June 2, 2026 • 42 mins
Mike sits down with Yoav Singer from UNI Diamonds to unpack what their real-time marketplace data reveals about diamond pricing, buyer behavior, and where demand is actually moving. We also talk through how tariffs, gold prices, memo, and better education are reshaping how retailers source stones and build trust with shoppers.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I'm joined by Joavfrom Uni Diamonds.
And uni got onto my radar thispast year at the end of uh 2025
when they released theiraggregate diamond data and an
(00:25):
annual report that kind ofcompared lab going prices and
fluctuations for uh certain uhspecs as well as their natural
diamond prices, and I found itto be incredibly thorough and
impartial and just veryinteresting.
Uh so I spoke with Joav about uhwhat uni is doing and how they
aggregate this data, as well asuh which diamonds are going up
(00:50):
and which ones are going down,which ones should be invested,
and also some of the knock-oneffects of uh if a diamond is
increasing in price or if metalsare increasing in price, is that
going to have a side effect onthe uh diamonds?
And it was just a really coolconversation.
We dove into a lot deeper intodiamond prices than I normally
get.
(01:10):
So if you're uh someone whoenjoys markets or just talking
about diamonds in general, Ithink you'll really enjoy this
conversation.
Make sure you check them out inthe show notes below.
SPEAKER_03 (01:25):
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And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm joined by Yoav Singer fromUni Diamonds.
How are you doing today, Yoav?
Good.
I'm glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
So excited.
So um Uni Diamonds, I kind ofgot introduced to you because of
this really amazing uh diamonduh report that you guys released
all about the state of diamondsum this past year in 2025.
(02:50):
And I thought it was reallyinteresting.
It provided a lot of insightsthat I actually hadn't seen on
paper before.
Could you introduce uh what UniDiamonds is for the people at
home?
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Of course.
Yeah, so Uni Diamonds wereessentially a real-time
marketplace.
Uh so the idea is that we bringtogether more than 450 suppliers
all under one roof, oneplatform.
And the idea is to make it assimple as buying something on
Amazon.
You see something that you like,you click, you buy it,
everything is 100% available andaccounted for.
And we just uh uh take care alsouh of the shipment and logistics
(03:22):
embedded in our product.
We are a subsidiary company ofMalka and it's obviously a
powerhouse in the trading uhindustry and in the diamond
industry.
So the idea is that everythingyou buy already is accounted
for, is shipped one KYC, oneshipment, one invoice, uh as
simple as you can get.
And on top of that, a couple ofyears ago, we said, you know, if
we have access to all thesesuppliers and we know exactly
(03:44):
what their feed is changing likein real time, let's make
something interesting with it.
And we've compiled a bunch ofmarketing sites that are powered
by AI, powered by actuallywhat's happening in real time,
um, absolutely, completelyunbiased, um, changing day by
day.
And we measure uh the polls, orlet's take call it the state of
the market every day.
(04:04):
Uh we know to track and to keepour hearts on uh we know how the
industry is moving, how pricingis changing for certain
categories, is there more orless supply of goods in certain
categories, what's traded moreoften?
And that's how we've built thoseinsights, and we've tried to
extend that as an additionalservice that kind of like brings
together the state of theindustry as a separate report
that we issue one supporter uhthat tells the story of the
(04:26):
industry for natural and laborand alike.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, it's really a super fascinating one because um
the fact that you guys areimpartial, I think is a really
compelling aspect of it.
And you were saying that youjust take the data and aggregate
it and then release it as areport, no, no bias.
And I think that that issomething that I sometimes feel
um there needs to be more of inthe industry.
This impartial, unbiased uhdisplay of information.
(04:53):
Uh, that's what we are trying todo.
Um, I did a whole episode lastuh last season all about at the
end of the year, all about howe-commerce did on our platform.
And uh, it's very listen to it.
It's great.
Thank you.
It's very tempting to um obscureor obfuscate um some of the
numbers because it's like I wantus to look as good as possible.
But then there is something verypowerful about like, here's what
(05:16):
is going on in the industry.
Uh I want to jump into, forexample, lab grown diamond
prices and like you were talkingabout how some are actually
pretty stable or even going up.
Um, when it comes to the diamondaggregate, uh, what are you
looking at?
Is it just um purely like whatdiamonds are passing through
your market, or is it which onesare, for example, passing
through your market and then notselling?
(05:38):
What does that look like for onyour end?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Yeah, it's it's a bit of both, actually.
And it's a good question becauseI think that what we're trying
to measure is again the state ofthe market and uni's inventory
being over 2 million diamondsthat we see each and every day.
It's pretty much equal, evenlydistributed between naturals and
laborers.
I think it's it represents avery fairly decent share of
what's happening around thetrade.
Uh so what we do is we take allthat feed, we clean it, we
(06:02):
remove the outliers, and we comeup with the correct calculations
onto how the market is actuallymoving in real time.
We base our data mostly onwhat's happening on the
manufacturing side in India,which used to be kind of like
the one way to go about it, upuntil what, uh, you know, 14
months or so.
That's when uh tariffs uh jumpedinto our lives, and we
understood that the marketbehaves very differently for
(06:23):
what's happening in India forglobal trade, let's call it, and
what's happening in the US,which is becoming a market on
its own.
Uh, because how goods are movingand what's actually traded and
how prices are shifting incertain categories, you know,
let's call it in India, is notexactly what's happening in the
US.
The US is a completely separatemarket.
And when trying to import goods,then we have tariffs that are
kicking in.
(06:44):
And US customers also care forvery different things compared
to the other clientele.
They want memo options, which issomething that we've embedded
into our platform.
They want fast delivery, right?
And and the the different needsare just like becoming more and
more overt, let's call it, outin the open.
And and the concept for us wasto try to represent what's
happening in real time and tryto fit our platform or fit our
(07:07):
product and the marketing setsthemselves, to tell one story
about what's happening globallyand one different story about
what's happening right now inthe US, specifically for what
kind of US goods are moving andchanging the prices.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
Oh, that's so interesting that there could be
this kind of divestment of theof the markets with US being
such a I'm not gonna say animportant player, but just more
of like its own kind ofself-sustained ecosystems.
But I also think that I am sortof starting to see a big shift
with these inroads with um beingable to have so many diamonds at
(07:39):
your fingertips.
I feel like maybe 10 years ago,there was a lot more of a
culture of like jewelersswapping amongst themselves, you
know, trading and for example,memoing diamonds.
Hey, I need a very specificstone that my customer
requested.
And now it's like they don'tneed to go to other jewelers.
There are tools like uni thatthey could uh find, you know,
(08:02):
they can present to theirretailer their shopper, hey, I
have all of these stones at myfingertips, whichever one you
choose, it's going to be hereguaranteed within what like
seven to ten days.
I find that that's or next daydelivery.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Or next day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
I think that that is such a compelling difference um
where it's like the options kindof remove a lot of the friction.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah, and and I think that what you're saying,
obviously you're seeing it, andmaybe I would love for you also
to share how you're seeing itfrom punchmark side of things.
But I can share that you know,when we've developed union and
try to make our market in theUS, we understood that we need
to grow with the industry.
So, in a way, yeah, we wouldlike to, you can say we want to
disrupt it and we want to makesure that we're introducing
(08:45):
innovation into our traders andhow dealers and how retail
stores are working.
But at the end of the day, itwas about how are we aligning
with the current processes andprocedures of how business is
actually conducted right now.
So we knew that there was thisthing that's called memo.
We wanted to make sure that wealign and help it grow in the
more sustainable way, let's callit for the industry.
(09:06):
So, you know, as a jewelrystore, as a retail store, you
need a specific stone that youdon't have in your case, in your
vault.
What do you do?
Traditionally, you would startcalling people all around, try
to figure out do you actuallyhave a three-carat old miner,
right?
Which obviously we know that uhthese antique shapes are very
much taking over right nowbecause everyone wants a very
specific uh special cut, right?
(09:27):
Why do you start?
You start calling people andeverything.
You don't need actually need it.
You don't need a sales repcoming over to your store,
showing you a bunch of goods ona suitcase, and then traveling
and taking off and coming backthree weeks later to see what
you've sold.
No, you can only pick and chooseexactly what you want.
And uh with Malcolm it, withFedEx, next day you have it on
your store.
(09:47):
All you need to do is click, youtake the stonom memo, we take
care of everything.
And the idea was to simplify orto digitize a process that
already has been existing in theindustry for years, just make it
as seamless, as simple aspossible for our retail stories
and partners.
SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
It's really uh an exciting thing because you know,
I think we all have theretailers' best interests in
heart.
We we all want them to just sellmore.
And that's kind of like a bigpush is we can just push for
them to sell more.
But in the end, if we are notable to, if they aren't able to,
then we're we're doing somethingwrong.
Um, but I do want to kind oftalk a little bit about um like
(10:23):
what diamonds are doing thesedays.
I find it to be uh supercompelling to look at diamonds.
I I look at the gold market allthe time, I look at silver, and
increasingly I'm looking atdiamonds.
For a lot of people, when wetalk about diamonds, their mind,
you close your eyes, what dothey think of?
