April 21, 2026 • 29 mins
We break down retargeting as clienteling at scale and explain why it feels like ads “follow you” after you browse jewelry online.
Hope Bellair shares practical ways to segment audiences, choose platforms, set budgets, and measure success beyond last-click sales.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week we're talking aboutretargeting.
Uh retargeting is the sort ofcreepy aspect of ads that sort
of seem to follow you aroundafter you uh visit a website and
(00:21):
uh get a chance to you knowre-advertise to you uh because
you've shown a level of interestor intent in shopping.
I wanted to speak with Hope totalk about the state of play,
some best practices, and alsohow you could maybe be doing
retargeting uh in Q2 and Q3.
Uh she's gonna be giving apresentation about this The
Client Workshop, which should begoing on as this episode
(00:42):
releases.
And I wanted to kind of get herthoughts on it ahead of time.
It's a really cool conversation.
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:15):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:37):
together your digital andphysical world in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
What is up, everybody?
I am joined by Hope Bel Air,digital marketing manager at
Punchmark.
How are you doing today, Hope?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
I'm doing so well.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
So well getting excited for the client workshop,
which this is going to airactually during the client
workshop.
So that's very exciting.
One of the topics you're goingto be discussing at the workshop
is going to be aboutretargeting.
I feel like uh retargeting hasbeen discussed in the past, but
it changes all the time.
Could you give me like anoverview, high-level view of uh
(02:27):
what retargeting actually is?
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
Sure.
So I'd like to say thatretargeting is a form of
clientelling, honestly.
So there's a lot of differentbuckets that retargeting can go
into, whether it's a client thatyou've had for let's say 10
years and hasn't been in thestore for quite a bit, or a new
client that hasn't necessarilybeen into your store but has
visited your website a coupledifferent times and viewed a
(02:52):
couple different products.
Um basically it is justnurturing those relationships,
whether they're online or instore.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Yeah.
Sometimes I always think aboutit as like like gardening.
It's like some plants growreally quickly and some grow
really slow, and some of themneed a lot more nurturing before
you can have any uh before theybear any fruit.
And the cool thing is that thesecan be highly automated.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
For sure.
Yeah.
With the tracking and everythingthat we have on the back end of
our punchmark websites, as wellas Google Analytics and stuff
like that, we can definitelywork with clients and stuff like
that to get a good retargetingaudience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
So when you set up retargeting, are you setting it
up on like a per platform basis?
Or is there a way for you tobuild one retargeting uh series
and then have it displayeverywhere?
Or do you have to build one forGoogle, one for Facebook, one
for, I don't know, Reddit?
Do you have to do all of thoseindividually?
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Yeah.
So what obviously withmarketing, we always try to have
a very holistic viewpoint,especially with email, Meta,
Google, et cetera.
But specifically between Metaand Google, those are the two
powerhouses, right?
Retargeting on Google looks alot different than retargeting
on Meta.
(04:14):
Mainly because Meta is again astrong visual platform.
We're focused on visitors thathave already seen the website
and know, you know, your brand.
And let's say that they werelooking at a pair of diamond
studs on your website.
What we would retarget them thenfor is diamond studs or diamond
(04:36):
jewelry as a whole.
It's great for lifestyleimagery, social proof, of
course, if you have a strongsocial media presence
organically and a lot of brandrecall.
So Instagram, Facebook, etcetera, is a little bit more of
the proactive um platform, in myopinion, and in a lot of
people's opinions, honestly.
(04:58):
But um, you know, you're we'recreating those touch points
where let's say a new clientsees you, it takes about five to
nine touch points for them tofinally visit your site when
they see an ad.
So when they visit the site,then they get into a different
funnel, basically.
Um they visit the website andthey're like, oh, okay, well,
(05:19):
that ad worked for them to comeand see, you know, the website
as a whole, and here's wherethey went on their journey.
Based on where they went ontheir journey, they're now put
in to a different type offunnel, that mid-funnel tier, to
really get out there and say,Hey, we know you just saw this,
we're gonna keep targeting youwith these lifestyle images and
(05:41):
these videos because this iswhat attracted you to our
website.
Now, in Google, it's a lotdifferent because Google is a
little bit more reactive andthat it is a search-based query
that comes through, and thenfrom there we retarget.
So that would be kind of goingfrom a search intent to more of
(06:02):
a quote unquote what we like tocall performance max campaign,
which highlights display, Gmailmarketing, um, Google Maps, and
stuff like that.
So let's say they searcheddiamond jewelry near me, and
they searched and your search adcame up based on that.
Once they click on that ad, weknow they went to the website.
(06:25):
Same kind of thing happens.
However, now it's going to bemore subtle in a way.
It's just gonna pop up on theside of their Gmail or at the
top of their Google Maps whereit's like, hey, we know you just
went to this website.
Here's the direction to thatstore if you're close.
Um, and then it's just basicallyfor intent-based follow-up in
(06:49):
that case.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So are these ads independent of the device that
they're on?
So for example, if I'm logged inand I'm I'm viewing some stuff
on my laptop and then I use myphone, do I have the same, I
guess, profile that is havingthese ads applied to it?
Like if I'm progressing and I'mseeing more and more ads, are
(07:10):
they progressing whether I'm onphone or I'm on uh like a
MacBook or something?
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Yeah.
So for the most part, actually,this is a perfect example
because I was doing someresearch, I guess, for Gabriel
and Co.
not too long ago on um my laptophere, my work laptop,
copitpunchmark.com.
And even still, since Iresearched it and looked at
(07:37):
their website on you know, mywork computer on my personal
Instagram, I was then floodedwith Gabriel and Co.
ads um on my Instagramspecifically.
So um, nope, I don't think itdoes matter.
Definitely the technology that'saround us all the time
communicates with each other inways that I'm sure we don't even
(07:58):
begin to understand.
Um, but yeah, nope.
