November 27, 2025 • 49 mins
There was a song that could get someone killed if they were caught listening to it during the Salvadoran Civil War. In this episode, Cristina tells Carmen about this song.
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The video with the song: https://youtu.be/7wYmv4ZgNa0?si=zO0KlA-RFvVWTixv
Tiktok video mentioned: https://www.tiktok.com/@coradesalvi/video/7232751084203298094?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7461093047661839903
Sources
https://www.elescenariodelosclasicos.com/page.php?id=2291
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%AD_Primera
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%AD_Primera
https://www.radioprogresohn.net/aplicacion-movil/los-guaraguao-en-los-70-anos-de-la-huelga-de-1954/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
If you have topic suggestions, feel free to email Historiasunknownpodcast@gmail.com or use the contact us form on the website https://www.historiasunknown.com/contact/
Want ad free episodes? And weekly bonus episodes? Support Historias Unknown on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/HistoriasUnknownPodcast
By joining, you can help Historias Unknown donate 20% funds to charity. This month's donation went to CLEAN, carwash worker center, an org that has been helping car wash workers who are unable to leave their homes due to increasing ICE raids in LA county, by providing groceries to over 200 car wash workers. Follow @carwasherxs on instagram
Follow on social media:
Instagram: https : //www.instagram.com/historiasunknown/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@historiasunknown
Historias Unknown is on YouTube now!
https://youtube.com/@historiasunknown?si=_rmuVXrSQhs5R1bg
The video with the song: https://youtu.be/7wYmv4ZgNa0?si=zO0KlA-RFvVWTixv
Tiktok video mentioned: https://www.tiktok.com/@coradesalvi/video/7232751084203298094?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7461093047661839903
Sources
https://www.elescenariodelosclasicos.com/page.php?id=2291
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%AD_Primera
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al%C3%AD_Primera
https://www.radioprogresohn.net/aplicacion-movil/los-guaraguao-en-los-70-anos-de-la-huelga-de-1954/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/historias-unknown--6253658/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hi everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estudias Unknown,
a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes
it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like criticism, corruption,
and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,
power and community. And today I guess I think this
falls under resistance. Okay, okay, I love that. Yes, also
(00:38):
this is a shorter episode. We are in catchup modem yep,
still suffering the effects of our vacation. Yes, yeah, the
repercussions are endless, Yeah, but worth it. I think I
think January, you'll expect normal us to be in a
normal schedule. Maybe. I think what I gonna do is
(01:00):
when we need very short episodes, this is gonna be
a little series along running series. Okay. Protest songs, Oh, actually,
that would be fun, exactly exactly. And so today's protest
song gasa de cartoon.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So music transcends borders. And there's so many songs that
have become protest songs, many times the same song representing
struggles all over Latin America. And just a few protest
songs that eventually can be their own episodes, somost mass
Americanos by Los Die, who you can say have several
(01:41):
protest songs now at this point they do. Yes, Actually,
the Grammys just happened, the Latin Grammys, and they performed
was it this song or was it I know they
performed a similar song if it wasn't this one, but
I don't remember what it was. Again, they have a
lot of songs that can be considered protest songs. Also,
(02:02):
the song famously covered by Mana. Yes, also, but they
performed it with the images or videos of people being
detained by ice or peacefully protesting and then being like,
you know, attacked by ice or the police. So yeah, again,
they have a lot of protest songs. Another ONEOS by
(02:25):
Ruben Blades, La Rebellion by Joe Arroyo, Asta See by
Carlos Puebla, or more recent Lokee Hawaii by by Bunny.
And then I mean literally anything and everything by Victor Hara,
who we did an episode on. We did a full
(02:47):
episode on him. I did find this fun little video
on TikTok that had all the songs I just named together.
Let's just press plan that really quick and hold on.
(03:13):
You know why I thought of that? Now when you
said this because I think they covered this, Yes, yeah,
I like they have a cover of this. They did
a concert and in this concert they're saying this together
with the song about Chico Mendez, like back to back.
Basically that was who and the song is about the
force disappearances in Argentina during the dictator dictatorship. Because I
(03:39):
was gonna say war, but the dirty war slash dictatorship. Sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
That other one is just like it's so like a beat,
but it's that one.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That one was.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean, I guess we'll have an episode on it
at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, that will. Each of one of these will have
their own episode. I just but that was Joe uh
and it's a seventeenth century story of an of an enslaver.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
The one I put before that one is a song
about and I think we all know this song, but
if anyone doesn't know, that is a song about gentrification
and displacement in Puerto Rico and basically saying like what
(04:51):
happened in Hawaii can happen here, or I don't want
it to happen here. Mostly happened in Hawaii, and but
the same can be sent for a lot of places
in Latin America. So yeah, those are those songs there,
but there's there's so many protest songs, which is why
this could be. This could come on forever during the
women marches and oh yeah, that's my favorite song. Yeah,
(05:13):
there's a song. I don't know the name. I can't.
I just saw it like a little bit ago, but
I didn't say the video. But that's another example. And
so the song I'm talking about today, it's called Gasa
de Cardon sometimes cho Cardon. And during the Silver Warren
and Salvador, which lasted twelve years from nineteen eighty to
(05:35):
nineteen ninety two, this song Gasa de Cardon was prohibited.
If you were seeing listening to it or singing it,
you could be arrested or like worse, just killed on
the spot. Damn. And I had seen comments here and
there talking about this song and referring to it like that,
and I was like, that's crazy, is that true? So
I called our father, just gonna ask me. Did you
(05:58):
ask her?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Dad?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I did? I did, and I asked him do you
know the song? And he immediately was like, of course
if you sing it during the war, would it would
get you killed? And I was like, are you so
like Carell. Yeah, Like I was like Setio and Setio
like really because I was telling him like I always
heard that that would happen, but I never like actually
(06:21):
asked you, and he was like, oh, yeah, like you
could not sing this anywhere. In fact, you couldn't sing
any songs by Los guaA. Wow, who are the original
singers of this song? That's the first thing he said
that it will get you killed. Then he said most
of the songs would, and then he said, actually, that
song is not by madic Coontonio Salise. So many people
think it's by mad Coontonio Soalise and it's not. And
(06:42):
the original version is so much better. I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah,
they covered it in Los I don't know if it
was made Antonio so Liz by himself or like when
he was part of Los Bougies. Either way, he's singing
it and this was in nineteen seventy five, and he
most people think it's by him because his song became
famous of course, yeah, because he was a more famous,
(07:03):
you know, artist singer. But the original version came out
in nineteen seventy three by Los Guadaguau with Ali Primera
and Ali Primta composed the song and wrote it himself,
but they are both Venezuelan from Venezuela. And before we
get into the histories of the song, why would we
(07:24):
be banned and you know all the places that it
became like a protest song. Let's just tear some of
the lyrics and then I'll translate it into English. Actually
I am hoping to. Yeah, I'll read them in English
and then we'll see if we can listen to the
whole thing. Of course, it sounds better in Spanish. Everything
(07:44):
sounds better than Spanish English. Yeah, And so how sad
you can hear? Not really how sad More, how sad
the rain sounds on cardboard roofs is because this is
how sad you. Oh okay, I didn't realize you were
reading them, and I'm like, what are you saying right now?
(08:05):
Oh my god, no wonder you were like, okay, sorry,
it's because you're gonna start and then Spanish it says
get three says so la yub yeah and lostego. You're
doing this on the spot. You didn't translate it already. Yeah, no, no,
it's translated, but it's not right. So that's what it
says in Spanish, right, you do you remember what I
(08:26):
just read now because I was kind of talking at
the same time, So say that again, you were, so
let me go back. In Spanish it says gets so
la yub yah and Lostego Cardon okay, And then in
English it says, how sad you can hear the rain
on the cardboard roofs? But that's not saying the same thing.
How is it not? Oh my gosh, how are you
not getting this? Okay? Okay, one more time for en
(08:49):
Espanol again, getri oh la yub yah and Lostegio cardon. Okay,
how sad? Comma you can hear the rain on the
cardboard roofs. It's because in English you don't talk like that.
Oh I thought Spanish was saying it sounds sad. There.
(09:12):
I think it's a singer telling well, at least this
is how I'm interpreting it so far. It's the singers
telling themselves how sad. Whether it's that you can hear
the rain see and then in English you can. You
can't say how sad? You have to say I hear
because there's no say oh yeah, like oh you can hear?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I can hear.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I thought I was saying it sounds sad. That's not
how I heard it. So I guess you're actually the
dumb one. Interesting, so maybe I'm wrong. They're saying, yeah,
like how yeah, it's not okay. I thought it sounded
sad on these type of roofs. No, there's they're saying,
(09:57):
how sad you can hear? Like, yeah, that's how I'm
inter bren at least okay, And I okay, And I
thought it said it sounds sad. Let us know what
you think it's saying. Who's right me? I mean probably?
