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When I was at the line of duty death funeral of Deputy Elijah Ming, I met officers from all across the midwest, but I also ran into uniformed officers from further away, specifically one officer who traveled all the way from New York City. This was my introduction to Brotherhood for the Fallen, an organization of police officers who send representatives to every funeral of an officer murdered in the line of duty. Today we're talking to Jason Marsman from the New York City chapter of Brotherhood for the Fallen. We're going to talk about the strange mission to attend every police funeral in the country and the surprising gift for the family that these officers bring with them.
Brotherhood For the Fallen NYC Chapter: https://www.brotherhoodnyc.org
Music is by the Westerlies
Hey Chaplain Bonus Episode 50
Tags:
Police, Death, Funerals, Honor, Line of Duty Death, Memorials, Morale, NYPD, Travel, Brooklyn, Dallas, Kansas City, New York City, Kansas, New York, Texas
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
When that happened, I was I was considering maybe
leaving the department.
You know, uh it really justwasn't for me at the time, and
and uh and and it was a bigdecision to make because I had a
lot of time on already, but Ireally was really sick of being
a cop.
And we went we went down thereto Dallas, we sent a large group
(00:22):
uh because we we kind of rotatedthrough because it the funerals
were over almost two weeks, Ithink.
So we were rotating peoplethrough, and uh really just the
outpouring of support from thecommunity and really from the
nation at that time kind ofchanged my perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard, and todayyou'll hear from NYPD.
(01:13):
They are sharing their wisdomwith you so that you don't have
to learn everything the hardway.
And as Patrol Chaplain, I wantyou to be encouraged to do good
things.
This is a special bonus episodeof the Hey Chaplain Podcast, and
my goal today is to introduceyou to an organization that I
think you need to know about.
(01:35):
When I was at the line of dutydeath funeral of Deputy Elijah
Me, I met officers from allacross the Midwest.
But I also ran into uniformedofficers from further away,
specifically one officer whotraveled all the way from New
York City.
This was my introduction toBrotherhood for the Fallen, an
(01:55):
organization of police officerswho send representatives to
every funeral of an officermurdered in the line of duty.
Today, we're talking to JasonMarsman from the New York City
chapter of Brotherhood for theFallen.
We're going to talk about thestrange mission to attend every
police funeral in the countryand the surprising gift for the
(02:19):
family that these officers bringwith them.
Here's retired New York Citypolice officer, Jason Marsman.
Hello, Jason.
How are you today?
I am well, Jared.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty well.
I'm very pleased to have you onthe show and just excited to
(02:41):
talk to you about uh Brotherhoodfor the Fallen.
But before we do, let me ask youabout your career with the
police.
Where'd you start?
How did it go?
How did you get into it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I started in 2005, uh, New York City Police
Department.
January of 2005, I went to thepolice academy.
And uh I spent pretty much myentire career in the 7-7
precinct, same place, CrownHeights, Brooklyn.
If anybody knows the CrownHeights riots uh a couple
decades ago, that's the spot.
(03:11):
Very diverse community.
Uh and I got there at a time ofchange, really, in that
community.
We had a lot of new peoplemoving in.
That was kind of what became thetail end of broken windows
policing in New York City.
The community had reallychanged.
It had turned over a lot, andthere was there were a lot of
new people coming in, new moneycoming in, new development
(03:32):
coming in.
So it was a major change fromwhen I first got there to by the
time I left.
Night and day, really.
What all did you do in yourtime?
Uh I did 4-12s.
I was on the 4-12 my entirecareer.
I did patrol.
First half was 10 years, I wason patrol.
And then I moved into kind ofunder the community affairs
(03:53):
umbrella.
I was the crime preventionofficer and the uh auxiliary
coordinator.
The auxiliary coordinator kindof supervises the volunteers,
the auxiliary officers that comein.
And that that unit averagessomewhere around 20 uh
volunteers that come in.
They're all civilians, they'renot armed, they're not sworn
officers.
But uh I I supervised and ranthat program.
(04:16):
So talk to me about policefunerals.
Dylan Stewart, I was a rookie.
He was uh in a conditions unit.
They addressed like problematiclocations or quality of life
stuff, uh, and it was inconditions, they were in an
unmarked car, and they came sideby side with a perp, and uh they
(04:37):
got shot at.
The round went in between thevest panels, the front and back
panel, and in his side.
He put up a fight for a while.
He uh he stayed in the fight,uh, but it obviously wound up
being you know a fatal gunshotwound.
And uh that was probably myfirst if I had to guess, that
(04:58):
was the first one I went to.
And it's just the the size andscale of things, particularly in
New York.
And it's sad, but we haveperfected the police funeral in
in New York City.
And uh it's it's somewhatsystematic.
You know the rhythm, you knowexactly what's gonna happen, but
(05:22):
you're still never prepared forit, in all honesty.
But you know exactly what you'regonna hear, you know exactly how
we're gonna line up, and youknow exactly when the pipes are
gonna play.
But every time it's it's reallylike it's it's it's ingrained in
you, but almost it's it's likeyou've never done it before
every time because it's soimpactful every time.
(05:43):
And and New York, it's very easyfor us to shut down all of
Manhattan for a funeral.
We've we've had quite a few atSt.
Pat's Cathedral, and really weshut down half of Long Island,
uh, half of New York City andall of Manhattan for these
funerals.
It's gotten some people upset attimes, but uh we kind of do it
(06:05):
really like nobody else does.
SPEAKER_00 (06:07):
A lot of my cops have been to those funerals and
they're not looking to go tomore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
So what makes you different?
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
It has to do with how we got started as an
organization and the supportthat despite being 30,000
members, the support that we getfrom other agencies and other
departments from around thecountry when it happens to us.
We even get the Bobbies comingover, uh, we get the Mounties
coming down from Canada, and thesupport that we still always get
in New York, even though I don'tmean to say we don't need it,
(06:40):
but in terms of a presence, wedon't need it, but it's
certainly appreciated.
You know, you you do see it andand it does make a difference.
It makes a difference for us,and uh it makes a difference,
believe it or not.
The families do notice and theythey do find out, and they do
with our organization, they domeet them, and that's always
(07:01):
been a big thing for us.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Okay, so tell me then, how did Brotherhood for
the Fallen begin?
How did that get started?
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
It started in Chicago.
They were the first chapter.
In 2009, right?
There were four cops killed inOakland, there were three cops
killed in Pittsburgh, and therewere four cops killed in uh in
Lakewood, Washington.
So they were all killed in thesame incidents.
These were multiple cops thatwere killed at one time.
I think the one uh Lakewood, ifI remember correctly, that was
(07:31):
the one I think they were havingbreakfast.
They were in a diner orsomething having breakfast, and
they all got killed.
Um, so it got started inChicago.
Small group of cops in Chicagosaid, these are really some
horrible, some horribleincidents that happened, some
terrible circumstances.
Let's go out, let's do our part,let's let's show people that
(07:54):
this brotherhood really doesexist, right?
We don't just say it, we don'tjust put it on Facebook, never
forget and then forget.
You know, we don't just say, wedon't just put up a picture
online and walk away from it.
We don't just you know, we don'tjust talk, we actually walk.
We're gonna get out there andwe're gonna we're gonna show
them that we're with them and wesupport them, their families,
(08:16):
their colleagues, even even thecommunities where these happen.
It's a big impact on some ofthese communities that really
are very close with their policedepartment.
A lot of these places wherewe've been to, you know, the cop
is from there, he grew up there,he was the star on the football
team or or something, andeverybody knows him.
