June 10, 2025 • 58 mins
Ever wonder what really happened behind the scenes of The Wizard of Oz? The yellow brick road was paved with dangerous stunts, toxic makeup, and shocking studio practices that would never be allowed today.
From the moment we pull back the curtain on this 1939 classic, the horrors emerge. Buddy Ebsen, the original Tin Man, was hospitalized after aluminum dust makeup coated his lungs. His replacement wasn't even told why the actor he replaced had left! Margaret Hamilton, our beloved Wicked Witch, suffered severe burns when pyrotechnics ignited too early, leaving her with third-degree burns on her face and hands. The crew's first concern? Removing her toxic green makeup before it poisoned her through open wounds.
Meanwhile, 16-year-old Judy Garland endured what can only be described as studio-sanctioned abuse. Her daily diet consisted of black coffee, cigarettes, and one bowl of chicken soup, supplemented with amphetamines to keep her energetic during filming and barbiturates to force sleep at night. This studio-mandated regimen contributed to her lifelong struggles with addiction.
The film cycled through four different directors, leaving noticeable continuity errors throughout. The famous "Over the Rainbow" song nearly didn't make the cut, saved only when a producer threatened to quit. Even the "snow" that falls on Dorothy and friends in the poppy field was made from chrysotile asbestos – a known carcinogen that actors breathed in while singing and dancing.
Despite all these production nightmares, The Wizard of Oz transformed from a box office disappointment into one of cinema's most treasured films. Listen as we journey through the troubled making of this classic, debunk longstanding myths, and reveal how this magical adventure came with a very real human cost.
Love movie history? Follow us for more behind-the-scenes stories from your favorite films and subscribe to catch our next nostalgic deep dive!
Harmetz, Aljean. The Making of The Wizard of Oz. (Referenced via Vanity Fair and TIME)
Vanity Fair – “The Wizard of Oz: Five Appalling On-Set Stories”vanityfair.comvanityfair.comvanityfair.comvanityfair.com
TIME – “Was The Wizard of Oz Cursed? The Truth Behind the Dark Stories”time.comtime.com
CBS News / Sun-Sentinel – Buddy Ebsen’s Tin Man recollectionsvanityfair.com
American Cinematographer – “Behind the Curtain: Wizard of Oz” (ASC)theasc.comtheasc.com
Columbia News – “Over the Rainbow: Story Behind the Song”news.columbia.edu
SlashFilm – “The Wizard of Oz Almost Premiered Without Its Signature Song”slashfilm.com
Biography.com – “Judy Garland’s Grueling Wizard of Oz Shoot”biography.combiography.com
Refinery29 – “Tragic Story of Judy Garland”refinery29.com
Oz Wiki (Fandom) – “Horse of a Different Color” entryoz.fandom.com
University of Turin study via Vanity Fair – Oz “Most Influential Film”vanityfair.comvanityfair.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh, hey there, hey there.
How are you today, kate?
I'm good, I am Kate and I amBradley.
And we are the History Buffoons.
We sure are, and we are at thepod loft.
I am not putting the paintingbehind me because we have not
secured it yet to the wall, norhave I painted the blue part.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So it's just so many things so if these fall down and
scare me that'd be great.
I'm gonna toss this table incase anyone didn't watch the
video for the last episode, youmissed out Because it was right
away.
You don't even have to watchthe whole video, you just got to
watch like the first 30 seconds.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The picture attacked me.
Full on attack.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Knife wielding like, jumped out and went aye, aye,
aye, aye.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, Life-wielding like, jumped out and went aye,
aye, aye, aye, aye, Okay, sotoday we are going to drink the
Modelo Spiked Aguas.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Frescas.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh, it's Water Fresca .
Aguas, yes, aguas Frescas.
And I have the Flor de Jamaicain perfect Spanish, I'm telling
you Perfect Spanish, I'm tellingyou Perfect Spanish.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You wouldn't even be able to tell that you were born
in Nebraska.
With that, I have the piñaPerfect Spanish.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Piña.
Okay, so mine is hibiscusflavored, yours is pineapple
flavored.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, so, if you didn't know, this is from Mexico
.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Just like avocados.
Yeah, it's a 4.5 um alcohol pervolume.
So you did say it was medello.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So if people don't know.
Medello is from mexico, so yes,you know, but you've tried, so
we've got four flavors actually.
So our backups I, we could talkabout our backups to backstory
is my.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
My mother in law doesn't drink a lot.
She likes to have one here andthere, and so we went over there
for Memorial Day.
And she goes Brad, have youever seen these before?
I'm like I have not.
And I'm like would you like totry them?
And she's like yeah, so shebought them for you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, I ran out bottom oh, she saw a picture of it, or
an ad, okay sorry, I guess Iforgot to say that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So she showed me a picture on her phone.
Have you ever seen these?
I'm like no.
So I ran out to two storesbecause the first one didn't
have it yeah uh, and I shouldhave just went to the second
store.
I knew that from the get-go andbut whatever, uh, so I brought
them back and then I proceededto have six of them, and she had
two okay, so you've had allfour flavors I have, yes, okay
(02:54):
so hibiscus, pineapple, and thenI also have the um pepino y
limon, the cucumber lime, lime,which I'm super excited to try.
I mean, if you want to try thatone, first go ahead.
I was super shocked that Iliked that one because of the
cucumber aspect of it yeah.
Not very cucumber-y at all,thank God.
A little bit on the back endmaybe, yeah, but I also have
(03:17):
sandia.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Show the folks Sandia .
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, do you know what that is in Spanish Sandia?
Yeah, do you know?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
what that is in Spanish Sandia, sandy.
No, I don't Watermelon.
I think sand like oh beach islike playa or something.
What's up playa.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Something like that.
Okay, All right, anyway, what'sup?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
beach Okay so I'm going to try the hibiscus first.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm going to have the piña.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh hello.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Not bad right, so I've had all four.
I kept a flavor of each forthis podcast.
Wow, she's enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So good.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
She's definitely going to get into her second one
soon, so I kept a flavor ofeach from when my mother-in-law
and I tried them, because I knewKate would be excited to try
them as well, and plus herModelo.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So good isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I feel like you should leave this just a flavor
I can.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh, that's's probably gonna be mostly backwash but so
maybe not, maybe we'll justmaybe we'll just go buy some
yeah, maybe we'll just go buysome more, but uh, anyways,
while I'm still trying to tellthis for the third time now, oh,
my word, sorry I laugh until Icough yeah, you do, and you
(04:46):
cough until you laugh um.
Anyway, I don't even know whatthe fuck I was saying anymore
I'm so sorry so I I kept theflavor of each so kate could try
them.
And then we figured we could trythem on one of our episodes, so
I gave her my two favoriteflavors.
I took the two that I thoughtwere they're not bad, they're
just not as good as those two.
(05:06):
So I gave you the two better ofthe four.
But yeah, we'll have to buyanother variety pack.
I think that's all they come inis a variety pack.
We'll have to buy another one.
So we can try that andapparently guzzle that.
Yeah, glug, glug, probablyAlright, let me take a sip.
Finally, oh, you haven't evendone that.
Well, you kept interrupting mystory so I kept trying to finish
it.
What were you saying?
Yeah, refreshing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What was your favorite movie growing up in
middle school, high school,maybe even into college?
Star wars.
I should have known.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I don't know why you asked me that question you know
what my head went to.
No.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Gladiator and I was like, that's why I specified
middle school, high school.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Of course it's Star Wars.
I was 20 when Gladiator cameout.
Which is why I specified yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I would have been 20, because it just celebrated its
25th anniversary a couple weeksago, do you?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
know what my favorite movie is from back then?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Sound of music?
No, but that's such a lovelymovie.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's a good guess.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I love Julie Andrews.
She's one of my favorites.
She is yes.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
What is your favorite Wizard?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
of Oz.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh duh.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
See, I know, it's like I knew that I know and I
knew.
Yeah, that's my bad, that's mybad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Anyway, Cheers to that You're like.
Oh, please do Please.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Cheers.
We're going to talk about theproduction history.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Oh, so are you actually doing this?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh, yeah, do you remember who first suggested
this?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Nope Elle.
Thanks Elle.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Don't have to yell.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Thanks, elle, nope Al , thanks Al don't have to yell
thanks, al less editing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I am doing the backstory of the production of
Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So do we finally find out if there is someone who
hung themselves in the forest?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
oh, I've known this for a long time, but yes, I'll
tell the world that it's fake.
I'll tell the world.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You heard it here probably 12th world.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Do you know what year it was released in?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
1930.
Yes, oh shit, For some reason Ikeep thinking seven.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Close.
But it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's higher, I know, but it's not, I know it's 39.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It is 39.
Good job.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
For some reason my brain kept going to seven.
I'm like that's not right, butI knew it was late thirties, so
yeah 39.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, so obviously one of the most like iconic
films.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh yes, oh yeah, but there were a little bit of chaos
, um of chaos, um behind thescenes there were some a lot of
casting changes, accidents,bizarre studio decisions, just
shoveling pills and coffee down.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Uh, duty garland's throat, basically, um yep but at
the same time, they werebreaking new ground because
color technicolor yeah, not justcolor technicolor technically
was technicolor, um, and likespecial effects were coming up
too, like there was a wholebunch of like advanced right
(08:16):
movie making spectacles and allthis oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I mean, it was a fucking feat of its day it was
what they did, and I don't knowif you go over this.
So I'm sorry, but I keepthinking about this.
I'm sorry if you do go overthis.
Did you know how they did thethe black and white to color?
You do know that is that inyour story?
Probably not okay.
(08:39):
Well then, how?
How do they do it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
let me rearrange my back okay they um so the
transition between the sapiahouse with the sapia dorothy
into the rainbow color of oz.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
They used a double and they painted the whole
inside of the house or thatscene they painted it all in
sepia tones I always thought itwas sepia, but all right, tomato
, tomato or sepia sepia yeah, umyeah, they painted.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
They painted dorothy yeah, a stand-in.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
They painted a stand-in in her sepia tones
stunt double or backup orwhatever they called it back
then.
She didn't really have a stuntdouble to say but yeah wild how
they did that yeah so yeah, um,and it's actually probably one
of the most used films.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
In other films, like, there's lots of homages,
homages, homage, homage.
They itched their me off um wowokay, there's like homage,
homage after homage herzegovinayeah, um jesus, lots of easter
(09:58):
eggs throughout the filmindustry, industry, oh, yeah,
for sure, I mean it's, I meanfirst.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
First of all, we're not in kansas anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, there's no place like home absolutely,
or something about toto or yeahwe're not whatever yeah, yeah so
, um, it's probably I think it'sone of the highest, if not the
highest rated movie with,because of all the homages, like
that movie is well does thatmake sense.
(10:27):
I'm not using my words, right,but I'm just gonna.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Well, you got to think about it too, though.
I mean, it is 86 years old,yeah, so it's been around a long
fucking time.
So it makes sense, and it'ssuch an iconic film, even with
all the shenanigans, that wenton, you know, during production
and so on.
But I mean it's, there's notmany people.
I mean my kids have watched it.
I don't think Vesper remembersit, but Xavier likes it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I mean it's really like a timeless classic movie.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Do you know who my favorite character was?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Cowardly Lion.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Why.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I don't know.
You told me to answer and I did.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That was your first answer.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I know it wasn't right, okay.
No, I don't know who it is.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
The wicked bitch.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
She's my favorite.
Yeah, okay, so first off, yes,dorothy Gale.
Yes, I have my omeprazole now.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Oh, thank God.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So there's not a whole lot of acid reflux, but
there still are burps.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, Bubbles after all.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Bubbles after all, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's the title, sorry.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Okay, so Judy Garland almost wasn't Dorothy.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Gale yeah, I'd actually heard that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Do you know who mgm studios initially considered?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I, I'm drawing a blank shirley temple.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's right she was very, very popular in the 30s.