As if you're searching on yourlaptop, let's say diamond
jewelry, then on your phone,it's gonna pick it up.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
And what about is this also uh are the ads
progressing?
You know what I mean?
Like progressing as in likehaving those touch points myself
as a shopper.
If I'm on Google and I searchdiamond rings and I click on
yours, and then I go back and Isee a display ad for diamond
rings, and then there's two ofthem, and I click on one that is
(08:30):
not yours.
Is that also showing intent toGoogle where it's um like are
they all being pooled across allthe different ads that I've
seen, as in like not just yours,or does it have to be your
funnel that it only applies to?
Does that make sense?
Uh like I'm trying to see iflike sometimes I get ads from
(08:50):
multiple different uh places.
If I'm, you know, for example,looking at sometimes I look at
jackets and I see an ad from umHuckberry, Huckberry, but then
sometimes I click on Philson andthen Philsen and then I go back
to Huckberry.
Is that also applying to it?
Like, is it building a strongercase for me to be uh a highly um
(09:11):
uh customer with high intent?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
So yes, and that is separate.
So with our, like let's say ourretailers, right?
We're retargeting those based onyou know, XYZ jeweler in
Charlotte, let's say.
If all of a sudden XYZ jeweler,we've been retargeting them, you
(09:33):
know, it's on the fifth touchpoint of that second funnel that
I mentioned, all of a suddenthey're gonna go ahead and click
on ABC Jeweler instead of XYZ.
That is only giving Instagramand Google your intent.
So basically the algorithms andboth saying, hey, this person is
definitely a high-intent buyerfor you know a diamond jewelry,
(09:58):
but that does not go into thelike data points for us and our
retargeting.
So for example, if XYZ jeweler,you know, we're still
retargeting to this guy thatlooked at our website.
If he clicks on ABC jeweler, wedon't necessarily know that.
And that's okay because a lot ofyou know, jewelry in it in
(10:20):
itself isn't a whim purchase forthe most part.
They're gonna do their research,they're gonna compare, but with
every click that they go on Metaand Google, it is serving that
algorithm to know that, hey,okay, we've served we've served
them this ad from ABC and XYZJeweler.
(10:41):
He's definitely, you know, goingto make a purchase here soon.
Obviously, Instagram and Googledoesn't necessarily know where
they're gonna go, but theretargeting ads from both will
be served to him all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
It's really quite interesting because I noticed um
I noticed that they they chaseme around too.
I always joke like that itthinks I'm the most uh eligible
bachelor of all time because I'mconstantly looking at engagement
rings on many differentwebsites.
But I guess I'm I'm confusedsometimes about when an ad
(11:15):
decides to show up.
Uh, you know what I mean?
It's like I do have ad blockerson a lot of my devices and a lot
of websites.
And sometimes an ad uh shows upand I'm always confused about
it.
Are you basing these off ofpersonas like I or I guess um
audience like demographics?
(11:36):
Like, how are you building whoshould even initially see it?
Or is it just, you know, hey, ifthey visited our website in the
last, you know, 30 days, we'regoing to show them um them ads.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yeah.
So for an initial campaignacross the board, Google Meta,
all the same, we are creatingpersonas that are, okay, you
know, this person is in arelationship.
You know, maybe they've been ina relationship for two months,
four years.
We don't really know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Crazy, crazy that they can even discern that.
I sidebar, but keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
So in a relationship, engaged, we can
see, if they're married, we cansee, if they have kids, um, we
can use all of those lifestylefactors as well as specifically
with um meta, we can go in.
There's a whole subset forGabriel and co-engagement rings.
So, like if they have um ademographic that say they really
(12:37):
like Gabriel and Co-engagementrings, cool.
We want to show them some oftheir some of our custom
engagement rings.
That's something that we can goahead and pick on Meta to just
say, hey, I know you like this,but hey, look at this.
And this is similar to Gabrieland Co, and you'd be, you know,
supporting an independentjeweler instead.
That is for the initialcampaign.
(12:58):
For the secondary campaign, theretargeting campaign that we're
talking about, that is solelycoming from lists.
So that is someone that has beento the website in the last 30 to
180 days.
That is someone that is a clientof yours that maybe hasn't shown
up in two years that we want toretarget and you provide us that
list.
Um, that's someone that went tothe diamond jewelry category on
(13:21):
the website and now is onlygoing to be served diamond
pendants.
Same thing with engagementrings, custom, appointment-based
stuff.
Um, it can really dive down intospecific segments when we're
retargeting so that we're onlygrabbing that niche audience
from every, you know, angle,basically.
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Now, what about things that are not, well, I
guess it is because I use aGmail.
I was gonna say that are notrelated to it, that are not like
browsing based.
Um, one thing I notice is I'm onseveral of our clients' uh
newsletters.
And a lot of the times I gettheir newsletters for events and
campaigns because you know, Ihave a testing account on their
(14:03):
website, or I have done a testum uh transaction or something
along the lines over the years.
And I've probably done this on20 um of our clients' websites,
and now I, you know, I get themoccasionally.
Is email opening is that relatedto retargeting?
Is like, do emails and what Iguess Meta and Google know about
(14:28):
me?
Are those at all connected orare they independent?
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
So it's a little bit more independent.
So whether you're using likeemail marketing specifically, we
can get an engaged audience.
So basically, if they've clickedon the email to open it, if
they've gone to the website fromthere, that is an engaged
audience.
What we can do from you knowyour email platform, whether
(14:53):
that be Clavio, MailChimp, etc.,we can download that audience
and upload that to Meta orGoogle or use a third-party
connector like Zapier to connectthe two to where we're like,
hey, actually, this Mother's Dayemail that we sent out, um, we
(15:14):
had let's say 50 people click onit.
I want those 50 people to seethis Mother's Day ad now.
Um, so yeah, it can definitelygo across platforms.