But these are like they chose a lamina like like
not foil. But you know how some houses they would
(10:20):
be considered chancey houses. Yeah that people just put up Yeah,
like this very thin metal metal sheets almost and that's
the roof. Yeah, that's the kind of house that they're
talking about here anyway, So how sad you can hear
the rain on the cardboard roofs? How sad my people
live in cardboard houses. The worker comes down, almost dragging
(10:43):
his feet from the weight of suffering. Look how much
suffering there is, Look how heavy the suffering is Up above?
The pregnant woman is left behind down below is the
city and she gets lost in it's maze. Today is
the same as yesterday. It is a world with out tomorrow.
How sad you can hear the rain on the cardboard roofs?
(11:05):
How sad my people live in cardboard houses? Children the
color of my land, with the same scars, with the
same scars. Millionaires of worms, millionaires of worms.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think the their stomach is like, yeah, yeah, that
makes sense of course. Duh. Sorry, I'm deciphering this with everyone.
I think you should have read it in Spanish first. Well,
we're gonna listen to it. You should have listened to
it first. I thought you had no I have. I've
listened to the song. Oh wa you forgot, and now
(11:40):
you're ready in English and you're like, wait, hold on, okay, yeah, yeah,
that's why the children live so sadly in cardboard houses.
Then it repeats the same chorus, how sad you can
hear the rain, And then it says you won't believe it,
but there are dogs dog schools where they train dogs
not to chew one newspapers, but the boss has been
(12:01):
chewing on the worker for years and years, And then yeah,
repeats the same part and now let's listen to it.
I want to send you the video I found though,
because this isn't the actual music video. And I don't
know where these images come from, but someone posted a
video on YouTube with a bunch of like old old
(12:23):
images from Insane and I just look at them and
I'm like, oh, this this. We could have known what
this was like, but obviously the US ruined all that.
So one, two, three, press the baby.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Lascar saus the garden a handle oberho, p's your restaurant
of the spar sauce boarder Paso the supprid hed a
cameo to a supri here.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Hed a can messa supri.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
H the abaquesta s He's appear, then superag.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Here Oh yes, lolovey smoky again.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's super.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
See uh.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
I that you here behavior Sofrenians, that you be a passa.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Hue do pass supremian to Ueberanza.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
In your scholar VI, dear Corsess, massive countess mel.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
It's instance even lost in yousscas.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
As the garden.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Legs emen los burgos ah exploda, who's the and yes, boy,
that's the bear Rosie. It's not Gasil. I can wear
(15:09):
down those botom I says, start for me went over here.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
H m m hmmm.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
H kah, Christie.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Shure, you know you los gasas the god.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Nichos Barsaa spal song chos the call.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
They give me chills. No. I for some reason, I
felt like crying. I did in some parts too, honestly,
especially when they showed the military and the military the
US embassy and then the military like training or like
I don't know if it's military school or something, but
(16:33):
they were like loperrows a I schools whatever. Like that
part was like, oh, and that's showing them the soles
or military and some of them look like babies. Yeah,
some of them look so young and obviously some of
them were probably kids because some of them were kids. Yeah,
(16:53):
starting at twelve, they were taking kids and forcing them.
And then the kids who didn't who were not forced
into the act Salvadorian Army were then left, you know,
orphaned from death squads. Yeah, the army, and then what
one of the only options was join the military that
(17:15):
killed their parents or joined the fml IN. And so
many did join the fml in because when it would
give them food. But also I mean it's like, why
would they not want revenge on the forces that killed
their parents. It's like these oppressive forces everywhere, right, not
just sl but really any where you look at. Almost
(17:39):
these oppressive forces create the armed resistance that then they
blame for the violence and the conditions that actually the
oppressors caused. Exactly. I came across another video because I
was searching the song on TikTok just to see what
videos came up. And yeah, I came across the video. Actually,
let me send it to you so you can see
(18:00):
you too. But it's a kid, probably eleven, but it's
a video from nineteen eighty four about a little boy
named Nico. Nico became he's twelve, He became an fml
IN combatant. He witnessed the death of his mother at
the hands of the death squad, so the dea squad
was looking for him to also kill him when they
(18:20):
killed his mom, and he was able to hide and
he went and joined the fml IN. And go ahead
and play the video. But the video is using the song.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Okay, he's so little, he has such a baby boys.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, and that's what the caption said, and then he's
saying he went because he wanted to join his friends
both in can be true, can be true? And I
(19:02):
wish I knew. Oh there's a comment I'm gonna cry. Oh, yes,
that's what I was going to say. People are asking
I wonder where he where Nico is today because if
it was twelve, Oh my god, now I'm going to cry. Sorry,
if he was twelve, there's a so somebody's asking, yes,
that I VI would The person who posted the video
(19:22):
said this cement combat messages and Trevista. So he was
killed during a firefight a few months after this. But
so weird because then another comment says, if you are
a snackinglist, so yeah, not it's it's hard to know
what these Yeah, it is. But the truth is that
(19:44):
he could have died. Though if he was twelve at
the time of this video, yeah, he very much could
have died. Many lives were lost, so many and so
many of these kids. That's the guy keeps cominging the
same thing that he died. Yeah, that he didn't even
but he would have been like fifty something today, sixty
something at most, Like, you know, I'm not gonna math.
(20:07):
So yeah, well this was nineteen eighty four and he
was twelve. I'm not gonna do the math either exactly,
it said, not like it's going to do the math. Actually, no,
I'm curious. Let's see twenty twenty five. That was forty
one years ago, yeah, fifty three, okay, yeah, And I
(20:30):
don't know. The worst thing to me is like then
seeing these stories, hearing these songs, and then seeing so
many people still comment like, oh they get a Gyetro's trick,
these poor children. It's like, no, so many of the
kids that joined the FML, and so many of them
were orphaned. Yeah, yeah, what are they supposed to do?
Then they weren't tricked into it? They had no choice
at this point, because again, if you're going to choose
(20:51):
between joining the military or the death squads that left
the orphaned, or the fighting the force is fighting them. Like,
but so many people, again with the BOT side, were wrong.
And yeah, both sides did things, no one is denying that,
but one side did especially worse things that higher numbers.
But yeah, Interestingly, that song that we're talking about right
(21:11):
now is used in the video of this Boy and
I wish I knew what documentary this is this comes from.
I can't find the name.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I wish I knew too.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, so I'll have to search like documentaries about and
hopefully find it. But yeah, just the I'll put the
video version in in the video version of Patron, you'll
see what the video Karmen and I watch. But yeah,
it's just like emotional to see I don't know, yeah,
(21:41):
to see these old these videos, I want to say,
are from like in between nineteen eighty and before nineteen
ninety is when they were filmed. But so back to
the song. The song again not not written by mar Yes,
but written by Ali Primena and saying with los guaA
(22:01):
gas and they are both from Venezuela. So Ali Primera
he again is the composer, but he was a musician, composer,
poet and political activist. And again I don't know the
situation in Venezuela. We're not from Venezuela. We are way
more knowledgeable when it comes to like or even Mexico,
(22:24):
and even then we do not know everything. But when
you look up Ali Primena or the song, there's so
many comments of like, oh, it's too bad that his
song has been like co opted by the communists and
that he wouldn't stand for his song being used. But
the yeah, the reality is that he wrote what he
wrote because he believed it, and that song, the lyrics
(22:47):
of the song are going to resonate with the poor,
the working class always, and who is never going to
be on the other on resonating to these lyrics are
the capitalist the rich people, So the people who think
they're going to be rich one day, but they actually
never will because almost no one ever becomes rich. And
(23:08):
so they support the rich and the capitalism because they
think that's gonna be them one day.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And one of his most well known, well known songs
is called Nueva Cancion or just new song, which is
like most of his songs, about condemning exploitation and repression
and resistance and we'll celebrating not condemned, sorry, celebrating resistance.
And didn't even because I said I set them all
together and then I was like, oh wait, but he yeah,
(23:40):
let me correct myself. He is known now as El
Cantor del Pueblo or the People's Singer. I love that,
which yeah very much, makes it makes sense if it's fitting.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And he was born Rafael Sebastian Primera and wonder wh
Ali came from I guess be a nickname for Raphael.
Maybe his parents were Antonio Primira and Carmine Adela Rossel.
And oh, he was known as Ali because his Arabic
background from his grandparents. His grandparents were Arabic. Oh cool.
(24:16):
And he lived in poverty. So again of course he
was writing lyrics like this. But the reason that his
family fell into poverty really because they weren't at first,
is because his dad died when he was three. Oh,
and that happened so often, especially back then and even
here in the US, right before there was support systems
(24:39):
like social Security and whatever, you know, spousal benefits whatnot. Yeah,
So when he was three, his dad, Antonio died in
a his dad was a prison garden. When he was three,
there was some type of shooting incident in the prison.
