May 12, 2026 • 29 mins
Mike sits down with Andre Woons from Nivoda on what it takes to help jewelers sell from global inventory while keeping fulfillment fast, reliable, and margin-friendly. We also dig into why gemstones are harder to sell online, how in-store tools change the customer journey, and what comes next with finished jewelry and flexible credit.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpel.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I have on AndreWounds, and he's with Novota.
I had Andre on about two and ahalf years ago to talk all about
what Novota was creating.
Back then, they burst onto thescene with their diamond
(00:23):
repository and their in-store uhmobile experience.
And I wanted to follow up withhim.
It's one of our best performingepisodes of all time.
People really were interested inwhat they created.
And Andre talks a little bitmore about how he keeps pushing
the envelope and keeps solvingproblems for retailers.
It is a really interestingconversation.
I think Andre is great and he'sreally leading a push that I
(00:46):
think is important for a lot ofretailers.
So I hope you please enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
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And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo, andtoday I'm joined by Andre Woons
uh with Novota.
How are you doing today, Andre?
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
I'm very good.
Thank you.
Uh yeah, it's uh it's great tobe back.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Yeah, you were our uh most popular episode of 2024
and our third most popularepisode ever.
Uh seems like people must reallyresonate with Novota.
Can you set up for the peoplelistening at home what it is
that Novota does?
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah, for sure.
So uh Nevoda is a B2B onlyplatform, uh, and we help
jewelers to uh sell faster, uh,fulfill smarter and grow their
margins.
So we have a uh marketplace fornatural diamonds, lab brown
diamonds, gemstones, melee, andsoon uh finish jewelry as well.
(02:40):
Uh and we allow our uh ourretailers and our customers to
source from all over the worldin the most efficient uh and and
cost-effective way possible.
And at the same time, we have uhwhat we call sales enablement
tools that allow them to uhconvert customers at a higher
rate by running a virtual salesmodel, whether that is purely
(03:00):
online or in-store or acombination of the of the two.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Wow, that's really exciting.
And I didn't know about thefinished jewelry.
That's uh really exciting that'scoming out right around the
corner.
Um when we last spoke, you usedthe term um diamond repository,
and I thought that that was areally great term.
Um the ability to sourcediamonds from a lot of different
uh locations and and finding theright one, that sounds like it's
(03:29):
increasingly important to the tothe sales pitch um in store,
especially.
Um, is that something that youhave spoken with with retailers
about trying to fulfill?
SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, um you as a retailer,you want to have exactly what
your customer is looking for.
And because diamonds and andgemstones are so unique, um, you
have to make sure that you cancover the global inventory, and
that comes from many, manydifferent places.
So we invested a lot in both uhour supplier network and also
(03:59):
our fulfillment capability.
And essentially it allows you tonow, no matter where the stone
is in the world, we are able touh source it for you and get it
delivered to you in a in a veryfast uh turnaround um so that
you never have to turn acustomer away again.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Wow.
I mean, it sounds like it itlike it would be invaluable.
Um when it comes to like thedifferent specs for a diamond,
uh there's only so many that youcan uh control for, you know,
I'm sure because you know, wealways are looking for the upper
range, but they go all the waydown to um, you know, very
included, you might say.
(04:37):
Uh are you only trying to likehave available or are you trying
to have like the most availablefor like the best diamonds,
quote unquote best diamonds?
Or is there a value to likehaving the less high demand,
less desirable diamonds as well?
Is that also part of your uhyour um pitch?
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's it's whatever our customersand and ultimately the end
customer is is looking for.
So what we see is that of coursethere is a concentration and and
and like some items are movingfaster than others, like uh lab
brown, especially, for example,three to four carriage range is
now very, very popular, but thatdoesn't mean that the other
(05:18):
sizes or specific colors andclarities are not being
purchased.
So we uh we very much believethat in order to be successful,
we have to carry everything.
So at the moment, we have around1 million natural diamonds, 1.6
million labor diamonds, uh closeto 50,000 uh gemstones and
almost 2,000 different um SKUs,if you will, uh in uh in Melee.
(05:44):
So it's really about if acustomer comes to us and say and
and they're saying, look, I wantto buy this, but I can't find it
on the platform, like ourimmediate action is to go and
find it and add it to theplatform because we uh yeah, we
believe that you you need tohave everything uh to be able to
convert customers.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Yeah.
And when we last spoke, you weretalking about how you were um uh
about to start entering thecolor gemstone space and that
that was of interest to you.
It sounds like you're um you'veachieved that.
Can you talk to me about what itis that you guys have um have
available?
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
Yeah, for sure.
So we I think last time when wespoke, we were just like
piloting uh it with a couple ofcustomers and bringing it onto
the platform.
We've now significantly grownour available selection.
And the difference withgemstones compared to diamonds
is that a color is a lot moresubjective, right?
If you look at something that isred on your screen, your take on
(06:39):
how red something is can becompletely different from my uh
my perception of that, evendepending on the screen that
you're using.
So we really work together withour retailers and with our
suppliers to um make sure thatwe have a standardized and
uniform interpretation of color,uh, so that whenever someone is
(07:00):
looking at a red Ruby that theyknow what type of red they're
going to get.
So it's a slightly differentmodel compared to the diamond
model, where with gemstones, wenow have what we call curated
inventory.
So that is inventory that wehave uh Q seed up front.
We have taken the media of thosegemstones so that it's standard
(07:20):
across uh and and they are uhyeah, ready to be shipped um
from our offices.
Um that's also why the selectionis a little bit smaller because
we yeah, we we curate theselection to make sure that you
only get the the best qualitygemstones uh that you can that
you can possibly have.
Uh and separately we we do seethat uh gemstones is is uh
(07:43):
trending more and more.
