NAMI joined Macy’s Social Impact Collaborative, along with the Trust for Public Land and other nonprofit organizations, to conduct a study with the goal of gaining a better understanding of what is impacting youth mental health – directly from young people themselves. In this episode, guest host Kate Kennedy-Lynch talks with NAMI Associate Medical Director Dr. Christine Crawford, the Trust for Public Land’s Dr. Pooja Tandon, and Taanvi Arekapudi, a young person who participated in the youth study. Together, they will discuss key findings from the study, where young people are looking for help, how outdoor time can help families and young people, and advice for talking to young people about mental health concerns.
As students head back to classrooms this month, discover all that NAMI's Back to School resources can offer. Visit NAMI's Back to School resource hub for more ways to connect with young people heading back to school and support them through their new routines. Check out nami.org/BackToSchool to learn more.
You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.
"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.
Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.
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(00:00):
There are some positives to technology,and I think that there are opportunities
to find a community there for some people,but it's really finding that balance.
I often talk about this idea of green timeinstead of screen time.
What we know that we need to do lessmedia and less social media.
But what is the alternativeand how can we create those opportunities
(00:20):
for young people to engage in movementand play in outdoor time
that is restorative, that is beneficialfor their mental health?
Welcome to Hope StartsWith Us a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
I'm your guest host KateKennedy-Lynch, NAMI's Director
of External Relationsjoining Hope Starts With Us today.
(00:42):
Thank you for joining this communityby tuning in.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
Hope starts with us sharing our stories.
Hope starts with us breaking the stigma.
(01:04):
If you or a loved one is strugglingwith a mental health condition
and have been looking for hope,we made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episode,with each conversation brings
you into that collectiveso that you know you are not alone.
Hi, my name is Kate Kennedy-Lynchand I'm the Director
of External Relations for NAMI National.
(01:27):
That means that I sit on the StrategicAlliances and Development team
and have the immense pleasure of workingwith many of our corporate partners
and supportersand a lot of our strategic partners
as well to ensure that the workthat NAMI does is supported
and can continue forward.
And we're so excitedto be having this conversation today.
(01:48):
For today's episode,we are digging into youth mental health.
NAMI joined the Macy's Social ImpactCollaborative, which was created
in an effort to join forcesbetween companies and nonprofits
to do more for today's young people.
Guided by the shared principleof providing voice, choice, and ownership,
Macy's and NAMI Trust for Public Land,Active Minds, Big Brothers, Big Sisters,
(02:09):
Girls Inc., Good Shepherd Services,The Judd Foundation
and Reading Is Fundamentalcoordinated a youth study to learn
what young people are concerned aboutand learn where organizations can make
a positive impact on those concerned.
This is a real are all star list ofnonprofit partners.
We're so happy to be aligned with.
(02:31):
The youth study was done in partnershipwith the Youth Scan Project,
a youth philanthropy project.
Youth Scan asked the collection of 66young people to submit up to three topics
they are concerned about.
Mental healthwas submitted by 73% of participants.
Our gueststoday are joining us to talk about
some of the key findingsfrom this research and dig
a little bit deeperabout what these results could mean.
(02:52):
Todaywe are joined by our incredible panelists,
Taanvi Arekapudi, high school studentwho participated in the Macy's
Social Impact Collaborative and providedinsight into youth experiences.
Dr. Christine Crawford,NAMI's own associate medical director
and a child psychiatrist, and Dr.
Pooja Sarin Tandon, Health Directorat the Trust for Public Land.
Thank you everyone, for joining us today.
(03:14):
We're so thrilled to have you.
I'd like to startactually with Taanvi and sharing
how you became involved with the Macy'sSocial Impact
Collaborative Youth research.
Thank you so much for having mepart of this podcast, Kate.
I'm so excited to be here today.
So to start off with the question,how did I get connected with the Macy's
youth opportunity?
(03:34):
So basically last year I went to the NAMI,the National Alliance on Mental illness
2024 convention.
I went there because I was receivingthe National NAMI Youth Award,
and I got to meet Jennifer Rothman there,and actually I was contacting her
through email before the event.
And at the end,like when we were saying 'bye,'
she mentioned that there is an opportunityto connect with Macy's.
(03:54):
And I said I'd love any opportunity.
I'm always passionate,like any mental health way
I can advocate to be apart of those opportunities.
And then,I think it was last September,
she sent an email with the applicationprocess for the Macy's youth team
and more information.
And I was super excited, I applied.
I think it was like a Google form.
And then in October,they mentioned that I got in and accepted.
(04:16):
And then we had,I think every two weeks on Tuesdays
we had meetingsto talk about all these different topics
around health, including mental health.
And I really, really lovedafter school on Tuesdays,
getting to meet people from acrossthe nation, youth my age, 14 through 18.
And they got to sharetheir diverse perspectives.
And I think like just being in schooland like having lunch with friends,
(04:39):
I hear different thingsand actually talking
about global health issues with peoplefrom different states, different life
experiences and backgrounds.
So I was very grateful that, from Octoberlast year to this March,
I was part of the Macy's group, learnedso much, and was excited to hear that
a lot of the things that we said, usbeing vulnerable
about our experiences, helped changeand make a difference for more youth.
(05:03):
Yeah, it's so true.
We're so gladthat you were able to participate.
So important tohave your voice, as NAMI always says
nothing about us without us.
So we're so happy that we had your voiceand the voices of your cohort members
on that panel.
Pooja, as Trust for Public Lands'Health Director, and Christine,
as a child psychiatrist and now NAMI'sassociate medical director, are you at all
(05:26):
surprised to learn that 73%,which I think is
pretty impressive myself,but as professionals,
are you surprised to hearthat 73% of youth respondents chose mental
health as the top concern based onwhat you see in your everyday life?
I can jump in first,I mean, so I wear two hats
(05:47):
as a pediatricianor primary care pediatrician.
I am not surprised because this reflectswhat I'm seeing in my clinical practice,
particularly since the COVID pandemic,the amount of patients, children,
youth coming in with mental healthconcerns is higher than anything
I've seen in the past,you know, 20, 30 years
of being a pediatrician.
(06:08):
So in that way, I'm not surprised.
I also think youth todayare much more aware and honest
about their concerns around mental health.
I think there's more conversationabout this in schools.
We're not--we're not at a placewhere there's enough conversation
and there is still stigma.
And I think that that came through insome of the findings here.
(06:30):
But I think that that may be a positivecultural shift that's allowing youth
to bring this topic upmore as something of critical importance.
And we know it's really importantin terms of public health.
And I totally agree with that as wellbecause it's amazing
how invested in mental healthour young people are.
(06:52):
And they know that it's criticalfor all aspects of their lives.
Like if their mental health is unsound,then everything else isn't going
to, you know, be as it should.
And so I do thinkthat this is a reflection of young people
feeling empoweredto talk about their mental health
and to talk about their mental healthto the adults in their lives,
(07:14):
because we're also seeing thatkids are actually getting into treatment.
They're actually getting into care.
And that's just a reflectionof how receptive the caregivers
and parents are to actually acting onwhat is happening with their child's
mental health.
And I also believe that at school,teachers are getting better.
(07:35):
They've always been fantasticat being able to point out
whether or not a kidis struggling with their mood
or having behavioral issues,but I do think that there's been
a lot more education for our teachersand other folks in the schools
to feel comfortable identifyinga potential mental health concern
and then relayingthat concern to the parents
(07:55):
and caregivers of that kid.