Some prisoners tried to escape in ninete tharty five, and
(25:00):
that's when his father died and this shooting incident at
that prison, and so yeah, the mom was left trying
to care for him and his two siblings, and they
basically became like they would travel from town to town
all over Venezuela to try and find work. He eventually,
when he was old enough, he started working like our
jobs to help support the family. Yeah, and he started
(25:23):
doing this at the age of six. I was just
going to get to what age and I was going
to say around that age. Yeah, Well, I mean like
our dad. When when did he say he started working? Eight?
Was young? Young something like that. Yeah, but yeah. One
of his first jobs was a shoe shiner. He was six.
At some point he also boxed, and all the jobs
(25:48):
that he worked didn't discourage him from continuing to go
to school, and so he did. When his family moved
from la Vela to Kara. He then enrolled in the
school Liseo Caracas to complete his education and he graduated
in nineteen sixty four and enrolled at the Central University
(26:10):
of Venezuela to study chemistry.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. And while at the university, he started singing and
composing music. And at first it was just a hobby,
but then it was like that's all he was doing.
And one of the first songs he wrote was called Umanidad,
so he was right away he was always about this, Yes,
right away he was writing these like deep, meaningful songs,
(26:35):
but Umanidad no bass Sad, which both would become protest
songs and in fact were presented at the Festival of
protest songs organized by the University de Loosandez in nineteen
sixty seven. Wow, which I didn't know this type of
festival existed, but very cool. And this propelled him to fame.
(26:59):
And so between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy three
he lived in Europe thanks to a scholarship he received
from the Communist Party ven Isuela. Wow Yes, and he
continued to study in Romania and there he what a
life like can anyway. Once in Europe, he would wash
(27:20):
dishes and sing in places to like earn his living,
and he recorded his first CD called Hendele Mediira in Germany.
Wow Yeah, wild, yeah and yeah right away. His first
songs were about the people, poverty, social inequity, like right
(27:41):
away and yeah. These these type of songs resonated with
the people horns, earning him the name El Canto Pueblo,
and eventually he was able to create his own record
label so he could release music, and it was called Cigarn.
At some point he did a finish his time with
(28:02):
the Communist Youth of Venezuela and then the Communist Party
of Venezuela, and he participated in a new party that
was forming called the movement for socialism, and from nineteen
seventy three until the time he died, he recorded thirteen
different CDs, all in the same vein the same type
of songs. And even though his songs were considered like
(28:27):
the genre would be protest songs, he always called his
type of musicaria necessary songs. I love that, right, and
they are necessary, No, they really are, like he was right,
mm hmm. He met his wife in nineteen seventy seven
(28:47):
and they went on to have five kids, Wow, two
girls and three boys. So the girls Maria Fernanda and
Maria Angila, and then the boys were Sandino, Jorge Serbando, Florentino,
and Juan Simon, and two of them, Florentino, became a
music duo under the name Cevando and Florentino.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And he unfortunately died in a car accident in nineteen
eighty five. And they they say, like they spread rumors
that he was drunk driving, and it's ever been confirmed.
So allegedly allegedly he was drunk driving, but streets are
(29:29):
saying as in like a lot of things I read,
it's not actually that he was drunk driving. The person
that him was a younger person who was drunk driving.
Oh so he was a victim of drunk driving. Possibly, Yeah,
but I think to try and smear his name make
him sound like garbage rather because of I think because
of the type of songs he's saying. Really yeah, then
(29:51):
there's this rumors that spread about him being the one
that was drunk driving. Wow, shameful. Yeah. In Venezuela specifically,
at the time that he was writing this song, there
was a lot of people leaving the rural parts of
(30:13):
Venezuela into the cities to try and find work. Because
the work that there was this abandonment of agriculture due
to oil exploding, and so because they flooded now flooded
the cities with this new like sudden migration of people,
the hills of Caragas became filled with shacks, the so
(30:36):
called shanty houses or and so that's what inspired his
song more, which would then make sense the worker comes
down from the hills. These houses were on the hills
of Caragas. Yeah, the heavy rain caused landslides where the
houses were located, and so sometimes these houses were very
(30:59):
easily toroid. And so when he wrote like the kids
or children, the color of my land. That's what you meant. Like,
while the kids that are like from Venezuela get like
they either like get drowned in these landslides or they're
like living in these horrible conditions, while like these kids
(31:21):
children of Lingos get to live in be rich and
not live in the same same word, Am I looking
for environment? Yeah? Yeah, thank you, same environment as the
children of Venezuela. And he would say about this quote
every day. The song motivates us to make it deeper,
(31:42):
because a man armed with the song and a human
poetry is a man disarmed by envy and by being
a bad man. I don't sing because misery exists, but
because the possibility exists to eradicate it, to wipe it
off the face of earth. Amazing, Yeah, And he would
performance all over Venezuela factories, high schools, union halls, and
(32:07):
Los guan Aguaule. They formed their group in nineteen seventy three.
The name comes from the Indigenous word for hawk or vulture,
which I had no idea. The band was made of
Eduardo Martinez who was the lead guitar, Luis Suadis, who
was also the guitar suscrdleto who was the bass, I
was gonna say bass, and then Jose Manuel Gerra who
(32:30):
was on drums. And the same year that they came together,
they did the song. The song was Ali Primera who
was singing. And that same year they were part of
this group of Venezuelans who went to Mexico for the
Venezuelan Film Festival, and there they stayed for ten months
and they were on a bunch of different TV programs.
(32:51):
They got to perform at the Beas Artist Theater, Oh cool, yes,
Beas Artists, the Maas Artists, the Blankie That Theater, and
also a lot of universities and rural communities.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah. After Ali Primena passed away in the car accident,
they did have a long time of like not performance.
He was yeah, because he's saying you know, and he composed.
But a bunch of their songs are linked or not sorry,
A bunch of leftist movements in Latin America are linked
(33:27):
to their songs. In two thousand and seven, Los Guanaguau
traveled to Salvador to participate in a public proclamation of
Mariza Funess's candidacy for the FMLN so he would become
the future president and again for FMLN and also and
(33:47):
I both had like a lot of corruption issues that
would later come on. That's besides the point where just say.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
At that time he gave people hope and it wasn't known, yeah,
that it would become like that. Yeah, exactly. In two
thousand and eight, they were invited by the Dominican Republican
presidency to participate in an event held by FTL workers
at the Mauricio Bias Club in the capital. I don't
(34:15):
know what FTL is, so yeah, I'm either yeah. In
Onduras in two thousand and nine, they performed a concert
in front of a bunch like thousands and thousands of people,
and this concert was held in support of the National
Popular Resistance Front, a movement that emerged after the military
coup that overthrew President Manuel selayerro Salez. Should this be
(34:40):
another topic we act to our lists? We should Where
was this Onduras? We haven't really talked aboutas Yeah. Yeah,
he was president from two thousand and six to two
thousand and nine. But now I'm wondering what kind of coup?
Was this a bad coup or you know?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, I We're gonna learn at some point from the
town of it.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
They seems like they would support someone more leftist, more
for the people, right, Yeah, that's what it seems. Oh yeah,
it looks like they were social leaning governments. Socialist leaning Yeah,
oh what did I say? Socialists? I'm just trying to
(35:26):
figure out if this became like a dictator situation later
or not.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
We don't know right now.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, you're right, I was just looking through the Wikipedia
of that right now. I wanted to quickly look at
the coup situation, but obviously there's no time for that. Yeah,
that's why he said little it could be its own
episode later. Yeah, it looks like at some point he
went to Venezuela because it says that like escaped like
flood after yeah, after the presidency in March and ten
(35:55):
Venezuelan president, which I was appointed YAH chief coordinator. Interesting anyway, Yeah,
we don't know what we don't know, so I don't know.
It could be bad. We don't know any tacusations or
allegations that happened during Saya's presidency. I don't know, but
I do know that the Juaaguau were invited to perform
(36:18):
at that festival ins and yeah, like uh so many
other songs were banned during the Civil War, not just
Casa but yeah, that was just a little brief brief
history on this song. But the song became like this
song specifically Casa Carton was a protest song, not only
(36:42):
in but also Nicaraguas obviously Venezuela. But yeah, we were
more familiar with it in context to and how it
could literally like it was the song that could get
you killed if you were singing it. And actually, do
you remember much about Cino Sentis? I feel like I remember,
(37:04):
like generally the plotline and what happens, but not in
any specifics. Okay, well, Vosesino sent This came out in
I want to say we had the buleg version of
it first. Yeah, first of all, but this is a
two thousand and four movie. It's a Mexico and Indor production.
When the movie was in production, they were not allowed
(37:26):
to film in really that I didn't know. Yeah, and
they had to film in Mexico because a lot of
the gripe with people about this movie, specifically Sabis is
that it was not filmed inn Sa La lood so.
