November 30, 2023 • 42 mins
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Do you like to watch or be watched? And is there ever jealousy about watching a partner with someone else? Hear the answers to that and more as D and Monet share some stories and insight into the challenges (and how to succeed) in watching your partner while in the lifestyle
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Episode Transcript
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Daniel (00:38):
Good evening and welcome to introducing Let's Be Open
podcast.
I am Monet and I am here with myhandsome partner, D.
Hey D, how's it going?
Hello.
How's it going?
I'm doing great.
(00:59):
How was your holiday?
Pretty good.
I had work in the morning andthen, um, the family came over.
We hosted this year.
It was a lot of work andplanning by my wife, getting the
house ready and doing thecooking.
And, but everything, cametogether.
(01:20):
And we, it was a good, yeah,good time.
How about yours?
Yeah.
Mine was really good.
Family, of course, just likeyou.
I did not host.
One of my daughters hosted forthe first time, so it was nice.
Very busy day.
I babysat the grandkids in themorning and then in the
afternoon they came home andstarted prepping and we had what
(01:42):
I consider was a late dinner.
We didn't eat till like around 630 ish, but food was fantastic.
It was really good.
Yeah, it was a nice time.
Yeah.
So the question lots to begrateful for, have you and a
ever had a played onThanksgiving?
Have you ever gone to aThanksgiving party?
(02:04):
Never.
I figured that would be like theworst holiday because.
I, I'm still feeling the effectfrom yesterday.
I was like, today I'm like, Icannot eat another bite.
And, thinking about I was tryingto get into the headset to do
this podcast tonight.
And I'm like, I did not feelsexy.
(02:25):
I did not feel confident, whichI guess we'll talk about in a
minute.
But yeah, so I just figured thisis the worst.
Holiday, maybe weekend to set uplike a play date or go to an
event.
Yeah, like I said, we've neverplayed on Thanksgiving.
However, just today, since youbrought it up, I did schedule a
(02:50):
play date for tomorrow.
Which will be Saturday, theSaturday after Thanksgiving.
That's good.
You got 48 hours to get back ontrack.
It's not the day after.
Yes.
Where I'm looking like a turkeytoo.
No, you look beautiful.
You know that.
You're so sweet.
(03:10):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Anyway.
Hey, I'm really excited abouttonight's episode So basically
it's going to be how to overcomethe challenge of watching your
partner with others That's apretty loaded topic and I think
we're gonna have a gooddiscussion but before that I
(03:31):
think you have Our key partyquestion, right?
Am I right?
Yes.
I picked the key as we weresetting up for tonight's
episode.
Okay.
And not sure if it's a good one,Hey we're learning as we go
along and I've surprised youbefore.
Sometimes you thought a topicwasn't gonna go well, and then
you're like, oh, it came outreally good.
(03:59):
Do you leave your ring on, yourwedding ring on when playing or
do you take it off?
On.
On.
It's always on.
Cause I had a discussion withsomebody and they take it off.
In the lifestyle.
Yes.
(04:20):
Which I thought was veryinteresting.
How long have they been in thelifestyle?
I think they're relatively new,like they've been searching for
maybe the past few months, buthad like about two to three play
partners.
Okay.
So they're fairly new then.
What was their rationale fortaking it off?
(04:44):
Her and her husband playseparate.
So you know, I think that hassomething to do with it.
lIke when they have anagreement, so when she has
permission to find play partnersand when she got home she's
together with him.
I think that has something to dowith it.
(05:06):
We really didn't get in depth,but I thought that was an
interesting.
I'm so nosy.
I'd be like, I would be askingall the questions.
Okay.
Why, yeah.
Why are you hiding your weddingring?
Why are, or are you hiding yourmarital status or interesting?
(05:26):
Yeah.
It's never even occurred to menot to wear it.
So believe it or not, I don'twear a red wedding ring.
Period.
Yeah, I don't.
It's something that jewelry, Ijust have a hard time wearing it
24 7.
My wife and I had a talk beforewe got married and she
understood she didn't take itpersonal and, she trusts me.
(05:48):
So I, yeah, I never, I tried to,but it just Yeah, I just was too
irritating.
I just was I can feel it onFinger throughout the day and I
could not stop focusing.
I am maybe I have sensoryissues.
I don't know but Yeah, so well,here's one for you I you
probably didn't know this but adoes not wear a wedding ring on
(06:12):
his finger What he does is hehas a wedding ring and he wears
it Around his neck on a chaindaily on the daily that's what
he does on the daily now for aspecial occasion when we go to a
wedding or some type of familyevent, then he'll wear it, but
(06:33):
on his finger, but on the daily,it's on.
A chain around his neck becauseyeah, same thing.
It bothers him.
He's doing lots of differentthings and he doesn't want to,
for him to lose it cause he'slost two now.
So he says, okay, how can weavoid this?
So yeah, that's what he does.
He wears it on a chain.
(06:53):
Now, has he come clean eachtime, has he Honey, I lost my
wedding ring, or did you try toreplace it, and then oh.
No, he did come clean, yeah.
I have to hand it to him.
He's quite honest, that's that'swhat you want in a partner.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, for sure.
Definitely in the lifestyle.
All right.
