Behind the medals, records, and highlight reels are stories of perseverance that extend beyond physical performance. In this powerful keynote panel from NAMICon 2025, world-class cyclist and Peloton instructor Christine D’Ercole; former WNBA player and mental health advocate Imani McGee-Stafford; Olympic gold medalist swimmer Allison Schmitt; and middle distance track & field athlete representing ASICS Rachel McArthur open up about their personal mental health journeys — sharing the challenges they've faced and how they continue to prioritize mental health in high-performance environments. Moderated by Anne Wintroub, head of social impact and engagement at lululemon, this conversation explores what it means to be truly strong — and why vulnerability, support, and self-awareness are essential for lasting resilience.
As students head back to classrooms this month, discover all that NAMI's Back to School resources can offer. Visit NAMI's Back to School resource hub for more ways to connect with young people heading back to school and support them through their new routines. Check out nami.org/BackToSchool to learn more.
You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.
"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.
Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
There are so many women,young women, as soon as they hit puberty,
(00:01):
they drop out of the sport.
The body is changing.
Those thingsimpact our mental health and restrict
our freedom and make us feel likewe do not have agency.
Managing our mental health,being transparent, and talking about it
in conversations like this,so that we can all get on the same page,
so that we don't have to pretendthat nothing's happening
when everything is happening,this is how we can help each other
(00:23):
with our mental health,so that we can keep doing
the things that bring us joy.
Well, hello everyone and welcome!I am so excited to be here today
with this panel of such incredible humansand athletes.
So thank you all so much for joining us.
My name is Anne Wintroub and I head upSocial Impact and Engagement at Lululemon.
(00:46):
We are a proud partner of NAMI.
We started supporting NAMIabout three years ago
when we launched our Centerfor Social Impact.
And in these past three years,we are so grateful to have been able
to contribute over$2 million to NAMI's incredible work.
Some of that work includes support for 988through the Reimagine Crisis campaign.
(01:09):
And it now also includesnew bodies of work
that we are so excited to be getting intowith NAMI on how we can best support
the mental health of athletes.
NAMI's CEO Dan Gillisonhas become a dear friend of Lululemon.
We are so lucky to have his expertiseon our Global Mental Health
Advisory Board,and I want to thank him for that.
(01:30):
Our entire company, community,and collective benefits from his
and from NAMI's work,and from their expertise.
So today we are goingto--we are here to discuss women's
mental health and the profound impactthat well-being has
on female athletes and their performance.
And it is my total honor to introducethis incredible community of leaders,
(01:52):
to share their perspectives, theirknowledge, and their experience with you.
This is our este (01:56):
world champion cyclist and peloton instructor,
Christine D'Ercole.
Christine, welcome.
Asics runner, Rachel McArthur.
Rachel, welcome.
Former WNBA playerand now lawyer, Imani McGee-Stafford.
Welcome, Imani. And olympic swimmerand gold medalist, Allison Schmidt.
Welcome, Alison.
And thank you againall so much for being here.
(02:19):
So I wanted to start by asking each of youto share who you are,
your sport, and a major milestone.
And Rachel,why don't we start with you on that?
Yeah. Hello. My name is Rachel.
As you said, I am a professional trackand field athlete with Asics.
I run middle distance events, so for me,that's the mile.
(02:40):
I guess maybe a little bit longer, 5k-ish,but strictly track.
So just track event.
And a major milestone for me,part of my journey, a big turning point
was I had surgery two years agoon my foot, and I only signed
professionally last year. So,I wasn't a professional athlete,
(03:01):
but I was returning from surgerylast year, and I won my first U.S.
title,and that was a really big deal for me.
And from there,I feel like my career kind of took off
and everything I'd workedfor kind of taken off.
And yeah, so that's where I'm at today.
I, I had a lot of,good times last year, and I'm
healthy this yearand, yeah, just enjoying the sport.
(03:22):
So glad you're having a healthy year.
And thank you for sharing.
Imani,why don't we go over to you with that? Hi.
As you mentioned,my name is Imani McGee-Stafford.
I'm a former WNBA player,currently a lawyer, almost attourney.
And I stopped playingwhen COVID happened in the WNBA
and took time to go to law school.
And last year will mark my second completeyear being back playing pro overseas.
(03:44):
So that's been really fun.
Amazing.
Congrats on such an incredible transitionand evolution.
It's just amazing.
And Christine, let's hear from you. Hi.
Well, I wantto clarify that my world championship,
which is major milestones and mastersworld championship.
So in my age group,which at the time was 45,
(04:05):
49 and 53, now.
And yes, that was a major milestone,but I think a larger milestone for me
was discovering cycling to begin with,because I grew up wanting to be a dancer,
and they told me, and we often believewhat we're told when we're children.
They told me, your thighs are too big.
(04:26):
And so the shame that came fromthat as my internal narrative
about what I was capable of isI am too big to be in front,
to be seen, to be beautiful,to be loved, to be lifted.
And when I discovered the bicycle,I found that I could find success
and feelings of being proud of myselfbecause of what my body could do,
(04:51):
not because of what somebodyelse thought it looked like.
And that,as we're talking about mental health,
being able to shift my internal narrativefrom I am not enough or too
much of somethingto I'm just right.
Sort of Goldilocks.
(05:12):
That's discovering cycling in the firstplace was my biggest milestone.
Amazing.
And big cheers to that shift.
Lifechanging.
You're still a world championeven if you are a masters world champion.
So, go you.
It's a whole--that's a mental thing.
Like wait,I'm not an Olympian, I'm not "elite."
(05:32):
Although I do race the elites sometimes.
Yeah.
That's another whole mental health partof it, you know.
Titles, but it's all--the journeyall comes together in some way or another.
And, Alison, please continue.
Hi, I'm Alison Schmitt.
I am a U.S.
(05:52):
Olympian, for swimming, four-timeOlympian and ten-time Olympic medalist.
And I feel like that right there, sayingthat, is a pivotal, like, change for me.
As growing up,my first Olympics was 18, in 2008.
My last was at 31 in 2021.
(06:13):
And being able to actually saywhat my accomplishments
are is a huge change for menot to be embarrassed about them.
I think, especially early on in my career,people would look at me
kind of like, I'm not human.
And oh, there's Olympic gold medalist,Alison Schmitt walking by.
(06:33):
And so I took that to heartbecause I am a huge person
that loves connection, just likeevery other human being loves connection.
And I love to hear other people's stories.
As you might be ableto tell throughout this call,
I love to ask questionsand really engage with other people.
So for me to be able to finally acceptthat I have a platform simply
(06:54):
because of accomplishments I've had.
But if I can use that platform for good,which, my reason why I'm finding
good is helping people feel seen, helpingpeople feel heard, and not feel alone.
And so I'm now able to be proudof my accomplishments in sport.
(07:16):
But use that platformto add good into this world.
I love that.
Well, and we're so luckythat you are able to and able to,
you know, for everyoneand everyone on this call today.
And I want to thank each of youfor being here again and for sharing.
You're all just incredible.
And I'm so excitedto learn more about you and your work.
So our next question, if you wouldn't mindsharing a really pivotal moment for you
(07:42):
where you realized that your mental healthmattered
as much as your physical conditioning.
Allison,why don't we start with you on that?
I mean, my background is great.
I, I have a lot of gratitude.
I've grown up with a lot of gratitude.
To this day, I have a lot of gratitude.
And I first started feeling like,feeling like I was putting a mask on.
At 22 years oldin 2012, coming back from 2012 Olympics,
(08:07):
where I had my greatest success, mygreatest Olympic success and five medals.
And when I came back,I felt like I was complaining
if I said something was wrong with me.
I felt like,I mean, I had so much to be grateful for.
I had so much to be thankful for,and I was comparing myself to people
who didn't have the opportunities I've hador didn't have the resources I've had.
(08:28):
And so I really internalized all of that.
It took me three years to finally get helpand be open about my own struggles.
And unfortunately, that came with thetraumatic event of
my younger cousin committing suicide.
So in that event,in that funeral, obviously
(08:49):
no one likes funerals, but I am onethat wears
my heart on my sleeve, shows emotionin every possible way, good or bad.
And at that funeral,I really felt this connection of,
my cousin's story could be told.
(09:09):
Even though she's no longer hereon this earth.
And what I experiencedis not the same that she experienced.
But there's alot of other people out there
that have experiences in their own ways.
And if we can share our own storiesand find that connection and relate
with others, then we can hopefullysave lives out there and encourage
others to continue to get helpand to continue to share their story
(09:34):
so that, again,we can become a kinder world
and not one with so much judgmentand so much hatred.
Absolutely.
And thank you for sharingthat, Allison, so much.
Imani, can we go to you now?
Would you mind sharing a pivotal momentin your experience?
Yeah, I think, so for me,my mental health journey has been,
(09:55):
it's like everlasting.
I'm bipolar,and that's something I found out
maybe my second year in the WNBA.
I kind of dealt with mental health issuesmy entire life.
I grew up in abuse.
I tried to take my life in high school,so I've kind of dealt with it,
but I never really had accessto mental resources, nor did I have, like,
(10:16):
the funding for mental health resources.
Like I didn't grow up with healthinsurance, all types of barriers to that.
Outside of just the financial part.
When I got to college, I kind of finally,finally got in front of a therapist.
I started taking antidepressants,but every time I felt
all right, I would stop taking them.
And that kindof was my cycle throughout my early 20s.
(10:37):
And when I finally got diagnosed,it was so scary.
But it was also so freeing in a way,because I finally--Like
I wasn't making it up, right?
And for bipolar individuals, like,there's like the mania,
which is super performance, high energy,like I get things done
and then there's the really,really low lows.
(10:58):
And for me, I would get tomania and be like, oh, I'm good.
Oh we're good.
We're overit. We're doing the things, we're perfect.
And then I would crash.
And so finally getting that diagnosis,it really helped me kind of realize, like,
I would probably be a bit furtherin my career
if I would manage my mental health,like in an active way.
And Iwas already speaking about mental health.
(11:18):
So also was kind of thislike imposter syndrome, with me
still having to figure outmy own mental health,
but actively talking about mental healthin public spaces as well.
I like to say I'm a little less fun,but more productive
when I'm medicated.
And kind of just navigating my own shamewith that as well, you know?
But I like who I amwhen I can manage my emotions,
(11:42):
even if it isn't as exciting as meunmedicated
and kind of finding my own acceptancewith that,
and then looking at who I can becomewhen I am taking care of my mental health
and all of the things I can accomplishon the court as well when I do that.
And so it felt a lot better,both professionally and personally once
I figured out like, oh, I'm bipolar, okay,this is how we manage that.
(12:03):
Imani, thank you for sharing.
I know, I mean, I'm so, so glad you gotthe support that you needed.
It's incrediblewhat you have accomplished.
Thank you.
And Christine, if we could hearabout your pivotal moment as well, please.
Well, I had--every yearI go through, "Am
I going to race this year?
(12:25):
I'm really going to race?
My offseason was not what I wanted it to be."
And especially now, I'm moving intomenopause.
Yeah.
My training is completely differentbecause everything hurts
in a different way.
Not being able to lift the weightI used to lift.
(12:47):
Not because I don't feel capable,but because the elbow
or the kneeor the hip or the back is hurting,
is very defeating.
And so my most currentpivotal moment in that is,
going back to 2019,I really almost did not go to that world
championships.
(13:11):
My weight, I was up 20 pounds.
I was really in my headin terms of overthinking everything and
it was almost likeI went back to where I was as a dancer
in my teen years,when I was doing
(13:34):
everything I could to make myself smaller.
And I did not go to those behaviors again,but those feelings came up.
The thoughts of the eating disorder,my self-harm
that I had done to myselfas a teenager from 13 to 18.
All of those feelingsstarted to come up again.