It just requires a couple moreconnections and integrations um
from either your marketingperson or a third-party
platform.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
And then one of the last ones I was thinking of is
uh abandoned cart ads are very,I think the strongest, in my
opinion, because it's like, hey,you're so close to buying.
What do you think about acoupon?
Have you ever added something toyour cart?
Being like, I'm not gonna buythis, I'm gonna see if I can get
a coupon out of this.
And then you like add it to yourcart and then you leave and just
(15:53):
like see if they'll send yousomething.
Because I've done that severaltimes and it it used to work a
lot better.
I'm gonna say, probably 10 yearsago.
I feel like people were a lotmore aggressive about uh sending
coupons uh for a band of carts.
Are abandoned cart email,because Punchmarks uh site
manager has an entire automationthat's just built off of
(16:14):
abandoned carts, and I think itjust automatically works for
everybody.
Is that something that also tiesinto these campaigns, or is that
just totally isolated andseparate?
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
So when we notice that someoneis abandoned cart, obviously our
platform sends out an automatedemail.
But if you also have a flow setup in another email platform, we
can use again that persona andthat profile that we know
abandoned the cart and create anad to be like, hey, actually,
(16:45):
remember this specific product?
Yeah, it's like a dynamic ad.
Like, don't don't miss out.
Keep keep browsing type ofthing.
Um, I get that all the time aswell with my algorithms.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
All right, everybody, we're gonna take a
quick break and hear a word fromour sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
(17:20):
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now, back to the show.
(17:42):
And we're back.
So I guess uh and also are thesecampaigns are these like uh
retargeting, is this somethingthat everybody should be doing
all the time as just like a bestpractice, or is it best geared
towards like like an event or Iguess or towards like slow
times?
Because like around here, onething I've been kind of thinking
(18:04):
about increasingly is a lot ofthe times Mike Town shuts down
for like all of April.
And I sometimes wonder if it'sshould you be trying to drive
traffic in the slow part of theyear, or should you be like kind
of building this infrastructureand then driving traffic, being
like, hey, it's been a while,and then like trying to catch
(18:25):
the traffic as they come back.
So I've always wondered like, isthere uh do you try to have
people like set up these kindsof things around sales?
Or is it just like, hey, comevisit us, that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
So it can be both.
Honestly, retargeting is good tojust kind of have as a slow burn
all year.
Again, it's just kind of thattop of mind awareness.
It's not necessarily going tocost you big bucks to do so, but
um just having that top of mindretargeting awareness going all
(18:58):
year round is is fabulous,right?
But specifically um Q3 goinginto Q4, definitely ramping it
up and saying, hey, Christmas isright around the corner.
Um let's do it this especiallyDecember, same thing.
Um, and then if you know,obviously jewelers collect a lot
(19:20):
of personal information, like ananniversary date or a birthday,
something like that, those aregood um segments to have for
retargeting purposes becauselet's say, right, you had a
couple come in, they bought anengagement ring from you two
years ago, and they got marriedonly six months ago, right?
(19:43):
In the six months, obviously,they're going to go ahead and
have their first anniversary.
So two months to a month out,saying just set sending them
subtle messages.
Again, it's almost likesubconscious.
Like, hey, your anniversary.
Yes, you just got married thistime last year.
Think about that anniversarygift.
(20:04):
Let's let's get her a pair ofdiamond studs or get him a
watch, something like that, um,to just express your love and
then get really detailed withthe messaging about a week or
two weeks ahead of time,depending on whether it's a male
or female and their habits typeof thing.
Because we know that um men tendto do shopping at the last
(20:25):
minute and women do it a littleearlier.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
Okay.
So uh I guess I've also am justcurious in general.
So can you ballpark what acampaign might cost as far as ad
spend?
Because I know it's differentdepending on where you are in
like the competition that's outthere and the time of the year.
So, for example, I know that youmentioned December.
December is like the bigleagues, that's like when it's
(20:51):
going to be intense.
I'm trying to encourage peopleto be marketing, especially for
their website, in all of theother parts of the year.
Um, maybe more.
I think it's like so thecacophony of noise is so loud in
December to buy stuff.
Granted, there is a reason tobuy stuff for most people.
What is like the what would youballpark for a jeweler that's
(21:12):
just wants to get intoretargeting uh for like, you
know, May or June?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
May or June?
Let's say, I mean, as a base, Isay with all of my campaigns,
we're looking at at least$500 amonth.
That's where we start to see theconversions come in.
That's where we start to seepeople walking at the store and
it's just a little bit better.
You can get away with a smallerbudget, but that is I I wouldn't
want anybody to be throwingtheir dollars into the wind and
(21:40):
saying, you know, oh, I'mspending, let's say,$250 a month
on this ad campaign, and youknow, people are seeing it, but
maybe they're not coming inbecause there's not enough, you
know, time and the ad budget isgetting gobbled up in the
beginning of the day, and youknow, people can't see it.
So definitely five hundreddollars as a minimum.
(22:00):
For a campaign, I'd I'd say.
And then um, depending on againwhat the messaging is, if it's
just diamond jewelry, then we'relooking at maybe you know that
$500 is a nice sweet spot.
But if we're looking at bridal,that's where we're looking at
$750 to$1,000 for a campaignjust because it is a uh
aggressive type of thing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Bridal is expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
It sure is.
It's just I I I am encouragingmore people, yeah, to sort of
just test it out.
One thing that I found formyself, and just with my own
paintings, is I found thatspending a little bit of money
and just trying to see what a uhan Instagram ad buy is like, it
just sort of I feel like Ilearned something through the
(22:46):
process.
Granted, I I would only spendlike$50 uh on boosting a post
just to see what it can do andlike see kind of how the effects
are.
Granted, it's like I I sometimeswonder it's$50 versus$500 versus
$5,000.
Are those powers worthnecessarily the increased um
(23:08):
buy?
