December 26, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, James talks about something he hasn’t addressed before: what happens when the communication tools everyone recommends simply don’t work for your child.
When James’s nonverbal son, Lucas, couldn’t physically use American Sign Language due to dexterity challenges, it felt like yet another failure in a long list of “solutions” that sounded good on paper but didn’t work in real life. Instead of forcing Lucas to fit a system that wasn’t built for him, James made a different choice. They changed the system.
This episode explores how gesture-based communication evolved in their home, why being understood matters more than doing things “the right way,” and how connection, safety, and dignity often come before progress charts and programs.
If you’ve ever worried you were doing it wrong, this conversation is for you.
It's Here! Get the book – “Hi World, I’m Dad: How Fathers Can Journey to Autism Awareness, Acceptance, and Appreciation” on audio, digital, or print.
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Also, be sure to read the blog that started it all - Hi Blog! I'm Dad.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Guttman (00:51):
Hi pod, it's James Guttman.
Guys, welcome back to anotheredition of the show.
It's Friday.
It's the Friday afterChristmas.
Which means that everythingChristmas wise is outdated.
Every time you see the tree,you think to yourself, I gotta
take that thing down soon.
And uh you're probablyconfused.
What day is it?
Why am I eating all these uhcookies and pieces of cheese?
(01:12):
Well, it's the holidays, soenjoy yourself.
Guys, thank you for taking thetime to check this out.
Whether you found me in anystreaming service, you know the
drill, iHeartRadio, Audible,Amazon Podcast.
Is that a thing?
Apple Podcasts, I meant to say.
Wherever podcasts are casted,you'll find this podcast.
So thank you.
Uh HighpodomDad.com has all ofour archives.
You're fantastic.
(01:33):
Yeah, man.
How are you guys feeling?
Did you have a good holiday?
I wrote about the holidays withmy son Lucas uh this past week.
It was one of those topics thatwas there in my head.
And if you had a chance tocheck it out, the feedback has
been great, and I appreciate itfrom you guys.
It's all about altering how wesee things, right?
It's all about seeing the truthin what we do.
(01:55):
And one of the things that I'vetried to do in my life is um
reframe what I'm doing, right?
So a lot of us, we look at theholidays and we think of what
are our kids not doing?
Lucas doesn't open presents,Lucas doesn't sit on Santa's
lap, Lucas doesn't care aboutElf on a shelf.
And it's easy to turn aroundand be like, how sad.
He's not doing any of theChristmas stuff.
(02:16):
Meanwhile, all of thatChristmas stuff are things that
we create, things that peoplecomplain about, materialism and
gifts and presents.
It's about the spirit of theholidays.
And there's nobody whorepresents the spirit of the
holidays more than my son.
Uh Lucas loves to be around us.
He loves to have a good meal,he loves to just have fun with
the family.
And I've noticed it even onChristmas and on these holidays
(02:39):
where he'll come downstairs,we'll be watching a Christmas
movie, and he'll just lay on thecouch, kind of hang out with
us.
He doesn't want to go anywhere.
He knows it's a special day.
So I try to make it a specialday for him.
Take one day where we don't,you know, criticize him all day.
Like if there's food out andabout, we're conscious of the
fact that he's going to betempted by it.
I try to keep it out of his outof his eyesight so that he
(03:01):
doesn't have to constantly bereprimanded.
Like, stop it, Lucas.
Don't do that.
Don't get me wrong.
He has to learn.
But maybe, maybe one day wetake a break from life lessons
for this kid and just kind oflet him be a kid and let him
enjoy himself.
So that's what I wrote about.
If you got a chance to check itout, I appreciate it.
Hiblog on Dad.com.
It has all the blogs and allthe things that I post about.
Now, today I wanted to talkabout something a little
(03:23):
different.
Um, I want to talk about atopic.
I haven't talked about itbefore.
It's important to know, it'simportant to explain, and I
think there's a lot of parentsin this situation right now that
I was in and I kind of found myway out of.
Now, here's the idea.
For my son, right?
Completely nonverbal.
He uses a device, um, ProloQo,people have asked what the app
(03:47):
is on his communication device.
It's called Proloquo.
It's a little owl.
If you were to buy it on yourown, it costs $300 because of
course it would, how terrible.
But we got it through theschool, through the system, and
he loves it.
It's great.
He can ask for pirate booty, hecan ask for pizza, he can ask
for sandwiches in quesadillas.
That's pretty much what he usesit for.
It's like his menu.
It's like his digital menu.
(04:09):
We've tried, we've given himthe option, and he's he's
learned through the years to askfor other things too.
He can ask for the bathroom, hecan ask for help, uh, all that
through the device, but it's notalways the easiest way to go.
First of all, he hasn't carriedaround with him all the time.
He doesn't.
It's not, I don't want to sayit's not realistic, but it's an
expectation that as a parent, Ican't do that, man.
(04:31):
And I'm telling you straight upright now.
And if you're listening to thisand you have young kids and you
have people coming to yourhouse telling you the things
that you need to do, I know whatyou're thinking.
There are many times whereyou're told to do things that
are great.
They sound fantastic on paper,but you're not gonna do them.
Like, oh, he should always havehis device on him.
It's like, lady, do you knowhow many things I carry around
(04:54):
to get this kid out of thehouse?
Do you know how hard it is toget him to wear a device around
his neck just for a car ride?
He's holding an iPad, we havedrinks and pirate booty.
So it's not always easy to haveit on hand.
Not to say we don't bring it.
So we'll bring it, it'll be ina bag, but for the most part,
it's not just readilyaccessible.
And a lot of times with him,the things that he needs are
like right now, right now.
(05:15):
So if the iPad is out, if thedevice is out and he wants a
food or if he wants something,eventually I'll be like, ah,
Lucas, come here, just show me.
And he puts his iPad down, hegoes over to it, swipes through
it, and takes a few minutes, buthe we get to what we have to
get to.
So I get it.
And through the years I've hadthat happen where they have
suggested things to me that I'mlike, he's not gonna do this, or
(05:36):
it's not helpful.
