April 14, 2026 • 32 mins
Mike breaks down the real differences between Slack, Microsoft Teams, and Discord so you can choose a communication platform that fits your team size, tools, and day-to-day work.
We also call out why group Gmail threads, group texts, and WhatsApp usually create noise instead of clarity and how to build a single source of truth.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
And this week we're gonna betalking about communication.
So specifically communicationplatforms, because there's
actually kind of a lot ofdifferent ways to skin the cat
in this situation.
(00:22):
And a lot of times I've learnedthat people don't even really
know that there arealternatives, as well as
different strengths to thosealternatives.
And the one that you're usingmight be the best one for your
situation.
And I will also say switching isnot very fun.
However, there's some things tobe gained if you decide to
(00:44):
choose one of these other ones.
At Punchmark, we use Slack, andI would never want to switch
away from it because we havealmost 10 years of conversation
backlogged in it, and we use thesearch function all the time.
I would love to hear what youend up using it, but for now I'm
gonna go through breaking downthe best on communication
methods.
(01:04):
Alright, so please enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
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industry relationships,Punchmark enables jewelry
businesses to flourish in anymarketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
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Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
(01:42):
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PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
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It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
(02:03):
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Okay, so the first one I want to start with is the
one that I like the best by far.
It's called Slack.
So Slack, if you ever came fromuh, for example, uh, did you
ever use AOL or AIM, um, instantmessenger?
I grew up on that, like when Iwas in, you know, sixth,
(02:32):
seventh, eighth, ninth grade.
And it was really where likeeverybody kind of did their
communication.
So why do we use Slack atPunchmark?
Well, the thing is, is you canuse these group channels.
So we have um, you know, thesebasic channels that everybody's
on.
Uh, for example, we have onecalled On the Markt.
On the Mark is our generalchannel.
(02:53):
That general channel is reallyuseful for just anything that
doesn't have a spot to go.
But we have some more specificones.
For example, we have one that'scalled a channel, is like
something where people post intoit uh called awesome links.
But what's really nice is thatit keeps everything kind of
combined.
And then if I post uh a nicelink or something that's
(03:16):
interesting, then you can threadyour conversations underneath
it, which kind of keeps thingsnicely organized by a topic
inside of a channel.
You can also do direct messages,so I can message, for example,
Ross directly and no one elsewill see it, but you can also
have private channels.
What's nice about a privatechannel is it kind of allows you
(03:36):
to control who's able to see it.
What's nice about that is forthe C-suite and the directors at
Punchmark, we have a privatechannel where we can discuss
like business and operationalthings without it, you know,
being searchable or findable bypeople without uh admin
controls.
What's also nice about it is wehave uh certain project driven
(03:58):
channels.
And what's good about that is,for example, when it comes to
shows, uh, you know, JCK, it'scoming up.
So we will spin up a newchannel.
There's no limit on the numberof channels you can have.
So we might spin up a channelcalled um JCK 2026, and then
everything related to that topicwill go in there, and then it's
(04:18):
nicely organized.
You know, all of uh the showdates, all of the booking
information, all the Airbnbinformation, all of that, it
kind of just gets nicelyorganized.
But what I think is really goodis that Slack out of the box is
neck and neck with all theothers.
What's really nice about it isthese plugins.
(04:38):
There's a lot of things that youcan do with this, and the you
know, the depths kind of go asfar as you want to go, kind of
thing.
But what's nice about theseplugins is you can add in
integrations to um you knoweverything else.
So we have uh a very importantone, which is our HubSpot
plugin.
We use HubSpot for ourcommunication, but HubSpot makes
(05:01):
it so that anytime uh Tommy, oursales um person, makes a sale,
we have a thing where if hecloses a deal, there's a trigger
that immediately puts it into aspecific Slack channel, and then
everybody knows he made a sale.
Why is this important?
Well, for a long time, like Isaid, I feel very strongly about
road building.
(05:22):
Uh I used to not like that Ididn't know when Tommy was
making a sale.
Sometimes Tommy would have likethree sales in a week, and I
wanted to celebrate that, but Ididn't even know.
And then like three weeks later,I would find out, oh, Tommy had
a three-sale week, and it'slike, oh, we should give him his
flowers.
Like, come on.
And those kinds of integrationsmake it so that Tommy doesn't
(05:44):
have to like remember to writeinto a channel, hey, I made this
sale.
The integrations and theautomations make it so that
actually work kind of worksalong for you.
We also have um an integrationwith our Jira.
Jira is our ticketing system.
I already did an entire breakingdown the best episode on the
Atlassian suite, and Jira is oneof those kind of organization
(06:07):
and project-based tools.
But what's cool about Jira isthe integration to it.
I have an entire uh fancy systemthat actually our project
manager, um, Lorenzo walked methrough setting up where anytime
a ticket is updated or moved,moved mean there's progress on
(06:29):
it, it updates into uh aspecific channel.
And what's nice is thateverybody in the company is able
to view that channel, and theydon't have to ask me, hey Mike,
um, you know, has Alice andKaufman updated their products?
Well, you can just look in thechannel and see the last time it
was updated.
Uh, nothing is gonna sneak by,if you will.
(06:51):
So what I think is great aboutSlack is just it's very
organized, has a great searchfunction.
Granted, the searching functionum has a limit on the free um
version.
Uh, we pay for like a proversion, which is, I don't know,
probably like$100 a month orsomething like that.
So it is a business expense.
(07:12):
So maybe that doesn't work foryou.
I would say that for Slack, youneed to have, I'd probably say
at least nine members for it tostart working good.
We used it right when I startedat Punchmark and we had eight
members, and right around eight,nine, ten is right when it
started to kind of feel like itwas like had some momentum.
(07:34):
We also have a rule atPunchmark, uh kind of informal
rule, but pretty much a rule,where we do no internal
communication outside of Slack,which means like if we're
talking about Punchmark andwe're talking like we're sharing
work stuff, we make sure that itis always in Slack.
(07:54):
We don't um Gmail, you know,email each other about a project
for like, hey, how's this likework going on?
We make sure that it's alwaysthrough Slack.
