May 6, 2026 • 32 mins
Joshua Bassett, popular musician and actor best known for his role in “High School Musical: The Musical: The Series,” joins the podcast for an exploration into coming of age under constant evaluation. Joshua’s new book, “Rookie: My Public, Private, and Secret Life,” was released this week, published as Mental Health Awareness Month begins. As a young person struggling with anxiety and addiction, Joshua learned that the journey to recovery is often not linear. In this episode, listeners will hear NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. and Joshua discuss the keys to Joshua’s recovery, how acting in a high-profile show impacted his identity and growth, the ways art surpasses performance and becomes survival, the role of hope in his healing journey, and more.
You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.
"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.
Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Love is the reason weget up. Love is the reason we keep going.
Love is the reason we serve.
Love is the reason we do anything.
And so when you when you hold on to love,that's where hope comes naturally.
Welcome to Hope Starts With Us,a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
I'm your host, Dan Gillison, NAMI's CEO.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
(00:24):
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
Hope starts with us sharing our stories.
Hope starts with us breaking the stigma.
If you or a loved one is strugglingwith a mental health condition
(00:45):
and have been looking for hope,we made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episodewith each conversation brings
you into that collectiveso you know you are not alone.
Our guest today,Joshua Bassett, an American actor,
(01:07):
singer-songwriter, and musicianbest known for his role in Disney
Plus's (01:12):
The Musical
My Public, Private and Secret Life,published just this week at the start
of Mental Health Awareness Month.
A memoir in verse told through poemsand prayers.
Is a coming-of-age storyfor the anxious generation, told by
(01:34):
someonewhose life is unusually visible, but
whose emotional experience iswidely shared.
Joshua is also a NAMI ambassador,partnering with NAMI, donating $1
for every preorder of his new book,placed by January 15th earlier this year.
Joshua's goal is to give young peoplepermission to share their stories
and start before they're ready.
(01:56):
Welcome, Joshua to Hope starts with usand thank you for becoming a NAMI
ambassador and joining us today,and we're so glad you're joining us.
Thank you so much, Dan.
I mean, thank you for paving the wayand pioneering such an awesome, wonderful
organization that's truly helpingso many people of so many different ages.
I was so inspired,just speaking to some of your,
(02:16):
some of your partnersand what you guys do is just so beautiful.
So thank you guys for paving the way.
I'm just happy to kind of join the,join the parade.
Well, you know what?
It's so important.
Your voice is so critically important.
And as we saidat the top of this introduction,
whose life is unusually visible.
(02:37):
You know, it's--Joshua, we'll get into that.
But it reminds me of the cover of a book.
And what you're going to dois, is really take us into the
to the,to the table of contents and the chapters.
And thank you for taking us insidethat book and that book being you
and what you are so interestedin sharing with us.
So we're glad that you're joining usto help us kick off Mental Health
(02:57):
Awareness Month and NAMI's themethis year, Joshua, is really,
really important.
Stigma grows in silence.
Healing begins in community.
That is all about sharing stories,showing how community supports recovery,
and connecting with each other.
Would you start our conversation todayby telling our listeners
your story, and what led you to becominga mental health advocate, Joshua?
(03:21):
Absolutely.
I mean, you know,I'll try to not take too much of your time
with the story, but yeah,so I was, I was homeschooled, technically,
but I like to say that I was "no schooled"because realistically, I was not really
doing any schoolwork,but I was a very creative child, and I
did a lot of theater growing up as welland was constantly creating,
(03:43):
you know, at any second I was awake,essentially making videos, making songs.
I had the freedomto kind of be very creative,
but I also felt very, felt very alone.
I have five sisters, and I kind of feltlike the black sheep of the family and,
you know, was oftenkind of teased for being homeschooled
or for not knowing things.
And so I always felt very stupid.
(04:04):
And that was a very debilitating thing.
And I felt socially stuntedbecause of that as well.
And so, you know, basically when I was 16,I started to pick up some work in LA,
and I moved out on my owncompletely to live in my car in LA.
And it's not likeI had a falling out with my parents,
but it was just circumstantialthat I ended up making--
(04:26):
It ended up making sense for meto kind of be out there on my own,
and I felt like I was mature for my age.
And so, yeah,I was basically living in my car,
you know, showering at the gym,working in Hollywood.
And I was very fortunateto be very successful very early on
and sort of as my career took off,you know, I was writing songs
for the show High School Musical,and I was "living the dream," as they say.
(04:47):
And just as soon as I startedsort of have that success, I
was also met with quitean ugly sort of online--what's the word?
I guess you could say attack.
But, you know, there was just a lot ofthings being said about me and,
you know, false assumptionsand or just ways in which you know
(05:10):
how it works with the media and how thingscan kind of be blown out of proportion.
And so, essentially, I experiencedheart failure and septic shock
after about seven days ofjust not being able to get out of bed.
And we can go into all the reasonsfor why that is.
And, you know, a large reasonthey believe is because of stress.
(05:31):
But regardless,I ended up having heart failure and
was given 12 hoursto live, essentially, in the hospital.
They saidif I hadn't checked in within 12 hours,
I would have been found in my apartment.
End quote.
And in the hospitalmy mom was able to join me there.
When the doctors left the room, I said,I need help out loud to an empty room,
and when I said I need help,I had full body chills.
(05:53):
The doctors came back and said,we don't know what changed,
but you're getting better.
And I was supposed to have myocarditisfor the rest of my life.
And limited diet, limited exercise.
They did testsand they said, we never seen this,
but it's as though it never happened.
And when the doctors use the word miracle,you know, it's got to be something
because they never want to use the wordmiracle.
You know, there's alwayssome scientific explanation.
But all it took was me saying "I needhelp," which I think is very interesting.
(06:17):
We can get down to that later.
But even though I was physically healed,I was-- it began like the worst
few years of my entire life.
I was strugglingwith all kinds of addictions
and all kinds of mental illness,and there are many days
in which I actually wishthat I hadn't made it out of the hospital
because of the daily hellthat I was experiencing.
(06:37):
And at rock bottom,I had a sort of a spiritual encounter
with Jesus, which might be where I losesome people, but that's okay.
I experienced peace for the first timeand have kind of rebuilt my life
on what really matters, which is to serveand to love and community.
And so I've done my best to be openand honest, because the reality is
a lot of mental illness is due to shame.
(07:00):
Some of it is due to imbalancesin the brain,
some of it is due to rejection.
There's no end, I guess,to the list of things
that might cause mental illness.
And I feel like I've experiencedso many of them.
And I've found that being vulnerableinvites other people to be vulnerable.
And the, you know, sort of the truth is,like yesterday, for example,
(07:24):
I was having a really, really, really hardday and I almost didn't want to
come onto this podcast because I was like,who am I to talk about mental illness
or sort of the recovery when I feel likeI am sometimes not stable.
And I think what's beautiful is being ableto be completely raw
and honest about the journey.
And some days are upand sometimes you swing down
and I think it's more importantto be honest.
(07:45):
Every now and again, you know,I have those struggles
to where I think I'm doing all right.
