June 23, 2026 • 35 mins
Mike sits down with retail jeweler and podcaster Andy Koehn to talk about why many men feel lost in jewelry stores and what actually helps them buy an engagement ring with confidence. We get into meaning over metrics, why the story matters more than the 4 Cs, and how a simple book became an unexpectedly powerful tool for earning trust and closing sales.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:01):
Welcome back, everybody, to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week we're back.
Sorry about the quick break lastweek.
I had a short week and I wasalso kind of sick.
Uh, we are back with Andy Kanewith the Buy Like a Guy podcast.
(00:21):
It's pretty cool.
I've actually listened to BuyLike a Guy um for a few years
now.
Um, every year I probably wouldlisten to at least one.
And Ross was mentioning it to meand he was like, hey, you know
what?
You should reach out to thisguy.
He's really interesting, and hehas a podcast about the jewelry
industry as well.
And I wanted to get a chance tospeak with him.
He's also a retail jeweler, sohe offers a really unique
perspective to the podcast worldwhere I don't know anything I'm
(00:44):
talking about.
He seems to.
And it's just a really coolconversation to uh talk about
the buying habits of uhtypically men and kind of what
you can do as a retailer to umkind of address those and set
the concerns aside and alsoconvert more.
And he also wrote a book whichis uh really impressive.
It's all about um you knowselling engagement rings or
(01:05):
buying engagement rings.
So I think it's a really funconversation.
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
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And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Great, Michael.
How are you?
I'm doing so well.
So exciting to get a chance tospeak with you.
Uh, whenever I have a guest on,I always, you know, do some
research and do like a littledeep dive on them.
And uh yours was one of the moreinteresting ones because I got
to listen to a podcast and Ilove podcasts.
So uh you've been running uh theBuy Like a Guy podcast for um
quite a while.
(02:45):
Can you kind of maybe set upwhat the the main focus of that
podcast is?
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
Uh yes, absolutely.
And by the way, you're reallygood at what you do, Michael.
Thank you.
Um so yeah, I started thatpodcast because I noticed that a
lot of this, you know, I used towork on the floor a lot.
So I was I was behind the case.
And there were just, you know,repetitive questions that came
(03:10):
up.
And I thought, you know, insteadof re-answering it every single
time, why don't I just record myanswers?
And that's kind of how it wasborn.
And it was definitely um it'sit's uh guy centric.
And if I may, I I I will sayit's because so much of our
industry, in my opinion, uh justtreats men like they're idiots.
(03:34):
And and men are definitely notidiots, they just don't know
about this realm.
And and as I say to guys, likethey only they don't care until
they do.
And then when we care aboutsomething, we just want to know
it, and then we move on.
We move on to what we to what weknow, what we like, what we're
comfortable with.
So um I just have always I Ijust I've noticed over the
(03:56):
years, I've been doing this for34 years, but I really noticed
the guys disappearing from themarketing materials, the
training, and you know, it'sjust it's an evolution, right?
Um, but they've they'vedisappeared.
And it's not because I I justfelt like someone needed to be
talking directly to a guy, youknow.
I'm not trying to keep out otherpeople, you know.
(04:17):
I'm as inclusive as the next.
I just wanted to to focusspecifically on the guy who came
out of the, you know, frombuilding a home, comes in, feels
feels really stupid walking intoa jewelry store.
Yeah.
And and I was like, well, I justneed this guy to feel like, you
(04:38):
know, someone just needs to talkman to man to this guy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
Yeah, or like feel welcoming.
Just because I I sometimes findthat uh the marketing is like
directed at usually women,directed at women, and then it's
like the last sentence of it islike, oh, and like, and tell
your husband, you know, like tocome to come buy this.
And I I kind of feel like Idon't know, it sort of feels
(05:04):
like like we're kind of like uh,you know, an afterthought, or
we're just like a little walkingaround credit card.
And I sort of feel like maybe ifyou market to the guys, maybe
like they would sort of um, Idon't know, feel more in the
driver's seat, but maybe that'snot the case.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
Uh you know, yeah, I I could not agree with you more.
And and you know, I even say it,I know we'll get to this, but I
say it in my book, to the guys,like you're more than just a
wallet, you're not a walkingwallet, man.
You have an opinion, and guysare afraid to give their opinion
because they don't know.
It's like um, and and you know,how much do we actually care?
(05:40):
Some.
I mean, you know, but it's likewe want her, we I say this all
the time.
Uh, we want, you know, to giveher something that we're proud
to give her and that she's proudto wear.
So we do have an opinion, but ofcourse, we definitely want to
know, you know, what is her, youknow, traditionally her um, what
is what does she want?
(06:00):
And then as the guy, I'm like,I'll get it for you.
I will provide that for you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
I'll provide.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's quite an interestingthing though, because I've done
these um these interviews in thepast, which are um, I call them
let's talk with ring buyers.
And I've done, I think six orseven over the years, and uh,
I've done them for every menbuying for men, men buying for
women, women buy for women.
I've done young buyers or secondbuyers or um getting a custom
(06:28):
ring.
But what's so fascinating, allthe different variables you can
throw into the mix, what does itall come down to?
They just want uh to create aring that is representative of
their love and that will not getlaughed at.
And I feel like that kind ofboils down to they just want to
be proud of what it is that theyprovide.
And I think that uh sometimesjewelers get too caught up in
(06:53):
their own sauce.
They think they're so uh theylike want like like the I get
it.
The four C's are as important asan as to the next person.
But sometimes it's like, don'teven muddy the waters.
Let's like, let's talk aboutwhat is actually important to
this person.
And that's what I've tried tostrive for is like, I'm not a
jeweler.
Let's talk about what how thesales process went.
And you'd be surprised.
(07:13):
They don't talk, they don't,they don't sometimes even know
the numbers for these diamonds.
A lot of times they're justlike, yeah, it's uh ring with a
with one diamond.
It's like, oh, what kind of cut?
And they're like, I don't know.
But it's like they're proud ofit and they still feel good
about it.
And I think that that's just soum at the heart.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
I know I make people in you know, contemporaries in
the business who are whom Ithink are great people.
I will say that too.
I independent jewelers are likefreaking hardworking people,
risk takers.
Um, and uh, but I'm not the kindof guy that even I think the
four C's are are just planted onpeople.
Like we're gonna make youbelieve it's really, really
(07:54):
important in the final purchase.
Sure, it affects the price andall that, but uh, I'm just uh
I'm a guy, and I went to GIA,but I'm a guy who's like, ah,
dude, don't even ask it if youdon't care.
I mean, because that's why I'malways like get to somebody who
does know, right?
The podcast, the book, all of itis look, there are professionals
out there.
If I need to have um, I I had toreplace a part of the faucet on
(08:20):
our kitchen sink, right?
And I did the YouTube video, andthen I'm like, this is so out of
my league.
I know it's someone who knowshow to do it, very simple, but
it's like, well, I'm calling aplumber, man.
And and then he can tell me whathe's gonna do, or I just wanted
to work, right?
And then here's my options.
That's what I would like, butnot everyone's like me.
I'm I'm just a I'm theanti-do-it-yourself guy.
(08:42):
I'm like, find someone thatknows what they're doing, pay
them, and then I can do what Ido well, and people can pay me.
Yeah.
Um, so so I just think a lot ofthat stuff, uh, uh guys and and
women too feel like they need toknow about those.
And I'm like, eh, here's alittle bit, but you really don't
need to find someone who'sreally gonna guide you in the
(09:05):
right direction, go to them, uh,connect, let them do that part
for you, let them serve you,right?
