March 13, 2024 • 28 mins
Envision a world where technology solutions address current pain points and preempt future challenges, empowering home care agencies to navigate the digital landscape confidently. In this episode, Ryan Crawford and Alex Skinner, the Value Creation consulting team from AlayaCare, illuminate the path for home care agencies to survive and thrive in this digital revolution. Tune in as they unveil the future of data utilization and proactive management of technology change, weighing the actual 'cost of waiting' against the benefits of early adoption. With actionable strategies at your disposal and a fresh perspective on technological change, this episode is more than a conversation—it's a roadmap to maximizing ROI and catalyzing growth in your organization.
If you liked this episode and want to learn more about all things home-based care, you can explore all our episodes at alayacare.com/homehealth360.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Skinner (00:00):
This is now about enhancing human capabilities.
How can we make peopleessentially more productive?
How can we enable more hours tobe scheduled by an individual
by using technology to perhapsfind the best caregiver for a
particular visit, and do thatall in bulk?
So, in our sense, when wediscuss improving business
outcomes, the most importantquestion that we try to
(00:20):
understand at first is where arethey coming from?
What is the current state, andthen try to look for incremental
value that will be realisticbut also be beneficial to the
organization there.
Erin Vallier (00:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Home Help 360
podcast, where we talk to home-based care professionals from
around the globe.
I'm your host, Erin Vallier,and today I am joined by two
special guests Ryan Crawford andAlex Skinner.
Ryan leads the value creationconsulting team at AlayaCare.
(01:01):
He has a wealth of experience,including developing strategy
for small and large scaledigital transformation
initiatives focused on creatingincremental business value.
Additionally, he's evenco-created a home care tech
startup, and now he works withAlayaCare clients and future
partners to project the benefitsthat AlayaCare unlocks for
(01:23):
their businesses.
Alex has a background inpsychology and he's been with
AlayaCare for roughly five yearsin a variety of roles.
He's led countless clientimplementations, served as a
product expert for some ofAlayaCare's largest partners
across all markets and, mostrecently, he works closely with
(01:44):
Ryan, capturing andcommunicating the value of a
transition to AlayaCare.
Welcome to the show, gentlemen.
Ryan Crawford (01:51):
Thanks for having us.
Erin Vallier (01:54):
I'm super excited to chat with you guys today
because I'm having theopportunity to work with you
personally for the first time inthe coming months, and so I'm
probably going to learn a lottoday as well.
But before we hop into thetopic of value creation, I'd
love it if you could share withthe audience just how the value
creation team engages withAlayaCare customers and
(02:16):
prospects.
Ryan Crawford (02:17):
Yeah, of course, Erin happy to.
The value creation offering isa new one.
At AlayaCare, we're coming upon a year in existence and,
simply put, we work with ourcustomers and our partners to
try and capture other business,and that can take shape in many
different ways depending on theservices they provide, the
markets they operate in.
But ultimately we recognizeit's a big shift when adopting a
(02:40):
new technology and making surethat having a tight linkage to
how your technology is going topower your business or solve
some of your business problemsis very important.
So capturing and communicatingand quantifying that is really
how we work with our customers.
Erin Vallier (02:58):
Awesome, Alex.
Did you have anything youwanted to add to that?
Alex Skinner (03:01):
I think it's well put.
There's certainly a number ofphases that we go through to
narrow down and really focus inon what areas of value are most
applicable to different partnersand different stages that
they're at.
But I think we can chat moreabout that as we get into things
.
Erin Vallier (03:14):
Awesome when you talk about value creation.
I know that your team goes inand does an assessment and it's
very technical.
You have a lot of differentareas that you look at.
I'll start with Alex.
I'm hoping that you can sharewith the audience just how you
go about approaching those valueassessments with the client.
Alex Skinner (03:34):
It's a great question and the broad strokes
approach is we want to startlarger and narrow in.
So we have our first phasebeing a strategy phase, which is
where we want to sit down withthe senior leaders of the
organization, really talk aboutwhat they want to achieve maybe
in the next three to five yearsgoals.
What's on the horizon, how arewe getting there?
What's the focus currently?
Because that really frames thewhole project and the angles
(03:55):
that we need to observe andensure we align with.
After that we get into a littlebit more depth where we'll
conduct assessments, and this iswhere we sit down with more
operational leaders and discoverhow things are working
currently.
What are the pain points, whatare the areas, how much time are
they spending on certainprocesses, what are the aspects
they would love to change ifthey could, and are there ways
that we can support that?
So we look to then mirror andquantify essentially those
(04:19):
components themselves and thenultimately align that in a nice
package that will flow nicelyfrom the initial goals into
these quantifiable metrics, thenjustify them with the features
that perhaps might align best tosolve those problems and then
deliver the impact of what thatmight unlock, should all of that
work effectively.
There certainly are levels thatwe'll embed into that a little
(04:40):
bit further too, things likeunderstanding change management
curves.
So benefits don't get realizedtypically on day one, but it
takes some time to recognizethose after the fact.
So the whole concept of the Jcurve are things that we will
factor into the assessments aswell.
So, in a nutshell, we try tostart broad strokes, get a
little bit more focused and thenreally deliver on how we might
receive those impacts or how anorganization might feel them
(05:02):
tangibly.
Erin Vallier (05:03):
I love that approach.
So you get with the leadership,get the vision and then you
really get into the weeds withall of the subject matter
experts, figure out what they'redoing today and then see how
that actually translates into alike your software.
And I think for me, what Iheard you say that's cool is
it's not like a plug in somenumbers and here's an ROI, it's
(05:25):
an actual in depth evaluation ofthe business and it translates
into okay, this process lookslike this process in a like here
.
So you get a mapping.
Is that current?
Alex Skinner (05:38):
Yeah, in some ways .
So if we find an opportunityfor enhancements, then we'll
outline on our tables.
We'll say, okay, this isperhaps a current pain, this is
perhaps what the solution wouldlook like.
This is the feature within alike here and, based on your
current state and where you'reheaded, this might be sort of
the recognizable percentage, andmaybe it's 20% better, 10%
better, and that's where we sortof co-create these principles
(06:01):
throughout the whole assessment.
So it really is designed to bea collaborative experience, one
where we're both aligning on theapproach and on the measures
that are going to be put in.
Erin Vallier (06:10):
Oh, that's wonderful.
