December 13, 2023 • 39 mins
www.inthedollworld.com In this wonderful episode of In The Doll World, I am joined by Azhelle Wade, the Toy Coach. Her journey to a key figure in the toy industry is an incredible testament to the power of passion and commitment and her love of teaching and being creative.
Embark on Azelle's journey as she shares her reasons for leaving corporate life to pursue her dreams. Explore the challenges and misconceptions of entering the toy industry, enriched by Azhelle's valuable insights. Discover the Toy Creators Academy, a platform designed by Azelle to support and guide emerging toy creators, offering a wealth of resources and industry insights.
As our conversation deepens, we explore the crucial issue of representation and inclusivity in the toy industry. Azhelle opens up about her experiences as an African American woman in the field, highlighting the rise of black-owned toy companies and her aspiration to create black dolls. We wrap up with an inspiring discussion about fostering entrepreneurship and expanding toy culture. So, grab your headphones, tune in and let's embark on this fascinating journey into the world of toy making.
To find out more about Azhelle , The Toy Coach or the Toy Creators Academy visit
www.thetoycoach.com
#thetoycoach #toycreatorsacademy #ITDW #inthedollworldpodcast #dollpodcast #georgettetayloritdw #dolls #toys
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn World, a
show spotlighting the passionand the people of the Dawn
community With your host,georgia Taylor, former vice
president and co-founder of BigBeautiful Dolls.
Join her as she talks tofascinating doll artists,
customizers, avid collectors,redesigners, authors and all the
people in between, as theyshare their journeys, give us
(00:27):
glimpses into their processesand will propel their passion
and drive to help keep the dollworld moving and shaking.
Welcome to the show, helloeverybody, and welcome to In the
Dawn World.
I'm your host, georgia Taylor,and, as always, I'm so excited
to have you join me for a newepisode and I'm so excited about
the guests that I have today.
(00:48):
She is an amazing person in thetoy industry and today we have
Gell Wade.
She's also known as the toycoach.
She's a former toy executive,she is a three-time patented
eventor, she's an educator andshe is the host of the
award-winning Making In the ToyIndustry podcast.
Thank you so much, gell.
(01:08):
I'm so glad that you joined us.
Thank you so much for being inthe in the Dawn World with me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, hey, georgia.
And hey, toy people listening,hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I would love you to share your background and your
journey when you're from and howyou got started in the toy
industry.
I think that's a fascinatingindustry.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure, yeah, I actually studied toy design, so
I took a quick shortcut directlyinto the toy industry.
I loved kids.
Since I was growing up Ithought I wanted to be a teacher
.
I would teach my littlebrother's school.
I remember my mom once got methis like school kit and it just
came with all the things, soyou could just be a teacher.
And so I just made him go toschool in the summer, which he
(01:48):
hated, but I loved it.
He hated it, I loved it.
I would give him his gold stars.
It was lovely.
That is funny.
When I grew up, I met a womanwho had this incredible
portfolio it was actually anexhibition and design portfolio
and I asked her.
I was like where'd you go toschool?
Because just what she wasmaking looked like fun to make.
(02:10):
I was like you did that, youmade that display, you built
that thing.
I was like that looks so cool.
So she went to the fashionInstitute of Technology and she
studied display and exhibitiondesign and I just really liked
her as a person.
So I was like I'm going to dothat and so I followed her
footsteps and then, when I wasthere, everything I made, every
(02:31):
time they gave us a project.
I would make it kid focused.
So we had to do like a museumexhibition and I did the
Children's Science Museum and Imade like an exhibition that
looked like a twister game in,like a big white tent, and I
made like a bubble exhibit.
And I didn't really notice thateverything I was doing was so
(02:52):
like I don't know why.
I just wanted to make kidsstuff, I just liked it.
And one of my teachers told mehe said you know, there's a toy
design program here and I waslike what's that?
And he was like, yeah, likethere's a whole industry, you
can be a toy designer.
And I was like that doesn'tsound like a real job.
No way, I was like that's notreal.
And it was.
And so I met the founder ofthat program, Judy Ellis, and
(03:15):
she took a liking to me, I thinkin my hardworking spirit,
because you know I was like Iemailed her and I was like hello
, I need to be in this program,what do I need to do?
And, like you know, really gotinto it and she's lovely and I
went into that program.
They had an amazing jobplacement rating.
I got placed at a job calledHorizon Group USA, a company
called Horizon Group, USA, andthat's where I got my first, my
(03:38):
three patents, and that's how itall began my toy journey.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That is so cool.
I would have never thought thatthey had something like that.
Right, that is so cool.
So when you were able the factthat you said that they had such
a great program to put you intoa job type of position, yeah,
and you started working forthose jobs Did you find it to be
a little bit different thanwhat you learned in school?
You know, it's always thatthing oh, I have all the, I
(04:04):
learned all the stuff and thennow I got to work.
Is it the same type of processfor you?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
For me it was very different, but it yeah, but it
was also the company that Iworked for at the time.
They were, they were forming anew innovation team.
So I got, I got the privilege,but at the time it felt it felt
like not a privilege, but I hadthe privilege of being on a team
where nothing was planned Like.
(04:31):
They were like we want you toinnovate this area, but we are
not going to tell you how to doit.
You kind of get to make it allup.
So I remember at first therewere a few months where I was
like I don't know, what do youwant from me?
And then, luckily, I had a bosswho was leading our team now a
dear friend, but a boss at thetime who just was very open to
(04:54):
my opinions.
So I would bring some of thethings I did from school, like
the way that I did marketresearch mostly market research
actually and say this is how weused to research things in
school.
Do you think we should do itlike this?
And he'd be like all right,yeah, try it, go ahead.
And then I would just do it,and then people would like it,
and then I would just do itagain, and that's how I got
(05:17):
started.
So just trying to make up therole, figure out where I can add
value, what made people happywith what I was doing?
Yeah, and it was not what Iexpected.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, I'm sure it's probably just getting thrown
into the den there.
It's like, oh my goodness, Ihave to actually figure this out
.
So when you went to all theother companies that you worked
for, were you in the sameposition there?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
No.
So after Horizon Group I wentto a small company called
Blumenthal Lansing.
They were a button companyprimarily and they wanted to
break into arts and crafts.
So at Horizon my whole careerwas focused on making arts and
crafts products.
The patents I have are arts andcrafts toys.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah.
So then I go to BlumenthalLansing and I get to just again
create what I want to create andwe would design entire programs
of buttons and button craftsand plush to pitch to all these
major stores like Joanne'sFabrics and Craft was one big
(06:23):
one and that was a lot of fun.
I got like a full of what theycall like an end cap placed of a
product line that I created.
That was great.
And then I got my dream job andthat was.
Toys R Us, oh nice.
Yeah, I remember the day that Iwent to tell my boss like I'm
leaving.
I got another job.
She was like no, and I was likeI know.
(06:46):
And she asked she said is thereanything I can do to convince
you to stay?
And I was like it's Toys R Us.
It's Toys R Us.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I mean I'm sorry, it's Toys R Us, so you know, had
to go.
I get that.
So did you develop brands andstuff at Toys R Us?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I led.
So I was the director, I wasthe general manager for design,
I think they called it.
Oh, the design manager, that'swhat they call it Global design
manager at Toys R Us for theirgirls' world brand.
So that was Journey Girls, youand Me, happy Together, just
Like Home Baby, so Sweet andTotally Me.
(07:25):
And so my job was to make sureeverything looked the way we
wanted it to look.
So we would have team meetingsand we would talk about like the
line lists, Like what are wegoing to pitch for spring 24,
let's say.
And then they'd say, ok, we'regoing to do a $5 item, a $10
item, a $20 item, these are whatthe items are going to be.
Design team, go design it.
So then I would divvy up thework with myself and people
(07:47):
overseas and my assistant at thetime and we would say, ok, you
do this, I'm going to do that,the China team is going to do
this, and we would work onthings.
Send it overseas, get samplesback, review samples, make
things at a foam core.
Sometimes we would make likeplay sets at a foam core first
before we sent them over it wasa lot of fun.
I love like to this day myfavorite job Really.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Favorite job?
Yeah, so cool.
I mean you, you've had somereally great opportunities and
some really beautiful companies,but you decided to quit that I
did Exactly Right and go somestuff something of your own.
So what was the catalyst behindthat?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
That was this woman, karen Karen, a woman named Karen
I don't want to say her lastname because she doesn't want me
to say that Karen R.