And then all of a suddenI'm kind of hit with a tidal wave
of emotion or sadness or grief or despair.
And yesterday I was really, really,really at a low point and I was just like,
so ready to just like,you know, not do all my response--
but I was feeling so much agonyinternally and I ended up,
you know, crying for a couple hours.
(08:08):
And I reached out to a friendand we had a wonderful night,
and I feel a lot better today.
All that to say, I'm saying this becausethe mental health journey is never linear
and it's messy and complicated,but the most important thing is to
reach out for help.
Like I said, when you need help.
And so I'm still learning every daythe sort of tools
both from a practical perspective of,you know, understanding the vagus nerve
and our nervous systemand how a lot of times
(08:31):
when our nervous systems are out of whack,it leads to a lot of mental health issues.
So there's a practical side to it.
There's a spiritual side.
There's a community, personal,emotional side to it.
And I'm still learning every dayall the different tools on how to live
a better and more balanced life.
And that's not to sayyou don't experience ups and downs,
but it's learning the toolsto get through that.
(08:52):
And that's what I hopeto bring people with my book.
That'swhat I hope to do with my whole life,
is to help equip people with the toolsand with the hope
and with the resilience to get throughwhatever it is that they're going through.
So that was a whole lot.
Feel free to,you know, jump in on anything there.
But I wasn't sure what to leave inand what to take out.
You know what?
No, don't take anything out.
(09:12):
Bring it all in, Joshua.
Now I want to start. First of all,thank you.
Thank you for sharing your story.
You've already helped so manyjust with what you've shared so far.
Let's call that a sound bite.
You know, about sound bitesand that kind of thing.
You talked about tools.
You talked about hope.
You talk about resilience.
You also said somethingI want to pause on it.
That was, you almost didn't want tocome on this podcast
(09:33):
because of how you were feeling yesterday.
We want to make sure you knowthat you sharing your story--you
mentioned this word vulnerability.
There's so much strengthin your vulnerability
and you and your authenticity.
We often say people don't carehow much you know
until they know how much you care.
So you're demonstrating how much you careby sharing your story
(09:56):
and being vulnerable.
So thank you for your authenticity.
And I want to make sure that you'refeeling good about this conversation,
because that's what this is.
This is a conversation back and forth.
But the point of the conversationis to to help others and to be Joshua.
So thank you.
And thank you for being an ambassadorfor Joshua because,
I mean for NAMI excuse me, Joshua,because this is fantastic.
(10:19):
And maybe that wasn't a faux paswhen I said being an ambassador
for Joshua, because you have to beyour greatest advocate at this point,
and I'm hearing that in your storyand what you're sharing.
So thank you for being an advocatefor yourself, for Joshua,
and also for being an ambassador for us.
So let's get this story goingand thank you.
And there's nothingthat you've said that is
(10:43):
not accurate.
You talked about now where you are,your station of life is to serve, to love.
And it's about community.
And you talked about a number of thingsthat I took some notes on.
So I want to stay insideof what you've discussed,
but I want you to feel comfortablein sharing what you'd like to share.
And so you mentionedwe know that recovery is often not linear.
(11:04):
And your book you wrote, "Getting betterdidn't happen all at once.
It happened in inches."What were some of the key factors
for you in achieving recovery?
I think you've shared some of thatwith us,
but let's back up a second and let'stalk about that for our listeners.
Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting.
You know, I don'tknow if I talked about this in the book
or I talk about this all the time,but there's this thing, Rat Park.
(11:26):
I don't know if you've heard about it,but I'm always talking about Rat Park.
Oftentimes we think, oh,if you just take away the substance,
and this substance can be anything, right?
Social media, sugar, it can be all, thewhole spectrum of things we used to numb.
If you just take that away,then that'll cure the addiction.
But the reality isit was in connection that they found
there was freedom from that in the rats.
And think abouthow much more that is true for humans.
(11:49):
And I think oftentimesthere's a stigma around addiction,
and there's a lot of shaming and blamingpeople who are addicted.
And you look at,maybe you walk by someone on the street
who's unhoused,and you look at them
with a little bit of judgment of like,oh, well, you know, it's your fault
you got to this place.
You know, sometimes people can assume thatand not understanding,
you know, the traumasand the things that person
(12:10):
has been through that I betif you walk their life you would be coping
with heroin as well, and or a cigaretteand or whatever you get your hands on.
So to answer your question, going back,I think the most fundamental thing
I would say that has beencrucial has been connection. And
there are just somewonderful friends
who have held my hand through the fire.
(12:34):
And what I love about what NAMI doesis connects you with community, right?
There's counciland that's super important, right?
Having the right people who are expertsin their field to understand
the human mind and brain and biologyand all that stuff is crucial.
But ultimately, without loveand connection, it's just information.
(12:54):
And, you know, I think we live in a worldthat is so unbelievably divided and dark
and scary and cold, and peopledon't feel safe in their own homes.
They don't feel safe at school,they don't feel safe online.
And so it leads to this isolation.
And that is where mental illnessthrives in isolation.
(13:15):
So I could give you all the toolsthat I found on
how to regulate my nervous systemand how to, you know, work
through an emotionor how to et cetera, etc., etc.
we can get into all those.
They're very valuable.
And I have many, many toolsthat I pull from a different times.
But I would say the common denominator,the one most important thing
has been connection.
And that's my personal connection to God.
(13:36):
And you know, the wordGod can have a stigma,
and a lot of peoplemight be turned off by the word
God because they've been hurt by peoplewho claim to be in the name of God,
in the name of love,and have not represented God well.
But the God I know does not discriminate.
And anyone who reaches out for helpfrom God, God will come and help them.
And so I would say my connection to God,but also mainly
(13:59):
through my relationshipshave I found healing and stability.
And I think the most important thingtoo, is just giving myself the grace
and the time to heal and not rushing it,you know, and allowing myself
to have bad days and whatnot.
But continuing to process and grieveand healing gets stronger.
And so again, it's messy and it's beenforward, backward, up, down, in and out.
(14:22):
But I would say thatI would point to the people in my life,
the rocks that I was able to lean onand God, I'd say are my two biggest.
Joshua, this is, this is fantastic.
And you, you framed it for us.
It's about connections. Andyou talked about grace.
You talked about time.
You talked about God.
You know it is everything.
(14:44):
All of these componentsand more that connect you to
what helps you navigate this.
And thank you for sharing that.
And you know, also to any of your friendsthat are listening,
that are part of your community,I want to say thank you to them.
So I just want to go on the recordto say that on behalf of NAMI.
So, you know, coming of agein the limelight of,
(15:06):
in the limelight is notoriously difficult.
I mean, it's just overwhelmingand maybe even more
in today's age of social media.
How did growing up as an actorimpact you, as you developed
your identity and discoveredwho Joshua would be?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think, you know,what's interesting is a lot of people
(15:29):
will be like, oh, you have had to becomean adult with everyone knowing everything
about you, quote unquote.
But they don't know everything about me.
They think they know things about me.
And so you're not just dealingwith public perception,
but a skewed public perception.