How do you guys figure out whatthe enhanced mode or the
enhanced functionality is goingto be?
An estimate of how muchimprovement they can get?
We're going to improve this by20% or this by 5%.
How do you arrive at thosenumbers?
Ryan Crawford (06:28):
Yeah, we did that a couple of different ways.
The first way is we work withmany different customers who've
come from many different currentstates, and so we have a set of
benchmark data that we'velooked at to say, typically a
customer should be able to seethese types of benefits across
certain categories.
But that's a range.
Let's take scheduling, forexample.
It might be a fairly largerange.
It could be 10% to 60%improvement in scheduling, and
(06:52):
that range really comes from theunique starting point of a
customer's circumstance.
If you're coming off of a papersolution, the added benefit of a
technology like Liacare ismassive.
If you're coming from a moremodern technology solution, it
might be more of an incrementalbenefit.
And so we've created thesebenefit ranges that we can
(07:13):
calibrate a recommendation up ordown depending on your current
state, and as a first cut we'llcome in with where we think it
might fall.
However, going back to thepoint Alex made around the
co-creation is we might say wefeel 30% is achievable in this
case, but after you see thedemos you might think 40% is
(07:33):
achievable, or realistically orconservatively it's 20%, and so
our goal is to make somethingthat feels credible and
achievable together.
But the foundation is based onour industry experience, working
with customers who've migratedmany different starting points
and creating the benchmarkranges.
Erin Vallier (07:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love your answer too.
It's not just made up, it'srooted in science.
It's rooted in a lot of casestudies.
It's rooted in a lot ofevidence.
So the recipient can feelpretty confident that we're
speaking truthfully here in ourengagements.
Ryan Crawford (08:09):
Yeah, and if I could just add, aaron, the
recipient also gets anopportunity to vet it.
They understand their currentstate and they get to see what
the future looks like in lifecare, and so they'll actually
get to see oh, do I see thesavings?
Do I get to see where thosesteps are eliminated or where
that automation plays a criticalrole?
Hopefully by the end of it theycan actually believe those
things to be true.
Erin Vallier (08:30):
And you guys describe for me and your
experience and improvingbusiness outcomes within
home-based care sector.
What do you see in theengagements that you've done?
Alex Skinner (08:40):
Yeah, that's a really good question, Erin,
because that really varies trulybased on the starting point of
the organization.
In doing a lot of our analysesas an organization, I've
grappled with this idea of amaturity model Some
organizations that are maybe ona legacy tech provider or maybe
they're operating on paper.
What they might be aiming foris perhaps a more digitization
focused transformation.
(09:00):
Really, what they're trying todo is get off paper, get onto
electronic tools.
That would be one big area ofopportunity, like we talked
about.
There's a massive benefit thatcould come from that.
Once those folks are there,maybe we're engaging with a
different organization.
The second level of maturityhere might be including
automations Instead of havinghumans doing these interactions,
following up, saying hey, didyou clock out of your visit?
(09:21):
Or checking for availability,things like that.
That's where we can introduceautomations as at second level.
The third one really is gettingto the most advanced level in
this maturity model.
That's where AI can really comeinto play.
Once you have the digitizationin place, you have the
automations in place.
This is now about enhancinghuman capabilities.
How can we make peopleessentially more productive?
How can we enable more hours tobe scheduled by an individual?
(09:44):
By using technology to perhapsfind the best caregiver for a
particular visit, and do thatall in bulk In our sense.
When we discuss improvingbusiness outcomes, the most
important question that we tryto understand at first is where
are they coming from?
What is the current state?
Then try to look forincremental value that will be
realistic but also be beneficialto the organization there.
Erin Vallier (10:07):
It really does sound like it depends on the
maturity of the organizationyou're working with, where they
are today and where they want tobe.
Electronic is much differentfrom electronic massive to.
I want to be fully automated.
Is that catchy right?
Okay?
Alex Skinner (10:23):
Absolutely.
It's quite difficult as well tointroduce something like
scheduling optimization whenfolks are maybe working on paper
, because it's quite a large gapgoing to that point.
We really want to talk aboutthe right stepwise motion to
share these benefits.
Erin Vallier (10:39):
It sounds like you help architect the right fit
solution for each uniqueorganization.
It's fantastic.
Alex Skinner (10:47):
It's certainly a team effort, but yeah,
absolutely.
Erin Vallier (10:49):
Yeah, it does take a village, doesn't it?
Where do you see technologyhaving the most impact on
business value?
Ryan Crawford (10:57):
Yeah, I can jump in on this one.
There's a couple of themes,albeit taking a lead from what
Alex was just sharing.
Where value is found is verydependent on the current state
and the goals of the client.
Obviously, if you're workingwithin a single region and
trying to just gain more carehours or more clients, versus
working across multiple regionsor working through expansions or
(11:19):
acquisitions, your goals arechanging.
When we look at the operationallevel, the benefits usually
manifest themselves in three keyareas.
The opportunity of doing morewith less is a common theme.
How do you power up your backoffice staff to handle more
requests, schedule more hours,make more efficient use of our
(11:41):
most valuable resource thatcaregiver right, and make sure
that they're deployed in themost effective places throughout
your week?
Another common area is in thebilling cycle.
We've had customers who werethis is a major pain point, and
in fact, we haven't met acustomer yet where this isn't a
major pain point, and so workingthrough automation cycles with
(12:02):
AlayaCare can eliminate a lot ofmanual tasks, literally with
billing, vetting and evenpotentially billing rejections.
So scheduling and billing tendto be very common ones.
The third bucket I tend to pointto is usually around the
communications benefits whereit's often overlooked.
Phone and email gets us reallyfar, but when you're trying to
(12:27):
scale your business, there areother mechanisms that make
self-serve information much moreavailable, and some of the
solutions that we offer enablereduction in time spent back
office staff, because the peoplethat they serve and the
families that they work with areable to access some of that
information on their own, whichprints calls or emails or
(12:48):
response time otherwise befacilitated by somebody, and
therefore let's then focus onscheduling work.
Here we're working with peopleto know book visits and that
Gotcha.
Erin Vallier (13:00):
So three main areas that you see a benefit
scheduling, billing andcommunications.
That's fantastic.
Alex Skinner (13:08):
We might also add that we call those kind of more
direct benefits.