(13:57):
And the recognizing thatI was comparing myself to other people
because my numbers, my weight was higher,my speed was slower,
I was--I don't belong here.
And forgettingwhy I ride a bike to begin with.
(14:17):
And after sitting down with myselfand going through my recognition
of my self-talk process,it occurred to me
that I can be both determined and detachedat the same time.
(14:40):
That I canbe--I can approach the starting line
like I want to win this raceand remind myself to be present.
And detached at the same time.
Whichreally boils down to reminding myself
to be curious.
Allowing myself to be, "What if?" Whatif everything good happens?
(15:04):
What if, what if I surprise myself?
And in that moment, I found joy againon the bike and won the damn race.
And it's--I feel like that pivotal moment,
however, happens over and overand over and over again.
(15:28):
I'm scared to death.
I get out on that track and I'm like,how the heck did I get here?
What am I doing on a bikewith no brakes on a velodrome?
What is this? I wanted to be a ballerina.
And remembering just how much joythat gave me is how I'm able
to continually snap back and snap back.
(15:51):
But I have to confront it constantly.
I don't think that--I don't think that pivotal moment
is ever like a single 90 degree turn.
And then your life has changedand you figured it out.
I don't know that we ever figure it out.
Absolutely.
And I'm so struck, Christine,and thank you
by what you shared about this combinationof being determined and detached
(16:11):
and that that was a real unlockfor you about joy.
I haven't,I haven't heard thoseexperiences put together in that way.
I really appreciate that.
And, Rachel, would you share with usperhaps about the constant,
a pivotal momentor the constancy of these pivotal moments?
Yeah, I was going to say somethingreally similar to Christine, actually,
is that there wasn't-- I don't think,and there never is just one moment
(16:34):
where you kind of realize,okay, mental health matters.
For me, it's kind of the same thing.
And I think all athletes can sayyou constantly walk that line of,
am I maybe suffering a little bitmore than I should be mentally?
Or is this just the name of the game?
You know, that's just sports.
That's just being a competitive person.
You're going to have levels of anxietyand stress.
(16:56):
And I guess a bigger eye opener for mewould have been last year
at the Olympic trials.
I physically just felt really good.
And I mentioned earlierI had just signed my contract then,
so on paper everything was awesome.
I was in Eugene for a month training.
It was amazing.
And then when I lined upit was the worst race I've ever had.
I just, I remember getting on the lineand thinking, I don't want to do this.
(17:19):
The feelingI had when I crossed the line was relief.
I'm so glad this is overversus I'm excited to be here.
And I think when you,for lack of better words,
just fumble on a big stagelike that, you know, trying
to make finals, trying to make teams,that's when you really have to take a step
back and dissect what went wrong here,because that's your livelihood.
You know, you can't have that happening.
(17:42):
And it'sso hard to say, well, I wasn't injured.
I wasn't training poorly.
It was nothing like that.
But you have to look internally.
And I could recognizepretty much immediately
that I was just so stressed beyond belief.
I was very unhappy.
I was not having a good timein the least bit. So,
I think, like I said, there'sa lot of moments throughout everybody's
(18:03):
career that you kind of have to navigate.
I guess mental health struggles.
But I at least for me,it did boil down to one turning point,
which in the end, you know, I'm happythat I guess it happened.
Maybe not at the Olympic trials,but I'm happy I realized,
your mental health really doesimpact your performance way
beyond any physical attributes.
(18:26):
I want to sort of take on where you leftwith that, which is to ask each of you,
and this is threaded inmuch of what you said.
And yetI think it's particularly at NAMIcon,
if I could ask each of you to sharewhy mental health is important to you?
Absolutely.
As an athlete,but specifically, specifically as a woman.
And, Christine,can we start with you on that?
(18:48):
Specifically as a woman,we live through
a thousand different bodiesbetween puberty and menopause,
and we deserveto bear those thousand
(19:09):
different bodieswithout shame and despair.
There are so many women, young women,as soon as they hit puberty,
they drop out of the sport.
The body is changing.
Those thingsimpact our mental health and restrict
our freedom and make us feel likewe do not have agency
in our choices, in what we--inbeing able to do whatever we want to do.
(19:34):
And, so as a femalemanaging our mental health,
being transparent and talking about itin conversations like this
so that we can all get on the same page,that we don't have to pretend
that nothing's happeningwhen everything is happening.
This is how we can help each otherwith our mental health,
(19:55):
so that we can keep doingthe things that bring us joy.
Yeah, absolutely.
And Christine, I'm so, you know,I'm struck today, as I was when you and I
had the opportunity to chat earlier,just these various stages of life as,
as a female.
And the impacts of those various stageson our mental health
and having these conversations,and, you know, the opportunity to share
those experiences is so important.
(20:18):
So important.
So thank you, so much for really likesetting a standard in that.
And Rachel,can we go to you with that question.
What mental--why mental healthis important to you as a woman.
Yeah I mean mental health existsoutside of sports.
You know, outside of being an athlete,outside of being a person.
But when I think of being a woman,especially in sport, to me at least,
(20:40):
it seems like there's already thisunderlying sense of,
well, women had to work to be therein the first place
to have the same opportunitiesto compete, to perform.
So there's this pressure to perform well.
It's almost like Christine was sayingit's, you know,
you don't want to not perform well.
You don't want to have a mistake made.
You don't want to show flawsbecause it kind of just validates
(21:03):
the latter, which is, women shouldn't evenbe there in the first place, you know?
So I've constantly felt like, well,I need to perform
well, not only because I'm an athlete,but because I'm a girl who's performing
and I need to prove that to myself.
And I also, I'm on a team with all guys.
My entire team is four, four boys.
(21:23):
And that's also very difficult.
So I feel like my role as a woman is timeovershadowed by just,
you know, guys competing constantly.
So it's, it's importantto check in with myself
and with those I surround myself with.
Just remind myself, like, you're not justgood for a girl, as the guys would say.
(21:43):
You're not just goodfor a female performing.
You're doing really good.
And I think just, yeah,being in tune with yourself
and surrounding yourselfwith people who are also in tune with you,
is really important and mattersa lot to me.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you.
And, Imani,can we go to you with sharing about why
mental health is important to you?
(22:04):
I think mental health is important to mebecause, for me, it
I think the sport gives me the platform.
I'm 6'7". I was 6'5" at 13.
And I've always kind of stood out,to say the least.
But I think growing up,I never saw anybody
that was going through the same thingsI was going through.
Like, I thought I was the only personthat had lived this life.
(22:26):
And as I got older and like,my world expanded because of the sport
and I started sharing my story.
I met so many peoplewho had the exact same story as me.
And so nowI think that mental health is important
because of the younger version of methat was looking for
somebody like me to speak about it.
So I try to use the platform given to mevia sport to talk about what it looks like
(22:48):
to be a 30-year-old Black woman livingand dealing with mental illness,
and it not being debilitating.
Because I thinkwhen we do see depictions of mental health
and mental illness in popular culture,for me at least, growing up, there were
never any Black pictures of what that was.
Specifically, there's definitely neverany woman pictures of what that was.
And then it was no realisticpictures of what it was.
(23:09):
It was somebody completely perfectand happy and always smiling or somebody
deeply sorrowful,like on the brink of losing it.
Right? There was never the gray area.
So my goal with sharingmy story is to encourage others
to share bits and pieces of their story.
Because while weall might not have mental illness,
we definitely all have mental health.
And the more we share our stories,the more people can find themselves in
(23:32):
the gray area.
My goal ultimately isthat when I speak about being bipolar,
it isn't this taboo scary thing, right?
The same way I can say our sprained,my ankle last week,
I should be able to say, oh, I'm bipolarand we should be able to carry on
and know how to functionin those conversations.
Imani, I appreciate that so much.
And you know, bringing your younger selfinto who you are,
(23:53):
who you are now as a speaker,as an advocate, I really feel
that from you and appreciate it.
Thank you.
And, Allison, can we go to you?
Would you share the importanceof mental health?
Yeah.
Well, first of all,I would like to say that my heart
is, like, so full right nowjust hearing these stories.
So thank you guysfor sharing your own story
and your journey,because I can feel all of it in my heart.
(24:17):
So thank you for that.
But mental health in general is importantfor me as an athlete and as a female,
not just to perform better,but to live better.
And as--I have so much gratitude for sport,
for the invaluable lessonssport has taught me, I mean,
(24:39):
the list can go on and on, and I'm sureyou guys can agree in some ways of the,
what we learn in sport is somethingthat we can't learn in everyday life.
But there's also,like Rachel said, there's--I train
with men too, and as a woman,there are just added layers.
There's often the pressure of "be strong,but don't be emotional" or "be a leader,
(25:04):
but don't be too intense."And so to juggle everything perfectly,
there's that double standard as a woman,and it can just be exhausting.
So for me, mental health gives clarityand strength to set those boundaries,
to ask for help and to stay connectedto who you are authentically,
(25:24):
and not just to what you have achieved.
Oh, absolutely.
And I'm just again,just echoing Allison's gratitude.
I'm sostruck and not at all surprised
by how we've just gotten right into it.
So just huge appreciation for each of you,what you've experienced
and how you're really carryingthat forward. Thank you.
And, Allison, I love what you said, too,about shifting from performing
(25:45):
better to living better again, such a it'ssuch a simple articulation.
Such a challenge and so vital, right?
So thank you. Thank you for that.
All right.
So let's now--let's shift and start sharing more.
And I know you all have such experiencewith this.
About the outsideand inside pressures to perform.
(26:07):
Seems like the perfect spring off,Allison, from what you just shared.
So, you know, we'd love to dig into how the expectations on you
as an athlete, how those expectationshave shaped your mental health journey.
So, Allison, I'd love to start with you.
As we know, you are a four-timeOlympian and ten-time medalist.
It's truly remarkable.
(26:28):
Did the pressure growafter each of those games?
And how didand do you manage that pressure?
The answer's "Yes."So after the first
Olympics, people are just excitedyou're there.
And if you perform, that's even better.
But by the second or third,there's this expectation,
(26:50):
and not just from the outside world,but from yourself.
And yes, you've proven you can perform.
But now that bar is set even higher.
And so what helped me manage to--it was staying focused on the "why."
And I love to talk about thatbecause my "why" is
I fell in love with this sport.
(27:12):
I mean, I'm swimming like we swim in a boxfilled with water
with a black line for hours on end.
Like that can't be that much fun.
But I fell in love with that sportsomehow, with the people in this sport.
And that was long before the medals orthe records came, or even in the picture.
So I always try and stay groundedin that "why," and that "why" helps me
(27:37):
get out of bed in the morningto go to those practices.
I also became really intentionalabout focusing on the process and trusting
that process,and not necessarily the outcome of that.
I can only control what I can control.
I can't control who shows up,who's swimming
(27:57):
next to me, how fast they're going,how strong they're going.
But I was able to focus oncontrolling how I prepared, how
I performed,and how I responded, ultimately,
under those pressures.
And so what I was able to reallyflip the narrative
(28:18):
of is to look at pressure as a positive.
It means that people believe in you.
It means that I'm capable of doing this,and I just had to learn how to carry that
with me rather than letting that pressurecarry me.
I love that, and I'm really eagerto learn more about how.
(28:38):
How to carry that,how to carry that with you.
A lot of work.
A lot of therapy sessions,and also just a lot of
relying on my support system.
And I know for, especially in some,I mean, it's an individual sport,
but I look at it as a team sportjust because we have to rely on
so many other people and it's not--yes, I'm
(29:01):
the only one swimming in that lane,but a lot of people help me get to
where I amand using those teammates
in lifeto get you through all the ups and downs.
Because even if we look way past sport,I mean, sport is maybe,
if we're lucky, a third of our livesand way past that into life,
we're able to look at our "teammates,"so-called teammates in life and help--help
(29:29):
to help us get through any other obstaclesthat we have.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's like the uppercase Tand there's the lowercase t, right.