It can be frustrating to want to kind ofcorrect things or to try and prove
(15:49):
that you're not someone they think you areor whatever that is.
And at the same time, there's alsoparts of myself that I'm not proud of that
you know, just feel like amplifiedwhen the idea of like people,
people knowing them. Sorry,this has been nonsensical.
I guess, to answer your question,there's no difference to me between
being in high school and having rumorsspread around me in my theater group.
(16:14):
There's no difference between thatand sort of this on a public skill.
I mean, the numbers are differentand it's a little bit more inescapable,
you know, but it's the same feeling.
And so that's whyI always say to people like,
you know, it is very similar thing.
It's just on a different scale now.
And so in a way,I've been dealing with this my whole life,
(16:35):
and in another way it's a whole differentball game in terms of scale.
Again, forgive my scatterness here.
Oh no, you're not scattered at all.
And this again,this is an incredibly important
conversation and a great conversation.
So do not worry about where you're goingor thinking or listening
to what you're saying.
So this is us having a conversation.
(16:56):
So let's-- and you know whatI've also listened for is peer pressure.
What you talked about is "Hey Dan,the peer pressure isn't much different
from high school.
And being a thespian in high school,being in theater in high school.
And then when you when youwhen you get into Hollywood,
there's still that peerpressure and peer pressure can
(17:16):
really impactyour system." So that's what I heard
you say.
So, may I ask you a question in terms of,you also mentioned
you were very creative growing upand you did talk about the peer
pressurethen and some of the social media,
as you were discovering youand cultivating your identity
(17:40):
because you're so creative,you're also musician.
How did music play in the discoveryof Joshua and who Joshua has grown to be?
Yeah, well, there's, I say in the book,and it might sound cheesy, but I say
"My heart writes the songs.
I just write them down."And a lot of times
when I kind of get out of the way,the song will kind of come through and
(18:02):
I'll say something in a sort of freestylethat I didn't even realize that I meant.
Or there's times where I'm on tourand I'm singing a song
I've sung a hundred timesand I like really finally understand
the meaning of itthat I didn't fully understand
when I even wrote it.
And so it's so interesting how that canwork sometimes with creating music or art
or poetry or whatever issometimes you kind of discover
(18:25):
something about yourselfyou didn't realize in the process
of kind of getting it out, you know,and then you're able to look at it
and unpack it.
And, you know,music is such a cathartic thing, you know?
And it's so coolbecause I also say in the book,
"the artist paves the roadso that the audience can stroll down it."
And what I mean bythat is when I'm creating, I'm doing
the difficult work of having to sitwith these uncomfortable emotions
(18:47):
and really work through themand sort of craft this, this piece
so that when somebody listens to it,they're able to have that cathartic,
easy release.
And so it's such a beautiful thingto go through things that I think
are so personal and unique to meand find out
that there's millions of other peoplewho also resonate with that.
And so that's been such a coolpart of the healing journey.
(19:10):
And that's just the power of musicis that it's transformative.
I always say the artist is an alchemist,and that you get to turn
some deep pain into something beautiful.
And so that has been,you know, a wonderful way
for me to sort ofget things out in a way that, again,
gives me freedom and peace from italso is a way for me to speak truth.
(19:31):
And I love, like, catchy--I say in the book that music is either
a catchy blessing or a catchy curse.
And so I try to make songs--so I've made many catchy curses,
I try to make catchy blessings, thingsthat when you hear them,
they remind youof the good things in life,
or they remind you of truthsto hold on to.
One of my songs All Due Time,you know, is about sort of hanging on in
(19:52):
in those difficult moments,knowing that you'll be all right in due
time, and the abilityfor that to kind of be a mantra
almost for peopleis such a beautiful thing.
But in terms of identity,you know, it's just one of those things
where, you know, beingput in the public eye in a way
where your identity is being questionedor attacked or misconstrued or people
(20:13):
you know, you have a unique identityto each person that's perceiving you.
It forces you to have to take a step backfrom your identity
and not identify,I guess, with their perception of you.
And when you no longer find your worthin their perception of you.
Obviously you don't want to be just like,completely oblivious.
You know, you should be a little bit awareof, like, how you're being perceived,
(20:34):
because I think there's a sense of like,there's a healthy amount of that.
But at a certain point, taking a step backand not identifying with my songs,
not identifying with the public versionthat people see of me
and not allowing their insultsor attacks to cut through me.
You know, the people that care about me,that know me,
if they have a problem with me, I'mgoing to listen to them.
(20:55):
But if you don't care about me,like you said earlier, about people
don't care about how much you knowuntil they know how much you care.
And for me, that's with peoplewho have anything to say about me.
You know, if you don't care about me,then I don't really,
I don't really care what you have to say.
Yeah, you just have to move on.
You just, you know,it's about you feeling comfortable
(21:16):
in your own skinand doing what you do for you.
And you said some really-- "Theartist is the alchemist."
You also said, "the artist paves the roadso the audience can walk down it."
I don't know if I got it right, butyou have so many quips in your book,
I can't wait to get it.
I just, it is fantastic.
And there's some other things, you know,my heart writes the song
and I just get out of the way of it.
(21:38):
I mean, Joshua, this is so cool.
And, you know, I rememberas a, as a young, younger person,
photography was something that I lovedand writing prose.
And I remember writing a prose in collegecalled Depression in Me.
And I still rememberit almost 50 years later.
So, you know, kudos to you in terms of howyou using your creativity
(22:01):
to do what you do.
Now, based on the name of our podcast,I'm sure you can guess that
hope means a lot to us at NAMI and to mepersonally, because if you're not hopeful,
you're hopeless.
So it's all about hope and what we say.
Hope starts with us.
So one more excerpt from Rookiereally caught my attention.
(22:24):
"Hope didn't arrive like a miracle.
It showed up like a decision."What does it mean
to you to choose hope, Joshua?
Yeah, I mean,I there's another chapter that says
"you're responsible for your attitude."And while of course
(22:45):
I don't blame anybody for not having hope,I'm not saying
that, you know, that they've donesomething wrong for not having hope.
I get it.
You know, at a certain point,though, two people can go through
the same experience and one can,you know, choose the side of gloom
and doom, and the other can choosea side of, okay, this is an experience.
And though it's remarkably painfuland unbearable at times,
(23:07):
and I'm not sure howI'm going to get through it, there's even
1% of resilience in your attitude,I think is necessary to get through it.
And unfortunately we seethat the statistics are alarming
and you deal with themall the time with NAMI.
And I'm sure it's a large reasonwhy you've created NAMI, because,
you know, I would say that the number onecause of suicide is hopelessness.
(23:30):
Because ultimately, again,two people can go through
the same experienceand if someone doesn't have hope, then
you know there's not much to hold on to,you know?
But sometimes hope is all you have.
And sometimes it takes deciding.
And I think what's so important forwhy it's so important
for me to be vulnerable and be honest and,and, and share
my story is because maybe somebody can seea version of what they're going through
(23:54):
and see me on the other side of it saying,trust me, keep going.
There's lighton the other side of the tunnel.