But there's also a whole foryou of indirect benefits as well
that typically get quantified.
So these would be things, forexample, what happens when
information suddenly becomesavailable that maybe you didn't
have before.
What could that unlock for youin terms of business growth?
Or what would it mean in termsof, perhaps, the amount of time
that the solutions that supportteam are spending as a result of
(13:31):
maybe those problems don'texist anymore, things of that
sort.
We also try to look to quantifysome of those indirect benefits
that might occur as well.
So certainly some large bucketson direct, but I think there's
also a facet there to bementioned.
Erin Vallier (13:43):
And that leads me to my next question, which is
what are the things that peoplearen't thinking of Like?
What do you see that people cando to lower their operating
costs that most organizationsdon't even dream of?
Cause I'm sure you guys findall sorts of opportunity.
Alex Skinner (13:59):
Yeah, there truly are a lot of areas that we can
lean into.
To try to boil that down into acouple of key themes, some of
the ones that we see mostcommonly are transition points.
That's one of the biggest areasthat value can really be
applied.
So, moving from intake toscheduling, scheduling to
billing, those sorts oftransition points is when
there's a handover from one teamto another.
That's oftentimes where we seeinefficiency happen.
(14:22):
Where communication benefitscome into place, centralization
of data automations can justensure that data flows through
from essentially top to bottom alot more cleanly, a lot more
efficiently, if that lessbilling, rejections, less
cleanup to do can just operatemore seamlessly.
So that's one big area for sure.
Another one I would say isoftentimes we see a big area for
(14:46):
value applying in places wheremaybe there isn't a ton of
visibility.
For example, we recognize thatsometimes we'll have
conversations with organizationswill say tell us about this KPI
or tell us about this benchmark, how are you measuring that
sort of stuff?
And the honest truth is a lotof times they say we don't know
necessarily how we're performingright here, right now and it
could be pretty core metrics,and that's okay, we understand
(15:08):
everyone's coming from differentplaces, certainly, and
technologies, but that's oftenan area that we try to perhaps
focus in on, because there's awhole conversation of what
becomes available once you haveaccess to that data.
What does that mean for theorganization, what does that
mean for business growth?
What does that mean forefficiency and productivity as
well?
Even more important than justvisibility of data is the
(15:30):
opportunity to do something withthat data.
For example, how can we embedan automation to occur after the
fact, and I'll give you somespecific examples.
We're looking at utilization,for instance, and maybe we have
employees that haven't worked intime period, let's say 90 days.
Being able to see a list ordata of that sort and then being
(15:50):
able to perhaps automate areminder that goes out to those
folks, a message, a notification, something asking for
availability, things of thatsort can really enhance Employee
retention.
That can also remove thatburden on the coordinators, who
maybe typically would have tolook at that info or do that
follow up manually.
So those would be some examples, perhaps, of where some value
(16:11):
can lie in specific cases.
Ryan Crawford (16:13):
I think Alex captured very articulately, I
think the formula, if you will,is really looking at the
cross-section of what do youwant to achieve and what that
small problem might be, and thenlook at the compounding effect
that might have over the courseof your organization.
So I think what a lot of ourclients are humbled when going
(16:34):
through the process with us is Ialways heard about this pain
point in intake.
I didn't realize that when youlook at cross 40 people doing
this same activity 10 times aweek, every week that it's
actually consuming 50 hours amonth.
Right In isolation I might havejust been a small annoyance or
(16:57):
a workaround or something thatyou just needed to do to keep
the business going, and we allhave those right the pressure,
the demand of keeping up withthe service, with our clients
that we serve but you see thiscompounding effect take place
and so I think that's wherethere's a real incentive to look
at that macro view of how thesethings add up and that's
something that we encourage allof our partners to look at,
(17:18):
especially when thinking about abig technology shift.
It's a great opportunity tolook at workflow shift and
changes like that.
Erin Vallier (17:25):
I know that excites me and I think if any
organization, any agency ownersare listening to this podcast,
they should be excited too,because I'm going back to my
days where I was on theoperations side of things and we
spent so much time checking anddouble checking in between
those transition points, likeyou mentioned, alex, did we get
(17:46):
all of the referrals?
Did all the boxes get checked?
Did it get sent to thescheduling department?
Did it get the end?
Like all this stuff was verymanual and if you dropped the
ball you missed a client.
You only have a certain numberof hours to get that done and if
you dropped the ball you missedthe revenue or you could just
miss getting me off and youcould end up doing some free
(18:09):
visits there.
So there's a lot of benefit toexploring the operations of your
organization through anengagement like this, because it
sounds like you guys find allthe cracks that they don't even
know exist and then you findcreative solutions.
So 100%.
Ryan Crawford (18:27):
Sometimes we like to use the leaky bucket analogy
and by no means is any businessperfect.
I think when investigating anew technology, with progress
towards automation and tailoredworkflows and standardized
templates that you can eliminate, some of the error just
naturally occurs with lots ofvalue.
(18:49):
I think you identified a numberof really good ones, aaron.
Just to share some otherexamples this might be crazy to
some of our listeners, but we'veworked with some customers that
aren't able to actually knowwhat their level of utilization
of their authorizations are.
Could they report on how manyhours of service they're leaving
on the table or people notreceiving?
Are they 70%, 80%, 90% or maybethey're completely over in?
(19:12):
All of those write-offs, likeyou mentioned, are eating into
their service time that theycould be deploying elsewhere.
I think there's a nice littlelinkage back to what Alex was
sharing around decision support,and what some of this data can
enable you to act on is asecondary benefit to some of the
value that comes along withshifting to a modern home care
(19:33):
software.
Erin Vallier (19:34):
You speak about shifting to a modern software
solution and that rings in myhead change management.
I talk to a lot of people and Ihear it a lot.
There's a fear there.
There's a huge level of effortto go from one solution to the
next.
I'm curious how do you guysapproach discussing change
management in pursuit of all thevalue that we're promising?
Alex Skinner (19:58):
Yeah, a very popular theme.
I think the best way toapproach this is truly
acknowledging that there neverreally is the perfect time to go
through any change.
But oftentimes there is aconcept of trying to understand
what's the cost of waiting If wewere to consider the current
state right now versus apotential future state, with the
(20:19):
benefits understanding the one.