She was huge in the 30s andthey wanted to like further
capitalize on her popularityright.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I grew up watching shirley temple movies with my
mom I don't think I've seen asingle one there's always one
that I remember that we're likein a mountain pass or something
heidi is that, heidi okay?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I've seen like a remake, but yeah so temple was
actually under contract with20th century fox.
Oh, and negotiations to likeloan her out wasn't a thing like
they're.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Like no, we're not going to give up our star,
because back then they they allhad, like like humphrey bogart
had a contract with such studio,whatever, so like they
basically got to use and abuseyou like well, hey, you're in
this movie, like I'm not doingthat with no, no, you are
because, yeah, you have acontract yeah, so we're using
you in this movie.
It's wild how different it istoday compared back then.
(12:41):
But you know they would signlike a ridiculous amount of
picture deal.
Yeah, and they owned you, yep,so yep.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So, um, also they, they didn't want shirley, so
obviously, like 20th century foxwasn't going to give up shirley
temple.
But they thought that wasprobably a good thing because
they didn't think that shirleytemple had, like, the right
voice to sing somewhere over therainbow.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
She wasn't mature enough to sing that song.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Did she, did she?
I guess I don't recall.
Did she sing, I'm sure?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
she did, yeah, she sang and dance.
Okay, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, andthey're like Judy Garland, who
was 16 at this time.
Right, had a mature singingvoice, right, and a stronger
like emotional range.
Okay, um, and so they went withjudy garland after, like their
test recordings and stuff.
How?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
old was shirley temple.
At this time did you say oh, Ididn't say how old she was.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Judy garland was 16.
I don't recall.
I can look it up real quick, umwell and while you do that, I
can.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I can tell you that this is the second time in three
episodes that we brought upShirley Temple.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We were talking about Shirley Temple to drink in our
conversation episode.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Okay, I remember that .
So, Jeez, louise, you have theweirdest memory I know.
Okay, so Shirley Temple wasborn in 28, 1928.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So she would have only been 11.
Wow, jeez.
Okay, makes sense then.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay, so 16-year-old, wow, geez, okay, makes sense
that.
Okay, so um 16 year old judygarland.
Yeah, she still wasn't quiteyoung enough.
Quote unquote young enough fortheir vision?
Yep, the studio's vision.
So what did they do?
They starved her they bound herbody in corsets um and altered
(14:24):
her face.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Like they gave her like a little like button nose
and stuff.
I don't think that made it intothe film.
I don't think it did, but it'slike come on and then, yes, a
very strict diet of coffee andpills chicken soup one meal a
day.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Was that for the soul ?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Chicken soup, black coffee and cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yep, that was the other thing.
Yeah, yes, because that works.
Pure 16-year-old God wild timesback then.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I have a picture that's going to come up on our
social media, but it's basicallya visual that I created of what
her meals would look likeCoffee and cigarettes for the
morning.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Chicken soup, probably mostly broth I'm sure
with cigarettes for lunch.
Coffee and cigarettes for asnack.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Coffee and cigarettes for dinner that is just wild,
that they could get away withthat even in 19th.
Well, what's 20?
38 when they filmed at, 37 whenthey filmed it, 37 when they
filmed it?
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
She was basically chain smoking 80 cigarettes a
day to keep her appetite down.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That's four packs of cigarettes.
That's insane.
No wonder she died when she waslike, wasn't she in her 40s
Right?
Yeah, 40s right, like 46 orsomething like that, I don't
recall.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I know I'd have to look it up.
I don't have her life memorized, but what?
I know you've watched the movieso mgm also had another casting
shuffle with um ray bulger yeah, because go ahead sorry no,
that's okay because was what wasthe wait?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I'm getting the names mixed up because one of them
was allergic to the paint.
What really?
My tab, but why?
Because I fidget with it you'regonna have to pay your tab now
anyways yes.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
so yeah, they had ray bulger, yes, playing the tin
man right, and buddy ebsen, yes,who was the original?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's the name I couldn't remember.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Original Hillbillies Beverly Hillbillies guy.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I can't remember his name.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Clampett, jed Clampett.
Yes, that's right, good job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, so Buddy Epson was going to be the Scarecrow.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And Bolger, which is like this, really lanky, almost
like a robbery looking dancer,and that's kind of.
That's kind of what he wasknown for Right, desperately
wanted the scarecrow role.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
It was like, basically, taylor made for him
and he persuaded the studio toswitch their parts.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So Epson became Tin man.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then he became not Tin man because he was
allergic to the.
What is it?
Was it a paint?
Wasn't it like a lead-basedpaint or some stupid shit?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
like that.
I will get to that in a moment.
Okay, but initially their rolesswapped okay.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow, you just flipped me off when you did that.
You're welcome, the WickedWitch.
Yeah're welcome, the WickedWitch yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Margaret Hamilton.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Is the Wicked Witch.
However, it started first withOscar winning actress Gail
Sondergaard.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Not familiar with her works.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
She was mostly in the 20s and the 30s.
She actually worked up into the80s, um, I believe.
But um, she was in the moviebabes in toyland.
Oh yeah, or maybe that was raybulger, I don't remember anyways
, but there, no, no, sorry, raybulger was in babes of toyland
yeah, that makes sense um gail,um soddenbark guard.
(17:59):
So, son sondergaard, thank you,as if you said you're welcome,
you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Any who's.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
She was in more.
It looked like more foreignfilms.
Oh, okay that came out in theus, if that makes any sense.
I mean they were like foreignfilms, but they were anyway, it
doesn't matter, it reallydoesn't so they arrange
originally had her as the wickedwitch and she was like a
glamorous, pretty witch okay um,and they're like let's scrap
(18:34):
this idea.
We need a little bit of ascarier interpretation.
So sodden guard was like thatain't me, so I'm gonna bow out
peace, I'm out yep.
And then margaret hamilton fullyembraced that green skin with
the crooked, hooked nose andwarts and stuff and she effing
(18:55):
delivered right yeah, especiallywhen she got burned we will
also get to that.
I figured as much.
Then the film's directionchanged hands multiple times
okay so we start with richardthorpe.
He was the very first director.
Okay, he shot for two weeks ohwow, in 1938, before the
(19:17):
producer halted production dueto terrible results.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
They just weren't happy, so they just did not like
what he was coming out with, orwhatnot.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, Thorpe had put Garland in a blonde wig and
heavy makeup for a young girl.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Wasn't that more true to the book though?
Like wasn't she actually blondein the book?
I don't believe so.
Maybe I'm thinking of somethingdifferent.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't believe so.
I'm thinking of somethingdifferent.
I don't believe so, but she wasa young girl.
I would say she was probablyshirley temple's age in the book
like 11 or so.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I do recall that I guess I didn't know it was the
first director put her, tried todress her up to make her look
younger as well, with the wigand everything.
I knew that, but I guess Ididn't know it was a different
director, okay they had four,four total shit.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I never knew that, but I guess I didn't know it was
a different director.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, they had four, four total shit, I never knew
that so the second one, georgekuker.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
He is uncredited okay um.
He spent a few days refiningthe film's look okay he ditched
the blonde wig, toned downgarland's makeup to more of a
natural look right and then rehelped recast tin man after
ebsen's departure, which we willtalk about yeah thirdly, um
(20:26):
victor fleming.
Okay, he, he took over over themajority of the filming and
he's kind of the one credited asthe director.
The director um, but he kind ofinstilled order on the
production.
Fleming would leave just beforecompletion because he was
(20:46):
offered to direct Gone with theWind with Vivien Leigh.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Which was also MGM, which makes sense.
Then, final director King Vidor.
King Vidor, he stepped in tofinish the remaining scenes,
notably the black and whitescenes, the Kansas scenes at the
beginning, including the Overthe Rainbow song, gotcha.
It took four directors to getDorothy to the Emerald City.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I never knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, that's awesome yeah but because of all these
changes, it resulted incontinuity issues.
Right, dorothy's hair lengthchanges throughout the entire
movie and I will insert apicture here.
Okay, there's a short, there'sa medium and there's a long.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
It's funny, though, cause likeI've seen that movie countless
times throughout my life andwithout knowing that, like
actually knowing it, I wouldhave never guessed oh, it's no,
I I did know about it, so Ithink it's noticeable, but I
knew about it but you know aboutit.
So if you're looking for it,you're gonna like oh yeah, it is
longer, which I get, yeah, butme as a you know about it.
(21:59):
So if you're looking for it,you're going to be like, oh yeah
, it is longer which I get.
Yeah, but me as a you know eightyear old kid watching wizard of
Oz, because when I was a kid Icouldn't just pull it up on some
streaming service.
You had to wait for it to be onTV, and usually on and like the
fall Thanksgiving.
Oh, oh yeah.
(22:21):
I watched it every year aroundthat time.
I remember sitting in this oneparticular blue recliner we had
at our house and it was stormyday out or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Snow sounds lovely it was great.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And then just watched , watched a wizard of oz and I
would have never guessed thatbecause I was a fucking kid
right so anyways so thelegendary over the rainbow
Rainbow song almost didn't makeit into the film.
Did you know that I did?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
not know that.
They felt that the balladslowed down the pacing and
worried that kids would kind ofget bored of the Kansas scenes
because the big selling pointwas this Technicolor Oz, of
course, of course.
So associate producer ArthurFreed was so appalled that he
issued an ultimatum to studiochief Louis B Mayor yeah, the
(23:08):
song stays or I go.
Wow, mayor relented and hefamously famously said, quote
let the boys have the damn song,put it back in the picture, it
can't hurt.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It was like one of the biggest parts of the movie
because it was such a catchytune.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It won the Academy Award for Best Original Song.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Just think if they would have never put that in
there.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Do you have how many total Oscars they won Two, it
was only two.
It was only two.
It was only two.
What was the other one then?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't recall, but it wasn't like actor, actress,
supporting or anything like that, yeah no, I want to say it was
like production or somethinglike that that's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I was just curious.
I guess I never really fullylooked at what they all, what
they all won.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So okay, you finished your beer the same time I
finished my beer, which nevereffing happens because you're
you're sucking that thing downokay, so now I'm gonna try the
cucumber lime let me know whatyou think of that.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Which one are you trying?
This is the sandia, yeah, solet me know what you think of
yours, because I think you'regonna like that one too I gotta
smell it.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Oh hell, yes, told you.
That's why I wanted to give youthose two, because I knew you
were gonna like both of I.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Gotta smell it.
Oh, hell yes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Told you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's why I wanted to give you those two, because I
knew you were going to likeboth of those.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Chefs Piss.
Oh my God, that is so good.
I love the cucumber, I cantaste the cucumber.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But it's not like I can taste the lime.
It's not aggressive.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's not overwhelming .
Yeah, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So we're talking about the wizard of oz um, it's
a movie.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's a movie, okay.
So there was also the deletedjitterbug number.
Have you heard of the jitterbug?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I mean, I know of the jitterbug, but not from this
movie, nope so it was like alarge-scale swing dance really
sequence.
Yeah, that would not haveworked.
They called it the jitterbug.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It was featuring dorothy and her friends and they
were like dancing freneticallyin the haunted forest which the
wicked witch sends a magicalinsect to make them dance
uncontrollably wow, it's likethat one dance dancing plague
yeah yeah, where was thatholland?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I don't recall I brought it up once, I don't
remember.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, but they cut um the number because it was the
timing and the tone, it justdidn't work, did not?
That would not have worked inthat movie so no, like real
footage of the sequence hasreally survived I was gonna ask
if there was any there's like agif oh that is kind of going
(25:46):
around, but that's not really,and and the quality of the image
is very, very poor.
I'm sure it's awful but in themovie there still remains a
dialogue of the witch that says,quote I sent a little insect on
a head to take the fight out ofthem.
Sorry, let me reach for, let medo that again.
