July 16, 2025 • 54 mins
In this deeply human and unforgettable episode, Christina Miglino King returns to the show—this time joined by her partner, award-winning drag king and trans non-binary activist Lee King (aka Phantom Nips). Together, they share the story of how they met, fell in love, and built a new kind of life—one rooted in truth, presence, and the kind of connection that only comes after burning it all down.
We talk about the moments that change us: a devastating burnout, a $5 bill with a phone number, walking shirtless into the sun for the first time, saying “I’m staying” in the middle of a hard conversation. Christina reflects on what it meant to let her old life collapse—shutting down a business, grieving the identity she had built, and trusting the strange, undeniable pull of her intuition… all the way to the love of her life. Lee opens up about gender, drag, cancer, sobriety, and surviving a suicide attempt that gave them a second chance at life.
Topics:
- Ego death and rebuilding identity
- Drag, gender, embodiment, and authenticity
- Burnout, collapse, and radical redirection
- Queer love and being chosen for who you are
- Body dysphoria and healing through top surgery
- Sobriety, depression, and surviving suicide
- Starting over at any age
- The power of staying through the hard stuff
- What it means to be seen, truly seen—and stay
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Hmm.
Speaker 03 (00:02):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
Speaker 07 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by
passion, by integrity, then Ireally do think that I know who
I am.
Speaker 06 (00:21):
There is a peace that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not going to come to theend of my life and be like, I
didn't live the life I was meantto live.
Jessica (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the idea This is the Inner
Melissa (00:40):
Rebel Podcast.
Jessica (00:50):
Christina Maglino-King And when you first joined us,
(01:23):
you were in the depths ofburnout and letting go of an old
identity and a business, awhole life.
And now you are in a chapter ofreinventing yourself and newly
married to the love of yourlife.
And so we're excited to haveyou back because there's been so
many changes and I've beenwitness to a lot of those
changes and your process throughthese different dimensions of
(01:47):
self.
And I'm really excited to sharewith our listeners today.
And we are also excited to haveLee Ignatius King.
Are you also known as PhantomNips on stage?
Is that?
Lee King (01:58):
Yes, that's my drag king name.
Jessica (02:01):
Your drag king name is Phantom Nips.
You're an award-winningnon-binary transmasculine drag
king based in Santa Fe, NewMexico.
You live your life proudly as anon-binary trans masc person
who believes that all bodies arebeautiful and that we should
all live freely as our authenticselves.
You're also the recipient ofthe 2024 New Mexico In
Lee King (02:22):
the running for this year, too.
Amazing.
Jessica (02:26):
And you placed second as a world champion in the
Highland Games as an athlete.
So through your drag-esqueperformances and your daily
existence, you challenge normsaround beauty, gender, and
identity.
And I am so happy to have youwith us today and have the two
of you with us today.
I'm so excited to get to meet
Melissa (02:44):
you.
I'm really boring.
I don't think that's remotelytrue.
Not even a little bit.
If you're boring, then I don'tknow what that makes me.
So I really got to up my gameif that's what boring is.
Jessica (02:57):
I have so many questions about how you two met
and I want to hear your story.
But the first question that weask our guests is what is your
relationship to your innerrebel?
So I would love to offer thatto
Christina Miglino King (03:12):
both of you.
Is
Lee King (03:13):
there an inner?
Jessica (03:15):
Yeah,
Christina Miglino King (03:16):
right.
I was going to say Lee showstheir rebel all over the place.
place.
Jessica (03:21):
You're an inner-outer rebel.
I'm curious what your journeyhas been with that rebel.
Lee King (03:25):
Wow.
Inner rebel.
Yeah.
My mom used to call it myartistic personality.
Yeah.
That's the nice way to say it.
It's like I always questionedthings.
And I was raised Catholic, soyou weren't supposed to do that.
I think it was more, the rebelis rebellious, just in all
directions when I was younger,without a focus.
And now I realize that I canuse that to help community and
(03:52):
to speak out for others thatmaybe
Speaker 05 (03:54):
don't
Lee King (03:55):
want that target on them.
And I'm in my...
Can I swear on the show?
Speaker 05 (04:00):
Yeah.
Always.
Lee King (04:01):
Yes, absolutely.
I call it my fuck it 50s.
Speaker 05 (04:03):
Yeah.
Lee King (04:04):
It is a magical moment when you cross over into the
50s where you really...
don't care as much about whatother people are thinking about
you.
You just want to do right byyourself, by your family, by
your friends and your communityand whatever that takes.
So it's not always pretty.
It's not always, what's theword?
(04:26):
How would you describe me?
Christina Miglino King (04:28):
How would I describe you?
You just described yourselfperfectly, but you're a badass.
And yeah, you're not, youdon't, like fear is not a way
that you, live your life youknow you don't yeah not that
we're not afraid of things oryou're not
Lee King (04:44):
yeah definitely fear is a factor especially in 2025
you know every morning I wake upand start doom scrolling but
it's working past that fear Ithink I when I was younger I
would be paralyzed by it nowit's like I hate it but I know
that it won't do myself orChristina or my community any
(05:08):
good If I just sit here and donothing, I can never change
things if I don't do somethingabout it myself first.
So I put the pressure on me andthen the rest of the world.
Melissa (05:21):
Before we have Christina answer the question, I
grew up in a very conservativeChristian household, so I can
relate to the do not questionanything mentality.
Was this part of you nurturedin your family of origin or were
you kind of fighting againstwhat they expected you to be?
(05:43):
Were they nurturing to thispart of you that was challenging
the status quo?
Was there some part of yourfamily that allowed you to be
you or was it looked different?
down upon and they kept tryingto put you back in the box that
they wanted you to be in.
I
Lee King (06:00):
think they eventually gave up.
And then they passed a longtime ago in 2010.
And they didn't get to see whatI have become.
But it was stages of it.
I mean, they let me be an artmajor, go to art school.
Like I said, the term wasartistic temperament.
(06:23):
That was, it's like, it's okay,leave special.
Just go with it.
But I just always felt kind oflike in the company of their
friends, they were a little bitashamed.
So I would be more quiet aroundcertain groups of people.
Jessica (06:38):
There was a time that you did care more about what
other people thought of you.
And I'm wondering what helpedthat shift.
Was there a defining moment?
Was it just evolving over time?
How did...
Did you reach a point where youdecided it doesn't matter
anymore?
I'm just going to be myself.
Lee King (06:56):
After breast cancer and I had top surgery, breast
cancer gave me the body I alwayswanted.
I never thought I would do topsurgery.
I thought I would just staypretty much closeted my entire
life and just go with it.
And then cancer.
Cool.
Had to deal with it.
So it was going to be one side.
We did the wink, wink, nudge,nudge to the surgeon and we got
(07:18):
both.
Once I got rid of my breasts,which was my dysmorphia, then a
year later, I startedtestosterone.
And just coming into my bodyand myself and being and seeing
the person that I always saw inmy head, in reality, in the
(07:42):
mirror, gave me the confidenceto to really not care anymore
about if people found out who iwas so and it's a fight it's
stressful you know i'm passingas a man now even though i don't
identify as a man i am makingit a point of correcting people
(08:03):
that i am non-binary becausethen People won't learn that
there is the other.
There are other genders.
It really does exist, folks.
You know, I've tried to fitinto that box too.
It's like, well, maybe becauseI look more masculine, I should
be a man.
I don't feel that way.
I'm not a woman.
(08:23):
I'm not a man.
Somewhere in between.
All of it, none of it.
And it's okay.
It's okay.
That's what I want to teachpeople.
It's like, it's not a threat.
It's not going to change yourlife.
Me changing mine ain't going tochange yours.
Yeah.
Jessica (08:36):
I would love to just go back to that moment.
Thank you so much for havingme.
I feel like there's some kindof full integration that must
(08:59):
occur between all of thesedifferent parts of you that
would never come together untilthat moment.
Never be.
Yeah.
Lee King (09:06):
I mean, there's been moments like the first time
walking out in public without ashirt on.
That's like a scary, you know,what's going to happen?
You know, are you going to getarrested for something?
Unknown (09:17):
Yeah.
Lee King (09:18):
Wow, this is cool.
Feeling the sun on your chestand your back, which is so
stupid.
Because again, my platform isbodies.
We should all be able to walkaround.
Yeah.
You know, nothing's going tohappen.
Nobody should be doing anythingnasty or naughty to another
human being without theirconsent.
But starting the changes, likemy voice changed.
(09:41):
That was a happy surprise.
I didn't think I'd like that.
So now I sound like a gay man.
What else?
Slowly, my face has kind ofchanged, noticing little things,
people that haven't seen me ina while, noticing things.
First time I was called senorat Backroad Pizza where we work.
(10:02):
I was like, hey, senor.
I was like, I'm senor nowrather than dude or bro.
That was cool.
I'm also trying not to takeoffense when people do say Well,
I hate the word ma'am.
Who doesn't?
It's like ma'am or miss, but ifI'm gendered the other way, I'm
like, oh, okay, cool.
So I'm kind of like fluid.
(10:22):
That's nice.
There's little surprises everyday of people notice.
And then doing drag.
Drag is affirming in itself.
People like me, and that'snice.
I
Melissa (10:36):
think it's such a beautiful testament to the
iterative process of being seenfor who you are, which...
I believe every human that's onthat journey has these
bite-sized moments.
I love that you're describinglike, oh, I was referred to as
this and then I had this moment.
And becoming the embodiment ofwho you are isn't an overnight
(10:57):
thing.
You don't wake up one day andyou're like, I have arrived.
It's just such a devotionmoment.
a devotion to being you and Ithink when we find a community
that can reflect back to us andeven extract it further it's
like that permission and safetylike I can exist here safely as
(11:22):
me and then what else isavailable for me to be even more
expressed even more me andthere is a group of people
that's like yeah we love youexactly as you are you don't
need to be any different and Imean, I know our journeys are
obviously very different, butI've needed those people that
I've discerned as safe to beable to have that witnessing to
(11:43):
just say like, hey, this is whatI see in you.
This is what I love in you.
And please continue to be that.
So I'm just really present tothat as you're sharing your
story of becoming because it'sjust so beautiful, the feeling
of belonging and being seen.
Jessica (11:56):
And Christina, I know you've been on your own version,
a different version of thisprocess of becoming.
So I'm going back to thatquestion.
What is your relationshipcurrently to your inner rebel?
We talked a little bit about itin that first episode, but
you've changed a lot since then.
So I'd love to hear.
Oh, gosh.
Christina Miglino King (12:16):
What is it?
You know, I mean, there's sortof a, we mentioned like the fuck
it 50s and I'll be 40 thisyear.
And there's a degree of thatfor 40s.
It's probably not as liberatedas the 50s, you know.
I think as we get older, thatbecoming unfolds naturally in
some way.
I think that's the naturaltendency for human beings, I
(12:38):
think, maybe.
So there is definitely anelement of like, oh yeah, no,
I'm exhausted.
So I don't care if you like meor not.
You know, like there's a levelof like, I'm so done with
another way of saying it islike, is reaching for what I
want.
Okay, that sounds like I don'thave any like desire to get what
(13:00):
I want.
I have lots of desire in me tohave the life that I want and to
be who I want to be.
But this year in particular hasshown me manifesting something
is not about It's not about likeI have to go and grasp
everything.
I feel like that's actuallylike a very colonial way.
(13:20):
I mean, I'm a white person.
I think that a lot of us thatlook like me, we naturally
think, oh, I just go like be thefastest and the quickest.
And I have to stay up thelongest and not rest and not
sleep and not be able tofunction and be like sick half
the time, but still going.
