February 15, 2024 • 26 mins
Imagine a home health care system that is not only accessible to more individuals but also delivers tangible outcomes - That's Aman Shah's (VP of New Ventures & Strategic Partnerships at VNS Health) vision. Through compelling frontline narratives and strategic partnerships, Aman emphasizes the significance of hands-on experience and direct communication in shaping a responsive healthcare landscape. Join Aman and co-host Jeff Howell as they delve into the current state of home health care, dissect its intricacies, and chart a course for a future that holds promise for a healthier society.
If you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all our episodes at alayacare.com/homehealth360.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS (00:00):
Healthcare is just so, so complicated.
I spend all of my time inhealthcare and I have trouble
accessing the healthcare systemand if I don't know what to do
or how to get a PCP, or how togo to the doctor or how to go to
a specialist, I couldn'timagine what it is for someone
who doesn't have as much contentwith the healthcare system that
I do.
So we really want to make itsimple to understand.
(00:20):
The second is easy to access.
Access is a very importantthing in healthcare across our
nation.
And then the third is beingmeaningful in those outcomes.
So when we look at thesepartnerships, those are the
three buckets that we're lookingat them on, but everything that
we do really discorrelate.
Jeff Howell, Director o (00:44):
Welcome everyone to another episode of
Home Health 360, where we speakwith leaders and home care and
home health from across theglobe.
Joining us today is Aman Shah,the former student body
president of Parcipany HillsHigh School and current Vice
President of New Ventures andStrategic Partnerships at VNS
Health in New York, where hefocuses on investing in
(01:08):
companies that make healthcaresimple to understand, easy to
access and, most of all,contributing to the mission of
helping to deliver better healthcomes for all.
Aman, thank you for being withus today.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (01:21):
Thank you, jeff.
We really had to go there.
The high school backgroundit'll never leave me, but I love
it.
I love it.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (01:27):
I had to merge our pre-recording
conversation about yourdedication to being the school
body president from, I guess,the age of 16 through 18.
And I love the fact that, ofall the guests I've ever had on,
you have been the one that'sbeen most dedicated to the arts
and science of public speaking.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (01:48):
I definitely try.
I think I did it a lot moreearlier on.
I'm not going to say in mycareer, but my child's right.
Then I do in my career today,before we hit the record button,
we were talking about howpeople are more afraid to speak
publicly than to die.
When I heard that when I was inthe seventh grade, I was like I
really need to start doingthings that I'm uncomfortable
with, and that is publicspeaking and the ability to
(02:12):
communicate and how wecommunicate is super, super
important.
I often say that it isn't whatwe say, but it's how we say it.
That is so important and theway we actually communicate can
be extremely effective and drivechange in what we care about.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (02:30):
Yeah , the person giving the eulogy
would rather be in the coffin.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (02:34):
Yes .
Jeff Howell, Director of G (02:35):
That is very, very true.
Well, VNS Health is a hugeorganization.
Give us a little bit of senseof the size and scope of the
company, and how did you makeyour way into the organization?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (02:46):
Yeah , VNS Health, for those that
aren't familiar, is one of thenation's largest home and
community based nonprofitorganizations.
On any given day, we have about50,000 people under our care
and, as you said, VNS Health isa very large organization and
there is a lot of components toour organization.
You're a payer and a provider.
On the provider side, we have alot of different components
(03:09):
that include traditional homehealth, personal care, hospice
and behavioral health, and whatis really amazing about all of
this is that everything we do isin the home and in the
community.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (03:22):
And how did you make your way over
there?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (03:24):
So I started my career in
healthcare when I was 16 yearsold.
When I was 16, I asked my momto drive me to Parsiupani
Volunteer Ambulance Squad.
So I mean a lot of trips downmemory lane as we had this
conversation and I joined to bea volunteer EMT.
I spent over seven years on theback of an ambulance actively
(03:46):
and down over 700 911 calls, andthat experience is what led me
to fall in love with healthcare.
People often talk about bootson the ground experience when it
comes to home health andhealthcare and, jeff, I can tell
you I've had a lot of boots onthe ground experience when it
comes to healthcare, and I oftensay that I have seen some of
the best of our healthcareecosystem and some of the worst
(04:08):
of our healthcare ecosystem byresponding to all the wrong
calls and meeting with patientswho didn't have health insurance
or were scared to seek care andgo into inpatient settings.
And I have to continuouslyexplain that I'm a volunteer.
Everything I'm doing is notgonna cost you.
I'm not gonna ask for any ofyour information.
I'm here to help.
And when I went to college andthen graduated, I spent my
(04:31):
entire career in consulting, andthe more I've rose in
consulting, the further andfurther I got from the patient
and I spent the majority of thattime consulting for healthcare.
But something was missing andwhat I believe was missing for
me was that experience I hadwhen I was 16 on the back of
that ambulance.
So when I learned about the NSHealth and learned about an
agency that delivers care inpeople's home, I fell in love
(04:56):
with it.
And the more I learned about it, the more excited I got from
the opportunity to do what I doevery single day and I can say
that I love what I do and I lovethe impact and the mission that
the organization has that I getto be a part of 700 volunteer
911 calls.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (05:12):
I don't think I'll ever meet
anyone else who has done thatall while being student body
president.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (05:18):
As well, we're gonna have this
common theme going back andforth across this conversation,
aren't we?
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (05:23):
And I did notice your banner
background image on yourLinkedIn profile is an EMT sort
of going by and in high speed,which I thought was really cool
visual.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (05:32):
It's that experience has really
brought me to where I am today.
I often say that what you doearly on, that experience
compounds later on in life andif it wasn't for me being a
first responder and me being onthe back of the ambulance and
having that experience, I don'tknow if I'd be in healthcare
today and I don't know if Iwould care as much as I care and
(05:53):
how curious I am to reallydrive change across this
ecosystem.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (05:57):
I think you probably, deep down,
really wanted to get intohealthcare, which was what led
you to that volunteer experienceto begin with.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS (06:03):
Absolutely From that experience when I was
younger.