And so, you know, when you seepeople have like a nice, easy life,
their words don't have as much weightwhen they say, keep hanging on
and just be optimistic or whatever.
Like those words don't hold much weightbecause you're like, you don't understand.
But when you see somebody who'smaybe been through similar things as you
(24:16):
or had similar experiences or thoughtsor whatever, though no pain is the same.
There is a universality to suffering.
And when you see someone elsewalk through that
and walk through it with victory,then it might give you that hope.
And my friendread the book, an early draft of it,
and I had not even thought of the bookas a beacon of hope, really, at all.
(24:39):
I didn't look at it through that lensuntil he said,
kind of surprisinglyhad said the number one thing
he took away from the book isthat it's just like, saturated with hope.
And I was so taken aback by that.
And it really makes me emotionalevery time I think about it.
Just because if I can give someone hope,then my life's work is done.
You know, like if I can provide somebodywith a glimmer of like,
(25:02):
there is love and peace out there,it's possible,
even if you're not experiencing it now,if that's the only message people get from
my life were to amount to that messagethen it's a life well lived.
Well, you've got you doing so much.
You mentioned,you know, if someone gets the message
out of the book, trust me, keep going,walk through it with victory.
(25:23):
And as your friend said, hey,this is a beacon of hope.
And this book is saturated with hope.
So you are saying so much to so manyright now.
So thank you for this.
And we know we always ask our guestsat the end of the podcast
and we've kind of been talking about it,but we do have this question
we ask all of our guests at theat the end, the world can be
(25:44):
a difficult place, Joshua.
And sometimes it can be hard, hardto hold on to hope.
That's why each episodewe dedicate the last couple of minutes
of our podcast to a special segment calledHold On to Hope.
Would you tell us what helps you,Joshua, hold on to hope?
Man, I think lookingat everything I've been through thus far
(26:09):
and what I've survived, andI think sometimes it's in looking back,
I have a song called Look How You've Come.
It's at the end of my album,The Golden Years, and it's like, you know,
when you feel like giving up,just look back at
how far you've come and keep going.
And so seeing what I've been throughgives me the strength
to go and face another day,even if it gets a little harder
(26:31):
or it gets turbulent,I'm able to remember that I've made it
this farand I survived everything so far
and so I can keep going.
So I'd say that.
And then again,I'd point back to my community.
When I'm spinning out,I'm able to kind of connect with somebody
that loves me, that grounds me and puts meback into a bit of a reality check.
(26:54):
They helped me hold on to hopeand of course, my faith in God.
Outside of any sort of theological,you know, people have their perspectives
on who they think God is and whatnot.
But I look around at me at the beautyand the wonder
in the world and the fact that I'mnot the one keeping my heart beating.
I'm not the one making my lungs breathe.
(27:16):
I'm not the one providing the air.
And so whatever ismust be greater than I am.
And the life is so beautiful, thoughit is dark
and there are a lot of sufferings,and there's a lot of wickedness
and darkness in the world.
If you look around at the beautyand wonder that's also
all around us, and choose to let that bewhat is something to cling on to,
(27:38):
to keep going and again, love.
Love is the hope, right?
I mean, what is survival without love?
You know, that's just existing.
But love is the reason we get up.
Love is the reason we keep going.
Love is the reason we serve.
Love is the reason we do anything.
And so when you when you hold on to love.
(27:59):
I think that's what where hope comesnaturally.
You know,thank you, Joshua and I just want to say,
as we get ready to close this out,I want our listeners to understand
where Joshua started his conversation.
And we know Joshua is an American actor,a singer-songwriter, and a musician.
And he's best known for his rolein Disney Plus's High School Musical:
The Musical (28:19):
The Series.
Why am I repeating that?
We said it at the intro, but I'm saying itnow because that's the cover of Joshua's
book.
Joshua took us into the table of contentsin the chapters.
Joshua said he had heart failure,septic shock.
He felt it was from stress and he was toldby the medical professionals
he had 12 hours to live.
Now, that'snot that public image that you saw.
(28:42):
That is a part of Joshua'sreality and his journey, from that to this
in terms of who this, this young man isand what he is doing and sharing his story
is incredibly powerful and very importantfor all of us to understand.
So I want to say that at the outset,Joshua, thank you.
(29:02):
Thank you very muchfor sharing your story.
Thank youfor being an ambassador for NAMI.
And you're going to help so many,so many others.
And this is just the beginning of yousharing your voice.
Dan, thank you so much.
I just want to also again, honoryou for everything
you're doing with NAMIand for really doing the hard work.
And I know you'rejust closing out the podcast,
but I just wanted to say again,it's truly inspiring
(29:25):
to see people who put their moneywhere their mouth is and who really do
create spaces and are really doingreal change in the world.
We need more people like you, Dan,and what you're doing
is just absolutely blowing me away.
And I'm so inspiredby everything you're doing with NAMI.
And no small thing you do goes unnoticed.
So thank you againfor dedicating your life
(29:45):
to the betterment of othersand giving people hope.
It truly has moved me and I'm so thankful.
Joshua, that means so very much.
And while the title behindmy name says CEO,
I always say that I do this work as aas a dad and as a son and as an uncle.
And that's how I do this work.
And if there's anything that we can do onbehalf of you, Joshua, consider it done.
(30:11):
Proud to know you.
Proud to bring you into the familycalled NAMI.
And, you know, thank you.
Thank you for sharing your story.
And you shared it so very well.
And I hope you feel good about it.
How do you feel about our conversationtoday?
Oh, I feel fantastic.
Thank you for askingsuch brilliant questions.
And I feel like you'vejust been such a safe space to talk about
(30:33):
what really matters in life.
So yeah, it's been awesomeand very grateful.
Thank you so much.
You got to take good care of yourselfand you got to
you got to make sure that you reach outto us.
Reach out to me.
When whenever you're having those moments,you have your network.
But, you know, put me in that network tooif you care to.
It's up to you.
It takes love and it takes all of us. So,you know, that's fantastic.
(30:54):
I'll tell you. I was on Capitol Hill.
We were testifying on something,and one of the, one of the legislators,
he had to be on the floor to actuallyvote.
So he was late coming to the session,and all of his colleagues
had already asked all of themetric questions,
all of the, you know, data questions.
(31:16):
So when he got back, he said, well,I got one last question for you all.
I want to know--andwe were all mental health professionals
there--and he says, "what doeslove have to do with it?" And you made me
think about that, thatthat's what that ledger says.
What does love have to do with it?
And, and we answer to say lovehas everything to do with it.
Well, it has everything to do with it.
Without love,we wouldn't be doing what we're doing.
(31:38):
We wouldn't care.
And how people know that there is a wayforward is if they feel love.
So, you know,thank you for bringing that back up
because it made me think back to that.
And that was last year.
So thank you, Joshua.
It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you.
So this has beenHope Starts With Us a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
If you're looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
(32:01):
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit nami.org/help.
Text NAMI to 62640 orcall 800 950 NAMI.