But the reality is that they weren't allowed to film
in a load from what I've heard. Yeah. Interesting, I
haven't like actually checked that. Okay, Well, where'd you hear this?
(37:50):
Oh oh, I've read it in a bunch of different
like random websites talking about the movie, like reviewing. Oh
I see, so I haven't seen like the official like
oh yeah, we weren't like the director, Like, I haven't
seen that. Okay, but my movie reviewers talking about the
movie have said that. But it came out in two
thousand and four. And the other problem people have with
(38:12):
it is that it didn't have self doriant actors in
it either, and so there's no sidey accents in the movie.
There's no votes for sale in the movie. No way,
I don't remember that. Yeah, and so, wow, that's kind
of crazy that is to not have. Yeah, I mean
I get I don't know. That's yeah. Maybe like budget
(38:33):
that couldn't fly actors out from inside the little thing, right, Yeah,
I don't know. Maybe, Yeah, I guess that could make sense.
That's still wild to me, though, I think that's a
fair criticism. No, I would agree that it is a
fair criticism. Without a single vote in vosail. Yeah, it's
(38:53):
just insane, but it's the whole movie is written by
the director, and it's supposed to be his experience during
the war, and so in that in that sense, it
is very accurate. It follows a was he twelve in
the movie? He was young, but I remember how old.
I don't remember his age, but he was young. It
(39:15):
follows Chava, and if it follows his basically his mom
trying to give him a normal childhood during the Civil war.
But of course this just can't happen. There's no way
to avoid the war that is like literally raging around him.
And I want to say that it Oh, it's an
eleven year old. I just called by the Rotten tomatoes.
Oh my god, it's loading. I was going to just
(39:37):
quickly read the actual synopsis, but it's like not loading.
But that's basically I mean, yeah, yeah, and it's I
want to say that the movie is supposed to be
taking place in San sand Do you remember no?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I literally said, I don't remember anything specific. Oh okay, okay,
I thought you were telling me, and I'm like, what
are you waiting for. I was waiting to see if
you recalled or not anything. But yeah, so it's said
in nineteen eighty six. It follows Chava, whose father fled
to the US at the beginning. I didn't even remember
that his father fled. Honestly, I'm reading the plot right now,
(40:16):
I know, but I'm telling you that I was gonna
I don't remember that either. I actually have been wanting
to rewatch it, but man, I'm not ready emotions.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
It was so traumatized before I would want to rewatch it.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Though.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
We should do it together though. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, it's
said in nineteen eighty six. It follows eleven year old Chavah,
whose father fled to the US at the beginning of
the Civil War when he was five, and so his
family lives in gooskat Dane. Single Okay, got done, Single
and that is a municipality in Santa Lado. Okay. So yeah,
(40:51):
I was semi right, Okay, that's what I remember. It
took place in San Slatdadloa because her dad was like,
oh I recognized this, oh blah blah blah, and that's
where he was from. And yes, that's what I was
gonna say. I recall that had to be right. But yeah,
the movie, we can see like there's these intense firefights
between the South Doran Army and the Gerrilla his mom
(41:13):
makes a living in coosciendo, which is actually what our
dads also did. Uh, seems to stress. Seems stress, thank you.
And he would sell the clothes that she would sew,
and that's also what our dad. That was one of
our dads first jobs. Yeah, yeah, which is just yeah,
he was very soon when we watch this, when we
(41:35):
were what twelve, No, we were older older. I think
we were like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen around there. Yeah that
sounds right, but yeah, that he would watch it and
be like, oh my god, this is like this was
my childhood, which yeah, you're we're watching this fucking depressing
ass movie and we're like, this is your children.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
So yeah, and yeah, he's just trying to live his
life and he's not twelve yet. But starting at eight,
kids are taken to join the military and either I
think the movie depicts as either the Grilla or the army,
and which was true either or yeah, I kind of
I don't know why. I remember in the movie being
(42:18):
depicted more like they were afraid of the military coming
and driving to schools to take the kids. But there
was a scene like that there was maybe that's what
I'm calling them. Yeah, but yeah, that's that's basically what
it's about. But there's two scenes in the movie where
we hear the song cash really yes, what there's like
a firefight beginning and so they're having dinner and then
(42:39):
they like have to duck down to not get hit
by the fire, which was like our dad would say, yeah,
we would be walking, yeah, and like have to like
run for our lives. Basically, has he told you the
story of I think he's because he always like comes
off as you know, oh, I was never scared, blah
blah blah. But he tells us one are you where
(43:00):
he was actually scared for his life and he's all
like I felt like my heart was going to jump
out of my body. And like when he was on
his motorcycle. Yeah, yeah, So he was on his motorcycle
and this woman just was running for her life and
she came running towards him and she was like, let
me on, let me on. He's like okay, like you know,
kind of like what's going on? And then he heard gunshots.
They were shooting at this woman and now at him
(43:24):
because she was on his moorcycle, and they sped away
and he it's like that adrenaline rush and it was
until afterwards, like everything hit him and he like felt
like his body was jello. And I'm like, I can't,
I can't imagine. I can't. I can't either, But yeah,
we would be watching he'd be like, yeah, I used
to like hide in the rooftop so that they wouldn't
(43:45):
come recruit me. And yeah, it's just ugh. But the
two season in that song, one of them, the fire
Right begins they had to like duck for their lives
and the kid Chava is crying because he's scared, and
the it's not the dad. I don't remember who he
is in the movie. Maybe an uncle, maybe like an uncle. Yeah,
we just said the same thing. Yeah, I believe it
(44:07):
was an uncle. He brings out his guitar and he
starts playing the song. I remember, like now that you're
describing it, because I remember like crying this part. Yes,
throughout almost the thing. No, yeah, I don't think there's
a moment where I wasn't crying. Yeah, well, the other
part that it plays is worse, and sorry spoilers if
you haven't seen the movie, of course, although there's still
nothing like watching it. Yeah, yeah, even if we're describing
(44:29):
the two scenes, you hear the song of the movie.
But when he plays a song for the kids so
he calms down during the firefight, the mom tells the
uncle like, stop playing this, like you're gonna get us kill,
that's right, But he keeps doing it because it's going
to calm the kid down. At this time. They don't
hear it because there's like a literal firefight outside. They're
not gonna he gets killed, doesn't he. I don't think so,
(44:50):
oh okay, I don't think anything happens, and that could
be wrong. I don't because I don't remember. Well, what's
the next part? Then that the song? He plays the song?
The next part the song plays, the kid is passing
by with his radio. I want to say the kid
had like a mild obsession with and for those that
don't know, was the radio station put on by the
(45:12):
I was a different station every night. I actually have
a book about I have. It's on my list to read.
It's in Spanish, though, so dantine, very very daunting. But
so he would go on and like find the the
radio and play it. And he has this little radio
he's carrying. He's walking like home with it, and the
(45:34):
song comes ones and the father the local priest. I remember, now, yes,
here's him, and he walks with him, and then the
soldiers of course hear it when he's listened to it,
and the priest ends up taking credit and like he's like,
it's my radio and they I want to say that
the priest is killed, which would I think again was
(45:56):
a very common thing during war.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
But in order to save Chava, he's like sacrificed him.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
That was my song. Yeah, yeah, And I want to
say that the song ends with Chava in the U
or the movie the whole movie ends with Chava in
the US. I think it does, yeah, And like I
don't remember anything else, but I want to say, I
don't know if he goes alone. I need we need
to rewatch this movie. And yeah, we should definitely watch it.
(46:25):
But there is two incidents of the song in the movie.
And we hear in the movie like you cannot play
the song, and I feel like I blocked that out
of my memory. But for some reason, and my for
you page, I was like scrolling and the song. That
scene came up with the kid and the uncle playing
the song, and the comments were full of like, yeah,
(46:45):
you could not play the song? And I was like,
really this song but yeah, I mean it's a song
about people in poverty. I was like, it's so crazy
to me that these people people couldn't even think about
their experiences, their lived experiences, their lives because it was
considered like subversive. Yeah yeah, but yeah that was and
(47:16):
I saw this sem a little disorganized. Omit ten to me.
Thank you, thank you, but yeah, let us know if
we want another song. But yeah, it is a it's
a heavy listen it is, yeah, yeah, and a heavy movie. Yeah.
Anything you want to add before we uh end this. Oh,
(47:37):
I want to give a shout out to our most
recent review on Apple podcast and we find it real quick.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
I'm assuming Jumanji thirty three. That's how you pronounce it.
For the review, I also posted it on her story.
Hopefully you saw it. Shout out and if you have
been enjoying the podcast, Wait, what was the review?
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I don't know. You want me to read it? It
says I love both of you all. I've been binge
listening to your channels for the past two weeks. Now,
please keep going. You're only getting better. Looking forward to
hear more and continue to educate us on our roots.