It's like you always want toknow what to do when there is an
emergency, and I never knewwhat to do when there is an
emergency and you have twooptions either sit in the
background or take action.
And me and my best friend,whose name was Steven, we joined
it together.
So we did this together and webecame EMTs together and we were
(06:25):
on the ambulance together.
We were 20 years old, leading911 calls in parasypony and I
got to learn firsthand about alot of the problems that we have
across the healthcare industry,and problems mere opportunities
to make things better.
When I was younger, I used tosay that I'm gonna change the
whole industry.
I wanted to hit a home run andthe more I've learned about
(06:47):
healthcare, I'm trying to makelittle changes and little
differences, because thoselittle differences can lead to
meaningful impact down the line.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (06:54):
How long were you in EMT?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (06:55):
Still , I am a certified EMT in the
state of New Jersey.
I never gave it up.
I actively rode for over sevenyears.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (07:01):
So between that and the 700 calls
during volunteer, you've seen alot.
You've seen it all.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (07:06):
I have responded to numerous car
accidents.
I have done CPR on my cellphone patients.
I've given Narcan to moreoverdoses than I can think of.
I have seen it all.
Jeff Howell, Director of (07:16):
Right on the front lines.
VNS Health is a behemoth and Iwould imagine that once you hit
that size of 50,000 patients,that it's the Titanic and you've
carved out a niche for yourselfthat's much more nimble.
Can you give us a sense as towhat your department is now?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (07:32):
Yes , so, as you mentioned earlier,
I have the honor of serving asthe vice president of New
Ventures and StrategicPartnerships, this division.
Our vision is to really supportour members and our patients
and enable them to live inH-Well and their homes, which is
where they want to live inH-Well.
The way we do that is really,really unique and I love the way
we do that.
There's three main things thatdivision does.
(07:53):
The first thing we do is weinvest in early stage companies
and we invest in these companiesto really further the mission
and vision of our organization.
The second thing we do is weinvest in the H-Well is we
co-launch businesses.
So we work with entrepreneursthat are looking to drive change
(08:13):
across the healthcare ecosystemand we work with them to bring
these businesses to life and myentire background is in product,
so I often say we go from zeroto one with these entrepreneurs,
okay.
The third thing we do isventure partnerships.
We work with venture backedcompanies and create meaningful
partnerships to really drivechange across the healthcare
(08:36):
ecosystem.
There is a lot of great thingsthat startups bring to large
organizations and we createmeaningful partnerships with
them to drive change.
That's going to be the commonthing that I say to the
healthcare ecosystem until ourmembers and our patients.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (08:52):
And is there an equal balance of
these three buckets?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (08:56):
There is an equal balance of these
three buckets.
They all overlap with oneanother as well.
If we're investing in a company, we want to make sure that
we're investing in a companythat we can provide meaningful
input to and we can really helpenable that company to go from
that zero to one or enable thatto scale and grow.
If we're building a launchingcompany, we're going to be
partnering with that company aswell to be able to leverage it.
(09:18):
I know we're doing thesepartnerships, we're really
thinking about it to say, arethese partnerships really
enabling us to make healthcaresimple to understand?
Healthcare is just so, socomplicated.
I spend all of my time inhealthcare and I have trouble
accessing the healthcare system,and if I don't know what to do
or how to get a PCP or how to goto the doctor or how to go to a
specialist, I couldn't imaginewhat it is for someone who
(09:40):
doesn't have as much contactwith the healthcare system that
I do.
So we really want to make itsimple to understand.
The second is easy to access.
Access is a very importantthing in healthcare across our
nation.
And then the third is beingmeaningful in those outcomes.
So when we look at thesepartnerships, those are the
three buckets that we're lookingat them on, but everything that
we do really discorrelate.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (10:01):
So you have a number of projects,
some of which I think you arenot at liberty to give too many
details on.
Maybe some others you can Do.
You have a project in mind thatwe can go a little bit deep on.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (10:12):
One area that we focused on last
year is in the caregiver space.
So we in health we don't justserve our patients and members,
we serve the family and everyoneinvolved in the healthcare
journey and we know howimportant it is to involve
everyone in one person'shealthcare journey, especially
when we're talking about highneeds populations and we create
(10:34):
a partnership with a companycalled Helpful last year.
Helpful is a startup that istruly enabling the family
caregiver to understand thebenefits for a member.
Healthcare benefits is superhard to understand, super
challenging to navigate, so thisplatform takes the health plan
(10:54):
benefits, puts it into theplatform, makes it searchable
and when you search it it tellsyou how to actually access those
benefits.
The second thing Helpful does isit connects all of the medical
records into one platform.
So if you think about currentstate, imagine you have seven
different providers or sevendifferent doctors that are
saying all of those doctors willhave different EMRs, different
(11:17):
mind charts that you might loginto.
Helpful actually bringseverything together in one
location so you can see aftervisit summaries, you can see
medications, you can really havea full view and full picture of
your loved one.
And then the last thing is itdoes skills-based training.
So, as a caregiver, you wannaget smarter on the person that
you're taking care of and theperson that is under your care,
(11:39):
and it enables you to truly havethat understanding of what does
it mean if my loved one's adiabetic?
How do I take care of adiabetic?
What does it mean if someonejust had a stroke and they came
back from the hospital and nowwe have to take care of them?
Like, how do we actually dothat in a meaningful way?
So we're very excited topartner with Helpful and it's
something that we love to beclose to because we know how
(12:00):
important that is.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (12:02):
So how does Helpful interact with
the continuum of care?
So if someone goes to aphysician appointment versus if
they get an in-home healthcare,Helpful is tapped into the EMRs
that everyone's using across thespectrum Based off of the 21st
Century Cures Act that went intoplace.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (12:20):
You have to be able to pull data
into one system, so Helpful hasabout 30,000 different health
systems on its platform today,and a loved one can pull in the
information for the person thatyou're caring for through this
platform, so you don't have tohave direct integration with
every EMR.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (12:39):
It's really almost consolidating
everything into kind of a familyportal, kind of experience
Correct.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Hea (12:45):
that's one way to look at it and then,
when you have that ease ofaccess, you can see everything
in that one location.