She met me at a toy industryevent and she had a game
invention that she really wantedto place, and I was in a
position where I could havehelped her make it real.
And she didn't know quite whatshe needed to show me, and so I
(08:49):
wanted to help her, but I was sobusy with my job At that time.
I was the VP of brand andproduct at a company.
I just didn't have time.
Like I had gotten her email.
We emailed a couple of timesback and forth, but I didn't
have the time to adequately helpher.
And I remember thinking in thatmoment gosh, I wish there was
just a resource I could directpeople to like this podcast,
this thing, this blog.
(09:10):
I actually first thought thisblog and that just was sitting
in the back of my mind.
And then, years later, thepandemic happens and
everything's turned upside down.
I start working from home.
The first thing that triggeredthis, I think, was realizing the
cost of living in New York andworking outside of New York,
(09:30):
because I had to cross a bridgeand come back into New York to
where my job was, and I justrealized how much it didn't make
sense.
I was like I'm not spendingnearly any time at this home
that I'm paying to live in, I'mnot having any of my own
personal time, and it was justat that point that I was like I
think I need to do somethingdifferent.
(09:51):
You know, I think this is thetime.
So I had already started thispodcast.
I had gotten the blessing of myboss.
I'd started this podcast tohelp people, and people were
reaching out for opportunitiesto work with me.
So I took on some opportunities, I started working and then I
decided I'm going to quit my job.
Actually, I quit my job beforeI took on the opportunities.
But I got the opportunities andI was like, hey, this is enough
(10:13):
where I can make ends meet,leave this job and then go
forward.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And so I took that leap.
It was terrifying.
I had to write my resignationspeech like 20 times before I
had the nerve to say it.
I was so scared.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I could imagine yeah, I could imagine Terrified, yeah
, terrified Especially living inNew York.
You know you got to actuallyafford to live in New York.
Uh-huh, it was rough.
Yeah, I'm sure that was, butyou found a lot more joy, though
, I think, in what you do.
Well, I mean, you mentionedthat you found joy before, but I
think it's just a differenttype of joy.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think the main difference is working so hard
for your own dream versusworking so hard for someone
else's.
And that is what, and you knowwhat.
It's a privilege to be able todo that, and I've learned even
more now, being three years in.
It's a privilege because it'snot easy to be your own boss.
I have so much respect for thelast company that I worked at,
(11:09):
because that was a family ownedcompany.
Oh wow, and I'm like I don'tknow how they did it.
You know, I'm like they startedfrom nothing.
Just like me, you know it's,and they were huge multi-million
dollar company.
So yeah, you just, I respectthis journey.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, it is a hard road, that's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, be really tenaciousand really believe.
I think, in what it is thatyou're doing.
You know just all out, like nomatter what happens, like I
still have to believe what I do.
So, since you get theopportunity to speak with other
people who want to be in the toy, you know the toy business what
is.
I think, what is one of themost misconceptions that people
(11:50):
have.
You know being in the toyindustry.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Like there's different levels because, like
being in the toy industry, inthe corporate side, people's
misconceptions are usually thatyou get to kind of design
whatever you want, that it'sgoing to just be you being
creative, designing things andseeing what happens.
It's not that I know.
Even when I described it itmight have sounded like that,
but there are always parameters,whether it's cost parameters or
(12:18):
design parameters.
There was one time I remembermy assistant and I designed a
dollhouse and we spent hoursdoing it and then the person who
was leading us on that projectwas like no, no, no, no, we want
, we want you to start over andwe had to, like start from
scratch the next day.
And you know that happens inthe when you're working in the
(12:39):
corporate side of the industry.
What you envision is not alwayswhat's going to go to market.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right, okay, I think maybe one of the misconceptions
I believe, I don't know, I'm notin that space that you're in.
Yeah, it's the cost, right, yes, talk about the cost of some of
those things you know.
I mean, okay, I heard you onanother show talking about how
expensive it is to create a doll.
I know that from personalexperience.
You know creating those threeladies back there, but please
(13:07):
share.
You know the cost, I guess, ofcreating a toy or creating a
doll.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, yeah, I mean, I've gotten quotes for dolls
where you might pay five toeight hundred dollars for the
mold of a doll's head.
But if you have like a fullyarticulated doll wrists and
knees and ankles, and you knowelbows and everything you could
be looking at a super expensivemold cost of $70,000, you know,
(13:35):
with the head and everything.
So that is something thatpeople don't realize.
You have to design with cost inmind.
I try so hard to teach my TCAToy Creators Academy students
that, like, cost is everything.
So what I tell people that wantto start their own toy
businesses to do is don't startwith the plastic doll item.
(13:57):
Well, specifically, don't startwith the doll and then don't
start with plastic if you don'thave to.
So if you can start with aplush or start with paper based
goods, because the cost is goingto be a lot lower.
What really sells product,especially today, is the brand
behind it.
So you want to spend your timebuilding product that you can
(14:19):
sell under a brand and you canmake sure that you're building
up that brand recognition andbrand identity and loyalty.
And then, once you have thatfollowing, you have those
supporters you're like, okay,I've got enough people behind me
.
These people are want somethingelse.
I'm going to go into my dolldevelopment line.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, and I think it's sointeresting because people will
always say, oh, just make a doll.
Or even when I'm talking tothem about my doll that we did,
oh, just make a doll.
And I'm like, yeah, the cost isso ridiculously high Because at
the end of the day, you have tomake sure, like you said, you
(14:57):
have a market margin to buy that.
Oh, in the market, yeah, in themarket and you can't just you
can't sink $70,000 intosomething and then have them to
produce two dolls.
I mean, that's the right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
They will not.
There's a minimum.
They're not going to do twodolls Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So the minimum sometimes is very high as well.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yes, the minimum is high too.
Minimum is very high.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So when you create a toy, something that's not a doll
, you create a toy are theystill very high when it comes to
minimums?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, it's still high .
I mean like plus.
Usually you'll see a thousandunits will be the minimum.
Oh, okay, you might findsomeone who will go down to 500,
but just be wary of thosefactories.
They might not have all theright certifications, safety
certifications, and then plastictoys.
There's a side of it that mostpeople don't know or think about
(15:51):
.
There's an entire open marketcatalog of products.
So when we go so there's anevent called the Canton Fair and
that's essentially like I don'tknow think of a I don't know
think of like a trade show justfor factories.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But it's like in China, right.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So that's where you can find what they call open
market goods.
Now, open market goods are aregoods, are like plastic goods
you could buy without having topay for the mold.
Doll bodies, doll bodies thatyou could buy without having to
pay for the mold.
They're just, they already havethem produced.
They'll have a big batch ofthem.
(16:28):
You could buy these units,these individual pieces, and
build your own toy off of them.
So oftentimes for craft kits,open market is what we use.
So open market.
So like I might have, like Idon't know, like a bracelet
making kit and I might get openmarket thread for the bracelet
kit, I might get open marketbeads.
None of that stuff is custom,it's customized.
(16:50):
When I bring it all togetherand I package it for my unique
brand, that's a great way tostart out.
So and I did have a client oneswho did a custom doll head
because the the mold cost forher was like $5 to $800 for the
head and then she just used anopen market body.
So you could use a standardbody.
You're only paying the per unitcost for the doll body.
(17:11):
That unit cost could be $2 to$5 maybe depending on the size
of the doll right and the andthe detail spray you want on the
doll.
Then you get your custom headand you get your clothes.
It's still not cheap, but Imean it's.
It's a lot cheaper than doingyour own custom mold right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, okay, all right.
Wow, I never knew about openmarket.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's great yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I did not know that?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So one of the things I would say if someone's talking
to a factory and they'relooking, they're considering
creating a mold of whatever itis they're making, let's say
you're making oh.
A great example of this is I'mworking with a client right now.
They're making a vehicleproduct.
They they have a vehicle thatis has a very specific wheel
type Right, but in order for usto mold those wheels, it's going
(18:02):
to add a lot of cost.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
A lot of cost Right, because that's a separate mold
right, it's a separate mold andwe're already molding the
vehicles custom, right, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So what we're doing instead is we're adjusting.
We had the factory look for allthese wheels.
They literally sent us a photoof piles of wheels and we had to
find the wheels that look asclose to what we want as
possible.
And then the factory is helpingus adjust the design, the model
of the vehicle itself so we canmake it work with open market
(18:31):
wheels.
So we have this custom body andwe'll have these open market
wheels.
The challenge with open marketis, you know, you got to hope
like they stay in stock right,because if something happens you
might have some changes.
But that's actually a greattime to bring up that.