I don't know.
I think that there is a certainpoint where you're just spending
more money.
However, I do think that when itcomes to these types of buys, I
think that it is a little bitcompetitive where you kind of
need to like spend enough moneyto start playing a little bit.
So I think you're probablyright, 500 bucks.
And then when it gets into umDecember, is it like minimum a
(23:31):
thousand dollars or is it morethan that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Well, at least.
So I will say like the customeracquisition cost across the
board is kind of at least like$800 as an average.
So if you think about that inlike a monthly term, right?
If we, you know, low end, let'ssay it's 400, high mid-range is
(23:55):
is eight.
If you're spending$500 a month,you could probably see about
gaining one customer type ofthing.
Um, when it comes to December,and because ad bids go crazy um
in November and December,depending it's again, it depends
on how aggressive you want tobe.
If you just want to keep thesame brand messaging out there
(24:16):
and you know, spend the 500, um,that's going to be eaten up
rather quickly.
When it comes to the holidays,you're looking at at least
doubling or tripling your adbudget for those last two months
to be effective.
But again, it does, you know, itdoes um matter where you are in
the United States, like let'ssay you're in the middle of you
(24:39):
know, America and you're in avery rural town and there's not
a lot of you know othercompetition, you might be
cooking.
Are you talking about New York?
No, listen, I'm not talkingabout, hey, New York in general,
outside of the city too, isexpensive.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
So now, how do you judge how do you judge success
on these things?
Is it like, hey, someone sawthis ad and bought a piece of
jewelry?
So I think that sometimes I findthat to be so narrow.
And like, what if someone sawand like you've mentioned
before, the funnel is so manysteps and they came in and they
bought it and like the addefinitely worked, but how do
(25:15):
you how do you is there a way toeven judge success on these
things?
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
So there's a few different things that we can
track on our end.
So specifically with Google,we're able to see if there's a
click to get directions to yourstore based on an ad.
There's also a nifty little toolthat I like called Microsoft
Clarity.
And that is you can see userintent and user browsing
(25:42):
basically on your website.
You can see what pages theyvisited, their whole journey, if
there was any hiccups throughoutthe whole thing.
Um, and then you can also see ifthat also came from an ad type
of thing.
So we can see at least on thedigital front, whether they made
a purchase, added to cart, addedto wish list, et cetera, based
on our ads.
However, where the buck stops,and it's unfortunate, right, is
(26:06):
we can't necessarily see if theyclicked on get directions that
they went there and actuallywent into the store.
So that's where we rely a littlebit on the retailer and say,
Hey, why'd you come in today?
And maybe it's because they sawyour ad 35 times, right?
And then all of a sudden theywere like, actually, I need
something.
And they remembered, you know,your brand.
(26:28):
So they finally, they finallyhave made the trip or you know,
what have you.
Um, so it's it's definitely amore cooperative effort to kind
of you know get those those uhnumbers in that regard.
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
That's why those those questions are so important
at at checkout, is you're justmaking a very casual
conversation.
And I I do find that jewelersare very good at this because I
don't think anyone like comesinto a store and buys in under
five minutes, you know, no onecomes in, buys, and leaves.
A lot of times it is much moreinvolved with their browsing and
(27:01):
things like that.
And even if they're highlyintent, um high intent shoppers,
I do find that asking them rightat the at the register, oh, so
what's this for?
Do you want a gift wrapped?
You know, what's the what's thewhat's the occasion?
Uh, and then whatever it is, Ido think capturing that
information, especially in yourpoint of sale system about why
they were buying it, um, it justadds an extra layer of data um
(27:23):
that you can eventually remarketto.
Sounds like uh, and then thatbrings you right to the
beginning of you know, marketingand then retargeting, and then
we're back to the races.
So um, anything else that weshould be discussing, hope on
this?
Um, it's a really interestingconversation.
It's very kind of sandbox, itfeels like.
Like you can, there's a lot ofways to skin the cat in this
case.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Absolutely.
Yep.
I mean, you know, listen, ifyou're trying to get retargeting
and interested about learningmore, definitely we're gonna be
at the workshop.
I'll be presenting on it umduring one of the days.
So come visit the seminar.
And of course, if you want totalk about it more, then I can
uh get real down in thenitty-gritty, depending on where
(28:04):
you guys are in in the countryand what your goals are, and we
can kind of come up with a gameplan from there.
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
Awesome.
And hope, I guess if uh peoplewhere should they reach out to
you if they want to, you know,they hear this episode and maybe
they're not at the workshop andthey want to um have a
discussion about retargeting fortheir own website, where would
they go?
SPEAKER_02 (28:23):
They can go to email me at hope at punchmark.com h o
p e.
And then they can also just callour digital marketing sales line
um that we can that can be foundon www.punchmark.com slash
digital marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
And there you go.
Thanks everybody so much.
Uh hope I appreciate you joiningme.
It's always fun talking aboutmarketing.
Um, I was uh looking on theside, trying to figure out if I
could export my data uh thatFacebook has on me, because it
would be really interesting tobe like, here's what it knows
about me.
Uh, but I uh I would have toremember my Facebook password.
And hey, nobody got time forthat.
(29:00):
So um I appreciate your time.
And everybody, we'll be backnext week, Tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
All right, everybody.
That was the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was HopeBelair, digital marketing
manager at Punchmark.
(29:21):
If you want to contact her, youcan email her Hope.
That's H-O-P-E at Punchmark.com.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burfo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop at L O
(29:41):
U P E.
Thanks, we'll be back next weekTuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop.
What is up everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
This week we're talking aboutretargeting.
Uh retargeting is the sort ofcreepy aspect of ads that sort
of seem to follow you aroundafter you uh visit a website and
(00:21):
uh get a chance to you knowre-advertise to you uh because
you've shown a level of interestor intent in shopping.
