June 1, 2026 • 30 mins
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Identical twins but one's a firefighter and the other one is a cop and both have 30 year careers in the same city. That's not a bad premise for a tv show… but it's also the background of the two guests we have on today's show. Returning guest and friend of the show, retired detective Stuart Littlefield, has brought his brother, retired firefighter Steve Littlefield, to talk about the their two paths in fire and policing. These two identical twins have a lot to say about the supposed rivalry between the two services and what it's like to know that your brother is in danger, just down the street.
Hey Chaplain Episode 142 Part One
Music is by TrackTribe
Tags:
Police, Fire, Career, Danger, Detective, Family, Fear, House Fire, Humor, Injury, Risk, Rivalry, Shooting, SWAT, Kansas City, Kansas
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic and I'm achaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplain comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard, fromThailand to Texas, and sometimes
(00:26):
from my hometown of Kansas City.
They are sharing their wisdomwith you so that you don't have
to learn everything the hardway.
And as a patrol chaplain, Ithink that you deserve something
positive and encouraging.
Hey Chaplain is a free resourcefor everyone because of those
supporters who are quietlyhelping behind the scenes.
(00:49):
If you want to help this showreach more cops, chaplains, and
other first responders aroundthe world, please follow the
link in the episode descriptionto support the show.
Alright, listen to this.
Identical twins, but one's afirefighter and the other one is
a cop, and both have 30-yearcareers in the same city.
(01:10):
That's not a bad premise for aTV show.
But it's also the background ofthe two guests we have on
today's podcast.
Returning guest and friend ofthe show, retired detective
Stuart Littlefield, has broughthis brother, retired firefighter
Steve Littlefield, to talk abouttheir paths in fire and
(01:31):
policing.
These two identical twins have alot to say about the supposed
rivalry between the two servicesand what it's like to know that
your brother is in danger justdown the street.
Here are brothers Stuart andSteve Littlefield.
Hello, Steve and Stuart.
(01:52):
How are you guys today?
I'm doing good.
Thanks.
Hi Jared, how are you?
It's good to have you back,Stuart.
You've brought a guest with you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
I did.
I brought my twin retiredfirefighter brother to uh visit
with us today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
That's awesome.
So, so Steve, you were afirefighter first, is that
correct?
Yeah.
How did you get in the fireservice?
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Funny story, I uh got in the fire service.
Um, when I was 21 years old, Iwas working for a beer company
working on their warehouse and Iwas driving a beer truck.
You know, 21-year-old kid,that's kind of what I wanted to
do back in the 80s.
And uh a few years went by andand uh the job was getting
tougher.
I was working 12 hours a day,six days a week, and I knew that
(02:35):
when I'm 50 years old, this isnot what I want to do.
Yeah.
And just by chance, our motherworked for the uh unified
government of KCK, and she wasthere from she started in 1954,
so she'd been there quite awhile.
And this was at the time that ifyou want a city job or a
government job, you kind ofneeded to know somebody to get
(02:56):
in.
You had to pass the test.
Sure.
You needed to know somebody.
And she told us, she goes, ifyou guys, I'm thinking about
retiring, if you guys want acity job, you need to let me
know.
And I thought about, you knowwhat, I didn't want the police
department route.
Um, I'm gonna give the fireservice a shot.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
And I and did you have any background?
Did you have any family that haddone fire before?
No, no, no.
Really?
Okay, okay.
What did it require when youcame on?
Uh, what kind of uh training oror when I came on?
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
You'd be 21.
Um, no felonies, of course.
Um, and that was kind of it.
You didn't even have to be an MTwhen I came on.
Everything else was on the job?
So I went from driving a beertruck to working on a fire
truck.
How long was your fire career?
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
Right at 33 years.
How long before you brought yourbrother into being a first
responder?
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
I think he kind of he was working another job, and
I think he was kind of seeingthe the money to be made and the
hours were good hours.
So why didn't he follow you intofire?
That I am not sure.
Okay, Stuart.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Because I wanted to be a hero.
SPEAKER_02 (04:08):
You wanted to be a hero nobody would like.
So you became a cop, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
For me, I you know, I uh I was working a warehouse
job.
I really enjoyed it, but it onceagain it wasn't something that I
knew I wanted to do when I was50 years old.
And um, like he said, our motherwas the uh city court
administrator, and we'd grown upwith cops.
We had cops come by our houseand visit.
I would go by my mom's office.
(04:33):
There were we always copsaround, and there were um three
cops that were married into ourfamily, and so I was very
comfortable with lawenforcement.
And then uh I had three really,really, really good friends uh
who were policemen in the uh inthe early 90s.
Okay, and I looked up to theseguys and they said, Man, it's a
(04:54):
really good job.
You you really need to come.
And I I liked those guys so muchand I respected them so much
that uh they kind of drug medown the law enforcement path.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
So, how far behind were you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
I came on in '94.
When did you come on?
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
I came on in April of 1990.
Okay.
So you were you were four yearsbehind.
So you've told me a story beforeabout making people give a
second look when you were on thestreet and they weren't sure who
they were seeing.
Because you guys are twins.
Are you identical twins?
Yes, we are.
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
So the I didn't know this.
There was a running joke on thefire department.
Um, I would show up on a firescene to block the street or
help them out.
And apparently the rookies wouldsee me and said, Hey, hey,
what's Littlefield doing here?
And the old heads would say,Well, he's a cop and a fireman.
And I didn't know that foryears.
I found out years and yearslater that these new guys
(05:45):
couldn't tell us apart andassume that he was not only a
firefighter, but a cop on hisdays off.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
They actually thought we were double dipping.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
That's funny.
So which one of you are older?
Five minutes.
Okay, Stuart, Stuart, the policeofficer, is five minutes older
than Steve, the firefighter.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
Best five minutes of my life.
unknown (06:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
But you've had, you've got uh, you came into
service uh earlier.
What was it like to have someonethat close to you be on the
other side of this rivalrybetween police and fire?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
You know, at first it really wasn't, I didn't think
much about it because until Istarted seeing him on calls.
Because my first four years Inever saw him.
And then when he came in, Istarted seeing him on calls, and
they're like, hey, there's isn'tthat your brother over there?
I'm like, yeah, you know, likewe're twins, you know, it was
kind of a rivalry thing, butyeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
How much do you think, uh, Steve, how how much
do you think there was a rivalryin Kansas City between police
and fire?
Were they competitive?
Were they friendly?
What was your perception of it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:53):
Oh, it was friendly.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I don't really wouldn'tcall it a rivalry.
Um, we jacked with people quitea bit.
Well, I know you guys tease eachother.
Well, I mean, I can give you onespecific that I'd been on, he
wasn't on the job yet.
I'd been on about two or threeyears, and I worked up off
Quindera Boulevard, and we ran acall one time, medical call down
(07:16):
the street from the firehouse.
And of course, when we go on tothe scene, we pull up in the rig
and there's ambulance with us,and when we get out, we don't
shut the fire truck off.
Fire truck is sitting thererunning.
Of course, PD showed up becauseit was a domestic violence call.
And um, so we took the patientout, loaded the patient up, and
we went back inside to get somegear, and we come back out and
(07:39):
the fire truck's gone.
