later in2017, um, the I ran across
something, I forget where I readsomewhere, that LA County was
looking for chaplains to workwith patrol, not with to work
with their incarcerated folks,but to work with patrol, with
the line folks.
And I thought, hey, you knowwhat?
Having been through what I'vebeen through, uh, and even as a
(11:43):
supervisor, you're kind of aspiritual advisor in a way.
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
Uh, you're a mentor and you are whether you know it
or not.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
Exactly.
Absolutely.
And um, so I thought, hey, maybethis is a way that I could pay
it forward a little bit.
That kind of caused me to lookback at times in my patrol days,
uh, when I thought, hindsightbeing 2020, in that incident, I
could have used a chaplain.
I could have used a chaplainwhen this happened.
(12:11):
And actually, I that's when Ispeak to uh folks about the
importance of chaplaincy embedin law enforcement.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Yeah, you've got several stories that you tell.
I'd I'd like to hear them againif you'd tell them again now.
SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
The first one was I was working days, I got a call
of a man down in this area.
So I I'm I'm going in there andI'm looking around, and I can't,
there's nobody.
I can't find anything.
So I'm I'm driving along and Ijust look to my side and I see a
guy in a yard, and he's he'she's lying there.
So I'm like, oh, this must beit.
So I got on my unit and I go up,and it's one of these places
(12:50):
that stores these big, hugedumpsters that you hydraulically
lift on these cables up onto theback of a flatbed, right?
Like a trash dumpster typeplace.
And these cables are two inch,three-inch cables.
Well, this guy, while he wasworking with this, a cable had
snapped and hit him in the headand and mortally injured him.
(13:15):
I could tell immediately, Imean, he was not all there, you
know, and uh, you know, theagonal breathing and all that
stuff, and I knew that he wasdying.
And uh I rolled fire uh an EMS,but they couldn't find it.
They couldn't find where wewere, and I went through this
(13:37):
process of do I leave this guyhere alone in his last moments
to go flag down EMS who weren'tprobably not gonna be able to do
anything for him, or just orjust sit with him here.
Now I don't know how much he waseven aware that I was there, but
that's what I chose to do.
I chose to sit with him as hedied.
(13:59):
And um that really stuck withme.
I could have used a chaplain totalk about, hey, was that the
right choice?
Uh, you know, um help me helpme.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
It is a it is a poignant thing.
I've done it.
It is a poignant thing to be theonly person with someone who's
dying.
Yes, and that it it it itaffects you, whether you're a
religious person or not.
It is absolutely right, andparticularly a total stranger,
just a total, total stranger.
SPEAKER_03 (14:32):
Um, another time uh I was working nights as usual,
got a heard about a call to ourhighway patrol about an accident
on the freeway.
Middle of the night, January,rainy and cold, go bombing out
there, and I pull up on a car.
There were two women and threechildren in this car, and they
(14:53):
were out of their mindshysterical.
And what had happened is themale driver, they'd had a flat
and they pulled off, and themale driver had stepped out of
the car, and there was a lip onthe edge of the pavement of the
freeway, and he kind of trippedover it right into the path of
an oncoming big rig that struckhim and killed him.
And he was what his body was waydown the freeway there.
(15:14):
Yeah, just totally destroyed.
Yeah.
But this had happened right infront of this family.
You know, CHP took a while toget there.
You know, they were busy on arainy bad night on the freeways.
So I ended up loading all thesefolks in my squad car and taking
them back to the station.
And on the way back, uh, it justsomehow occurred to me, I had
(15:37):
dispatched, hey, I knew we had achaplain.
I'd never dealt with him before.
I heard he was around somewhere.
I said, Do we have a chaplain?
Yeah.
He was a deacon at our localCatholic church.
Call him.
I need him, have him meet me atthe station.
So that's what happened.
I stayed with his family, andthey were just out of their
minds, uh, and understandablyso.
(15:58):
And in through the front doorcomes this poor chaplain, and
he, his eyes got to be the sizeof saucers because I'm like, I
was done, I didn't know how todeal with any of this stuff as a
cop.
You know, I'm sitting in thelobby with these people that are
just completely distraught andgrieving and in shock.
And I said, Chaplain, thanks forcoming.
Good luck.
I'll see you later.
(16:18):
Yeah.
If you need me, just letdispatch know.
And off I went.
Yeah.
And the third incident happenednot long before I retired.
We had an active shooting justbefore Christmas at a large
corporate headquarters in ourcity.
And I don't know if you've everbeen involved with an active
shooting, but they are uh, it'sparticularly in large, you know,
(16:42):
with a lot of people around,they are just massive incidents
because you've got, you know,you got the shooter, you've got
victims, you have witnesses.
So we roll up to this place, andyou know, dozens and dozens of
people are coming running out,and you don't know whether
they're uh witnesses or victims,or maybe there are other active
shooters involved.
