Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'll see you next time.
(00:22):
Thank you for joining me.
My name is NOLA Simon, and I'm the hostof the hybrid remote center of excellence.
And I wanted to actually do a differentsort of podcast because I actually
am exploring the Google notebook LM.
So it's an AI.
Function that actually creates a podcast.
(00:42):
That's honestly not real people.
It's just AI.
But the interesting thing isyou can actually upload sources.
So I've uploaded a Maclean'smagazine interview with me.
My LinkedIn profile, my websiteseveral of the media articles
that have been written about me.
In interview that Anna Burgess.
We're seeing did for me.
(01:04):
She was actually a guest on my podcast.
We did a whole exchange andmy coach, Carrie twig actually
quoted me in an article that shehad written about leadership.
So I've included all of those sources and.
Uploaded that to this Google notebookLM, and it's created a podcast.
Which is actually going to be theaudio that you hear following.
So it's an interesting experiment.
(01:27):
I've done.
A hundred episodes.
Looking at very various different topics.
And I've actually done it a solo episode,really to promote my business and explain
exactly what it is that I do for work,but it is really difficult to analyze
your own skills and abilities andpull together your pieces and actually
(01:50):
convey it in such a way that it truly.
Advocates for yourself.
You have to be really gifted tostep outside of yourself to really
Highlight.
The impact of your work.
And although I think thatI'm fairly good at that.
I think this is better and it'sactually really a cool use of AI.
(02:12):
And I wanted to share itwith you in its entirety.
It's weird to listen to.
Like from my own perspective.
And I've experimented withseveral different version.
The first one made me laughbecause it picked up my hatred.
It was a monopoly.
And gave him a vacation.
I like gamification in certain aspects,but I really truly do hate monopoly.
(02:33):
And that made me laugh quite a lot.
I, it's random in when it picks up.
I, it actually made me tear up at onepoint, because initially when I created
my podcast, I called it the Janice Oasis.
And.
Then I realized that there'sa whole bunch of other ways
that people pronounce Janice.
I see Janice.
Some people say Janus.
(02:55):
I'm not sure what's grabbed Alexawould tell you that Janus is correct.
And so I didn't necessarily likethe pronunciation difference.
But it actually pulled up on the symbolismand explain the symbolism behind the.
The whole name and that made me tear upbecause I'm like, I put so much thought
into the fact that the the Roman Godhas two faces, one looking towards
(03:18):
the fast one, looking towards thefuture and had explained all of that.
And I'm like, I've completelyforgotten how much I'd written about.
The symbolism behind that name.
And it pulled it into the podcast and.
And that was really cool.
So it didn't make itinto the final version.
But it did make me smile this morning.
(03:39):
So nothing is ever truly wastedis really what I'm telling you.
Will come back up in variousdifferent ways that you really didn't.
I plan on it now that can be bad and good.
But when it's actually pullingin work that you put out.
Pooping that it would have an impact.
And it comes up later.
That's.
(04:00):
Meaningful, it'stouching, it's validating.
And so it's also very,truly very interesting.
Again, Yeah, you can put in allkinds of different stuff into.
The Google notebook LM andcreate your own podcast.
Now that is super cool.
For anybody who actually doesn'thave a podcast from their own.
It's something that you couldembed, send to people, put
(04:23):
into like your email signature.
Ah, it's really cool.
So anyways, I've created a podcastsince I have a podcast and I
hope you enjoy listening to it.
I'd really like to understand your.
Reaction to it because, do these voices.
Put you on edge.
Do you find it engaging?
What do you like about it?
(04:43):
What do you dislike about it?
Where's the uncanny valley.
What makes you feel weird?
All of that reaction do you trust this?
How does it make you feelbasically is what I'm interested
in because I know how it made mefeel and I'm like, I feel bubbly.
You can hear it in my voice.
I feel bubbly and enthusiastic.
But I don't know how it'smaking other people feel.
(05:04):
It I've really loved to knowwhat the reaction is on this.
So anyways enjoy.
Welcome back everybodyto another deep dive.
Yeah.
Today we're tackling somethingthat I think a lot of people
are thinking about these days.
Yeah, for sure.
Building trust and leadingeffectively, in this crazy new
world of hybrid and remote work.