And a lot of our retailers areum looking for education and and
support in how to make thegemstone sale.
So we're also um uh launching orhave launched uh our um gem
club, as we call it, where we dowebinars and educational content
(08:03):
and and really yeah, help ournetwork of retailers with like,
you know, when customers areasking questions about about
this particular uh type ofgemstone, this is the story that
you can tell, and this is howyou can educate them about um
yeah, about the value and andthe uniqueness of it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
It's really interesting.
So just to go back um one step,you were talking about uh color.
And for example, when it in inum design and and painting,
which is what I'm very involvedin, uh, there are Pantone
colors.
So pantones are uh for peoplelistening, um, are standardized
color values where they arebased on a formulaic approach to
(08:42):
color, where if you were toprint the same thing on a
hundred different printers andyou standardize and reset your
printer to this standardizedset, then theoretically, if you
use this Pantone, then thecolors should match up
identically across all of them,which is useful when it comes to
um transposing across differentmediums, such as if you're using
(09:04):
you know acrylic paint versus ifyou're using like um a gloss
print.
Um, is there is the approach yousaid you were trying to get rid
of the subjectiveness of it all?
Is that can you dive in just alittle bit more?
I'm very fascinated in like howyou can standardize, yeah, this
is a very red Ruby versus likeum I don't know, a more I guess
(09:24):
a more purple one or somethinglike that.
How does that work?
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it it's it's a superinteresting uh challenge.
And I think the the approachthat you're describing is is
part of the solution.
So we we do try to, based on theimages that we take, kind of uh
also using AI, try to understandlike what is the exact color
profile.
But what you can't really solvefor, unfortunately, today is how
(09:50):
that then gets presented on ascreen.
So the reflection of the screen,the brightness of the screen, um
whether it's uh a MacBook or aWindows, like all of that has a
has um has an impact.
So I think it one isstandardizing it on the input
layer, but then separately wealso see a lot of value in
(10:11):
having what you would typicallycall master sets, where you have
specific stones in a specificcolor that reference what you
see on the screen so that youcan have an idea of I'm seeing
this on the screen, I'm seeingthis in person, I know what I'm
going to what I'm going to get.
So it's uh yeah, it's a amarriage of online and offline
(10:32):
that's um that is required withgemstone specifically to to make
uh a virtual sale.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
Yeah, because if you can you were talking about
controlling the the media of itall, and I do tend to agree with
that being like probably theonly foolproof approach where if
you were to photograph a set ofstones um across a variety of
colors, but in the sameenvironment, like the same
temperature lights and the sameum equipment in the same light
(11:01):
box, all those things, thentheoretically they should um
have the same uh level ofvariable to it and they should
match together.
Um it just gets like you said,you can't really control a
screen because like uh peopleare at home.
If you like, for example, wereto look at a color and then were
(11:21):
to uh turn up the brightness upor down, it changes the the
color value of uh of what's onyour screen, man.
And then when it comes to likehow the value can be impacted,
you know, thousands, I'm sure,dollars, uh depending on you
know, a couple pixels.
Yeah, that's a lot of uh lot ofpressure.
SPEAKER_02 (11:40):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Uh so yeah, it's it's a superinteresting problem to solve.
And and uh yeah, to to get sortof back to your earlier
question, we've made a lot ofprogress.
We've grown our inventory from afew hundred stones to now a
couple thousand in um in Jaipur,in India, in um New York, uh as
well as in uh Bangkok inThailand, where we're uh where
(12:04):
we're opening at the moment.
So um, yeah, it's a superexciting category and uh one
that retailers are adopting moreand more um uh across the board.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
That's really exciting.
Now, talk to me a little bitmore about the finished jewelry.
Um, this is one that probably alot more uh competition because
more people provide finishedjewelry.
Um what is the the specific,like I guess, problem that you
were trying to solve by havingagain this you had originally
called yourself a diamondrepository and now being also a
(12:37):
finished uh jewelry repository,how does that kind of fit into
the equation?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Yeah, we we've always viewed ourselves as a uh
as a partner to our retailers,and and being a partner means
that you help them witheverything that they that
they're doing and try to makethat either cheaper or more
efficient or give them access tomore um uh more options to make
it more accessible.
So that's really what you knowthe number one question that we
(13:05):
get from retailers all the timeis like, okay, great, I love
that I can buy the diamonds fromyou.
I love that I can buy all theother products, but I'm I'm
selling engagement rings or I'mselling jewelry, and I would
love to buy that from you aswell and to um take advantage of
the of the ease of you knowinvoicing and shipping and and
order tracking, etc.
So it's really answering aquestion from from customers and
(13:29):
and aligned with what we youknow when when Dave and I
started the company about 10years ago, that was always the
plan to to expand into intoFinnish jewelry and and and to
take uh to help with more of theproducts that that a retailer
sells.
So um we are currently pilotingthat with, again, a small group
of customers, really making surethat the experience is top-notch
(13:53):
and that uh especially on afulfillment side as well,
manufacturing jewelry is is uhcomplicated and there's a lot
more that can can go wrong andthat you have to account for.
So we um yeah, we're we're doingthat in a controlled way, but
are super excited about givingthat to uh to customers.
Um and you know, whether it'sengagement rings or tennis
(14:13):
bracelets or pendants, um, weyeah, we we will bring that onto
onto the platform over the nextcouple of months and uh and
we'll continue supportingcustomers uh with that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
We'll talk about like a lot of leverage though,
with you know having all thestones already technically, I
mean, quote unquote, in-house,and then going into um the
finished jewelry.
It sounds like uh definitely anatural progression, but where
do you draw like the the lineand what it is?
I mean, jewelry has so manydifferent options.