And all of a sudden, really notjust a family, not just the
(08:38):
department, but this entirecommunity loses somebody that's
really a crucial part of theirneighborhood and the heart of
their their community.
So it makes a big differencewhen they see uh cops from all
over really showing up to showto offer some support.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
So, how did it develop from a few officers
saying, hey, we're gonna goattend these funerals?
Because that's the right, that'sone of the best ways we can show
our support.
How did it get from that tobeing an organization that's you
know spreading to otheragencies?
And how did it develop?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
So I'll I'll fast forward to 2014, December of
2014, um, Bed Sti Brooklyn.
2014 was not a great time to bea police officer.
We had an incident in New York,one in particular was Eric
Garner.
Uh he was he had a heart attack,he suffered a fatal heart attack
while he was being arrested.
And it didn't look good oncamera, and the police obviously
(09:32):
got blamed.
And that led to some someprotesting, and you had the
Michael Brown incident where youknow that was a really
unfortunate set ofcircumstances, but the cop did
absolutely nothing wrong.
We all know how that turned outfor that neighborhood.
We had a president and agovernor, and really a mayor who
(09:52):
were not terribly supportive ofthe police at the time.
There we had we had a lot ofprotests, some really ugly
protests in the wake of theseincidents.
We had two officers, markedpolice car, sitting on a corner
where they weren't even in theprecinct where they're assigned.
It was a counter-terrorismdetail.
It was really being used as ananti-crime operation, but it was
(10:15):
a counter-terrorism detail wherecops would be sent from every
precinct in the city to a hotspot.
And uh they were eating theirlunch, minding their own
business, and some lunatic haduh traveled up the East Coast
and said, I'm gonna I'm gonnakill the first cop I see.
And these two guys were justsitting there in their car.
(10:36):
He he walked up from behind andjust opened fire on them.
So during their funerals, thesecops from Chicago came out to
New York.
And it just happened to be theright cops, met the right cops,
and within six months, uh ourchapter was up and running too.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Tell me briefly how a chapter operates.
How does the chapter get moneyto do what it does to send
people?
I mean, it's expensive totravel.
It's tough.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
And then how do you organize that?
So it's not it's not just totravel.
We also, every chapter, we havenow nine chapters in seven
states, I think, if I do themath right.
We also make a monetary donationto the family.
So it's our travel costs andit's it's uh these monetary
donations.
So every chapter has their ownamount, but with with nine
(11:30):
chapters, it it's a sizableamount of money that we're hand
delivering.
They're not waiting forinsurance policies to clear,
they're not waiting for aworkers' comp claim, they're not
waiting for a t-shirtfundraiser, they're not waiting
for uh, you know, uh a trickytray or a raffle.
We're handing them the moneyright now when they need it.
(11:51):
They can do whatever.
We don't put any stipulations onit.
Um, it's just we know that inthose first days things are
really messy and things arereally confusing, and nobody
should have to worry aboutgetting dinner, about the kids
playing basketball, about uhdaycare, about uh needing to get
(12:14):
diapers or formula.
Like this is let's take all ofthose simple things out of the
way, just here is this right upfront, right?
Uh, because we know there aresome some departments again, New
York.
We're very big, and it's easyfor us.
And we have great life insurancepolicies, and we have great
benefits through the city andthrough our unions.
(12:38):
And there's really not afinancial want or need for us.
But lots of places don't havethose resources.
We don't have that at all.
Yeah, right.
Um so that's part of this thisoperation is getting this money
right away when it's needed, notsix months from now after we
sold the t-shirts.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
So let's talk about that just for a moment.
How do you go about fundraising?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
I mean, that's our members they pay a membership
fee, right?
So they they they pay ourgeneral members who are active
cops who who will travel, theypay$100 a year to join.
They got skin in the game.
They do.
They have skin in the game,they're making a personal
sacrifice themselves right upfront, and they travel on their
own time if they volunteer togo.
(13:23):
This is not a department fundedoperation in any way.
The department doesn't give ustime off voluntarily to go.
We're we're burning our ownvacation days or whatever it
might be.
Our cops are really making somesort of sacrifice to pull this
off and to do this.
So we have the dues.
We do have some merchandisesales like anybody else.
(13:44):
You know, we sell t-shirts andhats.
Challenge coins are always a bigthing.
We'll run a couple of raffles ayear.
And our big thing now is a golfouting that we have every fall.
We've had some success with thegolf outing.
Our goal with these events andwith the fundraising things is
not just to throw another rubberchicken dinner like everybody
else does.
You know, we're not just givingplaques out to all of the chiefs
(14:07):
and the mayor's driver and thistype of stuff.
We're we're committed to our ourmission here.
And it's really about it's thesupport that we give the
families and the support that wegive the cops and these other
departments, but it's also abouthonoring and some remembrance,
right?
So when you're when you play inour golf tournament, the entire
(14:30):
course uh has signage all aroundthe course.
We have pictures of every copthat was murdered in the line of
duty since our last golf outing.
We put our own officers' nameson the the pin flags.
So I go back, I do this myself,I go back and I do some research
and I find some names that thatstand out historically, but
maybe some that people haven'tseen of or heard of in in a long
(14:54):
time.
And that's important too, youknow.
Everybody knows the big onesthat they've heard about,
everybody knows the cops thatwere that made the news, but
there are so many, you know, 50,60, 70, 100 years ago.
Nobody's ever heard that namesince then.
Right.
So I I try to go back and I tryto pull some some names and and
get those names and faces outthere to say, hey, you know,
(15:17):
it's not just about whathappened this year.
We have a long history in lawenforcement, we have a long
legacy of sacrifice here.
And let's not forget, let'sreally not forget about some of
these people that that walkedthese these beats before us that
wore this same uniform as me ahundred years ago.
They deserve to be rememberedand seen too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
How do you organize the trips?
I mean, obviously you need anofficer who's available.
So you have a member said he'swilling to go.
How do you pick who goes?
The chapters work very welltogether collectively.
Uh that was my next question.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
If you coordinate between chapters.
We do, we do.
It's very important.
Um somebody is always on thelookout for the news, right?
Right.
So our phones will go off at twoo'clock in the morning, four
o'clock in the morning, threeo'clock in the afternoon.
It's always something going on.
It'll always be, okay, we gotthese details now.
It's going to be at this churchon this day, and all the
(16:11):
chapters start putting out theirfeelers for their members.
We use a texting system.
So we'll put out a last textmessage to all of our members in
our chapter.
Some some do it differently,some go on a rotation, but we
just say, hey, uh, whoever'savailable, we need your help.
It's usually last minute, soit's it's kind of tough, right?
(16:31):
We'll take whoever we can,whoever's available, we'll take
them.
We have two travel secretarieswho really are kind of the
backbone of of our operation.
And they're turning over thesedeployments in in a day or two.
They're working with all theother other chapters.
We we make sure we all get kindof into the same hotel and we
(16:53):
make sure we all have the sametimes.
We all know when we're gonnawe're we're all gonna be at this
at the viewing together, at theservices together.
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Multiple people from different chapters might go to
the same funeral.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
The goal really is that everychapter is at every.
Really?
I mean, that's that's really thethe goal.
It's not always possible.
We miss sometimes.
We have staffing problems, orsometimes there really is that
short notice funeral that popsup and you know it's Wednesday
and it's gonna be on Friday.
unknown (17:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
We just can't get somebody on a plane that quick.
unknown (17:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
But really, the goal is every every chapter at every
funeral for every every copthat's murdered in the line of
duty in this country.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Wow.