(05:24):
We've got an expert with us todayand you might actually find that.
Her perspectives resonate withsome of your own experiences.
So we're going to be exploringinsights from Nola Simon.
She's an internationallyrecognized consultant.
And she specializes in thisarea of hybrid and remote work.
Have you ever felt likethere's a disconnect?
(05:44):
Oh, total.
Between what a company says their valuesare and how they actually operate.
Yeah.
Particularly when it comes to trustand flexibility in the workplace.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
That's what we're goingto be unpacking today.
Yeah.
It's a common experience.
Yes.
What I think is so fascinatingabout Simon's approach is that
she really emphasizes a veryfundamental shift in mindset.
(06:08):
She doesn't just give you tips or,tech solutions or something like that.
She challenges us to reallyredefine how we think about trust.
Yeah.
Especially in the contextof hybrid and remote work.
Where so much feels uncertain.
And in flux.
Yeah.
I love that she goes so deepinto the human aspect of it all.
Oh, totally.
She references Rachel Botsman'sdefinition of trust a lot, which is a
(06:32):
confident relationship with the unknown.
Yeah.
What do you make of that definition?
I think it's Brilliant.
Because it really reframes trust assomething that's dynamic, not just
about predictability or control.
It acknowledges that in today'swork environment, things
are constantly changing.
Yeah.
And that effective leadershipreally requires this ability
(06:54):
to navigate ambiguity.
Not shy away from it.
In fact, Simon even argues thattraditional workplaces with
their rigid policies and constantsurveillance actually breed distrust.
Interesting.
Yeah.
That really resonates with me.
Yeah.
I've definitely worked in placeswhere the policies seem designed to
catch people doing something wrong.
Instead of empowering themto do their best work.
(07:16):
Exactly.
Simon actually shares some personalstories about that too, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
She talks about the anxiety she felt.
Okay.
Due to Inconsistent leave policiesat a previous company, never quite
knowing if taking time off to carefor her children would be paid or not.
Oh, wow.
That kind of uncertaintyreally eats away at trust.
(07:38):
And makes you question the company'strue commitment to their employees.
Yeah.
And it's almost like those policies, Yeah.
Create this expectation that youhave to prove you're working all
the time, even when you're not.
And I've heard thatcalled performative work.
Yes.
Where employees feelpressured to constantly be on.
Totally.
(07:58):
Even to the point of burnout.
Exactly.
And Simon experienced this first hand.
Really?
She shares this.
Pretty harrowing story about gettinginto a serious car accident, directly
caused by exhaustion from overworking.
And she was pushing herself toalleviate her employer's anxieties
about her remote work performance.
(08:19):
So it's a really stark reminderof the very real human cost.
of a lack of trust and the pressureto constantly prove your worth.
Yeah, it's a powerful example ofhow a lack of trust can actually
undermine productivity and well being.
Totally.
Even if it's not, always asdramatic as a car accident.
(08:40):
So many people arestruggling with burnout.
Oh yeah.
From this always on culture.
For sure.
What are some of the other waysthat this pressure manifests,
maybe in less obvious ways?
I think it can show up as presenteeismwhere people are online but
not truly engaged or a fear ofdisconnecting even for short periods.
It can lead to, difficultyprioritizing and setting boundaries.
(09:01):
And ultimately it just erodes creativityand innovation because people are so
focused on proving they're workingthat they don't have the mental
space to actually do their best work.
That makes so much sense.
Yeah.
So how do we break free from this cycle?
Simon talks about building trust.
But how do we actually do that?
Yeah.
Especially when so manytraditional workplace structures.
(09:25):
Yeah.
Seem designed to do the opposite.
Yeah.
I think Simon proposes thisthree pronged approach.
Okay.
First one is.
Emphasizing the importance of trulyvaluing employees and upholding
company values consistently.
So it's about moving beyond lipservice and demonstrating through
actions that you trust your team.
(09:47):
So this could mean things likeoffering flexible work arrangements.
with that question orprioritizing employee well
being or providing opportunitiesfor professional development.
So it's about walking the walk.
Yeah, exactly.
Not just talking the talk.
For sure.
What about her other suggestions?
So the second strategy focuses onempowering managers, giving them
(10:09):
the autonomy to make decisions andsupport their teams effectively.