Oh no.
So the ambulance has alreadyleft, and we're standing there.
There was only three of us then.
We're standing there with ourbag and we're looking around,
going, what the hell is going onhere?
Well, we looked down the blockand there's two cop cars sitting
there.
And I won't, my captain and thedriver knew what had happened,
(08:00):
you know.
And so they named that, theycalled out the two, the one
officer by name, kind of cussedhim, and we could hear the fire
truck circling the block withthe siren on.
And they even drove by us twice.
And of course, we tried to getin the cop car and they're
locked.
unknown (08:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
So the police had taken the open fire truck.
They took the fire truck for ajoyride, and we're just standing
there, we couldn't do nothingabout it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Now, for people who have never been to Kansas City,
have no idea really what we'retalking about.
KCK has a section that's prettylike urban core, part of the
larger Kans City Metro.
We're we're right across theriver from Kansas City,
Missouri, the main part ofKansas City people picture when
they hear Kansas City.
But then we have a suburban areaand even a rural area.
(08:46):
Where was most of your career infire service?
Oh, urban.
Urban.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So so you're running calls downin the inner city.
Yeah, inner city.
Okay.
And Stuart, as a police officer,where was most of your career?
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Downtown.
At the time we had uh CentralPatrol, West Patrol, and South
Patrol.
Uh Central Patrol is now calledEast Patrol, but that was my
entire career.
That was in my opinion, if youwant to be a cop or you want to
be a fireman, you want to workdowntown in your life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
But it's busy.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Things are happening.
Yeah, yeah.
And it was exciting down there.
So I spent my first four yearsuh downtown midnights on the
midnight shift, which is where Iencountered Steve a handful of
times.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
And then later in your career, detective, homicide
detective, cold case detective,you did all that later in your
career.
And also a lot of that wouldhave been centered in that part
of town.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
It was.
I was a 13-year patrolman.
I did four years on the streets,and then I got selected to be on
the TAC team.
And then I did that until 2007before I took the detective's
promotion.
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
And at that time on the fire service, we had
firefighters, we had drivers,and we had captains.
And then you went up intocommand staff and all that.
Um, I took a few drivers tests,and you had to, it was only when
if there was an opening who gotpromoted.
Okay.
And I studied and I was in themiddle of the road to upper on
the list.
And me and a friend of mine thatI worked with, we were always
(10:09):
right together because westudied together.
Yeah.
And I never really studied hardenough to get promoted because
my thinking was I had a greatgroup of guys, because we work
with the same guys most of thetime back, but we didn't get
moved around a lot.
And I'm like, these guys aregreat.
Why do I want to go anywhere?
For a little bit of money.
It didn't get promoted wasn't abig deal to me.
(10:29):
Yeah.
And I spent 13 years with theexact same five guys.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
Now, in Kansas City, the way our firehouses are
numbered, they're they're anumber.
And if it's it's if it'sfirehouse five or whatever, then
it's called fives.
Yes.
If it's six, it's sixes.
Okay.
Where were you?
I was at fives.
You were at fives.
Worked on five stumper for 19years.
Did either of you or have eitherof you ever second guessed your
choice?
(10:54):
Steve, did you ever think, man,I should have gone the police
route or Stuart?
Do you ever think you shouldhave gone the fire route?
No, I never did.
Okay.
You were always you fired, itwas that was the right pick.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
And it was, yeah.
Stuart.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
So in 1998, they offered uh firefighter jobs to
all city employees.
The I don't know what thereasoning was.
Maybe they just wanted to raisetheir numbers.
I didn't know.
But so I had considered becominga firefighter and transferring
over.
And I went so far as to fill anapplication out.
That is also the exact time thatI was applying to the score
(11:30):
unit, which is a tactical team.
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
And it's a SWAT team or firefighter.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Yes.
And I don't know if the word gotout.
I didn't keep it a secret, but Ididn't broadcast that I was
thinking about applying.
But one of the commanders calledme right after we had finished
the testing process.
And he said, I want to let youknow you're our guy.
We're going to pick you.
And so I thought, man, I want tobe a fireman, but I want to kick
indoors.
And so I stayed on thedepartment and I spent nine
(11:55):
years on the SWAT team.
And really, um, looking back, Idid the right thing.
I had a wonderful career.
I enjoyed almost every minute ofit with a few tragedies
sprinkled in there.
But uh I and I would have beenhappy on the fire department,
but man, I can't imagine notdoing 31 years as a cop.
It was it meant that so thatmeant so much to me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Yeah.
Steve, to the best of yourknowledge, what is the most
dangerous thing your brother hasdone as a police officer?
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Probably the bomb squad.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Just in my view.
Okay.
Like generally dangerous or aspecific incident?
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
Generally dangerous.
Because the lot of the bombs,bomb calls, it depends on where
they were at.
A lot of them were we didn'thave much in the inner city as
far as bomb stuff.
Okay.
Most of that was mid midtown orsouth.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Occasionally you see a like unexploded ordnance or
something like that that they'dhave to go deal with.
But okay.
Okay, but generally dangerous.
Do you know of a specificincident that you would consider
like, boy, I'm glad my brotheris okay after being at a
particular scene or anythinglike that?
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
Uh we had a call one time, a barricaded suspect.
They had chased him.
He was a he was a homicidesuspect.
They had chased him, Casey Mo.
And of course, as everybodyknows you come to KCK, you're
probably not gonna leave.
I mean, they're just PD's prettygood over good over here about
stuff not getting away.
(13:21):
You know, if you come here,chances are you ain't leaving.
At least not in a good way.
And uh they tracked into a houseoff of 11th in Richmond, and um
he was they were going in thehouse, and I remember he was
there, and they had make entryinto the house, and so we got
called for another standbybecause we run a lot of them
with them, you know, when theyever had Barry K suspect.
(13:43):
And of course we knew all theofficers because we worked
downtown with them, you know.
And uh they let us actually getin the van the where they were
recording all the radio trafficand we're able to listen to
everything that's going on.
And I'm thinking, you know, hey,what's I'm kind of thinking,
where's he at?
What's going on, you know?
I had no idea.
Yeah.
Because we're just in the otherend of it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
It almost was worse, not knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Yeah, yeah, because we were once again, we're three
blocks down the road.
Yeah.
In a at a staging area.
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
I'm gonna let you audit your brother, Stuart.
Uh, what was the most dangerousthing you've ever been in?
Well, first of all, generallyspeaking, so I guess we have two
categories.
Uh, generally speaking, was bombsquad the most dangerous
generally?
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
No, because we took so many precautions.
Okay.
Um, you know, um It sure soundsdangerous.
Of course it does, you know.
But uh, I mean, you know, wehave robots and and uh and we
would send those it it and thebomb squad has potential to be
dangerous, um, you know, ifyou're over in Afghanistan.
Uh but but uh we were it was itwas probably one of the safer
(14:45):
things I did.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
But what about specific incidents?
Uh did you have like that storyof the barricade or others that
you know what was thespecifically the most danger you
were in as a police officer?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
You know, random shots fired.
Uh I can tell you that uh morethan three or four occasions,
you know, people shot at me froma distance.