That's cliche.
But um, boy, and I look, I'vegotten letters, I've gotten
emails from guys who said,that's really nice, but how do I
find this person, right?
And so then I give them a quickanswer, but but anyway, I'm
(09:27):
getting off track.
But um, it's all right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
I think so.
You in a couple times youmentioned in your podcast, so
like buy like a guy isn't youare a a retail jeweler, however,
it's not exclusively aboutbuying a ring, it expands to
beyond jewelry to um other whatI might consider traditionally
masculine.
However, you know, things arechanging all the time.
(09:50):
But you were at some points youtalked about, I think about
whiskey.
But um, what else does thatexpand to you know, for by like
a guy to uh include?
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Jewelry, so it started obviously it started
with jewelry, but after like 80some episodes talking about
jewelry, I was like, wow, thisis now I really gotta dig deep
to running out of jewelry.
I'm I'm I'm seven years intothis thing.
Yeah.
So then I went to watches, whichis is a really and I've had some
cool watch guests on.
(10:20):
Yeah.
And then I'm like, oh geez, youknow, uh bourbon, you know, I
I'm really intrigued by bourbon.
So I had a bourbon guy come on.
Cool.
Um, and this is a little bitdicey, but I had a gun guy come
on because there are guys whowant to know how to buy a gun.
Yeah.
And it should expand out fromthere, but I still have this day
job.
(10:40):
And uh honestly, I'm gettinggeeked about it again, just
talking to you about it.
I'm like, oh my God, there's somuch out there that it'd be nice
to, I mean, even the bourbonworld alone and watches alone
could be a whole season, right?
Could be a whole year.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Watches are such a cool industry, too, because I
feel like they're it, it'salmost like the rules of jewelry
sometimes it's almost likethey're suspended.
Like they don't, they don'talways apply.
Where it's not just about uh alot of times when it comes to uh
to jewelry, it's like how muchmaterial is in this thing?
What is the market price of thegemstones and the stones and
(11:19):
things like that?
And then, like, yes, there's alittle bit of markup, but uh you
know, uh on top of it for likethe craftsmanship and everything
like that.
But in the end, like what areyou paying for?
It's a lot of times it's thematerial and the brand
sometimes.
Um, but same thing with watches,it's like it's not as much about
the material, like a lot of thetimes it's about no, it's while
it works, but it's also like thebrand, but it's also like how
(11:41):
cool are they, how durable arethey?
There's a lot more rules to orum uh variables to it, and I I
find that really inspiring.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
I I think the watch world is fascinating.
I mean, it is, and it's it's notan easy I mean, it's easy to get
one, it's easy to enter, butgeez, how do you know?
You know, I mean, like just I Istarted with like looking into
Rolexes, and then and that isjust a world unto itself.
And then I had a guy on, hisname is Tim Jackson, amazing
(12:11):
guy.
He knows so much about theindependent watch industry where
these small uh companies makemaybe a hundred watches a year,
and it's like wow, that's crazy.
And and and and that I find solike maybe the workmanship of it
is just really, really cool.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
Yeah, so in the fact that they like are just these
little machines.
I think that there's somethingum like I've always found them
to be like the closest thing tomagic that humans have ever
created is like uh have you everseen a you know, those watch
cogs that are like the size oflike a grain of sand?
Like they're incredible.
And how do you time it out?
Yeah, I have no idea.
(12:48):
It's so funny.
They created watches likehundreds of years ago, and I
still don't really know how theywork.
Same thing with a zipper, but Imean that goes beside the point.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
I know how Velcro started.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah, from Burr's, right?
Everyone does, yeah.
Yeah, that's so cool.
But at the same time, what sortof things um I've learned a ton
of things through the podcast,but I almost keep myself um
intentionally a novice, if thatmakes any sense.
Granted, I am a novice, but it'salmost like I would love to be
in the seat of a of a student.
(13:21):
Um, I can only imagine you'velearned quite a bit as well.
Um, is there anything thatyou've like you've you you might
have learned through yourpodcast?
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
This is not jewelry related or watch related, but
I've learned how important thedefinitely the story behind the
piece is.
And the story begins with theclient when they get it.
And then the and then so so totalk about all the materials and
(13:48):
the workmanship and all of that,that's great.
But I think it's I think myfavorite part about all of it is
what does it go, where does itgo from there?
So for example, a guy gets awedding band, and and and that
wedding band is with him throughthe ups, the downs, the fights,
the babies, the all of thethings.
And so it's not like we sit andponder our wedding bands, but
(14:12):
but there's a lot of um power inthat band when you see it on a
finger, or when I look at mineand the scratches and all that
other stuff, you know, it isimportant what it's made of, but
boy, that's just kind of theleaping off point for like the
person who ends up acquiring it.
And then you fast forward andgo, because life is fast, it
(14:32):
goes so fast, and then you fastforward and you go, Okay, uh,
I'm leaving this world and andwhat I've left behind, um, you
know, maybe people keep books,maybe they but they don't keep
shoes and clothes and glass, butthey keep the jewelry, yeah.
And and the jewelry is such agreat uh tie to that previous
(14:54):
person that that we that weknew, and it doesn't replace
them, but it sure is a greatmaterial touchstone to what to
you know, and I I so so whileit's easy to get lost in the
money of jewelry and and I wantto sell shit, it's I think it's
really, really important toremember why we're doing it.
(15:16):
And it's just almost soundscliche, but it's where the
meaning is for me.
And so, so why is the thepodcast or the book even exist?
Well, because I don't wantsomeone to overthink the
materials, I'd rather they theyremember why they're doing it in
the first place.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
That's a great way to kind of summate it.
Uh, I've had a reallyinteresting experience over
these past bunch of years intalking to retailers.
I find whenever you talk you getlike a little bit deeper with uh
with a jeweler, you see theirlove of jewelry kind of show up.
And I'm like, oh man, this is socool! Like, yes, we're all
(15:51):
talking about SEO and friggin' Aguy and all that kind of stuff.
And sometimes, like, it's likeso much noise in the room.
But then when you just strip itall back and you talk to a
jeweler, oh my gosh, like theyare still so passionate about
it.
Like you ask them, you know,what's a memorable sale that
you've made?
And they could tell you one fromliterally last week where they
(16:12):
sold it to, you know, um abaptism gift or you know, so and
they just have them ready to go.
And I still that's why I'm stillthinking like in a weird world
where technology is changing allthe time, I do feel like jewelry
is kind of here to here to stay.
I think it's gonna be here for awhile.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
I I would argue it's a necessity.
I think I even have an episodeabout that.
I I do, in fact, I do believejewelry is a necessity.
It's it's sold as a versus aluxury.
Wow.
I think it's a necessity.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Can you can you make your uh take your stance on
that?
I would love to.
I've always argued that at itscore principle, it is a luxury.
Um it is uh is a want, not aneed.
But I guess I did just say thatthat's kind of isn't the case.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Uh to me, it's like it's like art or music or fine
literature or whatever.
You know, we we we tend in thisworld, we really like to boil
things down to spreadsheets anddollars and measuring.
And the most important things inlife are immeasurable.
And I think jewelry to, youknow, like we said, you know,
you provide it.
There's a there's a certain umwe cannot enunciate what it
(17:19):
means to give it, and thereceiver can't enunciate what it
really means to receive it, andand those are the things that
are beyond our minds, and Ithink our lives without those
things really are pretty boringor awful.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
But no, right on the ADK talks.