(26:07):
I sent a little insect on ahead to take the fight out of
them.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And see, I can't recall that I don't recall that
line at all, me either.
Do you know when I don't?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
okay, no, because, because, but I'm going to watch
it now.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I think we should watch that, since we're doing an
episode on it.
I don't recall that line at all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I don't either.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Okay, we'll have to watch it and look out for it,
okay.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So Wizard of Oz sometimes felt a little perilous
, yeah, a little perilous.
Yeah, the the reproductiongained a reputation of kind of a
curse, like reputation of theinjuries and the ordeals that
happened on the set.
Sure, okay, some of them were alittle shocking, a little
(26:53):
horrifying, a little traumaticyep so tin man's toxic makeup.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
You had mentioned that so do you have what the
actual makeup was, that was hewas allergic to?
Okay, or was he allergic?
Or was it just because they useit again on the next guy?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
it.
So, yes, I will, I will addressboth, okay, okay.
So buddy epson, the originaltin man, yeah, and I will insert
a picture.
Yes, he so.
He had a silvery face that wasachieved with aluminum dust yes
so no one realized that havingan actor inhale aluminum dust
(27:32):
all day, yeah, was potentiallyharmful.
Yeah, nine days of filming isall it took and he was like he
was in excruciating pain.
Yeah, he was struggling tobreathe.
He was rushed to the hospital.
He had essentially beenpoisoned by aluminum dust.
It coated his lungs.
(27:53):
Yeah, so he spent weeksrecovering in an oxygen tent.
Wow, while the studio wasimpatient, said we're gonna
replace, we're gonna replace youso how much?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
do you know how much of his scenes were filmed before
they replaced him?
Because I mean nine days,that's especially back.
Then they probably filmed adecent amount I think so.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Some of I saw a picture of him in a kansas scene
, but but usually the kansasscenes were done at the very end
, as per the director's stuffthat I wrote, so I'm not really
sure.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Um how long?
But because I mean nine daysback.
Then they were like that couldhave been like a movie I mean
honestly, because they werepretty like oh, let's you gotta
pump this shit out so we canmake our money, yeah, so I
wonder, I wonder how much wasactually filmed with him.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Interesting so jack haley yeah is the new tin man
with safer makeup.
Of course they mix the aluminumpowder into a paste, because
that makes it safer without.
So it's not loose powder thathe's inhaling.
I mean, it's still there though, so Haley developed a severe
(29:07):
eye infection from it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh well, that's not surprising.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, to add insult to injury, mgm didn't tell Haley
the real reason Epson fell ill.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That is sheisty.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So he was unaware of this like potential hazard.
Right in the end, buddy ebsen'svocals can actually still be um
heard in some of the ensemblesongs.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh really so they didn't cut them out of there.
Yep, they just had.
Uh, hayley just went lip syncthen, or wow, that's wild now
burt lauer yes or lar yeahl-a-h-r lar hr do you recall
which one he might be?
He's um.
(29:52):
Oh my god, what is he?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
the lion he's the lion, yeah, I was getting.
It's been a bit minutes sinceI've watched this too I'm I'm
throwing names at you left andright, here too and I know them.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm not gonna say really well, I'm fairly well,
but yeah, okay, I was mixingthem up there.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So yeah, he's the lion yes, a bro, ray ray bulger.
Yes, scarecrow, yesaley Tin manBulger's the one I know the
best.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right For whatever reason, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And then Bert Lahr.
Yeah, is the Cowardly Lion.
Yes, his costume a real fuckinglion, isn't that wild.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I actually have heard that before.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
It weighed 90 pounds.
Oh my God, how could you With acomplete lion mane?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
how could you, with a complete lion mane?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
so did they just like hey, uh, they didn't kill the
lion from the mgm, like, andthen they replace it with
bertlar, yeah, they should have.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
That would be great oh my god side note on that
animal abuse is not funny it'snot, it sucks uh.
Have you ever seen the actualfilming of that?
Yes, the lion, roar andeverything I think so yeah yeah,
it's actually pretty funnybecause he's got, they got him
like standing on like a, like abench or something, yeah,
whatever and then doing thisthing and capturing it.
(31:21):
It was pretty, pretty wildbecause it's a fucking lion you
could eat me.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Okay, so there's no lightweight faux fur alternative
for 38.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Nope.
So under these blazingtechnicolor lights, they were
notoriously hot.
Blazing technicolor lights yeah, they were notoriously hot.
Lar would sweat heavily rightinside this suit.
The heat on set was so extremethat even actors in normal
costumes were fainting jesus andgetting carried off of set
(31:54):
could you imagine what thatwould do for me?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
you would I think you would bow out, I would
literally die, or if I didn'tquit, yeah, so yeah, that would
do for me.
You would, I think you wouldbow out, I would literally die.
Or if I didn't quit, yeah, soyeah, that would.
Uh, no, that would, that wouldnot be fun for me, yeah lar was
drenched each day.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
At the end of the day he was drenched.
The crew had to dry out thelion's costume in an industrial
size drying bin every singlenight to prevent mildew and a
smell yeah, oh, lord that poorlion I know, but like it must
have worked because he doesn'tlook sweaty, but it's all nice
(32:34):
and fluffy and yeah, it getswashed every night well, well,
yeah, I suppose, so the costume,Sweat and All.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Auctioned in 2014 for $3 million.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Holy shit, really $3 million for a sweaty, used lion
skin suit.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
By Burt Lahr.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
What's his other famous movie?
And so, anyways, I don't know Idon't either.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I I know he's been in other things, but I couldn't
tell you.
You know who he could easilylike just walk on the set and do
a great job.
What the carol burnett show.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I could easily see him just picking up and just
being one of the comedic actorson her show I could definitely
see that, for sure, yeah, Ithink it's because his facial
features are very in hismannerisms.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah yeah, just big and bold and they're great, for
sure okay, margaret hamilton,yes, the witch she probably had
the most traumatic injury on setthe burning during the
Munchkinland scene.
At the beginning the witchexits, Tries to In a fiery flash
(33:47):
of smoke.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a hell of a special effect.
Oh great, yeah, If I'm notmistaken, they actually used the
shot that burned her in themovie.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I've heard that.
I did not confirm that, but Ihave heard that.
I don't know if it's correcteither, but yeah, but Hamilton
was supposed burned her in themovie.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I've heard that.
I did not confirm that, but Ihave heard.
I have heard that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I don't know if it's correct either, but yeah but
hamilton was supposed to dropthrough a hidden trap door.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yes, before the pyrotechnics went off but that
didn't work out that way thespecial effects crew were a
second too soon on the thefireball and she caught fire
yeah I'm gonna insert a pictureof the scene, not her isn't it?
And it's really too bad too,because they couldn't throw
(34:27):
water on her because she'd melt.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Sorry drink more.
Okay, would you please cheersto me.
Her hat and her broom caughtfire and she suffered third
degree burns on her face andhand.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So how far into filming was this Do you?
Did you come across that?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I did not come across timing.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Because could you have met?
So let's pretend, and it couldbe the truth too.
I have no idea.
Hey, you just got burned.
Sorry about that.
We're going to paint your burnsgreen now.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, fuck.
Yeah, yeah, they actually didwait for her to recuperate okay
so her chin, her nose and herforehead were scalded.
Right her right eyebrow andeyelashes were singed off.
Her upper lip and eyelid wereseverely burned wow.
And when she looked down at herhand, the skin was gone.
(35:20):
It burned her skin rightthrough her hand, wow.
So to make it worse, the team'sfirst priority.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, to quickly remove her copper based green
makeup before it seeped into heropen wounds, which would have
like poisoned her bloodstream.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, she would have fucking died.
Yeah, wow, while she's in thismakeup, in this green makeup,
she literally cannot eat on setfor fear of that green king
accidentally ingesting.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Wow, yeah good thing, uh, things have gotten better.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Holy shit, yeah, that would suck, so the studio did
not send her home no, they'relike hey, we need you a friend
had to drive her to safety comeon.
But the mgm execs phoned herevery day well, that's nice of
them asking when you asking whenwill you be?
(36:20):
Back.
When can you come back?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I've actually heard that it took her six weeks to
recuperate so were they able toget other things done in the six
weeks of her absence, becauseobviously she's not in any scene
I would assume, but I can'tconfirm that I would assume it's
gotta be because b-roll,whatever.
(36:45):
Yeah, well, I mean she's not inevery scene, so there's plenty
of stuff to film without her.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So when she comes back, she's a single mother.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
She chooses not to sue the studio for fear that she
would be blacklisted that'sfucking terrible so when she did
return, her hands were stilltoo raw for makeup, so she wore
gloved green gloves in some ofthe scenes oh and I'm not sure
if they were picked up on camera, but I am for sure gonna look
(37:17):
all right, so we have to lookfor that one line and green
gloves okay, the bug line andthe green gloves yeah, okay,
yeah, I'm on board for this sothen yeah, a stunt woman yes you
would think that the studiowould learn their lesson, but
they planned another fierybroomstick scene.
Hamilton was like I'm out theyhad to get the shot, kate they,
(37:42):
they brought in a stunt doubleright.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Her name is betty danko betty danko, I also have a
picture of her all right anddanko mounted an explosive
rigged broom for a scene inwhich the which would was flying
skyward into the, into thesmoke oh gotcha so during the
take the pipe attached, thebroomstick exploded.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Oh fuck, again because of timing I feel like
they need a new special effectsdepartment jesus fuck danko was
thrown off, suffering severeinjuries.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
She said later quote I felt as though my scalp was
coming off.
End quote, and she was knockedunconscious so what were all of
her injuries?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
did you see that I did?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
not go into detail with this um, but no need to get
graphic no, not for this, notfor this podcast.
No, we don't do graphic here.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
We just do sad.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
She spent 11 days in the hospital and she has
permanent scars and damaged legmuscles.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
So her compensation.
She earned $35 for this stunt.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
So what's that today?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I didn't look, that wasn't part of my research.
Moving on, yes, please.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
The scene the poppy field oh, with the asbestos
fucking genius, move there, theydecided that snowflakes made of
chris, chris, chrisotile,chrisotile, chrisotile.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Asbestos okay, a material known to cause
mesothelioma lung cancer andasbestosis asbestosis
inflammation okay, at the time,asbestos was actually widely
used in films because films andbuildings and construction
(39:53):
everywhere it looked like fluffy, clean snow right, it was
non-flammable.
Plus, it was a major plus onthese like new technicolor sets
as well, right and it stayedvisible on camera longer than
real snow or cotton or likeother methods do you know how
they did the snow?
and it's a wonderful life soap Ithink you've told me that I
(40:15):
have.
So there were no masks, nowarnings, just open mouths and
wide eyes and people singing,and they inhaled this
carcinogenic snowflake, like itwas christmas morning asbestos
was also used in christmas treeflocking and fake fireplace
(40:36):
ashes during the 1930s through1950s that's wild.
I mean, they didn't know no, sosome fake snow was used in the
movie holiday in the movie whitechristmas um.
Asbestos wasn't officiallybanned in the us in consumer
products until the 1980s wow,not until then.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I mean, I know it's been banned for a while, like I
remember.
So where I grew up there was wehad the elementary school and
the high school or like kind ofnear each other, and then down
the road was the big old biddleschool.
It was a big old building.
It was great.
Um, I actually did summerschool classes in there.
They shut it all down exceptfor the gym.
We used to have liketournaments, basketball
(41:18):
tournaments, whatever in therebecause of all the asbestos in
it.
And then they uh tore it down.
And now there's now it's alibrary with an observatory cool
, that's kind of neat never beenit, okay, yeah the munchkins?
yeah, there were over a hundredof them didn't the last one just
die like a few years?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
back?
Yes, I believe so, not thatlong.
Yeah, I would say within thelast 10.
Just die like a few years back.
Yes, I believe so, not thatlong ago.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I would say within the last 10 years.
