Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hi everyone. This is Carmen and Christina and this is
the Studia's Unknown, a podcast where we talk about Latin
American history. Sometimes it's horrible and deals with heavy topics
like cracism, corruption, and genocide. But more than i it's
also about resistance, power and community. And that's what today
is about, resistance, power and community. Resistance. Oh cool, Yeah,
(00:35):
I'm I'm excited for this episode. So we'll just yeah,
jump right into this. All right. I'm gonna start with
a little little saying here for you. Salvadorans are born fighters.
Have you heard our father say this to us? No?
Has he said it to you? Yeah? Especially after having
(00:57):
my kids. Oh, I'll tell them like one of them
is like fighting the other because one of them took something.
And he's like, well, fighting is in their blood of course.
Oh yeah, okay, so this is like a thing. He
of course is also a fighter, as we know from
his many childhood stories of him fighting or when we
got in fights or I got in fights. For you,
(01:20):
he would say the same thing, and yeah, this is
the thing people say, Salvadorians are fighters. No, no, that
you said, I'm like, oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, And
if you if you look past like the US or
the American perception of the Salvador, where it's like people
are only seen in the context of being refugees of
the Civil War or victims of the gangs, or like now,
(01:44):
you know, trying to survive a dictatorship, which some people
don't view as a dictorship. But right, moving past that someone, Yeah,
moving past that, like when you look at you know,
the history of the country. Yeah, resistance is part of it.
Resistance is in So we have talked about the civil
(02:06):
War the events before it, like La Matanza, but there
are so many periods of resistance that we have not
talked about. But before we get into today's topic, which
is someone named Anastasio Aquino, I have some context. Okay,
So I don't know if we have talked about this
time period yet, but if not, hopefully it's not like
(02:29):
repeaterd information. But again I didn't remember a lot of
this myself. So before the Spanish colonizers, the Pipil had
lived in Couscatlan for over four hundred years, and Custan
is what we know in Sara like as today. That
was Couscatlan, and the Pipil lived in mostly the western
and central part of the country. And they are not
(02:53):
the only indigenous group. Indigenous too in Salavadada. Of course,
there's also the Lenka who are now in Usuli Don,
San Miguel, Morassan and laou Leon. There's also the Kakawira
who are also in Morosan, and then there's also Maya
Chorti who are in the department of Aua Chapan. This
(03:13):
is near Guatemala, Okay. And today the biggest concentration of
Pipil is in sont Ate, especially Nawisalco and Isalco, also
Ajua Chapan, La Liberta, Santa Ana and pan Chi Malco,
which is just outside of San sal Vado. Before colonization,
the Pipil traded as far as Teyoti Wacan, which is
(03:37):
Mexico City today. Hello. Hello, this is Christina from the
Future editing Christina, I'm as spoke here. Teyoti Jacan is
actually forty kilometers northeast of what we call Mexico City today,
so twenty five miles northeast of Mexico City. Okay, back
to the episode, and so yeah, just to say it
(03:58):
was a thriving, you know area. The pp themselves are
said to have come from a split between like one
now we speaking group that was like originally from Mexico
and like made their way down to what is in Sarvalord. Now,
oh I didn't know. Yeah, and part of like like
this happened like years ago before all that. But yeah,
(04:24):
just all this to say it was, you know, it
was thriving until the Spanish came in June of fifteen
twenty four ruined everything. Yeah, from up north. The Spanish
ventured into Central America from Mexico. And this expedition was
led by Pedro de Alvarado, a lieutenant of Ednan Cortes.
(04:46):
He had thousands of Claxcala and Chicuel forces with him.
And of course, like these groups have always been either
living together or fighting and then figuring out how to
live together. That was always a thing. Like before someone says, oh, well,
before they were all fighting, they were eating each other
moments shut up, right, and so and we know like
(05:10):
places that have like quote unquote conquered other places, Well,
then those people have no choice but to join armies
or they make alliances that they don't know what's going
to happen in the future. Of course they didn't, they
didn't expect a colonization, genocide. They were just surviving. They
were just living it. Yeah, because I know people are
always like, oh, well, the Trakskala people helped the they
(05:33):
were the downfall of like the Aztecs too. Like people
will like always like point to the allies that helped
the Spanish. But it's like people were just trying to survive.