Yeah, well, I think that's sofascinating.
That is uh a nice way to frameit.
I've always just felt that yeah,why what is the difference
between art and jewelry?
I guess I don't really have thehave the words to kind of take
that stance.
I'm a um and it I call considermyself a semi-professional
watercolor painter.
Um, that's my you know secondcareer on the side.
(17:59):
And but the same thing with withart, I always joke that like
there's no um, there's no magicin the paper, man.
It's it in the end, it's just apiece of paper with pigment on
top of it.
And uh, I hope you enjoy it.
But at the same time, it's theclosest thing to alchemy that we
have.
I take paper and I take pigmentand I turn it into, you know,
hopefully a lot of money.
And the same thing with jewelryis like, um, yeah, like with
(18:22):
watches, you're taking steel,which could be, you know, could
be rebar that you put in theinside of your house, and you're
making these tiny little cogsthat work together and tell
time, and you charge a lot moremoney as opposed to the
materials.
So yeah, I think that there islike kind of like probably it's
the human element.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
Again, it sounds so cliche.
I'm just probably repeatingthings I've heard over the
years, but oh, I love it.
Let's get into it.
It must be that, it must bethat.
Like it encapsulates, like wedon't think of the person making
it, you know, but ultimately ahuman being made it like like
it's okay.
You're an artist.
I've seen these freaking videosof oh, look at how this water
jet from AI can can create thissculpture.
(19:02):
And you're like, Well, what thehell is that?
Who who cares?
Like, like isn't it much coolerto to have this person who
spent, you know, I read thingsabout Michelangelo and and
hundreds, thousands of hours.
It's incredible, yeah, it'sincredible.
And it's like, well, there'sdeep meaning in that somehow.
(19:22):
Um so maybe I don't know, maybeit's this again, it's it's
inexplicable, but um, yeah, I'mglad to hear most jewelers feel
the same way.
I I do believe that because I'vebeen at bars with them after the
shows, and that's what we talkabout.
We first we talk about money andthen money and business, and
then we talk about the cool art.
Two, three drinks in, we like,oh my god, you should have heard
(19:44):
yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
Yeah.
So and I love that.
And that's one of those thoseparts.
Uh, there's these weird aspectsof the jewelry industry that um
every time I bump into them, Iam so pleased that they still
exist.
One of them is how remarkablytransparent retailers are
amongst each other, that there'suh a real seeming lack of uh
gatekeeping for a lot of peoplewhen it comes to not just
(20:06):
business marketing and strategy,but like also just what trends
like, hey, what are you sellinga lot of?
What are you selling a lot of?
Yes.
But also I find um that jewelersjust really like jewelers.
And I think that's part of thereason why why we're all here is
because if this was just a dayjob, um, I don't know.
I think that it would it'spretty hard.
I feel like there's easier waysto make money than than just in
(20:27):
jewelry, but I guess that'sthat's that's just my thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Yeah, no, you're uh you're you're right.
And I mean it's it's it's thebest and worst job in the world,
you know.
We're very lucky.
I think we all again at the endof the night, when it's last
call, we all agree, uh, wow, wehave a great, we we are working
in a great profession.
And I think I I definitely knowthat we know it.
And it's funny because when yousaid that, I'm like, it's it's
(20:51):
weird that that jewelers havethis reputation of ripping
people off.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
And it's like, shit, not the ones I know, the ones I
know are given great deals andthey they throw in free stuff
and they want experience to feelwhite love.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
Yeah, it's amazing.
And it doesn't matter if they ifthey have a$20 million store or
a$200,000 store for the mostpart.
It's just like, no, I justreally want my clients to love
me, and I'll here's how I'mgonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Yeah.
But Andy, we're gonna take aquick break, and when we come
back, I want to hear about yourbook and how it's um influenced
your store.
So everybody, stay with us.
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Thanks and back to the show.
Alright, everybody.
Still speaking with Andy Kanefrom Buy Like a Guy.
So Andy, you are a retailjewelry.
Where are you based out of, ifyou don't mind me asking?
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
We are in a beautiful little town called
West Bend, Wisconsin.
It's about 30 minutes north ofMilwaukee.
SPEAKER_02 (23:15):
Oh, super cool.
And I was just telling youbefore we jumped on the podcast,
I'm a big uh Gloom Bay Packersfan.
So uh that's really cool.
And I wanted to ask, so uh youwrote a book.
You're um an author.
And it sounds like Buy Like aGuy, your book, and being a
retail jeweler um all sort of gohand in hand, similar kind of um
(23:36):
past experiences and flavor.
Could you talk about your bookand and um what prompted you to
write it?
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Sure.
So so the book is called TheInappropriate Guide to Buying an
Engagement Ring.
And again, it is definitelytargeted at men, although anyone
can read it.
Um, and the way it started is Ihad uh a woman working here, and
she was she came to me one dayand said, Hey, can you like
write down the things that yousay when you're with a client
(24:04):
because they just sound so goodand I want to I want to talk
like that?
And I'm like, Yeah, sure, noproblem.
So uh I started writing it uhdown, and I'm like, okay, this
has just gone from a salesmanual to a book that anybody
could read.
Oh, cool.
Um, and the title came becauseyou know, I don't know if you
(24:24):
write, but when you write, yougotta go, yeah, go like free
form, right?
Like any everything you'rethinking should just fly into
that page.
Yeah.
Like, oh man, some of thisstuff's really inappropriate.
I don't know.
And I'm like, oh, okay, that'swhat I'm gonna call this.
Yeah.
Um, and so it's it's basicallymy way of telling, you know,
(24:45):
well, like it says, how to buyan engagement.
If a guy's sitting and I I did,I was talking to this guy
sitting next to me, but he, youknow, here, because it it does
happen, right?
They they go, oh, you're ajeweler.
Okay, so so all right, howwhat's the best way to buy a
ring?
You know, what should I do so Idon't get ripped off?
And I'm like, first off, noone's out to rip you off.
Second off, buy me a beer andI'll tell you.
(25:06):
And so that's so that's sort ofthe the the little journey
that's in the book, is I'm like,okay, we're four beers in.
Now I'm gonna tell you thispart.
Um, it's only 85 pages long, um,and it's it's there's not a
whole lot of fluff.
It's very direct guy-to-guytalk, and uh it's been well
received.
SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
That's super cool.
And was the the process ofwriting it um must have been at
least entirely formed from yourexperiences of like um having
these kind of conversations withmen.
Um, did you is was this whileyou were making your podcast or
before?
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Um it was it was during.
So and and a lot of the materialcame from like I was like kind
of looking back.
So again, you're a podcaster,right?
I don't so yours is veryunscripted.
Mine is just me, and so I haveto have it, I have to write it
out first, right?
Interesting.
So for me, when I was when I sitdown to do a podcast, um, if I
have a 10-minute podcast, whichis long for my podcast, um, I
(26:08):
bet you I have eight hours, ninehours of writing.
And so I had all that material.
That's a lot of writing.
Yeah, so I took all that stuff.
Well, you know, because yougotta edit.
Yeah, you gotta get it down tothat however long.
I told you I'm long-winded, youshould see me writing.
Uh so so uh so yeah, so I hadall that stuff, and I'm like,
(26:29):
I'm gonna start compiling thisinto this book.
So I so so I did have a lot ofit, you know, in place, and then
I just really had to edit itdown to the book, and then I
think again, it's what do youleave out is more important than
what you leave in.