Or if you're experiencingan immediate suicide,
substance use, or mental health crisis,please call a text 988
(32:24):
to speak with a trained supportspecialist or visit
988lifeline.org.
I'm Dan Gillison, your host.
Thanks for listening and be well.
Love is the reason weget up. Love is the reason we keep going.
Love is the reason we serve.
Love is the reason we do anything.
And so when you when you hold on to love,that's where hope comes naturally.
Welcome to Hope Starts With Us,a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
I'm your host, Dan Gillison, NAMI's CEO.
NAMI started this podcast becausewe believe that hope starts with us.
(00:24):
Hope starts with ustalking about mental health.
Hope starts with us making informationaccessible.
Hope starts with usproviding resources and practical advice.
Hope starts with us sharing our stories.
Hope starts with us breaking the stigma.
If you or a loved one is strugglingwith a mental health condition
(00:45):
and have been looking for hope,we made this podcast for you.
Hope starts with all of us.
Hope is a collective.
We hope that each episodewith each conversation brings
you into that collectiveso you know you are not alone.
Our guest today,Joshua Bassett, an American actor,
(01:07):
singer-songwriter, and musicianbest known for his role in Disney
Plus's (01:12):
The Musical
My Public, Private and Secret Life,published just this week at the start
of Mental Health Awareness Month.
A memoir in verse told through poemsand prayers.
Is a coming-of-age storyfor the anxious generation, told by
(01:34):
someonewhose life is unusually visible, but
whose emotional experience iswidely shared.
Joshua is also a NAMI ambassador,partnering with NAMI, donating $1
for every preorder of his new book,placed by January 15th earlier this year.
Joshua's goal is to give young peoplepermission to share their stories
and start before they're ready.
(01:56):
Welcome, Joshua to Hope starts with usand thank you for becoming a NAMI
ambassador and joining us today,and we're so glad you're joining us.
Thank you so much, Dan.
I mean, thank you for paving the wayand pioneering such an awesome, wonderful
organization that's truly helpingso many people of so many different ages.
I was so inspired,just speaking to some of your,
(02:16):
some of your partnersand what you guys do is just so beautiful.
So thank you guys for paving the way.
I'm just happy to kind of join the,join the parade.
Well, you know what?
It's so important.
Your voice is so critically important.
And as we saidat the top of this introduction,
whose life is unusually visible.
(02:37):
You know, it's--Joshua, we'll get into that.
But it reminds me of the cover of a book.
And what you're going to dois, is really take us into the
to the,to the table of contents and the chapters.
And thank you for taking us insidethat book and that book being you
and what you are so interestedin sharing with us.
So we're glad that you're joining usto help us kick off Mental Health
(02:57):
Awareness Month and NAMI's themethis year, Joshua, is really,
really important.
Stigma grows in silence.
Healing begins in community.
That is all about sharing stories,showing how community supports recovery,
and connecting with each other.
Would you start our conversation todayby telling our listeners
your story, and what led you to becominga mental health advocate, Joshua?
(03:21):
Absolutely.
I mean, you know,I'll try to not take too much of your time
with the story, but yeah,so I was, I was homeschooled, technically,
but I like to say that I was "no schooled"because realistically, I was not really
doing any schoolwork,but I was a very creative child, and I
did a lot of theater growing up as welland was constantly creating,
(03:43):
you know, at any second I was awake,essentially making videos, making songs.
I had the freedomto kind of be very creative,
but I also felt very, felt very alone.
I have five sisters, and I kind of feltlike the black sheep of the family and,
you know, was oftenkind of teased for being homeschooled
or for not knowing things.
And so I always felt very stupid.
(04:04):
And that was a very debilitating thing.
And I felt socially stuntedbecause of that as well.
And so, you know, basically when I was 16,I started to pick up some work in LA,
and I moved out on my owncompletely to live in my car in LA.
And it's not likeI had a falling out with my parents,
but it was just circumstantialthat I ended up making--
(04:26):
It ended up making sense for meto kind of be out there on my own,
and I felt like I was mature for my age.
And so, yeah,I was basically living in my car,
you know, showering at the gym,working in Hollywood.
And I was very fortunateto be very successful very early on
and sort of as my career took off,you know, I was writing songs
for the show High School Musical,and I was "living the dream," as they say.
(04:47):
And just as soon as I startedsort of have that success, I
was also met with quitean ugly sort of online--what's the word?
I guess you could say attack.
But, you know, there was just a lot ofthings being said about me and,
you know, false assumptionsand or just ways in which you know
(05:10):
how it works with the media and how thingscan kind of be blown out of proportion.
And so, essentially, I experiencedheart failure and septic shock
after about seven days ofjust not being able to get out of bed.
And we can go into all the reasonsfor why that is.
And, you know, a large reasonthey believe is because of stress.
(05:31):
But regardless,I ended up having heart failure and
was given 12 hoursto live, essentially, in the hospital.
They saidif I hadn't checked in within 12 hours,
I would have been found in my apartment.
End quote.
And in the hospitalmy mom was able to join me there.
When the doctors left the room, I said,I need help out loud to an empty room,
and when I said I need help,I had full body chills.
(05:53):
The doctors came back and said,we don't know what changed,
but you're getting better.
And I was supposed to have myocarditisfor the rest of my life.
And limited diet, limited exercise.
They did testsand they said, we never seen this,
but it's as though it never happened.
And when the doctors use the word miracle,you know, it's got to be something
because they never want to use the wordmiracle.
You know, there's alwayssome scientific explanation.
But all it took was me saying "I needhelp," which I think is very interesting.
(06:17):
We can get down to that later.
But even though I was physically healed,I was-- it began like the worst
few years of my entire life.
I was strugglingwith all kinds of addictions
and all kinds of mental illness,and there are many days
in which I actually wishthat I hadn't made it out of the hospital
because of the daily hellthat I was experiencing.
(06:37):
And at rock bottom,I had a sort of a spiritual encounter
with Jesus, which might be where I losesome people, but that's okay.
I experienced peace for the first timeand have kind of rebuilt my life
on what really matters, which is to serveand to love and community.
And so I've done my best to be openand honest, because the reality is
a lot of mental illness is due to shame.
(07:00):
Some of it is due to imbalancesin the brain,
some of it is due to rejection.
There's no end, I guess,to the list of things
that might cause mental illness.
And I feel like I've experiencedso many of them.
And I've found that being vulnerableinvites other people to be vulnerable.
And the, you know, sort of the truth is,like yesterday, for example,
(07:24):
I was having a really, really, really hardday and I almost didn't want to
come onto this podcast because I was like,who am I to talk about mental illness
or sort of the recovery when I feel likeI am sometimes not stable.
And I think what's beautiful is being ableto be completely raw
and honest about the journey.
And some days are upand sometimes you swing down
and I think it's more importantto be honest.
(07:45):
Every now and again, you know,I have those struggles
to where I think I'm doing all right.
And then all of a suddenI'm kind of hit with a tidal wave
of emotion or sadness or grief or despair.
And yesterday I was really, really,really at a low point and I was just like,
so ready to just like,you know, not do all my response--
but I was feeling so much agonyinternally and I ended up,
you know, crying for a couple hours.