And those teammates in life are so,so vital to that.
So thank you Allison, so much.
And Imani, you shared your storyso openly.
And I'd really appreciate,if you wouldn't mind sharing
(29:50):
whether you thinkthat the public expectation and pressure
have held you backfrom talking about that experience sooner.
I think in terms of sharing my experience,I was 19 when I shared my story
for the first time.
I had no cluewhat it was going to turn into.
I was just talking,and I think all of the like, expectations
(30:13):
that came with thator like the scrutiny
I wasn't even aware of.
And as soon as I kind of feltthe weight of it,
I also found community surrounding it.
And in terms of pressure, like, I'ma basketball legacy.
My mother is in the Hall of Fame, my olderbrother is a three-time NBA champion.
And I'm the cute one.
(30:34):
So, you know, Ithink when I was really playing the WNBA,
it took me a while to navigatehow to, like, manage what that looked like
because I was not them.
I've never been to All.
I've never been to All-WNBA.
I have no championships in the pros.
So I very much do not stack upwhen it comes to what was expected of me,
(30:54):
or I guess, what has been done before me.
And similar to what Christine said,I kind of had to find the joy
in the process of it.
Right?
And I play a team sport,so, I can say I want to be
WNBA MVP this year, but if I'm playingfive minutes, it just won't happen.
And so, like, creating realistic goalsthat I could track myself
as opposed to necessarily outcomebased goals really helped me
(31:17):
kind of navigate the day to day of it all.
And I think you guys can probably relateto it.
I'm super goal-oriented and often times,I miss the now looking at the end.
And so I had to ask myself, okay, cool.
Like, did I still get better this seasoneven if I didn't
end up with like, the outside praiseor the accolades that I--can,
(31:38):
I tangibly look at all of the workI put in this year and see it?
Okay, cool.
And I started having to like, everythingChristine was saying, look at myself
and the things that I was doingand enjoy that part
and know that like the outcome will come.
A maybe it won't, but at least I can see,like the work and where it's going.
Yeah.
Imani,I really appreciate you sharing that.
(31:59):
I'm such a huge, fan of thesmall wins and honoring those small wins.
I don't know that we take enough spaceas athletes, as females, as leaders
to, you know, to honor those day to dayaccomplishments
when we are so like,big goal, you know, outcome, KPI-focused.
So I just really appreciate younaming that.
(32:19):
And Christine,I mean, you, speaking from experience,
you are such a pillar of strength,dedication and possibility
within the Peloton community.
So how do you manage that,while, you know, being attentive to
and honoring your own struggles.
Thank you.
That was very nice words. Transparency.
(32:42):
I mean, being honest and clear aboutwhere I am
and what's going on, I think is,is there's vulnerability in transparency,
and it has sort of becomea coined phrase that there's so much power
and vulnerability.
(33:02):
And it's true.
But I think, I think it's more rooted inthe transparency, than the vulnerability.
Because if we're not talking aboutwhat's real, what are we talking about?
We're just pretending.
So in my storytelling on the bikein front of the camera,
I will share that I'm scaredor share that I feel heavier,
I feel slower,and I think I'm going to go anyway.
(33:30):
And there's nothing more--ina whole room of people
going "yes!" Like,oh, I guess I'm going to go. I
guess I'm going to go to the race.
But at the same time,I grant myself permission
that if it comes down to the day,if I feel like the knee hurts
(33:52):
too bad in the wrong way,and it would be damaging
to do the race, then I will say,this is what's happening.
I signed up--I did a keynoteand a workshop
and a 100-mile bikeride out in Michigan for
the Muskegon Area District Libraryfor their mental health programming.
(34:15):
And I was all set to do100 miles and around 40,
I felt like I was going to--bothmy knees were going to break off.
And so I made it to 50and I had to call it.
And, you know, who am I doing this for?
I'm not doing this to prove to anybodyI could ride 100 miles.
(34:35):
I'm doing this to support other people.
This is not actually about me.
Even though there were a lot of peoplewho came because of me,
to support mental health there.
But I thinksetting an example of self-care
and finding our self-worthin our self-care,
(34:58):
not in what we can prove.
Or like I said, I was going to do it,so I'm going to do it
no matter how much it hurts me.
That's not healthy.
And, I think sharingwhat I'm actually going through in those,
in those moments,is how I can serve
(35:20):
the people who are attending my classesthe best.
It's just being real.
How do you do you view self-care?
And I ask thisbecause I grew up thinking that like,
go get your nails done, bakesome cookies, like, that kind of thing.
And it took me until I was gettingmy master's in social work to be like,
what is self-care?
(35:40):
Like I, yeah, go do these things.
And yes, they make me feel goodfor like that moment, but
it's not really changing my everyday lifeor like how I really go about my day.
So I really wonder how you view self-careand like things, ideas
that you can give other people for whatthat self-care looks like.
(36:02):
For me, self-care boils down to self-talkbecause we all talk to ourselves
and often we are incredibly unkind.
And if we were to geta transcript of everything we said
to ourselves over the course of a day,can you even imagine
(36:23):
the height of that stack of paper?
But furthermore, if we readwhat we said to ourselves,
we would find laced through those
sentences, these four pro (36:34):
I am, I can, I will, and I do.
Whether it's positive, tentative,or negative, past or present,
future tense.
I am, I was,I can, I could, I couldn't, I can't, etc.
those prompts are a roadmapand we listen to what
(36:56):
we're telling ourselves.
What we tell ourselvesis the most powerful thing we can hear.
It's louder than what anybody else says.
So if what we're telling ourselves
and the roadmap th (37:06):
I am scared.
I can't do the race.
I will not go. I don't deserve to win.
Then we're going to believe that.
So self-care for me is in challengingthat self-talk and recognizing
that I have agency in the narrative.
(37:28):
And by changing the words, I can change--I can change what's possible.
I can't change cancer.
I can't change a diagnosis.
I can't changewhat anybody else is going to do.
But I can changehow I navigate the situation
by being consciousof how I'm talking to myself.
(37:48):
And that means excusing myselffrom a conversation
when it's not serving me,or when I have to clear my thoughts.
It's about sayingno. It's about saying yes.
It's about beingin the middle of something
and you have an idea and you got towrite it down and saying, you know what?
I need to gowrite something down right now.
Can you please hold that thought?
(38:10):
It's about escaping to a bathroom forfive minutes to get my thoughts straight.
I am going to show up.
I can take the risk. I willsurrender to curiosity.
I do discover something tonight.
Just throwing those four prompts helps me.
(38:31):
That's my self-care.
It's not a manicure, though,I really could use one right now.
Got all kinds of paint under my nails.
Under my nails, not on my nails.
From painting the house.
Christine, I appreciate that so much.
And I'll share.
I had my first experiencejust last week of going to a bathroom
to get five minutes of peace.
(38:52):
I'm an extrovert and it was a very--itwas even too much extroversion for me.
So I appreciate the reframing thatwhat I was actually doing was self-care.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
100%.
It's not running awayto take care of yourself..
No, I mean, that was a tiny bit of it.
But that in itself, was self-care.
And I mean, Rachel, this getsright to you and your sport,
(39:14):
which is measured in milliseconds, right?
So how do you maintain sense of self?
How do you manage self-care when a racedoesn't go your way or when a race does?
Yeah, for me, it's totally,kind of with what everyone else is saying
about finding a sense of peace.
I always view things just in pictures,and I think there's going to be external
(39:40):
and there's going to be internal stimuli,and one of those
is always going to be crazy, butI can't control what's going on outside.
So it's always about taking a step backand trying to find internal peace
despite the environment.
I'm in.
Despite the noise that, you know,you're hearing, you're feeling elsewhere.
A big thing that I had come to accept,though,
(40:02):
is it's not about necessarilygetting rid of all pressures
you feel or completely,I guess, avoiding situations
that can cause stress and pressurebecause, like I said,
we all walk that fine line of,you're going to have that in sport.
It's kind ofabout mitigating that
and being able to do something anyways.
(40:23):
Finding peacewithin yourself and tying your happiness
also to other things, not necessarilythe results of your performance
or whether you win this raceor win this competition
or anything like that.
But I always say thatmy joy is in my journey,
and no matter the result, I'mtaking this as a step.
I'm at peace.
(40:44):
Obviously I'll be upset if it doesn't gomy way, but I never allow myself to dwell
on those types of negative emotionswhen things don't go my way
for more than like 24 hours,you should feel everything
I don't think you should ignore feelings,but I think you have to come to peace
with how things are aftera set amount of time and move forward,
because it is about the journey,and that's again
where I'm finding the joy.
(41:07):
So kind of just alwaysreminding myself of those things.
Yeah. Rachel, I love that.
And I'm curious as well.
Just in like, finding that joy,whether that's something
that has come naturally to you,whether that's,
you know, a musclethat you really focus on
building with your training,just what that process has looked like
to learnto acknowledge for the first 24 hours
(41:28):
when things aren't feeling great,and then bring in the great.
Yeah, totally not a natural thing.
I mean, like I said,I was injured for a really long time.
And as a collegiate athlete,it's oftentimes expected when you're
at certain level, that you signprofessionally right after you graduate.
Otherwise you need to kind of move on.
I graduated in 22, and I didn'tget a contract until, you know, 24.
(41:50):
So throughout those years,I think I had to really learn to implement
what I just talked about.
Just what am I doing this for?
Kind of like what was said earlier,I think, Allison said that,
is that you need to ask yourself,why am I even doing this?
And when my joy was tied to,because I want to be really good,
(42:11):
because I want to get a contract,because I want to have this as my job
and not go work a desk job.
That's really it.
Nothing was coming of that.
I was not finding anyresults, with that.
But once I kind of said, okay,what actually makes me happy?
Is it running?
Is it traveling?
Is it any of these things?
Things started just getting betternaturally because I find joy
(42:32):
in my journey of pushing myself each day,of having little goals that I can reach
and not this big, well, it'sbecause I don't want to do other things.
So yeah, it's kind of just shiftingthe narrative in your head.
It is something you have to practiceand things you have to really think about,
and sometimes you're forcedto take a step back
and that helps you think about them.
And yeah, again,just throughout those years,
I would say I really practiced it a lot.
(42:55):
That's so helpful to understand.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I love all these themesthat are emerging as well here.
And Allison you brought in the themeearlier about, you know, teams uppercase
T, lowercase t, what have you,and we'd love to go deeper on that now.
And thinking about support systems, howwe experience them, how we cultivate them.
So Imani, I'd love to start with you.
You know, inyou transition from as you share from
(43:15):
professional basketball to pursue law.
So what did thisshift do for you mentally?
That's a loaded question.
Yeah, I'm sure it is.
And perhaps who is with you,if you could share anything about, you
know, your team on that journey as well.
Yeah.
So I think the biggest part of this storyis that, there's two things.
(43:36):
One, I always say, whether you believe inGod or a high power,
like God gives a vision to you,because he didn't give it anybody else.
So like,you make an idea and look around for
outside reassurance, he didn't tell themwhat you're going to do, he told you.
And when I first saidI wanted to go to law school
and stop playing,arguably like in the peak
(43:56):
of my career, a lot of people were like,yo, you're crazy.
Like, why would you do that?
They're so dumb that--whatever the case may be.
But when I graduated, everyone was like,oh my God, I knew it.
You're going to be so great.
You know what I mean?
So I think, one understanding that, like,your life is yours
and you're allowed to reinvent yourselfand pivot as many times as you want to.
(44:17):
Not to say that won't come with frictionor uneasiness or fear,
but you can still do it, right?
And I'm blessed.
The second thing is having people aroundyou that believe in you, not what you do.
I think as athletes, we oftenare categorized by what we do.
Right?