Um, so yeah, so I did it uhbased, you know, it's really
(26:49):
loosely based on the podcast andthen compiled into one thing.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
So so and you were telling telling me that you used
it as like almost like a um likea leave behind or like a sales
tool.
Uh so how did it fit into yourlike your engagement ring
selling process?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Like where here's how that happened.
I just wrote it because youknow, everyone wants to write a
book.
Maybe you've said to yourself,someday I'm gonna write it off,
right?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I'm like, all right, fine.
Uh this wasn't the book Iexpected to write.
That's coming out later thisyear.
No, um, so this isn't the one Iexpected to write, and I wrote
it, fine, it's on Amazon, andthen it's so then I get like the
(27:24):
copies for families and friends,and they're sitting on my desk.
And then I I'm listening to oneof my salespeople.
She's talking to this guy.
He's like, Okay, uh, cool, I'mgonna think about it.
Every jeweler has heard that.
All right, let me think aboutit.
I'm like, I'm gonna go get abook.
So I went, so I went, ranupstairs, got the book, gave it
to him, and said, Hey, thismight help you.
(27:45):
And he sees the title, helaughs.
Yeah, he's like, Ah, cool, man.
Thanks.
You know, it's like this coolgift.
So he leaves, and I'm like,like, this is a far better
marketing tool.
That's not how it started thanany business card, any brochure
I could have handed that guy atthe moment.
Yeah, so um, you know, he comesback four days later.
(28:06):
He actually read it.
Whoa, I know.
Most guys do not read it, theytake it, but they don't read it.
Um, but anyway, he came back,he's like, this was amazing.
He's like, and I felt so goodbecause he's like, I laughed.
I'm like, oh, good, because someof the jokes are a little bit
dicey.
He's like, no, dude, it'sperfect.
Um, so anyway, that's that's howthat was born.
(28:28):
And ever since then, um, that'swhere I was like, that was a
light bulb moment.
I'm like, well, why aren't wejust giving this to every every
legit person who's like, we'vemade some headway.
Yeah, they're gonna leave.
How about we leave with them?
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
And you know what?
It's such a talk about you know,a leave behind.
I mean, you get a a businesscard, you know, everybody has
business cards.
It might end up in the trashlike as they're walking out the
door.
But a book, probably a lot lesslikely to lose it.
And even if you don't read it,you definitely kind of like feel
like you should read it.
(29:07):
And I think that talk about justa really solid leave behind.
I think that's really it isincredible.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
It's an incredible gift that we found.
No, uh secondly, um, they don'teven know I wrote it.
Like I'm not on the flooranymore.
The girls just give it and andand I I watch it, I hear it,
they're just like, ah, thanks,you know?
And and they don't throw itaway.
Eight eight out of nine guysdon't read it, but doesn't
(29:34):
matter.
It just doesn't matter.
It's not the point.
And and those that do, um,definitely come back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So have you ever done like a cost analysis on
that of like, you know, cost perbook, per um conversion, and see
how much money it costs toconvert one sale?
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
I have.
Oh, you have?
That's uh I wish I had thatnumber at my it's on my I have a
buy like a guy website and I putit right out there for jewelers.
I have a little jeweler sectionthere.
Um the risk the return rate islike the ROI is something like
twenty-five thousand percent orsomething like that.
It's just like well, for all thethings we spend on marketing,
(30:13):
right?
Um just to get them in the door,then then we have their time
with them.
I mean, I think the book costs ajeweler like 10 bucks, which
sounds like a lot of money, butplease, what's the average
engagement ring going for?
And and and and to set yourselfapart.
I know I'm getting preachybecause I I just I noticed it
(30:33):
working, and I'm like, okay,this doesn't say come to my
jewelry store.
This says whoever literally inthe first few pages it says if
you if you're reading this now,the person that gave it to you
is your guy.
This is your guy to go buy thering from.
And and so, so but that thatgoes along with my buy like a
(30:54):
guy thing.
I just feel like it's for allindependent jewelers.
I I think our industry, we wealready talked about it.
Great people.
That's if someone's gonna buy aring, it needs to be from a a
solid independent, it does notneed to be from a big box.
I'm sorry if you deal with them,but um, I love indies.
SPEAKER_02 (31:10):
Me too.
I think that that's who we'refighting for.
That's who uh that's at leastthe the side I like to fight
for.
And um, I think that's a reallyuh a cool leave behind idea
because uh we've done different,various different leave behinds
in the past, and uh I think thatthere is something to be said
about like you know, a reallysolid one that kind of sticks
with you.
(31:31):
It's not until you go to, ifyou've ever been to JCK, you go
to JCK and they have those uhlike giant billboards or pop-ups
or whatever in the lobby of umof the of the of the casino when
you're going in and it just sayslike buy these diamonds.
Do you know how much thosethings cost?
It cost like a million dollarsor$750,000 for that banner.
(31:51):
And it's just like you know, itand that's just for the chance
for you to think of them when itcomes to buying your diamonds.
And then it's just like, yeah,giving someone a book, having
something, worst case scenario,it they feel worse, uh, you
know, about not reading it.
And then maybe they'll come backand in the future and get their
engagement ring, or or maybenot, maybe an anniversary um
(32:12):
gift.
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
So that's really we found it rich sweet.
We love it.
It's it's just um again,accidental.
I feel I feel reallybraggadocious.
I'm not trying to say that.
It's just um, you know, you findsomething great and you just
want the world to know about it.
Like, you got this.
Look, look what I discovered.
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Hey, sometimes you know what?
I'm I'm I'm that way.
Sometimes I like I I make a nicepainting and I'm like, you know
what?
I really want some people to seethis.
And it's like, I'll send it tosome of my friends.
I'm just like, hey, isn't thiscool?
And it's like, it's notbragging, it's just you know,
sometimes we need a little bitof uh well, creatives are not
the best self-promoters, that'sfor sure.
That's for sure.
Yeah, amen.
(32:50):
Um, Andy, if people want tolearn, let's just start with uh
with with the book.
Where would they go if theywanted to learn more about your
book or maybe even grab a copythemselves?
SPEAKER_01 (32:58):
So yeah, I put up a site just for this.
Honestly, it's it's at uh theinappropriate guide.com.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
The inappropriate guide.com.
Love that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
So I have some stats up there.
Um and and again, it's it's justreally fun.
And and I I have a uh a bookthat I would recommend to
everybody.
It's called uh Get Different.
It's by Mike McHallowitz.
And and it just so happens thatafter I had this book, I'm like,
oh cool, I have this.
And it's like, how do you standout as a retailer these days?
(33:29):
I guess some of these giganticstores really help.
Um but even at that, man, evenat that, it just isn't it's how
we started this too.
It's person to person.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
I agree.
And and you know what?
So speaking of person to person,if people were interested in um
hearing your podcast, um buylike a guy, uh, where would they
go?
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
You can go anywhere you listen to podcasts, it's on
Spotify, Apple, just go to buylike a guy and pop up.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:56):
Well, thank you so much, Andy.
I really appreciate your time.
It's uh it's really cool to beacross from a podcaster.
Not many.
I've you know that I'm creepingup on 300 episodes, and I don't
know if I've interviewed anypodcasters.
So you get to be in rare air.
So um I really appreciate yourtime.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
Yeah, you are again, I'm gonna repeat this.
You're really good at this.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Oh, thanks.
Thanks, Andy.
And you know what?
If my boss is listening, youheard it here.
So I appreciate you all.
Absolutely.
Turn make that louder.
I appreciate that.
Thank you again.