And by clamping down on that, weactually that was kind of like
uh something we thought of, Idon't know, probably a year
after uh we started our Slackuse.
(08:15):
It makes it so when everythingis in one place, there is a
single source of truth, and thatway when I search, um, for
example, sometimes if a clientdeactivates with Punchmark, I
have to go through and I'd findall the information about them
so I can put it into onedocument and provide like a
postmortem on the client.
And if I search the name, Ishould be able to find every
(08:37):
single thing related to them inactually in two spots.
One is Slack, that's all thecommunication about the client,
and then in HubSpot, it tracksall of our emails to the client.
So if I look in those two spots,I should get every single
detail.
I don't have to worry aboutlike, uh, did anyone like text
about this or anything likethat?
We just all go through Slack.
(08:58):
I don't want to dive too longinto just uh one of these
platforms.
I will say Slack is my favorite.
It also feels a little bit fun,but you do kind of need to
tailor back, like sometimes itcan be just like really
distracting.
There's a lot of communication,and with that, what's cool is
you can just mute certainnotifications.
I make it so that mynotifications are muted after um
(09:20):
8 p.m.
So that no one um it doesn'tlike wake me up or something
like that if there's like afire.
Okay, next.
Let's talk about MicrosoftTeams.
So I, full disclosure, I'venever used Microsoft Teams, but
I have seen it.
Uh my brother Steve has used uhTeams for um certain companies
(09:40):
before that he's worked for.
It's very dry, you could say.
It's just like Slack, exceptthere's no fun in it, um, which
makes sense because MicrosoftTeams is for um businesses that
are already really embedded intothe Microsoft ecosystem.
So if you remember, I didactually a breakdown of the best
(10:02):
on uh the Google Suite.
So this is uh Google Docs,Sheets, Slides, Drive, all of
those ones.
And it's kind of like a Coke orPepsi sort of situation.
And if your company is a GoogleSuite type of company, which I
think there's a great argumentthat you should be because it's
(10:24):
free and it's cloud-based, um,you're probably going to want to
use Slack in this case if you'rechoosing between the two.
However, if your entire companyis super uh Microsoft based,
then you're probably likemeaning your company only uses
um what is it, Microsoft Wordand Excel and PowerPoint, then
(10:47):
there's a very good argument tobe made that you should uh
probably go with Teams.
They integrate really well witheach other, there's a native
aspect to it.
Also, if you're paying for likeMicrosoft, I think it's called
365 or something like that, itusually comes with all the other
uh features, and Teams is one ofthem.
(11:09):
Um, I also know that with Teams,you can have like like thousands
of members in the same spacewithout it getting like super
cluttered, and that is one ofthe parts of Slack.
I think that there's like anupper limit to like how I think
Slack's upper limit is like 500or so.
Um, maybe more.
I don't know.
Someone could correct me.
(11:30):
But I'm kind of tailoring thisto like what a small business
use, and most jewelry stores area small business.
Um, I will say that everybodyagrees that Teams is clunky and
that it's um not very funculturally, you might say.
Whereas Slack, it has this kindof innate fun to it.
(11:51):
You know, everything's like nicecolors, you can customize the
colors, you can make it kind offeel like your company, whether
that's fun or not fun.
And Microsoft Teams are a littlebit more dry.
Um, yeah, I guess I don't have aton to add to it.
It's the similarities betweenTeams and Slack are very uh
(12:12):
they're very similar.
And I think the real definingpoint is what does your team use
for um its infrastructure?
If you're a G Suite type ofperson, I'd probably recommend
Slack.
If you're a Microsoft type ofperson, you're probably gonna be
using Teams.
Okay.
Here's another option.
If you are like let's just sayyou're a jewelry store and you
(12:33):
run everything via text, which Ithink is not a great solution in
my humble opinions, unlessthere's only like two of you or
three of you.
Um, another option is Discord.
So Discord to kind of seteverybody on the right foot or
get everyone on the groundwork,it actually started with um
(12:53):
video games and like gaming.
So what's really interestingabout it is that it has the best
voice channels possible.
So this again probably doesn'tnot really applicable to a
jewelry store, but people likeDiscord because the voice aspect
is existing at all times, ifthat makes sense.
(13:15):
So with Slack, if I want tohuddle, which is their version
of like a one-on-one voicechannel, uh, if I want to huddle
with someone, I have to start itand then they have to answer.
It's kind of like a phone call.
Whereas with Discord, the voicechannel always exists.
And if you're in the channel,someone can just pop in and
start talking, and it'll likeyou'll start hearing it.
(13:38):
So that is kind of more like theaspect of being in like
developing culture.
I'd probably say Discord isprobably like the most readily
available for culturedevelopment.
Um, I used to run a uh Discord,and what I thought was cool was
it was easy to enter a Discord.
I used to be in a couple ofthem.
(14:00):
Uh, it would get reallydistracting because I don't like
being in, I don't like having alot of notifications.
Um, but I used to run one forwhen I used to stream my
watercolor paintings, and whatwas nice is it was a way that
you could control thecommunication uh in the
algorithm behind it.
So if I post on Instagram, thenthe algorithm it sometimes my
(14:23):
friends wouldn't even see myart.
Uh, even if they wanted to seemy art, if they didn't look at
art in general, the algorithmmight not serve them mine.
However, when you're in Discord,if they're in my channel and I
post something, they're gonnasee a notification about it.
So that's kind of a strength.
But when it comes to thecommunication, what's also nice
(14:44):
is there's channels in theretoo.
It's very similar to Slack inthat regard.
Um, you can also add a lot ofcustomization and bots to it.
I've been in some Discords thathave the most craziest, way too
expansive bot networks that likeum it almost feels like you're
(15:05):
like a custom piece of liketechnology.
And I think that's what thedifference between like some of
these, you know, tools that aremade for mass communication and
others is that they're made tobe sandbox or flexible.
So out of the box they're okay,but in the box, you know, as you
like build, um, suddenly theybecome very indispensable.
(15:28):
Like with Punchmark, if if wewere to switch away, it would be
it would take me six months ofhard work to like unravel all of
these things.
