April 7, 2026 • 51 mins
Stephen Barnes shares what his first year as owner of IJO really looked like, from decision-making and show strategy to staying grounded when gold prices swing. We talk through how independent jewelers can win with stronger vendor partnerships, smarter education, and a practical approach to tech and e-commerce.
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
Inquire about sponsoring In the Loupe and showcase your business on our next episode: podcast@punchmark.com
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I'm joined by StevenBarnes, and he is the president
and owner of IJO.
And you probably already knowwhat IJO is.
They are one of the largestbuying groups in the jewelry
(00:21):
industry.
And I've had the opportunity tointerview the owner and
president Steven Barnes severaltimes now.
And each time we kind of checkin on what the last year has
taught him as well as what hisgoals are.
He's very transparent, and Ithink it's a really awesome
learning opportunity for me andothers to kind of see what you
can still be learning, even whenyou are in this position of
(00:44):
leadership.
And he's uh very transparentabout uh the kind of mindset and
vision for IJL, which has beenaround for a man, over 50 years
at this point, and he has avision for the next 50 years as
well.
And I really enjoy speaking withhim.
We talk about the upcomingSlater shows and how he's
navigating uh gold fluctuatingall the time.
(01:06):
It's a really cool conversation.
I always enjoy speaking withhim, and I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:35):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:57):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Awesome.
Yeah, this is uh one of myfavorite episodes that I've had
the chance to have as arecurring uh guest.
I had you on first when you werewith Edge Retail Academy talking
about uh succession and umretirement planning.
And then I had you on when itwas announced that you were the
uh the president, and then wehad a follow-up episode, and
then we did one when you becameuh the owner, and now we're
(02:56):
gonna be talking about yourfirst year as an owner.
Um, I guess maybe could you justkind of set up for people what
has the past year been like asowner of IJO?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Well, I can say it's a it's a dream come true.
Um, in the fact that, you know,I served as president for a
little over um 18 months.
So I kind of got my feet wet andknowing what was going on um
from the corporate side of IJO.
But um, as many of you know, umI've I've been a member of my
family's jewelry store, has beena member of IJO for almost 27
(03:27):
years now.
So um I won't say there was manysurprises for me.
Um I've I've kind of grown up inthe organization and uh so it
was just a natural progression,the the way I kind of came into
the position.
And uh and as owner, like Isaid, there's really no
surprises.
Um it's just been uh one one onegood thing after another for
sure.
I guess no buyer's remorse,nothing, nothing along those
(03:50):
lines?
Not at all.
If anything, I'm ecstatic.
It's actually way better than Ienvisioned.
Um, you know, I think ourmembership has really done a
great job of embracing thechange um and really um being
very hopeful and excited aboutthe future um and and what we've
got um planned and the visionthat we have for IJA.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Uh, it's really exciting.
And are you able to draw anydistinction between what a what
a president is versus what anowner is?
Obviously, an owner, it's um itsounds like it's purely just
like a like their stock almost,like you own 51% or more at this
point to be a primary owner.
Is that kind of all it comesdown to?
Or is there a difference in likethe actual leadership aspect of
(04:32):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Yeah, from a leadership standpoint, there
wasn't um really much differenceother than um, you know, not
being an owner.
Some of the financial decisionsthat um had to take place had to
go through, of course, theprevious owner.
Um, so it does give me theflexibility to make the final
decisions from a financialstandpoint um that that affects,
you know, our membership andthings like that.
So overall, I wouldn't saythere's a much distinction from
(04:55):
a leadership standpoint, justfrom a financial side of things,
is all.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
And it sounds like IGO is doing quite well.
Uh, we just went to and we punchmark went to um IJO uh Colorado
Springs, and it sounded like itwas very well attended.
They say that that is like themost popular show that you can
do.
It it's because of it's theHotel the Broadmoor or something
like that, and it's incrediblypopular.
(05:20):
And everyone, Jason was like, Ineed to be on that show because
he just loves staying there.
Uh, is that like part of likethe decision-making aspect?
Is like we're gonna pick anawesome place that people want
to go.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, we we, you know, the Broadmoor definitely
knows how to do it right.
Um, when it comes to customerservice, um, you know, it is
probably one of the most uhnicest places I've ever stayed
in my entire life.
You walk, um, everybody greetsyou with a smile, they're
opening doors for you.
Uh, like I said, when it comesto customer service, they
absolutely know how to do it.
Um, and it's it's it really setthe tone for I think our our
(05:53):
retailers and our vendors uhtogether to know that this is
the way it's supposed to bedone, right?
So when you're in a greatenvironment, a beautiful place,
um the weather turned outamazing.
I mean, I think it was like inthe 60s or 70s, maybe even the
80s, a couple of days that wewere there.
Um, it was just a gorgeous placeto be.
And I think everybody was reallyhappy with that.
(06:14):
And happy people turn into happybuyers.
And so I think everyone had areally good show.
Um, it was one of the mostwell-attended shows that we've
had in in recent years.
Um, as far as a percentage ofour membership, almost 70% of
our membership attended theshow.
Um, heard lots of great buzzfrom our our vendor partners who
just said it was their a recordshow for them for uh people
(06:37):
doing business with them.
So once again, when we when wemake everyone happy, then then
then we're successful at it.
So we we feel really good aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Yeah.
And so on the topic of shows,um, maybe I'll go back, Paul,
and I'll try to find the clipfrom uh the first interview when
you were uh announced as aspresident.
But I was asking, what do youthink about a show, an IJO show
in Charlotte, North Carolina?
Beautiful place, Punchmarkheadquarters there.
We can show you a really goodtime and pretty exciting.
(07:05):
You actually you listened to me.
I I love that, Steve.
That's so kind of you.
100% you, Michael.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
I gotta listen to that.
Yeah, no, I gotta admit, youknow, obviously for me being
from North Carolina, I'm veryproud of that.
And uh, and it's something thatI think that Charlotte is a very
special place and uh centrallylocated for a lot of our
travelers.
So it would be very easy for ourjewelers to get to and vendor
partners.
So um we settled on Charlottefor for that reason and the fact
(07:32):
that, like I said, I just wantto show off North Carolina to to
all of our jewelers.
Now, we did come there, I thinkit was in 2008, if I remember
correctly, when we were therelast.
Um, so we're excited to go backthere um um next year for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
That was a big deal back in the day for it was it
was in uh Charlotte, yeah, Ithink right around 2008.
And Punchmark started in Ibelieve 2007.
And what was so funny about thatone is like it was a huge cost
saving moment for um for the youknow, Dan and Ross, the the
co-founders of Punchmark, thatit was there and they didn't
have to pay for flights.
(08:04):
I remember that was like areally big deal because I don't
know if they were prepared tofly somewhere at that point.
So um excited to have everybodyback.
I know that we've alreadystarted discussing how we can,
you know, participate as hostsin some capacity and and try to
show, you know, not just part uhour our clients, but also our
um, you know, just prospects andjust friends and people.
(08:26):
It's a really cool city.
I I lived there for uh justabout you know, just over six
years, and I think it's uh got alot to offer.
So very excited for everybody tobe coming in there.
But now down to the business.
I kind of wanted to ask aboutsome very important topics, and
people love to hear uh yourperspective on things,
especially um as a uh I guesspast owner of a store and now uh
(08:52):
leader of this of this majorjewelry buying group.
I wanted to ask about, I mean,gold.
It's the most popular topicright now.
Briefly breached, I think 5,100,5,200 uh an ounce, which is
insane.
It's now coming back down toearth.
Uh how does that, first of all,make you feel as a uh leader?
And also how is it making yourum members uh impacting their
(09:16):
business?
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Sure.
So, you know, I think that wehave lots of challenges uh um
behind us and ahead of us.
Um not only do we have the thechallenges with the gold, we
have, you know, um tariff uhchallenges that we still are
having to deal with.
Um so all of this causes just, Icall it a disruption within our
marketplace or almost adistraction.
Um, I think a lot of times asretailers, uh, we get hung up on
(09:40):
the numbers and um and and say,oh my gosh, I'll never, you
know, with gold being$5,000 anounce, there's I'm never gonna
sell another gold chain or I'mnever gonna sell a gold wedding
band.
But I think the reality of thatis that our customers really
don't, you know, they they don'thave a sense of that value.
And uh, and yes, you know, thatgold wedding band now is gonna
(10:01):
be$1,500.
Um, but I still feel like thatpeople are getting engaged,
people are still gettingmarried, they're still gonna be
buying these pieces, and we'reseeing that.
Um, so yes, I do feel like ithas affected um on the retail
level for sure, uh to somedegree, but in general, I don't
think it's affected it thatmuch.
Um, and from a vendorstandpoint, whole high gold
(10:21):
prices um may curb some peoplefrom buying um and holding off
or maybe selling through on someof their inventory that they
currently have.
But at the end of the day, um II say as a retailer, you know,
we're here to sell people and tosell them um on the beauty of
jewelry and um and and the thelife how it lasts a lifetime.
Um and there's sometimes noprice you can put on that.
(10:43):
So I I think as I don't want tosay it becomes irrelevant, but
if we're doing our job asretailers and and talking about
the product, talking aboutvalue, um, the value is there
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Quite interesting because it also sort of reminds
me weirdly of the price of gas,uh, where yes, the the price is
just what the price is.
And whether it's you know$5 agallon or it's$2.50 a gallon, I
still need to drive my car.
And whether it's maybe thenumber of times I'm going to
(11:14):
drive it or the frequency or theum number of experiences I will
endeavor on using my car, maybethat'll fluctuate.
But at the same time, it's like,what am I gonna do?
Just uh, you know, sell my carand just not use it.
Unfortunately, that's not anoption for me.
And I do think that's kind ofgold is almost like that fuel of
(11:34):
the jewelry industry.
And same thing with silver.
I I don't ever talk about silverbecause I feel like it goes in
hand in hand, it's not as uh asum rolls off the tongue as well.
But in the same point, I do feellike it's just what what we're
dealing with right now.
And from all the conversationsI've had with retailers, it
hasn't really seemed to curb allof the sales that one might
(11:57):
expect, at least from my view.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Right, absolutely.
And you know, when when whenmost um retail jewelry stores
are made up of some form ofbridal or diamond product, um,
and very actual little gold isin some of those mountings and
things.
So it doesn't really affect theoverall um value of those
pieces, so to speak.
So that's that's a very littleuh there.
But one thing that I've noticed,and and I can't speak for all
(12:21):
jewelry stores, but I can onlyspeak for mine.
We've actually sold more goldwedding bands over the last two
or three years than we didprevious years to that.
So even when gold was$1,500 anounce or$2,000 an ounce, we've
sold more gold wedding bandswhen gold was three, four, and
five thousand dollars an ouncethan we did when it was a
thousand to two thousand dollarsan ounce.
