June 3, 2026 • 39 mins
In the Season 2 premiere of Innovative Real Estate, the Three Squared team explores Detroit Mayor Mary Sheffield’s ambitious initiative to deliver 1,000 new single-family homes across the city over the next four years. Drawing from firsthand experience developing housing projects in Detroit, we dive into the realities of navigating permitting, infrastructure, land development, tax incentives, and affordable housing initiatives within the city’s evolving development landscape. We also reflect on the broader impact of architecture, planning, and development in shaping sustainable communities throughout Detroit.
Episode Highlights:
- Mayor Mary Sheffield’s housing initiatives
- Detroit’s plan to build 1,000 single-family homes
- The reality of Detroit’s permitting process
- Why “builder-ready plans” aren’t the full solution
- Infrastructure, taxes, and utility challenges developers face
- The importance of Neighborhood Enterprise Zones (NEZ)
- Affordable housing funding and the Housing Trust Fund
- Multifamily housing vs. long-term neighborhood growth
- How architecture and development can strengthen communities
View the full show notes for Episode 79 HERE.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Let's make the architect work inareas that are more efficient.
(00:03):
Stop approving buildings.
Start approving systems.
I would never correct you, butwe can't keep that on air.
Welcome back to the long-awaitedreturn of Innovative Real
Estate.
You're your host, Three SquaredInc.
(00:23):
I am Breck Crandall.
I have with me today JillRamirez and Leslie Horn.
And uh this is season two.
This is the kickoff of seasontwo.
We're back, and guess what?
We have microphones.
Even Leslie has a microphone.
I do, I do.
I've had I've and easy to use,actually.
Makes me sound a little better.
I'm pretty happy about thissetup.
(00:44):
Sound good, feel good, and we'reback.
Uh today, kicking things off, weare jumping into episode 80 by
talking about the newadministration in the city of
Detroit.
We've had uh a change inleadership.
Uh Michael Duggan has walkedaway from the mayoral seat and
(01:05):
is now on his way to uh to tomaybe run for uh well he is
running, maybe to be thegovernor of the state of
Michigan, which is you knowwe're we're excited for here.
Um, but uh but the city ofDetroit now has a new mayor, um,
and that is Mayor MarySheffield.
And we're gonna be talking todayabout Mary Sheffield, who she
(01:26):
is, what she's bringing to thetable that's specific to our
category, which is gonna be thatinnovative real estate.
And so we're gonna be talkingabout how she is making a push
on housing initiatives acrossthe city of Detroit.
And if you know anything aboutThree Squared Inc., uh, we care
a lot about housing and we carea lot about Detroit.
So this seems to be rightcomfortable in our wheelhouse.
(01:50):
Jill Leslie, anything you wantto add before we start talking
about who Mary Sheffield is?
I think that you should give alittle anecdote about the state
of the city of Detroit that youjust attended.
Yeah, state of the city.
We were uh we were we wereinvited to make an appearance.
Um uh just a brief reminder (02:06):
our our project, the Cochrane Home,
which is where I'm actuallycalling in from today, um, was
decorated by the AIA Detroit andthe AIA Michigan and their
honors category for forsingle-family house.
And it was attended by MayorMike Duggan when he cut the
ribbon um for for our home.
(02:27):
And so we have had uh prettyconstant communication with the
the mayor's team, um, and andwe've been uh made aware of the
transition and who the new thenew sheriffs are in town, so to
say.
And um, and so we we we receivedthat invite to go to the state
of the city address in person,which was an absolutely
(02:47):
incredible event.
It was held at a high schoolhere local in Detroit that had
performances by the high schoolstudents, um, really just an
immersive, just slice of Detroitmoments that that allowed us to
be like really proud to just bea part of everything that's
happening.
And uh she has a lot of groundto cover, um, she being Mary
Sheffield.
(03:08):
And uh one of her key topicsthat evening was to talk about
her housing initiatives and umwhat she's planning to roll out,
what the initial steps are thatwe think are fantastic ways to
start the conversation.
But we all know that there's alot of work to do, and just the
designs of homes is not alwaysthe whole story, right?
(03:29):
All right, so we're gonna getstarted by talking about uh Mary
Sheffield because um she shedefinitely is a character around
here.
Um she is the first woman andthe first black woman to be in
charge of the city of Detroit,uh, which is which is
incredible.
Um she was born and raised inDetroit.
(03:51):
She's daughter of a pastor, anduh she started as a council
member in the city of Detroit.
She was uh she was actually theyoungest council member that
that ever joined.
I want to say it was like backin 2012, 2013, maybe.
She 2012, she joined uh as acity council member, and she was
like 26 at the time.
And I was like, wow, this islike it's my age.
(04:13):
Like, yeah, we we can get stuffdone.
Um and uh and then by 2022, uh,so a decade in that role, she
was she was actually um rose upto the occasion to become
council president.
So she served as councilpresident, and then um she she
ran for mayor, and and MikeDuggan said, Um, I you know I
support her bid for mayor.
(04:34):
And that was that.
She uh I don't I don't reallyneed to get into the details,
wanted a landslide election,took 77% of the vote here in
Detroit.
And um and now she's she's gotsome some big shoes to follow,
but but here's what I will say,and this is this is just an
opinion here.
This is this is no longer fact.
So let me put on my my opinionhat, is that Mike Duggan had a
(04:57):
very, very specific role toplay, and it was all supporting
the narrative of Detroit and thecomeback.
And to that end, I I think wecan agree he's he's done a
pretty solid job.
Like downtown has cranes, thereare towers, there's lights,
there's stores on Woodward.
That's great.
The focus was downtown, it wason big money.
Now we need to look at theneighborhoods, and and that's
(05:21):
really Ben Mary's message allalong.
That's why the state of the citywas held in a neighborhood, not
at a big fancy downtown hotel.
Um, that's the vibes here.
It it feels grassroots, it feelslike uh we are going to start
talking about neighborhoodinitiatives, and a huge gap
there is gonna be the housing.
We we had housing, we had tonsof houses and the history of
(05:43):
Detroit, and now we don't havehouses.
They're they're either abandonedor for the most part they've
been raised, they've been takendown.
And so we're gonna start lookingat those neighborhoods.
Now, fair to say not everyneighborhood's gonna get equal
attention.
I think we all have to startthere and just acknowledge like
just like downtown, it takes alot of energy and momentum and
time and money to see thesethings really like come to
(06:04):
fruition.
Mike Dogging was there for 11,12 years.
Uh, it takes time to make theseshifts, right?
Leslie, you you lived through alittle bit of all that.
Oh, I saw and witnessed everysingle bit.
And what I really liked, becauseyou know, after the the
transition in that two or threeyear period or after uh the old
mayor, I don't even want to sayhis name, um, was held
(06:25):
accountable for racketeering.
Um, at the end of the day,Duggan had to come in and really
after Dave Bell, you know, MayorBell came in, and oh my gosh,
his only job, I feel, was toreally assess how bad the city
was in financial ruin.
And then this, of course, itallowed the the bankruptcy
allowed a lot of federal help.
(06:45):
Duggan really, I think one ofhis biggest takeaways that we
see, which was a success, isnow, and it just happened like
two or three years ago, thereare more people staying in the
city.
We're increasing our residencyin the city as opposed to
declining.
(07:06):
And that trend stopped justrecently, like three two to
three years ago.
And now, again, like you stated,I mean, there's a lot of federal
funds that got flooded into thecity to help demolish and raise
buildings that were unsafe.
At the end of the day, we need aa new plan.
May Mayor uh Sheffield has somereally, I think, attainable
(07:30):
goals.
Uh, if you were to take a lookat the number of permits two to
three years ago, uh you wouldprobably say there's no way that
we're going to hit thesemilestone goals.
But I think it's a solid, Ithink we can do this.
I think as a city, I think she'sgot a good plan.
I know there's other things thatcan be done to support those
goals, but Rick, I'll let youcontinue.
(07:51):
But the city has really come along way back in its
efficiencies and in its strongfoundation hold.
And I just want to quick notethe city, what they did when
Duggan first came in is theycreated a 7.2 mile report,
right?
So for this long, just to yourpoint, that little period, that
little dot downtown, theyfocused on creating a powerful
(08:14):
infrastructure and they took thesame principles and then applied
it to uh the other area otherareas, six mile and over on the
east side, um, Ashland Altararea.
All they they really took thesame principles to expand and
make those little pocketsstronger.
And it's worked.
So now they're able to createcommunities within the city that
(08:39):
are thriving, and they'llcontinue to do that.
Go ahead with your um withyou've got some good statistics
here now.