One of the areas that we try todo is actually model the costs
internally and externally forthat change by understanding
it's going to be more frontloaded and then it tapers off
later on, understanding whatthat cost would look like and
then reflecting that against thebenefit that might come from
solving some of these pains thatthe organization has identified
(20:39):
.
It's really important to factorin the cost of waiting the cost
of not necessarily changingthings.
Some simple examples could be ifwe're looking at one billing
solution right now where there'sa deficiency and maybe we're
having something slip throughthe cracks, perhaps we're not
catching all situations that areeasily preventable, as a result
we get, let's say, $500,000 inbilling rejections in a period
(21:01):
of time, then if we were to lookat fixing that problem, maybe
through some flags earlier on ormaybe through some automations,
we can ensure that data iscaptured more upfront and that
$500,000 can shrink down to,let's say, $100,000, for
instance, now we're looking at a$400,000 benefit from that one
feature, seeing that compoundingeffect, as Ryan was talking
(21:23):
about earlier.
Every time period let's call itper month or let's call it per
year, whatever size theorganization is every portion of
that time period that's$400,000.
Perhaps that could be missedout and acceptable as the time
goes on.
That just increases compared tothe change that it might take,
let's say, six months, threemonths of work to, yes, reshape
(21:43):
parts of the organization butunlock that value coming back to
the org as quick as possible.
I guess, in short terms, thebest way to summarize this is
the cost of waiting metric isone of the core pillars that we
look at in our ROI assessments.
To try to reflect that back andensure that the organization
feels they're considering allthe factors.
Ryan Crawford (22:03):
It also links in with where's the business going.
We're seeing almost across theboard.
All of our customers aregrowing and growing at a rapid
speed.
It often will never be any moresimpler than right now to
initiate a change.
We may be looking atacquisition or a merger or
entering a new state, and we'veseen some cautionary tales from
(22:25):
partners who have gone down thispath three, five years and
suddenly they are fragmentedacross 10 different systems.
You hear this kind of hindsightrealization oh, I wish we had
consolidated as we went.
Or I wish we had made thischange when we were at this size
before we're this size because,to go along with Alex's idea of
(22:48):
compounding benefits, there'salso that compounding risk.
That small thing, that kind of,was a minor annoyance when you
were at a certain size.
Two years down the line couldbecome a very big pain if
unaddressed.
I think part of the awarenesspiece of what we work with our
partners and what we couldchallenge everyone listening to
(23:09):
this podcast is to think aboutwhere you want to be in three
years and what could we fix nowor could we address now that
could prevent an extrapolationof the issue online.
Erin Vallier (23:19):
That's a compelling argument.
I like both of those the angles.
It's cost of waiting.
If I knew as an agency owner,oh my gosh, it's costing me this
much every month if I don'tmake a switch today.
And then I presume somewhere inyour reports I can see where
the breakeven point is after theinvestment because, as you
mentioned, you don't see itInitially.
(23:41):
It is on a J curve.
I like to tell people that holdonto your hats because it's
going down real fast and thenyou're going to see a marked
increase in functionality.
It'll go up just as fast as itgoes down, but there is a dip in
all of your functionality andpeople are just getting over
that learning curve.
(24:02):
It sounds like you can come upwith a very compelling argument
to make a switch.
It's kind of like planting atree.
The best time to do it was 20years ago.
The next best time is Today.
I like to leave the listenerswith something to chew on,
something they can go home andmaybe put in to action tomorrow.
And I know you guys are realgenerous with your knowledge.
(24:24):
Some curious do you have anyideas for the listeners of
somewhere within their businessthat they can look at and just
get a real quick value in?
Alex Skinner (24:35):
Yeah, quick wins.
We've talked a lot aboutbenchmarking and validating KPIs
and that sort of thing, soCertainly that's one of the
areas that we see typically hasthe most impact, because once
you're able to identify, maybe,how you're performing, then it's
easier to narrow in.
So I would say one of the corepillars, most obvious ones, is
certainly implementing KPIs andbenchmarking across productivity
(24:56):
and performance in theorganization, and we know
sometimes I can be a bit of achallenge.
There's a number of consultantsat our, at our work, that
certainly can help facilitatewhat that can look like as it
takes shape.
So I would say that's probablythe first one.
The other one that I've seenhave the biggest impact and is
one of the quickest to implementis clock in and out,
notifications, visit reminders,things of that sort.
(25:17):
They are very low effort butmassively high impact because
it's so much of that ispreventable so many missed
visits, so many reschedules, somany Forgetting to clock out.
That can be preventable bysimple notification automation
and goes quite a long way.
So I'd say those are probablymy top two that I might throw
out there.
Ryan Crawford (25:35):
I would add just probably one, and it's a simple
thought exercise for everyonewho's listening.
You can do this with your teamsor the leadership group or your
peers, and just ask yourself asimple question what do we do
that we've always done in?
The excuse that we use is thisis just the way we've always
done.
I think we all get caught up inthe pressure of the day and the
(25:58):
week and that turns into monthsand years and we often don't
take time to reflect on if thatPoint in time solution that you
came up with to an immediateproblem is really the right one
to carry you forward.
And I think you know spending30 minutes just reflecting on
what are we doing now that wejust always done is a great kind
(26:20):
of Check to see.
You know, maybe there'ssomething we could explore
turning on or try and layconnector automation, or
exploring an alternativeworkflow that might save, or
billing friends down the linebunch of rejections.
You'll get probably five, tenideas and pick two of them and
(26:41):
see if you can work with yourlike here to optimize the system
, or maybe try out a new featurethat has come online.
You have it Been able toexplore.
Yet it's just simple thoughtexercise along with Alex's quick
wins.
I bet you could find one, fiveor six different quick wins for
your or just kind of challengingthat status quo.
Erin Vallier (27:03):
Let's get in sight , because oftentimes what makes
us successful to date is what'sgoing to hold us back for where
we want to be tomorrow.
So I like that let's leave theaudience with the question of
what do I need to change or canI change?
What can I change to make abetter tomorrow?
Well, I appreciate you guys forhopping on the show with me
today.
It's been wonderful to chatwith you and I feel like we've
(27:27):
covered a lot of really goodinformation for the listeners.
Ryan Crawford (27:32):
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks for having us here.
This is fun absolutely.