We had two funerals last year,and one was a sheriff's deputy
who was killed in the line ofduty.
And at that funeral, I didn'thave any official
responsibilities.
I was basically just greetingand ushering.
We were in a soccer stadium, andand so there's hundreds and
hundreds of people there andofficers from all over, and
mostly from the Midwest.
(17:56):
And I what I do sometimes whenI'm around a group of cops is
I'll go with my cell phone, I'lltake pictures of their shoulder
patches.
And so I end up at the end ofthe day with a collection of a
hundred different agencies,shoulder patches.
And that's where I found theNYPD officer.
And I'm like, wow, you came fromNew York.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
Yeah, well, that's that's actually it's funny you
say that because one of one ofour kind of taglines is shoulder
to shoulder, patch to patch.
Yeah.
And I have a phone full when myguys go to these funerals and
they send all their picturesback.
I have a phone full of pictureswith the shoulder to shoulder,
and and the the we try to alwaysget that agency that we're there
(18:36):
to support, you know, and ourown.
And we I have a lot of thosepictures.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Well, well, that was my introduction to Brotherhood
for the Fallen.
And so, and because I didn'tknow that existed.
Yeah, I just didn't know aboutit.
And so that was my introductionto it.
But then a month later, we hadanother line of duty death.
One of my officers was murdered,and I was officiating a funeral.
And so I what I was down in thetunnel, you know, I was with the
(19:00):
family, I was with the commandstaff, I wasn't up in the
audience and able to see ifthere was anybody from NYPD or
Chicago or whatever.
There might, there might havebeen, but I don't know.
Presumably, somebody from atleast some of the chapters would
have been there.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
They were there.
Yeah, I didn't know if there wasany way to know.
And in fact, I actually, when Ifirst emailed you, I asked, I
said, Do you know what I mean?
I did, I did actually look itup.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
I don't remember when you when you first sent the
email, I did look it up.
I don't remember who it was, butwe were certainly out there.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I vividly remember the NYPD officer from the
deputy's funeral.
My officer's funeral there amonth later, like I said, I
wouldn't have known.
So I I just wasn't able to go upin the crowd and meet with
anybody.
But it meant a lot to me.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Yeah, I'll tell you, so one of one of our um line of
duty widows, who we're very veryclose with, she's a she's a big
supporter of ours.
She says that in the days afterher husband was killed, it was
really a blur.
She doesn't remember much ofwhat happened.
You know, we kind of sweep themup, whether we're putting them
(20:11):
in a highway car or we'reputting them in a helicopter,
we're getting them into ahospital as quickly as we can.
They're surrounded by cops,they're surrounded by chiefs.
The mayor comes in, everybodywants to say hello, everybody
wants to be seen, everybodywants their moment, and even
even throughout the whole thewhole planning process and the
wake and the funerals,everything's they're they're
(20:33):
just kind of escorted andshepherd along, right?
We're gonna go to the we'regonna be at the funeral home at
a certain time, and there'sgonna be 300 cops that pass
through this funeral home in twohours, and then the governor is
gonna show up and she's gonnawant to say hello.
And it's just yes, yes, yes,yes, yes.
And they follow this routine andthis script a little bit, and
it's it's a lot, it's a lot.
(20:54):
But what she says is of those ofthose days that week, she very
vividly remembers and we'llnever forget being introduced to
all of the cops who traveled infrom the Brotherhood chapters.
And that made the impression onher above everything else that
went on in those days.
And we really the first time Ihad ever heard that it kind of
(21:17):
surprised me, to be honest withyou, that of everything that
went on, everybody she saw,everybody she met, that that is
really what stood out.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
So that that made an impression on me hearing that.
Like I said, it did for me withuh Deputy Ming.
You know, like I said, I was upmingling with the officers, and
we had people locally thattraveled an hour or two to get
to us, and we had a lot ofthose.
But but I was so impressed thatwe had people from Louisiana and
Texas and Chicago and New Yorkand all that, just that meant a
(21:48):
lot to me.
Now I wish I would have asked,Are you with Brotherhood for the
Fallen?
You know, because becausefrankly, I I hope I never go to
another cop funeral.
When I do, I I probably will askthat if I see somebody,
especially I see somebody fromout of town.
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
Yeah, a lot of the chapters also have um multiple
departments that feed into theirchapter.
Like Colorado, when they gotstarted, they got started around
the same time as us out inAurora.
It was the Aurora chapter whenthey started.
And then they they expanded andthey opened up to more
departments.
And uh same thing in Boston hasmore, and Chicago has more.
(22:25):
The Fort Worth chapter has otherdepartments, Suffolk County.
The county has a couple villagePDs that also uh have joined.
So it's not, you know, we we'reBrotherhood New York City.
Yeah.
We we've tried to not letanybody else in.
Um but but it's not just whenyou see, you know, um Boston,
(22:49):
it's not just Boston.
There are multiple departmentsthat are part of that bigger
mission.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
So we have a lot of cops listening in on this.
How do they get involved?
How do they start a chapter orjoin a nearby chapter?
How would that work?
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Well, we we're in uh Connecticut, Boston, Suffolk
County, New York, New York City,South Carolina, Arkansas,
Dallas, Fort Worth, andColorado.
It's Chicago.
Right.
Right.
Chicago is, I can't, I'll get alot of grief if I don't say
Chicago.
Um but so we're we're in some ofthe major, you know,
(23:28):
metropolitan areas.
There's a good there's a goodchance that if you live anywhere
near there, your your departmentmight be already involved with
one of the existing chapters.
If not, if you want to get achapter up and running, uh you
can you can email any of us, uhreally any of the chapters.
If you go on any of our websitesor you can you can send an email
(23:48):
to info at brother at nyc.organd we'll we'll get you the
information you need to bringyou on board and and uh help you
out to get started.
It's it's somewhat of a tediousprocess because we are all 501c3
nonprofit charities.
Yeah, so there is some legworkto be done, uh, and obviously
you need some buy-in from yourcommand staff to know that
(24:09):
you're gonna have the supportand they're not gonna try to uh
shut you down along the way andsay, no, you know, we're not
gonna let that, we're not gonnalet you travel, we're not gonna
let you out of town from June toOctober.
Because it's uh it'sunderstandable.
Uh some departments do reallyhave a lot of trouble in those
summer months where they theycan't they can't get out of town
to travel.
Yeah.
Everybody right now is prettylucky.
(24:30):
We all have very supportiveagencies and command staffs, so
it hasn't been too much of anissue, but uh it's important to
get that buy-in.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
And again, the buy-in, there's an annual
membership to be an officerwho's involved.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, we we do have a membership fee.
Uh our general members, they'reall active or recently retired.
We're allowing retirees totravel also.
And it's it's$100 a year.
It's it's not a lot, but it'snot it's not nothing.
You know, it is a it is asizable amount.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
But you're doing this on your day off on a
vacation day or something.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Yeah.
Yep.
And and a lot of times uh weknow the trends, you know, we
know what happens in July andAugust.
We we tend to get very busy.
It's very sad that that's that'skind of the pattern that we've
picked up.
So people are also, you know,they're trying to make their
summer plans, they're trying tobe with family too, but they're
still they're still answeringthe call, and we put out that
text message, they're stillmaking themselves available and
(25:25):
they're going wherever, whereverwe need them to go.
Uh, we we used to joke aroundthat you know, we'll get a ton
of responses to go toCalifornia, but we don't really
see that yeah.
We don't really see that that'swhat happens, right?