Case in point, social stories.
Now, if you have a kid likemine, you know what a social
story is, right?
It's a comic, essentially.
Like it's it's one um what's itcalled?
One box, one box comic.
Just pretty much a little guy,a little stick guy, and it shows
him going about his business,right?
(05:58):
So we have to go to the store.
So now you show your kid asocial story, and there's the
little stick guy, and there heis washing up, and there he is
getting in a car, and there heis at the store.
And for a lot of kids, they seethis.
Oh, okay.
I get up, I go, I go to thestore.
My kid does not care aboutsocial stories, like at all.
And I've never really been ableto figure it out because he is
(06:19):
obsessive about videos andYouTube videos, but they have to
be the videos and YouTubevideos that he loves.
He doesn't look at pictures onmy phone.
He will to appease me.
Uh, even with social stories,we would show it to him, be
like, Lucas, we have to go out.
Look, this is what we're gonnado.
And he'll just tap it.
Like, all right.
The closest I've come to seeinghim use this type of idea
(06:40):
behind what he has to do is ifwe're gonna go see somebody,
right?
Like if we're gonna go see hissister to pick her up, I will
show him a picture of hissister.
I go, we're gonna see Olivia.
You want to go see Olivia?
And then he knows what we'redoing, where we're going.
If we're going to the pool,I'll show him a picture of a
swimming pool.
I'm like, we're gonna go to thepool, you're gonna go to the
pool, and then he gets it.
So that he'll do.
But just kind of like we dothis and this and this, he
(07:01):
doesn't care.
He'll just go and do what hehas to do.
But that was one example of it.
Now, with my son having nowords, the first thing that
people ask about, and the firstthing that everyone suggests is
what everyone says.
Everyone told us ASL, AmericanSign Language, was the answer.
The problem was Lucas couldn'tpoint.
(07:23):
He has problems with dexteritywith his fingers, he has OT,
he's not able to point, he's notable to do certain movements.
And a lot of American signlanguage involves, you know,
manipulating your digits andyour fingers and pointing and
just small differences.
Like, oh, two fingers meansthis, four fingers means this.
I can't get this kid to do onefinger.
(07:43):
And I've tried, I've held hisfinger even now.
He's 14 years old.
And there's some reason why hecan't do it.
So his finger, it always lookslike um the snow white witch
offering her the apple, youknow, and she's like, come here,
my dearie.
And she's doing like a littlelike come hither finger.
That's what his point lookslike is this come hither kind of
movement.
And everyone said American SignLanguage.
(08:04):
And here I am thinking tomyself, my kid can't speak and I
can't teach him words.
And now the alternative is toteach him movements and I can't
teach him those movements.
I'm screwed.
And as a parent, especially inthat time, I beat myself up
about it.
I know we all beat ourselves upabout it.
Because what are we supposed todo?
(08:24):
All the alternatives, I can'tdo it.
I mean, you talk about feelinglike a failure.
I get it.
This was at a time period whereI'm like, my kid, I'm failing
my kid.
My kid is not speaking.
I've been waiting for him totalk.
People are asking me, does hesay words yet?
And you're fielding that.
So now you're like, all right,I'll teach him sign language,
and then he can't do that.
And you're like, we're done.
So for a while it felt like wewere doing something wrong.
(08:47):
It felt like I was failing leftand right.
This system that they weresuggesting to me as a young
parent was something thateverybody did.
This is the system.
This is how it works, this iswhat I need to do.
But it became clear that Icouldn't do it.
He couldn't do it.
And to force this would be akinto finding another huge Mount
(09:08):
Everest to try to climb everysingle day that was not going to
happen.
So I went from being unable toteach him words and knowing that
that was too big of a task toput all of our eggs in that
basket for his communication.
And now, oh yeah, I'll teachhim sign language.
But then it became clear thatwas like just a slightly smaller
Mount Everest.
This kid's getting OT.
This kid can't bend hisfingers.
(09:29):
What am I supposed to do?
So instead of forcing him tofit into the system, we just
changed the system.
We found what worked for him.
And I'll tell you, with my son,that's when the communication
really started.
Lucas doesn't do American signlanguage.
Lucas doesn't even do gesturesthe way you would expect.
(09:50):
He does our gestures.
Now I made sure, right, rightfrom the beginning, to teach him
things that they might not beout of a textbook.
Not everybody might knowexactly what he wants right
away, but they have an idea ofit.
For example, no, no, no.
That's our big thing.
To this day, now we all do nono-no in our house the way Lucas
does it.
I try to teach Lucas early on,take one finger, and I would put
(10:12):
my hand up, one finger, andjust wag it back and forth.
Just straight up, hold it up,wag it back and forth.
Lucas can't do that.
Lucas can't extend his finger,and if he could, he can't wag it
at all, right?
And I saw that.
I noted it early on.
To this day, it still exists.
So what he does is he puts twofingers together, like a chef's
(10:32):
kiss, and he waves his hand backand forth.
Now, if you see it, it mightnot be immediately clear, but
you figure it out.
Like you go, Lucas, do you wantsomething?
And back and forth.
Sometimes he doesn't even dothe finger, sometimes just his
hand back and forth, like nah,like that, which is fantastic
because most people get that.
That's a movement he can make,and that's a movement that we
(10:53):
do.
And it's a movement that'sunderstood by most people.
Now, again, it's not AmericanSign Language, it's not a deeper
form of communication.
No, no, no is maybe not, youknow, the deepest phrasing to
teach him, but it's somethingthat he wouldn't be able to do
any other way.
He can't shake his head no.
I mean, he can, but he doesn't.
I don't know why.
If you try to get him to nod,he kind of bounces up and down.
(11:16):
There's a lot of issues that hehas with isolating different
parts of his body.
Why?
I don't know.
I'm a dad, I'm not a doctor, soI'm not here to figure it out.
Well, what's work on those?
You know what?
The only thing I have to workon is making sure that my son is
understood.
And that's what I taught him.