Yeah, just briefly review acouple of the things that that
Mary Sheffield accomplishedwhile she was council president
because and these are thespecific items towards like
housing initiatives.
There's a huge uh push um forthe homes that like people
(09:01):
people did stay around herethrough thick and thin, and
those homes have seen betterdays.
And so uh she secured millionsof dollars through the senior
home repair grant program thatallowed people to like repair
their roofs or like fix theirporch uh and so on.
Um, she helped explain expandthe the NEZ.
(09:21):
Um, so if you're familiar withuh with state level taxes and uh
your your property taxes in thecity of Detroit, you know that
they're really high.
Lansing started the neighborhoodenterprise zone program so that
um they could create some taxrelief for specific targeted
zones within the city of Detroitand and other metropolitan
(09:46):
areas.
And so she helped expand thatprogram and make it a little bit
easier for people to establishneighborhood enterprise zones.
Um, she advanced the city'sright to counsel ordinance uh
through the Office of Defense,which is uh is legal
representation for free forlow-income residents who are
facing eviction or foreclosure.
That's I mean, that is adeep-seated topic.
(10:06):
Uh say shout out to Nora, ourshowrunner, for pulling up all
of these fantastic notes.
So we're coming to you withfacts in season two.
These are these have beenfact-checked and put together.
And if we're wrong, you canalways blame Nora.
I'm just kidding.
She's amazing, she's such asupport.
Um, and just in general, Mary'suh message has always been
(10:28):
emphasizing affordable housing,especially for low-income
residents.
And now, as she's stepping intothe mayoral seat, uh she is she
has made a pretty staggeringannouncement that she plans to
build 1,000 single-family homesin the first four years.
Why do I slow down when I saythat?
(10:50):
Um, if you if you've been a partof our journey or you've
listened in with Three Squaredor Innovative Real Estate, uh,
then you know that I built ahouse here in Detroit.
Took me five years to build ahouse here, and by the time I
finished, I would find out thatI was one of eight houses that
were built in the city ofDetroit that year.
That was not too long ago.
(11:12):
That was those two years agonow.
Um a thousand from eight?
That's uh that's quite a jump.
I I don't want to be thepessimist here.
We're gonna come at this uh froma realistic point of view, but
all in all, I'm just happy tosay that we are talking about
housing in the city of Detroit.
That conversation has not been afocus of anybody for a long
(11:32):
time.
It has been brushed under therug uh for for education and for
the big three bailouts andeverything in between.
But we have always avoidedfacing the issue of housing,
houses, not just apartmentsgoing up everywhere, but
single-family houses where youcan live and stay.
So, Joe, I'm gonna hand it overto you because uh Mary has come
(11:54):
out now.
She did a uh a brief uh pressrelease statement a couple of
days before her state of thecity address, but she kind of
laid out uh a multi-point planof how she's gonna start the
conversation around a thousandsingle-family homes in four
years.
Yeah, so I think that one of thebiggest facts here that really
made us kind of like take a biggasp was she announced that they
(12:17):
were going to reduce thepermitting process from 30 days
down to one.
Now, this is ambitious to saythe least.
Uh, the director of BSeed cameout and said that they were
going to authorize inspectors toreview and issue permit on the
same day during fieldinspections.
I, for one, am thrilled to hearthat they're working towards
eliminating some of the red tapearound the building process.
(12:38):
But based on our extensiveexperience in building houses in
the city of Detroit, we knowit's not just the building
permitting process.
It's a lot of those differententities that you need approvals
for that some of them reallyaren't speaking to each other,
such as Water and SewerDepartment.
You need an additional permitthrough them in the city.
And then you also need yourbuilding permit.
You need to make sure thatyou've got your financing in
(13:00):
place.
So your bank has got to be onboard.
And if you're getting a plot ofland through the DLBA, Detroit
Land Bank Authority, that'sanother level that you've got to
factor in.
So all of those things, um,again, that's why I say this is
an ambitious plan, is becausewe've been through it, we have
experience here and we know thatit needs some revamping.
And I'm so excited that there'sreally some big motions here to
(13:22):
make those plans go into playand support the housing that the
city needs.
So uh, Breck and Leslie, I'mcurious to hear what your
additional thoughts are on thatnumber one.
I think that's the heaviesthitter here on this list.
It is.
And the only thing I'll say isokay, they say it can happen one
day.
Let's let's see.
Let's like absolutely go throughthe process.
And you know what?
(13:43):
If it only takes three days orfive days, holy smokes, we're
we're so far advanced.
So, you know, like any goodplan, they're gonna have little
bumps in the road, and we wantto do whatever we can to support
to make it smoother.
And I can't wait to, and I'msure we're pretty close here to
(14:03):
actually go through that processwith one of our own projects,
right?
And point number two issomething that we've spoken
about a lot with the differentfew different municipalities now
at this point.
So some pre-approved new homedesigns.
We've talked about providingsome builder-ready plans with
different jurisdictions toessentially streamline that
(14:23):
process of getting homesapproved and built so that
they're not being held up bythis red tape process.
But you have to consider thatevery single lot is different.
There's going to be differentconditions.
You may have a corner lot,obviously, neighborhoods vary
significantly throughout Detroitbecause our footprint is so
large as a city.
So we want to make sure that wecan support as we can in those
(14:45):
efforts.
We've been involved in a lot ofconversations about how we can
start to address things likemaking sure that the houses are
affordable.
And so part of that is providingthese builder-ready plans so
that they still look nice andthey're still designed by an
architect.
I really want to emphasize thatwe're not trying to propose
eliminating an architect by anymeans.
We're just saying let's make thearchitect work in areas that are
(15:09):
more efficient so that we're notwasting time and energy in the
areas that don't make sense.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And I think once we get ready toI can't wait for the follow-up
show because we will actually, Ithink, have an episode dedicated
to exactly what our process wason filing.
And I think it's, if I'm notmistaken, maybe the liminal
(15:30):
house that's up on the block.
Yeah.
And so last but not least, we'relooking to streamline the
process again by cutting outabout 30% of the administrative
back and forth.
So when we're talking about thatred tape, typically we get some
comments from city review, andthen there's got to be a
timeline for when you're doingthat resubmission, waiting on
(15:51):
some comments.
So if we can eliminate thatwaiting period, you can just
make building that much faster,which ultimately is going to
save money when time is moneywhen you're trying to build.
Jill, I have a question for youthen.
So, what do you think thelogistics, being our project
manager and director ofprojects, what do you think the
logistics look like for reducingthe permit time in this
(16:13):
instance?
And I think you can also extendit to maybe not even Detroit,
but also to help other listenersin other municipalities.
What are some key points orlogistics that might help reduce
that time?
The list is extensive, butthat's a great question.
You need to have a builder onboard.
You've got to have a builderearly on so that you can get
yourself scheduled because a lotof times we'll get new clients
(16:35):
in.
Their first conversation withus, we typically say, okay,
about a year from now is whenyou can expect to have your
house.
And so as long as you've got abuilder in in place, you've got
to have someone in mind.
Tradespeople, there's still ashortage, there's still
expensive, there's tariffs goingon.
There's so many layers ofdifficulties that go with
building a house.
(16:55):
It's really not for the faint ofheart, but we're here to
support.
And so having a good decisionmaker on your project team,
whether that's you or a projectowner or a representative for
you, we're here to support.
We're help, we're here to helplook through your code and
zoning process, conversationswith the city to get those
streamlined.
And then actually getting intothe ground, you're gonna need a
(17:18):
structural engineer.
You need a team that's going togive you the full package.
So you've got to get ready tomake some big decisions about
like what are all your fixturesand finishes going to be?
Those are huge things.
And we have some documents thatare here to equip and help you
and organize you because Breckhas been through it.
You've got to think about everysingle room in a full house.
(17:40):
It's not just a one-roomrenovation, it's an entire
house.
So it's a full process.
But as long as you've gotstrategic steps laid out, you
can start to make those stepsquicker, especially with that
support from the city.
Breck, do you think if this wasum in play when you built your
house, you would have savedsignificant time on the front
(18:00):
end?
No.
That's kind of the problem.
Okay, all right.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna run thisback a little bit because the
day the day after uh MayorSheffield like you know made
this press release, the uhsomebody from the free press
(18:20):
called me and they're they'relike, Brack is an architect
working on housing in the cityof Detroit.
Like, we're curious, what do youthink about these like three
rules?
Um, and I was like, Well, I'mI'm glad we're talking about it,
but like same-day permittinglet's be honest, that's that's
how it used to work.
There was a time in Detroitwhere that was that's how it
(18:41):
worked.