Oh yeah, Something like that,but yeah.
I think it was the last one, ifI'm not mistaken.
I think so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So these munchkins, these people that they called
munchkins on the film?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Well, I mean it's not derogatory.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
They were brought over from Europe's dwarf
vaudeville circuit.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
And they were boisterous.
Yes, to put it simply.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
They were rambunctious.
They were drunken parties,rambunctious behaviors.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, because I mean they weren't kids, they were
adults.
They were adults, so I meanDecades later.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yes, Judy Garland's ex-husband Sid weren't kids,
they were adults.
They were adults, so I meandecades later.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Judy Garland's ex-husband Sid Luft.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Claimed that the Munchkins were constantly drunk
and, quote put their hands underJudy's dress, end quote.
But there's nothing to say thatthat was actually true.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So, but he wasn't around when she was 16.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
So I mean, it would have had to come from her.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But he wasn't around when she was 16.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So I mean it would have had to come from her, if it
came from anyone, but there'sno evidence, right?
So excuse me.
Garland herself joked in a 1967interview that the munchkins
quote had a very good time andthat their drinking was the only
trouble on the oz set.
So she called it annoying buthardly traumatic.
(43:03):
Yeah, yeah so she was.
She was mostly badgered from thestudio producers rather than
the the munchkins, right, yeah,yeah, so they did the munchkins.
I keep saying the munchkins,but the people who play the
munchkins did notoriously earnvery low wages.
Didn't some of them not earnanything at all?
(43:23):
Kind of thing well, my sourcesays 50 a week okay but um even
toto, the dog earned more I waswas just going to tell you.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
did you know that Toto earned more than that?
Yes, Toto was in a couplemovies.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, so Toto, yeah, he wasn't even safe on set.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
No, people were trying to eat him.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Toto is actually a girl.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
And her name is Terry .
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yes, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
She was stepped on by one of the witch's palace
guards during the filming.
The dog suffered a sprainedsome sources say broken foot and
had to rest for about two weeks.
Jesus and a dog stand-in filledin some of the scenes until
Terry returned to work.
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Total salary was $125 per week.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Isn't that wild for a dog?
And then these humans got paid50.
But apparently terry's agentsdid her right because she was in
about 22 films yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
That's how many I knew she was in a bunch of them.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
She was only credited for those out of those 22 in
three movies, Wizard of Oz beingone of them.
Otherwise, everything else isuncredited.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Right, which?
Why would they give a credit toa dog?
Yeah, Back then.
You know, today they woulddefinitely do that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
So Judy Garland basically would have been abused
.
What we would call abused no,it's not.
Basically she was flat outabused yes here, judy, here's
your coffee and your cigarettesyeah, so she had that one meal a
day um chicken soup, blackcoffee, cigarettes, plus
amphetamines to or pep pills toboost her energy and then
(45:14):
barbiturates to force sleep yepgarland, who was 16, worked
grueling hours and was often sojittery from the drugs that the
crew literally had to hold herstill that's wild, yeah, it's
just.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
It's yeah, not basically there was literal
child abuse.
Yes, from these people that arelike oh, we're good, are you,
though, I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
There's one scene where Dorothy slaps the cowardly
lion.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
But Garland kept like cracking up because she's a
teenager and it was funny to herfor some reason, and she just
kept cracking up.
So Victor Fleming, the thirddirector, slaps judy garland.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
oh, does she stop laughing?
He said quote now darling, thisis serious, go in there and
work end quote okay, I mean he'snot wrong in the work part, but
he's 100 wrong in the work part, but he's 100% wrong in the
slapping part.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Garland was slapped into composure.
Oh man and the next take wasperfect.
Wow, imagine that Fleminginstantly felt remorse.
But Judy forgave him on thespot, kissed his nose and
reassured him, and later shepraised Fleming as a wonderful
man with kind eyes.
(46:33):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Okay, I mean, that makes up for it all.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
But of course, after all this she had a lifetime
struggle with diet pills, mentalhealth drugs alcohol, the whole
gambit.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
unfortunately, when you're fed this shit
consistently for however longthey were filmed.
When you're 16 years old,you're, when you're fed the shit
consistently for however longthey were filmed.
Yeah, when you're 16 years oldyou're impressionable youth.
Things are gonna stick,unfortunately, in a bad way.
So I mean it's just really sadthat that movie ruined the rest
of her life and she had a goodcareer for a while.
(47:10):
She she was alive.
She did other things.
What's the actor?
She was always in movies withthe Mickey.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Rooney, mickey Rooney , yeah, mickey.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Rooney.
So she, you know she did abunch of movies, but like yeah,
I want to say she was like 46.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
She was young when she died.
I'll look it up after this.
Yeah, that's fine, okay.
Okay, after this.
Yeah, that's fine, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
so no discussion of oz lore is complete without yes
the munchkin suicide so is thatthe one who supposedly hung
themselves in the forest?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
yes, okay for decades yes rumors persisted that a
small figure seen in the distantbackground of the scene where
dorothy and scarecrow areskipping down the road is a
munchkin actor's body hangingfrom a scene, right From a tree.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
And I'm going to insert a picture here as well.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I hope so Actually it's a far away picture, but I'd
like to correct you.
I will be putting the picturein.
You are going to be supplyingthem to me.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
So this is entirely false.
Yes, it is.
There is no hanging person.
It's actually a large exoticbird yeah that is spreading its
wings.
So they added these birds totry to like, give a more vibrant
feel to the forest, and you cansee these birds like throughout
the forest scenes.
This one was just so far awaythat it looks like something is
(48:35):
hanging from a tree.
Yeah, I don't know if I've everactually noticed it every time
I have looked for it and I waslike, yep, there it is.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
But yep, that's a bird all right when we watch it,
to look for those two otherthings.
You have to point it out like.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
These are big birds.
They're right, yeah, right,right, yeah, but far away.
Yeah, I think they're probablyabout as tall as these munchkins
someone probably thought, hey,did you know what I heard?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
and again it is word of mouth, snowballed, snowballed
from there and it's like, yeah,I heard from so-and-so and then
just whatever, it was just amyth that grew and stuck over
time, basically this conspiracydidn't like really gain traction
until the 50th anniversaryaround 1989, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
But it was debunked by these film historians, of
course.
Yeah, but between the facemelting makeup, the dog stomping
and then enough asbestos tolike insulate a Home Depot.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
There really is no place like home.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Hey, I see what you did there.
So who wrote the Wizard of Oz?
Frank L Baum.
I knew you were going to get itwrong.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
L Frank Baum.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
God damn it.
Most people do that.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Because of the L.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, because it makes sense to have that in the
middle Cause.
Who starts their name with aninitial rather than their full
name?
Um, and didn't you and I?
We actually looked up a whileback.
You probably not remember this,cause, you're you?
But um, the red brick road wasadded to the movie.
It's not actually in the book.
Am I remembering that right?
(50:14):
Yes, I believe so.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I think, yeah, I don't think it was in the book,
and then it leads to nowhereyeah, because everyone's always
like where does it go it?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
literally leads to nowhere.
Why couldn't they just takethat home?
Speaker 1 (50:23):
okay, so judy garland was born in 22, 1922 and she
died in 1969.
So what is that math 47?
Yeah, okay so close was she 47,her birthday's coming up so
when did she die?
Speaker 2 (50:37):
and she was born june 10th 1922 yes died june 22nd so
she just turned 47, you werereally close yeah, I was damn
that's.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
That's crazy job, all right yeah I knew it was.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
I knew it was right around there, so yeah, not too
shabby good job.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Thank you um so, yeah , that is my favorite movie and
I am gonna force you to watch ityou're not gonna force me,
because I love that movie tooand then wicked um that might,
we might have issues on, but umI it's not such a good job with
it.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
But they ruined the book just like the musical did.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I know you're really into the Wicked Book and it's a
very good book.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
It's such a good book .
Speaker 1 (51:19):
But they wanted to tie it a little bit more into
the Wizard of Oz movie.
But it's not.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And the Wizard of.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Oz book is not the Wizard of Oz movie.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Oh, not at all.
I am so mad.
I took you there once, which,unfortunately, that bookstore is
gone now, the one you remember,when I took you to that
bookstore up at Genesee.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
The really overwhelming one.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, because there's just shit just everywhere and
you don't know where you'rereally looking.
One time I went in there theyhad the old Wizard of Oz books
and I'm like.
I should have fucking boughtthem.
I mean, they had like I don'tknow six to 10 of them I don't
remember how many, I don'tremember the price off, but it
would have been a decent chunkof change.
But fuck, I wish I would havebought those.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, I wonder what they did with all the books then
.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Well, they sold stuff on eBay too, closed up shop and
, and, um, maybe just kept it tothat or something, I have no
idea, but they had so much justlike it's like why would you try
and resell this yeah?
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Okay, real quick, before we like finish up here
and talk about our, ourbeverages.
What is your favorite scene inlizard of Oz?
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Oh man, um, I always really liked when they first all
like the cowardly lion,especially when they first went
to go meet the wizard and how hejust wanted to bail, kind of
thing, and even like someonepulled my tail yeah, that was
you.
(52:52):
But even like the song, like ifI were king or whatever, he's
great, I love that, like I'msorry, everybody, but yes,
that's, that's what I wastalking about.
So, so that whole number, like,even, like, even again, if you
(53:14):
encompass this whole section ofthe movie, when they first knock
on the door, the dude with thegiant mustache, and then you see
all the multicolored horses,which are all different horses,
and you can see that they'redifferent horses because they're
literally not the same horsebut painted different colors and
then the whole King of theForest song, like, leading up to
when they first meet the wizard.
Um, yeah, like someone pulledmy tail or whatever.
(53:38):
Um, I think if I had to pickone off top of my head, I really
enjoy that.
So what's yours?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
mine would be the horse of a different color yeah
do you know what they paintedthe horses with?
Speaker 2 (53:48):
kool-aid jello.
Yeah, yes, that's the word Icouldn't remember what it was.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Yes, jell-o, and they're like quick, hurry up and
shoot them before they startlicking it off.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yes, that's right.
That's right, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And I always thought the Tin Man's heart at the very
end, the string that it was onwas full of popcorn.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, but it's.
I mean, it's a classic movieagain.
What did I say?
60 or 80 sorry, 86 years it'sbeen out.
That's wild.
When was it actually released?
During the year, did you seethat date?
I don't remember off the top ofmy head.
So, but yeah, it's hard tobelieve.
I've been watching it.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Although it did terribly in theaters.
It wasn't until color TV cameout that they started putting it
on TV, and people were amazed,they were amazed, and that's how
the popularity came.
And that's why they keptputting it on TV.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Right, it's funny.
Even today, though, thathappens with movies like so it's
funny to hear that it did thenbecause like office space didn't
do that great in the theater.
It's a fucking cult classicmovie it's a great fucking movie
too or, you know, insert otherone, even shawshank redemption.
Yep, that was a great movie,which you actually have pictures
on your wall anyways, it's aninside joke that's been going on
(55:12):
for a while.
Um, you know, that movie forall intents and purposes did
terrible in the theater, butit's a phenomenal fucking movie
um but I also did remember.
I don't remember the movies thatcame out.
I think it was like two otherhuge movies came out the same
weekend that shawshank did andkind of fucked their chances.
(55:33):
I'm trying to blank on whatthose two are, but doesn't
matter anyways.
Um, yeah, so okay, how did youlike your beverages?
Speaker 1 (55:40):
I liked both very much.
I don't think I can pick afavorite okay, that's, and
that's fine the hibiscus or thecucumber lime.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I love them both and I want more okay, well, maybe
we'll, uh, we'll get some moreand then you can try these two,
because again, they're good.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
I just thought those two are the better of the four
and you and I have differenttastes, so maybe I'll like them.