So anyway, this initial force that like arrived in June
of fifteen twenty four, they were forced back into Whatatemla
when they met fierce resistance in the Sara and they
(05:56):
can they had to come back with their army two
more times and fifth teen twenty five and fifteen twenty
eight because they kept losing and the Nawai leaders at
La cat and a tonale And I thought you were
going to say something about that battalion. Yeah, I said
(06:17):
it with my face sounds like yeah. Carmen made like
a little frowny face because if anyone remembers the Atlatte
battalion from was responsible. We talked about it the last
episode and they've come up before. But this was the
special forces of the Salvador during the civil War, who
were responsible for killing so many people, so many people
so like what and I don't know if ironic is
(06:38):
the right word, but like this battalion named after at
La cat who was this fierce indigenous peers in finding
back the oppressive forces, they went on to a massacre
the indigenous people and the what oh in the civil
war in the civil war, yeah, which yeah, so what
a what a strange strange thing. Anyway, So some people
(07:02):
say that at Laka and Aal are not real and
that it is only a myth because there is no
contemporary mentions like so, no new like no new writings.
There was no surviving codexes either from like Thesalvador, like
Guatemala has surviving codexes, and so does Mexikoba and does not.
And so the only mentions of at Lakat is in
(07:25):
this book or this collection called the Annals of the Keels,
which is a manuscript written Inchkel, which is Mayan from Guatemala.
And this manuscript describes legends of the people. And so
it's like believed to be myth and legends like the
(07:48):
you've heard the woman. Yeah, but it's at least part
of it is factual because it ends with the factual
account of colonization and so, yeah, Atlacatte could be very
much real because part of this of this manuscript is
one hundred percent real, and it provides an indigenous respective
(08:12):
to the conquest quote unquote conquest, and I don't like
using that same so according to this book. According to legend,
the first time the Spanish arrived in Couscatlan, Pedro de
Alvarado found the city partially abandoned. The people had fled
to the mountains. Pedro de Alvarado sent a message demanding
(08:34):
their surrender, but when he received a reply, it was
the opposite. The message read quote if you want our arms,
you must come get them from the mountains. End quote
come again, a bitch. Basically yeah, and this was this
message was said to be sent by atlacat himself. And
(08:55):
the Spanish tried attacking the people in the mountains, but
they were forced to retreat they could. They kept losing,
but over time, over the years, the Spanish did gain
more and more territory. Within two years of that initial fight,
the Spanish had already set up a base at Santa Vador,
where they continued to fight the pepel and so Diego
(09:17):
de Alvarado was back two years so fifteen twenty six,
and it was during this battle that the majority of
the Nahuat pipele were defeated. But before he could be captured,
at Laca jumped into a volcano and so he was
never captured. He was like, I'd rather die than be
part or be what's called not conquested, because that's not
(09:39):
a word conquered, conquered. Oh my god, Oh my god,
I feel so dumb. And even though their fears leader
at Lacat was gone, the pipe continued to resist for
another fifteen years. Wow, it would be another fifteen years
(09:59):
before they could say the quote unquote conquest was over.
And they did this without guns, without horses and cannons,
all of which the Spanish had. Eventually, the Spanish colonized
Guzgatlan and forever changed the land before I forget to
say Guzgatlan means the land of the jewels in Naguat.
(10:20):
Oh I didn't know that. Oh, well now you do. Cool,
I don't know again the irony because to the Spanish
this would be land that would give them, like they
would take and take from the land and destroy it,
you know. But they got their exports because course Caatlan
became in and that once fertile and diverse land became
(10:42):
a colony of export crops. And like we said way
back in episode one, the first export crop was indigo,
and then after that cacao, and then after that coffee. Yeah,
in the late eighteen hundreds. And it's in this time
period when Anastasio Aquino was alive and led his rebellion.
(11:06):
So we're now in the late eighteen hundred no, no, no, oh, sorry,
when it was indigo. Oh yeah, that wasn't clear, No, okay,
And it was in the time period before coffee that
was alive, Yes, time period, I yess. And so Anastasio
Aquino was born April fifteen, seventeen ninety two in Santiago, Nonalco,
(11:31):
and he was born into a family of titis, or
chiefs among the Nonalco, a tribe of the people nation.