Like anybody who built inDetroit, you know, 15, 20 years
ago remembers walking in to oneword word, and walking upstairs
and just like slapping yourplans down, drinking a coffee,
spilling it on the drawingswhile you uh talk to the guys,
they'd circle some stuff in red,tell you you have to correct it,
you'd hand them cash over thecounter, and you'd walk out with
(19:01):
the building permit.
And then the inspectors tookcare of the rest.
Like that that process workedfor a while, and I think it just
really fell off the radar, andthen COVID and everything goes
online, and and and and the justthis whole this whole industry
is getting more complicated, notless complicated.
And so the red tape persists,and we get to a point where
(19:21):
yeah, they can get backlogged,but I don't think b seed ever
has been or was the problem.
I think the folks at B Seed aredoing God's work, honestly.
Like, yeah, they were theeasiest part of my journey in
building a house in Detroit,them and PDD.
Shout out to all the folks overthere.
You guys are doing great.
(19:42):
And so there's a part of me thatdoes say, oof, uh, it sounds
like you just made B Seed's lifea lot harder because now you're
gonna have all sorts of folksthat are gonna march in there
and be like, you said same-daypermits without reading the fine
print, right?
Obviously.
I feel for those guys, and I andI hope it doesn't make their
lives more difficult becausethey are doing what they can to
(20:04):
approve a lot of really excitingthings and to voice reason, and
they've got a fine line to bleedwith keeping developers and
money happy and keeping the realfolks who live in Detroit happy,
and that's it, that is a finebalance.
So, like they have a tall orderin their job, and I don't want
to make their job any easier.
So one day building approval,great.
(20:27):
I I think there is some HeyBreck, you said you don't want
to make their job easier, youdon't want to make their job
harder.
Oh, I don't sorry.
Yeah, no, no, I just want tomake sure uh I I really I would
never correct you, but we can'tkeep that on air.
No, but but I'm glad that Islipped up because it reminds me
of something that I do want totalk about here, which is
somebody's gonna bring up atsome point, artificial
(20:49):
intelligence, review my plansame day.
Shut up, Jeff Bezos, and knowyour place.
I do not want artificialintelligence reviewing my
drawings, point blank.
Because if that's where we'regoing, there is no need for plan
reviews.
There is no need for architects,because why doesn't it just draw
the buildings too?
(21:09):
This is a this is a horrorstory.
We're not going that route.
What artificial can artificialintelligence can do is support
in this process by flaggingthings and pulling out code
excerpts and giving architectsresponses that have more
information so that theyunderstand where these comments
are coming from.
There is a support network thatcould smooth this out, but we do
not want artificial intelligencereplacing the roles of these
(21:33):
individuals, nor should that bea conversation that people are
entertaining, because I thinkthat that's just going the wrong
way in this industry with thetools that we have.
Okay.
Right on.
So then let's talk about thebuild already plans.
Okay.
Great.
Scale of economy.
This is what Poulty Homes hasdone for eternity.
(21:56):
Uh and it makes neighborhoodsthat all the houses look the
same.
So, sure, there are the patternbook homes did a fantastic job
of like looking throughdifferent neighborhoods, pulling
out um, you know, examples ofdifferent materials and patterns
and colors.
That's great.
Uh, so that you have uh a littlebit of flexibility in the
(22:18):
character that you have acrossmultiple homes that are built
from the same like builder readyplans.
The the main issue that I havewith builder-ready plans is that
it takes out the conversation ofcontext.
And a building without contextisn't a building at all.
You're just slapping it whereverit needs to go with the same
(22:40):
features.
And so let me just give you letme give you a very simple
example.
Two identical homes, one builton the north side of the street,
one built on the south side ofthe street.
One gets natural daylight intheir windows all day long, in
their living space, in theirkitchen, in their upstairs
bedroom.
The other one gets a faint, dullglow in their living room from
(23:03):
morning until night.
Did you know that a north facinghouse on average spends$300 by
default more in HVAC heating andcooling costs just because it
had the misfortune of facingnorth?
$4,000 a year.
Almost$4,000.
Builder Builder ready plans kindof take out the concept of like
(23:25):
we should look at what's aroundthis house and where this house
is facing first.
So to that end, the things underthe building and the bigger
forces at play need to beanswered first.
And this is what I talk to thefree press about, and what we're
talking to to the city ofDetroit and the housing
(23:46):
revitalization department aboutis that like they're concerned,
and we are concerned, about thepermitting entitlement for their
project.
They're worried about the taxesbeing able to afford this,
they're worried aboutappraisals, they're worried
about if there's a buildingburied on that lot, they're
worried about if they can tapinto Detroit's water and sewer
system and if they can get DTEto drop them power.
(24:09):
You get all that done.
That is the real plan to build athousand homes.
At that point, you could dropanything on top of those, and
you could provide housing forthe masses.
That that is how you unlockhousing.
And so it's sure the buildalready plans and the one-day
approvals, like great.
Like, sure, it's a step in theright direction, but honestly,
(24:29):
like in truth, you need to fixthe bigger problem and you need
to have tax breaks set up.
You need to have banks that arewilling to work with the Detroit
Land Bank Authority andsubordinate to their agreements.
You need to have conversationswith DWSD so that they could
give you right of ways and tapyour water and sewer and connect
your uh your service lines andyour meters up to the building.
(24:51):
You need to have temporary poweron site when you're there
building so that you're notrunning on generators day and
night.
Like you fix that, and we coulddo a thousand homes every year
for the next four years.
And I think that has to be thebigger conversation.
Everything else steps in theright direction.
Glad it's coming up, glad we'retalking about it.
But this whole conversationstarted with Leslie, would this
(25:12):
make my job easier and buildingthe Cochrane home?
And no, I don't think it wouldhave.
I think having support andhaving the people who are
approving drawings communicatingbetter with those inspectors who
are going out to the field,communicating better with the
teams that have to approve youto cut open a street and then
patch that street back up.
There was a metal plate over mystreet in front of my house for
(25:37):
a year and three months becausethe water and sewer department
couldn't coordinate a time toreview it and sign off on it so
we could fill it back up.
That's not from lack of trying.
That's just that is a fullsystem failure, and one of many
in that process.
So fix the system.
And I think that's that's theway I would sue it.
Stop approving buildings, startapproving systems.
(26:02):
Like, what if you signed off ona plan?
A plan.
What if you signed off on aplan?
Let's start there.
Like, here's your floor planlayout.
But what if you could changedoors and windows and porches
and awnings and roof slopes?
You could totally reinvent theamount of daylight that's coming
into different spaces in thatbuilding just by relocating and
resizing the windows.
(26:23):
And we know where the sun is.
That's a that's a matter of factof the universe.
Like it's always gonna risethere, it's always gonna set
there.
Like, I think I think we coulddo a little bit better.
And I think if we just focusedon the things that like the
building department and thearchitects and the engineers are
concerned with, the things thatactually speak to the health,
safety, and welfare of thepeople who use that building,
(26:45):
like your water and yourplumbing, like your kitchens,
your bathrooms.
Like, let's agree on thosethings.
And then let's agree on theconstruction type.
Let's agree on the details ofhow we frame these, how we fire
protect these, how you makefoundations for these.
Let's agree on those things.
And then that becomes standard,and then you could open the
floodgates to any architect andany developer who wants to play
(27:08):
by these rules because it's alllaid out there for you.
It's on a silver platter.
Now you can take it and do thefun creative part on top of it,
and then develop that becausethe hard part has been laid out
for you.
And if we can start approvingsystems, stop approving
buildings, I think we canactually build some homes.
Amazing.
Uh amazing.
(27:28):
I know that the city has someplans um for uh some some new
funds they're putting together.
I mean, they're they're tryingto get this funded and trying to
support it financially.
I know that um, and Jill, I wantto ask you about that um also
here in a quick second.
Um I do want to note, I thinkthat was really profound and
(27:52):
making sure that we have a plan,a system.
I think the system is reallywhere it goes.
Do we believe that by creatingsystems?
Are you talking veryspecifically about a system,
systematic way of constructioncombined with design?
Or are you looking and thinkingsystems like materials, like you
(28:16):
know, the SIP panels like yourhouse is made out of, or a
system of you know, utilizingcontainers, prefabrication
systems?
Go into a little bit more deepdive on that.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's a that's a greatclarification.
I think I'm talking about twodifferent systems.
I'm talking about like buildingmethodologies, like actual
sticks and bricks that make thehomes, and then I'm talking
(28:36):
about a system of like it'sgotta start from the top.
I don't even know what to callit.
It's like a housing approvalsystem, housing approval system,
sure.