Um, everybody, we'll be backnext week, Tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
(34:38):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was Andy Kanewith the Buy Like a Guy podcast.
Make sure you check him out inthe show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(35:00):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome back, everybody, to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week we're back.
Sorry about the quick break lastweek.
I had a short week and I wasalso kind of sick.
Uh, we are back with Andy Kanewith the Buy Like a Guy podcast.
(00:21):
It's pretty cool.
I've actually listened to BuyLike a Guy um for a few years
now.
Um, every year I probably wouldlisten to at least one.
And Ross was mentioning it to meand he was like, hey, you know
what?
You should reach out to thisguy.
He's really interesting, and hehas a podcast about the jewelry
industry as well.
And I wanted to get a chance tospeak with him.
He's also a retail jeweler, sohe offers a really unique
perspective to the podcast worldwhere I don't know anything I'm
(00:44):
talking about.
He seems to.
And it's just a really coolconversation to uh talk about
the buying habits of uhtypically men and kind of what
you can do as a retailer to umkind of address those and set
the concerns aside and alsoconvert more.
And he also wrote a book whichis uh really impressive.
It's all about um you knowselling engagement rings or
(01:05):
buying engagement rings.
So I think it's a really funconversation.
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:35):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:57):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Great, Michael.
How are you?
I'm doing so well.
So exciting to get a chance tospeak with you.
Uh, whenever I have a guest on,I always, you know, do some
research and do like a littledeep dive on them.
And uh yours was one of the moreinteresting ones because I got
to listen to a podcast and Ilove podcasts.
So uh you've been running uh theBuy Like a Guy podcast for um
quite a while.
(02:45):
Can you kind of maybe set upwhat the the main focus of that
podcast is?
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
Uh yes, absolutely.
And by the way, you're reallygood at what you do, Michael.
Thank you.
Um so yeah, I started thatpodcast because I noticed that a
lot of this, you know, I used towork on the floor a lot.
So I was I was behind the case.
And there were just, you know,repetitive questions that came
(03:10):
up.
And I thought, you know, insteadof re-answering it every single
time, why don't I just record myanswers?
And that's kind of how it wasborn.
And it was definitely um it'sit's uh guy centric.
And if I may, I I I will sayit's because so much of our
industry, in my opinion, uh justtreats men like they're idiots.
(03:34):
And and men are definitely notidiots, they just don't know
about this realm.
And and as I say to guys, likethey only they don't care until
they do.
And then when we care aboutsomething, we just want to know
it, and then we move on.
We move on to what we to what weknow, what we like, what we're
comfortable with.
So um I just have always I Ijust I've noticed over the
(03:56):
years, I've been doing this for34 years, but I really noticed
the guys disappearing from themarketing materials, the
training, and you know, it'sjust it's an evolution, right?
Um, but they've they'vedisappeared.
And it's not because I I justfelt like someone needed to be
talking directly to a guy, youknow.
I'm not trying to keep out otherpeople, you know.
(04:17):
I'm as inclusive as the next.
I just wanted to to focusspecifically on the guy who came
out of the, you know, frombuilding a home, comes in, feels
feels really stupid walking intoa jewelry store.
Yeah.
And and I was like, well, I justneed this guy to feel like, you
(04:38):
know, someone just needs to talkman to man to this guy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
Yeah, or like feel welcoming.
Just because I I sometimes findthat uh the marketing is like
directed at usually women,directed at women, and then it's
like the last sentence of it islike, oh, and like, and tell
your husband, you know, like tocome to come buy this.
And I I kind of feel like Idon't know, it sort of feels
(05:04):
like like we're kind of like uh,you know, an afterthought, or
we're just like a little walkingaround credit card.
And I sort of feel like maybe ifyou market to the guys, maybe
like they would sort of um, Idon't know, feel more in the
driver's seat, but maybe that'snot the case.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
Uh you know, yeah, I I could not agree with you more.
And and you know, I even say it,I know we'll get to this, but I
say it in my book, to the guys,like you're more than just a
wallet, you're not a walkingwallet, man.
You have an opinion, and guysare afraid to give their opinion
because they don't know.
It's like um, and and you know,how much do we actually care?
(05:40):
Some.
I mean, you know, but it's likewe want her, we I say this all
the time.
Uh, we want, you know, to giveher something that we're proud
to give her and that she's proudto wear.
So we do have an opinion, but ofcourse, we definitely want to
know, you know, what is her, youknow, traditionally her um, what
is what does she want?
(06:00):
And then as the guy, I'm like,I'll get it for you.
I will provide that for you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
I'll provide.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's quite an interestingthing though, because I've done
these um these interviews in thepast, which are um, I call them
let's talk with ring buyers.
And I've done, I think six orseven over the years, and uh,
I've done them for every menbuying for men, men buying for
women, women buy for women.
I've done young buyers or secondbuyers or um getting a custom
(06:28):
ring.
But what's so fascinating, allthe different variables you can
throw into the mix, what does itall come down to?
They just want uh to create aring that is representative of
their love and that will not getlaughed at.
And I feel like that kind ofboils down to they just want to
be proud of what it is that theyprovide.
And I think that uh sometimesjewelers get too caught up in
(06:53):
their own sauce.
They think they're so uh theylike want like like the I get
it.
The four C's are as important asan as to the next person.
But sometimes it's like, don'teven muddy the waters.
Let's like, let's talk aboutwhat is actually important to
this person.
And that's what I've tried tostrive for is like, I'm not a
jeweler.
Let's talk about what how thesales process went.
And you'd be surprised.
(07:13):
They don't talk, they don't,they don't sometimes even know
the numbers for these diamonds.
A lot of times they're justlike, yeah, it's uh ring with a
with one diamond.
It's like, oh, what kind of cut?
And they're like, I don't know.
But it's like they're proud ofit and they still feel good
about it.
And I think that that's just soum at the heart.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
I know I make people in you know, contemporaries in
the business who are whom Ithink are great people.
I will say that too.
I independent jewelers are likefreaking hardworking people,
risk takers.
Um, and uh, but I'm not the kindof guy that even I think the
four C's are are just planted onpeople.
Like we're gonna make youbelieve it's really, really
(07:54):
important in the final purchase.
Sure, it affects the price andall that, but uh, I'm just uh
I'm a guy, and I went to GIA,but I'm a guy who's like, ah,
dude, don't even ask it if youdon't care.
I mean, because that's why I'malways like get to somebody who
does know, right?
The podcast, the book, all of itis look, there are professionals
out there.
If I need to have um, I I had toreplace a part of the faucet on
(08:20):
our kitchen sink, right?
And I did the YouTube video, andthen I'm like, this is so out of
my league.
I know it's someone who knowshow to do it, very simple, but
it's like, well, I'm calling aplumber, man.
And and then he can tell me whathe's gonna do, or I just wanted
to work, right?
And then here's my options.
That's what I would like, butnot everyone's like me.
I'm I'm just a I'm theanti-do-it-yourself guy.
(08:42):
I'm like, find someone thatknows what they're doing, pay
them, and then I can do what Ido well, and people can pay me.
Yeah.
Um, so so I just think a lot ofthat stuff, uh, uh guys and and
women too feel like they need toknow about those.
And I'm like, eh, here's alittle bit, but you really don't
need to find someone who'sreally gonna guide you in the
(09:05):
right direction, go to them, uh,connect, let them do that part
for you, let them serve you,right?
That's cliche.
But um, boy, and I look, I'vegotten letters, I've gotten
emails from guys who said,that's really nice, but how do I
find this person, right?