Jeff Howell (27:37):
Home Health 360 is presented by like here, hosted
by Jeff Howell and Erin Vallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Erin Vallier (27:51):
And last but not least, if you liked this episode
and want to learn more aboutall things home- based care, you
can explore all of our episodesat like here, dot com.
Slash home help three sixty, orvisit us on your favorite
podcast platform.
This is now about enhancing human capabilities.
How can we make peopleessentially more productive?
How can we enable more hours tobe scheduled by an individual
by using technology to perhapsfind the best caregiver for a
particular visit, and do thatall in bulk?
So, in our sense, when wediscuss improving business
outcomes, the most importantquestion that we try to
(00:20):
understand at first is where arethey coming from?
What is the current state, andthen try to look for incremental
value that will be realisticbut also be beneficial to the
organization there.
Erin Vallier (00:40):
Welcome to another episode of the Home Help 360
podcast, where we talk to home-based care professionals from
around the globe.
I'm your host, Erin Vallier,and today I am joined by two
special guests Ryan Crawford andAlex Skinner.
Ryan leads the value creationconsulting team at AlayaCare.
(01:01):
He has a wealth of experience,including developing strategy
for small and large scaledigital transformation
initiatives focused on creatingincremental business value.
Additionally, he's evenco-created a home care tech
startup, and now he works withAlayaCare clients and future
partners to project the benefitsthat AlayaCare unlocks for
(01:23):
their businesses.
Alex has a background inpsychology and he's been with
AlayaCare for roughly five yearsin a variety of roles.
He's led countless clientimplementations, served as a
product expert for some ofAlayaCare's largest partners
across all markets and, mostrecently, he works closely with
(01:44):
Ryan, capturing andcommunicating the value of a
transition to AlayaCare.
Welcome to the show, gentlemen.
Ryan Crawford (01:51):
Thanks for having us.
Erin Vallier (01:54):
I'm super excited to chat with you guys today
because I'm having theopportunity to work with you
personally for the first time inthe coming months, and so I'm
probably going to learn a lottoday as well.
But before we hop into thetopic of value creation, I'd
love it if you could share withthe audience just how the value
creation team engages withAlayaCare customers and
(02:16):
prospects.
Ryan Crawford (02:17):
Yeah, of course, Erin happy to.
The value creation offering isa new one.
At AlayaCare, we're coming upon a year in existence and,
simply put, we work with ourcustomers and our partners to
try and capture other business,and that can take shape in many
different ways depending on theservices they provide, the
markets they operate in.
But ultimately we recognizeit's a big shift when adopting a
(02:40):
new technology and making surethat having a tight linkage to
how your technology is going topower your business or solve
some of your business problemsis very important.
So capturing and communicatingand quantifying that is really
how we work with our customers.
Erin Vallier (02:58):
Awesome, Alex.
Did you have anything youwanted to add to that?
Alex Skinner (03:01):
I think it's well put.
There's certainly a number ofphases that we go through to
narrow down and really focus inon what areas of value are most
applicable to different partnersand different stages that
they're at.
But I think we can chat moreabout that as we get into things
.
Erin Vallier (03:14):
Awesome when you talk about value creation.
I know that your team goes inand does an assessment and it's
very technical.
You have a lot of differentareas that you look at.
I'll start with Alex.
I'm hoping that you can sharewith the audience just how you
go about approaching those valueassessments with the client.
Alex Skinner (03:34):
It's a great question and the broad strokes
approach is we want to startlarger and narrow in.
So we have our first phasebeing a strategy phase, which is
where we want to sit down withthe senior leaders of the
organization, really talk aboutwhat they want to achieve maybe
in the next three to five yearsgoals.
What's on the horizon, how arewe getting there?
What's the focus currently?
Because that really frames thewhole project and the angles
(03:55):
that we need to observe andensure we align with.
After that we get into a littlebit more depth where we'll
conduct assessments, and this iswhere we sit down with more
operational leaders and discoverhow things are working
currently.
What are the pain points, whatare the areas, how much time are
they spending on certainprocesses, what are the aspects
they would love to change ifthey could, and are there ways
that we can support that?
So we look to then mirror andquantify essentially those
(04:19):
components themselves and thenultimately align that in a nice
package that will flow nicelyfrom the initial goals into
these quantifiable metrics, thenjustify them with the features
that perhaps might align best tosolve those problems and then
deliver the impact of what thatmight unlock, should all of that
work effectively.
There certainly are levels thatwe'll embed into that a little
(04:40):
bit further too, things likeunderstanding change management
curves.
So benefits don't get realizedtypically on day one, but it
takes some time to recognizethose after the fact.
So the whole concept of the Jcurve are things that we will
factor into the assessments aswell.
So, in a nutshell, we try tostart broad strokes, get a
little bit more focused and thenreally deliver on how we might
receive those impacts or how anorganization might feel them
(05:02):
tangibly.
Erin Vallier (05:03):
I love that approach.
So you get with the leadership,get the vision and then you
really get into the weeds withall of the subject matter
experts, figure out what they'redoing today and then see how
that actually translates into alike your software.
And I think for me, what Iheard you say that's cool is
it's not like a plug in somenumbers and here's an ROI, it's
(05:25):
an actual in depth evaluation ofthe business and it translates
into okay, this process lookslike this process in a like here
.
So you get a mapping.
Is that current?
Alex Skinner (05:38):
Yeah, in some ways .
So if we find an opportunityfor enhancements, then we'll
outline on our tables.
We'll say, okay, this isperhaps a current pain, this is
perhaps what the solution wouldlook like.
This is the feature within alike here and, based on your
current state and where you'reheaded, this might be sort of
the recognizable percentage, andmaybe it's 20% better, 10%
better, and that's where we sortof co-create these principles
(06:01):
throughout the whole assessment.
So it really is designed to bea collaborative experience, one
where we're both aligning on theapproach and on the measures
that are going to be put in.
Erin Vallier (06:10):
Oh, that's wonderful.
How do you guys figure out whatthe enhanced mode or the
enhanced functionality is goingto be?
An estimate of how muchimprovement they can get?
We're going to improve this by20% or this by 5%.
How do you arrive at thosenumbers?
Ryan Crawford (06:28):
Yeah, we did that a couple of different ways.
The first way is we work withmany different customers who've
come from many different currentstates, and so we have a set of
benchmark data that we'velooked at to say, typically a
customer should be able to seethese types of benefits across
certain categories.