And I think Discord is very muchlike that.
You can really build someinteresting, cool things, like
you can set up alerts for yeah,anytime someone makes a sale,
anytime anyone visits yourwebsite, you make anytime um the
(15:53):
Yankees score a run.
You can do all those things.
Um, yeah.
The one thing I will say isthere is an aspect of security
between these, the three I'vejust spoken about, between
Slack, Teams, and then Discord.
And I will say everybody agrees,I mean, Teams is by far the most
(16:13):
secure.
Slack is is secure, meaning likeit's hard for the someone to get
in and like steal confidentialinformation.
I will say Discord is not reallywell known for being like super
secure, and it can feel like alittle bit unprofessional at
times, or I guess notunprofessional, non-professional
is the better word.
(16:33):
So I don't know, I think it'sjust uh something to consider
it.
You could also run a Discordpretty successfully with a very
low number of people, um, likeless than 10.
And it's also very uh verygenerous free plan that I would
consider maybe poking around at.
So if you're running like youryour jewelry store, the
(16:55):
communication with all youremployees and like your upper
level, I would probably consideruh and you're using like yeah,
like a group text or somethinglike that, I would strongly
recommend maybe looking at likea Discord or um maybe a Slack,
but probably a Discord first.
Alright, everybody, we're gonnatake a quick break and hear a
(17:15):
word from our sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
(17:38):
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
And we're back.
(17:58):
Next one.
I uh I can't stand this one.
So this one is Gmail.
This is just group Gmail, andthis is what uh I affectionately
refer to as Boomer Group Chat.
And I've talked about the artistguild that I'm a part of, and
uh, so this is like the galleryI share my work at.
(18:20):
It's in my hometown, and I uh wedo a lot of communication in
there, well, you know,organizing stuff, when's the
next meeting, um, newopportunities, and there's 15 of
us, so it's like a basicallylike a 15-person group chat, and
the way we communicate isthrough Gmail.
If I was to open up my emailright now for my personal email,
(18:42):
I'm looking here.
I have one, two, three, four,five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Nine of my top 10 emails aredifferent threads with you know,
with the guild.
And you're just getting constantnumber of emails.
And the thing is, is likethere's no hierarchy to it.
(19:04):
So, like, hierarchy meaning likethreading or or you know, this
is a main post with subsequentposts underneath it, and as a
result, um, if someone asks aquestion, hey, are we gonna have
this meeting?
And someone writes yes, thatnotification comes through like
an like a real full email.
(19:26):
And then if someone else saysyes at the same time, well then
it's yes, yes.
And what if the c theconversation branches?
So let's just say, hey, are wegonna have this meeting and
someone says yes, and someoneelse says yes, and then someone
says, um I don't know, is theregonna be snacks at the meeting?
And then if someone is like, uh,yes, and then someone asks what
(19:49):
kind of snacks there are, well,suddenly the conversation has
three parts to it.
Are we having this meeting?
Are there gonna be snacks?
And what type of snacks shouldwe have?
And suddenly it's chaos.
And we've been doing this, I'vebeen a part of this guild for a
year and a half, and Iabsolutely hate it.
But the thing is, I can't uh getus to migrate out of Gmail
(20:12):
because uh the average age ofthe guild is rather old, it's
like 70s, and I'm the youngest,and I cannot imagine getting
everybody to uh switch on toDiscord or Slack or something.
That that's never going tohappen.
So as a result, we're stuck withGmail, and I just keep getting
(20:33):
more and more emails from them.
Um, it also can make it sort ofeasy to lose certain topics.
So, for example, uh I'm the notetaker at the guild, and whenever
we have um our our meetings,sometimes I'll post the notes
back to everybody.
But what's really difficultabout that is there might be
(20:56):
multiple topics in the notes,and then I do feel like
sometimes people don't answerall of the topics.
And if you were on, for example,Slack or Discord, you could
start a topic.
For example, you know, here'sthe three action items that we
have.
You can make a post about one,two, and then three, and then
(21:18):
people could respond bythreading that's like a topic.
Um, you could thread into thefirst one your answer, the
second one your answer, and thenthe third one.
Um, that's just not possible inGmail, and it just becomes um
pretty chaotic.
So if you're using Gmail toorganize your store and you're
(21:40):
listening to this podcast, whichI'm assuming if you're listening
to this podcast, you're probablymore tech fluent than uh a lot
of the other people that I've Iwork with, then I would consider
not using Gmail and switching toone of these other ones.
Okay, another one.
And this one we're going in likethe sending order of
satisfaction.
(22:01):
This is uh group text.
So this is a good solution whenyou have, I'm going to say, four
or fewer people.
Um, you can get kind of a lot ofstuff done by group chatting,
and especially if you useiMessage, you can respond to
certain things.
I would probably only sayiMessage group chats is um a
(22:23):
viable option for a business ifyeah, you're less than four and
everybody is on an Apple device.
I think that if someone has likea an Android and it breaks the
the group chat aspect of it,which you know, you can't do
iMessage group chats with oneperson on Android, then I would
(22:43):
strongly recommend not doingthis.
I do know one of my friends is abartender at a place in town and
their communication method isvia is via group chat.
That one, it's kind of theydon't have like a lot of high
leverage, high detail kind ofdecision making going into it.
It's more like, hey, are wegonna be open today?
(23:05):
Are we not gonna be open today?
Like who's working today?
Who's can anyone take thisshift?
Can anyone not take this shift?
Whereas with like, you know, atPunchmark, like we might be
working on a single project foryou know a year straight.
And having that topic beself-contained is there's an
advantage to it because then,you know, as you go through a
(23:26):
year, you can scroll back inthat topic.
Whereas in a group chat, youcan't.
Okay, let's move on.
Um, another one I want to atleast bring up, it's called
WhatsApp.
Man, I hate WhatsApp.
I I just hate it.
Um, one thing that's kind ofinteresting.
Did you know that WhatsApp isowned by by Meta, by Facebook,
(23:47):
which I think is kind ofinteresting.
Um, we always forget that.