And so then I give them a quickanswer, but but anyway, I'm
(09:27):
getting off track.
But um, it's all right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:29):
I think so.
You in a couple times youmentioned in your podcast, so
like buy like a guy isn't youare a a retail jeweler, however,
it's not exclusively aboutbuying a ring, it expands to
beyond jewelry to um other whatI might consider traditionally
masculine.
However, you know, things arechanging all the time.
(09:50):
But you were at some points youtalked about, I think about
whiskey.
But um, what else does thatexpand to you know, for by like
a guy to uh include?
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Jewelry, so it started obviously it started
with jewelry, but after like 80some episodes talking about
jewelry, I was like, wow, thisis now I really gotta dig deep
to running out of jewelry.
I'm I'm I'm seven years intothis thing.
Yeah.
So then I went to watches, whichis is a really and I've had some
cool watch guests on.
(10:20):
Yeah.
And then I'm like, oh geez, youknow, uh bourbon, you know, I
I'm really intrigued by bourbon.
So I had a bourbon guy come on.
Cool.
Um, and this is a little bitdicey, but I had a gun guy come
on because there are guys whowant to know how to buy a gun.
Yeah.
And it should expand out fromthere, but I still have this day
job.
(10:40):
And uh honestly, I'm gettinggeeked about it again, just
talking to you about it.
I'm like, oh my God, there's somuch out there that it'd be nice
to, I mean, even the bourbonworld alone and watches alone
could be a whole season, right?
Could be a whole year.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Watches are such a cool industry, too, because I
feel like they're it, it'salmost like the rules of jewelry
sometimes it's almost likethey're suspended.
Like they don't, they don'talways apply.
Where it's not just about uh alot of times when it comes to uh
to jewelry, it's like how muchmaterial is in this thing?
What is the market price of thegemstones and the stones and
(11:19):
things like that?
And then, like, yes, there's alittle bit of markup, but uh you
know, uh on top of it for likethe craftsmanship and everything
like that.
But in the end, like what areyou paying for?
It's a lot of times it's thematerial and the brand
sometimes.
Um, but same thing with watches,it's like it's not as much about
the material, like a lot of thetimes it's about no, it's while
it works, but it's also like thebrand, but it's also like how
(11:41):
cool are they, how durable arethey?
There's a lot more rules to orum uh variables to it, and I I
find that really inspiring.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
I I think the watch world is fascinating.
I mean, it is, and it's it's notan easy I mean, it's easy to get
one, it's easy to enter, butgeez, how do you know?
You know, I mean, like just I Istarted with like looking into
Rolexes, and then and that isjust a world unto itself.
And then I had a guy on, hisname is Tim Jackson, amazing
(12:11):
guy.
He knows so much about theindependent watch industry where
these small uh companies makemaybe a hundred watches a year,
and it's like wow, that's crazy.
And and and and that I find solike maybe the workmanship of it
is just really, really cool.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
Yeah, so in the fact that they like are just these
little machines.
I think that there's somethingum like I've always found them
to be like the closest thing tomagic that humans have ever
created is like uh have you everseen a you know, those watch
cogs that are like the size oflike a grain of sand?
Like they're incredible.
And how do you time it out?
Yeah, I have no idea.
(12:48):
It's so funny.
They created watches likehundreds of years ago, and I
still don't really know how theywork.
Same thing with a zipper, but Imean that goes beside the point.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
I know how Velcro started.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah, from Burr's, right?
Everyone does, yeah.
Yeah, that's so cool.
But at the same time, what sortof things um I've learned a ton
of things through the podcast,but I almost keep myself um
intentionally a novice, if thatmakes any sense.
Granted, I am a novice, but it'salmost like I would love to be
in the seat of a of a student.
(13:21):
Um, I can only imagine you'velearned quite a bit as well.
Um, is there anything thatyou've like you've you you might
have learned through yourpodcast?
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
This is not jewelry related or watch related, but
I've learned how important thedefinitely the story behind the
piece is.
And the story begins with theclient when they get it.
And then the and then so so totalk about all the materials and
(13:48):
the workmanship and all of that,that's great.
But I think it's I think myfavorite part about all of it is
what does it go, where does itgo from there?
So for example, a guy gets awedding band, and and and that
wedding band is with him throughthe ups, the downs, the fights,
the babies, the all of thethings.
And so it's not like we sit andponder our wedding bands, but
(14:12):
but there's a lot of um power inthat band when you see it on a
finger, or when I look at mineand the scratches and all that
other stuff, you know, it isimportant what it's made of, but
boy, that's just kind of theleaping off point for like the
person who ends up acquiring it.
And then you fast forward andgo, because life is fast, it
(14:32):
goes so fast, and then you fastforward and you go, Okay, uh,
I'm leaving this world and andwhat I've left behind, um, you
know, maybe people keep books,maybe they but they don't keep
shoes and clothes and glass, butthey keep the jewelry, yeah.
And and the jewelry is such agreat uh tie to that previous
(14:54):
person that that we that weknew, and it doesn't replace
them, but it sure is a greatmaterial touchstone to what to
you know, and I I so so whileit's easy to get lost in the
money of jewelry and and I wantto sell shit, it's I think it's
really, really important toremember why we're doing it.
(15:16):
And it's just almost soundscliche, but it's where the
meaning is for me.
And so, so why is the thepodcast or the book even exist?
Well, because I don't wantsomeone to overthink the
materials, I'd rather they theyremember why they're doing it in
the first place.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
That's a great way to kind of summate it.
Uh, I've had a reallyinteresting experience over
these past bunch of years intalking to retailers.
I find whenever you talk you getlike a little bit deeper with uh
with a jeweler, you see theirlove of jewelry kind of show up.
And I'm like, oh man, this is socool! Like, yes, we're all
(15:51):
talking about SEO and friggin' Aguy and all that kind of stuff.
And sometimes, like, it's likeso much noise in the room.
But then when you just strip itall back and you talk to a
jeweler, oh my gosh, like theyare still so passionate about
it.
Like you ask them, you know,what's a memorable sale that
you've made?
And they could tell you one fromliterally last week where they
(16:12):
sold it to, you know, um abaptism gift or you know, so and
they just have them ready to go.
And I still that's why I'm stillthinking like in a weird world
where technology is changing allthe time, I do feel like jewelry
is kind of here to here to stay.
I think it's gonna be here for awhile.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
I I would argue it's a necessity.
I think I even have an episodeabout that.
I I do, in fact, I do believejewelry is a necessity.
It's it's sold as a versus aluxury.
Wow.
I think it's a necessity.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Can you can you make your uh take your stance on
that?
I would love to.
I've always argued that at itscore principle, it is a luxury.
Um it is uh is a want, not aneed.
But I guess I did just say thatthat's kind of isn't the case.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Uh to me, it's like it's like art or music or fine
literature or whatever.
You know, we we we tend in thisworld, we really like to boil
things down to spreadsheets anddollars and measuring.
And the most important things inlife are immeasurable.
And I think jewelry to, youknow, like we said, you know,
you provide it.
There's a there's a certain umwe cannot enunciate what it
(17:19):
means to give it, and thereceiver can't enunciate what it
really means to receive it, andand those are the things that
are beyond our minds, and Ithink our lives without those
things really are pretty boringor awful.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
But no, right on the ADK talks.
Yeah, well, I think that's sofascinating.
That is uh a nice way to frameit.
I've always just felt that yeah,why what is the difference
between art and jewelry?
I guess I don't really have thehave the words to kind of take
that stance.