But it's it's support that hasto start.
In Detroit, the conversation hasto start with taxes.
If you cannot afford taxes onthis building because of our
millage rate, then we cannotstart construction, period.
(28:57):
Point blank.
So until you're in a tax breakzone or until you have a tax
break tied to the loan on thatnew construction, it's a
no-start.
Step two is is our house buriedon that lot?
Is the soil contaminated?
And do I have water and sewerand electrical access?
If you can't, then that lot isnot buildable.
We need to categorize thesethings.
(29:18):
So you have to start by likeparceling out.
I I had a conversation with oneof the lawyers who who helped
found what became the DetroitLand Bank Authority.
And in that conversation, youknow, we're talking like we have
62,000 properties.
And I said, Well, that's great.
How many of them are in aneighborhood enterprise zone?
An NEZ?
And he was like, Well, I gottago check.
We got to get that list.
(29:39):
And he came back with a list.
And I said, if they're not oneof those lots, then they have to
go into a different tax breakprogram, like a pilot program or
something else.
Those aren't marketable lots.
And so if you just how many wereon that list?
How many were out of the 62,000on that list?
I don't remember the exactnumber, but it was I mean, it
was a fantastic reduction.
(30:00):
It was somewhere around 5,000 orsomething like that.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
It was in that ballpark.
Um, but they but they publishedthat, and that's important.
That is a huge step in the rightdirection because if you recall
my journey, I called the landbank about 12 separate lots.
I would just like walk aroundthe neighborhood and I'd stand
in front of one, I'd parceldata, map it, and then I'd call
them and be like, is this oneavailable?
(30:21):
And every single time out of 12,they said no.
And I'm like, then what am Ilooking for?
Like, you tell me what lots Ican have.
And then that's when they werelike, you can only have the lots
that we market through arealtor.
And I was like, Where's thatlist?
They're like, we don't have alist, we only release them like
one at a time, maybe two at atime.
Oh okay, do you have one I canbid on?
(30:42):
So it's the the whole idea oflike these are builder ready
lots, it's it's a fallacy atbest.
So let's start the conversationthere.
So two systems now on thebuilding side of things, yeah, I
am talking about envelopesystems and structural systems.
Like, don't approve thebuilding, approve the
(31:03):
manufacturer who's manufacturingthe components of the building.
Okay, if you're working withchampion homes, approve champion
homes.
If you're working with guardianstructural technologies, approve
guardian structural technologiesdetails.
Don't approve the actual home,or they're all gonna be the
exact same home in differentcolors.
We see enough of that.
I I think I think we are Cantonfatigued at this point, and we
(31:26):
don't need to see any moreidentical homes.
We would like to see homes ingeneral, but we also don't want
to see the alien spaceships thatare landing in North Corktown
and Island View.
Like, I don't think that theneighbors are stoked about those
either.
So there is a fine balance to behad, but like give a little bit
of trust in the system.
And and I think it is importantin all of our communication with
(31:48):
like advisors on these topics,because this is not like a
business ploy.
This is a business ploy, I wouldhave said all three squared all
the time, every time, right?
It's important that we open thisup to like a bigger category of
people who can play.
No one firm, no one developer,no builder is going to like
terraform Detroit's landscapesingle-handedly.
(32:09):
Right.
Dan Gilbert's tried.
Okay.
So, like, unless you have moremoney than God, uh then join
with the rest of us and like andjoin this effort.
Like, let's stop approving oneplan and build it a hundred
times, and let's start approvinga plan that allows us a hundred
good designs and gives a hundredpeople a home that responds to
its neighbors to the sun and andto the natural factors of the
(32:33):
universe, like wind and air andlight and water.
Amazing.
I know that Jill um has someinformation because I know the
city in this point, they'vethey've actually are putting up
some money.
They've got some funds that havebeen identified and a way to get
processed and funded.
Jill, I think it'd really beimportant for you because we've
(32:53):
even were intimately involvedwith not involved, but
intimately knowledge about oneof the projects that were that
was partially funded utilizingsome of the funds that the city
has has brought to the table.
You want to talk about that?
Yeah, affordable housing trustfund?
Yeah, so this was an executiveorder.
And so essentially this meansthat 100% of the proceeds from
(33:14):
the sales of city-ownedcommercial properties are gonna
go into this affordable housingdevelopment and preservation
trust fund.
So I was lucky enough to tour uhLa Jolla Gardens development.
So that was hosted via ULI,which we're a member of at Three
Squared.
And so that development features42 affordable units in southwest
Detroit.
It's off of West Verner Highway.
(33:35):
It's a beautiful development,and I really want to emphasize
that while it's affordablehousing, it's loaded with
amenities.
It's got a community space onthe first floor, and it's like
the prime factor of thatbuilding is called the jewel.
So it's got these reallybeautiful bright blue fins along
the facade.
And those fins were actuallypart of the process of utilizing
(33:57):
local Detroit welders to help tokeep those fins on the project
because they were trying tovalue engineer them out if they
didn't fit into the budget.
So not only is this projectbeautiful, it's got a community
space, it's got abrick-to-mortar space to support
a local vendor that wants tosupply whatever they're
producing.
Um, so it's like a pop-up stylespace that can be shifted in and
(34:20):
out based on whoever wants tooccupy that space.
They've got a gym, they've gotoffices.
So 42 units, they're fullyoccupied.
So you can see that the demandis there for these style houses.
Um, our our friends over atDesign Think Tank were an
essential part of that project.
And so I was really excited tosee it.
Breck has been in that space aswell.
So we were really happy to seethat they were able to take
(34:43):
advantage of some of thosefunds.
So those some of the statisticsthat we've got here are about
four million dollars annually,which is double what was offered
last year.
So I think that's a hugeinitiative to support developers
that don't just need to makeprojects pencil, they can also
make a project that's going tosupport the community that lives
(35:03):
there.
Oh I'm so excited about thatproject.
Um for two reasons.
Number one, 100% vacant, uhnon-vacant.
I mean, it's fully rented, andwe're seeing just the opposite
on so many other projects thatare being built and high
vacancies and and such.
So this really warms my heart.
(35:25):
And it was, it I I think was itthe first project that was
approved for this for this typeof tax fund?
No, there were multipleprojects.
That was just one off the listthat we've all been to as a
tour.
And uh, we know Design ThinkTank worked on a massive part of
that project.
And I think that it was sounique and special that we got
to uh promote some local weldershere in Detroit to actually make
(35:49):
a really beautiful portion ofthat project happen that makes
it the iconic landmark that itis.
And shout out to Greg as well.
He, I mean, he pulled thatproject through a lot of trials
and tribulations to pull thatoff.
But it but it is another liketrue testament.
There's housing being built allover the city of Detroit, and
(36:09):
there has been consistentsupport for multifamily.
And as we talked to uh formerdirector Bryant, um Antoine
Bryant, who was who was head ofplanning, and then uh Alexa
Bush, who's taken over for himuh in the interim, both of them
have aired their frustrationswith us about yeah, there's tons
of one-bedroom and two-bedroomapartments, but like where does
(36:32):
a family live?
Where does a family start theirtheir their actual life here in
Detroit and stick around?
Because the people who like comein and live in these one-bedroom
apartments, they're not here tohang their hat for good and like
they're here to work for quickenfor their five years and dip.
So we we want to create aneconomy here that that's really
(36:55):
supporting the the the families.
I mean, it's like can we can wecreate like better houses that
actually start to generatestronger neighborhoods?
I think that's the long-termgoal.
And and we know that ownershiphas so much more meaning to it
than than renting.
It's not just a financial play,it's like how much you're
(37:16):
willing to give and invest inyour neighborhood.
Like mowing your lawn is asocial activity as as much as it
is anything else, right?
Like you you you build uh anidentity um through through
bonding with your neighbors andand being a part of your
neighborhood.
And we're just you know, you'renever gonna have that come out
(37:37):
of uh an apartment building.
And and so we're we're startingthe conversation around all of
the vacant lots that areeverywhere around here, and they
come in all sorts of shapes andsizes, and none of them I would
say are like building ready.
So let's uh let's go spade aspade and let's just have an
(37:57):
open and transparentconversation and bring a lot of
people to the table.
And I think that there is awin-win-win-win-win because if
every firm in the city ofDetroit was working full-time,
just nothing but housing, therewould still be plenty of room at
the table.
So join us and join MarySheffield and help support this
(38:18):
initiative.
We're gonna come back.
Well, as I said, we're gonna doan update on this.
Um, we're gonna check in everyso often um uh on the status of
the city of Detroit and housing,and that's gonna bleed into just
Metro Detroit in general becausethere's a lot going on.