They bought it for like severalbillion dollars, and um that's
kind of like what a lot of yourmessaging infrastructure is.
Uh, one thing that people uhlike I find it useful for is
communication with internationalpeople.
Um, so I have a friend inArgentina, and anytime we
(24:11):
communicate, uh, we use umWhatsApp, and that's because you
know she has um, you know, anumber that's not a plus one,
you know, US number.
Um, I also find it interestingwhen uh it's useful when people
go to um international uh gotravel internationally.
(24:31):
And for example, my parents theywent to Vietnam, and when they
went to Vietnam, they switchedtheir SIM cards, and by
switching it changed their phonenumber.
And I found it useful to haveeverything in WhatsApp as a
communication method.
But again, this isn't how youshould run a business, I
wouldn't recommend.
Okay, so just to kind of recap,and I would love to hear how
(24:55):
jewelry store infrastructure isworking.
Like, it depends a little bit onhow many employees do you have.
It's also going to depend alittle bit on how high leverage
your discussions are going tobe.
Meaning, like, are things goingto be topic and timeline and
project based?
Or are you just kind of askinglike on a day-to-day basis,
(25:18):
like, hey, are we open?
Are we not open?
So that's gonna help with yourdecision making.
Um, to summarize it, it's kindof like Slack is for organized
work.
Um, again, I'm very partial toit, but that's beside the point.
Teams is for enterprise work,and the people I'm talking to on
this podcast, it's probably notfor you unless you work in like,
(25:41):
you know, one of those bigcompanies that have many, many
um employees in it.
And then Discord is for likeculture development and
real-time collaboration.
And I would actually say it'sgood for a lower number of
employees.
I think you could get away withit with like anywhere between
(26:01):
four or five and fifteen,twenty, th probably twenty.
If you get past twenty, maybestart looking at Slack.
Slack is good for like between Ithink eight or nine, and I don't
know.
I've never reached the upperlimits, 500.
And Microsoft Teams is good forlike, I don't know, up to like
(26:23):
2000.
So those are like uh email isgood for just communication
one-to-one, or maybe even groupone.
Uh, if you would get behind, uhget past one-to-one, I think
that there's so many otheroptions.
I would just recommend youswitch into even texting.
And then um WhatsApp, WhatsAppis good for international stuff
(26:46):
that I might consider.
You know, I think it's one ofthose things, the communication
aspect, um, there's kind of alot of stuff that I'm sort of
interested in about it.
I think it comes from my UXbackground.
What I find fascinating aboutthe communication is that it
doesn't actually come naturallyto everybody, if that makes
(27:09):
sense.
So some of my coworkers, they umare very much heavily reliant on
um voice.
So the CS team at Punchmark doesa lot of group calls and they
work, but they just stay onmute, and then when they have a
question, they ask it.
Where because they needreal-time contextual
(27:29):
information.
So, like it might take you, youknow, five or ten minutes to
type out the context for aquestion, and but you could just
explain it in you know, oneminute of just a quick.
So, do you remember this person?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
The voice aspect is a value, andthat's one of those cool things
about Slack is that they just gothrough a huddle and they do a
(27:52):
long-term huddle together.
Uh, I find it good because uh inSlack, one of the things I've
spent a lot of time on is havingthese specific, team-specific
meetings.
One year, I think it was twoyears ago, I actually um one of
my projects that the bosses gaveto me was I created these
(28:14):
infrastructural channels for thecompany.
So, like I made a team or uh achannel with the bosses, the
three bosses, and eachdepartment, and I made it a
private channel.
So that way they could alwaysask a question in a group
setting.
Because it's important toremember that when you ask a
(28:34):
one-to-one question, thatinformation stops being spread
at one person.
Whereas if you ask a question ina group setting, then that
information is very economical,it is spread across many.
So, for example, let's just sayum your access code for your
store changes, and then if youwere to say, hey, the access
(28:58):
code changed, DM me for the uhfor the code.
Well, suddenly everybody in theplace would have to DM you and
you'd have to explain it tothem, and then it would be one
by one by one, and then that'snot very economical.
Suddenly your time is it's youknow uh related to explaining
(29:22):
that, and that's a hard way tokind of you know digest that
information, but still, if youwere to post it into a group
channel, suddenly everybody isable to learn at like a much
more um exponential rate becausethen it's up to them to just
digest and reach out and findthe information themselves.
(29:42):
So at Punchmark, one thing wehave is an outreach channel for
each department.
So, for example, for the premiumvendor program that I'm leading,
I have um a vendor-outreach.
So this is where everybody elsein the company can ask the
vendor people, that's me, stuffabout vendors.
So anytime there's a new ticket,they ask, they put it into
(30:05):
vendor outreach and they say,Hey Mike, so and so is asking
this question about so and so,and I say, Oh, thanks.
But what's nice about that isyou know, let's just say, you
know, Michael Jewelry vendor isuh is broken.
If someone asks, hey, isso-and-so broken, and I say yes,
then if someone else discoversthat it's broken, they go to
(30:28):
that channel, they see, oh,Michael's jewelry is broken.
Well, suddenly they don't haveto ask again, and then it
actually frees up everybody'stime.
And again, the information ismuch more economical.
This is the kind of thefoundation of um good scaled
communication.
Again, I'm probably I don'tknow.
(30:49):
I wish I knew.
This is not uh something I'mprivy to, what the average
number of employees at all ofour clients is.
And I think it would be veryfascinating to like, yeah, like
see what they're using.
Maybe I'll like think aboutthat.
Maybe I'll send like a surveyout to like our clients, be
like, hey, how many employees doyou have at your store?
(31:09):
And then what do you use yourcommunication method?
Uh, that'd be prettyinteresting.
But maybe if you want to leave acomment on Spotify or email me,
Michael at Punchmark, that'd bekind of interesting.
All that to be said, that wasbreaking down the best on
communication.
And we went over um Slack,Teams, Discord, Group Gmail,
(31:32):
group chats, and WhatsApp.
I hope you enjoyed.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Alright, everybody.
That was the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week's episode was broughtto you by Punchmark and produced
(31:53):
and hosted by me, Michael Burpa.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cocker.