(07:13):
So tonight's topic, this is atopic that you picked out.
I did.
Yes, I did.
So where did this question comefrom?
I'm curious.
We met we've met recently a fewbrand new ish couples.
One was like within three years,I believe the other was.
(07:35):
A month or something.
So a couple of newbie couplesand both women did express the
hesitancy to see their partner,to watch their partner with
another woman.
And so it got me thinkingbecause I was able to share a
little bit about, yep, I knowexactly how you feel.
I know what you're thinking.
(07:58):
Didn't delve too much into itbecause it was, a first meet
meeting.
And so we were all over theplace in our conversation, but
just to let them know, Hey, I'vebeen there.
I know what that's like.
And so I thought, Oh, this wouldbe a good podcast topic because
there's a lot to unpack there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(08:19):
That is when you first, get intothis, there's all kinds of
emotions that you're processing,one's excitement, one is
happiness, joy, but then thereis a little bit of jealousy.
I don't care who you are.
It's a human.
Yeah.
Human reaction.
So I was thinking about this andour first time, so we did have
(08:41):
the conversation and I wascurious when the time came, we
were going to play with ourfirst couple that we met how I
was going to react.
Cause you don't know until ithappens.
And something happened thatcaught me off guard and we never
talked about, and that was Weplayed in separate rooms, so I
(09:08):
remember we were at theirapartment and we already knew
the plan was it's going to be asoft swap because this was our
first time.
This is their first time and Ijust remember Him taking the
lead, him and my wife going offinto the bedroom.
(09:29):
Now we did have the an agreementthat Hoover had the bedroom.
The door was going to be open.
And now I did feel a little bitjealous when they went off
together.
But as far as seeing her andseeing both of them in action.
That never really crossed pathsto years later.
(09:54):
To be honest, I was thinkingabout this, you're probably not
going to believe me.
I think you and A were the firstones where we actually played in
the same room.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we were, this was anhonor.
This was, so we played with thatcouple quite a bit and it was
always they became regulars,right?
I remember you saying that alittle bit.
Yes.
(10:14):
Yeah.
Yeah for a short time up untilthey started having problems,
but Yeah Yes, I never really gotto experience that at first at
the beginning, not saying thatwe were seasoned vets, but we
already, jumped into the pooland I was used to my wife being
(10:35):
with somebody else.
So when it was time, when thefirst time we did play in the
same room I didn't have anyJealousy, I couldn't say Now did
you, was that something youwanted to see?
A little bit, yeah.
Okay, so you were at leastcurious about it.
Yeah.
How about your partner?
How about your wife?
(10:56):
Did she want to see you withothers?
I don't, me personally, no, butone of the things she gets off
on or actually not gets off on,that's probably like the wrong,
that she enjoys, is that shesees the look of excitement with
(11:17):
the, basically the, if mypartner's having a good time.
If she sees that my partner'shaving a good time in the moment
with me, then, she feeds offthat.
Nice.
Yeah.
But there is one highlightthough.
We did play with a couple andthere is these hot tubs you can
rent by the hour.
(11:38):
They're private.
They're up in Pomona.
They're not there anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we went there with thiscouple and it was nice, we,
cause it's private, so you don'thave to worry about being seen.
We brought some drinks, somesnacks, and we were hanging out,
went in the hot tub, everythingwas going good.
(11:58):
And then we wind up switchingpartners and played.
And I just remember.
That I'm sitting on the edge ofthe hot tub.
My partner is going down on meand I look across the hot tub
and sitting on the edge and herpartner was going down on her.
And we just make eye contact andsmile.
(12:20):
And that was a freaking awesomemoment.
And that's probably one of thehighlights, if not the highlight
of this swinging journey.
That's great.
Very good.
I have a story similar to that,which I will get to much later.
But yeah, I have to say that forme, watching my partner has been
(12:43):
quite a journey.
It's been very multi layered andbecause I definitely started out
very resistant to watching.
And basically some of mythoughts were, what if he falls
in love with someone else?
What if she does somethingbetter than I do?
What if she has a better body?
(13:06):
All these what ifs that I playedin my mind that I was
questioning about, so how did Ilearn to overcome?
Which really what are negativethoughts.
So the way that I did that, itwas, step by step and different
steps took different amounts oftime, right?
(13:27):
So I'm just basically trying tocondense this information that's
taken me roughly 12 years towork through.
I'm trying to condense it down,but I would say the first thing
is that it was something that Iwanted to overcome.
So it was a choice.
I had a choice to make.
Do I want to do this?
Do I not want to do this?
(13:48):
And so I did decide, yes, it'ssomething that I wanted to
overcome.
The second thing that I did is,and this is what I encourage
other people to do, is to lookat the reality of your
relationship.
So what's the overall conditionof your relationship?
Is it generally healthy?
(14:08):
Does your partner treat you wellon the daily?
Do you feel appreciated andvalued?
If those things are in place,then you can move forward.
But if you have, majordeficiencies in the relationship
on the daily, then you likelyshould not be in the lifestyle.
(14:29):
Because you need to focus onstrengthening your own
relationship first before youconsider adding.
Others, because as that's acomplicated thing.
Does that make sense?
I'm curious.
Yeah.