(17:02):
You don't know what's what.
And what it turned out that thisguy had been um, the shooter had
been uh skipped over for apromotion and had brought a
bunch of guns to the Christmasparty and went out to his car,
got the guns and came in andshot all the people, you know,
his boss and all the people hefelt had had done him, done him
wrong, and that ended up killinghimself by the time our team got
(17:24):
to him.
But we had to keep everybody onscene um, you know, and get
their statements.
We had to, you know, it was awhole big investigatory process.
The whole world shows up atthese things too.
I had FBI agents, you know,popping out of bushes with their
little toys are us badges, youknow.
How did you get here?
Have you been hiding in thatbush for a week?
(17:45):
Yeah.
Um thank God.
I appreciated them very much foreverybody being there.
But, you know, looking back,could have used a chaplain just
to be with those people.
And then the death notificationsafterwards.
I mean, this was uh, you know,16, 20 hour day it ended up.
And then just dealing with, youknow, the the the entry team
that had to deal with all theyou know people that had been
(18:07):
been killed and all the rest ofthat stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (18:09):
Yeah, you could help the help the victims, help the
officers who've been exposed tothis, help with death
notifications, help withdebriefs, uh, yes, everything.
SPEAKER_03 (18:19):
Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.
So those are my three, couldhave used the chaplain stories,
hindsight being 2020.
SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
Yeah.
Nowadays you are uh not only achaplain uh for LA County, but
you also help other people setup chaplaincy and that kind of
thing.
Tell me about that briefly.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
When I started in chaplaincy, um I had a massive
case of imposter syndrome.
Because I I did not know reallywhat chaplains did.
Yeah, and um, and neither did myagency.
Uh and I tell you chaplainsstarting out, um, that's a
(19:00):
two-edged sword.
Um, on the one hand, the badside is they don't know who you
are and what you're doing there.
On the good side, you can makeyour practice and your ministry
whatever you want it to be.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
Uh so that's that's for a good chaplain, that
freedom is great.
For a bad chaplain, that's abad, that's a dangerous
combination.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Exactly.
And I sussed that out prettysoon.
I realized pretty early on thatpeople have put a lot of trust
in you and confidence, andthey're telling you about the
the sometimes the deepest anddarkest things in their lives.
And you you can uh chaplain cancause harm, definitely, if you
if you don't know what your laneis and you get ahead of your
skis and you don't keep thehumility of being able to say,
(19:42):
hey, you know what?
I I need to this person needssomething more than I can offer.
They need to go to a clinicianor they need to go to you know a
12-step program or you know,some something to people that
can help them in ways that I canthat I can.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
A lot, a lot of chaplaincy is doing triage.
You know, you're you're not theyou're not the hero that there
to save the day.
You're just triage and helpingpeople get on to where they will
get help a lot of people.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (20:08):
Yeah, or as I call it, you're a Rollodex on two
legs.
Yes, yes, yeah.
You keep all of these resourcesand you go, oh, this guy can
help you.
You know, this culturallycompetent clinician can help
you, or this, you know, rightmentor, or even a peer support
person that might be just you,you something about that person
you're dealing with, go, hey,you know what?
This this would be a good matchto go talk to, you know, John
(20:31):
Smith over here.
There's just I think there'd bea symbiosis there.
So I decided shortly afterbecoming a chaplain that I
wanted to try to get the highestquality training I could, did a
lot of research about it becauseI didn't know anything about it,
and discovered that if youwanted to be a professional
chaplain, either in the militaryor uh in healthcare these days,
(20:54):
um, you had to become boardcertified.
And board certification as achaplaincy requires getting a
master's in theology or anequivalent, and then doing um
four units or 1,600 hours of aprocess called clinical pastoral
education, which is basically ahighfalutin word for a clinical
(21:15):
internship.
It's a supervised professionalclinical internship.
So I did that.
I went and got my master's uh atthe University of Dallas and um
then got my CPE sat before aboard, got got the thumbs up,
and became board certified.
With I was board certifiedthrough the a group called the
National Association of CatholicChaplains.
(21:37):
And they all of these umaccrediting board chaplaincy
board certificationorganizations are starting to
get more applications for publicsafety chaplaincy, which is
great.
There's something in the air.
I think there's something goingon where there's more interest
in this.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
So I've ended up helping the NACC and some other
folks develop uh attract.
Towards certainly improving thekind of ad hoc hit and miss
training that a lot of chaplainshave now, steering it into a
more acknowledged, uh nationallystandardized, professionalized
(22:15):
avenue, providing umcredentialing that police
agencies can rely upon whenthey're sussing out a new
chaplain.
Because, you know, our agenciesare secular institution,
government institution.
Someone applies to them as achaplain, and the agency doesn't
know is this a good person or abad person?
(22:36):
Right.
And if the chaplain is weird,they may think, well, that's
just how chaplains are.