And back then when he was born, and Sara Relodo
was not in San Rolodo yet it was part of
the Federal Republic of Central America. After Mexico's War of
Independence from Spain, and Sara Lodo was briefly part of Mexico,
(11:54):
and a lot happened in Mexico after the War of
Independence and this would need to be an own series
of episodes. But basically, after the War of Independence ended
in eighteen twenty one, from eighteen twenty one to eighteen
twenty three, Agustin de Iturbide was Mexico's emperor. Then he
was dethroned in eighteen twenty three. And when he was
(12:14):
dethroned in eighteen twenty Threejuate, malal Hoduras, Nicaraguay, and Costa
Rica declared independence from Mexico and they became the Federal
Republic of Central America. And this Federal Republic lasted until
eighteen forty. It's not very long. And I mean keeping
these five like the places, five different disease countries with
(12:38):
their own cultures one nation was very difficult from the beginning, Yeah,
very tumultuous from the start. And during this government the
money was so scarce, and to raise money to support
the federation, even more land was taken from the indigenous
of course, because for a long time, even after colonization,
(13:00):
indigenous people were allowed to farm in lands that were
not occupied by aciendas. But it was in this time
period that then aciendas began to began to expand and expand,
and with that expansion forced labor in these aciendas and
mines they continue to grow. It was mostly the indigenous
(13:22):
populations that were forced to do that, forced labor who
were forced to work. Like we talked about in episode one,
the same stuff was happening with indigo before it happened
with coffee. Naturally, this led to uprisings because the people,
of course, they're going to demand rights and to be
treated like people. Yeah, the people are gonna they're gonna
(13:44):
want people to people will resist the people, yes, exactly,
the people will always resist. And so one of these
uprisings was led by Anastasia Jachino. It was late eighteen
thirty two in Santiago Nonualco, and Anastasio was a worker
on an indigo plantation and for some unknown reason, his
(14:08):
brother was arrested by the assenda were owner and this
could be any reason like it could be, and it
probably was something under bullshits like reason, right of course,
And when this happened, when his brother was arrested, Astasio
said it was enough, this was enough, and now it
was time to fight back. And a lot of people
felt the same way when he said this, and the
(14:30):
workers joined him. They began to attack army posts. First,
as it went from place to place, they recruited more
people and then they you know, they were burning assendas
along the way. Okay, And by the end of January
eighteen thirty three he had an army and again this
number is what a difference, but this is the number
(14:51):
I found. But he had an army of two thousand
to five thousand men, oh wow, who were mostly armed
with lances, a spear like weapon with what is it
called a lance? Like you know the lance? Yeah, because
you said like lances, so it was im plural because
they had more than one. I wasn't sure what you
were saying. Oh I see, yeah, lances. Anyway, so they
(15:17):
started in Ascienda in Santiago Nonualco and made their way
along the Comalapa and Limpa rivers, and it was there
where General Juan Josseu's man tried to suppress the uprising,
but he was defeated two times in a row and
then he fled. I guess he's like, I'm not losing anymore,
I'm leaving serves him right, yeah, And this left Colonel
(15:41):
Joaquin the San Martin in charge. So at the time,
at the same time that this was happening that that
other general fled and now the colonel is in charge.
The military was like, no, we're not okay with this,
we want the other guy. The other guy abandoned a
and so then they all abandoned San Salvador. They're like,
(16:03):
we're not fighting without the other guy. Yeah, and then
the colonel, Colonel Joaquin, the San Martin, he had to
run slash high for his life. Wow. Sadly, Anastasio Aquino
was not aware of the chaos in San Salvador that
the Spanish found themselves in, or maybe things would have
turned out differently, so they were somewhere else. This all
(16:28):
happened February fifth, eighteen thirty three, and Anastaso's army was
busy in Sacatecoluca, which is in the department of Lapace,
which is fifty nine point two kilometers away from San Salvador,
which today that's not far, that's like an hour drive,
(16:49):
but back then that was a long journey. So Anastasio
and his army in not knowing that, they could have
doubled back and went straight to San saa Bloa and
like took over. Basically, they went to San Vicente instead,
and so by February fourteenth, they were in San Vicente.
(17:10):
San Vicente welcomed him and the army because they didn't
want to fight. They wanted to avoid the sacking of
the assendas that had been happening. And while Anastasio was like,
let's not sack this city, his army was like, no,
we're sacking the city. We owners. Fuck these fools, this
isn't uprising. Bring them blind, We don't give one thing.
(17:32):
Go fuck yeah, And so they still did it. And
in San Vicente, Anastasio went to the church of Nouestra
Senora del Pilard and took the crown from this little
this statue that they had of Saint Joseph. And then
he put the crown and he proclaimed himself the King
of the Nonalcos. And so then they went to te
(17:54):
pe Titan, another municipality in San Vicente, and there he
he was proclaimed the General Commandant of the Liberation Army.