I'm curious.
So like, how did you take thatnext step from accepting this
and, okay, I'm going to takethat step forward to seeing him
(14:51):
with another partner becauseit's one thing to process it,
but to actually, take that firststep and actually do it is
another.
Absolutely.
I agree.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
One of the things I wanted toshare tonight is there's a
difference between tolerance andacceptance and I had a Former co
(15:13):
worker who became a friend oldergentleman really nice guy very
intelligent And he broke it downto me in a very simple way
Basically, he said tolerance iswhen we look at something and go
that again Versus acceptance, welook at something and say, Oh,
okay, and there's no emotionalreaction.
(15:36):
There's no disturbance in theforest, if you will, it just is.
And so we are able to accept it.
And so I definitely started outwith that again, when I would be
approached by my partner, hewould express that he was
interested in, playing withsomeone else or seeing someone
else.
(15:56):
And so early on in therelationship, when I started
easing forward, because I knewthat I wanted to explore this
lifestyle, I would grant verbalpermission for aid to go out on
a date with someone else.
But when he would return, Iwould treat him As if he had
(16:19):
been cheating, meaning I was, myattitude was, don't touch me,
just go take a shower.
I don't want to hear anything.
So again, I even went so far asto say to him, actions have
consequences.
So I find it very hard tobelieve, but I believe you.
(16:44):
Yes, exactly.
Next time you see him, you canask him.
He will confirm everything I'mtelling you and probably add
more.
Okay.
So all this to say is that if I,if that's where I started from,
but yet you're sitting here infront of me saying you find that
hard to believe again, I put inwork and it wasn't just one type
(17:07):
of work.
I did a lot of different work.
Oh, but before I move on, here'sthe kicker is that.
I was already seeing otherpeople and I didn't have any
negative consequences.
So that's the kicker.
How come I could do that but Iwas having issues with my
(17:27):
partner?
Maybe because A was a little bitmore experienced than you at the
time.
A lot more.
Yeah, a lot more.
So I'm sure he had partnerswhere he had a chance to process
all this already.
I'm just assuming.
I'm not really sure.
But.
100 percent right.
(17:50):
No, but I guess you're like, Ithink I've mentioned this on
another previous episode, likefor the first time, uh, hearing
my wife make different sounds, alittle bit louder and finding
out like, what was that about?
And then, like I said, I had twooptions and get upset.
I did get jealous.
I'm not gonna lie, but at thesame time I wanted to know what
(18:12):
had happened.
And so therefore, I.
And I decided to talk to herabout it.
She explained you two have verydifferent techniques when it
comes to oral skills.
And this is what he did that Ilike.
And I'm like let me try it.
Let me see if I can be a betterlover.
Because you take thisopportunity to be, to learn, to
(18:32):
become a better lover for yourpartner.
They might like you had achoice.
Yeah.
You had a choice to stay stuckin your jealousy and let that
ruin the experience and createdrama or whatever, or, okay,
yes, I feel jealous noted, but Ilove my partner.
(18:55):
I want to grow and be a betterlover.
Maybe I can mimic that.
And in your case, you were ableto learn something and enhance
your relationship movingforward.
Exactly.
That's a great thing.
So anyway, what I was going tosay too, like I said, so I was
already seeing others withoutany negative consequences.
(19:17):
So basically a set the examplefor me.
And then for me, I can't tellyou really how much.
Time went by, but what I do knowis that I was watching a
introduced us to a woman namedEsther Perel.
I don't know if you've everheard of her.
I think I've mentioned herbefore on previous podcasts, but
(19:41):
she had a Ted talk.
That's very famous.
This Ted talk made her famousand you can look her up.
It's called RethinkingInfidelity, a talk for anyone
who's ever loved.
And I can tell you since thefirst time I listened to her
pod, that particular podcast,I've probably listened to it 20
(20:04):
times because there's so manygreat nuggets.
And it's not lifestyle focused.
It's a talk for anyone who'sever loved.
So pretty much that's all of us,right?
And she also does have aseparate podcast that is couples
related and that one's called,where do we go from here?
(20:28):
So if anybody has an opportunityto listen to that first TED talk
by her, I think you're going tolearn a lot.
And that's where I got myinspiration or my acceptance of
embracing the lifestyle.
Because she talks about thedivorce rate in this country and
just the American approach tomarriage and marriage in
(20:51):
general.
Anyway, it's very interesting.
If you have an opportunity, lookit up.
And then again, like I said, herpodcast, where do we go from
here, which is definitelycouples focused.
And so she talks couplesthrough.
Different types of issues.
So she's very insightful.
She's a therapist by trade.
And then the other book that Iread, which I've mentioned
before, I know numerous times isthe ethical slut, so all of
(21:13):
those things help me to work onmy jealousy, help me to stop.
deflecting onto my partner andbeing focused on what he said,
what he didn't do, whatever thecase may be, and look inside of
myself.
(21:34):
Why am I bothered by thesethings?
What is it triggering inside ofme?
At the time when I experiencedjealousy and it was negative and
created drama, I didn't know howto handle it.
And then we finally had anincident where a woman came into
our life that we both reallyliked and Because of my own
(21:58):
insecurity, that person is nolonger around.