So oh, thank you, thank you. It means I started
to hear it again. But yeah, have you been joining
(48:23):
the podcast? Feel free to give us a reading or
a review or a review simply I feel like I
say all my words together mumbling. That's called mumbling. Yeah,
anything to not say you mumble. I know, I didn't
think of the word mumbling. Oh I truly didn't recall
that word in my head right now. Yeah, to give
(48:43):
us a reading or a review or recommend us to
a history loving friend, yes, yeah, thank you for your
review and yeah, everything you just said, and other than that,
we hope that this was one less Estoria Unknown for you.
Bye bye. Estorias anknown is produced by Carmen and Christina,
(49:05):
researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can
find sources for every episode at Estoriasunknown dot com and
in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot
of work, so if you want to help us out financially,
you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at
Patreon dot com. Slash studio as an own podcast
Hi everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This is Carmen and Christina and this is Estudias Unknown,
a podcast where we talk about Latin American history. Sometimes
it's horrible and deals with heavy topics like criticism, corruption,
and genocide. But more than that, it's also about resistance,
power and community. And today I guess I think this
falls under resistance. Okay, okay, I love that. Yes, also
(00:38):
this is a shorter episode. We are in catchup modem yep,
still suffering the effects of our vacation. Yes, yeah, the
repercussions are endless, Yeah, but worth it. I think I
think January, you'll expect normal us to be in a
normal schedule. Maybe. I think what I gonna do is
(01:00):
when we need very short episodes, this is gonna be
a little series along running series. Okay. Protest songs, Oh, actually,
that would be fun, exactly exactly. And so today's protest
song gasa de cartoon.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So music transcends borders. And there's so many songs that
have become protest songs, many times the same song representing
struggles all over Latin America. And just a few protest
songs that eventually can be their own episodes, somost mass
Americanos by Los Die, who you can say have several
(01:41):
protest songs now at this point they do. Yes, Actually,
the Grammys just happened, the Latin Grammys, and they performed
was it this song or was it I know they
performed a similar song if it wasn't this one, but
I don't remember what it was. Again, they have a
lot of songs that can be considered protest songs. Also,
(02:02):
the song famously covered by Mana. Yes, also, but they
performed it with the images or videos of people being
detained by ice or peacefully protesting and then being like,
you know, attacked by ice or the police. So yeah, again,
they have a lot of protest songs. Another ONEOS by
(02:25):
Ruben Blades, La Rebellion by Joe Arroyo, Asta See by
Carlos Puebla, or more recent Lokee Hawaii by by Bunny.
And then I mean literally anything and everything by Victor Hara,
who we did an episode on. We did a full
(02:47):
episode on him. I did find this fun little video
on TikTok that had all the songs I just named together.
Let's just press plan that really quick and hold on.
(03:13):
You know why I thought of that? Now when you
said this because I think they covered this, Yes, yeah,
I like they have a cover of this. They did
a concert and in this concert they're saying this together
with the song about Chico Mendez, like back to back.
Basically that was who and the song is about the
force disappearances in Argentina during the dictator dictatorship. Because I
(03:39):
was gonna say war, but the dirty war slash dictatorship. Sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
That other one is just like it's so like a beat,
but it's that one.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That one was.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I mean, I guess we'll have an episode on it
at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, that will. Each of one of these will have
their own episode. I just but that was Joe uh
and it's a seventeenth century story of an of an enslaver.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
The one I put before that one is a song
about and I think we all know this song, but
if anyone doesn't know, that is a song about gentrification
and displacement in Puerto Rico and basically saying like what
(04:51):
happened in Hawaii can happen here, or I don't want
it to happen here. Mostly happened in Hawaii, and but
the same can be sent for a lot of places
in Latin America. So yeah, those are those songs there,
but there's there's so many protest songs, which is why
this could be. This could come on forever during the
women marches and oh yeah, that's my favorite song. Yeah,
(05:13):
there's a song. I don't know the name. I can't.
I just saw it like a little bit ago, but
I didn't say the video. But that's another example. And
so the song I'm talking about today, it's called Gasa
de Cardon sometimes cho Cardon. And during the Silver Warren
and Salvador, which lasted twelve years from nineteen eighty to
(05:35):
nineteen ninety two, this song Gasa de Cardon was prohibited.
If you were seeing listening to it or singing it,
you could be arrested or like worse, just killed on
the spot. Damn. And I had seen comments here and
there talking about this song and referring to it like that,
and I was like, that's crazy, is that true? So
I called our father, just gonna ask me. Did you
(05:58):
ask her?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
Dad?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I did? I did, and I asked him do you
know the song? And he immediately was like, of course
if you sing it during the war, would it would
get you killed? And I was like, are you so
like Carell. Yeah, Like I was like Setio and Setio
like really because I was telling him like I always
heard that that would happen, but I never like actually
(06:21):
asked you, and he was like, oh, yeah, like you
could not sing this anywhere. In fact, you couldn't sing
any songs by Los guaA. Wow, who are the original
singers of this song? That's the first thing he said
that it will get you killed. Then he said most
of the songs would, and then he said, actually, that
song is not by madic Coontonio Salise. So many people
think it's by mad Coontonio Soalise and it's not. And
(06:42):
the original version is so much better. I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah,
they covered it in Los I don't know if it
was made Antonio so Liz by himself or like when
he was part of Los Bougies. Either way, he's singing
it and this was in nineteen seventy five, and he
most people think it's by him because his song became
famous of course, yeah, because he was a more famous,
(07:03):
you know, artist singer. But the original version came out
in nineteen seventy three by Los Guadaguau with Ali Primera
and Ali Primta composed the song and wrote it himself,
but they are both Venezuelan from Venezuela. And before we
get into the histories of the song, why would we
(07:24):
be banned and you know all the places that it
became like a protest song. Let's just tear some of
the lyrics and then I'll translate it into English. Actually
I am hoping to. Yeah, I'll read them in English
and then we'll see if we can listen to the
whole thing. Of course, it sounds better in Spanish. Everything
(07:44):
sounds better than Spanish English. Yeah, And so how sad
you can hear? Not really how sad More, how sad
the rain sounds on cardboard roofs is because this is
how sad you. Oh okay, I didn't realize you were
reading them, and I'm like, what are you saying right now?
(08:05):
Oh my god, no wonder you were like, okay, sorry,
it's because you're gonna start and then Spanish it says
get three says so la yub yeah and lostego. You're
doing this on the spot. You didn't translate it already. Yeah, no, no,
it's translated, but it's not right. So that's what it
says in Spanish, right, you do you remember what I
(08:26):
just read now because I was kind of talking at
the same time, So say that again, you were, so
let me go back. In Spanish it says gets so
la yub yah and Lostego Cardon okay, And then in
English it says, how sad you can hear the rain
on the cardboard roofs? But that's not saying the same thing.
How is it not? Oh my gosh, how are you
not getting this? Okay? Okay, one more time for en
(08:49):
Espanol again, getri oh la yub yah and Lostegio cardon. Okay,
how sad? Comma you can hear the rain on the
cardboard roofs. It's because in English you don't talk like that.
Oh I thought Spanish was saying it sounds sad. There.
(09:12):
I think it's a singer telling well, at least this
is how I'm interpreting it so far. It's the singers
telling themselves how sad. Whether it's that you can hear
the rain see and then in English you can. You
can't say how sad? You have to say I hear
because there's no say oh yeah, like oh you can hear?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I can hear.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I thought I was saying it sounds sad. That's not
how I heard it. So I guess you're actually the
dumb one. Interesting, so maybe I'm wrong. They're saying, yeah,
like how yeah, it's not okay. I thought it sounded
sad on these type of roofs. No, there's they're saying,
(09:57):
how sad you can hear? Like, yeah, that's how I'm
inter bren at least okay, And I okay, And I
thought it said it sounds sad. Let us know what
you think it's saying. Who's right me? I mean probably?
But these are like they chose a lamina like like
not foil. But you know how some houses they would
(10:20):
be considered chancey houses. Yeah that people just put up Yeah,
like this very thin metal metal sheets almost and that's
the roof. Yeah, that's the kind of house that they're
talking about here anyway, So how sad you can hear
the rain on the cardboard roofs? How sad my people
live in cardboard houses. The worker comes down, almost dragging
(10:43):
his feet from the weight of suffering. Look how much
suffering there is, Look how heavy the suffering is Up above?
The pregnant woman is left behind down below is the
city and she gets lost in it's maze. Today is
the same as yesterday. It is a world with out tomorrow.
How sad you can hear the rain on the cardboard roofs?
(11:05):
How sad my people live in cardboard houses? Children the
color of my land, with the same scars, with the
same scars. Millionaires of worms, millionaires of worms.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think the their stomach is like, yeah, yeah, that
makes sense of course. Duh. Sorry, I'm deciphering this with everyone.