We'll put out uh an alert for asmall town and uh places people
really never even heard of, andwe'll get a ton of responses for
(25:46):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Both of our funerals, I mean, we're the
other Kansas City.
People don't realize thatthere's two cities named Kansas
City adjacent to each other.
Right, right.
And and we're the smaller of theI actually think we had a little
confusion last year when we weredoing that, yeah.
Yeah, because you fly intoKansas City, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Right.
I think that caused uh our guysa little bit of confusion, but
it worked.
SPEAKER_00 (26:07):
So we appreciated it.
It meant a lot that that we'dwe'd see representation come out
like that.
That really meant a lot to us.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, it's it makes a difference.
And and to be honest with you,like some of these some of these
other chapters have that's howwe got started, and other
chapters have started the sameway.
That's how the the Connecticutchapter got started, also after
the two officers were killed inBristol.
Fort Worth was just coming onwhen the five Dallas officers
were killed.
But then Dallas started theirown chapter right afterwards.
(26:37):
So it's it's it's hopeful, it'sit's reassuring to us that we
see that we did make so much ofan impact by traveling somewhere
that then another agencydecided, hey, we we need to
start a chapter here, we need todo the same thing.
We need to we need to pay thisforward and we need to return
this favor as well.
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
It works both ways.
You've been to probably thesmallest church buildings and
funeral homes, but you've alsobeen to soccer stadiums.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
Yeah, and it's really it's really different.
It's it's really kind of weirdgoing into some of these places
that I I really would neverimagine saying, we're gonna go
to the church of wherever.
And you walk in, and the placeis really it's a stadium, it's
massive.
Yes, and they have multiple bigmega churches.
Yeah, they have multiple arenasat these churches.
(27:25):
But again, some of them arereally small, really small
departments, uh, and then allthe way up, you know, up to the
biggest mega churches that thatyou can find.
And and we fill them up in NewYork.
Uh generally, we don't even gointo the church for a funeral
because we are so many, and wedon't have churches like that.
(27:46):
There are a couple around, butwe don't have these major
churches that can seat thousandsand thousands of people.
It's you know, small localparishes, small churches, and
it's it's family, it's execpolice executives and and the
command, the priesting wherethey work.
It's really reserved for them.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
So typically you're gonna be like lining the street
or something.
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, we're we're we're lined up, thousands of
cops on the street, we're justwaiting for that cue to get back
in line.
So then when you actually canget into some of these services,
it's a lot different because wedon't experience that part of it
here, and to be able to hear thefamily speak about their loved
one and get the you know, theirpartner to talk about them and
(28:28):
and you know, maybe somecommunity members and family.
And uh it really that's a bigdifference too for us when we tr
when we travel, we go somewhereelse.
So people come to visit us andthey stand outside of St.
Pat's in the rain for fourhours, but on the other end, you
know, you have some of thosemajor uh facilities that they
(28:49):
can really really fill up andget a lot of people in.
And it that's nice too becauseyou really you get to experience
it differently.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Yeah.
Can you name some of the placesthat you personally have gone?
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I mean, we've been to 300 probably almost 400, I
think I counted earlier, 375 uhfunerals since we got started.
Probably over a thousand copswe've sent.
Um not not individual, not alldifferent cops.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
Has there been, let me ask it this way, has there
been a state that Brotherhoodhas not gone to?
Oh probably not.
Yeah, I don't think there's anystate that hasn't had a line of
duty death.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
No, we've pretty much been everywhere at this
point.
The big one for me was going outgoing out to Dallas, really.
That was that was a horriblesituation.
Um, but it really kind ofchanged my perspective on
things.
I wasn't able to travel a lot.
(29:51):
But then when this happened inDallas, I got out there and I
had been at a point in mycareer, you know, we go through
all of these waves ofanti-police sentiment and
protesting, and we like thecops, we hate the cops, we like
the cops, we hate the cops.
I I really when that happened, Iwas I was considering maybe
(30:11):
leaving the department, youknow.
I it really just wasn't for meat the time, and and uh and and
it was a big decision to makebecause I had a lot of time on
already.
Um, but I really was really sickof being a cop.
And we went we went down thereto Dallas, we sent a large group
uh because we we kind of rotatedthrough because it the funerals
(30:34):
were over almost two weeks, Ithink.
So we were rotating peoplethrough, and uh really just the
outpouring of support from thecommunity and really from the
nation at that time kind ofchanged my perspective on on law
enforcement and uh what we weredoing and and how the community
(30:57):
responded to us.
And just because we were goingthrough some real crap uh didn't
didn't mean that everybody waswas against us at that time.
It really felt like that.
And you always want to say thereare good people out there in the
community, there are people thatappreciate what you do, but it's
really hard to hear them throughall the noise.
Yeah, going down there andreally seeing it and feeling it
(31:20):
kind of changed changed myperspective on it, and and I
felt a lot better about comingback and being the police again.
And then uh that's that's when Ithen shortly thereafter I I got
on the board.
I started as a travel secretary,and uh I was working with my old
partner, he's the one that kindof dragged me into this thing.
And uh he's still doing travel,bless his heart.
(31:41):
Where have you sent him?
Well, he's he's gone all overthe place.
He would go anywhere at thetime, really.
He he didn't care, he was goingall over the place.
And we have we have quite a fewguys, they answer up every time
they're ready to go, it doesn'tmatter.
You know, like I said, they'llthey'll answer for the smallest
places, and that's that's wherethey make the biggest impact, is
when we go to these smalldepartments.
(32:02):
Our uh entourage was larger thanthe agency that we were going
to, not really ever expectingit.
They were asked to stand honorguard, they were served as pull
bearers at funerals.
So, yeah, it really some of ourguys have really been caught off
guard, and it was it was veryimpactful for them too.
You know, they they were comingout to say thank you to this
(32:24):
family and to support them, andin return, they were being
treated kind of like thecelebrity, and it was really
weird for them.
But it it really does changeyou, it changes your perspective
and it changes your attitude onthings.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
You would think that going to the funeral of someone
who does your job who is waskilled in the line of duty would
be demoralizing.
That it would be filled withfear and that kind of thing.
But somehow what you'redescribing is that it actually
kept you going through yourretirement.
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
You would you would think it would be, but it's it
just I don't even know how todescribe it really.
It's just when you you feel thesupport in return, you know, and
and a lot of it are thesesmaller places, you know, you we
don't get that in in New York somuch, right?
Um the cop is killed and peopleare out there protesting still
(33:19):
and saying some really horriblethings and people have no filter
on social media, and and that'sjust all you're exposed to all
the time, you know.
So when you go to some of theseother places and you get away
from that noise of these liberalcities, and and you get to
really the heart of things,right?
(33:41):
And you get into um Main StreetAmerica instead of some of this
nonsense that goes on, that justreminds you that there really
there really are a lot of goodpeople, and there really are a
lot of people that that have ourback, that support what we do,
that appreciate us being there,and it really it we're going
there to support somebody else,but it it it's refreshing to us
(34:03):
too to get that feedback.
That's wonderful.
Jason, thank you for doing whatyou do.
All right, thank you for havingus on here.
SPEAKER_00 (34:09):
I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.
I want to thank Jason for beingon the show and especially for
being so accommodating.
He knew that I was trying tofind someone from Brotherhood
for the Fallen to be on the showin time for Police Week.
And he was really helpful tojump in and do this interview on
(34:31):
such short notice.
My hope is that everyonelistening to this program would
investigate whether they couldbegin a chapter of Brotherhood
for the Fallen.
It would not be an easy thing tocommit yourself to.
But a lot of worthwhile thingsare not easy.