I'm a basketball player as opposedto a person who plays basketball.
(44:38):
And as simple as that sounds,it actually is a big difference
because I had people around methat believed in me.
So when I mentionedI was thinking about law school,
somebody in the front officewho we actually ended up graduating,
at separate schools together, was like,oh, I just took the LSAT.
Take all my books and I'm like, I'mjust thinking about it.
No, no, no, take all my books. It's fine.
Try it. See if you like it. Right?
(45:00):
That's the first time I mentioned it.
When I finally was like,okay, I'm gonna take the LSAT.
We'll see how it goes.
I told my agent, like, hey,I applied to law school and I got in,
and instead of him being like, hey,we play basketball.
His response was, that's amazing.
Is that what we're doing?
Are we going to law school now?
And I was like, "yes?"You know what I mean? So,
(45:22):
I was very blessedto have people around me
that were close to me that believed inwho I was, not necessarily what I did,
and they believed in Imani.
So Imani, comma,whatever comes after that,
they were following,they rockin' with it, you know?
And so, that's my biggest thing, I think.
Make sure you have people that believein what--in you, and you can do
whatever you want to and then understandthat when you are pivoting,
(45:45):
people are only used to seeingpeople be great at one thing.
We don't understand multihyphenates.
We don't understand--wejust don't understand it as a culture.
But in reality, like you can be greatat as many things as you choose
to put the work in to do.
And so understanding like that changeand that transition from people
knowing you as one thingto the second thing might be uncomfortable
and hard, but it's possible.
(46:05):
Yeah.
Imani, what you just shared about,you know, and I feel as though
I've used this languagewith other
individuals, what you just shared aboutnot being a basketball player,
but somebody who plays basketball,you know, those
the small shifts are profound.
And I really appreciate you naming thatand those two examples that you gave
as well, the textbooks and your agent,I mean, just these like acts of support
(46:29):
and kindness, you know, these micro actsthat have these significant ripples.
It's really awesome to honor thatand to think about those as models,
really appreciate those.
They had a lot--like,I don't know if I would have gone to law
school had I been met with, "Whatare you doing?" or, "we don't do that."
Honestly, I'm pretty positiveI would have just thrown it away
as an idea of what could have been.
And luckily,you know, I had people that encouraged it.
(46:52):
Yeah.
Yes to your agent and yesto whomever gave you those LSAT books.
So cool how you created that path.
Like you went on your own path,and all those people
who hated you or were like,why are you doing this?
And you created that pathto make it possible
for, like you said,the girls that come in the future.
And it's not aunique thing or weird thing
(47:16):
to have two different pathsthat you're really passionate about.
Absolutely.
And, Alison,if we could, if we could stick with you
and I just-- I want to appreciateso much what you shared about your cousin
who died by suicide.
And Iwas, you know, so was struck
by what you shared about how thatthat brought you into this space
(47:36):
of conversation and advocacy.
And could you share with all of usas well, just how sharing that story
has, has really helped you to healfrom that experience?
It comes down to connecting with people.
I mean, this conversation and hearingother people's journeys and stories, it
(47:56):
validates that we're all humanin that we can all turn to each other
in different parts of our livesfor that support.
As a human being.
And yes,everyone is passionate on this call
about sport and elite sportand that performance.
But at the end of the day,we're all human as well.
(48:18):
And part of my story of my cousin'ssuicide,
it led me into this mental health path.
Like I said earlier,I got my master's in social work,
and if you would have asked me in collegeif I was going to go first, pursue
any more schooling, so let alone,social work, psychology, whatever that is,
(48:41):
that would have been a "no."My plan--I've always been a helper.
I've always wanted to help people.
And I thought that I want to bea kindergarten, first grade teacher.
With, schooling, with swimmingand all of that, I just couldn't
do it in undergrad because of the practiceschedule and student
teach and all of that.
So I actually did getmy undergrad in psychology,
(49:04):
and it turned out that'skind of the path that I went anyways.
But I went backand got my master's in social work
so that I could not only speakon my own story, my own experience,
not only my cousins, but the experiencethat I felt throughout my journey,
throughout my life and I can now speakon the experience mixed with the knowledge
and the education,the science behind it and help people.
(49:27):
Yes, it's still a classroom.
Yes, you're still helping people,but it's not the impactful for--which
teachers are great.
I love all teachersand they're very impactful.
I can name a few throughout my lifethat I still value so much,
and they--but I looked at my lifeand I looked at my platform
and yes, I could sitand to have 25 kids in my classroom
(49:48):
and impact them, which is huge.
But then I realized that I can use thisplatform that I've created in swimming,
in sport and talk about mental healthand talk about journey and talk about
experience and story and educateand empower others to get that help.
(50:10):
And that's kind of wheremy cousin's suicide led me on to this
path of this mental health journeyof empowering and educating others.
Yeah, so much so.
And I also, I can really feelthe teacher vibe from you as well.
And it's just, it's remarkable thatyou've, you know, stepped into a space
where you can occupy that, like,the joy and influence that teachers have.
(50:34):
In such a way with your platform,it's remarkable.
Really remarkable.
And Christine, I mean, it's "I can.
I will.
I am. I do." Did I get that right?
Is that what it is?
I've heard you on the bike so many times.
I know I didn't do that right.
I am.
I can. and I will. I do.
Thank you. Think of it this way.
We all know, or at least at some pointhave some idea
(50:57):
about where we want to go,where we'd like our lives to be.
A destination.
And let's say we call an Uberto get to a destination or open up
MapQuest.
I keep saying MapQuest.
I keep telling--I keep being told not tosay MapQuest because I'm dating myself.
(51:18):
Anyway,you open one of these map apps
because you know where you want to go.
You put on your destination,but you cannot figure out how to get where
you want to goif you do not know where you are.
You have to know your current location,your internal emotional, psychological
state of being.
Where are you?
I am scared.
(51:39):
I am frustrated.
I am unsure.
That's where you are and you can be alsowilling to take the risk at the same time.
You can be many, many thingsall at one time
and identifying all of those thingsto get a real clear
picture of where you are,what your current state of being is,
and then recognizing wha (52:02):
I can.
Then decidinga course and intention and then--I will.
And then doing it.
What action you door don't take about where you are
in order to get where you want to go.
(52:23):
So that's how--that'swhy it's in that order.
But it didn't come to me like that.
I was teaching a class like in 2004 or 5at an Equinox, and
I was playing these Japanese koto drumsand told everybody to turn it up
(52:43):
until you think you can't handle itand then tell yourself, I am, I can,
I will, I do, let's go.
And the room went, "whoa!" And I was like,oh, that was cool.
And it kind of stuck.
One last thing I'll say about that ispositive self-talk is not my jam.
(53:05):
I help-- my aim is to help peoplego from negative
self-talk to productive self-talk.
You just go to look in the mirrorsometimes, you're not going to be like, "I
love my body and mean it,"and we don't have to.
I think that can be a little toxic.
But to say,I can appreciate what those thighs can do.
(53:30):
I can appreciate how high I can jumpor how far I can run.
Because every time we lookat our bodies in the mirror,
unless we arerock solid, the idea,
the comparison as women,the comparison monster is so present.
(53:52):
And so self-talk,it all comes back to self-talk.
Yeah.
And that reframe from positiveto productive
also just really, really stands out to meas a particularly effective
grounding tool,so really, really appreciate that.
Thank you.
And Rachel, you shared a little bit about,you know, your training environment.
(54:13):
Would you mind also just getting intohow you advocate
for your own mental healthwhile competing?
Yeah,I think the biggest thing is kind of like
how I said earlier, is not tyingyour self worth to the results.
I think that's really hard to doin any sport.
You work so hard.
Your life day-in, day-out is gearedtowards a certain result.
(54:36):
But through a lot of practice,I think you need to establish
no matter what happens today,no matter how I do, no matter how
I perform, there are so many factorsthat go into this one result.
You can't tie self-worth to it.
You know, this isn't who I am.
And kind of how Imani said,you're not just an athlete,
you're a person who does this.
(54:57):
So you're also a person who has self-worthoutside of your sport, you know?
And that's the thing I'm always kind ofwriting down or reminding myself that,
you know,I can be super invested in my result.
I can sayI really, really want to do well,
you know, everything I worktowards is here in my hands.
I need to just take it.
But I can also give myselfsome grace and say, well, that doesn't
(55:22):
determine who I am or how I am as a personor anything like that.
So I think just separating the two,kind of having two different,
I guess, realms,you could say, reminding yourself
that they both can coexistis kind of how I handle all of that.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Very, very much.
So I wish we could talk all day,but I understand we can't.
(55:44):
So I'm just going to askone last question of each of you.
You know, Imani, you invokedyour younger self in this conversation.
And I think it would be wonderfulto hear from each of you
just if you could tell your younger selvessomething about your mental
health journey, your work, your person,what would it be?
Whoever wants to go first.
I can start. Go for it.
(56:06):
I think I would tell myself that you arestill you on the bad days,
and you're still worthyof all of the things.
I think I'm very blessed nowto have created an environment
of my family and friends and chosen familyat that as well,
that still love me when I stuck.
(56:26):
And when I saysuck, I mean both when I have a bad game
or alsowhen I'm just having a very bad day
and I'm not very great to be around.
And I think a lot of times,at least for me,
growing up in like a performance-basedhousehold in terms of like,
I got the good grades,I was really good at sports.
I thought that my worthand like my ability to be loved
(56:47):
had only existed when I was okay or doinggreat or, you know, being the best.
And so I would tell my younger selfthat you are still
you and still worthy to be lovedeven when you're not great.
Thank you. I'll echo it.
I mean, my advice is similar.
Just be authentically you.
And that's every single layer of you.
(57:11):
I think for so longI was the happy-go-lucky little girl.
Very grateful girl.
And yes,that's still me to the core today.
But there's a lot of other piecesand layers.
And if we look at it as a whole puzzle,each piece of me is a puzzle,
and I want it to be a complete puzzlewith every single piece.
(57:31):
So be authentically you.
And that's okay.
That's all this worldneeds is your authentic self
and realizing that is,it's not just my story,
but it's so many other peoplego through the same story
and they just go through it quietlyand by speaking out about it
(57:55):
and being authentically you,it makes it okay for others
to do the sameand be authentically themselves.
So I am motivatedby being authentically myself.
I am motivated by hearingeach of your stories,
being authentically yourself.
(58:16):
I would piggyback off that a little bitand just say to remember that
you shouldn't compare yourself.
Comparison is the thief of joy,and nobody's journey is linear.
Your journey is going to look verydifferent than the person next to you.
And so yeah, I agree withAllison saying, you need to fully embrace
all that is you and notlook at the next person, not look at
(58:39):
who came before you,not look at who's maybe coming after,
but focus on your own journeyand what brings you joy within that.
And building on all of that.
I mean, it all boils down to this,this one thing.
In a worldthat is constantly trying to teach us
that we need to be somethingother than what we are in order to matter,
(59:03):
I like to quote Shakespeare.
"Thisabove all, to thine own self be true.
And then it shall follow as the night,the day that thou canst then
be untrue to any."And I have that tattooed on my arm
as a constant reminder,as you have all said,
(59:23):
to be true to ourselves.
We're taughtnot to be true to ourselves
in order to be polite.
And it's not being impoliteto be true to ourselves if we are--
if we understand where it's coming from.
Because what--taking care of ourselvesmatters as much as everybody else
(59:45):
taking care of themselves.
From a recovering people-pleaser,looking for people-pleasing, I appreciate
hearing that.
We have to--we have to grant ourselvespermission to take care of ourselves.
We don't need anybody else's permission.
So we need to give it to ourselves.
(01:00:06):
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I love this conversation so much.
I love a conversation about sportand mental health
that concludes with Shakespeare.
Thank you for invoking those words,Christine.