Okay.
And this demonstrates trustin their leadership and helps
create A more responsive andsupportive work environment.
Think about it.
Yeah.
If managers feelmicromanaged and distrustful.
Yeah.
That attitude is gonnatrickle down to their team.
So it's like creating a cultureof trust from the top down.
(10:31):
Totally.
What's the third piece of the puzzle?
Okay, so the third strategyis all about understanding.
Okay.
What it actually means to be trustworthy.
Okay.
So this involves a degreeof self reflection.
Both on an individualand organizational level.
Are you truly living upto your stated values?
Are you modeling the behaviorsyou expect from others?
(10:53):
Yeah.
It's about recognizing that buildingtrust is an ongoing process.
Not a one time fit.
And not just checking a box.
Yeah.
Okay, so it sounds like there needsto be this pretty fundamental shift.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In how we approach leadershipand workplace culture, Simon
also talks about the differencebetween transparency and trust.
(11:14):
Yes.
Can you unpack that a little bit?
Yeah, sure.
It seems like those two conceptsare often used interchangeably.
Yeah, and that's a crucial distinction.
Transparency is about providinginformation and context.
But it's not the same as trust.
Okay.
Simon argues that sometimestransparency can even be used.
Okay.
to mask a lack of trust.
For example, Yeah.
(11:35):
If a company is constantly monitoringemployees, and sharing that data
under the guise of transparency, Okay.
it can actually create amore distrustful environment.
Because it feels like you'rebeing watched and judged.
Exactly.
Even if you're doing everything right.
Totally.
It seems like real trust goes deeperthan just sharing information.
(11:55):
Yeah, for sure.
It's about believing in people'sintentions and capabilities.
Speaking of believing in people.
Yeah.
I know Simon is a big proponentof visionary leadership.
I've always found thatconcept a little bit nebulous.
Yeah.
What does it actually mean to be?
A visionary leader, especially in thiscontext of remote and hybrid work.
(12:16):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah.
And I think it's especially relevant now.
Simon often quotes leadershipcoach Carrie Twigg.
Who says that leaders withoutvision are just managers.
Interesting.
So visionary leaders are able tolook beyond the day to day tasks
and inspire their team with a clearsense of purpose and direction.
(12:37):
Okay.
They're able to anticipate futurechallenges and opportunities and they're
willing to take risks and embrace change.
So it's not just aboutmanaging the status quo.
Exactly.
It's about guiding the teamtowards something bigger.
Yeah.
Even if that something isconstantly evolving, right?
I know Simon has a great story.
He does.
About how her own visionaryleadership style led to this
(12:58):
major breakthrough for her team.
Yes, she completelyredefined her team's scope.
Wow.
Pushing beyond traditional boundaries.
Okay.
And this bold move driven by her visionand trust in her team actually led to
a billion dollar business relationship.
Wow.
It's a powerful example of what'spossible when leaders have the courage
(13:19):
to trust their intuition and empowertheir teams to achieve ambitious goals.
That's incredibly inspiring.
It is.
But how do these grand ideas aboutTrust and vision actually translate
into the nitty gritty of designinga workplace, especially one that's
increasingly hybrid or remote.
That's where Simon gets really practical.
(13:40):
She outlines this framework for a trustbased approach to workplace design.
Okay.
And it centers around three key areas.
Okay.
First, she emphasizes the importanceof clearly defined strategies, goals,
and expectations for employees.
Okay.
This ensures that everyone understandshow their individual work contributes
to the company's overall vision.
(14:00):
And it reduces ambiguity.
It's about providing thatclarity and direction even when
people are physically dispersed.
Totally.
What else does she recommend?
So Simon also highlights theimportance of crafting authentic and
consistent narratives around work.
Okay.
This means ensuring that the company'sactions align with their stated values.
(14:21):
It's about telling a cohesive story.
Yeah.
That resonates withemployees and businesses.
Builds trust I imagine this is wherethe storytelling element comes in it is
can you elaborate on that a bit more?
Yeah, it seems like a powerfulbut potentially tricky tool.
Absolutely.
Simon is a big believer Yeah in thepower of storytelling to shape workplace
(14:42):
culture Okay, but she cautions againstmanipulative storytelling, right?