So a lot of these things,whether it's the wagging back
and forth with his fingers, andlike I said before, we do it to
(11:36):
this day.
Like if Olivia needs something,but you need something, she'll
do that across the room.
Um, but it's also embracing thethings that he can do.
Just because he can't docertain things with his fingers,
whatever, I'm aware of what hiscapabilities are, and because
of that, I'm able to teach himthe things that he can do.
For example, more.
If you have a nonverbal kid,you know more.
More is two fists together.
(11:58):
That's what it is.
You look like uh like a prowrestler in the 1980s, like Hulk
Hogan must pose.
That is that's how Lucas askedfor more.
He goes, You want more?
And he does it.
He does a little two fiststogether that he can do.
He can ball up his fist, he canbang them together.
Now, if he had to bang twofingers together, if he had to
like swirl around, he can't dothat stuff.
I get it.
But I'm aware of what that is.
So the things that arepossible, we do, and the things
(12:20):
that aren't possible, we alter,we make it work for us.
Um, there have been so manychanges that we've made to how
we handle Lucas' form ofcommunication.
And the reason why is becauseLucas, like all of us, is an
evolving person.
He's growing, he's learning,he's changing.
(12:42):
Does that mean he's gonna havewords one day?
I don't know, maybe.
Hopefully.
At this point, even if hedeveloped words right now, do I
ever think it'll be his mainform of communication?
Probably not.
Do I feel like he's understoodin our house?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So my take to you is thisbecause if you're listening to
(13:04):
this right now and you'rethinking, okay, well, now I have
to do this.
You don't have to do anything.
You have to make sure that yourkid can be understood by you.
And your kid knows that they'reunderstood by you.
That's it.
That's all I needed to do withhim.
Because I'll tell you this inthe very beginning, when the
sign language thing came out andI felt like a failure and I
couldn't do it, my concern was Iam gonna screw this up.
(13:26):
I'm gonna teach him all weirdstuff.
No one's gonna get it.
I'm doing it wrong, you know,and that's it.
And I think a lot of that earlyparenting is the fear of am I
doing this wrong?
Absolutely, are you doing itwrong?
Because it's you're already ina place where you're wondering
what happened, right?
Like, I'm wondering, why is mykid not talking?
(13:47):
Why is his first words nothappened?
Why are these people stillasking me, why is this freaking
kid over here telling me aknock-knock joke?
And he's a you're younger thanmy kid.
Well, I don't want to kick thisfour-year-old up here.
You don't want to do that,right?
You can't kick other people'skids.
So you're getting all thatfrustration and you're dealing
with it, and you're like, oh myGod, oh my god, oh my God.
That when you finally make thedecision of I have to do
something that works for us, thefear is I'm gonna mess that up
(14:11):
because maybe I messed somethingup already.
You haven't messed anything up.
Your number one priority shouldalways be your kid.
And long term, look, don't getme wrong, long term, you have to
find things that help your kidcommunicate with the world.
Got it.
Short term, your kid has tofeel safe.
Your kid has to feel likethey're understood, and your kid
(14:33):
has to feel like they cancommunicate their wants to you.
And once you're able to dothat, you could build on that
and you can teach that and youmake them teachable and you show
them ways to do it.
So I'll tell them at school,I'll explain to them.
This is no, no, no, this isyes, this is how he asks for
more.
So they have an idea of it andthey can see it and they can
understand it.
But if you teach your kidanything, you're not gonna mess
(14:55):
them up.
I'll give you an example ofwhy, why I think I thought that,
why it was silly.
And again, if you're listeningto this and you have a nonverbal
child in your life, you knowthis fear I'm about to tell you
about.
And this is a blog post that Iwrote years ago that has stuck
with me.
Every once in a while, I'llwrite something that, like years
(15:16):
later, I still think about it.
Because it's a big deal.
It really is.
And it was uh, for me, aturning point.
And it's it's a blog post Idon't even think people remember
or really like register, butthose are sometimes the most
powerful ones for me personally.
I wrote a blog post about himgetting his device, and I wish I
could remember the name of it,doing what's best for your
(15:36):
child, I think is what it wascalled.
This is like 2019, 2020.
And I had explained that whenhe was first offered a
communication device, my initialthought was no.
Because just like this thingwith the American Sign Language
and doing our own gesture-basedcommunication, here was my fear.
My fear was if we give this kida device, he's never gonna
(16:00):
talk.
He's just gonna always punchbuttons on the device.
Why would he want to talk?
In hindsight, it soundsridiculous.
Because if a kid has thecapabilities to talk and you
give him a device, they're notgonna be like, oh, I'm never
gonna talk.
No, you give them a devicebecause for whatever reason, at
the time he wasn't doing it.
(16:20):
Whether he wasn't able to ordidn't want to, all that
mattered was in that moment noone understood what he wanted.
And he knew that no oneunderstood what he wanted.
He was locked away.
He was the one who maybe hadthings he wanted to say or ask
for.
And that device was his key togetting it.
And my initial thought was tosay no out of that fear.
(16:42):
But I gave in.
And when I wrote this blog postyears ago, the point of view
that I gave on it was howsometimes you have to kind of
give up as a parent and just belike, you know what?
This is what's best for my kid.
He needs to have this.
And my fears and my worries andmy concerns, for whatever they
are.
For me, the concern was that hewas never going to talk because
of it, but other people haveconcerns and never beat yourself
(17:05):
up over what those concernsare, right?
They might not be the same asmine, but they're your own.
There's some people who areembarrassed by it.
I mean, you hear that, it givesa visceral reaction.
I don't love thinking aboutthat, but I'm aware of it.
We're all different people.
Some people are embarrassed bythe idea of it.
And it takes a lot for them toget past that.
And for that, you have toapplaud them.
You can't condemn someone forwhat their internal monologue
(17:28):
tells them, but you can applaudthem for getting past it,
whatever it might be.
So you have to get past that.
And you give your kid thecommunication device, you allow
them to speak, you allow them tohave their own voice.
And I will tell you this, andthis was a separate blog post,
again, something that stuck withme through the years.