I wanted to speak with Hope totalk about the state of play,
some best practices, and alsohow you could maybe be doing
retargeting uh in Q2 and Q3.
Uh she's gonna be giving apresentation about this The
Client Workshop, which should begoing on as this episode
(00:42):
releases.
And I wanted to kind of get herthoughts on it ahead of time.
It's a really cool conversation.
I hope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:15):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth, or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
PunchMark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late to transformyour business and stitch
(01:37):
together your digital andphysical world in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmark.com slash go.
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
What is up, everybody?
I am joined by Hope Bel Air,digital marketing manager at
Punchmark.
How are you doing today, Hope?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
I'm doing so well.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
So well getting excited for the client workshop,
which this is going to airactually during the client
workshop.
So that's very exciting.
One of the topics you're goingto be discussing at the workshop
is going to be aboutretargeting.
I feel like uh retargeting hasbeen discussed in the past, but
it changes all the time.
Could you give me like anoverview, high-level view of uh
(02:27):
what retargeting actually is?
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
Sure.
So I'd like to say thatretargeting is a form of
clientelling, honestly.
So there's a lot of differentbuckets that retargeting can go
into, whether it's a client thatyou've had for let's say 10
years and hasn't been in thestore for quite a bit, or a new
client that hasn't necessarilybeen into your store but has
visited your website a coupledifferent times and viewed a
(02:52):
couple different products.
Um basically it is justnurturing those relationships,
whether they're online or instore.
SPEAKER_01 (03:01):
Yeah.
Sometimes I always think aboutit as like like gardening.
It's like some plants growreally quickly and some grow
really slow, and some of themneed a lot more nurturing before
you can have any uh before theybear any fruit.
And the cool thing is that thesecan be highly automated.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (03:19):
For sure.
Yeah.
With the tracking and everythingthat we have on the back end of
our punchmark websites, as wellas Google Analytics and stuff
like that, we can definitelywork with clients and stuff like
that to get a good retargetingaudience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:34):
So when you set up retargeting, are you setting it
up on like a per platform basis?
Or is there a way for you tobuild one retargeting uh series
and then have it displayeverywhere?
Or do you have to build one forGoogle, one for Facebook, one
for, I don't know, Reddit?
Do you have to do all of thoseindividually?
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Yeah.
So what obviously withmarketing, we always try to have
a very holistic viewpoint,especially with email, Meta,
Google, et cetera.
But specifically between Metaand Google, those are the two
powerhouses, right?
Retargeting on Google looks alot different than retargeting
on Meta.
(04:14):
Mainly because Meta is again astrong visual platform.
We're focused on visitors thathave already seen the website
and know, you know, your brand.
And let's say that they werelooking at a pair of diamond
studs on your website.
What we would retarget them thenfor is diamond studs or diamond
(04:36):
jewelry as a whole.
It's great for lifestyleimagery, social proof, of
course, if you have a strongsocial media presence
organically and a lot of brandrecall.
So Instagram, Facebook, etcetera, is a little bit more of
the proactive um platform, in myopinion, and in a lot of
people's opinions, honestly.
(04:58):
But um, you know, you're we'recreating those touch points
where let's say a new clientsees you, it takes about five to
nine touch points for them tofinally visit your site when
they see an ad.
So when they visit the site,then they get into a different
funnel, basically.
Um they visit the website andthey're like, oh, okay, well,
(05:19):
that ad worked for them to comeand see, you know, the website
as a whole, and here's wherethey went on their journey.
Based on where they went ontheir journey, they're now put
in to a different type offunnel, that mid-funnel tier, to
really get out there and say,Hey, we know you just saw this,
we're gonna keep targeting youwith these lifestyle images and
(05:41):
these videos because this iswhat attracted you to our
website.
Now, in Google, it's a lotdifferent because Google is a
little bit more reactive andthat it is a search-based query
that comes through, and thenfrom there we retarget.
So that would be kind of goingfrom a search intent to more of
(06:02):
a quote unquote what we like tocall performance max campaign,
which highlights display, Gmailmarketing, um, Google Maps, and
stuff like that.
So let's say they searcheddiamond jewelry near me, and
they searched and your search adcame up based on that.
Once they click on that ad, weknow they went to the website.
(06:25):
Same kind of thing happens.
However, now it's going to bemore subtle in a way.
It's just gonna pop up on theside of their Gmail or at the
top of their Google Maps whereit's like, hey, we know you just
went to this website.
Here's the direction to thatstore if you're close.
Um, and then it's just basicallyfor intent-based follow-up in
(06:49):
that case.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So are these ads independent of the device that
they're on?
So for example, if I'm logged inand I'm I'm viewing some stuff
on my laptop and then I use myphone, do I have the same, I
guess, profile that is havingthese ads applied to it?
Like if I'm progressing and I'mseeing more and more ads, are
(07:10):
they progressing whether I'm onphone or I'm on uh like a
MacBook or something?
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Yeah.
So for the most part, actually,this is a perfect example
because I was doing someresearch, I guess, for Gabriel
and Co.
not too long ago on um my laptophere, my work laptop,
copitpunchmark.com.
And even still, since Iresearched it and looked at
(07:37):
their website on you know, mywork computer on my personal
Instagram, I was then floodedwith Gabriel and Co.
ads um on my Instagramspecifically.
So um, nope, I don't think itdoes matter.
Definitely the technology that'saround us all the time
communicates with each other inways that I'm sure we don't even
(07:58):
begin to understand.
Um, but yeah, nope.
As if you're searching on yourlaptop, let's say diamond
jewelry, then on your phone,it's gonna pick it up.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
And what about is this also uh are the ads
progressing?
You know what I mean?
Like progressing as in likehaving those touch points myself
as a shopper.
If I'm on Google and I searchdiamond rings and I click on
yours, and then I go back and Isee a display ad for diamond
rings, and then there's two ofthem, and I click on one that is
(08:30):
not yours.