(12:42):
So I don't know the answer tothat is why that happened, but
for some reason, that's just inmy store how it has happened.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
It's a very interesting thing to follow.
Uh I find it interesting becauseuh increasingly my friends
around town, they know I work injewelry and they have started to
see the the gold conversationseep into the the general um
conversation zeitgeist, I guess,where people are starting to
discuss it and people around myage, around the 30s to 40s age,
(13:13):
are starting to decide like whatluxuries will they um put their
money towards, if it's going tobe a stock or if it's going to
be in luxury goods of some sort.
And increasingly I I do findthat the conversation around
gold is shifting towards thismore um weird to say, like a
stable asset as opposed to thethe conversation used to be
(13:36):
around like Bitcoin becausethere was almost like a
guaranteed quote unquoteguaranteed return on investment
where it was going up.
Whereas with gold, uh I actuallytook out most of my money that
was in stocks for a while and Iput it into gold because I don't
understand how the stocks arestill up some days.
And I I I'm not a financialperson, I don't understand
(13:57):
international markets.
And for me, I just know that thegold, at least I can kind of see
how it fluctuates and relates tothe the international markets.
But I guess that's neither herenor there.
Maybe on the same topic ofinternational markets.
How about the impacts of what isgoing on in the Middle East?
Um, the impacts of ship globaland international shipping.
(14:19):
Have you had any discussionsaround that with uh with your
international vendors orretailers?
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Yeah, so we've had a little bit.
Um, of course, uh, you know,IJO, one of our um programs that
we offer is that we travel um toAntwerp, Belgium twice a year.
Um and we are getting ready uhin about three weeks to carry a
group of about 35 jewelers um toAntwerp to of course to buy
diamonds.
Um and there have been someconcerns about the war and and
(14:45):
things like that that are goingon over in the Middle East.
But the the general consensus isthat um, you know, it's business
is normal.
Um and and the the trades arestill happening, um, people are
still getting engaged, twopeople are still buying
diamonds.
So, you know, our our ourjewelers are not um scared to go
over there.
There's no apprehension on theirpart.
Um, and our vendor partners havebeen very gracious and kind of
(15:07):
given us an update, um, whetherthat's every week or whatever,
what's going on over there, andif they feel uncomfortable or
something of that nature.
And and and at this point, no,there's there's been no um
there's been no downturn in inthe in the market that we can
see at this point.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
That's good to know.
I don't know even how to uh diveinto that subject because on the
one hand, you need to speak withsomeone who is being directly
impacted, but at the same time,I sometimes feel like jewelry is
so um uh widely dispersed.
It's not just reliant on onesingular country or one singular
(15:42):
city.
It's so um interconnected atthis point that I haven't been
able to kind of nail down whatthe story would be around that.
And it's just something I I readthe news every day and try to
follow it as best as I can.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, we we've got somegreat partners overseas that we
we deal with.
Um and the the biggest thing iscommunication.
They've been very good aboutcommunicating with us, um, as as
quote unquote boots on theground over there, seeing what's
going on and and letting us knowwhat's going on um over there.
So it's been a great, greatpartnership for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
That's great to hear.
Now, Steven, I I know you whenyou took uh a greater leadership
position, especially when youbecame president, you were
starting to discuss these uminitiatives that you had uh had
kind of taken on as kind of likeyour your core guiding
principles.
And you've now been leading IJOfor I think about three years at
(16:36):
this point, but now with onefull year as um you know as the
owner.
I was wondering if you arestarting to see any any of the
fruits of that labor.
Like what does it look like?
Because I know that you'vetalked about wanting to have a
50-year, 100-year vision forIGO, but it is nice to start to
(16:57):
see some results in the shortterm.
What is that what does thatbalance look like for you right
now?
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Yeah, so one of the biggest things that I think that
um we started with was um reallytrying to dig into our our
relationships with our vendorpartners and our retail
partners.
And what I mean by that is um,you know, we're we're a pretty
large organization, and uh, andfor us to know every single
vendor, every single uh memberof our organization, um, you
(17:26):
know, it's it's tough.
But we've done a really good jobas a team of IJO of really
trying to get to know who ourvendor partners are and who our
retail jewelers are and findingout ways that we can better
their lives.
How can we pour into them andhelp them and make them more
successful?
You know, IJO has a ton ofresources um available to all of
(17:47):
our members, and most of ourmembers don't take advantage of
some of those resources.
Like we have our IJO BusinessCollege where they can come and
get one-on-one help with theirstores.
Um, we've got marketing assets,we've got, of course, our
Antwerp broker program to wherewe can help you, you know, sell
more diamonds in your stores.
Um, we've got amazingeducational programs at our
conferences.
(18:07):
Um, we've got lots of greatthings like that that that most
of our, or I won't say most,that some of our jewelers are
just not taking advantage of.
So we're finding out ways howcan we help them?
How can we introduce them tosome of those um things on a
more personal level to get themmore involved?
And from that, what we're seeingis more engagement from our
membership.
Like I just said, we just hadum, I won't say it's a record
(18:29):
show for us, but we had more ofa percentage of our membership
attend this past show than inprevious years.
So that's that's the evolvementthat we're looking to go to.
Like I said, we don't ever wantto be the largest organization
out there.
We just want to provide ourmembers, our core members, those
who really understand what wetry to do to help them continue
(18:50):
to grow uh and provide thoseresources for them in a very
meaningful way.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
It sounds like attendance is is, of course, uh
a very important aspect of it.
IJO is dispersed across the umacross the US and hearing the
balance of, you know, of course,you're only seeing each other
twice a year, but there's uh alot of other days when you're
not seeing each other.
Being involved in their businessum sounds so core to IJO.
(19:19):
You've also started to discussuh you started your next gen
conference in uh in beautifulFlorida, which I think was a
really good hook.
Um, that's been going on for Ithink two years now.
How has that um kind ofdeveloped and what are you
learning from the the nextgeneration of jewelers?
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Sure.
So we just come off of our thirdyear.
Yeah, third year.
So we we bounced around a littlebit.
The first year we were in umFort Myers, Florida.
Uh the second year we were inSavannah, and this past year in
January, we were in Nashville,Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Oh, wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
It was it was it was a great um the that group is
just so amazing to me.
Um, you know, I think as ayounger jeweler back when I was
in my younger days, I'm notgonna give my age, but back when
I was in my 20s and 30s, um, Iwas I was very desperate.
I wish I would have had a grouplike this younger next gen group
of IJO jewelers um to lean intobecause what I found is this is
(20:14):
this core group of about 30 or40 jewelers, um, they really
lean into each other.
They they are talking aboutchallenges that they're all
going through, whether that'sfamily challenges, whether
that's you know, familychallenges, whether that is um
uh, you know, working for theirparents, working for someone
else, all the different dynamicsthat they're going through, um,
(20:35):
and they can lean in on eachother for for that camaraderie.
Um, but but what the other thingabout that group is so special
is they are really intelligent.
Um, I don't think that some ofthe older generations of
jewelers are giving them fullcredit on what those guys and
girls are able to do.
If they would just, you know,let off the leash a little bit,
(20:56):
give them a little bit offreedom to run their stores, and
mom and dad would step back andlet them implement some of the
ideas that they want to do andsome of the change, it would
make dramatic differences totheir businesses.
So um we're doing everything asan organization of IJO to
continue to pour into that groupbecause they are our next
generation.
Those are the leaders that Iwant to see leading our
(21:17):
organization over the next 10,20, 30 years.
Um, and I'm excited to be ableto continue to pour into them,
mentor them, and and coach themany way that we can.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
Yeah, it's it's a wild thing to start to kind of
witness, at least for myself.
I'm I'm not as young as I as Iremember either.
When I joined Punchmark, I was Iwas 22 and now at 31.
Uh I'm not as young as I was.
But what I do think is uh I'mstarting to kind of pay
attention to is this thingcalled tech fluency.
(21:48):
So tech fluency is uh a level ofof literacy, but like in the
form of almost like a nativespeaker.
So someone who um you knowlearns a language.
At birth, but also someonecompared to someone who learns a
language as a second language oreven more advanced.
And like, what is the differencebetween that?
And I really can't remember aworld before computers.
(22:13):
Uh, I remember learning them.
I remember that when I was likefive or six having a computer
class.
But at this point, I'm I'm justplugged into the internet.
I just there's like a level ofof understanding for some of
this tech.
Like, how do I know that this isa phishing scam and it's nothing
that matters?
(22:34):
And if I explain it to myparents, my parents are actually
quite tech fluent, but at thesame time, it's a second
language to them sometimes.
And I've started to see thatalso with some of our next
generation retailers, that thereis just a level of understanding
and like um second-naturednessto the relationship to tech that
(22:58):
I find um quite inspiring, butalso just like it you can't
ignore it at this point.
The divide, I don't even want tocall it a divide, but like the
um uh the gulf that happenssometimes between people who are
embracing it with open arms andfolks that are rather hesitant
is becoming much more apparent.
And I do think that there is alot of business to be won by
(23:20):
those who are willing to take,yeah, like all these words that
we say, like omnichannelsolution and uh, you know, next
level kind of uh clienteling,those things I really do find um
that there is business to be wonthere.
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Yeah, for sure.
And and once again, I think youyou hit the nail on the head
with the fact that this youngergeneration, they're not scared
to embrace AI and they're notscared to try different things
um with different platforms andthings.
Whereas the older generations,mom, dad, you know, they're
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no.
I'm that they they they put thebrakes on because they just
(23:55):
don't know and they're they'rescared of what that could lead
to.
Whereas that younger generationare not as scared to take some
of those chances and and and dothose things that they know will
propel their business forward.
SPEAKER_01 (24:06):
I'm starting to see what's very heartwarming to me
is when we have our clientworkshop and I get a chance to
actually put eyes on ourclients, and increasingly we're
seeing um a first generation, anolder generation attending with
the next generation, but theyattend at the same time.
And what's very cool is I thinkthat that's the best of both
(24:29):
worlds, where you are seeingthis kind of uh level of
experience and and kind of thereis something to be said about
like the way it's been done, butalso kind of people that are
willing to embrace like these,yeah, emerging tech.
I'm seeing that that combinationseems to be winning and uh
something I hope to kind offollow along as we as we
(24:50):
continue to uh be disrupted byall this technology uh
increasingly.
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
Yeah, and and I think you're exactly right.
Um, as as as an oldergeneration, if I had someone
that that was in their 20s andthey were interested in this
technology or whatever, me I Imay not understand it, but just
sitting and listening to it umor being shown a presentation on
it is gonna give me a betterunderstanding.
And and like I said, I don'thave to know how it works or or
(25:17):
even want to do the work thatgoes behind it.