Yeah, that's such a good point, too,because as we know at NAMI,
so much of our focus is on the personwho lives with mental health condition,
but it's also on the familyand supporting the families.
So knowing that,you know, parents and caregivers
and teachers and coaches,all the people who touch kids lives
are getting the resources that they needor seemingly getting the resources
(08:16):
that they need is so important to that.
There were a few majorthemes that came out of this--these
focus groups and the study.
And a few of those were academicburnout, pressure, and stress,
social media and other two--new technologies like AI and deepfakes,
social isolation, and feelingsof disconnection, and mental health
(08:38):
conditions like depression, anxiety,as well as concerns about suicide.
Taanvi, does any one of these topicsstick out to you as an area
that organizations should focus on more?
That's a really good question.
I feel like all of them are superimportant for organizations to focus on,
but when I really think about it,I feel like suicide and social media
(08:58):
are like the biggest ones.
Of course, all the others are important,but the ones that, from my experiences
as a student in the classroomsevery day, is what I feel.
And to go off like suicide a bit more,I think,
although it's a very serious topicand the rates are increasing
extremely high at this point,there's not enough education around it.
(09:18):
And even if, like for example,everyone in the school is trained,
the coaches, the mentors, the teachers,there's also not enough time in the day
to actually understand,see the warning signs between students,
and then help them.
There's a lack of like,maybe you see a student who's off,
but then the distance that teachersand students have, sometimes, teachers
don't feel comfortableto actually go up to a student
(09:39):
because maybe they don't know themthe right way.
They don't know what to say.
They don't know what to ask.
And every student is different.
So I feel like even no matterhow much work that we do around suicide
prevention, it's still extremely hardbecause person to person, it differs.
And then the way that we can recognizewarning signs,
it shows up in different ways.
But then again, organizations--the best thing that I would say
(10:00):
that organizations locally would dois try to educate people
that these different wayssuicide can come up
or ideation can come up within students,but also giving some resources
that the teachers can tell studentsto go to like 988 or--because
a lot of times teachers don't know how tohelp, even though they're trusted adults,
because no one has taught them.
(10:20):
So referring students to actual resourcesthat can help are really important.
And I would say, like,once we get more awareness,
more information,more education around suicide prevention,
the biggest outcome isthat it can save lives.
And I think organizations putting thatat a priority is so important,
especially coming after the pandemicand the amount of social media uses. And
(10:43):
students' mental health, I would say,is the biggest crisis right now
and we need to help,starting with suicide prevention
and then going off of social media.
I'm very passionate about the topicof social media, and actually I'm part
of the American Academy of PediatricsYouth Advisory
panel, talking specificallyabout social media and mental health.
(11:04):
And something that I've learneda lot is like,
let's say I'm 16 years old right now.
I've lived my entire lifehaving access to social media,
maybe a phone, or nowa school computer that I use.
I've always been able to access socialmedia, whether it was my choice or not,
but I feel like a lot of adultsthat I talk to seem
to only thinkthat I'm wanting to use social media.
(11:26):
But truly,I don't know a life without social media.
And I think that it's importantto understand that we don't know--we've
never learned how to use it properly,how to use it safely.
Adults have never learned,so none of us know how to do it properly
in our daily lives.
So if anything aroundsocial media comes up,
maybe some cyberbullying, you're comparingyourself, you're having low self-esteem.
(11:47):
We don't know how to deal with it.
And we also think it's just usbecause we don't openly talk
about how we use social media.
We talk about, yeah, I go on YouTube,I go on TikTok or Instagram,
but we don't say, I feel maybe, guiltywhen other people are having fun
and I'm doing this work orI feel like left out all these emotions.
We don't know how to process them.
(12:07):
But the biggest thing, organizations,I would say, there's an opportunity
for them to dothere is to educate students
and even adults about boundariesthat youth can set,
like maybe setting time limitsor knowing that there's a the time
to work on learning information,doing your homework at school,
and then some time to relaxthat you can be on your phone
so students can start to learn,even if they're like adults
(12:28):
now 18 years old, they can still learn.
So their future, they don't spendthe entire time on social media,
but they have a good balance.
So definitely like going back, suicideprevention
and social media are extremely importantas well as other factors.
But we need to make sure that evenif we're not completely
promoting everythingand reaching every single student,
(12:50):
that we're doing our best and we'recontinuously trying to improve on that.
That was the most eloquent--Ithink you--actually Taanvi,
as the mother of young kids,much younger than you,
but I feel like I have learned from youhow to parent my
children and learn how to guide theminto this chapter where they're
interacting with social media.
So thank you for that.
I was very helpful advice.
(13:12):
Dr. Crawford and Pooja.
What can we-- what do you thinkfrom your professional perspectives
on the topics that Taanvihighlighted there
in terms of suicide and social media?
Yeah, I really do think the biggest thingis about prevention, right?
In my mind, as a psychiatrist,suicide is the negative outcomes
and negative consequencesof not having good mental health to begin
(13:35):
with.
Right?
So thinking about whatare all of the elements that are necessary
for a young personto be well, socially and emotionally.
And what we are noticing isthat kids are experiencing
significant rates of loneliness nowpeople are living in households
(13:57):
with a whole bunch of folkswalking around under the same roof,
but people are really disconnectedfrom each other.
They're not routinelyhaving conversations,
checking in, "how are you doing?"and really meaning it, too.
There are not as many opportunitiesin a lot of families
(14:19):
to have meals together, which oftentimeswas the place where people would connect.
Family members would talk about their upsand their downs,
and people will be able to noticeif there were certain changes
in their behaviorand how they're presenting.
But it seems like folks are,I don't know, just not as connected
and engagedas much as they were before
(14:40):
because there's so many more distractions.
Now we talked about social media, butjust having access to technology, period,
it always means that we're connectedto something else when we're at home.
Right? So even the idea of dinner time.
Say if you do have dinnerwith your family--phones are on the table.
(15:01):
You have a parent checking their inbox.
You have a kid who's playing a video game.
And so the quality of the connectionisn't as strong
because we're constantly distractedby the devices that we have in our hands.
So I really do think thatif we just go back to basics
connection, connection, connection,being curious about what's happening
(15:23):
within your own family,within your own social circles,
and to really mean itwhen you ask the question,
how are you doing?
And to model that behavior too.
You know,if someone's asking you the question,
instead of giving the typical responsive,oh yeah, "I'm doing okay,"
instead of just saying that, how about youtell them how you actually feel?
(15:44):
Because that's going to makea huge difference to that other person.
Like, whoa,you shared all of that with me?
Okay.
Well,maybe I should be vulnerable as well.
And we need to do more of thatin real life than relying on our phones
and other forms of technology to do so.
Yeah.
Such a good point, Dr.
Tandon, do you have other thoughts?
Yeah, I love that focus on prevention.
(16:07):
And, you know, one of--Iread an article recently about this idea
of social media, and I really appreciate,Taanvi, what you said that, you know,
you grew up with this and, you know,why are children turning to social media?
And one thought, one interesting theory inthis was it's one of the very few places
where young people don't have adultshelicoptering them.
(16:29):
And it was like an interesting take on,and also a reflection of this idea of,
you know, how children--what childhoodlooks like these days, where children
are spending so much time in adultdirected spaces and activities and going
from this sort of overscheduled thingto the next thing and, with always,
you know, adults telling them what to do.
(16:51):
And so it's not--yes,social media is addictive.
And the companies,I think their algorithm's meant to
keep us hooked in there.
