#36 - Eng. Felix Kariuki - Impact Masters Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's a blessed day.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you so much.
This is yours truly, michaelKimathi and, if you want, mk,
taking tech, ecosystemconversations, the impact

(00:22):
masters, the legends themselvesand the sons of Africa.
This is Africa's talkingpodcast, in collaboration with
impact masters podcasts, onceagain bringing you the movers
and shakers in check, and todaywe are blessed to have one and

(00:44):
only, not only the son of Africa, but a guy who has done it all
and is making those moves tomake sure that Africa is where
it's supposed to be.
I keep telling you, africa isblessed Skills, talents,

(01:05):
intellectual and anything elsethat defines humanity.
So today we have Felix Karioki.
He's a guy who has a bachelor'sdegree in electronics
engineering technology, adiploma in management of
information systems,certificates in google project

(01:27):
management, google analytics,google ux design, leadership and
management, strategicinnovation, six sigma black belt
, qfd whatever that means.
Professional member ofengineering board of kenya.
15 years of experience inmanagement and technical
leadership, leading distributedcross-function teams in

(01:48):
different time zones.
Experience working withgovernments, academia, civil
society, private sector inAfrica, asia, the USA, canada
and Europe.
Co-creativity on designing andlaunching data toolkits and
platform with Kenya as the pilot, confirmed with the
constitution of Kenya and alllaws relevant to devolution

(02:12):
Processes.
A data understanding of countydevelopment objective and vision
2030.
A data-driven mindset with theability to run experiments,
measure and adapt.
Proven track record of leadingsuccessful transformation
projects.
Experience using human-centereddesign principles to develop
interventions in support ofprogram objectives.

(02:34):
Strategic thinker andresult-oriented Whoa, whoa, and
the list goes on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bachelor in ElectronicsEngineering Technology from the
World College CIE, virginiaBeach, virginia, in 2010.

(02:55):
And actually is awell-accomplished person we have
here.
How are you, mr Felix?
I'm good, it's not good to callyou just Felix, but engineer
Felix Kariyoki.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yes, sir, it's a joy to be here.
Thank you for the opportunity.
It was interesting to listen towhat you're saying concerning
my resume.
Sometimes you don't think aboutit, because the reason as to
why we do what we do, especiallyhaving the mindset of wanting
to develop people, is you studyto make a difference, get
knowledge, do something about it.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
What you do with the knowledge is the most important
thing.
Exactly Amazing stuff.
Yes.
And, by the way, here I will tryto tell this because and I'll
give you the context so when youlook at Africa, the story is
always told by the third partyor fourth party and most of the
time is when it's altered,truncated, to fit the bill of
the teller.
But we have chosen, as ImpactMasters and Africa's Talking

(03:52):
Podcast, to tell the way it is.
And one of the most importantthing is to know who is Felix,
not from the portfolio, theresume, but where did Felix
start?
Where was he born?
How was his growing up?
How did he go to the US and allthese other places?
And we will take itchronologically and we'll get to
the main, main issue here.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Okay, Just a brief on me.
Born in Nairobi, raised inNairobi, I was born in a
community that was close-knit.
This was a Buruburu community,and this is where.
I met Mr Teddy.
Waria.
We I was born in a communitythat was close-knit.
This was a Buruburu community,and this is where I met Mr Teddy
Waria.
We went to the same school withhim, who's pretty much
instrumental with Africa'sTalking?
That is Lenana.
No, this was primary school,okay.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yes, which one?

Speaker 3 (04:36):
was that this is Buruburu primary school.
This is in Eastlands.
This is when Buruburu used tobe called Buruburu.
Now it's kind of calledsomething else.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
But I love it.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
I love the place.
We were so close-knit that'sthe objective of it.
We knew each other pretty welland in that community it was
more like you care for yourbrother.
You lift each other up, and itwas in that community that I was
able to identify with the needsof the community.
I used to go to a church.
It used to be called NairobiCalvary Temple, gck, and so what

(05:09):
I used to do is after school,when you're closing school, I
used to gather people fromdifferent churches in that
community and then we do what wecall environmental cleanup.
This was way before we startedseeing Nairobi cleanup days and
all that.
It was more like what myparents had instilled in me
Always care about the nextperson next to you, always care
about your environment.
The mindset they put inside ofme is whatever knowledge you

(05:33):
have, no matter how small it is,it has value somewhere else.
I may not have looked myself tohave a political position I was
still a kid growing up but Iknew I can live in a better
environment.
I knew some things were notright.
My dad used to work for NairobiCity Council back then.
And so these are some of thethings the tenets he kind of

(05:53):
instilled inside of me that youknow what.
The person next to you mattersa lot and the person next to you
is your best safe mode,anything happens.
That's the person you run to Bethe change you seek.
That's the point.
So when I saw environment waskind of getting not too good of
what it was, so I used to gatherkids during the holiday.
I'd go to barber shops.
Tell my friends, you know thisis what I'm planning on a
certain day.
I go to now the chief office.

(06:16):
I go to the Nairobi CityCouncil.
I tell them on a certain day weneed to do a cleanup.
Can you guys give us the tools?
At what age?
This was still in primary, Ithink class seven there, class
seven, class eight.
So I can say the church didplay a role in that.
There's no question about it interms of faith.
Because, you know, the churchhas this thing of telling you to
be responsible.
So that also goes down to myparents, still the same, because

(06:39):
I used to get a beating if Itried to skip church.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, so I guess it was a good thing.
From who?
The mom or the dad?

Speaker 3 (06:44):
That was my mom.
My dad was more like you knowhe'd laugh about it but my mom
was more the.
She was the disciplinary person.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
So you had to toe the line.
I see yes, so she says Sunday'schurch.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
just know you're going, Whether you like it or
not going, and it's somethingthat is very interesting because
if you look at the way peopleare brought up right now, is
that disciplining children isdiscouraged at all costs.
What do you think that is doingto our future generation?
It's messing it up.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
To be honest with you , the reason I say it's messing
it up.
Even the good book says thatyou spare the road, you spoil
the child.
There's no doubt about it.
And it says that a road drivesaway foolishness from a child.
What I mean by this is no childis born knowing anything,
literally.
So whatever you define for themis what becomes the normal to
them.
And if you fail to define tothem as you know it, good or

(07:38):
better, somebody else willdefine it for them.
So, which means if you don'tgive them the discipline that is
required because there's areason as to why a family is in
existence- yeah.
A family is a core knowledgebase of everything.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
The parents are key to that.
That's the first school.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
That's the first school.
That's everything In fact.
If you look at kids who excelin life, they always from family
setup what they learned, whatinspired them and what they
wanted of that family.
That's always the drive intheir life.
Maybe daddy was never available, maybe mommy was never
available.
So when they grow up they wantto be there for their kids
because they know how bad it wasnot to have somebody to hold

(08:15):
your hand.
They know the mistakes theymade.
They could have not made them.
So the family is critical interms of putting discipline in a
child.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
There's no doubt about it, for sure.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
So you grew up and you get to class eight, right?
Yes.
So did you perform well?
How was that?

Speaker 3 (08:32):
I had people like Ted Urea to make sure I perform
well.
They always kept tabs on meliterally.
I also had my parents, becausemy mom used to ask me a question
how many people repeated inyour class?
I'd say maybe three.
Four came down to our classrepeating and all Do you know.
These are the guys who aregoing to knock you out.
So I was always pushed to benumber one, so that was my
motivation.
So I did hold that position forquite a while.

(08:55):
If I did lose that position I'dfall number two and that's in
the whole stream.
Were you guys in the same class?
Teddy Uria, for a while he wasin a different class.
But you know, when theycategorize you they give you a
stream According to the totalnumber of students in that
entire stream what position youare so always held.
As far as number one wasconcerned, that was my seat that
was mine, so I knew if I sleepa little people like Ted Uria

(09:18):
would give me a good lashingLike boss.
You know we also exist right.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Let me ask you a controversial question Do you
think life is competitive orcollaborative?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Now, that's the challenge, now.
The reason I say it's achallenge is it ought to be
collaborative, not competitive.
The only person you shouldcompete with is yourself.
The reason I say so.
I can give another good example.
There's a guy called the formerlate Miles Mundro.
He did well in school.
This was back in Bahamas.
You know, that's where he kindof grew up.
So he'd come back home withhigh scores.

(09:53):
High scores mean that he'sleading in his class, and so mom
would be like his mom.
That is what was the percentageyou got.
It'd be like 67.
And it'd be like um, is thatwhat makes you happy, that you
had 67?
How come you didn't have 100?
Yeah, so the point of the storybeing told was you should
always compete against yourselfwhich means if 67 is not your

(10:14):
best, you still have notachieved.
If 100 is your best, then youhave achieved.
So the measurement should notbe the, the person next to you
uh, the measurement should beyou yourself and the
competitiveness of our system,whereby you're trying to compete
with somebody else or defeatsomebody else should not be the
motivation.
The motivation should be whatcan you learn from the person

(10:36):
next to you?
Absolutely, because if itwasn't for people like Teddy
O'Reilly, I wouldn't have lovedgeography, because he always
talked about geography, so I wasintrigued on this guy.
His English was also extremely.
In fact, all my compositionswere based on what he knew.
So before writing mycompositions I'd make sure I
have some minutes with him, kindof get a few vocabularies from

(10:57):
him, because he was a reader.
Okay, he was a reader and Iwasn't so much of a reader like
Norbert still is right, yeah.
So he made my English better tobe honest.
He kind of told me you knowthere's more to English than
what you're learning in school.
And the thing about him is healways functioned outside the
box.
He didn't stick to thecurriculum.
So he would ask teachersquestions and teachers would be

(11:19):
like that's not in thecurriculum.
Because what I saw in him wasknowledge.
What I saw in him was a deepunderstanding, a deep
appreciation to life than just A, b, c, d or getting these
points or that.
There's a deeper richness, as inwhatever you learn in school
has, and that's what made mestart kind of becoming active in
the society to see beyond themeasurements of a school
curriculum, to see beyond that.

(11:41):
And I remember I used to havetalks like this was still in
primary school We'd have talkson American politics.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
We were kids in primary school.
We were talking if Bill Clinton, who was the president?
Then Bill Clinton, right,exactly.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
That was the time.
Yeah, we'd ask kind of debateduring and this is break time,
when guys are playing soccer sohe'd be like I mean this was
good.
So we kind of toast up on that.
Bill Clinton, he should win, heshould not win.
This is the reason behind it.
American is like this, this.
So we knew much more than justour immediate environment and

(12:16):
that was important, becausethat's what makes you who you
are as a person when you have aperspective that's not just
local but it's global, and thatway, even the solutions that
you're creating, you are as aperson when you have a
perspective that's not justlocal but it's global, and that
way even the solutions thatyou're creating, you'll find a
way to be able to scale them tobetter other communities, not
just your own community, I see,and that's important and that's
where collaboration is kind ofcomes out.
You know, in terms of emphasis,that these talks kind of made

(12:39):
you, and that's important.
I lived in the US for quite awhile and there was a challenge
in that community.
The challenge was I'd meetpeople who didn't know where
Africa is, if Africa is acountry or it's a continent.
Most of the people I met atthat time would think Mandela
was the president of Africa,which was a sad story.
They didn't know all thesesmall communities, all these
small countries.
They saw us as just one country, engineer.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
It's a sad story.
We're jumping the gun, gotcha.
Let's take one step at a time.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yes, all right Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
So you finish your primary school, you do well.
Of course, you are a topstudent, right.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yes, at that time.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
So which school do you join?
I went to Mangu High School.
Mangu, yes, and the chief goesto Lenana.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Did that affect your grammar, your vocabulary?
All these lessons.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
I was kind of hoping we would go to the same school
Because he had been mymeasurements in terms of pushing
me.
You know what I mean.
But he went to Lenana.
So going to Mangmu High Schoolwas now meet new friends.
Now what happened in this caseis I met somebody else who I
knew while I was still inprimary school, and him he was
in Harambe.
My competitiveness in primaryschool I used to kind of in fact

(13:49):
I learned also this from TeddyUria, just to be honest.
He kind of opened my mind toknow other schools other than
just Buruburu primary school.
So we had Nairobi River.
He knew people in Nairobi River.
I didn't know them.
So I was like, okay, I need toget to know these people too.
So I'd know all the topperformers in all the schools
surrounding our school and oneof the schools was Harambe
Primary School and in Harambe.

(14:10):
Guess who was the top studentin Harambe all this time?
I have no idea Captain RonaldKarori.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
The chief for the sport person.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yes, he was one who was leading at that time in
Harambee Primary School.
I kind of had known of himthrough associations, relatives,
because he lived in Buruburu,but in terms of me knowing him
as a student now that's when Istarted discovering ah, so
you're in Harambee PrimarySchool.
So his performance was kind ofa little bit better than mine.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
By a few points.
You sound too competitive by afew points.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Okay, I see.
So when I landed in Mangu HighSchool I was like, ah, I'm in
also familiar territory, yeahyeah, I can see, people I know,
I see, and so now this became,now I have some competition,
somebody to kind of push meahead.
Eh, yes, yes, because you see,the thing is competition.
Healthy competition is when yousee others are stretching
themselves to the best ofthemselves, and that's what

(15:04):
makes you want to stretchyourself to the best of yourself
.
Yes, yes, and in fact in ManguHigh School that's where this
was also kind of emphasized oncollaborative work, teamwork In
terms of, well, you're kind ofgood in this, kind of good in
this.
Why don't we spend some timetogether?
You kind of tell me what you,you know, kind of tell me what
you, you know, kind of give methe strengths, because this is
my weak points too.
So I learned a lot ofcollaboration also in that

(15:26):
school, a lot of it.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
So were you monolized in Mungu.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
No, actually I think they were scared of me.
To be honest, were you?
That scary, I was tall.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
I don't think I've ever.
My height was still the same,which was 6'1", so I was kind of
still tall In.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Oh, I see, so I was kind of still tall.
In fact.
I became a prefect when I wasstill in form two which was from
one going to form two.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
So you were tall and skinny or tall and buffed up.
No, tall and skinny.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Okay, and I think it's the attitude of where you
come from.
They kind of shook people up alittle bit.
I came from Buruburu and so ifyou're coming from Buruburu and
the thing, it was a thing then,so which means?
Uh, you kind of don't uh playaround with them.
You kind of don't um mess uparound with them.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's like d right now .

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Right, yeah, yeah, coach, that's it, that's it
there's that, um, you know, yeah, perspective of buruburu.
So bringing from buruburu, Ifound from twos, from buruburu
from threes.
So there was that thing ofpeople now kind of ah, you're
from my hometown.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
You're from my place and also you used to mobilize
some of those guys you mobilize.
That's my point.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
So all these things were working back for my good.
You see what I mean, becausewhen I stepped there, I wasn't
in fact day one.
I felt like I knew the place.
I was that comfortable.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it sounds like your network actually played a
role for you on that particularpoint.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
It's like it's prepared the ground for me.
Yeah, because all the places Iused to go to mobilize were the
same places and the same peoplethat I found in high school.
So I'd find people in form two,people in form three, In fact
even some few people in formfour who knew me even before I
stepped there.
So there was that kind ofprotection mechanism.
We are from the sameneighborhood.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
So leave this kid alone.
This is my brother, this is mybuddy right here.
So, yeah, it was.
Uh, it was that good.
So are you?
Were you this kind of guy wholoved sciences from the word god
?
How was that high schoolexperience that you could become
an engineer?
You are right now.
What?
What shaped that?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
um, what shaped it?
Um, as I said, when he came toprimary school, teddy Uriah was
good in sciences.
He had a book called Abbot.
Abbot was a physics book, soI'd never seen such a book and
it was kind of thick.
And this guy we're in primaryschool and he's talking about
Abbot, a book being used in highschool.
So I was like the thing aboutTeddy Uriah what kind of helped
him a lot is he had big brothersahead of him.

(17:42):
So I take that advantage to myadvantage too, in such a way
that whatever he knew hisbrothers knew.
I also wanted to know.
Now, the thing about me is I'malways knowledge hungry.
I'm always hungry to know, tounderstand and to kind of put
pieces together.
So going to high school wasmore like just an emphasis of
what was set as a foundationback in primary school.