You can find a link to the NewYork City chapter in the show
(34:52):
notes.
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the host and
our guest, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement agency orits components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our cities.
When that happened, I was I was considering maybe
leaving the department.
You know, uh it really justwasn't for me at the time, and
and uh and and it was a bigdecision to make because I had a
lot of time on already, but Ireally was really sick of being
a cop.
And we went we went down thereto Dallas, we sent a large group
(00:22):
uh because we we kind of rotatedthrough because it the funerals
were over almost two weeks, Ithink.
So we were rotating peoplethrough, and uh really just the
outpouring of support from thecommunity and really from the
nation at that time kind ofchanged my perspective.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Welcome to Hey Chaplin.
My name is Jared Altic, and I'ma chaplain with the police
department.
The Hey Chaplin podcast is abouttalking to police officers who
say, Hey Chaplain, I've got astory to tell and some
hard-earned wisdom to share.
The guests on Hey Chaplin comefrom across the world, from the
LAPD to Scotland Yard, and todayyou'll hear from NYPD.
(01:13):
They are sharing their wisdomwith you so that you don't have
to learn everything the hardway.
And as Patrol Chaplain, I wantyou to be encouraged to do good
things.
This is a special bonus episodeof the Hey Chaplain Podcast, and
my goal today is to introduceyou to an organization that I
think you need to know about.
(01:35):
When I was at the line of dutydeath funeral of Deputy Elijah
Me, I met officers from allacross the Midwest.
But I also ran into uniformedofficers from further away,
specifically one officer whotraveled all the way from New
York City.
This was my introduction toBrotherhood for the Fallen, an
(01:55):
organization of police officerswho send representatives to
every funeral of an officermurdered in the line of duty.
Today, we're talking to JasonMarsman from the New York City
chapter of Brotherhood for theFallen.
We're going to talk about thestrange mission to attend every
police funeral in the countryand the surprising gift for the
(02:19):
family that these officers bringwith them.
Here's retired New York Citypolice officer, Jason Marsman.
Hello, Jason.
How are you today?
I am well, Jared.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty well.
I'm very pleased to have you onthe show and just excited to
(02:41):
talk to you about uh Brotherhoodfor the Fallen.
But before we do, let me ask youabout your career with the
police.
Where'd you start?
How did it go?
How did you get into it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
I started in 2005, uh, New York City Police
Department.
January of 2005, I went to thepolice academy.
And uh I spent pretty much myentire career in the 7-7
precinct, same place, CrownHeights, Brooklyn.
If anybody knows the CrownHeights riots uh a couple
decades ago, that's the spot.
(03:11):
Very diverse community.
Uh and I got there at a time ofchange, really, in that
community.
We had a lot of new peoplemoving in.
That was kind of what became thetail end of broken windows
policing in New York City.
The community had reallychanged.
It had turned over a lot, andthere was there were a lot of
new people coming in, new moneycoming in, new development
(03:32):
coming in.
So it was a major change fromwhen I first got there to by the
time I left.
Night and day, really.
What all did you do in yourtime?
Uh I did 4-12s.
I was on the 4-12 my entirecareer.
I did patrol.
First half was 10 years, I wason patrol.
And then I moved into kind ofunder the community affairs
(03:53):
umbrella.
I was the crime preventionofficer and the uh auxiliary
coordinator.
The auxiliary coordinator kindof supervises the volunteers,
the auxiliary officers that comein.
And that that unit averagessomewhere around 20 uh
volunteers that come in.
They're all civilians, they'renot armed, they're not sworn
officers.
But uh I I supervised and ranthat program.
(04:16):
So talk to me about policefunerals.
Dylan Stewart, I was a rookie.
He was uh in a conditions unit.
They addressed like problematiclocations or quality of life
stuff, uh, and it was inconditions, they were in an
unmarked car, and they came sideby side with a perp, and uh they
(04:37):
got shot at.
The round went in between thevest panels, the front and back
panel, and in his side.
He put up a fight for a while.
He uh he stayed in the fight,uh, but it obviously wound up
being you know a fatal gunshotwound.
And uh that was probably myfirst if I had to guess, that
(04:58):
was the first one I went to.
And it's just the the size andscale of things, particularly in
New York.
And it's sad, but we haveperfected the police funeral in
in New York City.
And uh it's it's somewhatsystematic.
You know the rhythm, you knowexactly what's gonna happen, but
(05:22):
you're still never prepared forit, in all honesty.
But you know exactly what you'regonna hear, you know exactly how
we're gonna line up, and youknow exactly when the pipes are
gonna play.
But every time it's it's reallylike it's it's it's ingrained in
you, but almost it's it's likeyou've never done it before
every time because it's soimpactful every time.
(05:43):
And and New York, it's very easyfor us to shut down all of
Manhattan for a funeral.
We've we've had quite a few atSt.
Pat's Cathedral, and really weshut down half of Long Island,
uh, half of New York City andall of Manhattan for these
funerals.
It's gotten some people upset attimes, but uh we kind of do it
(06:05):
really like nobody else does.
SPEAKER_00 (06:07):
A lot of my cops have been to those funerals and
they're not looking to go tomore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
So what makes you different?
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
It has to do with how we got started as an
organization and the supportthat despite being 30,000
members, the support that we getfrom other agencies and other
departments from around thecountry when it happens to us.
We even get the Bobbies comingover, uh, we get the Mounties
coming down from Canada, and thesupport that we still always get
in New York, even though I don'tmean to say we don't need it,
(06:40):
but in terms of a presence, wedon't need it, but it's
certainly appreciated.
You know, you you do see it andand it does make a difference.
It makes a difference for us,and uh it makes a difference,
believe it or not.
The families do notice and theythey do find out, and they do
with our organization, they domeet them, and that's always
(07:01):
been a big thing for us.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Okay, so tell me then, how did Brotherhood for
the Fallen begin?
How did that get started?
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
It started in Chicago.
They were the first chapter.
In 2009, right?
There were four cops killed inOakland, there were three cops
killed in Pittsburgh, and therewere four cops killed in uh in
Lakewood, Washington.
So they were all killed in thesame incidents.
These were multiple cops thatwere killed at one time.
I think the one uh Lakewood, ifI remember correctly, that was
(07:31):
the one I think they were havingbreakfast.
They were in a diner orsomething having breakfast, and
they all got killed.
Um, so it got started inChicago.
Small group of cops in Chicagosaid, these are really some
horrible, some horribleincidents that happened, some
terrible circumstances.
Let's go out, let's do our part,let's let's show people that
(07:54):
this brotherhood really doesexist, right?
We don't just say it, we don'tjust put it on Facebook, never
forget and then forget.
You know, we don't just say, wedon't just put up a picture
online and walk away from it.
We don't just you know, we don'tjust talk, we actually walk.
We're gonna get out there andwe're gonna we're gonna show
them that we're with them and wesupport them, their families,
(08:16):
their colleagues, even even thecommunities where these happen.
It's a big impact on some ofthese communities that really
are very close with their policedepartment.
A lot of these places wherewe've been to, you know, the cop
is from there, he grew up there,he was the star on the football
team or or something, andeverybody knows him.
And all of a sudden, really notjust a family, not just the
(08:38):
department, but this entirecommunity loses somebody that's
really a crucial part of theirneighborhood and the heart of
their their community.
So it makes a big differencewhen they see uh cops from all
over really showing up to showto offer some support.
SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
So, how did it develop from a few officers
saying, hey, we're gonna goattend these funerals?
Because that's the right, that'sone of the best ways we can show
our support.