I remember my very, very firstuh 4th of July as a rookie.
Uh and it and if you knowanything about the Fourth of
July, you go call to call tocall to call to call.
I was working midnights byprobably three in the morning.
We had we had handled all themajor calls, and now we're just
(15:20):
going with the fireworks calls.
And I got called up to the northend, north of Quindero, to an
old apartment complex that's waydown in a hole.
And this woman found a bicyclein her yard and she wanted the
police to recover it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
So rookie patrolman Littlefield is doing a prop
report on his bicycle.
Two years later, veteran StuartLittlefield would have said,
Lady, leave the bike, it'll begone in the morning.
So, but I didn't know anybetter.
So I have my clipboard at I'mdoing a prop report.
And off in the distance, I heardpop, pop, pop.
And if you're downtown and youhear that, you play the is it
(15:54):
fireworks or is it gunfire game,and you go by the cadence.
And about the time I realizedthat the cadence were gunshots,
I heard right over my headwithin inches.
And so I think three shots wentoff and three zips went over my
head.
And I screamed at her, get inyour house.
And I jumped in my car and droveaway.
And I got to the end of thestreet and I realized I'd left
(16:15):
my clipboard.
Oh, and it was one of those bigaluminum clipboards with all my
reports in it.
I think I paid 20 bucks for it.
So I went up to this firestation, I called for help.
I told them, hey, I somebodyshot at me, but I got to get my
clipboard.
The entire shift showed up, andwe rolled back down the street
like the Sugarland Express withour lights on, and cars fanned
out, and I jumped out and I gotmy clipboard and I drove away.
(16:37):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Awesome.
Now let me do the reverse.
To the best of your knowledge,Stuart, uh, what was the most
dangerous circumstance that yourbrother Steve was in?
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
I can't tell you what year this was.
Uh my mom got a call in themiddle of the night that he had
fallen through a roof.
And so uh apparently he'd beenup on the roof of a house and
the roof collapsed and hit themain floor and went all the way
to the basement.
So we went to the hospital, KUMedical Center, and I remember
(17:09):
fireman lining the hallway.
Uh and he turned out he wasokay.
Um, and uh, you know, I love mybrother.
We don't have that twin bond, weknow what's going on, but he
told me that story uh later, anduh and he can tell you the story
himself, but his eyes were asbig around as they could get,
and he told me, he said, Ithought I was dead.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Okay, what happened, Steve?
I was out of the academy abouttwo months, one to two months
out of the academy, brand new onthe job.
And I I first started off whenyou first come on the fire
department, they move you aroundthe city, give a different feel
for what's going on because thenorth is different than the
south.
Sure, midtown's different, westis different, it's all
different.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
So suburban, rural, yes, everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Everything I was working out of number nine's
fire station, Leventon Central,and we got a call for a house
fire.
And right down two blocks downthe street off South Bethany,
and and uh no, I take it back.
I I was stationed there, but Iwas detailed out to Armadale.
So I'm down at third in Kansasin Armadale, and we got a call,
so we were the second rig upthere, but this house is
(18:12):
rolling, you know.
It was an arson fire.
And um, of course, getting itknocked down, of course.
I'm brand new, I'm staying withmy captain, and and I'm like a
duck calling him around.
And um we got it knocked downoutside, but it was up burned up
into the attic, so we got up onthe roof to help ventilate the
structure.
(18:33):
So we're up there with an and mycaptain and a driver from
another rig and me were upthere, and my captain had told
me to go down and take a break.
We'd been up there, we'd been atthe house at the scene for
probably 35-40 minutes by now.
So I climbed down and went downto my rig to swap my air bottle
back out, and our battalion ourour operation chief came and
(18:54):
saw, and he knew I was new.
He ripped my butt for not beingup there with my captain.
So I tried to tell him I camedown to to relax and take a
break, and he goes, I don't careto get back up there.
So I put a new air bottle in andI went back up the ladder on the
roof, and I knew as soon as itgot back up on the roof, and I
went to walk around the chimneywhere the other two guys were,
(19:15):
and that's where it collapsed.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Is there any part of that where if you had been more
experienced or followed adifferent procedure, it would
have happened differently, orwas it truly just a random Just
random.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
We had no idea how much underneath it had burned
about where we were at, and thewe didn't realize how bad the
chimney was leaning, and thenthe chimney collapsed, and
that's what created the hole inme and me and the driver uh at
the time from another big TonyMott's.
That's when we rolled it down tothe You rolled that all the way
to the basement.
(19:49):
Yeah.
Wow.
But the crazy thing is it so itand of course I went down and
then he came down on top of mekinda, and I'm bent over.
And of course the fire was about90% out.
It was just a lot of smoke and alot of heat.
Yeah.
But he landed on top of me andthen we got covered with a lot
of the debris.
And like bricks and yeah,everything.
(20:11):
And um when they say scared todeath, I literally was scared to
death.
I thought I was done.
And uh, but the crazy thing isit got super quiet.
I heard no more noise, and thenten seconds later, all I heard
was a lot of yelling andchainsaws and moving stuff to
get us out, and it it seemedlike it seemed like it took
(20:35):
about um five to ten minutes,but it was probably two or three
minutes before they got to us.
Yeah.
Got to us pretty quick and then.
It's a long time to be pinned.
It wasn't a house.
Yeah.
unknown (20:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Well, we weren't really under any we but just did
all the stuff that was on us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
But but I was all bent over, you know, and I'm
brand new and i i is that uhyour most dangerous
circumstance, or were thereothers your brother doesn't know
about?
I had another one where I jackedin my knee up where I I just
fell through a I thought I wasbacking into a at a house fire,
I thought I was backing into abedroom and it was an open door
going down the basement, and Ifell through a set of stairs
(21:11):
again.
Yeah.
That wouldn't it was smoky andthat, but that would just I
buckled my knee and stuff, butyeah.
Okay.
I was able to get myself out ofthat one.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Yeah.
What about your family?
So they've got a firefighter anda cop, and increasingly you had
more family involved and beingfirst responders.
But uh, how do you think likeyour mother, uh, bless her
heart?
How how did she do having oneson's a firefighter, another one
becoming a police officer?
(21:42):
Did you tell her stuff or didyou just kind of okay?
We didn't talk about stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
We have to if it made the news, we'd probably
talk about it because she'dbring it up.
Right.
And we run a lot of stuff thatmade the news, but as far as she
knew, you guys were both backdoing reports and everything's
fine.
We went back and forth, rancalls now, was it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
And and we have a little brother that uh was a
former Secret Service agent.
So and he's living up in Seattlenow.
Uh he's with the Coast Guard.
But so we've always been aroundlaw enforcement.
And my mom didn't get too uh tooconcerned.
I think she grew up with cops.
We've been around them our wholelives.
So, you know, but there's justcertain things you don't talk to
your mom about.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
What about the rest of your family?
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
I I know they're proud of us.
They don't, you know, this isthe great thing about being in a
family of first responders isyou don't get grilled like you
do with with uh, you know, whenI'm with people that aren't
cops, they ask the either thenormal cop questions, you know,
you ever shoot anybody, you everbeen shot?
You know, it gets old.