Is that also showing intent toGoogle where it's um like are
they all being pooled across allthe different ads that I've
seen, as in like not just yours,or does it have to be your
funnel that it only applies to?
Does that make sense?
Uh like I'm trying to see iflike sometimes I get ads from
(08:50):
multiple different uh places.
If I'm, you know, for example,looking at sometimes I look at
jackets and I see an ad from umHuckberry, Huckberry, but then
sometimes I click on Philson andthen Philsen and then I go back
to Huckberry.
Is that also applying to it?
Like, is it building a strongercase for me to be uh a highly um
(09:11):
uh customer with high intent?
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
So yes, and that is separate.
So with our, like let's say ourretailers, right?
We're retargeting those based onyou know, XYZ jeweler in
Charlotte, let's say.
If all of a sudden XYZ jeweler,we've been retargeting them, you
(09:33):
know, it's on the fifth touchpoint of that second funnel that
I mentioned, all of a suddenthey're gonna go ahead and click
on ABC Jeweler instead of XYZ.
That is only giving Instagramand Google your intent.
So basically the algorithms andboth saying, hey, this person is
definitely a high-intent buyerfor you know a diamond jewelry,
(09:58):
but that does not go into thelike data points for us and our
retargeting.
So for example, if XYZ jeweler,you know, we're still
retargeting to this guy thatlooked at our website.
If he clicks on ABC jeweler, wedon't necessarily know that.
And that's okay because a lot ofyou know, jewelry in it in
(10:20):
itself isn't a whim purchase forthe most part.
They're gonna do their research,they're gonna compare, but with
every click that they go on Metaand Google, it is serving that
algorithm to know that, hey,okay, we've served we've served
them this ad from ABC and XYZJeweler.
(10:41):
He's definitely, you know, goingto make a purchase here soon.
Obviously, Instagram and Googledoesn't necessarily know where
they're gonna go, but theretargeting ads from both will
be served to him all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
It's really quite interesting because I noticed um
I noticed that they they chaseme around too.
I always joke like that itthinks I'm the most uh eligible
bachelor of all time because I'mconstantly looking at engagement
rings on many differentwebsites.
But I guess I'm I'm confusedsometimes about when an ad
(11:15):
decides to show up.
Uh, you know what I mean?
It's like I do have ad blockerson a lot of my devices and a lot
of websites.
And sometimes an ad uh shows upand I'm always confused about
it.
Are you basing these off ofpersonas like I or I guess um
audience like demographics?
(11:36):
Like, how are you building whoshould even initially see it?
Or is it just, you know, hey, ifthey visited our website in the
last, you know, 30 days, we'regoing to show them um them ads.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
Yeah.
So for an initial campaignacross the board, Google Meta,
all the same, we are creatingpersonas that are, okay, you
know, this person is in arelationship.
You know, maybe they've been ina relationship for two months,
four years.
We don't really know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Crazy, crazy that they can even discern that.
I sidebar, but keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
So in a relationship, engaged, we can
see, if they're married, we cansee, if they have kids, um, we
can use all of those lifestylefactors as well as specifically
with um meta, we can go in.
There's a whole subset forGabriel and co-engagement rings.
So, like if they have um ademographic that say they really
(12:37):
like Gabriel and Co-engagementrings, cool.
We want to show them some oftheir some of our custom
engagement rings.
That's something that we can goahead and pick on Meta to just
say, hey, I know you like this,but hey, look at this.
And this is similar to Gabrieland Co, and you'd be, you know,
supporting an independentjeweler instead.
That is for the initialcampaign.
(12:58):
For the secondary campaign, theretargeting campaign that we're
talking about, that is solelycoming from lists.
So that is someone that has beento the website in the last 30 to
180 days.
That is someone that is a clientof yours that maybe hasn't shown
up in two years that we want toretarget and you provide us that
list.
Um, that's someone that went tothe diamond jewelry category on
(13:21):
the website and now is onlygoing to be served diamond
pendants.
Same thing with engagementrings, custom, appointment-based
stuff.
Um, it can really dive down intospecific segments when we're
retargeting so that we're onlygrabbing that niche audience
from every, you know, angle,basically.
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Now, what about things that are not, well, I
guess it is because I use aGmail.
I was gonna say that are notrelated to it, that are not like
browsing based.
Um, one thing I notice is I'm onseveral of our clients' uh
newsletters.
And a lot of the times I gettheir newsletters for events and
campaigns because you know, Ihave a testing account on their
(14:03):
website, or I have done a testum uh transaction or something
along the lines over the years.
And I've probably done this on20 um of our clients' websites,
and now I, you know, I get themoccasionally.
Is email opening is that relatedto retargeting?
Is like, do emails and what Iguess Meta and Google know about
(14:28):
me?
Are those at all connected orare they independent?
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
So it's a little bit more independent.
So whether you're using likeemail marketing specifically, we
can get an engaged audience.
So basically, if they've clickedon the email to open it, if
they've gone to the website fromthere, that is an engaged
audience.
What we can do from you knowyour email platform, whether
(14:53):
that be Clavio, MailChimp, etc.,we can download that audience
and upload that to Meta orGoogle or use a third-party
connector like Zapier to connectthe two to where we're like,
hey, actually, this Mother's Dayemail that we sent out, um, we
(15:14):
had let's say 50 people click onit.
I want those 50 people to seethis Mother's Day ad now.
Um, so yeah, it can definitelygo across platforms.
It just requires a couple moreconnections and integrations um
from either your marketingperson or a third-party
platform.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
And then one of the last ones I was thinking of is
uh abandoned cart ads are very,I think the strongest, in my
opinion, because it's like, hey,you're so close to buying.
What do you think about acoupon?
Have you ever added something toyour cart?
Being like, I'm not gonna buythis, I'm gonna see if I can get
a coupon out of this.