You'll see a lot of craft kitswill say there's a line, and
then that says like contents andcolors may vary.
(18:54):
Because sometimes a bead likegold will change a little bit.
Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, okay, all right .
Now, when you talk aboutquantities, I mean, do you go
there and they have like ahundred, or do they have like a
thousand, or they have 10,000?
I mean, what is the?
It ranges from?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It ranges they could have thousands, but you just
never know how many they'reselling.
You know open market meansanybody can use those.
You don't know how many selling, they're selling and you don't
know how many they'll keepmaking until they're not making
them anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, All right, I get that.
That's cool.
I never even knew that that'sso cool.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
But that's what you're here for.
That's what you do, that's whatyou do.
That's what you do so well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So let me ask you this you became the toy coach
and then you started creatingthe toy creators Academy.
What is the difference betweenthose two?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The toy coach and the toy creators Academy.
Oh, that's a great question.
No one ever asked me thatbefore.
No one's ever asked me thatbefore.
So the toy coach was like aname I gave myself because I
knew people wouldn't remember agel and they wouldn't be able to
say it and they would beconfused.
So I was like, okay, if I'mgoing to try to do something,
which was my podcast, I needpeople to remember it.
(20:07):
We're going to call it the toycoach.
It's going to be by the toycoach.
So, when I first came out, Ididn't even use my face, I
didn't use my name.
I was a mysterious personcalled the toy coach.
So the toy coach is somebodywho puts out this free content
into the world to help people ontheir toy journeys.
There's a podcast, we havemaster master classes.
That is what the toy coach isall about.
(20:29):
Toy creators Academy is a paidprogram offered by the toy coach
, so it used to be a 12 weekprogram and is now turned into a
12 month program.
Wow.
So yeah, and the price is notthat high.
It's super cheap, anyway.
So for now I'm going to tell younow, when you're listening to
(20:49):
this episode, the price.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, next year .
Don't find the episode andthink Next year, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Don't try to come at me.
Okay, right now the price isaffordable Anyway.
So, no, no, it's very, it'svery well priced, honestly.
So toy creators Academy is a 12month group coaching program.
You have access to nine modulesfilled with, like all the
information that I've gottenover my toy career understanding
(21:16):
how to work with factories, howto design a toy product, how to
understand the market, and it'sconstantly being added to and
developed, so it has resourcesfor factories and freelancers
and trade show booth buildingand how to pitch to toy
companies.
And then at the end of theprogram, at the end of the year,
let's say we have a virtualpitch event.
(21:39):
And we're also going to bescheduling our first in person
pitch event, so it's going to bevery exciting and what we're
doing is we you pitch to toycompanies and you pitch to
retailers.
The whole idea is that your,your product is ready, you're
trying to pitch it for licensingor you want to pitch it for
placement.
And the way we structure the 12months is whenever you join TCA
(22:01):
you can go through the programand binge it like your favorite
Netflix show, or you can kind ofgo slow and try to go along
with us.
So, starting in October, Icover module one and we do a Q&A
all about module one.
In November, we do a Q&A allabout module two and so on and
so forth.
So we get to June, we're inmodule nine, and June is also
(22:24):
the time of one of the biggesttoy trade shows.
So that is how we structure it.
So we all kind of feel likewe're on this journey together.
But there's also an onlinecommunity, that we have TCA
alumni, so you can get help fromthem and from me, and it's a
it's a great program.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, it sounds like an amazing program, which I, you
know, had a toy I was thinkingabout because I would be all
over that, you know well,everybody says they don't have
ideas before they joined TCA,they have ideas after, because
something that people joinedwith.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, the people that joined without ideas are always
like oh my gosh, I had so manyideas going through module one
and two.
Or the people that joined withone idea say I started this with
one idea, but now I have a newidea.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That is so cool.
That is so cool.
I love that.
I love this.
Okay, good, so everybody canjoin.
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and we do have a refund policy.
So if you really find that toycreators Academy isn't right for
you, there is a refund policy.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
That's pretty cool.
So you've been in.
You've been in toys for a longtime now.
What, what do you find the mostfascinating part about the toy
industry?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Um, the most fascinating part?
Yeah, I mean I don't, thisprobably isn't a good answer.
I mean I love, I guess, okay,no, I would say, the most
interesting part is going Okay,let's, yeah, you want me to ask?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
that question.
Ask that question again.
What do you find?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, no, no, no, no, because I'll because there's two
, because there's two sides,because I would feel like the
most interesting part isprobably the factories.
Like when I go and see toysbeing made, even to this day, or
if I get a video from a factory, I just think it's so cool and
weird and like, just like it'sso interesting that this is how
something comes together Likeit's and it's just crazy.
(24:07):
But then the other side of it isthat I love that we can write
toys off in our taxes Becauseit's research, you know, so I
can play with anything right?
Yeah, I mean, but it literallyis like if I have to buy
something for a show segment orfor or for like a content for my
course it's a it's, it's work,it's work, it's work, it's so
(24:31):
true that is never, thoughtabout it like that.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It's great.
So when you were growing up Iknow you were a teacher, I know
you were, you know, having classwith your brother Were there
any kind of toys that you reallyliked, where there's like a
specific toy that you reallylove and what would?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
you like, I was obsessed with Polly Pocket, but
I also really liked the quints,like the little tiny they're,
like these little babies youwould put in the.
I just love children.
I don't know what was happeningwith me, but yeah the little
quints.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, the quints and Polly Pockets.
That's pretty cool, okay.
So one thing I do want to talkabout you being African American
woman in the toy industry.
I cannot not talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, sure, go ahead, go for it.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I know you definitely have been in many rooms when
you're probably the only onethere.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How has that been for you, and have you seen
representation grow within thetoy industry, and, and if so,
has it really been slow or doyou feel that they're moving at
a really good pace now?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I think there's definitely an increase in
representation in the toyindustry.
I think largely, a large partof it is due to us, as other
black women who are coming outwith these brands.
That cannot be ignored.
I don't necessarily see a hugepush from the majors, like you
(25:57):
know I mean, but that being said, you know there are a lot of,
so they're more independent.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
you're saying More independent?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, it's more independent, Like the majors,
now have to cater to everyone inall these different cultures
that they were kind of allowedto ignore before because society
said that was okay, and so nowyou know it's hard to say are
there enough black dolls?
Because are there enough Asiandolls Are there enough.
You know there's so many other,but the amount of black owned
(26:25):
companies that have come out andthen have gotten major press
and won awards like TOTI awards,which is the toy of the year
awards, is I mean I've neverseen anything like it.
I wish that I could be a partof it.
In that way, I feel, oh, onething people don't know when you
work a full time in the toyindustry, you're not allowed to
(26:46):
work on other projects.
Most jobs don't allow you towork on other toy designs that
they don't own.
So I remember I had severaldoll ideas for black dolls and
at the time I didn't think theywere so revolutionary.
Yet today I see them being doneand I'm like oh my gosh, I love
seeing this being done, but Ido wish that I could have done
(27:07):
it too.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So yeah, I think it's .
I mean, I'm looking right nowat I don't know if you heard of
Dr Lisa.
I've heard about her on theshow.
Of course I've heard about her.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I love that, so she sent me some gifts.
Nice.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And this bow baby doll oh my gosh, so cute.
So the bow baby doll.
What I love about this is sheput Dr Lisa patented a lock
technology for hair so thatdolls can have actual locks, not
braids that look like lockslike for real, for real lock
hair.
And that has never been donebefore, and Dr Lisa told me that
(27:47):
she fought for this.
It was something that thefactories didn't understand and
they're like oh no.
But you have to fight for thesethings and the fact that there's
a company big enough andpowerful enough that can fight
for something like that likelocks.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm just I know, especially with all the
controversy continuing all thetime about hair, I know.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I want to have locks.
Look how cute her locks are.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
They are adorable, they are so cute.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
She's got lime green bangs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I know she does, but Dr Lisa is doing amazing things
in the doll industry.
She really is, and she'samazing.
So I'm working on getting herback on the show because so many
things have happened since Iinterviewed her a year and a
half ago.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, she's doing her thing.
She's a busy lady.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I'm so excited about that and I'm just so excited to
have you in that space becauseyou're so needed to be able to
guide people that don'tunderstand that process and to
be able to share informationwith people who don't have that
kind of money to get the thingsthat they want to have happened
for themselves.
I know when I was doing that'slike the olden times when I was
(28:56):
doing my dolls, you know 2000.
Like what is that?
But you know?