But just knowing that that'sthere and giving the you know
the blessing or whatever forthat younger generation to move
forward with a project like thatis great.
So I'm assuming that's exactlywhat you're saying with that,
you know, the first generationand the next generation
attending your workshop, atleast that that first generation
is hearing it firsthand and andis able to support that in a in
(25:38):
a positive way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
And what about just to put the question to you,
Steven, is I'm sure it's quiteuh you have to be thinking on
your feet pretty quickly aswell.
Because if you were to say, ifyou were to just stand there and
ignore emerging technology, I Ican't help but think that IGO
would fall behind.
Uh, how has your relationshipstayed dynamic with with this
emerging tech?
(26:00):
Granted, you're not as involvedin the day-to-day of a jewelry
store owner, but you are still abusiness owner.
Um, have you had to kind of havethat conversation with yourself
as well?
And like what you need to stayup with as well as like what you
can let pass by?
SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm just gonna go back two orthree years ago.
You know, AI was just kind ofcoming out.
Um, it's one of those thingswhere I was like, I don't know
if I really need to kind oflearn anything about this.
It's just, you know, I thinkit's gonna be a who knows what
it's gonna do.
But uh it's gonna be a fad.
Yeah, I but I quickly learnedreally over probably the last, I
want to say 12 to 18 months, howimportant AI is is currently and
(26:39):
is gonna be in the future.
So we have embraced it um as anorganization.
Uh, we use AI and differentthings that we do from from you
know financial analytics tohelping us, you know, curate uh,
you know, different umeducational programs, all those
sorts of things.
Um we're using AI to help uswith some of that.
Um but at the same time, there'sother platforms out there.
(27:01):
For instance, um at this uh mostrecent conference, we've just
partnered up with um JewelrySales Academy and we've launched
a uh LMS software that's gonnabe for IJO Jewelers to be able
to have an educational platformwhere IJO can put out content,
where we can put out, you know,seminar sessions.
Um, we're able to hopefully inthe future be able to record
(27:22):
some of our maybe keynotespeakers at our conferences or
some of our um educationalsessions and things at our
conferences to be able to usethat on our platform for when
our jewelers get back to theiroffices and they're like, oh, I
remember sitting through that,but I I couldn't remember
exactly what all it was, or Itook bad notes.
They can re-watch some of thosesessions and be inspired and
learn um back when they're home.
(27:43):
So we're seeing that uh LMS uhsoftware as a really opportunity
for us to help educate andcontinue to grow our education
within our membership.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yeah.
And I guess I just see a ton ofencouraging signs for you know
the relationship andintersection between tech and
jewelry.
Granted, hey, full disclosure,working with Punchmark, we do
websites.
So this does tie into us, butit's finally like I can still
(28:14):
remember the days when peopledid not take jewelry websites um
as seriously.
They were seen as a as like uhan online billboard, and people
wanted them to, they wanted thedomain, they wanted to show
their location and their storehours, uh, they wanted to kind
of show their brand, but theywere not prepared to hand over
the the relationship and salesaspect of things.
(28:37):
And of course, the pandemic hada huge hand in that shift, but
also increasingly, uh, I did awhole episode on this, but uh,
we saw an incredible growth ine-commerce this past year, with
uh it, you know, it was justbarely behind 2021.
And I have, and again, 2021 hada lot of things going for it,
(28:59):
and uh for e-commerce.
And I think that this upcomingyear in 2026, at least the
trends uh currently state we'regonna smash every single record
imaginable when it comes to uhe-commerce performance.
Is that a is the e-commercelandscape something that you
guys have been thinking about atIGL and what that means for a uh
a retail jeweler in in this dayand age?
(29:21):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
I you know, I'm gonna continue to support our
independent jewelers and thefact that they're brick and
mortar stores.
And I think that they're alwaysgonna find value there, that
people are gonna want to come inbecause jewelry is such an
intimate um luxury item.
I think that people are stillgonna want to come in.
They're gonna want to talk tosomebody to talk about what it
(29:44):
is.
They're gonna be looking for theservice that goes behind it as
an independent jeweler.
So as much as I would say, youknow, yes, we see that the
trends are things are shifting alittle bit more to e-commerce.
I still feel like that for uhthe the mom and pops, meaning
the the stores that are, youknow, I'm picking a number here,
the under the two under$2million family-owned mom and pop
(30:06):
jewelry store.
I think that e-commerce is justgoing to be almost uh a second
part of their business.
It's not gonna be their mainfocus.
However, I feel like the largerstores, those stores that are
two, three, five, ten, fifteenmillion dollar operations, I
think they can operate almost ina separate model with e-commerce
because they've got, of course,some resources that they can
dump into providing a more umsmooth uh e-commerce experience.
(30:31):
I think, I think the challengethat everybody gets is we want
all of our websites, if we'regoing to do e-commerce, to be
like Amazon, right?
Well, there's no there's notelling how many billions of
dollars Amazon spends for theirwebsite to be as functional and
easy to use as what Amazon is.
So being able to provide thatsmooth, um, easy transition in
(30:53):
that e-commerce is is achallenge for smaller stores.
But the large stores, Idefinitely I agree with you.
I think there's room for them topotentially grow in that area
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
You know, and again, you know, you know your
retailers best, but one thingthat has been encouraging is
kind of the ability to go from,you know, one sale a month to
two or three sales a month is apretty significant uh win, in my
in my view, at least from whatI've seen uh these smaller
(31:22):
stores being able to do.
And I think that you're you'recorrect.
Uh it will always be for thesesmaller stores a more secondary
um aspect of their business.
I don't think there was a timewhen I did think that your
online your website should beyour cash register.
Like I thought that you shouldbe trying to funnel all of your
sales into your website, eventhe ones in store, because it
(31:45):
had a longer hook.
So, for example, if someone camein, it was not a buy immediately
moment, it should be able to belike, hey, just buy it on our
website and we'll get it to youimmediately, or you can pick it
up in store.
But I will say, the sometimespeople write it off entirely,
and I'm not prepared to let uhlet that happen.
I think that there are so manyum examples of people putting in
(32:09):
just a little bit of work intotheir experiences.
And you know, if I was to say,hey, if you do this, you're
gonna get three free sales,free, quote unquote, sales uh a
a month, man, it'd be it'd betough to kind of turn that uh
turn that down.
So I I think that there is abalance, but I think some some
hard work just goes uh goes along way.
(32:30):
Yeah, for sure.
All right, everybody, we'regonna take a quick break and
hear a word from our sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
(32:53):
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
(33:17):
And we're back.
Now I also want to discuss.
So you come from a retailer atum, you know, kind of
background, but I also wanted tohear about balancing the vendor
to retailer relationship aswell.
Again, we talked about vendorsinitially and how they're
balancing the gold market.
I'm sure retailers have your earquite a bit.
(33:38):
And also I do find that, like,you know, it is a buying group,
so like retailers do need tocome, you know, maybe not first,
but you need to have they haveto have your ear.
How do you balance thatrelationship?
I'm sure that some people wantto have things go more in the
vendor's point of uhperspective.
And I'm sure there's a lot ofretailers that want the
opposite.
Being the middle ground isn'talways fun.
(34:00):
How do you do it?
SPEAKER_02 (34:01):
Yeah, so one of the things, um, even though I am
from a retail background, one ofthe things that I thought um in
the initiatives that I've putforward over the last year or so
is um that we are a memberorganization.
When I mean by memberorganization is we have
retailers and we have vendors,and they're all members of our
organization, and we shouldn'ttreat any of them differently
(34:24):
because they're members of ourorganization.
And at the end of the day, weall need each other.
Our retailers need our vendorpartners, our vendor partners
need our retailers, and IJOneeds both of them to be
successful.
So once we can figure that outand we can say, hey, we're all
in this together.
How do we make this where all ofus benefit?
(34:45):
And so we are trying our best toput programs in place to get our
jewelers to be more dedicated toour vendor partners.
Um, they're buying more fromthem, we're incentivizing them
more to do that.
Um, at the same token, ourvendors are um, we're doing a
really good job of cultivatingour vendors, bringing in vendor
(35:08):
partners that are not competingwith each other because there's
only so much piece of the pie,right?
Um and and if and and if andI'll use diamond, you know,
vendors as an example.
You know, if we've got 20diamond vendors, bringing in two
or three more diamond vendors isnot gonna really do anything but
divide up that diamond vendorpool of buying power.
So we're doing a really umconscious effort of only trying
(35:31):
to bring in new vendors that arenon-competing um and that are
gonna provide a differentproduct mix for our jewelers,
which in turn is gonna help themin their business in the long
run, too.
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
It is uh an interesting thing because you do
want to balance, yeah, likehaving new blood in there to
oxygenate things.
But also it's like, yeah,there's only you can only stock
your shells with so much, somuch jewelry.
And what I've heard from therelationships that uh from the
conversations I've had on hereand also in person, is that the
(36:06):
time of just like taking randomshots with a with a a vendor
because they have a good salespitch at a show, just taking a
random, you know, let's try thisout.
It doesn't seem like it's as umpertinent anymore.
It seems like people are kind ofscaling down the number of
vendors that they do businesswith, but are going more deeper
(36:28):
and more like uh they want theywant these vendors that care
about their success.
And that's the conversation I'vehad with Craig McBean with Ospie
is how uh they have a buybackguarantee with their with their
product, which I think is justif you were giving me a business
101, I'd be like, I don't knowif that makes a ton of sense.
But his strategy behind it islike if it's not selling for
(36:51):
you, then we are not being agood partner.
So we want to make you whole andwe want to have the opportunity
to to keep you going becauseit's it's not enough for us to
just sell to you.
We need you to be successful tocultivate a longer-term
relationship.
Are you seeing that as apositive trend for retailers
(37:11):
where it's maybe fewerrelationships, but deeper ones?
Uh, I I know it's like a shiftsince the the older days.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, and Craig is a perfectexample at Ospie.
Um, they they definitely do itright, they understand that it
is a partnership.
And I'm gonna go a little deeperhere.
You know, as retailers, um, youknow, I think that we try the
old school thought is you go toa show or a jewelry salesman
comes to your store and you buya product because it's pretty,
(37:40):
you like it, and you think youcan sell it.
Okay.
Well, that's great, but then youare trying to spread that over
20, 30, 40, maybe a hundredvendors, right, that you're
buying from.
So you're not really importantto any of those vendors.
Okay.
So you've got X amount ofdollars that you spend per year
on jewelry and that you sell.
And if that's divided by ahundred vendors, then it's very,
(38:02):
very small.
If you were to, if that was, youknow, half that number, or let's
just say it was 20 vendors, thenyou're much more important to
those vendors.
Those vendors then see you as atrue partner because they are,
they, they, you're buying moreproduct from them.
They want to help you besuccessful.