But that's a range.
Let's take scheduling, forexample.
It might be a fairly largerange.
It could be 10% to 60%improvement in scheduling, and
(06:52):
that range really comes from theunique starting point of a
customer's circumstance.
If you're coming off of a papersolution, the added benefit of a
technology like Liacare ismassive.
If you're coming from a moremodern technology solution, it
might be more of an incrementalbenefit.
And so we've created thesebenefit ranges that we can
(07:13):
calibrate a recommendation up ordown depending on your current
state, and as a first cut we'llcome in with where we think it
might fall.
However, going back to thepoint Alex made around the
co-creation is we might say wefeel 30% is achievable in this
case, but after you see thedemos you might think 40% is
(07:33):
achievable, or realistically orconservatively it's 20%, and so
our goal is to make somethingthat feels credible and
achievable together.
But the foundation is based onour industry experience, working
with customers who've migratedmany different starting points
and creating the benchmarkranges.
Erin Vallier (07:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love your answer too.
It's not just made up, it'srooted in science.
It's rooted in a lot of casestudies.
It's rooted in a lot ofevidence.
So the recipient can feelpretty confident that we're
speaking truthfully here in ourengagements.
Ryan Crawford (08:09):
Yeah, and if I could just add, aaron, the
recipient also gets anopportunity to vet it.
They understand their currentstate and they get to see what
the future looks like in lifecare, and so they'll actually
get to see oh, do I see thesavings?
Do I get to see where thosesteps are eliminated or where
that automation plays a criticalrole?
Hopefully by the end of it theycan actually believe those
things to be true.
Erin Vallier (08:30):
And you guys describe for me and your
experience and improvingbusiness outcomes within
home-based care sector.
What do you see in theengagements that you've done?
Alex Skinner (08:40):
Yeah, that's a really good question, Erin,
because that really varies trulybased on the starting point of
the organization.
In doing a lot of our analysesas an organization, I've
grappled with this idea of amaturity model Some
organizations that are maybe ona legacy tech provider or maybe
they're operating on paper.
What they might be aiming foris perhaps a more digitization
focused transformation.
(09:00):
Really, what they're trying todo is get off paper, get onto
electronic tools.
That would be one big area ofopportunity, like we talked
about.
There's a massive benefit thatcould come from that.
Once those folks are there,maybe we're engaging with a
different organization.
The second level of maturityhere might be including
automations Instead of havinghumans doing these interactions,
following up, saying hey, didyou clock out of your visit?
(09:21):
Or checking for availability,things like that.
That's where we can introduceautomations as at second level.
The third one really is gettingto the most advanced level in
this maturity model.
That's where AI can really comeinto play.
Once you have the digitizationin place, you have the
automations in place.
This is now about enhancinghuman capabilities.
How can we make peopleessentially more productive?
How can we enable more hours tobe scheduled by an individual?
(09:44):
By using technology to perhapsfind the best caregiver for a
particular visit, and do thatall in bulk In our sense.
When we discuss improvingbusiness outcomes, the most
important question that we tryto understand at first is where
are they coming from?
What is the current state?
Then try to look forincremental value that will be
realistic but also be beneficialto the organization there.
Erin Vallier (10:07):
It really does sound like it depends on the
maturity of the organizationyou're working with, where they
are today and where they want tobe.
Electronic is much differentfrom electronic massive to.
I want to be fully automated.
Is that catchy right?
Okay?
Alex Skinner (10:23):
Absolutely.
It's quite difficult as well tointroduce something like
scheduling optimization whenfolks are maybe working on paper
, because it's quite a large gapgoing to that point.
We really want to talk aboutthe right stepwise motion to
share these benefits.
Erin Vallier (10:39):
It sounds like you help architect the right fit
solution for each uniqueorganization.
It's fantastic.
Alex Skinner (10:47):
It's certainly a team effort, but yeah,
absolutely.
Erin Vallier (10:49):
Yeah, it does take a village, doesn't it?
Where do you see technologyhaving the most impact on
business value?
Ryan Crawford (10:57):
Yeah, I can jump in on this one.
There's a couple of themes,albeit taking a lead from what
Alex was just sharing.
Where value is found is verydependent on the current state
and the goals of the client.
Obviously, if you're workingwithin a single region and
trying to just gain more carehours or more clients, versus
working across multiple regionsor working through expansions or
(11:19):
acquisitions, your goals arechanging.
When we look at the operationallevel, the benefits usually
manifest themselves in three keyareas.
The opportunity of doing morewith less is a common theme.
How do you power up your backoffice staff to handle more
requests, schedule more hours,make more efficient use of our
(11:41):
most valuable resource thatcaregiver right, and make sure
that they're deployed in themost effective places throughout
your week?
Another common area is in thebilling cycle.
We've had customers who werethis is a major pain point, and
in fact, we haven't met acustomer yet where this isn't a
major pain point, and so workingthrough automation cycles with
(12:02):
AlayaCare can eliminate a lot ofmanual tasks, literally with
billing, vetting and evenpotentially billing rejections.
So scheduling and billing tendto be very common ones.
The third bucket I tend to pointto is usually around the
communications benefits whereit's often overlooked.
Phone and email gets us reallyfar, but when you're trying to
(12:27):
scale your business, there areother mechanisms that make
self-serve information much moreavailable, and some of the
solutions that we offer enablereduction in time spent back
office staff, because the peoplethat they serve and the
families that they work with areable to access some of that
information on their own, whichprints calls or emails or
(12:48):
response time otherwise befacilitated by somebody, and
therefore let's then focus onscheduling work.
Here we're working with peopleto know book visits and that
Gotcha.
Erin Vallier (13:00):
So three main areas that you see a benefit
scheduling, billing andcommunications.
That's fantastic.
Alex Skinner (13:08):
We might also add that we call those kind of more
direct benefits.
But there's also a whole foryou of indirect benefits as well
that typically get quantified.
So these would be things, forexample, what happens when
information suddenly becomesavailable that maybe you didn't
have before.
What could that unlock for youin terms of business growth?
Or what would it mean in termsof, perhaps, the amount of time
that the solutions that supportteam are spending as a result of
(13:31):
maybe those problems don'texist anymore, things of that
sort.
We also try to look to quantifysome of those indirect benefits
that might occur as well.