Yeah, you might like them, youdo but I was right, though.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
You actually rather enjoyed those, and thank you
very much for not throwing thesecond tab on the floor that was
very nice of you.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
I fidgeted that one off too I heard.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
I heard it rattle on the can, so I'll have to go find
the other one somewhere on thefloor.
Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, damn right, you will.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
But um, anyways, no, I I thought you would like those
.
I was.
It was fun sampling with mymother-in-law because you know I
don't get to see her a ton justbecause of scheduling and stuff
.
So it was nice that she wantedto have a couple beverages with
me.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah, and I tasted them.
I'm like, ooh, kate's going tolike these, so let's do it for
the podcast.
And yeah, I thought you wouldlike those.
I think you'll like these two.
I just those are the two betterout of the four, anyways, yeah.
So thank you for the Wizard ofOz.
Yes, you're welcome.
That's very great, and I'llhave to let Al know that.
(56:53):
Hey, we finally did it.
Do you remember when yousuggested that?
Speaker 1 (56:56):
I think it was really early on.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
I think it was actually very early on that he
suggested that he was like youknow what would be kind of cool,
all the weird shit thathappened around the Wizard of Oz
.
I'm like that sounds awesomeand I remember telling you, yeah
, and then it just kind ofstewed there for a bit, but it's
nice to finally get it out.
Yep, well, I suppose.
All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
Oh, hey there, hey there.
How are you today, kate?
I'm good, I am Kate and I amBradley.
And we are the History Buffoons.
We sure are, and we are at thepod loft.
I am not putting the paintingbehind me because we have not
secured it yet to the wall, norhave I painted the blue part.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So it's just so many things so if these fall down and
scare me that'd be great.
I'm gonna toss this table incase anyone didn't watch the
video for the last episode, youmissed out Because it was right
away.
You don't even have to watchthe whole video, you just got to
watch like the first 30 seconds.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
The picture attacked me.
Full on attack.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Knife wielding like, jumped out and went aye, aye,
aye, aye.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, Life-wielding like, jumped out and went aye,
aye, aye, aye, aye, Okay, sotoday we are going to drink the
Modelo Spiked Aguas.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Frescas.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh, it's Water Fresca .
Aguas, yes, aguas Frescas.
And I have the Flor de Jamaicain perfect Spanish, I'm telling
you Perfect Spanish, I'm tellingyou Perfect Spanish.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You wouldn't even be able to tell that you were born
in Nebraska.
With that, I have the piñaPerfect Spanish.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Piña.
Okay, so mine is hibiscusflavored, yours is pineapple
flavored.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Okay, so, if you didn't know, this is from Mexico
.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Just like avocados.
Yeah, it's a 4.5 um alcohol pervolume.
So you did say it was medello.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So if people don't know.
Medello is from mexico, so yes,you know, but you've tried, so
we've got four flavors actually.
So our backups I, we could talkabout our backups to backstory
is my.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
My mother in law doesn't drink a lot.
She likes to have one here andthere, and so we went over there
for Memorial Day.
And she goes Brad, have youever seen these before?
I'm like I have not.
And I'm like would you like totry them?
And she's like yeah, so shebought them for you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, I ran out bottom oh, she saw a picture of it, or
an ad, okay sorry, I guess Iforgot to say that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So she showed me a picture on her phone.
Have you ever seen these?
I'm like no.
So I ran out to two storesbecause the first one didn't
have it yeah uh, and I shouldhave just went to the second
store.
I knew that from the get-go andbut whatever, uh, so I brought
them back and then I proceededto have six of them, and she had
two okay, so you've had allfour flavors I have, yes, okay
(02:54):
so hibiscus, pineapple, and thenI also have the um pepino y
limon, the cucumber lime, lime,which I'm super excited to try.
I mean, if you want to try thatone, first go ahead.
I was super shocked that Iliked that one because of the
cucumber aspect of it yeah.
Not very cucumber-y at all,thank God.
A little bit on the back endmaybe, yeah, but I also have
(03:17):
sandia.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Show the folks Sandia .
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, do you know what that is in Spanish Sandia?
Yeah, do you know?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
what that is in Spanish Sandia, sandy.
No, I don't Watermelon.
I think sand like oh beach islike playa or something.
What's up playa.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Something like that.
Okay, All right, anyway, what'sup?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
beach Okay so I'm going to try the hibiscus first.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm going to have the piña.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Oh hello.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Not bad right, so I've had all four.
I kept a flavor of each forthis podcast.
Wow, she's enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So good.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
She's definitely going to get into her second one
soon, so I kept a flavor ofeach from when my mother-in-law
and I tried them, because I knewKate would be excited to try
them as well, and plus herModelo.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So good isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I feel like you should leave this just a flavor
I can.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh, that's's probably gonna be mostly backwash but so
maybe not, maybe we'll justmaybe we'll just go buy some
yeah, maybe we'll just go buysome more, but uh, anyways,
while I'm still trying to tellthis for the third time now, oh,
my word, sorry I laugh until Icough yeah, you do, and you
(04:46):
cough until you laugh um.
Anyway, I don't even know whatthe fuck I was saying anymore
I'm so sorry so I I kept theflavor of each so kate could try
them.
And then we figured we could trythem on one of our episodes, so
I gave her my two favoriteflavors.
I took the two that I thoughtwere they're not bad, they're
just not as good as those two.
(05:06):
So I gave you the two better ofthe four.
But yeah, we'll have to buyanother variety pack.
I think that's all they come inis a variety pack.
We'll have to buy another one.
So we can try that andapparently guzzle that.
Yeah, glug, glug, probablyAlright, let me take a sip.
Finally, oh, you haven't evendone that.
Well, you kept interrupting mystory so I kept trying to finish
it.
What were you saying?
Yeah, refreshing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What was your favorite movie growing up in
middle school, high school,maybe even into college?
Star wars.
I should have known.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I don't know why you asked me that question you know
what my head went to.
No.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Gladiator and I was like, that's why I specified
middle school, high school.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Of course it's Star Wars.
I was 20 when Gladiator cameout.
Which is why I specified yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I would have been 20, because it just celebrated its
25th anniversary a couple weeksago, do you?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
know what my favorite movie is from back then?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Sound of music?
No, but that's such a lovelymovie.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That's a good guess.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I love Julie Andrews.
She's one of my favorites.
She is yes.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
What is your favorite Wizard?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
of Oz.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh duh.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
See, I know, it's like I knew that I know and I
knew.
Yeah, that's my bad, that's mybad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Anyway, Cheers to that You're like.
Oh, please do Please.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Cheers.
We're going to talk about theproduction history.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Oh, so are you actually doing this?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh, yeah, do you remember who first suggested
this?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Nope Elle.
Thanks Elle.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Don't have to yell.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Thanks, elle, nope Al , thanks Al don't have to yell
thanks, al less editing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I am doing the backstory of the production of
Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So do we finally find out if there is someone who
hung themselves in the forest?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
oh, I've known this for a long time, but yes, I'll
tell the world that it's fake.
I'll tell the world.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You heard it here probably 12th world.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Do you know what year it was released in?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
1930.
Yes, oh shit, For some reason Ikeep thinking seven.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Close.
But it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's higher, I know, but it's not, I know it's 39.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It is 39.
Good job.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
For some reason my brain kept going to seven.
I'm like that's not right, butI knew it was late thirties, so
yeah 39.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, so obviously one of the most like iconic
films.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh yes, oh yeah, but there were a little bit of chaos
, um of chaos, um behind thescenes there were some a lot of
casting changes, accidents,bizarre studio decisions, just
shoveling pills and coffee down.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Uh, duty garland's throat, basically, um yep but at
the same time, they werebreaking new ground because
color technicolor yeah, not justcolor technicolor technically
was technicolor, um, and likespecial effects were coming up
too, like there was a wholebunch of like advanced right
(08:16):
movie making spectacles and allthis oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I mean, it was a fucking feat of its day it was
what they did, and I don't knowif you go over this.
So I'm sorry, but I keepthinking about this.
I'm sorry if you do go overthis.
Did you know how they did thethe black and white to color?
You do know that is that inyour story?
Probably not okay.
(08:39):
Well then, how?
How do they do it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
let me rearrange my back okay they um so the
transition between the sapiahouse with the sapia dorothy
into the rainbow color of oz.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
They used a double and they painted the whole
inside of the house or thatscene they painted it all in
sepia tones I always thought itwas sepia, but all right, tomato
, tomato or sepia sepia yeah, umyeah, they painted.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
They painted dorothy yeah, a stand-in.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
They painted a stand-in in her sepia tones
stunt double or backup orwhatever they called it back
then.
She didn't really have a stuntdouble to say but yeah wild how
they did that yeah so yeah, um,and it's actually probably one
of the most used films.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
In other films, like, there's lots of homages,
homages, homage, homage.
They itched their me off um wowokay, there's like homage,
homage after homage herzegovinayeah, um jesus, lots of easter
(09:58):
eggs throughout the filmindustry, industry, oh, yeah,
for sure, I mean it's, I meanfirst.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
First of all, we're not in kansas anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, there's no place like home absolutely,
or something about toto or yeahwe're not whatever yeah, yeah so
, um, it's probably I think it'sone of the highest, if not the
highest rated movie with,because of all the homages, like
that movie is well does thatmake sense.
(10:27):
I'm not using my words, right,but I'm just gonna.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Well, you got to think about it too, though.
I mean, it is 86 years old,yeah, so it's been around a long
fucking time.
So it makes sense, and it'ssuch an iconic film, even with
all the shenanigans, that wenton, you know, during production
and so on.
But I mean it's, there's notmany people.
I mean my kids have watched it.
I don't think Vesper remembersit, but Xavier likes it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I mean it's really like a timeless classic movie.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Do you know who my favorite character was?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Cowardly Lion.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Why.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I don't know.
You told me to answer and I did.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That was your first answer.
Yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I know it wasn't right, okay.
No, I don't know who it is.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
The wicked bitch.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
She's my favorite.
Yeah, okay, so first off, yes,dorothy Gale.
Yes, I have my omeprazole now.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Oh, thank God.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So there's not a whole lot of acid reflux, but
there still are burps.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, Bubbles after all.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Bubbles after all, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's the title, sorry.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Okay, so Judy Garland almost wasn't Dorothy.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Gale yeah, I'd actually heard that.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Do you know who mgm studios initially considered?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I, I'm drawing a blank shirley temple.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
That's right she was very, very popular in the 30s.
She was huge in the 30s andthey wanted to like further
capitalize on her popularityright.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I grew up watching shirley temple movies with my
mom I don't think I've seen asingle one there's always one
that I remember that we're likein a mountain pass or something
heidi is that, heidi okay?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I've seen like a remake, but yeah so temple was
actually under contract with20th century fox.
Oh, and negotiations to likeloan her out wasn't a thing like
they're.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Like no, we're not going to give up our star,
because back then they they allhad, like like humphrey bogart
had a contract with such studio,whatever, so like they
basically got to use and abuseyou like well, hey, you're in
this movie, like I'm not doingthat with no, no, you are
because, yeah, you have acontract yeah, so we're using
you in this movie.
It's wild how different it istoday compared back then.
(12:41):
But you know they would signlike a ridiculous amount of
picture deal.
Yeah, and they owned you, yep,so yep.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So, um, also they, they didn't want shirley, so
obviously, like 20th century foxwasn't going to give up shirley
temple.
But they thought that wasprobably a good thing because
they didn't think that shirleytemple had, like, the right
voice to sing somewhere over therainbow.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Oh really.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
She wasn't mature enough to sing that song.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Did she, did she?
I guess I don't recall.
Did she sing, I'm sure?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
she did, yeah, she sang and dance.
Okay, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, andthey're like Judy Garland, who
was 16 at this time.
Right, had a mature singingvoice, right, and a stronger
like emotional range.
Okay, um, and so they went withjudy garland after, like their
test recordings and stuff.
How?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
old was shirley temple.