But what we found to bechallenging is there was just
nobody out there that we couldreally reach out to.
Yes, yeah.
You know, it was just sodifficult to find anybody out
there especially people of colorthat was doing that.
So I'm just excited to have youin that space.
You know to be a young woman inthat space that can help guide
(29:19):
other entrepreneurs in the toyindustry, because it's a huge
industry.
And what I love about what youdo, too, is that you can you
mentor them through that process.
You also not just mentor them,you give them ideas, you have
them look at things differently.
Yeah, you know, and that's whatI love about what you do, thank
you.
You have been bringing so muchknowledge to the table about.
(29:40):
You know ways for them to dothings that they have never seen
before, and I just want tothank you so much for being a
representation of that.
It's just so needed, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you so nice.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You're so welcome.
You're so welcome.
So the Academy has started.
What other?
Do you have any other programsthat you're going to be
launching?
I know you're busy, but do youhave?
Any other programs you're goingto be launching.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, no, I do have an accelerator version of TCA.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, so if you are just like, I love this, ajal,
but I want to work with youone-on-one, there is an option
for that.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, that's TCA accelerator.
So it's a six-month version ofTCA, so you get everything that
you get with normal TCA, plus me, and it's essentially like
having a coach, like on-call, abusiness partner, on-call.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Like you can say like what's this?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or like what do you think about this, you know?
Or what have the factory said?
They can't do this.
What should I say?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You know things like that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And I do communication with my students
through WhatsApp, probablybecause I want to encourage them
to get WhatsApp, becauseWhatsApp is the key tool you
should use to communicate withfactories.
Like most, yeah, whatsapp andWeChat.
So, yeah, I use WhatsApp sothat I can connect with my
people during TCA acceleratorand kind of follow up with them.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
I did not know that.
See again just something elsethat we don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
We're just so much more in TCA.
I know that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Have your own speed dialysis.
That would be great, right,that would be so cool.
So how are you expanding?
Also, you're expanding the toyculture.
I know you're continuing to dopodcasting, but is it going to
expand into anything else?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I want to do things, but I need to expand just this
first.
So right now, because everytime I look to add something
else to my business, I have tolook at how it either brings new
people to TCA or it helpspromote the people that have
graduated.
So the things that I'm focusingon adding right now are more to
promote the people that havegraduated.
(31:45):
So I'm looking to do morescholarship programs.
We just had one with Dr Lisa tobring two people into the
program, and then I am creatingmore opportunities for pitch
events in person and virtual sothat more people can pitch their
ideas.
And now we're looking topartner up with a bunch of play
cafes across the United Statesso that we can get students'
(32:08):
product placed there.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I'm just constantly looking for ways to
promote their product.
Yeah, I was going to ask youhow do you do marketing for them
?
I mean, because in your programI'm sure it's just not.
Hey, let's just get a productand that's it.
You go about your business.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Marketing is yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Marketing is key.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So, yeah, I teach a little bit of marketing, I teach
the way that I market in thisprogram.
And then I have pitch events.
Like, of course, my pitchevents are either an extra fee
or we have percentage options,because it is extra work.
Like I review your products.
It's not just like here's alist, go contact them.
It's like I review what you'regoing to pitch, I give you
(32:48):
feedback and then I coordinatethe meeting with the right
companies for you so that's likethe extra pitch event.
That's only for TCA grads butthere is an extra fee for that
pitch event and yeah, and that'sjust what we do.
I just try and I try to sharetheir stories, like if I can get
them on my podcast, if I canwrite a blog post about them.
All TCA students have access tothis link, which is essentially
(33:11):
submitting for a blog article.
So, they can submit theirfinished product or, if they've
gotten a license, they cansubmit their story.
So we can look at it and see ifit's a good fit to put on our
blog and we'll put it on ourblog and then that will build
their SEO and then they can usethat blog to promote themselves
and just help them get startedfaster.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, that's amazing.
You do a lot for them, which Ithink is beautiful.
I think, it's really a greatopportunity for anybody who
wants to create a toy to reallyreach out to you honestly,
because I don't think you everget that one-on-one or even that
walkthrough or just theconnections that they'll get
from.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
The connections are everything.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
The connections are everything they really are.
So wow, thank you so much fordoing what you do.
I really appreciate that.
In the toy world.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So excited.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So you know, as being a serial entrepreneur such as
you are, I know you've learned alot of lessons about resilience
and also adaptability.
So how do those qualitiesreally contribute to you being
in the toy industry and buildingyour business?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh man, yeah, resilience is just like keep
going every time we get a no.
Like I know my students pitchideas and I try to tell them
like try not to take those no'spersonally.
And I tell myself the samething, because I get no's too
when I'm trying to get fundingfor the program for them, when
I'm trying to get them placed,when I'm trying to get on TV to
show their product.
(34:39):
I get no's all the time.
So I mean, like when I'mgetting my students to go out
there and pitch their ideas, Iknow they're getting no's too.
It's just the remind for me.
Actually I do a couple ofthings.
I have one.
I just look at my testimonialssometimes.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You gotta look at what people that love.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, look at the people that love what you're
doing and just remember how muchyou help them, and I tell my
students to do the same thing.
Look at their customer feedbackand what people think of their
product, and that will keep themgoing.
And then the second thing Iactually got this tip from I
don't know some self-helppodcast where they said take a
photo of yourself as a kid andput it and like, print it out
(35:20):
and put it somewhere you can seeit.
And you'll just anytime you aretrying to give yourself negative
self-talk, you'll look at thatpicture and say you're negative
self-talking, that little girl.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know yeah, and then you feel, yeah, right, it
gets you.
That's so weird.
I literally just saw myselfthere and me thinking about me
saying really negative things.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So that would be not pretty cool.
Yeah.
So then you give yourself grace, you're like, look at that
sweet little girl, I know Likeyou're, like she's a sweetheart,
she's fine, she's a sweetheartRight oh, wow, that's really
great.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
That, wow, that's a great piece of advice.
No, it really is.
I think that that would touch alot of people.
I think, because, you know,it's always that little kid that
needs to be reminded andsupported and loved.
That's really cool.
So would that be the same typeof, I guess, inspiring thing
that you would tell otherentrepreneurs, regardless of
what space they're in?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, I mean yeah, limit that negative self-talk.
I mean I know, I feel it allthe time.
I you know doing something, thebigger you go the easier.
It is to be hard on yourselfbecause you're doing more, so
there's more to criticize.
But you just, you know, Iremind myself every day Like I'm
not good at being nice tomyself.
(36:36):
I have to remind myself everyday.
I'm like you know, you're doinga good job, everyone is fine,
everything is going great.
Okay, you know you're workinghard.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, because you know we're all humans and we all
go through that, no matterwhere you're at or whatever
level you're at.
And I think a lot of peopletend to, you know, think that,
oh, because somebody is up herethat they always have it
together.
They always know what they'redoing, and that's you know
that's not the case.
We all suffer from that.
You know imposter syndrome everyonce in a while, you know even
no matter how much you know goodwe're doing in the world.
(37:09):
So, yeah, thank you forreminding us about that.
Well, I want to thank you somuch, a'jelle, for being on In
the Dawn World with me.
It's been so exciting and youare just so awesome and I'm just
so happy to have you in the toyspace.
I just cannot even express howhappy I am to be that you're
there.
So can you just share witheverybody how they can get in
contact with you, all thosepeople now who are running to
(37:30):
make toys and hook up with you.
I'm just Happily.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Happily, happily.
If you're interested in ToyCreators Academy, go to
toycreatorsacademycom, and ifyou're just interested in my
podcast, go to the toycoachcomand at the top you can click
podcast or in the menu bar ifyou're on your phone and just
listen.
I mean, I would recommendstarting with episode one
because when I first started Iintentionally did it in the
order of development.
(37:55):
But you honestly can startanywhere, close your eyes,
scroll through and just land onan episode.
I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm sure you definitely will enjoy it and, as
a matter of fact, she gave mean episode that I'm gonna check
out and I will definitely dothat.
So thank you so much again fortaking the time and saying yes
to be a guest on In the DawnWorld.
I'm just thrilled, so thank youagain so much.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Thank you for having me, Georgia.
This was really fun.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
You're so welcome, love.
Okay, bye everybody.
Bye, bye.
Hello everybody.
Thank you so much for listeningto In the Dawn World.
I hope you enjoyed the show.
Please don't forget to sharethe podcast with other doll
enthusiasts such as yourself.
They can find us at Facebook,instagram and Twitter at In the
Dawn World.