But like we said before, I wasable to do the work and look at,
my jealousy and my insecurity.
So those were all the factorsthat helped contribute to moving
me forward.
There was another There were somany different things going on,
(22:18):
some simultaneously, some rightafter the other.
We had met this other woman andshe was actually both A and I.
So we met this other woman whowas into both A and myself.
And...
I'm not sure if it was the factthat she was bisexual and maybe
(22:45):
that made me feel morecomfortable because she was a
single gal.
And I actually wanted A to gohave his experience with her,
which he did.
And after that first experiencewith her, when he came back,
there wasn't drama.
I didn't, I wasn't upset.
(23:06):
I wasn't.
There was, a side issue wherethere was some miscommunication
about what time he was going tobe home, but that was a
miscommunication.
It wasn't drama because of hisinteraction with her and that
was fine.
thAt was the one that, thatstood out for me.
(23:29):
And then I had an experiencewith her separately and that was
good.
And then we did finally have athreesome with her.
And there was this oneparticular moment for me, and
this is going to be explicit forour podcast.
(23:49):
So I am on the bed laying downand she's down on me and A is
behind her, fucking her and heand I lock eyes.
And this is relates to yourstory that you just shared about
being in the hot tub.
We lock eyes.
(24:10):
And in that moment, this person.
It was a conduit connecting mypartner and I, and that is the
mind blowing part because we'retaught our whole life no bad.
It's going to ruin yourrelationship, yada, yada, yada.
Yet that was not my experiencethat has not been my experience.
(24:35):
This person who was a greatperson, connected.
Drew our relationship closerbecause we had a shared
experience.
It's mind blowing, right?
First of all, I just want to sayapologize everyone for Mona
using the f word Hey, take careof this Okay.
(25:11):
Let me ask you,'cause I wasthinking of something today.
Has there ever been a time whereyou didn't want a, to see you
with another partner?
I don't think so.
I'm I'm an exhibitionist, so Ilike an audience.
(25:32):
there is I don't think so.
It was about like they want tosay.
A year and a half ago, and wedabbled in to polyamory my wife
had a play partner and, she toldme one night Hey, look, we're
meeting on a regular basis,which I already knew about, but
she's See, I'm good for now asfar as meeting anybody else.
(25:55):
So if you want to meet somebodyand, connect with them, you're
more than welcome to.
And I came in it still happenslike a few, maybe like a month
or two down the road, I came incontact with an old friend and
we started connecting and onenight she came over and we were
spending some time together,just the two of us with my wife.
(26:18):
Hold on for a second.
Did she know that you were open?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
So you, that was shared earlyon?
Everything was out in the open.
Both parties knew and I, we wentinto the room and we started
playing.
I guess she would.
Be considered my play partner.
(26:39):
And we started getting a littleintimate and then off of a
sudden the door opens and it'smy wife and she's down to her
bra and panties and she comesunder the bed with us.
And at that moment I was like,holy crap, this is, first it's
hot, but then too, it's I feltexposed just because I was like,
(27:01):
I was the only guy between twogorgeous women.
And and like I said, a littleinsecurity started to, set into
place, but I quickly got overthat, but yeah, and then just my
role with my wife and her.
Play partner back then was theyhave to send me maybe a video
(27:26):
clip or a picture.
So yeah, so that was, that's andthat, that lasted maybe for the
summer.
So it wasn't a lot of polyamory,but Like I said, we have a
little taste of it, but that'sthe only time I ever felt like
exposed out there.
Never really had that thatfeeling as far as me personally,
(27:50):
what do you think that exposurewas about?
Did you feel like the kid thatgot caught with his hand in the
cookie jar?
Was it that type of exposure orsomething else?
I think so, to be honest.
Cause I felt like, oh my God, Iwasn't.
Because usually, my wife's whenI play with somebody else, my
wife's playing with somebodyelse, and the same room or the
(28:11):
next room next door.
And my mind's focused on mypartner, but now it was like
making out with this woman.
And my wife is like on the bed,just like watching.
And, she's getting turned on bythis, but I'm like, Yeah.
That was like a little taboo forme.
Yeah.
And so it was like I said, itwas a fun experience looking
(28:33):
black that I, that we got toexperience that.
But it was, like I said, it wasjust interesting because again,
that was like, I felt like I waslike, that's the only thing I
can explain it.
It was like, I was exposed.
Yeah.
And then as far as the mentalpart of my wife, just mainly
(28:58):
watching, she did play she didparticipate in the play, but for
the most part she just sat thereand just watched.
And again, it comes back to adecision, right?
You have this reactioninternally, Oh my goodness, I'm
exposed.
And you could have easily gottenstuck in that.
(29:21):
feeling and let it ruin theevening, but instead you just,
you made a different decisionand realize, holy crap, this is
every man's true come true.
You made, yeah, you made thatgreat decision.
And then everyone was able torelax and enjoy themselves.
(29:42):
And your wife got what shewanted, which was to watch and
participation when she wantedto, but there was really no
pressure for her to participate.
Yeah.
She was enjoying the show andwhich is interesting because our
first threesome with anothergirl it was I that thought never
(30:03):
crossed my mind But I thinkbecause that was it was so early
on nerves and everything elsethat comes along with, being a
beginner or on my mind.
