November 19, 2025 • 31 mins
Learning to navigate depression and other mental health conditions takes a village of support and care. In this episode, Carnie Wilson, founding member of Wilson Philips, joins NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. to discuss her mental health journey. Growing up, Carnie experienced depression and anxiety and sought to numb her pain. Today, she is an advocate for mental health and reducing the stigma surrounding effects of tardive dyskinesia (TD). Listeners will hear from Carnie about how she advocates for mental health, her experiences with mental health, and more.
You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.
"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.
Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Why did I feel the shame?
(00:01):
And I thought to myself,I can't do this anymore because the bottom
line is somebody else outthere is feeling the way I'm feeling.
And if I open up and share thisand not be in the darkness about it,
that I know that there is solution.
It takes people around you.
Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcastby NAMI,
(00:23):
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
My name is Dan Gillisonand I'm the CEO for NAMI.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
All of us.
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
(00:46):
Hope starts with us sharing our storiesand hope starts
with us breaking the stigma.
If you or a loved one isstruggling with a mental health condition
and have been looking for hope.
We made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episode,with each conversation brings
(01:08):
you into that collectiveso you know you are not alone.
So let me introduce our guest.
And I am so, so excitedto talk to this person today.
Carnie Wilson, born into the music world,has made her own mark
on the entertainment worldas a singer, TV personality, and actress.
(01:34):
She is a founding member of the pop trioWilson Phillips.
Beyond her music career,Carnie has appeared on television
as a host and guest star,and even made a memorable
cameo in the comedy film Bridesmaids.
Her diverse talentscontinue to inspire and entertain
audiences worldwide.
(01:54):
She loves cooking and bakingwith her family
and resides in California with her family.
Carnie Wilson has always been an advocatefor helping and empowering others.
In the past,she's openly shared her experiences
with postpartum depression and addictionand found strength
by being open about her mental healthchallenges,
(02:14):
as well as seeking treatment and support.
Now, it means so much to herto be able to use her voice
to be open about her own mentalhealth journey, with the hope
that she can help peoplefacing their own challenges.
Hope starts with us. All of us.
Carnie,thank you for joining this podcast.
(02:35):
Would you start by telling us a little bitmore about yourself,
such as your personal interestsor activities that you enjoy?
First of all, thank youfor that beautiful introduction. Wow.
And I'm really,really glad to be here with you, Dan.
I am a big supporter of everythingthat you just said, and it's like
I was thinking those exact words,and I just want to say that
(02:58):
just before I get to my thing,"hope" is one of my favorite words ever.
And I think that,especially now, these days,
we need more hope.
And there is hope.
So I never, ever,if we can start it and end this with hope,
I think that's the most important thing.
(03:20):
It's funny, growing up in a famous family,I think that you automatically
are perceived a certain way to the publicand you just never know
what people who they are,how they are, their family, all that,
all those dynamicsuntil you go to their home
or you are a part of their lives.
(03:40):
So it's not always what it appears to be.
And maybe that is with everyone actually,because I like
to look at everyoneon an even playing field.
We are all humans.
We really are all the same.
So I look for the similarities,not the differences.
So by me being very public about my storyall these years, I think that it has,
(04:02):
I don't know what the wordis, humanized me or made
people feel like they can relate to meas just a human being.
So, yeah, I mean, my childhoodwas different in many respects.
I did grow up in a household with a fatherwho struggled with mental illness.
(04:23):
And on my mother's side,my grandmother May,
she had depression and anxietyfrom way back when I can remember.
She was living with,you know, some kind of depression
for as long as I can remember.
And she sort of,like, would go into a room for a few days
and have what my mom was saying,she's having a mental breakdown.
(04:45):
And this is the,you know, the 50s generation, you know,
and that sort of era, 50s and 60swhere we've come so far,
we know our resources are so much betternow, right Dan?
And back then we just thoughtgrandma was really sensitive.
My daddy was, you know,this Beach Boy, creating all this music,
(05:06):
bringing so much love into the worldand inside, I think he was just really,
you know, going through itand realizing that whether it was,
you know, psychotic episodes, or voicesor drugs, that addiction,
whatever it was that was fueling,his mental illness.
(05:27):
There was treatmentin many ways, but he never really got it.
He never got that real full treatmentand diagnosis until years and years later
in his 50s, where he was diagnosedwith schizoaffective disorder.
And he just-- he has-- he blows my mind.
(05:47):
He continues to blow my mind.
He passed away in Juneand it's been so hard.
But I don't think I've ever even beenmore aware
of the impact that his music has had.
His story has had, the powerin his sort of survival skills.
He was the strongest personI've ever known and outlived and survived
(06:11):
everybody on his side of the family,which is just beautiful and mind blowing.
But he was also a very spiritual man.
And you know that song "God Only Knows,"I one time I asked him, I said,
"that's a love song, right?
What's that song about?"He said, no, no, that's a spiritual song.
I said, "what?"He says, "no, that's a that's about God.
That's about spirituality."So I've learned a lot from him
(06:33):
in my life about how, asI had been faced with the genetics,
being predisposedto depression, anxiety,
I've been predisposed to that.
And I know who I am, and I've taken mychallenges in my own hands.
And it's never been like a linear thing.
(06:57):
It's up, it's down.
It's sideways, it's right, it's left.
It's, you know.
But I've learned so much,especially in the last year with the work
that I've been doing for my campaign.
I know we'll get into that.
That was a very longanswer to your question, but
I actually didn'teven touch on my interests.
And, I mean, I'm 57 years old.
(07:18):
I have two daughters, Lola and Lucy.
This last year has been,it's been a whopper.
It truly, openly can say that.
It's been a whopper for my family,for all of us.
And the beautiful part about it, Dan,is that we have collectively
been so open about it to each other.
(07:39):
We have all seeked treatment.