(18:03):
So in high school it was atoss-up.
Biology, you know, everything'sbeen broken down.
Physics has been broken down,chemistry has been broken down,
biology has been broken down.
So it was now kind ofemphasizing on each and every
single discipline.
So this was kind of tricky to mebecause, you know, in primary
school everything is kind of putin the same box.

(18:25):
But now.
This time everything has beenput in small, small pieces, so
now I could understand what wasset as a base for me back in
primary school.
Things like I bought physicsbooks.
Now they started making senseto me.
In high school, now I did findsome subjects of interest, and
some of them were like Frenchspeaking, and so I started
delving so much into frenchbecause this was new to me.
As I said initially, I preferlearning something new, and so

(18:50):
it's gone yeah, it was a joy.
It was a joy back then.
Um, so on the sciences, uhphysics, became of an interest
because of the base that hadbeen set.
Uh, chemistry was new to me, uh, which means I had to learn the
loops.
And then there's also biology.
Aspect of biology was kind ofalso new to me and I knew if I
was to focus on biology I'd haveto think medicine, and if I was

(19:11):
to focus on chemistry I wasthinking of more like, you know,
seated somewhere in a lab, youknow, doing all this for the
rest of my life.
So physics became moreappealing to me.
It seems to be more practical,something I can put my hands on
and do something about somethingelse, to make something better
so yeah so, although eventuallyI did do all the sciences for my
finals, uh, that is, I didphysics, I did chemistry and I

(19:33):
did biology and I did passingall of them, so, um it was, um,
it was, uh, it was more like adiscovery session back in high
school.
What are your strong points?
Uh, what do you want to do?
We did have studies.
It's mangu high school.
What are your strong points?
What do you want to do?
We did have studies.
It's Mangu High School.
Everybody knows Mangu HighSchool is all about aviation.
It's all about flying planes, soI did delve the first two years
into aviation technology.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Wait a minute.
You said Mangu is about flyingplanes, the thought people have
about it.
Are there so many pilots fromMangu, or what does that mean?
What happens is.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Mangu was the first high school for students to be
taught aviation technology.
I see, and the history of itgoes back to those that need to
be able to teach students.
Remember Mangu, the history ofit it was a Catholic school.
It's still a Catholic school,oh, okay.
It was started by fathers, andso what happened is they had
this desire to be able to teachhandy skills what you call TVET

(20:30):
now to people who are still inhigh school.
And so they started teaching onradio.
So radios started being andthis was the only school, the
only high school doing that backthen.
So there was one father whodecided to take it a notch
higher, so they started teachingaviation.
Yeah from that level, from thatlevel in high school.
So aviation became a subjectand it became the first high

(20:50):
school to teach aviation, prettymuch in Africa.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yeah, that's the history of it.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Okay, I see Actually that's interesting, because do
they still do so?
Yes, they still do so.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
They still do so and, in fact, most of the people who
fly the jets from Kenya Airways.
That is the national pride allthe way to the military.
We find a majority of them,especially in the senior
positions, are from Mango.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
High School.
That's new knowledge actuallyI'm getting from you.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And does it mean that they collaborate with Wilson
Airport, jkia and all that?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yes, they do.
That's where students do mostof their practicals, so we'd go
to Wilson for hands-on.
Even though we had a plane westill have a plane in Mangu High
School On the ground.
On the ground.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Come on.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I've never seen it.
That's my route to my ruralareas.
Where is it hidden?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
It's behind, it's next to the workshops.
Next time you're going home,let's go together, because I'm
part of that committee that isin charge of that.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Nice.
Yes, I still work with theboard.
Do they have a hangar orairstrip?
How does it work?

Speaker 3 (21:55):
It is a hangar.
It's open now and they'rebuilding to have an airstrip
soon.
It's in the works, it's in theprogress.
This was supposed to have beenachieved Before the current
government.
An airstrip soon.
It's in the works, it's in theprogress.
This was supposed to have beenachieved before the current
government.
Plans are already in place.
Everything.
In fact, we have a strippeddown plane that's coming, a new
one which will soon be unveiled.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I feel like I should join Mango as much as beyond the
age of joining high school.
That's so cool.
I've never known about this,and actually that's why these
conversations are very important, because I remember, when we
were choosing the schools, thatyou should go once you pass the
exam.
Mung was one of them, and itwas not interesting to me.
Because, all the facts were notpresented to me the most

(22:40):
popular ones and familiar oneswas Alliance Lenana.
Yes, I think there was MoikaBrack there.
There was Kamusinga Friends,you know this.
Maseno wasn't anywhere near.
I think Maseno came upafterwards.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
After it came after yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
So Alliance has always been there, like everyone
knows.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Alliance you know what?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
you get there is top notch, exactly, and it's good
that you have brought this up.
I know mango is also one of thebest uh, you know schools to to
join yes but it's good also ourlisteners know about this fact
about aviation, yes and uh.
In case maybe interested is thebest place to go.
There are mentors like you andothers who like karaoke.
You said karaoke right right,so they can actually ride on

(23:26):
that from the high school level.
Exactly so you joined theaviation, or what do you do?
You just do physics.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
What happened is you're given, you choose the
practicals.
We call it technical skills.
There was electrical, there wasmetal work.
I remember there was woodwork.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Metal work is where you just do the welding stuff
work.
I remember there was woodworkMetal work is where you just do
the welding stuff.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yes, I remember.
And then there was aviationtechnology.
So from Form 1, I choseaviation technology, and then
for the first two years you kindof decide whether you want to
do your final examinationsBecause, remember, these are
examinable in the finalexamination at Form 4.
And so, once you get a goodsense of where your strength is,
if this is still something inline with what you'd like to do

(24:10):
after, you kind of take it untilForm 4.
As an elective.
As an elective, yeah.
So what happened is I didaviation first year, second year
and then I kind of startedthinking do I really want to do
aviation after high?
School.
Reason as to why I limitedmyself was because I was
thinking of the expenses thatcome after, because aviation, if

(24:31):
you take it at the collegelevel, it's not cheap.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
And I do want to put this, and that's the time you
guys used to go to South Africa.
I don't know if they still gothere, but I remember guys who
joined campus actuallyespecially J-Quart, if.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
I'm not wrong.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
I don't know if this process is there with the KQ.
They could select a few guyswho could join them to be pilots
, take it down to South Africa.
I don't know if it's fully paidor partially paid, whichever it
is, which means it was a veryexpensive affair.
If this was something that Ithink the KQ took up, I hope

(25:05):
those programs are there.
I hope so.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
They're still there and they're working.
That's how people like Ronaldwere able to go back to it
eventually.
Ronald, as he had saidpreviously, is that he wanted to
do when he was thinking aboutdoing now the engineering aspect
of it, because you're taughteverything in high school.

(25:29):
High school, you learn from thebolts to the nuts of the plane.
Literally every single unit ofa plane.
You know it like the back ofyour hands.
You know all the kind of screws,all the kind of bolts.
You know everything abouttension, every single aspect of
engineering of a plane.
You know it in high school.
So, this pushes you to doengineering at the college level

(25:49):
, because we still don't teachthat aspect of aeronautical
engineering at the universitylevel so, which means you
transfer to an engineeringdegree.
And in his case you know he'stalked about it a number of
times that when he saw whatengineering was doing, that
wasn't the flying of the planeshe thought about.
So he kind of fell back topiloting, because in high school

(26:11):
you're taught the whole program.
Now flying a plane comes maybethe third or fourth year.
That's now you start learningaerodynamics and all that good
stuff, how to keep the plane onthe air and all that.
And that's when you start goingfor your practicals at Wilson.
That's when now you startgetting into a cockpit, the
actual one, that you can easilycrash a plane if you don't do

(26:35):
things right, you don't havethose simulations.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
We didn't have simulations back then.
Now they're in existenceBecause of software technology.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Exactly so.
Technology has helped a lot.
Now you don't actually need Imean, you're just crashing the
simulation.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I can only imagine if you are not so good and then
things happen on there.
So you have to experience itpractically Exactly, and do you
think CBC actually is playing arole in ensuring that people are
getting more tangible practicalskills and also discovering
what someone is good at and whatthey're not good at?

Speaker 3 (27:11):
CBC.
It's commendable.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
It's commendable.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
The reason I say it's commendable remember I spent
some time in the US, in thestate called Arkansas, in a city
called Leroy, and as part ofthe Leroy Regional Chamber they
have a department calledWorkforce Development Department
.
And as part of the LirocRegional Chamber they have a
department called WorkforceDevelopment Department.
I was part of a committee inthis department that was
involved in revamping thecurriculum for the high school
students.
What this meant is there was aneed to focus on what kind of

(27:37):
skills high schoolers aregetting In such a way, once
they're done with high school,they can either jump into the
job market or it can be apreparation to further that
knowledge into the college level.
And so what we did and rememberthis we're talking about just
maybe three or four years agothis happened, I see and so in.
In cognizant of these is thatthey are a fast world country I

(27:58):
see, and they saw there was aneed to be able to kind of push
students back to practicalskills which can be of value
after high school in terms ofjob-wise to meet the workforce
need in that society.
Because, fourth,industrialization is happening
fast and you're finding that thecurriculum is kind of being
left behind in terms of and whatis fourth, industrialization.

(28:21):
We're talking of the technologyaspect of it.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
We're talking of artificial intelligence.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
We're talking about programming, coding.
We're talking of the technologyaspect of it.
We're talking of artificialintelligence.
We're talking about programming, coding.
We're talking about machinelearning.
We're talking about all theseaspects that are right now
taking charge in terms ofautomation, because automation
is key towards the future we'relooking at, and for that to be
in existence, then all theseskills need to be taught at an

(28:46):
earlier age.
That's why you find that, forexample, in China, you see, kids
have still started learningBefore now.
It became more like a commonthing.
In other countries, kids werelearning this from the time they
were still in nursery,kindergarten.
They're being taught this.
Now there's a need for thatpretty much committee to be able
to revamp the high school, etcetera, because they noticed

(29:08):
that, yes, little Rock isgrowing, but we are lacking the
skills within our own city fromour own students to meet the
market need, and so we arehaving to kind of attract people
from outside to be able tooffer the skills here, the
immigrants.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
And that's where now you see that, uh, people
basically who are in those skillsets are usually not from that
country.
Uh and um, so there's thatissue of now.
We need to skill the peoplelocally in such a way they're
not left behind yeah aliroc is agrowing city.
It's not as um, it's not as uhas how can you see?
it's not as developed ascalifornia atlanta in fact I

(29:43):
remember very well when I wentto the us, um, anybody who came
from kenya, from developed asCalifornia, atlanta, in fact I
remember very well, when I wentto the US, anybody who came from
Kenya or from Africa.
Wait a minute engineer.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yes, so once you finished your high school,
that's when you went to US, orhow did this work?

Speaker 3 (29:58):
What happened is I went first to Strathmore after
high school.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Between Strathmore for diploma or degree Diploma.
At that time we had for adiploma or degree.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
It was diploma, Okay, it was at that time we had
something called IDPM.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
I see.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
And this was what now became MIS Management of
Information Systems and so therewas a program that was teaching
kind of you know, introducingus into that aspect of
technology, and that's what IDPMwas all about.
This is the time when the timeduring the gap year or, yes,
just during that one gap yearbefore you're called to to
college?
Yeah, because eventually I didget called to more university,

(30:30):
but by then I had received aletter and a scholarship to go
to the university of arkansas atthat time yeah, so so, uh, I
spent some time, and that'swhere now I I made my first
computer this is what you callwindows.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
let me ask you, because a lot, lot of people
actually fall into this dilemmawhen they get the scholarship to
join maybe Harvard, mit and allthese other places and they
have been invited in the localuniversities.
So how was that decision foryou?
Did your experience influencethat?

(31:01):
Were there mentors who told youyou know what More universities
are good universities, but youknow if you're in the US, there
are more opportunities.
How was that decision makingfor you?

Speaker 3 (31:10):
For me it was easy.
The reason I say it was easyit's because, at that time that
period of time.
Looking back, there was thistendency of everybody is getting
out of the country.
I see Everybody country I seeeverybody.
The reason I say almosteverybody, it's I can give a
good story about this one.
Uh, there's a friend, somebodyjoined me we went to high school

(31:31):
together.
Uh, having gone to high schooltogether, um, I went to the us
he comes, he follows.
He asked me can you see whichschools I can also join?
so he comes he joins me, yeahand then, uh, when he joins me,
there happens to be somebodyelse from his neighbor who,
still in Buruburu, who had aget-together More like his
birthday.
So he tells me do you rememberthis guy back in Buruburu?

(31:53):
Well, he's having a birthday.
So why don't we?
Because he knows I'm here andhe wanted me to go, and he
doesn't know you're here, but wecan go.
So we go to his place.
This was in houston, so goingto houston.
As soon as I opened the door,everybody in that room, I knew
literally, and there were morethan 30 people from kenya in

(32:13):
that room.
This is already in us already inus, so what I'm trying to tell
to you what I'm trying to say.
There's this period wherebyeverybody after high school
wanted to leave the country.
Yeah, and the reason this washappening, it's because there
was a lot of strikes takingplace in our local university.
And so there was this aspect ofif I joined the university, how
long will I take before I finish.

(32:34):
There was that aspect of will Itruly learn anything?
There's a period there was toomany strikes in our local
universities.
So when this opportunitypresented itself to me, it was
it's no thinker, no brainer.
Best thing is to go, becausewhy am I sticking around here?
And by the way.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
It's very sad even now that most of our
universities are broke.
Yes, you're aware of that right.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Which is not good because, you know, education
forms the economic aspect, thepolitical aspect, yes, even the
growth in terms of humanknowledge capacity.
And when I see these every day,I'm so discouraged because of
one thing is that we are hurtingwhere we can't recover, because
if our higher learning,education, are not working, that

(33:19):
means our capacity to buildanything else becomes dependent
on other nations, and this meanswe hold someone something, and
I don't think anyone, either ona personal capacity or country
capacity, want to be alwaysholding someone something.
I'm not saying that you shouldnot hold someone, but it should
be more of a symbiotic kind ofrelationship as opposed to where

(33:44):
it's one-sided kind of you know, you owe me always, you owe me,
yes, and you put yourself in aposition where you can't make
certain strategic decisions andwith your knowledge, maybe even
being out there, and you know,even making that decision to go
abroad for the further studies,for sure.
what do you think is going onhere, that universities oh, you

(34:05):
hear more universities broke?

Speaker 3 (34:07):
They're almost closing.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Now I hear universities operating at
deficit for a long time.
Yes, there's KU, which is noweven.
It doesn't have enough money.
Yes, yes, their land is beinggiven out.
There are all these issuesgoing on with our higher
learning education.
Yes, then there's a privatesector that has cropped into
higher learning education, whichbrings up standard kind of

(34:30):
education.
So there is all these debates.
I'm not saying that privatepeople should not invest in
higher learning education.
All I'm saying is that weshould operate at a certain
standard so that, regardless ofwhich you decide to join you,
are okay Coming back to thatquestion.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
You are okay.
Yes, yeah, Coming back to thatquestion.
It's interesting the reason Isay it's interesting.
I want you to look at everysingle major city in the US.
Every single major city.
They're all built around auniversity.
Every single major city,they're built around a
university.

(35:05):
Implication of this is theuniversities control the
government governance aspectsocial, environmental, every
economic sector, everythingpertaining to the existence of
that town, is based on auniversity.
Implication is they guide thepolicies.
Implication is they guide thepolicies.

(35:26):
Implication is they draw theframeworks of engagement in that
society.
When I joined the University ofArkansas at Leroy, I started
working in a department calledInstitute of Government.
They did all the data collectionaspect pertaining to every form
of governance in that state,for the purpose of knowing what

(35:48):
the sense is on the ground, whatthe citizens want, what hasn't
been addressed.
Yeah, and we did this at themicro level.
Micro level means I need toknow how tall is your grass
outside your house, I see.
So every single policy, fromthe minuteness of it, was guided
, advised by a university.

(36:10):
Yeah.
Any policy, be it medical, we'dquery each and every single
institute.
Yeah.
Be it the health sector.
Yeah.
Whatever it is the games andfish commission, which pretty
much is a tourism sector.
Also the recreation we wouldquestion that there was a whole
department office.
And Fish Commission, whichpretty much is a tourism sector.
Also the recreation we wouldquestion that there was a whole
department office that wasfinanced for that Implication is

(36:32):
the research that takes placein these universities doesn't
take place in our own localuniversities.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
It's actually externally influenced.
Yes.
And so many may have done myhigher education locally.
Yes, fully yes and one thingthat I've seen, because after my
university or during myuniversity, we were involved in
these projects actually researchand all that yes yes and um.
the one that I remember vividlyis one that we carried about
smart cities, okay.