So not that I say I didn't enjoymyself, but there's a lot more
than it would have beendifferently back then.
Oh, yeah, of course.
(30:24):
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Another thing that I wanted toshare in regards to, working
through my obstacles, myaversion to watching my partner
is, yeah, I referenced the factthat I was already playing with
other partners and then I wouldreturn home.
And of course, a being the manlyman that he is, give me all the
(30:45):
dirt.
I want the play.
I play.
How did this happen?
How did that happen?
Who initiated?
Yada.
And.
In the beginning, early on, Iwas like, we did stuff, like
sexy stuff.
We kissed.
I was very vague, very dodgybased on that, he would ask me
then to record, so at least hecould have an audio, um, that
(31:08):
helped him a lot.
That's pretty standard amonghusbands.
Yes.
LS husbands.
Yes.
No, do you think you could have,no, do you think you couldn't
like.
Share details because you werenervous on how he would take it.
I think that was a lesser factorbecause he had already
(31:28):
demonstrated to me that he wasnot judgmental of me, by
allowing me to have theseexperiences, not only allowing
me, but encouraging me and evenfinding.
Potential dates for me.
He still does that.
He still will see something.
Oh, I think you'll like him.
Check this out and let me knowwhat you think.
And if you're interested, one ofus can contact, so on and so
(31:50):
forth.
And that's just, he's a goodwingman to have around.
Great man.
For sure.
Got to hang out with him moreoften.
wE keep trying anyway, but yeah,so he's a great wingman and
after experiencing that for solong, really years, he could
(32:12):
probably better tell you howmany years, but certainly
wasn't, it was more than one,more than four or five, over
and, listening to Esther andreading the ethical slud and
doing this work on myself.
Coming and then seeing him leadthe way by not being judgmental
of me.
I finally said to myself, wait asecond.
(32:33):
My partner does so much for me.
He wants to do this thing.
Don't I want to return thatfavor to him?
That's the least I can do foreverything that he does for me.
Let him have this experience.
Let him enjoy himself.
I even hate to say, let himenjoy himself, watch him enjoy
himself.
(32:55):
He's going to be happy seeinghim happy makes me happy.
So what?
Is the problem.
Have you ever just watched themnot participate?
You just watched?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have.
I'm curious.
That's fairly new, A newoccurrence for us.
Yeah.
I'm curious, how long would yousay all this took from when you
(33:18):
started the lifestyle to whereyou accepted all this?
Like accepting, watching himplay with somebody else?
Honestly.
A good 10 or 12 years.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Keep in mind also that someyears we did absolutely nothing
(33:40):
lifestyle related.
I know for sure there was atleast three years where we did
nothing because of differentthings that were happening in
our life at that time and familyissues, yada.
So it wasn't like we were goingto parties every week or even
every month.
There were some years we wentonce or twice a year, then the
past few years, as ourrelationship has gotten
(34:01):
healthier, again, startingpoint, the solid relationship as
our relationship got healthier,we came to terms and work
through issues that we needed towork through.
Then we were free to.
Attend more parties, meet morepeople, be more open to
learning, watching the videos,reading the books, having not
only watching the videos andreading the books.
(34:24):
That's a great starting point,for an individual, but then with
your partner to discuss whatyou've watched, what you've
read, asking them, Hey, I heardthis.
What was your take on that?
And again, you're building yourrelationship, building your
rapport, building your security,your loyalty, your commitment,
your devotion, and then you'reable to be free to enjoy the
(34:49):
openness of the lifestyle.
Absolutely.
And I will say this, if you'renew to the lifestyle or if
you're thinking about gettinginto the lifestyle I think the
worst thing you can do is keepall this stuff inside you.
The moment you experiencejealousy or you have any
(35:11):
insecures, open up to yourpartner because the longer you
hold it in, the more it's justgoing to explode when you let it
all out.
I have luckily, and I thinkbecause we don't have a lot of
experience, we haven't seen thatup close.
But we've heard stories fromother friends, other couples
that we were playing with thisother couple and the other.
(35:36):
Female had some issues and theygot into a fight, yeah, so just
be careful.
Yeah, absolutely.
What you said is key.
The more we suppress something,the more power we give it.
Once we bring it to light, oncewe bring it out into the open,
everybody can deal with it.
(35:57):
It's on the table.
Let's talk about this.
What can we do?
How can we address it?
Who needs to adjust?
How can we both adjust?
aGain, simply the rules of, orthe mechanics of working on a
relationship, whether you're inthe lifestyle or not.
Again, it comes down to doingthe work.
Are you interested in doing thework?
(36:18):
Do you want to do the work, andsee what happens when you do it?
Exactly.
All right.
Was there anything else youwanted to add?
Yeah, I think I wanted to talk alittle bit about it's very easy
to, I think you alluded to itearlier on to imagine these
(36:40):
scenarios in your mind, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Discuss them with your partner,but it's not until you actually
go through with it and yeah, itcan be scary It can be
completely frightening, towonder like I was saying Early
when we first started what if hefalls in love?