At this time did you say oh, Ididn't say how old she was.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Judy garland was 16.
I don't recall.
I can look it up real quick, umwell and while you do that, I
can.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I can tell you that this is the second time in three
episodes that we brought upShirley Temple.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
What.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We were talking about Shirley Temple to drink in our
conversation episode.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Okay, I remember that .
So, Jeez, louise, you have theweirdest memory I know.
Okay, so Shirley Temple wasborn in 28, 1928.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So she would have only been 11.
Wow, jeez.
Okay, makes sense then.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay, so 16-year-old, wow, geez, okay, makes sense
that.
Okay, so um 16 year old judygarland.
Yeah, she still wasn't quiteyoung enough.
Quote unquote young enough fortheir vision?
Yep, the studio's vision.
So what did they do?
They starved her they bound herbody in corsets um and altered
(14:24):
her face.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Like they gave her like a little like button nose
and stuff.
I don't think that made it intothe film.
I don't think it did, but it'slike come on and then, yes, a
very strict diet of coffee andpills chicken soup one meal a
day.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Was that for the soul ?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Chicken soup, black coffee and cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yep, that was the other thing.
Yeah, yes, because that works.
Pure 16-year-old God wild timesback then.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I have a picture that's going to come up on our
social media, but it's basicallya visual that I created of what
her meals would look likeCoffee and cigarettes for the
morning.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Chicken soup, probably mostly broth I'm sure
with cigarettes for lunch.
Coffee and cigarettes for asnack.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Coffee and cigarettes for dinner that is just wild,
that they could get away withthat even in 19th.
Well, what's 20?
38 when they filmed at, 37 whenthey filmed it, 37 when they
filmed it?
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
She was basically chain smoking 80 cigarettes a
day to keep her appetite down.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
That's four packs of cigarettes.
That's insane.
No wonder she died when she waslike, wasn't she in her 40s
Right?
Yeah, 40s right, like 46 orsomething like that, I don't
recall.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I know I'd have to look it up.
I don't have her life memorized, but what?
I know you've watched the movieso mgm also had another casting
shuffle with um ray bulger yeah, because go ahead sorry no,
that's okay because was what wasthe wait?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I'm getting the names mixed up because one of them
was allergic to the paint.
What really?
My tab, but why?
Because I fidget with it you'regonna have to pay your tab now
anyways yes.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
so yeah, they had ray bulger, yes, playing the tin
man right, and buddy ebsen, yes,who was the original?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's the name I couldn't remember.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Original Hillbillies Beverly Hillbillies guy.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I can't remember his name.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Clampett, jed Clampett.
Yes, that's right, good job.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, so Buddy Epson was going to be the Scarecrow.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And Bolger, which is like this, really lanky, almost
like a robbery looking dancer,and that's kind of.
That's kind of what he wasknown for Right, desperately
wanted the scarecrow role.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
It was like, basically, taylor made for him
and he persuaded the studio toswitch their parts.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
So Epson became Tin man.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then he became not Tin man because he was
allergic to the.
What is it?
Was it a paint?
Wasn't it like a lead-basedpaint or some stupid shit?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
like that.
I will get to that in a moment.
Okay, but initially their rolesswapped okay.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow, you just flipped me off when you did that.
You're welcome, the WickedWitch.
Yeah're welcome, the WickedWitch yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Margaret Hamilton.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Is the Wicked Witch.
However, it started first withOscar winning actress Gail
Sondergaard.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Not familiar with her works.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
She was mostly in the 20s and the 30s.
She actually worked up into the80s, um, I believe.
But um, she was in the moviebabes in toyland.
Oh yeah, or maybe that was raybulger, I don't remember anyways
, but there, no, no, sorry, raybulger was in babes of toyland
yeah, that makes sense um gail,um soddenbark guard.
(17:59):
So, son sondergaard, thank you,as if you said you're welcome,
you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Any who's.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
She was in more.
It looked like more foreignfilms.
Oh, okay that came out in theus, if that makes any sense.
I mean they were like foreignfilms, but they were anyway, it
doesn't matter, it reallydoesn't so they arrange
originally had her as the wickedwitch and she was like a
glamorous, pretty witch okay um,and they're like let's scrap
(18:34):
this idea.
We need a little bit of ascarier interpretation.
So sodden guard was like thatain't me, so I'm gonna bow out
peace, I'm out yep.
And then margaret hamilton fullyembraced that green skin with
the crooked, hooked nose andwarts and stuff and she effing
(18:55):
delivered right yeah, especiallywhen she got burned we will
also get to that.
I figured as much.
Then the film's directionchanged hands multiple times
okay so we start with richardthorpe.
He was the very first director.
Okay, he shot for two weeks ohwow, in 1938, before the
(19:17):
producer halted production dueto terrible results.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
They just weren't happy, so they just did not like
what he was coming out with, orwhatnot.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
No, Thorpe had put Garland in a blonde wig and
heavy makeup for a young girl.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Wasn't that more true to the book though?
Like wasn't she actually blondein the book?
I don't believe so.
Maybe I'm thinking of somethingdifferent.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't believe so.
I'm thinking of somethingdifferent.
I don't believe so, but she wasa young girl.
I would say she was probablyshirley temple's age in the book
like 11 or so.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I do recall that I guess I didn't know it was the
first director put her, tried todress her up to make her look
younger as well, with the wigand everything.
I knew that, but I guess Ididn't know it was a different
director, okay they had four,four total shit.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I never knew that, but I guess I didn't know it was
a different director.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, they had four, four total shit, I never knew
that so the second one, georgekuker.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
He is uncredited okay um.
He spent a few days refiningthe film's look okay he ditched
the blonde wig, toned downgarland's makeup to more of a
natural look right and then rehelped recast tin man after
ebsen's departure, which we willtalk about yeah thirdly, um
(20:26):
victor fleming.
Okay, he, he took over over themajority of the filming and
he's kind of the one credited asthe director.
The director um, but he kind ofinstilled order on the
production.
Fleming would leave just beforecompletion because he was
(20:46):
offered to direct Gone with theWind with Vivien Leigh.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Which was also MGM, which makes sense.
Then, final director King Vidor.
King Vidor, he stepped in tofinish the remaining scenes,
notably the black and whitescenes, the Kansas scenes at the
beginning, including the Overthe Rainbow song, gotcha.
It took four directors to getDorothy to the Emerald City.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I never knew that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Okay, that's awesome yeah but because of all these
changes, it resulted incontinuity issues.
Right, dorothy's hair lengthchanges throughout the entire
movie and I will insert apicture here.
Okay, there's a short, there'sa medium and there's a long.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
It's funny, though, cause likeI've seen that movie countless
times throughout my life andwithout knowing that, like
actually knowing it, I wouldhave never guessed oh, it's no,
I I did know about it, so Ithink it's noticeable, but I
knew about it but you know aboutit.
So if you're looking for it,you're gonna like oh yeah, it is
longer, which I get, yeah, butme as a you know about it.
(21:59):
So if you're looking for it,you're going to be like, oh yeah
, it is longer which I get.
Yeah, but me as a you know eightyear old kid watching wizard of
Oz, because when I was a kid Icouldn't just pull it up on some
streaming service.
You had to wait for it to be onTV, and usually on and like the
fall Thanksgiving.
Oh, oh yeah.
(22:21):
I watched it every year aroundthat time.
I remember sitting in this oneparticular blue recliner we had
at our house and it was stormyday out or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Snow sounds lovely it was great.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And then just watched , watched a wizard of oz and I
would have never guessed thatbecause I was a fucking kid
right so anyways so thelegendary over the rainbow
Rainbow song almost didn't makeit into the film.
Did you know that I did?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
not know that.
They felt that the balladslowed down the pacing and
worried that kids would kind ofget bored of the Kansas scenes
because the big selling pointwas this Technicolor Oz, of
course, of course.
So associate producer ArthurFreed was so appalled that he
issued an ultimatum to studiochief Louis B Mayor yeah, the
(23:08):
song stays or I go.
Wow, mayor relented and hefamously famously said, quote
let the boys have the damn song,put it back in the picture, it
can't hurt.
End quote.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
It was like one of the biggest parts of the movie
because it was such a catchytune.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It won the Academy Award for Best Original Song.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Just think if they would have never put that in
there.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Do you have how many total Oscars they won Two, it
was only two.
It was only two.
It was only two.
What was the other one then?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't recall, but it wasn't like actor, actress,
supporting or anything like that, yeah no, I want to say it was
like production or somethinglike that that's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
I was just curious.
I guess I never really fullylooked at what they all, what
they all won.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So okay, you finished your beer the same time I
finished my beer, which nevereffing happens because you're
you're sucking that thing downokay, so now I'm gonna try the
cucumber lime let me know whatyou think of that.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Which one are you trying?
This is the sandia, yeah, solet me know what you think of
yours, because I think you'regonna like that one too I gotta
smell it.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Oh hell, yes, told you.
That's why I wanted to give youthose two, because I knew you
were gonna like both of I.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Gotta smell it.
Oh, hell yes.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Told you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's why I wanted to give you those two, because I
knew you were going to likeboth of those.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Chefs Piss.
Oh my God, that is so good.
I love the cucumber, I cantaste the cucumber.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But it's not like I can taste the lime.
It's not aggressive.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's not overwhelming .
Yeah, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So we're talking about the wizard of oz um, it's
a movie.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's a movie, okay.
So there was also the deletedjitterbug number.
Have you heard of the jitterbug?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I mean, I know of the jitterbug, but not from this
movie, nope so it was like alarge-scale swing dance really
sequence.
Yeah, that would not haveworked.
They called it the jitterbug.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It was featuring dorothy and her friends and they
were like dancing freneticallyin the haunted forest which the
wicked witch sends a magicalinsect to make them dance
uncontrollably wow, it's likethat one dance dancing plague
yeah yeah, where was thatholland?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I don't recall I brought it up once, I don't
remember.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, but they cut um the number because it was the
timing and the tone, it justdidn't work, did not?
That would not have worked inthat movie so no, like real
footage of the sequence hasreally survived I was gonna ask
if there was any there's like agif oh that is kind of going
(25:46):
around, but that's not really,and and the quality of the image
is very, very poor.
I'm sure it's awful but in themovie there still remains a
dialogue of the witch that says,quote I sent a little insect on
a head to take the fight out ofthem.
Sorry, let me reach for, let medo that again.
(26:07):
I sent a little insect on ahead to take the fight out of
them.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
And see, I can't recall that I don't recall that
line at all, me either.
Do you know when I don't?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
okay, no, because, because, but I'm going to watch
it now.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I think we should watch that, since we're doing an
episode on it.
I don't recall that line at all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I don't either.
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Okay, we'll have to watch it and look out for it,
okay.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So Wizard of Oz sometimes felt a little perilous
, yeah, a little perilous.
Yeah, the the reproductiongained a reputation of kind of a
curse, like reputation of theinjuries and the ordeals that
happened on the set.
Sure, okay, some of them were alittle shocking, a little
(26:53):
horrifying, a little traumaticyep so tin man's toxic makeup.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
You had mentioned that so do you have what the
actual makeup was, that was hewas allergic to?
Okay, or was he allergic?
Or was it just because they useit again on the next guy?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
it.
So, yes, I will, I will addressboth, okay, okay.
So buddy epson, the originaltin man, yeah, and I will insert
a picture.
Yes, he so.
He had a silvery face that wasachieved with aluminum dust yes
so no one realized that havingan actor inhale aluminum dust
(27:32):
all day, yeah, was potentiallyharmful.
Yeah, nine days of filming isall it took and he was like he
was in excruciating pain.
Yeah, he was struggling tobreathe.
He was rushed to the hospital.
He had essentially beenpoisoned by aluminum dust.
It coated his lungs.
(27:53):
Yeah, so he spent weeksrecovering in an oxygen tent.