We're gonna keep tabs on thatand much, much more in future
episodes.
But until next time, we arethree squared inc and this has
(38:39):
been Innovative Real Estate.
I'm Breck, and these are myco-hosts, Leslie.
And Jill, I couldn't get offmute.
Failed it, failed it.
And special thanks to ourshowrunner and everything good
about this team, Nora.
You you are the glue that holdsus together.
We'll talk to you next time.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, everyone.
(38:59):
Thank you.
Let's make the architect work inareas that are more efficient.
(00:03):
Stop approving buildings.
Start approving systems.
I would never correct you, butwe can't keep that on air.
Welcome back to the long-awaitedreturn of Innovative Real
Estate.
You're your host, Three SquaredInc.
(00:23):
I am Breck Crandall.
I have with me today JillRamirez and Leslie Horn.
And uh this is season two.
This is the kickoff of seasontwo.
We're back, and guess what?
We have microphones.
Even Leslie has a microphone.
I do, I do.
I've had I've and easy to use,actually.
Makes me sound a little better.
I'm pretty happy about thissetup.
(00:44):
Sound good, feel good, and we'reback.
Uh today, kicking things off, weare jumping into episode 80 by
talking about the newadministration in the city of
Detroit.
We've had uh a change inleadership.
Uh Michael Duggan has walkedaway from the mayoral seat and
(01:05):
is now on his way to uh to tomaybe run for uh well he is
running, maybe to be thegovernor of the state of
Michigan, which is you knowwe're we're excited for here.
Um, but uh but the city ofDetroit now has a new mayor, um,
and that is Mayor MarySheffield.
And we're gonna be talking todayabout Mary Sheffield, who she
(01:26):
is, what she's bringing to thetable that's specific to our
category, which is gonna be thatinnovative real estate.
And so we're gonna be talkingabout how she is making a push
on housing initiatives acrossthe city of Detroit.
And if you know anything aboutThree Squared Inc., uh, we care
a lot about housing and we carea lot about Detroit.
So this seems to be rightcomfortable in our wheelhouse.
(01:50):
Jill Leslie, anything you wantto add before we start talking
about who Mary Sheffield is?
I think that you should give alittle anecdote about the state
of the city of Detroit that youjust attended.
Yeah, state of the city.
We were uh we were we wereinvited to make an appearance.
Um uh just a brief reminder (02:06):
our our project, the Cochrane Home,
which is where I'm actuallycalling in from today, um, was
decorated by the AIA Detroit andthe AIA Michigan and their
honors category for forsingle-family house.
And it was attended by MayorMike Duggan when he cut the
ribbon um for for our home.
(02:27):
And so we have had uh prettyconstant communication with the
the mayor's team, um, and andwe've been uh made aware of the
transition and who the new thenew sheriffs are in town, so to
say.
And um, and so we we we receivedthat invite to go to the state
of the city address in person,which was an absolutely
(02:47):
incredible event.
It was held at a high schoolhere local in Detroit that had
performances by the high schoolstudents, um, really just an
immersive, just slice of Detroitmoments that that allowed us to
be like really proud to just bea part of everything that's
happening.
And uh she has a lot of groundto cover, um, she being Mary
Sheffield.
(03:08):
And uh one of her key topicsthat evening was to talk about
her housing initiatives and umwhat she's planning to roll out,
what the initial steps are thatwe think are fantastic ways to
start the conversation.
But we all know that there's alot of work to do, and just the
designs of homes is not alwaysthe whole story, right?
(03:29):
All right, so we're gonna getstarted by talking about uh Mary
Sheffield because um she shedefinitely is a character around
here.
Um she is the first woman andthe first black woman to be in
charge of the city of Detroit,uh, which is which is
incredible.
Um she was born and raised inDetroit.
(03:51):
She's daughter of a pastor, anduh she started as a council
member in the city of Detroit.
She was uh she was actually theyoungest council member that
that ever joined.
I want to say it was like backin 2012, 2013, maybe.
She 2012, she joined uh as acity council member, and she was
like 26 at the time.
And I was like, wow, this islike it's my age.
(04:13):
Like, yeah, we we can get stuffdone.
Um and uh and then by 2022, uh,so a decade in that role, she
was she was actually um rose upto the occasion to become
council president.
So she served as councilpresident, and then um she she
ran for mayor, and and MikeDuggan said, Um, I you know I
support her bid for mayor.
(04:34):
And that was that.
She uh I don't I don't reallyneed to get into the details,
wanted a landslide election,took 77% of the vote here in
Detroit.
And um and now she's she's gotsome some big shoes to follow,
but but here's what I will say,and this is this is just an
opinion here.
This is this is no longer fact.
So let me put on my my opinionhat, is that Mike Duggan had a
(04:57):
very, very specific role toplay, and it was all supporting
the narrative of Detroit and thecomeback.
And to that end, I I think wecan agree he's he's done a
pretty solid job.
Like downtown has cranes, thereare towers, there's lights,
there's stores on Woodward.
That's great.
The focus was downtown, it wason big money.
Now we need to look at theneighborhoods, and and that's
(05:21):
really Ben Mary's message allalong.
That's why the state of the citywas held in a neighborhood, not
at a big fancy downtown hotel.
Um, that's the vibes here.
It it feels grassroots, it feelslike uh we are going to start
talking about neighborhoodinitiatives, and a huge gap
there is gonna be the housing.
We we had housing, we had tonsof houses and the history of
(05:43):
Detroit, and now we don't havehouses.
They're they're either abandonedor for the most part they've
been raised, they've been takendown.
And so we're gonna start lookingat those neighborhoods.
Now, fair to say not everyneighborhood's gonna get equal
attention.
I think we all have to startthere and just acknowledge like
just like downtown, it takes alot of energy and momentum and
time and money to see thesethings really like come to
(06:04):
fruition.
Mike Dogging was there for 11,12 years.
Uh, it takes time to make theseshifts, right?
Leslie, you you lived through alittle bit of all that.
Oh, I saw and witnessed everysingle bit.
And what I really liked, becauseyou know, after the the
transition in that two or threeyear period or after uh the old
mayor, I don't even want to sayhis name, um, was held
(06:25):
accountable for racketeering.
Um, at the end of the day,Duggan had to come in and really
after Dave Bell, you know, MayorBell came in, and oh my gosh,
his only job, I feel, was toreally assess how bad the city
was in financial ruin.
And then this, of course, itallowed the the bankruptcy
allowed a lot of federal help.
(06:45):
Duggan really, I think one ofhis biggest takeaways that we
see, which was a success, isnow, and it just happened like
two or three years ago, thereare more people staying in the
city.
We're increasing our residencyin the city as opposed to
declining.
(07:06):
And that trend stopped justrecently, like three two to
three years ago.
And now, again, like you stated,I mean, there's a lot of federal
funds that got flooded into thecity to help demolish and raise
buildings that were unsafe.
At the end of the day, we need aa new plan.
May Mayor uh Sheffield has somereally, I think, attainable
(07:30):
goals.
Uh, if you were to take a lookat the number of permits two to
three years ago, uh you wouldprobably say there's no way that
we're going to hit thesemilestone goals.
But I think it's a solid, Ithink we can do this.
I think as a city, I think she'sgot a good plan.
I know there's other things thatcan be done to support those
goals, but Rick, I'll let youcontinue.
(07:51):
But the city has really come along way back in its
efficiencies and in its strongfoundation hold.
And I just want to quick notethe city, what they did when
Duggan first came in is theycreated a 7.2 mile report,
right?
So for this long, just to yourpoint, that little period, that
little dot downtown, theyfocused on creating a powerful
(08:14):
infrastructure and they took thesame principles and then applied
it to uh the other area otherareas, six mile and over on the
east side, um, Ashland Altararea.
All they they really took thesame principles to expand and
make those little pocketsstronger.
And it's worked.
So now they're able to createcommunities within the city that
(08:39):
are thriving, and they'llcontinue to do that.
Go ahead with your um withyou've got some good statistics
here now.
Yeah, just briefly review acouple of the things that that
Mary Sheffield accomplishedwhile she was council president
because and these are thespecific items towards like
housing initiatives.
There's a huge uh push um forthe homes that like people
(09:01):
people did stay around herethrough thick and thin, and
those homes have seen betterdays.
And so uh she secured millionsof dollars through the senior
home repair grant program thatallowed people to like repair
their roofs or like fix theirporch uh and so on.
Um, she helped explain expandthe the NEZ.
(09:21):
Um, so if you're familiar withuh with state level taxes and uh
your your property taxes in thecity of Detroit, you know that
they're really high.