So certainly some large bucketson direct, but I think there's
also a facet there to bementioned.
Erin Vallier (13:43):
And that leads me to my next question, which is
what are the things that peoplearen't thinking of Like?
What do you see that people cando to lower their operating
costs that most organizationsdon't even dream of?
Cause I'm sure you guys findall sorts of opportunity.
Alex Skinner (13:59):
Yeah, there truly are a lot of areas that we can
lean into.
To try to boil that down into acouple of key themes, some of
the ones that we see mostcommonly are transition points.
That's one of the biggest areasthat value can really be
applied.
So, moving from intake toscheduling, scheduling to
billing, those sorts oftransition points is when
there's a handover from one teamto another.
That's oftentimes where we seeinefficiency happen.
(14:22):
Where communication benefitscome into place, centralization
of data automations can justensure that data flows through
from essentially top to bottom alot more cleanly, a lot more
efficiently, if that lessbilling, rejections, less
cleanup to do can just operatemore seamlessly.
So that's one big area for sure.
Another one I would say isoftentimes we see a big area for
(14:46):
value applying in places wheremaybe there isn't a ton of
visibility.
For example, we recognize thatsometimes we'll have
conversations with organizationswill say tell us about this KPI
or tell us about this benchmark, how are you measuring that
sort of stuff?
And the honest truth is a lotof times they say we don't know
necessarily how we're performingright here, right now and it
could be pretty core metrics,and that's okay, we understand
(15:08):
everyone's coming from differentplaces, certainly, and
technologies, but that's oftenan area that we try to perhaps
focus in on, because there's awhole conversation of what
becomes available once you haveaccess to that data.
What does that mean for theorganization, what does that
mean for business growth?
What does that mean forefficiency and productivity as
well?
Even more important than justvisibility of data is the
(15:30):
opportunity to do something withthat data.
For example, how can we embedan automation to occur after the
fact, and I'll give you somespecific examples.
We're looking at utilization,for instance, and maybe we have
employees that haven't worked intime period, let's say 90 days.
Being able to see a list ordata of that sort and then being
(15:50):
able to perhaps automate areminder that goes out to those
folks, a message, a notification, something asking for
availability, things of thatsort can really enhance Employee
retention.
That can also remove thatburden on the coordinators, who
maybe typically would have tolook at that info or do that
follow up manually.
So those would be some examples, perhaps, of where some value
(16:11):
can lie in specific cases.
Ryan Crawford (16:13):
I think Alex captured very articulately, I
think the formula, if you will,is really looking at the
cross-section of what do youwant to achieve and what that
small problem might be, and thenlook at the compounding effect
that might have over the courseof your organization.
So I think what a lot of ourclients are humbled when going
(16:34):
through the process with us is Ialways heard about this pain
point in intake.
I didn't realize that when youlook at cross 40 people doing
this same activity 10 times aweek, every week that it's
actually consuming 50 hours amonth.
Right In isolation I might havejust been a small annoyance or
(16:57):
a workaround or something thatyou just needed to do to keep
the business going, and we allhave those right the pressure,
the demand of keeping up withthe service, with our clients
that we serve but you see thiscompounding effect take place
and so I think that's wherethere's a real incentive to look
at that macro view of how thesethings add up and that's
something that we encourage allof our partners to look at,
(17:18):
especially when thinking about abig technology shift.
It's a great opportunity tolook at workflow shift and
changes like that.
Erin Vallier (17:25):
I know that excites me and I think if any
organization, any agency ownersare listening to this podcast,
they should be excited too,because I'm going back to my
days where I was on theoperations side of things and we
spent so much time checking anddouble checking in between
those transition points, likeyou mentioned, alex, did we get
(17:46):
all of the referrals?
Did all the boxes get checked?
Did it get sent to thescheduling department?
Did it get the end?
Like all this stuff was verymanual and if you dropped the
ball you missed a client.
You only have a certain numberof hours to get that done and if
you dropped the ball you missedthe revenue or you could just
miss getting me off and youcould end up doing some free
(18:09):
visits there.
So there's a lot of benefit toexploring the operations of your
organization through anengagement like this, because it
sounds like you guys find allthe cracks that they don't even
know exist and then you findcreative solutions.
So 100%.
Ryan Crawford (18:27):
Sometimes we like to use the leaky bucket analogy
and by no means is any businessperfect.
I think when investigating anew technology, with progress
towards automation and tailoredworkflows and standardized
templates that you can eliminate, some of the error just
naturally occurs with lots ofvalue.
(18:49):
I think you identified a numberof really good ones, aaron.
Just to share some otherexamples this might be crazy to
some of our listeners, but we'veworked with some customers that
aren't able to actually knowwhat their level of utilization
of their authorizations are.
Could they report on how manyhours of service they're leaving
on the table or people notreceiving?
Are they 70%, 80%, 90% or maybethey're completely over in?
(19:12):
All of those write-offs, likeyou mentioned, are eating into
their service time that theycould be deploying elsewhere.
I think there's a nice littlelinkage back to what Alex was
sharing around decision support,and what some of this data can
enable you to act on is asecondary benefit to some of the
value that comes along withshifting to a modern home care
(19:33):
software.
Erin Vallier (19:34):
You speak about shifting to a modern software
solution and that rings in myhead change management.
I talk to a lot of people and Ihear it a lot.
There's a fear there.
There's a huge level of effortto go from one solution to the
next.
I'm curious how do you guysapproach discussing change
management in pursuit of all thevalue that we're promising?
Alex Skinner (19:58):
Yeah, a very popular theme.
I think the best way toapproach this is truly
acknowledging that there neverreally is the perfect time to go
through any change.
But oftentimes there is aconcept of trying to understand
what's the cost of waiting If wewere to consider the current
state right now versus apotential future state, with the
(20:19):
benefits understanding the one.
One of the areas that we try todo is actually model the costs
internally and externally forthat change by understanding
it's going to be more frontloaded and then it tapers off
later on, understanding whatthat cost would look like and
then reflecting that against thebenefit that might come from
solving some of these pains thatthe organization has identified
(20:39):
.
It's really important to factorin the cost of waiting the cost
of not necessarily changingthings.