(36:59):
So when you design roads, yes,uh, what comes into mind and I
think this is very big, becauseI was so surprised that this was
implemented in India, in the US, elsewhere, and this research
was carried out here so, whenyou are designing a road just to
give people, the context isthat you need to think about
cyclists.
You need to think about themotorbikes, you need to think

(37:22):
about the pedestrians, you alsoneed to think about the sizes of
the cars that are passingthrough that road.
So, by the time you arepresenting the feasibility study
for the project to go on or not, already all these things are
accounted for.
What do we see?
again and again, 90% of our road, or maybe even 99% of our road,
they only think about thevehicles and even while they do

(37:44):
so, they don't actuallyimplement capacity and load of
each vehicle that passes there,exactly, which brings us to, uh,
you know, recurrent expenditureof, you know, rebuilding roads
yes, but also again, theaccident aspect of roads is not
taken care of, so what you'resaying actually is very, very
important, yes, that if we don'tinvest in our research and

(38:06):
development and put this moneyor resources that are required
in the university to carry outour local you know because even
engineering.
You are part of the engineeringboard in Kenya.
You see engineers saying thatthey can't do engineering
anymore because where are yougoing to work?
You do engineering and thenyou're working as a mtuwa mkono

(38:29):
or I don't know what they'recalled in English.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
It's the same thing For these.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Chinese or Japanese or whoever is building the road
I got you.
So how do we get ourselves inthat kind of quagmire?

Speaker 3 (38:41):
It's easy, it's easy.
It all boils down to goodgovernance.
There's no question about it.
Yeah.
I give you a good story.
Yeah, this is.
I won't mention the county,please, but there's a county
right now which, from the lastgovernment, the last 10 years,
you find the person who'sheading the engineers is a
person who did carpentry.
Now I'm curious to know whichcompany is that?

(39:04):
Sorry, I won't get into details, but I'm telling the truth.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
A carpenter is heading the engineering
department.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
He's heading all the engineers.
His skills, his appointment wasbased by who you know.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Nepotism, corruption.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Not that you are capable to do this job and
tribalism mostly.
And the challenge with that isthat same county has least
developed when it comes toinfrastructures.
So that becomes more like itreflects why that has happened
Because that county hasuniversities, yes, and also
students who've learntengineering, and even it has

(39:46):
hired engineers who cannot doanything because their hands are
tied.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Oh, because, you see, they can't outsmart the master.
That's the problem.
Now it comes to the carpenter.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
They can't outsmart the carpenter.
Yeah, that's the problem.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
The problem is you lack what you call an open door
policy of governance, whereby Iam open for whatever works best
for the people or for thisoffice.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
So we're not disputing that a carpenter can
lead.
Can lead, yes, but also thereis that insecurity of like if
you do more than this, you'refired because you're outshining
the master.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
And what I can say with that is it's a kind of
inferiority complex to be honest.
The reason I say this.
There's a story whereby theykeep saying that people are
taken out of Egypt, but Egyptwas never taken out of them, as
in we're still in this postindependence thinking whereby we

(40:43):
are still slaves to a mentality, a certain form of mentality.
You are oppressed, you areoppressed and you being
oppressed.
What happened is later on inlife.
You're still not free.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
You're still not free yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
I can comfortably say that during the Kibaki
presidency we started sensingsome freedom in the society we
have.
People started expandingthemselves, kind of opening up
to, kind of contributing to theeconomy and the growth of it by
just being as good as they areand they being themselves.
Now, when you come to the microlevel, you'll find that there's

(41:22):
that level of oppression thatstill exists in the minds of my
fellow brothers and sisters.
The reason I say this is I tooka plane from the US to Nairobi.
I took an Emirates flight.
It was the condition was superb, exquisite.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Trust me, this is the normal.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
And remember, I've lived in the US for 17 years,
true, true, so I know what'ssupposed to be.
And I know when it's notsupposed to be what's supposed
to be done.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
So are you saying US is the measure of things?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
What I'm trying to say.
There's a society that knowsits rights.
There's a society that has opendoor governance, yes, that has
policies that welcome.
Whatever works best for thepeople is what should be
implemented yeah, yeah, and theyhave set standards and they
have, and it's all about whatcan be delivered, reason I say
so.
Um, if there's history about the12 year old and the 17 year old

(42:16):
who who've been working withthe government I think it was
south korea, but I'm not so sure, but I'll go back to it in
building their defense systems.
And these are kids who taughtthemselves coding.
They taught themselves coding.
Now, how many African?
Okay, I've seen cases whereby,you see, there's a prosecution
of a student who approached acertain business to tell them of

(42:38):
the gaps in their own, for sure.
You know all their systems.
But they end up getting theshort end of the stick.
So we discourage innovation soyou kill instead of embracing.
You kill instead of embracing,you kill, and, and, and, and
it's.
It's that open door policy ofwhat works best for the people

(42:58):
that should be embraced.
If, if, if.
This kid is good in this yeahthen I, then he's made me
identify something good in himthat can work for the best of my
office.
Best thing I can do is notprosecute but work with.
Now the aspect of collaborationcomes again.
Here we are not competing.
Whatever works best, let's putit on the table for the good of

(43:21):
the people.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
There's something you said that is very interesting
before you tell us the Emiratesstory about us being of Egypt,
but Egypt is not of us.
I know even we have a localsaying about the village analogy
.
So does this actuallycontribute to body, mind and
spirit kind of aspect whereby weneed to nourish each at given

(43:47):
frequency?

Speaker 3 (43:48):
It's important why I say it.
So remember religion has beenused to manipulate people.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Sad story how.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Many ways.
Look at every war.
Is there a war that religionwas never an aspect of it?

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, the Ukraine.
How is religion involved?
Let's go back.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Ukraine is another whole different story.
Because, that's not even whatyou can categorize.
We are fighting them.
But going back, let's look atthis way Africa Spirituality is
big, it's big.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It was big even before colonization, even before
it was.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
And so that became a good entry point for
colonization.
Because once we capture yourspiritual aspect, everything
else falls in place.
It's like somebody was.
It was more like a joke to himthat we were told to close our
eyes and pray.
When we opened, the lands weregone.
You see what I mean, very true.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
So the point is it sounds funny, but it's true.
It is true, yeah, yeah, it'strue.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
So the point is we are wholesome.
There's a spirit aspect of it.
They say we are just spiritswith a body.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
And do you think Africans trust so fast?
Like you know, we trust eachother, but also we trust other
people who don't have goodintentions to us.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
We don't trust ourselves on many levels.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
So we don't trust at all.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
As I said before, initially we were in Egypt, but
Egypt was never taken out of us.
There's a big analogy on thataspect.
Reason I say so rememberthere's that comfort zone.
Once you get into a comfortzone, they say, the better the
devil you know than the angelyou don't.
And so there's that fear aspectof crossing the boundaries,
going beyond what we know asnormal, and that's why it's easy

(45:31):
, for example, in this settingof ours, our beloved continent,
easy to demonize something wedon't understand.
You demonize it, you make itlook evil.
I mean, look at Huduma Namba.
This was something that wasdone years ago but it's been
implemented years later.
Why?
Because we thought of the 666.
There's a whole story that camearound that why?

(45:52):
Because of demonizing things.
We don't understand why itcomes from the issue of
superstition.
And that's what I was driving toin terms of religion and
spirituality.
Superstition, as in this, as inthis, happened to this kid
because mama daddy did this orsomebody in their line, and
maybe it's just a disease thatcan be taken care of by the
right science.
You see what I mean?
Yeah, I mean we've had so manycases, I mean so many stories of

(46:14):
whereby, you know, people don'tgo to hospital because of a
certain faith they hold on to.
I mean there's a place forscience there's no question
about it yeah, that's why godgave us a brain, there's no
doubt about it.
Why the brain is supposed to dosomething right, it's supposed
to be Up to now.
We're still discovering.
I mean, life has always been inexistence for thousands and
thousands, but we keepdiscovering, why?

(46:35):
Because we discover to thelevel we accept, and then
another generation comes andpushes to another level, and
then another generation comesand pushes to another level,
another level.
But if you think about it, Imean when looking back at the
story of creation, just a goodstory, a good analogy.
There was a tree, but there wasno chair, there was no table
right this came later on, butthere was a tree.

(46:57):
Does that mean that the chairnever existed or could not have
existed that time, that periodof time?

Speaker 1 (47:11):
But now that you're brought, about the tree, you
know these three there is somany translation about what tree
was.
Yes, so, but let's assume isthey're just literally tree?

Speaker 3 (47:17):
yes, so you're saying people then didn't find use of
making chairs and tables and allthat, yeah, yeah so my point is
that, um, knowledge is, is,ever, is, there's a, there's a
potential of increasing yourknowledge towards advancing
humanity and the existence ofhumanity being, uh, better,
being made better.
So the point of this is we, we,that's what I'm saying, the

(47:39):
open-mindedness, open doorpolicies.
Don't demonize what you don'tunderstand.
Seek to understand.
Seek to understand.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Seek to know how this came into being why it came
into being Seek to know first.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Exactly Don't jump to the guns, and this definitely
will create better peace.
I mean more peace.
I mean because the aspect ofnot understanding is what also
brings issues about war andtensions.
So understanding should be anaspect and that's where it has
always been my bottom line tounderstand.
I need to understand thesepieces are coming this way.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Why?
What's the reason?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
behind it.
What's the understanding behindit?
You know a good example, taylorPerry.
You know, taylor Perry, rightyeah.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I know.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Taylor.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
And he's done a lot of good in the movie industry.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
But with certain agendas, he's starting agendas
and he's self-taught and allthat oh, he's self-taught
producer everything, everythingI mean he's uh with school he
didn't go to to learn all helearned.
Okay, it was the school of life.
You know what I mean?
That's new information yeah youhave a gift, you have a talent.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
He can put as good done, amazing stuff, amazing.
And this actually brings me tosomething different actually
here that, now that youmentioned, yes and he's
self-taught.
Yes, so are we all born withwhat we have and the life that
we live is just to shape it, tojust discover what is that that
we have and live our purpose?
Yes and again.

(48:57):
Uh, on the same point.
Yes, um, most of us actuallylive a whole life without
knowing what our purpose was inthis world and also this
spirituality into it.
Is that and it happens a lot, Idon't know, maybe not to
everyone, but you do somethingor something happens, like I've

(49:19):
talked to a couple of you know,amazing people who are doing
amazing stuff and they say luckhas to play a very, very huge
chunk in what they have achieved.
But I also feel, like you knowwhat they say, that if you die,
you just transform to the nextlife and you come again, as you

(49:39):
can come again as a differentbeing.
You know, there are all thosestories there and it feels like
the soul itself has no end.
It just changes the form.
I don't know if that's too deepfor this conversation, but when
you say you know we are in aspiritual world no, no, we are

(50:00):
spiritual, but we are living inthe body world Is that something
you resonate with?
Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, sorry, just to kind of go down into it.
The spiritual role in our livesis there.
There's no doubt about itInsights understanding.
There's a higher being you needto connect to.
There's more knowledge, moreunderstanding that you know than
you have, that you should seekto have.

(50:29):
We have all these differentreligions and they all push the
same story, basically there's ahigh existence that needs to be
appreciated and there's a higherform of knowledge you should
always be seeking to know andthis is what makes you a better
person.
My understanding, my view, theperspective that I have is

(50:52):
everybody was born with apurpose.
There's no doubt about it.
There's a reason you were bornin a certain continent.
There's a reason you were bornin a certain country.
There's a reason you were bornin a certain village.
There's a reason you were bornin a certain village.
There's a reason you're born ina certain family and it's up to
you to be able to identify.
Why am I here?
In this family setup.

(51:12):
And what is my contribution?
What can be my contribution?
To this circle that I have andthat should be what should be
driven, and I think that's whatCBC is trying to kind of also
drive in terms of kids firstgetting to know themselves.
Who am I?
What am I able to do?
What can I do?
What can I do with what I can'tdo In such a way that it

(51:34):
complements where my strengthsare.
That's what CBC is all about.
I mean bottom line you lookit's more like because you know
we are coming from a systemwhereby everybody is being
pushed to be number one to havean A, to have a B A.
Competitive Exactly, but you arenot being pushed to.
Who am I?
What can I do?
Because once I know my strength, I will work with you to enable

(51:54):
me, exactly to enable me, andthen it's more of a collective,
and that's how Babylon was built.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Exactly, exactly.
That's it Very interesting.
But do you think CBC has reallyimplemented properly?
Because I'm of a differentopinion.
It could be done better.
But I'm saying because ofcourse it's on trial.
How many years has it been here?
Maybe three, four?
So that means there's more roomfor improvement and refining.
True, Are they From yourexperience, because you interact

(52:21):
with these policy makers thepeople who are involved with
this?
Are they intentionallyimproving it over time?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
That ought to be the story.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
That ought to be the case.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
The reason I say so, education is dynamic.
Remember we came down to we hadmentioned earlier that
knowledge is dynamic.
You need to keep on learningunderstanding.
And I gave you a good exampleof the work we did in
establishing what we callAcademies of Central Arkansas,
in the state of Arkansas, in thecity or rather school district
of Little Rock, in such a waythat the skill sets that the

(52:53):
kids have by the time they'redone with school is more
applicable to filling theirworkforce need in that society.
And this is a country that isconsidered to be way ahead of us
, and so if they saw that theywere stagnating, they were not
meeting the market needs.
And remember this is somethingwork we did and you can go see

(53:14):
those academies of CentralArkansas, because what pretty
much did is we identified, forexample, engineering, computer
science, agriculture, healthsector, medical, all the strong
points of the economy of thatstate and we created academies
within the high schools.
I see so when in that highschool and you go to a
particular high school, forexample I talked about aviation

(53:34):
technology in mango high schoolyeah, I knew that they taught
aviation before I chose thatschool yeah so when I was going
there, my mindset was on theengineering, aerononautical
engineering.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
So also there's transparency on what is
happening on the ground Exactly.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
So definitely there was a need to have pilots being
shaped up from an early age andthat became the focus Even in
the sports world.
Right now we know the Kenyagovernment has these sports
academies that it's kind of beenpushing as an agenda because to
grow that talent, to nurturethat talent, of which I had seen

(54:10):
Sport Pesa- kind of working onbefore.
A lot of issues came up, butthere's that need to be able to
focus.
Now as a student I go here.
I know computer science is.
They have an academy ofcomputer science.
Everybody in that high schoolis welcome to learn something
from that academy.
But there are those wholiterally identify themselves
with that academy and they takethe whole course until

(54:32):
examination.
Now CBC, that's what it'ssupposed to achieve.
I know 844, we did a lot in 844in primary school, I remember I
can't even remember how manysubjects we had.
We had so many.
My backpack was heavy everysingle morning.
I built muscles while I wasstill in primary school.
Books were so many.
We did carpentry.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
There was woodwork, I remember I even did home
science, art and craft.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
I made some PJs, by the way, when I was in primary
school, I made some booties,which my sister and brother used
later on in life.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I made some mats.
I remember Did you makepetticoats.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
When I came in they told me pyjama and that was
tougher than the petticoat.
Because, petticoats just taketwo pieces.
You cannot just put the hemstitches and all Pyjama was too
complicated, man.
You have to size it up to theshoulder size, to the right
fitting.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
So I became a tailor while I was still in primary
school, but you were an engineer, so, yes, that could not be
hard for you.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
We were still kids, then remember no.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
You know if you're an engineer, by the way, and this
is one thing that I think weshould pass across.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yes, and even parents , as much as kids are involved.
Some of the things that you dolater in life.
I don't feel like there's amiracle that happens for someone
to become an engineer.
You're born an engineer.
It's only that with time youstart learning all this and it
takes us back to what we saidearlier.
Everyone is born with what theyneed in this life.