And and you know, um they we getthe jokes, um, you know, the the
ribbing, which is all goodnatured in, you know, um for
(22:46):
years, you know, the firedepartment, they were either the
basement savers or the canseycans pool department.
You know, we'll show up and turnyour house into a swimming pool.
Yep.
Um and so it that's that wasreally all that that that got
from our family is just jokingaround.
And they uh but they're proud ofus and they talk about us a lot,
and I know that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Us that are in the in the um being first
responders, please or fired, wetalk amongst ourselves, but as
far as the family members, wereally didn't talk about the
calls and stuff we did.
Sure.
If they ask about something,we'd give them a skim over it,
you know.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
Uh you're familiar with guns and hoses?
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
But people aren't necessarily.
So explain what what's a gunsand hoses?
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
So uh guns and hoses is a charity event, it's a
boxing match between cops andfiremen.
And it's a big deal.
People train for weeks.
The fireman wanted me to fightmy brother.
And uh number one, he's a littlebigger than me, and I'm not
gonna fight my brother.
That's that's not happening, andI'm way too pretty to get in a
boxing ring.
(23:46):
But they really, really pushedus, like, and it went on for a
couple of years.
Like, you're gonna fight yourbrother at guns and hoses?
Absolutely not.
But you do go to the fireman'sball.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Uh, I got asked one time to give a prayer at the
fireman's ball, and I ran into apolice officer.
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
My wife is also a firefighter, as is my son, and
uh she has been on the ballcommittee forever, and it she
loves to get dressed up, and Igo and and I like these guys,
they know me.
I've been around forever, and Ihave a great time.
Uh, and there's the rivalry,that's what we teach and stuff.
But uh, you know, and I tellthem, hey guys, stand back here.
(24:23):
I'm gonna go to the bar and I'mgonna secure the scene for you.
You know, I keep all the secondresponders back.
Uh but I we go to the fireman'sball every year.
We just went two weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
And then there's the joke thatyou know why firemen have bigger
balls.
More people go.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
You know, I I do have a quick story about what
they do.
My own personal uh I I was uh adetective.
This wasn't that long ago, uhless than 10 years ago.
I woke up in the morning and mychest felt funny, and I could
feel my heart racing.
And you know, I uh heart diseaseruns in our family, uh, is
(24:59):
rampant.
And so I've always taken goodcare of myself and I've always
been an avid runner.
But I woke up and I felt funnythat day, and I went to work and
I still felt funny.
I just just my heart didn't feellike it was beating right.
And I waited till about 10 inthe morning.
I came on at eight.
And so police headquarters is at7th and State Avenue.
(25:19):
Fire headquarters is just twoblocks away on 6th Street.
And so I went down to fireheadquarters and the the uh the
crew is upstairs.
So I went upstairs and you know,and they, well, what are you
doing here?
And they were teasing me out.
I said, Man, my heart feels kindof funny.
And they started joking around.
And I said, Man, I'm serious.
And a switch flipped, and Iwatched their faces go from
(25:42):
teasing me to all business in amicrosecond.
And one guy set me down, and oneguy got a machine out, and they
got my shirt off, and theyhooked, I mean, and they were it
was amazing to see them go fromone condition to more serious so
quickly.
Yeah, and they put a 12 lead onme, which I learned is a heart
thing.
(26:03):
Um, and they ran my numbers andthey said, Hey, you're fine.
And as soon as they said I wasfine, my heart felt great.
I it went whatever I felt insidewent away.
Yeah, and they didn't tease meand they thanked me for coming
in.
And uh one of them actuallysaid, you know, we make house
calls.
And I was very clear, I'm notcalling the fire department to
the detective bureau to have youtell me I'm fine.
(26:24):
But uh, but that was one of themost, as as simple as that
sounds, was one of the mostamazing spirit experiences I've
ever had interacting withfirefighters.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
But as far as like stories of like with him, the
experience with that, I never Idon't really have one.
Okay, okay.
Um I mean, I've run a ton ofcalls with him.
I mean, and they knew they knewshow oh, I can tell you a call.
So it was cold out.
Uh would have been mid to late90s again.
Pretty common theme.
(26:52):
Domestic violence call, andthere were two female officers
and they're trying to there wasa the female was probably three
times the size of the guy.
The guy's in the house, he gothis butt kicked.
So they had the female outsidetrying to get ready to arrest
her or take her into custody,and they're gonna put handcuffs
(27:13):
on her.
Well, this gal is probably she'sat least 350.
She's big, and she's probablysix foot tall.
She's a big gal.
And one officer has her by thehand, the one hand trying to get
it behind the back, and theother officer has her other
hand.
Well, they got one handcuff onher, and she's whipping the
other officer.
I mean, they can't control thisgal.
(27:34):
And of course, we rolled up fora medical call, and we see this
going on.
So me and my buddy Billy, wejumped off and we just went at
him and we just bum rushed him,and we just bulldogged her and
took her to the ground.
Yeah.
And of course, we're on herback, we got her leg bent up,
twisting her, twisting her foot,and she's screaming.
(27:55):
Nosegots are trying to get herhandcuffed.
They finally got her handcuffed.
And what we didn't realize isthat we when we took her down,
we also took one of the officersdown and she's face down the
snow.
So we're like, I apologize forthat.
Go, no, we really didn't know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
You roll her over, and there's an officer
underneath.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah.
But uh they really appreciatethey did appreciate what we did
for them.
SPEAKER_02 (28:14):
So that's awesome.
That's great.
Uh, I want to thank both of youguys for coming in.
I want to thank both of you forserving our city.
Uh, you both contributed a lot,and I'm I appreciate what you
sacrificed.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Thank you, Jared.
It means a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
I want to thank Steve and Stuart for coming on
the show.
And this isn't the last thatyou'll hear from them.
In fact, part of the reason Ibrought them on the show is
because I knew they had a couplereally good war stories, and
some of those were lengthyenough that I thought, you know
what?
That needs to go in a separateepisode.
So, in part two, you're going tohear more from Steve and Stuart
(28:52):
Littlefield, twin firstresponders, cop and firefighter,
on the next episode of HeyChaplin.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
I think he had a gas mask.
We looked at it later.
I don't recall.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
He did, he had a gas mask.
He was he was a Vietnam vet.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
And so um gas didn't work.
So the next step is to introducesmoke.
And if you understand how smokeworks, so that you would throw
the canister in, and as thecanister burns and the smoke
begins to fill the house, itpushes the oxygen out.
And so you have a choice.
You can come out or you can stayin and suffocate.
(29:28):
So we introduced smoke into thehouse from the back to the
front.
It was my partner and I.
Uh he is throwing the canisterthrough the window, and I'm
providing lethal cover.
And so we kind of made aclockwise move around the house.
And uh, when we got to the veryfront window, we, you know,
(29:49):
anytime you threw smoke in, thecandles would begin to burn.
You'd see the curtains catchfire and glow.
And then pretty soon the smokewould push out the oxygen and
the fire would die.
So we got all the way backaround to the front of the
house, and he put a canisterthrough the window, and the
curtains began to burn like theyalways did.
And then I don't know what wasthere, but something exploded.