They think of a one carat roundcut diamond.
Um, what is that what you'reseeing the most uh volume in?
(10:47):
Or are there things that weshouldn't be paying that we
should be paying attention tomore?
Like what um cuts and like youknow aspects of diamonds are
actually moving the most?
What's what's trendy?
Let's call it this question.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
Yeah, what's trending?
Yeah.
No, and I think that you got itright.
But I think that like as theindustry evolved and as the
customer became more educated,let's call it.
And that's something that maybewe'll we'll touch upon later.
Because the end consumer thesedays, the Gen Zs that are
getting engaged and everything,they've become so much more
informed and educated into whatthey're looking for in specific
diamonds, right?
But now, generally speaking, thecategory of engagement and
(11:20):
bridal, when we're talking aboutwhat a customer is looking for
these days, it becomes a morecomplex answer because we have
what are customers looking forin natural and what are
customers looking for inLabyrinth, right?
Two separate categories that arestarting to behave very
differently, at least what we'reseeing in our data.
Um, so you got it right, Ithink, that when you said that
like the round one carat that isalways a classic, that is always
(11:40):
a go-to, right?
GEH colors, right?
Maybe some distinct clarities,and you start playing around
from that price point or thatspecific category, you're
looking to upsell something, youknow, maybe looking for
something slightly cheaper orfor a budget, et cetera.
But that is always the go-to forthe average consumer.
Let's call it a round one caratclassic in naturals, right?
But we're also seeing fairly uhtrending now because of the
(12:04):
erosion or the decrease thatwe're seeing in prices in in
diamonds, in naturals as well,because we know that there has
been a price decrease innaturals, right?
So customers are trying tomaximize the potential of the
budget, and they're takingactually bigger stones in lower
colors and clarities.
So in the round categories, weare seeing that the 170s, for
(12:24):
example, are something thatpeople more and more can afford
right now.
In GH color, in VS2, SI1, evenSI2 clarities sometimes, right?
They want something that's a bitbigger, they want something that
is still a decent color, and thebudget now actually lets them
have it because the prices haveactually gone down in certain
areas 15, 20% in the last uhcouple of months, even year to
(12:48):
date or last year or so, right?
Um, more in the fancy shapes, weknow uh that ovals are still
fairly strong, and we're seeinguh maybe a peak of interest in
ovals to carats actually inhigher clarities.
So V V S1, V VS2 IFs as well.
But generally speaking, I thinkuh we're seeing it all, the
(13:08):
special cuts are taking overmore and more.
So step cuts, anything likemaybe a specific gradient, the
old miners, uh, and thosespecific uh interesting shapes,
funky shapes that people lookingfor actually something unique.
Because even within the categoryof bridal, right?
There we always have thoseclassic shapes, well know around
pairs, et cetera, et cetera.
But now people are looking formaybe you have a specific
(13:31):
antique cushion, for example.
We all know why, right?
Yeah, uh people are looking atall mines, people are looking
for those uh specific shapesthat are sometimes harder to
find because they're looking forsomething very much unique.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
It's so that is let's say I love that trend.
That's so fascinating.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
Yeah, because because even within something
that is, you know, a diamond isforever and that story about
uniqueness in a specific stonethat there is nothing like it,
right?
People are starting to find evenmore of a niche angle sometimes,
and that's what we're seeing orrequests.
Um and in lab, by the way,different story, different
category.
Yeah, um, you can't get anylower than a D or E color in lab
(14:06):
sometimes, right?
At least what's what that's whatpeople are looking for, all very
high clarities.
And then for the same pricepoint of what you would have,
like maybe a 70-porter oval,right?
You can now afford yourself athree carat oval in in lab
sometimes, right?
Or that's that's actually acategory that's also trending.
Radiance for carats are makingan impact as well.
(14:28):
So we're seeing three to fourcarats in labs, higher colors,
higher clarities.
That's something that's peopleare always gonna be looking for.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
Man, it's so fascinating.
It almost, correct me if I'mwrong, it sounds kind of like
you're almost viewing lab grownand uh natural diamonds as
almost two different, you know,two very different products in
in uh markets, you know, as oneis kind of going towards, you
know, trending towards these uhI feel like naturals, it's
(14:57):
almost like a slowerprogression.
Like the increments are very,you know, they're going by like
0.1 uh when they scale up, orthey're going by one step in the
clarities.
When it comes to labs, they'rejumping like uh seemingly uh a
half of a carat every year whenit goes to sizing up.
Yeah.
Um, is that do you kind of seeit as like very independent
(15:19):
markets, or are they tiedtogether?
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
I mean, they are sort of tied together because
it's uh I don't want to say it'sthe same product, but it's
around the same audience of whatpeople are looking for.
But I think that the marketitself is becoming more and more
differentiated, as you said,right?
And and we see that certaincategories in lab will continue
to drop in prices, will continueto drop in demand, because right
now no one actually needs a labone that's half a carat or one
(15:45):
carat, unless maybe you'retrying to mount it in whatever
piece, right?
But like for bridal itself, notreally interesting.
If you go to lab, you'll go totwo, three, four carats and up,
right?
In natural, by the way, if youask me, what are the categories
that are holding steady in termsof prices?
Where are prices not moving?
You know, in naturals, that's alarger stone.
Now you ask yourself, how is itpossible when the prices are
(16:08):
just eroding so much in both innatural and in lab, how come the
two carats in naturals and thethree carats in natural are
holding steady in prices?
That's because this is a moreaffluent audience that is now
purchasing, let's call it astatement stone, a stone that is
here to stay, right?
And that is what keeps its valueover time.
And you know, let's say you evenwant to sell it, you may you
(16:28):
want to upset it, you want toreplace it sometime and you
wanna scale up, as you said.
It's gonna be more uh uh of astatement, let's call it, to
have a two or three caratnatural uh rather than a lab.
And I think that like labs,generally speaking, are becoming
let's sort, let's sort of callit, like the gateway to this
market of diamonds, right?
So the first purchase that youwill make may actually become
(16:49):
more and more a lab grounddiamond, but as you've opened
this window to yourself andyou're you started to see the
value and you started to see theuniqueness of a diamond,
probably the next uh um you knowstone that you want to source
for yourself would be maybenatural next time.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Wow, what a really interesting point and almost
like kind of viewing it as likean asset.
All right, everybody, we'regonna take a quick break and
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Thanks and back to the show.
And we're back.
But just kind of on the topic ofmaybe like investments, um,
again, I've been payingattention a lot to the price of
(18:52):
gold.
It's kind of like my throughthread for the entire year
because I think we for a lot ofpeople think that we might have
peaked um over five fivethousand US dollars um for an
ounce of gold uh at the start ofthe year, it is now coming down,
at least as of the publish umpublishing of this episode.
What do you think, or are youseeing that as gold climbs, that
(19:17):
the budget that remains for thestone also has to recede to kind
of accommodate for that?
Because I sometimes wonder, I'vehad this conversation with um
with retailers, for example,like, why don't you sell a
wedding band at the same time asthe engagement ring?
And sometimes it actually makesa lot of sense though, like,
well, I want them to use 100% oftheir budget towards the wedding
(19:40):
band and then come back for theengagement ring because it makes
more sense for me to make themoney now as opposed to later.
And I sometimes wonder if at thesame time it's like, okay, like
if the price of gold to makethat uh setting, it's going to
kind of uh the the quantity ofthe gold is the same, but the
price is obviously increasing.
(20:01):
I wonder if then as a result,the diamond has to scale down
and make these kind of smallersizes more popular to
accommodate.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, as I said,
uh I think the end consumerbecomes more educated in what
they want and how much they'rewilling to spend on it, right?
So they become more informed.
And when whenever you know youwant to go buy that first
engagement ring or you want tobuy that first wedding band,
you're actually making a bit ofresearch, which is something
that people were not used toback in the day, right?
(20:31):
Um, so they're looking toexplore options, they're willing
to make sure uh that they getthe best deal possible.
Either it'd be if they cut onthe price of gold and make sure
that they make more of diamondof what they see, right?
Or they make sure they want tooptimize for the best quality of
a diamond that's out there, andmaybe they will not even go with
gold, right?
So it's about uh customereducation, I would say.
(20:51):
And and I think that like we'reseeing more and more retail
stores that feel the need toalso have the sales reps and the
sales associates on the floorbecome more educated on the
process of selling diamonds.
I see.
Right?
And and to be that everybody, II'd say.
Yeah, and I'm sure that you'reseeing it also uh on some of
(21:12):
like you know the setup of thoseretail stores and partners that
you work with.
But I for us, I think that whatwe're seeing is that retail
partners are they they are indesperate, they are in need, A,
to make sure that the associatesknow what they're selling and
they know how to talk aboutdiamonds and they know how to
talk about the forces, right?
And B, that they get the bestdeal possible because the
(21:35):
customer becomes more educatedand the customer knows exactly
what to expect, right?
So you can't, you know, continueto uh manipulate, let's say, the
customer or tell them a certainstory on how much that specific
stone should cost or shouldn'tcost, because everyone now has
access to all those tools andanalytics.