(55:55):
What actually we do in life,through education and everything
, is just to amplify and ensurethat that signal is more focused
on that and making sure that weare implementing it.
Yeah, so at the end of the day,you know it is what it is it is,
it is.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, it is Um.
What you say is true, thatyou're born um.
You know.
Somebody say you know, I'mlooking for my purpose in life.
Yeah.
And when somebody is sayingthat there is looking outward
other than inward, I like that.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
You see what I mean.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
That's where, now, the confusion comes in.
You're looking for this signfrom the skies.
It's inside you.
Yes, yes, yes.
And that's now the motto inhigh school.
This is Mango.
High School is Jishinde Ushinde, which means defeat yourself.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
It's from inside to inside.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah, everything is inside your.
It's from inside to inside.
Yeah, everything is inside yourwhole package.
The more you dig deeper intoyourself, the more the good
comes out.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Let me ask you, now that you say Jishinde, ushinde.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Is that why they wrote their motto in every exam
paper?
Because you used those papersto revise.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yes, jishinde, ushinde, ushinde, exactly it's
true.
That was interesting when I sawthose papers.
I was like that sounds cunning,but with time.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
I realized it means a lot because for me, I started
looking for my purpose when Iwas really, really young, and
when I tell my story, peoplewill piece things together and
know why.
But it's very, very interestingto always look for your purpose
.
It doesn't matter by the stateof life you're in, right now or
your age or anything.
Anything, finding your purposeis very important.
It helps you live a fullynourished life as opposed to

(57:32):
where you are chasing thesechasing that looking outward and
all that yes but that's a side.
Yes, so, chief, you went to theus after strathmore, right?
Okay, okay and you build allthese academies.
You did research that wasreally used to the grassroots,
yes, and you stayed there forlong 17 years, 17 years, for
sure.
Why are you doing engineeringworks?

Speaker 3 (57:54):
I started doing administrative later on because
of a position that opened up, Isay working with an oil company,
and so mine became moreadministrative.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (58:04):
What happened is a family company called Colson Oil
, colson Oil.
It was the largestindependently family-owned oil
petroleum business in that stateoil marketing and so I joined
them, together with people wefinished college with, to be
able to work with them at thattime.
Before then, I was also workingat another industry that what

(58:26):
does administration mean?
Administration means overseeingall the outlets.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Uh, it involves a lot , and this is something else
that I need to ask you becausealso I've seen a lot of friends
who are out there also.
I've heard stories from peoplewho come back.
Why do you do electricalengineering but you do
administration work.
Is there no electricalengineering jobs also in the US?
Or how does this work?
Or just you know the paperfirst, you secure the bag first

(58:55):
and then figure out do I need todo electrical engineering, or
what is this?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
What happens is that in life, whatever card you dealt
with, you work with.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
If you're given lemons make lemonade, you cannot
make orangeade.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
So in this case I did start first.
Initially, before I startedworking with them, I was working
with another company calledDeluxe Deluxe.
They're the ones who did allthe CDs or DVDs.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Oh, I see this was back then.
That is printing theengineering work that goes into
it and everything.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
And they have all the machineries.
So I used to pull night shiftsthere on those machines.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
That is after graduating.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
No, I was still in school then, okay, okay.
So later on, before I finishedschool, there was this position
that was open and I saw oil is agrowing industry in Kenya.
It was more like that thing youwant to know before you go back
home.
You know what I mean?
I want to get the whole nineyards about everything about
petroleum.
I want to know the whole nineyards.

(59:57):
I want to know from thebeginning to the end how this
business works.
So by the time I'm going backhome I have something to
contribute to, because when Iwas looking at DVDs I couldn't
see the future of that in Kenya.
I'm sorry, but I couldn't.
The technology was way ahead ofus.
Tell you what?

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I think in Kenya there was so much DVD CDs
consumption more than anywhereelse through piracy, and I have
to say the way it is.
Not everyone can afford $9, $10to go and watch a big screen
movie.
This actually also created alot of opportunities.
I know it's wrong for the guyswho create the content and

(01:00:36):
everything.
It's not right, but that's howinnovation is spread, even when
you look about programming andthe technology.
Right now you can get all thesebooks, online tutorials for
free.
You just need to invest on theinternet, which is actually
cheaper.
So back to the DVDs, cds.
I don't think you saw.

(01:00:57):
You were right you saw, thatthere's no future.
But in terms of consumption, weconsume a lot of DVDs and CDs
and we're looking at this yearwas what the year 2000-2001?

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
right, this is a long time ago, because people have
stopped.
Even right now, there arepeople who ban CDs and DVDs for
movies, music and all this kindof stuff, but it's facing out
and this actually maybe let megive us a short story about
myself.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
So this time I was thinking like you know, I had a
studio like a whole DJ Academystudio.
I said since you know, at theend of the day, you know there
are people who are asking formovies, why don't I buy the, the
, the duplicator?
Which burns like eight, nineCDs at a time with a master.
Okay, guess what I like eight,nine CDs at a time.

(01:01:44):
Nice, nice.
With a master.
Okay, guess what?
I bought the whole duplicate.
It was very expensive, okay.
And then, all of a sudden, Irealized people are coming with
a flash disk.
I have that duplicate until now.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
That's 24 hours, so it shows you how fast and this
actually didn't take.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
it's in a span of months.
Wow, right now people don't goand get the CDs and DVDs.
They go with a flash disk whichis 8, 16 gigabytes, get the
movie.
Once they are done with themovie, they delete and get more
space for that.
Yes, so it shows you how muchtechnology transitions, and I
think these will actuallycontribute to our main story
that we are going to talk aboutin a few.
You get into this company thatbans CDs and DVDs.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Was it the only company in the US?
It was the largest, the largestcompany.
So anytime a movie came out inHollywood, we were the first
people to get.
So, even before they do theirpremieres and shows.
I had seen all the movies.
Oh my goodness, Because whenyou're fixing the machines, what
do you do?
You watch the movies too.
So I watched a lot of moviesback then.

(01:02:43):
I didn't get addicted to moviessomehow, I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Because, um, but um so is it wrong to be addicted to
movies?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
uh well, is it adding value?

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
at the end of the day , I always ask myself I see up
to now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
It's hard for me to sit down and watch a tv show I'm
sorry to say this, but you canwatch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Watch a movie with one hour and 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Even that is hard.
I think the older you get, themore responsibilities you get,
the more purpose thinking youbecome the more?
It's more like how is it addingto the vision, how is it adding
to me as where I'm heading toand so something I learned early
on in life and that's wheresome habits never caught me

(01:03:25):
because it was all like, at theend of the day, what have I
gained?
What value has been added to me?
You know, the good book saysall things might be good but,
not all things are beneficial, Isee.
So it's good, but is itbeneficial?
Yeah, so that's always mygauging point Is it adding value
?
It gauging point, is it addingvalue?
It's not.
It's not a big deal, you skipOkay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
It's not adding, you know.
Yeah, true, true, I totallyagree with you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Yes, yes, so that became the mindset.
So, jumping into the oilcompany I learned the whole nine
years.
That is from downstream toupstream, because they had the
whole, you know the wholebusiness laid out.
So it was more like a learningprocess of business in the oil
field.
And this I did for 11 years.
And then there's always thatthing of what am I doing back at

(01:04:12):
home?
What am I doing back at home?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
And your mindset was like when I go back at home.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
I have this knowledge that I can't implement.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
So, there was that purpose driven while you're in
the US, while you're doing whatyou're, doing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
That's it, and by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
This speaks to something I wanted to ask you
when you get to that point.
Okay, okay, we have so manyintellectuals all over the world
not only in the US, but allover the world, and I hear some
of them are heading like serious, you know, engineering
companies, serious militarycompanies.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
That means, we're smart.
Extremely, so Extremely, soExtremely.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
I wanted to ask you why did you?
Did you just come back to visitor just come back and do stuff
around here?

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
It was a progressive.
It was progressive.
It was more like a two-yearthinking, three-year plan.
So, in terms of I knew I haveto go back.
Point is, at what point, atwhat time?
So I needed to have skills thatare at value on the ground as
soon as I land.
So I started earlier on startedengaging in drilling of

(01:05:12):
boreholes.
So even before I landed herethere was a business of drilling
boreholes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
That was ongoing, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
So at least this was like more of a cushioning thing.
That's amazing, yeah, amazingyeah yeah, so when you land,
there's something that you'vebeen working over the years so
it kind of cushions you up yeahbecause you're coming from a
fast world country where thingsare convenient so you need shock
absorbers exactly, I mean it.
Somebody just came from the usthe other day and this was, she

(01:05:41):
told me, coming back home is a180 degree.
Which means you turn back.
It's like where you just camefrom.
You're looking at the past,you're not looking at the future
.
So she was like man.
I'm still trying to adjust alittle bit.
This place is the opposite ofwhere I just came from, Because

(01:06:01):
here the systems work.
Systems work.
I mean you go to a publicoffice, you will get the service
.
You're not doing the publicofficer a favor.
Okay.
Because that's the mentality Goto many offices whereby it's
like you're doing them a favor,Uh-huh, you see what I mean it
is.
I mean this aspect customerservice.

(01:06:22):
I saw our governor set up a CCfor customer service, which was
kind of insightful.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
No, I'm sorry but, it was insightful.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
No, I get it.
You know I connect.
I do connect Because customers,when I landed here, it was one
of the shortcomings that jumpedoff the plane to me the courtesy
of serving somebody, thedecency of going an extra mile
for you to do what you'resupposed to do.

(01:06:53):
You know, somebody said this,another lady, she was a nurse, a
nurse in one of the hospitalshere.
When she went to the US sheended up doing nursing, and so
she started working of thehospitals here.
Yeah, so when?
she went to the US.
She ended up doing nothing,yeah, and so she started working
in the hospitals.
Yeah, and you know she calledback and she was like you know
what I had to repent and she wasserious about this one she

(01:07:14):
truly was serious Of all theservices I gave in the hospital
while I was still in Kenya.
Yeah, because of the attitude,the mindset, I think the nurses
need to hear this.
I'm sorry, but it's the reality.
This is a society I lived for 17years If you don't deliver what
you're supposed to deliver,because the other day, when His

(01:07:36):
Excellency was appointing theministers, he was very adamant
on the aspect of delivery ofservice by the ministers and
said that there will be nolaxity on that issue.
If something is a role you'vebeen given, give it your heart,
give it your mind, give it yoursoul.
Serve.
Serve with joy.

(01:07:56):
Serve, you know something, iswe close doors for ourselves.
The reason I say we close doorsfor ourselves, do you know?
It's in service that you grow,true, true, and this is what
will bring us to the Rotaryissue.
Rotary is all about serviceabove self.
And according to the Rotarythat's the Rotary motto that you

(01:08:16):
become served better by youoffering the service of yourself
.
So the point of service.
You know it was interestingwhen I saw Sakanja putting that
docket under CEC.
Who would think of a ministerfor customer service?
Think about it.
There has to be a certain painpoint in the society he can

(01:08:37):
identify with.
He was, like you know,something needs to be done, true
and better, because this is agovernment office.
We need to have aninternational standard of
service to humanity.
Yes.
This person is a human.
Yeah, this person is sick.
Yes, the other day somebodydied when Sakanja, honorable His
Excellency Sakanja, went to oneof the hospitals and somebody

(01:08:58):
had died just because ofnegligence.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yes, yes, yes, you know what I mean In a hospital.
Yeah, kid who had the chamberdug into the brain, you see?

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
I mean it's sad, it's a sad issue.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
I think the reason why even we're talking about
this and remember this ishappening in Nairobi.
Now, if you multiply that tothe 52 countries and then
different places, towns andcities that they have you see
how many people just losebecause of that and uh do you
think maybe we we don't reallyappreciate the people who offer
this service better, or we don'tshow them the the importance of

(01:09:36):
humanity, or what, what?
what can we do to make sure thatthese people actually feel like
?
You know, if I was the one thatthese people actually feel like
?

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
you know, if I was the one looking for this service
, how, what would I expect?

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
it comes down to the spiritual aspect.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Spiritual acts is do unto others as you'd like others
to do and choose.
Absolutely right, absolutely um.
All men are equal.
All men are equal, no questionabout it yeah point, that issue
of competitiveness.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I mean.
So we are brainwashed to thinkwe are better than others.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Sad story of which we are not At the end of the day,
and this was one of the thingsthat kind of drove the
government under the Obamaadministration.
I was there when that washappening.
All humans matter, all humansmatter, all humans matter, all
humans.
Binadamu ni binadamu, so allmen are created equal.
There's need for that to berealized, especially in the

(01:10:33):
public service.
So the spiritually aspect ofthis is the practice of what you
learn in terms of spiritualmatters and I think this is what
plays a role in terms of youseeing other people as humans is
what plays a role in terms ofyou seeing other people as
humans.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
It does play a role.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
There's no question about it, because at the end of
the day, we all want the samething.
So if at the end of the day, weall want the same thing, you
know, like somebody said, lookat the stars in the sky.
They all shine.
They all shine, some shinebrighter than others because
they are closer to you, yes, yes, not because they are better
than the other star.
The other star is just fartherfrom you.

(01:11:08):
Yes, you see what I mean.
So there is space for everybodyto shine.
But how does everybody shine?
By being put on an eco-pedestal.
The ground is level.
Yes, you make something out ofyourself.
Yeah, so that's the purpose ofthe government to create that
environment in such a way thatanybody you will be measured by

(01:11:28):
your output.
The ground has been made level.
The seeds you plant are theseeds you sow, and that's one
thing about the Americangovernment.
I also noticed what you putinto that system is what you get
back.
An equal price down measure iswhat you get back.
We don't have to dig a lot.
Why?
Because policies have been putin place.
The system has been put inplace to ensure all the I's have

(01:11:50):
been dotted, t's have been, toensure there's equality,
inclusivity, to ensure thatwhatever I put in this soil is
what will come back to me.
It's an issue of making surethat soil is good for growth,
that environment is conducivefor nurturing.
Yeah, Once that environment,then people will shine.
As you mentioned, we have a lotof Kenyans doing extremely well

(01:12:12):
outside this country, which istrue, and that also Kenda comes
to light when it comes toHonorable His Excellency Sakanja
.
When he Sakanja when heappointed as an advisory the
person who has been critical tobuilding the infrastructure
transport network in UK.
He's part of the advisorycommittee for that.
And he's a Kenyan.

(01:12:35):
And he's doing that in the UKand we're suffering here in
Nairobi.
It doesn't make sense.
So it's an issue of all thesegiftings and talents.
They found a conducive locationfor them, An environment, A
conducive that allowed you go toDallas, Fort Worth.
There was a time the person whowas running I don't know if
she's still there who wasrunning that airport was a

(01:12:55):
Kenyan yeah.
If such a person came back toKenya, will they be able to give
the same kind of?
They would be killed.
My point is or Will they beable to give the same kind of?
They will be killed.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
My point is or they will be jobless.
Jobless is more like it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Let me shock you here the first iPad on the face of
the earth by Apple.
Guess who designed it?
Elvis Mwenda Kibiti.
The first iPad.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
A Kenyan.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
He was one class behind me in high school.
He goes to the US.
He has over 139 patents orsomething With Apple.
Recently he was taken byFacebook.
He's in charge of the Facebooklabs, the meta labs.
But look at his history.
All the patents are listedonline, so this is something you

(01:13:49):
can look and verify.
Yes, okay.
So in this environment of ours,we're talking of manufacturing
sector we are looking at Rwandais already producing its own
cell phones.
And we are looking at us as acountry.
Will this have been the bestplace for him to grow to the
level he's grown?
Absolutely not so, which meansthere's something missing.

(01:14:09):
What's missing?
That environment?
Yeah, we have a departmentparastatal that deals with
innovations in kenya.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Yeah, I'd welcome to know how much they've achieved
because we have so many docketsin kenya, so many?

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
parastatals.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
so many parasiticals Because most of them actually
ask like rewards and the guyswho are put in place.
Maybe the intention is not tohelp anyone.
Is this another job with abetter salary, with a better
package, Whereas people forgetthat there's not much enough
money in this world that you canmake and if you're not serving
people even, it's really hard.

(01:14:45):
Yes, to get to that point whereyou're saying we have more
resources, that we can even havemore, better packages yes, and
I think we need to change themindset.
I think the biggest problem ofafricans, and even the reason
why we're doing this, is tochange the mindset, from the
mindset of you know what?
Yes, abundance, yes, there'smore than enough for everyone.
If you get it as Engineer Felix, it doesn't mean MK loses it.