(30:10):
Boom! And the front door slammedshut and then slammed back open.
And that fed oxygen into thehouse, and that house went up
like a Roman candle.
SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
If only we had a firefighter here to explain that
to us.
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the hosts and
our guests, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement or fireagency for its components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
(30:44):
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our cities.
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic and I'm achaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplain comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard, fromThailand to Texas, and sometimes
(00:26):
from my hometown of Kansas City.
They are sharing their wisdomwith you so that you don't have
to learn everything the hardway.
And as a patrol chaplain, Ithink that you deserve something
positive and encouraging.
Hey Chaplain is a free resourcefor everyone because of those
supporters who are quietlyhelping behind the scenes.
(00:49):
If you want to help this showreach more cops, chaplains, and
other first responders aroundthe world, please follow the
link in the episode descriptionto support the show.
Alright, listen to this.
Identical twins, but one's afirefighter and the other one is
a cop, and both have 30-yearcareers in the same city.
(01:10):
That's not a bad premise for aTV show.
But it's also the background ofthe two guests we have on
today's podcast.
Returning guest and friend ofthe show, retired detective
Stuart Littlefield, has broughthis brother, retired firefighter
Steve Littlefield, to talk abouttheir paths in fire and
(01:31):
policing.
These two identical twins have alot to say about the supposed
rivalry between the two servicesand what it's like to know that
your brother is in danger justdown the street.
Here are brothers Stuart andSteve Littlefield.
Hello, Steve and Stuart.
(01:52):
How are you guys today?
I'm doing good.
Thanks.
Hi Jared, how are you?
It's good to have you back,Stuart.
You've brought a guest with you.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
I did.
I brought my twin retiredfirefighter brother to uh visit
with us today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
That's awesome.
So, so Steve, you were afirefighter first, is that
correct?
Yeah.
How did you get in the fireservice?
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Funny story, I uh got in the fire service.
Um, when I was 21 years old, Iwas working for a beer company
working on their warehouse and Iwas driving a beer truck.
You know, 21-year-old kid,that's kind of what I wanted to
do back in the 80s.
And uh a few years went by andand uh the job was getting
tougher.
I was working 12 hours a day,six days a week, and I knew that
(02:35):
when I'm 50 years old, this isnot what I want to do.
Yeah.
And just by chance, our motherworked for the uh unified
government of KCK, and she wasthere from she started in 1954,
so she'd been there quite awhile.
And this was at the time that ifyou want a city job or a
government job, you kind ofneeded to know somebody to get
(02:56):
in.
You had to pass the test.
Sure.
You needed to know somebody.
And she told us, she goes, ifyou guys, I'm thinking about
retiring, if you guys want acity job, you need to let me
know.
And I thought about, you knowwhat, I didn't want the police
department route.
Um, I'm gonna give the fireservice a shot.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
And I and did you have any background?
Did you have any family that haddone fire before?
No, no, no.
Really?
Okay, okay.
What did it require when youcame on?
Uh, what kind of uh training oror when I came on?
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
You'd be 21.
Um, no felonies, of course.
Um, and that was kind of it.
You didn't even have to be an MTwhen I came on.
Everything else was on the job?
So I went from driving a beertruck to working on a fire
truck.
How long was your fire career?
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
Right at 33 years.
How long before you brought yourbrother into being a first
responder?
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
I think he kind of he was working another job, and
I think he was kind of seeingthe the money to be made and the
hours were good hours.
So why didn't he follow you intofire?
That I am not sure.
Okay, Stuart.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Because I wanted to be a hero.
SPEAKER_02 (04:08):
You wanted to be a hero nobody would like.
So you became a cop, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
For me, I you know, I uh I was working a warehouse
job.
I really enjoyed it, but it onceagain it wasn't something that I
knew I wanted to do when I was50 years old.
And um, like he said, our motherwas the uh city court
administrator, and we'd grown upwith cops.
We had cops come by our houseand visit.
I would go by my mom's office.
(04:33):
There were we always copsaround, and there were um three
cops that were married into ourfamily, and so I was very
comfortable with lawenforcement.
And then uh I had three really,really, really good friends uh
who were policemen in the uh inthe early 90s.
Okay, and I looked up to theseguys and they said, Man, it's a
(04:54):
really good job.
You you really need to come.
And I I liked those guys so muchand I respected them so much
that uh they kind of drug medown the law enforcement path.
SPEAKER_02 (05:02):
So, how far behind were you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
I came on in '94.
When did you come on?
SPEAKER_02 (05:06):
I came on in April of 1990.
Okay.
So you were you were four yearsbehind.
So you've told me a story beforeabout making people give a
second look when you were on thestreet and they weren't sure who
they were seeing.
Because you guys are twins.
Are you identical twins?
Yes, we are.
Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
So the I didn't know this.
There was a running joke on thefire department.
Um, I would show up on a firescene to block the street or
help them out.
And apparently the rookies wouldsee me and said, Hey, hey,
what's Littlefield doing here?
And the old heads would say,Well, he's a cop and a fireman.
And I didn't know that foryears.
I found out years and yearslater that these new guys
(05:45):
couldn't tell us apart andassume that he was not only a
firefighter, but a cop on hisdays off.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
They actually thought we were double dipping.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
That's funny.
So which one of you are older?
Five minutes.
Okay, Stuart, Stuart, the policeofficer, is five minutes older
than Steve, the firefighter.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
Best five minutes of my life.
unknown (06:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
But you've had, you've got uh, you came into
service uh earlier.
What was it like to have someonethat close to you be on the
other side of this rivalrybetween police and fire?
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
You know, at first it really wasn't, I didn't think
much about it because until Istarted seeing him on calls.
Because my first four years Inever saw him.
And then when he came in, Istarted seeing him on calls, and
they're like, hey, there's isn'tthat your brother over there?
I'm like, yeah, you know, likewe're twins, you know, it was
kind of a rivalry thing, butyeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
How much do you think, uh, Steve, how how much
do you think there was a rivalryin Kansas City between police
and fire?
Were they competitive?
Were they friendly?
What was your perception of it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:53):
Oh, it was friendly.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I don't really wouldn'tcall it a rivalry.
Um, we jacked with people quitea bit.
Well, I know you guys tease eachother.
Well, I mean, I can give you onespecific that I'd been on, he
wasn't on the job yet.
I'd been on about two or threeyears, and I worked up off
Quindera Boulevard, and we ran acall one time, medical call down
(07:16):
the street from the firehouse.
And of course, when we go on tothe scene, we pull up in the rig
and there's ambulance with us,and when we get out, we don't
shut the fire truck off.
Fire truck is sitting thererunning.
Of course, PD showed up becauseit was a domestic violence call.
And um, so we took the patientout, loaded the patient up, and
we went back inside to get somegear, and we come back out and
(07:39):
the fire truck's gone.
Oh no.
So the ambulance has alreadyleft, and we're standing there.
There was only three of us then.
We're standing there with ourbag and we're looking around,
going, what the hell is going onhere?
Well, we looked down the blockand there's two cop cars sitting
there.
And I won't, my captain and thedriver knew what had happened,
(08:00):
you know.