Wow, while the studio wasimpatient, said we're gonna
replace, we're gonna replace youso how much?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
do you know how much of his scenes were filmed before
they replaced him?
Because I mean nine days,that's especially back.
Then they probably filmed adecent amount I think so.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Some of I saw a picture of him in a kansas scene
, but but usually the kansasscenes were done at the very end
, as per the director's stuffthat I wrote, so I'm not really
sure.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Um how long?
But because I mean nine daysback.
Then they were like that couldhave been like a movie I mean
honestly, because they werepretty like oh, let's you gotta
pump this shit out so we canmake our money, yeah, so I
wonder, I wonder how much wasactually filmed with him.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Interesting so jack haley yeah is the new tin man
with safer makeup.
Of course they mix the aluminumpowder into a paste, because
that makes it safer without.
So it's not loose powder thathe's inhaling.
I mean, it's still there though, so Haley developed a severe
(29:07):
eye infection from it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh well, that's not surprising.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, to add insult to injury, mgm didn't tell Haley
the real reason Epson fell ill.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That is sheisty.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
So he was unaware of this like potential hazard.
Right in the end, buddy ebsen'svocals can actually still be um
heard in some of the ensemblesongs.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh really so they didn't cut them out of there.
Yep, they just had.
Uh, hayley just went lip syncthen, or wow, that's wild now
burt lauer yes or lar yeahl-a-h-r lar hr do you recall
which one he might be?
He's um.
(29:52):
Oh my god, what is he?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
the lion he's the lion, yeah, I was getting.
It's been a bit minutes sinceI've watched this too I'm I'm
throwing names at you left andright, here too and I know them.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm not gonna say really well, I'm fairly well,
but yeah, okay, I was mixingthem up there.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So yeah, he's the lion yes, a bro, ray ray bulger.
Yes, scarecrow, yesaley Tin manBulger's the one I know the
best.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right For whatever reason, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And then Bert Lahr.
Yeah, is the Cowardly Lion.
Yes, his costume a real fuckinglion, isn't that wild.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I actually have heard that before.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
It weighed 90 pounds.
Oh my God, how could you With acomplete lion mane?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
how could you, with a complete lion mane?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
so did they just like hey, uh, they didn't kill the
lion from the mgm, like, andthen they replace it with
bertlar, yeah, they should have.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
That would be great oh my god side note on that
animal abuse is not funny it'snot, it sucks uh.
Have you ever seen the actualfilming of that?
Yes, the lion, roar andeverything I think so yeah yeah,
it's actually pretty funnybecause he's got, they got him
like standing on like a, like abench or something, yeah,
whatever and then doing thisthing and capturing it.
(31:21):
It was pretty, pretty wildbecause it's a fucking lion you
could eat me.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Okay, so there's no lightweight faux fur alternative
for 38.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Nope.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Nope.
So under these blazingtechnicolor lights, they were
notoriously hot.
Blazing technicolor lights yeah, they were notoriously hot.
Lar would sweat heavily rightinside this suit.
The heat on set was so extremethat even actors in normal
costumes were fainting jesus andgetting carried off of set
(31:54):
could you imagine what thatwould do for me?
Speaker 2 (31:57):
you would I think you would bow out, I would
literally die, or if I didn'tquit, yeah, so yeah, that would
do for me.
You would, I think you wouldbow out, I would literally die.
Or if I didn't quit, yeah, soyeah, that would.
Uh, no, that would, that wouldnot be fun for me, yeah lar was
drenched each day.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
At the end of the day he was drenched.
The crew had to dry out thelion's costume in an industrial
size drying bin every singlenight to prevent mildew and a
smell yeah, oh, lord that poorlion I know, but like it must
have worked because he doesn'tlook sweaty, but it's all nice
(32:34):
and fluffy and yeah, it getswashed every night well, well,
yeah, I suppose, so the costume,Sweat and All.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Auctioned in 2014 for $3 million.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Holy shit, really $3 million for a sweaty, used lion
skin suit.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
By Burt Lahr.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
What's his other famous movie?
And so, anyways, I don't know Idon't either.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I I know he's been in other things, but I couldn't
tell you.
You know who he could easilylike just walk on the set and do
a great job.
What the carol burnett show.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I could easily see him just picking up and just
being one of the comedic actorson her show I could definitely
see that, for sure, yeah, Ithink it's because his facial
features are very in hismannerisms.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah yeah, just big and bold and they're great, for
sure okay, margaret hamilton,yes, the witch she probably had
the most traumatic injury on setthe burning during the
Munchkinland scene.
At the beginning the witchexits, Tries to In a fiery flash
(33:47):
of smoke.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a hell of a special effect.
Oh great, yeah, If I'm notmistaken, they actually used the
shot that burned her in themovie.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I've heard that.
I did not confirm that, but Ihave heard that.
I don't know if it's correcteither, but yeah, but Hamilton
was supposed burned her in themovie.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I've heard that.
I did not confirm that, but Ihave heard.
I have heard that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I don't know if it's correct either, but yeah but
hamilton was supposed to dropthrough a hidden trap door.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yes, before the pyrotechnics went off but that
didn't work out that way thespecial effects crew were a
second too soon on the thefireball and she caught fire
yeah I'm gonna insert a pictureof the scene, not her isn't it?
And it's really too bad too,because they couldn't throw
(34:27):
water on her because she'd melt.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Sorry drink more.
Okay, would you please cheersto me.
Her hat and her broom caughtfire and she suffered third
degree burns on her face andhand.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So how far into filming was this Do you?
Did you come across that?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I did not come across timing.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Because could you have met?
So let's pretend, and it couldbe the truth too.
I have no idea.
Hey, you just got burned.
Sorry about that.
We're going to paint your burnsgreen now.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, fuck.
Yeah, yeah, they actually didwait for her to recuperate okay
so her chin, her nose and herforehead were scalded.
Right her right eyebrow andeyelashes were singed off.
Her upper lip and eyelid wereseverely burned wow.
And when she looked down at herhand, the skin was gone.
(35:20):
It burned her skin rightthrough her hand, wow.
So to make it worse, the team'sfirst priority.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, to quickly remove her copper based green
makeup before it seeped into heropen wounds, which would have
like poisoned her bloodstream.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, she would have fucking died.
Yeah, wow, while she's in thismakeup, in this green makeup,
she literally cannot eat on setfor fear of that green king
accidentally ingesting.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Wow, yeah good thing, uh, things have gotten better.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Holy shit, yeah, that would suck, so the studio did
not send her home no, they'relike hey, we need you a friend
had to drive her to safety comeon.
But the mgm execs phoned herevery day well, that's nice of
them asking when you asking whenwill you be?
(36:20):
Back.
When can you come back?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I've actually heard that it took her six weeks to
recuperate so were they able toget other things done in the six
weeks of her absence, becauseobviously she's not in any scene
I would assume, but I can'tconfirm that I would assume it's
gotta be because b-roll,whatever.
(36:45):
Yeah, well, I mean she's not inevery scene, so there's plenty
of stuff to film without her.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So when she comes back, she's a single mother.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
She chooses not to sue the studio for fear that she
would be blacklisted that'sfucking terrible so when she did
return, her hands were stilltoo raw for makeup, so she wore
gloved green gloves in some ofthe scenes oh and I'm not sure
if they were picked up on camera, but I am for sure gonna look
(37:17):
all right, so we have to lookfor that one line and green
gloves okay, the bug line andthe green gloves yeah, okay,
yeah, I'm on board for this sothen yeah, a stunt woman yes you
would think that the studiowould learn their lesson, but
they planned another fierybroomstick scene.
Hamilton was like I'm out theyhad to get the shot, kate they,
(37:42):
they brought in a stunt doubleright.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Her name is betty danko betty danko, I also have a
picture of her all right anddanko mounted an explosive
rigged broom for a scene inwhich the which would was flying
skyward into the, into thesmoke oh gotcha so during the
take the pipe attached, thebroomstick exploded.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Oh fuck, again because of timing I feel like
they need a new special effectsdepartment jesus fuck danko was
thrown off, suffering severeinjuries.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
She said later quote I felt as though my scalp was
coming off.
End quote, and she was knockedunconscious so what were all of
her injuries?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
did you see that I did?
Speaker 1 (38:30):
not go into detail with this um, but no need to get
graphic no, not for this, notfor this podcast.
No, we don't do graphic here.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
We just do sad.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
She spent 11 days in the hospital and she has
permanent scars and damaged legmuscles.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
So her compensation.
She earned $35 for this stunt.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
So what's that today?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I didn't look, that wasn't part of my research.
Moving on, yes, please.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
The scene the poppy field oh, with the asbestos
fucking genius, move there, theydecided that snowflakes made of
chris, chris, chrisotile,chrisotile, chrisotile.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Asbestos okay, a material known to cause
mesothelioma lung cancer andasbestosis asbestosis
inflammation okay, at the time,asbestos was actually widely
used in films because films andbuildings and construction
(39:53):
everywhere it looked like fluffy, clean snow right, it was
non-flammable.
Plus, it was a major plus onthese like new technicolor sets
as well, right and it stayedvisible on camera longer than
real snow or cotton or likeother methods do you know how
they did the snow?
and it's a wonderful life soap Ithink you've told me that I
(40:15):
have.
So there were no masks, nowarnings, just open mouths and
wide eyes and people singing,and they inhaled this
carcinogenic snowflake, like itwas christmas morning asbestos
was also used in christmas treeflocking and fake fireplace
(40:36):
ashes during the 1930s through1950s that's wild.
I mean, they didn't know no, sosome fake snow was used in the
movie holiday in the movie whitechristmas um.
Asbestos wasn't officiallybanned in the us in consumer
products until the 1980s wow,not until then.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I mean, I know it's been banned for a while, like I
remember.
So where I grew up there was wehad the elementary school and
the high school or like kind ofnear each other, and then down
the road was the big old biddleschool.
It was a big old building.
It was great.
Um, I actually did summerschool classes in there.
They shut it all down exceptfor the gym.
We used to have liketournaments, basketball
(41:18):
tournaments, whatever in therebecause of all the asbestos in
it.
And then they uh tore it down.
And now there's now it's alibrary with an observatory cool
, that's kind of neat never beenit, okay, yeah the munchkins?
yeah, there were over a hundredof them didn't the last one just
die like a few years?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
back?
Yes, I believe so, not thatlong.
Yeah, I would say within thelast 10.
Just die like a few years back.
Yes, I believe so, not thatlong ago.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, I would say within the last 10 years.
Oh yeah, Something like that,but yeah.
I think it was the last one, ifI'm not mistaken.
I think so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So these munchkins, these people that they called
munchkins on the film?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Well, I mean it's not derogatory.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
They were brought over from Europe's dwarf
vaudeville circuit.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
And they were boisterous.
Yes, to put it simply.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
They were rambunctious.
They were drunken parties,rambunctious behaviors.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, because I mean they weren't kids, they were
adults.
They were adults, so I meanDecades later.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yes, Judy Garland's ex-husband Sid weren't kids,
they were adults.
They were adults, so I meandecades later.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Judy Garland's ex-husband Sid Luft.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Claimed that the Munchkins were constantly drunk
and, quote put their hands underJudy's dress, end quote.
But there's nothing to say thatthat was actually true.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So, but he wasn't around when she was 16.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
So I mean, it would have had to come from her.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But he wasn't around when she was 16.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So I mean it would have had to come from her, if it
came from anyone, but there'sno evidence, right?
So excuse me.
Garland herself joked in a 1967interview that the munchkins
quote had a very good time andthat their drinking was the only
trouble on the oz set.
So she called it annoying buthardly traumatic.
(43:03):
Yeah, yeah so she was.
She was mostly badgered from thestudio producers rather than
the the munchkins, right, yeah,yeah, so they did the munchkins.
I keep saying the munchkins,but the people who play the
munchkins did notoriously earnvery low wages.