And after this he then proclaimed the Declaration of the Beetitan.
In this declaration, he ended the payment of taxes to
(18:14):
the government, especially on indigo, which was the main product
of the country. Really, he proclaimed the end of forced labor.
He prohibited collection of debts contracted before the rebellion. He
announced a lot of things, and at this point the
Spanish were trying to reach an agreement with the rebels.
(18:35):
They tried to send two priests to contact Anastasio, but
only one of them was able to even attempt to
get a hold of him, and the rebellion was like, nah,
we're not doing this, not today's Spaniards, not today, Yeah,
not today. Unfortunately, eventually the Spanish government was able to
(18:56):
raise an army to confront the rebels. This army included
many residents of San Vicente who wanted revenge for the
sacking of the city. So maybe if they hadn't sacked it,
they wouldn't have had enough people for their army. We
can only say what ifs speculate. One of the army commanders,
(19:21):
Major Quaya, he wanted an Assassi for himself. He was like,
leave him for me, he's mine, but he was defeated
before he got to do anything. Yeah, so loser. Yes,
According to legend, Anastasio they like saw each other in
the battlefield, you know, and then Anastasio rushed at him
(19:44):
and he yelled, Trinta, Yeah, then throw Santiago referring to basically,
you're surrounded, bitch, Like, that's what that translates to Santiaguenos
referring to like the place occupied by the troops at
the moment of the attack. So yeah, basically he was like,
you're surrounded, you have nowhere to go. You're mine, You're
(20:05):
actually mine, you know your asses and grass. Yeah, as
in the words of a Tina Oh my god, oh
Tina Belcher, I was like, Tina Burger, that's not right.
It's been too long since I've watched bombed burgers, bomb burgers,
I can tell, all right. And things were going really
(20:27):
well for the rebels, but then around the end of February,
they were not doing so good. Their numbers were windling,
not because they were losing to the Spanish in the battlefield,
but because of disease. I was I was going to
guess that, Yeah, I don't know what disease, but it
could have been something from the Spaniards, probably though, of course,
(20:48):
because the Spainers were fine. Yeah. And so the Spanish
took advantage of this and Colonel Juan Jose Lopez and
five thousand men attacked and ended up winning well this battle.
And in this battle, Anastasio was not captured, and the
Spanish began to offer those that they did capture. They
(21:10):
began to offer them that they could stay alive. They
would let them live if they could reveal Anastasia's location,
and so many chose to die oh wow. But one
person took the offer, oh no, And Anastasio was found
on April twenty third, eighteen thirty three. He was then
(21:30):
moved to sak t Go Luca, where he was tried
and condemned to death. They did this by firing squad
in San Vicente. And after they executed him via firing squad, no,
they cut off his head and then displayed it in
iron cage with the label example for rebels, And there
(21:54):
was a quote somewhere I don't remember what source, what
are my mini sources this, but this call was like
a savage ax for the savages. So the savages CURSI.
Oh of course he said that, yeah, of course, I'm
not surprised at all. And then from there they took
this display to Santa and he may have been captured
(22:17):
and killed, but his legacy lived on forever. Lives lives on.
A song began to circulate after the rebellion in all
say in Spanish, first El Indio, Anastasio Aquino, le Mando
de Prado, Kenno Peli rajamas gontral, Pueblo de Santiago, Aquino
(22:38):
di quasi, dan faol Indi opero beni, Damien le Mando
de sikelos Indios mandarian berqueeste pais rade jos como el
Milo Sabilla Aquino, dan fel Indi opero Beni and down
in glaze in englishon in English, and sorry the dan
(22:59):
faol Indio probi. That was a little hard for me,
but here was my best. So the Indian. Anastasio Aquino
was sent to say to Brado that he will never
fight against the people of Santiago. Aquino said it, thus,
so ugly the Indian, but I came, so, Aquino himself said,
(23:23):
so ugly the Indian, but I came. I guess like
he he arrived to fight. I guess I don't. Yeah,
I think so yeah. He also was sent to say
that the Indians would rule because this country was theirs,
as he himself knew. Aquino said it thus so ugly
the Indian, but I came, So yeah, I think I
(23:44):
came to fight you. Yeah, and poets Pedro, Jeffrey Ribaz
and Roque Dalton dedicated so much of their work to
Anastasio Aquino. I've ever read any of Okay, I've read
one poem because the one you shared on here, I
did if so, then I read down if so I
(24:06):
had I know that one. Yeah, in the episode about
the about Elmasote, but not like cause I know. I
think we we played one episode that was like we
did the notes first BOOKY tells and we talked about
Raffina a Maaya. But then I did a second episode
about it where I added way more information than I
was just not as good as researching, I guess, m hm.