I'm a um and it I call considermyself a semi-professional
watercolor painter.
Um, that's my you know secondcareer on the side.
(17:59):
And but the same thing with withart, I always joke that like
there's no um, there's no magicin the paper, man.
It's it in the end, it's just apiece of paper with pigment on
top of it.
And uh, I hope you enjoy it.
But at the same time, it's theclosest thing to alchemy that we
have.
I take paper and I take pigmentand I turn it into, you know,
hopefully a lot of money.
And the same thing with jewelryis like, um, yeah, like with
(18:22):
watches, you're taking steel,which could be, you know, could
be rebar that you put in theinside of your house, and you're
making these tiny little cogsthat work together and tell
time, and you charge a lot moremoney as opposed to the
materials.
So yeah, I think that there islike kind of like probably it's
the human element.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
Again, it sounds so cliche.
I'm just probably repeatingthings I've heard over the
years, but oh, I love it.
Let's get into it.
It must be that, it must bethat.
Like it encapsulates, like wedon't think of the person making
it, you know, but ultimately ahuman being made it like like
it's okay.
You're an artist.
I've seen these freaking videosof oh, look at how this water
jet from AI can can create thissculpture.
(19:02):
And you're like, Well, what thehell is that?
Who who cares?
Like, like isn't it much coolerto to have this person who
spent, you know, I read thingsabout Michelangelo and and
hundreds, thousands of hours.
It's incredible, yeah, it'sincredible.
And it's like, well, there'sdeep meaning in that somehow.
(19:22):
Um so maybe I don't know, maybeit's this again, it's it's
inexplicable, but um, yeah, I'mglad to hear most jewelers feel
the same way.
I I do believe that because I'vebeen at bars with them after the
shows, and that's what we talkabout.
We first we talk about money andthen money and business, and
then we talk about the cool art.
Two, three drinks in, we like,oh my god, you should have heard
(19:44):
yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:45):
Yeah.
So and I love that.
And that's one of those thoseparts.
Uh, there's these weird aspectsof the jewelry industry that um
every time I bump into them, Iam so pleased that they still
exist.
One of them is how remarkablytransparent retailers are
amongst each other, that there'suh a real seeming lack of uh
gatekeeping for a lot of peoplewhen it comes to not just
(20:06):
business marketing and strategy,but like also just what trends
like, hey, what are you sellinga lot of?
What are you selling a lot of?
Yes.
But also I find um that jewelersjust really like jewelers.
And I think that's part of thereason why why we're all here is
because if this was just a dayjob, um, I don't know.
I think that it would it'spretty hard.
I feel like there's easier waysto make money than than just in
(20:27):
jewelry, but I guess that'sthat's that's just my thoughts.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Yeah, no, you're uh you're you're right.
And I mean it's it's it's thebest and worst job in the world,
you know.
We're very lucky.
I think we all again at the endof the night, when it's last
call, we all agree, uh, wow, wehave a great, we we are working
in a great profession.
And I think I I definitely knowthat we know it.
And it's funny because when yousaid that, I'm like, it's it's
(20:51):
weird that that jewelers havethis reputation of ripping
people off.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
And it's like, shit, not the ones I know, the ones I
know are given great deals andthey they throw in free stuff
and they want experience to feelwhite love.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
Yeah, it's amazing.
And it doesn't matter if they ifthey have a$20 million store or
a$200,000 store for the mostpart.
It's just like, no, I justreally want my clients to love
me, and I'll here's how I'mgonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Yeah.
But Andy, we're gonna take aquick break, and when we come
back, I want to hear about yourbook and how it's um influenced
your store.
So everybody, stay with us.
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Thanks and back to the show.
Alright, everybody.
Still speaking with Andy Kanefrom Buy Like a Guy.
So Andy, you are a retailjewelry.
Where are you based out of, ifyou don't mind me asking?
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
We are in a beautiful little town called
West Bend, Wisconsin.
It's about 30 minutes north ofMilwaukee.
SPEAKER_02 (23:15):
Oh, super cool.
And I was just telling youbefore we jumped on the podcast,
I'm a big uh Gloom Bay Packersfan.
So uh that's really cool.
And I wanted to ask, so uh youwrote a book.
You're um an author.
And it sounds like Buy Like aGuy, your book, and being a
retail jeweler um all sort of gohand in hand, similar kind of um
(23:36):
past experiences and flavor.
Could you talk about your bookand and um what prompted you to
write it?
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Sure.
So so the book is called TheInappropriate Guide to Buying an
Engagement Ring.
And again, it is definitelytargeted at men, although anyone
can read it.
Um, and the way it started is Ihad uh a woman working here, and
she was she came to me one dayand said, Hey, can you like
write down the things that yousay when you're with a client
(24:04):
because they just sound so goodand I want to I want to talk
like that?
And I'm like, Yeah, sure, noproblem.
So uh I started writing it uhdown, and I'm like, okay, this
has just gone from a salesmanual to a book that anybody
could read.
Oh, cool.
Um, and the title came becauseyou know, I don't know if you
(24:24):
write, but when you write, yougotta go, yeah, go like free
form, right?
Like any everything you'rethinking should just fly into
that page.
Yeah.
Like, oh man, some of thisstuff's really inappropriate.
I don't know.
And I'm like, oh, okay, that'swhat I'm gonna call this.
Yeah.
Um, and so it's it's basicallymy way of telling, you know,
(24:45):
well, like it says, how to buyan engagement.
If a guy's sitting and I I did,I was talking to this guy
sitting next to me, but he, youknow, here, because it it does
happen, right?
They they go, oh, you're ajeweler.
Okay, so so all right, howwhat's the best way to buy a
ring?
You know, what should I do so Idon't get ripped off?
And I'm like, first off, noone's out to rip you off.
Second off, buy me a beer andI'll tell you.
(25:06):
And so that's so that's sort ofthe the the little journey
that's in the book, is I'm like,okay, we're four beers in.
Now I'm gonna tell you thispart.
Um, it's only 85 pages long, um,and it's it's there's not a
whole lot of fluff.
It's very direct guy-to-guytalk, and uh it's been well
received.
SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
That's super cool.
And was the the process ofwriting it um must have been at
least entirely formed from yourexperiences of like um having
these kind of conversations withmen.
Um, did you is was this whileyou were making your podcast or
before?
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Um it was it was during.
So and and a lot of the materialcame from like I was like kind
of looking back.
So again, you're a podcaster,right?
I don't so yours is veryunscripted.
Mine is just me, and so I haveto have it, I have to write it
out first, right?
Interesting.
So for me, when I was when I sitdown to do a podcast, um, if I
have a 10-minute podcast, whichis long for my podcast, um, I
(26:08):
bet you I have eight hours, ninehours of writing.
And so I had all that material.
That's a lot of writing.
Yeah, so I took all that stuff.
Well, you know, because yougotta edit.
Yeah, you gotta get it down tothat however long.
I told you I'm long-winded, youshould see me writing.
Uh so so uh so yeah, so I hadall that stuff, and I'm like,
(26:29):
I'm gonna start compiling thisinto this book.
So I so so I did have a lot ofit, you know, in place, and then
I just really had to edit itdown to the book, and then I
think again, it's what do youleave out is more important than
what you leave in.
Um, so yeah, so I did it uhbased, you know, it's really
(26:49):
loosely based on the podcast andthen compiled into one thing.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
So so and you were telling telling me that you used
it as like almost like a um likea leave behind or like a sales
tool.