And this one I actually evenremember the name of.
It was called I Knew the PizzaWas His Favorite.
(17:49):
And it was because for years,this kid, this is like, I mean,
this is one of my favorite partsof writing these things because
this was a major moment.
For years, we just gave himfood.
You know, it was dinner time.
Here's what you got chickennuggets, here's what you got,
raviology.
Like whatever we had, just wentto him, he ate it, he dealt
with it.
The second he had a device andhe was able to ask for the foods
(18:10):
that he wanted, we learned whathe liked.
He likes pizza.
He would ask for pizza.
And I remember the first timehe asked for it, and then I gave
it to him, and seeing it on hisface that he got what he
wanted.
That was major.
And I think, like, you know, wewe I stay away from the the
(18:34):
pity party parenting bloggingstuff.
I hate it, I don't like to doit, I don't record meltdowns.
You guys know my whole dealwith that.
But I felt so sad in thatmoment for what could have been
if he never had that device.
This was a kid.
And as we all know, we all haveyou know, if you have kids, we
(18:56):
don't all have kids, but if wehave kids, I have a neurotypical
daughter three years older thanhim.
Kids want what they want.
Kids want certain candies,certain food, certain things,
certain shows, certain toys.
And they ask you all the time,kids can be annoying.
You know, can we go toMcDonald's?
Can we go to McDonald's?
Can we go to McDonald's?
Lucas never did that.
So for the first seven years ofhis life, however long it was,
(19:19):
he just kind of got what he got.
But in his head, there werethings that he wanted.
He's a kid, he wants pizza,wants french fries, he wants
whatever.
And for the first time, he wasnow able to ask for it.
And seeing the joy on his face,seeing now how he knows to ask
for what he wants.
And there's ways to do it too.
And as time goes on and youevolve, you know, we talk about
these gestures and the device orwhatnot.
(19:41):
Like there's other ways we doit.
He'll lead me by the hand, hepushes things away.
He's able to tell me what hewants.
And I will say this since thedevice and since the gestures
and things like that, it'salmost given him more confidence
to be able to tell me what hewants in any way that he can, in
a way where He knows that Iunderstand it.
(20:01):
I never laugh it off, move on,and that's that's so important.
It's all about putting yourselfin the shoes of someone else.
And for my son with no words,it's not always easy.
Because there's a lot of aboutthis kid's world that is not my
world, you know, and there's alot about what he does and how
(20:21):
he goes about things.
To be able to project myselfinto him and see it through his
eyes is not the easiest thing inthe world.
But it is so important becauseit guides what I do as his dad,
it guides where we go in thefuture, and it guides how I help
him interact.
So you don't do anything wrongby teaching them in the way that
(20:43):
they learn.
The whole point is to give himcommunication, and whether those
are official sign languagethings or whether it's just
gestures that we get and otherpeople will get, it's so
important.
And I'm so grateful that I didit that way.
So if you're listening to thisand you're going through it,
don't sweat it.
It's not as uh it's not asconcrete.
Like a lot of a lot of thosethings early on, man, when you
(21:05):
have a kid on the spectrum,there's there's letters and
abbreviations.
Did you get the the CSE meetingfor the ADL and the PPP?
It's like, what are you talkingabout?
And you feel overwhelmed andyou feel like you have to follow
things a certain way.
You don't have to followanything.
You just have to make sure yourkid is understood by, in the
very least, you.
(21:25):
And I guarantee this, right?
I'm telling you, and I don'toffer a lot of guarantees, and I
don't do a lot of catch allnets and things like that.
Especially if you have a kidwho's acting out or who you feel
like is melting down a lot orhaving tantrums.
Have them fully know thatthey're being understood by you,
and you will see a drop inthat.
(21:46):
I promise you.
It happened to us.
Like for a while.
Lucas was never, you know, thisbig fussy kid, but he did have
little meltdowns.
He would get fussy.
And it became clear to me oncewe started this communication
with gestures and things likethat, he's kind of stopped doing
it.
Once he realized that I gothim, you know, even now he'll
ask for a cookie.
I'll be like, go downstairs,I'll give you a cookie soon.
(22:07):
And I do all my pantomime andmy hands, and after you get a
cookie, do all the gestures thatwe do.
I mean, again, my gestures arelike after is like a rainbow
motion.
It's like it's all over theplace.
But he gets it.
And he'll walk away and he'llwhine a little bit and he'll
leave.
But there was a time where hewould throw himself on the
floor, run into me.
Like, doesn't do any of that.
(22:29):
Because he knows that I've gothim.
He knows that I'm listening, heknows that he's being
understood, and he knows thatthe things that he wants are
coming.
It's all about patience.
So good luck to you, man.
If you guys are listening tothis, that's what you do.
If you are a parent and you areteaching your kid this, keep
going.
Whatever works for you worksfor you.
If you're a grandparent, ifyou're a relative and you have
someone in your life who hasautism or somebody, do it too,
(22:52):
man.
You could totally do it.
If you want them to dosomething with you, eat a
cookie, like there's certainmovements like putting your hand
to your mouth, like it's justkind of understood.
That's eating, things likethat.
So work on it.
And you know what?
Ask.
Ask.
If the parents are there, say,how can I show him that I want
to give him this?
How can I show him that this isgood to eat?
And they'll show you some ofthe things that they do.
(23:13):
It's all about communicating.
And it's all about opening thatdoor instead of just sitting
there and being like, Why can'the do it the way I do it?
I don't know.
Why can't you do it the waythey do it?
That's it.
That's a good line to end on,right?
It's good.
Realize all right, good.
So we're gonna end on that,guys.
I appreciate you being hereagain.
Follow me on social media,H-I-James Gutman.
Hi.
Hi, James Gutman.
(23:34):
I'm on TikTok, Instagram,Facebook.
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I'm on threads.
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Yeah, if it's if it's some sortof worked social media thing,
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Uh so follow me everywhere.
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Go to highblogomdad.com.
And also if you're looking tobook a speaker, I am now pushing
(23:56):
it.