(01:15:10):
It's not a zero-sum game thatyou're living in, so we need to
be there.
And for us to be there.
One of the things that I thinkwe should do and you can
contribute to this is that weneed to move from the point of
being selfish.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
And be selfless.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
What I mean is that, if you are doing something, do
it really good.
Do it without caring.
You know what am I getting outof it?
Or what my friends, my brothers, my relatives are getting from
it, and then, with that aspect,we are able to move from point A
to B over time.
And imagine if 1.4 billionpeople are all doing this.

(01:15:49):
It's a powerhouse.
And most of these guys are youngLike 80% are below 50 years old
, which means they are youngenough to contribute to the
economy engine, the socialengine, the community engine and
whatnot.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
I totally agree.
Competition is, as I said,compete with yourself.
That's the best standard.
Best standard is compete withyourself and the attitude that
definitely should always be thecase is that it's not about me
and it should never be about you.
It should be about whatdifference can you make in the
life of another.
You know, for example, this ismore like a ministry I can say

(01:16:30):
so comfortably.
It's more like missionary work,I can say so comfortably.
The reason I say so is becausewhat you're called to do, you're
supposed to do it withappreciation of the sanctity of
life.
Appreciate life as in theperson next to you there's
something you can add of valueto them, and don't expect
anything back because, that'swhat now kills progress, when

(01:16:52):
you expect something back.
let your satisfaction be in theperfection of the service you
give, the excellence of theservice you give.
Was it your best?
Is it the 67% you're trying topride with?
Or is it the?
100%.
You're capable to do.
Capable to do?
Do you know, the more you pushyourself, the better you become
as a person.
Absolutely.
Don't settle for 67%.

(01:17:12):
I'm ahead of the game.
Is that your 100%?
No, if it's not, you're stillnot ahead of the game, because
the more you learn to pushyourself, the more you learn
that guess what?
It's never about me, but theresults and the good I can bring
in the lives of others, andthat's what will serve you too.
Your needs will always be.
You see, everybody appreciatesgood things in life, and I

(01:17:33):
remember one time there'ssomebody called Vusi Vusi
Dembaquayo, and one of hisemphases was that whatever
service you give of excellence,it will never be too expensive
for somebody to pay if it meetsthe need.
And he gave this when he wasgiving a good example.
He said if I walk into a Toyotashop and then I go to a

(01:17:53):
Lamborghini shop and I starttelling the sales associate that
it's too expensive and I'mlooking at the Toyota what value
are you getting from theLamborghini that the Toyota
doesn't have?
to justify the cost of it.
Because there are people whowill walk into the Lamborghini
and buy that Lamborghini.
Why?
Because they know the value ofit.
They know what are the extrafeatures and packages that come

(01:18:16):
with it you won't find in acertain Toyota, true, true, you
see what I mean.
And they'll still buy it.
Why?
Because of the value, the value.
And they'll still buy it.
Why?
Because of the value, the value, the value, the value, yes.
So point is people will pay youfor the value you give to them,
you add to their lives.
Yes, so you can.
So that's what I'm saying.
Nothing can be too expensivefor a price tag if the
excellence of it is serving acertain need.

(01:18:37):
Absolutely, you see what I mean.
And so what happens is if youstop yourself from giving
somebody service because you'renot, actually there's a certain
community.
I lived in the US for a whileand you'll find that there's a
certain population that alwaysloves doing handiwork, handiwork
, handiwork.
You find the Latino population.

(01:18:59):
They have so much into doingwork by hand.
And people they pride in theirwork and people love hiring them
.
Anytime you want a house to bebuilt, the first people you kind
of lock in is them.
Because they pride in that work.
And because they pride, theyalways become the default.

(01:19:22):
The default.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
And the go-to people.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Exactly Because you know these people.
It's not about the money tothem, it's about the quality of
service they can give to you.
Yeah, that always jumps out inthat community.
Always jumps out.
So anytime you want this kindof service, you find yourself
defaulting to calling somebodyto do that for you.
Yeah, so my point is they'vecreated a niche for themselves.

(01:19:45):
They created an interestingperspective about themselves
that we love doing handiwork andwe deliver with excellence.
Not based upon how much you canpay me there's definitely that
we've agreed upon but the majorsense of my pride is in the
excellence of my work.
Absolutely, and that's whatneeds to be kind of showcased.

(01:20:06):
Yeah, whatever you're doing,whatever service you're giving,
let it be.
That is the focus.
And if that is the focus, theright price tag will always come
to you.
The right price tag will alwayscome to you, even if you don't
need to ask, trust me it willcome to you and when you ask for
it, they won't have a problemto give it Because they
themselves they will connect andabsolutely agree that you

(01:20:30):
deserve it.
You deserve it.
You see, life has a way ofcreating balance.
Life has a way of creatingbalance.
Implication is justice willalways take place.
It may not be in 10 seconds, 2seconds, 1 hour, but the will
will come back and deliver whatit's supposed to in terms of
what you deserve.

(01:20:51):
If this is what you deserve,trust me, it will take place.
That's why, when this thingabout COVID happened it started
in one part of the world but,affected the entire system and
other countries.
The point of this is aninjustice in one part of the
world, but affected the entiresystem and other countries.
Point of this is this Aninjustice in one place is an
injustice everywhere.
A justice in one place is ajustice everywhere.

(01:21:13):
Life has a way of creatingbalance and that's why, boiling
down to a point we'll talk abouton environmental matters, is,
if we don't take care of ourenvironment, we are killing
ourselves, because environmentwill take care of itself.
And guess who will beeliminated?
You?
You the cause of it, becauselife was created balanced and it

(01:21:35):
will retain that balance, ifyou like it or not.
Trust me on that one, becausethe thing is you can't fight the
force of gravity can you?
You can jump from the air andtell gravity, I'm fighting
against you, but you still comedown to it that's a very good
analogy now that you're talkingabout environment okay, the.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Is it rotaract or rotary?

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
club yeah, yeah rotary organization.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
So how are these two related?
Because there's what you'retalking about climate change,
the commitment of companies likeGoogle, atlassian, amazon all
these big fund companiescommitting to like by 2025 to
2030, they will be operating atzero carbon emission energy,

(01:22:23):
things to do with renewableenergy which actually preserves
the environment.
But it goes beyond that for sure, because these are just if you
put this company together.
Maybe they don't have a totalof more than 10 million
employees and what they consume,but they play a key role in
leadership Because, also,they're not only saying it but
they're putting dollar into itto make sure that it happens

(01:22:45):
exactly, uh, I know, like theCEO of uh Atlassian, one of the
companies that I've beenassociated with for some time.
Okay, uh, my Canon Brox has beenvery active on Twitter and also
influencing, um, you know, thepolicy, the government policy,
because these, all these keystakeholders, ought to come
together for this to make senseFor you as Rotary.

(01:23:07):
Are you working independently?
Are you working as Rotaract?
How is this working?

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
Rotary organization was formed in the year 1905.
And how it was formed there?
It was professionals, led by MrPaul Harris.
They came together.
They're all from differentprofessions.
There's an engineer, there's adoctor, businessman, they're all
different professions.
And so they came togetherasking themselves the same thing
we started with in theconversation the knowledge you

(01:23:36):
have, how is it adding value tothe society?
How is it adding value to thecommunity?
What you know, is it addingvalue?
Is it adding value?
So they came together and thequestion was what can we do with
our skills, with our competence, with our network, with our
ability to make the society inChicago?
Because that's where it startedbetter.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Is it a secret society?
It is not a secret society.
We are too open.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
If you go to Rotary International you'll find
everything about us there.
So nothing is secret about it.
We are open, in fact quite theopposite.
Remember, we talked about opendoor policies, open door
government.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
So anyone can join.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
Anybody can join.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Do they need to pay anything?
Definitely there has to be thatpot that sustains the
activities For you to take.
You have to give.
Exactly so how much is thejoining fee?

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Let's start from here .
There's a Rotary International.
We start from there and theheadquarter that's a good aspect
you have brought into it, sowhen you join Rotary.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Club do you join the international?
Is it the branch?
How does it work?

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
Exactly.
We'll come down to that.
So there's the RotaryInternational.
From the Rotary International,we go to the district level.
The district level is formed ofseveral countries.
Now the district Kenya is in iscalled District 9212.
It's formed by Ethiopia,eritrea, kenya and South Sudan.
Uganda and Tanzania are in adifferent district.

(01:25:03):
This was just the mechanics offormation because, entry points,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
We cannot decide why they were part of that.
This is beginning to sound likesomething else, but it's okay,
it's alright.

Speaker 3 (01:25:16):
So point is, kenya is in that district of district
9212.
And so we have Ethiopia,eritrea, we have South Sudan,
and then we have Kenya Now.
And so we have Ethiopia,eritrea, we have South Sudan,
and then we have.
Kenya.
Now, from there now we have nowwhat we call each country
office.
There's a country office, so wehave the country office in
Kenya and then, under thecountry office now we have the

(01:25:36):
clubs themselves, which are indifferent regions, different
regions of the country, and so,but on an administrative level,
it's just from the Rotary officeof Kenya to the particular
specific club.
So there's no in-between like aregional office or something of
the sort.
There's none whatsoever.
You have that directconnectivity.
And so they have differentpositions in every club.

(01:25:58):
But we have some main positionsand these are based by the
courses, the pillars of rotary.
We have, uh, polio.
In fact, when it was formed,the main agenda was to eradicate
polio from the world.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Oh uh, basically science behind it as I said,
they are professionals who cametogether.
The notaract funded the processof coming up with the vaccine,
or they made the vaccines, andso how did you?

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
work.
Let me define something elsebefore you go far.
We have rotary, we haverotaract, then we have interact
what are these?

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
these are like the first degree, second that.
Until that, is that somethingdegree okay it's just um.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
We have primary school, we have high school, we
have college.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Again, the same same thing that I'm saying Okay, yeah
, so so Rotary main members,rotary.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
These are mature adults who are professionals.
Remember, it was started byprofessionals and so under
professionals.
Now we have now those who arestill in college, so those are
in the college period.
They're the ones who form therotaract, the university, and
then from then we have the highschoolers.
So the high schoolers are theinteract who are members?
so, uh, currently, um, we areforming.

(01:27:16):
We're trying to form as many inhigh school as possible.
Uh, in university, we alreadyhave them in existence.
Narobi university has its ownjku, nairobi University has its
own, jku has its own.
KU has its own.
They're there.
They're there.
Now, with that pretty muchdefined, we go now to the
courses, the courses of Rotary,as I mentioned initially.
When they started off, it wasto help eradicate polio.

(01:27:37):
Help eradicate, yes.
So, and remember, these arepeople, different professionals.
We have doctors, we have policymakers, scientists everybody,
every single profession,teachers everybody whatever
profession you are, you're there.
You're a nurse, whatever it is.
And so the point was this isthe agenda, this is the course,
so we come with it.
Now.

(01:27:59):
That has been our drive since1970s, and they started, you
said 1905.
65 years later, yeah, becausethat's when now polio became
more like it's widespread.
So it was an issue ofidentifying where is the need in
the society.
Remember, rotary tries to helpalleviate the pains of humanity,

(01:28:22):
to make an equal existence forall men and women.
So the point is which is stillinteresting, because it was
later on that women were allowedinto it to join it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
It was only men.
This sounds more than what Iwas suspecting.
In fact, right now we have thefirst Rotary International
President.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
as a woman in the history of Rotary, we started in
1905.
And even the district governor,she's a lady, from Ethiopia.
She's also a lady.
I mean, the thing is, it's been, you see, everything was guided
by the governance in everysociety at that particular time,
Because at that time women werenot taking key roles.

(01:29:06):
I mean, that's how the societywas going to build up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
What was the reason?
Because I hear in Illuminatithe same thing, I don't know, in
the missionary the same thing.
Also, even these women agendasbecome like the main agenda.
Yes, yes, in every other sector.
Yeah, all of a sudden, truegender, yes, yes, in every other
sector.
Yeah, all of a sudden True,it's like there's an emergency
somewhere.
Yes, why is that?

Speaker 3 (01:29:27):
It's because it needs .
You see, as I said initially,all men are created equal.
There's this period of timewhere women were considered to
be second class citizens as muchas Africans were considered to
be the same.
That's why we had slavery issues.
So this is something that knowit's.
As I said, life is dynamic andit was all about control, and

(01:29:48):
power still is, and it's a sadstory at the same time, because
man was created to controlthemselves.
There's nobody who was createdto control another person.
If you look at it basing on youas a human being, you can
control yourself.
But to be honest yes To be fair.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
To be fair, all animals.
There's hierarchy, there'shierarchy and if we learn from
nature, as you were alludingearlier.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
In every animal kingdom there's hierarchy.
There is, there has to be.
So that means For kingdomthere's hierarchy, there has to
be For order, for the purpose oforder.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
Well, let's not put some?

Speaker 4 (01:30:28):
control key there If we are learning from nature.
Nature is something that wecannot change.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Actually, it has to be balanced, as you alluded
earlier on then why is it thatnow we want to put some
imbalance?
Because that's imbalance.
If there's no balance of coursewe get the imbalance side of
things, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Why is that important ?
Definitely, women were notconsidered to be having the same
equity as men.
Also, the same issue came withslavery.
Africans were not considered tobe equal to all others.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:31:05):
these are fights that have taken place, civil rights
and all that Civil rights isalways there in one aspect, one
respect to the other.
But wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Yes, wait a minute, let's go slow here.
Because there's something Iwant our viewers, our listeners
to understand.
Okay.
Slavery did not start withAfricans.
No it was there even inbiblical times, exactly.
So saying that it's becauseAfricans are considered less
equal, it's not right to someextent, because even when you

(01:31:33):
think about Roman Empire there,were slaves, if you think about
all these other empires thatwere there.
They were slaves and I think Iunderstand when people try to
move away from the master andslave.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
Yes, yes.
Because, at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
it empowers everyone to achieve their maximum
potential, which is the keyGotcha.
But saying that hierarchy isnot supposed to be there and you
should be eradicated to someextent, it's confusing.
Because, even again taking youback to the nature world things
there's always hierarchy, Eventhe trees right, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
There are taller trees, there are shorter trees,
they are shrubs.
You know, there is all these,and I think even nature works
like that, for you can put orderas one of the reasons, but
there are so many other reasons

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
that you can come up with.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
True, true, it's purpose, it's purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
There's a reason a certain tree is short.
There's a reason a certain treeis tall.
It's purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
The reasons as to why certain flowers are green, some
are yellow it's because thereis certain kind of insects, they
have certain kind of visioncolorblind so they are attracted
to this particular, which meanscreation was created perfectly
with perfection, to be able totake care of itself.
Interesting aspect even our ownbodies are created to take care
of themselves, as in your bodywas created to be able to take
care of itself.
Interesting aspect even our ownbodies are created to take care
of themselves.

(01:32:45):
As in your body, was created tobe able to heal itself.
So what's supposed to be thecase especially with medication,
as I wouldn't say so much isthe case at the moment.
But how it's supposed to bederived is whatever is put in
your system is to enable acertain process of healing the
body should take place.
So your body was created toheal itself.

(01:33:06):
If I cut myself here, it's nota certain depth.
The skin will still come backtogether.
But if it goes to a certaindepth, then there's certain kind
of germs which have gone inside.
So I'll need to get some kindof injection to ensure whatever
went inside is kicked out.
So it is to enable the body toheal itself.
Same thing with nature, samething with life.
It is balanced.
So some trees are taller for acertain purpose.

(01:33:27):
Some are shorter for a certainpurpose.
Women have a purpose, men havea purpose.
I cannot give birth to a child.
That's number one.
Their body system is different.
Does that make them less?
No, in fact, if anything.
In the story of creation theysay man, woman was created to
help man.

(01:33:47):
To help man.
Implication of this is the onlyperson who can help you.
They're either equal instrength or stronger than you,
right?
I mean, if I'm to push a carand I tell a two-year strength
or stronger than me for this carto move, you see the story of a

(01:34:08):
helper.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
That's what a helper is.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
So a helper is somebody of equal strength or
stronger than you for an effectto take place.
So women are not lesser, and sothe emphasis on girl, child is
because of the culture.
It's a culture which was basedon control factor.
Why do we have female genitalmutilation, fgm, if it wasn't a

(01:34:31):
control factor?