Maybe you've got product thatdoesn't work in your store,
they're willing to swap it outfor a different product that
(38:23):
does sell.
That's what a true partnershiplooks like.
Um, and I think that the theshift over the last, I don't
know, five, 10, 15 years hasbeen exactly that.
I think that vendors get it,that retailers get it, that it's
a true partnership, um, that weare in this together, and and
how can we make both of ourbusinesses better from both a
retail and a vendor standpointfor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
It's really, again, quite interesting to think about
because I've had a lot of,especially in the past um year
after I've started to take overthe vendor program at Punchmark,
uh no vendors really want toadmit that.
Uh, you know, they don't reallyseem to want to say like the
retailers that buy a lot from usare more important to us.
(39:06):
Um, that probably does seem tobe that does make sense because,
you know, if this one is buying,you know, a hundred and this
person is buying one, thenobviously the hundred does make
more sense.
Is that something that you'vekind of seen in like real time
as like a you know, again, pastowner and now a uh kind of a
leader of this organization,kind of seeing that that the
(39:29):
business end of relationshipsdoes kind of make sense like
that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
Yeah, it I I I'll say this from from day one that
it's a hundred percent about therelationship.
Um, you build thoserelationships with those vendor
partners and uh and and youbecome successful together.
And uh, and once again, justtrying to spread the wealth too
thin um doesn't do good foranybody.
Um and it's a lot you knowharder to manage.
(39:54):
I mean, when I was in theconsulting world and got to see
some real world data, it wouldsurprise you that that the
average jeweler probably havebetween 75 and 100 vendors that
they work with.
Um and so that's a lot ofrelationships to try to manage.
Um, and and at the same time, Ithink it's a disservice to try
(40:14):
to spread it so the end.
And so yeah, I'm I'm definitelya proponent of you know being
more meaningful, creatingwonderful partnerships that
where you both grow together isis very important for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Yeah, I keep I want to put together like this like
the advice for retailers that Ihave heard so many times that
now I give that advice.
And it's like reorder your fastsellers, uh, get rid of your
your age inventory.
Like I feel like those ones,I've just heard them so many
times.
And it's yeah, and double intoyour um double down on your on
(40:49):
your your best vendors and youryour best relationships because
man, I had no idea it was thatsprinkled, if that's like a a
real like um example.
SPEAKER_02 (40:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
The idea of of of having yeah, like 75
relationships to maintain asopposed to like 20.
SPEAKER_02 (41:05):
Yeah, and I don't have the I don't have the
statistic in front of me, butseveral years ago when I did a
lot of analytics like this, it'ssomething crazy like um 80 or 85
percent of a jewelry store'sbusiness is done with less than
20 vendors, meaning that thatthat the majority or 80% of the
business that the of themerchandise you sell in your
(41:27):
store is really from 20 vendors.
The other 20% or so is done bythe other 50, 70, or 100 vendors
that you might be dealing with.
So once again, it's a matter oflet's how can we make it more be
more important to this groupover here that we're already
doing business with?
SPEAKER_01 (41:42):
Oh man, what a really that's a great
conversation unto itself that Iwould love to explore more.
Maybe I'll uh with the upcomingclient workshop, which you'll be
uh in attendance in beautifulCharlotte, North Carolina, uh,
that's kind of something maybeI'll start asking around about
because uh I I'm very interestedin like the the business aspect
of of those relationships andand how to balance them because
(42:04):
I know that some of the salesreps, man, I really like them,
but I can only imagine if you goin, you see that this one line
just does all of your business.
I can only imagine what it'slike.
You have to really kind of payattention to that more.
So very cool.
Um now, Steven, just to kind ofend this on a on a more you know
introspective kind of uhthought, I was curious as to
(42:28):
I've I've just been talking toRoss and I have him on uh once a
quarter, once a half, uh todiscuss business leadership and
also what it's like um you knowgrowing a company.
And I guess I kind of wanted topose this question to you is
what is it like now at the top,you know, owner, to be leading?
(42:50):
And who do you go to with yourquestions?
And like, how do you actuallycontinue the mindset of learning
if you're at the top?
I've put this question to toRoss before, and he sometimes is
like, you know, it is luckily hehas a co-founder and and two
partners, and he finds that hecan kind of they keep him in
check.
(43:10):
Um, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
So I have a phenomenal executive team at IJO
um made up of Karen Beardsworth,um our financial CFO, um
Jennifer Um Harold, who is ourvice president, and Sam uh
Larson, who is our um directorof vendor services and
partnerships.
And the the four of us meet umregularly, almost once a week,
(43:35):
to talk about you know differentthings that are going on within
our company.
Um but on top of that, we havean incredible board of directors
for IJO.
It's made up of 10 retailjewelers amongst the IJO
membership and um four of ourvendor partners.
Um and as a matter of fact, wejust had a uh a monthly Zoom
(43:55):
meeting um yesterday.
Um every month we we meet onZoom for about an hour.
Where we talk about IJO, we talkabout the challenges we have or
ideas that we've got.
We run it by them.
So I'm getting a very good mixof information from them.
So we also have in-personmeetings at our conferences.
So those are just some of thethings from an industry
(44:15):
standpoint that kind of keep mein check and who I bounce ideas
off of.
But probably the most importantgroup to me, I am part of a
round table, a monthly roundtable in my hometown of other
businesses.
And that the organization iscalled C12.
It's made up of uh 12 otherbusiness owners.
(44:38):
Um once a month, um, one day weuh allocate a full day.
Um we get together, we talkabout um, we have uh curriculum
materials that we learn aboutour businesses, how to make our
businesses more successful.
One of our um one of us gets topresent um over about a two-hour
period of time our business.
We we get really raw and downand dirty.
(45:00):
We present financials, we showeverything about our business.
So it's basically like a um athink tank of of 12 quote
unquote other business like mindbusiness men that we get around
and women, we get around, wetalk about our businesses, and
they they kind of give youblind, help you see your blind
spots, maybe poke some holes andsome ideas that that you have.
Um, and and this group is a veryeclectic group.
(45:23):
So um, you know, I'm actuallyone of quote unquote smaller um
type of uh businesses in there.
We've got uh two or threebusinesses that are doing um
close to a billion dollars inrevenue a year.
So these are not in the jewelryindustry, by the way.
These are all differentindustries.
Um, but it's it's it's amazingthat no matter if you're a
billion-dollar company or amillion-dollar company, um, we
(45:46):
have a lot of the samechallenges, um, whether that's
you know, internal personnel,um, marketing issues, um, HR
issues.
It doesn't matter.
We're we're all sometimes in thesame boat.
And it's so great to be able toplug into those guys' mind and
understand some some of whatthey're thinking and how to make
our businesses better.
So for me, that's my biggestsounding board is to be able to
(46:07):
pull from other industries umand how they do things and how I
can apply that to my business,to IJO and make it better every
single day.
SPEAKER_01 (46:15):
Wow.
What a cool thing.
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
Uh and is that in person or is that on Zoom?
That's an in-person meeting,like I said, once a month for an
it's a full, full day,eight-hour session that we we
just spend with each other andreally pour into each other.
And like I said, I've been apart of the organ that
organization for a little over15 years, and and it's truly
helped me in my trajectory of ofwhere I've been from, you know,
(46:38):
just owning my own store throughall the things that I've done to
leading up to where I am rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Wow, that is really super cool to hear.
Uh yeah, actually, Craig ummentioned that he's in a peer
group, and I think his, it'slike I I can only imagine what
it must be like going in.
It's just like you think you'relike the the big shot, and then
it's like someone comes in, theythey're running a completely
different business and they're,you know, equally or whatever
(47:03):
successful.
And hearing the the that kind ofhonest conversation is something
that I um, you know, kind ofhave an appetite for, and I
would love to hear uh moreabout.
Maybe I'll look into seeing ifthere's anything around around
my area for that kind of thing,because I find that it would be
very I think it would fill myfill my cup in a different way,
(47:27):
which I would I think I wouldappreciate.
That's very cool.
SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
Yeah, it's and then and once again, I would
encourage anyone out there, ifyou're looking for um for ways
to grow your your personal selfor your business, um, get into
it, get into some type ofnetwork mentoring group.
Um, and and once again, um I sayit's a it's a true mentoring
group for me because um, youknow, I've got 11 other brothers
(47:50):
and sisters that every monthwe're we're truly passionate
about helping each other besuccessful or be more
successful.
And uh, and we know that we havea lot of people that are
counting on us.
You know, I have you know, um somany retailers and so many
vendors that are part of ourorganization that are that are
relying on, you know, me and andIJO to stay strong and to give
(48:10):
them the resources they need.
Um, not only that, you know,I've got employees that I have
to, you know, yeah keep themmake sure that they're they're
getting what they need.
So it's it's a big undertaking,but it's also very rewarding at
the top for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (48:23):
That is really uh quite encouraging to hear,
actually, because uh sometimes Ifeel like there's like a lot of
discussion around, oh, it's it'slonely at the top and it's not
fun at the top, and it's likeyou miss the days of just being
an individual contributor.
But to hear that you have thatsupport group that makes it a
little bit more manageable andhelps you keep that learner's
(48:44):
mindset, um, even you know,leading something with with
hundreds of of retailersinvolved, uh, that's very
encouraging to hear and and andmakes me kind of understand your
story a little bit more.
That's great to hear, Steven.
Um, I think maybe we'll kind ofwrap it up right there.
If people were interested inlearning a little bit more about
IJO uh and potentially being amember, where would they go?
(49:07):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
So you can go to our website, ijo.com, um, play
around there.
We've got some lots of uh greatinformation there.
Um you can personally reach outto um our director of um
membership, Penny Palmer, andher email is pennypen at
ijo.com.
Um and once again, we're uh weare an organization always
(49:29):
looking for new, fresh members.
Um we are territory protected,so you know we do have some
criteria that would need to bemet.
But please, if you're interestedin IJO, reach out, uh, reach out
to Penny.
We'll give you all theinformation and see if uh you're
a candidate for membership.
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Yeah.
And if you do reach out, maybelet them know that in the loop
sent you.
Makes us look good.
Uh, Steven, I think we'll leaveit right there.
I really appreciate your timeand I hope to have you back in
in another year and we can uhdiscuss what year two has been
like and uh what you've learnedfrom there.
But in the meantime, good luckwith IJL.
I'll be rooting for you guysevery time.
SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
So thank you so much, Michael, for having me.
And I look forward to seeing youin a few weeks at the uh
Bunchmart Workshop.
SPEAKER_01 (50:07):
I appreciate that.
Yeah, it'll be really fun.
Thanks everybody for listening.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was StevenBarnes.
He's the president and owner ofIJL.
(50:30):
This episode is brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burbo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek, Tuesday, with another
episode.
(50:50):
Cheers.
Bye!