And then I can have what Iwant.
And I think that's reallysilly.
(13:40):
Now that I've had my lifetime,this 40 years of studying energy
and energy medicine, it's likeactually if I just be it right
now, I'm going to just draw itto me.
That's easier.
Like I'm tired.
Like that's how I feel, youknow?
And I think that is rebelliousbecause it's rebellious
(14:03):
thinking.
It's like, I don't have to buyinto the fact that I can't have
multiple careers in my life orthat I can't take a couple years
to work at a pizza shop andmake minimum wage so that I can
have some resource inside of meto listen to what is next and
how I can best serve the planetnow, you know?
(14:26):
So I really am in a rebirthtime.
It's been several years.
And by the way, it's okay if ittakes time.
Well, it always does.
Melissa (14:36):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And it's painful sometimes too,you know, whatever the, I mean,
we're always in the in-between,but it goes back to what you
said that it's like, it has tohappen overnight.
It has to be in a Totally.
Right.
It seems like you were in thatbig transition of switching from
(15:12):
I have to generate everythingto I can allow it to come to me.
Christina Miglino King (15:17):
Yeah, I mean, then I was devastated
still about that understanding.
I felt like the wool wasfinally...
Like, I didn't have my blinderson anymore and I realized the
truth about something here, likeabout the energy of things and
that...
yeah, that I don't have to doit alone.
(15:37):
And all the pushing in mybusiness wasn't that helpful
anyway.
And so many things.
And I had a great business andJessica Rose and Melissa, you
were both part of it.
You know, it was a beautifulcommunity for some time.
And I always kind of knew thatlike it wasn't sustainable the
way it was forever, especiallywith me being the Like I love
(16:01):
being a leader.
I think it's a beautiful thing.
But the truth of leadership isreally like to create many
leaders around you so thatyou're all leading together.
And I think we had that attimes.
But I didn't know how toreframe things to be like that
in a business.
And quite honestly, I worked acouple years past my burnout.
So I was so far gone by thetime that I shut the doors that
(16:25):
I had to let go of everything Ihad.
I let go of my home.
I let go of everything, myland.
And it was like, it wasinteresting to experience
building, you know, inentrepreneurship, it's like,
build it, build it, build it.
And it's like, I alsoexperienced the complete
collapse of everything.
And also that wasn't overnight.
It's not like, oh my God, itwas a tragedy and everything was
(16:46):
lost.
It's like, no, this is life.
This is how energy works.
Everything grows and eventuallyexperiences its full potential
and then it dies and it goesback into the earth and it gets
recomposted.
That's everything, you know?
But yeah, that was terrifying.
I remember when you guys askedme to do an interview and I was
like, why would you want tointerview me?
(17:06):
Like, I have a hot mess.
I have no idea who I am.
Everything I thought I knew isgone.
But that's actually, that's themajor ego deaths that we have
to, if we're lucky enough tosurvive them, we learn so much
from that.
We learn more about life inthat experience than I think
(17:26):
pretty much anything else.
And it's devastating.
It's devastating.
I can cry about it right now ifI want to, because it's so,
it's still right there in myheart, you know, what I lost,
what it feels like was lost, youknow,
Jessica (17:39):
but it's still there.
I remember at the time yousaying that, why would you want
to have me on now?
But for me, I remember thinkingit was the bravest thing I had
ever seen anyone do.
It was so brave.
It was so honest.
It was so true to yourself.
(17:59):
I knew no one who would havethat commitment to self, that
self-awareness and trust that toknow this isn't working and
it's okay if I let it all go andjust be born again and see what
happens.
And so many of us are asked todo that in our lives, but very
(18:20):
few do it so gracefully.
Not enough it felt gracefully.
I don't think it felt graceful.
A tornado sweeping you up.
I don't think internally itfelt graceful.
But it really was.
It was deliberate.
It was very intentional.
And I'm really excited to sharewhere it led.
Speaker 05 (18:41):
And I
Jessica (18:42):
do remember, yeah, you shut down the business and
you're like, I'm working at apizza shop now.
Lee King (18:49):
Best pizza in Santa Fe, though.
Jessica (18:51):
I've heard that and I can't wait to try it.
But I remember just being soproud of you and thought it was
the coolest thing ever, eventhough it was so hard.
And I knew it was reallypainful.
I knew all the things that youwere going through.
But then let's flash forward alittle bit in this process, in
this time.
Can you share how the two ofyou met?
Christina Miglino King (19:10):
Yeah.
Do you want?
Lee King (19:11):
Go for it, babe.
Let's start.
Christina Miglino King (19:14):
Okay.
So for me, I was...
obsessed with my business.
My business was my partner.
Like I didn't do a lot ofdating.
There was occasional dating.
I mean, I was with somebodywhen I started my business and I
left them.
When I left Washington, we hadseparated and then I was alone
for about five years and Ireally didn't, I wasn't going
(19:36):
out a lot.
I mean, it was COVID too.
We were online and that's whatI did.
And then once I was shuttingdown the business and
everything, I mean, I wascompletely lost.
and confused about thedirection of my life.
I mean, I still knew who I wasand I knew, I just want to say
this, like I never lost track ofthe gifts that I have because I
have major gifts, psychicallyand intuitively.
(19:58):
Like I know that about myself,you know?
So that part of my self wasn'tlost.
I think it's important thatself was there when I met Lee,
that awareness of self.
So the first time I ever sawthis person, I brought a
neighbor.
I was living rurally before Isold my house, and I brought a
(20:19):
neighbor and my mother to dragbingo because I was like, my mom
will do anything like that.
She's super into having fun andwhatever new experience.
She's the best.
She's the best.
She's wonderful.
Yeah.
And my neighbor, Clyde, who isalso a queer person who I adore,
and we were like, This will behilarious.
Drag and bingo.
Great.
(20:39):
Let's do it.
So we went to Tumble RootBrewery, which is a big open
warehouse brewery here in SantaFe.
And I mean, I think the mostprofound thing for me, which Lee
was completely unaware of whenit happened, is that I walked
into this building and thereweren't a lot of people there
yet, but there were peoplemilling about, you know, and I
had some kind of massive,visceral, full body response to
(21:05):
somebody in the space.
And what was crazy is I didn'tknow at first the moment it
happened, I didn't know who itwas.
All I knew is that I had neverexperienced this before.
It was really weird.
And I didn't know how toarticulate it to anybody.
So I was just having thisexperience.
But like Clyde and my mom arelike, should we get burgers and
(21:25):
let's go get a drink?
What do you want?
I was just like, what ishappening right now?
And it felt like this heartopening.
It felt like, I don't know, itfelt like an expanded space
inside of me.
And I knew it was related toanother person in this space.
And so as I started toinvestigate, I kind of see Lee
in my periphery.
(21:46):
And Leah's like full drag,leather jacket, assless chaps,
full body tattoos, rainbow hair.
And I was like, that's theperson.
I'm pansexual.
I've known that for a while.
So for me, I feel really luckythat way because I'm just like
not caught up in like whatsomeone's junk is.
(22:09):
You know, I'm more just like,how does it feel to be with you?
And what kind of conversationcan we have?
And I have that too.
You know, I'm pretty cerebral.
So I want to know someone'sintellect and spirit.
So anyway, I was just like,okay, whoa.
So the whole time I'm havingthis fun night out with my mom
and my friend, I'm justcompletely having an internal,
(22:31):
what the fuck is going on?
Who is this person?
What am I supposed to do withthis information?
Because it's big.
It didn't feel like a smallshift inside of me.
And it also didn't feel likethe kind of, like my mom goes
like, obviously they have a hotass, you know?
I'm like, yeah, but it's morethan that.
Like, I think it's a littlemore than that.
(22:52):
This is absolutely true.
But in the moment, right?
She was like, well,
Lee King (22:56):
they're hot.
No moneymaker.
That's
Melissa (22:57):
the moneymaker.
That's the moneymaker.
Yeah, it's the othermoneymaker.
Jessica (23:01):
How do you feel about the fact that Christina's mom
thinks you have a
Melissa (23:04):
hot
Christina Miglino King (23:06):
ass?
Everybody, you would thinkLisa's ass is hot too.
It's hard not to.
It's a universal agreement.
It's a universal hot ass.
Lee King (23:14):
People like it.
Christina Miglino King (23:18):
I mean, he does a lot of stripping in
their drag.
So I think
Lee King (23:21):
I do drag less.
So I'm always taking my clothesoff, but not for a sexual
purpose.
It's more just to show bodies,you know, trans bodies and
celebrate trans bodies.
But there's nothing weird aboutit.
And if you have feelings, hey,question that.
Christina Miglino King (23:35):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lee King (23:36):
But yeah, mom liking my butt before meeting her.
was odd.
We had phone conversations onthat.
I'm like, yeah, okay, this isme with clothes on.
Christina Miglino King (23:45):
But yeah, so that night happened.
I didn't talk to Lee.
I mean, there was slightinteraction with my table when
they were performing becausethat was part of their
performance is kind ofinteracting with people.
Lee King (23:57):
Yeah, I actually messed with, I call it messing
with, Clyde.
And I want to get up on themand take the money and touch
people i can touch them theycan't touch me and she was
messing with something and wastotally oblivious that i was at
the table
Christina Miglino King (24:09):
i was not
Lee King (24:10):
oblivious i thought you said you oh no i
Christina Miglino King (24:12):
well insides were turning i was very
aware you were at the tablethere's nowhere else to be but
right there being like oh god i
Lee King (24:21):
was later when the show was over i was going around
to people oh
Christina Miglino King (24:25):
yeah my mom was like they're walking
over here and i was lookingonline for your next show And I
found it.
And then Clyde and I went tothat.
Wow, you were on it.
Well, I was just like, what doyou do?
I really didn't know.
You stalk them.
That's what you do.
You stalk them.
Melissa (24:41):
This is where you go against what you just said,
where you like initiate, youmake it happen, you go for the
thing you
Lee King (24:46):
want.
Because I'm not, you know, I'mjust like,
Christina Miglino King (24:49):
hey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were very passive the wholetime.
But like, to be fair, you cantalk about your experience
falling in love with me now.
But that experience was mine.
It wasn't mutual in the moment,you know, which is fine.
And I think stalking involvesmultiple days of like trying to
find someone.
This was like, I actually didgo out in the parking lot to
(25:12):
look for them but they were goneit was like they were there and
gone after they performed Ididn't see them because I
thought at least I would say hiwhy not like what have I got to
lose when something feels likethis in your life I just learned
to listen and not know what itmeans I was fully aware that Lee
could have been married orcould have been in multiple
relationships who knows you knowI didn't know.
(25:35):
And to be fair, Clyde hadmentioned this show already, The
Holiday Havoc Show atAlbuquerque Social Club, which
is a queer club in Albuquerque.
And that was something wewanted to go to.
And when I looked it up, youwere on the list of performers.
And I was like, well, what thehell?
We'll go and see what happens.
And I even thought, like, maybeit's a fluke.
Like, maybe I'll show up inthat space and I'll feel nothing
(25:57):
and we'll have a great night.
So I didn't feel nothing.
I felt weird.
and confused and I watched theshow and I happened to have one
drink there.
I think this is kind ofinteresting because I stopped
drinking after that night.
I had like one alcoholicbeverage and that was it.
But Clyde, after the show wasdone, was just like, just go
(26:20):
find them.
Go give them your phone number.
Who cares?
Just do it.
And I was like, okay.
And I've never done this.
I'm fairly confident in mylife.
Like I can do the things I needto do.
When it comes to romance, I waspetrified.