But I think it was an interestingthought of like, what else is happening
in the ways that childrenare growing up in homes in terms of family
meals, in terms of those connections,in terms of opportunities to connect
with peers and community members,that this is the place where some people
(17:14):
are finding their community.
And, you know, I think there aresome positives to technology,
and I think that there are opportunitiesto find a community there for some people,
but it's really finding that balancein both quality and quantity.
So I always think of like screen timeas, you know, like you're
(17:35):
just like our food diet.
Like what does your media diet consist of.
And there can be too much of it.
So it can be just purelike amount of hours.
And we know young people spend, and all ofus spend way too much time on there.
But then there's the quality of that diettoo, you know, are we consuming media
that is age inappropriate,that is making us think badly
about our bodies,that is, you know, harmful to us?
(17:58):
And so I thinkwhen we think about both of those--and
then finally, like,what is the alternative?
And, that's where my other hatas a Trust for Public Land comes
in, where I oftentalk about this idea of "green time
instead of screen time."And you know what?
What we know that we need to do lessmedia and less social media.
(18:18):
But what is the alternativeand how can we create those opportunities
for young people to engagein, you know, in movement,
and play, and outdoortime that is restorative, that is,
beneficialfor their mental health and really
puts them, puts all of us on that trackto preventing the problems
(18:40):
that can lead to, you know,the more serious outcomes like suicide.
Yeah.
And it's really--we were so excitedto be able to talk to you today because
the idea of talking about,you know, sort of online safety
or being comfortable onlineand knowing how to handle it,
seemsso well positioned to line up the Trust
(19:01):
for Public Lands work,which is really like really focused
on, to use an internet phrase,like touching grass.
And so, Dr.
Tandon, your research has focusedon children's health and healthy behaviors
and reducing disparities,especially around play.
So can you tell us more about that,about play,
or that physical activityand outdoor time, that green time,
(19:24):
and how that actually impactsyoung people's health?
Yeah, one term I've been using more latelyis "play equity."
So it's this idea of opportunitiesfor physical activity, sports, outdoor
recreation, and accessto those opportunities
as a way of promoting healthand health equity,
because we know that both--and,you know, I'll say here, both kind
(19:45):
of the structured physical activitywhich for young people usually
takes the form of sports or being in teamsand unstructured child youth directed
opportunitiesfor physical activity, movement, outdoor
time, I think they're both criticaland they both play a role in that.
So, you know, lots of evidence to suggestthat that being part of a sports team,
(20:07):
for example, being part of that community,engaging--you know, what is it?
It's providing something that childrencan engage in after school
that maybe is getting them off screensor getting them out of other,
unhealthy behaviors.
So I think there's a place for that.
And, but, you know, it's not for everyone.
So I think all children also needopportunities from you know,
(20:32):
really birth to older teens,for those opportunities of spending time
outdoors, being physically active,both of which
have a substantial evidence basenow that they are important for
and associated with fewersymptoms of depression, of anxiety,
of lifting our mood.
(20:53):
And we know that unfortunately,not everyone has the same access
to those spaces, particularly inand around their neighborhoods,
in and around their schools.
You know, we--the national parks are amazing.
Those deep wilderness,immersive experiences in nature
can be so restorative,but are not possible on a regular basis.
And so I really like to thinkabout those nearby nature,
(21:15):
those opportunities in our school yards,in our neighborhoods,
that can provide restorative environments,our parks, where children, youth
and really can also engagein those intergenerational opportunities.
The relational health piece of this,we haven't talked about as much.
Well, we focus on physical health,mental health, and how do we create those
(21:37):
connections with caring adultsthat are going to also support,
mental healthand young people to be more resilient
when things don't, you know, go as plannedsometimes.
Yeah, absolutely.
I will share, too, that--soI have two little kids
and we just bought a bunch of jump ropes,and made that our outdoor activity
(21:58):
over the long weekend this past weekend.
And it was very humbling as a grownupto go back out there and jump rope again.
But it was so wonderful, like my son'spreschool sent home a note about,
you know, how valuable outside time isand how important it is for them to,
you know, even just see the birds andwatch the clouds go by and see airplanes.
(22:20):
And, just thinking aboutthat made me feel so
much like there'sa support system for him.
And, you know,they really want them to be outside
and focuson the importance of outside time.
So very muchrelate with that, so thank you.
You know, in addition, NAMIhas a lot of resources for young people,
especially now, warning signs of mentalhealth conditions and suicide.
(22:43):
Which ties right into whatTaanvi was noting, too.
So, Dr.
Crawford, what do you find to bea successful way to approach these topics
with young people and with their parentsin your conversations?
And do you have any advice for teenswho want to talk about mental health
related concerns with their peers?
Yeah.
When I--first thinking about the conversations
(23:06):
that are happeninginside of the homes, conversations
between young peopleand the adults in their lives,
I notice that a lot of conversationswhen it comes to mental
health can be quicklyshut down by the adults
because of their level of discomfort,hearing that their kid is experiencing
(23:26):
distress.
Right?
It's hard for parentsto tolerate their kid not doing well.
It's hard.
And so often timesparents provide immediate reassurance
to the child and says things like, "oh no,you shouldn't be worried about that." "Oh
no, no need to be sad.
(23:46):
It's not a big deal." We do thatall the time, but when we do it,
we're really doing it to mitigateour own anxiety, our own discomfort.
But when we do that,we're actually closing the door
on an opportunity for connection,for an opportunity for the child
to actually communicate what's goingon, to be vulnerable with their parent,
(24:09):
and to share what are some of the thingsthat perhaps they've already explore
to help manage the current stressorsthat they're experiencing.
But as parents, we're problem solvers, sowe always kind of lead the conversation.
But I think one tip for folksto think about in their own homes
(24:30):
with their kids is to let the teenor your kid lead the conversation.
Right?
And so the way that you can createthat space is to be curious
about your kids' experience.
And so if you always appear curiousabout what's happening in your kid's life,
about how it isthey're thinking and they're feeling,
(24:50):
then they might feel a little bitmore inclined to share more,
because there doesn'tseem to be a lot of judgment.
And that's kind of in the air. Right?
And so if a teen or a kidis actually opening up to you as an adult,
you got to just sit on your handsand listen.
Keep your mouth shut, right?
(25:10):
Listen, listen, listen.
And toask them, okay, what is it
that I can do to support you?
What could--in your mindhow could I be most helpful for you
in this moment of time? Right?
Because a lot of parentsthink that they're providing support,
that they're helpful,and they'll say things like,
"oh, well, I offered to take them tothe movies." "Oh, I offered to do this."
(25:34):
Yeah, but that's not the form of supportthat they needed in that moment of time.
That's what you wanted to do.
But that wasn't helpful to the kid.
They didn't want that.
And so you need to allow your kidto tell you how you can be helpful.
So that's really important.
Now the question about, like, peer-to-peerconversations among young people,
that's a really interesting onebecause it's all about safety, right?
(25:59):
It's about who do you feelsafe sharing all this information with?
Because information can spreadlike wildfire, at a high school
or in a middle school. Right?
And so that lack of trustor safety is oftentimes
a major barrier to kidswanting to open up to another kid.
And that's why--and again,we're not bashing on social media at all,
(26:22):
because I think it's a very powerful toolwhen leveraged well.
But I do think that's why peersare having these conversations online,
because it is safer in the sensethat you're having these conversations
with a selected group of individualswho are like in the same, you know, chat
room or following the same influencer.
(26:44):
You know what I mean?