Don't forget to rate thispodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts, and leave us feedbackon punchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
And this week we're gonna betalking about communication.
So specifically communicationplatforms, because there's
actually kind of a lot ofdifferent ways to skin the cat
in this situation.
(00:22):
And a lot of times I've learnedthat people don't even really
know that there arealternatives, as well as
different strengths to thosealternatives.
And the one that you're usingmight be the best one for your
situation.
And I will also say switching isnot very fun.
However, there's some things tobe gained if you decide to
(00:44):
choose one of these other ones.
At Punchmark, we use Slack, andI would never want to switch
away from it because we havealmost 10 years of conversation
backlogged in it, and we use thesearch function all the time.
I would love to hear what youend up using it, but for now I'm
gonna go through breaking downthe best on communication
methods.
(01:04):
Alright, so please enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
With decades of experience and long-lasting
industry relationships,Punchmark enables jewelry
businesses to flourish in anymarketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
(01:42):
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
(02:03):
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Okay, so the first one I want to start with is the
one that I like the best by far.
It's called Slack.
So Slack, if you ever came fromuh, for example, uh, did you
ever use AOL or AIM, um, instantmessenger?
I grew up on that, like when Iwas in, you know, sixth,
(02:32):
seventh, eighth, ninth grade.
And it was really where likeeverybody kind of did their
communication.
So why do we use Slack atPunchmark?
Well, the thing is, is you canuse these group channels.
So we have um, you know, thesebasic channels that everybody's
on.
Uh, for example, we have onecalled On the Markt.
On the Mark is our generalchannel.
(02:53):
That general channel is reallyuseful for just anything that
doesn't have a spot to go.
But we have some more specificones.
For example, we have one that'scalled a channel, is like
something where people post intoit uh called awesome links.
But what's really nice is thatit keeps everything kind of
combined.
And then if I post uh a nicelink or something that's
(03:16):
interesting, then you can threadyour conversations underneath
it, which kind of keeps thingsnicely organized by a topic
inside of a channel.
You can also do direct messages,so I can message, for example,
Ross directly and no one elsewill see it, but you can also
have private channels.
What's nice about a privatechannel is it kind of allows you
(03:36):
to control who's able to see it.
What's nice about that is forthe C-suite and the directors at
Punchmark, we have a privatechannel where we can discuss
like business and operationalthings without it, you know,
being searchable or findable bypeople without uh admin
controls.
What's also nice about it is wehave uh certain project driven
(03:58):
channels.
And what's good about that is,for example, when it comes to
shows, uh, you know, JCK, it'scoming up.
So we will spin up a newchannel.
There's no limit on the numberof channels you can have.
So we might spin up a channelcalled um JCK 2026, and then
everything related to that topicwill go in there, and then it's
(04:18):
nicely organized.
You know, all of uh the showdates, all of the booking
information, all the Airbnbinformation, all of that, it
kind of just gets nicelyorganized.
But what I think is really goodis that Slack out of the box is
neck and neck with all theothers.
What's really nice about it isthese plugins.
(04:38):
There's a lot of things that youcan do with this, and the you
know, the depths kind of go asfar as you want to go, kind of
thing.
But what's nice about theseplugins is you can add in
integrations to um you knoweverything else.
So we have uh a very importantone, which is our HubSpot
plugin.
We use HubSpot for ourcommunication, but HubSpot makes
(05:01):
it so that anytime uh Tommy, oursales um person, makes a sale,
we have a thing where if hecloses a deal, there's a trigger
that immediately puts it into aspecific Slack channel, and then
everybody knows he made a sale.
Why is this important?
Well, for a long time, like Isaid, I feel very strongly about
road building.
(05:22):
Uh I used to not like that Ididn't know when Tommy was
making a sale.
Sometimes Tommy would have likethree sales in a week, and I
wanted to celebrate that, but Ididn't even know.
And then like three weeks later,I would find out, oh, Tommy had
a three-sale week, and it'slike, oh, we should give him his
flowers.
Like, come on.
And those kinds of integrationsmake it so that Tommy doesn't
(05:44):
have to like remember to writeinto a channel, hey, I made this
sale.
The integrations and theautomations make it so that
actually work kind of worksalong for you.
We also have um an integrationwith our Jira.
Jira is our ticketing system.
I already did an entire breakingdown the best episode on the
Atlassian suite, and Jira is oneof those kind of organization
(06:07):
and project-based tools.
But what's cool about Jira isthe integration to it.
I have an entire uh fancy systemthat actually our project
manager, um, Lorenzo walked methrough setting up where anytime
a ticket is updated or moved,moved mean there's progress on
(06:29):
it, it updates into uh aspecific channel.
And what's nice is thateverybody in the company is able
to view that channel, and theydon't have to ask me, hey Mike,
um, you know, has Alice andKaufman updated their products?
Well, you can just look in thechannel and see the last time it
was updated.
Uh, nothing is gonna sneak by,if you will.
(06:51):
So what I think is great aboutSlack is just it's very
organized, has a great searchfunction.
Granted, the searching functionum has a limit on the free um
version.
Uh, we pay for like a proversion, which is, I don't know,
probably like$100 a month orsomething like that.
So it is a business expense.
(07:12):
So maybe that doesn't work foryou.
I would say that for Slack, youneed to have, I'd probably say
at least nine members for it tostart working good.
We used it right when I startedat Punchmark and we had eight
members, and right around eight,nine, ten is right when it
started to kind of feel like itwas like had some momentum.
(07:34):
We also have a rule atPunchmark, uh kind of informal
rule, but pretty much a rule,where we do no internal
communication outside of Slack,which means like if we're
talking about Punchmark andwe're talking like we're sharing
work stuff, we make sure that itis always in Slack.
(07:54):
We don't um Gmail, you know,email each other about a project
for like, hey, how's this likework going on?
We make sure that it's alwaysthrough Slack.
And by clamping down on that, weactually that was kind of like
uh something we thought of, Idon't know, probably a year
after uh we started our Slackuse.