What if she's better blah blahall these thoughts that we have
(37:01):
in our mind We disempower themby bringing them to light and by
actually having the experience,just like if you want to learn
to swim, you can study swimming,you can watch swimming films,
videos, read books, but it's notuntil you jump into the water
and start.
With your arms and legs thatyou're going to learn, it's not
(37:24):
going to be fun necessarily inthe beginning.
It's not going to be perfect.
It may be messy.
It may get ugly at times.
There may be tears, who knows,depending on the situation,
there can be guilt, whatever.
But once you've had theexperience, then you get to come
(37:45):
back with your partner anddebrief.
How was that for you?
What did you like?
What did you not like?
Do you want it to happen again?
And until you have thatexperience, you're not going to
know for sure.
And even after that firstexperience, it may be I'm not
sure if I want it to happenagain.
(38:05):
And that's okay too, but you getto decide.
It doesn't mean it has to happenthe next day.
Maybe down the road, everyone'sjourney is different, I grew up
very conservative and so I didnot have much experience at all
growing up and so it wasn'tuntil I got into this lifestyle
(38:27):
with my current partner I was 45so I had a lot of Catching up to
do, if you will, and a lot ofdeconstructing of what I thought
I wanted my life to be versuswhat it actually was going to
be.
Does that make sense?
exPectations of other peoplethat were put on me, but what
(38:51):
did I really want?
I had to figure out what Iwanted as a woman, as an adult,
and again, it's aboutintrospection.
And that takes time and effort.
It can be done.
Now, maybe if I had a differentupbringing, if I had been a wild
child and had a lot ofexperience, maybe it wouldn't
have taken me so long to getwhere I am now.
(39:13):
But who knows this is my journeyand I just want to share with
other people because I know I'vemet a lot of people that have my
upbringing that are in thislifestyle and we, exchange
stories and stuff.
It's very interesting.
Yeah, it is.
I just can't picture jealous,conservative money.
(39:33):
I just, that's not who I know.
Yeah.
Let's see, it can be done.
It can be done.
sO I want to encourage people.
On that note, where do you and Ahave planned coming up for the
month of December?
What do we, you mean lifestyle,right?
(39:54):
Of course.
I know we're invited, we'reactually having dinner with a
couple from the writing group.
It'll be our first one on onedinner, so that should be nice,
looking forward to that.
Yeah, that's a little intimate.
Yeah, so it'll be nice.
And then I know Swing Hearts ishaving...
Dirty Santa, right?
(40:15):
Something like that and we willbe going because it's on my
birthday Yeah, birthday so wealready have our babysitter and
Trying to figure I think we'lljust probably get ready here at
the house because if we're goinglike five minutes away from yeah
(40:36):
And then yeah, and then the,yeah, the kids will be out of
the house.
So we'll definitely come backand play.
So yeah, looking forward tothat.
That'd be fun.
A fun night.
Very good.
Alright, so I think that's itfor me.
That's all I have tonight.
Okay.
(40:58):
Alright.
Again, you can follow us you canemail us at letsbeopenpodcasts
at gmail.
com.
And then our Twitter handleis...
Put that up real quick Let's beopen pod.
(41:18):
That's l e t s b e o p e n t o dAnd again ask us your questions
any feedback About the theseshows would be greatly
appreciated and Yeah, so As longas no one complains, we're going
to be making them so I thinkthis is what you said our eighth
(41:42):
episode.
It's our eighth episode Allright, so from monet and I peace
out
Good evening and welcome to introducing Let's Be Open
podcast.
I am Monet and I am here with myhandsome partner, D.
Hey D, how's it going?
Hello.
How's it going?
I'm doing great.
(00:59):
How was your holiday?
Pretty good.
I had work in the morning andthen, um, the family came over.
We hosted this year.
It was a lot of work andplanning by my wife, getting the
house ready and doing thecooking.
And, but everything, cametogether.
(01:20):
And we, it was a good, yeah,good time.
How about yours?
Yeah.
Mine was really good.
Family, of course, just likeyou.
I did not host.
One of my daughters hosted forthe first time, so it was nice.
Very busy day.
I babysat the grandkids in themorning and then in the
afternoon they came home andstarted prepping and we had what
(01:42):
I consider was a late dinner.
We didn't eat till like around 630 ish, but food was fantastic.
It was really good.
Yeah, it was a nice time.
Yeah.
So the question lots to begrateful for, have you and a
ever had a played onThanksgiving?
Have you ever gone to aThanksgiving party?
(02:04):
Never.
I figured that would be like theworst holiday because.
I, I'm still feeling the effectfrom yesterday.
I was like, today I'm like, Icannot eat another bite.
And, thinking about I was tryingto get into the headset to do
this podcast tonight.
And I'm like, I did not feelsexy.
(02:25):
I did not feel confident, whichI guess we'll talk about in a
minute.
But yeah, so I just figured thisis the worst.
Holiday, maybe weekend to set uplike a play date or go to an
event.
Yeah, like I said, we've neverplayed on Thanksgiving.
However, just today, since youbrought it up, I did schedule a
(02:50):
play date for tomorrow.
Which will be Saturday, theSaturday after Thanksgiving.
That's good.
You got 48 hours to get back ontrack.
It's not the day after.
Yes.
Where I'm looking like a turkeytoo.
No, you look beautiful.