So, to give you a very tangibleexample, I have two parents
that are aging.
My one parent has multipledoctors at Eos and Cs and right
now I have to actually log intothings separately to understand
everything that's happening.
I now have the ability to bringeverything into one platform
and see it all.
(13:06):
In addition to that, he's ontraditional Medicare, so I can
see all of his Medicare benefitsas well in that one platform
and I can start connecting dotsand drawing those trends and
over time it'll personalize withwhat I am looking for and what
I am looking to do as well.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:20):
Got it.
That is very helpful.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (13:23):
It is very helpful.
The CEO Neap the companyhelpful.
You're the great guy and I loveworking with him.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:29):
And is that bucket one early stage
investments where you guys foundthese guys and are supporting
them, or is it something thatyou guys did at colon?
It's bucket three.
It's a partnership.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (13:38):
We're partnering with that company.
So that is bucket three.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:40):
How long has helpful been around we
?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (13:42):
went live with helpful back in
September of last year.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (13:47):
It sounds like it's a nice success
story because I know even formy own health needs.
I have no concept of payers andI'm in good health.
My wife takes care of all ofthat stuff through our work and
it's not complicated, but it isto me and I've been in health
care for six years.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (14:05):
Yeah , I've been in health care for a
very long time and it is verycomplicated, it is very helpful
as they say.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (14:11):
How many other projects would you
have on the go?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (14:14):
I'll take a step back and say how do
we actually look at the workthat we do and then that will
lead to the project right.
So when we execute on workwithin the venture, as we say,
where's some of the biggestproblems to solve across the
health care ecosystem, that canalso enable us to further our
strategic objectives anddepending on those areas we
currently have six areas, that'swhere doing thematic research
(14:35):
on right.
So out of the six areas that weare focused on, we'll execute
research on those areas,specifically within the venture
space and also looking at whatare incumbents doing.
And then out of those six areas, we'll say OK, are these
companies that make sense for usto invest in?
Are these companies you want tobe launch partners to and are
these companies that we want tojust partner with?
(14:57):
Currently, I'm looking at oversix plus areas and there's
probably over a dozen companiesin my backlog that I'm kind of
going through so constantly.
The pipeline is very large andyou're always dwindling it down,
especially within the venturespace.
You're always looking at a lotof different opportunities and
you want to say how is theopportunity that you're finding
(15:18):
from a strategic perspectiveright?
Because I'm not a traditionalventure capitalist.
We focus on the strategicaspect of things.
How can we partner withcompanies to truly enable us to
meet our objectives of enablingpeople to live an age well in
their homes, and how can weinvest in solutions that enable
people to do that?
Jeff Howell, Director of G (15:37):
What do you think is one thing that
doesn't get enough attentionwhen it comes to in-home care?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (15:42):
Do I only have to pick one thing,
jeff.
So one thing that I do want tohighlight that doesn't get
attention when it comes toin-home care are home health
deserts.
Have you ever heard of thatconcept before?
I have.
Yes, I have.
So, for the listeners, homehealth deserts are low income
communities where staffing isvery hard and folks don't have
(16:03):
adequate access to home healthcare and because they don't have
adequate access to home healthcare, they're not able to have
their needs met.
At VNSL, we see the signs ofserving our patients and members
and we know that it doesn't getenough attention.
So when you think of homehealth in general, with a New
York City, over 50% of homehealth referrals don't get met.
(16:26):
Within the Bronx, it's a thirdof that, and I believe that
that's an opportunity for us tolook at from an ecosystem
perspective and that's anopportunity for us to actually
say how can we actually givepeople adequate access to health
care when they need it?
And I believe everyone shouldalways have access to health
(16:46):
care, which is why I deeply careabout this specific topic and
this issue that I don't believegets enough light.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (16:52):
Yeah , and the concept of the home
health deserts.
I think most people's mindsautomatically go to thinking
about a geographic barrier, thatit's a rural issue where
there's no hospitals anywherenearby.
But it's probably more of afinancial issue.
It's really just about whetheror not you're getting access or
not.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS He (17:11):
Correct and I'm so happy you brought
that up, because it's not justabout being in rural areas.
That's another big problem tosolve.
Right, it's how do you getaccess to rural areas?
But it can be in rural or urbanareas, but the lack of access
is the issue, and that isbecause there isn't enough
staffing to meet the needs, andit's a problem.
And if we want to drivemeaningful change across the
(17:33):
ecosystem, we have to be able togive people access to health
care everywhere.
When it comes to health caredeserts, it is where it's more
low income, it is where it'stypically minority backgrounds,
and that is where we need todrive change.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (17:50):
And then I think there's another
dimension to it in that peoplethink of care as like a hospital
visit, but really it's thinkabout the health deserts version
of like early stage care, wherethe social determinants of
health and everything that'supstream from a hospital visit
is really more important thanjust a hospital.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (18:10):
Not only is it more important, it's
already to focus, because if wedon't focus it, everyone's
going to end up in the hospital,where it's extremely costly and
we don't need to be in thehospital.
In New York specifically,there's about 7 million ED
visits that don't need to be inthe ED.
They could have beenpreventable by getting access in
(18:30):
lower cost settings.
So a lot of folks will pick upthe phone and call 911, and I
can share this from personalexperience that don't need to go
to the hospital, but they'reafraid.
They don't know how to accessthe system.
They don't know what to do.
And what's your first line ofdefense when you don't know what
to do?
Call 911.
(18:51):
An EMT's job when you call 911is to transport the patient to
the hospital, and that isanother big problem to solve
when it comes to healthcare.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (19:03):
As you well know, you've been on
those front lines and you'veseen it all.