Lansing started the neighborhoodenterprise zone program so that
um they could create some taxrelief for specific targeted
zones within the city of Detroitand and other metropolitan
(09:46):
areas.
And so she helped expand thatprogram and make it a little bit
easier for people to establishneighborhood enterprise zones.
Um, she advanced the city'sright to counsel ordinance uh
through the Office of Defense,which is uh is legal
representation for free forlow-income residents who are
facing eviction or foreclosure.
That's I mean, that is adeep-seated topic.
(10:06):
Uh say shout out to Nora, ourshowrunner, for pulling up all
of these fantastic notes.
So we're coming to you withfacts in season two.
These are these have beenfact-checked and put together.
And if we're wrong, you canalways blame Nora.
I'm just kidding.
She's amazing, she's such asupport.
Um, and just in general, Mary'suh message has always been
(10:28):
emphasizing affordable housing,especially for low-income
residents.
And now, as she's stepping intothe mayoral seat, uh she is she
has made a pretty staggeringannouncement that she plans to
build 1,000 single-family homesin the first four years.
Why do I slow down when I saythat?
(10:50):
Um, if you if you've been a partof our journey or you've
listened in with Three Squaredor Innovative Real Estate, uh,
then you know that I built ahouse here in Detroit.
Took me five years to build ahouse here, and by the time I
finished, I would find out thatI was one of eight houses that
were built in the city ofDetroit that year.
That was not too long ago.
(11:12):
That was those two years agonow.
Um a thousand from eight?
That's uh that's quite a jump.
I I don't want to be thepessimist here.
We're gonna come at this uh froma realistic point of view, but
all in all, I'm just happy tosay that we are talking about
housing in the city of Detroit.
That conversation has not been afocus of anybody for a long
(11:32):
time.
It has been brushed under therug uh for for education and for
the big three bailouts andeverything in between.
But we have always avoidedfacing the issue of housing,
houses, not just apartmentsgoing up everywhere, but
single-family houses where youcan live and stay.
So, Joe, I'm gonna hand it overto you because uh Mary has come
(11:54):
out now.
She did a uh a brief uh pressrelease statement a couple of
days before her state of thecity address, but she kind of
laid out uh a multi-point planof how she's gonna start the
conversation around a thousandsingle-family homes in four
years.
Yeah, so I think that one of thebiggest facts here that really
made us kind of like take a biggasp was she announced that they
(12:17):
were going to reduce thepermitting process from 30 days
down to one.
Now, this is ambitious to saythe least.
Uh, the director of BSeed cameout and said that they were
going to authorize inspectors toreview and issue permit on the
same day during fieldinspections.
I, for one, am thrilled to hearthat they're working towards
eliminating some of the red tapearound the building process.
(12:38):
But based on our extensiveexperience in building houses in
the city of Detroit, we knowit's not just the building
permitting process.
It's a lot of those differententities that you need approvals
for that some of them reallyaren't speaking to each other,
such as Water and SewerDepartment.
You need an additional permitthrough them in the city.
And then you also need yourbuilding permit.
You need to make sure thatyou've got your financing in
(13:00):
place.
So your bank has got to be onboard.
And if you're getting a plot ofland through the DLBA, Detroit
Land Bank Authority, that'sanother level that you've got to
factor in.
So all of those things, um,again, that's why I say this is
an ambitious plan, is becausewe've been through it, we have
experience here and we know thatit needs some revamping.
And I'm so excited that there'sreally some big motions here to
(13:22):
make those plans go into playand support the housing that the
city needs.
So uh, Breck and Leslie, I'mcurious to hear what your
additional thoughts are on thatnumber one.
I think that's the heaviesthitter here on this list.
It is.
And the only thing I'll say isokay, they say it can happen one
day.
Let's let's see.
Let's like absolutely go throughthe process.
And you know what?
(13:43):
If it only takes three days orfive days, holy smokes, we're
we're so far advanced.
So, you know, like any goodplan, they're gonna have little
bumps in the road, and we wantto do whatever we can to support
to make it smoother.
And I can't wait to, and I'msure we're pretty close here to
(14:03):
actually go through that processwith one of our own projects,
right?
And point number two issomething that we've spoken
about a lot with the differentfew different municipalities now
at this point.
So some pre-approved new homedesigns.
We've talked about providingsome builder-ready plans with
different jurisdictions toessentially streamline that
(14:23):
process of getting homesapproved and built so that
they're not being held up bythis red tape process.
But you have to consider thatevery single lot is different.
There's going to be differentconditions.
You may have a corner lot,obviously, neighborhoods vary
significantly throughout Detroitbecause our footprint is so
large as a city.
So we want to make sure that wecan support as we can in those
(14:45):
efforts.
We've been involved in a lot ofconversations about how we can
start to address things likemaking sure that the houses are
affordable.
And so part of that is providingthese builder-ready plans so
that they still look nice andthey're still designed by an
architect.
I really want to emphasize thatwe're not trying to propose
eliminating an architect by anymeans.
We're just saying let's make thearchitect work in areas that are
(15:09):
more efficient so that we're notwasting time and energy in the
areas that don't make sense.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
And I think once we get ready toI can't wait for the follow-up
show because we will actually, Ithink, have an episode dedicated
to exactly what our process wason filing.
And I think it's, if I'm notmistaken, maybe the liminal
(15:30):
house that's up on the block.
Yeah.
And so last but not least, we'relooking to streamline the
process again by cutting outabout 30% of the administrative
back and forth.
So when we're talking about thatred tape, typically we get some
comments from city review, andthen there's got to be a
timeline for when you're doingthat resubmission, waiting on
(15:51):
some comments.
So if we can eliminate thatwaiting period, you can just
make building that much faster,which ultimately is going to
save money when time is moneywhen you're trying to build.
Jill, I have a question for youthen.
So, what do you think thelogistics, being our project
manager and director ofprojects, what do you think the
logistics look like for reducingthe permit time in this
(16:13):
instance?
And I think you can also extendit to maybe not even Detroit,
but also to help other listenersin other municipalities.
What are some key points orlogistics that might help reduce
that time?
The list is extensive, butthat's a great question.
You need to have a builder onboard.
You've got to have a builderearly on so that you can get
yourself scheduled because a lotof times we'll get new clients
(16:35):
in.
Their first conversation withus, we typically say, okay,
about a year from now is whenyou can expect to have your
house.
And so as long as you've got abuilder in in place, you've got
to have someone in mind.
Tradespeople, there's still ashortage, there's still
expensive, there's tariffs goingon.
There's so many layers ofdifficulties that go with
building a house.
(16:55):
It's really not for the faint ofheart, but we're here to
support.
And so having a good decisionmaker on your project team,
whether that's you or a projectowner or a representative for
you, we're here to support.
We're help, we're here to helplook through your code and
zoning process, conversationswith the city to get those
streamlined.
And then actually getting intothe ground, you're gonna need a
(17:18):
structural engineer.
You need a team that's going togive you the full package.
So you've got to get ready tomake some big decisions about
like what are all your fixturesand finishes going to be?
Those are huge things.
And we have some documents thatare here to equip and help you
and organize you because Breckhas been through it.
You've got to think about everysingle room in a full house.
(17:40):
It's not just a one-roomrenovation, it's an entire
house.
So it's a full process.
But as long as you've gotstrategic steps laid out, you
can start to make those stepsquicker, especially with that
support from the city.
Breck, do you think if this wasum in play when you built your
house, you would have savedsignificant time on the front
(18:00):
end?
No.
That's kind of the problem.
Okay, all right.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna run thisback a little bit because the
day the day after uh MayorSheffield like you know made
this press release, the uhsomebody from the free press
(18:20):
called me and they're they'relike, Brack is an architect
working on housing in the cityof Detroit.
Like, we're curious, what do youthink about these like three
rules?
Um, and I was like, Well, I'mI'm glad we're talking about it,
but like same-day permittinglet's be honest, that's that's
how it used to work.
There was a time in Detroitwhere that was that's how it
(18:41):
worked.
Like anybody who built inDetroit, you know, 15, 20 years
ago remembers walking in to oneword word, and walking upstairs
and just like slapping yourplans down, drinking a coffee,
spilling it on the drawingswhile you uh talk to the guys,
they'd circle some stuff in red,tell you you have to correct it,
you'd hand them cash over thecounter, and you'd walk out with
(19:01):
the building permit.
And then the inspectors tookcare of the rest.
Like that that process workedfor a while, and I think it just
really fell off the radar, andthen COVID and everything goes
online, and and and and the justthis whole this whole industry
is getting more complicated, notless complicated.