I was like, that's insane.
Who's going to want to take myphone number on a piece of
paper?
So I took out a $5 bill becauseI was like a stripper wants
(26:40):
money, right?
So I pushed.
So I'm totally kidding.
It's just what I had.
At least
Melissa (26:46):
get a 20.
Good Luke.
Christina Miglino King (26:50):
I didn't have one.
I have to go to the ATM realquick.
I need a larger bill for thisimportant moment.
It does draw attention.
I didn't know it was going tobe an important moment.
I knew it could be something.
That's all I knew, right?
So I went to the bar and Iasked for a pen.
And by the way, you can'treally write on dollar bills.
So it looks like I'm like, it'slike chicken scratching my
(27:13):
freaking number.
I'm like, they're not evengoing to be able to read this,
whatever.
You know, like carve it.
Yeah, right.
And I turn around, I don't seethem anywhere.
And Clyde was like, ask babyJesus, ask baby Jesus, because
somebody was dressed as babyJesus for one of their drag
numbers.
And so I had turned around andthis person was like in
(27:34):
swaddling clothes, right?
So I was like, baby Jesus, Ineed you to give Phantom Nips a
message for me.
And Ryder Cox was their dragname.
Ryder was like, I don't reallyknow them.
But I'll do my best.
So Ryder's like walking aroundtrying to find Lee.
And I was like, I got to getout of here.
I've done my thing.
I feel like I'm going to besick.
(27:54):
Let's go.
So we walk out.
And who's right there in theparking lot is like Lee with no
shirt on and a harness, aleather harness, talking to a
couple other people.
And then Ryder comes up behindme and grabs me and is like,
you're coming with me and bringsme right to Lee.
And is like, this is Christina.
She wants you to have hernumber.
Here's the number.
Lee King (28:15):
She wants to give you this.
Hi.
Yeah.
She wants to
Christina Miglino King (28:18):
give you this.
Yeah.
And Lee is so adorable because,well, you can talk about your
experience, but opens it up andis like, what?
Lee King (28:26):
What's happening?
Yeah, it
Christina Miglino King (28:28):
was just like so grounded.
Virgo, you know, it was justlike, huh.
And I'm just dying.
Then what happened?
Lee King (28:34):
Yeah, when I'm done with shows, I just kind of want
to get out of there.
I had a lot of props for theshow.
So I'm just loading my stuffand I'm getting stopped every
step of the way.
People wanting to talk to me.
So I was talking to anotherdrag king.
And then Ryder comes up to medragging this person who looks
mortified.
And hands me the $5 bill.
(28:54):
And it's like, wants to giveyou this.
Like, oh, thank you.
Okay.
Her number's on it.
What?
Oh, okay.
It is.
And I'm still confused, like,well, why?
Speaker 05 (29:05):
Because
Lee King (29:07):
a lot of the time, I'm like, well, why do you?
Okay.
And then slowly start thinking,oh, well, I was newly single.
And I make a point of tellingpeople my real name.
Maybe I shouldn't afterwards ifI'm going to establish a
relationship outside of drag.
It's like, when I'm notworking, my name is Lee.
And I told her I would text herthe next day.
And I did.
And pretty much that was thebeginning of the end of
(29:30):
singleness.
We went out on our first date.
She brought flowers, which Istill have dried out in the
living room.
That's a key with me.
Even though I'm masspresenting, you give me a
bouquet.
It was very sweet.
We had appetizers.
And geez, we did the lesbianU-Haul for the most part.
To let her house.
(29:52):
But we never really separatedafter that.
And I'm slow.
It wasn't instant for me.
It builds.
And I have to learn to trust.
And I think I'm still learningthat.
I had come out of a reallytraumatic relationship, a
long-term relationship.
And I vowed I'm not going to dothat to myself.
And I'm not going to do that toanother human being again.
(30:14):
As far as like when it's bad orsomething doesn't work, don't
stay in it or learn to have hardconversations and get past it.
I'm still learning that.
We do.
It's not all rainbows andbutterflies.
I'm hard to live with.
I'm...
very in my head and learning tolive with another person and
(30:35):
share your life has been amazingand a joy that I thought I'd
never have.
So yeah, I have my moments.
So yeah, we never left.
And then last June, cause she'sa pride baby.
I wanted to end pride withproposing to her at one of my
shows, the drag brunch.
(30:55):
And I had her brother, uh, Withher in the crowd, he had the
ring, and I did this song thatstill makes her cry.
Christina Miglino King (31:03):
Oh, my God.
Lee King (31:04):
I kept the $5 bill.
So when I did my stripping, Ihad it tucked in my kill that I
was going to strip out.
So it's like when I tore myshirt off, this is the best.
You can see the $5 billsticking out, and I wrote on it,
Christina, will you marry me?
And in pink, you know,lettering bright, it's bright
like me, her face, she's doingthe, I'm trying to read it.
(31:27):
You read it.
Since this is audio.
What are you doing?
You said that, Christina.
And it's hard to, like, not getthe smile.
You
Speaker 05 (31:36):
know what
Lee King (31:36):
else to say.
Yeah, she knew what was goingto happen then, and then I came
over, her brother handed me thering, and in front of the crowd,
she said yes.
It was
Christina Miglino King (31:43):
the best day of my life.
Lee King (31:45):
I mean, truly.
I knew that Christina was myperson, that I don't need, I
don't want anyone else.
Like I said, I'm not alwayseasy to live with, but we're
doing it together.
Melissa (31:53):
Nobody's easy to live with.
I'm like, this is a real humanrelationship
Lee King (31:57):
thing.
Drag is my life.
Yeah.
I think about it, live it 24-7for the most part.
So it's like drag was my life,but then Christina entered and
priorities and trying to make itall work and not caring as much
about, okay, well, we can't dothis, but I got you.
So maybe one day or maybenever, it doesn't really matter.
(32:18):
I got her and our three dogs.
Jessica (32:21):
There's a few things that I'd like to circle back and
touch on that you said that Ithought were really beautiful.
I am curious about, Why youtexted?
Like, why did you actuallyfollow up?
Because a lot of people mightget a phone number and be like,
ah, and not necessarily
Lee King (32:38):
follow through.
Okay, good point.
I actually received two numbersthat night.
Yeah, that's the irony.
A friend of mine was trying to,like, get me to date a friend
of theirs just for a hookup.
And that really...
It's not me.
That's not my style.
You know, if I'm going toinvest anything, it better be
something good.
She seemed nice.
(32:59):
And again, it was like shewas...
honest, sincere, and again,just terrified.
You could see it.
It's like, okay, this isn'tgoing to be like somebody that
wants to like use me forsomething.
It
Melissa (33:08):
felt sincere.
It felt sincere.
She didn't feel well-practicedin the art
Lee King (33:11):
of giving away her number.
And then the texting is like, Idon't call.
Everything is a text, you know,in this day and age for the
most part.
And then she actually still hasa better working car and picked
me up.
So I was like trapped in thecar with her.
Jessica (33:25):
You forced them into this.
You said so many beautifulthings about what I just think
relationships, And I reallyhonor that it does take time to
trust someone and to build thosefeelings.
What was it about Christinathat you experienced that
(33:46):
allowed you to surrender to whatyou had found with her?
Lee King (33:50):
What was a turning point for me?
It was when we had a hardconversation and she stayed and
she said, I'm not goinganywhere.
And for me, I've had a lot ofpeople close to me, you know,
leave throughout my life, evenlike losing my family, where I
(34:13):
just learned to be on my own andit was okay.
It wasn't okay, but I toldmyself it was.
And really believing her, andshe didn't.
She stayed.
She didn't abandon me.
And I realized, oh, I can bevulnerable to somebody.
Shit can hit the fan.
Things don't have to beperfect.
And they're still going to seeme.
(34:33):
I'm going to see them.
And we're still going to betogether.
And it's okay.
Everything is okay.
Even when all hell is breakingloose.
You don't have a lot of money.
Trans bills are being passed.
Right and left.
They're targeting us.
It's okay.
Because we have each other.
We'll make it through.
(34:55):
Somehow.
We'll make it through.
I don't have all the answers,but that's also okay.
We will figure it out somehow.
Yeah.
So she stayed.
She stayed.
So I want to stay with her.
Jessica (35:13):
What do you think the relationship has been teaching
you through having somebody showyou that they will stay?
Lee King (35:19):
Compromise.
I'm not always right.
Not.
A lot of the time I am.
But.
In life, in life.
I'm a Virgo.
If I speak it, there's usuallya reason behind it.
I won't say it.
Otherwise, I'll just shut up.
But it's the compromising andbending and just growing,
learning things about yourselfthrough another person, seeing
(35:42):
yourself through another person.
And that's interesting becauseI don't see what she sees in me.
But lucky me.
You know, it's watching hergrow and step into her power
again recently that she's tryingthings and exploring.
You know, that's a kick, youknow, because it's like I'm not,
(36:04):
I'm a peacock definitely, but Ido love to see her happy and
trying things that are outsideof her comfort zone and enjoying
it.
Unknown (36:14):
Yeah.
Melissa (36:15):
I wish I could hug you both.
Are you going to stay?
Like it literally is liketerrifying at such a cellular
(36:39):
level of can we make it throughthese hard things?
Can we have theseconversations?
Can we show each other theseparts of ourselves that feel so
sacred and scary?
And are you going to stay?
And I don't think it'snecessarily easier to leave, but
it can feel like the easieroption of like, Instead of
digging in deeper, what if wejust left?
(37:01):
And I didn't have to go therewith you.
I didn't have to risk puttingmy whole soul and heart on the
line with you.
And what I'm hearing and evenin my personal lived experience
of crossing this hardest fuckthreshold in my relationship is
the love that gets to becultivated in that is so much
more rich.
(37:21):
It's so much more secure andwonderful than the honeymoon
stage in the beginning when Whenyou're like, you are my person
and you're going to be by myside and I can really count on
that.
Like that's like a level ofsafety that I don't know that
many people actually get toexperience.
So it's really beautiful.
And I remember Christina.
Like crying quietly this wholetime over there.
(37:44):
I know.
I
Jessica (37:47):
mean, Leigh, I remember when Christina met you and I
remember how she spoke about youand how sure that she was right
from the get-go.
And I'm curious, Christina,because you took a leap of faith
and you gave this person anumber and you really didn't
know who they were.
What did you discover on thefirst date or in actually
(38:07):
beginning that relationship thataffirmed those feelings, that
hunch that you had?
What did you see that said, Iam, I'm staying?
Yeah.
Christina Miglino King (38:17):
I mean, it is such a good question.
And it's like in my body, it'shard to put words to it because
it was just such a physicalexperience when I had that first
moment with them.
I mean, honestly, my intuitionis really good.
I think since I was very young,I felt like I would find my
(38:38):
soulmate in this life.
But I also went through so muchhardship alone that I was like,
it's not going to happen forme.
And when I met Lee, I was notin a place of like, yeah, my
life is great and I'm going togo find my soulmate.
I really believe that in someway, at least for me, I'm a
Gemini.
Like we're very career drivenand passion forward with our
(39:01):
projects and our communities.
And like, I know that I'm happyalone.
And I'm so grateful I learnedthat before I met Lee, that I'm
so good on my own and I'm soindependent.
And I really had to clear awayso much in my life to see them.
To have that moment.
(39:23):
I mean, I'm not saying Iwouldn't have seen them if I had
still the business running.
But I don't think I would havegone to drag bingo.
You know, like I had so muchhappening in my little office in
my house alone on a hill.
I wasn't doing anything.