I mean, you have just the base,you know, eight main styles, and
(14:46):
then you can go beyond thatbecause there's variations of
eight styles, and then suddenlyyou've got every type of jewelry
imaginable, and there's this onething I keep thinking about you
can't be everything to everyone.
How do you kind of decide?
Is it just like the most popularasks, like you were saying?
Like if someone asks forsomething and you don't have it,
diving after that, or uh did youhave like a more we're gonna go
(15:09):
for the main eight ones orsomething like that?
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Yeah, it's it's a combination of both.
I mean, there are things thatpeople ask us about that they
would love us to solve that uhwe maybe you know can't do yet,
or is is not the most excitinguh um uh from a value add
perspective, or or is somethingthat we do in the future.
So it's it's a combination of uhwhat are people asking for and
(15:33):
where do we feel like indeedthat natural progression where
we can add the most value.
So what we also always um thinkabout is indeed, do we need to
be everything for everyone?
And the answer is kind of yes.
It's more about like what whatspecific configuration of Novota
are you using versus us notdelivering on a specific uh
(15:57):
service or a specificcapability.
So we really see that the waythat people sell and the way
that people buy, uh, that is thedetermining factor in in what
configuration of Novota theyuse, not necessarily the size of
their business or theirgeographic location or whether
they're selling online or or uhpurely in-store.
(16:21):
So it's really fascinating.
And and um yeah, you you see thesame kind of challenges and
problems, you know, whethersomeone is running a single
store or a chain store.
It's um it's it's really uhthere's a lot of similarities in
that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
The expansion uh process is not not for the faint
of heart.
It's it takes a lot oflogistics.
Sounds like a lot of your umyour business strategy has to
come down to logistics.
Is that something I'm saying?
Sounds like something thatyou're you're rather passionate
about.
You guys are a uh a global umglobal company with with many
(16:57):
different locations.
Uh we had specifically talkedabout uh last time about um you
know managing multiple differentuh locations.
Is that something that you feelgets easier over time?
Or this supply chain situationsmake things more complicated no
matter what, and you can'treally you just have to adapt.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
You just have to adapt.
I wish it uh became easier, butthat's definitely not the case.
I think, especially in the lastuh the last year or or year and
a half, I think.
There's uh I I think ultimatelywhat we do as a business uh is
delivering on the promise thatwe make to customers.
So we have to make sure that ifyou sell a specific product,
(17:39):
that we get that to you in aspecific amount of time, that we
communicate it up front, andthat allows you to serve as your
end customer.
So uh yes, we are a digitalplatform.
Yes, a lot of the tools that wehave are digital, but everything
that is uh it's all underpinnedby by our operational and
fulfillment capabilities.
So uh as we scale and as we addmore complexity and more
(18:02):
products, that is definitely uhan exciting challenge to solve
for people.
And yeah, especially in the lastyear, year and a half with
things like tariffs and with umyou know uh conflicts around the
world affecting uh logistic uhlanes, it's been it's been
interesting, but at the at thesame time also a reminder of the
(18:23):
the value that we providebecause customers don't have to
worry about it.
Uh we take care of that for themand and we you know reroute,
adapt, and make sure that thingsstill make it from A to B in the
fastest way possible.
So it's uh it's a very excitinguh uh challenge and something
that will always continue toimprove.
(18:43):
And I'm sure we'll we'll get newchallenges thrown at us uh you
know every every other month,every other quarter.
Um but it's uh yeah, uh we wesee that as a core part of of
the business and and and whatmakes the engine run basically.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Ah, you know what?
If you see it as an advantageand like uh as as part of your
DNA, then I guess that's ahealthier perspective than see
it as just like a you know a bigcan of worms.
So now, Andre, you were, Iguess, had launched when I last
spoke with you your uh mobileapp and you were working on your
in-store experience.
Uh, could you talk to me likethe unique, because they're not
(19:20):
the same.
Can you talk to me about the umwhere each one fits into the
into the business experience?
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Yeah, for sure.
The mobile app is more what wewould call a companion app to
the platform.
So it has the same capabilitiesin terms of searching and
purchasing and order trackingand um, yeah, like viewing your
invoices, et cetera, et cetera.
The showroom app is what we uhhave built for the in-store
(19:49):
sales experience.
So that app is used by salesconsultants on the floor to use
together with the end customerand to take them through the
sales process that they have,uh, all the way from picking a,
you know, the perfect diamondfor them all the way to soon
picking the perfect engagementring for them at the same time.
So that allows our retailers tosell from the global inventory
(20:12):
that I mentioned earlier withthe 2.6 or 2.7 million stones
that we have.
So together with the customer,you can go through a filtering
process and find like the coupleof options that fit their
budget, that fit their wishes,um, rather than only being able
to quote from you know what youhave in in inventory or what you
have called for on memo.
(20:34):
So that's been um that's been agreat product and something that
our retailers really uh reallylove.
Um and what's interesting aboutthat one as well is that we're
seeing usage that is kind ofoutside of what we originally
built it for.
And that those are always thethe interesting things to
follow.
So one of the things that a lotof people do uh and want to do
(20:57):
is actually share from thatshowroom experience a link that
people can take home and look atafter they have left the store
as well.
So it's really sort of bridgingthat purity website versus
purity in-store with somethingthat can be used um
interchangeably and and uh at atdifferent times as well.
(21:17):
So uh it's been uh it's beengreat and definitely um yeah, uh
a valuable tool for forretailers to make that that
virtual sale uh possible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
It's definitely one of the trending topics that I've
been following.
I've been calling them a lot oftimes these iPad experiences
where um they're you know it'sbridging, like you said,
bridging the online to the instore, what we call omnichannel.
And there's some great buildersand great um tools that are
available out there.