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week I'm joined by StevenBarnes, and he is the president
and owner of IJO.
And you probably already knowwhat IJO is.
They are one of the largestbuying groups in the jewelry
(00:21):
industry.
And I've had the opportunity tointerview the owner and
president Steven Barnes severaltimes now.
And each time we kind of checkin on what the last year has
taught him as well as what hisgoals are.
He's very transparent, and Ithink it's a really awesome
learning opportunity for me andothers to kind of see what you
can still be learning, even whenyou are in this position of
(00:44):
leadership.
And he's uh very transparentabout uh the kind of mindset and
vision for IJL, which has beenaround for a man, over 50 years
at this point, and he has avision for the next 50 years as
well.
And I really enjoy speaking withhim.
We talk about the upcomingSlater shows and how he's
navigating uh gold fluctuatingall the time.
(01:06):
It's a really cool conversation.
I always enjoy speaking withhim, and I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:35):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:57):
together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Awesome.
Yeah, this is uh one of myfavorite episodes that I've had
the chance to have as arecurring uh guest.
I had you on first when you werewith Edge Retail Academy talking
about uh succession and umretirement planning.
And then I had you on when itwas announced that you were the
uh the president, and then wehad a follow-up episode, and
then we did one when you becameuh the owner, and now we're
(02:56):
gonna be talking about yourfirst year as an owner.
Um, I guess maybe could you justkind of set up for people what
has the past year been like asowner of IJO?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Well, I can say it's a it's a dream come true.
Um, in the fact that, you know,I served as president for a
little over um 18 months.
So I kind of got my feet wet andknowing what was going on um
from the corporate side of IJO.
But um, as many of you know, umI've I've been a member of my
family's jewelry store, has beena member of IJO for almost 27
(03:27):
years now.
So um I won't say there was manysurprises for me.
Um I've I've kind of grown up inthe organization and uh so it
was just a natural progression,the the way I kind of came into
the position.
And uh and as owner, like Isaid, there's really no
surprises.
Um it's just been uh one one onegood thing after another for
sure.
I guess no buyer's remorse,nothing, nothing along those
(03:50):
lines?
Not at all.
If anything, I'm ecstatic.
It's actually way better than Ienvisioned.
Um, you know, I think ourmembership has really done a
great job of embracing thechange um and really um being
very hopeful and excited aboutthe future um and and what we've
got um planned and the visionthat we have for IJA.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Uh, it's really exciting.
And are you able to draw anydistinction between what a what
a president is versus what anowner is?
Obviously, an owner, it's um itsounds like it's purely just
like a like their stock almost,like you own 51% or more at this
point to be a primary owner.
Is that kind of all it comesdown to?
Or is there a difference in likethe actual leadership aspect of
(04:32):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Yeah, from a leadership standpoint, there
wasn't um really much differenceother than um, you know, not
being an owner.
Some of the financial decisionsthat um had to take place had to
go through, of course, theprevious owner.
Um, so it does give me theflexibility to make the final
decisions from a financialstandpoint um that that affects,
you know, our membership andthings like that.
So overall, I wouldn't saythere's a much distinction from
(04:55):
a leadership standpoint, justfrom a financial side of things,
is all.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
And it sounds like IGO is doing quite well.
Uh, we just went to and we punchmark went to um IJO uh Colorado
Springs, and it sounded like itwas very well attended.
They say that that is like themost popular show that you can
do.
It it's because of it's theHotel the Broadmoor or something
like that, and it's incrediblypopular.
(05:20):
And everyone, Jason was like, Ineed to be on that show because
he just loves staying there.
Uh, is that like part of likethe decision-making aspect?
Is like we're gonna pick anawesome place that people want
to go.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Yeah, we we, you know, the Broadmoor definitely
knows how to do it right.
Um, when it comes to customerservice, um, you know, it is
probably one of the most uhnicest places I've ever stayed
in my entire life.
You walk, um, everybody greetsyou with a smile, they're
opening doors for you.
Uh, like I said, when it comesto customer service, they
absolutely know how to do it.
Um, and it's it's it really setthe tone for I think our our
(05:53):
retailers and our vendors uhtogether to know that this is
the way it's supposed to bedone, right?
So when you're in a greatenvironment, a beautiful place,
um the weather turned outamazing.
I mean, I think it was like inthe 60s or 70s, maybe even the
80s, a couple of days that wewere there.
Um, it was just a gorgeous placeto be.
And I think everybody was reallyhappy with that.
(06:14):
And happy people turn into happybuyers.
And so I think everyone had areally good show.
Um, it was one of the mostwell-attended shows that we've
had in in recent years.
Um, as far as a percentage ofour membership, almost 70% of
our membership attended theshow.
Um, heard lots of great buzzfrom our our vendor partners who
just said it was their a recordshow for them for uh people
(06:37):
doing business with them.
So once again, when we when wemake everyone happy, then then
then we're successful at it.
So we we feel really good aboutthat.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Yeah.
And so on the topic of shows,um, maybe I'll go back, Paul,
and I'll try to find the clipfrom uh the first interview when
you were uh announced as aspresident.
But I was asking, what do youthink about a show, an IJO show
in Charlotte, North Carolina?
Beautiful place, Punchmarkheadquarters there.
We can show you a really goodtime and pretty exciting.
(07:05):
You actually you listened to me.
I I love that, Steve.
That's so kind of you.
100% you, Michael.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
I gotta listen to that.
Yeah, no, I gotta admit, youknow, obviously for me being
from North Carolina, I'm veryproud of that.
And uh, and it's something thatI think that Charlotte is a very
special place and uh centrallylocated for a lot of our
travelers.
So it would be very easy for ourjewelers to get to and vendor
partners.
So um we settled on Charlottefor for that reason and the fact
(07:32):
that, like I said, I just wantto show off North Carolina to to
all of our jewelers.
Now, we did come there, I thinkit was in 2008, if I remember
correctly, when we were therelast.
Um, so we're excited to go backthere um um next year for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
That was a big deal back in the day for it was it
was in uh Charlotte, yeah, Ithink right around 2008.
And Punchmark started in Ibelieve 2007.
And what was so funny about thatone is like it was a huge cost
saving moment for um for the youknow, Dan and Ross, the the
co-founders of Punchmark, thatit was there and they didn't
have to pay for flights.
(08:04):
I remember that was like areally big deal because I don't
know if they were prepared tofly somewhere at that point.
So um excited to have everybodyback.
I know that we've alreadystarted discussing how we can,
you know, participate as hostsin some capacity and and try to
show, you know, not just part uhour our clients, but also our
um, you know, just prospects andjust friends and people.
(08:26):
It's a really cool city.
I I lived there for uh justabout you know, just over six
years, and I think it's uh got alot to offer.
So very excited for everybody tobe coming in there.
But now down to the business.
I kind of wanted to ask aboutsome very important topics, and
people love to hear uh yourperspective on things,
especially um as a uh I guesspast owner of a store and now uh
(08:52):
leader of this of this majorjewelry buying group.
I wanted to ask about, I mean,gold.
It's the most popular topicright now.
Briefly breached, I think 5,100,5,200 uh an ounce, which is
insane.
It's now coming back down toearth.
Uh how does that, first of all,make you feel as a uh leader?
And also how is it making yourum members uh impacting their
(09:16):
business?
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Sure.
So, you know, I think that wehave lots of challenges uh um
behind us and ahead of us.
Um not only do we have the thechallenges with the gold, we
have, you know, um tariff uhchallenges that we still are
having to deal with.
Um so all of this causes just, Icall it a disruption within our
marketplace or almost adistraction.
Um, I think a lot of times asretailers, uh, we get hung up on
(09:40):
the numbers and um and and say,oh my gosh, I'll never, you
know, with gold being$5,000 anounce, there's I'm never gonna
sell another gold chain or I'mnever gonna sell a gold wedding
band.
But I think the reality of thatis that our customers really
don't, you know, they they don'thave a sense of that value.
And uh, and yes, you know, thatgold wedding band now is gonna
(10:01):
be$1,500.
Um, but I still feel like thatpeople are getting engaged,
people are still gettingmarried, they're still gonna be
buying these pieces, and we'reseeing that.
Um, so yes, I do feel like ithas affected um on the retail
level for sure, uh to somedegree, but in general, I don't
think it's affected it thatmuch.
Um, and from a vendorstandpoint, whole high gold
(10:21):
prices um may curb some peoplefrom buying um and holding off
or maybe selling through on someof their inventory that they
currently have.
But at the end of the day, um II say as a retailer, you know,
we're here to sell people and tosell them um on the beauty of
jewelry and um and and the thelife how it lasts a lifetime.
Um and there's sometimes noprice you can put on that.
(10:43):
So I I think as I don't want tosay it becomes irrelevant, but
if we're doing our job asretailers and and talking about
the product, talking aboutvalue, um, the value is there
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
Quite interesting because it also sort of reminds
me weirdly of the price of gas,uh, where yes, the the price is
just what the price is.
And whether it's you know$5 agallon or it's$2.50 a gallon, I
still need to drive my car.
And whether it's maybe thenumber of times I'm going to
(11:14):
drive it or the frequency or theum number of experiences I will
endeavor on using my car, maybethat'll fluctuate.
But at the same time, it's like,what am I gonna do?
Just uh, you know, sell my carand just not use it.
Unfortunately, that's not anoption for me.
And I do think that's kind ofgold is almost like that fuel of
(11:34):
the jewelry industry.
And same thing with silver.
I I don't ever talk about silverbecause I feel like it goes in
hand in hand, it's not as uh asum rolls off the tongue as well.
But in the same point, I do feellike it's just what what we're
dealing with right now.
And from all the conversationsI've had with retailers, it
hasn't really seemed to curb allof the sales that one might
(11:57):
expect, at least from my view.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Right, absolutely.
And you know, when when whenmost um retail jewelry stores
are made up of some form ofbridal or diamond product, um,
and very actual little gold isin some of those mountings and
things.
So it doesn't really affect theoverall um value of those
pieces, so to speak.
So that's that's a very littleuh there.
But one thing that I've noticed,and and I can't speak for all
(12:21):
jewelry stores, but I can onlyspeak for mine.
We've actually sold more goldwedding bands over the last two
or three years than we didprevious years to that.
So even when gold was$1,500 anounce or$2,000 an ounce, we've
sold more gold wedding bandswhen gold was three, four, and
five thousand dollars an ouncethan we did when it was a
thousand to two thousand dollarsan ounce.
(12:42):
So I don't know the answer tothat is why that happened, but
for some reason, that's just inmy store how it has happened.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
It's a very interesting thing to follow.