You can't just tell a good story Yeah,your actions had to back it up right
if there's a disconnect between thenarrative and the reality Yeah It actually
erodes trust and creates cynicism.
So it's about being genuineand walking the walk.
Exactly.
Yeah.
What kind of stories do you thinkcompanies should be telling to
(15:04):
foster a more trusting and humancentered, That's a great question.
And I think it's something everyorganization needs to consider carefully.
Yeah.
It's about telling stories thatcelebrate individual contributions.
Highlight acts of trust and collaboration.
Yeah.
And acknowledge challenges, honestly.
It's about creating a narrative.
(15:25):
Yeah.
That resonates withemployees lived experiences.
And inspires them to be their best selves.
So it's not just abouttelling positive stories.
It's about telling real stories.
Yeah.
That reflect the complexities ofwork and the human experience.
Exactly.
What are some other ways thatorganizations can foster.
Yeah.
A more trusting and humancentered work environment.
(15:46):
Especially in this evolvinglandscape of hybrid and remote work.
One crucial aspect is.
One crucial aspect is.
Recognizing and accommodatingthe diverse needs of employees.
That makes sense, especially ina hybrid or remote setting, where
people are juggling differentschedules and responsibilities.
Exactly.
It's about offering flexibility, notjust in terms of where people work,
but also when and how they work.
(16:07):
So it's about trusting employees to managetheir own time and workload effectively,
rather than imposing rigid structuresthat might not work for everyone.
And it's also about creating aculture where people feel comfortable
asking for what they need withoutfear of being judged or penalized.
That sense of psychologicalsafety is so important.
(16:28):
Because if people don't feel safe speakingup, then you're never going to truly
know what's working and what's not.
Simon makes a really interestingpoint about the link between
trust and adaptability.
I'm curious to hear more about that.
How does trust enableadaptability in the workplace?
She argues that when there's ahigh level of trust, people are
(16:48):
more willing to embrace change andexperiment with new ways of working.
Because they know that they're notgoing to be punished for making
mistakes or for trying somethingnew that might not work out.
Exactly.
And that willingness to experiment isessential for organizations to thrive
in today's rapidly changing world.
It's about creating that environment ofpsychological safety, where people feel
(17:08):
empowered to take risks and innovate.
And to learn from your failuresas well as their successes.
That growth mindset is so important,but it can be hard to cultivate in a
culture that's obsessed with perfection.
Which is why trust is so fundamental,because it creates the space for
people to be vulnerable, to admitwhen they don't know something, and
to ask for help when they need it.
(17:30):
It's about recognizing that we'reall learning and growing together.
And that it's okay tonot have all the answers.
And I think Simon's own careerjourney is a great example of this.
She talks about how she transitionedfrom a traditional corporate role to
becoming a hybrid remote work consultant.
So she was actually living andbreathing these principles before
she started advising others on them.
(17:50):
Exactly.
And what's so inspiring about her storyis that she was an early advocate for
remote work within her own company,even when it wasn't widely accepted.
She was ahead of the curve, and shehad to deal with a lot of pushback
and skepticism along the way.
But she persevered because she believedin the power of flexible work to create
a better balance between work and life.
And now she's using her experience tohelp other companies make that transition
(18:13):
to a more human centered way of working.
It's a great example of how wecan all be agents of change within
our own organizations and beyond.
And it's also a reminder that it'snever too late to reinvent yourself.
It's about being open to new possibilitiesand embracing the unknown with a
confident relationship with the unknown.
(18:35):
Going back to that brilliantdefinition from Botsman.
And that's what Nola Simon is all about.
She's a visionary leader who'shelping us create a better
future of work for everyone.
And I think her work is morerelevant than ever as we continue
to navigate the complexities ofthe hybrid remote work landscape.
So if you're looking for inspiration,guidance, and practical advice on how
to build, Trust, foster vision, andcreate a more human centered workplace.
(18:58):
I highly recommend checkingout Nola Simon's work.
You can find her on LinkedInSubstack and her podcast, The
Hybrid Remote Center of Excellence.
And with that, I think we'llwrap up this deep dive.
It's been a fascinating conversation, andI hope you've all gained some valuable
insights into how to lead effectively andbuild trust in this new world of work.
(19:19):
I know I have.
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks.
I'll see you next time.