(21:48):
And increasingly we're findingthat a lot of people, uh a lot
of stores, when they go toremodel their stores, they are
uh setting aside or likedesignating some very valuable.
Square footage of their storesto like a coffee table sort of
setup where there's a coffeetable, two, three chairs sitting
around it, maybe even connectedto a TV that's above it so
(22:11):
people can look on and see thatthings are happening.
And I would that would be veryum very interesting to me, would
be to be able to sit down andit's not you're not just
choosing from what's in thestore, you're choosing from
what's yeah, available in um,you know, thousands or millions
of diamonds all around theworld.
Uh, that is very uh exciting tome.
That sounds perfect.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And and I think that that isthe, you know, everyone wants to
have a personalized experiencewhen they're uh when they're
going through uh the you knowthe the important process of
whether it's an engagement ringor maybe a piece of jewelry.
And and I think that's whatenables that to happen.
And yeah, we're we're seeingthat more and more as well uh
across the companies that wework with.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Now, it in addition to this, it sounds like you guys
have a great infrastructure.
You're working on finishedjewelry, you're working or
you're rolling out more and morediamonds, you have an in-store
experience as well as acompanion app.
Um, it sounds like a fullspectrum.
Is there anything else that youguys are working on or anything
you can tease for people thatare listening that might be
interested in getting intoNovoda?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Um I think those are the those are the main things.
Definitely the finished jewelry,like you said, it's uh it's
simple to say, but there's a lotof uh different products within
that.
So that will uh that will takeuh a lot of our focus and effort
over the foreseeable future.
I think the part that we see asthe uh that completes the the
(23:34):
offering is is our creditoffering.
Uh a lot of retailers umobviously cash flow is
difficult, and and we have builtan offering that allows you to
pay in either 30 or 60 days, uhand be able to switch that
depending on the order,depending on the value.
And uh yeah, we're continuing toinvest in that as well to bring
(23:56):
more liquidity to the industryand and allow people to transact
um in ways that uh are optimizedfor you know their specific
business uh setup.
So it's really the marketplace,the fulfillment, the uh
financial element of it, andthen the sales enablement tools
that that are um yeah, thecomplete picture for us.
(24:17):
Um and we we don't see itworking if one of those are are
missing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, because just in thinkingof, you know, if you're doing
this experience, you know, youmight sit down with a customer
and they might pick out yeah, anengagement ring setting and a
diamond, and they might becoming from two different
locations.
It might take a little bit oftime.
Um technically considered likememoing them something and
having them uh hold on to it forthe for the time being and then
(24:45):
um yeah, accepting paymentlater.
I could see how that could be uhyeah, a cash flow crunch for uh
a retailer if they're expectedto pay everything up front uh
before they take um take paymentfrom the client.
Um that definitely makes a lotof sense to have that that
feature in there.
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
It's it's giving them theflexibility to uh to pay in in a
way that works for theirbusiness.
And and uh yeah, customers arevery different with that.
Some prefer to pay up front,some prefer to spread it out,
some prefer to do it indeed inat a later time.
And and we uh yeah, we try toaccommodate that as as much as
(25:22):
possible.
And and yeah, to to what I saidearlier, really be a partner
there where we we understandthat realities are are different
for every company and and wewant to meet everyone where
they're at and and support themin the best way possible.
So um, yeah, that that's thatproduct uh looks very simple on
the front end, but there's a lotof uh financial complexity on
(25:44):
the back end.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Oh man, I can only imagine, especially when you're
dealing with, you know, umpayments across multiple
countries, I mean, I'm surehundreds of retailers.
Uh that could be more than whatI would want to get into, but it
sounds like you guys are takingit in stride.
Um, as COO and and a and aco-founder, um, is that are are
(26:05):
you, I mean, the state of theglobal supply chain is just so
complicated.
Um, are you ambitious to keepopening up more more offices?
Is that kind of like the endgoal or where do you go from
here?
It sounds like uh you're alreadyquite successful.
Is it just more more offices orjust doing more of what you're
doing right now?
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
Yeah, it's not necessarily more offices.
I think we always look at youknow, where is the supply or
where is where does it makesense for us to open uh so that
we can service our customersbetter.
So uh we are looking at somelocations in the US outside of
our New York office so that wecan be closer to where our
customers are located.
We opened Thailand this year tobe closer to the supply on
(26:47):
gemstones.
Um, so yeah, the the goal is notto have more offices per se, uh,
but it's more about where doesit make sense and can we deliver
more value?
And I think, you know, the thefact that it is difficult and
that there are so manychallenges along the way is
actually the part that, at leastpersonally, that's who that
excites me uh in a very big way,because those are the problems
(27:10):
worth solving and those are thethings that um yeah, really do
deliver the value for customers.
So you always have to remindyourself of that whenever
there's like a new change andand you're thinking, oh my god,
how how are we going to dealwith this one?
But ultimately that's that thoseare the things that are well
worth solving and and and youknow solving big problems is is
(27:32):
what gets me up every singleday.
SPEAKER_01 (27:34):
Wow.
That's very inspiring.
I'm so excited to hear that,Andre.
Um, if people want to hear moreabout uh Novota, maybe consider
um signing up.
Where should they go?
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Uh they can go to Nevota.com um and yeah, um sign
up forms on the website.
And as soon as you sign up, youuh one of our team will be in
touch uh to yeah, uh hear how wecan best support you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Awesome.
And everybody, if you do that,maybe let them know in the loop
sent you.
Makes this look good.
Uh thank you so much, Andre.
I really appreciate your time.
Uh I think we'll call it a wrapthere.
But everybody, I appreciate youall listening.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you.
(28:18):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was AndreWoons, and he's with Novota.
If you're interested aboutNovota, you can check them out
in the show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(28:40):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week Tuesdaywith another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpel.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I have on AndreWounds, and he's with Novota.