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
So certain cultures.
But then why did you have FGMExactly?
It's not even supposed to exist.
It was a control factor.
In fact.
If anything, the repercussionsof it are devastating.
Many women have internalbleeding taking place.
Because of that, we have, Imean, so many complications.

Speaker 1 (01:34:49):
But that goes for any other procedure that is not
carried out.
Well, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
Now, in this case, you see, a woman wasn't created,
with that having been done, sothere's no need for that to be
done, because there's no valueaddition to it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Same with circumcision.
Circumcision is different.
Now, why is it different?
It's different because it'sbeen proven that HIV I'm not
actually advocating because Idon't understand FGM to be
honest, if I say I understand,I'll be lying.
But even with the circumcisionnow that you're bringing HIV

(01:35:23):
before HIV.
There was circumcision In thebeginning of time.
With the circumcision now thatyou're bringing hiv.
Before hiv there wascircumcision there was in the
beginning of time there wascircumcision, exactly, and so I
hear this.
This is not confirmed or denied.
Maybe our theologists canconfirm this.
The first circumcision was doneby god yeah, yeah, true right so
this is something that actuallyuh, that, even when you think

(01:35:44):
about some of the things andthis is even beyond FGM and the
nature being balanced is that weneed to actually get into the
details of the matter, because,for me, I'm a believer that no
one takes good care of anAfrican, of a human, than an
African Before even colonizationand all these civilizations and

(01:36:07):
whatnot women were always apriority.
Women and children even rightnow.
Actually women and children inAfrica before we even knew how
to read and write and, by theway, that's another topic,
because we used to write our ownwe used to keep our own records
which were stolen.
You know, deducted, changed, sodo you think we are following

(01:36:29):
someone's narrative with?

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
this With.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
FGM no, no, no, the whole, you know, imbalance of
human empowerment.

Speaker 3 (01:36:37):
What I can say is because there are people who are
?

Speaker 1 (01:36:42):
taking advantage of the whole process.
I'm not saying women should notbe regarded as equal.
Actually, I've seen good, good,uh, you know, intellectuals,
brilliant ladies, right, yes,and by the way, these ones, they
, they don't write on thenarrative of I'm a feminist, I'm
this and that.
No, no, no, they just put inwork.
Exactly, they, they, they go the, the extra mile they say, when

(01:37:05):
they have, they need assistance,yes, and they always show up.
But then these other caliberyes of of guys who make a lot of
noise, they want to be on theforefront at anybody's expense,
okay, and that's where I thinkwe need to correct that.
And I'm not saying that, youknow, in every process there is
always a correction.

Speaker 3 (01:37:25):
Yes, yes, perfection.
Just put you know the rightperspective, even for a little
girl child that is out there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
True true.
Not to believe that it will begiven to them.
For sure they need to work forit.

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
That's it, and I think also, now that you're part
of this Rotary Club, it's totry and make sure that things
are in a better place, so thatthey are sustainable and all
that.
Yes, true, so yeah, on thatperspective of women culture, as
I said, because they wereintentionally not allowed, To

(01:37:57):
lead.
Intentionally.
Not that they were not capableto, but they were intentionally
not allowed to.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
So the fight has been .
So.
The disqualification number oneyou are a woman.
Yes, just the fact that you areand you can't change that and
you can't change You're bornthat way.

Speaker 3 (01:38:12):
So there was that fight to now intentionally allow
them into spaces, because eventhe church look at the church,
the priests, not women, men.
So it is an aspect that hasbeen playing in society not to
intentionally not to includethem, intentionally, not to have
them there, and so it's allcoming down to it doesn't serve

(01:38:35):
humanity better.
You see what I mean, why so?
Because you know something Idon't.
I cannot claim I knoweverything.
And if this person knowssomething I don't.
I cannot claim I know everything, and if this person knows
something I don't, why would Inot include them into my space
for me to be able to deliverthat which needs to be delivered
?
If this person can add value tome to be able to perform better

(01:38:56):
in life, why not include theminto my space for that to take
place?
Because, at the end of the day,I want to live my life to the
best of me.
You see, remember place becauseat the end, of the day.
I want to live my life to thebest of me.
All right, you see, rememberthe jishinde ushinde.
Yes, defeat yourself for you tobe better, yes, you see what I
mean for you to win, you have towin yourself to win beat
yourself, defeat yourself,discipline yourself for you to

(01:39:17):
win.
Yes, so so it's not an externalissue it's an internal issue.
Yes, so it being an internalissue, and if this person knows
and remember the story I toldyou about a 12 year old, 17 year
old working with the defensesystem to build a stronger
defense.
It's all about inclusivity.
These kids are good.
They are champions.

(01:39:37):
Nobody can beat them.
Why will I not work with them?

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
From that point I understand, but from the virtue
of being a man or a woman, Idon't.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:39:47):
The intentional part of not including them is what
was not making sense.
Intentional Because in thiscase it could also be in the
African intentional thinking whywould I include this child into
this space?
And I'm in the defense system.
You see that narrative is stillthe same Because still in the
African thinking setup there'scertain circles.

(01:40:09):
You cannot sit down and starttalking.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
There's one thing that I want you to understand.
Yes, that I understand.
Maybe you can correct me.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm all wrong.
Right, it's okay.
I totally understand when itcomes to qualification,
competency, capability, yes,that every single human being,
regardless of their gender, race, age and all these other

(01:40:32):
aspects that we mentioned, OkayTo be considered that they are
capable.
For sure, but anything else isjust an agenda, and what that
agenda is going to achieve, Idon't know.
And that's why now I'm lost,because if it's a matter of you
know, we want to include womenwithout even regarding if
they're capable or not, or evenmaking them ready to be capable.

(01:40:55):
That's a whole issue.
But also there's this argumentthat says they're not capable
because over time decade anddecade.
We have not prepared them to beready.
So is the intention to preparethem to be ready or the
intention is just to have them?
Because if the intention isjust to have them, then of
course you are creating anotherproblem of imbalance whereby

(01:41:17):
we'll have maybe less competency.
For sure we have seen, evenwith our MPs and governors right
now already it's not even twomonths.

Speaker 3 (01:41:27):
Already we have issues with the counties and
even what they're discussing youfind it's really irrelevant.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
But I'm not saying, all women are like that, it's
because maybe that woman is notreally capable to do this, or
maybe their intention to do thisis different from what actually
could help other people, so wehave to get that out of the way.

Speaker 3 (01:41:47):
Qualification should be the aspect of it.
If this person is capable to dosomething, give them the job
for the betterment of thesociety and the system itself,
because, at the end of the day,that's what makes America great,
by the way, because Americawill welcome you, and that's why
you have people like ElvisMwenda Kibiti helping with
building technologies in thatcountry, because that system has

(01:42:09):
been built.
Whoever is good, I don't carewhere you're from You're from
Pluto, mars, whatever Jupiter,but you're good in this.
Please, this is your home.
Make it your home.
In fact, you make your citizenimmediately.
The point is they appreciatethe excellence of work.
That's why people like AkinaElon Musk were able to reach the
extent they've been able toreach, whereby they're working

(01:42:31):
with the Air Force on SpaceForce.
This is a citizen.
This is not a person who wentthrough military, but he's a
civilian who's proved he has thecapability they don't have.
So they bring him to the table.
We will work with you becausewe want to be the best in this
world and if you have what wedon't have, we want you to be

(01:42:52):
part of us Because, at the endof the day, it's about the best
version of us, the competency,the skill, the talent.
We want to be better than thatcountry.
We don't want you to go to thatcountry Because if they see
this, they will take you andthat will make them better than
us.
So we want to be the best wecan be.
We want not our 67%, we want tobe our 100.

(01:43:14):
And if you make us reach that100, we want you.
So that should always be thebottom line Preparation and I
think that's why this um girlreach out has been because, if
you look back, that is from theclub uh, oh no, you're talking
going back to the club isdifferent now that was a
deviation.
Oh, I see that was a deviationon the history of where it's

(01:43:36):
come from and where we are rightnow, and it was just based on
how culture has been over theyears.
Now, talking about the coursesfor Rotary, the courses for the
Rotary, we have education.
So equity in education,ensuring that all men get
quality education, all men andwomen all humanity gets equal

(01:43:58):
education in every part of theworld.
You do agree that that isdefinitely not in existence.
Definitely we can even testifythat there are places here we
don't have schools andclassrooms in our own country.
The other day I was listeningto an interview for the new um,
the new mp for wajir south Ithink it was, and he was talking

(01:44:19):
about them him needing 300teachers immediately just to
kind of create a bend.
You know a mark?
To be able for students to havesomebody to teach them.
They don't have teachers inWajir.
In Wajir.
He said they don't even have aniota of TAMAC.

Speaker 1 (01:44:37):
In Wajir there are no teachers.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
Right, leave alone even teachers.

Speaker 1 (01:44:40):
There's not even TAMAC right now in this.
How much did they get for thiscounty thing for the last?
I don't know, maybe 10 years?
There you go, there you go, wecome back to that now,
devolution has not beenperfected.

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
It is a good cause, but it has not been perfected,
which means accountability hasnot been to the level it needs
to be whereby don't take ashilling.
That belongs to the government.
Leave it alone.
Let it do its purpose, its work.
If you look at the Westernculture, a good example where I
lived, the US, is that youcannot even touch a shilling

(01:45:11):
will cause you to be prosecuted.
Not even that If I cannot reachmy own counselor, trust me,
that counselor will be impeachedJust because my child cannot.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
You have to be reachable.
You impeached Just because mychild cannot.

Speaker 3 (01:45:23):
You have to be reachable, you have to be
reachable, I put you in officeto serve me.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
I put you in office.
You are my employee.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
I employed you my tax money is what's paying your
salary.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
No, it's true, it's the reality of it, it's
practical, it is the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:45:39):
Yeah, it's the truth.
Whatever you're using in termsof your car expenses every
morning is money.
The public is paying for yourexistence, literally for those
five years.
Your existence is from ourpockets, so why should I be
unable to reach you Startingfrom there?
That's a very good question.

Speaker 1 (01:45:59):
People change numbers .
Right now call your counselor.
Tell me if you can get themJust after they won or lost
whichever counts first, they areno longer reachable.

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
I agree to that.
But also that brings the pointof the people we elect we
ourselves we are the ones whoput them in office.
Why are we putting them inoffice?
Do we know what we want beforewe put them in office?
Because, if we know what wewant before we put them in
office.
Because if we know what we want, it's easy for us to ensure the
right person is in office.

(01:46:30):
So initially it boils down todo I know what I want?
Do I know how to get what Iwant?
And is that what I did?
Because of this, what happensis we put people in office
concerning pressure, influence,because I don't know what I want
.
Good example For example, I gostart one business in that
corner, that part of the world,that particular corner.

(01:46:53):
I start a hardware store.
Give me two years, we'll have 20hardware stores on that same
line.
Yes, why.
People are not thinking out ofthe box.
That's my point.
Yeah, I'm going with what thisand that and that and that
person did and they made thisand this money.
Why don't I do the same andmake the amount in pastes?
And this brings the aspect alsoof lack of collaboration lack

(01:47:15):
of call it's competitive and alot of competitors.
That's the point, because whatwould happen if that person
opened a hardware store and itdid?
Well, I come back, I do mymarket survey.
Yeah, if he's selling that andhe's making this margin, it
serves me best to see what valueaddition he needs for his
clientele to start a businessthat will add value to his
business and not kill his marginand kill my margin.

(01:47:37):
Yeah, that's where we aregrowing together as a society.
So if he's selling all thiskind of concrete, I I sell
something.
He doesn't sell that hisclientele.
Once they come from this shop,they will feel almost like a
mandate to come to my shop tocomplete what they want as a
unit.
So it's an issue of that aspectof collaboration and not

(01:47:58):
competitiveness.
And, as I said initially,rotary Club, coming back to it,
it was formed by professionalsto identify the needs and once
they identify the needs, theywork as a unit towards
eradicating whatever, or rathermitigating, or rather supporting
systems in place to ensure thatis achieved.

(01:48:18):
So they have different courses.
Yeah, they have the motherchild care, which has been an
issue for years and years,taking care of mothers, prenatal
, postnatal care, which was alsoan agenda of the previous
government, because we saw whatthe first lady the former first
lady.
Her initiatives were towardssupporting maternal issues child

(01:48:39):
issues.
And then another is improvinglivelihoods.
We have to improve livelihoodsby ensuring there's equity.
Whatever, what are the gaps inthe society?
Whatever those gaps are, thenwe as professionals, we come
together as professionals tooffer our skills to support that
agenda, Support that agenda.
I'm not coming as a person whookay, yeah, definitely that adds

(01:49:01):
strength to it, but I'm notcoming representing a company,
but I'm coming with theobjective of that company to
support this agenda.
We're all common on a parttowards meeting a need.
So it becomes our drivingfactor is we're kind of filling
in the gaps which are not beingfilled in.
For example, you know like,maybe the government is finding
a challenge to fill this and theprofessional world is not able

(01:49:23):
to reach this because they arenot coordinating well with the
policy makers.
So where can we enable theentire process in order for this
to be achieved, for the societyto be better?
Remember, at the end of the day, our goal is what?
A better society for humanity.
That's what our goal is.
So, whatever the needs are, wecome as professionals, policy
makers, whatever our capacity isteachers.

(01:49:45):
Because, you know, as I said,education is one of our pillars.
So the teachers in that sector,they know where the gaps are,
they know what needs to be done.
So how can we work with theteachers to enable this and this
process in the CBC to beperfected?
So that becomes so, so thatbecomes so.
Rotary is all about.
We have those seven pillars.
There's the wash systems.

(01:50:06):
You know clean water,sanitation, and you know one of.
Right now I'm the internationalservice project director for
what you call Lavington EcoRotary Club.
Lavington Eco Rotary Club isthe first eco-based Rotary Club
in Africa.
We are the first one to startone Because environment was
never an agenda under the RotaryClub in Africa.
We are the first one to startone because environment was
never an agenda under the RotaryInternational.

(01:50:28):
They only had six pillars.
So number seven we addedenvironment.
And the purpose of addingenvironment is because it's
critical to our existence.
It's even part of the UN SDGs.
It's what ensuressustainability of communities
and society.
Taking care of that.
We need the ecosystem, we needthe biodiversity, we need oxygen
.
For oxygen, we need trees.

(01:50:48):
For trees, we need good soil.
For good soil we need all.
It's a whole chain.
So environment was critical, sowe add.
And so Lavington Eco Rotary Clubin Kenya was the first in
Africa, yeah, where I served asa project director in the last
year.
Our year starts in July,beginning of the year until June
and then another year begins.
So in the last year I was theproject director.

(01:51:08):
Now I'm the internationalservice director, of which I
also sit under what we callESRAG.
Esrag is now the National Bodyon Environmental Matters under
the Rotary, so it's calledEnvironmental Sustainability
Rotary Action Group.
So it's whereby anybody whocares about the environment,
anybody who has a skill, apassion towards the same

(01:51:30):
ensuring that the environment,the climate, whatever it takes,
the biodiversity is beingpreserved and also mechanics of
ensuring that the populationkind of participating in that,
because participation of allhumans is critical for this to
be a success.
So on the international body.
That's where I sit as theAfrica lead communication

(01:51:51):
coordinator on that, and so mineis to ensure that we reach the
grassroots with the story Notjust planting, but growing trees
.
Let's grow trees because peopleplant, they disappear, it dies,
nothing happens.
Let's have a curriculum inschool that nurtures that in
kids to be able to be plantingseeds, to find joy in that, to
find joy in agriculture.

Speaker 1 (01:52:14):
I'll ask a very important question.
Sure sure.
You mentioned trees.
Yes, yes, I've seen this Inprimary school.
We planted a lot of trees.
I started, which is MotetvyaPrimary School.
Okay, in my formative years ofprimary school.
Okay, okay, but I was notinvolved in harvesting.

(01:52:34):
Ah, okay, harvesting of thetrees.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Yes, yes, are you supposed to harvest the trees?

Speaker 1 (01:52:39):
People harvest trees Okay, the ones I planted, they
were harvested At least.
So do you think this alsodiscourages people to be
involved in such programsBecause this harvesting means a
lot of things.
You're involved in growing innurturing but when it comes to
now, reaping the benefits youare not part of that process.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
Yes, let's put it this way A human being produces
about a carbon footprint of 40something kilograms Through what
.
Through breathing A lot, yourdaily activities.
Daily activities.
You're going to use a car.
This car will travel from hereto here.
There's carbon influence inthat.