And so it's interesting becauseso much had to die.
So much had to leave me.
(39:44):
I had to grieve so much.
And then it was justinteresting timing.
Like when I met Lee, I had allthis space in my life.
And Lee deserves that space.
And so it was easy to see themand what they wanted.
And I remember one of our firstconversations, like bigger
conversations, I think we werehere at the house or something.
(40:07):
And Lee was like, I'm notgiving up drag.
And I was like, what?
I would never, ever want youto.
Like, what do you mean?
You know, this is before wedecided to be a couple.
And I was like, fuck no, you'llnever give up anything for me
ever.
We had moments that were reallybig for both of us, like big
(40:29):
moments that were like, huh,landed inside of you.
Oh, my God.
Okay.
I know for Lee, it was like Ididn't want them to change.
And I know what it's like whenyou fall in love quickly and
it's like, oh, my God, thisperson is my world now.
And I didn't mean to make Leemy world.
It's just I didn't have a lothappening in my life.
(40:49):
It was weird.
It was like this moment of justlike pause for me.
where there was all this spaceopen.
And that's a scary place,especially if you're like a
highly driven, you know,whatever.
You identify as your career,which I definitely did.
But I was just very much a yesfor them right away.
(41:10):
And it wasn't always easy.
There were moments that Iquestioned that, like, oh my
gosh, is this going to be toomuch?
Because as much as I love big,I also...
have my own wounds aroundliving with somebody and being
this close.
And will they stay and willthey be there?
And can I really trust?
And so there were lots ofmoments that I had that were
(41:31):
like, what am I doing?
Is this okay?
Am I going to be okay?
And I just kept listening to mygut.
And the underlying message hasjust been like, you can stay.
Like, it's going to be OK.
You know, like that's been theconstant with us.
Weirdly, because it's neverbeen like that before.
You know what I mean?
It's like you don't see itcoming and then it's right
(41:52):
there.
I know, Jessica Rose, yourecently had this experience.
It's like you're like, wow, OK,my whole life just changed.
Yeah.
And how beautiful is that?
Because when I was single forso long, I just thought, okay,
I'll just put my love intosomething else.
Because I have a massivecapacity for love.
That's my human design.
You know, it's like, that's whyI'm here.
(42:14):
So like on some level, this isactually part of my design.
Like I get to have the love ofmy life in this life.
And Lee's human design is like,I'm going to completely die and
come back to life multipletimes in this life.
And I'm going to be thebiggest, brightest phoenix of
them all.
It's such a trip.
(42:35):
Don't you have
Jessica (42:36):
a phoenix tattoo?
Do I remember?
Oh, they're all.
Lee King (42:39):
Yeah,
Jessica (42:39):
it's so cool.
Yeah.
On the cross of the phoenix.
You have like a bunch ofphoenixes.
Yeah.
Lee King (42:44):
Amelia.
Amelia does a lot of stuff forme.
I don't even know what I haveanymore.
Jessica (42:49):
Christina, you kind of touched on this, so I just
wonder if we can solidify it.
Maybe not because it might betoo soon.
You're still in the becoming.
But I'm curious in all of thisexperience of becoming and what
you're discovering now in thisnew phase of life.
What do you think that is?
What do you think you'rediscovering?
here with Lee that your oldlife couldn't have held space
(43:09):
for?
Can you see why you had to letit go?
Yeah,
Christina Miglino King (43:13):
I mean, there's a level of vulnerability
when you're with somebody thatisn't just a person you're
dating temporarily.
And what's interesting is Isort of I'm a very authentic
person, I think.
At least I always try for that.
But I have such a deep spiritand such a big heart and I'm
(43:33):
such an empath that it hurts.
It's physically painful to bethis person in the world.
And so to not have somethingelse that's like a business or
to not have something so big, tonot have hundreds of people
that I'm trying to split myselfinto hundreds of parts to be
(43:53):
there for and have one person.
It's a lot.
And to be honest, I get why Leewas like, whoa, dude, I think
that's a really healthyresponse.
And to be at the beginning ofthe relationship.
Yeah.
And to be fair, I'm also a Iknow myself better now.
I'm older.
I'm not in my 20s where I justgive everything to the person
(44:16):
I'm with or, you know, make themmy whole world.
It's not that.
I did happen to have a lot ofspace for them, which was really
beautiful.
But that also created likethese deep conversations and
these levels of trust that if Iwas in my business, I can tell
you right now, even if we metand started dating, that
journey, who knows what wouldhave happened because this
(44:39):
relationship deserves more.
Speaker 05 (44:41):
And
Christina Miglino King (44:42):
I don't know if I would have known that.
had I had my heart split in amillion places.
Yeah.
If that makes sense, you know,it's like.
Jessica (44:50):
It does.
It does to me.
Melissa (44:52):
It's very resonant.
I'm currently in a season,well, I kind of always am, where
my heart is given to a lot, alot of people.
And so it really, it reallylands.
And I think one of the manythings that I would love for you
to expand on, because throughthe NOVA, which is the
communities that I run, peoplethat come into our community are
(45:13):
either let's say on the otherside, like where you are right
now, right?
They've gone through thisexperience, this dark night of
the soul.
It's like, I don't want to keepgoing the way that I have been
going.
And now they're on a more soulaligned path.
Or they're often in the middle.
(45:34):
They're usually fuckingterrified because the voice of
The whisper, the scream insideis getting so loud that they can
no longer ignore it, right?
Like you were saying, I wentyears past burnout.
And that is where I see peoplea lot of time in the middle of
that.
(45:54):
And so I know you spoke to thisin the stories that you've
shared, but what do you say topeople?
Like if you were in a room fullof people that are like, I'm
fucking terrified.
I feel like my life needs to bedismantled.
I don't know what to do.
What
Christina Miglino King (46:07):
do you say to them?
The only person that you havetruly in this life is yourself.
So the only person that's worthlosing it all for is yourself.
And you can't really, I mean,I've gone back and forth so many
times, like, should I not closemy business?
I didn't really have a choice.
I had no money left.
(46:27):
The last thing I ever wanted todo was be in a place where I
couldn't pay the people I lovedwho were helping me with my
business.
So fuck that.
I think sometimes the leap offaith is really just trusting
that you're going to landsomewhere.
You're going to land somewhereand you might land somewhere
completely naked with nothingand you'll learn something from
(46:47):
that.
It's all learning.
And to be honest, I wish Icould say that it's only been
one time that I've had this hugeego death and, you know, lost
things.
No, for me, and I think it'sdifferent for everyone, I have
done this multiple times in thislife and it is terrifying and
hurts every time.
And there's nowhere else to goat a certain point.
(47:08):
What I know will happen is if Ikeep doing the thing and I'm
burning out, it will becomebigger.
I will put my body throughmore.
I'm still figuring out healthissues that are from me ignoring
that part long enough.
And that's true.
If you're going through hell,keep going.
Like, just keep going.
Everything changes.
Melissa (47:30):
Well, you're speaking to the word trust, and that has
kind of been a thread through somuch of this conversation,
trust.
And when you're going throughhealth, trust is the hardest
thing.
Do you feel like it's gotten, Imean, there's almost like a
benefit to going through itmultiple times because you're
like, okay, this sucks.
It's painful.
It's awful.
And has that trust muscle beenbuilt up?
(47:52):
Do you notice that when youwent through it this past time,
having gone through it indifferent iterations before,
that even when it sucked, youstill had that trust that like I
don't know how this is gonna gobut I at least trust that I'm
gonna land somewhere I
Christina Miglino King (48:05):
mean I wish I could say that like every
second I felt that way nothat'd be delusional I mean it
really is it vacillates andsometimes I really don't know
because the trust builds fromyou feeling like you don't know
and then the universe is like doyou want to fall in love
instead okay fuck what that'swhat I'm expected to do now what
(48:27):
the hell you know but but Leebut Lee Lee didn't say no to me
either.
And Lee didn't leave.
And I was not in a super stableplace.
And for like a Virgo earthyperson to be like, oh, sure, a
person who's leaving theirbusiness, losing their house,
doesn't know how they're goingto make money.
That is a risk.
I mean, granted, you're olderthan me.
(48:49):
You own this house.
You have what you need to feelsomewhat secure on your own.
But today we live in a tougheconomy.
Like if you have a partner,you're so lucky because it's two
of you trying to make ends meetand make shit happen you know
it's tough out there and so idon't know i don't know is the
answer i don't know if it getseasier you know what i mean it's
(49:12):
almost like the thing getsharder but the payoff gets even
bigger which is wild
Melissa (49:17):
that's resonant what's like deeper levels of letting
go it's like shedding thesebigger and bigger layers each
time around and the more youland on your feet the more and i
get it for sure in the middleof You're like, I don't trust
any of this shit.
This is terrible.
Where is this going?
Please show me the answers.
But I love just seeing evenhaving you be on here before
(49:42):
where you are now and just thereal, raw honesty of the
process.
Right.
And for both of you, of course,no, it wasn't easy.
But look what becomes possible.
Look what we can create when wego to those places within
ourselves.
Jessica (49:55):
I'd love Lee to answer it as well, because you have
also taken a lot of risks to bewho you are.
So for those listening who arein the fear of really stepping
out in their truth and theirauthenticity, what would you say
for them?
Lee King (50:10):
I'm in recovery.
So I had 30 years of activeaddiction.
I got sober in 2018, clean andsober.
So it really is one day at atime, sometimes one minute.
at a time.
If you can, hold on.
You don't know what's aroundthat corner.
(50:31):
You really don't.
And even before meetingChristina and before doing drag,
I attempted suicide.
I did not want to enter into2023.
I had no plans.
I am a failed suicide attempt.
And I would not have what Ihave today if If I had
(50:53):
succeeded.
And I know for some people thatis the answer.
They just can't do it anymore.
And that's valid.
But you don't really know whatis around that corner.
You don't know the future.
You can't predict it.
And if you can just get throughthe hard points, it does get
easier.
(51:14):
It really does.
And acceptance.
Acceptance of some things.
Holding on to something foreverand holding anger and
resentment eats at you.
If you're capable of forgiveyourself first and then forgive
others, that's huge to be happy.
And I'm bad.
I can hold a grudge.
I can hold a grudge bad.
(51:35):
But I realize now this is notgood for me and I need to let it
go.
Even if I have to do, like yousaid, a death of something, an
ego death.
For me, it's sports.
I got drag.
I got an amazing wife.
But this year, my athleticcareer has changed due to being
(51:55):
trans, non-binary.
I am one of those people thathas been kind of pushed out.
We had a meeting recently, andhopefully that will change.
But seeing how people reactedto me being myself and And
finding out the truth haschanged it for me, where do I
want to put myself in thatsituation?
I want to put her in thatsituation where we go to games.
(52:16):
Maybe not, but it's also, Ikeep saying the word okay.
That's the thing.
If that does change for me, Ihave other things.
So my life isn't built aroundone aspect of life, sports,
which it was, just like it'snot.
just drag so if you can expandyour life and meet different
(52:41):
people and do different thingsthat also is helpful but just
hold on work through the toughmoments ask which is so hard for
help even if it's just sittingin a room Yeah.
The only drag show I have beento was
Jessica (53:15):
with Christina in Palm Springs.
Yeah.
And it was one of the mostjoyous experiences of my life.
I was floored by how special itwas.
And I just wanted to thank youboth for being here and being so
honest and vulnerable andsharing your story, but also for
(53:38):
turning that hardship and thatpain and your own struggle
towards authenticity andself-love and turning it into a
gift.
For people, you really bringand spread so much joy.