I had Andre on about two and ahalf years ago to talk all about
what Novota was creating.
Back then, they burst onto thescene with their diamond
(00:23):
repository and their in-store uhmobile experience.
And I wanted to follow up withhim.
It's one of our best performingepisodes of all time.
People really were interested inwhat they created.
And Andre talks a little bitmore about how he keeps pushing
the envelope and keeps solvingproblems for retailers.
It is a really interestingconversation.
I think Andre is great and he'sreally leading a push that I
(00:46):
think is important for a lot ofretailers.
So I hope you please enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
This episode is brought to you by PunchMark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology with decades of
experience and long-lastingindustry relationships.
Punchmark enables jewelrybusinesses to flourish in any
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We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:15):
been friends way before becomingclients.
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much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
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It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:37):
together your digital andphysical world in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo, andtoday I'm joined by Andre Woons
uh with Novota.
How are you doing today, Andre?
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
I'm very good.
Thank you.
Uh yeah, it's uh it's great tobe back.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Yeah, you were our uh most popular episode of 2024
and our third most popularepisode ever.
Uh seems like people must reallyresonate with Novota.
Can you set up for the peoplelistening at home what it is
that Novota does?
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah, for sure.
So uh Nevoda is a B2B onlyplatform, uh, and we help
jewelers to uh sell faster, uh,fulfill smarter and grow their
margins.
So we have a uh marketplace fornatural diamonds, lab brown
diamonds, gemstones, melee, andsoon uh finish jewelry as well.
(02:40):
Uh and we allow our uh ourretailers and our customers to
source from all over the worldin the most efficient uh and and
cost-effective way possible.
And at the same time, we have uhwhat we call sales enablement
tools that allow them to uhconvert customers at a higher
rate by running a virtual salesmodel, whether that is purely
(03:00):
online or in-store or acombination of the of the two.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Wow, that's really exciting.
And I didn't know about thefinished jewelry.
That's uh really exciting that'scoming out right around the
corner.
Um when we last spoke, you usedthe term um diamond repository,
and I thought that that was areally great term.
Um the ability to sourcediamonds from a lot of different
uh locations and and finding theright one, that sounds like it's
(03:29):
increasingly important to the tothe sales pitch um in store,
especially.
Um, is that something that youhave spoken with with retailers
about trying to fulfill?
SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, um you as a retailer,you want to have exactly what
your customer is looking for.
And because diamonds and andgemstones are so unique, um, you
have to make sure that you cancover the global inventory, and
that comes from many, manydifferent places.
So we invested a lot in both uhour supplier network and also
(03:59):
our fulfillment capability.
And essentially it allows you tonow, no matter where the stone
is in the world, we are able touh source it for you and get it
delivered to you in a in a veryfast uh turnaround um so that
you never have to turn acustomer away again.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Wow.
I mean, it sounds like it itlike it would be invaluable.
Um when it comes to like thedifferent specs for a diamond,
uh there's only so many that youcan uh control for, you know,
I'm sure because you know, wealways are looking for the upper
range, but they go all the waydown to um, you know, very
included, you might say.
(04:37):
Uh are you only trying to likehave available or are you trying
to have like the most availablefor like the best diamonds,
quote unquote best diamonds?
Or is there a value to likehaving the less high demand,
less desirable diamonds as well?
Is that also part of your uhyour um pitch?
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's it's whatever our customersand and ultimately the end
customer is is looking for.
So what we see is that of coursethere is a concentration and and
and like some items are movingfaster than others, like uh lab
brown, especially, for example,three to four carriage range is
now very, very popular, but thatdoesn't mean that the other
(05:18):
sizes or specific colors andclarities are not being
purchased.
So we uh we very much believethat in order to be successful,
we have to carry everything.
So at the moment, we have around1 million natural diamonds, 1.6
million labor diamonds, uh closeto 50,000 uh gemstones and
almost 2,000 different um SKUs,if you will, uh in uh in Melee.
(05:44):
So it's really about if acustomer comes to us and say and
and they're saying, look, I wantto buy this, but I can't find it
on the platform, like ourimmediate action is to go and
find it and add it to theplatform because we uh yeah, we
believe that you you need tohave everything uh to be able to
convert customers.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Yeah.
And when we last spoke, you weretalking about how you were um uh
about to start entering thecolor gemstone space and that
that was of interest to you.
It sounds like you're um you'veachieved that.
Can you talk to me about what itis that you guys have um have
available?
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
Yeah, for sure.
So we I think last time when wespoke, we were just like
piloting uh it with a couple ofcustomers and bringing it onto
the platform.
We've now significantly grownour available selection.
And the difference withgemstones compared to diamonds
is that a color is a lot moresubjective, right?
If you look at something that isred on your screen, your take on
(06:39):
how red something is can becompletely different from my uh
my perception of that, evendepending on the screen that
you're using.
So we really work together withour retailers and with our
suppliers to um make sure thatwe have a standardized and
uniform interpretation of color,uh, so that whenever someone is
(07:00):
looking at a red Ruby that theyknow what type of red they're
going to get.
So it's a slightly differentmodel compared to the diamond
model, where with gemstones, wenow have what we call curated
inventory.
So that is inventory that wehave uh Q seed up front.
We have taken the media of thosegemstones so that it's standard
(07:20):
across uh and and they are uhyeah, ready to be shipped um
from our offices.
Um that's also why the selectionis a little bit smaller because
we yeah, we we curate theselection to make sure that you
only get the the best qualitygemstones uh that you can that
you can possibly have.
Uh and separately we we do seethat uh gemstones is is uh
(07:43):
trending more and more.
And a lot of our retailers areum looking for education and and
support in how to make thegemstone sale.