So, you know that these are your people,but out in the wild
in your school, you don't know,like how people are really feeling.
And so I think people are, feeling likeonline in conversations is safer.
But try it out, testit out, share little pieces of information
with your friendand see what it looks like over time.
(27:08):
If you share one thing, does Sarah,you know, from,
you know, period two gym class, doesshe found out?
And if you notice that thingsseem to be kept within that person
then maybe over time,you could start to reveal more
because you knowthat person is a trusted individual?
Taanvi, just, off the cuff here,do you agree with Dr.
(27:30):
Crawford?
Like in your experience, in yourcurrent life and in your lived experience,
do you agree?
You know, have you found what Dr.
Crawford is interesting to sort of workand apply in everyday life?
Yeah, I would definitely say like a lotof the things that you were saying, Dr.
Crawford, really resonated withlike what I see in my own classrooms,
with my own peers.
And I like the idea of, like trying to saythings little by little to your peers.
(27:54):
And I feel like one of the biggest thingsthat I'm experiencing right now,
like in my own classroom with my ownteachers, is like a lot of teachers
with our school budget cuts,there's like 50 students in a classroom.
So the teachers also don't get enough timeto talk with the students
and check in one-on-one to see, like,how their mental health is doing.
So of coursethey're going to talk to their peers.
But then I don't think like peersreally know like,
(28:16):
how are you supposed to help your friend?
What are you supposed to dowhen your friend says something?
And I like what you said about like,we say thing
is just to mitigate our own anxietiesand our own fears.
And I noticed, like I do that all the timein school in certain situations.
Because it's also like,if my friend tells me
during passing period for five minutesthat she failed a test.
(28:37):
Like the only thing in that momentI can say is, "oh, I'm sorry." "Oh,
that's so annoying." But since I only havelike one minute with her, then
I can't really talk moreand have a better conversation,
which is where I guesssocial media comes in.
Maybe after schoolI can check in with them.
I can debrief and ask, "hey,is everything okay?
I didn't get to talk to you too much,"so I think that's a really helpful point.
(28:59):
And then, what you said earlierabout parents and talking to our parents,
I noticed, I think last year I was having,like, a conversation with my dad,
and I was very stressedabout, like, the whole workload
of what I was doing in school.
So I tell him.
But then I remember before telling him,I should tell him that
I just want him to listen, becausea lot of times he jumps up with solutions
(29:21):
and they're helpful.
But like,after like eight hours of school,
I just want to tell somebodyand just have it out of my head.
I don't want like a solution.
Oh, I should time manage better,I should have a schedule
or anything like that.
So whenever I tell him, "just listen.
That's all I want from you right now,"he does a really good job of
just listening because he knowsthe response is just like, "okay, heard,
(29:41):
and let me knowif there's anything I can do."
And I think just telling--likeif any youth is listening,
telling a parent beforehandor guardian or teacher
that you just want them to listen,it can help them feel better
because they're like,oh, that's the only thing I need to do.
I can definitely listen, but it can alsohelp you feel better and like more
ready for their response.
So just like gratitude for sharing.
(30:02):
And then also,I wanted to add on to what Dr.
Tandon said earlier.
I've never really thought aboutlike as being a mental health
advocate and doing the work aroundhow can I help my peers
when they're going through anxietyor depression or stress?
I've always thought about like,meditation, mindfulness,
or coping strategieslike breathing techniques,
but never really about like play,the physical activity
(30:25):
that you do the exerciseor things that you do,
like maybe building things with your handsor going to parks.
And I just like connected that we goto school for like 7 or 8 hours a day.
We come back,we have five hours of homework,
and then the only thing we need torelax is scroll or watch TV,
which is another like screen time.
So all that screen time is like 15 hoursa day for students at the minimum.
(30:46):
So I really understandand I want to try to do outdoor play more
just to like enjoy swinging in a parkor doing things
that are not sittingin front of a computer the whole time.
So I really appreciate that,like a new way, a new solution.
I'll just going back to the old timesand what people did when they were free
when they were younger.
So I really like whatboth you said and really connect,
especially from a youth perspective.
(31:07):
That's amazing.
That was such a nice summary, Taanvi.
Thank you. Yeah.
So I think before we conclude,I'd like to ask
you three the question that we askevery podcast guest, which is that
the world can really be a difficult placesometimes
and it can be hard to hold on to hope.
So that's why each episode,we dedicate the last couple of minutes
(31:30):
of our podcast to a special segment calledHold on to Hope. So.
If you're comfortable,can each of you tell us what helps
you hold on to hope?
I can go first.
I feel like for me, likejust an example
this year, like coming into junior year,it's extremely hard with all the workload
(31:50):
and doing everything,catching up on school.
And I feel like there's a lot of timeswhere I'm thinking, like,
what is bringing me hope or what'smaking me excited for the future?
And I think the biggest thingis like probably being with family,
like spending time with familyin the evening or over the weekends.
Maybe I can spend a little bit more timewith them and excited for that.
And recently my sister went to college.
(32:11):
So that's like another thingto be excited for.
I was like,when am I going to meet her next?
So I think just looking forward to breaksand like right now, Thanksgiving break
and then winter break.
And as a student,I feel like that's the biggest thing.
But then it's alsoway too far in the future.
So I try to do thingslike watching a movie today, or
being able to go for a walk,or trying to enjoy things that aren't
(32:35):
way, way in the future, butalso more temporary in the moment things.
So definitely still like trying every dayto look for a new reason to have hope
and to be excited about the day.
But I wonder what you guys thinkas well to that.
Well, one thing that gives me hope,especially as a psychiatrist,
is that mental health advocates aren'tjust folks who are in the mental health
(32:56):
field, but it's everyone.
It's young people, it's pediatricians.
It should be eye doctors.
It could be construction workers.
It has to be everyone,especially when it comes to youth
mental health,because we all have a connection
with a young person in our lives,like we do.
Everyone does.
(33:17):
And so we really want to make surethat our young people
have the toolsand the resources that they need.
And so we have to advocatefor those things.
There are only about 10,000child psychiatrists in the country.
So me and my friends, we can't dothis whole thing alone, you know?
And so I'm really, excitedand it always gives me a sense of hope
(33:39):
having these conversations with peoplewho aren't in the mental health field,
especially young people.
So that definitely gives me hope. Yeah.
What gives me hope iswhen I see young people like you , Taanvi,
who think of themselvesas part of the solution.
I mean, as a society, I feel like we'refacing so many challenges right now. And,
(34:01):
and so, you know,when young people organize to,
you know, advocate for mental healthservices, for climate action,
for creating more inclusive spacesin their schools and their communities,
that gives me a lot of hope,because to me, it shows,
how resilient they are,you all are, and leadership skills
(34:25):
that we know are going to be necessaryfor a brighter and healthier future.
Amazing.
Yeah.
I think thatyou three are giving me a lot of hope.
I think that conversationhas been so inspiring.
I also took a walking meditation.
So, outside yesterday, breathingsome fresh air.
And one of the lines was, you know,it was a guided meditation.
(34:47):
One of the lines was that "thesun is always there, even when it's
cloudy or dark." It's always there.
And so I've been thinking about thata lot as something that's like
a sort of guiding principle.
Ant ties nicely with being outside. So,hopefully everybody can kind of take
that little, that little nugget away, too.
(35:07):
This has been Hope Startswith Us, a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
For more information about youth mentalhealth, please visit NAMI.org/youth.