Yeah, it's funny how thecampaign for brand awareness for
911, everyone knows it, but youcan be a little bit too
successful in it beingeveryone's crutch.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (19:18):
Yes , yes, and you should access it.
I'm not saying we shouldn'taccess the emergency system.
We should access it.
But we should also have a lotof focus on preventive care.
We should have a lot of focuson shifting what I say
healthcare left Within thestates.
I say we're a sick care system,not a health care system,
because you're waiting till it'sa little too late and then
you're going into the ED, intothe hospitals.
(19:39):
When you really look at it froma data perspective, we're
spending four trillion dollars ayear on healthcare.
It's a lot of money across thenation and the majority of that
is spent on high needspopulation, and that's being
spent on high populationsbecause we haven't shifted
healthcare left.
If you shift healthcare leftand be more preventive in
(20:00):
healthcare, you'll shift all thecosts left as well, but that
means change across thehealthcare ecosystem.
All right.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (20:07):
I'm on.
It's crystal ball time.
Give me a prediction forhealthcare in the US for 2024.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS (20:13):
Prediction for healthcare in 2024.
I'll give you a few.
The first thing is I believethat we're going to see more
consolidation in the space, andI know that's not something that
we always want to hear, butback in 2022, 50% of home care
and hospice businesses were allacquired by private equity firms
.
When we look at last year, wesaw some very large acquisitions
(20:35):
from CVS and United Health whenit comes to different with the
home health.
So I believe we're going toconstantly see consolidation in
the space, and there's over400,000 home health agencies
across the US, so it is veryfragmented, which is why I
believe we're going to see this.
The second thing and this iswhat I think is extremely
(20:55):
exciting is I believe that thattechnology, and specifically AI,
is going to enable us to trulytransform healthcare.
The question is how quicklywill we adopt the technology
that is being developed?
But as someone who spends a lotof his time in the venture
world, who is seeing a lot ofthe technologies and the
innovations being developed inhealthcare, I can tell you that
(21:16):
what I'm seeing is prettyamazing, and what I believe is
years out is how can youleverage AI for clinical care?
I think that's still out, butout of the four trillion dollars
that the US spends onhealthcare, about a billion of
those dollars go to adminexpenses back end efficiencies,
(21:37):
and I think that AI has a lot ofroom to play to make us more
effective and efficient.
I believe leveraging thesetechnologies is going to be
better for the clinicianexperience and we have a huge
clinical workforce challengewhen it comes to healthcare and
if you can build thesetechnologies in a meaningful way
, you can actually then buildthem into clinical workflows to
(21:57):
make the clinicians' liveseasier when they're supporting
patients and enabling people towork at the top of license,
which is extremely importantwhen it comes to healthcare.
So I think we're going to see alot when it comes to just
technological innovation, andwe're already starting to read a
lot about it.
I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening have have been on chat
(22:18):
GBT.
If you haven't do it, it's.
It is actually really reallycool and fascinating to see
where we can go, but that's justthe beginning.
I think there's a lot of changethat we're going to see in the
in 24 and beyond.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (22:31):
Well , it's funny because I just
wrote down chat GBT before yousaid it, and my feeling is that
what the pandemic did for Zoom,chat GBT is going to do for
large language models, wherepeople type something in, they
ask a question, they get aresponse, and that's what I
think is going to drive theadoption that these are our next
(22:53):
generation tools that are hereto make everyone's life easier,
as long as we use them in theright ways.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (22:58):
No, I completely agree, it will
impact them that way.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (23:02):
Amon , I'll get you out of here on
this last question.
Give us a reason to beoptimistic about the future of
care and the place that ourclients call home.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (23:10):
I'm very optimistic about the
future of care and the placethat our clients call home.
When you look at COVID-19, Ithink it brought a lot of light
into home health.
I think it brought a lot oflight to work that we do every
single day.
You can't argue with the data.
Home health is a lot more costeffective.
And you can't argue with wherepeople want to be.
Over 80% of older adults want tolive in age well, in their
(23:33):
homes.
In the US, over 10,000 peopleturn 65 every single day.
When you look at the data, moreand more people are aging and
people want to age in place.
We know that.
So there's a lot ofopportunities for us to actually
bring more care into the home.
And I think we're just at thebeginning, because we're just at
the beginning of saying, hey,what does it look like to bring
(23:55):
health care into the home?
What does it look like toactually bring holistic care
into the home?
There's so much opportunity.
And then you tie that with allthe technology stuff that we
talked about earlier.
It gets even more and moreexciting to what we can actually
do in the home.
And that's what makes meexcited to come to work every
single day.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (24:13):
Yeah , and I love the concept, the
story told about helpful, wherewe have this rise of the family
caregiver right and it's likethe staffing shortage is a
crisis that's not going to goaway anytime soon and even if it
was solved immediately, thefamily still needs to be there
to support the aging population.
I'm inspired to hear that youguys are working with a team
(24:36):
that is trying to consolidateand simplify a pain that
everyone has across the wholespectrum about how complex
everything is.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (24:45):
And that's what we all need to do,
right.
We all need to work together toreally simplify the experience.
As you mentioned, I believe inthe power of partnerships.
I believe in the power ofworking with other people to
achieve a common mission, acommon goal.
I always say that if I try todo something on my own, it's
going to take me a whole lotlonger to get it done and I'm
probably not going to be thatgreat at it, because I'm only
good at what I'm good at.
But if I bring in other peopleto actually work with me,
(25:08):
especially when you have thatcommon vision, well, you can
achieve it.
It could turn out better thanyou ever had.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (25:14):
Yeah for sure.
Well, amon, I have to say youhave been the most presidential
person that's come on thispodcast.
I'm going to give one moreshadow to Parcipany Hills High
School former president AmonShaw.