And then you like add it to yourcart and then you leave and just
(15:53):
like see if they'll send yousomething.
Because I've done that severaltimes and it it used to work a
lot better.
I'm gonna say, probably 10 yearsago.
I feel like people were a lotmore aggressive about uh sending
coupons uh for a band of carts.
Are abandoned cart email,because Punchmarks uh site
manager has an entire automationthat's just built off of
(16:14):
abandoned carts, and I think itjust automatically works for
everybody.
Is that something that also tiesinto these campaigns, or is that
just totally isolated andseparate?
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
So when we notice that someoneis abandoned cart, obviously our
platform sends out an automatedemail.
But if you also have a flow setup in another email platform, we
can use again that persona andthat profile that we know
abandoned the cart and create anad to be like, hey, actually,
(16:45):
remember this specific product?
Yeah, it's like a dynamic ad.
Like, don't don't miss out.
Keep keep browsing type ofthing.
Um, I get that all the time aswell with my algorithms.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
All right, everybody, we're gonna take a
quick break and hear a word fromour sponsor.
This episode of In the Loop isbrought to you by Punchmark.
We've been hard at work rollingout new e-commerce experiences
designed specifically forjewelry retailers, including
expanding payment options likeApple Pay, Google Pay, and more.
(17:20):
It's all about making checkoutfaster, easier, and more
seamless for your customers soyou can convert more sales.
If you're ready to modernizeyour website and unlock better
performance, book a demo todayat punchmark.com slash go.
And now, back to the show.
(17:42):
And we're back.
So I guess uh and also are thesecampaigns are these like uh
retargeting, is this somethingthat everybody should be doing
all the time as just like a bestpractice, or is it best geared
towards like like an event or Iguess or towards like slow
times?
Because like around here, onething I've been kind of thinking
(18:04):
about increasingly is a lot ofthe times Mike Town shuts down
for like all of April.
And I sometimes wonder if it'sshould you be trying to drive
traffic in the slow part of theyear, or should you be like kind
of building this infrastructureand then driving traffic, being
like, hey, it's been a while,and then like trying to catch
(18:25):
the traffic as they come back.
So I've always wondered like, isthere uh do you try to have
people like set up these kindsof things around sales?
Or is it just like, hey, comevisit us, that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_02 (18:37):
So it can be both.
Honestly, retargeting is good tojust kind of have as a slow burn
all year.
Again, it's just kind of thattop of mind awareness.
It's not necessarily going tocost you big bucks to do so, but
um just having that top of mindretargeting awareness going all
(18:58):
year round is is fabulous,right?
But specifically um Q3 goinginto Q4, definitely ramping it
up and saying, hey, Christmas isright around the corner.
Um let's do it this especiallyDecember, same thing.
Um, and then if you know,obviously jewelers collect a lot
(19:20):
of personal information, like ananniversary date or a birthday,
something like that, those aregood um segments to have for
retargeting purposes becauselet's say, right, you had a
couple come in, they bought anengagement ring from you two
years ago, and they got marriedonly six months ago, right?
(19:43):
In the six months, obviously,they're going to go ahead and
have their first anniversary.
So two months to a month out,saying just set sending them
subtle messages.
Again, it's almost likesubconscious.
Like, hey, your anniversary.
Yes, you just got married thistime last year.
Think about that anniversarygift.
(20:04):
Let's let's get her a pair ofdiamond studs or get him a
watch, something like that, um,to just express your love and
then get really detailed withthe messaging about a week or
two weeks ahead of time,depending on whether it's a male
or female and their habits typeof thing.
Because we know that um men tendto do shopping at the last
(20:25):
minute and women do it a littleearlier.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
Okay.
So uh I guess I've also am justcurious in general.
So can you ballpark what acampaign might cost as far as ad
spend?
Because I know it's differentdepending on where you are in
like the competition that's outthere and the time of the year.
So, for example, I know that youmentioned December.
December is like the bigleagues, that's like when it's
(20:51):
going to be intense.
I'm trying to encourage peopleto be marketing, especially for
their website, in all of theother parts of the year.
Um, maybe more.
I think it's like so thecacophony of noise is so loud in
December to buy stuff.
Granted, there is a reason tobuy stuff for most people.
What is like the what would youballpark for a jeweler that's
(21:12):
just wants to get intoretargeting uh for like, you
know, May or June?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
May or June?
Let's say, I mean, as a base, Isay with all of my campaigns,
we're looking at at least$500 amonth.
That's where we start to see theconversions come in.
That's where we start to seepeople walking at the store and
it's just a little bit better.
You can get away with a smallerbudget, but that is I I wouldn't
want anybody to be throwingtheir dollars into the wind and
(21:40):
saying, you know, oh, I'mspending, let's say,$250 a month
on this ad campaign, and youknow, people are seeing it, but
maybe they're not coming inbecause there's not enough, you
know, time and the ad budget isgetting gobbled up in the
beginning of the day, and youknow, people can't see it.
So definitely five hundreddollars as a minimum.
(22:00):
For a campaign, I'd I'd say.
And then um, depending on againwhat the messaging is, if it's
just diamond jewelry, then we'relooking at maybe you know that
$500 is a nice sweet spot.
But if we're looking at bridal,that's where we're looking at
$750 to$1,000 for a campaignjust because it is a uh
aggressive type of thing.
SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Bridal is expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
It sure is.
It's just I I I am encouragingmore people, yeah, to sort of
just test it out.
One thing that I found formyself, and just with my own
paintings, is I found thatspending a little bit of money
and just trying to see what a uhan Instagram ad buy is like, it
just sort of I feel like Ilearned something through the
(22:46):
process.
Granted, I I would only spendlike$50 uh on boosting a post
just to see what it can do andlike see kind of how the effects
are.
Granted, it's like I I sometimeswonder it's$50 versus$500 versus
$5,000.
Are those powers worthnecessarily the increased um
(23:08):
buy?