I'll see you next time.
(00:22):
Thank you for joining me.
My name is NOLA Simon, and I'm the hostof the hybrid remote center of excellence.
And I wanted to actually do a differentsort of podcast because I actually
am exploring the Google notebook LM.
So it's an AI.
Function that actually creates a podcast.
(00:42):
That's honestly not real people.
It's just AI.
But the interesting thing isyou can actually upload sources.
So I've uploaded a Maclean'smagazine interview with me.
My LinkedIn profile, my websiteseveral of the media articles
that have been written about me.
In interview that Anna Burgess.
We're seeing did for me.
(01:04):
She was actually a guest on my podcast.
We did a whole exchange andmy coach, Carrie twig actually
quoted me in an article that shehad written about leadership.
So I've included all of those sources and.
Uploaded that to this Google notebookLM, and it's created a podcast.
Which is actually going to be theaudio that you hear following.
So it's an interesting experiment.
(01:27):
I've done.
A hundred episodes.
Looking at very various different topics.
And I've actually done it a solo episode,really to promote my business and explain
exactly what it is that I do for work,but it is really difficult to analyze
your own skills and abilities andpull together your pieces and actually
(01:50):
convey it in such a way that it truly.
Advocates for yourself.
You have to be really gifted tostep outside of yourself to really
Highlight.
The impact of your work.
And although I think thatI'm fairly good at that.
I think this is better and it'sactually really a cool use of AI.
(02:12):
And I wanted to share itwith you in its entirety.
It's weird to listen to.
Like from my own perspective.
And I've experimented withseveral different version.
The first one made me laughbecause it picked up my hatred.
It was a monopoly.
And gave him a vacation.
I like gamification in certain aspects,but I really truly do hate monopoly.
(02:33):
And that made me laugh quite a lot.
I, it's random in when it picks up.
I, it actually made me tear up at onepoint, because initially when I created
my podcast, I called it the Janice Oasis.
And.
Then I realized that there'sa whole bunch of other ways
that people pronounce Janice.
I see Janice.
Some people say Janus.
(02:55):
I'm not sure what's grabbed Alexawould tell you that Janus is correct.
And so I didn't necessarily likethe pronunciation difference.
But it actually pulled up on the symbolismand explain the symbolism behind the.
The whole name and that made me tear upbecause I'm like, I put so much thought
into the fact that the the Roman Godhas two faces, one looking towards
(03:18):
the fast one, looking towards thefuture and had explained all of that.
And I'm like, I've completelyforgotten how much I'd written about.
The symbolism behind that name.
And it pulled it into the podcast and.
And that was really cool.
So it didn't make itinto the final version.
But it did make me smile this morning.
(03:39):
So nothing is ever truly wastedis really what I'm telling you.
Will come back up in variousdifferent ways that you really didn't.
I plan on it now that can be bad and good.
But when it's actually pullingin work that you put out.
Pooping that it would have an impact.
And it comes up later.
That's.
(04:00):
Meaningful, it'stouching, it's validating.
And so it's also very,truly very interesting.
Again, Yeah, you can put in allkinds of different stuff into.
The Google notebook LM andcreate your own podcast.
Now that is super cool.
For anybody who actually doesn'thave a podcast from their own.
It's something that you couldembed, send to people, put
(04:23):
into like your email signature.
Ah, it's really cool.
So anyways, I've created a podcastsince I have a podcast and I
hope you enjoy listening to it.
I'd really like to understand your.
Reaction to it because, do these voices.
Put you on edge.
Do you find it engaging?
What do you like about it?
(04:43):
What do you dislike about it?
Where's the uncanny valley.
What makes you feel weird?
All of that reaction do you trust this?
How does it make you feelbasically is what I'm interested
in because I know how it made mefeel and I'm like, I feel bubbly.
You can hear it in my voice.
I feel bubbly and enthusiastic.
But I don't know how it'smaking other people feel.
(05:04):
It I've really loved to knowwhat the reaction is on this.
So anyways enjoy.
Welcome back everybodyto another deep dive.
Yeah.
Today we're tackling somethingthat I think a lot of people
are thinking about these days.
Yeah, for sure.
Building trust and leadingeffectively, in this crazy new
world of hybrid and remote work.