And I just have a lot ofgratitude for you both and how
much you give of yourselves andhave been taking a stand for so
(54:01):
many people who aren't beinggiven a voice.
So thank you.
Such
Melissa (54:03):
an honor to get to reconnect with you, Christina.
Beautiful to spend time withyou.
And Leigh, so wonderful to meetyou.
Thank you for being here.
Christina Miglino King (54:10):
Thank you for having us.
Yeah, it's been a beautifulexperience to get to talk with
you guys.
Jessica (54:18):
I'm just so happy for you and your love.
Love you.
Love you so much.
See
Lee King (54:25):
you at the wedding.
Hmm.
Speaker 03 (00:02):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
Speaker 07 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by
passion, by integrity, then Ireally do think that I know who
I am.
Speaker 06 (00:21):
There is a peace that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not going to come to theend of my life and be like, I
didn't live the life I was meantto live.
Jessica (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the idea This is the Inner
Melissa (00:40):
Rebel Podcast.
Jessica (00:50):
Christina Maglino-King And when you first joined us,
(01:23):
you were in the depths ofburnout and letting go of an old
identity and a business, awhole life.
And now you are in a chapter ofreinventing yourself and newly
married to the love of yourlife.
And so we're excited to haveyou back because there's been so
many changes and I've beenwitness to a lot of those
changes and your process throughthese different dimensions of
(01:47):
self.
And I'm really excited to sharewith our listeners today.
And we are also excited to haveLee Ignatius King.
Are you also known as PhantomNips on stage?
Is that?
Lee King (01:58):
Yes, that's my drag king name.
Jessica (02:01):
Your drag king name is Phantom Nips.
You're an award-winningnon-binary transmasculine drag
king based in Santa Fe, NewMexico.
You live your life proudly as anon-binary trans masc person
who believes that all bodies arebeautiful and that we should
all live freely as our authenticselves.
You're also the recipient ofthe 2024 New Mexico In
Lee King (02:22):
the running for this year, too.
Amazing.
Jessica (02:26):
And you placed second as a world champion in the
Highland Games as an athlete.
So through your drag-esqueperformances and your daily
existence, you challenge normsaround beauty, gender, and
identity.
And I am so happy to have youwith us today and have the two
of you with us today.
I'm so excited to get to meet
Melissa (02:44):
you.
I'm really boring.
I don't think that's remotelytrue.
Not even a little bit.
If you're boring, then I don'tknow what that makes me.
So I really got to up my gameif that's what boring is.
Jessica (02:57):
I have so many questions about how you two met
and I want to hear your story.
But the first question that weask our guests is what is your
relationship to your innerrebel?
So I would love to offer thatto
Christina Miglino King (03:12):
both of you.
Is
Lee King (03:13):
there an inner?
Jessica (03:15):
Yeah,
Christina Miglino King (03:16):
right.
I was going to say Lee showstheir rebel all over the place.
place.
Jessica (03:21):
You're an inner-outer rebel.
I'm curious what your journeyhas been with that rebel.
Lee King (03:25):
Wow.
Inner rebel.
Yeah.
My mom used to call it myartistic personality.
Yeah.
That's the nice way to say it.
It's like I always questionedthings.
And I was raised Catholic, soyou weren't supposed to do that.
I think it was more, the rebelis rebellious, just in all
directions when I was younger,without a focus.
And now I realize that I canuse that to help community and
(03:52):
to speak out for others thatmaybe
Speaker 05 (03:54):
don't
Lee King (03:55):
want that target on them.
And I'm in my...
Can I swear on the show?
Speaker 05 (04:00):
Yeah.
Always.
Lee King (04:01):
Yes, absolutely.
I call it my fuck it 50s.
Speaker 05 (04:03):
Yeah.
Lee King (04:04):
It is a magical moment when you cross over into the
50s where you really...
don't care as much about whatother people are thinking about
you.
You just want to do right byyourself, by your family, by
your friends and your communityand whatever that takes.
So it's not always pretty.
It's not always, what's theword?
(04:26):
How would you describe me?
Christina Miglino King (04:28):
How would I describe you?
You just described yourselfperfectly, but you're a badass.
And yeah, you're not, youdon't, like fear is not a way
that you, live your life youknow you don't yeah not that
we're not afraid of things oryou're not
Lee King (04:44):
yeah definitely fear is a factor especially in 2025
you know every morning I wake upand start doom scrolling but
it's working past that fear Ithink I when I was younger I
would be paralyzed by it nowit's like I hate it but I know
that it won't do myself orChristina or my community any
(05:08):
good If I just sit here and donothing, I can never change
things if I don't do somethingabout it myself first.
So I put the pressure on me andthen the rest of the world.
Melissa (05:21):
Before we have Christina answer the question, I
grew up in a very conservativeChristian household, so I can
relate to the do not questionanything mentality.
Was this part of you nurturedin your family of origin or were
you kind of fighting againstwhat they expected you to be?
(05:43):
Were they nurturing to thispart of you that was challenging
the status quo?
Was there some part of yourfamily that allowed you to be
you or was it looked different?
down upon and they kept tryingto put you back in the box that
they wanted you to be in.
I
Lee King (06:00):
think they eventually gave up.
And then they passed a longtime ago in 2010.
And they didn't get to see whatI have become.
But it was stages of it.
I mean, they let me be an artmajor, go to art school.
Like I said, the term wasartistic temperament.
(06:23):
That was, it's like, it's okay,leave special.
Just go with it.
But I just always felt kind oflike in the company of their
friends, they were a little bitashamed.
So I would be more quiet aroundcertain groups of people.
Jessica (06:38):
There was a time that you did care more about what
other people thought of you.
And I'm wondering what helpedthat shift.
Was there a defining moment?
Was it just evolving over time?
How did...
Did you reach a point where youdecided it doesn't matter
anymore?
I'm just going to be myself.
Lee King (06:56):
After breast cancer and I had top surgery, breast
cancer gave me the body I alwayswanted.
I never thought I would do topsurgery.
I thought I would just staypretty much closeted my entire
life and just go with it.
And then cancer.
Cool.
Had to deal with it.
So it was going to be one side.
We did the wink, wink, nudge,nudge to the surgeon and we got
(07:18):
both.
Once I got rid of my breasts,which was my dysmorphia, then a
year later, I startedtestosterone.
And just coming into my bodyand myself and being and seeing
the person that I always saw inmy head, in reality, in the
(07:42):
mirror, gave me the confidenceto to really not care anymore
about if people found out who iwas so and it's a fight it's
stressful you know i'm passingas a man now even though i don't
identify as a man i am makingit a point of correcting people
(08:03):
that i am non-binary becausethen People won't learn that
there is the other.
There are other genders.
It really does exist, folks.
You know, I've tried to fitinto that box too.
It's like, well, maybe becauseI look more masculine, I should
be a man.
I don't feel that way.
I'm not a woman.
(08:23):
I'm not a man.
Somewhere in between.
All of it, none of it.
And it's okay.
It's okay.
That's what I want to teachpeople.
It's like, it's not a threat.
It's not going to change yourlife.
Me changing mine ain't going tochange yours.
Yeah.
Jessica (08:36):
I would love to just go back to that moment.
Thank you so much for havingme.
I feel like there's some kindof full integration that must
(08:59):
occur between all of thesedifferent parts of you that
would never come together untilthat moment.
Never be.
Yeah.
Lee King (09:06):
I mean, there's been moments like the first time
walking out in public without ashirt on.
That's like a scary, you know,what's going to happen?
You know, are you going to getarrested for something?
Unknown (09:17):
Yeah.
Lee King (09:18):
Wow, this is cool.
Feeling the sun on your chestand your back, which is so
stupid.
Because again, my platform isbodies.
We should all be able to walkaround.
Yeah.
You know, nothing's going tohappen.
Nobody should be doing anythingnasty or naughty to another
human being without theirconsent.
But starting the changes, likemy voice changed.
(09:41):
That was a happy surprise.
I didn't think I'd like that.
So now I sound like a gay man.
What else?
Slowly, my face has kind ofchanged, noticing little things,
people that haven't seen me ina while, noticing things.
First time I was called senorat Backroad Pizza where we work.
(10:02):
I was like, hey, senor.
I was like, I'm senor nowrather than dude or bro.
That was cool.
I'm also trying not to takeoffense when people do say Well,
I hate the word ma'am.
Who doesn't?
It's like ma'am or miss, but ifI'm gendered the other way, I'm
like, oh, okay, cool.
So I'm kind of like fluid.
(10:22):
That's nice.
There's little surprises everyday of people notice.
And then doing drag.
Drag is affirming in itself.
People like me, and that'snice.
I
Melissa (10:36):
think it's such a beautiful testament to the
iterative process of being seenfor who you are, which...
I believe every human that's onthat journey has these
bite-sized moments.
I love that you're describinglike, oh, I was referred to as
this and then I had this moment.
And becoming the embodiment ofwho you are isn't an overnight
(10:57):
thing.
You don't wake up one day andyou're like, I have arrived.
It's just such a devotionmoment.
a devotion to being you and Ithink when we find a community
that can reflect back to us andeven extract it further it's
like that permission and safetylike I can exist here safely as
(11:22):
me and then what else isavailable for me to be even more
expressed even more me andthere is a group of people
that's like yeah we love youexactly as you are you don't
need to be any different and Imean, I know our journeys are
obviously very different, butI've needed those people that
I've discerned as safe to beable to have that witnessing to
(11:43):
just say like, hey, this is whatI see in you.
This is what I love in you.
And please continue to be that.
So I'm just really present tothat as you're sharing your
story of becoming because it'sjust so beautiful, the feeling
of belonging and being seen.
Jessica (11:56):
And Christina, I know you've been on your own version,
a different version of thisprocess of becoming.
So I'm going back to thatquestion.
What is your relationshipcurrently to your inner rebel?
We talked a little bit about itin that first episode, but
you've changed a lot since then.
So I'd love to hear.
Oh, gosh.
Christina Miglino King (12:16):
What is it?
You know, I mean, there's sortof a, we mentioned like the fuck
it 50s and I'll be 40 thisyear.
And there's a degree of thatfor 40s.
It's probably not as liberatedas the 50s, you know.
I think as we get older, thatbecoming unfolds naturally in
some way.
I think that's the naturaltendency for human beings, I
(12:38):
think, maybe.
So there is definitely anelement of like, oh yeah, no,
I'm exhausted.
So I don't care if you like meor not.
You know, like there's a levelof like, I'm so done with
another way of saying it islike, is reaching for what I
want.
Okay, that sounds like I don'thave any like desire to get what
(13:00):
I want.
I have lots of desire in me tohave the life that I want and to
be who I want to be.
But this year in particular hasshown me manifesting something
is not about It's not about likeI have to go and grasp
everything.
I feel like that's actuallylike a very colonial way.
(13:20):
I mean, I'm a white person.
I think that a lot of us thatlook like me, we naturally
think, oh, I just go like be thefastest and the quickest.
And I have to stay up thelongest and not rest and not
sleep and not be able tofunction and be like sick half
the time, but still going.
And then I can have what Iwant.
And I think that's reallysilly.
(13:40):
Now that I've had my lifetime,this 40 years of studying energy
and energy medicine, it's likeactually if I just be it right
now, I'm going to just draw itto me.
That's easier.
Like I'm tired.
Like that's how I feel, youknow?
And I think that is rebelliousbecause it's rebellious
(14:03):
thinking.
It's like, I don't have to buyinto the fact that I can't have
multiple careers in my life orthat I can't take a couple years
to work at a pizza shop andmake minimum wage so that I can
have some resource inside of meto listen to what is next and
how I can best serve the planetnow, you know?