You'll find resources for teens,young adults, and parents of young kids,
as well as for educatorsand anyone else working with young people.
If you're looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
(35:27):
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit NAMI.org/help.
Text "helpline" to 62640or dial 800-950-NAMI (6264).
If you are experiencingan immediate suicide, substance use,
(35:47):
or mental health crisis,please call or text 988 to speak
with a trained supportspecialist or visit 988lifeline.org.
It has been a pleasureto be your guest today.
Thanks for listening and be well.
There are some positives to technology,and I think that there are opportunities
to find a community there for some people,but it's really finding that balance.
I often talk about this idea of green timeinstead of screen time.
What we know that we need to do lessmedia and less social media.
But what is the alternativeand how can we create those opportunities
(00:20):
for young people to engage in movementand play in outdoor time
that is restorative, that is beneficialfor their mental health?
Welcome to Hope StartsWith Us a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
I'm your guest host KateKennedy-Lynch, NAMI's Director
of External Relationsjoining Hope Starts With Us today.
(00:42):
Thank you for joining this communityby tuning in.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
Hope starts with us sharing our stories.
Hope starts with us breaking the stigma.
(01:04):
If you or a loved one is strugglingwith a mental health condition
and have been looking for hope,we made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episode,with each conversation brings
you into that collectiveso that you know you are not alone.
Hi, my name is Kate Kennedy-Lynchand I'm the Director
of External Relations for NAMI National.
(01:27):
That means that I sit on the StrategicAlliances and Development team
and have the immense pleasure of workingwith many of our corporate partners
and supportersand a lot of our strategic partners
as well to ensure that the workthat NAMI does is supported
and can continue forward.
And we're so excitedto be having this conversation today.
(01:48):
For today's episode,we are digging into youth mental health.
NAMI joined the Macy's Social ImpactCollaborative, which was created
in an effort to join forcesbetween companies and nonprofits
to do more for today's young people.
Guided by the shared principleof providing voice, choice, and ownership,
Macy's and NAMI Trust for Public Land,Active Minds, Big Brothers, Big Sisters,
(02:09):
Girls Inc., Good Shepherd Services,The Judd Foundation
and Reading Is Fundamentalcoordinated a youth study to learn
what young people are concerned aboutand learn where organizations can make
a positive impact on those concerned.
This is a real are all star list ofnonprofit partners.
We're so happy to be aligned with.
(02:31):
The youth study was done in partnershipwith the Youth Scan Project,
a youth philanthropy project.
Youth Scan asked the collection of 66young people to submit up to three topics
they are concerned about.
Mental healthwas submitted by 73% of participants.
Our gueststoday are joining us to talk about
some of the key findingsfrom this research and dig
a little bit deeperabout what these results could mean.
(02:52):
Todaywe are joined by our incredible panelists,
Taanvi Arekapudi, high school studentwho participated in the Macy's
Social Impact Collaborative and providedinsight into youth experiences.
Dr. Christine Crawford,NAMI's own associate medical director
and a child psychiatrist, and Dr.
Pooja Sarin Tandon, Health Directorat the Trust for Public Land.
Thank you everyone, for joining us today.
(03:14):
We're so thrilled to have you.
I'd like to startactually with Taanvi and sharing
how you became involved with the Macy'sSocial Impact
Collaborative Youth research.
Thank you so much for having mepart of this podcast, Kate.
I'm so excited to be here today.
So to start off with the question,how did I get connected with the Macy's
youth opportunity?
(03:34):
So basically last year I went to the NAMI,the National Alliance on Mental illness
2024 convention.
I went there because I was receivingthe National NAMI Youth Award,
and I got to meet Jennifer Rothman there,and actually I was contacting her
through email before the event.
And at the end,like when we were saying 'bye,'
she mentioned that there is an opportunityto connect with Macy's.
(03:54):
And I said I'd love any opportunity.
I'm always passionate,like any mental health way
I can advocate to be apart of those opportunities.
And then,I think it was last September,
she sent an email with the applicationprocess for the Macy's youth team
and more information.
And I was super excited, I applied.
I think it was like a Google form.
And then in October,they mentioned that I got in and accepted.
(04:16):
And then we had,I think every two weeks on Tuesdays
we had meetingsto talk about all these different topics
around health, including mental health.
And I really, really lovedafter school on Tuesdays,
getting to meet people from acrossthe nation, youth my age, 14 through 18.
And they got to sharetheir diverse perspectives.
And I think like just being in schooland like having lunch with friends,
(04:39):
I hear different thingsand actually talking
about global health issues with peoplefrom different states, different life
experiences and backgrounds.
So I was very grateful that, from Octoberlast year to this March,
I was part of the Macy's group, learnedso much, and was excited to hear that
a lot of the things that we said, usbeing vulnerable
about our experiences, helped changeand make a difference for more youth.
(05:03):
Yeah, it's so true.
We're so gladthat you were able to participate.
So important tohave your voice, as NAMI always says
nothing about us without us.
So we're so happy that we had your voiceand the voices of your cohort members
on that panel.
Pooja, as Trust for Public Lands'Health Director, and Christine,
as a child psychiatrist and now NAMI'sassociate medical director, are you at all
(05:26):
surprised to learn that 73%,which I think is
pretty impressive myself,but as professionals,
are you surprised to hearthat 73% of youth respondents chose mental
health as the top concern based onwhat you see in your everyday life?
I can jump in first,I mean, so I wear two hats
(05:47):
as a pediatricianor primary care pediatrician.
I am not surprised because this reflectswhat I'm seeing in my clinical practice,
particularly since the COVID pandemic,the amount of patients, children,
youth coming in with mental healthconcerns is higher than anything
I've seen in the past,you know, 20, 30 years
of being a pediatrician.
(06:08):
So in that way, I'm not surprised.
I also think youth todayare much more aware and honest
about their concerns around mental health.
I think there's more conversationabout this in schools.
We're not--we're not at a placewhere there's enough conversation
and there is still stigma.
And I think that that came through insome of the findings here.
(06:30):
But I think that that may be a positivecultural shift that's allowing youth
to bring this topic upmore as something of critical importance.
And we know it's really importantin terms of public health.
And I totally agree with that as wellbecause it's amazing
how invested in mental healthour young people are.
(06:52):
And they know that it's criticalfor all aspects of their lives.
Like if their mental health is unsound,then everything else isn't going
to, you know, be as it should.
And so I do thinkthat this is a reflection of young people
feeling empoweredto talk about their mental health
and to talk about their mental healthto the adults in their lives,
(07:14):
because we're also seeing thatkids are actually getting into treatment.
They're actually getting into care.
And that's just a reflectionof how receptive the caregivers
and parents are to actually acting onwhat is happening with their child's
mental health.
And I also believe that at school,teachers are getting better.
(07:35):
They've always been fantasticat being able to point out
whether or not a kidis struggling with their mood
or having behavioral issues,but I do think that there's been
a lot more education for our teachersand other folks in the schools
to feel comfortable identifyinga potential mental health concern
and then relayingthat concern to the parents
(07:55):
and caregivers of that kid.
Yeah, that's such a good point, too,because as we know at NAMI,
so much of our focus is on the personwho lives with mental health condition,
but it's also on the familyand supporting the families.
So knowing that,you know, parents and caregivers
and teachers and coaches,all the people who touch kids lives
are getting the resources that they needor seemingly getting the resources
(08:16):
that they need is so important to that.
There were a few majorthemes that came out of this--these
focus groups and the study.