(01:53:24):
Your eating habits will alsocontribute to that.
Leaving the lights on alsocontributes to that.
There's a ripple effect to it.
So the tiny, tiny aspects, forexample the clothes that you
have.
At some point they will not fityou, they become tattered and
you decide that the dumpster isa good place for it.
There's no circular economyaround it in such a way to take

(01:53:48):
it back into the economy space,so it's somewhere in a dumpster
line.

Speaker 1 (01:53:52):
You know what I?

Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
mean so various aspects.
We do add to that carbonfootprint, so 40 something.
Let's put it at 42.
Now a tree will take about 50years, 50 years.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Which tree is this?

Speaker 3 (01:54:05):
A tree, any tree.
That's just the generalstatistics.
The indigenous or theIndigenous?
Yeah, indigenous, indigenous.
Okay, it takes a long time, ittakes a while, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
So let me ask this then Should we be planting
indigenous trees or just normalsoftwood tree?
Let's go to indigenous as muchas possible, and Rotary has been
leading this in the district9212.

Speaker 3 (01:54:31):
We have what you call the Million Tree Campaign,
whereby we're advocatingplanting of indigenous trees.
The reason behind it is becausethere's a certain value they do
give to us.
There's a certain biodiversity.
They do contribute to themangroves.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
It's good you've mentioned District 9212.

Speaker 3 (01:54:50):
And Ethiopia's lady Ethiopia's there too.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
He's a president, member of the Rotary.

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
I think he was given one of those honorees because
he's been a champion in that.
Definitely he's doing a goodjob.
It's a good example.
It shows the reason as why Iwas giving you the numbers
towards the carbon footprint.
It's because the oxygen we arebreathing right now it's because
of a tree that was planted 50years ago.

(01:55:17):
50 years ago, the tree is theoxygen we are breathing now.
So whatever tree we areplanting now is not even for us.
Yeah, it's for somebody 50 60years later to have that oxygen.
So it brings down the thing ofwhat we do.
Are we doing it to add value tothe society?
You remember that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
But let me be controversial a little bit let's
go for it so the oxygen onlycomes from the tree, or the
oxygen exists.
We just ensure that we maintainthe you know the cyclone of of
it, so it doesn't escape.
After you know, the outer layeris depleted by a couple yes,
yes, we found oxygen on earth.

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
that's why we existed .
And when we found oxygen, wehad enough trees, the system of
breathing, mechanics of it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:08):
So this is interesting because also I'm
curious enough to know werethere deserts Back then.

Speaker 3 (01:56:14):
Yeah, deserts were there in existence.
I believe they were there inexistence.
They were built with the earth.
I believe deserts were therebecause they contributed to a
certain ecosystem.
There was balance Point isthere was balance and imbalance
has been created by man, wherebywe are more thinking of
industrialization kicked in.
So we need more sand, we needmore soil.

(01:56:36):
We need to construct morebuildings.
We have need for this.
We do more mining.
We do the quarries, we leavethe quarries open.
So there's a lot that humanityhas contributed towards that
imbalance.
We are cutting trees why?
Because you want charcoal, andthat brings the aspect of now
the thing of bioethanol becominga trend.

Speaker 1 (01:56:57):
But there's lumbering , so it's not only charcoal, but
there's lumbering.

Speaker 3 (01:57:01):
Yes, now, with the lumbering aspect, it has to be
controlled.
Now, the lack of controlfactors is what's causing the
certification.
You see, it's an issue of, asyou said, we always need a
leader to lead for there to beorder in the society.
The rule of law has to be thereto ensure balance is in
existence, because earth itselfworks with laws.

(01:57:21):
Yes, it works with laws.

Speaker 1 (01:57:23):
Do you know?
I feel like there's only onesolution.
You can tell me what Rotary isdoing.
Okay, Because you said it'sgoing beyond planting trees.

Speaker 3 (01:57:32):
Yes, yes, selflessness, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:35):
Because if you're selflessness, you're not selfish
.
Yes yes.
And you care about others andwhat is happening to the
environment?
Yes, and your mind is aligned.

Speaker 3 (01:57:46):
Even cutting a tree will take a lot of consultation
and also you mitigate how, if Icut one tree, do I?

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
plant.
Five do I plant?
One and all that and how longit will take to grow, so that
next person who wants to cut atree, they can have it.
So does Rotary have a programto even educate people around
this?
Empower people about this.

Speaker 3 (01:58:16):
We do the advocacy aspect Now, like Loving Tonico
Rotary Club.
Remember we have the Rotary, wehave the Rotaract and then we
have the Interact.
And then what?
Us guys?
We have taken it a step further.
We are going into primaryschools.
Remember 4K Club was revivedand it's good it was revived

(01:58:36):
because there's that learningaspect from that level that
becomes a habit later on in lifeFor Kay.
You see, the nurturing aspectis good also.
What I mean by it's good alsoto humanity itself, because as a
child, if I know how to nurturea tree, take care of a tree,
pour some water, do some weedingaspect.

(01:58:57):
I'm learning nurturing skills,which means, when it comes to
dealing with the human beings,the same skills are transferable
.
So there's a learning thatyou've been doing.
We started what you call theEco Clubs.
We have eight schools we'veadopted in Nairobi and we
started with Kawangwari PrimarySchool.
Kawangwari Primary School wehave the non-plastic use.

(01:59:18):
We have damsters for plastics,we have damsters for all others,
even organic, and also we havea compost pit.
We teach them how to be able tocreate compost pits using
gardens to promote what we callorganic farming, as in kind of
deviating them from thinkingthat you have to use chemicals
to grow food.

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
Yes, gmo.

Speaker 3 (01:59:39):
Exactly.
The point is.
We're trying to tell them thatyou can easily grow nutritious
foods, consume nutritious foods,and this has a health effect to
basically becoming more healthy.
Now, for example, I'm also partof a campaign that is fighting
type 2 diabetes in Kenya.
I'm part of a data think tankand an organization called

(02:00:00):
Gordan that's leading in theDirectorate of Research and
Innovation in the Ministry ofAgriculture, whereby we created
a curriculum, and thiscurriculum is to be able to show
the linkage between agriculture, health and education and
ensuring that linkage is inexistence.
Why?
Reason behind it is becausethere was a time, a period,
whereby only four students hadregistered to study agriculture
at the University of Nairobi.

(02:00:21):
Remember, it's University ofNairobi.
Why?
Because the youth, youngpopulation is not seeing the
need to study agriculture yet.
This is what forms 33% of our.
GDP, which means something islacking, which means something
is bound to happen not good forpopulation.
That's growing.
Lack of food, it's going tohappen.
Malnutrition is already inexistence.
Now we are pushing the envelopefurther, because if you don't

(02:00:42):
have people to advise thefarmers because with devolution
something was never devolved,and that is extension services
so you find, uh one.
Most of the farmers don't knowif they have an extension
service.
They've never seen one afterdevolution.
They've never seen one, and ifyou go to those offices, they
tell you that they don't havethe facilitation to do that yeah
there's an appointed person,but that's 1 to 5,000 farmers.

(02:01:05):
So you find that most farmershave never seen somebody coming
to their farm to tell them yoursoil is not good, your soil
cannot grow this.
You need to grow this.
This is where the market is.
This is what you should focuson.
Plant avocados, plant this,plant this.
This is good for your soil.
It doesn't exist.
So my point is we are notenabling the the percentage,

(02:01:28):
which is 33 to grow if anything,we're pushing it down yeah
which means now another aspectcomes into play the youth.
The youth are running away fromit, because when you think about
farming, you think aboutpoverty yes they grew up in such
families.
Daddy didn't have enough moneyto even buy me a sweater to buy.

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
Buy me shoes to buy me socks, which is very true.

Speaker 3 (02:01:46):
Which is true why?
Because you find that of themargin that is being made in
agriculture, a farmer is onlymaking 2%, 98% is going.

Speaker 1 (02:01:55):
Sometimes they make negative.
That's my point.

Speaker 3 (02:01:57):
That's my point, because by the time you pay off
your loans, you can't evenafford anything else left.
It's a sad story.
So, which means that sector hasnot been enabled to empower the
farmer and, as Lavington EcoRotary Club, that has been also
one of, and even as RotaryInternational, even as ESRAG.
One of the pillars is calledimproving livelihoods, and

(02:02:18):
that's one of it.
How can we improve thelivelihoods of these communities
?
What are the gaps, what are thechallenges?
How can we ensure there'sequity in the society?
So those are things that needto be addressed Now, when coming
to the linkage, it's an issueof interest how can we have
agriculture technology in place?
Because if you're talking ofthis generation, you have to
find a way to link the relevanceof their schooling with what's

(02:02:40):
in the field, the marketplace.
What does the market need?
We need soil testing mechanicsthat will not take two weeks.
It will take two days it willtake 15 seconds, of which one of
the youth that I worked with atKenyatta University was able to
build.
He built a soil testing kitcalled Shamba Assistant that
gives you results in 15 secondsas opposed to two weeks, and

(02:03:01):
this is something you can have,you can own, you can have it in
your house or a cooperative canown, so when a farmer has it,
they can easily lease out fromeach other, enabling another
whole business aspect,commercial aspect to come into
play.
So, at the end of the day, asyou can tell, we as Rotarians
look to see where can we enableequity in the society For the
farmers.

(02:03:21):
What can we do?
Agroforestry how can we helpyou to be able to, to, to
nurture nature?
and still, you know, produce thekind of food that's needed
because, 37 percent of our soilin kenya is degraded, and sadly
to say so.
So if it's degraded, then whatkind of quality of food are we
producing?
yeah is it good for exportmarket?

(02:03:42):
It's not good, for why?
Because it doesn't meet thisand these standards.
There's a farmer know this,they don't know this.
So you see, so as Rotarians, wecome together to kind of mark
out, map out what are thedeficiencies to enable this
equity in the society, to enablehumanity to continue growing

(02:04:03):
and existing.
So, as I said, LevingtonEcoFocus was environmental
matters, everything to do withthe environment, not just
growing trees but ensuringthey're nurtured.
So for each student in eachschool, we give them a tree to
grow with.
So this is your tree and wehave mechanisms, measures, in
such a way that we do monitorthat.

(02:04:24):
Now, the plastic waste, theyput it together somewhere.
There's a company that comes,collects and pays for that
plastic.
That money goes back to thestudents to have what you call
free food, free lunch.
I see, so it becomes a wholeecosystem that's enabling itself
.
They're taking care of theenvironment.
And guess what?
The money that's coming out ofthis.
Guess what's happening.

(02:04:45):
It's feeding them, it's meetingtheir needs as students.
We don't have enough pencils,enough books, we don't have kids
, don't have sweaters.
Guess what?
This kit right here, as aresult of your effort to add
value to your own environment.
We will take care of thatproblem for you.
So we are working as a teamcollaboration here.
You take care of that problemfor you.

(02:05:06):
So we are working as a teamcollaboration here.
You take care of that.
Let's find a way for this totake care of you.
Excellent, you see what I meanyes.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
I think I get the point.
Yes, yes.
If someone is listening.
How do you join Rotary?

Speaker 3 (02:05:18):
Rotary is easy.
In every region there's aRotary club.
As I said, we have differentpillars.
We have the education aspect,we have the child and mother
care, we have the wash aspectand then also now we have the
environmental aspect that wasadded.
Improving livelihoods isanother aspect of it.
We have Rotary Clubs that haveeven started circles in
communities to enable thosecommunities to be able to build

(02:05:40):
themselves instead of waitingfor a handout from the
government.
We have Rotary Clubs, like herein Nairobi.
Lavinton Eco is working withthe CBO Mau Mau, and also it's
working with the they're called.
There's a CBO called Mau Mau inKawangore, not the original one
.

Speaker 1 (02:05:58):
I think that Mau Mau name should be patented so that
people stop misusing it, becauseI think that is misusing it.
Every time I hear Maumauthere's something that comes to
my mind.
So when?
I hear there's Maumau.

Speaker 3 (02:06:12):
Anyway, go on, it's okay.
It's okay.
Just pointing out now a club is.
There are different clubs.
There are 133 clubs.
You're free to join In Kenyaclubs.
there are 133 clubs you are freeto join, and so the point in
Kenya there are 133 clubs in thedistrict, in the district that
is, kenya, ethiopia yes, yes,yes, so you are free to join the

(02:06:35):
one that is in your locality,like in Nairobi, I think we are
about 4 or 5 clubs, so you willfind in.
Maybe Kiambo.
There is Moranga.
You go to Kisumu you go toMalindi.
The charges.
Each club has its ownrequirements.
Now the one that where I serveas a director just 15,000 yearly
fee is needed, and that'sbasically to add to something

(02:06:58):
called the foundation.
There's a foundation pot.
The foundation is to collectmoney from different clubs in
order to be able to Remember,we're all fighting the same
problem, we all meet in the sameneed and that's why we all
collectively came together.
So whatever we contribute asindividuals, as clubs, goes to

(02:07:18):
that cause, in addition tosupporting what you're doing at
the local level, also on theglobal level.
So what happens with that?
The Rotary also has grants,because we do get support from
different institutions.
We work with governments, wework with the private sector.
Remember, it's all enablingmeeting a certain need in the
society.
So there are those grants.

(02:07:39):
For example, now when we areapplying for a grant and we need
more money than we ourselveshave collected as a club, we go
to that port and apply for agrant and remember the port is
global, it's not just local.
So we apply there and then weget.
I know they spent about 87.5million last year on grants US

(02:08:00):
dollars or Canadian, that was USdollars, that was last year
Across the global.
So, which means you can tellthat a lot is happening on the
ground.
So this is what contributes tothat.
So there's that value additionof the network you kind of get
from the club.
You get I mean, we have allmembers from our offices, from

(02:08:21):
the office of the president tothose in the AU, to those in the
UN, like the work that you'redoing as Lavington Eco Rotary
Club.
You're working with UNEP in thecleanup of Kiricho River.
We started somewhere just tocreate a demo example of what
can be done with that community.
Part of that because we have toteach them to take care of
their own environment, and so weinvolved NMS at that time,

(02:08:46):
because there's a time that eventhe president himself the
former president put a mandate,an order for Nairobi, the NMS,
to be able to take care ofcleaning up of the river.
It's something that has to becontinual because we have
informal sectors, we have housesbeing built along the rivers,
so it's an issue of now.
Urban planning comes into play,because you know sad stories

(02:09:06):
when we were cleaning thoserivers, do you know we were
finding medical waste in thoserivers, which means there's a
hospital.
That's dumping, absolutely.
So implication is, laws are notbeing.
They're there but they are notbeing followed, which means
enforcement becomes anotherwhole, different story
altogether.

Speaker 1 (02:09:20):
And to be fair, by the way, we need to fix our
drainage.

Speaker 3 (02:09:23):
Big time.

Speaker 1 (02:09:24):
Yes, because you know , we can put all these
well-sounding policies talk butif we don't implement some of
this?

Speaker 3 (02:09:33):
and it's not rocket science, it's easy.

Speaker 1 (02:09:36):
In Nairobi, drainage is becoming a menace.

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:09:41):
You know you go to the airport.
The drainage is leaking.

Speaker 3 (02:09:44):
You go to the airport the drainage is leaking.
You go to the street drainageis leaking.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
Lovington itself drainage is leaking can we find
a proper way, because once wesolve that, then we reduce even
what goes to the Nairobi river,and then start maybe emphasizing
and empowering people andeducating them the importance of
garbage.
Not only that, but also evensome of the funds that we have,

(02:10:08):
or the avenues that we have toget this.
Can we have garbage?

Speaker 3 (02:10:13):
collection points which are reachable, because
I'll be honest with you if thiswas implemented really well no
one in their right mind wouldthrow garbage anywhere whereas
there is a place to dump it.

Speaker 1 (02:10:27):
If you travel from here to.

Speaker 3 (02:10:28):
Nakuru, for example how many places you can get to
throw your garbage Unless youstop in a petrol station, but
you can have these things alongthe highway or even in the
vehicle itself.
That becomes a habit.
But think of it this way and Iwant to be fair to even the
people with the that becomes ahabit.
It has to become a habit.

Speaker 1 (02:10:44):
But think of it this way and I want to be fair to
even the people with thevehicles and all that Gotcha.
That if say a bus which has 100people traveling from here to.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:10:54):
Nakuru, nakuru.