(08:15):
It makes it so when everythingis in one place, there is a
single source of truth, and thatway when I search, um, for
example, sometimes if a clientdeactivates with Punchmark, I
have to go through and I'd findall the information about them
so I can put it into onedocument and provide like a
postmortem on the client.
And if I search the name, Ishould be able to find every
(08:37):
single thing related to them inactually in two spots.
One is Slack, that's all thecommunication about the client,
and then in HubSpot, it tracksall of our emails to the client.
So if I look in those two spots,I should get every single
detail.
I don't have to worry aboutlike, uh, did anyone like text
about this or anything likethat?
We just all go through Slack.
(08:58):
I don't want to dive too longinto just uh one of these
platforms.
I will say Slack is my favorite.
It also feels a little bit fun,but you do kind of need to
tailor back, like sometimes itcan be just like really
distracting.
There's a lot of communication,and with that, what's cool is
you can just mute certainnotifications.
I make it so that mynotifications are muted after um
(09:20):
8 p.m.
So that no one um it doesn'tlike wake me up or something
like that if there's like afire.
Okay, next.
Let's talk about MicrosoftTeams.
So I, full disclosure, I'venever used Microsoft Teams, but
I have seen it.
Uh my brother Steve has used uhTeams for um certain companies
(09:40):
before that he's worked for.
It's very dry, you could say.
It's just like Slack, exceptthere's no fun in it, um, which
makes sense because MicrosoftTeams is for um businesses that
are already really embedded intothe Microsoft ecosystem.
So if you remember, I didactually a breakdown of the best
(10:02):
on uh the Google Suite.
So this is uh Google Docs,Sheets, Slides, Drive, all of
those ones.
And it's kind of like a Coke orPepsi sort of situation.
And if your company is a GoogleSuite type of company, which I
think there's a great argumentthat you should be because it's
(10:24):
free and it's cloud-based, um,you're probably going to want to
use Slack in this case if you'rechoosing between the two.
However, if your entire companyis super uh Microsoft based,
then you're probably likemeaning your company only uses
um what is it, Microsoft Wordand Excel and PowerPoint, then
(10:47):
there's a very good argument tobe made that you should uh
probably go with Teams.
They integrate really well witheach other, there's a native
aspect to it.
Also, if you're paying for likeMicrosoft, I think it's called
365 or something like that, itusually comes with all the other
uh features, and Teams is one ofthem.
(11:09):
Um, I also know that with Teams,you can have like like thousands
of members in the same spacewithout it getting like super
cluttered, and that is one ofthe parts of Slack.
I think that there's like anupper limit to like how I think
Slack's upper limit is like 500or so.
Um, maybe more.
I don't know.
Someone could correct me.
(11:30):
But I'm kind of tailoring thisto like what a small business
use, and most jewelry stores area small business.
Um, I will say that everybodyagrees that Teams is clunky and
that it's um not very funculturally, you might say.
Whereas Slack, it has this kindof innate fun to it.
(11:51):
You know, everything's like nicecolors, you can customize the
colors, you can make it kind offeel like your company, whether
that's fun or not fun.
And Microsoft Teams are a littlebit more dry.
Um, yeah, I guess I don't have aton to add to it.
It's the similarities betweenTeams and Slack are very uh
(12:12):
they're very similar.
And I think the real definingpoint is what does your team use
for um its infrastructure?
If you're a G Suite type ofperson, I'd probably recommend
Slack.
If you're a Microsoft type ofperson, you're probably gonna be
using Teams.
Okay.
Here's another option.
If you are like let's just sayyou're a jewelry store and you
(12:33):
run everything via text, which Ithink is not a great solution in
my humble opinions, unlessthere's only like two of you or
three of you.
Um, another option is Discord.
So Discord to kind of seteverybody on the right foot or
get everyone on the groundwork,it actually started with um
(12:53):
video games and like gaming.
So what's really interestingabout it is that it has the best
voice channels possible.
So this again probably doesn'tnot really applicable to a
jewelry store, but people likeDiscord because the voice aspect
is existing at all times, ifthat makes sense.
(13:15):
So with Slack, if I want tohuddle, which is their version
of like a one-on-one voicechannel, uh, if I want to huddle
with someone, I have to start itand then they have to answer.
It's kind of like a phone call.
Whereas with Discord, the voicechannel always exists.
And if you're in the channel,someone can just pop in and
start talking, and it'll likeyou'll start hearing it.
(13:38):
So that is kind of more like theaspect of being in like
developing culture.
I'd probably say Discord isprobably like the most readily
available for culturedevelopment.
Um, I used to run a uh Discord,and what I thought was cool was
it was easy to enter a Discord.
I used to be in a couple ofthem.
(14:00):
Uh, it would get reallydistracting because I don't like
being in, I don't like having alot of notifications.
Um, but I used to run one forwhen I used to stream my
watercolor paintings, and whatwas nice is it was a way that
you could control thecommunication uh in the
algorithm behind it.
So if I post on Instagram, thenthe algorithm it sometimes my
(14:23):
friends wouldn't even see myart.
Uh, even if they wanted to seemy art, if they didn't look at
art in general, the algorithmmight not serve them mine.
However, when you're in Discord,if they're in my channel and I
post something, they're gonnasee a notification about it.
So that's kind of a strength.
But when it comes to thecommunication, what's also nice
(14:44):
is there's channels in theretoo.
It's very similar to Slack inthat regard.
Um, you can also add a lot ofcustomization and bots to it.
I've been in some Discords thathave the most craziest, way too
expansive bot networks that likeum it almost feels like you're
(15:05):
like a custom piece of liketechnology.
And I think that's what thedifference between like some of
these, you know, tools that aremade for mass communication and
others is that they're made tobe sandbox or flexible.
So out of the box they're okay,but in the box, you know, as you
like build, um, suddenly theybecome very indispensable.
(15:28):
Like with Punchmark, if if wewere to switch away, it would be
it would take me six months ofhard work to like unravel all of
these things.
And I think Discord is very muchlike that.