(08:08):
And I reached out to a friendand we had a wonderful night,
and I feel a lot better today.
All that to say, I'm saying this becausethe mental health journey is never linear
and it's messy and complicated,but the most important thing is to
reach out for help.
Like I said, when you need help.
And so I'm still learning every daythe sort of tools
both from a practical perspective of,you know, understanding the vagus nerve
and our nervous systemand how a lot of times
(08:31):
when our nervous systems are out of whack,it leads to a lot of mental health issues.
So there's a practical side to it.
There's a spiritual side.
There's a community, personal,emotional side to it.
And I'm still learning every dayall the different tools on how to live
a better and more balanced life.
And that's not to sayyou don't experience ups and downs,
but it's learning the toolsto get through that.
(08:52):
And that's what I hopeto bring people with my book.
That'swhat I hope to do with my whole life,
is to help equip people with the toolsand with the hope
and with the resilience to get throughwhatever it is that they're going through.
So that was a whole lot.
Feel free to,you know, jump in on anything there.
But I wasn't sure what to leave inand what to take out.
You know what?
No, don't take anything out.
(09:12):
Bring it all in, Joshua.
Now I want to start. First of all,thank you.
Thank you for sharing your story.
You've already helped so manyjust with what you've shared so far.
Let's call that a sound bite.
You know, about sound bitesand that kind of thing.
You talked about tools.
You talked about hope.
You talk about resilience.
You also said somethingI want to pause on it.
That was, you almost didn't want tocome on this podcast
(09:33):
because of how you were feeling yesterday.
We want to make sure you knowthat you sharing your story--you
mentioned this word vulnerability.
There's so much strengthin your vulnerability
and you and your authenticity.
We often say people don't carehow much you know
until they know how much you care.
So you're demonstrating how much you careby sharing your story
(09:56):
and being vulnerable.
So thank you for your authenticity.
And I want to make sure that you'refeeling good about this conversation,
because that's what this is.
This is a conversation back and forth.
But the point of the conversationis to to help others and to be Joshua.
So thank you.
And thank you for being an ambassadorfor Joshua because,
I mean for NAMI excuse me, Joshua,because this is fantastic.
(10:19):
And maybe that wasn't a faux paswhen I said being an ambassador
for Joshua, because you have to beyour greatest advocate at this point,
and I'm hearing that in your storyand what you're sharing.
So thank you for being an advocatefor yourself, for Joshua,
and also for being an ambassador for us.
So let's get this story goingand thank you.
And there's nothingthat you've said that is
(10:43):
not accurate.
You talked about now where you are,your station of life is to serve, to love.
And it's about community.
And you talked about a number of thingsthat I took some notes on.
So I want to stay insideof what you've discussed,
but I want you to feel comfortablein sharing what you'd like to share.
And so you mentionedwe know that recovery is often not linear.
(11:04):
And your book you wrote, "Getting betterdidn't happen all at once.
It happened in inches."What were some of the key factors
for you in achieving recovery?
I think you've shared some of thatwith us,
but let's back up a second and let'stalk about that for our listeners.
Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting.
You know, I don'tknow if I talked about this in the book
or I talk about this all the time,but there's this thing, Rat Park.
(11:26):
I don't know if you've heard about it,but I'm always talking about Rat Park.
Oftentimes we think, oh,if you just take away the substance,
and this substance can be anything, right?
Social media, sugar, it can be all, thewhole spectrum of things we used to numb.
If you just take that away,then that'll cure the addiction.
But the reality isit was in connection that they found
there was freedom from that in the rats.
And think abouthow much more that is true for humans.
(11:49):
And I think oftentimesthere's a stigma around addiction,
and there's a lot of shaming and blamingpeople who are addicted.
And you look at,maybe you walk by someone on the street
who's unhoused,and you look at them
with a little bit of judgment of like,oh, well, you know, it's your fault
you got to this place.
You know, sometimes people can assume thatand not understanding,
you know, the traumasand the things that person
(12:10):
has been through that I betif you walk their life you would be coping
with heroin as well, and or a cigaretteand or whatever you get your hands on.
So to answer your question, going back,I think the most fundamental thing
I would say that has beencrucial has been connection. And
there are just somewonderful friends
who have held my hand through the fire.
(12:34):
And what I love about what NAMI doesis connects you with community, right?
There's counciland that's super important, right?
Having the right people who are expertsin their field to understand
the human mind and brain and biologyand all that stuff is crucial.
But ultimately, without loveand connection, it's just information.
(12:54):
And, you know, I think we live in a worldthat is so unbelievably divided and dark
and scary and cold, and peopledon't feel safe in their own homes.
They don't feel safe at school,they don't feel safe online.
And so it leads to this isolation.
And that is where mental illnessthrives in isolation.
(13:15):
So I could give you all the toolsthat I found on
how to regulate my nervous systemand how to, you know, work
through an emotionor how to et cetera, etc., etc.
we can get into all those.
They're very valuable.
And I have many, many toolsthat I pull from a different times.
But I would say the common denominator,the one most important thing
has been connection.
And that's my personal connection to God.
(13:36):
And you know, the wordGod can have a stigma,
and a lot of peoplemight be turned off by the word
God because they've been hurt by peoplewho claim to be in the name of God,
in the name of love,and have not represented God well.
But the God I know does not discriminate.
And anyone who reaches out for helpfrom God, God will come and help them.
And so I would say my connection to God,but also mainly
(13:59):
through my relationshipshave I found healing and stability.
And I think the most important thingtoo, is just giving myself the grace
and the time to heal and not rushing it,you know, and allowing myself
to have bad days and whatnot.
But continuing to process and grieveand healing gets stronger.
And so again, it's messy and it's beenforward, backward, up, down, in and out.
(14:22):
But I would say thatI would point to the people in my life,
the rocks that I was able to lean onand God, I'd say are my two biggest.
Joshua, this is, this is fantastic.
And you, you framed it for us.
It's about connections. Andyou talked about grace.
You talked about time.
You talked about God.
You know it is everything.
(14:44):
All of these componentsand more that connect you to
what helps you navigate this.
And thank you for sharing that.
And you know, also to any of your friendsthat are listening,
that are part of your community,I want to say thank you to them.
So I just want to go on the recordto say that on behalf of NAMI.
So, you know, coming of agein the limelight of,
(15:06):
in the limelight is notoriously difficult.
I mean, it's just overwhelmingand maybe even more
in today's age of social media.
How did growing up as an actorimpact you, as you developed
your identity and discoveredwho Joshua would be?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I think, you know,what's interesting is a lot of people
(15:29):
will be like, oh, you have had to becomean adult with everyone knowing everything
about you, quote unquote.
But they don't know everything about me.
They think they know things about me.
And so you're not just dealingwith public perception,
but a skewed public perception.
It can be frustrating to want to kind ofcorrect things or to try and prove
(15:49):
that you're not someone they think you areor whatever that is.
And at the same time, there's alsoparts of myself that I'm not proud of that
you know, just feel like amplifiedwhen the idea of like people,
people knowing them. Sorry,this has been nonsensical.