And a few of those were academicburnout, pressure, and stress,
social media and other two--new technologies like AI and deepfakes,
social isolation, and feelingsof disconnection, and mental health
(08:38):
conditions like depression, anxiety,as well as concerns about suicide.
Taanvi, does any one of these topicsstick out to you as an area
that organizations should focus on more?
That's a really good question.
I feel like all of them are superimportant for organizations to focus on,
but when I really think about it,I feel like suicide and social media
(08:58):
are like the biggest ones.
Of course, all the others are important,but the ones that, from my experiences
as a student in the classroomsevery day, is what I feel.
And to go off like suicide a bit more,I think,
although it's a very serious topicand the rates are increasing
extremely high at this point,there's not enough education around it.
(09:18):
And even if, like for example,everyone in the school is trained,
the coaches, the mentors, the teachers,there's also not enough time in the day
to actually understand,see the warning signs between students,
and then help them.
There's a lack of like,maybe you see a student who's off,
but then the distance that teachersand students have, sometimes, teachers
don't feel comfortableto actually go up to a student
(09:39):
because maybe they don't know themthe right way.
They don't know what to say.
They don't know what to ask.
And every student is different.
So I feel like even no matterhow much work that we do around suicide
prevention, it's still extremely hardbecause person to person, it differs.
And then the way that we can recognizewarning signs,
it shows up in different ways.
But then again, organizations--the best thing that I would say
(10:00):
that organizations locally would dois try to educate people
that these different wayssuicide can come up
or ideation can come up within students,but also giving some resources
that the teachers can tell studentsto go to like 988 or--because
a lot of times teachers don't know how tohelp, even though they're trusted adults,
because no one has taught them.
(10:20):
So referring students to actual resourcesthat can help are really important.
And I would say, like,once we get more awareness,
more information,more education around suicide prevention,
the biggest outcome isthat it can save lives.
And I think organizations putting thatat a priority is so important,
especially coming after the pandemicand the amount of social media uses. And
(10:43):
students' mental health, I would say,is the biggest crisis right now
and we need to help,starting with suicide prevention
and then going off of social media.
I'm very passionate about the topicof social media, and actually I'm part
of the American Academy of PediatricsYouth Advisory
panel, talking specificallyabout social media and mental health.
(11:04):
And something that I've learneda lot is like,
let's say I'm 16 years old right now.
I've lived my entire lifehaving access to social media,
maybe a phone, or nowa school computer that I use.
I've always been able to access socialmedia, whether it was my choice or not,
but I feel like a lot of adultsthat I talk to seem
to only thinkthat I'm wanting to use social media.
(11:26):
But truly,I don't know a life without social media.
And I think that it's importantto understand that we don't know--we've
never learned how to use it properly,how to use it safely.
Adults have never learned,so none of us know how to do it properly
in our daily lives.
So if anything aroundsocial media comes up,
maybe some cyberbullying, you're comparingyourself, you're having low self-esteem.
(11:47):
We don't know how to deal with it.
And we also think it's just usbecause we don't openly talk
about how we use social media.
We talk about, yeah, I go on YouTube,I go on TikTok or Instagram,
but we don't say, I feel maybe, guiltywhen other people are having fun
and I'm doing this work orI feel like left out all these emotions.
We don't know how to process them.
(12:07):
But the biggest thing, organizations,I would say, there's an opportunity
for them to dothere is to educate students
and even adults about boundariesthat youth can set,
like maybe setting time limitsor knowing that there's a the time
to work on learning information,doing your homework at school,
and then some time to relaxthat you can be on your phone
so students can start to learn,even if they're like adults
(12:28):
now 18 years old, they can still learn.
So their future, they don't spendthe entire time on social media,
but they have a good balance.
So definitely like going back, suicideprevention
and social media are extremely importantas well as other factors.
But we need to make sure that evenif we're not completely
promoting everythingand reaching every single student,
(12:50):
that we're doing our best and we'recontinuously trying to improve on that.
That was the most eloquent--Ithink you--actually Taanvi,
as the mother of young kids,much younger than you,
but I feel like I have learned from youhow to parent my
children and learn how to guide theminto this chapter where they're
interacting with social media.
So thank you for that.
I was very helpful advice.
(13:12):
Dr. Crawford and Pooja.
What can we-- what do you thinkfrom your professional perspectives
on the topics that Taanvihighlighted there
in terms of suicide and social media?
Yeah, I really do think the biggest thingis about prevention, right?
In my mind, as a psychiatrist,suicide is the negative outcomes
and negative consequencesof not having good mental health to begin
(13:35):
with.
Right?
So thinking about whatare all of the elements that are necessary
for a young personto be well, socially and emotionally.
And what we are noticing isthat kids are experiencing
significant rates of loneliness nowpeople are living in households
(13:57):
with a whole bunch of folkswalking around under the same roof,
but people are really disconnectedfrom each other.
They're not routinelyhaving conversations,
checking in, "how are you doing?"and really meaning it, too.
There are not as many opportunitiesin a lot of families
(14:19):
to have meals together, which oftentimeswas the place where people would connect.
Family members would talk about their upsand their downs,
and people will be able to noticeif there were certain changes
in their behaviorand how they're presenting.
But it seems like folks are,I don't know, just not as connected
and engagedas much as they were before
(14:40):
because there's so many more distractions.
Now we talked about social media, butjust having access to technology, period,
it always means that we're connectedto something else when we're at home.
Right? So even the idea of dinner time.
Say if you do have dinnerwith your family--phones are on the table.
(15:01):
You have a parent checking their inbox.
You have a kid who's playing a video game.
And so the quality of the connectionisn't as strong
because we're constantly distractedby the devices that we have in our hands.
So I really do think thatif we just go back to basics
connection, connection, connection,being curious about what's happening
(15:23):
within your own family,within your own social circles,
and to really mean itwhen you ask the question,
how are you doing?
And to model that behavior too.
You know,if someone's asking you the question,
instead of giving the typical responsive,oh yeah, "I'm doing okay,"
instead of just saying that, how about youtell them how you actually feel?
(15:44):
Because that's going to makea huge difference to that other person.
Like, whoa,you shared all of that with me?
Okay.
Well,maybe I should be vulnerable as well.
And we need to do more of thatin real life than relying on our phones
and other forms of technology to do so.
Yeah.
Such a good point, Dr.
Tandon, do you have other thoughts?
Yeah, I love that focus on prevention.
(16:07):
And, you know, one of--Iread an article recently about this idea
of social media, and I really appreciate,Taanvi, what you said that, you know,
you grew up with this and, you know,why are children turning to social media?
And one thought, one interesting theory inthis was it's one of the very few places
where young people don't have adultshelicoptering them.
(16:29):
And it was like an interesting take on,and also a reflection of this idea of,
you know, how children--what childhoodlooks like these days, where children
are spending so much time in adultdirected spaces and activities and going
from this sort of overscheduled thingto the next thing and, with always,
you know, adults telling them what to do.
(16:51):
And so it's not--yes,social media is addictive.
And the companies,I think their algorithm's meant to
keep us hooked in there.
But I think it was an interestingthought of like, what else is happening
in the ways that childrenare growing up in homes in terms of family
meals, in terms of those connections,in terms of opportunities to connect
with peers and community members,that this is the place where some people
(17:14):
are finding their community.
And, you know, I think there aresome positives to technology,
and I think that there are opportunitiesto find a community there for some people,
but it's really finding that balancein both quality and quantity.
So I always think of like screen timeas, you know, like you're
(17:35):
just like our food diet.