My kids are in therapy.
That is that is fantastic.
As you've shared a bit about your family.
And Carnie, you know,if we go back to Wilson Phillips and
us being theconsumers of you and your family's music,
you know,we see you sitting in the audience
and you on the stage.
(08:04):
And so we're looking at the coverof your book, and what you've just done is
you've taken us into the table of contentsand the chapters,
and that's what we're talking aboutin terms of families, really,
and individuals really understandingwhat their makeup is in its entirety.
So, thank you for sharing that with us.
Would you share a little bitabout your mental health journey
(08:27):
and what inspires youto talk about your experience?
Because you don't have to do it.
Thank you for doing it.
First of all,thank you because you are helping so many.
But what inspired you to talk aboutyour experience and from that experience,
what would you like to shareas a part of your story?
I was born to connect with people.
(08:47):
That's the truth.
And the opposite of connectionto me is isolation, really.
And I know from my own experience,when I was in that very dark,
dark place of addiction and depressionand feeling so isolated and not--
and feeling the shame, I felt shame.
(09:10):
You know, there's pressure.
Everybody has pressure in their lives.
We all have pressure.
And it can varyand it can come from different places.
But the root of it all is thatI couldn't, I couldn't go any longer.
I wanted to live, I wanted to live.
And the more--and when Iwhen I sought my treatment, I got sober.
(09:31):
I started really delving into,what was happening inside of me, you know?
Why was I wanting to isolate?
Why did I feel the shame?
And I thought to myself,I can't do this anymore because the bottom
line is somebody else outthere is feeling the way I'm feeling.
And if I open up and share thisand not be in the darkness about it,
(09:54):
that I know that there is solution.
It takes people around you.
There is a--I reached a desperate, place.
I reached total, like, surrender.
I came to a surrender that I needed help.
And I think that people struggle with thatbecause they think
(10:16):
it's weak or shows vulnerability.
But I really believe that peoplewill actually find their strength
and their couragein admitting that they need their help
and that they're vulnerableand whatever is going on in their brain,
whether it's this physical thingwhere you know that the dopamine or the,
you know, all the neurons or the synapse,whatever that is, you know,
(10:37):
you can seek the treatment that you need.
And it all starts with the honestyinside of you and your heart
reaching out for help, knowingthat there are, you know, organizations
like you have that offer the resourcesthat there are people in the same boat,
but we can't get anywhere until we raiseyour hand and say, "I need help."
(11:01):
And I am not alone.
And there is a way to get better.
And also what I realize is that, you know,there's no graduation here.
There's a school. We're all in ittogether.
We're all students,but there is no graduation.
You know, it's babysteps and it's progress, not perfection.
And everybody's an individual.
(11:21):
So by me opening up and sharing,it made me feel such a relief.
And, you know, in terms of what I'vebeen doing the last year,
it really,really has opened my own eyes
to my own anxiety.
So it's not so much really depressionthat I felt the last year because,
(11:42):
because I've been involved with connectingwith Carnie Campaign, you know,
as a spokesperson for NeurocrineBiosciences, this has been--
it has been incredibleto raise this awareness
for mental health, being the advocate,but also TD, tardive dyskinesia,
which by the wayis, it's a visual condition.
(12:06):
It is uncontrollable movementsthat people that are already suffering
from mental illness,they take these medications
that help them make them more even.
It really has helped,but it's like a double whammy.
They get this conditionand it's a physical thing that people see.
One of the things that I'vebeen talking about with the ambassadors
who and the patients living with TDthat we've connected with
(12:32):
is that I once had, twiceactually, had Bell's palsy.
So it's freezing of the muscleson one side of the face.
It's a neurological condition,but I remember having to be
in public, not being able to move oneside of my face.
I even walked down a red carpetfor an ABC mini-series that I acted in,
and I was, you know, on the red carpet,smiling like this, waving my hand.
(12:56):
I couldn't move the side of my faceand I remember feeling so judged.
And I think that people,whether it's the mental illness
or tardive dyskinesia, they feel judged.
And that'swhat I'm trying to break through that
and let them know that, you know,we have compassion.
(13:16):
We have patience for people that need,they need that.
And it's here, and I am a partof being an advocate with them.
You know, it is so important to, again,share your story,
but to be an ambassadorand to let people know
why you're an ambassadorand that you're living with, and you are
(13:39):
achieving withand the journey is continuous,
but you're living with.
And tardive dyskinesia is one of thosesituations
that you're working on balancingone thing that creates the other thing.
And both of them can havesociety interacting with you
a certain way,because to a certain extent, we're judging
(14:03):
because of being that cosmetic society.
So we like to say at NAMI, "meet peoplewhere they are,
not where we want them to be," and makingsure people know they're not alone.
Those are two of our mantras.
So thank you for sharing your storyand what you're doing. And,
what would you say in regards to,you know, you did share a little bit,
(14:24):
but let me back up a second and say,first of all, condolences
on the loss of your dad.
And, thank you for sharing that.
And you also talked about his legacyand what you learned from him,
and you shared alittle bit about your family.
How have the experiences ofthe mental health challenges
in your family impacted you?
(14:47):
You know, in a way, I feel likeit gives me that comfort
knowing that I know where I come from,you know.
It is all about self-discovery.
But when you do discoverthese things about yourself,
you know,there are moments when you can feel like--
I remember when my mother,when I was very young,
(15:10):
very, very young,maybe 5 or 6, like just kindergarten.
And she said, you know,your father has a mental illness,
but his heart is goodand his music is helping people.
I remember, you know,she said he's not going to be
your average, normal father, but he lovesyou very much and we have to support him.
I was just a little, little kid,and there was a part of me that felt,
(15:34):
oh, my family's different.
Oh, there's something different about it.
I didn't go to the dinner tableevery night and have dinner
and sit around the table and talk about,you know, how was your day?