Uh I find it interesting becauseuh increasingly my friends
around town, they know I work injewelry and they have started to
see the the gold conversationseep into the the general um
conversation zeitgeist, I guess,where people are starting to
discuss it and people around myage, around the 30s to 40s age,
(13:13):
are starting to decide like whatluxuries will they um put their
money towards, if it's going tobe a stock or if it's going to
be in luxury goods of some sort.
And increasingly I I do findthat the conversation around
gold is shifting towards thismore um weird to say, like a
stable asset as opposed to thethe conversation used to be
(13:36):
around like Bitcoin becausethere was almost like a
guaranteed quote unquoteguaranteed return on investment
where it was going up.
Whereas with gold, uh I actuallytook out most of my money that
was in stocks for a while and Iput it into gold because I don't
understand how the stocks arestill up some days.
And I I I'm not a financialperson, I don't understand
(13:57):
international markets.
And for me, I just know that thegold, at least I can kind of see
how it fluctuates and relates tothe the international markets.
But I guess that's neither herenor there.
Maybe on the same topic ofinternational markets.
How about the impacts of what isgoing on in the Middle East?
Um, the impacts of ship globaland international shipping.
(14:19):
Have you had any discussionsaround that with uh with your
international vendors orretailers?
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Yeah, so we've had a little bit.
Um, of course, uh, you know,IJO, one of our um programs that
we offer is that we travel um toAntwerp, Belgium twice a year.
Um and we are getting ready uhin about three weeks to carry a
group of about 35 jewelers um toAntwerp to of course to buy
diamonds.
Um and there have been someconcerns about the war and and
(14:45):
things like that that are goingon over in the Middle East.
But the the general consensus isthat um, you know, it's business
is normal.
Um and and the the trades arestill happening, um, people are
still getting engaged, twopeople are still buying
diamonds.
So, you know, our our ourjewelers are not um scared to go
over there.
There's no apprehension on theirpart.
Um, and our vendor partners havebeen very gracious and kind of
(15:07):
given us an update, um, whetherthat's every week or whatever,
what's going on over there, andif they feel uncomfortable or
something of that nature.
And and and at this point, no,there's there's been no um
there's been no downturn in inthe in the market that we can
see at this point.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
That's good to know.
I don't know even how to uh diveinto that subject because on the
one hand, you need to speak withsomeone who is being directly
impacted, but at the same time,I sometimes feel like jewelry is
so um uh widely dispersed.
It's not just reliant on onesingular country or one singular
(15:42):
city.
It's so um interconnected atthis point that I haven't been
able to kind of nail down whatthe story would be around that.
And it's just something I I readthe news every day and try to
follow it as best as I can.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, we we've got somegreat partners overseas that we
we deal with.
Um and the the biggest thing iscommunication.
They've been very good aboutcommunicating with us, um, as as
quote unquote boots on theground over there, seeing what's
going on and and letting us knowwhat's going on um over there.
So it's been a great, greatpartnership for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:13):
That's great to hear.
Now, Steven, I I know you whenyou took uh a greater leadership
position, especially when youbecame president, you were
starting to discuss these uminitiatives that you had uh had
kind of taken on as kind of likeyour your core guiding
principles.
And you've now been leading IJOfor I think about three years at
(16:36):
this point, but now with onefull year as um you know as the
owner.
I was wondering if you arestarting to see any any of the
fruits of that labor.
Like what does it look like?
Because I know that you'vetalked about wanting to have a
50-year, 100-year vision forIGO, but it is nice to start to
(16:57):
see some results in the shortterm.
What is that what does thatbalance look like for you right
now?
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Yeah, so one of the biggest things that I think that
um we started with was um reallytrying to dig into our our
relationships with our vendorpartners and our retail
partners.
And what I mean by that is um,you know, we're we're a pretty
large organization, and uh, andfor us to know every single
vendor, every single uh memberof our organization, um, you
(17:26):
know, it's it's tough.
But we've done a really good jobas a team of IJO of really
trying to get to know who ourvendor partners are and who our
retail jewelers are and findingout ways that we can better
their lives.
How can we pour into them andhelp them and make them more
successful?
You know, IJO has a ton ofresources um available to all of
(17:47):
our members, and most of ourmembers don't take advantage of
some of those resources.
Like we have our IJO BusinessCollege where they can come and
get one-on-one help with theirstores.
Um, we've got marketing assets,we've got, of course, our
Antwerp broker program to wherewe can help you, you know, sell
more diamonds in your stores.
Um, we've got amazingeducational programs at our
conferences.
(18:07):
Um, we've got lots of greatthings like that that that most
of our, or I won't say most,that some of our jewelers are
just not taking advantage of.
So we're finding out ways howcan we help them?
How can we introduce them tosome of those um things on a
more personal level to get themmore involved?
And from that, what we're seeingis more engagement from our
membership.
Like I just said, we just hadum, I won't say it's a record
(18:29):
show for us, but we had more ofa percentage of our membership
attend this past show than inprevious years.
So that's that's the evolvementthat we're looking to go to.
Like I said, we don't ever wantto be the largest organization
out there.
We just want to provide ourmembers, our core members, those
who really understand what wetry to do to help them continue
(18:50):
to grow uh and provide thoseresources for them in a very
meaningful way.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
It sounds like attendance is is, of course, uh
a very important aspect of it.
IJO is dispersed across the umacross the US and hearing the
balance of, you know, of course,you're only seeing each other
twice a year, but there's uh alot of other days when you're
not seeing each other.
Being involved in their businessum sounds so core to IJO.
(19:19):
You've also started to discussuh you started your next gen
conference in uh in beautifulFlorida, which I think was a
really good hook.
Um, that's been going on for Ithink two years now.
How has that um kind ofdeveloped and what are you
learning from the the nextgeneration of jewelers?
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Sure.
So we just come off of our thirdyear.
Yeah, third year.
So we we bounced around a littlebit.
The first year we were in umFort Myers, Florida.
Uh the second year we were inSavannah, and this past year in
January, we were in Nashville,Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Oh, wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
It was it was it was a great um the that group is
just so amazing to me.
Um, you know, I think as ayounger jeweler back when I was
in my younger days, I'm notgonna give my age, but back when
I was in my 20s and 30s, um, Iwas I was very desperate.
I wish I would have had a grouplike this younger next gen group
of IJO jewelers um to lean intobecause what I found is this is
(20:14):
this core group of about 30 or40 jewelers, um, they really
lean into each other.
They they are talking aboutchallenges that they're all
going through, whether that'sfamily challenges, whether
that's you know, familychallenges, whether that is um
uh, you know, working for theirparents, working for someone
else, all the different dynamicsthat they're going through, um,
(20:35):
and they can lean in on eachother for for that camaraderie.
Um, but but what the other thingabout that group is so special
is they are really intelligent.
Um, I don't think that some ofthe older generations of
jewelers are giving them fullcredit on what those guys and
girls are able to do.
If they would just, you know,let off the leash a little bit,
(20:56):
give them a little bit offreedom to run their stores, and
mom and dad would step back andlet them implement some of the
ideas that they want to do andsome of the change, it would
make dramatic differences totheir businesses.
So um we're doing everything asan organization of IJO to
continue to pour into that groupbecause they are our next
generation.
Those are the leaders that Iwant to see leading our
(21:17):
organization over the next 10,20, 30 years.
Um, and I'm excited to be ableto continue to pour into them,
mentor them, and and coach themany way that we can.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
Yeah, it's it's a wild thing to start to kind of
witness, at least for myself.
I'm I'm not as young as I as Iremember either.
When I joined Punchmark, I was Iwas 22 and now at 31.
Uh I'm not as young as I was.
But what I do think is uh I'mstarting to kind of pay
attention to is this thingcalled tech fluency.
(21:48):
So tech fluency is uh a level ofof literacy, but like in the
form of almost like a nativespeaker.
So someone who um you knowlearns a language.
At birth, but also someonecompared to someone who learns a
language as a second language oreven more advanced.
And like, what is the differencebetween that?
And I really can't remember aworld before computers.
(22:13):
Uh, I remember learning them.
I remember that when I was likefive or six having a computer
class.
But at this point, I'm I'm justplugged into the internet.
I just there's like a level ofof understanding for some of
this tech.
Like, how do I know that this isa phishing scam and it's nothing
that matters?
(22:34):
And if I explain it to myparents, my parents are actually
quite tech fluent, but at thesame time, it's a second
language to them sometimes.
And I've started to see thatalso with some of our next
generation retailers, that thereis just a level of understanding
and like um second-naturednessto the relationship to tech that
(22:58):
I find um quite inspiring, butalso just like it you can't
ignore it at this point.
The divide, I don't even want tocall it a divide, but like the
um uh the gulf that happenssometimes between people who are
embracing it with open arms andfolks that are rather hesitant
is becoming much more apparent.
And I do think that there is alot of business to be won by
(23:20):
those who are willing to take,yeah, like all these words that
we say, like omnichannelsolution and uh, you know, next
level kind of uh clienteling,those things I really do find um
that there is business to be wonthere.
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Yeah, for sure.
And and once again, I think youyou hit the nail on the head
with the fact that this youngergeneration, they're not scared
to embrace AI and they're notscared to try different things
um with different platforms andthings.
Whereas the older generations,mom, dad, you know, they're
like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no.
I'm that they they they put thebrakes on because they just
(23:55):
don't know and they're they'rescared of what that could lead
to.
Whereas that younger generationare not as scared to take some
of those chances and and and dothose things that they know will
propel their business forward.
SPEAKER_01 (24:06):
I'm starting to see what's very heartwarming to me
is when we have our clientworkshop and I get a chance to
actually put eyes on ourclients, and increasingly we're
seeing um a first generation, anolder generation attending with
the next generation, but theyattend at the same time.
And what's very cool is I thinkthat that's the best of both
(24:29):
worlds, where you are seeingthis kind of uh level of
experience and and kind of thereis something to be said about
like the way it's been done, butalso kind of people that are
willing to embrace like these,yeah, emerging tech.
I'm seeing that that combinationseems to be winning and uh
something I hope to kind offollow along as we as we
(24:50):
continue to uh be disrupted byall this technology uh
increasingly.
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
Yeah, and and I think you're exactly right.
Um, as as as an oldergeneration, if I had someone
that that was in their 20s andthey were interested in this
technology or whatever, me I Imay not understand it, but just
sitting and listening to it umor being shown a presentation on
it is gonna give me a betterunderstanding.
And and like I said, I don'thave to know how it works or or
(25:17):
even want to do the work thatgoes behind it.
But just knowing that that'sthere and giving the you know
the blessing or whatever forthat younger generation to move
forward with a project like thatis great.
So I'm assuming that's exactlywhat you're saying with that,
you know, the first generationand the next generation
attending your workshop, atleast that that first generation
is hearing it firsthand and andis able to support that in a in
(25:38):
a positive way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
And what about just to put the question to you,
Steven, is I'm sure it's quiteuh you have to be thinking on
your feet pretty quickly aswell.