(14:26):
So I really am in a rebirthtime.
It's been several years.
And by the way, it's okay if ittakes time.
Well, it always does.
Melissa (14:36):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And it's painful sometimes too,you know, whatever the, I mean,
we're always in the in-between,but it goes back to what you
said that it's like, it has tohappen overnight.
It has to be in a Totally.
Right.
It seems like you were in thatbig transition of switching from
(15:12):
I have to generate everythingto I can allow it to come to me.
Christina Miglino King (15:17):
Yeah, I mean, then I was devastated
still about that understanding.
I felt like the wool wasfinally...
Like, I didn't have my blinderson anymore and I realized the
truth about something here, likeabout the energy of things and
that...
yeah, that I don't have to doit alone.
(15:37):
And all the pushing in mybusiness wasn't that helpful
anyway.
And so many things.
And I had a great business andJessica Rose and Melissa, you
were both part of it.
You know, it was a beautifulcommunity for some time.
And I always kind of knew thatlike it wasn't sustainable the
way it was forever, especiallywith me being the Like I love
(16:01):
being a leader.
I think it's a beautiful thing.
But the truth of leadership isreally like to create many
leaders around you so thatyou're all leading together.
And I think we had that attimes.
But I didn't know how toreframe things to be like that
in a business.
And quite honestly, I worked acouple years past my burnout.
So I was so far gone by thetime that I shut the doors that
(16:25):
I had to let go of everything Ihad.
I let go of my home.
I let go of everything, myland.
And it was like, it wasinteresting to experience
building, you know, inentrepreneurship, it's like,
build it, build it, build it.
And it's like, I alsoexperienced the complete
collapse of everything.
And also that wasn't overnight.
It's not like, oh my God, itwas a tragedy and everything was
(16:46):
lost.
It's like, no, this is life.
This is how energy works.
Everything grows and eventuallyexperiences its full potential
and then it dies and it goesback into the earth and it gets
recomposted.
That's everything, you know?
But yeah, that was terrifying.
I remember when you guys askedme to do an interview and I was
like, why would you want tointerview me?
(17:06):
Like, I have a hot mess.
I have no idea who I am.
Everything I thought I knew isgone.
But that's actually, that's themajor ego deaths that we have
to, if we're lucky enough tosurvive them, we learn so much
from that.
We learn more about life inthat experience than I think
(17:26):
pretty much anything else.
And it's devastating.
It's devastating.
I can cry about it right now ifI want to, because it's so,
it's still right there in myheart, you know, what I lost,
what it feels like was lost, youknow,
Jessica (17:39):
but it's still there.
I remember at the time yousaying that, why would you want
to have me on now?
But for me, I remember thinkingit was the bravest thing I had
ever seen anyone do.
It was so brave.
It was so honest.
It was so true to yourself.
(17:59):
I knew no one who would havethat commitment to self, that
self-awareness and trust that toknow this isn't working and
it's okay if I let it all go andjust be born again and see what
happens.
And so many of us are asked todo that in our lives, but very
(18:20):
few do it so gracefully.
Not enough it felt gracefully.
I don't think it felt graceful.
A tornado sweeping you up.
I don't think internally itfelt graceful.
But it really was.
It was deliberate.
It was very intentional.
And I'm really excited to sharewhere it led.
Speaker 05 (18:41):
And I
Jessica (18:42):
do remember, yeah, you shut down the business and
you're like, I'm working at apizza shop now.
Lee King (18:49):
Best pizza in Santa Fe, though.
Jessica (18:51):
I've heard that and I can't wait to try it.
But I remember just being soproud of you and thought it was
the coolest thing ever, eventhough it was so hard.
And I knew it was reallypainful.
I knew all the things that youwere going through.
But then let's flash forward alittle bit in this process, in
this time.
Can you share how the two ofyou met?
Christina Miglino King (19:10):
Yeah.
Do you want?
Lee King (19:11):
Go for it, babe.
Let's start.
Christina Miglino King (19:14):
Okay.
So for me, I was...
obsessed with my business.
My business was my partner.
Like I didn't do a lot ofdating.
There was occasional dating.
I mean, I was with somebodywhen I started my business and I
left them.
When I left Washington, we hadseparated and then I was alone
for about five years and Ireally didn't, I wasn't going
(19:36):
out a lot.
I mean, it was COVID too.
We were online and that's whatI did.
And then once I was shuttingdown the business and
everything, I mean, I wascompletely lost.
and confused about thedirection of my life.
I mean, I still knew who I wasand I knew, I just want to say
this, like I never lost track ofthe gifts that I have because I
have major gifts, psychicallyand intuitively.
(19:58):
Like I know that about myself,you know?
So that part of my self wasn'tlost.
I think it's important thatself was there when I met Lee,
that awareness of self.
So the first time I ever sawthis person, I brought a
neighbor.
I was living rurally before Isold my house, and I brought a
(20:19):
neighbor and my mother to dragbingo because I was like, my mom
will do anything like that.
She's super into having fun andwhatever new experience.
She's the best.
She's the best.
She's wonderful.
Yeah.
And my neighbor, Clyde, who isalso a queer person who I adore,
and we were like, This will behilarious.
Drag and bingo.
Great.
(20:39):
Let's do it.
So we went to Tumble RootBrewery, which is a big open
warehouse brewery here in SantaFe.
And I mean, I think the mostprofound thing for me, which Lee
was completely unaware of whenit happened, is that I walked
into this building and thereweren't a lot of people there
yet, but there were peoplemilling about, you know, and I
had some kind of massive,visceral, full body response to
(21:05):
somebody in the space.
And what was crazy is I didn'tknow at first the moment it
happened, I didn't know who itwas.
All I knew is that I had neverexperienced this before.
It was really weird.
And I didn't know how toarticulate it to anybody.
So I was just having thisexperience.
But like Clyde and my mom arelike, should we get burgers and
(21:25):
let's go get a drink?
What do you want?
I was just like, what ishappening right now?
And it felt like this heartopening.
It felt like, I don't know, itfelt like an expanded space
inside of me.
And I knew it was related toanother person in this space.
And so as I started toinvestigate, I kind of see Lee
in my periphery.
(21:46):
And Leah's like full drag,leather jacket, assless chaps,
full body tattoos, rainbow hair.
And I was like, that's theperson.
I'm pansexual.
I've known that for a while.
So for me, I feel really luckythat way because I'm just like
not caught up in like whatsomeone's junk is.
(22:09):
You know, I'm more just like,how does it feel to be with you?
And what kind of conversationcan we have?
And I have that too.
You know, I'm pretty cerebral.
So I want to know someone'sintellect and spirit.
So anyway, I was just like,okay, whoa.
So the whole time I'm havingthis fun night out with my mom
and my friend, I'm justcompletely having an internal,
(22:31):
what the fuck is going on?
Who is this person?
What am I supposed to do withthis information?
Because it's big.
It didn't feel like a smallshift inside of me.
And it also didn't feel likethe kind of, like my mom goes
like, obviously they have a hotass, you know?
I'm like, yeah, but it's morethan that.
Like, I think it's a littlemore than that.
(22:52):
This is absolutely true.
But in the moment, right?
She was like, well,
Lee King (22:56):
they're hot.
No moneymaker.
That's
Melissa (22:57):
the moneymaker.
That's the moneymaker.
Yeah, it's the othermoneymaker.
Jessica (23:01):
How do you feel about the fact that Christina's mom
thinks you have a
Melissa (23:04):
hot
Christina Miglino King (23:06):
ass?
Everybody, you would thinkLisa's ass is hot too.
It's hard not to.
It's a universal agreement.
It's a universal hot ass.
Lee King (23:14):
People like it.
Christina Miglino King (23:18):
I mean, he does a lot of stripping in
their drag.
So I think
Lee King (23:21):
I do drag less.
So I'm always taking my clothesoff, but not for a sexual
purpose.
It's more just to show bodies,you know, trans bodies and
celebrate trans bodies.
But there's nothing weird aboutit.
And if you have feelings, hey,question that.
Christina Miglino King (23:35):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lee King (23:36):
But yeah, mom liking my butt before meeting her.
was odd.
We had phone conversations onthat.
I'm like, yeah, okay, this isme with clothes on.
Christina Miglino King (23:45):
But yeah, so that night happened.
I didn't talk to Lee.
I mean, there was slightinteraction with my table when
they were performing becausethat was part of their
performance is kind ofinteracting with people.
Lee King (23:57):
Yeah, I actually messed with, I call it messing
with, Clyde.
And I want to get up on themand take the money and touch
people i can touch them theycan't touch me and she was
messing with something and wastotally oblivious that i was at
the table
Christina Miglino King (24:09):
i was not
Lee King (24:10):
oblivious i thought you said you oh no i
Christina Miglino King (24:12):
well insides were turning i was very
aware you were at the tablethere's nowhere else to be but
right there being like oh god i
Lee King (24:21):
was later when the show was over i was going around
to people oh
Christina Miglino King (24:25):
yeah my mom was like they're walking
over here and i was lookingonline for your next show And I
found it.
And then Clyde and I went tothat.
Wow, you were on it.
Well, I was just like, what doyou do?
I really didn't know.
You stalk them.
That's what you do.
You stalk them.
Melissa (24:41):
This is where you go against what you just said,
where you like initiate, youmake it happen, you go for the
thing you
Lee King (24:46):
want.
Because I'm not, you know, I'mjust like,
Christina Miglino King (24:49):
hey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were very passive the wholetime.
But like, to be fair, you cantalk about your experience
falling in love with me now.
But that experience was mine.
It wasn't mutual in the moment,you know, which is fine.
And I think stalking involvesmultiple days of like trying to
find someone.
This was like, I actually didgo out in the parking lot to
(25:12):
look for them but they were goneit was like they were there and
gone after they performed Ididn't see them because I
thought at least I would say hiwhy not like what have I got to
lose when something feels likethis in your life I just learned
to listen and not know what itmeans I was fully aware that Lee
could have been married orcould have been in multiple
relationships who knows you knowI didn't know.
(25:35):
And to be fair, Clyde hadmentioned this show already, The
Holiday Havoc Show atAlbuquerque Social Club, which
is a queer club in Albuquerque.
And that was something wewanted to go to.
And when I looked it up, youwere on the list of performers.
And I was like, well, what thehell?
We'll go and see what happens.
And I even thought, like, maybeit's a fluke.
Like, maybe I'll show up inthat space and I'll feel nothing
(25:57):
and we'll have a great night.
So I didn't feel nothing.
I felt weird.
and confused and I watched theshow and I happened to have one
drink there.
I think this is kind ofinteresting because I stopped
drinking after that night.
I had like one alcoholicbeverage and that was it.
But Clyde, after the show wasdone, was just like, just go
(26:20):
find them.
Go give them your phone number.
Who cares?
Just do it.
And I was like, okay.
And I've never done this.
I'm fairly confident in mylife.
Like I can do the things I needto do.
When it comes to romance, I waspetrified.
I was like, that's insane.
Who's going to want to take myphone number on a piece of
paper?
So I took out a $5 bill becauseI was like a stripper wants
(26:40):
money, right?
So I pushed.
So I'm totally kidding.
It's just what I had.
At least
Melissa (26:46):
get a 20.
Good Luke.
Christina Miglino King (26:50):
I didn't have one.
I have to go to the ATM realquick.
I need a larger bill for thisimportant moment.
It does draw attention.
I didn't know it was going tobe an important moment.
I knew it could be something.
That's all I knew, right?
So I went to the bar and Iasked for a pen.