How did it get from that tobeing an organization that's you
know spreading to otheragencies?
And how did it develop?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
So I'll I'll fast forward to 2014, December of
2014, um, Bed Sti Brooklyn.
2014 was not a great time to bea police officer.
We had an incident in New York,one in particular was Eric
Garner.
Uh he was he had a heart attack,he suffered a fatal heart attack
while he was being arrested.
And it didn't look good oncamera, and the police obviously
(09:32):
got blamed.
And that led to some someprotesting, and you had the
Michael Brown incident where youknow that was a really
unfortunate set ofcircumstances, but the cop did
absolutely nothing wrong.
We all know how that turned outfor that neighborhood.
We had a president and agovernor, and really a mayor who
(09:52):
were not terribly supportive ofthe police at the time.
There we had we had a lot ofprotests, some really ugly
protests in the wake of theseincidents.
We had two officers, markedpolice car, sitting on a corner
where they weren't even in theprecinct where they're assigned.
It was a counter-terrorismdetail.
It was really being used as ananti-crime operation, but it was
(10:15):
a counter-terrorism detail wherecops would be sent from every
precinct in the city to a hotspot.
And uh they were eating theirlunch, minding their own
business, and some lunatic haduh traveled up the East Coast
and said, I'm gonna I'm gonnakill the first cop I see.
And these two guys were justsitting there in their car.
(10:36):
He he walked up from behind andjust opened fire on them.
So during their funerals, thesecops from Chicago came out to
New York.
And it just happened to be theright cops, met the right cops,
and within six months, uh ourchapter was up and running too.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Tell me briefly how a chapter operates.
How does the chapter get moneyto do what it does to send
people?
I mean, it's expensive totravel.
It's tough.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
And then how do you organize that?
So it's not it's not just totravel.
We also, every chapter, we havenow nine chapters in seven
states, I think, if I do themath right.
We also make a monetary donationto the family.
So it's our travel costs andit's it's uh these monetary
donations.
So every chapter has their ownamount, but with with nine
(11:30):
chapters, it it's a sizableamount of money that we're hand
delivering.
They're not waiting forinsurance policies to clear,
they're not waiting for aworkers' comp claim, they're not
waiting for a t-shirtfundraiser, they're not waiting
for uh, you know, uh a trickytray or a raffle.
We're handing them the moneyright now when they need it.
(11:51):
They can do whatever.
We don't put any stipulations onit.
Um, it's just we know that inthose first days things are
really messy and things arereally confusing, and nobody
should have to worry aboutgetting dinner, about the kids
playing basketball, about uhdaycare, about uh needing to get
(12:14):
diapers or formula.
Like this is let's take all ofthose simple things out of the
way, just here is this right upfront, right?
Uh, because we know there aresome some departments again, New
York.
We're very big, and it's easyfor us.
And we have great life insurancepolicies, and we have great
benefits through the city andthrough our unions.
(12:38):
And there's really not afinancial want or need for us.
But lots of places don't havethose resources.
We don't have that at all.
Yeah, right.
Um so that's part of this thisoperation is getting this money
right away when it's needed, notsix months from now after we
sold the t-shirts.
SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
So let's talk about that just for a moment.
How do you go about fundraising?
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
I mean, that's our members they pay a membership
fee, right?
So they they they pay ourgeneral members who are active
cops who who will travel, theypay$100 a year to join.
They got skin in the game.
They do.
They have skin in the game,they're making a personal
sacrifice themselves right upfront, and they travel on their
own time if they volunteer togo.
(13:23):
This is not a department fundedoperation in any way.
The department doesn't give ustime off voluntarily to go.
We're we're burning our ownvacation days or whatever it
might be.
Our cops are really making somesort of sacrifice to pull this
off and to do this.
So we have the dues.
We do have some merchandisesales like anybody else.
(13:44):
You know, we sell t-shirts andhats.
Challenge coins are always a bigthing.
We'll run a couple of raffles ayear.
And our big thing now is a golfouting that we have every fall.
We've had some success with thegolf outing.
Our goal with these events andwith the fundraising things is
not just to throw another rubberchicken dinner like everybody
else does.
You know, we're not just givingplaques out to all of the chiefs
(14:07):
and the mayor's driver and thistype of stuff.
We're we're committed to our ourmission here.
And it's really about it's thesupport that we give the
families and the support that wegive the cops and these other
departments, but it's also abouthonoring and some remembrance,
right?
So when you're when you play inour golf tournament, the entire
(14:30):
course uh has signage all aroundthe course.
We have pictures of every copthat was murdered in the line of
duty since our last golf outing.
We put our own officers' nameson the the pin flags.
So I go back, I do this myself,I go back and I do some research
and I find some names that thatstand out historically, but
maybe some that people haven'tseen of or heard of in in a long
(14:54):
time.
And that's important too, youknow.
Everybody knows the big onesthat they've heard about,
everybody knows the cops thatwere that made the news, but
there are so many, you know, 50,60, 70, 100 years ago.
Nobody's ever heard that namesince then.
Right.
So I I try to go back and I tryto pull some some names and and
get those names and faces outthere to say, hey, you know,
(15:17):
it's not just about whathappened this year.
We have a long history in lawenforcement, we have a long
legacy of sacrifice here.
And let's not forget, let'sreally not forget about some of
these people that that walkedthese these beats before us that
wore this same uniform as me ahundred years ago.
They deserve to be rememberedand seen too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
How do you organize the trips?
I mean, obviously you need anofficer who's available.
So you have a member said he'swilling to go.
How do you pick who goes?
The chapters work very welltogether collectively.
Uh that was my next question.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
If you coordinate between chapters.
We do, we do.
It's very important.
Um somebody is always on thelookout for the news, right?
Right.
So our phones will go off at twoo'clock in the morning, four
o'clock in the morning, threeo'clock in the afternoon.
It's always something going on.
It'll always be, okay, we gotthese details now.
It's going to be at this churchon this day, and all the
(16:11):
chapters start putting out theirfeelers for their members.
We use a texting system.
So we'll put out a last textmessage to all of our members in
our chapter.
Some some do it differently,some go on a rotation, but we
just say, hey, uh, whoever'savailable, we need your help.
It's usually last minute, soit's it's kind of tough, right?
(16:31):
We'll take whoever we can,whoever's available, we'll take
them.
We have two travel secretarieswho really are kind of the
backbone of of our operation.
And they're turning over thesedeployments in in a day or two.
They're working with all theother other chapters.
We we make sure we all get kindof into the same hotel and we
(16:53):
make sure we all have the sametimes.
We all know when we're gonnawe're we're all gonna be at this
at the viewing together, at theservices together.
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Multiple people from different chapters might go to
the same funeral.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
The goal really is that everychapter is at every.
Really?
I mean, that's that's really thethe goal.
It's not always possible.
We miss sometimes.
We have staffing problems, orsometimes there really is that
short notice funeral that popsup and you know it's Wednesday
and it's gonna be on Friday.
unknown (17:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
We just can't get somebody on a plane that quick.
unknown (17:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
But really, the goal is every every chapter at every
funeral for every every copthat's murdered in the line of
duty in this country.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Wow.
We had two funerals last year,and one was a sheriff's deputy
who was killed in the line ofduty.
And at that funeral, I didn'thave any official
responsibilities.
I was basically just greetingand ushering.
We were in a soccer stadium, andand so there's hundreds and
hundreds of people there andofficers from all over, and
mostly from the Midwest.
(17:56):
And I what I do sometimes whenI'm around a group of cops is
I'll go with my cell phone, I'lltake pictures of their shoulder
patches.