They know how much a one caratdiamond should cost, generally,
like a ballpark estimation,right?
(21:56):
So uh um I think it aligns ifyou allow me to elaborate.
For an interval minutes.
I think it aligns with ourstrategy of how does uni help
retail stores become moreempowered in educating their
consumers.
So we have that customer-facingmode so that when you have a
retail store storefront, right,you have that app that's called
Facet now that we launchedrecently, that you can visualize
(22:18):
or show diamonds as if they wereyour own.
And in there, we have someeducational tools explaining
what are the forces and how totell what's the difference
between an excellent cut diamondversus a VG cut diamond, a very
good cut diamond, right?
To help the sales associates onthe floor walk the customers
through the sale process andhelp them find the right diamond
for them.
And it can come from two milliondiamonds all over the world,
(22:38):
right?
Um, and and then the second one,which is how can you help the
retail partners make sure thatthey pay the right price for the
stones that they want to source?
So through a partnership that wehave with GIA, for any natural
stone that's out there, all youneed to do is punch a
certificate number.
And uni right away understandsall the characteristics and the
parameters of the stone, theforces, the finishing, the
(22:59):
fluorescence, the depth percent,and all those diamond two
details, right?
And comes up with a benchmarkingtool of helping you say, you
know, this is a round 170 Gcolor VS1 clarity, but uni has
50 more of these.
And I don't know what you areoffered for that specific stone,
but I can help you findsomething that's maybe 10%
cheaper because that's theinventory that's available live
(23:20):
for you.
All you need to do is click andfind a similar stone and make
that purchase instead.
And it's gonna be if it's in theUS, next day you'll have it in
your store.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Wow.
And man, customers, I feel arelike are really driven by that
deal.
And I think that when you canwhen you can give them that
whole like super transparentspiel where, hey, I'm fighting
with you, let's work side byside.
I do feel like it's very uhcompelling to to sit there and
be like, hey, let's worktogether to find you the best
deal.
(23:48):
I certainly like that when itcomes to um, you know, even
buying like, yeah, anythingthat's uh that I kind of feel
like is an investment.
Um, even if it's tools, likebuying going to a hardware store
and having them be like, let'sfind you the best deal.
And it's like, oh, I love it.
They they have my best interestin heart.
They're not just taking mymoney.
Uh, I love that kind ofcompelling uh thought process.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
Would you wouldn't you say that like the best sales
rep that you've seen or workedwith or like you know, have sold
something to you?
They don't try to actually sellyou something, they wanted to
work alongside with you.
They want to help you, yeah,help you, exactly.
They want to solve a pain thatyou have, right?
So interesting that for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Great reframing of it.
I love that.
And um, I guess at the sametime, what about um, you know,
you're talking about these pricechanges.
And I sometimes wonder howmemoing can work with like, you
know, things are fluctuatingevery single day.
And while it's in yourinventory, um, you know, the
(24:46):
price might be going up or downor or to the side.
Uh, are you is that somethingthat you have to like kind of
deal with on a on an ongoingbasis?
Is like obviously a retailerwants to have the stone in their
inventory and they want to showit to their customer.
Um, how do you handle like itmight be in their hands and then
the price might go down or itmight go up?
(25:06):
Um, how do you handle thatsomething like that?
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Yeah, I mean, uh it's interesting that you're
saying that retailers want tohold that inventory because I
think that like maybe you canalso chime in with your angle
here, but I think that like moreand more retail partners, no one
wants to hold the inventory anylonger.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
No one wants to in their hands, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
Exactly.
Right, and with price changingall the time, it's it's a pain
to try to figure out how toprice your inventory as well,
right?
And and we have tools fordealers to help them also price
their inventory and make surethat they're uh uh competitively
uh priced and make sure thatthey their stones are getting
selected because we have thedata again.
Uh uh, but when it comes tomemoing options, if no retail
(25:46):
part, no retail store actuallywants to have the stock in hand,
then you have absoluteflexibility because you can sell
more efficiently.
You can always have something inyour store next day without
actually owning that inventoryyourself.
Right?
So you can move faster, you canbe leaner.
That you're staying lean, you'restaying, you know, agile because
you don't actually are investedin that stock that you have in
(26:08):
case that you need to sellfirst.
And you can actually cater tomore customer demands in real
time.
So whenever a customer comes inand they want something that you
don't have in the case, or evenif you do, maybe you can find
something that's cheaper thatyou don't you don't want to lose
on the inventory that you haveright now, you're sitting on.
So you can be more nimble, let'scall it, and just order that
other stone that's coming from,let's say, you know, 47th Street
(26:29):
or whatever.
Next day you'll have it instore.
You can call the customers, showthem maybe alongside the stone
that you have in case, maybe twomore options and let them choose
based on what's actually thedelivery the most value for
them.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Yeah, I I'm just worried though, sometimes that
we're headed for the a futurewhere retail stores have no
product in their in their cases,you know?
And like you're you're totallyright.
Hey, if you don't have anyproducts, then you can be
flexible, you can be anything toanyone.
However, man, I don't there arecertain um watch brands that I
(27:01):
really enjoy.
If you walk in the store, uhnone of the watches are for
sale.
And it's like, uh, we don'tactually have anything.
This is just a a brandinglocation.
And I'm like, I feel like we'remissing the point of a store.
Isn't it the same thing withlike going into um into a
jewelry shop?
Man, I would be kind of a bummerif you walk in and it just like
(27:22):
all virtual, virtual products.
Uh, I feel like I would kind ofbe missing something.
There is something to be gainedfor a retailer, but I feel like
the end consumer slightlysuffers.
Don't you don't wouldn't youagree?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
They're looking for something for sure.
They want to see something intheir eyes, right?
Um, and and definitely they wantto see that the store has
options.
But at the end of the day, whatthey really care for is quality
service.
Because yeah, they become moresharp, like they could become
sharper on the price.
They want to make sure that theyget the pricing right.
But at the end of the day, ifthe store and the sales
(27:55):
associate helped them find theexact stone that they wanted.
So let's say the couple gotengaged, you know, or they they
you know, the couple got engagedin in January 21st, they would
want a 121 karat stone, which isexactly that specific stone to
mark that special day.
Right.
So for those cases, you want tomake sure that you get the
(28:16):
experience and you want to makesure that someone sees you.
And that's by the way, what bestretail stores are doing, because
they're building loyalty andtrust.
And that they know that maybethe customer will come to you
first time, they don't reallyknow you, right?
And they will make that firstpurchase with you because you
were sharper on the price.
But what will keep them longterm and what get them coming
(28:37):
back to your store, and thatloyalty and trust is built
through making sure that you'rehelping them out and you're
positioning yourself as apartner that can help them scale
and can help them, you know, uhthat they will remember always
remember you the best moments oftheir lives, right?
And you see that as well becauseyour best customers are coming
back to you each and every time.
And that's about building thattrust and loyalty.
Uh, that's that that that's atleast like the atmosphere that
(28:58):
the retailer store will try tocreate, even if the product is
not presented right at the rightend, but the ability to pull in
inventory from anywhereessentially and to find that
specific stone alongside thecustomer, let them choose
exactly what they want to see.
Right.
That I think goes a long waywith customers, even still.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
You know, it you're right.
I mean, the the relationshipsthat retailers have with their
shoppers is the exactrelationship that they expect
from their uh their vendorpartners, um, in which we
consider ourselves.
Uh, I've just found that, youknow, the relationship sometimes
with a shopper could havestarted, you know, before the
(29:37):
shopper was even born.
It was with their parents and itwas with the, you know, they
sold the engagement ring totheir parents.
And then, you know, they sawthis this child um, you know,
growing up and they're coming infor these anniversary guests,
maybe with the, maybe with, youknow, one of the parents.
And then, you know, they sellthem their engagement ring
(29:57):
afterwards.
That's a that's a sale that is,you know, 25, 30 years in the
making.
And with us, we had to changeour mindset as well.
We have to uh really sit downand like hold the hands of some
of our retailers as we walk themthrough what a website um you
know process would look like.
And it's not just because youknow, websites are complex or
(30:20):
they require a lot of thought oranything, it's partially because
they expect that kind ofservice, because that's the
service that they provide totheir shoppers.
SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
So it's a generational sale as well,
right?
Because if the father used tosell diamonds out of a case that
he was holding, right, now theyneed to move online.
You're you're the pioneer, let'scall it, right?
You want to give make sure thatyou're giving the absolute best
service.
So now you're not only sellingthe technology, you're selling
the service and you're sellingthe experience, right?
(30:50):
So uh, you know, I I'm curiousalso to learn kind of like how
you go about trying to figureout how to change the narrative
or finding your way with acustomer that is they don't
actually understand the value ofwhat you bring to the table.
SPEAKER_00 (31:02):
Yeah, you know, it's hard.
It it really is.
I think part of it is, you know,we do things like this podcast,
a lot of education surroundingit.
However, what I am a big focuson, um, actually locally too,
for my own community, is I'mvery um interested in the next
generation.
Um, we did a whole campaignabout it for uh Punchmark.
(31:23):
We did a whole campaign where wewere catering specifically to
next generation.