I guess, to answer your question,there's no difference to me between
being in high school and having rumorsspread around me in my theater group.
(16:14):
There's no difference between thatand sort of this on a public skill.
I mean, the numbers are differentand it's a little bit more inescapable,
you know, but it's the same feeling.
And so that's whyI always say to people like,
you know, it is very similar thing.
It's just on a different scale now.
And so in a way,I've been dealing with this my whole life,
(16:35):
and in another way it's a whole differentball game in terms of scale.
Again, forgive my scatterness here.
Oh no, you're not scattered at all.
And this again,this is an incredibly important
conversation and a great conversation.
So do not worry about where you're goingor thinking or listening
to what you're saying.
So this is us having a conversation.
(16:56):
So let's-- and you know whatI've also listened for is peer pressure.
What you talked about is "Hey Dan,the peer pressure isn't much different
from high school.
And being a thespian in high school,being in theater in high school.
And then when you when youwhen you get into Hollywood,
there's still that peerpressure and peer pressure can
(17:16):
really impactyour system." So that's what I heard
you say.
So, may I ask you a question in terms of,you also mentioned
you were very creative growing upand you did talk about the peer
pressurethen and some of the social media,
as you were discovering youand cultivating your identity
(17:40):
because you're so creative,you're also musician.
How did music play in the discoveryof Joshua and who Joshua has grown to be?
Yeah, well, there's, I say in the book,and it might sound cheesy, but I say
"My heart writes the songs.
I just write them down."And a lot of times
when I kind of get out of the way,the song will kind of come through and
(18:02):
I'll say something in a sort of freestylethat I didn't even realize that I meant.
Or there's times where I'm on tourand I'm singing a song
I've sung a hundred timesand I like really finally understand
the meaning of itthat I didn't fully understand
when I even wrote it.
And so it's so interesting how that canwork sometimes with creating music or art
or poetry or whatever issometimes you kind of discover
(18:25):
something about yourselfyou didn't realize in the process
of kind of getting it out, you know,and then you're able to look at it
and unpack it.
And, you know,music is such a cathartic thing, you know?
And it's so coolbecause I also say in the book,
"the artist paves the roadso that the audience can stroll down it."
And what I mean bythat is when I'm creating, I'm doing
the difficult work of having to sitwith these uncomfortable emotions
(18:47):
and really work through themand sort of craft this, this piece
so that when somebody listens to it,they're able to have that cathartic,
easy release.
And so it's such a beautiful thingto go through things that I think
are so personal and unique to meand find out
that there's millions of other peoplewho also resonate with that.
And so that's been such a coolpart of the healing journey.
(19:10):
And that's just the power of musicis that it's transformative.
I always say the artist is an alchemist,and that you get to turn
some deep pain into something beautiful.
And so that has been,you know, a wonderful way
for me to sort ofget things out in a way that, again,
gives me freedom and peace from italso is a way for me to speak truth.
(19:31):
And I love, like, catchy--I say in the book that music is either
a catchy blessing or a catchy curse.
And so I try to make songs--so I've made many catchy curses,
I try to make catchy blessings, thingsthat when you hear them,
they remind youof the good things in life,
or they remind you of truthsto hold on to.
One of my songs All Due Time,you know, is about sort of hanging on in
(19:52):
in those difficult moments,knowing that you'll be all right in due
time, and the abilityfor that to kind of be a mantra
almost for peopleis such a beautiful thing.
But in terms of identity,you know, it's just one of those things
where, you know, beingput in the public eye in a way
where your identity is being questionedor attacked or misconstrued or people
(20:13):
you know, you have a unique identityto each person that's perceiving you.
It forces you to have to take a step backfrom your identity
and not identify,I guess, with their perception of you.
And when you no longer find your worthin their perception of you.
Obviously you don't want to be just like,completely oblivious.
You know, you should be a little bit awareof, like, how you're being perceived,
(20:34):
because I think there's a sense of like,there's a healthy amount of that.
But at a certain point, taking a step backand not identifying with my songs,
not identifying with the public versionthat people see of me
and not allowing their insultsor attacks to cut through me.
You know, the people that care about me,that know me,
if they have a problem with me, I'mgoing to listen to them.
(20:55):
But if you don't care about me,like you said earlier, about people
don't care about how much you knowuntil they know how much you care.
And for me, that's with peoplewho have anything to say about me.
You know, if you don't care about me,then I don't really,
I don't really care what you have to say.
Yeah, you just have to move on.
You just, you know,it's about you feeling comfortable
(21:16):
in your own skinand doing what you do for you.
And you said some really-- "Theartist is the alchemist."
You also said, "the artist paves the roadso the audience can walk down it."
I don't know if I got it right, butyou have so many quips in your book,
I can't wait to get it.
I just, it is fantastic.
And there's some other things, you know,my heart writes the song
and I just get out of the way of it.
(21:38):
I mean, Joshua, this is so cool.
And, you know, I rememberas a, as a young, younger person,
photography was something that I lovedand writing prose.
And I remember writing a prose in collegecalled Depression in Me.
And I still rememberit almost 50 years later.
So, you know, kudos to you in terms of howyou using your creativity
(22:01):
to do what you do.
Now, based on the name of our podcast,I'm sure you can guess that
hope means a lot to us at NAMI and to mepersonally, because if you're not hopeful,
you're hopeless.
So it's all about hope and what we say.
Hope starts with us.
So one more excerpt from Rookiereally caught my attention.
(22:24):
"Hope didn't arrive like a miracle.
It showed up like a decision."What does it mean
to you to choose hope, Joshua?
Yeah, I mean,I there's another chapter that says
"you're responsible for your attitude."And while of course
(22:45):
I don't blame anybody for not having hope,I'm not saying
that, you know, that they've donesomething wrong for not having hope.
I get it.
You know, at a certain point,though, two people can go through
the same experience and one can,you know, choose the side of gloom
and doom, and the other can choosea side of, okay, this is an experience.
And though it's remarkably painfuland unbearable at times,
(23:07):
and I'm not sure howI'm going to get through it, there's even
1% of resilience in your attitude,I think is necessary to get through it.
And unfortunately we seethat the statistics are alarming
and you deal with themall the time with NAMI.
And I'm sure it's a large reasonwhy you've created NAMI, because,
you know, I would say that the number onecause of suicide is hopelessness.
(23:30):
Because ultimately, again,two people can go through
the same experienceand if someone doesn't have hope, then
you know there's not much to hold on to,you know?
But sometimes hope is all you have.
And sometimes it takes deciding.
And I think what's so important forwhy it's so important
for me to be vulnerable and be honest and,and, and share
my story is because maybe somebody can seea version of what they're going through
(23:54):
and see me on the other side of it saying,trust me, keep going.
There's lighton the other side of the tunnel.
And so, you know, when you seepeople have like a nice, easy life,
their words don't have as much weightwhen they say, keep hanging on
and just be optimistic or whatever.
Like those words don't hold much weightbecause you're like, you don't understand.
