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December 2, 2025 28 mins

Last episode, Kaila spoke with Don Tricker, who said something that caught her attention: the only reason to have process-driven goals is in service of an ambitious outcome.


In fact, focusing on process while excluding outcome may be a cop-out.


Goal-setting is something Kaila and Boma educational designer Hannah Hudson have talked about for years, but Kaila’s conversation with Don sparked a new exploration of how goals can be defined and what “winning” truly looks like.


In this episode, Kaila and Hannah unpack:


  • the difference between process- and outcome-driven goals, 
  • how goals link to ambition and motivation,
  • the connection between goals, self identity and worthiness, and
  • why setting ambitious goals is scary.


Hunger & Heart is brought to you by the Crusaders Leadership Programme™. Whether you're coaching under-5s or a professional team, we all want the same thing: to build cultures of trust, get the best out of our people, and grow players into leaders.


The Crusaders Leadership Programme™ lets you get up close and personal with some of the greatest rugby legends of all time — people like Sir Wayne Smith, Sam Whitelock, and Kieran Read. You’ll get their secrets for building high-trust, high-performing teams, on the rugby pitch or in the boardroom.


Hunger & Heart listeners get 10% off the full price of the program. Use the code HUNGER at checkout. Find out more: crusadersleadership.com



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