Very transparently, part of thereason for this is because we
have found our best, uh a lot ofour best customers are the next
generation.
And what do I mean by that?
It's like the you know they'resavvy, yeah, 25 to 45 year olds
who took over their parents'store or their parents' parents'
(31:46):
store and are moving on, orsometimes it's like a cousin or
a uh you know, a store managerthat has been there for a long
time.
But what we find is that they ithammers home a lot easier.
But what I just find is thatthis next generation I find very
interesting.
We're in a very uh tumultuoustime in in the world, and I find
(32:07):
that the more education and themore um eyes wide open this next
group is going to be.
Uh, the the time is very soonwhen that generation, you know,
like I said, 25 to 45 are goingto be making a lot of the
decisions um as like they getmore and more.
(32:28):
I don't want to say marketshare, but like, I guess um, I
don't either power or likedecision-making capabilities.
And that's what I find it's alot of education, but it's also
knowing who you're talking to.
You have to speak to this nextgeneration.
A lot of times we see it atshows, we are there, who sits
down?
It's gonna be uh the storeowner, and they might be, you
(32:51):
know, 65, 75, uh, almost readyto retire.
And then it's the next person.
And I find it very thoseconversations are super
interesting because you have toalmost explain it twice.
You have to explain it to thenext generation who is like, you
know, probably going to be usingthe tool the most, but you also
have to make it to the other,uh, the actual store owner, and
(33:14):
like kind of cater and be like,hey, this is going to be good
for the long run.
This is going to be aninvestment, this is going to be
a um something that scales.
And I find that theconversation, you almost have to
cover all of the bases all atthe same time because some of
the points matter so much to oneparty or the other, uh, that if
(33:35):
you skip over them, then you areleaving a lot of important
information um in your pocket.
SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
That that is so true because I think that's like that
that generation is going througha digital transformation, right?
And a lot of the businesses thatused to be very much brick and
mortar are now going more andmore online.
And they need to generate thatonline presence, either it be
with social media, either it bewith having a website, either it
be with finding more ways tosource.
And I think that what reallyaligns, I would say, between uni
(34:04):
and punchmark is that you'remaking the sale twice, just like
you mentioned.
And I think that what helps usuh you know stand apart is that
we have that combination ofexpertise, right?
So myself, I come, let's call itfrom more of a startup and
high-tech background, right?
I used to work in differentstartups, et cetera.
But we have people uh in ourcompany that have been around
(34:25):
the trade for like 30 years or25 years, diamond tears, very
heavy experts on like, you know,picking up the loop and looking
at each and every stone.
They've probably looked at100,000 stones in their lives,
right?
Um, and then so so we need tohandle that conversation of
knowing how to talk to the firstgeneration, only diamonds, only
about building trust and arelationship because they're
looking for partners.
(34:45):
They used to work with peoplefor 25, 30 years.
So you want to make sure thatyou come across as a trusted
partner and ally.
But at the same time, you wantto sell technology, you want to
sell scalability.
So the idea of that, you know,you can have an endless aisle,
all of the options in the world,powered through technology and
AI, but at the same time, youwant to stay very much uh, you
(35:06):
know, feet on the ground, saythat I'm here for the longer
term, I'm here to build thisrelationship with you.
We're not going anywhere.
So just trying to strike thatbalance or find a way in the
in-between to talk about thosetwo different elements.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
It's it's very, it is a difficult one.
I think that the more, the onlyway I get better at it is by
doing it more.
It's part of the reason why Ihave um these retailer
roundtables where I get to sitdown and and hear what's
important.
And increasingly it's likewhat's important to me is isn't
sometimes not even the top fiveor 10 for some of these
shoppers.
(35:38):
They are just trying to, youknow, make a sale, or they're
just trying to find a moreefficient way to get through it,
or they're making the transitionfrom um, you know, uh, what is
it, like um, you know, a greenbook um point of sale system
where they're logging everythingby hand into a digital one and
(35:59):
getting up with the the currenttimes, those transitions are so
important to them.
And for me, if I'm just like, ofcourse you should be doing that,
you you need to do that quicker.
Uh when you start getting likeexasperated, I feel like
suddenly they get defensive.
And then it's like, oh, okay,like, hang on, this is a big
deal for you.
Let's help you through this.
And then we can talk about if ifwe start talking about these
(36:21):
omnichannel in-store cateredexperiences before we start
talking about like, hey man, youyou got your inventory online.
Um, I feel like we are kind ofuh putting the cart before the
horse in a lot of situations.
SPEAKER_02 (36:37):
Yeah, and it's it, you know, a a store owner cares
about so much stuff.
Oh, so much.
It's it's not only about thepoint of sale system or the
diamond inventory that they needto source and find and show
their customers.
It's about making sure thattheir sales associate showed up
on time and making sure thatthey're stocked up towards the
season and that the price ofgold bites are are through the
roof now.
So how am I actually gonna makeit next year?
(36:58):
And the benturer that you needhelp from, and you know, the
lease and they care about amillion different things.
So it's about trying to findthem, I would say, uh, let's
call it in a qualifiedenvironment, which is they're
willing to listen, they'rewilling to talk about what's
stopping them in their tracksinto helping their business
grow.
And then trying to alignalongside with them and tell
them, listen, I can, you know,help you get through this with
(37:22):
either it'd be supplementing onyour inventory to make sure that
you have all the options in theworld, either it'd be helping
you build that own-channelexperience so you can scale your
operations and try to sellonline even without having to
actually invest all that effort.
And that's where we're gonnabuild the website for you,
right?
But like helping them find theirway into helping them solve one
(37:42):
problem at a time, or what it'scalled, one problem at a day, to
make sure that they're they'rethey're doing more with the same
resources that they can investin.
SPEAKER_00 (37:50):
I think it's just yeah, empowering them.
That's uh that's a great way tolook at it though, you have.
Um, so if people were interestedin learning more about uni
diamonds, having you knowmillions of diamonds at their at
their fingertips, maybe gettingthese market reports to see uh
what their inventory is is doingor which ones they should be
investing into.
Um, where should they go and tolearn more about uni diamonds?
SPEAKER_02 (38:11):
Yeah, so you can just uh go to uni.diamonds,
uni.diamonds, uh plural, um, andyou can read all about us.
You can just uh sign up rightthere, right then.
We'll be in touch, you know, ina matter of minutes.
Um, and you can find over therelike uh all of what we're all
about, the access to themarketplace itself, uh, with
having that endless aisle andoptions.
(38:32):
We can talk about the demoprogram over there, and you can
find more about uh you know thein-store experience with that
facet app of like how we canhelp visualize under your
branded guidelines in-store.
You can use it on your iPad app.
And over there you'll also findlike a blog post.
Uh, we're posting a bunch ofcontent success stories and blog
posts about how we're helpingjewelers and retail stores and
(38:53):
dealers.
Um, and over there you'll alsofind like the industry report.
We have a quarterly industryreport.
So we've issued an industryreport for all of 2025.
We've just recently uh publishedthe industry report of what has
been changing in the market inQ1 of 2026.
So that's also live.
You can check it out.
Just uh keep in touch and thenwe're hoping to see you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Yeah, I think that the the industry reports are are
so interesting.
Like I was saying, having aunbiased and like kind of a
neutral presentation of data issomething that I uh I feel like
there needs to be more of.
Um, a lot of times, a lot ofindustry or a lot of businesses,
um, it's so the data is soprecious that they keep it
really close to their chest.
(39:34):
Understandably so.
They spend a lot of time andmoney aggregating their their
data.
But whenever there's um wheneverthere's a report that comes
around that like just showsstuff in in you know what you
might call plain text, man, Ieat that right up.
I find it so exciting to um tolearn how things are moving and
just to get a betterunderstanding because I don't
want to store own a store.
So I don't know how things arefluctuating in real time.
(39:56):
I can only see what's uh doneonline.
So I really appreciate what youguys are doing at uni.
SPEAKER_02 (40:01):
Yeah, and and by the way, just to say all the
reporting that we do iscompletely anonymous, right?
So um the supplier doesn't knowwho the buyer is, the buyer
doesn't know who the supplieris.
It's all making sure that it'sabout where the stone is at,
make sure that the price isright.
As simple as that, we ship itover to you.
And our reporting as well isdone aggregated so that there is
no specific insight that comesup and says, you know, this is
(40:22):
by a specific supplier thatchanged this and that pricing of
this and that policy.
It's all aggregated and makingsure that we're not uh exposing
any sensitive information.
But at the same time, we dobelieve that we have a story to
tell about how the industry ischanging and shifting in real
time, powered by data, poweredby AI, completely unbiased and
for everyone to consume in realtime and make use of their own.
(40:45):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
Well, thank you so much, Joab.
I really appreciate your time.
Um, I'll have all thatinformation in the show notes
below.
Um, go check them out.
I think that it's uh it's areally compelling information,
and uh I really appreciate yourtime, Joe.
Thank you so much.
It was very interesting.
Keep in awesome.
Have a good rest of your day,everybody.
We'll be back next week, Tuesdaywith another show.
Bye.
(41:12):
Alright, everybody, that'sanother show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was Joab fromUni Diamonds.