I don't know.
I think that there is a certainpoint where you're just spending
more money.
However, I do think that when itcomes to these types of buys, I
think that it is a little bitcompetitive where you kind of
need to like spend enough moneyto start playing a little bit.
So I think you're probablyright, 500 bucks.
And then when it gets into umDecember, is it like minimum a
(23:31):
thousand dollars or is it morethan that?
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
Well, at least.
So I will say like the customeracquisition cost across the
board is kind of at least like$800 as an average.
So if you think about that inlike a monthly term, right?
If we, you know, low end, let'ssay it's 400, high mid-range is
(23:55):
is eight.
If you're spending$500 a month,you could probably see about
gaining one customer type ofthing.
Um, when it comes to December,and because ad bids go crazy um
in November and December,depending it's again, it depends
on how aggressive you want tobe.
If you just want to keep thesame brand messaging out there
(24:16):
and you know, spend the 500, um,that's going to be eaten up
rather quickly.
When it comes to the holidays,you're looking at at least
doubling or tripling your adbudget for those last two months
to be effective.
But again, it does, you know, itdoes um matter where you are in
the United States, like let'ssay you're in the middle of you
(24:39):
know, America and you're in avery rural town and there's not
a lot of you know othercompetition, you might be
cooking.
Are you talking about New York?
No, listen, I'm not talkingabout, hey, New York in general,
outside of the city too, isexpensive.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
So now, how do you judge how do you judge success
on these things?
Is it like, hey, someone sawthis ad and bought a piece of
jewelry?
So I think that sometimes I findthat to be so narrow.
And like, what if someone sawand like you've mentioned
before, the funnel is so manysteps and they came in and they
bought it and like the addefinitely worked, but how do
(25:15):
you how do you is there a way toeven judge success on these
things?
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
So there's a few different things that we can
track on our end.
So specifically with Google,we're able to see if there's a
click to get directions to yourstore based on an ad.
There's also a nifty little toolthat I like called Microsoft
Clarity.
And that is you can see userintent and user browsing
(25:42):
basically on your website.
You can see what pages theyvisited, their whole journey, if
there was any hiccups throughoutthe whole thing.
Um, and then you can also see ifthat also came from an ad type
of thing.
So we can see at least on thedigital front, whether they made
a purchase, added to cart, addedto wish list, et cetera, based
on our ads.
However, where the buck stops,and it's unfortunate, right, is
(26:06):
we can't necessarily see if theyclicked on get directions that
they went there and actuallywent into the store.
So that's where we rely a littlebit on the retailer and say,
Hey, why'd you come in today?
And maybe it's because they sawyour ad 35 times, right?
And then all of a sudden theywere like, actually, I need
something.
And they remembered, you know,your brand.
(26:28):
So they finally, they finallyhave made the trip or you know,
what have you.
Um, so it's it's definitely amore cooperative effort to kind
of you know get those those uhnumbers in that regard.
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
That's why those those questions are so important
at at checkout, is you're justmaking a very casual
conversation.
And I I do find that jewelersare very good at this because I
don't think anyone like comesinto a store and buys in under
five minutes, you know, no onecomes in, buys, and leaves.
A lot of times it is much moreinvolved with their browsing and
(27:01):
things like that.
And even if they're highlyintent, um high intent shoppers,
I do find that asking them rightat the at the register, oh, so
what's this for?
Do you want a gift wrapped?
You know, what's the what's thewhat's the occasion?
Uh, and then whatever it is, Ido think capturing that
information, especially in yourpoint of sale system about why
they were buying it, um, it justadds an extra layer of data um
(27:23):
that you can eventually remarketto.
Sounds like uh, and then thatbrings you right to the
beginning of you know, marketingand then retargeting, and then
we're back to the races.
So um, anything else that weshould be discussing, hope on
this?
Um, it's a really interestingconversation.
It's very kind of sandbox, itfeels like.
Like you can, there's a lot ofways to skin the cat in this
case.
SPEAKER_02 (27:43):
Absolutely.
Yep.
I mean, you know, listen, ifyou're trying to get retargeting
and interested about learningmore, definitely we're gonna be
at the workshop.
I'll be presenting on it umduring one of the days.
So come visit the seminar.
And of course, if you want totalk about it more, then I can
uh get real down in thenitty-gritty, depending on where
(28:04):
you guys are in in the countryand what your goals are, and we
can kind of come up with a gameplan from there.
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
Awesome.
And hope, I guess if uh peoplewhere should they reach out to
you if they want to, you know,they hear this episode and maybe
they're not at the workshop andthey want to um have a
discussion about retargeting fortheir own website, where would
they go?
SPEAKER_02 (28:23):
They can go to email me at hope at punchmark.com h o
p e.
And then they can also just callour digital marketing sales line
um that we can that can be foundon www.punchmark.com slash
digital marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
And there you go.
Thanks everybody so much.
Uh hope I appreciate you joiningme.
It's always fun talking aboutmarketing.
Um, I was uh looking on theside, trying to figure out if I
could export my data uh thatFacebook has on me, because it
would be really interesting tobe like, here's what it knows
about me.
Uh, but I uh I would have toremember my Facebook password.
And hey, nobody got time forthat.
(29:00):
So um I appreciate your time.
And everybody, we'll be backnext week, Tuesday, with another
episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
All right, everybody.
That was the end of the show.
Thanks so much for listening.
My guest this week was HopeBelair, digital marketing
manager at Punchmark.
(29:21):
If you want to contact her, youcan email her Hope.
That's H-O-P-E at Punchmark.com.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, Michael Burfo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
Cochran.
Don't forget to rate the podcaston Spotify and Apple Podcasts
and leave us feedback onpunchmark.com slash loop at L O
(29:41):
U P E.
Thanks, we'll be back next weekTuesday with another episode.
Cheers.
Bye.
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