(05:24):
We've got an expert with us todayand you might actually find that.
Her perspectives resonate withsome of your own experiences.
So we're going to be exploringinsights from Nola Simon.
She's an internationallyrecognized consultant.
And she specializes in thisarea of hybrid and remote work.
Have you ever felt likethere's a disconnect?
(05:44):
Oh, total.
Between what a company says their valuesare and how they actually operate.
Yeah.
Particularly when it comes to trustand flexibility in the workplace.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
That's what we're goingto be unpacking today.
Yeah.
It's a common experience.
Yes.
What I think is so fascinatingabout Simon's approach is that
she really emphasizes a veryfundamental shift in mindset.
(06:08):
She doesn't just give you tips or,tech solutions or something like that.
She challenges us to reallyredefine how we think about trust.
Yeah.
Especially in the contextof hybrid and remote work.
Where so much feels uncertain.
And in flux.
Yeah.
I love that she goes so deepinto the human aspect of it all.
Oh, totally.
She references Rachel Botsman'sdefinition of trust a lot, which is a
(06:32):
confident relationship with the unknown.
Yeah.
What do you make of that definition?
I think it's Brilliant.
Because it really reframes trust assomething that's dynamic, not just
about predictability or control.
It acknowledges that in today'swork environment, things
are constantly changing.
Yeah.
And that effective leadershipreally requires this ability
(06:54):
to navigate ambiguity.
Not shy away from it.
In fact, Simon even argues thattraditional workplaces with
their rigid policies and constantsurveillance actually breed distrust.
Interesting.
Yeah.
That really resonates with me.
Yeah.
I've definitely worked in placeswhere the policies seem designed to
catch people doing something wrong.
Instead of empowering themto do their best work.
(07:16):
Exactly.
Simon actually shares some personalstories about that too, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
She talks about the anxiety she felt.
Okay.
Due to Inconsistent leave policiesat a previous company, never quite
knowing if taking time off to carefor her children would be paid or not.
Oh, wow.
That kind of uncertaintyreally eats away at trust.
(07:38):
And makes you question the company'strue commitment to their employees.
Yeah.
And it's almost like those policies, Yeah.
Create this expectation that youhave to prove you're working all
the time, even when you're not.
And I've heard thatcalled performative work.
Yes.
Where employees feelpressured to constantly be on.
Totally.
(07:58):
Even to the point of burnout.
Exactly.
And Simon experienced this first hand.
Really?
She shares this.
Pretty harrowing story about gettinginto a serious car accident, directly
caused by exhaustion from overworking.
And she was pushing herself toalleviate her employer's anxieties
about her remote work performance.
(08:19):
So it's a really stark reminderof the very real human cost.
of a lack of trust and the pressureto constantly prove your worth.
Yeah, it's a powerful example ofhow a lack of trust can actually
undermine productivity and well being.
Totally.
Even if it's not, always asdramatic as a car accident.
(08:40):
So many people arestruggling with burnout.
Oh yeah.
From this always on culture.
For sure.
What are some of the other waysthat this pressure manifests,
maybe in less obvious ways?
I think it can show up as presenteeismwhere people are online but
not truly engaged or a fear ofdisconnecting even for short periods.
It can lead to, difficultyprioritizing and setting boundaries.
(09:01):
And ultimately it just erodes creativityand innovation because people are so
focused on proving they're workingthat they don't have the mental
space to actually do their best work.
That makes so much sense.
Yeah.
So how do we break free from this cycle?
Simon talks about building trust.
But how do we actually do that?
Yeah.
Especially when so manytraditional workplace structures.
(09:25):
Yeah.
Seem designed to do the opposite.
Yeah.
I think Simon proposes thisthree pronged approach.
Okay.
First one is.
Emphasizing the importance of trulyvaluing employees and upholding
company values consistently.
So it's about moving beyond lipservice and demonstrating through
actions that you trust your team.
(09:47):
So this could mean things likeoffering flexible work arrangements.
with that question orprioritizing employee well
being or providing opportunitiesfor professional development.
So it's about walking the walk.
Yeah, exactly.
Not just talking the talk.
For sure.
What about her other suggestions?
So the second strategy focuses onempowering managers, giving them
(10:09):
the autonomy to make decisions andsupport their teams effectively.