Uh, you can learn more aboutthem in the show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(41:34):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L O U P E.
Thanks, we'll be back next weekTuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I'm joined by Joavfrom Uni Diamonds.
And uni got onto my radar thispast year at the end of uh 2025
when they released theiraggregate diamond data and an
(00:25):
annual report that kind ofcompared lab going prices and
fluctuations for uh certain uhspecs as well as their natural
diamond prices, and I found itto be incredibly thorough and
impartial and just veryinteresting.
Uh so I spoke with Joav about uhwhat uni is doing and how they
aggregate this data, as well asuh which diamonds are going up
(00:50):
and which ones are going down,which ones should be invested,
and also some of the knock-oneffects of uh if a diamond is
increasing in price or if metalsare increasing in price, is that
going to have a side effect onthe uh diamonds?
And it was just a really coolconversation.
We dove into a lot deeper intodiamond prices than I normally
get.
(01:10):
So if you're uh someone whoenjoys markets or just talking
about diamonds in general, Ithink you'll really enjoy this
conversation.
Make sure you check them out inthe show notes below.
SPEAKER_03 (01:25):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:46):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(02:08):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
I'm joined by Yoav Singer fromUni Diamonds.
How are you doing today, Yoav?
Good.
I'm glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
So excited.
So um Uni Diamonds, I kind ofgot introduced to you because of
this really amazing uh diamonduh report that you guys released
all about the state of diamondsum this past year in 2025.
(02:50):
And I thought it was reallyinteresting.
It provided a lot of insightsthat I actually hadn't seen on
paper before.
Could you introduce uh what UniDiamonds is for the people at
home?
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Of course.
Yeah, so Uni Diamonds wereessentially a real-time
marketplace.
Uh so the idea is that we bringtogether more than 450 suppliers
all under one roof, oneplatform.
And the idea is to make it assimple as buying something on
Amazon.
You see something that you like,you click, you buy it,
everything is 100% available andaccounted for.
And we just uh uh take care alsouh of the shipment and logistics
(03:22):
embedded in our product.
We are a subsidiary company ofMalka and it's obviously a
powerhouse in the trading uhindustry and in the diamond
industry.
So the idea is that everythingyou buy already is accounted
for, is shipped one KYC, oneshipment, one invoice, uh as
simple as you can get.
And on top of that, a couple ofyears ago, we said, you know, if
we have access to all thesesuppliers and we know exactly
(03:44):
what their feed is changing likein real time, let's make
something interesting with it.
And we've compiled a bunch ofmarketing sites that are powered
by AI, powered by actuallywhat's happening in real time,
um, absolutely, completelyunbiased, um, changing day by
day.
And we measure uh the polls, orlet's take call it the state of
the market every day.
(04:04):
Uh we know to track and to keepour hearts on uh we know how the
industry is moving, how pricingis changing for certain
categories, is there more orless supply of goods in certain
categories, what's traded moreoften?
And that's how we've built thoseinsights, and we've tried to
extend that as an additionalservice that kind of like brings
together the state of theindustry as a separate report
that we issue one supporter uhthat tells the story of the
(04:26):
industry for natural and laborand alike.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, it's really a super fascinating one because um
the fact that you guys areimpartial, I think is a really
compelling aspect of it.
And you were saying that youjust take the data and aggregate
it and then release it as areport, no, no bias.
And I think that that issomething that I sometimes feel
um there needs to be more of inthe industry.
This impartial, unbiased uhdisplay of information.
(04:53):
Uh, that's what we are trying todo.
Um, I did a whole episode lastuh last season all about at the
end of the year, all about howe-commerce did on our platform.
And uh, it's very listen to it.
It's great.
Thank you.
It's very tempting to um obscureor obfuscate um some of the
numbers because it's like I wantus to look as good as possible.
But then there is something verypowerful about like, here's what
(05:16):
is going on in the industry.
Uh I want to jump into, forexample, lab grown diamond
prices and like you were talkingabout how some are actually
pretty stable or even going up.
Um, when it comes to the diamondaggregate, uh, what are you
looking at?
Is it just um purely like whatdiamonds are passing through
your market, or is it which onesare, for example, passing
through your market and then notselling?
(05:38):
What does that look like for onyour end?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Yeah, it's it's a bit of both, actually.
And it's a good question becauseI think that what we're trying
to measure is again the state ofthe market and uni's inventory
being over 2 million diamondsthat we see each and every day.
It's pretty much equal, evenlydistributed between naturals and
laborers.
I think it's it represents avery fairly decent share of
what's happening around thetrade.
Uh so what we do is we take allthat feed, we clean it, we
(06:02):
remove the outliers, and we comeup with the correct calculations
onto how the market is actuallymoving in real time.
We base our data mostly onwhat's happening on the
manufacturing side in India,which used to be kind of like
the one way to go about it, upuntil what, uh, you know, 14
months or so.
That's when uh tariffs uh jumpedinto our lives, and we
understood that the marketbehaves very differently for
(06:23):
what's happening in India forglobal trade, let's call it, and
what's happening in the US,which is becoming a market on
its own.
Uh, because how goods are movingand what's actually traded and
how prices are shifting incertain categories, you know,
let's call it in India, is notexactly what's happening in the
US.
The US is a completely separatemarket.
And when trying to import goods,then we have tariffs that are
kicking in.
(06:44):
And US customers also care forvery different things compared
to the other clientele.
They want memo options, which issomething that we've embedded
into our platform.
They want fast delivery, right?
And and the the different needsare just like becoming more and
more overt, let's call it, outin the open.
And and the concept for us wasto try to represent what's
happening in real time and tryto fit our platform or fit our
(07:07):
product and the marketing setsthemselves, to tell one story
about what's happening globallyand one different story about
what's happening right now inthe US, specifically for what
kind of US goods are moving andchanging the prices.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
Oh, that's so interesting that there could be
this kind of divestment of theof the markets with US being
such a I'm not gonna say animportant player, but just more
of like its own kind ofself-sustained ecosystems.
But I also think that I am sortof starting to see a big shift
with these inroads with um beingable to have so many diamonds at
(07:39):
your fingertips.
I feel like maybe 10 years ago,there was a lot more of a
culture of like jewelersswapping amongst themselves, you
know, trading and for example,memoing diamonds.
Hey, I need a very specificstone that my customer
requested.
And now it's like they don'tneed to go to other jewelers.
There are tools like uni thatthey could uh find, you know,
(08:02):
they can present to theirretailer their shopper, hey, I
have all of these stones at myfingertips, whichever one you
choose, it's going to be hereguaranteed within what like
seven to ten days.
I find that that's or next daydelivery.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Or next day.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
I think that that is such a compelling difference um
where it's like the options kindof remove a lot of the friction.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah, and and I think that what you're saying,
obviously you're seeing it, andmaybe I would love for you also
to share how you're seeing itfrom punchmark side of things.
But I can share that you know,when we've developed union and
try to make our market in theUS, we understood that we need
to grow with the industry.
So, in a way, yeah, we wouldlike to, you can say we want to
disrupt it and we want to makesure that we're introducing
(08:45):
innovation into our traders andhow dealers and how retail
stores are working.
But at the end of the day, itwas about how are we aligning
with the current processes andprocedures of how business is
actually conducted right now.
So we knew that there was thisthing that's called memo.
We wanted to make sure that wealign and help it grow in the
more sustainable way, let's callit for the industry.
(09:06):
So, you know, as a jewelrystore, as a retail store, you
need a specific stone that youdon't have in your case, in your
vault.
What do you do?
Traditionally, you would startcalling people all around, try
to figure out do you actuallyhave a three-carat old miner,
right?
Which obviously we know that uhthese antique shapes are very
much taking over right nowbecause everyone wants a very
specific uh special cut, right?
(09:27):
Why do you start?
You start calling people andeverything.
You don't need actually need it.
You don't need a sales repcoming over to your store,
showing you a bunch of goods ona suitcase, and then traveling
and taking off and coming backthree weeks later to see what
you've sold.
No, you can only pick and chooseexactly what you want.
And uh with Malcolm it, withFedEx, next day you have it on
your store.
(09:47):
All you need to do is click, youtake the stonom memo, we take
care of everything.
And the idea was to simplify orto digitize a process that
already has been existing in theindustry for years, just make it
as seamless, as simple aspossible for our retail stories
and partners.
SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
It's really uh an exciting thing because you know,
I think we all have theretailers' best interests in
heart.
We we all want them to just sellmore.
And that's kind of like a bigpush is we can just push for
them to sell more.
But in the end, if we are notable to, if they aren't able to,
then we're we're doing somethingwrong.
Um, but I do want to kind oftalk a little bit about um like
(10:23):
what diamonds are doing thesedays.
I find it to be uh supercompelling to look at diamonds.
I I look at the gold market allthe time, I look at silver, and
increasingly I'm looking atdiamonds.
For a lot of people, when wetalk about diamonds, their mind,
you close your eyes, what dothey think of?
They think of a one carat roundcut diamond.
Um, what is that what you'reseeing the most uh volume in?
(10:47):
Or are there things that weshouldn't be paying that we
should be paying attention tomore?