How was your day?
My father ate his steak in three secondsand was playing the piano already.
It was an artistic environment.
It was a fabulous and,you know, thriving environment musically.
(15:54):
There were lots of peoplecoming in and out of the house.
And so I also went to a private schoolthat had a lot of children that had
famous parents in the music industry.
So we had this sort of camaraderie.
We understood that we kind ofwere cut from the same cloth like that.
But I always felt like there was somethingdifferent about our family because of,
(16:15):
some of the, the, the mental illnessthat, you know, on both sides.
So I could have sat aroundand said, oh, I'm cursed or oh, you know,
this is just, this is too much.
I'm doomed.
You know,I can't say that there--there were times
when I felt that way,and that's when my addiction started.
(16:38):
So my addiction,the form of it was drinking, drugs,
not heavy drugs,but a lot of marijuana and drinking.
And drinkingbrought me down to the very, very bottom.
It fueled my depression.
But luckily,I found a 12-step program
(17:00):
that has kept me sober for 21 years.
I had--thank you.
I've had a therapistthat I've had since 19 years old.
So through the ups and downs of my life,the challenges,
you know, meeting a wonderful manwho has been by my side for 27 years.
(17:20):
I've been by his side.
He understands me, I understand him.
We're very different on the outside,my husband and I,
even though he's a musician, he'sreal quiet, reserved.
I'm real like, hey, what's up?
You know, and it and it's great.
And so there's that good dynamic.
And then thank God,my children have never seen me drunk.
My children have seen mego through difficult times
(17:41):
and come out the other side.
My example was my father.
My grandmother sadlynever got, really, diagnosed.
She never got the giftof the treatment that is now available.
But my father did,and he lived a long, healthy, happy life.
(18:02):
And we had so much healing,so much healing.
I sang with him.
I performed with him.
He walked me down the aisle.
He was there for the birth of my children.
He went through so much.
And I'm just so, I'mso honored to be his daughter.
And it just-- it's so beautifulthat I can continue singing his songs,
(18:24):
you know, carry on the tradition.
And it makes me so emotional becauseI think about, you know,
when I see the people in the audience,you know, and they come to these shows
and they sing these songs,the joy that it brings them.
You know, I believe music is healingand very powerful. And
(18:47):
I think that the bottom line is it bringseverybody together.
And, you know, we need community.
We need support.
And, you know, that's what,that's what your organization offers.
Hope and support, help.
That's why we are across the country.
And we're the largest grassrootsmental health organization led by
(19:10):
and in a lot of cases,individuals that have navigated
the painthat they turned into their purpose
and it's become their passion.
So, we're so appreciative of everyonein the NAMI family that does this work.
We like to say we're the DNAand in the communities across the US.
(19:31):
So thank you for sharing your story.
And I want to just go backto a few things.
You talked about your dad,and you're carrying his legacy forward.
And Ijust wanted to acknowledge that, Carnie,
just for a second, as a son.
As you are a daughter.
Just wanted to say that, and kudos to you.
(19:52):
And, yes, music is therapyand music is community.
Music is that collective.
And it's so importantand it provides so much joy.
You used the word joy.
So thank you for sharing thatbecause that's an operative word.
And you also said something about youthat makes you and I very similar.
And we've only met one other time.
But and you said "Iwas born to connect with people"
(20:13):
and the folks that know me will tell youthat they've heard me say this before.
I love the industry of people.
I don't do well in isolation. So,I love our connections in that way.
And, it is so true.
It is so truein terms of connecting with people.
And the other thing you mentionedis, is as you share your story and that
(20:38):
self-discovery is the vulnerability,and the vulnerability is strength.
It is not weakness. So thank you for that.
And it's so important that I repeat itfor the audience and for us to repeat it
for the audience to hear it.
Vulnerability is strength.
It is not weakness.
You are not alone.
So, and I'm just going oversome of the things you said
(21:02):
because it's so powerfuland is so important to the audience.
So thank you, Carnie. May I ask you this?
You currently are advocatingfor mental health and what is the work
that you're doing right now?
You alluded to it earlier,but I wanted to give you
the opportunity to share a little bit moreabout what you're doing in terms
(21:23):
of tardive dyskinesiaand the campaign that you're working
on. Yes.
I still think there's a stigmaaround mental health in general,
because that's where that starts from.
That's the umbrella.
You know what I mean?
The umbrella is mental health.
That's where it starts.
Mental illness, mental health,the awareness, the treatment, all of it.
And, you know, I was approachedby Neurocrine Biosciences and
(21:48):
they, you know,I while I don't have tardive dyskinesia,
I understand what it's like to sufferin that darkness
and the unknown of, wait a minute,you know, I know there's something wrong.
So I understand the mental health part,but I didn't even know what TD was.
And when I--and that's why this yearhas been a beautiful year
(22:10):
of education for me.
And the underlying, the theme is,you know,
erasing that stigma, having peoplereach out to their health care
professional and say something'snot right.
I'm living with mental illness,but I have uncontrollable movements.
(22:31):
My tongue won't stop darting in my face.
My torso keeps moving.
My limbs, my fingers.
You know, my head is jerking.
I have these uncontrolled movements, and,you know, there's
800,000 people in this countrythat have TD
and 60% are undiagnosed.
And I want to take that number down.
(22:52):
I want to encourage people to, you know,look in that mirror and say,
what am I noticing?
What am I seeing here?
Get that help and reach out.
And that there is treatment.
For me, it's-- the campaign is probablythe most people thing
I've ever been involved with, simplybecause I know we're making a difference.
(23:13):
I mean, I'm praying we are.
And of course, that's the goal,but it's raising that awareness.
But I get to talk with the patientsone on one.
I get to sit down and hear their stories.
And the most beautiful thing isthey are their own advocate now.