Absolutely brilliant.
And you all--Allison, I think you werejust speaking about a puzzle.
Was it Imani? Allison?
Forgive me, Allison.
But you all, to me rightnow, feel like such a
(01:00:27):
put together puzzle, of all of youand your words and your wisdom.
And I'm super appreciativeof being a part of it today.
So thank you all so much.
Thank you, NAMI,for having us, for the transformative work
that you dofor communities all around this country.
And be well, everybody.
There are so many women,young women, as soon as they hit puberty,
(00:01):
they drop out of the sport.
The body is changing.
Those thingsimpact our mental health and restrict
our freedom and make us feel likewe do not have agency.
Managing our mental health,being transparent, and talking about it
in conversations like this,so that we can all get on the same page,
so that we don't have to pretendthat nothing's happening
when everything is happening,this is how we can help each other
(00:23):
with our mental health,so that we can keep doing
the things that bring us joy.
Well, hello everyone and welcome!I am so excited to be here today
with this panel of such incredible humansand athletes.
So thank you all so much for joining us.
My name is Anne Wintroub and I head upSocial Impact and Engagement at Lululemon.
(00:46):
We are a proud partner of NAMI.
We started supporting NAMIabout three years ago
when we launched our Centerfor Social Impact.
And in these past three years,we are so grateful to have been able
to contribute over$2 million to NAMI's incredible work.
Some of that work includes support for 988through the Reimagine Crisis campaign.
(01:09):
And it now also includesnew bodies of work
that we are so excited to be getting intowith NAMI on how we can best support
the mental health of athletes.
NAMI's CEO Dan Gillisonhas become a dear friend of Lululemon.
We are so lucky to have his expertiseon our Global Mental Health
Advisory Board,and I want to thank him for that.
(01:30):
Our entire company, community,and collective benefits from his
and from NAMI's work,and from their expertise.
So today we are goingto--we are here to discuss women's
mental health and the profound impactthat well-being has
on female athletes and their performance.
And it is my total honor to introducethis incredible community of leaders,
(01:52):
to share their perspectives, theirknowledge, and their experience with you.
This is our este (01:56):
world champion cyclist and peloton instructor,
Christine D'Ercole.
Christine, welcome.
Asics runner, Rachel McArthur.
Rachel, welcome.
Former WNBA playerand now lawyer, Imani McGee-Stafford.
Welcome, Imani. And olympic swimmerand gold medalist, Allison Schmidt.
Welcome, Alison.
And thank you againall so much for being here.
(02:19):
So I wanted to start by asking each of youto share who you are,
your sport, and a major milestone.
And Rachel,why don't we start with you on that?
Yeah. Hello. My name is Rachel.
As you said, I am a professional trackand field athlete with Asics.
I run middle distance events, so for me,that's the mile.
(02:40):
I guess maybe a little bit longer, 5k-ish,but strictly track.
So just track event.
And a major milestone for me,part of my journey, a big turning point
was I had surgery two years agoon my foot, and I only signed
professionally last year. So,I wasn't a professional athlete,
(03:01):
but I was returning from surgerylast year, and I won my first U.S.
title,and that was a really big deal for me.
And from there,I feel like my career kind of took off
and everything I'd workedfor kind of taken off.
And yeah, so that's where I'm at today.
I, I had a lot of,good times last year, and I'm
healthy this yearand, yeah, just enjoying the sport.
(03:22):
So glad you're having a healthy year.
And thank you for sharing.
Imani,why don't we go over to you with that? Hi.
As you mentioned,my name is Imani McGee-Stafford.
I'm a former WNBA player,currently a lawyer, almost attourney.
And I stopped playingwhen COVID happened in the WNBA
and took time to go to law school.
And last year will mark my second completeyear being back playing pro overseas.
(03:44):
So that's been really fun.
Amazing.
Congrats on such an incredible transitionand evolution.
It's just amazing.
And Christine, let's hear from you. Hi.
Well, I wantto clarify that my world championship,
which is major milestones and mastersworld championship.
So in my age group,which at the time was 45,
(04:05):
49 and 53, now.
And yes, that was a major milestone,but I think a larger milestone for me
was discovering cycling to begin with,because I grew up wanting to be a dancer,
and they told me, and we often believewhat we're told when we're children.
They told me, your thighs are too big.
(04:26):
And so the shame that came fromthat as my internal narrative
about what I was capable of isI am too big to be in front,
to be seen, to be beautiful,to be loved, to be lifted.
And when I discovered the bicycle,I found that I could find success
and feelings of being proud of myselfbecause of what my body could do,
(04:51):
not because of what somebodyelse thought it looked like.
And that,as we're talking about mental health,
being able to shift my internal narrativefrom I am not enough or too
much of somethingto I'm just right.
Sort of Goldilocks.
(05:12):
That's discovering cycling in the firstplace was my biggest milestone.
Amazing.
And big cheers to that shift.
Lifechanging.
You're still a world championeven if you are a masters world champion.
So, go you.
It's a whole--that's a mental thing.
Like wait,I'm not an Olympian, I'm not "elite."
(05:32):
Although I do race the elites sometimes.
Yeah.
That's another whole mental health partof it, you know.
Titles, but it's all--the journeyall comes together in some way or another.
And, Alison, please continue.
Hi, I'm Alison Schmitt.
I am a U.S.
(05:52):
Olympian, for swimming, four-timeOlympian and ten-time Olympic medalist.
And I feel like that right there, sayingthat, is a pivotal, like, change for me.
As growing up,my first Olympics was 18, in 2008.
My last was at 31 in 2021.
(06:13):
And being able to actually saywhat my accomplishments
are is a huge change for menot to be embarrassed about them.
I think, especially early on in my career,people would look at me
kind of like, I'm not human.
And oh, there's Olympic gold medalist,Alison Schmitt walking by.
(06:33):
And so I took that to heartbecause I am a huge person
that loves connection, just likeevery other human being loves connection.
And I love to hear other people's stories.
As you might be ableto tell throughout this call,
I love to ask questionsand really engage with other people.
So for me to be able to finally acceptthat I have a platform simply
(06:54):
because of accomplishments I've had.
But if I can use that platform for good,which, my reason why I'm finding
good is helping people feel seen, helpingpeople feel heard, and not feel alone.
And so I'm now able to be proudof my accomplishments in sport.
(07:16):
But use that platformto add good into this world.
I love that.
Well, and we're so luckythat you are able to and able to,
you know, for everyoneand everyone on this call today.
And I want to thank each of youfor being here again and for sharing.
You're all just incredible.
And I'm so excitedto learn more about you and your work.
So our next question, if you wouldn't mindsharing a really pivotal moment for you
(07:42):
where you realized that your mental healthmattered
as much as your physical conditioning.
Allison,why don't we start with you on that?
I mean, my background is great.
I, I have a lot of gratitude.
I've grown up with a lot of gratitude.
To this day, I have a lot of gratitude.
And I first started feeling like,feeling like I was putting a mask on.
At 22 years oldin 2012, coming back from 2012 Olympics,
(08:07):
where I had my greatest success, mygreatest Olympic success and five medals.
And when I came back,I felt like I was complaining
if I said something was wrong with me.
I felt like,I mean, I had so much to be grateful for.
I had so much to be thankful for,and I was comparing myself to people
who didn't have the opportunities I've hador didn't have the resources I've had.
(08:28):
And so I really internalized all of that.
It took me three years to finally get helpand be open about my own struggles.
And unfortunately, that came with thetraumatic event of
my younger cousin committing suicide.
So in that event,in that funeral, obviously
(08:49):
no one likes funerals, but I am onethat wears
my heart on my sleeve, shows emotionin every possible way, good or bad.
And at that funeral,I really felt this connection of,
my cousin's story could be told.
(09:09):
Even though she's no longer hereon this earth.
And what I experiencedis not the same that she experienced.
But there's alot of other people out there
that have experiences in their own ways.
And if we can share our own storiesand find that connection and relate
with others, then we can hopefullysave lives out there and encourage
others to continue to get helpand to continue to share their story
(09:34):
so that, again,we can become a kinder world
and not one with so much judgmentand so much hatred.
Absolutely.
And thank you for sharingthat, Allison, so much.
Imani, can we go to you now?
Would you mind sharing a pivotal momentin your experience?
Yeah, I think, so for me,my mental health journey has been,
(09:55):
it's like everlasting.
I'm bipolar,and that's something I found out
maybe my second year in the WNBA.
I kind of dealt with mental health issuesmy entire life.
I grew up in abuse.
I tried to take my life in high school,so I've kind of dealt with it,
but I never really had accessto mental resources, nor did I have, like,
(10:16):
the funding for mental health resources.
Like I didn't grow up with healthinsurance, all types of barriers to that.
Outside of just the financial part.
When I got to college, I kind of finally,finally got in front of a therapist.
I started taking antidepressants,but every time I felt
all right, I would stop taking them.
And that kindof was my cycle throughout my early 20s.
(10:37):
And when I finally got diagnosed,it was so scary.
But it was also so freeing in a way,because I finally--Like
I wasn't making it up, right?
And for bipolar individuals, like,there's like the mania,
which is super performance, high energy,like I get things done
and then there's the really,really low lows.
(10:58):
And for me, I would get tomania and be like, oh, I'm good.
Oh we're good.
We're overit. We're doing the things, we're perfect.
And then I would crash.
And so finally getting that diagnosis,it really helped me kind of realize, like,
I would probably be a bit furtherin my career
if I would manage my mental health,like in an active way.
And Iwas already speaking about mental health.
(11:18):
So also was kind of thislike imposter syndrome, with me
still having to figure outmy own mental health,
but actively talking about mental healthin public spaces as well.
I like to say I'm a little less fun,but more productive
when I'm medicated.
And kind of just navigating my own shamewith that as well, you know?
But I like who I amwhen I can manage my emotions,
(11:42):
even if it isn't as exciting as meunmedicated
and kind of finding my own acceptancewith that,
and then looking at who I can becomewhen I am taking care of my mental health
and all of the things I can accomplishon the court as well when I do that.
And so it felt a lot better,both professionally and personally once
I figured out like, oh, I'm bipolar, okay,this is how we manage that.
(12:03):
Imani, thank you for sharing.
I know, I mean, I'm so, so glad you gotthe support that you needed.
It's incrediblewhat you have accomplished.
Thank you.
And Christine, if we could hearabout your pivotal moment as well, please.
Well, I had--every yearI go through, "Am
I going to race this year?
(12:25):
I'm really going to race?
My offseason was not what I wanted it to be."
And especially now, I'm moving intomenopause.
Yeah.
My training is completely differentbecause everything hurts
in a different way.
Not being able to lift the weightI used to lift.
(12:47):
Not because I don't feel capable,but because the elbow
or the kneeor the hip or the back is hurting,
is very defeating.
And so my most currentpivotal moment in that is,
going back to 2019,I really almost did not go to that world
championships.
(13:11):
My weight, I was up 20 pounds.
I was really in my headin terms of overthinking everything and
it was almost likeI went back to where I was as a dancer
in my teen years,when I was doing
(13:34):
everything I could to make myself smaller.
And I did not go to those behaviors again,but those feelings came up.
The thoughts of the eating disorder,my self-harm
that I had done to myselfas a teenager from 13 to 18.
All of those feelingsstarted to come up again.
(13:57):
And the recognizing thatI was comparing myself to other people
because my numbers, my weight was higher,my speed was slower,
I was--I don't belong here.
And forgettingwhy I ride a bike to begin with.
(14:17):
And after sitting down with myselfand going through my recognition
of my self-talk process,it occurred to me
that I can be both determined and detachedat the same time.
(14:40):
That I canbe--I can approach the starting line
like I want to win this raceand remind myself to be present.
And detached at the same time.
Whichreally boils down to reminding myself
to be curious.