Like what um cuts and like youknow aspects of diamonds are
actually moving the most?
What's what's trendy?
Let's call it this question.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
Yeah, what's trending?
Yeah.
No, and I think that you got itright.
But I think that like as theindustry evolved and as the
customer became more educated,let's call it.
And that's something that maybewe'll we'll touch upon later.
Because the end consumer thesedays, the Gen Zs that are
getting engaged and everything,they've become so much more
informed and educated into whatthey're looking for in specific
diamonds, right?
But now, generally speaking, thecategory of engagement and
(11:20):
bridal, when we're talking aboutwhat a customer is looking for
these days, it becomes a morecomplex answer because we have
what are customers looking forin natural and what are
customers looking for inLabyrinth, right?
Two separate categories that arestarting to behave very
differently, at least what we'reseeing in our data.
Um, so you got it right, Ithink, that when you said that
like the round one carat that isalways a classic, that is always
(11:40):
a go-to, right?
GEH colors, right?
Maybe some distinct clarities,and you start playing around
from that price point or thatspecific category, you're
looking to upsell something, youknow, maybe looking for
something slightly cheaper orfor a budget, et cetera.
But that is always the go-to forthe average consumer.
Let's call it a round one caratclassic in naturals, right?
But we're also seeing fairly uhtrending now because of the
(12:04):
erosion or the decrease thatwe're seeing in prices in in
diamonds, in naturals as well,because we know that there has
been a price decrease innaturals, right?
So customers are trying tomaximize the potential of the
budget, and they're takingactually bigger stones in lower
colors and clarities.
So in the round categories, weare seeing that the 170s, for
(12:24):
example, are something thatpeople more and more can afford
right now.
In GH color, in VS2, SI1, evenSI2 clarities sometimes, right?
They want something that's a bitbigger, they want something that
is still a decent color, and thebudget now actually lets them
have it because the prices haveactually gone down in certain
areas 15, 20% in the last uhcouple of months, even year to
(12:48):
date or last year or so, right?
Um, more in the fancy shapes, weknow uh that ovals are still
fairly strong, and we're seeinguh maybe a peak of interest in
ovals to carats actually inhigher clarities.
So V V S1, V VS2 IFs as well.
But generally speaking, I thinkuh we're seeing it all, the
(13:08):
special cuts are taking overmore and more.
So step cuts, anything likemaybe a specific gradient, the
old miners, uh, and thosespecific uh interesting shapes,
funky shapes that people lookingfor actually something unique.
Because even within the categoryof bridal, right?
There we always have thoseclassic shapes, well know around
pairs, et cetera, et cetera.
But now people are looking formaybe you have a specific
(13:31):
antique cushion, for example.
We all know why, right?
Yeah, uh people are looking atall mines, people are looking
for those uh specific shapesthat are sometimes harder to
find because they're looking forsomething very much unique.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
It's so that is let's say I love that trend.
That's so fascinating.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
Yeah, because because even within something
that is, you know, a diamond isforever and that story about
uniqueness in a specific stonethat there is nothing like it,
right?
People are starting to find evenmore of a niche angle sometimes,
and that's what we're seeing orrequests.
Um and in lab, by the way,different story, different
category.
Yeah, um, you can't get anylower than a D or E color in lab
(14:06):
sometimes, right?
At least what's what that's whatpeople are looking for, all very
high clarities.
And then for the same pricepoint of what you would have,
like maybe a 70-porter oval,right?
You can now afford yourself athree carat oval in in lab
sometimes, right?
Or that's that's actually acategory that's also trending.
Radiance for carats are makingan impact as well.
(14:28):
So we're seeing three to fourcarats in labs, higher colors,
higher clarities.
That's something that's peopleare always gonna be looking for.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
Man, it's so fascinating.
It almost, correct me if I'mwrong, it sounds kind of like
you're almost viewing lab grownand uh natural diamonds as
almost two different, you know,two very different products in
in uh markets, you know, as oneis kind of going towards, you
know, trending towards these uhI feel like naturals, it's
(14:57):
almost like a slowerprogression.
Like the increments are very,you know, they're going by like
0.1 uh when they scale up, orthey're going by one step in the
clarities.
When it comes to labs, they'rejumping like uh seemingly uh a
half of a carat every year whenit goes to sizing up.
Yeah.
Um, is that do you kind of seeit as like very independent
(15:19):
markets, or are they tiedtogether?
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
I mean, they are sort of tied together because
it's uh I don't want to say it'sthe same product, but it's
around the same audience of whatpeople are looking for.
But I think that the marketitself is becoming more and more
differentiated, as you said,right?
And and we see that certaincategories in lab will continue
to drop in prices, will continueto drop in demand, because right
now no one actually needs a labone that's half a carat or one
(15:45):
carat, unless maybe you'retrying to mount it in whatever
piece, right?
But like for bridal itself, notreally interesting.
If you go to lab, you'll go totwo, three, four carats and up,
right?
In natural, by the way, if youask me, what are the categories
that are holding steady in termsof prices?
Where are prices not moving?
You know, in naturals, that's alarger stone.
Now you ask yourself, how is itpossible when the prices are
(16:08):
just eroding so much in both innatural and in lab, how come the
two carats in naturals and thethree carats in natural are
holding steady in prices?
That's because this is a moreaffluent audience that is now
purchasing, let's call it astatement stone, a stone that is
here to stay, right?
And that is what keeps its valueover time.
And you know, let's say you evenwant to sell it, you may you
(16:28):
want to upset it, you want toreplace it sometime and you
wanna scale up, as you said.
It's gonna be more uh uh of astatement, let's call it, to
have a two or three caratnatural uh rather than a lab.
And I think that like labs,generally speaking, are becoming
let's sort, let's sort of callit, like the gateway to this
market of diamonds, right?
So the first purchase that youwill make may actually become
(16:49):
more and more a lab grounddiamond, but as you've opened
this window to yourself andyou're you started to see the
value and you started to see theuniqueness of a diamond,
probably the next uh um you knowstone that you want to source
for yourself would be maybenatural next time.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Wow, what a really interesting point and almost
like kind of viewing it as likean asset.
All right, everybody, we'regonna take a quick break and
hear a word from our sponsor.
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Thanks and back to the show.
And we're back.
But just kind of on the topic ofmaybe like investments, um,
again, I've been payingattention a lot to the price of
(18:52):
gold.
It's kind of like my throughthread for the entire year
because I think we for a lot ofpeople think that we might have
peaked um over five fivethousand US dollars um for an
ounce of gold uh at the start ofthe year, it is now coming down,
at least as of the publish umpublishing of this episode.
What do you think, or are youseeing that as gold climbs, that
(19:17):
the budget that remains for thestone also has to recede to kind
of accommodate for that?
Because I sometimes wonder, I'vehad this conversation with um
with retailers, for example,like, why don't you sell a
wedding band at the same time asthe engagement ring?
And sometimes it actually makesa lot of sense though, like,
well, I want them to use 100% oftheir budget towards the wedding
(19:40):
band and then come back for theengagement ring because it makes
more sense for me to make themoney now as opposed to later.
And I sometimes wonder if at thesame time it's like, okay, like
if the price of gold to makethat uh setting, it's going to
kind of uh the the quantity ofthe gold is the same, but the
price is obviously increasing.
(20:01):
I wonder if then as a result,the diamond has to scale down
and make these kind of smallersizes more popular to
accommodate.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, as I said,
uh I think the end consumerbecomes more educated in what
they want and how much they'rewilling to spend on it, right?
So they become more informed.
And when whenever you know youwant to go buy that first
engagement ring or you want tobuy that first wedding band,
you're actually making a bit ofresearch, which is something
that people were not used toback in the day, right?
(20:31):
Um, so they're looking toexplore options, they're willing
to make sure uh that they getthe best deal possible.
Either it'd be if they cut onthe price of gold and make sure
that they make more of diamondof what they see, right?
Or they make sure they want tooptimize for the best quality of
a diamond that's out there, andmaybe they will not even go with
gold, right?
So it's about uh customereducation, I would say.
(20:51):
And and I think that like we'reseeing more and more retail
stores that feel the need toalso have the sales reps and the
sales associates on the floorbecome more educated on the
process of selling diamonds.
I see.
Right?
And and to be that everybody, II'd say.
Yeah, and I'm sure that you'reseeing it also uh on some of
(21:12):
like you know the setup of thoseretail stores and partners that
you work with.
But I for us, I think that whatwe're seeing is that retail
partners are they they are indesperate, they are in need, A,
to make sure that the associatesknow what they're selling and
they know how to talk aboutdiamonds and they know how to
talk about the forces, right?
And B, that they get the bestdeal possible because the
(21:35):
customer becomes more educatedand the customer knows exactly
what to expect, right?
So you can't, you know, continueto uh manipulate, let's say, the
customer or tell them a certainstory on how much that specific
stone should cost or shouldn'tcost, because everyone now has
access to all those tools andanalytics.
They know how much a one caratdiamond should cost, generally,
like a ballpark estimation,right?
(21:56):
So uh um I think it aligns ifyou allow me to elaborate.
For an interval minutes.