And so they named that, theycalled out the two, the one
officer by name, kind of cussedhim, and we could hear the fire
truck circling the block withthe siren on.
And they even drove by us twice.
And of course, we tried to getin the cop car and they're
locked.
unknown (08:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
So the police had taken the open fire truck.
They took the fire truck for ajoyride, and we're just standing
there, we couldn't do nothingabout it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Now, for people who have never been to Kansas City,
have no idea really what we'retalking about.
KCK has a section that's prettylike urban core, part of the
larger Kans City Metro.
We're we're right across theriver from Kansas City,
Missouri, the main part ofKansas City people picture when
they hear Kansas City.
But then we have a suburban areaand even a rural area.
(08:46):
Where was most of your career infire service?
Oh, urban.
Urban.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So so you're running calls downin the inner city.
Yeah, inner city.
Okay.
And Stuart, as a police officer,where was most of your career?
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Downtown.
At the time we had uh CentralPatrol, West Patrol, and South
Patrol.
Uh Central Patrol is now calledEast Patrol, but that was my
entire career.
That was in my opinion, if youwant to be a cop or you want to
be a fireman, you want to workdowntown in your life.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
But it's busy.
SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Things are happening.
Yeah, yeah.
And it was exciting down there.
So I spent my first four yearsuh downtown midnights on the
midnight shift, which is where Iencountered Steve a handful of
times.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
And then later in your career, detective, homicide
detective, cold case detective,you did all that later in your
career.
And also a lot of that wouldhave been centered in that part
of town.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
It was.
I was a 13-year patrolman.
I did four years on the streets,and then I got selected to be on
the TAC team.
And then I did that until 2007before I took the detective's
promotion.
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
And at that time on the fire service, we had
firefighters, we had drivers,and we had captains.
And then you went up intocommand staff and all that.
Um, I took a few drivers tests,and you had to, it was only when
if there was an opening who gotpromoted.
Okay.
And I studied and I was in themiddle of the road to upper on
the list.
And me and a friend of mine thatI worked with, we were always
(10:09):
right together because westudied together.
Yeah.
And I never really studied hardenough to get promoted because
my thinking was I had a greatgroup of guys, because we work
with the same guys most of thetime back, but we didn't get
moved around a lot.
And I'm like, these guys aregreat.
Why do I want to go anywhere?
For a little bit of money.
It didn't get promoted wasn't abig deal to me.
(10:29):
Yeah.
And I spent 13 years with theexact same five guys.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
Now, in Kansas City, the way our firehouses are
numbered, they're they're anumber.
And if it's it's if it'sfirehouse five or whatever, then
it's called fives.
Yes.
If it's six, it's sixes.
Okay.
Where were you?
I was at fives.
You were at fives.
Worked on five stumper for 19years.
Did either of you or have eitherof you ever second guessed your
choice?
(10:54):
Steve, did you ever think, man,I should have gone the police
route or Stuart?
Do you ever think you shouldhave gone the fire route?
No, I never did.
Okay.
You were always you fired, itwas that was the right pick.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
And it was, yeah.
Stuart.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
So in 1998, they offered uh firefighter jobs to
all city employees.
The I don't know what thereasoning was.
Maybe they just wanted to raisetheir numbers.
I didn't know.
But so I had considered becominga firefighter and transferring
over.
And I went so far as to fill anapplication out.
That is also the exact time thatI was applying to the score
(11:30):
unit, which is a tactical team.
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
And it's a SWAT team or firefighter.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Yes.
And I don't know if the word gotout.
I didn't keep it a secret, but Ididn't broadcast that I was
thinking about applying.
But one of the commanders calledme right after we had finished
the testing process.
And he said, I want to let youknow you're our guy.
We're going to pick you.
And so I thought, man, I want tobe a fireman, but I want to kick
indoors.
And so I stayed on thedepartment and I spent nine
(11:55):
years on the SWAT team.
And really, um, looking back, Idid the right thing.
I had a wonderful career.
I enjoyed almost every minute ofit with a few tragedies
sprinkled in there.
But uh I and I would have beenhappy on the fire department,
but man, I can't imagine notdoing 31 years as a cop.
It was it meant that so thatmeant so much to me.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Yeah.
Steve, to the best of yourknowledge, what is the most
dangerous thing your brother hasdone as a police officer?
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Probably the bomb squad.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Just in my view.
Okay.
Like generally dangerous or aspecific incident?
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
Generally dangerous.
Because the lot of the bombs,bomb calls, it depends on where
they were at.
A lot of them were we didn'thave much in the inner city as
far as bomb stuff.
Okay.
Most of that was mid midtown orsouth.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Occasionally you see a like unexploded ordnance or
something like that that they'dhave to go deal with.
But okay.
Okay, but generally dangerous.
Do you know of a specificincident that you would consider
like, boy, I'm glad my brotheris okay after being at a
particular scene or anythinglike that?
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
Uh we had a call one time, a barricaded suspect.
They had chased him.
He was a he was a homicidesuspect.
They had chased him, Casey Mo.
And of course, as everybodyknows you come to KCK, you're
probably not gonna leave.
I mean, they're just PD's prettygood over good over here about
stuff not getting away.
(13:21):
You know, if you come here,chances are you ain't leaving.
At least not in a good way.
And uh they tracked into a houseoff of 11th in Richmond, and um
he was they were going in thehouse, and I remember he was
there, and they had make entryinto the house, and so we got
called for another standbybecause we run a lot of them
with them, you know, when theyever had Barry K suspect.
(13:43):
And of course we knew all theofficers because we worked
downtown with them, you know.
And uh they let us actually getin the van the where they were
recording all the radio trafficand we're able to listen to
everything that's going on.
And I'm thinking, you know, hey,what's I'm kind of thinking,
where's he at?
What's going on, you know?
I had no idea.
Yeah.
Because we're just in the otherend of it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
It almost was worse, not knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Yeah, yeah, because we were once again, we're three
blocks down the road.
Yeah.
In a at a staging area.
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
I'm gonna let you audit your brother, Stuart.
Uh, what was the most dangerousthing you've ever been in?
Well, first of all, generallyspeaking, so I guess we have two
categories.
Uh, generally speaking, was bombsquad the most dangerous
generally?
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
No, because we took so many precautions.
Okay.
Um, you know, um It sure soundsdangerous.
Of course it does, you know.
But uh, I mean, you know, wehave robots and and uh and we
would send those it it and thebomb squad has potential to be
dangerous, um, you know, ifyou're over in Afghanistan.
Uh but but uh we were it was itwas probably one of the safer
(14:45):
things I did.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
But what about specific incidents?
Uh did you have like that storyof the barricade or others that
you know what was thespecifically the most danger you
were in as a police officer?
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
You know, random shots fired.
Uh I can tell you that uh morethan three or four occasions,
you know, people shot at me froma distance.
I remember my very, very firstuh 4th of July as a rookie.
Uh and it and if you knowanything about the Fourth of
July, you go call to call tocall to call to call.
I was working midnights byprobably three in the morning.
We had we had handled all themajor calls, and now we're just
(15:20):
going with the fireworks calls.
And I got called up to the northend, north of Quindero, to an
old apartment complex that's waydown in a hole.