So we're also um uh launching orhave launched uh our um gem
club, as we call it, where we dowebinars and educational content
(08:03):
and and really yeah, help ournetwork of retailers with like,
you know, when customers areasking questions about about
this particular uh type ofgemstone, this is the story that
you can tell, and this is howyou can educate them about um
yeah, about the value and andthe uniqueness of it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
It's really interesting.
So just to go back um one step,you were talking about uh color.
And for example, when it in inum design and and painting,
which is what I'm very involvedin, uh, there are Pantone
colors.
So pantones are uh for peoplelistening, um, are standardized
color values where they arebased on a formulaic approach to
(08:42):
color, where if you were toprint the same thing on a
hundred different printers andyou standardize and reset your
printer to this standardizedset, then theoretically, if you
use this Pantone, then thecolors should match up
identically across all of them,which is useful when it comes to
um transposing across differentmediums, such as if you're using
(09:04):
you know acrylic paint versus ifyou're using like um a gloss
print.
Um, is there is the approach yousaid you were trying to get rid
of the subjectiveness of it all?
Is that can you dive in just alittle bit more?
I'm very fascinated in like howyou can standardize, yeah, this
is a very red Ruby versus likeum I don't know, a more I guess
(09:24):
a more purple one or somethinglike that.
How does that work?
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, it it's it's a superinteresting uh challenge.
And I think the the approachthat you're describing is is
part of the solution.
So we we do try to, based on theimages that we take, kind of uh
also using AI, try to understandlike what is the exact color
profile.
But what you can't really solvefor, unfortunately, today is how
(09:50):
that then gets presented on ascreen.
So the reflection of the screen,the brightness of the screen, um
whether it's uh a MacBook or aWindows, like all of that has a
has um has an impact.
So I think it one isstandardizing it on the input
layer, but then separately wealso see a lot of value in
(10:11):
having what you would typicallycall master sets, where you have
specific stones in a specificcolor that reference what you
see on the screen so that youcan have an idea of I'm seeing
this on the screen, I'm seeingthis in person, I know what I'm
going to what I'm going to get.
So it's uh yeah, it's a amarriage of online and offline
(10:32):
that's um that is required withgemstone specifically to to make
uh a virtual sale.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
Yeah, because if you can you were talking about
controlling the the media of itall, and I do tend to agree with
that being like probably theonly foolproof approach where if
you were to photograph a set ofstones um across a variety of
colors, but in the sameenvironment, like the same
temperature lights and the sameum equipment in the same light
(11:01):
box, all those things, thentheoretically they should um
have the same uh level ofvariable to it and they should
match together.
Um it just gets like you said,you can't really control a
screen because like uh peopleare at home.
If you like, for example, wereto look at a color and then were
(11:21):
to uh turn up the brightness upor down, it changes the the
color value of uh of what's onyour screen, man.
And then when it comes to likehow the value can be impacted,
you know, thousands, I'm sure,dollars, uh depending on you
know, a couple pixels.
Yeah, that's a lot of uh lot ofpressure.
SPEAKER_02 (11:40):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Uh so yeah, it's it's a superinteresting problem to solve.
And and uh yeah, to to get sortof back to your earlier
question, we've made a lot ofprogress.
We've grown our inventory from afew hundred stones to now a
couple thousand in um in Jaipur,in India, in um New York, uh as
well as in uh Bangkok inThailand, where we're uh where
(12:04):
we're opening at the moment.
So um, yeah, it's a superexciting category and uh one
that retailers are adopting moreand more um uh across the board.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
That's really exciting.
Now, talk to me a little bitmore about the finished jewelry.
Um, this is one that probably alot more uh competition because
more people provide finishedjewelry.
Um what is the the specific,like I guess, problem that you
were trying to solve by havingagain this you had originally
called yourself a diamondrepository and now being also a
(12:37):
finished uh jewelry repository,how does that kind of fit into
the equation?
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Yeah, we we've always viewed ourselves as a uh
as a partner to our retailers,and and being a partner means
that you help them witheverything that they that
they're doing and try to makethat either cheaper or more
efficient or give them access tomore um uh more options to make
it more accessible.
So that's really what you knowthe number one question that we
(13:05):
get from retailers all the timeis like, okay, great, I love
that I can buy the diamonds fromyou.
I love that I can buy all theother products, but I'm I'm
selling engagement rings or I'mselling jewelry, and I would
love to buy that from you aswell and to um take advantage of
the of the ease of you knowinvoicing and shipping and and
order tracking, etc.
So it's really answering aquestion from from customers and
(13:29):
and aligned with what we youknow when when Dave and I
started the company about 10years ago, that was always the
plan to to expand into intoFinnish jewelry and and and to
take uh to help with more of theproducts that that a retailer
sells.
So um we are currently pilotingthat with, again, a small group
of customers, really making surethat the experience is top-notch
(13:53):
and that uh especially on afulfillment side as well,
manufacturing jewelry is is uhcomplicated and there's a lot
more that can can go wrong andthat you have to account for.
So we um yeah, we're we're doingthat in a controlled way, but
are super excited about givingthat to uh to customers.
Um and you know, whether it'sengagement rings or tennis
(14:13):
bracelets or pendants, um, weyeah, we we will bring that onto
onto the platform over the nextcouple of months and uh and
we'll continue supportingcustomers uh with that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
We'll talk about like a lot of leverage though,
with you know having all thestones already technically, I
mean, quote unquote, in-house,and then going into um the
finished jewelry.
It sounds like uh definitely anatural progression, but where
do you draw like the the lineand what it is?
I mean, jewelry has so manydifferent options.
I mean, you have just the base,you know, eight main styles, and
(14:46):
then you can go beyond thatbecause there's variations of
eight styles, and then suddenlyyou've got every type of jewelry
imaginable, and there's this onething I keep thinking about you
can't be everything to everyone.