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(24:19):
Wednesday, back here nextFriday.
Until then, this is JamesGutman saying, be well.
I'm daddy, I'm gonna go to thebody.
Hi pod, it's James Guttman.
Guys, welcome back to anotheredition of the show.
It's Friday.
It's the Friday afterChristmas.
Which means that everythingChristmas wise is outdated.
Every time you see the tree,you think to yourself, I gotta
take that thing down soon.
And uh you're probablyconfused.
What day is it?
Why am I eating all these uhcookies and pieces of cheese?
(01:12):
Well, it's the holidays, soenjoy yourself.
Guys, thank you for taking thetime to check this out.
Whether you found me in anystreaming service, you know the
drill, iHeartRadio, Audible,Amazon Podcast.
Is that a thing?
Apple Podcasts, I meant to say.
Wherever podcasts are casted,you'll find this podcast.
So thank you.
Uh HighpodomDad.com has all ofour archives.
You're fantastic.
(01:33):
Yeah, man.
How are you guys feeling?
Did you have a good holiday?
I wrote about the holidays withmy son Lucas uh this past week.
It was one of those topics thatwas there in my head.
And if you had a chance tocheck it out, the feedback has
been great, and I appreciate itfrom you guys.
It's all about altering how wesee things, right?
It's all about seeing the truthin what we do.
(01:55):
And one of the things that I'vetried to do in my life is um
reframe what I'm doing, right?
So a lot of us, we look at theholidays and we think of what
are our kids not doing?
Lucas doesn't open presents,Lucas doesn't sit on Santa's
lap, Lucas doesn't care aboutElf on a shelf.
And it's easy to turn aroundand be like, how sad.
He's not doing any of theChristmas stuff.
(02:16):
Meanwhile, all of thatChristmas stuff are things that
we create, things that peoplecomplain about, materialism and
gifts and presents.
It's about the spirit of theholidays.
And there's nobody whorepresents the spirit of the
holidays more than my son.
Uh Lucas loves to be around us.
He loves to have a good meal,he loves to just have fun with
the family.
And I've noticed it even onChristmas and on these holidays
(02:39):
where he'll come downstairs,we'll be watching a Christmas
movie, and he'll just lay on thecouch, kind of hang out with
us.
He doesn't want to go anywhere.
He knows it's a special day.
So I try to make it a specialday for him.
Take one day where we don't,you know, criticize him all day.
Like if there's food out andabout, we're conscious of the
fact that he's going to betempted by it.
I try to keep it out of his outof his eyesight so that he
(03:01):
doesn't have to constantly bereprimanded.
Like, stop it, Lucas.
Don't do that.
Don't get me wrong.
He has to learn.
But maybe, maybe one day wetake a break from life lessons
for this kid and just kind oflet him be a kid and let him
enjoy himself.
So that's what I wrote about.
If you got a chance to check itout, I appreciate it.
Hiblog on Dad.com.
It has all the blogs and allthe things that I post about.
Now, today I wanted to talkabout something a little
(03:23):
different.
Um, I want to talk about atopic.
I haven't talked about itbefore.
It's important to know, it'simportant to explain, and I
think there's a lot of parentsin this situation right now that
I was in and I kind of found myway out of.
Now, here's the idea.
For my son, right?
Completely nonverbal.
He uses a device, um, ProloQo,people have asked what the app
(03:47):
is on his communication device.
It's called Proloquo.
It's a little owl.
If you were to buy it on yourown, it costs $300 because of
course it would, how terrible.
But we got it through theschool, through the system, and
he loves it.
It's great.
He can ask for pirate booty, hecan ask for pizza, he can ask
for sandwiches in quesadillas.
That's pretty much what he usesit for.
It's like his menu.
It's like his digital menu.
(04:09):
We've tried, we've given himthe option, and he's he's
learned through the years to askfor other things too.
He can ask for the bathroom, hecan ask for help, uh, all that
through the device, but it's notalways the easiest way to go.
First of all, he hasn't carriedaround with him all the time.
He doesn't.
It's not, I don't want to sayit's not realistic, but it's an
expectation that as a parent, Ican't do that, man.
(04:31):
And I'm telling you straight upright now.
And if you're listening to thisand you have young kids and you
have people coming to yourhouse telling you the things
that you need to do, I know whatyou're thinking.
There are many times whereyou're told to do things that
are great.
They sound fantastic on paper,but you're not gonna do them.
Like, oh, he should always havehis device on him.
It's like, lady, do you knowhow many things I carry around
(04:54):
to get this kid out of thehouse?
Do you know how hard it is toget him to wear a device around
his neck just for a car ride?
He's holding an iPad, we havedrinks and pirate booty.
So it's not always easy to haveit on hand.
Not to say we don't bring it.
So we'll bring it, it'll be ina bag, but for the most part,
it's not just readilyaccessible.
And a lot of times with him,the things that he needs are
like right now, right now.
(05:15):
So if the iPad is out, if thedevice is out and he wants a
food or if he wants something,eventually I'll be like, ah,
Lucas, come here, just show me.
And he puts his iPad down, hegoes over to it, swipes through
it, and takes a few minutes, buthe we get to what we have to
get to.
So I get it.
And through the years I've hadthat happen where they have
suggested things to me that I'mlike, he's not gonna do this, or
(05:36):
it's not helpful.
Case in point, social stories.
Now, if you have a kid likemine, you know what a social
story is, right?
It's a comic, essentially.
Like it's it's one um what's itcalled?
One box, one box comic.
Just pretty much a little guy,a little stick guy, and it shows
him going about his business,right?
(05:58):
So we have to go to the store.
So now you show your kid asocial story, and there's the
little stick guy, and there heis washing up, and there he is
getting in a car, and there heis at the store.
And for a lot of kids, they seethis.
Oh, okay.
I get up, I go, I go to thestore.
My kid does not care aboutsocial stories, like at all.
And I've never really been ableto figure it out because he is
(06:19):
obsessive about videos andYouTube videos, but they have to
be the videos and YouTubevideos that he loves.