Didn't some of them not earnanything at all?
(43:23):
Kind of thing well, my sourcesays 50 a week okay but um even
toto, the dog earned more I waswas just going to tell you.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
did you know that Toto earned more than that?
Yes, Toto was in a couplemovies.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, so Toto, yeah, he wasn't even safe on set.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
No, people were trying to eat him.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Toto is actually a girl.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
And her name is Terry .
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yes, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
She was stepped on by one of the witch's palace
guards during the filming.
The dog suffered a sprainedsome sources say broken foot and
had to rest for about two weeks.
Jesus and a dog stand-in filledin some of the scenes until
Terry returned to work.
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Total salary was $125 per week.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Isn't that wild for a dog?
And then these humans got paid50.
But apparently terry's agentsdid her right because she was in
about 22 films yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
That's how many I knew she was in a bunch of them.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
She was only credited for those out of those 22 in
three movies, Wizard of Oz beingone of them.
Otherwise, everything else isuncredited.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Right, which?
Why would they give a credit toa dog?
Yeah, Back then.
You know, today they woulddefinitely do that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
So Judy Garland basically would have been abused
.
What we would call abused no,it's not.
Basically she was flat outabused yes here, judy, here's
your coffee and your cigarettesyeah, so she had that one meal a
day um chicken soup, blackcoffee, cigarettes, plus
amphetamines to or pep pills toboost her energy and then
(45:14):
barbiturates to force sleep yepgarland, who was 16, worked
grueling hours and was often sojittery from the drugs that the
crew literally had to hold herstill that's wild, yeah, it's
just.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
It's yeah, not basically there was literal
child abuse.
Yes, from these people that arelike oh, we're good, are you,
though, I mean.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
There's one scene where Dorothy slaps the cowardly
lion.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
But Garland kept like cracking up because she's a
teenager and it was funny to herfor some reason, and she just
kept cracking up.
So Victor Fleming, the thirddirector, slaps judy garland.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
oh, does she stop laughing?
He said quote now darling, thisis serious, go in there and
work end quote okay, I mean he'snot wrong in the work part, but
he's 100 wrong in the work part, but he's 100% wrong in the
slapping part.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Garland was slapped into composure.
Oh man and the next take wasperfect.
Wow, imagine that Fleminginstantly felt remorse.
But Judy forgave him on thespot, kissed his nose and
reassured him, and later shepraised Fleming as a wonderful
man with kind eyes.
(46:33):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Okay, I mean, that makes up for it all.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
But of course, after all this she had a lifetime
struggle with diet pills, mentalhealth drugs alcohol, the whole
gambit.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
unfortunately, when you're fed this shit
consistently for however longthey were filmed.
When you're 16 years old,you're, when you're fed the shit
consistently for however longthey were filmed.
Yeah, when you're 16 years oldyou're impressionable youth.
Things are gonna stick,unfortunately, in a bad way.
So I mean it's just really sadthat that movie ruined the rest
of her life and she had a goodcareer for a while.
(47:10):
She she was alive.
She did other things.
What's the actor?
She was always in movies withthe Mickey.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Rooney, mickey Rooney , yeah, mickey.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Rooney.
So she, you know she did abunch of movies, but like yeah,
I want to say she was like 46.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
She was young when she died.
I'll look it up after this.
Yeah, that's fine, okay.
Okay, after this.
Yeah, that's fine, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
so no discussion of oz lore is complete without yes
the munchkin suicide so is thatthe one who supposedly hung
themselves in the forest?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
yes, okay for decades yes rumors persisted that a
small figure seen in the distantbackground of the scene where
dorothy and scarecrow areskipping down the road is a
munchkin actor's body hangingfrom a scene, right From a tree.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
And I'm going to insert a picture here as well.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
I hope so Actually it's a far away picture, but I'd
like to correct you.
I will be putting the picturein.
You are going to be supplyingthem to me.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
So this is entirely false.
Yes, it is.
There is no hanging person.
It's actually a large exoticbird yeah that is spreading its
wings.
So they added these birds totry to like, give a more vibrant
feel to the forest, and you cansee these birds like throughout
the forest scenes.
This one was just so far awaythat it looks like something is
(48:35):
hanging from a tree.
Yeah, I don't know if I've everactually noticed it every time
I have looked for it and I waslike, yep, there it is.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
But yep, that's a bird all right when we watch it,
to look for those two otherthings.
You have to point it out like.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
These are big birds.
They're right, yeah, right,right, yeah, but far away.
Yeah, I think they're probablyabout as tall as these munchkins
someone probably thought, hey,did you know what I heard?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
and again it is word of mouth, snowballed, snowballed
from there and it's like, yeah,I heard from so-and-so and then
just whatever, it was just amyth that grew and stuck over
time, basically this conspiracydidn't like really gain traction
until the 50th anniversaryaround 1989, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
But it was debunked by these film historians, of
course.
Yeah, but between the facemelting makeup, the dog stomping
and then enough asbestos tolike insulate a Home Depot.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
There really is no place like home.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Hey, I see what you did there.
So who wrote the Wizard of Oz?
Frank L Baum.
I knew you were going to get itwrong.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
L Frank Baum.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
God damn it.
Most people do that.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Because of the L.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, because it makes sense to have that in the
middle Cause.
Who starts their name with aninitial rather than their full
name?
Um, and didn't you and I?
We actually looked up a whileback.
You probably not remember this,cause, you're you?
But um, the red brick road wasadded to the movie.
It's not actually in the book.
Am I remembering that right?
(50:14):
Yes, I believe so.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I think, yeah, I don't think it was in the book,
and then it leads to nowhereyeah, because everyone's always
like where does it go it?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
literally leads to nowhere.
Why couldn't they just takethat home?
Speaker 1 (50:23):
okay, so judy garland was born in 22, 1922 and she
died in 1969.
So what is that math 47?
Yeah, okay so close was she 47,her birthday's coming up so
when did she die?
Speaker 2 (50:37):
and she was born june 10th 1922 yes died june 22nd so
she just turned 47, you werereally close yeah, I was damn
that's.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
That's crazy job, all right yeah I knew it was.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
I knew it was right around there, so yeah, not too
shabby good job.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Thank you um so, yeah , that is my favorite movie and
I am gonna force you to watch ityou're not gonna force me,
because I love that movie tooand then wicked um that might,
we might have issues on, but umI it's not such a good job with
it.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
But they ruined the book just like the musical did.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
I know you're really into the Wicked Book and it's a
very good book.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
It's such a good book .
Speaker 1 (51:19):
But they wanted to tie it a little bit more into
the Wizard of Oz movie.
But it's not.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And the Wizard of.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Oz book is not the Wizard of Oz movie.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Oh, not at all.
I am so mad.
I took you there once, which,unfortunately, that bookstore is
gone now, the one you remember,when I took you to that
bookstore up at Genesee.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
The really overwhelming one.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, because there's just shit just everywhere and
you don't know where you'rereally looking.
One time I went in there theyhad the old Wizard of Oz books
and I'm like.
I should have fucking boughtthem.
I mean, they had like I don'tknow six to 10 of them I don't
remember how many, I don'tremember the price off, but it
would have been a decent chunkof change.
But fuck, I wish I would havebought those.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, I wonder what they did with all the books then
.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Well, they sold stuff on eBay too, closed up shop and
, and, um, maybe just kept it tothat or something, I have no
idea, but they had so much justlike it's like why would you try
and resell this yeah?
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Okay, real quick, before we like finish up here
and talk about our, ourbeverages.
What is your favorite scene inlizard of Oz?
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Oh man, um, I always really liked when they first all
like the cowardly lion,especially when they first went
to go meet the wizard and how hejust wanted to bail, kind of
thing, and even like someonepulled my tail yeah, that was
you.
(52:52):
But even like the song, like ifI were king or whatever, he's
great, I love that, like I'msorry, everybody, but yes,
that's, that's what I wastalking about.
So, so that whole number, like,even, like, even again, if you
(53:14):
encompass this whole section ofthe movie, when they first knock
on the door, the dude with thegiant mustache, and then you see
all the multicolored horses,which are all different horses,
and you can see that they'redifferent horses because they're
literally not the same horsebut painted different colors and
then the whole King of theForest song, like, leading up to
when they first meet the wizard.
Um, yeah, like someone pulledmy tail or whatever.
(53:38):
Um, I think if I had to pickone off top of my head, I really
enjoy that.
So what's yours?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
mine would be the horse of a different color yeah
do you know what they paintedthe horses with?
Speaker 2 (53:48):
kool-aid jello.
Yeah, yes, that's the word Icouldn't remember what it was.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Yes, jell-o, and they're like quick, hurry up and
shoot them before they startlicking it off.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yes, that's right.
That's right, I did know that.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
And I always thought the Tin Man's heart at the very
end, the string that it was onwas full of popcorn.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, but it's.
I mean, it's a classic movieagain.
What did I say?
60 or 80 sorry, 86 years it'sbeen out.
That's wild.
When was it actually released?
During the year, did you seethat date?
I don't remember off the top ofmy head.
So, but yeah, it's hard tobelieve.
I've been watching it.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
Although it did terribly in theaters.
It wasn't until color TV cameout that they started putting it
on TV, and people were amazed,they were amazed, and that's how
the popularity came.
And that's why they keptputting it on TV.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Right, it's funny.
Even today, though, thathappens with movies like so it's
funny to hear that it did thenbecause like office space didn't
do that great in the theater.
It's a fucking cult classicmovie it's a great fucking movie
too or, you know, insert otherone, even shawshank redemption.
Yep, that was a great movie,which you actually have pictures
on your wall anyways, it's aninside joke that's been going on
(55:12):
for a while.
Um, you know, that movie forall intents and purposes did
terrible in the theater, butit's a phenomenal fucking movie
um but I also did remember.
I don't remember the movies thatcame out.
I think it was like two otherhuge movies came out the same
weekend that shawshank did andkind of fucked their chances.
(55:33):
I'm trying to blank on whatthose two are, but doesn't
matter anyways.
Um, yeah, so okay, how did youlike your beverages?
Speaker 1 (55:40):
I liked both very much.
I don't think I can pick afavorite okay, that's, and
that's fine the hibiscus or thecucumber lime.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I love them both and I want more okay, well, maybe
we'll, uh, we'll get some moreand then you can try these two,
because again, they're good.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
I just thought those two are the better of the four
and you and I have differenttastes, so maybe I'll like them.
Yeah, you might like them, youdo but I was right, though.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
You actually rather enjoyed those, and thank you
very much for not throwing thesecond tab on the floor that was
very nice of you.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
I fidgeted that one off too I heard.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
I heard it rattle on the can, so I'll have to go find
the other one somewhere on thefloor.
Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, damn right, you will.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
But um, anyways, no, I I thought you would like those
.
I was.
It was fun sampling with mymother-in-law because you know I
don't get to see her a ton justbecause of scheduling and stuff
.
So it was nice that she wantedto have a couple beverages with
me.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah, and I tasted them.
I'm like, ooh, kate's going tolike these, so let's do it for
the podcast.
And yeah, I thought you wouldlike those.
I think you'll like these two.
I just those are the two betterout of the four, anyways, yeah.
So thank you for the Wizard ofOz.
Yes, you're welcome.
That's very great, and I'llhave to let Al know that.
(56:53):
Hey, we finally did it.
Do you remember when yousuggested that?
Speaker 1 (56:56):
I think it was really early on.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
I think it was actually very early on that he
suggested that he was like youknow what would be kind of cool,
all the weird shit thathappened around the Wizard of Oz
.
I'm like that sounds awesomeand I remember telling you, yeah
, and then it just kind ofstewed there for a bit, but it's
nice to finally get it out.
Yep, well, I suppose.
All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Music by Corey Akers.
Speaker 1 (57:42):
Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and turn
those notifications on to stayin the loop.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to
rate and review us.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.
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