And this woman found a bicyclein her yard and she wanted the
police to recover it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
So rookie patrolman Littlefield is doing a prop
report on his bicycle.
Two years later, veteran StuartLittlefield would have said,
Lady, leave the bike, it'll begone in the morning.
So, but I didn't know anybetter.
So I have my clipboard at I'mdoing a prop report.
And off in the distance, I heardpop, pop, pop.
And if you're downtown and youhear that, you play the is it
(15:54):
fireworks or is it gunfire game,and you go by the cadence.
And about the time I realizedthat the cadence were gunshots,
I heard right over my headwithin inches.
And so I think three shots wentoff and three zips went over my
head.
And I screamed at her, get inyour house.
And I jumped in my car and droveaway.
And I got to the end of thestreet and I realized I'd left
(16:15):
my clipboard.
Oh, and it was one of those bigaluminum clipboards with all my
reports in it.
I think I paid 20 bucks for it.
So I went up to this firestation, I called for help.
I told them, hey, I somebodyshot at me, but I got to get my
clipboard.
The entire shift showed up, andwe rolled back down the street
like the Sugarland Express withour lights on, and cars fanned
out, and I jumped out and I gotmy clipboard and I drove away.
(16:37):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Awesome.
Now let me do the reverse.
To the best of your knowledge,Stuart, uh, what was the most
dangerous circumstance that yourbrother Steve was in?
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
I can't tell you what year this was.
Uh my mom got a call in themiddle of the night that he had
fallen through a roof.
And so uh apparently he'd beenup on the roof of a house and
the roof collapsed and hit themain floor and went all the way
to the basement.
So we went to the hospital, KUMedical Center, and I remember
(17:09):
fireman lining the hallway.
Uh and he turned out he wasokay.
Um, and uh, you know, I love mybrother.
We don't have that twin bond, weknow what's going on, but he
told me that story uh later, anduh and he can tell you the story
himself, but his eyes were asbig around as they could get,
and he told me, he said, Ithought I was dead.
SPEAKER_01 (17:29):
Okay, what happened, Steve?
I was out of the academy abouttwo months, one to two months
out of the academy, brand new onthe job.
And I I first started off whenyou first come on the fire
department, they move you aroundthe city, give a different feel
for what's going on because thenorth is different than the
south.
Sure, midtown's different, westis different, it's all
different.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
So suburban, rural, yes, everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
Everything I was working out of number nine's
fire station, Leventon Central,and we got a call for a house
fire.
And right down two blocks downthe street off South Bethany,
and and uh no, I take it back.
I I was stationed there, but Iwas detailed out to Armadale.
So I'm down at third in Kansasin Armadale, and we got a call,
so we were the second rig upthere, but this house is
(18:12):
rolling, you know.
It was an arson fire.
And um, of course, getting itknocked down, of course.
I'm brand new, I'm staying withmy captain, and and I'm like a
duck calling him around.
And um we got it knocked downoutside, but it was up burned up
into the attic, so we got up onthe roof to help ventilate the
structure.
(18:33):
So we're up there with an and mycaptain and a driver from
another rig and me were upthere, and my captain had told
me to go down and take a break.
We'd been up there, we'd been atthe house at the scene for
probably 35-40 minutes by now.
So I climbed down and went downto my rig to swap my air bottle
back out, and our battalion ourour operation chief came and
(18:54):
saw, and he knew I was new.
He ripped my butt for not beingup there with my captain.
So I tried to tell him I camedown to to relax and take a
break, and he goes, I don't careto get back up there.
So I put a new air bottle in andI went back up the ladder on the
roof, and I knew as soon as itgot back up on the roof, and I
went to walk around the chimneywhere the other two guys were,
(19:15):
and that's where it collapsed.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Is there any part of that where if you had been more
experienced or followed adifferent procedure, it would
have happened differently, orwas it truly just a random Just
random.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
We had no idea how much underneath it had burned
about where we were at, and thewe didn't realize how bad the
chimney was leaning, and thenthe chimney collapsed, and
that's what created the hole inme and me and the driver uh at
the time from another big TonyMott's.
That's when we rolled it down tothe You rolled that all the way
to the basement.
(19:49):
Yeah.
Wow.
But the crazy thing is it so itand of course I went down and
then he came down on top of mekinda, and I'm bent over.
And of course the fire was about90% out.
It was just a lot of smoke and alot of heat.
Yeah.
But he landed on top of me andthen we got covered with a lot
of the debris.
And like bricks and yeah,everything.
(20:11):
And um when they say scared todeath, I literally was scared to
death.
I thought I was done.
And uh, but the crazy thing isit got super quiet.
I heard no more noise, and thenten seconds later, all I heard
was a lot of yelling andchainsaws and moving stuff to
get us out, and it it seemedlike it seemed like it took
(20:35):
about um five to ten minutes,but it was probably two or three
minutes before they got to us.
Yeah.
Got to us pretty quick and then.
It's a long time to be pinned.
It wasn't a house.
Yeah.
unknown (20:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Well, we weren't really under any we but just did
all the stuff that was on us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:49):
But but I was all bent over, you know, and I'm
brand new and i i is that uhyour most dangerous
circumstance, or were thereothers your brother doesn't know
about?
I had another one where I jackedin my knee up where I I just
fell through a I thought I wasbacking into a at a house fire,
I thought I was backing into abedroom and it was an open door
going down the basement, and Ifell through a set of stairs
(21:11):
again.
Yeah.
That wouldn't it was smoky andthat, but that would just I
buckled my knee and stuff, butyeah.
Okay.
I was able to get myself out ofthat one.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
Yeah.
What about your family?
So they've got a firefighter anda cop, and increasingly you had
more family involved and beingfirst responders.
But uh, how do you think likeyour mother, uh, bless her
heart?
How how did she do having oneson's a firefighter, another one
becoming a police officer?
(21:42):
Did you tell her stuff or didyou just kind of okay?
We didn't talk about stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
We have to if it made the news, we'd probably
talk about it because she'dbring it up.
Right.
And we run a lot of stuff thatmade the news, but as far as she
knew, you guys were both backdoing reports and everything's
fine.
We went back and forth, rancalls now, was it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
And and we have a little brother that uh was a
former Secret Service agent.
So and he's living up in Seattlenow.
Uh he's with the Coast Guard.
But so we've always been aroundlaw enforcement.
And my mom didn't get too uh tooconcerned.
I think she grew up with cops.
We've been around them our wholelives.
So, you know, but there's justcertain things you don't talk to
your mom about.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
What about the rest of your family?
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
I I know they're proud of us.
They don't, you know, this isthe great thing about being in a
family of first responders isyou don't get grilled like you
do with with uh, you know, whenI'm with people that aren't
cops, they ask the either thenormal cop questions, you know,
you ever shoot anybody, you everbeen shot?
You know, it gets old.
And and you know, um they we getthe jokes, um, you know, the the
ribbing, which is all goodnatured in, you know, um for
(22:46):
years, you know, the firedepartment, they were either the
basement savers or the canseycans pool department.
You know, we'll show up and turnyour house into a swimming pool.
Yep.
Um and so it that's that wasreally all that that that got
from our family is just jokingaround.