But when you see somebody who'smaybe been through similar things as you
(24:16):
or had similar experiences or thoughtsor whatever, though no pain is the same.
There is a universality to suffering.
And when you see someone elsewalk through that
and walk through it with victory,then it might give you that hope.
And my friendread the book, an early draft of it,
and I had not even thought of the bookas a beacon of hope, really, at all.
(24:39):
I didn't look at it through that lensuntil he said,
kind of surprisinglyhad said the number one thing
he took away from the book isthat it's just like, saturated with hope.
And I was so taken aback by that.
And it really makes me emotionalevery time I think about it.
Just because if I can give someone hope,then my life's work is done.
You know, like if I can provide somebodywith a glimmer of like,
(25:02):
there is love and peace out there,it's possible,
even if you're not experiencing it now,if that's the only message people get from
my life were to amount to that messagethen it's a life well lived.
Well, you've got you doing so much.
You mentioned,you know, if someone gets the message
out of the book, trust me, keep going,walk through it with victory.
(25:23):
And as your friend said, hey,this is a beacon of hope.
And this book is saturated with hope.
So you are saying so much to so manyright now.
So thank you for this.
And we know we always ask our guestsat the end of the podcast
and we've kind of been talking about it,but we do have this question
we ask all of our guests at theat the end, the world can be
(25:44):
a difficult place, Joshua.
And sometimes it can be hard, hardto hold on to hope.
That's why each episodewe dedicate the last couple of minutes
of our podcast to a special segment calledHold On to Hope.
Would you tell us what helps you,Joshua, hold on to hope?
Man, I think lookingat everything I've been through thus far
(26:09):
and what I've survived, andI think sometimes it's in looking back,
I have a song called Look How You've Come.
It's at the end of my album,The Golden Years, and it's like, you know,
when you feel like giving up,just look back at
how far you've come and keep going.
And so seeing what I've been throughgives me the strength
to go and face another day,even if it gets a little harder
(26:31):
or it gets turbulent,I'm able to remember that I've made it
this farand I survived everything so far
and so I can keep going.
So I'd say that.
And then again,I'd point back to my community.
When I'm spinning out,I'm able to kind of connect with somebody
that loves me, that grounds me and puts meback into a bit of a reality check.
(26:54):
They helped me hold on to hopeand of course, my faith in God.
Outside of any sort of theological,you know, people have their perspectives
on who they think God is and whatnot.
But I look around at me at the beautyand the wonder
in the world and the fact that I'mnot the one keeping my heart beating.
I'm not the one making my lungs breathe.
(27:16):
I'm not the one providing the air.
And so whatever ismust be greater than I am.
And the life is so beautiful, thoughit is dark
and there are a lot of sufferings,and there's a lot of wickedness
and darkness in the world.
If you look around at the beautyand wonder that's also
all around us, and choose to let that bewhat is something to cling on to,
(27:38):
to keep going and again, love.
Love is the hope, right?
I mean, what is survival without love?
You know, that's just existing.
But love is the reason we get up.
Love is the reason we keep going.
Love is the reason we serve.
Love is the reason we do anything.
And so when you when you hold on to love.
(27:59):
I think that's what where hope comesnaturally.
You know,thank you, Joshua and I just want to say,
as we get ready to close this out,I want our listeners to understand
where Joshua started his conversation.
And we know Joshua is an American actor,a singer-songwriter, and a musician.
And he's best known for his rolein Disney Plus's High School Musical:
The Musical (28:19):
The Series.
Why am I repeating that?
We said it at the intro, but I'm saying itnow because that's the cover of Joshua's
book.
Joshua took us into the table of contentsin the chapters.
Joshua said he had heart failure,septic shock.
He felt it was from stress and he was toldby the medical professionals
he had 12 hours to live.
Now, that'snot that public image that you saw.
(28:42):
That is a part of Joshua'sreality and his journey, from that to this
in terms of who this, this young man isand what he is doing and sharing his story
is incredibly powerful and very importantfor all of us to understand.
So I want to say that at the outset,Joshua, thank you.
(29:02):
Thank you very muchfor sharing your story.
Thank youfor being an ambassador for NAMI.
And you're going to help so many,so many others.
And this is just the beginning of yousharing your voice.
Dan, thank you so much.
I just want to also again, honoryou for everything
you're doing with NAMIand for really doing the hard work.
And I know you'rejust closing out the podcast,
but I just wanted to say again,it's truly inspiring
(29:25):
to see people who put their moneywhere their mouth is and who really do
create spaces and are really doingreal change in the world.
We need more people like you, Dan,and what you're doing
is just absolutely blowing me away.
And I'm so inspiredby everything you're doing with NAMI.
And no small thing you do goes unnoticed.
So thank you againfor dedicating your life
(29:45):
to the betterment of othersand giving people hope.
It truly has moved me and I'm so thankful.
Joshua, that means so very much.
And while the title behindmy name says CEO,
I always say that I do this work as aas a dad and as a son and as an uncle.
And that's how I do this work.
And if there's anything that we can do onbehalf of you, Joshua, consider it done.
(30:11):
Proud to know you.
Proud to bring you into the familycalled NAMI.
And, you know, thank you.
Thank you for sharing your story.
And you shared it so very well.
And I hope you feel good about it.
How do you feel about our conversationtoday?
Oh, I feel fantastic.
Thank you for askingsuch brilliant questions.
And I feel like you'vejust been such a safe space to talk about
(30:33):
what really matters in life.
So yeah, it's been awesomeand very grateful.
Thank you so much.
You got to take good care of yourselfand you got to
you got to make sure that you reach outto us.
Reach out to me.
When whenever you're having those moments,you have your network.
But, you know, put me in that network tooif you care to.
It's up to you.
It takes love and it takes all of us. So,you know, that's fantastic.
(30:54):
I'll tell you. I was on Capitol Hill.
We were testifying on something,and one of the, one of the legislators,
he had to be on the floor to actuallyvote.
So he was late coming to the session,and all of his colleagues
had already asked all of themetric questions,
all of the, you know, data questions.
(31:16):
So when he got back, he said, well,I got one last question for you all.
I want to know--andwe were all mental health professionals
there--and he says, "what doeslove have to do with it?" And you made me
think about that, thatthat's what that ledger says.
What does love have to do with it?
And, and we answer to say lovehas everything to do with it.
Well, it has everything to do with it.
Without love,we wouldn't be doing what we're doing.
(31:38):
We wouldn't care.
And how people know that there is a wayforward is if they feel love.
So, you know,thank you for bringing that back up
because it made me think back to that.
And that was last year.
So thank you, Joshua.
It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you.
So this has beenHope Starts With Us a podcast by NAMI,
the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
If you're looking for mental healthresources, you are not alone.
(32:01):
To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and findlocal resources, visit nami.org/help.
Text NAMI to 62640 orcall 800 950 NAMI.
Or if you're experiencingan immediate suicide,
substance use, or mental health crisis,please call a text 988
(32:24):
to speak with a trained supportspecialist or visit
988lifeline.org.
I'm Dan Gillison, your host.
Thanks for listening and be well.
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