Thanks for coming on today.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (25:27):
Thank you, Jeff.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (25:28):
Home Health 360 is presented by
AlayaCare and hosted by JeffHowell and Erin Vallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (25:43):
And last but not least, if you
liked this episode and want tolearn more about all things
home-based care, you can exploreall of our episodes at
alayacare.
com/h omehealth360 or visit uson your favorite podcast
platform.
Healthcare is just so, so complicated.
I spend all of my time inhealthcare and I have trouble
accessing the healthcare systemand if I don't know what to do
or how to get a PCP, or how togo to the doctor or how to go to
a specialist, I couldn'timagine what it is for someone
who doesn't have as much contentwith the healthcare system that
I do.
So we really want to make itsimple to understand.
(00:20):
The second is easy to access.
Access is a very importantthing in healthcare across our
nation.
And then the third is beingmeaningful in those outcomes.
So when we look at thesepartnerships, those are the
three buckets that we're lookingat them on, but everything that
we do really discorrelate.
Jeff Howell, Director o (00:44):
Welcome everyone to another episode of
Home Health 360, where we speakwith leaders and home care and
home health from across theglobe.
Joining us today is Aman Shah,the former student body
president of Parcipany HillsHigh School and current Vice
President of New Ventures andStrategic Partnerships at VNS
Health in New York, where hefocuses on investing in
(01:08):
companies that make healthcaresimple to understand, easy to
access and, most of all,contributing to the mission of
helping to deliver better healthcomes for all.
Aman, thank you for being withus today.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (01:21):
Thank you, jeff.
We really had to go there.
The high school backgroundit'll never leave me, but I love
it.
I love it.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (01:27):
I had to merge our pre-recording
conversation about yourdedication to being the school
body president from, I guess,the age of 16 through 18.
And I love the fact that, ofall the guests I've ever had on,
you have been the one that'sbeen most dedicated to the arts
and science of public speaking.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (01:48):
I definitely try.
I think I did it a lot moreearlier on.
I'm not going to say in mycareer, but my child's right.
Then I do in my career today,before we hit the record button,
we were talking about howpeople are more afraid to speak
publicly than to die.
When I heard that when I was inthe seventh grade, I was like I
really need to start doingthings that I'm uncomfortable
with, and that is publicspeaking and the ability to
(02:12):
communicate and how wecommunicate is super, super
important.
I often say that it isn't whatwe say, but it's how we say it.
That is so important and theway we actually communicate can
be extremely effective and drivechange in what we care about.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (02:30):
Yeah , the person giving the eulogy
would rather be in the coffin.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (02:34):
Yes .
Jeff Howell, Director of G (02:35):
That is very, very true.
Well, VNS Health is a hugeorganization.
Give us a little bit of senseof the size and scope of the
company, and how did you makeyour way into the organization?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (02:46):
Yeah , VNS Health, for those that
aren't familiar, is one of thenation's largest home and
community based nonprofitorganizations.
On any given day, we have about50,000 people under our care
and, as you said, VNS Health isa very large organization and
there is a lot of components toour organization.
You're a payer and a provider.
On the provider side, we have alot of different components
(03:09):
that include traditional homehealth, personal care, hospice
and behavioral health, and whatis really amazing about all of
this is that everything we do isin the home and in the
community.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (03:22):
And how did you make your way over
there?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (03:24):
So I started my career in
healthcare when I was 16 yearsold.
When I was 16, I asked my momto drive me to Parsiupani
Volunteer Ambulance Squad.
So I mean a lot of trips downmemory lane as we had this
conversation and I joined to bea volunteer EMT.
I spent over seven years on theback of an ambulance actively
(03:46):
and down over 700 911 calls, andthat experience is what led me
to fall in love with healthcare.
People often talk about bootson the ground experience when it
comes to home health andhealthcare and, jeff, I can tell
you I've had a lot of boots onthe ground experience when it
comes to healthcare, and I oftensay that I have seen some of
the best of our healthcareecosystem and some of the worst
(04:08):
of our healthcare ecosystem byresponding to all the wrong
calls and meeting with patientswho didn't have health insurance
or were scared to seek care andgo into inpatient settings.
And I have to continuouslyexplain that I'm a volunteer.
Everything I'm doing is notgonna cost you.
I'm not gonna ask for any ofyour information.
I'm here to help.
And when I went to college andthen graduated, I spent my
(04:31):
entire career in consulting, andthe more I've rose in
consulting, the further andfurther I got from the patient
and I spent the majority of thattime consulting for healthcare.
But something was missing andwhat I believe was missing for
me was that experience I hadwhen I was 16 on the back of
that ambulance.
So when I learned about the NSHealth and learned about an
agency that delivers care inpeople's home, I fell in love
(04:56):
with it.
And the more I learned about it, the more excited I got from
the opportunity to do what I doevery single day and I can say
that I love what I do and I lovethe impact and the mission that
the organization has that I getto be a part of 700 volunteer
911 calls.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (05:12):
I don't think I'll ever meet
anyone else who has done thatall while being student body
president.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (05:18):
As well, we're gonna have this
common theme going back andforth across this conversation,
aren't we?
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (05:23):
And I did notice your banner
background image on yourLinkedIn profile is an EMT sort
of going by and in high speed,which I thought was really cool
visual.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (05:32):
It's that experience has really
brought me to where I am today.
I often say that what you doearly on, that experience
compounds later on in life andif it wasn't for me being a
first responder and me being onthe back of the ambulance and
having that experience, I don'tknow if I'd be in healthcare
today and I don't know if Iwould care as much as I care and
(05:53):
how curious I am to reallydrive change across this
ecosystem.
Jeff Howell, Director of Grow (05:57):
I think you probably, deep down,
really wanted to get intohealthcare, which was what led
you to that volunteer experienceto begin with.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS (06:03):
Absolutely From that experience when I was
younger.
It's like you always want toknow what to do when there is an
emergency, and I never knewwhat to do when there is an
emergency and you have twooptions either sit in the
background or take action.
And me and my best friend,whose name was Steven, we joined
it together.
So we did this together and webecame EMTs together and we were
(06:25):
on the ambulance together.