And by the way, you can'treally write on dollar bills.
So it looks like I'm like, it'slike chicken scratching my
(27:13):
freaking number.
I'm like, they're not evengoing to be able to read this,
whatever.
You know, like carve it.
Yeah, right.
And I turn around, I don't seethem anywhere.
And Clyde was like, ask babyJesus, ask baby Jesus, because
somebody was dressed as babyJesus for one of their drag
numbers.
And so I had turned around andthis person was like in
(27:34):
swaddling clothes, right?
So I was like, baby Jesus, Ineed you to give Phantom Nips a
message for me.
And Ryder Cox was their dragname.
Ryder was like, I don't reallyknow them.
But I'll do my best.
So Ryder's like walking aroundtrying to find Lee.
And I was like, I got to getout of here.
I've done my thing.
I feel like I'm going to besick.
(27:54):
Let's go.
So we walk out.
And who's right there in theparking lot is like Lee with no
shirt on and a harness, aleather harness, talking to a
couple other people.
And then Ryder comes up behindme and grabs me and is like,
you're coming with me and bringsme right to Lee.
And is like, this is Christina.
She wants you to have hernumber.
Here's the number.
Lee King (28:15):
She wants to give you this.
Hi.
Yeah.
She wants to
Christina Miglino King (28:18):
give you this.
Yeah.
And Lee is so adorable because,well, you can talk about your
experience, but opens it up andis like, what?
Lee King (28:26):
What's happening?
Yeah, it
Christina Miglino King (28:28):
was just like so grounded.
Virgo, you know, it was justlike, huh.
And I'm just dying.
Then what happened?
Lee King (28:34):
Yeah, when I'm done with shows, I just kind of want
to get out of there.
I had a lot of props for theshow.
So I'm just loading my stuffand I'm getting stopped every
step of the way.
People wanting to talk to me.
So I was talking to anotherdrag king.
And then Ryder comes up to medragging this person who looks
mortified.
And hands me the $5 bill.
(28:54):
And it's like, wants to giveyou this.
Like, oh, thank you.
Okay.
Her number's on it.
What?
Oh, okay.
It is.
And I'm still confused, like,well, why?
Speaker 05 (29:05):
Because
Lee King (29:07):
a lot of the time, I'm like, well, why do you?
Okay.
And then slowly start thinking,oh, well, I was newly single.
And I make a point of tellingpeople my real name.
Maybe I shouldn't afterwards ifI'm going to establish a
relationship outside of drag.
It's like, when I'm notworking, my name is Lee.
And I told her I would text herthe next day.
And I did.
And pretty much that was thebeginning of the end of
(29:30):
singleness.
We went out on our first date.
She brought flowers, which Istill have dried out in the
living room.
That's a key with me.
Even though I'm masspresenting, you give me a
bouquet.
It was very sweet.
We had appetizers.
And geez, we did the lesbianU-Haul for the most part.
To let her house.
(29:52):
But we never really separatedafter that.
And I'm slow.
It wasn't instant for me.
It builds.
And I have to learn to trust.
And I think I'm still learningthat.
I had come out of a reallytraumatic relationship, a
long-term relationship.
And I vowed I'm not going to dothat to myself.
And I'm not going to do that toanother human being again.
(30:14):
As far as like when it's bad orsomething doesn't work, don't
stay in it or learn to have hardconversations and get past it.
I'm still learning that.
We do.
It's not all rainbows andbutterflies.
I'm hard to live with.
I'm...
very in my head and learning tolive with another person and
(30:35):
share your life has been amazingand a joy that I thought I'd
never have.
So yeah, I have my moments.
So yeah, we never left.
And then last June, cause she'sa pride baby.
I wanted to end pride withproposing to her at one of my
shows, the drag brunch.
(30:55):
And I had her brother, uh, Withher in the crowd, he had the
ring, and I did this song thatstill makes her cry.
Christina Miglino King (31:03):
Oh, my God.
Lee King (31:04):
I kept the $5 bill.
So when I did my stripping, Ihad it tucked in my kill that I
was going to strip out.
So it's like when I tore myshirt off, this is the best.
You can see the $5 billsticking out, and I wrote on it,
Christina, will you marry me?
And in pink, you know,lettering bright, it's bright
like me, her face, she's doingthe, I'm trying to read it.
(31:27):
You read it.
Since this is audio.
What are you doing?
You said that, Christina.
And it's hard to, like, not getthe smile.
You
Speaker 05 (31:36):
know what
Lee King (31:36):
else to say.
Yeah, she knew what was goingto happen then, and then I came
over, her brother handed me thering, and in front of the crowd,
she said yes.
It was
Christina Miglino King (31:43):
the best day of my life.
Lee King (31:45):
I mean, truly.
I knew that Christina was myperson, that I don't need, I
don't want anyone else.
Like I said, I'm not alwayseasy to live with, but we're
doing it together.
Melissa (31:53):
Nobody's easy to live with.
I'm like, this is a real humanrelationship
Lee King (31:57):
thing.
Drag is my life.
Yeah.
I think about it, live it 24-7for the most part.
So it's like drag was my life,but then Christina entered and
priorities and trying to make itall work and not caring as much
about, okay, well, we can't dothis, but I got you.
So maybe one day or maybenever, it doesn't really matter.
(32:18):
I got her and our three dogs.
Jessica (32:21):
There's a few things that I'd like to circle back and
touch on that you said that Ithought were really beautiful.
I am curious about, Why youtexted?
Like, why did you actuallyfollow up?
Because a lot of people mightget a phone number and be like,
ah, and not necessarily
Lee King (32:38):
follow through.
Okay, good point.
I actually received two numbersthat night.
Yeah, that's the irony.
A friend of mine was trying to,like, get me to date a friend
of theirs just for a hookup.
And that really...
It's not me.
That's not my style.
You know, if I'm going toinvest anything, it better be
something good.
She seemed nice.
(32:59):
And again, it was like shewas...
honest, sincere, and again,just terrified.
You could see it.
It's like, okay, this isn'tgoing to be like somebody that
wants to like use me forsomething.
It
Melissa (33:08):
felt sincere.
It felt sincere.
She didn't feel well-practicedin the art
Lee King (33:11):
of giving away her number.
And then the texting is like, Idon't call.
Everything is a text, you know,in this day and age for the
most part.
And then she actually still hasa better working car and picked
me up.
So I was like trapped in thecar with her.
Jessica (33:25):
You forced them into this.
You said so many beautifulthings about what I just think
relationships, And I reallyhonor that it does take time to
trust someone and to build thosefeelings.
What was it about Christinathat you experienced that
(33:46):
allowed you to surrender to whatyou had found with her?
Lee King (33:50):
What was a turning point for me?
It was when we had a hardconversation and she stayed and
she said, I'm not goinganywhere.
And for me, I've had a lot ofpeople close to me, you know,
leave throughout my life, evenlike losing my family, where I
(34:13):
just learned to be on my own andit was okay.
It wasn't okay, but I toldmyself it was.
And really believing her, andshe didn't.
She stayed.
She didn't abandon me.
And I realized, oh, I can bevulnerable to somebody.
Shit can hit the fan.
Things don't have to beperfect.
And they're still going to seeme.
(34:33):
I'm going to see them.
And we're still going to betogether.
And it's okay.
Everything is okay.
Even when all hell is breakingloose.
You don't have a lot of money.
Trans bills are being passed.
Right and left.
They're targeting us.
It's okay.
Because we have each other.
We'll make it through.
(34:55):
Somehow.
We'll make it through.
I don't have all the answers,but that's also okay.
We will figure it out somehow.
Yeah.
So she stayed.
She stayed.
So I want to stay with her.
Jessica (35:13):
What do you think the relationship has been teaching
you through having somebody showyou that they will stay?
Lee King (35:19):
Compromise.
I'm not always right.
Not.
A lot of the time I am.
But.
In life, in life.
I'm a Virgo.
If I speak it, there's usuallya reason behind it.
I won't say it.
Otherwise, I'll just shut up.
But it's the compromising andbending and just growing,
learning things about yourselfthrough another person, seeing
(35:42):
yourself through another person.
And that's interesting becauseI don't see what she sees in me.
But lucky me.
You know, it's watching hergrow and step into her power
again recently that she's tryingthings and exploring.
You know, that's a kick, youknow, because it's like I'm not,
(36:04):
I'm a peacock definitely, but Ido love to see her happy and
trying things that are outsideof her comfort zone and enjoying
it.
Unknown (36:14):
Yeah.
Melissa (36:15):
I wish I could hug you both.
Are you going to stay?
Like it literally is liketerrifying at such a cellular
(36:39):
level of can we make it throughthese hard things?
Can we have theseconversations?
Can we show each other theseparts of ourselves that feel so
sacred and scary?
And are you going to stay?
And I don't think it'snecessarily easier to leave, but
it can feel like the easieroption of like, Instead of
digging in deeper, what if wejust left?
(37:01):
And I didn't have to go therewith you.
I didn't have to risk puttingmy whole soul and heart on the
line with you.
And what I'm hearing and evenin my personal lived experience
of crossing this hardest fuckthreshold in my relationship is
the love that gets to becultivated in that is so much
more rich.
(37:21):
It's so much more secure andwonderful than the honeymoon
stage in the beginning when Whenyou're like, you are my person
and you're going to be by myside and I can really count on
that.
Like that's like a level ofsafety that I don't know that
many people actually get toexperience.
So it's really beautiful.
And I remember Christina.
Like crying quietly this wholetime over there.
(37:44):
I know.
I
Jessica (37:47):
mean, Leigh, I remember when Christina met you and I
remember how she spoke about youand how sure that she was right
from the get-go.
And I'm curious, Christina,because you took a leap of faith
and you gave this person anumber and you really didn't
know who they were.
What did you discover on thefirst date or in actually
(38:07):
beginning that relationship thataffirmed those feelings, that
hunch that you had?
What did you see that said, Iam, I'm staying?
Yeah.
Christina Miglino King (38:17):
I mean, it is such a good question.
And it's like in my body, it'shard to put words to it because
it was just such a physicalexperience when I had that first
moment with them.
I mean, honestly, my intuitionis really good.
I think since I was very young,I felt like I would find my
(38:38):
soulmate in this life.
But I also went through so muchhardship alone that I was like,
it's not going to happen forme.
And when I met Lee, I was notin a place of like, yeah, my
life is great and I'm going togo find my soulmate.
I really believe that in someway, at least for me, I'm a
Gemini.
Like we're very career drivenand passion forward with our
(39:01):
projects and our communities.
And like, I know that I'm happyalone.
And I'm so grateful I learnedthat before I met Lee, that I'm
so good on my own and I'm soindependent.
And I really had to clear awayso much in my life to see them.
To have that moment.
(39:23):
I mean, I'm not saying Iwouldn't have seen them if I had
still the business running.
But I don't think I would havegone to drag bingo.
You know, like I had so muchhappening in my little office in
my house alone on a hill.
I wasn't doing anything.
And so it's interesting becauseso much had to die.
So much had to leave me.
(39:44):
I had to grieve so much.
And then it was justinteresting timing.
Like when I met Lee, I had allthis space in my life.
And Lee deserves that space.
And so it was easy to see themand what they wanted.
And I remember one of our firstconversations, like bigger
conversations, I think we werehere at the house or something.
(40:07):
And Lee was like, I'm notgiving up drag.
And I was like, what?
I would never, ever want youto.
Like, what do you mean?
You know, this is before wedecided to be a couple.
And I was like, fuck no, you'llnever give up anything for me
ever.