Okay.
And this demonstrates trustin their leadership and helps
create A more responsive andsupportive work environment.
Think about it.
Yeah.
If managers feelmicromanaged and distrustful.
Yeah.
That attitude is gonnatrickle down to their team.
So it's like creating a cultureof trust from the top down.
(10:31):
Totally.
What's the third piece of the puzzle?
Okay, so the third strategyis all about understanding.
Okay.
What it actually means to be trustworthy.
Okay.
So this involves a degreeof self reflection.
Both on an individualand organizational level.
Are you truly living upto your stated values?
Are you modeling the behaviorsyou expect from others?
(10:53):
Yeah.
It's about recognizing that buildingtrust is an ongoing process.
Not a one time fit.
And not just checking a box.
Yeah.
Okay, so it sounds like there needsto be this pretty fundamental shift.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In how we approach leadershipand workplace culture, Simon
also talks about the differencebetween transparency and trust.
(11:14):
Yes.
Can you unpack that a little bit?
Yeah, sure.
It seems like those two conceptsare often used interchangeably.
Yeah, and that's a crucial distinction.
Transparency is about providinginformation and context.
But it's not the same as trust.
Okay.
Simon argues that sometimestransparency can even be used.
Okay.
to mask a lack of trust.
For example, Yeah.
(11:35):
If a company is constantly monitoringemployees, and sharing that data
under the guise of transparency, Okay.
it can actually create amore distrustful environment.
Because it feels like you'rebeing watched and judged.
Exactly.
Even if you're doing everything right.
Totally.
It seems like real trust goes deeperthan just sharing information.
(11:55):
Yeah, for sure.
It's about believing in people'sintentions and capabilities.
Speaking of believing in people.
Yeah.
I know Simon is a big proponentof visionary leadership.
I've always found thatconcept a little bit nebulous.
Yeah.
What does it actually mean to be?
A visionary leader, especially in thiscontext of remote and hybrid work.
(12:16):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah.
And I think it's especially relevant now.
Simon often quotes leadershipcoach Carrie Twigg.
Who says that leaders withoutvision are just managers.
Interesting.
So visionary leaders are able tolook beyond the day to day tasks
and inspire their team with a clearsense of purpose and direction.
(12:37):
Okay.
They're able to anticipate futurechallenges and opportunities and they're
willing to take risks and embrace change.
So it's not just aboutmanaging the status quo.
Exactly.
It's about guiding the teamtowards something bigger.
Yeah.
Even if that something isconstantly evolving, right?
I know Simon has a great story.
He does.
About how her own visionaryleadership style led to this
(12:58):
major breakthrough for her team.
Yes, she completelyredefined her team's scope.
Wow.
Pushing beyond traditional boundaries.
Okay.
And this bold move driven by her visionand trust in her team actually led to
a billion dollar business relationship.
Wow.
It's a powerful example of what'spossible when leaders have the courage
(13:19):
to trust their intuition and empowertheir teams to achieve ambitious goals.
That's incredibly inspiring.
It is.
But how do these grand ideas aboutTrust and vision actually translate
into the nitty gritty of designinga workplace, especially one that's
increasingly hybrid or remote.
That's where Simon gets really practical.
(13:40):
She outlines this framework for a trustbased approach to workplace design.
Okay.
And it centers around three key areas.
Okay.
First, she emphasizes the importanceof clearly defined strategies, goals,
and expectations for employees.
Okay.
This ensures that everyone understandshow their individual work contributes
to the company's overall vision.
(14:00):
And it reduces ambiguity.
It's about providing thatclarity and direction even when
people are physically dispersed.
Totally.
What else does she recommend?
So Simon also highlights theimportance of crafting authentic and
consistent narratives around work.
Okay.
This means ensuring that the company'sactions align with their stated values.
(14:21):
It's about telling a cohesive story.
Yeah.
That resonates withemployees and businesses.
Builds trust I imagine this is wherethe storytelling element comes in it is
can you elaborate on that a bit more?
Yeah, it seems like a powerfulbut potentially tricky tool.
Absolutely.
Simon is a big believer Yeah in thepower of storytelling to shape workplace
(14:42):
culture Okay, but she cautions againstmanipulative storytelling, right?