And so I end up at the end ofthe day with a collection of a
hundred different agencies,shoulder patches.
And that's where I found theNYPD officer.
And I'm like, wow, you came fromNew York.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
Yeah, well, that's that's actually it's funny you
say that because one of one ofour kind of taglines is shoulder
to shoulder, patch to patch.
Yeah.
And I have a phone full when myguys go to these funerals and
they send all their picturesback.
I have a phone full of pictureswith the shoulder to shoulder,
and and the the we try to alwaysget that agency that we're there
(18:36):
to support, you know, and ourown.
And we I have a lot of thosepictures.
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Well, well, that was my introduction to Brotherhood
for the Fallen.
And so, and because I didn'tknow that existed.
Yeah, I just didn't know aboutit.
And so that was my introductionto it.
But then a month later, we hadanother line of duty death.
One of my officers was murdered,and I was officiating a funeral.
And so I what I was down in thetunnel, you know, I was with the
(19:00):
family, I was with the commandstaff, I wasn't up in the
audience and able to see ifthere was anybody from NYPD or
Chicago or whatever.
There might, there might havebeen, but I don't know.
Presumably, somebody from atleast some of the chapters would
have been there.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
They were there.
Yeah, I didn't know if there wasany way to know.
And in fact, I actually, when Ifirst emailed you, I asked, I
said, Do you know what I mean?
I did, I did actually look itup.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
I don't remember when you when you first sent the
email, I did look it up.
I don't remember who it was, butwe were certainly out there.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I vividly remember the NYPD officer from the
deputy's funeral.
My officer's funeral there amonth later, like I said, I
wouldn't have known.
So I I just wasn't able to go upin the crowd and meet with
anybody.
But it meant a lot to me.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Yeah, I'll tell you, so one of one of our um line of
duty widows, who we're very veryclose with, she's a she's a big
supporter of ours.
She says that in the days afterher husband was killed, it was
really a blur.
She doesn't remember much ofwhat happened.
You know, we kind of sweep themup, whether we're putting them
(20:11):
in a highway car or we'reputting them in a helicopter,
we're getting them into ahospital as quickly as we can.
They're surrounded by cops,they're surrounded by chiefs.
The mayor comes in, everybodywants to say hello, everybody
wants to be seen, everybodywants their moment, and even
even throughout the whole thewhole planning process and the
wake and the funerals,everything's they're they're
(20:33):
just kind of escorted andshepherd along, right?
We're gonna go to the we'regonna be at the funeral home at
a certain time, and there'sgonna be 300 cops that pass
through this funeral home in twohours, and then the governor is
gonna show up and she's gonnawant to say hello.
And it's just yes, yes, yes,yes, yes.
And they follow this routine andthis script a little bit, and
it's it's a lot, it's a lot.
(20:54):
But what she says is of those ofthose days that week, she very
vividly remembers and we'llnever forget being introduced to
all of the cops who traveled infrom the Brotherhood chapters.
And that made the impression onher above everything else that
went on in those days.
And we really the first time Ihad ever heard that it kind of
(21:17):
surprised me, to be honest withyou, that of everything that
went on, everybody she saw,everybody she met, that that is
really what stood out.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
So that that made an impression on me hearing that.
Like I said, it did for me withuh Deputy Ming.
You know, like I said, I was upmingling with the officers, and
we had people locally thattraveled an hour or two to get
to us, and we had a lot ofthose.
But but I was so impressed thatwe had people from Louisiana and
Texas and Chicago and New Yorkand all that, just that meant a
(21:48):
lot to me.
Now I wish I would have asked,Are you with Brotherhood for the
Fallen?
You know, because becausefrankly, I I hope I never go to
another cop funeral.
When I do, I I probably will askthat if I see somebody,
especially I see somebody fromout of town.
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
Yeah, a lot of the chapters also have um multiple
departments that feed into theirchapter.
Like Colorado, when they gotstarted, they got started around
the same time as us out inAurora.
It was the Aurora chapter whenthey started.
And then they they expanded andthey opened up to more
departments.
And uh same thing in Boston hasmore, and Chicago has more.
(22:25):
The Fort Worth chapter has otherdepartments, Suffolk County.
The county has a couple villagePDs that also uh have joined.
So it's not, you know, we we'reBrotherhood New York City.
Yeah.
We we've tried to not letanybody else in.
Um but but it's not just whenyou see, you know, um Boston,
(22:49):
it's not just Boston.
There are multiple departmentsthat are part of that bigger
mission.
SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
So we have a lot of cops listening in on this.
How do they get involved?
How do they start a chapter orjoin a nearby chapter?
How would that work?
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
Well, we we're in uh Connecticut, Boston, Suffolk
County, New York, New York City,South Carolina, Arkansas,
Dallas, Fort Worth, andColorado.
It's Chicago.
Right.
Right.
Chicago is, I can't, I'll get alot of grief if I don't say
Chicago.
Um but so we're we're in some ofthe major, you know,
(23:28):
metropolitan areas.
There's a good there's a goodchance that if you live anywhere
near there, your your departmentmight be already involved with
one of the existing chapters.
If not, if you want to get achapter up and running, uh you
can you can email any of us, uhreally any of the chapters.
If you go on any of our websitesor you can you can send an email
(23:48):
to info at brother at nyc.organd we'll we'll get you the
information you need to bringyou on board and and uh help you
out to get started.
It's it's somewhat of a tediousprocess because we are all 501c3
nonprofit charities.
Yeah, so there is some legworkto be done, uh, and obviously
you need some buy-in from yourcommand staff to know that
(24:09):
you're gonna have the supportand they're not gonna try to uh
shut you down along the way andsay, no, you know, we're not
gonna let that, we're not gonnalet you travel, we're not gonna
let you out of town from June toOctober.
Because it's uh it'sunderstandable.
Uh some departments do reallyhave a lot of trouble in those
summer months where they theycan't they can't get out of town
to travel.
Yeah.
Everybody right now is prettylucky.
(24:30):
We all have very supportiveagencies and command staffs, so
it hasn't been too much of anissue, but uh it's important to
get that buy-in.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
And again, the buy-in, there's an annual
membership to be an officerwho's involved.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, we we do have a membership fee.
Uh our general members, they'reall active or recently retired.
We're allowing retirees totravel also.
And it's it's$100 a year.
It's it's not a lot, but it'snot it's not nothing.
You know, it is a it is asizable amount.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
But you're doing this on your day off on a
vacation day or something.
SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Yeah.
Yep.
And and a lot of times uh weknow the trends, you know, we
know what happens in July andAugust.
We we tend to get very busy.
It's very sad that that's that'skind of the pattern that we've
picked up.
So people are also, you know,they're trying to make their
summer plans, they're trying tobe with family too, but they're
still they're still answeringthe call, and we put out that
text message, they're stillmaking themselves available and
(25:25):
they're going wherever, whereverwe need them to go.
Uh, we we used to joke aroundthat you know, we'll get a ton
of responses to go toCalifornia, but we don't really
see that yeah.
We don't really see that that'swhat happens, right?
We'll put out uh an alert for asmall town and uh places people
really never even heard of, andwe'll get a ton of responses for
(25:46):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Both of our funerals, I mean, we're the
other Kansas City.
People don't realize thatthere's two cities named Kansas
City adjacent to each other.
Right, right.
And and we're the smaller of theI actually think we had a little
confusion last year when we weredoing that, yeah.
Yeah, because you fly intoKansas City, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Right.