Like what does your media diet consist of.
And there can be too much of it.
So it can be just purelike amount of hours.
And we know young people spend, and all ofus spend way too much time on there.
But then there's the quality of that diettoo, you know, are we consuming media
that is age inappropriate,that is making us think badly
about our bodies,that is, you know, harmful to us?
(17:58):
And so I thinkwhen we think about both of those--and
then finally, like,what is the alternative?
And, that's where my other hatas a Trust for Public Land comes
in, where I oftentalk about this idea of "green time
instead of screen time."And you know what?
What we know that we need to do lessmedia and less social media.
(18:18):
But what is the alternativeand how can we create those opportunities
for young people to engagein, you know, in movement,
and play, and outdoortime that is restorative, that is,
beneficialfor their mental health and really
puts them, puts all of us on that trackto preventing the problems
(18:40):
that can lead to, you know,the more serious outcomes like suicide.
Yeah.
And it's really--we were so excitedto be able to talk to you today because
the idea of talking about,you know, sort of online safety
or being comfortable onlineand knowing how to handle it,
seemsso well positioned to line up the Trust
(19:01):
for Public Lands work,which is really like really focused
on, to use an internet phrase,like touching grass.
And so, Dr.
Tandon, your research has focusedon children's health and healthy behaviors
and reducing disparities,especially around play.
So can you tell us more about that,about play,
or that physical activityand outdoor time, that green time,
(19:24):
and how that actually impactsyoung people's health?
Yeah, one term I've been using more latelyis "play equity."
So it's this idea of opportunitiesfor physical activity, sports, outdoor
recreation, and accessto those opportunities
as a way of promoting healthand health equity,
because we know that both--and,you know, I'll say here, both kind
(19:45):
of the structured physical activitywhich for young people usually
takes the form of sports or being in teamsand unstructured child youth directed
opportunitiesfor physical activity, movement, outdoor
time, I think they're both criticaland they both play a role in that.
So, you know, lots of evidence to suggestthat that being part of a sports team,
(20:07):
for example, being part of that community,engaging--you know, what is it?
It's providing something that childrencan engage in after school
that maybe is getting them off screensor getting them out of other,
unhealthy behaviors.
So I think there's a place for that.
And, but, you know, it's not for everyone.
So I think all children also needopportunities from you know,
(20:32):
really birth to older teens,for those opportunities of spending time
outdoors, being physically active,both of which
have a substantial evidence basenow that they are important for
and associated with fewersymptoms of depression, of anxiety,
of lifting our mood.
(20:53):
And we know that unfortunately,not everyone has the same access
to those spaces, particularly inand around their neighborhoods,
in and around their schools.
You know, we--the national parks are amazing.
Those deep wilderness,immersive experiences in nature
can be so restorative,but are not possible on a regular basis.
And so I really like to thinkabout those nearby nature,
(21:15):
those opportunities in our school yards,in our neighborhoods,
that can provide restorative environments,our parks, where children, youth
and really can also engagein those intergenerational opportunities.
The relational health piece of this,we haven't talked about as much.
Well, we focus on physical health,mental health, and how do we create those
(21:37):
connections with caring adultsthat are going to also support,
mental healthand young people to be more resilient
when things don't, you know, go as plannedsometimes.
Yeah, absolutely.
I will share, too, that--soI have two little kids
and we just bought a bunch of jump ropes,and made that our outdoor activity
(21:58):
over the long weekend this past weekend.
And it was very humbling as a grownupto go back out there and jump rope again.
But it was so wonderful, like my son'spreschool sent home a note about,
you know, how valuable outside time isand how important it is for them to,
you know, even just see the birds andwatch the clouds go by and see airplanes.
(22:20):
And, just thinking aboutthat made me feel so
much like there'sa support system for him.
And, you know,they really want them to be outside
and focuson the importance of outside time.
So very muchrelate with that, so thank you.
You know, in addition, NAMIhas a lot of resources for young people,
especially now, warning signs of mentalhealth conditions and suicide.
(22:43):
Which ties right into whatTaanvi was noting, too.
So, Dr.
Crawford, what do you find to bea successful way to approach these topics
with young people and with their parentsin your conversations?
And do you have any advice for teenswho want to talk about mental health
related concerns with their peers?
Yeah.
When I--first thinking about the conversations
(23:06):
that are happeninginside of the homes, conversations
between young peopleand the adults in their lives,
I notice that a lot of conversationswhen it comes to mental
health can be quicklyshut down by the adults
because of their level of discomfort,hearing that their kid is experiencing
(23:26):
distress.
Right?
It's hard for parentsto tolerate their kid not doing well.
It's hard.
And so often timesparents provide immediate reassurance
to the child and says things like, "oh no,you shouldn't be worried about that." "Oh
no, no need to be sad.
(23:46):
It's not a big deal." We do thatall the time, but when we do it,
we're really doing it to mitigateour own anxiety, our own discomfort.
But when we do that,we're actually closing the door
on an opportunity for connection,for an opportunity for the child
to actually communicate what's goingon, to be vulnerable with their parent,
(24:09):
and to share what are some of the thingsthat perhaps they've already explore
to help manage the current stressorsthat they're experiencing.
But as parents, we're problem solvers, sowe always kind of lead the conversation.
But I think one tip for folksto think about in their own homes
(24:30):
with their kids is to let the teenor your kid lead the conversation.
Right?
And so the way that you can createthat space is to be curious
about your kids' experience.
And so if you always appear curiousabout what's happening in your kid's life,
about how it isthey're thinking and they're feeling,
(24:50):
then they might feel a little bitmore inclined to share more,
because there doesn'tseem to be a lot of judgment.
And that's kind of in the air. Right?
And so if a teen or a kidis actually opening up to you as an adult,
you got to just sit on your handsand listen.
Keep your mouth shut, right?
(25:10):
Listen, listen, listen.
And toask them, okay, what is it
that I can do to support you?
What could--in your mindhow could I be most helpful for you
in this moment of time? Right?
Because a lot of parentsthink that they're providing support,
that they're helpful,and they'll say things like,
"oh, well, I offered to take them tothe movies." "Oh, I offered to do this."
(25:34):
Yeah, but that's not the form of supportthat they needed in that moment of time.
That's what you wanted to do.
But that wasn't helpful to the kid.
They didn't want that.
And so you need to allow your kidto tell you how you can be helpful.
So that's really important.
Now the question about, like, peer-to-peerconversations among young people,
that's a really interesting onebecause it's all about safety, right?
(25:59):
It's about who do you feelsafe sharing all this information with?
Because information can spreadlike wildfire, at a high school
or in a middle school. Right?
And so that lack of trustor safety is oftentimes
a major barrier to kidswanting to open up to another kid.
And that's why--and again,we're not bashing on social media at all,
(26:22):
because I think it's a very powerful toolwhen leveraged well.
But I do think that's why peersare having these conversations online,
because it is safer in the sensethat you're having these conversations
with a selected group of individualswho are like in the same, you know, chat
room or following the same influencer.
(26:44):
You know what I mean?
So, you know that these are your people,but out in the wild
in your school, you don't know,like how people are really feeling.
And so I think people are, feeling likeonline in conversations is safer.
But try it out, testit out, share little pieces of information
with your friendand see what it looks like over time.
(27:08):
If you share one thing, does Sarah,you know, from,
you know, period two gym class, doesshe found out?
And if you notice that thingsseem to be kept within that person
then maybe over time,you could start to reveal more
because you knowthat person is a trusted individual?