I think it aligns with ourstrategy of how does uni help
retail stores become moreempowered in educating their
consumers.
So we have that customer-facingmode so that when you have a
retail store storefront, right,you have that app that's called
Facet now that we launchedrecently, that you can visualize
(22:18):
or show diamonds as if they wereyour own.
And in there, we have someeducational tools explaining
what are the forces and how totell what's the difference
between an excellent cut diamondversus a VG cut diamond, a very
good cut diamond, right?
To help the sales associates onthe floor walk the customers
through the sale process andhelp them find the right diamond
for them.
And it can come from two milliondiamonds all over the world,
(22:38):
right?
Um, and and then the second one,which is how can you help the
retail partners make sure thatthey pay the right price for the
stones that they want to source?
So through a partnership that wehave with GIA, for any natural
stone that's out there, all youneed to do is punch a
certificate number.
And uni right away understandsall the characteristics and the
parameters of the stone, theforces, the finishing, the
(22:59):
fluorescence, the depth percent,and all those diamond two
details, right?
And comes up with a benchmarkingtool of helping you say, you
know, this is a round 170 Gcolor VS1 clarity, but uni has
50 more of these.
And I don't know what you areoffered for that specific stone,
but I can help you findsomething that's maybe 10%
cheaper because that's theinventory that's available live
(23:20):
for you.
All you need to do is click andfind a similar stone and make
that purchase instead.
And it's gonna be if it's in theUS, next day you'll have it in
your store.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Wow.
And man, customers, I feel arelike are really driven by that
deal.
And I think that when you canwhen you can give them that
whole like super transparentspiel where, hey, I'm fighting
with you, let's work side byside.
I do feel like it's very uhcompelling to to sit there and
be like, hey, let's worktogether to find you the best
deal.
(23:48):
I certainly like that when itcomes to um, you know, even
buying like, yeah, anythingthat's uh that I kind of feel
like is an investment.
Um, even if it's tools, likebuying going to a hardware store
and having them be like, let'sfind you the best deal.
And it's like, oh, I love it.
They they have my best interestin heart.
They're not just taking mymoney.
Uh, I love that kind ofcompelling uh thought process.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
Would you wouldn't you say that like the best sales
rep that you've seen or workedwith or like you know, have sold
something to you?
They don't try to actually sellyou something, they wanted to
work alongside with you.
They want to help you, yeah,help you, exactly.
They want to solve a pain thatyou have, right?
So interesting that for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Great reframing of it.
I love that.
And um, I guess at the sametime, what about um, you know,
you're talking about these pricechanges.
And I sometimes wonder howmemoing can work with like, you
know, things are fluctuatingevery single day.
And while it's in yourinventory, um, you know, the
(24:46):
price might be going up or downor or to the side.
Uh, are you is that somethingthat you have to like kind of
deal with on a on an ongoingbasis?
Is like obviously a retailerwants to have the stone in their
inventory and they want to showit to their customer.
Um, how do you handle like itmight be in their hands and then
the price might go down or itmight go up?
(25:06):
Um, how do you handle thatsomething like that?
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Yeah, I mean, uh it's interesting that you're
saying that retailers want tohold that inventory because I
think that like maybe you canalso chime in with your angle
here, but I think that like moreand more retail partners, no one
wants to hold the inventory anylonger.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
No one wants to in their hands, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
Exactly.
Right, and with price changingall the time, it's it's a pain
to try to figure out how toprice your inventory as well,
right?
And and we have tools fordealers to help them also price
their inventory and make surethat they're uh uh competitively
uh priced and make sure thatthey their stones are getting
selected because we have thedata again.
Uh uh, but when it comes tomemoing options, if no retail
(25:46):
part, no retail store actuallywants to have the stock in hand,
then you have absoluteflexibility because you can sell
more efficiently.
You can always have something inyour store next day without
actually owning that inventoryyourself.
Right?
So you can move faster, you canbe leaner.
That you're staying lean, you'restaying, you know, agile because
you don't actually are investedin that stock that you have in
(26:08):
case that you need to sellfirst.
And you can actually cater tomore customer demands in real
time.
So whenever a customer comes inand they want something that you
don't have in the case, or evenif you do, maybe you can find
something that's cheaper thatyou don't you don't want to lose
on the inventory that you haveright now, you're sitting on.
So you can be more nimble, let'scall it, and just order that
other stone that's coming from,let's say, you know, 47th Street
(26:29):
or whatever.
Next day you'll have it instore.
You can call the customers, showthem maybe alongside the stone
that you have in case, maybe twomore options and let them choose
based on what's actually thedelivery the most value for
them.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Yeah, I I'm just worried though, sometimes that
we're headed for the a futurewhere retail stores have no
product in their in their cases,you know?
And like you're you're totallyright.
Hey, if you don't have anyproducts, then you can be
flexible, you can be anything toanyone.
However, man, I don't there arecertain um watch brands that I
(27:01):
really enjoy.
If you walk in the store, uhnone of the watches are for
sale.
And it's like, uh, we don'tactually have anything.
This is just a a brandinglocation.
And I'm like, I feel like we'remissing the point of a store.
Isn't it the same thing withlike going into um into a
jewelry shop?
Man, I would be kind of a bummerif you walk in and it just like
(27:22):
all virtual, virtual products.
Uh, I feel like I would kind ofbe missing something.
There is something to be gainedfor a retailer, but I feel like
the end consumer slightlysuffers.
Don't you don't wouldn't youagree?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
They're looking for something for sure.
They want to see something intheir eyes, right?
Um, and and definitely they wantto see that the store has
options.
But at the end of the day, whatthey really care for is quality
service.
Because yeah, they become moresharp, like they could become
sharper on the price.
They want to make sure that theyget the pricing right.
But at the end of the day, ifthe store and the sales
(27:55):
associate helped them find theexact stone that they wanted.
So let's say the couple gotengaged, you know, or they they
you know, the couple got engagedin in January 21st, they would
want a 121 karat stone, which isexactly that specific stone to
mark that special day.
Right.
So for those cases, you want tomake sure that you get the
(28:16):
experience and you want to makesure that someone sees you.
And that's by the way, what bestretail stores are doing, because
they're building loyalty andtrust.
And that they know that maybethe customer will come to you
first time, they don't reallyknow you, right?
And they will make that firstpurchase with you because you
were sharper on the price.
But what will keep them longterm and what get them coming
(28:37):
back to your store, and thatloyalty and trust is built
through making sure that you'rehelping them out and you're
positioning yourself as apartner that can help them scale
and can help them, you know, uhthat they will remember always
remember you the best moments oftheir lives, right?
And you see that as well becauseyour best customers are coming
back to you each and every time.
And that's about building thattrust and loyalty.
Uh, that's that that that's atleast like the atmosphere that
(28:58):
the retailer store will try tocreate, even if the product is
not presented right at the rightend, but the ability to pull in
inventory from anywhereessentially and to find that
specific stone alongside thecustomer, let them choose
exactly what they want to see.
Right.
That I think goes a long waywith customers, even still.
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
You know, it you're right.
I mean, the the relationshipsthat retailers have with their
shoppers is the exactrelationship that they expect
from their uh their vendorpartners, um, in which we
consider ourselves.
Uh, I've just found that, youknow, the relationship sometimes
with a shopper could havestarted, you know, before the
(29:37):
shopper was even born.
It was with their parents and itwas with the, you know, they
sold the engagement ring totheir parents.
And then, you know, they sawthis this child um, you know,
growing up and they're coming infor these anniversary guests,
maybe with the, maybe with, youknow, one of the parents.
And then, you know, they sellthem their engagement ring
(29:57):
afterwards.
That's a that's a sale that is,you know, 25, 30 years in the
making.
And with us, we had to changeour mindset as well.
We have to uh really sit downand like hold the hands of some
of our retailers as we walk themthrough what a website um you
know process would look like.
And it's not just because youknow, websites are complex or
(30:20):
they require a lot of thought oranything, it's partially because
they expect that kind ofservice, because that's the
service that they provide totheir shoppers.
SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
So it's a generational sale as well,
right?
Because if the father used tosell diamonds out of a case that
he was holding, right, now theyneed to move online.
You're you're the pioneer, let'scall it, right?
You want to give make sure thatyou're giving the absolute best
service.
So now you're not only sellingthe technology, you're selling
the service and you're sellingthe experience, right?
(30:50):
So uh, you know, I I'm curiousalso to learn kind of like how
you go about trying to figureout how to change the narrative
or finding your way with acustomer that is they don't
actually understand the value ofwhat you bring to the table.
SPEAKER_00 (31:02):
Yeah, you know, it's hard.
It it really is.
I think part of it is, you know,we do things like this podcast,
a lot of education surroundingit.
However, what I am a big focuson, um, actually locally too,
for my own community, is I'mvery um interested in the next
generation.
Um, we did a whole campaignabout it for uh Punchmark.
(31:23):
We did a whole campaign where wewere catering specifically to
next generation.
Very transparently, part of thereason for this is because we
have found our best, uh a lot ofour best customers are the next
generation.
And what do I mean by that?