We were 20 years old, leading911 calls in parasypony and I
got to learn firsthand about alot of the problems that we have
across the healthcare industry,and problems mere opportunities
to make things better.
When I was younger, I used tosay that I'm gonna change the
whole industry.
I wanted to hit a home run andthe more I've learned about
(06:47):
healthcare, I'm trying to makelittle changes and little
differences, because thoselittle differences can lead to
meaningful impact down the line.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (06:54):
How long were you in EMT?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (06:55):
Still , I am a certified EMT in the
state of New Jersey.
I never gave it up.
I actively rode for over sevenyears.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (07:01):
So between that and the 700 calls
during volunteer, you've seen alot.
You've seen it all.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (07:06):
I have responded to numerous car
accidents.
I have done CPR on my cellphone patients.
I've given Narcan to moreoverdoses than I can think of.
I have seen it all.
Jeff Howell, Director of (07:16):
Right on the front lines.
VNS Health is a behemoth and Iwould imagine that once you hit
that size of 50,000 patients,that it's the Titanic and you've
carved out a niche for yourselfthat's much more nimble.
Can you give us a sense as towhat your department is now?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (07:32):
Yes , so, as you mentioned earlier,
I have the honor of serving asthe vice president of New
Ventures and StrategicPartnerships, this division.
Our vision is to really supportour members and our patients
and enable them to live inH-Well and their homes, which is
where they want to live inH-Well.
The way we do that is really,really unique and I love the way
we do that.
There's three main things thatdivision does.
(07:53):
The first thing we do is weinvest in early stage companies
and we invest in these companiesto really further the mission
and vision of our organization.
The second thing we do is weinvest in the H-Well is we
co-launch businesses.
So we work with entrepreneursthat are looking to drive change
(08:13):
across the healthcare ecosystemand we work with them to bring
these businesses to life and myentire background is in product,
so I often say we go from zeroto one with these entrepreneurs,
okay.
The third thing we do isventure partnerships.
We work with venture backedcompanies and create meaningful
partnerships to really drivechange across the healthcare
(08:36):
ecosystem.
There is a lot of great thingsthat startups bring to large
organizations and we createmeaningful partnerships with
them to drive change.
That's going to be the commonthing that I say to the
healthcare ecosystem until ourmembers and our patients.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (08:52):
And is there an equal balance of
these three buckets?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (08:56):
There is an equal balance of these
three buckets.
They all overlap with oneanother as well.
If we're investing in a company, we want to make sure that
we're investing in a companythat we can provide meaningful
input to and we can really helpenable that company to go from
that zero to one or enable thatto scale and grow.
If we're building a launchingcompany, we're going to be
partnering with that company aswell to be able to leverage it.
(09:18):
I know we're doing thesepartnerships, we're really
thinking about it to say, arethese partnerships really
enabling us to make healthcaresimple to understand?
Healthcare is just so, socomplicated.
I spend all of my time inhealthcare and I have trouble
accessing the healthcare system,and if I don't know what to do
or how to get a PCP or how to goto the doctor or how to go to a
specialist, I couldn't imaginewhat it is for someone who
(09:40):
doesn't have as much contactwith the healthcare system that
I do.
So we really want to make itsimple to understand.
The second is easy to access.
Access is a very importantthing in healthcare across our
nation.
And then the third is beingmeaningful in those outcomes.
So when we look at thesepartnerships, those are the
three buckets that we're lookingat them on, but everything that
we do really discorrelate.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (10:01):
So you have a number of projects,
some of which I think you arenot at liberty to give too many
details on.
Maybe some others you can Do.
You have a project in mind thatwe can go a little bit deep on.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (10:12):
One area that we focused on last
year is in the caregiver space.
So we in health we don't justserve our patients and members,
we serve the family and everyoneinvolved in the healthcare
journey and we know howimportant it is to involve
everyone in one person'shealthcare journey, especially
when we're talking about highneeds populations and we create
(10:34):
a partnership with a companycalled Helpful last year.
Helpful is a startup that istruly enabling the family
caregiver to understand thebenefits for a member.
Healthcare benefits is superhard to understand, super
challenging to navigate, so thisplatform takes the health plan
(10:54):
benefits, puts it into theplatform, makes it searchable
and when you search it it tellsyou how to actually access those
benefits.
The second thing Helpful does isit connects all of the medical
records into one platform.
So if you think about currentstate, imagine you have seven
different providers or sevendifferent doctors that are
saying all of those doctors willhave different EMRs, different
(11:17):
mind charts that you might loginto.
Helpful actually bringseverything together in one
location so you can see aftervisit summaries, you can see
medications, you can really havea full view and full picture of
your loved one.
And then the last thing is itdoes skills-based training.
So, as a caregiver, you wannaget smarter on the person that
you're taking care of and theperson that is under your care,
(11:39):
and it enables you to truly havethat understanding of what does
it mean if my loved one's adiabetic?
How do I take care of adiabetic?
What does it mean if someonejust had a stroke and they came
back from the hospital and nowwe have to take care of them?
Like, how do we actually dothat in a meaningful way?
So we're very excited topartner with Helpful and it's
something that we love to beclose to because we know how
(12:00):
important that is.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (12:02):
So how does Helpful interact with
the continuum of care?
So if someone goes to aphysician appointment versus if
they get an in-home healthcare,Helpful is tapped into the EMRs
that everyone's using across thespectrum Based off of the 21st
Century Cures Act that went intoplace.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (12:20):
You have to be able to pull data
into one system, so Helpful hasabout 30,000 different health
systems on its platform today,and a loved one can pull in the
information for the person thatyou're caring for through this
platform, so you don't have tohave direct integration with
every EMR.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (12:39):
It's really almost consolidating
everything into kind of a familyportal, kind of experience
Correct.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Hea (12:45):
that's one way to look at it and then,
when you have that ease ofaccess, you can see everything
in that one location.
So, to give you a very tangibleexample, I have two parents
that are aging.