They weren't an advocate for so longbecause they had the shame.
They had the fear, they had the unknown.
(23:37):
And when they did reach out for helpand they did get treatment,
and they realized that they didfind their hope and their help,
that now they can share their storiesand make such an impact.
They've impacted mebecause they've inspired me.
I know they're inspiring other people.
And for example, the ambassadors.
(23:59):
Moira, was a pastorand she was accused
of chewing gum, of the movements in her--when she would do her services,
she could not stop moving.
She was accused of chewing gumand she was doing her job wrong.
And that was really hard for her.
Coach "D" Devetria, an amazing womanwith an amazing story.
(24:22):
Suffered abuse and drug addictionand just a list.
It was just mind blowing.
I was very emotional hearing her story,and she said she found out
that she had one of the worst cases of TDthat they had ever seen to see her
come out the other side,still battling with symptoms,
but so much better now.
Seeing her being an inspirationand not giving up was mind blowing.
(24:48):
So--and then to Allison,who was a DJ in
the public eye, couldn't sleep in bedwith her husband, kicking him
violently at night, twisting her torsoso violently and suffers
from bipolar depression,has come out the other side.
Their lives have changed.
And that's the goal here,is to raise this awareness, change lives.
(25:12):
But, you know,I've been my own advocate, too.
I can't sit back and be complacent.
You know, I can't sit back.
I can't rest on my laurels.
I got to get out there and have that willto make a change for me and help
others make a change for themselves.
And that's what I've been doingwith this campaign.
It's been incredible.
(25:33):
Wow, these are powerful stories.
And thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
And to each of them.
And those that I just did not, repeat,thank you for lending your voice
to this work in your story.
And we know that, you know,as you mentioned, 60% are undiagnosed.
So if we can remove--ifwe can reduce that number,
(25:56):
10 to 20 percentage points. Wow.
I mean, and then and then actually get itto the point where it's 10% or less.
Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Wouldn't that just be wonderful?
We will, Dan. We will. Yes.
So, this is incredible.
And you know,we also, say that, people don't care
how much you know,until they know how much you care.
(26:18):
And we know that the care that you'reproviding takes a lot of energy
and it takes a lot of time.
And thank you for doing that, Carnie,and lending your voice to this
and to Neurocrine for their work here,because they-- it's a choice.
And this also helps with carebecause we care.
So, thank you to youand this work that you're doing.
(26:42):
So as we, as we talk about hope,we always wrap up our conversations
The world can be a difficult place,and sometimes it's hard
to hold on to hope.
That's why with each episode,we dedicate the last couple of minutes
(27:03):
of the podcast to a special segmentcalled Hold On to Hope.
And it's really onereally important question.
What helps you hold on to hope, Carnie?
Well, first of all, I can't,Ican't miss pointing out the obvious that,
you know, one of our--ourbiggest hit was called "Hold On."
So that's--I don't think that's a mistake here, Dan.
(27:28):
It is so important to hold onfor one more day.
It's important to hold on.
Although, I want to say we don't have tohold on anymore to get help.
So I will say that.
But we have to hold on to our--myfaith is big.
I'm a very spiritual person.
I remain teachable, I remain hopeful,I acknowledge that it's baby steps.
(27:54):
It can be one step forward, two stepsback, three steps forward, one step back.
Life is in sessionand there is no such thing as perfection.
We grow, we learn.
We reach our hand down.
And we do hold on to hope.
Because if we don't have hope,we have nothing.
Hope is faith.
(28:14):
Faith is hope.
And you know, is it-- It's not a religion.
It's not religion.
It's a force.
It's a power-- hope is a force.
And I know that everybody is capableof tapping into it.
Sometimes you just got to dipyour little pinky toe in there
(28:36):
and just feel what it feels like.
When you suffer,when you live with any kind of addiction,
mental illness,and you have that first sliver of hope,
oh boy, that's what paves the way.
And knowing that you can crack that dooropen and have that little light come in
(28:58):
and know that it's possibleto feel that hope.
That's what I'm encouraging people to do.
And I know that it's possiblebecause I've done it myself.
You have done it, and you've done itvery successfully.
And you just said somethingthat--you said so much.
But one thing, I mean, it was incredible,but I kept it.
To the audience.
Audience, "life is in session."Life is in session and then, yes, hold on.
(29:28):
If youif you can go back to your music folks,
go back and listen to "Hold On."Hang in there.
This is powerful.
And is there anythingyou'd like to leave our audience
with as I get ready to close the session,Carnie?
Yeah, I just want to say thatI'm proud of everyone.
I'm proud of anyone who's listeningright now that has that first thought.
(29:51):
Maybe they're thinkingat the beginning of this podcast.
They thought, you know, I'm going to I'mgoing to listen and see what I hear.
And I still feel that scared.
And what I hope,I hope for you, listeners, is that,
maybe I helped you open--crackthat door open a little bit
and that you'll finally,finally make that phone call,
have that conversation with yourself,with your spouse, with your kids,
(30:13):
with your health careprovider, with someone,
and that you have opened your heartto the possibility of healing.
So that's what I just want to say.
And I'm honored to be here.
I'm honored to be vulnerable.
I'm honored to be strong.
I'm honored for my lifethat I've experienced
(30:33):
because every little experiencehas made me who I am today.
The happy times, the sad times, the joy.
I allow myself to feel joy.
I want people to allow themselvesto feel joy because we deserve it.
That's it, that's it.
And life is in session.
And folks, you've been listening to CarnieWilson from Wilson Phillips and again,
(30:56):
Carnie does not have to lend her timeand talent to this.
She's doing it because she caresand it is all about hope.
So this has been Hope StartsWith Us, a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
If you are looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit nami.org/help.
(31:21):
Text "NAMI" to 62640or dial 800-950-NAMI.