You can't just tell a good story Yeah,your actions had to back it up right
if there's a disconnect between thenarrative and the reality Yeah It actually
erodes trust and creates cynicism.
So it's about being genuineand walking the walk.
Exactly.
Yeah.
What kind of stories do you thinkcompanies should be telling to
(15:04):
foster a more trusting and humancentered, That's a great question.
And I think it's something everyorganization needs to consider carefully.
Yeah.
It's about telling stories thatcelebrate individual contributions.
Highlight acts of trust and collaboration.
Yeah.
And acknowledge challenges, honestly.
It's about creating a narrative.
(15:25):
Yeah.
That resonates withemployees lived experiences.
And inspires them to be their best selves.
So it's not just abouttelling positive stories.
It's about telling real stories.
Yeah.
That reflect the complexities ofwork and the human experience.
Exactly.
What are some other ways thatorganizations can foster.
Yeah.
A more trusting and humancentered work environment.
(15:46):
Especially in this evolvinglandscape of hybrid and remote work.
One crucial aspect is.
One crucial aspect is.
Recognizing and accommodatingthe diverse needs of employees.
That makes sense, especially ina hybrid or remote setting, where
people are juggling differentschedules and responsibilities.
Exactly.
It's about offering flexibility, notjust in terms of where people work,
but also when and how they work.
(16:07):
So it's about trusting employees to managetheir own time and workload effectively,
rather than imposing rigid structuresthat might not work for everyone.
And it's also about creating aculture where people feel comfortable
asking for what they need withoutfear of being judged or penalized.
That sense of psychologicalsafety is so important.
(16:28):
Because if people don't feel safe speakingup, then you're never going to truly
know what's working and what's not.
Simon makes a really interestingpoint about the link between
trust and adaptability.
I'm curious to hear more about that.
How does trust enableadaptability in the workplace?
She argues that when there's ahigh level of trust, people are
(16:48):
more willing to embrace change andexperiment with new ways of working.
Because they know that they're notgoing to be punished for making
mistakes or for trying somethingnew that might not work out.
Exactly.
And that willingness to experiment isessential for organizations to thrive
in today's rapidly changing world.
It's about creating that environment ofpsychological safety, where people feel
(17:08):
empowered to take risks and innovate.
And to learn from your failuresas well as their successes.
That growth mindset is so important,but it can be hard to cultivate in a
culture that's obsessed with perfection.
Which is why trust is so fundamental,because it creates the space for
people to be vulnerable, to admitwhen they don't know something, and
to ask for help when they need it.
(17:30):
It's about recognizing that we'reall learning and growing together.
And that it's okay tonot have all the answers.
And I think Simon's own careerjourney is a great example of this.
She talks about how she transitionedfrom a traditional corporate role to
becoming a hybrid remote work consultant.
So she was actually living andbreathing these principles before
she started advising others on them.
(17:50):
Exactly.
And what's so inspiring about her storyis that she was an early advocate for
remote work within her own company,even when it wasn't widely accepted.
She was ahead of the curve, and shehad to deal with a lot of pushback
and skepticism along the way.
But she persevered because she believedin the power of flexible work to create
a better balance between work and life.
And now she's using her experience tohelp other companies make that transition
(18:13):
to a more human centered way of working.
It's a great example of how wecan all be agents of change within
our own organizations and beyond.
And it's also a reminder that it'snever too late to reinvent yourself.
It's about being open to new possibilitiesand embracing the unknown with a
confident relationship with the unknown.
(18:35):
Going back to that brilliantdefinition from Botsman.
And that's what Nola Simon is all about.
She's a visionary leader who'shelping us create a better
future of work for everyone.
And I think her work is morerelevant than ever as we continue
to navigate the complexities ofthe hybrid remote work landscape.
So if you're looking for inspiration,guidance, and practical advice on how
to build, Trust, foster vision, andcreate a more human centered workplace.
(18:58):
I highly recommend checkingout Nola Simon's work.
You can find her on LinkedInSubstack and her podcast, The
Hybrid Remote Center of Excellence.
And with that, I think we'llwrap up this deep dive.
It's been a fascinating conversation, andI hope you've all gained some valuable
insights into how to lead effectively andbuild trust in this new world of work.
(19:19):
I know I have.
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks.
I'll see you next time.
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