My one parent has multipledoctors at Eos and Cs and right
now I have to actually log intothings separately to understand
everything that's happening.
I now have the ability to bringeverything into one platform
and see it all.
(13:06):
In addition to that, he's ontraditional Medicare, so I can
see all of his Medicare benefitsas well in that one platform
and I can start connecting dotsand drawing those trends and
over time it'll personalize withwhat I am looking for and what
I am looking to do as well.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:20):
Got it.
That is very helpful.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (13:23):
It is very helpful.
The CEO Neap the companyhelpful.
You're the great guy and I loveworking with him.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:29):
And is that bucket one early stage
investments where you guys foundthese guys and are supporting
them, or is it something thatyou guys did at colon?
It's bucket three.
It's a partnership.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (13:38):
We're partnering with that company.
So that is bucket three.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (13:40):
How long has helpful been around we
?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (13:42):
went live with helpful back in
September of last year.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (13:47):
It sounds like it's a nice success
story because I know even formy own health needs.
I have no concept of payers andI'm in good health.
My wife takes care of all ofthat stuff through our work and
it's not complicated, but it isto me and I've been in health
care for six years.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (14:05):
Yeah , I've been in health care for a
very long time and it is verycomplicated, it is very helpful
as they say.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (14:11):
How many other projects would you
have on the go?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Healt (14:14):
I'll take a step back and say how do
we actually look at the workthat we do and then that will
lead to the project right.
So when we execute on workwithin the venture, as we say,
where's some of the biggestproblems to solve across the
health care ecosystem, that canalso enable us to further our
strategic objectives anddepending on those areas we
currently have six areas, that'swhere doing thematic research
(14:35):
on right.
So out of the six areas that weare focused on, we'll execute
research on those areas,specifically within the venture
space and also looking at whatare incumbents doing.
And then out of those six areas, we'll say OK, are these
companies that make sense for usto invest in?
Are these companies you want tobe launch partners to and are
these companies that we want tojust partner with?
(14:57):
Currently, I'm looking at oversix plus areas and there's
probably over a dozen companiesin my backlog that I'm kind of
going through so constantly.
The pipeline is very large andyou're always dwindling it down,
especially within the venturespace.
You're always looking at a lotof different opportunities and
you want to say how is theopportunity that you're finding
(15:18):
from a strategic perspectiveright?
Because I'm not a traditionalventure capitalist.
We focus on the strategicaspect of things.
How can we partner withcompanies to truly enable us to
meet our objectives of enablingpeople to live an age well in
their homes, and how can weinvest in solutions that enable
people to do that?
Jeff Howell, Director of G (15:37):
What do you think is one thing that
doesn't get enough attentionwhen it comes to in-home care?
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (15:42):
Do I only have to pick one thing,
jeff.
So one thing that I do want tohighlight that doesn't get
attention when it comes toin-home care are home health
deserts.
Have you ever heard of thatconcept before?
I have.
Yes, I have.
So, for the listeners, homehealth deserts are low income
communities where staffing isvery hard and folks don't have
(16:03):
adequate access to home healthcare and because they don't have
adequate access to home healthcare, they're not able to have
their needs met.
At VNSL, we see the signs ofserving our patients and members
and we know that it doesn't getenough attention.
So when you think of homehealth in general, with a New
York City, over 50% of homehealth referrals don't get met.
(16:26):
Within the Bronx, it's a thirdof that, and I believe that
that's an opportunity for us tolook at from an ecosystem
perspective and that's anopportunity for us to actually
say how can we actually givepeople adequate access to health
care when they need it?
And I believe everyone shouldalways have access to health
(16:46):
care, which is why I deeply careabout this specific topic and
this issue that I don't believegets enough light.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (16:52):
Yeah , and the concept of the home
health deserts.
I think most people's mindsautomatically go to thinking
about a geographic barrier, thatit's a rural issue where
there's no hospitals anywherenearby.
But it's probably more of afinancial issue.
It's really just about whetheror not you're getting access or
not.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS He (17:11):
Correct and I'm so happy you brought
that up, because it's not justabout being in rural areas.
That's another big problem tosolve.
Right, it's how do you getaccess to rural areas?
But it can be in rural or urbanareas, but the lack of access
is the issue, and that isbecause there isn't enough
staffing to meet the needs, andit's a problem.
And if we want to drivemeaningful change across the
(17:33):
ecosystem, we have to be able togive people access to health
care everywhere.
When it comes to health caredeserts, it is where it's more
low income, it is where it'stypically minority backgrounds,
and that is where we need todrive change.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (17:50):
And then I think there's another
dimension to it in that peoplethink of care as like a hospital
visit, but really it's thinkabout the health deserts version
of like early stage care, wherethe social determinants of
health and everything that'supstream from a hospital visit
is really more important thanjust a hospital.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (18:10):
Not only is it more important, it's
already to focus, because if wedon't focus it, everyone's
going to end up in the hospital,where it's extremely costly and
we don't need to be in thehospital.
In New York specifically,there's about 7 million ED
visits that don't need to be inthe ED.
They could have beenpreventable by getting access in
(18:30):
lower cost settings.
So a lot of folks will pick upthe phone and call 911, and I
can share this from personalexperience that don't need to go
to the hospital, but they'reafraid.
They don't know how to accessthe system.
They don't know what to do.
And what's your first line ofdefense when you don't know what
to do?
Call 911.
(18:51):
An EMT's job when you call 911is to transport the patient to
the hospital, and that isanother big problem to solve
when it comes to healthcare.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gro (19:03):
As you well know, you've been on
those front lines and you'veseen it all.
Yeah, it's funny how thecampaign for brand awareness for
911, everyone knows it, but youcan be a little bit too
successful in it beingeveryone's crutch.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (19:18):
Yes , yes, and you should access it.
I'm not saying we shouldn'taccess the emergency system.
We should access it.
But we should also have a lotof focus on preventive care.