You can really build someinteresting, cool things, like
you can set up alerts for yeah,anytime someone makes a sale,
anytime anyone visits yourwebsite, you make anytime um the
(15:53):
Yankees score a run.
You can do all those things.
Um, yeah.
The one thing I will say isthere is an aspect of security
between these, the three I'vejust spoken about, between
Slack, Teams, and then Discord.
And I will say everybody agrees,I mean, Teams is by far the most
(16:13):
secure.
Slack is is secure, meaning likeit's hard for the someone to get
in and like steal confidentialinformation.
I will say Discord is not reallywell known for being like super
secure, and it can feel like alittle bit unprofessional at
times, or I guess notunprofessional, non-professional
is the better word.
(16:33):
So I don't know, I think it'sjust uh something to consider
it.
You could also run a Discordpretty successfully with a very
low number of people, um, likeless than 10.
And it's also very uh verygenerous free plan that I would
consider maybe poking around at.
So if you're running like youryour jewelry store, the
(16:55):
communication with all youremployees and like your upper
level, I would probably consideruh and you're using like yeah,
like a group text or somethinglike that, I would strongly
recommend maybe looking at likea Discord or um maybe a Slack,
but probably a Discord first.
Alright, everybody, we're gonnatake a quick break and hear a
(17:15):
word from our sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
(17:38):
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
And we're back.
(17:58):
Next one.
I uh I can't stand this one.
So this one is Gmail.
This is just group Gmail, andthis is what uh I affectionately
refer to as Boomer Group Chat.
And I've talked about the artistguild that I'm a part of, and
uh, so this is like the galleryI share my work at.
(18:20):
It's in my hometown, and I uh wedo a lot of communication in
there, well, you know,organizing stuff, when's the
next meeting, um, newopportunities, and there's 15 of
us, so it's like a basicallylike a 15-person group chat, and
the way we communicate isthrough Gmail.
If I was to open up my emailright now for my personal email,
(18:42):
I'm looking here.
I have one, two, three, four,five, six, seven, eight, nine.
Nine of my top 10 emails aredifferent threads with you know,
with the guild.
And you're just getting constantnumber of emails.
And the thing is, is likethere's no hierarchy to it.
(19:04):
So, like, hierarchy meaning likethreading or or you know, this
is a main post with subsequentposts underneath it, and as a
result, um, if someone asks aquestion, hey, are we gonna have
this meeting?
And someone writes yes, thatnotification comes through like
an like a real full email.
(19:26):
And then if someone else saysyes at the same time, well then
it's yes, yes.
And what if the c theconversation branches?
So let's just say, hey, are wegonna have this meeting and
someone says yes, and someoneelse says yes, and then someone
says, um I don't know, is theregonna be snacks at the meeting?
And then if someone is like, uh,yes, and then someone asks what
(19:49):
kind of snacks there are, well,suddenly the conversation has
three parts to it.
Are we having this meeting?
Are there gonna be snacks?
And what type of snacks shouldwe have?
And suddenly it's chaos.
And we've been doing this, I'vebeen a part of this guild for a
year and a half, and Iabsolutely hate it.
But the thing is, I can't uh getus to migrate out of Gmail
(20:12):
because uh the average age ofthe guild is rather old, it's
like 70s, and I'm the youngest,and I cannot imagine getting
everybody to uh switch on toDiscord or Slack or something.
That that's never going tohappen.
So as a result, we're stuck withGmail, and I just keep getting
(20:33):
more and more emails from them.
Um, it also can make it sort ofeasy to lose certain topics.
So, for example, uh I'm the notetaker at the guild, and whenever
we have um our our meetings,sometimes I'll post the notes
back to everybody.
But what's really difficultabout that is there might be
(20:56):
multiple topics in the notes,and then I do feel like
sometimes people don't answerall of the topics.
And if you were on, for example,Slack or Discord, you could
start a topic.
For example, you know, here'sthe three action items that we
have.
You can make a post about one,two, and then three, and then
(21:18):
people could respond bythreading that's like a topic.
Um, you could thread into thefirst one your answer, the
second one your answer, and thenthe third one.
Um, that's just not possible inGmail, and it just becomes um
pretty chaotic.
So if you're using Gmail toorganize your store and you're
(21:40):
listening to this podcast, whichI'm assuming if you're listening
to this podcast, you're probablymore tech fluent than uh a lot
of the other people that I've Iwork with, then I would consider
not using Gmail and switching toone of these other ones.
Okay, another one.
And this one we're going in likethe sending order of
satisfaction.
(22:01):
This is uh group text.
So this is a good solution whenyou have, I'm going to say, four
or fewer people.
Um, you can get kind of a lot ofstuff done by group chatting,
and especially if you useiMessage, you can respond to
certain things.
I would probably only sayiMessage group chats is um a
(22:23):
viable option for a business ifyeah, you're less than four and
everybody is on an Apple device.
I think that if someone has likea an Android and it breaks the
the group chat aspect of it,which you know, you can't do
iMessage group chats with oneperson on Android, then I would
(22:43):
strongly recommend not doingthis.
I do know one of my friends is abartender at a place in town and
their communication method isvia is via group chat.
That one, it's kind of theydon't have like a lot of high
leverage, high detail kind ofdecision making going into it.
It's more like, hey, are wegonna be open today?
(23:05):
Are we not gonna be open today?
Like who's working today?
Who's can anyone take thisshift?
Can anyone not take this shift?
Whereas with like, you know, atPunchmark, like we might be
working on a single project foryou know a year straight.
And having that topic beself-contained is there's an
advantage to it because then,you know, as you go through a
(23:26):
year, you can scroll back inthat topic.
Whereas in a group chat, youcan't.
Okay, let's move on.
Um, another one I want to atleast bring up, it's called
WhatsApp.
Man, I hate WhatsApp.
I I just hate it.
Um, one thing that's kind ofinteresting.
Did you know that WhatsApp isowned by by Meta, by Facebook,
(23:47):
which I think is kind ofinteresting.
Um, we always forget that.
They bought it for like severalbillion dollars, and um that's
kind of like what a lot of yourmessaging infrastructure is.