Speaker 1 (02:10:55):
Okay, if each of those thrills a teen or
something what kind of damagecollection you need right,
Exactly so we need to also,since government puts things in
place and I think, even privatesector can contribute to this.
Yes, I see people like you know, telcos, I'm sure even Africa
Stocking all these you know,private companies.

Speaker 3 (02:11:17):
Yes, can we also help out in terms of how do we
ensure that you know such?

Speaker 1 (02:11:23):
things are implemented.

Speaker 3 (02:11:24):
Yes, yes, it's possible.
I remember when I was growingup, we had city council.
We had city council beans.
I don't know which year youwere born, but in my time we had
city council beans.
They were metallic.
Every house had one.

Speaker 1 (02:11:37):
I wasn't born in the city, so I don't know if you
understand that.

Speaker 3 (02:11:41):
But in the city itself, nairobi city council we
had bins and they were metallicand they had scheduled days of
being picked up and emptied.
At some point I don't know whathappened to Nairobi City
Council that stopped we hadpeople who were sweeping roads
every single day.

Speaker 6 (02:12:00):
This was then when I was growing up as a child.

Speaker 3 (02:12:02):
So later on, when I started seeing it's going,
things are not people realizethey could harm without working
that's what they realize becauseif the corruption is at the top
, then,

Speaker 4 (02:12:12):
it trickles down if you're getting your billions
there I'll be getting my 10k,whatever, without doing anything
so.

Speaker 1 (02:12:20):
I think it's more of accountability discipline from
the top, because, and again, Irepeat what I was trying to put
across here Human or the natureitself it has to be balanced
right.
Like if you see, if you are thehead of the house, for instance
, if your kid sees you're doingsomething, not saying it doing

(02:12:42):
it, of course they will do it atsome point.
They will If they see yousaying something they will say
it at some point, but let'sstick to the doing.
So, even our leaders that youhave elected the leaders who are
appointed, because leaders areeverywhere.

Speaker 3 (02:12:56):
We need to serve by example.
Yes, right.

Speaker 1 (02:12:59):
And everything will follow.
It might not happen on theground the way you see it at the
top, but it will happen in away that actually will affect
even at the top.

Speaker 3 (02:13:07):
I agree also.
Yes, I agree, yeah, sodefinitely there's a
responsibility that starts fromthe top and there's that push
and engagement that forces thetop to do what needs to be done.
Yes, so if things don't workout the way they're supposed to
be in a certain society, certaincommunity, certain neighborhood
, if we ourselves come togetherfrom people in that neighborhood

(02:13:28):
and do something about it, ithas a ripple effect of growing
and growing to a point whereby,by the time this leader is
coming to look for my votes, wehave a voice.
There's something I cannotbuild in Runda Estate.
There's a certain house Icannot build in Karen.
Why?
Because the people in thatneighborhood association will

(02:13:52):
not allow it.
They are working as a community, as a family.
This is our standard.
We have to maintain this.
This is us.
I mean they cannot allowskyscrapers in places.
They cannot allow skyscrapersin places.
They cannot why?
Because they themselves haveidentified what needs to be done
and what needs to be inexistence and what cannot be

(02:14:12):
allowed.
They know that.
So the point is grassroots doeswork and it's far much more
effective.
If the top-down doesn't work,the bottom-up has a way of
forcing the top down doesn'twork.
The bottom up has a way offorcing the top down to work.

Speaker 1 (02:14:28):
Does this now boil down to leaders without a title
whereby everyone takes theposition?
Of trying to provide the changethey seek.
Yes, but you see, I feel likethat is distributing the blame
and not the power.
Because, you know, when youexpect everything from everyone,
you get nothing from no one.

(02:14:49):
You know that right.
This is scientifically,psychologically everything.
We also need to be careful withthe bottom-up approach, whereby
we like.
Even someone actually said thisand I think I relate to it.
Yes, yes, when there wascampaigns, it was bottom up.

Speaker 3 (02:15:07):
It was the border guy , the mamboga and everyone.

Speaker 1 (02:15:10):
Yes, yes, but now that they you know someone is
getting this docket.

Speaker 3 (02:15:13):
We didn't see that.
We didn't see that happening.
To be honest, yeah, we sawbillions.
We saw billions rewarded, right.

Speaker 1 (02:15:19):
And even those who, in one way or the other, got
there in one way, they didn'tget it right so we need to be
very honest, because even I'mnot advocating that someone who
was not qualified should havebeen appointed, or I'm saying
that we have smart guys likeengineer Felix.

Speaker 3 (02:15:37):
We have other people so many of them that we know,
but they never get there becausecertain politics, so we need to
be very honest with ourcomposition.
Not only in Kenya, by the way.

Speaker 1 (02:15:51):
It's everywhere, because once we do that, we're
able to manage our resourcesbetter we're able to plan,
better we're able to implementbetter Because everyone is
living purpose driven life.
That's something I think peopleneed to get to align with to an
extent that we are way forwardthinking

(02:16:12):
as opposed to backward thinking,and what I mean by this forward
thinking is like what willhappen 60, 50, 100 years from
now, because we need to stoprepairing right now.
As you said, it's like a treeIf we plant one here, yes, it
will be harvested, it will help,it will be all these advantages
will be seen in the future yes,but what you are living right
now is a microwave results yes,put in five seconds you get

(02:16:36):
something that is ready.
I see what you mean, but howhealthy, yes, how important that
is yes, so maybe even now thatyou're in a position of
influence with the road tracksyou have your experience.
You're an maybe even now thatyou're in a position of
influence with Rotaract you haveyour experience.

Speaker 3 (02:16:46):
You're an engineer, so you're doing all these things
.

Speaker 1 (02:16:50):
It takes collective approach?

Speaker 3 (02:16:52):
Yes, it does.
I agree to that Honest.
Collective approach is nothonest and that's why I asked
this intentionally.

Speaker 1 (02:17:01):
We plant we grow, but who harvests it?

Speaker 3 (02:17:04):
That was a trick to make us think outside the box.

Speaker 1 (02:17:08):
It's true If we plant together, let's harvest
together.

Speaker 3 (02:17:13):
Let's know that this is for all of us.
That brings something ofinterest.
This is the carbon credit.
The carbon credit is amechanism of rewarding, awarding
, planting of trees or doingthings that are promoting the
good existence of nature andhaving monetary value attached

(02:17:36):
to it why it's of interest rightnow.
It's an economy on itself.
We have the Paris Agreement, wehave the Kyoto Protocols and
Agreement and the point is itwas realized that there has to
be an incentive for people toget engaged in that.
As you said earlier on, I plantthe tree, but who harvested?

(02:17:59):
How did it benefit me or thecommunity?
If I know that this tree Iplant, I'll be getting a certain
monetary value out of it bynurturing it.
Do you know?
I will be watching this treetill the day I'll pass it to my
child to keep watching itbecause there's money coming out
of it.

Speaker 1 (02:18:20):
That's how I knew my trees were harvested without me,
because every time I passedthat primary school I used to
keep track of how tall is it?

Speaker 3 (02:18:30):
Is it doing well?
Do I need to involve myself?
But I realized also after somepoint, when it was big enough,
because maybe 15, it was asoftwood tree 15 years you can
harvest it.

Speaker 4 (02:18:42):
So I realized, okay, they are younger trees, but now
the bigger ones are no longerthere, and I understand by the

Speaker 1 (02:18:49):
way because they used them to build.
When I was there, the classeswere wooden.
Ah, okay.
So they upgraded to storage.
What do you call these?

Speaker 3 (02:19:00):
Shelves.

Speaker 1 (02:19:00):
The one that are made using stones.

Speaker 3 (02:19:02):
I see what you mean here Right, so they use those as
a pillars rather than buyingthe hood.
I see, I see so.

Speaker 1 (02:19:08):
I totally understand, but at least they could have
you know find a way to say youknow what we appreciate?
You guys planted these trees.
This is what it has done, andmaybe we could have even planted
more Contributed Exactlyprocess is very, very important
and that's why you see when theprevious government, that was
the first government toimplement- 2010 constitution had
a lot of problems withconsultation and public

(02:19:30):
participation, because we assume, because in leadership.
We are the bosses, and it'ssupposed to be.
We should be the servants.

Speaker 4 (02:19:39):
And every time and I'm not saying that in every
nitty gritty thing.

Speaker 1 (02:19:42):
You need to call the whole constituents and ask them
what they think.

Speaker 6 (02:19:44):
All I'm saying, saying that in every
nitty-gritty thing, you need tocall the whole constituents and
ask them what they think.

Speaker 1 (02:19:45):
What I'm saying is that be as involving, be as
transparent and also embracefeedback.

Speaker 3 (02:19:54):
That's a point.
In fact, in Mangu High School,of all the Catholic schools in
Kenya, we were rewarded forhaving the best environment
program.

Speaker 1 (02:20:03):
We've nurtured, so many trees.

Speaker 3 (02:20:05):
In fact even the cooking aspect is all renewable
energy, because we are embracingthe issue of carbon footprint,
having as less as possible inthat environment and also the
school having an ecosystem thatkind of takes care of itself.
We are not planting to cut, weare planting to ensure there's

(02:20:26):
enough oxygen.
For sure, the aesthetic appealof it.
Also, the soil is good enough,because I mean the trees do
contribute nitrogen to the soil,so which is good for farming
aspect, we have the agriculturestudents who can be able to kind
of father up on that one.
So the point of even startingfrom the primary school to teach
them those habits in such a waythey can is, you see, they say,
train a child and then whenthey're of age they will still

(02:20:49):
always come back to it.
Yes.
You know other than just runningaway from it.
Yeah.
Because what you know is whatyou do, yeah, and that becomes
their normal.
So that's why Levington Ecoschools, which has been
impactful in some way, as youcan tell, the monetary value
that comes from the plastic soldis feeding them.

Speaker 1 (02:21:06):
The school feeding program.
So they see the importance ofcollecting the plastic bottles,
they see the value.
Actually they can collect themfrom somewhere and bring them
here to get more money, for sure.
You see, what I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:21:17):
And that's what I was talking about the incentives of
the carbon footprint, thecarbon credit.
Right now I know a carboncredit can go up to $300 per
carbon credit, which is one tonof carbon dioxide.

Speaker 1 (02:21:27):
How do you measure that?

Speaker 3 (02:21:30):
There are many ways of doing that measurement.
For example, if it's maybemotorbikes, you know these
motorbikes produces this forthis amount of fuel.
So instead of putting this fuel, what about if it's an electric
bike?
Then how much of that CO2 haveyou prevented from going back
into?
The air.
There are certain trees, likethe mangroves.

(02:21:51):
They produce more oxygen andthey absorb more carbon dioxide.
There are measurements for that, there are algorithms set in
measuring that, and there areinstitutes and there are bodies
that are certified to ensure thecredibility of that, and the
institutes and their bodies thatare certified to ensure the
credibility of that.
So, there's a whole systemsurrounding the credibility of
the measurement in such a waythat even communities can come

(02:22:12):
together.
In fact, the pilot down in thecoast of Kenya, in Mombasa,
there's a group that was growingmangroves and a certain
organization which was a pilotwas successful and whatever CO2
was being kind of measured thatis being absorbed by these trees
, the mangroves, the money isgiven to that society, that

(02:22:32):
community, to build themselves.
So, it becomes an incentive thatwhatever we are getting from
these trees is monetary valuethat we can use as a society, as
a village, to build that thingwhich we need in order to
improve our existence, toimprove our livelihood.
So the monetary value isimportant.

Speaker 1 (02:22:53):
But that can only grow in coastal regions, right.

Speaker 3 (02:22:56):
That's the mangrove water bodies.
Yeah, but now we have mangroves.
They promote 10 times morebiodiversity.
That's why they have greatervalue than other trees.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, they promote more, theyabsorb more CO2.
Carbon sequestration isabsorbing of CO2 into the soil,
so they do much of that comparedto other trees.
So that does not negate thatthe other trees can also need to

(02:23:18):
be planted, because there's avalue they're giving too, do you
?

Speaker 1 (02:23:21):
think a government initiative, like what Rwanda is
doing with the electric cars.
You know, I understand.
Also, if you buy a more newercar, it's zero taxation and
there are more new cars inRwanda than any other place in
East Africa.
Also, there are more electriccars in Rwanda than any other
country in East Africa.
It's a pretty small country,but it's really noticeable.

(02:23:44):
Even motorbikes, because theyuse a lot of border borders and
motorbikes so such initiatives,how can we scale them, even with
these districts and whatnot?

Speaker 3 (02:23:54):
Easy, easy, easy.
In fact, right now we have anumber of organizations
promoting the same in Kenya Useof electric motorbikes.
We have, like the EcoBorder,there are so many of them.
It's an issue of what kind ofincentives can they get to
continue that industry.
Manufacturing industry, youknow manufacturing industry.
They are heavily taxed.

(02:24:14):
So if there's a way, you knowthe reason as to why we started
having so many motorbikes on theroad it's because there's
tariffs that had been removedfor them to be imported, and
also when it came to the solarpanels, and that's why Kenya,
right now, 90% of our energy isrenewable energy.
So there was a time solar panelswere coming without being taxed
.
I don't know what it is rightnow, but such kind of incentives

(02:24:36):
promote that kind of behaviorand it's good.
Now Rwanda can easily claimthat you see, the number of
vehicles we have are this, andthey all use this, and the kind
of size of engine they have isthis, and therefore the amount
of carbon dioxide that is notbeing produced by these cars is
this amount.
You see that calculation iseasy and so they can easily
claim because you see, if theyare part of the Paris sign

(02:24:58):
agreement, you can easily cometo now Google.
Tell Google these are thecarbon offsets we have.
Can you buy them from us?
Because all the companies thathave signed up, like Shell, we
have all these companies thathave signed up to be able,
because this is how much carbondioxide their manufacturing
sector does produce.
So they have to come up with away to reverse that.

(02:25:18):
And since they cannot grow allthese trees and see they still
have to continue, maybe usingcoal to some level, then they
come and buy carbon offsets fromthese organizations, these
countries, these companies thesecommunities so they put the
money there in order to justifythem to continue doing the stuff
that is, avoiding co2 in theair yeah you see what I mean I

(02:25:39):
see what you mean

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
yes, yes and uh, without further ado.
This brings us almost to aclose.
That was a very good, goodconversation, uh.
That needs to what needs to behappening constantly, and I
would like, as any other guestI've invited here, uh, to give
us a parting shot mine is easymine is easy the environment we

(02:26:04):
live in, um let's find a way toto make it better yeah it
doesn't take too much.

Speaker 3 (02:26:09):
Um, people still have the habit of throwing things
everywhere and anywhere.
Um, take a habit, a habit ofbeing conscious of what you
throw where you throw I knowsome things people have learned
over the years since they werekids.
But it takes one person, twopeople, three, three people,
four people to be conscious oftheir environment.
We all want a better environmentand it's not the work of the

(02:26:29):
government to do that, but it'sour own responsibility to ensure
we have a better environment.
So let's join Rotary Club orjoin the efforts of other people
like SRAG, which is aninternational body, and who are
enabling that ecosystem and thatbehavior to continue.

Speaker 1 (02:26:47):
Amazing stuff that was Engineer Felix Karioki.
And this is Africa's TalkingPodcast.
Africa's Talking CustomerConversations.
Africa's Talking PowersConversations across Africa.
We empower the communicationbetween businesses, governments
and organizations of all sizesand their customers or citizens

(02:27:10):
on our SMS, ussd, airtime andvoice gateways and APIs,
ensuring that Africa Stalkingsupports GDPR data compliance.
Communication on our futureready customer solution, our
data platform called Illyrian.
And, in collaboration withImpact Masters, bringing you

(02:27:31):
impact conversations around techecosystem with Africans who are
making moves, shakers, anddoing it actually.
Not just talking about it, butjust doing it on the ground.
And each and every other timewe converse, we try to influence

(02:27:51):
and change your mindset inthinking Not only thinking, but
believing that Africa should bethe leader in every angle,
because we got it.
We have the talent, we have theskills.
We just need to believe inourselves.
Thank you so much.
Until next time, I'm your host,michael Kemadi or MK, if you

(02:28:12):
want.
Thank you.

All Episodes

#36 - Eng. Felix Kariuki

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#36 - Eng. Felix Kariuki