We should have a lot of focuson shifting what I say
healthcare left Within thestates.
I say we're a sick care system,not a health care system,
because you're waiting till it'sa little too late and then
you're going into the ED, intothe hospitals.
(19:39):
When you really look at it froma data perspective, we're
spending four trillion dollars ayear on healthcare.
It's a lot of money across thenation and the majority of that
is spent on high needspopulation, and that's being
spent on high populationsbecause we haven't shifted
healthcare left.
If you shift healthcare leftand be more preventive in
(20:00):
healthcare, you'll shift all thecosts left as well, but that
means change across thehealthcare ecosystem.
All right.
Jeff Howell, Director of Gr (20:07):
I'm on.
It's crystal ball time.
Give me a prediction forhealthcare in the US for 2024.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS (20:13):
Prediction for healthcare in 2024.
I'll give you a few.
The first thing is I believethat we're going to see more
consolidation in the space, andI know that's not something that
we always want to hear, butback in 2022, 50% of home care
and hospice businesses were allacquired by private equity firms
.
When we look at last year, wesaw some very large acquisitions
(20:35):
from CVS and United Health whenit comes to different with the
home health.
So I believe we're going toconstantly see consolidation in
the space, and there's over400,000 home health agencies
across the US, so it is veryfragmented, which is why I
believe we're going to see this.
The second thing and this iswhat I think is extremely
(20:55):
exciting is I believe that thattechnology, and specifically AI,
is going to enable us to trulytransform healthcare.
The question is how quicklywill we adopt the technology
that is being developed?
But as someone who spends a lotof his time in the venture
world, who is seeing a lot ofthe technologies and the
innovations being developed inhealthcare, I can tell you that
(21:16):
what I'm seeing is prettyamazing, and what I believe is
years out is how can youleverage AI for clinical care?
I think that's still out, butout of the four trillion dollars
that the US spends onhealthcare, about a billion of
those dollars go to adminexpenses back end efficiencies,
(21:37):
and I think that AI has a lot ofroom to play to make us more
effective and efficient.
I believe leveraging thesetechnologies is going to be
better for the clinicianexperience and we have a huge
clinical workforce challengewhen it comes to healthcare and
if you can build thesetechnologies in a meaningful way
, you can actually then buildthem into clinical workflows to
(21:57):
make the clinicians' liveseasier when they're supporting
patients and enabling people towork at the top of license,
which is extremely importantwhen it comes to healthcare.
So I think we're going to see alot when it comes to just
technological innovation, andwe're already starting to read a
lot about it.
I'm sure a lot of peoplelistening have have been on chat
(22:18):
GBT.
If you haven't do it, it's.
It is actually really reallycool and fascinating to see
where we can go, but that's justthe beginning.
I think there's a lot of changethat we're going to see in the
in 24 and beyond.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (22:31):
Well , it's funny because I just
wrote down chat GBT before yousaid it, and my feeling is that
what the pandemic did for Zoom,chat GBT is going to do for
large language models, wherepeople type something in, they
ask a question, they get aresponse, and that's what I
think is going to drive theadoption that these are our next
(22:53):
generation tools that are hereto make everyone's life easier,
as long as we use them in theright ways.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (22:58):
No, I completely agree, it will
impact them that way.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (23:02):
Amon , I'll get you out of here on
this last question.
Give us a reason to beoptimistic about the future of
care and the place that ourclients call home.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (23:10):
I'm very optimistic about the
future of care and the placethat our clients call home.
When you look at COVID-19, Ithink it brought a lot of light
into home health.
I think it brought a lot oflight to work that we do every
single day.
You can't argue with the data.
Home health is a lot more costeffective.
And you can't argue with wherepeople want to be.
Over 80% of older adults want tolive in age well, in their
(23:33):
homes.
In the US, over 10,000 peopleturn 65 every single day.
When you look at the data, moreand more people are aging and
people want to age in place.
We know that.
So there's a lot ofopportunities for us to actually
bring more care into the home.
And I think we're just at thebeginning, because we're just at
the beginning of saying, hey,what does it look like to bring
(23:55):
health care into the home?
What does it look like toactually bring holistic care
into the home?
There's so much opportunity.
And then you tie that with allthe technology stuff that we
talked about earlier.
It gets even more and moreexciting to what we can actually
do in the home.
And that's what makes meexcited to come to work every
single day.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (24:13):
Yeah , and I love the concept, the
story told about helpful, wherewe have this rise of the family
caregiver right and it's likethe staffing shortage is a
crisis that's not going to goaway anytime soon and even if it
was solved immediately, thefamily still needs to be there
to support the aging population.
I'm inspired to hear that youguys are working with a team
(24:36):
that is trying to consolidateand simplify a pain that
everyone has across the wholespectrum about how complex
everything is.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (24:45):
And that's what we all need to do,
right.
We all need to work together toreally simplify the experience.
As you mentioned, I believe inthe power of partnerships.
I believe in the power ofworking with other people to
achieve a common mission, acommon goal.
I always say that if I try todo something on my own, it's
going to take me a whole lotlonger to get it done and I'm
probably not going to be thatgreat at it, because I'm only
good at what I'm good at.
But if I bring in other peopleto actually work with me,
(25:08):
especially when you have thatcommon vision, well, you can
achieve it.
It could turn out better thanyou ever had.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (25:14):
Yeah for sure.
Well, amon, I have to say youhave been the most presidential
person that's come on thispodcast.
I'm going to give one moreshadow to Parcipany Hills High
School former president AmonShaw.
Thanks for coming on today.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Heal (25:27):
Thank you, Jeff.
Jeff Howell, Director of G (25:28):
Home Health 360 is presented by
AlayaCare and hosted by JeffHowell and Erin Vallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Aman Shah, VP of VNS Health (25:43):
And last but not least, if you
liked this episode and want tolearn more about all things
home-based care, you can exploreall of our episodes at
alayacare.
com/h omehealth360 or visit uson your favorite podcast
platform.
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