Because if you were to say, ifyou were to just stand there and
ignore emerging technology, I Ican't help but think that IGO
would fall behind.
Uh, how has your relationshipstayed dynamic with with this
emerging tech?
(26:00):
Granted, you're not as involvedin the day-to-day of a jewelry
store owner, but you are still abusiness owner.
Um, have you had to kind of havethat conversation with yourself
as well?
And like what you need to stayup with as well as like what you
can let pass by?
SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm just gonna go back two orthree years ago.
You know, AI was just kind ofcoming out.
Um, it's one of those thingswhere I was like, I don't know
if I really need to kind oflearn anything about this.
It's just, you know, I thinkit's gonna be a who knows what
it's gonna do.
But uh it's gonna be a fad.
Yeah, I but I quickly learnedreally over probably the last, I
want to say 12 to 18 months, howimportant AI is is currently and
(26:39):
is gonna be in the future.
So we have embraced it um as anorganization.
Uh, we use AI and differentthings that we do from from you
know financial analytics tohelping us, you know, curate uh,
you know, different umeducational programs, all those
sorts of things.
Um we're using AI to help uswith some of that.
Um but at the same time, there'sother platforms out there.
(27:01):
For instance, um at this uh mostrecent conference, we've just
partnered up with um JewelrySales Academy and we've launched
a uh LMS software that's gonnabe for IJO Jewelers to be able
to have an educational platformwhere IJO can put out content,
where we can put out, you know,seminar sessions.
Um, we're able to hopefully inthe future be able to record
(27:22):
some of our maybe keynotespeakers at our conferences or
some of our um educationalsessions and things at our
conferences to be able to usethat on our platform for when
our jewelers get back to theiroffices and they're like, oh, I
remember sitting through that,but I I couldn't remember
exactly what all it was, or Itook bad notes.
They can re-watch some of thosesessions and be inspired and
learn um back when they're home.
(27:43):
So we're seeing that uh LMS uhsoftware as a really opportunity
for us to help educate andcontinue to grow our education
within our membership.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yeah.
And I guess I just see a ton ofencouraging signs for you know
the relationship andintersection between tech and
jewelry.
Granted, hey, full disclosure,working with Punchmark, we do
websites.
So this does tie into us, butit's finally like I can still
(28:14):
remember the days when peopledid not take jewelry websites um
as seriously.
They were seen as a as like uhan online billboard, and people
wanted them to, they wanted thedomain, they wanted to show
their location and their storehours, uh, they wanted to kind
of show their brand, but theywere not prepared to hand over
the the relationship and salesaspect of things.
(28:37):
And of course, the pandemic hada huge hand in that shift, but
also increasingly, uh, I did awhole episode on this, but uh,
we saw an incredible growth ine-commerce this past year, with
uh it, you know, it was justbarely behind 2021.
And I have, and again, 2021 hada lot of things going for it,
(28:59):
and uh for e-commerce.
And I think that this upcomingyear in 2026, at least the
trends uh currently state we'regonna smash every single record
imaginable when it comes to uhe-commerce performance.
Is that a is the e-commercelandscape something that you
guys have been thinking about atIGL and what that means for a uh
a retail jeweler in in this dayand age?
(29:21):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
I you know, I'm gonna continue to support our
independent jewelers and thefact that they're brick and
mortar stores.
And I think that they're alwaysgonna find value there, that
people are gonna want to come inbecause jewelry is such an
intimate um luxury item.
I think that people are stillgonna want to come in.
They're gonna want to talk tosomebody to talk about what it
(29:44):
is.
They're gonna be looking for theservice that goes behind it as
an independent jeweler.
So as much as I would say, youknow, yes, we see that the
trends are things are shifting alittle bit more to e-commerce.
I still feel like that for uhthe the mom and pops, meaning
the the stores that are, youknow, I'm picking a number here,
the under the two under$2million family-owned mom and pop
(30:06):
jewelry store.
I think that e-commerce is justgoing to be almost uh a second
part of their business.
It's not gonna be their mainfocus.
However, I feel like the largerstores, those stores that are
two, three, five, ten, fifteenmillion dollar operations, I
think they can operate almost ina separate model with e-commerce
because they've got, of course,some resources that they can
dump into providing a more umsmooth uh e-commerce experience.
(30:31):
I think, I think the challengethat everybody gets is we want
all of our websites, if we'regoing to do e-commerce, to be
like Amazon, right?
Well, there's no there's notelling how many billions of
dollars Amazon spends for theirwebsite to be as functional and
easy to use as what Amazon is.
So being able to provide thatsmooth, um, easy transition in
(30:53):
that e-commerce is is achallenge for smaller stores.
But the large stores, Idefinitely I agree with you.
I think there's room for them topotentially grow in that area
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
You know, and again, you know, you know your
retailers best, but one thingthat has been encouraging is
kind of the ability to go from,you know, one sale a month to
two or three sales a month is apretty significant uh win, in my
in my view, at least from whatI've seen uh these smaller
(31:22):
stores being able to do.
And I think that you're you'recorrect.
Uh it will always be for thesesmaller stores a more secondary
um aspect of their business.
I don't think there was a timewhen I did think that your
online your website should beyour cash register.
Like I thought that you shouldbe trying to funnel all of your
sales into your website, eventhe ones in store, because it
(31:45):
had a longer hook.
So, for example, if someone camein, it was not a buy immediately
moment, it should be able to belike, hey, just buy it on our
website and we'll get it to youimmediately, or you can pick it
up in store.
But I will say, the sometimespeople write it off entirely,
and I'm not prepared to let uhlet that happen.
I think that there are so manyum examples of people putting in
(32:09):
just a little bit of work intotheir experiences.
And you know, if I was to say,hey, if you do this, you're
gonna get three free sales,free, quote unquote, sales uh a
a month, man, it'd be it'd betough to kind of turn that uh
turn that down.
So I I think that there is abalance, but I think some some
hard work just goes uh goes along way.
(32:30):
Yeah, for sure.
All right, everybody, we'regonna take a quick break and
hear a word from our sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
(32:53):
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
(33:17):
And we're back.
Now I also want to discuss.
So you come from a retailer atum, you know, kind of
background, but I also wanted tohear about balancing the vendor
to retailer relationship aswell.
Again, we talked about vendorsinitially and how they're
balancing the gold market.
I'm sure retailers have your earquite a bit.
(33:38):
And also I do find that, like,you know, it is a buying group,
so like retailers do need tocome, you know, maybe not first,
but you need to have they haveto have your ear.
How do you balance thatrelationship?
I'm sure that some people wantto have things go more in the
vendor's point of uhperspective.
And I'm sure there's a lot ofretailers that want the
opposite.
Being the middle ground isn'talways fun.
(34:00):
How do you do it?
SPEAKER_02 (34:01):
Yeah, so one of the things, um, even though I am
from a retail background, one ofthe things that I thought um in
the initiatives that I've putforward over the last year or so
is um that we are a memberorganization.
When I mean by memberorganization is we have
retailers and we have vendors,and they're all members of our
organization, and we shouldn'ttreat any of them differently
(34:24):
because they're members of ourorganization.
And at the end of the day, weall need each other.
Our retailers need our vendorpartners, our vendor partners
need our retailers, and IJOneeds both of them to be
successful.
So once we can figure that outand we can say, hey, we're all
in this together.
How do we make this where all ofus benefit?
(34:45):
And so we are trying our best toput programs in place to get our
jewelers to be more dedicated toour vendor partners.
Um, they're buying more fromthem, we're incentivizing them
more to do that.
Um, at the same token, ourvendors are um, we're doing a
really good job of cultivatingour vendors, bringing in vendor
(35:08):
partners that are not competingwith each other because there's
only so much piece of the pie,right?
Um and and if and and if andI'll use diamond, you know,
vendors as an example.
You know, if we've got 20diamond vendors, bringing in two
or three more diamond vendors isnot gonna really do anything but
divide up that diamond vendorpool of buying power.
So we're doing a really umconscious effort of only trying
(35:31):
to bring in new vendors that arenon-competing um and that are
gonna provide a differentproduct mix for our jewelers,
which in turn is gonna help themin their business in the long
run, too.
SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
It is uh an interesting thing because you do
want to balance, yeah, likehaving new blood in there to
oxygenate things.
But also it's like, yeah,there's only you can only stock
your shells with so much, somuch jewelry.
And what I've heard from therelationships that uh from the
conversations I've had on hereand also in person, is that the
(36:06):
time of just like taking randomshots with a with a a vendor
because they have a good salespitch at a show, just taking a
random, you know, let's try thisout.
It doesn't seem like it's as umpertinent anymore.
It seems like people are kind ofscaling down the number of
vendors that they do businesswith, but are going more deeper
(36:28):
and more like uh they want theywant these vendors that care
about their success.
And that's the conversation I'vehad with Craig McBean with Ospie
is how uh they have a buybackguarantee with their with their
product, which I think is justif you were giving me a business
101, I'd be like, I don't knowif that makes a ton of sense.
But his strategy behind it islike if it's not selling for
(36:51):
you, then we are not being agood partner.
So we want to make you whole andwe want to have the opportunity
to to keep you going becauseit's it's not enough for us to
just sell to you.
We need you to be successful tocultivate a longer-term
relationship.
Are you seeing that as apositive trend for retailers
(37:11):
where it's maybe fewerrelationships, but deeper ones?
Uh, I I know it's like a shiftsince the the older days.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, and Craig is a perfectexample at Ospie.
Um, they they definitely do itright, they understand that it
is a partnership.
And I'm gonna go a little deeperhere.
You know, as retailers, um, youknow, I think that we try the
old school thought is you go toa show or a jewelry salesman
comes to your store and you buya product because it's pretty,
(37:40):
you like it, and you think youcan sell it.
Okay.
Well, that's great, but then youare trying to spread that over
20, 30, 40, maybe a hundredvendors, right, that you're
buying from.
So you're not really importantto any of those vendors.
Okay.
So you've got X amount ofdollars that you spend per year
on jewelry and that you sell.
And if that's divided by ahundred vendors, then it's very,
(38:02):
very small.
If you were to, if that was, youknow, half that number, or let's
just say it was 20 vendors, thenyou're much more important to
those vendors.
Those vendors then see you as atrue partner because they are,
they, they, you're buying moreproduct from them.
They want to help you besuccessful.
Maybe you've got product thatdoesn't work in your store,
they're willing to swap it outfor a different product that
(38:23):
does sell.
That's what a true partnershiplooks like.
Um, and I think that the theshift over the last, I don't
know, five, 10, 15 years hasbeen exactly that.