Or if you are experiencingan immediate suicide, substance use,
or mental health crisis, pleasecall or text 988 to speak with the trained
supportspecialist or visit 988lifeline.org.
(31:42):
I'm Dan Gillison, your host.
Thanks for listening and be well.
Why did I feel the shame?
(00:01):
And I thought to myself,I can't do this anymore because the bottom
line is somebody else outthere is feeling the way I'm feeling.
And if I open up and share thisand not be in the darkness about it,
that I know that there is solution.
It takes people around you.
Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcastby NAMI,
(00:23):
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
My name is Dan Gillisonand I'm the CEO for NAMI.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
All of us.
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
(00:46):
Hope starts with us sharing our storiesand hope starts
with us breaking the stigma.
If you or a loved one isstruggling with a mental health condition
and have been looking for hope.
We made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episode,with each conversation brings
(01:08):
you into that collectiveso you know you are not alone.
So let me introduce our guest.
And I am so, so excitedto talk to this person today.
Carnie Wilson, born into the music world,has made her own mark
on the entertainment worldas a singer, TV personality, and actress.
(01:34):
She is a founding member of the pop trioWilson Phillips.
Beyond her music career,Carnie has appeared on television
as a host and guest star,and even made a memorable
cameo in the comedy film Bridesmaids.
Her diverse talentscontinue to inspire and entertain
audiences worldwide.
(01:54):
She loves cooking and bakingwith her family
and resides in California with her family.
Carnie Wilson has always been an advocatefor helping and empowering others.
In the past,she's openly shared her experiences
with postpartum depression and addictionand found strength
by being open about her mental healthchallenges,
(02:14):
as well as seeking treatment and support.
Now, it means so much to herto be able to use her voice
to be open about her own mentalhealth journey, with the hope
that she can help peoplefacing their own challenges.
Hope starts with us. All of us.
Carnie,thank you for joining this podcast.
(02:35):
Would you start by telling us a little bitmore about yourself,
such as your personal interestsor activities that you enjoy?
First of all, thank youfor that beautiful introduction. Wow.
And I'm really,really glad to be here with you, Dan.
I am a big supporter of everythingthat you just said, and it's like
I was thinking those exact words,and I just want to say that
(02:58):
just before I get to my thing,"hope" is one of my favorite words ever.
And I think that,especially now, these days,
we need more hope.
And there is hope.
So I never, ever,if we can start it and end this with hope,
I think that's the most important thing.
(03:20):
It's funny, growing up in a famous family,I think that you automatically
are perceived a certain way to the publicand you just never know
what people who they are,how they are, their family, all that,
all those dynamicsuntil you go to their home
or you are a part of their lives.
(03:40):
So it's not always what it appears to be.
And maybe that is with everyone actually,because I like
to look at everyoneon an even playing field.
We are all humans.
We really are all the same.
So I look for the similarities,not the differences.
So by me being very public about my storyall these years, I think that it has,
(04:02):
I don't know what the wordis, humanized me or made
people feel like they can relate to meas just a human being.
So, yeah, I mean, my childhoodwas different in many respects.
I did grow up in a household with a fatherwho struggled with mental illness.
(04:23):
And on my mother's side,my grandmother May,
she had depression and anxietyfrom way back when I can remember.
She was living with,you know, some kind of depression
for as long as I can remember.
And she sort of,like, would go into a room for a few days
and have what my mom was saying,she's having a mental breakdown.
(04:45):
And this is the,you know, the 50s generation, you know,
and that sort of era, 50s and 60swhere we've come so far,
we know our resources are so much betternow, right Dan?
And back then we just thoughtgrandma was really sensitive.
My daddy was, you know,this Beach Boy, creating all this music,
(05:06):
bringing so much love into the worldand inside, I think he was just really,
you know, going through itand realizing that whether it was,
you know, psychotic episodes, or voicesor drugs, that addiction,
whatever it was that was fueling,his mental illness.
(05:27):
There was treatmentin many ways, but he never really got it.
He never got that real full treatmentand diagnosis until years and years later
in his 50s, where he was diagnosedwith schizoaffective disorder.
And he just-- he has-- he blows my mind.
(05:47):
He continues to blow my mind.
He passed away in Juneand it's been so hard.
But I don't think I've ever even beenmore aware
of the impact that his music has had.
His story has had, the powerin his sort of survival skills.
He was the strongest personI've ever known and outlived and survived
(06:11):
everybody on his side of the family,which is just beautiful and mind blowing.
But he was also a very spiritual man.
And you know that song "God Only Knows,"I one time I asked him, I said,
"that's a love song, right?
What's that song about?"He said, no, no, that's a spiritual song.
I said, "what?"He says, "no, that's a that's about God.
That's about spirituality."So I've learned a lot from him
(06:33):
in my life about how, asI had been faced with the genetics,
being predisposedto depression, anxiety,
I've been predisposed to that.
And I know who I am, and I've taken mychallenges in my own hands.
And it's never been like a linear thing.
(06:57):
It's up, it's down.
It's sideways, it's right, it's left.
It's, you know.
But I've learned so much,especially in the last year with the work
that I've been doing for my campaign.
I know we'll get into that.
That was a very longanswer to your question, but
I actually didn'teven touch on my interests.
And, I mean, I'm 57 years old.
(07:18):
I have two daughters, Lola and Lucy.
This last year has been,it's been a whopper.
It truly, openly can say that.
It's been a whopper for my family,for all of us.
And the beautiful part about it, Dan,is that we have collectively
been so open about it to each other.
(07:39):
We have all seeked treatment.
My kids are in therapy.
That is that is fantastic.
As you've shared a bit about your family.
And Carnie, you know,if we go back to Wilson Phillips and
us being theconsumers of you and your family's music,
you know,we see you sitting in the audience
and you on the stage.