(24:28):
So in that second one is where I have the
poem where there's like an update on the trial or
something like that. Uh huh. That's where we read that poem.
And that was by Roque and so yeah, they dedicated
some of the work to Najochino and writer Matile Elepez,
who I was actually looking up her to talk about
her because she is an activist and like one of
(24:51):
the first women something okay, and and I was looking
her up and then I saw she wrote a play
called The Ballad of Nastasio, and then I was like,
who's on and that's how this and that's how we
arrived here at this episode, and so but she wrote that,
and so she is on on the list to be
(25:12):
a topic herself. But yeah, she wrote that play. And
he's still seen as a symbol of rebellion and liberty
by the left. There is a statue of him that
you can see in Santiago Nonalco in La Pace today
and it has some words on it that I actually
forgot to write now, but the plaque says something inspirational
(25:36):
and I think, look like that he led a rebellion,
you know what? Okay, one sec Oh they every anniversary
of his birthday, the town of San Diego No has
this festival called Candles where he's commemorated. Oh nice, Yeah, okay,
(26:00):
it's like his story basically. Oh yeah, this is another
oppost this one on Instagram. Okay, I see. So it
reads Anastasio Martyr, Aquino Rey the Los nonalcos So, king
of the Nonualcos, which he declared himself. If we recall
from the episode Nacio and Santiago No Quintabri, the meal Imaria,
(26:27):
the San Carlos Murio Fusilado, Iluego, Illego, the Capitol, Julio,
the Meal or Jacinto. And then there's a list of
descendants on the plaque. Oh nice, It's crapped by the
flowers so I can't see it, but basically it just
says where he was born, who his parents were, and
that he was the leader of rebellion against you know,
(26:49):
the Spanish. What I find, uh ironic is that there's
these like Salvi pages on Instagram, like Salvi Price, and
they'll post his picture and then a page with the
name forever comments like who would be persecuting him if
it was times No exactly, be back Akino or Anastasio quo.
(27:14):
And I'm like, do you know what this? What he symbolizes?
Please shut the fuck up. Wow? So, yeah, that was
the rebellion of Anastasio A. I love that. Yeah. I
didn't know about him. I feel like I actually have
(27:36):
vaguely heard of him somewhere. I feel like I have
seen his poster maybe, or his poster his statue, so
I recognize bits and pieces. Once you were like talking
about it, Oh, I did not at all. Here's another
side by side of the statue and what he might
have looked like but this is what I'm saying that
(27:56):
like the Dorians like idolze him. Oh look look the same,
look like it does our dad just like him. Yes,
like it's it's crazy anyway. Yeah, those are my notes.
Amazing Again, short episodes were in ketchup mode. So yeah,
(28:18):
just a story of rebellion and resistance and how that
resistance it it lives on. It took a long time,
and yeah, I know it went on because even one
hundred years after Anastatis rebellion, then we have the rebellion
of the indigenous and then the Communist Party it was
happening at the same time, which led to Lama Danza,
(28:41):
but then Lama Danta and the you know, attempted genocide
of the Bill. It wasn't enough two fully, it's never
enough to fully repress the people because then you know,
the civil war happened and now there's still activists, you know,
calling out the book that the regime, and it's like,
I don't know, somewhere, I don't know if it was
(29:02):
like a show or what I was watching, but somewhere
it's at like tyranny is not natural, and it's like
people are always somewhere are always like resistant because it's natural,
and so yeah, this is just like another sign of
that because time and time again the people have resisted
and will continue to So so yeah, that was amazing. Yeah.
(29:26):
Anything to add before we end the episode, I don't
think so, other than I guess if you have been
enjoying the podcast, feel free to give us a reading
or a little review. Recommend us to your friends, your
history loving friends who are okay with a little bit
of yapping and you know, if you're if you'll right
(29:48):
for them, You're right, you're right. Don't send us to
the people who want an audiobook via a podcast. That's
who you want, and listen to an audiobook. We hope
those one lesson Historia Unknown for you. Bye bye. Astoria
Unknown is produced by Carmen and Christina, researched by Carmen
(30:10):
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