Some simple examples could be ifwe're looking at one billing
solution right now where there'sa deficiency and maybe we're
having something slip throughthe cracks, perhaps we're not
catching all situations that areeasily preventable, as a result
we get, let's say, $500,000 inbilling rejections in a period
(21:01):
of time, then if we were to lookat fixing that problem, maybe
through some flags earlier on ormaybe through some automations,
we can ensure that data iscaptured more upfront and that
$500,000 can shrink down to,let's say, $100,000, for
instance, now we're looking at a$400,000 benefit from that one
feature, seeing that compoundingeffect, as Ryan was talking
(21:23):
about earlier.
Every time period let's call itper month or let's call it per
year, whatever size theorganization is every portion of
that time period that's$400,000.
Perhaps that could be missedout and acceptable as the time
goes on.
That just increases compared tothe change that it might take,
let's say, six months, threemonths of work to, yes, reshape
(21:43):
parts of the organization butunlock that value coming back to
the org as quick as possible.
I guess, in short terms, thebest way to summarize this is
the cost of waiting metric isone of the core pillars that we
look at in our ROI assessments.
To try to reflect that back andensure that the organization
feels they're considering allthe factors.
Ryan Crawford (22:03):
It also links in with where's the business going.
We're seeing almost across theboard.
All of our customers aregrowing and growing at a rapid
speed.
It often will never be any moresimpler than right now to
initiate a change.
We may be looking atacquisition or a merger or
entering a new state, and we'veseen some cautionary tales from
(22:25):
partners who have gone down thispath three, five years and
suddenly they are fragmentedacross 10 different systems.
You hear this kind of hindsightrealization oh, I wish we had
consolidated as we went.
Or I wish we had made thischange when we were at this size
before we're this size because,to go along with Alex's idea of
(22:48):
compounding benefits, there'salso that compounding risk.
That small thing, that kind of,was a minor annoyance when you
were at a certain size.
Two years down the line couldbecome a very big pain if
unaddressed.
I think part of the awarenesspiece of what we work with our
partners and what we couldchallenge everyone listening to
(23:09):
this podcast is to think aboutwhere you want to be in three
years and what could we fix nowor could we address now that
could prevent an extrapolationof the issue online.
Erin Vallier (23:19):
That's a compelling argument.
I like both of those the angles.
It's cost of waiting.
If I knew as an agency owner,oh my gosh, it's costing me this
much every month if I don'tmake a switch today.
And then I presume somewhere inyour reports I can see where
the breakeven point is after theinvestment because, as you
mentioned, you don't see itInitially.
(23:41):
It is on a J curve.
I like to tell people that holdonto your hats because it's
going down real fast and thenyou're going to see a marked
increase in functionality.
It'll go up just as fast as itgoes down, but there is a dip in
all of your functionality andpeople are just getting over
that learning curve.
(24:02):
It sounds like you can come upwith a very compelling argument
to make a switch.
It's kind of like planting atree.
The best time to do it was 20years ago.
The next best time is Today.
I like to leave the listenerswith something to chew on,
something they can go home andmaybe put in to action tomorrow.
And I know you guys are realgenerous with your knowledge.
(24:24):
Some curious do you have anyideas for the listeners of
somewhere within their businessthat they can look at and just
get a real quick value in?
Alex Skinner (24:35):
Yeah, quick wins.
We've talked a lot aboutbenchmarking and validating KPIs
and that sort of thing, soCertainly that's one of the
areas that we see typically hasthe most impact, because once
you're able to identify, maybe,how you're performing, then it's
easier to narrow in.
So I would say one of the corepillars, most obvious ones, is
certainly implementing KPIs andbenchmarking across productivity
(24:56):
and performance in theorganization, and we know
sometimes I can be a bit of achallenge.
There's a number of consultantsat our, at our work, that
certainly can help facilitatewhat that can look like as it
takes shape.
So I would say that's probablythe first one.
The other one that I've seenhave the biggest impact and is
one of the quickest to implementis clock in and out,
notifications, visit reminders,things of that sort.
(25:17):
They are very low effort butmassively high impact because
it's so much of that ispreventable so many missed
visits, so many reschedules, somany Forgetting to clock out.
That can be preventable bysimple notification automation
and goes quite a long way.
So I'd say those are probablymy top two that I might throw
out there.
Ryan Crawford (25:35):
I would add just probably one, and it's a simple
thought exercise for everyonewho's listening.
You can do this with your teamsor the leadership group or your
peers, and just ask yourself asimple question what do we do
that we've always done in?
The excuse that we use is thisis just the way we've always
done.
I think we all get caught up inthe pressure of the day and the
(25:58):
week and that turns into monthsand years and we often don't
take time to reflect on if thatPoint in time solution that you
came up with to an immediateproblem is really the right one
to carry you forward.
And I think you know spending30 minutes just reflecting on
what are we doing now that wejust always done is a great kind
(26:20):
of Check to see.
You know, maybe there'ssomething we could explore
turning on or try and layconnector automation, or
exploring an alternativeworkflow that might save, or
billing friends down the linebunch of rejections.
You'll get probably five, tenideas and pick two of them and
(26:41):
see if you can work with yourlike here to optimize the system
, or maybe try out a new featurethat has come online.
You have it Been able toexplore.
Yet it's just simple thoughtexercise along with Alex's quick
wins.
I bet you could find one, fiveor six different quick wins for
your or just kind of challengingthat status quo.
Erin Vallier (27:03):
Let's get in sight , because oftentimes what makes
us successful to date is what'sgoing to hold us back for where
we want to be tomorrow.
So I like that let's leave theaudience with the question of
what do I need to change or canI change?
What can I change to make abetter tomorrow?
Well, I appreciate you guys forhopping on the show with me
today.
It's been wonderful to chatwith you and I feel like we've
(27:27):
covered a lot of really goodinformation for the listeners.
Ryan Crawford (27:32):
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks for having us here.
This is fun absolutely.
Jeff Howell (27:37):
Home Health 360 is presented by like here, hosted
by Jeff Howell and Erin Vallier.
First, we want to thank ouramazing guests and listeners.
Second, our episodes air twicea month, so be sure to subscribe
today so you don't miss anepisode.
Erin Vallier (27:51):
And last but not least, if you liked this episode
and want to learn more aboutall things home- based care, you
can explore all of our episodesat like here, dot com.
Slash home help three sixty, orvisit us on your favorite
podcast platform.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.