Taanvi, just, off the cuff here,do you agree with Dr.
(27:30):
Crawford?
Like in your experience, in yourcurrent life and in your lived experience,
do you agree?
You know, have you found what Dr.
Crawford is interesting to sort of workand apply in everyday life?
Yeah, I would definitely say like a lotof the things that you were saying, Dr.
Crawford, really resonated withlike what I see in my own classrooms,
with my own peers.
And I like the idea of, like trying to saythings little by little to your peers.
(27:54):
And I feel like one of the biggest thingsthat I'm experiencing right now,
like in my own classroom with my ownteachers, is like a lot of teachers
with our school budget cuts,there's like 50 students in a classroom.
So the teachers also don't get enough timeto talk with the students
and check in one-on-one to see, like,how their mental health is doing.
So of coursethey're going to talk to their peers.
But then I don't think like peersreally know like,
(28:16):
how are you supposed to help your friend?
What are you supposed to dowhen your friend says something?
And I like what you said about like,we say thing
is just to mitigate our own anxietiesand our own fears.
And I noticed, like I do that all the timein school in certain situations.
Because it's also like,if my friend tells me
during passing period for five minutesthat she failed a test.
(28:37):
Like the only thing in that momentI can say is, "oh, I'm sorry." "Oh,
that's so annoying." But since I only havelike one minute with her, then
I can't really talk moreand have a better conversation,
which is where I guesssocial media comes in.
Maybe after schoolI can check in with them.
I can debrief and ask, "hey,is everything okay?
I didn't get to talk to you too much,"so I think that's a really helpful point.
(28:59):
And then, what you said earlierabout parents and talking to our parents,
I noticed, I think last year I was having,like, a conversation with my dad,
and I was very stressedabout, like, the whole workload
of what I was doing in school.
So I tell him.
But then I remember before telling him,I should tell him that
I just want him to listen, becausea lot of times he jumps up with solutions
(29:21):
and they're helpful.
But like,after like eight hours of school,
I just want to tell somebodyand just have it out of my head.
I don't want like a solution.
Oh, I should time manage better,I should have a schedule
or anything like that.
So whenever I tell him, "just listen.
That's all I want from you right now,"he does a really good job of
just listening because he knowsthe response is just like, "okay, heard,
(29:41):
and let me knowif there's anything I can do."
And I think just telling--likeif any youth is listening,
telling a parent beforehandor guardian or teacher
that you just want them to listen,it can help them feel better
because they're like,oh, that's the only thing I need to do.
I can definitely listen, but it can alsohelp you feel better and like more
ready for their response.
So just like gratitude for sharing.
(30:02):
And then also,I wanted to add on to what Dr.
Tandon said earlier.
I've never really thought aboutlike as being a mental health
advocate and doing the work aroundhow can I help my peers
when they're going through anxietyor depression or stress?
I've always thought about like,meditation, mindfulness,
or coping strategieslike breathing techniques,
but never really about like play,the physical activity
(30:25):
that you do the exerciseor things that you do,
like maybe building things with your handsor going to parks.
And I just like connected that we goto school for like 7 or 8 hours a day.
We come back,we have five hours of homework,
and then the only thing we need torelax is scroll or watch TV,
which is another like screen time.
So all that screen time is like 15 hoursa day for students at the minimum.
(30:46):
So I really understandand I want to try to do outdoor play more
just to like enjoy swinging in a parkor doing things
that are not sittingin front of a computer the whole time.
So I really appreciate that,like a new way, a new solution.
I'll just going back to the old timesand what people did when they were free
when they were younger.
So I really like whatboth you said and really connect,
especially from a youth perspective.
(31:07):
That's amazing.
That was such a nice summary, Taanvi.
Thank you. Yeah.
So I think before we conclude,I'd like to ask
you three the question that we askevery podcast guest, which is that
the world can really be a difficult placesometimes
and it can be hard to hold on to hope.
So that's why each episode,we dedicate the last couple of minutes
(31:30):
of our podcast to a special segment calledHold on to Hope. So.
If you're comfortable,can each of you tell us what helps
you hold on to hope?
I can go first.
I feel like for me, likejust an example
this year, like coming into junior year,it's extremely hard with all the workload
(31:50):
and doing everything,catching up on school.
And I feel like there's a lot of timeswhere I'm thinking, like,
what is bringing me hope or what'smaking me excited for the future?
And I think the biggest thingis like probably being with family,
like spending time with familyin the evening or over the weekends.
Maybe I can spend a little bit more timewith them and excited for that.
And recently my sister went to college.
(32:11):
So that's like another thingto be excited for.
I was like,when am I going to meet her next?
So I think just looking forward to breaksand like right now, Thanksgiving break
and then winter break.
And as a student,I feel like that's the biggest thing.
But then it's alsoway too far in the future.
So I try to do thingslike watching a movie today, or
being able to go for a walk,or trying to enjoy things that aren't
(32:35):
way, way in the future, butalso more temporary in the moment things.
So definitely still like trying every dayto look for a new reason to have hope
and to be excited about the day.
But I wonder what you guys thinkas well to that.
Well, one thing that gives me hope,especially as a psychiatrist,
is that mental health advocates aren'tjust folks who are in the mental health
(32:56):
field, but it's everyone.
It's young people, it's pediatricians.
It should be eye doctors.
It could be construction workers.
It has to be everyone,especially when it comes to youth
mental health,because we all have a connection
with a young person in our lives,like we do.
Everyone does.
(33:17):
And so we really want to make surethat our young people
have the toolsand the resources that they need.
And so we have to advocatefor those things.
There are only about 10,000child psychiatrists in the country.
So me and my friends, we can't dothis whole thing alone, you know?
And so I'm really, excitedand it always gives me a sense of hope
(33:39):
having these conversations with peoplewho aren't in the mental health field,
especially young people.
So that definitely gives me hope. Yeah.
What gives me hope iswhen I see young people like you , Taanvi,
who think of themselvesas part of the solution.
I mean, as a society, I feel like we'refacing so many challenges right now. And,
(34:01):
and so, you know,when young people organize to,
you know, advocate for mental healthservices, for climate action,
for creating more inclusive spacesin their schools and their communities,
that gives me a lot of hope,because to me, it shows,
how resilient they are,you all are, and leadership skills
(34:25):
that we know are going to be necessaryfor a brighter and healthier future.
Amazing.
Yeah.
I think thatyou three are giving me a lot of hope.
I think that conversationhas been so inspiring.
I also took a walking meditation.
So, outside yesterday, breathingsome fresh air.
And one of the lines was, you know,it was a guided meditation.
(34:47):
One of the lines was that "thesun is always there, even when it's
cloudy or dark." It's always there.
And so I've been thinking about thata lot as something that's like
a sort of guiding principle.
Ant ties nicely with being outside. So,hopefully everybody can kind of take
that little, that little nugget away, too.
(35:07):
This has been Hope Startswith Us, a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
For more information about youth mentalhealth, please visit NAMI.org/youth.
You'll find resources for teens,young adults, and parents of young kids,
as well as for educatorsand anyone else working with young people.
If you're looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
(35:27):
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit NAMI.org/help.
Text "helpline" to 62640or dial 800-950-NAMI (6264).
If you are experiencingan immediate suicide, substance use,
(35:47):
or mental health crisis,please call or text 988 to speak
with a trained supportspecialist or visit 988lifeline.org.
It has been a pleasureto be your guest today.
Thanks for listening and be well.
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