Uh, one thing that people uhlike I find it useful for is
communication with internationalpeople.
Um, so I have a friend inArgentina, and anytime we
(24:11):
communicate, uh, we use umWhatsApp, and that's because you
know she has um, you know, anumber that's not a plus one,
you know, US number.
Um, I also find it interestingwhen uh it's useful when people
go to um international uh gotravel internationally.
(24:31):
And for example, my parents theywent to Vietnam, and when they
went to Vietnam, they switchedtheir SIM cards, and by
switching it changed their phonenumber.
And I found it useful to haveeverything in WhatsApp as a
communication method.
But again, this isn't how youshould run a business, I
wouldn't recommend.
Okay, so just to kind of recap,and I would love to hear how
(24:55):
jewelry store infrastructure isworking.
Like, it depends a little bit onhow many employees do you have.
It's also going to depend alittle bit on how high leverage
your discussions are going tobe.
Meaning, like, are things goingto be topic and timeline and
project based?
Or are you just kind of askinglike on a day-to-day basis,
(25:18):
like, hey, are we open?
Are we not open?
So that's gonna help with yourdecision making.
Um, to summarize it, it's kindof like Slack is for organized
work.
Um, again, I'm very partial toit, but that's beside the point.
Teams is for enterprise work,and the people I'm talking to on
this podcast, it's probably notfor you unless you work in like,
(25:41):
you know, one of those bigcompanies that have many, many
um employees in it.
And then Discord is for likeculture development and
real-time collaboration.
And I would actually say it'sgood for a lower number of
employees.
I think you could get away withit with like anywhere between
(26:01):
four or five and fifteen,twenty, th probably twenty.
If you get past twenty, maybestart looking at Slack.
Slack is good for like between Ithink eight or nine, and I don't
know.
I've never reached the upperlimits, 500.
And Microsoft Teams is good forlike, I don't know, up to like
(26:23):
2000.
So those are like uh email isgood for just communication
one-to-one, or maybe even groupone.
Uh, if you would get behind, uhget past one-to-one, I think
that there's so many otheroptions.
I would just recommend youswitch into even texting.
And then um WhatsApp, WhatsAppis good for international stuff
(26:46):
that I might consider.
You know, I think it's one ofthose things, the communication
aspect, um, there's kind of alot of stuff that I'm sort of
interested in about it.
I think it comes from my UXbackground.
What I find fascinating aboutthe communication is that it
doesn't actually come naturallyto everybody, if that makes
(27:09):
sense.
So some of my coworkers, they umare very much heavily reliant on
um voice.
So the CS team at Punchmark doesa lot of group calls and they
work, but they just stay onmute, and then when they have a
question, they ask it.
Where because they needreal-time contextual
(27:29):
information.
So, like it might take you, youknow, five or ten minutes to
type out the context for aquestion, and but you could just
explain it in you know, oneminute of just a quick.
So, do you remember this person?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
The voice aspect is a value, andthat's one of those cool things
about Slack is that they just gothrough a huddle and they do a
(27:52):
long-term huddle together.
Uh, I find it good because uh inSlack, one of the things I've
spent a lot of time on is havingthese specific, team-specific
meetings.
One year, I think it was twoyears ago, I actually um one of
my projects that the bosses gaveto me was I created these
(28:14):
infrastructural channels for thecompany.
So, like I made a team or uh achannel with the bosses, the
three bosses, and eachdepartment, and I made it a
private channel.
So that way they could alwaysask a question in a group
setting.
Because it's important toremember that when you ask a
(28:34):
one-to-one question, thatinformation stops being spread
at one person.
Whereas if you ask a question ina group setting, then that
information is very economical,it is spread across many.
So, for example, let's just sayum your access code for your
store changes, and then if youwere to say, hey, the access
(28:58):
code changed, DM me for the uhfor the code.
Well, suddenly everybody in theplace would have to DM you and
you'd have to explain it tothem, and then it would be one
by one by one, and then that'snot very economical.
Suddenly your time is it's youknow uh related to explaining
(29:22):
that, and that's a hard way tokind of you know digest that
information, but still, if youwere to post it into a group
channel, suddenly everybody isable to learn at like a much
more um exponential rate becausethen it's up to them to just
digest and reach out and findthe information themselves.
(29:42):
So at Punchmark, one thing wehave is an outreach channel for
each department.
So, for example, for the premiumvendor program that I'm leading,
I have um a vendor-outreach.
So this is where everybody elsein the company can ask the
vendor people, that's me, stuffabout vendors.
So anytime there's a new ticket,they ask, they put it into
(30:05):
vendor outreach and they say,Hey Mike, so and so is asking
this question about so and so,and I say, Oh, thanks.
But what's nice about that isyou know, let's just say, you
know, Michael Jewelry vendor isuh is broken.
If someone asks, hey, isso-and-so broken, and I say yes,
then if someone else discoversthat it's broken, they go to
(30:28):
that channel, they see, oh,Michael's jewelry is broken.
Well, suddenly they don't haveto ask again, and then it
actually frees up everybody'stime.
And again, the information ismuch more economical.
This is the kind of thefoundation of um good scaled
communication.
Again, I'm probably I don'tknow.
(30:49):
I wish I knew.
This is not uh something I'mprivy to, what the average
number of employees at all ofour clients is.
And I think it would be veryfascinating to like, yeah, like
see what they're using.
Maybe I'll like think aboutthat.
Maybe I'll send like a surveyout to like our clients, be
like, hey, how many employees doyou have at your store?
(31:09):
And then what do you use yourcommunication method?
Uh, that'd be prettyinteresting.
But maybe if you want to leave acomment on Spotify or email me,
Michael at Punchmark, that'd bekind of interesting.
All that to be said, that wasbreaking down the best on
communication.
And we went over um Slack,Teams, Discord, Group Gmail,
(31:32):
group chats, and WhatsApp.
I hope you enjoyed.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Alright, everybody.
That was the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
This week's episode was broughtto you by Punchmark and produced
(31:53):
and hosted by me, Michael Burpa.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cocker.
Don't forget to rate thispodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts, and leave us feedbackon punchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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