I think that vendors get it,that retailers get it, that it's
a true partnership, um, that weare in this together, and and
how can we make both of ourbusinesses better from both a
retail and a vendor standpointfor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
It's really, again, quite interesting to think about
because I've had a lot of,especially in the past um year
after I've started to take overthe vendor program at Punchmark,
uh no vendors really want toadmit that.
Uh, you know, they don't reallyseem to want to say like the
retailers that buy a lot from usare more important to us.
(39:06):
Um, that probably does seem tobe that does make sense because,
you know, if this one is buying,you know, a hundred and this
person is buying one, thenobviously the hundred does make
more sense.
Is that something that you'vekind of seen in like real time
as like a you know, again, pastowner and now a uh kind of a
leader of this organization,kind of seeing that that the
(39:29):
business end of relationshipsdoes kind of make sense like
that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
Yeah, it I I I'll say this from from day one that
it's a hundred percent about therelationship.
Um, you build thoserelationships with those vendor
partners and uh and and youbecome successful together.
And uh, and once again, justtrying to spread the wealth too
thin um doesn't do good foranybody.
Um and it's a lot you knowharder to manage.
(39:54):
I mean, when I was in theconsulting world and got to see
some real world data, it wouldsurprise you that that the
average jeweler probably havebetween 75 and 100 vendors that
they work with.
Um and so that's a lot ofrelationships to try to manage.
Um, and and at the same time, Ithink it's a disservice to try
(40:14):
to spread it so the end.
And so yeah, I'm I'm definitelya proponent of you know being
more meaningful, creatingwonderful partnerships that
where you both grow together isis very important for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Yeah, I keep I want to put together like this like
the advice for retailers that Ihave heard so many times that
now I give that advice.
And it's like reorder your fastsellers, uh, get rid of your
your age inventory.
Like I feel like those ones,I've just heard them so many
times.
And it's yeah, and double intoyour um double down on your on
(40:49):
your your best vendors and youryour best relationships because
man, I had no idea it was thatsprinkled, if that's like a a
real like um example.
SPEAKER_02 (40:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
The idea of of of having yeah, like 75
relationships to maintain asopposed to like 20.
SPEAKER_02 (41:05):
Yeah, and I don't have the I don't have the
statistic in front of me, butseveral years ago when I did a
lot of analytics like this, it'ssomething crazy like um 80 or 85
percent of a jewelry store'sbusiness is done with less than
20 vendors, meaning that thatthat the majority or 80% of the
business that the of themerchandise you sell in your
(41:27):
store is really from 20 vendors.
The other 20% or so is done bythe other 50, 70, or 100 vendors
that you might be dealing with.
So once again, it's a matter oflet's how can we make it more be
more important to this groupover here that we're already
doing business with?
SPEAKER_01 (41:42):
Oh man, what a really that's a great
conversation unto itself that Iwould love to explore more.
Maybe I'll uh with the upcomingclient workshop, which you'll be
uh in attendance in beautifulCharlotte, North Carolina, uh,
that's kind of something maybeI'll start asking around about
because uh I I'm very interestedin like the the business aspect
of of those relationships andand how to balance them because
(42:04):
I know that some of the salesreps, man, I really like them,
but I can only imagine if you goin, you see that this one line
just does all of your business.
I can only imagine what it'slike.
You have to really kind of payattention to that more.
So very cool.
Um now, Steven, just to kind ofend this on a on a more you know
introspective kind of uhthought, I was curious as to
(42:28):
I've I've just been talking toRoss and I have him on uh once a
quarter, once a half, uh todiscuss business leadership and
also what it's like um you knowgrowing a company.
And I guess I kind of wanted topose this question to you is
what is it like now at the top,you know, owner, to be leading?
(42:50):
And who do you go to with yourquestions?
And like, how do you actuallycontinue the mindset of learning
if you're at the top?
I've put this question to toRoss before, and he sometimes is
like, you know, it is luckily hehas a co-founder and and two
partners, and he finds that hecan kind of they keep him in
check.
(43:10):
Um, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:13):
So I have a phenomenal executive team at IJO
um made up of Karen Beardsworth,um our financial CFO, um
Jennifer Um Harold, who is ourvice president, and Sam uh
Larson, who is our um directorof vendor services and
partnerships.
And the the four of us meet umregularly, almost once a week,
(43:35):
to talk about you know differentthings that are going on within
our company.
Um but on top of that, we havean incredible board of directors
for IJO.
It's made up of 10 retailjewelers amongst the IJO
membership and um four of ourvendor partners.
Um and as a matter of fact, wejust had a uh a monthly Zoom
(43:55):
meeting um yesterday.
Um every month we we meet onZoom for about an hour.
Where we talk about IJO, we talkabout the challenges we have or
ideas that we've got.
We run it by them.
So I'm getting a very good mixof information from them.
So we also have in-personmeetings at our conferences.
So those are just some of thethings from an industry
(44:15):
standpoint that kind of keep mein check and who I bounce ideas
off of.
But probably the most importantgroup to me, I am part of a
round table, a monthly roundtable in my hometown of other
businesses.
And that the organization iscalled C12.
It's made up of uh 12 otherbusiness owners.
(44:38):
Um once a month, um, one day weuh allocate a full day.
Um we get together, we talkabout um, we have uh curriculum
materials that we learn aboutour businesses, how to make our
businesses more successful.
One of our um one of us gets topresent um over about a two-hour
period of time our business.
We we get really raw and downand dirty.
(45:00):
We present financials, we showeverything about our business.
So it's basically like a um athink tank of of 12 quote
unquote other business like mindbusiness men that we get around
and women, we get around, wetalk about our businesses, and
they they kind of give youblind, help you see your blind
spots, maybe poke some holes andsome ideas that that you have.
Um, and and this group is a veryeclectic group.
(45:23):
So um, you know, I'm actuallyone of quote unquote smaller um
type of uh businesses in there.
We've got uh two or threebusinesses that are doing um
close to a billion dollars inrevenue a year.
So these are not in the jewelryindustry, by the way.
These are all differentindustries.
Um, but it's it's it's amazingthat no matter if you're a
billion-dollar company or amillion-dollar company, um, we
(45:46):
have a lot of the samechallenges, um, whether that's
you know, internal personnel,um, marketing issues, um, HR
issues.
It doesn't matter.
We're we're all sometimes in thesame boat.
And it's so great to be able toplug into those guys' mind and
understand some some of whatthey're thinking and how to make
our businesses better.
So for me, that's my biggestsounding board is to be able to
(46:07):
pull from other industries umand how they do things and how I
can apply that to my business,to IJO and make it better every
single day.
SPEAKER_01 (46:15):
Wow.
What a cool thing.
SPEAKER_02 (46:18):
Uh and is that in person or is that on Zoom?
That's an in-person meeting,like I said, once a month for an
it's a full, full day,eight-hour session that we we
just spend with each other andreally pour into each other.
And like I said, I've been apart of the organ that
organization for a little over15 years, and and it's truly
helped me in my trajectory of ofwhere I've been from, you know,
(46:38):
just owning my own store throughall the things that I've done to
leading up to where I am rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (46:43):
Wow, that is really super cool to hear.
Uh yeah, actually, Craig ummentioned that he's in a peer
group, and I think his, it'slike I I can only imagine what
it must be like going in.
It's just like you think you'relike the the big shot, and then
it's like someone comes in, theythey're running a completely
different business and they're,you know, equally or whatever
(47:03):
successful.
And hearing the the that kind ofhonest conversation is something
that I um, you know, kind ofhave an appetite for, and I
would love to hear uh moreabout.
Maybe I'll look into seeing ifthere's anything around around
my area for that kind of thing,because I find that it would be
very I think it would fill myfill my cup in a different way,
(47:27):
which I would I think I wouldappreciate.
That's very cool.
SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
Yeah, it's and then and once again, I would
encourage anyone out there, ifyou're looking for um for ways
to grow your your personal selfor your business, um, get into
it, get into some type ofnetwork mentoring group.
Um, and and once again, um I sayit's a it's a true mentoring
group for me because um, youknow, I've got 11 other brothers
(47:50):
and sisters that every monthwe're we're truly passionate
about helping each other besuccessful or be more
successful.
And uh, and we know that we havea lot of people that are
counting on us.
You know, I have you know, um somany retailers and so many
vendors that are part of ourorganization that are that are
relying on, you know, me and andIJO to stay strong and to give
(48:10):
them the resources they need.
Um, not only that, you know,I've got employees that I have
to, you know, yeah keep themmake sure that they're they're
getting what they need.
So it's it's a big undertaking,but it's also very rewarding at
the top for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (48:23):
That is really uh quite encouraging to hear,
actually, because uh sometimes Ifeel like there's like a lot of
discussion around, oh, it's it'slonely at the top and it's not
fun at the top, and it's likeyou miss the days of just being
an individual contributor.
But to hear that you have thatsupport group that makes it a
little bit more manageable andhelps you keep that learner's
(48:44):
mindset, um, even you know,leading something with with
hundreds of of retailersinvolved, uh, that's very
encouraging to hear and and andmakes me kind of understand your
story a little bit more.
That's great to hear, Steven.
Um, I think maybe we'll kind ofwrap it up right there.
If people were interested inlearning a little bit more about
IJO uh and potentially being amember, where would they go?
(49:07):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
So you can go to our website, ijo.com, um, play
around there.
We've got some lots of uh greatinformation there.
Um you can personally reach outto um our director of um
membership, Penny Palmer, andher email is pennypen at
ijo.com.
Um and once again, we're uh weare an organization always
(49:29):
looking for new, fresh members.
Um we are territory protected,so you know we do have some
criteria that would need to bemet.
But please, if you're interestedin IJO, reach out, uh, reach out
to Penny.
We'll give you all theinformation and see if uh you're
a candidate for membership.
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Yeah.
And if you do reach out, maybelet them know that in the loop
sent you.
Makes us look good.
Uh, Steven, I think we'll leaveit right there.
I really appreciate your timeand I hope to have you back in
in another year and we can uhdiscuss what year two has been
like and uh what you've learnedfrom there.
But in the meantime, good luckwith IJL.
I'll be rooting for you guysevery time.
SPEAKER_02 (50:02):
So thank you so much, Michael, for having me.
And I look forward to seeing youin a few weeks at the uh
Bunchmart Workshop.
SPEAKER_01 (50:07):
I appreciate that.
Yeah, it'll be really fun.
Thanks everybody for listening.
We'll be back next week,Tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
All right, everybody.
That's the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was StevenBarnes.
He's the president and owner ofIJL.
(50:30):
This episode is brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burbo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts,
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks, and we'll be back nextweek, Tuesday, with another
episode.
(50:50):
Cheers.
Bye!
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of NFL Media hosts including Jourdan Rodrigue, Colleen Wolfe, and Nick Shook provide all the NFL news, previews, recaps and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.