Allowing myself to be, "What if?" Whatif everything good happens?
(15:04):
What if, what if I surprise myself?
And in that moment, I found joy againon the bike and won the damn race.
And it's--I feel like that pivotal moment,
however, happens over and overand over and over again.
(15:28):
I'm scared to death.
I get out on that track and I'm like,how the heck did I get here?
What am I doing on a bikewith no brakes on a velodrome?
What is this? I wanted to be a ballerina.
And remembering just how much joythat gave me is how I'm able
to continually snap back and snap back.
(15:51):
But I have to confront it constantly.
I don't think that--I don't think that pivotal moment
is ever like a single 90 degree turn.
And then your life has changedand you figured it out.
I don't know that we ever figure it out.
Absolutely.
And I'm so struck, Christine,and thank you
by what you shared about this combinationof being determined and detached
(16:11):
and that that was a real unlockfor you about joy.
I haven't,I haven't heard thoseexperiences put together in that way.
I really appreciate that.
And, Rachel, would you share with usperhaps about the constant,
a pivotal momentor the constancy of these pivotal moments?
Yeah, I was going to say somethingreally similar to Christine, actually,
is that there wasn't-- I don't think,and there never is just one moment
(16:34):
where you kind of realize,okay, mental health matters.
For me, it's kind of the same thing.
And I think all athletes can sayyou constantly walk that line of,
am I maybe suffering a little bitmore than I should be mentally?
Or is this just the name of the game?
You know, that's just sports.
That's just being a competitive person.
You're going to have levels of anxietyand stress.
(16:56):
And I guess a bigger eye opener for mewould have been last year
at the Olympic trials.
I physically just felt really good.
And I mentioned earlierI had just signed my contract then,
so on paper everything was awesome.
I was in Eugene for a month training.
It was amazing.
And then when I lined upit was the worst race I've ever had.
I just, I remember getting on the lineand thinking, I don't want to do this.
(17:19):
The feelingI had when I crossed the line was relief.
I'm so glad this is overversus I'm excited to be here.
And I think when you,for lack of better words,
just fumble on a big stagelike that, you know, trying
to make finals, trying to make teams,that's when you really have to take a step
back and dissect what went wrong here,because that's your livelihood.
You know, you can't have that happening.
(17:42):
And it'sso hard to say, well, I wasn't injured.
I wasn't training poorly.
It was nothing like that.
But you have to look internally.
And I could recognizepretty much immediately
that I was just so stressed beyond belief.
I was very unhappy.
I was not having a good timein the least bit. So,
I think, like I said, there'sa lot of moments throughout everybody's
(18:03):
career that you kind of have to navigate.
I guess mental health struggles.
But I at least for me,it did boil down to one turning point,
which in the end, you know, I'm happythat I guess it happened.
Maybe not at the Olympic trials,but I'm happy I realized,
your mental health really doesimpact your performance way
beyond any physical attributes.
(18:26):
I want to sort of take on where you leftwith that, which is to ask each of you,
and this is threaded inmuch of what you said.
And yetI think it's particularly at NAMIcon,
if I could ask each of you to sharewhy mental health is important to you?
Absolutely.
As an athlete,but specifically, specifically as a woman.
And, Christine,can we start with you on that?
(18:48):
Specifically as a woman,we live through
a thousand different bodiesbetween puberty and menopause,
and we deserveto bear those thousand
(19:09):
different bodieswithout shame and despair.
There are so many women, young women,as soon as they hit puberty,
they drop out of the sport.
The body is changing.
Those thingsimpact our mental health and restrict
our freedom and make us feel likewe do not have agency
in our choices, in what we--inbeing able to do whatever we want to do.
(19:34):
And, so as a femalemanaging our mental health,
being transparent and talking about itin conversations like this
so that we can all get on the same page,that we don't have to pretend
that nothing's happeningwhen everything is happening.
This is how we can help each otherwith our mental health,
(19:55):
so that we can keep doingthe things that bring us joy.
Yeah, absolutely.
And Christine, I'm so, you know,I'm struck today, as I was when you and I
had the opportunity to chat earlier,just these various stages of life as,
as a female.
And the impacts of those various stageson our mental health
and having these conversations,and, you know, the opportunity to share
those experiences is so important.
(20:18):
So important.
So thank you, so much for really likesetting a standard in that.
And Rachel,can we go to you with that question.
What mental--why mental healthis important to you as a woman.
Yeah I mean mental health existsoutside of sports.
You know, outside of being an athlete,outside of being a person.
But when I think of being a woman,especially in sport, to me at least,
(20:40):
it seems like there's already thisunderlying sense of,
well, women had to work to be therein the first place
to have the same opportunitiesto compete, to perform.
So there's this pressure to perform well.
It's almost like Christine was sayingit's, you know,
you don't want to not perform well.
You don't want to have a mistake made.
You don't want to show flawsbecause it kind of just validates
(21:03):
the latter, which is, women shouldn't evenbe there in the first place, you know?
So I've constantly felt like, well,I need to perform
well, not only because I'm an athlete,but because I'm a girl who's performing
and I need to prove that to myself.
And I also, I'm on a team with all guys.
My entire team is four, four boys.
(21:23):
And that's also very difficult.
So I feel like my role as a woman is timeovershadowed by just,
you know, guys competing constantly.
So it's, it's importantto check in with myself
and with those I surround myself with.
Just remind myself, like, you're not justgood for a girl, as the guys would say.
(21:43):
You're not just goodfor a female performing.
You're doing really good.
And I think just, yeah,being in tune with yourself
and surrounding yourselfwith people who are also in tune with you,
is really important and mattersa lot to me.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you.
And, Imani,can we go to you with sharing about why
mental health is important to you?
(22:04):
I think mental health is important to mebecause, for me, it
I think the sport gives me the platform.
I'm 6'7". I was 6'5" at 13.
And I've always kind of stood out,to say the least.
But I think growing up,I never saw anybody
that was going through the same thingsI was going through.
Like, I thought I was the only personthat had lived this life.
(22:26):
And as I got older and like,my world expanded because of the sport
and I started sharing my story.
I met so many peoplewho had the exact same story as me.
And so nowI think that mental health is important
because of the younger version of methat was looking for
somebody like me to speak about it.
So I try to use the platform given to mevia sport to talk about what it looks like
(22:48):
to be a 30-year-old Black woman livingand dealing with mental illness,
and it not being debilitating.
Because I thinkwhen we do see depictions of mental health
and mental illness in popular culture,for me at least, growing up, there were
never any Black pictures of what that was.
Specifically, there's definitely neverany woman pictures of what that was.
And then it was no realisticpictures of what it was.
(23:09):
It was somebody completely perfectand happy and always smiling or somebody
deeply sorrowful,like on the brink of losing it.
Right? There was never the gray area.
So my goal with sharingmy story is to encourage others
to share bits and pieces of their story.
Because while weall might not have mental illness,
we definitely all have mental health.
And the more we share our stories,the more people can find themselves in
(23:32):
the gray area.
My goal ultimately isthat when I speak about being bipolar,
it isn't this taboo scary thing, right?
The same way I can say our sprained,my ankle last week,
I should be able to say, oh, I'm bipolarand we should be able to carry on
and know how to functionin those conversations.
Imani, I appreciate that so much.
And you know, bringing your younger selfinto who you are,
(23:53):
who you are now as a speaker,as an advocate, I really feel
that from you and appreciate it.
Thank you.
And, Allison, can we go to you?
Would you share the importanceof mental health?
Yeah.
Well, first of all,I would like to say that my heart
is, like, so full right nowjust hearing these stories.
So thank you guysfor sharing your own story
and your journey,because I can feel all of it in my heart.
(24:17):
So thank you for that.
But mental health in general is importantfor me as an athlete and as a female,
not just to perform better,but to live better.
And as--I have so much gratitude for sport,
for the invaluable lessonssport has taught me, I mean,
(24:39):
the list can go on and on, and I'm sureyou guys can agree in some ways of the,
what we learn in sport is somethingthat we can't learn in everyday life.
But there's also,like Rachel said, there's--I train
with men too, and as a woman,there are just added layers.
There's often the pressure of "be strong,but don't be emotional" or "be a leader,
(25:04):
but don't be too intense."And so to juggle everything perfectly,
there's that double standard as a woman,and it can just be exhausting.
So for me, mental health gives clarityand strength to set those boundaries,
to ask for help and to stay connectedto who you are authentically,
(25:24):
and not just to what you have achieved.
Oh, absolutely.
And I'm just again,just echoing Allison's gratitude.
I'm sostruck and not at all surprised
by how we've just gotten right into it.
So just huge appreciation for each of you,what you've experienced
and how you're really carryingthat forward. Thank you.
And, Allison, I love what you said, too,about shifting from performing
(25:45):
better to living better again, such a it'ssuch a simple articulation.
Such a challenge and so vital, right?
So thank you. Thank you for that.
All right.
So let's now--let's shift and start sharing more.
And I know you all have such experiencewith this.
About the outsideand inside pressures to perform.
(26:07):
Seems like the perfect spring off,Allison, from what you just shared.
So, you know, we'd love to dig into how the expectations on you
as an athlete, how those expectationshave shaped your mental health journey.
So, Allison, I'd love to start with you.
As we know, you are a four-timeOlympian and ten-time medalist.
It's truly remarkable.
(26:28):
Did the pressure growafter each of those games?
And how didand do you manage that pressure?
The answer's "Yes."So after the first
Olympics, people are just excitedyou're there.
And if you perform, that's even better.
But by the second or third,there's this expectation,
(26:50):
and not just from the outside world,but from yourself.
And yes, you've proven you can perform.
But now that bar is set even higher.
And so what helped me manage to--it was staying focused on the "why."
And I love to talk about thatbecause my "why" is
I fell in love with this sport.
(27:12):
I mean, I'm swimming like we swim in a boxfilled with water
with a black line for hours on end.
Like that can't be that much fun.
But I fell in love with that sportsomehow, with the people in this sport.
And that was long before the medals orthe records came, or even in the picture.
So I always try and stay groundedin that "why," and that "why" helps me
(27:37):
get out of bed in the morningto go to those practices.
I also became really intentionalabout focusing on the process and trusting
that process,and not necessarily the outcome of that.
I can only control what I can control.
I can't control who shows up,who's swimming
(27:57):
next to me, how fast they're going,how strong they're going.
But I was able to focus oncontrolling how I prepared, how
I performed,and how I responded, ultimately,
under those pressures.
And so what I was able to reallyflip the narrative
(28:18):
of is to look at pressure as a positive.
It means that people believe in you.
It means that I'm capable of doing this,and I just had to learn how to carry that
with me rather than letting that pressurecarry me.
I love that, and I'm really eagerto learn more about how.
(28:38):
How to carry that,how to carry that with you.
A lot of work.
A lot of therapy sessions,and also just a lot of
relying on my support system.
And I know for, especially in some,I mean, it's an individual sport,
but I look at it as a team sportjust because we have to rely on
so many other people and it's not--yes, I'm
(29:01):
the only one swimming in that lane,but a lot of people help me get to
where I amand using those teammates
in lifeto get you through all the ups and downs.
Because even if we look way past sport,I mean, sport is maybe,
if we're lucky, a third of our livesand way past that into life,
we're able to look at our "teammates,"so-called teammates in life and help--help
(29:29):
to help us get through any other obstaclesthat we have.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's like the uppercase Tand there's the lowercase t, right.
And those teammates in life are so,so vital to that.
So thank you Allison, so much.
And Imani, you shared your storyso openly.
And I'd really appreciate,if you wouldn't mind sharing
(29:50):
whether you thinkthat the public expectation and pressure
have held you backfrom talking about that experience sooner.
I think in terms of sharing my experience,I was 19 when I shared my story
for the first time.