I think that caused uh our guysa little bit of confusion, but
it worked.
SPEAKER_00 (26:07):
So we appreciated it.
It meant a lot that that we'dwe'd see representation come out
like that.
That really meant a lot to us.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Yeah, it's it makes a difference.
And and to be honest with you,like some of these some of these
other chapters have that's howwe got started, and other
chapters have started the sameway.
That's how the the Connecticutchapter got started, also after
the two officers were killed inBristol.
Fort Worth was just coming onwhen the five Dallas officers
were killed.
But then Dallas started theirown chapter right afterwards.
(26:37):
So it's it's it's hopeful, it'sit's reassuring to us that we
see that we did make so much ofan impact by traveling somewhere
that then another agencydecided, hey, we we need to
start a chapter here, we need todo the same thing.
We need to we need to pay thisforward and we need to return
this favor as well.
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
It works both ways.
You've been to probably thesmallest church buildings and
funeral homes, but you've alsobeen to soccer stadiums.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
Yeah, and it's really it's really different.
It's it's really kind of weirdgoing into some of these places
that I I really would neverimagine saying, we're gonna go
to the church of wherever.
And you walk in, and the placeis really it's a stadium, it's
massive.
Yes, and they have multiple bigmega churches.
Yeah, they have multiple arenasat these churches.
(27:25):
But again, some of them arereally small, really small
departments, uh, and then allthe way up, you know, up to the
biggest mega churches that thatyou can find.
And and we fill them up in NewYork.
Uh generally, we don't even gointo the church for a funeral
because we are so many, and wedon't have churches like that.
(27:46):
There are a couple around, butwe don't have these major
churches that can seat thousandsand thousands of people.
It's you know, small localparishes, small churches, and
it's it's family, it's execpolice executives and and the
command, the priesting wherethey work.
It's really reserved for them.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
So typically you're gonna be like lining the street
or something.
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, we're we're we're lined up, thousands of
cops on the street, we're justwaiting for that cue to get back
in line.
So then when you actually canget into some of these services,
it's a lot different because wedon't experience that part of it
here, and to be able to hear thefamily speak about their loved
one and get the you know, theirpartner to talk about them and
(28:28):
and you know, maybe somecommunity members and family.
And uh it really that's a bigdifference too for us when we tr
when we travel, we go somewhereelse.
So people come to visit us andthey stand outside of St.
Pat's in the rain for fourhours, but on the other end, you
know, you have some of thosemajor uh facilities that they
(28:49):
can really really fill up andget a lot of people in.
And it that's nice too becauseyou really you get to experience
it differently.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Yeah.
Can you name some of the placesthat you personally have gone?
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I mean, we've been to 300 probably almost 400, I
think I counted earlier, 375 uhfunerals since we got started.
Probably over a thousand copswe've sent.
Um not not individual, not alldifferent cops.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
Has there been, let me ask it this way, has there
been a state that Brotherhoodhas not gone to?
Oh probably not.
Yeah, I don't think there's anystate that hasn't had a line of
duty death.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
No, we've pretty much been everywhere at this
point.
The big one for me was going outgoing out to Dallas, really.
That was that was a horriblesituation.
Um, but it really kind ofchanged my perspective on
things.
I wasn't able to travel a lot.
(29:51):
But then when this happened inDallas, I got out there and I
had been at a point in mycareer, you know, we go through
all of these waves ofanti-police sentiment and
protesting, and we like thecops, we hate the cops, we like
the cops, we hate the cops.
I I really when that happened, Iwas I was considering maybe
(30:11):
leaving the department, youknow.
I it really just wasn't for meat the time, and and uh and and
it was a big decision to makebecause I had a lot of time on
already.
Um, but I really was really sickof being a cop.
And we went we went down thereto Dallas, we sent a large group
uh because we we kind of rotatedthrough because it the funerals
(30:34):
were over almost two weeks, Ithink.
So we were rotating peoplethrough, and uh really just the
outpouring of support from thecommunity and really from the
nation at that time kind ofchanged my perspective on on law
enforcement and uh what we weredoing and and how the community
(30:57):
responded to us.
And just because we were goingthrough some real crap uh didn't
didn't mean that everybody waswas against us at that time.
It really felt like that.
And you always want to say thereare good people out there in the
community, there are people thatappreciate what you do, but it's
really hard to hear them throughall the noise.
Yeah, going down there andreally seeing it and feeling it
(31:20):
kind of changed changed myperspective on it, and and I
felt a lot better about comingback and being the police again.
And then uh that's that's when Ithen shortly thereafter I I got
on the board.
I started as a travel secretary,and uh I was working with my old
partner, he's the one that kindof dragged me into this thing.
And uh he's still doing travel,bless his heart.
(31:41):
Where have you sent him?
Well, he's he's gone all overthe place.
He would go anywhere at thetime, really.
He he didn't care, he was goingall over the place.
And we have we have quite a fewguys, they answer up every time
they're ready to go, it doesn'tmatter.
You know, like I said, they'llthey'll answer for the smallest
places, and that's that's wherethey make the biggest impact, is
when we go to these smalldepartments.
(32:02):
Our uh entourage was larger thanthe agency that we were going
to, not really ever expectingit.
They were asked to stand honorguard, they were served as pull
bearers at funerals.
So, yeah, it really some of ourguys have really been caught off
guard, and it was it was veryimpactful for them too.
You know, they they were comingout to say thank you to this
(32:24):
family and to support them, andin return, they were being
treated kind of like thecelebrity, and it was really
weird for them.
But it it really does changeyou, it changes your perspective
and it changes your attitude onthings.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
You would think that going to the funeral of someone
who does your job who is waskilled in the line of duty would
be demoralizing.
That it would be filled withfear and that kind of thing.
But somehow what you'redescribing is that it actually
kept you going through yourretirement.
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
You would you would think it would be, but it's it
just I don't even know how todescribe it really.
It's just when you you feel thesupport in return, you know, and
and a lot of it are thesesmaller places, you know, you we
don't get that in in New York somuch, right?
Um the cop is killed and peopleare out there protesting still
(33:19):
and saying some really horriblethings and people have no filter
on social media, and and that'sjust all you're exposed to all
the time, you know.
So when you go to some of theseother places and you get away
from that noise of these liberalcities, and and you get to
really the heart of things,right?
(33:41):
And you get into um Main StreetAmerica instead of some of this
nonsense that goes on, that justreminds you that there really
there really are a lot of goodpeople, and there really are a
lot of people that that have ourback, that support what we do,
that appreciate us being there,and it really it we're going
there to support somebody else,but it it it's refreshing to us
(34:03):
too to get that feedback.
That's wonderful.
Jason, thank you for doing whatyou do.
All right, thank you for havingus on here.
SPEAKER_00 (34:09):
I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.
I want to thank Jason for beingon the show and especially for
being so accommodating.
He knew that I was trying tofind someone from Brotherhood
for the Fallen to be on the showin time for Police Week.
And he was really helpful tojump in and do this interview on
(34:31):
such short notice.
My hope is that everyonelistening to this program would
investigate whether they couldbegin a chapter of Brotherhood
for the Fallen.
It would not be an easy thing tocommit yourself to.
But a lot of worthwhile thingsare not easy.
You can find a link to the NewYork City chapter in the show
(34:52):
notes.
The views expressed here are thepersonal views of the host and
our guest, and do notnecessarily represent the views
of any law enforcement agency orits components.
If you like this episode, pleaseshare it with a cop or someone
who loves a cop.
Thank you for listening to HeyChaplin.
And as always, let's pray forpeace in our cities.
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