And they uh but they're proud ofus and they talk about us a lot,
and I know that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Us that are in the in the um being first
responders, please or fired, wetalk amongst ourselves, but as
far as the family members, wereally didn't talk about the
calls and stuff we did.
Sure.
If they ask about something,we'd give them a skim over it,
you know.
SPEAKER_00 (23:19):
Uh you're familiar with guns and hoses?
SPEAKER_02 (23:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:22):
But people aren't necessarily.
So explain what what's a gunsand hoses?
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
So uh guns and hoses is a charity event, it's a
boxing match between cops andfiremen.
And it's a big deal.
People train for weeks.
The fireman wanted me to fightmy brother.
And uh number one, he's a littlebigger than me, and I'm not
gonna fight my brother.
That's that's not happening, andI'm way too pretty to get in a
boxing ring.
(23:46):
But they really, really pushedus, like, and it went on for a
couple of years.
Like, you're gonna fight yourbrother at guns and hoses?
Absolutely not.
But you do go to the fireman'sball.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Uh, I got asked one time to give a prayer at the
fireman's ball, and I ran into apolice officer.
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
My wife is also a firefighter, as is my son, and
uh she has been on the ballcommittee forever, and it she
loves to get dressed up, and Igo and and I like these guys,
they know me.
I've been around forever, and Ihave a great time.
Uh, and there's the rivalry,that's what we teach and stuff.
But uh, you know, and I tellthem, hey guys, stand back here.
(24:23):
I'm gonna go to the bar and I'mgonna secure the scene for you.
You know, I keep all the secondresponders back.
Uh but I we go to the fireman'sball every year.
We just went two weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
And then there's the joke thatyou know why firemen have bigger
balls.
More people go.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
You know, I I do have a quick story about what
they do.
My own personal uh I I was uh adetective.
This wasn't that long ago, uhless than 10 years ago.
I woke up in the morning and mychest felt funny, and I could
feel my heart racing.
And you know, I uh heart diseaseruns in our family, uh, is
(24:59):
rampant.
And so I've always taken goodcare of myself and I've always
been an avid runner.
But I woke up and I felt funnythat day, and I went to work and
I still felt funny.
I just just my heart didn't feellike it was beating right.
And I waited till about 10 inthe morning.
I came on at eight.
And so police headquarters is at7th and State Avenue.
(25:19):
Fire headquarters is just twoblocks away on 6th Street.
And so I went down to fireheadquarters and the the uh the
crew is upstairs.
So I went upstairs and you know,and they, well, what are you
doing here?
And they were teasing me out.
I said, Man, my heart feels kindof funny.
And they started joking around.
And I said, Man, I'm serious.
And a switch flipped, and Iwatched their faces go from
(25:42):
teasing me to all business in amicrosecond.
And one guy set me down, and oneguy got a machine out, and they
got my shirt off, and theyhooked, I mean, and they were it
was amazing to see them go fromone condition to more serious so
quickly.
Yeah, and they put a 12 lead onme, which I learned is a heart
thing.
(26:03):
Um, and they ran my numbers andthey said, Hey, you're fine.
And as soon as they said I wasfine, my heart felt great.
I it went whatever I felt insidewent away.
Yeah, and they didn't tease meand they thanked me for coming
in.
And uh one of them actuallysaid, you know, we make house
calls.
And I was very clear, I'm notcalling the fire department to
the detective bureau to have youtell me I'm fine.
(26:24):
But uh, but that was one of themost, as as simple as that
sounds, was one of the mostamazing spirit experiences I've
ever had interacting withfirefighters.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
But as far as like stories of like with him, the
experience with that, I never Idon't really have one.
Okay, okay.
Um I mean, I've run a ton ofcalls with him.
I mean, and they knew they knewshow oh, I can tell you a call.
So it was cold out.
Uh would have been mid to late90s again.
Pretty common theme.
(26:52):
Domestic violence call, andthere were two female officers
and they're trying to there wasa the female was probably three
times the size of the guy.
The guy's in the house, he gothis butt kicked.
So they had the female outsidetrying to get ready to arrest
her or take her into custody,and they're gonna put handcuffs
(27:13):
on her.
Well, this gal is probably she'sat least 350.
She's big, and she's probablysix foot tall.
She's a big gal.
And one officer has her by thehand, the one hand trying to get
it behind the back, and theother officer has her other
hand.
Well, they got one handcuff onher, and she's whipping the
other officer.
I mean, they can't control thisgal.
(27:34):
And of course, we rolled up fora medical call, and we see this
going on.
So me and my buddy Billy, wejumped off and we just went at
him and we just bum rushed him,and we just bulldogged her and
took her to the ground.
Yeah.
And of course, we're on herback, we got her leg bent up,
twisting her, twisting her foot,and she's screaming.
(27:55):
Nosegots are trying to get herhandcuffed.
They finally got her handcuffed.
And what we didn't realize isthat we when we took her down,
we also took one of the officersdown and she's face down the
snow.
So we're like, I apologize forthat.
Go, no, we really didn't know.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
You roll her over, and there's an officer
underneath.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
Yeah, yeah.
But uh they really appreciatethey did appreciate what we did
for them.
SPEAKER_02 (28:14):
So that's awesome.
That's great.
Uh, I want to thank both of youguys for coming in.
I want to thank both of you forserving our city.
Uh, you both contributed a lot,and I'm I appreciate what you
sacrificed.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
Thank you, Jared.
It means a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
I want to thank Steve and Stuart for coming on
the show.
And this isn't the last thatyou'll hear from them.
In fact, part of the reason Ibrought them on the show is
because I knew they had a couplereally good war stories, and
some of those were lengthyenough that I thought, you know
what?
That needs to go in a separateepisode.
So, in part two, you're going tohear more from Steve and Stuart
(28:52):
Littlefield, twin firstresponders, cop and firefighter,
on the next episode of HeyChaplin.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
I think he had a gas mask.
We looked at it later.
I don't recall.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
He did, he had a gas mask.
He was he was a Vietnam vet.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
And so um gas didn't work.
So the next step is to introducesmoke.
And if you understand how smokeworks, so that you would throw
the canister in, and as thecanister burns and the smoke
begins to fill the house, itpushes the oxygen out.
And so you have a choice.
You can come out or you can stayin and suffocate.
(29:28):
So we introduced smoke into thehouse from the back to the
front.
It was my partner and I.
Uh he is throwing the canisterthrough the window, and I'm
providing lethal cover.
And so we kind of made aclockwise move around the house.
And uh, when we got to the veryfront window, we, you know,
(29:49):
anytime you threw smoke in, thecandles would begin to burn.
You'd see the curtains catchfire and glow.
And then pretty soon the smokewould push out the oxygen and
the fire would die.
So we got all the way backaround to the front of the
house, and he put a canisterthrough the window, and the
curtains began to burn like theyalways did.
And then I don't know what wasthere, but something exploded.
(30:10):
Boom! And the front door slammedshut and then slammed back open.
And that fed oxygen into thehouse, and that house went up
like a Roman candle.
SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
If only we had a firefighter here to explain that
to us.
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the hosts and
our guests, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement or fireagency for its components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
(30:44):
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our cities.
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