He doesn't look at pictures onmy phone.
He will to appease me.
Uh, even with social stories,we would show it to him, be
like, Lucas, we have to go out.
Look, this is what we're gonnado.
And he'll just tap it.
Like, all right.
The closest I've come to seeinghim use this type of idea
(06:40):
behind what he has to do is ifwe're gonna go see somebody,
right?
Like if we're gonna go see hissister to pick her up, I will
show him a picture of hissister.
I go, we're gonna see Olivia.
You want to go see Olivia?
And then he knows what we'redoing, where we're going.
If we're going to the pool,I'll show him a picture of a
swimming pool.
I'm like, we're gonna go to thepool, you're gonna go to the
pool, and then he gets it.
So that he'll do.
But just kind of like we dothis and this and this, he
(07:01):
doesn't care.
He'll just go and do what hehas to do.
But that was one example of it.
Now, with my son having nowords, the first thing that
people ask about, and the firstthing that everyone suggests is
what everyone says.
Everyone told us ASL, AmericanSign Language, was the answer.
The problem was Lucas couldn'tpoint.
(07:23):
He has problems with dexteritywith his fingers, he has OT,
he's not able to point, he's notable to do certain movements.
And a lot of American signlanguage involves, you know,
manipulating your digits andyour fingers and pointing and
just small differences.
Like, oh, two fingers meansthis, four fingers means this.
I can't get this kid to do onefinger.
(07:43):
And I've tried, I've held hisfinger even now.
He's 14 years old.
And there's some reason why hecan't do it.
So his finger, it always lookslike um the snow white witch
offering her the apple, youknow, and she's like, come here,
my dearie.
And she's doing like a littlelike come hither finger.
That's what his point lookslike is this come hither kind of
movement.
And everyone said American SignLanguage.
(08:04):
And here I am thinking tomyself, my kid can't speak and I
can't teach him words.
And now the alternative is toteach him movements and I can't
teach him those movements.
I'm screwed.
And as a parent, especially inthat time, I beat myself up
about it.
I know we all beat ourselves upabout it.
Because what are we supposed todo?
(08:24):
All the alternatives, I can'tdo it.
I mean, you talk about feelinglike a failure.
I get it.
This was at a time period whereI'm like, my kid, I'm failing
my kid.
My kid is not speaking.
I've been waiting for him totalk.
People are asking me, does hesay words yet?
And you're fielding that.
So now you're like, all right,I'll teach him sign language,
and then he can't do that.
And you're like, we're done.
So for a while it felt like wewere doing something wrong.
(08:47):
It felt like I was failing leftand right.
This system that they weresuggesting to me as a young
parent was something thateverybody did.
This is the system.
This is how it works, this iswhat I need to do.
But it became clear that Icouldn't do it.
He couldn't do it.
And to force this would be akinto finding another huge Mount
(09:08):
Everest to try to climb everysingle day that was not going to
happen.
So I went from being unable toteach him words and knowing that
that was too big of a task toput all of our eggs in that
basket for his communication.
And now, oh yeah, I'll teachhim sign language.
But then it became clear thatwas like just a slightly smaller
Mount Everest.
This kid's getting OT.
This kid can't bend hisfingers.
(09:29):
What am I supposed to do?
So instead of forcing him tofit into the system, we just
changed the system.
We found what worked for him.
And I'll tell you, with my son,that's when the communication
really started.
Lucas doesn't do American signlanguage.
Lucas doesn't even do gesturesthe way you would expect.
(09:50):
He does our gestures.
Now I made sure, right, rightfrom the beginning, to teach him
things that they might not beout of a textbook.
Not everybody might knowexactly what he wants right
away, but they have an idea ofit.
For example, no, no, no.
That's our big thing.
To this day, now we all do nono-no in our house the way Lucas
does it.
I try to teach Lucas early on,take one finger, and I would put
(10:12):
my hand up, one finger, andjust wag it back and forth.
Just straight up, hold it up,wag it back and forth.
Lucas can't do that.
Lucas can't extend his finger,and if he could, he can't wag it
at all, right?
And I saw that.
I noted it early on.
To this day, it still exists.
So what he does is he puts twofingers together, like a chef's
(10:32):
kiss, and he waves his hand backand forth.
Now, if you see it, it mightnot be immediately clear, but
you figure it out.
Like you go, Lucas, do you wantsomething?
And back and forth.
Sometimes he doesn't even dothe finger, sometimes just his
hand back and forth, like nah,like that, which is fantastic
because most people get that.
That's a movement he can make,and that's a movement that we
(10:53):
do.
And it's a movement that'sunderstood by most people.
Now, again, it's not AmericanSign Language, it's not a deeper
form of communication.
No, no, no is maybe not, youknow, the deepest phrasing to
teach him, but it's somethingthat he wouldn't be able to do
any other way.
He can't shake his head no.
I mean, he can, but he doesn't.
I don't know why.
If you try to get him to nod,he kind of bounces up and down.
(11:16):
There's a lot of issues that hehas with isolating different
parts of his body.
Why?
I don't know.
I'm a dad, I'm not a doctor, soI'm not here to figure it out.
Well, what's work on those?
You know what?
The only thing I have to workon is making sure that my son is
understood.
And that's what I taught him.
So a lot of these things,whether it's the wagging back
and forth with his fingers, andlike I said before, we do it to
(11:36):
this day.
Like if Olivia needs something,but you need something, she'll
do that across the room.
Um, but it's also embracing thethings that he can do.
Just because he can't docertain things with his fingers,
whatever, I'm aware of what hiscapabilities are, and because
of that, I'm able to teach himthe things that he can do.
For example, more.
If you have a nonverbal kid,you know more.
More is two fists together.
(11:58):
That's what it is.
You look like uh like a prowrestler in the 1980s, like Hulk
Hogan must pose.
That is that's how Lucas askedfor more.
He goes, You want more?
And he does it.
He does a little two fiststogether that he can do.
He can ball up his fist, he canbang them together.
Now, if he had to bang twofingers together, if he had to
like swirl around, he can't dothat stuff.