You know that.
You're so sweet.
(03:10):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Anyway.
Hey, I'm really excited abouttonight's episode So basically
it's going to be how to overcomethe challenge of watching your
partner with others That's apretty loaded topic and I think
we're gonna have a gooddiscussion but before that I
(03:31):
think you have Our key partyquestion, right?
Am I right?
Yes.
I picked the key as we weresetting up for tonight's
episode.
Okay.
And not sure if it's a good one,Hey we're learning as we go
along and I've surprised youbefore.
Sometimes you thought a topicwasn't gonna go well, and then
you're like, oh, it came outreally good.
(03:59):
Do you leave your ring on, yourwedding ring on when playing or
do you take it off?
On.
On.
It's always on.
Cause I had a discussion withsomebody and they take it off.
In the lifestyle.
Yes.
(04:20):
Which I thought was veryinteresting.
How long have they been in thelifestyle?
I think they're relatively new,like they've been searching for
maybe the past few months, buthad like about two to three play
partners.
Okay.
So they're fairly new then.
What was their rationale fortaking it off?
(04:44):
Her and her husband playseparate.
So you know, I think that hassomething to do with it.
lIke when they have anagreement, so when she has
permission to find play partnersand when she got home she's
together with him.
I think that has something to dowith it.
(05:06):
We really didn't get in depth,but I thought that was an
interesting.
I'm so nosy.
I'd be like, I would be askingall the questions.
Okay.
Why, yeah.
Why are you hiding your weddingring?
Why are, or are you hiding yourmarital status or interesting?
(05:26):
Yeah.
It's never even occurred to menot to wear it.
So believe it or not, I don'twear a red wedding ring.
Period.
Yeah, I don't.
It's something that jewelry, Ijust have a hard time wearing it
24 7.
My wife and I had a talk beforewe got married and she
understood she didn't take itpersonal and, she trusts me.
(05:48):
So I, yeah, I never, I tried to,but it just Yeah, I just was too
irritating.
I just was I can feel it onFinger throughout the day and I
could not stop focusing.
I am maybe I have sensoryissues.
I don't know but Yeah, so well,here's one for you I you
probably didn't know this but adoes not wear a wedding ring on
(06:12):
his finger What he does is hehas a wedding ring and he wears
it Around his neck on a chaindaily on the daily that's what
he does on the daily now for aspecial occasion when we go to a
wedding or some type of familyevent, then he'll wear it, but
(06:33):
on his finger, but on the daily,it's on.
A chain around his neck becauseyeah, same thing.
It bothers him.
He's doing lots of differentthings and he doesn't want to,
for him to lose it cause he'slost two now.
So he says, okay, how can weavoid this?
So yeah, that's what he does.
He wears it on a chain.
(06:53):
Now, has he come clean eachtime, has he Honey, I lost my
wedding ring, or did you try toreplace it, and then oh.
No, he did come clean, yeah.
I have to hand it to him.
He's quite honest, that's that'swhat you want in a partner.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, for sure.
Definitely in the lifestyle.
All right.
(07:13):
So tonight's topic, this is atopic that you picked out.
I did.
Yes, I did.
So where did this question comefrom?
I'm curious.
We met we've met recently a fewbrand new ish couples.
One was like within three years,I believe the other was.
(07:35):
A month or something.
So a couple of newbie couplesand both women did express the
hesitancy to see their partner,to watch their partner with
another woman.
And so it got me thinkingbecause I was able to share a
little bit about, yep, I knowexactly how you feel.
I know what you're thinking.
(07:58):
Didn't delve too much into itbecause it was, a first meet
meeting.
And so we were all over theplace in our conversation, but
just to let them know, Hey, I'vebeen there.
I know what that's like.
And so I thought, Oh, this wouldbe a good podcast topic because
there's a lot to unpack there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(08:19):
That is when you first, get intothis, there's all kinds of
emotions that you're processing,one's excitement, one is
happiness, joy, but then thereis a little bit of jealousy.
I don't care who you are.
It's a human.
Yeah.
Human reaction.
So I was thinking about this andour first time, so we did have
(08:41):
the conversation and I wascurious when the time came, we
were going to play with ourfirst couple that we met how I
was going to react.
Cause you don't know until ithappens.
And something happened thatcaught me off guard and we never
talked about, and that was Weplayed in separate rooms, so I
(09:08):
remember we were at theirapartment and we already knew
the plan was it's going to be asoft swap because this was our
first time.
This is their first time and Ijust remember Him taking the
lead, him and my wife going offinto the bedroom.
(09:29):
Now we did have the an agreementthat Hoover had the bedroom.
The door was going to be open.
And now I did feel a little bitjealous when they went off
together.
But as far as seeing her andseeing both of them in action.
That never really crossed pathsto years later.
(09:54):
To be honest, I was thinkingabout this, you're probably not
going to believe me.
I think you and A were the firstones where we actually played in
the same room.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we were, this was anhonor.
This was, so we played with thatcouple quite a bit and it was
always they became regulars,right?
I remember you saying that alittle bit.
Yes.
(10:14):
Yeah.