The show can also be downloadedon all apps with podcasts or
(38:40):
streamed To see videos of ourinterviews.
Please visit our In the DawnWorld YouTube channel and don't
forget, in the Dawn World isalso on Alexa.
Just ask Alexa to open DawnWorld.
Did you know that you can nowleave a voicemail or give us a
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We would love to hear from youor suggest a guest for the show.
You can do all that by visitingwwwinthedawworldcom and, until
(39:05):
next week, add a little playinto your life by collecting a
doll, sharing a doll or giving adoll a home.
And again, thank you forlistening to In the Dawn World.
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn World, a
show spotlighting the passionand the people of the Dawn
community With your host,georgia Taylor, former vice
president and co-founder of BigBeautiful Dolls.
Join her as she talks tofascinating doll artists,
customizers, avid collectors,redesigners, authors and all the
people in between, as theyshare their journeys, give us
(00:27):
glimpses into their processesand will propel their passion
and drive to help keep the dollworld moving and shaking.
Welcome to the show, helloeverybody, and welcome to In the
Dawn World.
I'm your host, georgia Taylor,and, as always, I'm so excited
to have you join me for a newepisode and I'm so excited about
the guests that I have today.
(00:48):
She is an amazing person in thetoy industry and today we have
Gell Wade.
She's also known as the toycoach.
She's a former toy executive,she is a three-time patented
eventor, she's an educator andshe is the host of the
award-winning Making In the ToyIndustry podcast.
Thank you so much, gell.
(01:08):
I'm so glad that you joined us.
Thank you so much for being inthe in the Dawn World with me.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, hey, georgia.
And hey, toy people listening,hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I would love you to share your background and your
journey when you're from and howyou got started in the toy
industry.
I think that's a fascinatingindustry.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure, yeah, I actually studied toy design, so
I took a quick shortcut directlyinto the toy industry.
I loved kids.
Since I was growing up Ithought I wanted to be a teacher
.
I would teach my littlebrother's school.
I remember my mom once got methis like school kit and it just
came with all the things, soyou could just be a teacher.
And so I just made him go toschool in the summer, which he
(01:48):
hated, but I loved it.
He hated it, I loved it.
I would give him his gold stars.
It was lovely.
That is funny.
When I grew up, I met a womanwho had this incredible
portfolio it was actually anexhibition and design portfolio
and I asked her.
I was like where'd you go toschool?
Because just what she wasmaking looked like fun to make.
(02:10):
I was like you did that, youmade that display, you built
that thing.
I was like that looks so cool.
So she went to the fashionInstitute of Technology and she
studied display and exhibitiondesign and I just really liked
her as a person.
So I was like I'm going to dothat and so I followed her
footsteps and then, when I wasthere, everything I made, every
(02:31):
time they gave us a project.
I would make it kid focused.
So we had to do like a museumexhibition and I did the
Children's Science Museum and Imade like an exhibition that
looked like a twister game in,like a big white tent, and I
made like a bubble exhibit.
And I didn't really notice thateverything I was doing was so
(02:52):
like I don't know why.
I just wanted to make kidsstuff, I just liked it.
And one of my teachers told mehe said you know, there's a toy
design program here and I waslike what's that?
And he was like, yeah, likethere's a whole industry, you
can be a toy designer.
And I was like that doesn'tsound like a real job.
No way, I was like that's notreal.
And it was.
And so I met the founder ofthat program, Judy Ellis, and
(03:15):
she took a liking to me, I thinkin my hardworking spirit,
because you know I was like Iemailed her and I was like hello
, I need to be in this program,what do I need to do?
And, like you know, really gotinto it and she's lovely and I
went into that program.
They had an amazing jobplacement rating.
I got placed at a job calledHorizon Group USA, a company
called Horizon Group, USA, andthat's where I got my first, my
(03:38):
three patents, and that's how itall began my toy journey.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That is so cool.
I would have never thought thatthey had something like that.
Right, that is so cool.
So when you were able the factthat you said that they had such
a great program to put you intoa job type of position, yeah,
and you started working forthose jobs Did you find it to be
a little bit different thanwhat you learned in school?
You know, it's always thatthing oh, I have all the, I
(04:04):
learned all the stuff and thennow I got to work.
Is it the same type of processfor you?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
For me it was very different, but it yeah, but it
was also the company that Iworked for at the time.
They were, they were forming anew innovation team.
So I got, I got the privilege,but at the time it felt it felt
like not a privilege, but I hadthe privilege of being on a team
where nothing was planned Like.
(04:31):
They were like we want you toinnovate this area, but we are
not going to tell you how to doit.
You kind of get to make it allup.
So I remember at first therewere a few months where I was
like I don't know, what do youwant from me?
And then, luckily, I had a bosswho was leading our team now a
dear friend, but a boss at thetime who just was very open to
(04:54):
my opinions.
So I would bring some of thethings I did from school, like
the way that I did marketresearch mostly market research
actually and say this is how weused to research things in
school.
Do you think we should do itlike this?
And he'd be like all right,yeah, try it, go ahead.
And then I would just do it,and then people would like it,
and then I would just do itagain, and that's how I got
(05:17):
started.
So just trying to make up therole, figure out where I can add
value, what made people happywith what I was doing?
Yeah, and it was not what Iexpected.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, I'm sure it's probably just getting thrown
into the den there.
It's like, oh my goodness, Ihave to actually figure this out
.
So when you went to all theother companies that you worked
for, were you in the sameposition there?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
No.
So after Horizon Group I wentto a small company called
Blumenthal Lansing.
They were a button companyprimarily and they wanted to
break into arts and crafts.
So at Horizon my whole careerwas focused on making arts and
crafts products.
The patents I have are arts andcrafts toys.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah.
So then I go to BlumenthalLansing and I get to just again
create what I want to create andwe would design entire programs
of buttons and button craftsand plush to pitch to all these
major stores like Joanne'sFabrics and Craft was one big
(06:23):
one and that was a lot of fun.
I got like a full of what theycall like an end cap placed of a
product line that I created.
That was great.
And then I got my dream job andthat was.
Toys R Us, oh nice.
Yeah, I remember the day that Iwent to tell my boss like I'm
leaving.
I got another job.
She was like no, and I was likeI know.
(06:46):
And she asked she said is thereanything I can do to convince
you to stay?
And I was like it's Toys R Us.
It's Toys R Us.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I mean I'm sorry, it's Toys R Us, so you know, had
to go.
I get that.
So did you develop brands andstuff at Toys R Us?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I led.
So I was the director, I wasthe general manager for design,
I think they called it.
Oh, the design manager, that'swhat they call it Global design
manager at Toys R Us for theirgirls' world brand.
So that was Journey Girls, youand Me, happy Together, just
Like Home Baby, so Sweet andTotally Me.
(07:25):
And so my job was to make sureeverything looked the way we
wanted it to look.
So we would have team meetingsand we would talk about like the
line lists, Like what are wegoing to pitch for spring 24,
let's say.
And then they'd say, ok, we'regoing to do a $5 item, a $10
item, a $20 item, these are whatthe items are going to be.
Design team, go design it.
So then I would divvy up thework with myself and people
(07:47):
overseas and my assistant at thetime and we would say, ok, you
do this, I'm going to do that,the China team is going to do
this, and we would work onthings.
Send it overseas, get samplesback, review samples, make
things at a foam core.
Sometimes we would make likeplay sets at a foam core first
before we sent them over it wasa lot of fun.
I love like to this day myfavorite job Really.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Favorite job?
Yeah, so cool.
I mean you, you've had somereally great opportunities and
some really beautiful companies,but you decided to quit that I
did Exactly Right and go somestuff something of your own.
So what was the catalyst behindthat?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
That was this woman, karen Karen, a woman named Karen
I don't want to say her lastname because she doesn't want me
to say that Karen R.
She met me at a toy industryevent and she had a game
invention that she really wantedto place, and I was in a
position where I could havehelped her make it real.
And she didn't know quite whatshe needed to show me, and so I
(08:49):
wanted to help her, but I was sobusy with my job At that time.
I was the VP of brand andproduct at a company.
I just didn't have time.
Like I had gotten her email.
We emailed a couple of timesback and forth, but I didn't
have the time to adequately helpher.
And I remember thinking in thatmoment gosh, I wish there was
just a resource I could directpeople to like this podcast,
this thing, this blog.
(09:10):
I actually first thought thisblog and that just was sitting
in the back of my mind.
And then, years later, thepandemic happens and
everything's turned upside down.
I start working from home.