I had no cluewhat it was going to turn into.
I was just talking,and I think all of the like, expectations
(30:13):
that came with thator like the scrutiny
I wasn't even aware of.
And as soon as I kind of feltthe weight of it,
I also found community surrounding it.
And in terms of pressure, like, I'ma basketball legacy.
My mother is in the Hall of Fame, my olderbrother is a three-time NBA champion.
And I'm the cute one.
(30:34):
So, you know, Ithink when I was really playing the WNBA,
it took me a while to navigatehow to, like, manage what that looked like
because I was not them.
I've never been to All.
I've never been to All-WNBA.
I have no championships in the pros.
So I very much do not stack upwhen it comes to what was expected of me,
(30:54):
or I guess, what has been done before me.
And similar to what Christine said,I kind of had to find the joy
in the process of it.
Right?
And I play a team sport,so, I can say I want to be
WNBA MVP this year, but if I'm playingfive minutes, it just won't happen.
And so, like, creating realistic goalsthat I could track myself
as opposed to necessarily outcomebased goals really helped me
(31:17):
kind of navigate the day to day of it all.
And I think you guys can probably relateto it.
I'm super goal-oriented and often times,I miss the now looking at the end.
And so I had to ask myself, okay, cool.
Like, did I still get better this seasoneven if I didn't
end up with like, the outside praiseor the accolades that I--can,
(31:38):
I tangibly look at all of the workI put in this year and see it?
Okay, cool.
And I started having to like, everythingChristine was saying, look at myself
and the things that I was doingand enjoy that part
and know that like the outcome will come.
A maybe it won't, but at least I can see,like the work and where it's going.
Yeah.
Imani,I really appreciate you sharing that.
(31:59):
I'm such a huge, fan of thesmall wins and honoring those small wins.
I don't know that we take enough spaceas athletes, as females, as leaders
to, you know, to honor those day to dayaccomplishments
when we are so like,big goal, you know, outcome, KPI-focused.
So I just really appreciate younaming that.
(32:19):
And Christine,I mean, you, speaking from experience,
you are such a pillar of strength,dedication and possibility
within the Peloton community.
So how do you manage that,while, you know, being attentive to
and honoring your own struggles.
Thank you.
That was very nice words. Transparency.
(32:42):
I mean, being honest and clear aboutwhere I am
and what's going on, I think is,is there's vulnerability in transparency,
and it has sort of becomea coined phrase that there's so much power
and vulnerability.
(33:02):
And it's true.
But I think, I think it's more rooted inthe transparency, than the vulnerability.
Because if we're not talking aboutwhat's real, what are we talking about?
We're just pretending.
So in my storytelling on the bikein front of the camera,
I will share that I'm scaredor share that I feel heavier,
I feel slower,and I think I'm going to go anyway.
(33:30):
And there's nothing more--ina whole room of people
going "yes!" Like,oh, I guess I'm going to go. I
guess I'm going to go to the race.
But at the same time,I grant myself permission
that if it comes down to the day,if I feel like the knee hurts
(33:52):
too bad in the wrong way,and it would be damaging
to do the race, then I will say,this is what's happening.
I signed up--I did a keynoteand a workshop
and a 100-mile bikeride out in Michigan for
the Muskegon Area District Libraryfor their mental health programming.
(34:15):
And I was all set to do100 miles and around 40,
I felt like I was going to--bothmy knees were going to break off.
And so I made it to 50and I had to call it.
And, you know, who am I doing this for?
I'm not doing this to prove to anybodyI could ride 100 miles.
(34:35):
I'm doing this to support other people.
This is not actually about me.
Even though there were a lot of peoplewho came because of me,
to support mental health there.
But I thinksetting an example of self-care
and finding our self-worthin our self-care,
(34:58):
not in what we can prove.
Or like I said, I was going to do it,so I'm going to do it
no matter how much it hurts me.
That's not healthy.
And, I think sharingwhat I'm actually going through in those,
in those moments,is how I can serve
(35:20):
the people who are attending my classesthe best.
It's just being real.
How do you do you view self-care?
And I ask thisbecause I grew up thinking that like,
go get your nails done, bakesome cookies, like, that kind of thing.
And it took me until I was gettingmy master's in social work to be like,
what is self-care?
(35:40):
Like I, yeah, go do these things.
And yes, they make me feel goodfor like that moment, but
it's not really changing my everyday lifeor like how I really go about my day.
So I really wonder how you view self-careand like things, ideas
that you can give other people for whatthat self-care looks like.
(36:02):
For me, self-care boils down to self-talkbecause we all talk to ourselves
and often we are incredibly unkind.
And if we were to geta transcript of everything we said
to ourselves over the course of a day,can you even imagine
(36:23):
the height of that stack of paper?
But furthermore, if we readwhat we said to ourselves,
we would find laced through those
sentences, these four pro (36:34):
I am, I can, I will, and I do.
Whether it's positive, tentative,or negative, past or present,
future tense.
I am, I was,I can, I could, I couldn't, I can't, etc.
those prompts are a roadmapand we listen to what
(36:56):
we're telling ourselves.
What we tell ourselvesis the most powerful thing we can hear.
It's louder than what anybody else says.
So if what we're telling ourselves
and the roadmap th (37:06):
I am scared.
I can't do the race.
I will not go. I don't deserve to win.
Then we're going to believe that.
So self-care for me is in challengingthat self-talk and recognizing
that I have agency in the narrative.
(37:28):
And by changing the words, I can change--I can change what's possible.
I can't change cancer.
I can't change a diagnosis.
I can't changewhat anybody else is going to do.
But I can changehow I navigate the situation
by being consciousof how I'm talking to myself.
(37:48):
And that means excusing myselffrom a conversation
when it's not serving me,or when I have to clear my thoughts.
It's about sayingno. It's about saying yes.
It's about beingin the middle of something
and you have an idea and you got towrite it down and saying, you know what?
I need to gowrite something down right now.
Can you please hold that thought?
(38:10):
It's about escaping to a bathroom forfive minutes to get my thoughts straight.
I am going to show up.
I can take the risk. I willsurrender to curiosity.
I do discover something tonight.
Just throwing those four prompts helps me.
(38:31):
That's my self-care.
It's not a manicure, though,I really could use one right now.
Got all kinds of paint under my nails.
Under my nails, not on my nails.
From painting the house.
Christine, I appreciate that so much.
And I'll share.
I had my first experiencejust last week of going to a bathroom
to get five minutes of peace.
(38:52):
I'm an extrovert and it was a very--itwas even too much extroversion for me.
So I appreciate the reframing thatwhat I was actually doing was self-care.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
100%.
It's not running awayto take care of yourself..
No, I mean, that was a tiny bit of it.
But that in itself, was self-care.
And I mean, Rachel, this getsright to you and your sport,
(39:14):
which is measured in milliseconds, right?
So how do you maintain sense of self?
How do you manage self-care when a racedoesn't go your way or when a race does?
Yeah, for me, it's totally,kind of with what everyone else is saying
about finding a sense of peace.
I always view things just in pictures,and I think there's going to be external
(39:40):
and there's going to be internal stimuli,and one of those
is always going to be crazy, butI can't control what's going on outside.
So it's always about taking a step backand trying to find internal peace
despite the environment.
I'm in.
Despite the noise that, you know,you're hearing, you're feeling elsewhere.
A big thing that I had come to accept,though,
(40:02):
is it's not about necessarilygetting rid of all pressures
you feel or completely,I guess, avoiding situations
that can cause stress and pressurebecause, like I said,
we all walk that fine line of,you're going to have that in sport.
It's kind ofabout mitigating that
and being able to do something anyways.
(40:23):
Finding peacewithin yourself and tying your happiness
also to other things, not necessarilythe results of your performance
or whether you win this raceor win this competition
or anything like that.
But I always say thatmy joy is in my journey,
and no matter the result, I'mtaking this as a step.
I'm at peace.
(40:44):
Obviously I'll be upset if it doesn't gomy way, but I never allow myself to dwell
on those types of negative emotionswhen things don't go my way
for more than like 24 hours,you should feel everything
I don't think you should ignore feelings,but I think you have to come to peace
with how things are aftera set amount of time and move forward,
because it is about the journey,and that's again
where I'm finding the joy.
(41:07):
So kind of just alwaysreminding myself of those things.
Yeah. Rachel, I love that.
And I'm curious as well.
Just in like, finding that joy,whether that's something
that has come naturally to you,whether that's,
you know, a musclethat you really focus on
building with your training,just what that process has looked like
to learnto acknowledge for the first 24 hours
(41:28):
when things aren't feeling great,and then bring in the great.
Yeah, totally not a natural thing.
I mean, like I said,I was injured for a really long time.
And as a collegiate athlete,it's oftentimes expected when you're
at certain level, that you signprofessionally right after you graduate.
Otherwise you need to kind of move on.
I graduated in 22, and I didn'tget a contract until, you know, 24.
(41:50):
So throughout those years,I think I had to really learn to implement
what I just talked about.
Just what am I doing this for?
Kind of like what was said earlier,I think, Allison said that,
is that you need to ask yourself,why am I even doing this?
And when my joy was tied to,because I want to be really good,
(42:11):
because I want to get a contract,because I want to have this as my job
and not go work a desk job.
That's really it.
Nothing was coming of that.
I was not finding anyresults, with that.
But once I kind of said, okay,what actually makes me happy?
Is it running?
Is it traveling?
Is it any of these things?
Things started just getting betternaturally because I find joy
(42:32):
in my journey of pushing myself each day,of having little goals that I can reach
and not this big, well, it'sbecause I don't want to do other things.
So yeah, it's kind of just shiftingthe narrative in your head.
It is something you have to practiceand things you have to really think about,
and sometimes you're forcedto take a step back
and that helps you think about them.
And yeah, again,just throughout those years,
I would say I really practiced it a lot.
(42:55):
That's so helpful to understand.
Thank you for sharing that.
And I love all these themesthat are emerging as well here.
And Allison you brought in the themeearlier about, you know, teams uppercase
T, lowercase t, what have you,and we'd love to go deeper on that now.
And thinking about support systems, howwe experience them, how we cultivate them.
So Imani, I'd love to start with you.
You know, inyou transition from as you share from
(43:15):
professional basketball to pursue law.
So what did thisshift do for you mentally?
That's a loaded question.
Yeah, I'm sure it is.
And perhaps who is with you,if you could share anything about, you
know, your team on that journey as well.
Yeah.
So I think the biggest part of this storyis that, there's two things.
(43:36):
One, I always say, whether you believe inGod or a high power,
like God gives a vision to you,because he didn't give it anybody else.
So like,you make an idea and look around for
outside reassurance, he didn't tell themwhat you're going to do, he told you.
And when I first saidI wanted to go to law school
and stop playing,arguably like in the peak
(43:56):
of my career, a lot of people were like,yo, you're crazy.
Like, why would you do that?
They're so dumb that--whatever the case may be.
But when I graduated, everyone was like,oh my God, I knew it.
You're going to be so great.
You know what I mean?
So I think, one understanding that, like,your life is yours
and you're allowed to reinvent yourselfand pivot as many times as you want to.
(44:17):
Not to say that won't come with frictionor uneasiness or fear,
but you can still do it, right?
And I'm blessed.
The second thing is having people aroundyou that believe in you, not what you do.
I think as athletes, we oftenare categorized by what we do.
Right?
I'm a basketball player as opposedto a person who plays basketball.
(44:38):
And as simple as that sounds,it actually is a big difference
because I had people around methat believed in me.
So when I mentionedI was thinking about law school,
somebody in the front officewho we actually ended up graduating,
at separate schools together, was like,oh, I just took the LSAT.
Take all my books and I'm like, I'mjust thinking about it.
No, no, no, take all my books. It's fine.
Try it. See if you like it. Right?