How do you kind of decide?
Is it just like the most popularasks, like you were saying?
Like if someone asks forsomething and you don't have it,
diving after that, or uh did youhave like a more we're gonna go
(15:09):
for the main eight ones orsomething like that?
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
Yeah, it's it's a combination of both.
I mean, there are things thatpeople ask us about that they
would love us to solve that uhwe maybe you know can't do yet,
or is is not the most excitinguh um uh from a value add
perspective, or or is somethingthat we do in the future.
So it's it's a combination of uhwhat are people asking for and
(15:33):
where do we feel like indeedthat natural progression where
we can add the most value.
So what we also always um thinkabout is indeed, do we need to
be everything for everyone?
And the answer is kind of yes.
It's more about like what whatspecific configuration of Novota
are you using versus us notdelivering on a specific uh
(15:57):
service or a specificcapability.
So we really see that the waythat people sell and the way
that people buy, uh, that is thedetermining factor in in what
configuration of Novota theyuse, not necessarily the size of
their business or theirgeographic location or whether
they're selling online or or uhpurely in-store.
(16:21):
So it's really fascinating.
And and um yeah, you you see thesame kind of challenges and
problems, you know, whethersomeone is running a single
store or a chain store.
It's um it's it's really uhthere's a lot of similarities in
that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
The expansion uh process is not not for the faint
of heart.
It's it takes a lot oflogistics.
Sounds like a lot of your umyour business strategy has to
come down to logistics.
Is that something I'm saying?
Sounds like something thatyou're you're rather passionate
about.
You guys are a uh a global umglobal company with with many
(16:57):
different locations.
Uh we had specifically talkedabout uh last time about um you
know managing multiple differentuh locations.
Is that something that you feelgets easier over time?
Or this supply chain situationsmake things more complicated no
matter what, and you can'treally you just have to adapt.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
You just have to adapt.
I wish it uh became easier, butthat's definitely not the case.
I think, especially in the lastuh the last year or or year and
a half, I think.
There's uh I I think ultimatelywhat we do as a business uh is
delivering on the promise thatwe make to customers.
So we have to make sure that ifyou sell a specific product,
(17:39):
that we get that to you in aspecific amount of time, that we
communicate it up front, andthat allows you to serve as your
end customer.
So uh yes, we are a digitalplatform.
Yes, a lot of the tools that wehave are digital, but everything
that is uh it's all underpinnedby by our operational and
fulfillment capabilities.
So uh as we scale and as we addmore complexity and more
(18:02):
products, that is definitely uhan exciting challenge to solve
for people.
And yeah, especially in the lastyear, year and a half with
things like tariffs and with umyou know uh conflicts around the
world affecting uh logistic uhlanes, it's been it's been
interesting, but at the at thesame time also a reminder of the
(18:23):
the value that we providebecause customers don't have to
worry about it.
Uh we take care of that for themand and we you know reroute,
adapt, and make sure that thingsstill make it from A to B in the
fastest way possible.
So it's uh it's a very excitinguh uh challenge and something
that will always continue toimprove.
(18:43):
And I'm sure we'll we'll get newchallenges thrown at us uh you
know every every other month,every other quarter.
Um but it's uh yeah, uh we wesee that as a core part of of
the business and and and whatmakes the engine run basically.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Ah, you know what?
If you see it as an advantageand like uh as as part of your
DNA, then I guess that's ahealthier perspective than see
it as just like a you know a bigcan of worms.
So now, Andre, you were, Iguess, had launched when I last
spoke with you your uh mobileapp and you were working on your
in-store experience.
Uh, could you talk to me likethe unique, because they're not
(19:20):
the same.
Can you talk to me about the umwhere each one fits into the
into the business experience?
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Yeah, for sure.
The mobile app is more what wewould call a companion app to
the platform.
So it has the same capabilitiesin terms of searching and
purchasing and order trackingand um, yeah, like viewing your
invoices, et cetera, et cetera.
The showroom app is what we uhhave built for the in-store
(19:49):
sales experience.
So that app is used by salesconsultants on the floor to use
together with the end customerand to take them through the
sales process that they have,uh, all the way from picking a,
you know, the perfect diamondfor them all the way to soon
picking the perfect engagementring for them at the same time.
So that allows our retailers tosell from the global inventory
(20:12):
that I mentioned earlier withthe 2.6 or 2.7 million stones
that we have.
So together with the customer,you can go through a filtering
process and find like the coupleof options that fit their
budget, that fit their wishes,um, rather than only being able
to quote from you know what youhave in in inventory or what you
have called for on memo.
(20:34):
So that's been um that's been agreat product and something that
our retailers really uh reallylove.
Um and what's interesting aboutthat one as well is that we're
seeing usage that is kind ofoutside of what we originally
built it for.
And that those are always thethe interesting things to
follow.
So one of the things that a lotof people do uh and want to do
(20:57):
is actually share from thatshowroom experience a link that
people can take home and look atafter they have left the store
as well.
So it's really sort of bridgingthat purity website versus
purity in-store with somethingthat can be used um
interchangeably and and uh at atdifferent times as well.
(21:17):
So uh it's been uh it's beengreat and definitely um yeah, uh
a valuable tool for forretailers to make that that
virtual sale uh possible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
It's definitely one of the trending topics that I've
been following.
I've been calling them a lot oftimes these iPad experiences
where um they're you know it'sbridging, like you said,
bridging the online to the instore, what we call omnichannel.
And there's some great buildersand great um tools that are
available out there.
(21:48):
And increasingly we're findingthat a lot of people, uh a lot
of stores, when they go toremodel their stores, they are
uh setting aside or likedesignating some very valuable.