The first thing that triggeredthis, I think, was realizing the
cost of living in New York andworking outside of New York,
(09:30):
because I had to cross a bridgeand come back into New York to
where my job was, and I justrealized how much it didn't make
sense.
I was like I'm not spendingnearly any time at this home
that I'm paying to live in, I'mnot having any of my own
personal time, and it was justat that point that I was like I
think I need to do somethingdifferent.
(09:51):
You know, I think this is thetime.
So I had already started thispodcast.
I had gotten the blessing of myboss.
I'd started this podcast tohelp people, and people were
reaching out for opportunitiesto work with me.
So I took on some opportunities, I started working and then I
decided I'm going to quit my job.
Actually, I quit my job beforeI took on the opportunities.
But I got the opportunities andI was like, hey, this is enough
(10:13):
where I can make ends meet,leave this job and then go
forward.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And so I took that leap.
It was terrifying.
I had to write my resignationspeech like 20 times before I
had the nerve to say it.
I was so scared.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I could imagine yeah, I could imagine Terrified, yeah
, terrified Especially living inNew York.
You know you got to actuallyafford to live in New York.
Uh-huh, it was rough.
Yeah, I'm sure that was, butyou found a lot more joy, though
, I think, in what you do.
Well, I mean, you mentionedthat you found joy before, but I
think it's just a differenttype of joy.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think the main difference is working so hard
for your own dream versusworking so hard for someone
else's.
And that is what, and you knowwhat.
It's a privilege to be able todo that, and I've learned even
more now, being three years in.
It's a privilege because it'snot easy to be your own boss.
I have so much respect for thelast company that I worked at,
(11:09):
because that was a family ownedcompany.
Oh wow, and I'm like I don'tknow how they did it.
You know, I'm like they startedfrom nothing.
Just like me, you know it's,and they were huge multi-million
dollar company.
So yeah, you just, I respectthis journey.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, it is a hard road, that's for sure.
Yeah, yeah, be really tenaciousand really believe.
I think, in what it is thatyou're doing.
You know just all out, like nomatter what happens, like I
still have to believe what I do.
So, since you get theopportunity to speak with other
people who want to be in the toy, you know the toy business what
is.
I think, what is one of themost misconceptions that people
(11:50):
have.
You know being in the toyindustry.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Like there's different levels because, like
being in the toy industry, inthe corporate side, people's
misconceptions are usually thatyou get to kind of design
whatever you want, that it'sgoing to just be you being
creative, designing things andseeing what happens.
It's not that I know.
Even when I described it itmight have sounded like that,
but there are always parameters,whether it's cost parameters or
(12:18):
design parameters.
There was one time I remembermy assistant and I designed a
dollhouse and we spent hoursdoing it and then the person who
was leading us on that projectwas like no, no, no, no, we want
, we want you to start over andwe had to, like start from
scratch the next day.
And you know that happens inthe when you're working in the
(12:39):
corporate side of the industry.
What you envision is not alwayswhat's going to go to market.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right, okay, I think maybe one of the misconceptions
I believe, I don't know, I'm notin that space that you're in.
Yeah, it's the cost, right, yes, talk about the cost of some of
those things you know.
I mean, okay, I heard you onanother show talking about how
expensive it is to create a doll.
I know that from personalexperience.
You know creating those threeladies back there, but please
(13:07):
share.
You know the cost, I guess, ofcreating a toy or creating a
doll.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, yeah, I mean, I've gotten quotes for dolls
where you might pay five toeight hundred dollars for the
mold of a doll's head.
But if you have like a fullyarticulated doll wrists and
knees and ankles, and you knowelbows and everything you could
be looking at a super expensivemold cost of $70,000, you know,
(13:35):
with the head and everything.
So that is something thatpeople don't realize.
You have to design with cost inmind.
I try so hard to teach my TCAToy Creators Academy students
that, like, cost is everything.
So what I tell people that wantto start their own toy
businesses to do is don't startwith the plastic doll item.
(13:57):
Well, specifically, don't startwith the doll and then don't
start with plastic if you don'thave to.
So if you can start with aplush or start with paper based
goods, because the cost is goingto be a lot lower.
What really sells product,especially today, is the brand
behind it.
So you want to spend your timebuilding product that you can
(14:19):
sell under a brand and you canmake sure that you're building
up that brand recognition andbrand identity and loyalty.
And then, once you have thatfollowing, you have those
supporters you're like, okay,I've got enough people behind me
.
These people are want somethingelse.
I'm going to go into my dolldevelopment line.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean, and I think it's sointeresting because people will
always say, oh, just make a doll.
Or even when I'm talking tothem about my doll that we did,
oh, just make a doll.
And I'm like, yeah, the cost isso ridiculously high Because at
the end of the day, you have tomake sure, like you said, you
(14:57):
have a market margin to buy that.
Oh, in the market, yeah, in themarket and you can't just you
can't sink $70,000 intosomething and then have them to
produce two dolls.
I mean, that's the right.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
They will not.
There's a minimum.
They're not going to do twodolls Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So the minimum sometimes is very high as well.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yes, the minimum is high too.
Minimum is very high.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So when you create a toy, something that's not a doll
, you create a toy are theystill very high when it comes to
minimums?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, it's still high .
I mean like plus.
Usually you'll see a thousandunits will be the minimum.
Oh, okay, you might findsomeone who will go down to 500,
but just be wary of thosefactories.
They might not have all theright certifications, safety
certifications, and then plastictoys.
There's a side of it that mostpeople don't know or think about
(15:51):
.
There's an entire open marketcatalog of products.
So when we go so there's anevent called the Canton Fair and
that's essentially like I don'tknow think of a I don't know
think of like a trade show justfor factories.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But it's like in China, right.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So that's where you can find what they call open
market goods.
Now, open market goods are aregoods, are like plastic goods
you could buy without having topay for the mold.
Doll bodies, doll bodies thatyou could buy without having to
pay for the mold.
They're just, they already havethem produced.
They'll have a big batch ofthem.
(16:28):
You could buy these units,these individual pieces, and
build your own toy off of them.
So oftentimes for craft kits,open market is what we use.
So open market.
So like I might have, like Idon't know, like a bracelet
making kit and I might get openmarket thread for the bracelet
kit, I might get open marketbeads.
None of that stuff is custom,it's customized.
(16:50):
When I bring it all togetherand I package it for my unique
brand, that's a great way tostart out.
So and I did have a client oneswho did a custom doll head
because the the mold cost forher was like $5 to $800 for the
head and then she just used anopen market body.
So you could use a standardbody.
You're only paying the per unitcost for the doll body.
(17:11):
That unit cost could be $2 to$5 maybe depending on the size
of the doll right and the andthe detail spray you want on the
doll.
Then you get your custom headand you get your clothes.
It's still not cheap, but Imean it's.
It's a lot cheaper than doingyour own custom mold right.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Right, okay, all right.
Wow, I never knew about openmarket.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's great yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I did not know that?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So one of the things I would say if someone's talking
to a factory and they'relooking, they're considering
creating a mold of whatever itis they're making, let's say
you're making oh.
A great example of this is I'mworking with a client right now.
They're making a vehicleproduct.
They they have a vehicle thatis has a very specific wheel
type Right, but in order for usto mold those wheels, it's going
(18:02):
to add a lot of cost.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
A lot of cost Right, because that's a separate mold
right, it's a separate mold andwe're already molding the
vehicles custom, right, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So what we're doing instead is we're adjusting.
We had the factory look for allthese wheels.
They literally sent us a photoof piles of wheels and we had to
find the wheels that look asclose to what we want as
possible.
And then the factory is helpingus adjust the design, the model
of the vehicle itself so we canmake it work with open market
(18:31):
wheels.
So we have this custom body andwe'll have these open market
wheels.
The challenge with open marketis, you know, you got to hope
like they stay in stock right,because if something happens you
might have some changes.
But that's actually a greattime to bring up that.
You'll see a lot of craft kitswill say there's a line, and
then that says like contents andcolors may vary.
(18:54):
Because sometimes a bead likegold will change a little bit.
Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, okay, all right .
Now, when you talk aboutquantities, I mean, do you go
there and they have like ahundred, or do they have like a
thousand, or they have 10,000?
I mean, what is the?
It ranges from?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It ranges they could have thousands, but you just
never know how many they'reselling.
You know open market meansanybody can use those.
You don't know how many selling, they're selling and you don't
know how many they'll keepmaking until they're not making
them anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, All right, I get that.
That's cool.