I get it.
But I'm aware of what that is.
So the things that arepossible, we do, and the things
(12:20):
that aren't possible, we alter,we make it work for us.
Um, there have been so manychanges that we've made to how
we handle Lucas' form ofcommunication.
And the reason why is becauseLucas, like all of us, is an
evolving person.
He's growing, he's learning,he's changing.
(12:42):
Does that mean he's gonna havewords one day?
I don't know, maybe.
Hopefully.
At this point, even if hedeveloped words right now, do I
ever think it'll be his mainform of communication?
Probably not.
Do I feel like he's understoodin our house?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So my take to you is thisbecause if you're listening to
(13:04):
this right now and you'rethinking, okay, well, now I have
to do this.
You don't have to do anything.
You have to make sure that yourkid can be understood by you.
And your kid knows that they'reunderstood by you.
That's it.
That's all I needed to do withhim.
Because I'll tell you this inthe very beginning, when the
sign language thing came out andI felt like a failure and I
couldn't do it, my concern was Iam gonna screw this up.
(13:26):
I'm gonna teach him all weirdstuff.
No one's gonna get it.
I'm doing it wrong, you know,and that's it.
And I think a lot of that earlyparenting is the fear of am I
doing this wrong?
Absolutely, are you doing itwrong?
Because it's you're already ina place where you're wondering
what happened, right?
Like, I'm wondering, why is mykid not talking?
(13:47):
Why is his first words nothappened?
Why are these people stillasking me, why is this freaking
kid over here telling me aknock-knock joke?
And he's a you're younger thanmy kid.
Well, I don't want to kick thisfour-year-old up here.
You don't want to do that,right?
You can't kick other people'skids.
So you're getting all thatfrustration and you're dealing
with it, and you're like, oh myGod, oh my god, oh my God.
That when you finally make thedecision of I have to do
something that works for us, thefear is I'm gonna mess that up
(14:11):
because maybe I messed somethingup already.
You haven't messed anything up.
Your number one priority shouldalways be your kid.
And long term, look, don't getme wrong, long term, you have to
find things that help your kidcommunicate with the world.
Got it.
Short term, your kid has tofeel safe.
Your kid has to feel likethey're understood, and your kid
(14:33):
has to feel like they cancommunicate their wants to you.
And once you're able to dothat, you could build on that
and you can teach that and youmake them teachable and you show
them ways to do it.
So I'll tell them at school,I'll explain to them.
This is no, no, no, this isyes, this is how he asks for
more.
So they have an idea of it andthey can see it and they can
understand it.
But if you teach your kidanything, you're not gonna mess
(14:55):
them up.
I'll give you an example ofwhy, why I think I thought that,
why it was silly.
And again, if you're listeningto this and you have a nonverbal
child in your life, you knowthis fear I'm about to tell you
about.
And this is a blog post that Iwrote years ago that has stuck
with me.
Every once in a while, I'llwrite something that, like years
(15:16):
later, I still think about it.
Because it's a big deal.
It really is.
And it was uh, for me, aturning point.
And it's it's a blog post Idon't even think people remember
or really like register, butthose are sometimes the most
powerful ones for me personally.
I wrote a blog post about himgetting his device, and I wish I
could remember the name of it,doing what's best for your
(15:36):
child, I think is what it wascalled.
This is like 2019, 2020.
And I had explained that whenhe was first offered a
communication device, my initialthought was no.
Because just like this thingwith the American Sign Language
and doing our own gesture-basedcommunication, here was my fear.
My fear was if we give this kida device, he's never gonna
(16:00):
talk.
He's just gonna always punchbuttons on the device.
Why would he want to talk?
In hindsight, it soundsridiculous.
Because if a kid has thecapabilities to talk and you
give him a device, they're notgonna be like, oh, I'm never
gonna talk.
No, you give them a devicebecause for whatever reason, at
the time he wasn't doing it.
(16:20):
Whether he wasn't able to ordidn't want to, all that
mattered was in that moment noone understood what he wanted.
And he knew that no oneunderstood what he wanted.
He was locked away.
He was the one who maybe hadthings he wanted to say or ask
for.
And that device was his key togetting it.
And my initial thought was tosay no out of that fear.
(16:42):
But I gave in.
And when I wrote this blog postyears ago, the point of view
that I gave on it was howsometimes you have to kind of
give up as a parent and just belike, you know what?
This is what's best for my kid.
He needs to have this.
And my fears and my worries andmy concerns, for whatever they
are.
For me, the concern was that hewas never going to talk because
of it, but other people haveconcerns and never beat yourself
(17:05):
up over what those concernsare, right?
They might not be the same asmine, but they're your own.
There's some people who areembarrassed by it.
I mean, you hear that, it givesa visceral reaction.
I don't love thinking aboutthat, but I'm aware of it.
We're all different people.
Some people are embarrassed bythe idea of it.
And it takes a lot for them toget past that.
And for that, you have toapplaud them.
You can't condemn someone forwhat their internal monologue
(17:28):
tells them, but you can applaudthem for getting past it,
whatever it might be.
So you have to get past that.
And you give your kid thecommunication device, you allow
them to speak, you allow them tohave their own voice.
And I will tell you this, andthis was a separate blog post,
again, something that stuck withme through the years.
And this one I actually evenremember the name of.
It was called I Knew the PizzaWas His Favorite.
(17:49):
And it was because for years,this kid, this is like, I mean,
this is one of my favorite partsof writing these things because
this was a major moment.
For years, we just gave himfood.
You know, it was dinner time.
Here's what you got chickennuggets, here's what you got,
raviology.
Like whatever we had, just wentto him, he ate it, he dealt
with it.
The second he had a device andhe was able to ask for the foods
(18:10):
that he wanted, we learned whathe liked.
He likes pizza.
He would ask for pizza.
And I remember the first timehe asked for it, and then I gave
it to him, and seeing it on hisface that he got what he
wanted.
That was major.
And I think, like, you know, wewe I stay away from the the
(18:34):
pity party parenting bloggingstuff.