Uh so how did it fit into yourlike your engagement ring
selling process?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Like where here's how that happened.
I just wrote it because youknow, everyone wants to write a
book.
Maybe you've said to yourself,someday I'm gonna write it off,
right?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I'm like, all right, fine.
Uh this wasn't the book Iexpected to write.
That's coming out later thisyear.
No, um, so this isn't the one Iexpected to write, and I wrote
it, fine, it's on Amazon, andthen it's so then I get like the
(27:24):
copies for families and friends,and they're sitting on my desk.
And then I I'm listening to oneof my salespeople.
She's talking to this guy.
He's like, Okay, uh, cool, I'mgonna think about it.
Every jeweler has heard that.
All right, let me think aboutit.
I'm like, I'm gonna go get abook.
So I went, so I went, ranupstairs, got the book, gave it
to him, and said, Hey, thismight help you.
(27:45):
And he sees the title, helaughs.
Yeah, he's like, Ah, cool, man.
Thanks.
You know, it's like this coolgift.
So he leaves, and I'm like,like, this is a far better
marketing tool.
That's not how it started thanany business card, any brochure
I could have handed that guy atthe moment.
Yeah, so um, you know, he comesback four days later.
(28:06):
He actually read it.
Whoa, I know.
Most guys do not read it, theytake it, but they don't read it.
Um, but anyway, he came back,he's like, this was amazing.
He's like, and I felt so goodbecause he's like, I laughed.
I'm like, oh, good, because someof the jokes are a little bit
dicey.
He's like, no, dude, it'sperfect.
Um, so anyway, that's that's howthat was born.
(28:28):
And ever since then, um, that'swhere I was like, that was a
light bulb moment.
I'm like, well, why aren't wejust giving this to every every
legit person who's like, we'vemade some headway.
Yeah, they're gonna leave.
How about we leave with them?
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
And you know what?
It's such a talk about you know,a leave behind.
I mean, you get a a businesscard, you know, everybody has
business cards.
It might end up in the trashlike as they're walking out the
door.
But a book, probably a lot lesslikely to lose it.
And even if you don't read it,you definitely kind of like feel
like you should read it.
(29:07):
And I think that talk about justa really solid leave behind.
I think that's really it isincredible.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
It's an incredible gift that we found.
No, uh secondly, um, they don'teven know I wrote it.
Like I'm not on the flooranymore.
The girls just give it and andand I I watch it, I hear it,
they're just like, ah, thanks,you know?
And and they don't throw itaway.
Eight eight out of nine guysdon't read it, but doesn't
(29:34):
matter.
It just doesn't matter.
It's not the point.
And and those that do, um,definitely come back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So have you ever done like a cost analysis on
that of like, you know, cost perbook, per um conversion, and see
how much money it costs toconvert one sale?
SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
I have.
Oh, you have?
That's uh I wish I had thatnumber at my it's on my I have a
buy like a guy website and I putit right out there for jewelers.
I have a little jeweler sectionthere.
Um the risk the return rate islike the ROI is something like
twenty-five thousand percent orsomething like that.
It's just like well, for all thethings we spend on marketing,
(30:13):
right?
Um just to get them in the door,then then we have their time
with them.
I mean, I think the book costs ajeweler like 10 bucks, which
sounds like a lot of money, butplease, what's the average
engagement ring going for?
And and and and to set yourselfapart.
I know I'm getting preachybecause I I just I noticed it
(30:33):
working, and I'm like, okay,this doesn't say come to my
jewelry store.
This says whoever literally inthe first few pages it says if
you if you're reading this now,the person that gave it to you
is your guy.
This is your guy to go buy thering from.
And and so, so but that thatgoes along with my buy like a
(30:54):
guy thing.
I just feel like it's for allindependent jewelers.
I I think our industry, we wealready talked about it.
Great people.
That's if someone's gonna buy aring, it needs to be from a a
solid independent, it does notneed to be from a big box.
I'm sorry if you deal with them,but um, I love indies.
SPEAKER_02 (31:10):
Me too.
I think that that's who we'refighting for.
That's who uh that's at leastthe the side I like to fight
for.
And um, I think that's a reallyuh a cool leave behind idea
because uh we've done different,various different leave behinds
in the past, and uh I think thatthere is something to be said
about like you know, a reallysolid one that kind of sticks
with you.
(31:31):
It's not until you go to, ifyou've ever been to JCK, you go
to JCK and they have those uhlike giant billboards or pop-ups
or whatever in the lobby of umof the of the of the casino when
you're going in and it just sayslike buy these diamonds.
Do you know how much thosethings cost?
It cost like a million dollarsor$750,000 for that banner.
(31:51):
And it's just like you know, itand that's just for the chance
for you to think of them when itcomes to buying your diamonds.
And then it's just like, yeah,giving someone a book, having
something, worst case scenario,it they feel worse, uh, you
know, about not reading it.
And then maybe they'll come backand in the future and get their
engagement ring, or or maybenot, maybe an anniversary um
(32:12):
gift.
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
So that's really we found it rich sweet.
We love it.
It's it's just um again,accidental.
I feel I feel reallybraggadocious.
I'm not trying to say that.
It's just um, you know, you findsomething great and you just
want the world to know about it.
Like, you got this.
Look, look what I discovered.
Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Hey, sometimes you know what?
I'm I'm I'm that way.
Sometimes I like I I make a nicepainting and I'm like, you know
what?
I really want some people to seethis.
And it's like, I'll send it tosome of my friends.
I'm just like, hey, isn't thiscool?
And it's like, it's notbragging, it's just you know,
sometimes we need a little bitof uh well, creatives are not
the best self-promoters, that'sfor sure.
That's for sure.
Yeah, amen.
(32:50):
Um, Andy, if people want tolearn, let's just start with uh
with with the book.
Where would they go if theywanted to learn more about your
book or maybe even grab a copythemselves?
SPEAKER_01 (32:58):
So yeah, I put up a site just for this.
Honestly, it's it's at uh theinappropriate guide.com.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
The inappropriate guide.com.
Love that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
So I have some stats up there.
Um and and again, it's it's justreally fun.
And and I I have a uh a bookthat I would recommend to
everybody.
It's called uh Get Different.
It's by Mike McHallowitz.
And and it just so happens thatafter I had this book, I'm like,
oh cool, I have this.
And it's like, how do you standout as a retailer these days?
(33:29):
I guess some of these giganticstores really help.
Um but even at that, man, evenat that, it just isn't it's how
we started this too.
It's person to person.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
I agree.
And and you know what?
So speaking of person to person,if people were interested in um
hearing your podcast, um buylike a guy, uh, where would they
go?
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
You can go anywhere you listen to podcasts, it's on
Spotify, Apple, just go to buylike a guy and pop up.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:56):
Well, thank you so much, Andy.
I really appreciate your time.
It's uh it's really cool to beacross from a podcaster.
Not many.
I've you know that I'm creepingup on 300 episodes, and I don't
know if I've interviewed anypodcasters.
So you get to be in rare air.
So um I really appreciate yourtime.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
Yeah, you are again, I'm gonna repeat this.
You're really good at this.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Oh, thanks.
Thanks, Andy.
And you know what?
If my boss is listening, youheard it here.
So I appreciate you all.
Absolutely.
Turn make that louder.
I appreciate that.
Thank you again.
Um, everybody, we'll be backnext week, Tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
(34:38):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was Andy Kanewith the Buy Like a Guy podcast.
Make sure you check him out inthe show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(35:00):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, we'll be back next week,Tuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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