I think you should have read it in Spanish first. Well,
we're gonna listen to it. You should have listened to
it first. I thought you had no I have. I've
listened to the song. Oh wa you forgot, and now
(11:40):
you're ready in English and you're like, wait, hold on, okay, yeah, yeah,
that's why the children live so sadly in cardboard houses.
Then it repeats the same chorus, how sad you can
hear the rain, And then it says you won't believe it,
but there are dogs dog schools where they train dogs
not to chew one newspapers, but the boss has been
(12:01):
chewing on the worker for years and years, And then yeah,
repeats the same part and now let's listen to it.
I want to send you the video I found though,
because this isn't the actual music video. And I don't
know where these images come from, but someone posted a
video on YouTube with a bunch of like old old
(12:23):
images from Insane and I just look at them and
I'm like, oh, this this. We could have known what
this was like, but obviously the US ruined all that.
So one, two, three, press the baby.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Lascar saus the garden a handle oberho, p's your restaurant
of the spar sauce boarder Paso the supprid hed a
cameo to a supri here.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Hed a can messa supri.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
H the abaquesta s He's appear, then superag.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Here Oh yes, lolovey smoky again.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's super.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
See uh.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
I that you here behavior Sofrenians, that you be a passa.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Hue do pass supremian to Ueberanza.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
In your scholar VI, dear Corsess, massive countess mel.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
It's instance even lost in yousscas.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
As the garden.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Legs emen los burgos ah exploda, who's the and yes, boy,
that's the bear Rosie. It's not Gasil. I can wear
(15:09):
down those botom I says, start for me went over here.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
H m m hmmm.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
H kah, Christie.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Shure, you know you los gasas the god.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Nichos Barsaa spal song chos the call.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
They give me chills. No. I for some reason, I
felt like crying. I did in some parts too, honestly,
especially when they showed the military and the military the
US embassy and then the military like training or like
I don't know if it's military school or something, but
(16:33):
they were like loperrows a I schools whatever. Like that
part was like, oh, and that's showing them the soles
or military and some of them look like babies. Yeah,
some of them look so young and obviously some of
them were probably kids because some of them were kids. Yeah,
(16:53):
starting at twelve, they were taking kids and forcing them.
And then the kids who didn't who were not forced
into the act Salvadorian Army were then left, you know,
orphaned from death squads. Yeah, the army, and then what
one of the only options was join the military that
(17:15):
killed their parents or joined the fml IN. And so
many did join the fml in because when it would
give them food. But also I mean it's like, why
would they not want revenge on the forces that killed
their parents. It's like these oppressive forces everywhere, right, not
just sl but really any where you look at. Almost
(17:39):
these oppressive forces create the armed resistance that then they
blame for the violence and the conditions that actually the
oppressors caused. Exactly. I came across another video because I
was searching the song on TikTok just to see what
videos came up. And yeah, I came across the video. Actually,
let me send it to you so you can see
(18:00):
you too. But it's a kid, probably eleven, but it's
a video from nineteen eighty four about a little boy
named Nico. Nico became he's twelve, He became an fml
IN combatant. He witnessed the death of his mother at
the hands of the death squad, so the dea squad
was looking for him to also kill him when they
(18:20):
killed his mom, and he was able to hide and
he went and joined the fml IN. And go ahead
and play the video. But the video is using the song.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Okay, he's so little, he has such a baby boys.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, and that's what the caption said, and then he's
saying he went because he wanted to join his friends
both in can be true, can be true? And I
(19:02):
wish I knew. Oh there's a comment I'm gonna cry. Oh, yes,
that's what I was going to say. People are asking
I wonder where he where Nico is today because if
it was twelve, Oh my god, now I'm going to cry. Sorry,
if he was twelve, there's a so somebody's asking, yes,
that I VI would The person who posted the video
(19:22):
said this cement combat messages and Trevista. So he was
killed during a firefight a few months after this. But
so weird because then another comment says, if you are
a snackinglist, so yeah, not it's it's hard to know
what these Yeah, it is. But the truth is that
(19:44):
he could have died. Though if he was twelve at
the time of this video, yeah, he very much could
have died. Many lives were lost, so many and so
many of these kids. That's the guy keeps cominging the
same thing that he died. Yeah, that he didn't even
but he would have been like fifty something today, sixty
something at most, Like, you know, I'm not gonna math.
(20:07):
So yeah, well this was nineteen eighty four and he
was twelve. I'm not gonna do the math either exactly,
it said, not like it's going to do the math. Actually, no,
I'm curious. Let's see twenty twenty five. That was forty
one years ago, yeah, fifty three, okay, yeah, And I
(20:30):
don't know. The worst thing to me is like then
seeing these stories, hearing these songs, and then seeing so
many people still comment like, oh they get a Gyetro's trick,
these poor children. It's like, no, so many of the
kids that joined the FML, and so many of them
were orphaned. Yeah, yeah, what are they supposed to do?
Then they weren't tricked into it? They had no choice
at this point, because again, if you're going to choose
(20:51):
between joining the military or the death squads that left
the orphaned, or the fighting the force is fighting them. Like,
but so many people, again with the BOT side, were wrong.
And yeah, both sides did things, no one is denying that,
but one side did especially worse things that higher numbers.
But yeah, Interestingly, that song that we're talking about right
(21:11):
now is used in the video of this Boy and
I wish I knew what documentary this is this comes from.
I can't find the name.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I wish I knew too.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, so I'll have to search like documentaries about and
hopefully find it. But yeah, just the I'll put the
video version in in the video version of Patron, you'll
see what the video Karmen and I watch. But yeah,
it's just like emotional to see I don't know, yeah,
(21:41):
to see these old these videos, I want to say,
are from like in between nineteen eighty and before nineteen
ninety is when they were filmed. But so back to
the song. The song again not not written by mar Yes,
but written by Ali Primena and saying with los guaA
(22:01):
gas and they are both from Venezuela. So Ali Primera
he again is the composer, but he was a musician, composer,
poet and political activist. And again I don't know the
situation in Venezuela. We're not from Venezuela. We are way
more knowledgeable when it comes to like or even Mexico,
(22:24):
and even then we do not know everything. But when
you look up Ali Primena or the song, there's so
many comments of like, oh, it's too bad that his
song has been like co opted by the communists and
that he wouldn't stand for his song being used. But
the yeah, the reality is that he wrote what he
wrote because he believed it, and that song, the lyrics
(22:47):
of the song are going to resonate with the poor,
the working class always, and who is never going to
be on the other on resonating to these lyrics are
the capitalist the rich people, So the people who think
they're going to be rich one day, but they actually
never will because almost no one ever becomes rich. And
(23:08):
so they support the rich and the capitalism because they
think that's gonna be them one day.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And one of his most well known, well known songs
is called Nueva Cancion or just new song, which is
like most of his songs, about condemning exploitation and repression
and resistance and we'll celebrating not condemned, sorry, celebrating resistance.
And didn't even because I said I set them all
together and then I was like, oh wait, but he yeah,
(23:40):
let me correct myself. He is known now as El
Cantor del Pueblo or the People's Singer. I love that,
which yeah very much, makes it makes sense if it's fitting.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And he was born Rafael Sebastian Primera and wonder wh
Ali came from I guess be a nickname for Raphael.
Maybe his parents were Antonio Primira and Carmine Adela Rossel.
And oh, he was known as Ali because his Arabic
background from his grandparents. His grandparents were Arabic. Oh cool.
(24:16):
And he lived in poverty. So again of course he
was writing lyrics like this. But the reason that his
family fell into poverty really because they weren't at first,
is because his dad died when he was three. Oh,
and that happened so often, especially back then and even
here in the US, right before there was support systems
(24:39):
like social Security and whatever, you know, spousal benefits whatnot. Yeah,
So when he was three, his dad, Antonio died in
a his dad was a prison garden. When he was three,
there was some type of shooting incident in the prison.
Some prisoners tried to escape in ninete tharty five, and
(25:00):
that's when his father died and this shooting incident at
that prison, and so yeah, the mom was left trying
to care for him and his two siblings, and they
basically became like they would travel from town to town
all over Venezuela to try and find work. He eventually,
when he was old enough, he started working like our
jobs to help support the family. Yeah, and he started
(25:23):
doing this at the age of six. I was just
going to get to what age and I was going
to say around that age. Yeah, Well, I mean like
our dad. When when did he say he started working? Eight?
Was young? Young something like that. Yeah, but yeah. One
of his first jobs was a shoe shiner. He was six.
At some point he also boxed, and all the jobs
(25:48):
that he worked didn't discourage him from continuing to go
to school, and so he did. When his family moved
from la Vela to Kara. He then enrolled in the
school Liseo Caracas to complete his education and he graduated
in nineteen sixty four and enrolled at the Central University
(26:10):
of Venezuela to study chemistry.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. And while at the university, he started singing and
composing music. And at first it was just a hobby,
but then it was like that's all he was doing.