Square footage of their storesto like a coffee table sort of
setup where there's a coffeetable, two, three chairs sitting
around it, maybe even connectedto a TV that's above it so
(22:11):
people can look on and see thatthings are happening.
And I would that would be veryum very interesting to me, would
be to be able to sit down andit's not you're not just
choosing from what's in thestore, you're choosing from
what's yeah, available in um,you know, thousands or millions
of diamonds all around theworld.
Uh, that is very uh exciting tome.
That sounds perfect.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And and I think that that isthe, you know, everyone wants to
have a personalized experiencewhen they're uh when they're
going through uh the you knowthe the important process of
whether it's an engagement ringor maybe a piece of jewelry.
And and I think that's whatenables that to happen.
And yeah, we're we're seeingthat more and more as well uh
across the companies that wework with.
SPEAKER_01 (22:54):
Now, it in addition to this, it sounds like you guys
have a great infrastructure.
You're working on finishedjewelry, you're working or
you're rolling out more and morediamonds, you have an in-store
experience as well as acompanion app.
Um, it sounds like a fullspectrum.
Is there anything else that youguys are working on or anything
you can tease for people thatare listening that might be
interested in getting intoNovoda?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Um I think those are the those are the main things.
Definitely the finished jewelry,like you said, it's uh it's
simple to say, but there's a lotof uh different products within
that.
So that will uh that will takeuh a lot of our focus and effort
over the foreseeable future.
I think the part that we see asthe uh that completes the the
(23:34):
offering is is our creditoffering.
Uh a lot of retailers umobviously cash flow is
difficult, and and we have builtan offering that allows you to
pay in either 30 or 60 days, uhand be able to switch that
depending on the order,depending on the value.
And uh yeah, we're continuing toinvest in that as well to bring
(23:56):
more liquidity to the industryand and allow people to transact
um in ways that uh are optimizedfor you know their specific
business uh setup.
So it's really the marketplace,the fulfillment, the uh
financial element of it, andthen the sales enablement tools
that that are um yeah, thecomplete picture for us.
(24:17):
Um and we we don't see itworking if one of those are are
missing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, because just in thinkingof, you know, if you're doing
this experience, you know, youmight sit down with a customer
and they might pick out yeah, anengagement ring setting and a
diamond, and they might becoming from two different
locations.
It might take a little bit oftime.
Um technically considered likememoing them something and
having them uh hold on to it forthe for the time being and then
(24:45):
um yeah, accepting paymentlater.
I could see how that could be uhyeah, a cash flow crunch for uh
a retailer if they're expectedto pay everything up front uh
before they take um take paymentfrom the client.
Um that definitely makes a lotof sense to have that that
feature in there.
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
It's it's giving them theflexibility to uh to pay in in a
way that works for theirbusiness.
And and uh yeah, customers arevery different with that.
Some prefer to pay up front,some prefer to spread it out,
some prefer to do it indeed inat a later time.
And and we uh yeah, we try toaccommodate that as as much as
(25:22):
possible.
And and yeah, to to what I saidearlier, really be a partner
there where we we understandthat realities are are different
for every company and and wewant to meet everyone where
they're at and and support themin the best way possible.
So um, yeah, that that's thatproduct uh looks very simple on
the front end, but there's a lotof uh financial complexity on
(25:44):
the back end.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Oh man, I can only imagine, especially when you're
dealing with, you know, umpayments across multiple
countries, I mean, I'm surehundreds of retailers.
Uh that could be more than whatI would want to get into, but it
sounds like you guys are takingit in stride.
Um, as COO and and a and aco-founder, um, is that are are
(26:05):
you, I mean, the state of theglobal supply chain is just so
complicated.
Um, are you ambitious to keepopening up more more offices?
Is that kind of like the endgoal or where do you go from
here?
It sounds like uh you're alreadyquite successful.
Is it just more more offices orjust doing more of what you're
doing right now?
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
Yeah, it's not necessarily more offices.
I think we always look at youknow, where is the supply or
where is where does it makesense for us to open uh so that
we can service our customersbetter.
So uh we are looking at somelocations in the US outside of
our New York office so that wecan be closer to where our
customers are located.
We opened Thailand this year tobe closer to the supply on
(26:47):
gemstones.
Um, so yeah, the the goal is notto have more offices per se, uh,
but it's more about where doesit make sense and can we deliver
more value?
And I think, you know, the thefact that it is difficult and
that there are so manychallenges along the way is
actually the part that, at leastpersonally, that's who that
excites me uh in a very big way,because those are the problems
(27:10):
worth solving and those are thethings that um yeah, really do
deliver the value for customers.
So you always have to remindyourself of that whenever
there's like a new change andand you're thinking, oh my god,
how how are we going to dealwith this one?
But ultimately that's that thoseare the things that are well
worth solving and and and youknow solving big problems is is
(27:32):
what gets me up every singleday.
SPEAKER_01 (27:34):
Wow.
That's very inspiring.
I'm so excited to hear that,Andre.
Um, if people want to hear moreabout uh Novota, maybe consider
um signing up.
Where should they go?
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Uh they can go to Nevota.com um and yeah, um sign
up forms on the website.
And as soon as you sign up, youuh one of our team will be in
touch uh to yeah, uh hear how wecan best support you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Awesome.
And everybody, if you do that,maybe let them know in the loop
sent you.
Makes this look good.
Uh thank you so much, Andre.
I really appreciate your time.
Uh I think we'll call it a wrapthere.
But everybody, I appreciate youall listening.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Thanks.
Bye.
Thank you.
(28:18):
All right, everybody.
That's another show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was AndreWoons, and he's with Novota.
If you're interested aboutNovota, you can check them out
in the show notes below.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
(28:40):
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week Tuesdaywith another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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