I hate it, I don't like to doit, I don't record meltdowns.
You guys know my whole dealwith that.
But I felt so sad in thatmoment for what could have been
if he never had that device.
This was a kid.
And as we all know, we all haveyou know, if you have kids, we
(18:56):
don't all have kids, but if wehave kids, I have a neurotypical
daughter three years older thanhim.
Kids want what they want.
Kids want certain candies,certain food, certain things,
certain shows, certain toys.
And they ask you all the time,kids can be annoying.
You know, can we go toMcDonald's?
Can we go to McDonald's?
Can we go to McDonald's?
Lucas never did that.
So for the first seven years ofhis life, however long it was,
(19:19):
he just kind of got what he got.
But in his head, there werethings that he wanted.
He's a kid, he wants pizza,wants french fries, he wants
whatever.
And for the first time, he wasnow able to ask for it.
And seeing the joy on his face,seeing now how he knows to ask
for what he wants.
And there's ways to do it too.
And as time goes on and youevolve, you know, we talk about
these gestures and the device orwhatnot.
(19:41):
Like there's other ways we doit.
He'll lead me by the hand, hepushes things away.
He's able to tell me what hewants.
And I will say this since thedevice and since the gestures
and things like that, it'salmost given him more confidence
to be able to tell me what hewants in any way that he can, in
a way where He knows that Iunderstand it.
(20:01):
I never laugh it off, move on,and that's that's so important.
It's all about putting yourselfin the shoes of someone else.
And for my son with no words,it's not always easy.
Because there's a lot of aboutthis kid's world that is not my
world, you know, and there's alot about what he does and how
(20:21):
he goes about things.
To be able to project myselfinto him and see it through his
eyes is not the easiest thing inthe world.
But it is so important becauseit guides what I do as his dad,
it guides where we go in thefuture, and it guides how I help
him interact.
So you don't do anything wrongby teaching them in the way that
(20:43):
they learn.
The whole point is to give himcommunication, and whether those
are official sign languagethings or whether it's just
gestures that we get and otherpeople will get, it's so
important.
And I'm so grateful that I didit that way.
So if you're listening to thisand you're going through it,
don't sweat it.
It's not as uh it's not asconcrete.
Like a lot of a lot of thosethings early on, man, when you
(21:05):
have a kid on the spectrum,there's there's letters and
abbreviations.
Did you get the the CSE meetingfor the ADL and the PPP?
It's like, what are you talkingabout?
And you feel overwhelmed andyou feel like you have to follow
things a certain way.
You don't have to followanything.
You just have to make sure yourkid is understood by, in the
very least, you.
(21:25):
And I guarantee this, right?
I'm telling you, and I don'toffer a lot of guarantees, and I
don't do a lot of catch allnets and things like that.
Especially if you have a kidwho's acting out or who you feel
like is melting down a lot orhaving tantrums.
Have them fully know thatthey're being understood by you,
and you will see a drop inthat.
(21:46):
I promise you.
It happened to us.
Like for a while.
Lucas was never, you know, thisbig fussy kid, but he did have
little meltdowns.
He would get fussy.
And it became clear to me oncewe started this communication
with gestures and things likethat, he's kind of stopped doing
it.
Once he realized that I gothim, you know, even now he'll
ask for a cookie.
I'll be like, go downstairs,I'll give you a cookie soon.
(22:07):
And I do all my pantomime andmy hands, and after you get a
cookie, do all the gestures thatwe do.
I mean, again, my gestures arelike after is like a rainbow
motion.
It's like it's all over theplace.
But he gets it.
And he'll walk away and he'llwhine a little bit and he'll
leave.
But there was a time where hewould throw himself on the
floor, run into me.
Like, doesn't do any of that.
(22:29):
Because he knows that I've gothim.
He knows that I'm listening, heknows that he's being
understood, and he knows thatthe things that he wants are
coming.
It's all about patience.
So good luck to you, man.
If you guys are listening tothis, that's what you do.
If you are a parent and you areteaching your kid this, keep
going.
Whatever works for you worksfor you.
If you're a grandparent, ifyou're a relative and you have
someone in your life who hasautism or somebody, do it too,
(22:52):
man.
You could totally do it.
If you want them to dosomething with you, eat a
cookie, like there's certainmovements like putting your hand
to your mouth, like it's justkind of understood.
That's eating, things likethat.
So work on it.
And you know what?
Ask.
Ask.
If the parents are there, say,how can I show him that I want
to give him this?
How can I show him that this isgood to eat?
And they'll show you some ofthe things that they do.
(23:13):
It's all about communicating.
And it's all about opening thatdoor instead of just sitting
there and being like, Why can'the do it the way I do it?
I don't know.
Why can't you do it the waythey do it?
That's it.
That's a good line to end on,right?
It's good.
Realize all right, good.
So we're gonna end on that,guys.
I appreciate you being hereagain.
Follow me on social media,H-I-James Gutman.
Hi.
Hi, James Gutman.
(23:34):
I'm on TikTok, Instagram,Facebook.
You name it threads.
I'm on threads.
I don't really use threads, butI'm on there.
I'm a blue sky, I think.
Yeah, if it's if it's some sortof worked social media thing,
I'm on it.
Uh so follow me everywhere.
I appreciate it.
I am uh I'm interactive.
I love hearing from you guys.
I love the feedback.
Go to highblogomdad.com.
And also if you're looking tobook a speaker, I am now pushing
(23:56):
it.
2026 is coming up.
I got some things booked.
I'm excited.
I got the speaking page onthere.
A lot of these turn into talksthat we can do live and I can
talk to PCAs or groups orwhatever.
And I love, I don't know, Ilove being able to do that.
I love being able to see thefaces of the people I'm speaking
to.
So thank you.
Uh tell your friends, tell yourneighbors, tell anybody who
listen, and go to highblog I'mdad.com every Monday, every
(24:19):
Wednesday, back here nextFriday.
Until then, this is JamesGutman saying, be well.
I'm daddy, I'm gonna go to thebody.
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