And one of the first songs he wrote was called Umanidad,
so he was right away he was always about this, Yes,
right away he was writing these like deep, meaningful songs,
(26:35):
but Umanidad no bass Sad, which both would become protest
songs and in fact were presented at the Festival of
protest songs organized by the University de Loosandez in nineteen
sixty seven. Wow, which I didn't know this type of
festival existed, but very cool. And this propelled him to fame.
(26:59):
And so between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy three
he lived in Europe thanks to a scholarship he received
from the Communist Party ven Isuela. Wow Yes, and he
continued to study in Romania and there he what a
life like can anyway. Once in Europe, he would wash
(27:20):
dishes and sing in places to like earn his living,
and he recorded his first CD called Hendele Mediira in Germany.
Wow Yeah, wild, yeah and yeah right away. His first
songs were about the people, poverty, social inequity, like right
(27:41):
away and yeah. These these type of songs resonated with
the people horns, earning him the name El Canto Pueblo,
and eventually he was able to create his own record
label so he could release music, and it was called Cigarn.
At some point he did a finish his time with
(28:02):
the Communist Youth of Venezuela and then the Communist Party
of Venezuela, and he participated in a new party that
was forming called the movement for socialism, and from nineteen
seventy three until the time he died, he recorded thirteen
different CDs, all in the same vein the same type
of songs. And even though his songs were considered like
(28:27):
the genre would be protest songs, he always called his
type of musicaria necessary songs. I love that, right, and
they are necessary, No, they really are, like he was right,
mm hmm. He met his wife in nineteen seventy seven
(28:47):
and they went on to have five kids, Wow, two
girls and three boys. So the girls Maria Fernanda and
Maria Angila, and then the boys were Sandino, Jorge Serbando, Florentino,
and Juan Simon, and two of them, Florentino, became a
music duo under the name Cevando and Florentino.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And he unfortunately died in a car accident in nineteen
eighty five. And they they say, like they spread rumors
that he was drunk driving, and it's ever been confirmed.
So allegedly allegedly he was drunk driving, but streets are
(29:29):
saying as in like a lot of things I read,
it's not actually that he was drunk driving. The person
that him was a younger person who was drunk driving.
Oh so he was a victim of drunk driving. Possibly, Yeah,
but I think to try and smear his name make
him sound like garbage rather because of I think because
of the type of songs he's saying. Really yeah, then
(29:51):
there's this rumors that spread about him being the one
that was drunk driving. Wow, shameful. Yeah. In Venezuela specifically,
at the time that he was writing this song, there
was a lot of people leaving the rural parts of
(30:13):
Venezuela into the cities to try and find work. Because
the work that there was this abandonment of agriculture due
to oil exploding, and so because they flooded now flooded
the cities with this new like sudden migration of people,
the hills of Caragas became filled with shacks, the so
(30:36):
called shanty houses or and so that's what inspired his
song more, which would then make sense the worker comes
down from the hills. These houses were on the hills
of Caragas. Yeah, the heavy rain caused landslides where the
houses were located, and so sometimes these houses were very
(30:59):
easily toroid. And so when he wrote like the kids
or children, the color of my land. That's what you meant. Like,
while the kids that are like from Venezuela get like
they either like get drowned in these landslides or they're
like living in these horrible conditions, while like these kids
(31:21):
children of Lingos get to live in be rich and
not live in the same same word, Am I looking
for environment? Yeah? Yeah, thank you, same environment as the
children of Venezuela. And he would say about this quote
every day. The song motivates us to make it deeper,
(31:42):
because a man armed with the song and a human
poetry is a man disarmed by envy and by being
a bad man. I don't sing because misery exists, but
because the possibility exists to eradicate it, to wipe it
off the face of earth. Amazing, Yeah, And he would
performance all over Venezuela factories, high schools, union halls, and
(32:07):
Los guan Aguaule. They formed their group in nineteen seventy three.
The name comes from the Indigenous word for hawk or vulture,
which I had no idea. The band was made of
Eduardo Martinez who was the lead guitar, Luis Suadis, who
was also the guitar suscrdleto who was the bass, I
was gonna say bass, and then Jose Manuel Gerra who
(32:30):
was on drums. And the same year that they came together,
they did the song. The song was Ali Primera who
was singing. And that same year they were part of
this group of Venezuelans who went to Mexico for the
Venezuelan Film Festival, and there they stayed for ten months
and they were on a bunch of different TV programs.
(32:51):
They got to perform at the Beas Artist Theater, Oh cool, yes,
Beas Artists, the Maas Artists, the Blankie That Theater, and
also a lot of universities and rural communities.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah. After Ali Primena passed away in the car accident,
they did have a long time of like not performance.
He was yeah, because he's saying you know, and he composed.
But a bunch of their songs are linked or not sorry,
A bunch of leftist movements in Latin America are linked
(33:27):
to their songs. In two thousand and seven, Los Guanaguau
traveled to Salvador to participate in a public proclamation of
Mariza Funess's candidacy for the FMLN so he would become
the future president and again for FMLN and also and
(33:47):
I both had like a lot of corruption issues that
would later come on. That's besides the point where just say.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
At that time he gave people hope and it wasn't known, yeah,
that it would become like that. Yeah, exactly. In two
thousand and eight, they were invited by the Dominican Republican
presidency to participate in an event held by FTL workers
at the Mauricio Bias Club in the capital. I don't
(34:15):
know what FTL is, so yeah, I'm either yeah. In
Onduras in two thousand and nine, they performed a concert
in front of a bunch like thousands and thousands of people,
and this concert was held in support of the National
Popular Resistance Front, a movement that emerged after the military
coup that overthrew President Manuel selayerro Salez. Should this be
(34:40):
another topic we act to our lists? We should Where
was this Onduras? We haven't really talked aboutas Yeah. Yeah,
he was president from two thousand and six to two
thousand and nine. But now I'm wondering what kind of coup?
Was this a bad coup or you know?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, I We're gonna learn at some point from the
town of it.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
They seems like they would support someone more leftist, more
for the people, right, Yeah, that's what it seems. Oh yeah,
it looks like they were social leaning governments. Socialist leaning Yeah,
oh what did I say? Socialists? I'm just trying to
(35:26):
figure out if this became like a dictator situation later
or not.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
We don't know right now.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No, you're right, I was just looking through the Wikipedia
of that right now. I wanted to quickly look at
the coup situation, but obviously there's no time for that. Yeah,
that's why he said little it could be its own
episode later. Yeah, it looks like at some point he
went to Venezuela because it says that like escaped like
flood after yeah, after the presidency in March and ten
(35:55):
Venezuelan president, which I was appointed YAH chief coordinator. Interesting anyway, Yeah,
we don't know what we don't know, so I don't know.
It could be bad. We don't know any tacusations or
allegations that happened during Saya's presidency. I don't know, but
I do know that the Juaaguau were invited to perform
(36:18):
at that festival ins and yeah, like uh so many
other songs were banned during the Civil War, not just
Casa but yeah, that was just a little brief brief
history on this song. But the song became like this
song specifically Casa Carton was a protest song, not only
(36:42):
in but also Nicaraguas obviously Venezuela. But yeah, we were
more familiar with it in context to and how it
could literally like it was the song that could get
you killed if you were singing it. And actually, do
you remember much about Cino Sentis? I feel like I remember,
(37:04):
like generally the plotline and what happens, but not in
any specifics. Okay, well, Vosesino sent This came out in
I want to say we had the buleg version of
it first. Yeah, first of all, but this is a
two thousand and four movie. It's a Mexico and Indor production.
When the movie was in production, they were not allowed
(37:26):
to film in really that I didn't know. Yeah, and
they had to film in Mexico because a lot of
the gripe with people about this movie, specifically Sabis is
that it was not filmed inn Sa La lood so.
But the reality is that they weren't allowed to film
in a load from what I've heard. Yeah. Interesting, I
haven't like actually checked that. Okay, Well, where'd you hear this?
(37:50):
Oh oh, I've read it in a bunch of different
like random websites talking about the movie, like reviewing. Oh
I see, so I haven't seen like the official like
oh yeah, we weren't like the director, Like, I haven't
seen that. Okay, but my movie reviewers talking about the
movie have said that. But it came out in two
thousand and four. And the other problem people have with
(38:12):
it is that it didn't have self doriant actors in
it either, and so there's no sidey accents in the movie.
There's no votes for sale in the movie. No way,
I don't remember that. Yeah, and so, wow, that's kind
of crazy that is to not have. Yeah, I mean
I get I don't know. That's yeah. Maybe like budget
(38:33):
that couldn't fly actors out from inside the little thing, right, Yeah,
I don't know. Maybe, Yeah, I guess that could make sense.