I never even knew that that'sso cool.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
But that's what you're here for.
That's what you do, that's whatyou do.
That's what you do so well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So let me ask you this you became the toy coach
and then you started creatingthe toy creators Academy.
What is the difference betweenthose two?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The toy coach and the toy creators Academy.
Oh, that's a great question.
No one ever asked me thatbefore.
No one's ever asked me thatbefore.
So the toy coach was like aname I gave myself because I
knew people wouldn't remember agel and they wouldn't be able to
say it and they would beconfused.
So I was like, okay, if I'mgoing to try to do something,
which was my podcast, I needpeople to remember it.
(20:07):
We're going to call it the toycoach.
It's going to be by the toycoach.
So, when I first came out, Ididn't even use my face, I
didn't use my name.
I was a mysterious personcalled the toy coach.
So the toy coach is somebodywho puts out this free content
into the world to help people ontheir toy journeys.
There's a podcast, we havemaster master classes.
That is what the toy coach isall about.
(20:29):
Toy creators Academy is a paidprogram offered by the toy coach
, so it used to be a 12 weekprogram and is now turned into a
12 month program.
Wow.
So yeah, and the price is notthat high.
It's super cheap, anyway.
So for now I'm going to tell younow, when you're listening to
(20:49):
this episode, the price.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, next year .
Don't find the episode andthink Next year, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Don't try to come at me.
Okay, right now the price isaffordable Anyway.
So, no, no, it's very, it'svery well priced, honestly.
So toy creators Academy is a 12month group coaching program.
You have access to nine modulesfilled with, like all the
information that I've gottenover my toy career understanding
(21:16):
how to work with factories, howto design a toy product, how to
understand the market, and it'sconstantly being added to and
developed, so it has resourcesfor factories and freelancers
and trade show booth buildingand how to pitch to toy
companies.
And then at the end of theprogram, at the end of the year,
let's say we have a virtualpitch event.
(21:39):
And we're also going to bescheduling our first in person
pitch event, so it's going to bevery exciting and what we're
doing is we you pitch to toycompanies and you pitch to
retailers.
The whole idea is that your,your product is ready, you're
trying to pitch it for licensingor you want to pitch it for
placement.
And the way we structure the 12months is whenever you join TCA
(22:01):
you can go through the programand binge it like your favorite
Netflix show, or you can kind ofgo slow and try to go along
with us.
So, starting in October, Icover module one and we do a Q&A
all about module one.
In November, we do a Q&A allabout module two and so on and
so forth.
So we get to June, we're inmodule nine, and June is also
(22:24):
the time of one of the biggesttoy trade shows.
So that is how we structure it.
So we all kind of feel likewe're on this journey together.
But there's also an onlinecommunity, that we have TCA
alumni, so you can get help fromthem and from me, and it's a
it's a great program.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, it sounds like an amazing program, which I, you
know, had a toy I was thinkingabout because I would be all
over that, you know well,everybody says they don't have
ideas before they joined TCA,they have ideas after, because
something that people joinedwith.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, the people that joined without ideas are always
like oh my gosh, I had so manyideas going through module one
and two.
Or the people that joined withone idea say I started this with
one idea, but now I have a newidea.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That is so cool.
That is so cool.
I love that.
I love this.
Okay, good, so everybody canjoin.
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and we do have a refund policy.
So if you really find that toycreators Academy isn't right for
you, there is a refund policy.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
That's pretty cool.
So you've been in.
You've been in toys for a longtime now.
What, what do you find the mostfascinating part about the toy
industry?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Um, the most fascinating part?
Yeah, I mean I don't, thisprobably isn't a good answer.
I mean I love, I guess, okay,no, I would say, the most
interesting part is going Okay,let's, yeah, you want me to ask?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
that question.
Ask that question again.
What do you find?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
No, no, no, no, no, because I'll because there's two
, because there's two sides,because I would feel like the
most interesting part isprobably the factories.
Like when I go and see toysbeing made, even to this day, or
if I get a video from a factory, I just think it's so cool and
weird and like, just like it'sso interesting that this is how
something comes together Likeit's and it's just crazy.
(24:07):
But then the other side of it isthat I love that we can write
toys off in our taxes Becauseit's research, you know, so I
can play with anything right?
Yeah, I mean, but it literallyis like if I have to buy
something for a show segment orfor or for like a content for my
course it's a it's, it's work,it's work, it's work, it's so
(24:31):
true that is never, thoughtabout it like that.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It's great.
So when you were growing up Iknow you were a teacher, I know
you were, you know, having classwith your brother Were there
any kind of toys that you reallyliked, where there's like a
specific toy that you reallylove and what would?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
you like, I was obsessed with Polly Pocket, but
I also really liked the quints,like the little tiny they're,
like these little babies youwould put in the.
I just love children.
I don't know what was happeningwith me, but yeah the little
quints.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, the quints and Polly Pockets.
That's pretty cool, okay.
So one thing I do want to talkabout you being African American
woman in the toy industry.
I cannot not talk about that.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, sure, go ahead, go for it.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I know you definitely have been in many rooms when
you're probably the only onethere.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How has that been for you, and have you seen
representation grow within thetoy industry, and, and if so,
has it really been slow or doyou feel that they're moving at
a really good pace now?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I think there's definitely an increase in
representation in the toyindustry.
I think largely, a large partof it is due to us, as other
black women who are coming outwith these brands.
That cannot be ignored.
I don't necessarily see a hugepush from the majors, like you
(25:57):
know I mean, but that being said, you know there are a lot of,
so they're more independent.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
you're saying More independent?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, it's more independent, Like the majors,
now have to cater to everyone inall these different cultures
that they were kind of allowedto ignore before because society
said that was okay, and so nowyou know it's hard to say are
there enough black dolls?
Because are there enough Asiandolls Are there enough.
You know there's so many other,but the amount of black owned
(26:25):
companies that have come out andthen have gotten major press
and won awards like TOTI awards,which is the toy of the year
awards, is I mean I've neverseen anything like it.
I wish that I could be a partof it.
In that way, I feel, oh, onething people don't know when you
work a full time in the toyindustry, you're not allowed to
(26:46):
work on other projects.
Most jobs don't allow you towork on other toy designs that
they don't own.
So I remember I had severaldoll ideas for black dolls and
at the time I didn't think theywere so revolutionary.
Yet today I see them being doneand I'm like oh my gosh, I love
seeing this being done, but Ido wish that I could have done
(27:07):
it too.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So yeah, I think it's .
I mean, I'm looking right nowat I don't know if you heard of
Dr Lisa.
I've heard about her on theshow.
Of course I've heard about her.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I love that, so she sent me some gifts.
Nice.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
And this bow baby doll oh my gosh, so cute.
So the bow baby doll.
What I love about this is sheput Dr Lisa patented a lock
technology for hair so thatdolls can have actual locks, not
braids that look like lockslike for real, for real lock
hair.
And that has never been donebefore, and Dr Lisa told me that
(27:47):
she fought for this.
It was something that thefactories didn't understand and
they're like oh no.
But you have to fight for thesethings and the fact that there's
a company big enough andpowerful enough that can fight
for something like that likelocks.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm just I know, especially with all the
controversy continuing all thetime about hair, I know.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I want to have locks.
Look how cute her locks are.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
They are adorable, they are so cute.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
She's got lime green bangs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
I know she does, but Dr Lisa is doing amazing things
in the doll industry.
She really is, and she'samazing.
So I'm working on getting herback on the show because so many
things have happened since Iinterviewed her a year and a
half ago.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, she's doing her thing.
She's a busy lady.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I'm so excited about that and I'm just so excited to
have you in that space becauseyou're so needed to be able to
guide people that don'tunderstand that process and to
be able to share informationwith people who don't have that
kind of money to get the thingsthat they want to have happened
for themselves.
I know when I was doing that'slike the olden times when I was
(28:56):
doing my dolls, you know 2000.
Like what is that?
But you know?
But what we found to bechallenging is there was just
nobody out there that we couldreally reach out to.
Yes, yeah.
You know, it was just sodifficult to find anybody out
there especially people of colorthat was doing that.
So I'm just excited to have youin that space.
You know to be a young woman inthat space that can help guide
(29:19):
other entrepreneurs in the toyindustry, because it's a huge
industry.
And what I love about what youdo, too, is that you can you
mentor them through that process.
You also not just mentor them,you give them ideas, you have
them look at things differently.
Yeah, you know, and that's whatI love about what you do, thank
you.
You have been bringing so muchknowledge to the table about.