(08:04):
And so we're looking at the coverof your book, and what you've just done is
you've taken us into the table of contentsand the chapters,
and that's what we're talking aboutin terms of families, really,
and individuals really understandingwhat their makeup is in its entirety.
So, thank you for sharing that with us.
Would you share a little bitabout your mental health journey
(08:27):
and what inspires youto talk about your experience?
Because you don't have to do it.
Thank you for doing it.
First of all,thank you because you are helping so many.
But what inspired you to talk aboutyour experience and from that experience,
what would you like to shareas a part of your story?
I was born to connect with people.
(08:47):
That's the truth.
And the opposite of connectionto me is isolation, really.
And I know from my own experience,when I was in that very dark,
dark place of addiction and depressionand feeling so isolated and not--
and feeling the shame, I felt shame.
(09:10):
You know, there's pressure.
Everybody has pressure in their lives.
We all have pressure.
And it can varyand it can come from different places.
But the root of it all is thatI couldn't, I couldn't go any longer.
I wanted to live, I wanted to live.
And the more--and when Iwhen I sought my treatment, I got sober.
(09:31):
I started really delving into,what was happening inside of me, you know?
Why was I wanting to isolate?
Why did I feel the shame?
And I thought to myself,I can't do this anymore because the bottom
line is somebody else outthere is feeling the way I'm feeling.
And if I open up and share thisand not be in the darkness about it,
(09:54):
that I know that there is solution.
It takes people around you.
There is a--I reached a desperate, place.
I reached total, like, surrender.
I came to a surrender that I needed help.
And I think that people struggle with thatbecause they think
(10:16):
it's weak or shows vulnerability.
But I really believe that peoplewill actually find their strength
and their couragein admitting that they need their help
and that they're vulnerableand whatever is going on in their brain,
whether it's this physical thingwhere you know that the dopamine or the,
you know, all the neurons or the synapse,whatever that is, you know,
(10:37):
you can seek the treatment that you need.
And it all starts with the honestyinside of you and your heart
reaching out for help, knowingthat there are, you know, organizations
like you have that offer the resourcesthat there are people in the same boat,
but we can't get anywhere until we raiseyour hand and say, "I need help."
(11:01):
And I am not alone.
And there is a way to get better.
And also what I realize is that, you know,there's no graduation here.
There's a school. We're all in ittogether.
We're all students,but there is no graduation.
You know, it's babysteps and it's progress, not perfection.
And everybody's an individual.
(11:21):
So by me opening up and sharing,it made me feel such a relief.
And, you know, in terms of what I'vebeen doing the last year,
it really,really has opened my own eyes
to my own anxiety.
So it's not so much really depressionthat I felt the last year because,
(11:42):
because I've been involved with connectingwith Carnie Campaign, you know,
as a spokesperson for NeurocrineBiosciences, this has been--
it has been incredibleto raise this awareness
for mental health, being the advocate,but also TD, tardive dyskinesia,
which by the wayis, it's a visual condition.
(12:06):
It is uncontrollable movementsthat people that are already suffering
from mental illness,they take these medications
that help them make them more even.
It really has helped,but it's like a double whammy.
They get this conditionand it's a physical thing that people see.
One of the things that I'vebeen talking about with the ambassadors
who and the patients living with TDthat we've connected with
(12:32):
is that I once had, twiceactually, had Bell's palsy.
So it's freezing of the muscleson one side of the face.
It's a neurological condition,but I remember having to be
in public, not being able to move oneside of my face.
I even walked down a red carpetfor an ABC mini-series that I acted in,
and I was, you know, on the red carpet,smiling like this, waving my hand.
(12:56):
I couldn't move the side of my faceand I remember feeling so judged.
And I think that people,whether it's the mental illness
or tardive dyskinesia, they feel judged.
And that'swhat I'm trying to break through that
and let them know that, you know,we have compassion.
(13:16):
We have patience for people that need,they need that.
And it's here, and I am a partof being an advocate with them.
You know, it is so important to, again,share your story,
but to be an ambassadorand to let people know
why you're an ambassadorand that you're living with, and you are
(13:39):
achieving withand the journey is continuous,
but you're living with.
And tardive dyskinesia is one of thosesituations
that you're working on balancingone thing that creates the other thing.
And both of them can havesociety interacting with you
a certain way,because to a certain extent, we're judging
(14:03):
because of being that cosmetic society.
So we like to say at NAMI, "meet peoplewhere they are,
not where we want them to be," and makingsure people know they're not alone.
Those are two of our mantras.
So thank you for sharing your storyand what you're doing. And,
what would you say in regards to,you know, you did share a little bit,
(14:24):
but let me back up a second and say,first of all, condolences
on the loss of your dad.
And, thank you for sharing that.
And you also talked about his legacyand what you learned from him,
and you shared alittle bit about your family.
How have the experiences ofthe mental health challenges
in your family impacted you?
(14:47):
You know, in a way, I feel likeit gives me that comfort
knowing that I know where I come from,you know.
It is all about self-discovery.
But when you do discoverthese things about yourself,
you know,there are moments when you can feel like--
I remember when my mother,when I was very young,
(15:10):
very, very young,maybe 5 or 6, like just kindergarten.
And she said, you know,your father has a mental illness,
but his heart is goodand his music is helping people.
I remember, you know,she said he's not going to be
your average, normal father, but he lovesyou very much and we have to support him.
I was just a little, little kid,and there was a part of me that felt,
(15:34):
oh, my family's different.
Oh, there's something different about it.
I didn't go to the dinner tableevery night and have dinner
and sit around the table and talk about,you know, how was your day?
How was your day?
My father ate his steak in three secondsand was playing the piano already.
It was an artistic environment.
It was a fabulous and,you know, thriving environment musically.
(15:54):
There were lots of peoplecoming in and out of the house.