Chaplains are just weird people.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
And we have to weed out the weirdos because 100%.
This is not a criticism of thechaplains who maybe don't have
super advanced degrees orcredentialing that that they
just weren't able to get, butthey're nevertheless very good
and effective chaplains.
There are plenty of those we'rein full support of you.
Amen.
But but the weirdos sneak in andand and every weirdo costs us,
(23:08):
you know, that there arechaplain programs that get shut
down in agencies because of oneweirdo.
Exactly.
And so we have to try to filterout some of the people who are
just not there for the rightreasons.
Absolutely.
They have no aptitude for it.
And some of those people haveadvanced degrees and whatever,
but they still they have noaptitude, they have no, they do
(23:31):
not have the right motive.
And and what you're pushing for,and what I pushed for when you
and I were presenting togetherfor the IACP is is raising our
expectations of what we want achaplain to be.
And one of the things isapplying some of these filters
that you were talking about.
SPEAKER_03 (23:48):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
As I've said many times,ordination does not necessarily
a good police chaplain make.
No.
Right?
No.
Uh but it's not, and it'scertainly not, I'm not talking
about it's by any stretch ofimagination as a disqualifier.
But what uh and the thing aboutthe the the volunteer chaplains
who may not have had any of thistraining or advanced degrees or
(24:10):
so forth, who could be providingawesome service to people.
Those are actually the folks, ifyou say, hey, we want to step up
this game, we want to provideadditional training, we want to
bring back they'll all be firstin line.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
The first on board.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
Bring it on.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
I want more training, you know, like any
other, you know, all the goodchaplains I know want more
training.
Absolutely.
And so that that's a test,that's a test right there.
It's like, hey, we're gonnaoffer to send you to some
training.
Are you willing to go?
And if you have someone thatkeeps saying no, that no,
they're fine.
They've already they've alreadycome pre-packaged with
(24:46):
everything you could possiblyneed.
That's a red flag.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (24:50):
It's like good cops.
The good cops want moretraining.
Yes, they just bring it on,let's do it.
Yeah, yeah, I love this.
Let's I I'm I'm hungry for it.
Yeah, uh, and the same isdefinitely true with chaplains
for sure.
Um, so at this point, um, I'mfinding that I'm spending I'm
still, you know, go to thestation, spend time there.
(25:11):
Uh I I have a a therapy dog nowbrought aboard through Guide
Dogs of America.
So my the the the face of mychaplaincy practice has changed
a little bit because of the dog.
But I'm spending more time, youknow, uh so honored and
privileged to do with you in NewOrleans, you know, talking to
these national uh bodies.
Uh we talked about how the IACP,for example, has um just
(25:34):
advanced a resolution forprofessionalizing chaplaincy uh
for agencies across the US.
And you know, I'm trying to I'mwriting about it and speaking
about it uh because a big partof our chaplaincy that people
don't realize is not only areyou making yourself available
and accessible in presence tothe you know patrol people, but
(25:56):
you're also educating admin andcommand staff about how to
utilize chaplain to theiradvantage, chaplaincy to their
advantage.
And a lot of agencies don'tunderstand that quite yet.
And I'm it's not, I'm not, youknow, I get it.
Uh it's it's it's a new thing,and there's leariness about
church state entanglement and soforth, but it's one of those
(26:17):
things we've talked about, youknow, you and I've talked about
before.
You would explain this to yourblue in the face, to admin and
chiefs and sheriffs and soforth.
They're probably not gonna getit until they experience it.
And once they experience a goodchaplain in their agency,
they're like, wow, where hasthis been?
Why haven't we been doing thissince forever, since Robert
(26:39):
Peel?
We should have been doing thissince Robert Peel.
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah.
The military, the military hasbeen, but uh law enforcement's
way behind the game.
Uh in some places.
In some places, there'sexceptions, but uh, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Well, Phil, thank you so much.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you.
I appreciate uh your friendship.
I appreciate what you do forchaplaincy, and I appreciate
(27:02):
your service.
And I appreciate you as anoccasional travel buddy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:07):
Thank you, brother.
Vice versa.
Honored and privileged, man.
God bless you and privileged.
God bless you too, sir.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I want to thank Phil for being on the show.
And again, I want to thank himfor traveling with me to New
Orleans to speak to the IACP.
I also feel like I should give abig thank you to Matt Domiensic.
Matt Domienseik, the tacticalchaplain, he is one of the
reasons that I know Phil.
(27:36):
He and Phil have worked togetheras chaplains, and also these two
Southern California chaplainsand this chaplain from Kansas
City, all three of us have alike-mindedness about how
chaplains should be trained andemployed to improve officer
wellness.
So thank you, Matt.
Knowing you has continued to paydividends over and over again.
(28:01):
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the hosts and
our guests, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement agency orits components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our city.
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