(29:40):
You know ways for them to dothings that they have never seen
before, and I just want tothank you so much for being a
representation of that.
It's just so needed, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you so nice.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You're so welcome.
You're so welcome.
So the Academy has started.
What other?
Do you have any other programsthat you're going to be
launching?
I know you're busy, but do youhave?
Any other programs you're goingto be launching.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, no, I do have an accelerator version of TCA.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, so if you are just like, I love this, ajal,
but I want to work with youone-on-one, there is an option
for that.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, that's TCA accelerator.
So it's a six-month version ofTCA, so you get everything that
you get with normal TCA, plus me, and it's essentially like
having a coach, like on-call, abusiness partner, on-call.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Like you can say like what's this?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Or like what do you think about this, you know?
Or what have the factory said?
They can't do this.
What should I say?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You know things like that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
And I do communication with my students
through WhatsApp, probablybecause I want to encourage them
to get WhatsApp, becauseWhatsApp is the key tool you
should use to communicate withfactories.
Like most, yeah, whatsapp andWeChat.
So, yeah, I use WhatsApp sothat I can connect with my
people during TCA acceleratorand kind of follow up with them.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
I did not know that.
See again just something elsethat we don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
We're just so much more in TCA.
I know that's right.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Have your own speed dialysis.
That would be great, right,that would be so cool.
So how are you expanding?
Also, you're expanding the toyculture.
I know you're continuing to dopodcasting, but is it going to
expand into anything else?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I want to do things, but I need to expand just this
first.
So right now, because everytime I look to add something
else to my business, I have tolook at how it either brings new
people to TCA or it helpspromote the people that have
graduated.
So the things that I'm focusingon adding right now are more to
promote the people that havegraduated.
(31:45):
So I'm looking to do morescholarship programs.
We just had one with Dr Lisa tobring two people into the
program, and then I am creatingmore opportunities for pitch
events in person and virtual sothat more people can pitch their
ideas.
And now we're looking topartner up with a bunch of play
cafes across the United Statesso that we can get students'
(32:08):
product placed there.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I'm just constantly looking for ways to
promote their product.
Yeah, I was going to ask youhow do you do marketing for them
?
I mean, because in your programI'm sure it's just not.
Hey, let's just get a productand that's it.
You go about your business.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Marketing is yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Marketing is key.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So, yeah, I teach a little bit of marketing, I teach
the way that I market in thisprogram.
And then I have pitch events.
Like, of course, my pitchevents are either an extra fee
or we have percentage options,because it is extra work.
Like I review your products.
It's not just like here's alist, go contact them.
It's like I review what you'regoing to pitch, I give you
(32:48):
feedback and then I coordinatethe meeting with the right
companies for you so that's likethe extra pitch event.
That's only for TCA grads butthere is an extra fee for that
pitch event and yeah, and that'sjust what we do.
I just try and I try to sharetheir stories, like if I can get
them on my podcast, if I canwrite a blog post about them.
All TCA students have access tothis link, which is essentially
(33:11):
submitting for a blog article.
So, they can submit theirfinished product or, if they've
gotten a license, they cansubmit their story.
So we can look at it and see ifit's a good fit to put on our
blog and we'll put it on ourblog and then that will build
their SEO and then they can usethat blog to promote themselves
and just help them get startedfaster.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, that's amazing.
You do a lot for them, which Ithink is beautiful.
I think, it's really a greatopportunity for anybody who
wants to create a toy to reallyreach out to you honestly,
because I don't think you everget that one-on-one or even that
walkthrough or just theconnections that they'll get
from.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
The connections are everything.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
The connections are everything they really are.
So wow, thank you so much fordoing what you do.
I really appreciate that.
In the toy world.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So excited.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So you know, as being a serial entrepreneur such as
you are, I know you've learned alot of lessons about resilience
and also adaptability.
So how do those qualitiesreally contribute to you being
in the toy industry and buildingyour business?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh man, yeah, resilience is just like keep
going every time we get a no.
Like I know my students pitchideas and I try to tell them
like try not to take those no'spersonally.
And I tell myself the samething, because I get no's too
when I'm trying to get fundingfor the program for them, when
I'm trying to get them placed,when I'm trying to get on TV to
show their product.
(34:39):
I get no's all the time.
So I mean, like when I'mgetting my students to go out
there and pitch their ideas, Iknow they're getting no's too.
It's just the remind for me.
Actually I do a couple ofthings.
I have one.
I just look at my testimonialssometimes.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You gotta look at what people that love.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, look at the people that love what you're
doing and just remember how muchyou help them, and I tell my
students to do the same thing.
Look at their customer feedbackand what people think of their
product, and that will keep themgoing.
And then the second thing Iactually got this tip from I
don't know some self-helppodcast where they said take a
photo of yourself as a kid andput it and like, print it out
(35:20):
and put it somewhere you can seeit.
And you'll just anytime you aretrying to give yourself negative
self-talk, you'll look at thatpicture and say you're negative
self-talking, that little girl.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know yeah, and then you feel, yeah, right, it
gets you.
That's so weird.
I literally just saw myselfthere and me thinking about me
saying really negative things.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
So that would be not pretty cool.
Yeah.
So then you give yourself grace, you're like, look at that
sweet little girl, I know Likeyou're, like she's a sweetheart,
she's fine, she's a sweetheartRight oh, wow, that's really
great.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
That, wow, that's a great piece of advice.
No, it really is.
I think that that would touch alot of people.
I think, because, you know,it's always that little kid that
needs to be reminded andsupported and loved.
That's really cool.
So would that be the same typeof, I guess, inspiring thing
that you would tell otherentrepreneurs, regardless of
what space they're in?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, I mean yeah, limit that negative self-talk.
I mean I know, I feel it allthe time.
I you know doing something, thebigger you go the easier.
It is to be hard on yourselfbecause you're doing more, so
there's more to criticize.
But you just, you know, Iremind myself every day Like I'm
not good at being nice tomyself.
(36:36):
I have to remind myself everyday.
I'm like you know, you're doinga good job, everyone is fine,
everything is going great.
Okay, you know you're workinghard.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, because you know we're all humans and we all
go through that, no matterwhere you're at or whatever
level you're at.
And I think a lot of peopletend to, you know, think that,
oh, because somebody is up herethat they always have it
together.
They always know what they'redoing, and that's you know
that's not the case.
We all suffer from that.
You know imposter syndrome everyonce in a while, you know even
no matter how much you know goodwe're doing in the world.
(37:09):
So, yeah, thank you forreminding us about that.
Well, I want to thank you somuch, a'jelle, for being on In
the Dawn World with me.
It's been so exciting and youare just so awesome and I'm just
so happy to have you in the toyspace.
I just cannot even express howhappy I am to be that you're
there.
So can you just share witheverybody how they can get in
contact with you, all thosepeople now who are running to
(37:30):
make toys and hook up with you.
I'm just Happily.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Happily, happily.
If you're interested in ToyCreators Academy, go to
toycreatorsacademycom, and ifyou're just interested in my
podcast, go to the toycoachcomand at the top you can click
podcast or in the menu bar ifyou're on your phone and just
listen.
I mean, I would recommendstarting with episode one
because when I first started Iintentionally did it in the
order of development.
(37:55):
But you honestly can startanywhere, close your eyes,
scroll through and just land onan episode.
I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm sure you definitely will enjoy it and, as
a matter of fact, she gave mean episode that I'm gonna check
out and I will definitely dothat.
So thank you so much again fortaking the time and saying yes
to be a guest on In the DawnWorld.
I'm just thrilled, so thank youagain so much.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Thank you for having me, Georgia.
This was really fun.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
You're so welcome, love.
Okay, bye everybody.
Bye, bye.
Hello everybody.
Thank you so much for listeningto In the Dawn World.
I hope you enjoyed the show.
Please don't forget to sharethe podcast with other doll
enthusiasts such as yourself.
They can find us at Facebook,instagram and Twitter at In the
Dawn World.
The show can also be downloadedon all apps with podcasts or
(38:40):
streamed To see videos of ourinterviews.
Please visit our In the DawnWorld YouTube channel and don't
forget, in the Dawn World isalso on Alexa.
Just ask Alexa to open DawnWorld.
Did you know that you can nowleave a voicemail or give us a
review?
We would love to hear from youor suggest a guest for the show.
You can do all that by visitingwwwinthedawworldcom and, until
(39:05):
next week, add a little playinto your life by collecting a
doll, sharing a doll or giving adoll a home.
And again, thank you forlistening to In the Dawn World.
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