That's still wild to me, though, I think that's a
fair criticism. No, I would agree that it is a
fair criticism. Without a single vote in vosail. Yeah, it's
(38:53):
just insane, but it's the whole movie is written by
the director, and it's supposed to be his experience during
the war, and so in that in that sense, it
is very accurate. It follows a was he twelve in
the movie? He was young, but I remember how old.
I don't remember his age, but he was young. It
(39:15):
follows Chava, and if it follows his basically his mom
trying to give him a normal childhood during the Civil war.
But of course this just can't happen. There's no way
to avoid the war that is like literally raging around him.
And I want to say that it Oh, it's an
eleven year old. I just called by the Rotten tomatoes.
Oh my god, it's loading. I was going to just
(39:37):
quickly read the actual synopsis, but it's like not loading.
But that's basically I mean, yeah, yeah, and it's I
want to say that the movie is supposed to be
taking place in San sand Do you remember no?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I literally said, I don't remember anything specific. Oh okay, okay,
I thought you were telling me, and I'm like, what
are you waiting for. I was waiting to see if
you recalled or not anything. But yeah, so it's said
in nineteen eighty six. It follows Chava, whose father fled
to the US at the beginning. I didn't even remember
that his father fled. Honestly, I'm reading the plot right now,
(40:16):
I know, but I'm telling you that I was gonna
I don't remember that either. I actually have been wanting
to rewatch it, but man, I'm not ready emotions.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
It was so traumatized before I would want to rewatch it.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Though.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
We should do it together though. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, it's
said in nineteen eighty six. It follows eleven year old Chavah,
whose father fled to the US at the beginning of
the Civil War when he was five, and so his
family lives in gooskat Dane. Single Okay, got done, Single
and that is a municipality in Santa Lado. Okay. So yeah,
(40:51):
I was semi right, Okay, that's what I remember. It
took place in San Slatdadloa because her dad was like,
oh I recognized this, oh blah blah blah, and that's
where he was from. And yes, that's what I was
gonna say. I recall that had to be right. But yeah,
the movie, we can see like there's these intense firefights
between the South Doran Army and the Gerrilla his mom
(41:13):
makes a living in coosciendo, which is actually what our
dads also did. Uh, seems to stress. Seems stress, thank you.
And he would sell the clothes that she would sew,
and that's also what our dad. That was one of
our dads first jobs. Yeah, yeah, which is just yeah,
he was very soon when we watch this, when we
(41:35):
were what twelve, No, we were older older. I think
we were like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen around there. Yeah that
sounds right, but yeah, that he would watch it and
be like, oh my god, this is like this was
my childhood, which yeah, you're we're watching this fucking depressing
ass movie and we're like, this is your children.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
So yeah, and yeah, he's just trying to live his
life and he's not twelve yet. But starting at eight,
kids are taken to join the military and either I
think the movie depicts as either the Grilla or the army,
and which was true either or yeah, I kind of
I don't know why. I remember in the movie being
(42:18):
depicted more like they were afraid of the military coming
and driving to schools to take the kids. But there
was a scene like that there was maybe that's what
I'm calling them. Yeah, but yeah, that's that's basically what
it's about. But there's two scenes in the movie where
we hear the song cash really yes, what there's like
a firefight beginning and so they're having dinner and then
(42:39):
they like have to duck down to not get hit
by the fire, which was like our dad would say, yeah,
we would be walking, yeah, and like have to like
run for our lives. Basically, has he told you the
story of I think he's because he always like comes
off as you know, oh, I was never scared, blah
blah blah. But he tells us one are you where
(43:00):
he was actually scared for his life and he's all
like I felt like my heart was going to jump
out of my body. And like when he was on
his motorcycle. Yeah, yeah, So he was on his motorcycle
and this woman just was running for her life and
she came running towards him and she was like, let
me on, let me on. He's like okay, like you know,
kind of like what's going on? And then he heard gunshots.
They were shooting at this woman and now at him
(43:24):
because she was on his moorcycle, and they sped away
and he it's like that adrenaline rush and it was
until afterwards, like everything hit him and he like felt
like his body was jello. And I'm like, I can't,
I can't imagine. I can't. I can't either, But yeah,
we would be watching he'd be like, yeah, I used
to like hide in the rooftop so that they wouldn't
(43:45):
come recruit me. And yeah, it's just ugh. But the
two season in that song, one of them, the fire
Right begins they had to like duck for their lives
and the kid Chava is crying because he's scared, and
the it's not the dad. I don't remember who he
is in the movie. Maybe an uncle, maybe like an uncle. Yeah,
we just said the same thing. Yeah, I believe it
(44:07):
was an uncle. He brings out his guitar and he
starts playing the song. I remember, like now that you're
describing it, because I remember like crying this part. Yes,
throughout almost the thing. No, yeah, I don't think there's
a moment where I wasn't crying. Yeah, well, the other
part that it plays is worse, and sorry spoilers if
you haven't seen the movie, of course, although there's still
nothing like watching it. Yeah, yeah, even if we're describing
(44:29):
the two scenes, you hear the song of the movie.
But when he plays a song for the kids so
he calms down during the firefight, the mom tells the
uncle like, stop playing this, like you're gonna get us kill,
that's right, But he keeps doing it because it's going
to calm the kid down. At this time. They don't
hear it because there's like a literal firefight outside. They're
not gonna he gets killed, doesn't he. I don't think so,
(44:50):
oh okay, I don't think anything happens, and that could
be wrong. I don't because I don't remember. Well, what's
the next part? Then that the song? He plays the song?
The next part the song plays, the kid is passing
by with his radio. I want to say the kid
had like a mild obsession with and for those that
don't know, was the radio station put on by the
(45:12):
I was a different station every night. I actually have
a book about I have. It's on my list to read.
It's in Spanish, though, so dantine, very very daunting. But
so he would go on and like find the the
radio and play it. And he has this little radio
he's carrying. He's walking like home with it, and the
(45:34):
song comes ones and the father the local priest. I remember, now, yes,
here's him, and he walks with him, and then the
soldiers of course hear it when he's listened to it,
and the priest ends up taking credit and like he's like,
it's my radio and they I want to say that
the priest is killed, which would I think again was
(45:56):
a very common thing during war.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
But in order to save Chava, he's like sacrificed him.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
That was my song. Yeah, yeah, And I want to
say that the song ends with Chava in the U
or the movie the whole movie ends with Chava in
the US. I think it does, yeah, And like I
don't remember anything else, but I want to say, I
don't know if he goes alone. I need we need
to rewatch this movie. And yeah, we should definitely watch it.
(46:25):
But there is two incidents of the song in the movie.
And we hear in the movie like you cannot play
the song, and I feel like I blocked that out
of my memory. But for some reason, and my for
you page, I was like scrolling and the song. That
scene came up with the kid and the uncle playing
the song, and the comments were full of like, yeah,
(46:45):
you could not play the song? And I was like,
really this song but yeah, I mean it's a song
about people in poverty. I was like, it's so crazy
to me that these people people couldn't even think about
their experiences, their lived experiences, their lives because it was
considered like subversive. Yeah yeah, but yeah that was and
(47:16):
I saw this sem a little disorganized. Omit ten to me.
Thank you, thank you, but yeah, let us know if
we want another song. But yeah, it is a it's
a heavy listen it is, yeah, yeah, and a heavy movie. Yeah.
Anything you want to add before we uh end this. Oh,
(47:37):
I want to give a shout out to our most
recent review on Apple podcast and we find it real quick.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
I'm assuming Jumanji thirty three. That's how you pronounce it.
For the review, I also posted it on her story.
Hopefully you saw it. Shout out and if you have
been enjoying the podcast, Wait, what was the review?
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I don't know. You want me to read it? It
says I love both of you all. I've been binge
listening to your channels for the past two weeks. Now,
please keep going. You're only getting better. Looking forward to
hear more and continue to educate us on our roots.
So oh, thank you, thank you. It means I started
to hear it again. But yeah, have you been joining
(48:23):
the podcast? Feel free to give us a reading or
a review or a review simply I feel like I
say all my words together mumbling. That's called mumbling. Yeah,
anything to not say you mumble. I know, I didn't
think of the word mumbling. Oh I truly didn't recall
that word in my head right now. Yeah, to give
(48:43):
us a reading or a review or recommend us to
a history loving friend, yes, yeah, thank you for your
review and yeah, everything you just said, and other than that,
we hope that this was one less Estoria Unknown for you.
Bye bye. Estorias anknown is produced by Carmen and Christina,
(49:05):
researched by Carmen and Christina, edited by Christina. You can
find sources for every episode at Estoriasunknown dot com and
in our show notes. Creating the podcast has a lot
of work, so if you want to help us out financially,
you can do so by supporting us on Patreon at
Patreon dot com. Slash studio as an own podcast
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