And so the red tape persists,and we get to a point where
(19:21):
yeah, they can get backlogged,but I don't think b seed ever
has been or was the problem.
I think the folks at B Seed aredoing God's work, honestly.
Like, yeah, they were theeasiest part of my journey in
building a house in Detroit,them and PDD.
Shout out to all the folks overthere.
You guys are doing great.
(19:42):
And so there's a part of me thatdoes say, oof, uh, it sounds
like you just made B Seed's lifea lot harder because now you're
gonna have all sorts of folksthat are gonna march in there
and be like, you said same-daypermits without reading the fine
print, right?
Obviously.
I feel for those guys, and I andI hope it doesn't make their
lives more difficult becausethey are doing what they can to
(20:04):
approve a lot of really excitingthings and to voice reason, and
they've got a fine line to bleedwith keeping developers and
money happy and keeping the realfolks who live in Detroit happy,
and that's it, that is a finebalance.
So, like they have a tall orderin their job, and I don't want
to make their job any easier.
So one day building approval,great.
(20:27):
I I think there is some HeyBreck, you said you don't want
to make their job easier, youdon't want to make their job
harder.
Oh, I don't sorry.
Yeah, no, no, I just want tomake sure uh I I really I would
never correct you, but we can'tkeep that on air.
No, but but I'm glad that Islipped up because it reminds me
of something that I do want totalk about here, which is
somebody's gonna bring up atsome point, artificial
(20:49):
intelligence, review my plansame day.
Shut up, Jeff Bezos, and knowyour place.
I do not want artificialintelligence reviewing my
drawings, point blank.
Because if that's where we'regoing, there is no need for plan
reviews.
There is no need for architects,because why doesn't it just draw
the buildings too?
(21:09):
This is a this is a horrorstory.
We're not going that route.
What artificial can artificialintelligence can do is support
in this process by flaggingthings and pulling out code
excerpts and giving architectsresponses that have more
information so that theyunderstand where these comments
are coming from.
There is a support network thatcould smooth this out, but we do
not want artificial intelligencereplacing the roles of these
(21:33):
individuals, nor should that bea conversation that people are
entertaining, because I thinkthat that's just going the wrong
way in this industry with thetools that we have.
Okay.
Right on.
So then let's talk about thebuild already plans.
Okay.
Great.
Scale of economy.
This is what Poulty Homes hasdone for eternity.
(21:56):
Uh and it makes neighborhoodsthat all the houses look the
same.
So, sure, there are the patternbook homes did a fantastic job
of like looking throughdifferent neighborhoods, pulling
out um, you know, examples ofdifferent materials and patterns
and colors.
That's great.
Uh, so that you have uh a littlebit of flexibility in the
(22:18):
character that you have acrossmultiple homes that are built
from the same like builder readyplans.
The the main issue that I havewith builder-ready plans is that
it takes out the conversation ofcontext.
And a building without contextisn't a building at all.
You're just slapping it whereverit needs to go with the same
(22:40):
features.
And so let me just give you letme give you a very simple
example.
Two identical homes, one builton the north side of the street,
one built on the south side ofthe street.
One gets natural daylight intheir windows all day long, in
their living space, in theirkitchen, in their upstairs
bedroom.
The other one gets a faint, dullglow in their living room from
(23:03):
morning until night.
Did you know that a north facinghouse on average spends$300 by
default more in HVAC heating andcooling costs just because it
had the misfortune of facingnorth?
$4,000 a year.
Almost$4,000.
Builder Builder ready plans kindof take out the concept of like
(23:25):
we should look at what's aroundthis house and where this house
is facing first.
So to that end, the things underthe building and the bigger
forces at play need to beanswered first.
And this is what I talk to thefree press about, and what we're
talking to to the city ofDetroit and the housing
(23:46):
revitalization department aboutis that like they're concerned,
and we are concerned, about thepermitting entitlement for their
project.
They're worried about the taxesbeing able to afford this,
they're worried aboutappraisals, they're worried
about if there's a buildingburied on that lot, they're
worried about if they can tapinto Detroit's water and sewer
system and if they can get DTEto drop them power.
(24:09):
You get all that done.
That is the real plan to build athousand homes.
At that point, you could dropanything on top of those, and
you could provide housing forthe masses.
That that is how you unlockhousing.
And so it's sure the buildalready plans and the one-day
approvals, like great.
Like, sure, it's a step in theright direction, but honestly,
(24:29):
like in truth, you need to fixthe bigger problem and you need
to have tax breaks set up.
You need to have banks that arewilling to work with the Detroit
Land Bank Authority andsubordinate to their agreements.
You need to have conversationswith DWSD so that they could
give you right of ways and tapyour water and sewer and connect
your uh your service lines andyour meters up to the building.
(24:51):
You need to have temporary poweron site when you're there
building so that you're notrunning on generators day and
night.
Like you fix that, and we coulddo a thousand homes every year
for the next four years.
And I think that has to be thebigger conversation.
Everything else steps in theright direction.
Glad it's coming up, glad we'retalking about it.
But this whole conversationstarted with Leslie, would this
(25:12):
make my job easier and buildingthe Cochrane home?
And no, I don't think it wouldhave.
I think having support andhaving the people who are
approving drawings communicatingbetter with those inspectors who
are going out to the field,communicating better with the
teams that have to approve youto cut open a street and then
patch that street back up.
There was a metal plate over mystreet in front of my house for
(25:37):
a year and three months becausethe water and sewer department
couldn't coordinate a time toreview it and sign off on it so
we could fill it back up.
That's not from lack of trying.
That's just that is a fullsystem failure, and one of many
in that process.
So fix the system.
And I think that's that's theway I would sue it.
Stop approving buildings, startapproving systems.
(26:02):
Like, what if you signed off ona plan?
A plan.
What if you signed off on aplan?
Let's start there.
Like, here's your floor planlayout.
But what if you could changedoors and windows and porches
and awnings and roof slopes?
You could totally reinvent theamount of daylight that's coming
into different spaces in thatbuilding just by relocating and
resizing the windows.
(26:23):
And we know where the sun is.
That's a that's a matter of factof the universe.
Like it's always gonna risethere, it's always gonna set
there.
Like, I think I think we coulddo a little bit better.
And I think if we just focusedon the things that like the
building department and thearchitects and the engineers are
concerned with, the things thatactually speak to the health,
safety, and welfare of thepeople who use that building,
(26:45):
like your water and yourplumbing, like your kitchens,
your bathrooms.
Like, let's agree on thosethings.
And then let's agree on theconstruction type.
Let's agree on the details ofhow we frame these, how we fire
protect these, how you makefoundations for these.
Let's agree on those things.
And then that becomes standard,and then you could open the
floodgates to any architect andany developer who wants to play
(27:08):
by these rules because it's alllaid out there for you.
It's on a silver platter.
Now you can take it and do thefun creative part on top of it,
and then develop that becausethe hard part has been laid out
for you.
And if we can start approvingsystems, stop approving
buildings, I think we canactually build some homes.
Amazing.
Uh amazing.
(27:28):
I know that the city has someplans um for uh some some new
funds they're putting together.
I mean, they're they're tryingto get this funded and trying to
support it financially.
I know that um, and Jill, I wantto ask you about that um also
here in a quick second.
Um I do want to note, I thinkthat was really profound and
(27:52):
making sure that we have a plan,a system.
I think the system is reallywhere it goes.
Do we believe that by creatingsystems?
Are you talking veryspecifically about a system,
systematic way of constructioncombined with design?
Or are you looking and thinkingsystems like materials, like you
(28:16):
know, the SIP panels like yourhouse is made out of, or a
system of you know, utilizingcontainers, prefabrication
systems?
Go into a little bit more deepdive on that.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's a that's a greatclarification.
I think I'm talking about twodifferent systems.
I'm talking about like buildingmethodologies, like actual
sticks and bricks that make thehomes, and then I'm talking
(28:36):
about a system of like it'sgotta start from the top.
I don't even know what to callit.
It's like a housing approvalsystem, housing approval system,
sure.
But it's it's support that hasto start.
In Detroit, the conversation hasto start with taxes.
If you cannot afford taxes onthis building because of our
millage rate, then we cannotstart construction, period.
(28:57):
Point blank.
So until you're in a tax breakzone or until you have a tax
break tied to the loan on thatnew construction, it's a
no-start.
Step two is is our house buriedon that lot?
Is the soil contaminated?
And do I have water and sewerand electrical access?
If you can't, then that lot isnot buildable.
We need to categorize thesethings.
(29:18):
So you have to start by likeparceling out.