And so I also went to a private schoolthat had a lot of children that had
famous parents in the music industry.
So we had this sort of camaraderie.
We understood that we kind ofwere cut from the same cloth like that.
But I always felt like there was somethingdifferent about our family because of,
(16:15):
some of the, the, the mental illnessthat, you know, on both sides.
So I could have sat aroundand said, oh, I'm cursed or oh, you know,
this is just, this is too much.
I'm doomed.
You know,I can't say that there--there were times
when I felt that way,and that's when my addiction started.
(16:38):
So my addiction,the form of it was drinking, drugs,
not heavy drugs,but a lot of marijuana and drinking.
And drinkingbrought me down to the very, very bottom.
It fueled my depression.
But luckily,I found a 12-step program
(17:00):
that has kept me sober for 21 years.
I had--thank you.
I've had a therapistthat I've had since 19 years old.
So through the ups and downs of my life,the challenges,
you know, meeting a wonderful manwho has been by my side for 27 years.
(17:20):
I've been by his side.
He understands me, I understand him.
We're very different on the outside,my husband and I,
even though he's a musician, he'sreal quiet, reserved.
I'm real like, hey, what's up?
You know, and it and it's great.
And so there's that good dynamic.
And then thank God,my children have never seen me drunk.
My children have seen mego through difficult times
(17:41):
and come out the other side.
My example was my father.
My grandmother sadlynever got, really, diagnosed.
She never got the giftof the treatment that is now available.
But my father did,and he lived a long, healthy, happy life.
(18:02):
And we had so much healing,so much healing.
I sang with him.
I performed with him.
He walked me down the aisle.
He was there for the birth of my children.
He went through so much.
And I'm just so, I'mso honored to be his daughter.
And it just-- it's so beautifulthat I can continue singing his songs,
(18:24):
you know, carry on the tradition.
And it makes me so emotional becauseI think about, you know,
when I see the people in the audience,you know, and they come to these shows
and they sing these songs,the joy that it brings them.
You know, I believe music is healingand very powerful. And
(18:47):
I think that the bottom line is it bringseverybody together.
And, you know, we need community.
We need support.
And, you know, that's what,that's what your organization offers.
Hope and support, help.
That's why we are across the country.
And we're the largest grassrootsmental health organization led by
(19:10):
and in a lot of cases,individuals that have navigated
the painthat they turned into their purpose
and it's become their passion.
So, we're so appreciative of everyonein the NAMI family that does this work.
We like to say we're the DNAand in the communities across the US.
(19:31):
So thank you for sharing your story.
And I want to just go backto a few things.
You talked about your dad,and you're carrying his legacy forward.
And Ijust wanted to acknowledge that, Carnie,
just for a second, as a son.
As you are a daughter.
Just wanted to say that, and kudos to you.
(19:52):
And, yes, music is therapyand music is community.
Music is that collective.
And it's so importantand it provides so much joy.
You used the word joy.
So thank you for sharing thatbecause that's an operative word.
And you also said something about youthat makes you and I very similar.
And we've only met one other time.
But and you said "Iwas born to connect with people"
(20:13):
and the folks that know me will tell youthat they've heard me say this before.
I love the industry of people.
I don't do well in isolation. So,I love our connections in that way.
And, it is so true.
It is so truein terms of connecting with people.
And the other thing you mentionedis, is as you share your story and that
(20:38):
self-discovery is the vulnerability,and the vulnerability is strength.
It is not weakness. So thank you for that.
And it's so important that I repeat itfor the audience and for us to repeat it
for the audience to hear it.
Vulnerability is strength.
It is not weakness.
You are not alone.
So, and I'm just going oversome of the things you said
(21:02):
because it's so powerfuland is so important to the audience.
So thank you, Carnie. May I ask you this?
You currently are advocatingfor mental health and what is the work
that you're doing right now?
You alluded to it earlier,but I wanted to give you
the opportunity to share a little bit moreabout what you're doing in terms
(21:23):
of tardive dyskinesiaand the campaign that you're working
on. Yes.
I still think there's a stigmaaround mental health in general,
because that's where that starts from.
That's the umbrella.
You know what I mean?
The umbrella is mental health.
That's where it starts.
Mental illness, mental health,the awareness, the treatment, all of it.
And, you know, I was approachedby Neurocrine Biosciences and
(21:48):
they, you know,I while I don't have tardive dyskinesia,
I understand what it's like to sufferin that darkness
and the unknown of, wait a minute,you know, I know there's something wrong.
So I understand the mental health part,but I didn't even know what TD was.
And when I--and that's why this yearhas been a beautiful year
(22:10):
of education for me.
And the underlying, the theme is,you know,
erasing that stigma, having peoplereach out to their health care
professional and say something'snot right.
I'm living with mental illness,but I have uncontrollable movements.
(22:31):
My tongue won't stop darting in my face.
My torso keeps moving.
My limbs, my fingers.
You know, my head is jerking.
I have these uncontrolled movements, and,you know, there's
800,000 people in this countrythat have TD
and 60% are undiagnosed.
And I want to take that number down.
(22:52):
I want to encourage people to, you know,look in that mirror and say,
what am I noticing?
What am I seeing here?
Get that help and reach out.
And that there is treatment.
For me, it's-- the campaign is probablythe most people thing
I've ever been involved with, simplybecause I know we're making a difference.
(23:13):
I mean, I'm praying we are.
And of course, that's the goal,but it's raising that awareness.
But I get to talk with the patientsone on one.
I get to sit down and hear their stories.
And the most beautiful thing isthey are their own advocate now.
They weren't an advocate for so longbecause they had the shame.
They had the fear, they had the unknown.
(23:37):
And when they did reach out for helpand they did get treatment,
and they realized that they didfind their hope and their help,
that now they can share their storiesand make such an impact.