It's like the you know they'resavvy, yeah, 25 to 45 year olds
who took over their parents'store or their parents' parents'
(31:46):
store and are moving on, orsometimes it's like a cousin or
a uh you know, a store managerthat has been there for a long
time.
But what we find is that they ithammers home a lot easier.
But what I just find is thatthis next generation I find very
interesting.
We're in a very uh tumultuoustime in in the world, and I find
(32:07):
that the more education and themore um eyes wide open this next
group is going to be.
Uh, the the time is very soonwhen that generation, you know,
like I said, 25 to 45 are goingto be making a lot of the
decisions um as like they getmore and more.
(32:28):
I don't want to say marketshare, but like, I guess um, I
don't either power or likedecision-making capabilities.
And that's what I find it's alot of education, but it's also
knowing who you're talking to.
You have to speak to this nextgeneration.
A lot of times we see it atshows, we are there, who sits
down?
It's gonna be uh the storeowner, and they might be, you
(32:51):
know, 65, 75, uh, almost readyto retire.
And then it's the next person.
And I find it very thoseconversations are super
interesting because you have toalmost explain it twice.
You have to explain it to thenext generation who is like, you
know, probably going to be usingthe tool the most, but you also
have to make it to the other,uh, the actual store owner, and
(33:14):
like kind of cater and be like,hey, this is going to be good
for the long run.
This is going to be aninvestment, this is going to be
a um something that scales.
And I find that theconversation, you almost have to
cover all of the bases all atthe same time because some of
the points matter so much to oneparty or the other, uh, that if
(33:35):
you skip over them, then you areleaving a lot of important
information um in your pocket.
SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
That that is so true because I think that's like that
that generation is going througha digital transformation, right?
And a lot of the businesses thatused to be very much brick and
mortar are now going more andmore online.
And they need to generate thatonline presence, either it be
with social media, either it bewith having a website, either it
be with finding more ways tosource.
And I think that what reallyaligns, I would say, between uni
(34:04):
and punchmark is that you'remaking the sale twice, just like
you mentioned.
And I think that what helps usuh you know stand apart is that
we have that combination ofexpertise, right?
So myself, I come, let's call itfrom more of a startup and
high-tech background, right?
I used to work in differentstartups, et cetera.
But we have people uh in ourcompany that have been around
(34:25):
the trade for like 30 years or25 years, diamond tears, very
heavy experts on like, you know,picking up the loop and looking
at each and every stone.
They've probably looked at100,000 stones in their lives,
right?
Um, and then so so we need tohandle that conversation of
knowing how to talk to the firstgeneration, only diamonds, only
about building trust and arelationship because they're
looking for partners.
(34:45):
They used to work with peoplefor 25, 30 years.
So you want to make sure thatyou come across as a trusted
partner and ally.
But at the same time, you wantto sell technology, you want to
sell scalability.
So the idea of that, you know,you can have an endless aisle,
all of the options in the world,powered through technology and
AI, but at the same time, youwant to stay very much uh, you
(35:06):
know, feet on the ground, saythat I'm here for the longer
term, I'm here to build thisrelationship with you.
We're not going anywhere.
So just trying to strike thatbalance or find a way in the
in-between to talk about thosetwo different elements.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
It's it's very, it is a difficult one.
I think that the more, the onlyway I get better at it is by
doing it more.
It's part of the reason why Ihave um these retailer
roundtables where I get to sitdown and and hear what's
important.
And increasingly it's likewhat's important to me is isn't
sometimes not even the top fiveor 10 for some of these
shoppers.
(35:38):
They are just trying to, youknow, make a sale, or they're
just trying to find a moreefficient way to get through it,
or they're making the transitionfrom um, you know, uh, what is
it, like um, you know, a greenbook um point of sale system
where they're logging everythingby hand into a digital one and
(35:59):
getting up with the the currenttimes, those transitions are so
important to them.
And for me, if I'm just like, ofcourse you should be doing that,
you you need to do that quicker.
Uh when you start getting likeexasperated, I feel like
suddenly they get defensive.
And then it's like, oh, okay,like, hang on, this is a big
deal for you.
Let's help you through this.
And then we can talk about if ifwe start talking about these
(36:21):
omnichannel in-store cateredexperiences before we start
talking about like, hey man, youyou got your inventory online.
Um, I feel like we are kind ofuh putting the cart before the
horse in a lot of situations.
SPEAKER_02 (36:37):
Yeah, and it's it, you know, a a store owner cares
about so much stuff.
Oh, so much.
It's it's not only about thepoint of sale system or the
diamond inventory that they needto source and find and show
their customers.
It's about making sure thattheir sales associate showed up
on time and making sure thatthey're stocked up towards the
season and that the price ofgold bites are are through the
roof now.
So how am I actually gonna makeit next year?
(36:58):
And the benturer that you needhelp from, and you know, the
lease and they care about amillion different things.
So it's about trying to findthem, I would say, uh, let's
call it in a qualifiedenvironment, which is they're
willing to listen, they'rewilling to talk about what's
stopping them in their tracksinto helping their business
grow.
And then trying to alignalongside with them and tell
them, listen, I can, you know,help you get through this with
(37:22):
either it'd be supplementing onyour inventory to make sure that
you have all the options in theworld, either it'd be helping
you build that own-channelexperience so you can scale your
operations and try to sellonline even without having to
actually invest all that effort.
And that's where we're gonnabuild the website for you,
right?
But like helping them find theirway into helping them solve one
(37:42):
problem at a time, or what it'scalled, one problem at a day, to
make sure that they're they'rethey're doing more with the same
resources that they can investin.
SPEAKER_00 (37:50):
I think it's just yeah, empowering them.
That's uh that's a great way tolook at it though, you have.
Um, so if people were interestedin learning more about uni
diamonds, having you knowmillions of diamonds at their at
their fingertips, maybe gettingthese market reports to see uh
what their inventory is is doingor which ones they should be
investing into.
Um, where should they go and tolearn more about uni diamonds?
SPEAKER_02 (38:11):
Yeah, so you can just uh go to uni.diamonds,
uni.diamonds, uh plural, um, andyou can read all about us.
You can just uh sign up rightthere, right then.
We'll be in touch, you know, ina matter of minutes.
Um, and you can find over therelike uh all of what we're all
about, the access to themarketplace itself, uh, with
having that endless aisle andoptions.
(38:32):
We can talk about the demoprogram over there, and you can
find more about uh you know thein-store experience with that
facet app of like how we canhelp visualize under your
branded guidelines in-store.
You can use it on your iPad app.
And over there you'll also findlike a blog post.
Uh, we're posting a bunch ofcontent success stories and blog
posts about how we're helpingjewelers and retail stores and
(38:53):
dealers.
Um, and over there you'll alsofind like the industry report.
We have a quarterly industryreport.
So we've issued an industryreport for all of 2025.
We've just recently uh publishedthe industry report of what has
been changing in the market inQ1 of 2026.
So that's also live.
You can check it out.
Just uh keep in touch and thenwe're hoping to see you.
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Yeah, I think that the the industry reports are are
so interesting.
Like I was saying, having aunbiased and like kind of a
neutral presentation of data issomething that I uh I feel like
there needs to be more of.
Um, a lot of times, a lot ofindustry or a lot of businesses,
um, it's so the data is soprecious that they keep it
really close to their chest.
(39:34):
Understandably so.
They spend a lot of time andmoney aggregating their their
data.
But whenever there's um wheneverthere's a report that comes
around that like just showsstuff in in you know what you
might call plain text, man, Ieat that right up.
I find it so exciting to um tolearn how things are moving and
just to get a betterunderstanding because I don't
want to store own a store.
So I don't know how things arefluctuating in real time.
(39:56):
I can only see what's uh doneonline.
So I really appreciate what youguys are doing at uni.
SPEAKER_02 (40:01):
Yeah, and and by the way, just to say all the
reporting that we do iscompletely anonymous, right?
So um the supplier doesn't knowwho the buyer is, the buyer
doesn't know who the supplieris.
It's all making sure that it'sabout where the stone is at,
make sure that the price isright.
As simple as that, we ship itover to you.
And our reporting as well isdone aggregated so that there is
no specific insight that comesup and says, you know, this is
(40:22):
by a specific supplier thatchanged this and that pricing of
this and that policy.
It's all aggregated and makingsure that we're not uh exposing
any sensitive information.
But at the same time, we dobelieve that we have a story to
tell about how the industry ischanging and shifting in real
time, powered by data, poweredby AI, completely unbiased and
for everyone to consume in realtime and make use of their own.
(40:45):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
Well, thank you so much, Joab.
I really appreciate your time.
Um, I'll have all thatinformation in the show notes
below.
Um, go check them out.
I think that it's uh it's areally compelling information,
and uh I really appreciate yourtime, Joe.
Thank you so much.
It was very interesting.
Keep in awesome.
Have a good rest of your day,everybody.
We'll be back next week, Tuesdaywith another show.
Bye.
(41:12):
Alright, everybody, that'sanother show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was Joab fromUni Diamonds.
Uh, you can learn more aboutthem in the show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(41:34):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L O U P E.
Thanks, we'll be back next weekTuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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