We had moments that were reallybig for both of us, like big
(40:29):
moments that were like, huh,landed inside of you.
Oh, my God.
Okay.
I know for Lee, it was like Ididn't want them to change.
And I know what it's like whenyou fall in love quickly and
it's like, oh, my God, thisperson is my world now.
And I didn't mean to make Leemy world.
It's just I didn't have a lothappening in my life.
(40:49):
It was weird.
It was like this moment of justlike pause for me.
where there was all this spaceopen.
And that's a scary place,especially if you're like a
highly driven, you know,whatever.
You identify as your career,which I definitely did.
But I was just very much a yesfor them right away.
(41:10):
And it wasn't always easy.
There were moments that Iquestioned that, like, oh my
gosh, is this going to be toomuch?
Because as much as I love big,I also...
have my own wounds aroundliving with somebody and being
this close.
And will they stay and willthey be there?
And can I really trust?
And so there were lots ofmoments that I had that were
(41:31):
like, what am I doing?
Is this okay?
Am I going to be okay?
And I just kept listening to mygut.
And the underlying message hasjust been like, you can stay.
Like, it's going to be OK.
You know, like that's been theconstant with us.
Weirdly, because it's neverbeen like that before.
You know what I mean?
It's like you don't see itcoming and then it's right
(41:52):
there.
I know, Jessica Rose, yourecently had this experience.
It's like you're like, wow, OK,my whole life just changed.
Yeah.
And how beautiful is that?
Because when I was single forso long, I just thought, okay,
I'll just put my love intosomething else.
Because I have a massivecapacity for love.
That's my human design.
You know, it's like, that's whyI'm here.
(42:14):
So like on some level, this isactually part of my design.
Like I get to have the love ofmy life in this life.
And Lee's human design is like,I'm going to completely die and
come back to life multipletimes in this life.
And I'm going to be thebiggest, brightest phoenix of
them all.
It's such a trip.
(42:35):
Don't you have
Jessica (42:36):
a phoenix tattoo?
Do I remember?
Oh, they're all.
Lee King (42:39):
Yeah,
Jessica (42:39):
it's so cool.
Yeah.
On the cross of the phoenix.
You have like a bunch ofphoenixes.
Yeah.
Lee King (42:44):
Amelia.
Amelia does a lot of stuff forme.
I don't even know what I haveanymore.
Jessica (42:49):
Christina, you kind of touched on this, so I just
wonder if we can solidify it.
Maybe not because it might betoo soon.
You're still in the becoming.
But I'm curious in all of thisexperience of becoming and what
you're discovering now in thisnew phase of life.
What do you think that is?
What do you think you'rediscovering?
here with Lee that your oldlife couldn't have held space
(43:09):
for?
Can you see why you had to letit go?
Yeah,
Christina Miglino King (43:13):
I mean, there's a level of vulnerability
when you're with somebody thatisn't just a person you're
dating temporarily.
And what's interesting is Isort of I'm a very authentic
person, I think.
At least I always try for that.
But I have such a deep spiritand such a big heart and I'm
(43:33):
such an empath that it hurts.
It's physically painful to bethis person in the world.
And so to not have somethingelse that's like a business or
to not have something so big, tonot have hundreds of people
that I'm trying to split myselfinto hundreds of parts to be
(43:53):
there for and have one person.
It's a lot.
And to be honest, I get why Leewas like, whoa, dude, I think
that's a really healthyresponse.
And to be at the beginning ofthe relationship.
Yeah.
And to be fair, I'm also a Iknow myself better now.
I'm older.
I'm not in my 20s where I justgive everything to the person
(44:16):
I'm with or, you know, make themmy whole world.
It's not that.
I did happen to have a lot ofspace for them, which was really
beautiful.
But that also created likethese deep conversations and
these levels of trust that if Iwas in my business, I can tell
you right now, even if we metand started dating, that
journey, who knows what wouldhave happened because this
(44:39):
relationship deserves more.
Speaker 05 (44:41):
And
Christina Miglino King (44:42):
I don't know if I would have known that.
had I had my heart split in amillion places.
Yeah.
If that makes sense, you know,it's like.
Jessica (44:50):
It does.
It does to me.
Melissa (44:52):
It's very resonant.
I'm currently in a season,well, I kind of always am, where
my heart is given to a lot, alot of people.
And so it really, it reallylands.
And I think one of the manythings that I would love for you
to expand on, because throughthe NOVA, which is the
communities that I run, peoplethat come into our community are
(45:13):
either let's say on the otherside, like where you are right
now, right?
They've gone through thisexperience, this dark night of
the soul.
It's like, I don't want to keepgoing the way that I have been
going.
And now they're on a more soulaligned path.
Or they're often in the middle.
(45:34):
They're usually fuckingterrified because the voice of
The whisper, the scream insideis getting so loud that they can
no longer ignore it, right?
Like you were saying, I wentyears past burnout.
And that is where I see peoplea lot of time in the middle of
that.
(45:54):
And so I know you spoke to thisin the stories that you've
shared, but what do you say topeople?
Like if you were in a room fullof people that are like, I'm
fucking terrified.
I feel like my life needs to bedismantled.
I don't know what to do.
What
Christina Miglino King (46:07):
do you say to them?
The only person that you havetruly in this life is yourself.
So the only person that's worthlosing it all for is yourself.
And you can't really, I mean,I've gone back and forth so many
times, like, should I not closemy business?
I didn't really have a choice.
I had no money left.
(46:27):
The last thing I ever wanted todo was be in a place where I
couldn't pay the people I lovedwho were helping me with my
business.
So fuck that.
I think sometimes the leap offaith is really just trusting
that you're going to landsomewhere.
You're going to land somewhereand you might land somewhere
completely naked with nothingand you'll learn something from
(46:47):
that.
It's all learning.
And to be honest, I wish Icould say that it's only been
one time that I've had this hugeego death and, you know, lost
things.
No, for me, and I think it'sdifferent for everyone, I have
done this multiple times in thislife and it is terrifying and
hurts every time.
And there's nowhere else to goat a certain point.
(47:08):
What I know will happen is if Ikeep doing the thing and I'm
burning out, it will becomebigger.
I will put my body throughmore.
I'm still figuring out healthissues that are from me ignoring
that part long enough.
And that's true.
If you're going through hell,keep going.
Like, just keep going.
Everything changes.
Melissa (47:30):
Well, you're speaking to the word trust, and that has
kind of been a thread through somuch of this conversation,
trust.
And when you're going throughhealth, trust is the hardest
thing.
Do you feel like it's gotten, Imean, there's almost like a
benefit to going through itmultiple times because you're
like, okay, this sucks.
It's painful.
It's awful.
And has that trust muscle beenbuilt up?
(47:52):
Do you notice that when youwent through it this past time,
having gone through it indifferent iterations before,
that even when it sucked, youstill had that trust that like I
don't know how this is gonna gobut I at least trust that I'm
gonna land somewhere I
Christina Miglino King (48:05):
mean I wish I could say that like every
second I felt that way nothat'd be delusional I mean it
really is it vacillates andsometimes I really don't know
because the trust builds fromyou feeling like you don't know
and then the universe is like doyou want to fall in love
instead okay fuck what that'swhat I'm expected to do now what
(48:27):
the hell you know but but Leebut Lee Lee didn't say no to me
either.
And Lee didn't leave.
And I was not in a super stableplace.
And for like a Virgo earthyperson to be like, oh, sure, a
person who's leaving theirbusiness, losing their house,
doesn't know how they're goingto make money.
That is a risk.
I mean, granted, you're olderthan me.
(48:49):
You own this house.
You have what you need to feelsomewhat secure on your own.
But today we live in a tougheconomy.
Like if you have a partner,you're so lucky because it's two
of you trying to make ends meetand make shit happen you know
it's tough out there and so idon't know i don't know is the
answer i don't know if it getseasier you know what i mean it's
(49:12):
almost like the thing getsharder but the payoff gets even
bigger which is wild
Melissa (49:17):
that's resonant what's like deeper levels of letting
go it's like shedding thesebigger and bigger layers each
time around and the more youland on your feet the more and i
get it for sure in the middleof You're like, I don't trust
any of this shit.
This is terrible.
Where is this going?
Please show me the answers.
But I love just seeing evenhaving you be on here before
(49:42):
where you are now and just thereal, raw honesty of the
process.
Right.
And for both of you, of course,no, it wasn't easy.
But look what becomes possible.
Look what we can create when wego to those places within
ourselves.
Jessica (49:55):
I'd love Lee to answer it as well, because you have
also taken a lot of risks to bewho you are.
So for those listening who arein the fear of really stepping
out in their truth and theirauthenticity, what would you say
for them?
Lee King (50:10):
I'm in recovery.
So I had 30 years of activeaddiction.
I got sober in 2018, clean andsober.
So it really is one day at atime, sometimes one minute.
at a time.
If you can, hold on.
You don't know what's aroundthat corner.
(50:31):
You really don't.
And even before meetingChristina and before doing drag,
I attempted suicide.
I did not want to enter into2023.
I had no plans.
I am a failed suicide attempt.
And I would not have what Ihave today if If I had
(50:53):
succeeded.
And I know for some people thatis the answer.
They just can't do it anymore.
And that's valid.
But you don't really know whatis around that corner.
You don't know the future.
You can't predict it.
And if you can just get throughthe hard points, it does get
easier.
(51:14):
It really does.
And acceptance.
Acceptance of some things.
Holding on to something foreverand holding anger and
resentment eats at you.
If you're capable of forgiveyourself first and then forgive
others, that's huge to be happy.
And I'm bad.
I can hold a grudge.
I can hold a grudge bad.
(51:35):
But I realize now this is notgood for me and I need to let it
go.
Even if I have to do, like yousaid, a death of something, an
ego death.
For me, it's sports.
I got drag.
I got an amazing wife.
But this year, my athleticcareer has changed due to being
(51:55):
trans, non-binary.
I am one of those people thathas been kind of pushed out.
We had a meeting recently, andhopefully that will change.
But seeing how people reactedto me being myself and And
finding out the truth haschanged it for me, where do I
want to put myself in thatsituation?
I want to put her in thatsituation where we go to games.
(52:16):
Maybe not, but it's also, Ikeep saying the word okay.
That's the thing.
If that does change for me, Ihave other things.
So my life isn't built aroundone aspect of life, sports,
which it was, just like it'snot.
just drag so if you can expandyour life and meet different
(52:41):
people and do different thingsthat also is helpful but just
hold on work through the toughmoments ask which is so hard for
help even if it's just sittingin a room Yeah.
The only drag show I have beento was
Jessica (53:15):
with Christina in Palm Springs.
Yeah.
And it was one of the mostjoyous experiences of my life.
I was floored by how special itwas.
And I just wanted to thank youboth for being here and being so
honest and vulnerable andsharing your story, but also for
(53:38):
turning that hardship and thatpain and your own struggle
towards authenticity andself-love and turning it into a
gift.
For people, you really bringand spread so much joy.
And I just have a lot ofgratitude for you both and how
much you give of yourselves andhave been taking a stand for so
(54:01):
many people who aren't beinggiven a voice.
So thank you.
Such
Melissa (54:03):
an honor to get to reconnect with you, Christina.
Beautiful to spend time withyou.
And Leigh, so wonderful to meetyou.
Thank you for being here.
Christina Miglino King (54:10):
Thank you for having us.
Yeah, it's been a beautifulexperience to get to talk with
you guys.
Jessica (54:18):
I'm just so happy for you and your love.
Love you.
Love you so much.
See
Lee King (54:25):
you at the wedding.
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