(45:00):
That's the first time I mentioned it.
When I finally was like,okay, I'm gonna take the LSAT.
We'll see how it goes.
I told my agent, like, hey,I applied to law school and I got in,
and instead of him being like, hey,we play basketball.
His response was, that's amazing.
Is that what we're doing?
Are we going to law school now?
And I was like, "yes?"You know what I mean? So,
(45:22):
I was very blessedto have people around me
that were close to me that believed inwho I was, not necessarily what I did,
and they believed in Imani.
So Imani, comma,whatever comes after that,
they were following,they rockin' with it, you know?
And so, that's my biggest thing, I think.
Make sure you have people that believein what--in you, and you can do
whatever you want to and then understandthat when you are pivoting,
(45:45):
people are only used to seeingpeople be great at one thing.
We don't understand multihyphenates.
We don't understand--wejust don't understand it as a culture.
But in reality, like you can be greatat as many things as you choose
to put the work in to do.
And so understanding like that changeand that transition from people
knowing you as one thingto the second thing might be uncomfortable
and hard, but it's possible.
(46:05):
Yeah.
Imani, what you just shared about,you know, and I feel as though
I've used this languagewith other
individuals, what you just shared aboutnot being a basketball player,
but somebody who plays basketball,you know, those
the small shifts are profound.
And I really appreciate you naming thatand those two examples that you gave
as well, the textbooks and your agent,I mean, just these like acts of support
(46:29):
and kindness, you know, these micro actsthat have these significant ripples.
It's really awesome to honor thatand to think about those as models,
really appreciate those.
They had a lot--like,I don't know if I would have gone to law
school had I been met with, "Whatare you doing?" or, "we don't do that."
Honestly, I'm pretty positiveI would have just thrown it away
as an idea of what could have been.
And luckily,you know, I had people that encouraged it.
(46:52):
Yeah.
Yes to your agent and yesto whomever gave you those LSAT books.
So cool how you created that path.
Like you went on your own path,and all those people
who hated you or were like,why are you doing this?
And you created that pathto make it possible
for, like you said,the girls that come in the future.
And it's not aunique thing or weird thing
(47:16):
to have two different pathsthat you're really passionate about.
Absolutely.
And, Alison,if we could, if we could stick with you
and I just-- I want to appreciateso much what you shared about your cousin
who died by suicide.
And Iwas, you know, so was struck
by what you shared about how thatthat brought you into this space
(47:36):
of conversation and advocacy.
And could you share with all of usas well, just how sharing that story
has, has really helped you to healfrom that experience?
It comes down to connecting with people.
I mean, this conversation and hearingother people's journeys and stories, it
(47:56):
validates that we're all humanin that we can all turn to each other
in different parts of our livesfor that support.
As a human being.
And yes,everyone is passionate on this call
about sport and elite sportand that performance.
But at the end of the day,we're all human as well.
(48:18):
And part of my story of my cousin'ssuicide,
it led me into this mental health path.
Like I said earlier,I got my master's in social work,
and if you would have asked me in collegeif I was going to go first, pursue
any more schooling, so let alone,social work, psychology, whatever that is,
(48:41):
that would have been a "no."My plan--I've always been a helper.
I've always wanted to help people.
And I thought that I want to bea kindergarten, first grade teacher.
With, schooling, with swimmingand all of that, I just couldn't
do it in undergrad because of the practiceschedule and student
teach and all of that.
So I actually did getmy undergrad in psychology,
(49:04):
and it turned out that'skind of the path that I went anyways.
But I went backand got my master's in social work
so that I could not only speakon my own story, my own experience,
not only my cousins, but the experiencethat I felt throughout my journey,
throughout my life and I can now speakon the experience mixed with the knowledge
and the education,the science behind it and help people.
(49:27):
Yes, it's still a classroom.
Yes, you're still helping people,but it's not the impactful for--which
teachers are great.
I love all teachersand they're very impactful.
I can name a few throughout my lifethat I still value so much,
and they--but I looked at my lifeand I looked at my platform
and yes, I could sitand to have 25 kids in my classroom
(49:48):
and impact them, which is huge.
But then I realized that I can use thisplatform that I've created in swimming,
in sport and talk about mental healthand talk about journey and talk about
experience and story and educateand empower others to get that help.
(50:10):
And that's kind of wheremy cousin's suicide led me on to this
path of this mental health journeyof empowering and educating others.
Yeah, so much so.
And I also, I can really feelthe teacher vibe from you as well.
And it's just, it's remarkable thatyou've, you know, stepped into a space
where you can occupy that, like,the joy and influence that teachers have.
(50:34):
In such a way with your platform,it's remarkable.
Really remarkable.
And Christine, I mean, it's "I can.
I will.
I am. I do." Did I get that right?
Is that what it is?
I've heard you on the bike so many times.
I know I didn't do that right.
I am.
I can. and I will. I do.
Thank you. Think of it this way.
We all know, or at least at some pointhave some idea
(50:57):
about where we want to go,where we'd like our lives to be.
A destination.
And let's say we call an Uberto get to a destination or open up
MapQuest.
I keep saying MapQuest.
I keep telling--I keep being told not tosay MapQuest because I'm dating myself.
(51:18):
Anyway,you open one of these map apps
because you know where you want to go.
You put on your destination,but you cannot figure out how to get where
you want to goif you do not know where you are.
You have to know your current location,your internal emotional, psychological
state of being.
Where are you?
I am scared.
(51:39):
I am frustrated.
I am unsure.
That's where you are and you can be alsowilling to take the risk at the same time.
You can be many, many thingsall at one time
and identifying all of those thingsto get a real clear
picture of where you are,what your current state of being is,
and then recognizing wha (52:02):
I can.
Then decidinga course and intention and then--I will.
And then doing it.
What action you door don't take about where you are
in order to get where you want to go.
(52:23):
So that's how--that'swhy it's in that order.
But it didn't come to me like that.
I was teaching a class like in 2004 or 5at an Equinox, and
I was playing these Japanese koto drumsand told everybody to turn it up
(52:43):
until you think you can't handle itand then tell yourself, I am, I can,
I will, I do, let's go.
And the room went, "whoa!" And I was like,oh, that was cool.
And it kind of stuck.
One last thing I'll say about that ispositive self-talk is not my jam.
(53:05):
I help-- my aim is to help peoplego from negative
self-talk to productive self-talk.
You just go to look in the mirrorsometimes, you're not going to be like, "I
love my body and mean it,"and we don't have to.
I think that can be a little toxic.
But to say,I can appreciate what those thighs can do.
(53:30):
I can appreciate how high I can jumpor how far I can run.
Because every time we lookat our bodies in the mirror,
unless we arerock solid, the idea,
the comparison as women,the comparison monster is so present.
(53:52):
And so self-talk,it all comes back to self-talk.
Yeah.
And that reframe from positiveto productive
also just really, really stands out to meas a particularly effective
grounding tool,so really, really appreciate that.
Thank you.
And Rachel, you shared a little bit about,you know, your training environment.
(54:13):
Would you mind also just getting intohow you advocate
for your own mental healthwhile competing?
Yeah,I think the biggest thing is kind of like
how I said earlier, is not tyingyour self worth to the results.
I think that's really hard to doin any sport.
You work so hard.
Your life day-in, day-out is gearedtowards a certain result.
(54:36):
But through a lot of practice,I think you need to establish
no matter what happens today,no matter how I do, no matter how
I perform, there are so many factorsthat go into this one result.
You can't tie self-worth to it.
You know, this isn't who I am.
And kind of how Imani said,you're not just an athlete,
you're a person who does this.
(54:57):
So you're also a person who has self-worthoutside of your sport, you know?
And that's the thing I'm always kind ofwriting down or reminding myself that,
you know,I can be super invested in my result.
I can sayI really, really want to do well,
you know, everything I worktowards is here in my hands.
I need to just take it.
But I can also give myselfsome grace and say, well, that doesn't
(55:22):
determine who I am or how I am as a personor anything like that.
So I think just separating the two,kind of having two different,
I guess, realms,you could say, reminding yourself
that they both can coexistis kind of how I handle all of that.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Very, very much.
So I wish we could talk all day,but I understand we can't.
(55:44):
So I'm just going to askone last question of each of you.
You know, Imani, you invokedyour younger self in this conversation.
And I think it would be wonderfulto hear from each of you
just if you could tell your younger selvessomething about your mental
health journey, your work, your person,what would it be?
Whoever wants to go first.
I can start. Go for it.
(56:06):
I think I would tell myself that you arestill you on the bad days,
and you're still worthyof all of the things.
I think I'm very blessed nowto have created an environment
of my family and friends and chosen familyat that as well,
that still love me when I stuck.
(56:26):
And when I saysuck, I mean both when I have a bad game
or alsowhen I'm just having a very bad day
and I'm not very great to be around.
And I think a lot of times,at least for me,
growing up in like a performance-basedhousehold in terms of like,
I got the good grades,I was really good at sports.
I thought that my worthand like my ability to be loved
(56:47):
had only existed when I was okay or doinggreat or, you know, being the best.
And so I would tell my younger selfthat you are still
you and still worthy to be lovedeven when you're not great.
Thank you. I'll echo it.
I mean, my advice is similar.
Just be authentically you.
And that's every single layer of you.
(57:11):
I think for so longI was the happy-go-lucky little girl.
Very grateful girl.
And yes,that's still me to the core today.
But there's a lot of other piecesand layers.
And if we look at it as a whole puzzle,each piece of me is a puzzle,
and I want it to be a complete puzzlewith every single piece.
(57:31):
So be authentically you.
And that's okay.
That's all this worldneeds is your authentic self
and realizing that is,it's not just my story,
but it's so many other peoplego through the same story
and they just go through it quietlyand by speaking out about it
(57:55):
and being authentically you,it makes it okay for others
to do the sameand be authentically themselves.
So I am motivatedby being authentically myself.
I am motivated by hearingeach of your stories,
being authentically yourself.
(58:16):
I would piggyback off that a little bitand just say to remember that
you shouldn't compare yourself.
Comparison is the thief of joy,and nobody's journey is linear.
Your journey is going to look verydifferent than the person next to you.
And so yeah, I agree withAllison saying, you need to fully embrace
all that is you and notlook at the next person, not look at
(58:39):
who came before you,not look at who's maybe coming after,
but focus on your own journeyand what brings you joy within that.
And building on all of that.
I mean, it all boils down to this,this one thing.
In a worldthat is constantly trying to teach us
that we need to be somethingother than what we are in order to matter,
(59:03):
I like to quote Shakespeare.
"Thisabove all, to thine own self be true.
And then it shall follow as the night,the day that thou canst then
be untrue to any."And I have that tattooed on my arm
as a constant reminder,as you have all said,
(59:23):
to be true to ourselves.
We're taughtnot to be true to ourselves
in order to be polite.
And it's not being impoliteto be true to ourselves if we are--
if we understand where it's coming from.
Because what--taking care of ourselvesmatters as much as everybody else
(59:45):
taking care of themselves.
From a recovering people-pleaser,looking for people-pleasing, I appreciate
hearing that.
We have to--we have to grant ourselvespermission to take care of ourselves.
We don't need anybody else's permission.
So we need to give it to ourselves.
(01:00:06):
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I love this conversation so much.
I love a conversation about sportand mental health
that concludes with Shakespeare.
Thank you for invoking those words,Christine.
Absolutely brilliant.
And you all--Allison, I think you werejust speaking about a puzzle.
Was it Imani? Allison?
Forgive me, Allison.
But you all, to me rightnow, feel like such a
(01:00:27):
put together puzzle, of all of youand your words and your wisdom.
And I'm super appreciativeof being a part of it today.
So thank you all so much.
Thank you, NAMI,for having us, for the transformative work
that you dofor communities all around this country.
And be well, everybody.
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Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com