I I had a conversation with oneof the lawyers who who helped
found what became the DetroitLand Bank Authority.
And in that conversation, youknow, we're talking like we have
62,000 properties.
And I said, Well, that's great.
How many of them are in aneighborhood enterprise zone?
An NEZ?
And he was like, Well, I gottago check.
We got to get that list.
(29:39):
And he came back with a list.
And I said, if they're not oneof those lots, then they have to
go into a different tax breakprogram, like a pilot program or
something else.
Those aren't marketable lots.
And so if you just how many wereon that list?
How many were out of the 62,000on that list?
I don't remember the exactnumber, but it was I mean, it
was a fantastic reduction.
(30:00):
It was somewhere around 5,000 orsomething like that.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
It was in that ballpark.
Um, but they but they publishedthat, and that's important.
That is a huge step in the rightdirection because if you recall
my journey, I called the landbank about 12 separate lots.
I would just like walk aroundthe neighborhood and I'd stand
in front of one, I'd parceldata, map it, and then I'd call
them and be like, is this oneavailable?
(30:21):
And every single time out of 12,they said no.
And I'm like, then what am Ilooking for?
Like, you tell me what lots Ican have.
And then that's when they werelike, you can only have the lots
that we market through arealtor.
And I was like, Where's thatlist?
They're like, we don't have alist, we only release them like
one at a time, maybe two at atime.
Oh okay, do you have one I canbid on?
(30:42):
So it's the the whole idea oflike these are builder ready
lots, it's it's a fallacy atbest.
So let's start the conversationthere.
So two systems now on thebuilding side of things, yeah, I
am talking about envelopesystems and structural systems.
Like, don't approve thebuilding, approve the
(31:03):
manufacturer who's manufacturingthe components of the building.
Okay, if you're working withchampion homes, approve champion
homes.
If you're working with guardianstructural technologies, approve
guardian structural technologiesdetails.
Don't approve the actual home,or they're all gonna be the
exact same home in differentcolors.
We see enough of that.
I I think I think we are Cantonfatigued at this point, and we
(31:26):
don't need to see any moreidentical homes.
We would like to see homes ingeneral, but we also don't want
to see the alien spaceships thatare landing in North Corktown
and Island View.
Like, I don't think that theneighbors are stoked about those
either.
So there is a fine balance to behad, but like give a little bit
of trust in the system.
And and I think it is importantin all of our communication with
(31:48):
like advisors on these topics,because this is not like a
business ploy.
This is a business ploy, I wouldhave said all three squared all
the time, every time, right?
It's important that we open thisup to like a bigger category of
people who can play.
No one firm, no one developer,no builder is going to like
terraform Detroit's landscapesingle-handedly.
(32:09):
Right.
Dan Gilbert's tried.
Okay.
So, like, unless you have moremoney than God, uh then join
with the rest of us and like andjoin this effort.
Like, let's stop approving oneplan and build it a hundred
times, and let's start approvinga plan that allows us a hundred
good designs and gives a hundredpeople a home that responds to
its neighbors to the sun and andto the natural factors of the
(32:33):
universe, like wind and air andlight and water.
Amazing.
I know that Jill um has someinformation because I know the
city in this point, they'vethey've actually are putting up
some money.
They've got some funds that havebeen identified and a way to get
processed and funded.
Jill, I think it'd really beimportant for you because we've
(32:53):
even were intimately involvedwith not involved, but
intimately knowledge about oneof the projects that were that
was partially funded utilizingsome of the funds that the city
has has brought to the table.
You want to talk about that?
Yeah, affordable housing trustfund?
Yeah, so this was an executiveorder.
And so essentially this meansthat 100% of the proceeds from
(33:14):
the sales of city-ownedcommercial properties are gonna
go into this affordable housingdevelopment and preservation
trust fund.
So I was lucky enough to tour uhLa Jolla Gardens development.
So that was hosted via ULI,which we're a member of at Three
Squared.
And so that development features42 affordable units in southwest
Detroit.
It's off of West Verner Highway.
(33:35):
It's a beautiful development,and I really want to emphasize
that while it's affordablehousing, it's loaded with
amenities.
It's got a community space onthe first floor, and it's like
the prime factor of thatbuilding is called the jewel.
So it's got these reallybeautiful bright blue fins along
the facade.
And those fins were actuallypart of the process of utilizing
(33:57):
local Detroit welders to help tokeep those fins on the project
because they were trying tovalue engineer them out if they
didn't fit into the budget.
So not only is this projectbeautiful, it's got a community
space, it's got abrick-to-mortar space to support
a local vendor that wants tosupply whatever they're
producing.
Um, so it's like a pop-up stylespace that can be shifted in and
(34:20):
out based on whoever wants tooccupy that space.
They've got a gym, they've gotoffices.
So 42 units, they're fullyoccupied.
So you can see that the demandis there for these style houses.
Um, our our friends over atDesign Think Tank were an
essential part of that project.
And so I was really excited tosee it.
Breck has been in that space aswell.
So we were really happy to seethat they were able to take
(34:43):
advantage of some of thosefunds.
So those some of the statisticsthat we've got here are about
four million dollars annually,which is double what was offered
last year.
So I think that's a hugeinitiative to support developers
that don't just need to makeprojects pencil, they can also
make a project that's going tosupport the community that lives
(35:03):
there.
Oh I'm so excited about thatproject.
Um for two reasons.
Number one, 100% vacant, uhnon-vacant.
I mean, it's fully rented, andwe're seeing just the opposite
on so many other projects thatare being built and high
vacancies and and such.
So this really warms my heart.
(35:25):
And it was, it I I think was itthe first project that was
approved for this for this typeof tax fund?
No, there were multipleprojects.
That was just one off the listthat we've all been to as a
tour.
And uh, we know Design ThinkTank worked on a massive part of
that project.
And I think that it was sounique and special that we got
to uh promote some local weldershere in Detroit to actually make
(35:49):
a really beautiful portion ofthat project happen that makes
it the iconic landmark that itis.
And shout out to Greg as well.
He, I mean, he pulled thatproject through a lot of trials
and tribulations to pull thatoff.
But it but it is another liketrue testament.
There's housing being built allover the city of Detroit, and
(36:09):
there has been consistentsupport for multifamily.
And as we talked to uh formerdirector Bryant, um Antoine
Bryant, who was who was head ofplanning, and then uh Alexa
Bush, who's taken over for himuh in the interim, both of them
have aired their frustrationswith us about yeah, there's tons
of one-bedroom and two-bedroomapartments, but like where does
(36:32):
a family live?
Where does a family start theirtheir their actual life here in
Detroit and stick around?
Because the people who like comein and live in these one-bedroom
apartments, they're not here tohang their hat for good and like
they're here to work for quickenfor their five years and dip.
So we we want to create aneconomy here that that's really
(36:55):
supporting the the the families.
I mean, it's like can we can wecreate like better houses that
actually start to generatestronger neighborhoods?
I think that's the long-termgoal.
And and we know that ownershiphas so much more meaning to it
than than renting.
It's not just a financial play,it's like how much you're
(37:16):
willing to give and invest inyour neighborhood.
Like mowing your lawn is asocial activity as as much as it
is anything else, right?
Like you you you build uh anidentity um through through
bonding with your neighbors andand being a part of your
neighborhood.
And we're just you know, you'renever gonna have that come out
(37:37):
of uh an apartment building.
And and so we're we're startingthe conversation around all of
the vacant lots that areeverywhere around here, and they
come in all sorts of shapes andsizes, and none of them I would
say are like building ready.
So let's uh let's go spade aspade and let's just have an
(37:57):
open and transparentconversation and bring a lot of
people to the table.
And I think that there is awin-win-win-win-win because if
every firm in the city ofDetroit was working full-time,
just nothing but housing, therewould still be plenty of room at
the table.
So join us and join MarySheffield and help support this
(38:18):
initiative.
We're gonna come back.
Well, as I said, we're gonna doan update on this.
Um, we're gonna check in everyso often um uh on the status of
the city of Detroit and housing,and that's gonna bleed into just
Metro Detroit in general becausethere's a lot going on.
We're gonna keep tabs on thatand much, much more in future
episodes.
But until next time, we arethree squared inc and this has
(38:39):
been Innovative Real Estate.
I'm Breck, and these are myco-hosts, Leslie.
And Jill, I couldn't get offmute.
Failed it, failed it.
And special thanks to ourshowrunner and everything good
about this team, Nora.
You you are the glue that holdsus together.
We'll talk to you next time.
Thank you very much.
Thanks, everyone.
(38:59):
Thank you.
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