They've impacted mebecause they've inspired me.
I know they're inspiring other people.
And for example, the ambassadors.
(23:59):
Moira, was a pastorand she was accused
of chewing gum, of the movements in her--when she would do her services,
she could not stop moving.
She was accused of chewing gumand she was doing her job wrong.
And that was really hard for her.
Coach "D" Devetria, an amazing womanwith an amazing story.
(24:22):
Suffered abuse and drug addictionand just a list.
It was just mind blowing.
I was very emotional hearing her story,and she said she found out
that she had one of the worst cases of TDthat they had ever seen to see her
come out the other side,still battling with symptoms,
but so much better now.
Seeing her being an inspirationand not giving up was mind blowing.
(24:48):
So--and then to Allison,who was a DJ in
the public eye, couldn't sleep in bedwith her husband, kicking him
violently at night, twisting her torsoso violently and suffers
from bipolar depression,has come out the other side.
Their lives have changed.
And that's the goal here,is to raise this awareness, change lives.
(25:12):
But, you know,I've been my own advocate, too.
I can't sit back and be complacent.
You know, I can't sit back.
I can't rest on my laurels.
I got to get out there and have that willto make a change for me and help
others make a change for themselves.
And that's what I've been doingwith this campaign.
It's been incredible.
(25:33):
Wow, these are powerful stories.
And thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
And to each of them.
And those that I just did not, repeat,thank you for lending your voice
to this work in your story.
And we know that, you know,as you mentioned, 60% are undiagnosed.
So if we can remove--ifwe can reduce that number,
(25:56):
10 to 20 percentage points. Wow.
I mean, and then and then actually get itto the point where it's 10% or less.
Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Wouldn't that just be wonderful?
We will, Dan. We will. Yes.
So, this is incredible.
And you know,we also, say that, people don't care
how much you know,until they know how much you care.
(26:18):
And we know that the care that you'reproviding takes a lot of energy
and it takes a lot of time.
And thank you for doing that, Carnie,and lending your voice to this
and to Neurocrine for their work here,because they-- it's a choice.
And this also helps with carebecause we care.
So, thank you to youand this work that you're doing.
(26:42):
So as we, as we talk about hope,we always wrap up our conversations
The world can be a difficult place,and sometimes it's hard
to hold on to hope.
That's why with each episode,we dedicate the last couple of minutes
(27:03):
of the podcast to a special segmentcalled Hold On to Hope.
And it's really onereally important question.
What helps you hold on to hope, Carnie?
Well, first of all, I can't,Ican't miss pointing out the obvious that,
you know, one of our--ourbiggest hit was called "Hold On."
So that's--I don't think that's a mistake here, Dan.
(27:28):
It is so important to hold onfor one more day.
It's important to hold on.
Although, I want to say we don't have tohold on anymore to get help.
So I will say that.
But we have to hold on to our--myfaith is big.
I'm a very spiritual person.
I remain teachable, I remain hopeful,I acknowledge that it's baby steps.
(27:54):
It can be one step forward, two stepsback, three steps forward, one step back.
Life is in sessionand there is no such thing as perfection.
We grow, we learn.
We reach our hand down.
And we do hold on to hope.
Because if we don't have hope,we have nothing.
Hope is faith.
(28:14):
Faith is hope.
And you know, is it-- It's not a religion.
It's not religion.
It's a force.
It's a power-- hope is a force.
And I know that everybody is capableof tapping into it.
Sometimes you just got to dipyour little pinky toe in there
(28:36):
and just feel what it feels like.
When you suffer,when you live with any kind of addiction,
mental illness,and you have that first sliver of hope,
oh boy, that's what paves the way.
And knowing that you can crack that dooropen and have that little light come in
(28:58):
and know that it's possibleto feel that hope.
That's what I'm encouraging people to do.
And I know that it's possiblebecause I've done it myself.
You have done it, and you've done itvery successfully.
And you just said somethingthat--you said so much.
But one thing, I mean, it was incredible,but I kept it.
To the audience.
Audience, "life is in session."Life is in session and then, yes, hold on.
(29:28):
If youif you can go back to your music folks,
go back and listen to "Hold On."Hang in there.
This is powerful.
And is there anythingyou'd like to leave our audience
with as I get ready to close the session,Carnie?
Yeah, I just want to say thatI'm proud of everyone.
I'm proud of anyone who's listeningright now that has that first thought.
(29:51):
Maybe they're thinkingat the beginning of this podcast.
They thought, you know, I'm going to I'mgoing to listen and see what I hear.
And I still feel that scared.
And what I hope,I hope for you, listeners, is that,
maybe I helped you open--crackthat door open a little bit
and that you'll finally,finally make that phone call,
have that conversation with yourself,with your spouse, with your kids,
(30:13):
with your health careprovider, with someone,
and that you have opened your heartto the possibility of healing.
So that's what I just want to say.
And I'm honored to be here.
I'm honored to be vulnerable.
I'm honored to be strong.
I'm honored for my lifethat I've experienced
(30:33):
because every little experiencehas made me who I am today.
The happy times, the sad times, the joy.
I allow myself to feel joy.
I want people to allow themselvesto feel joy because we deserve it.
That's it, that's it.
And life is in session.
And folks, you've been listening to CarnieWilson from Wilson Phillips and again,
(30:56):
Carnie does not have to lend her timeand talent to this.
She's doing it because she caresand it is all about hope.
So this has been Hope StartsWith Us, a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
If you are looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit nami.org/help.
(31:21):
Text "NAMI" to 62640or dial 800-950-NAMI.
Or if you are experiencingan immediate suicide, substance use,
or mental health crisis, pleasecall or text 988 to speak with the trained
supportspecialist or visit 988lifeline.org.
(31:42):
I'm Dan Gillison, your host.
Thanks for listening and be well.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.