Yeah for a short time up untilthey started having problems,
but Yeah Yes, I never really gotto experience that at first at
the beginning, not saying thatwe were seasoned vets, but we
already, jumped into the pooland I was used to my wife being
(10:35):
with somebody else.
So when it was time, when thefirst time we did play in the
same room I didn't have anyJealousy, I couldn't say Now did
you, was that something youwanted to see?
A little bit, yeah.
Okay, so you were at leastcurious about it.
Yeah.
How about your partner?
How about your wife?
(10:56):
Did she want to see you withothers?
I don't, me personally, no, butone of the things she gets off
on or actually not gets off on,that's probably like the wrong,
that she enjoys, is that shesees the look of excitement with
(11:17):
the, basically the, if mypartner's having a good time.
If she sees that my partner'shaving a good time in the moment
with me, then, she feeds offthat.
Nice.
Yeah.
But there is one highlightthough.
We did play with a couple andthere is these hot tubs you can
rent by the hour.
(11:38):
They're private.
They're up in Pomona.
They're not there anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But we went there with thiscouple and it was nice, we,
cause it's private, so you don'thave to worry about being seen.
We brought some drinks, somesnacks, and we were hanging out,
went in the hot tub, everythingwas going good.
(11:58):
And then we wind up switchingpartners and played.
And I just remember.
That I'm sitting on the edge ofthe hot tub.
My partner is going down on meand I look across the hot tub
and sitting on the edge and herpartner was going down on her.
And we just make eye contact andsmile.
(12:20):
And that was a freaking awesomemoment.
And that's probably one of thehighlights, if not the highlight
of this swinging journey.
That's great.
Very good.
I have a story similar to that,which I will get to much later.
But yeah, I have to say that forme, watching my partner has been
(12:43):
quite a journey.
It's been very multi layered andbecause I definitely started out
very resistant to watching.
And basically some of mythoughts were, what if he falls
in love with someone else?
What if she does somethingbetter than I do?
What if she has a better body?
(13:06):
All these what ifs that I playedin my mind that I was
questioning about, so how did Ilearn to overcome?
Which really what are negativethoughts.
So the way that I did that, itwas, step by step and different
steps took different amounts oftime, right?
(13:27):
So I'm just basically trying tocondense this information that's
taken me roughly 12 years towork through.
I'm trying to condense it down,but I would say the first thing
is that it was something that Iwanted to overcome.
So it was a choice.
I had a choice to make.
Do I want to do this?
Do I not want to do this?
(13:48):
And so I did decide, yes, it'ssomething that I wanted to
overcome.
The second thing that I did is,and this is what I encourage
other people to do, is to lookat the reality of your
relationship.
So what's the overall conditionof your relationship?
Is it generally healthy?
(14:08):
Does your partner treat you wellon the daily?
Do you feel appreciated andvalued?
If those things are in place,then you can move forward.
But if you have, majordeficiencies in the relationship
on the daily, then you likelyshould not be in the lifestyle.
(14:29):
Because you need to focus onstrengthening your own
relationship first before youconsider adding.
Others, because as that's acomplicated thing.
Does that make sense?
I'm curious.
Yeah.
I'm curious.
So like, how did you take thatnext step from accepting this
and, okay, I'm going to takethat step forward to seeing him
(14:51):
with another partner becauseit's one thing to process it,
but to actually, take that firststep and actually do it is
another.
Absolutely.
I agree.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
One of the things I wanted toshare tonight is there's a
difference between tolerance andacceptance and I had a Former co
(15:13):
worker who became a friend oldergentleman really nice guy very
intelligent And he broke it downto me in a very simple way
Basically, he said tolerance iswhen we look at something and go
that again Versus acceptance, welook at something and say, Oh,
okay, and there's no emotionalreaction.
(15:36):
There's no disturbance in theforest, if you will, it just is.
And so we are able to accept it.
And so I definitely started outwith that again, when I would be
approached by my partner, hewould express that he was
interested in, playing withsomeone else or seeing someone
else.
(15:56):
And so early on in therelationship, when I started
easing forward, because I knewthat I wanted to explore this
lifestyle, I would grant verbalpermission for aid to go out on
a date with someone else.
But when he would return, Iwould treat him As if he had
(16:19):
been cheating, meaning I was, myattitude was, don't touch me,
just go take a shower.
I don't want to hear anything.
So again, I even went so far asto say to him, actions have
consequences.
So I find it very hard tobelieve, but I believe you.
(16:44):
Yes, exactly.
Next time you see him, you canask him.
He will confirm everything I'mtelling you and probably add
more.
Okay.
So all this to say is that if I,if that's where I started from,
but yet you're sitting here infront of me saying you find that
hard to believe again, I put inwork and it wasn't just one type
(17:07):
of work.
I did a lot of different work.
Oh, but before I move on, here'sthe kicker is that.
I was already seeing otherpeople and I didn't have any
negative consequences.
So that's the kicker.
How come I could do that but Iwas having issues with my
(17:27):
partner?
Maybe because A was a little bitmore experienced than you at the
time.
A lot more.
Yeah, a lot more.
So I'm sure he had partnerswhere he had a chance to process
all this already.
I'm just assuming.
I'm not really sure.
But.
100 percent right.
(17:50):
No, but I guess you're like, Ithink I've mentioned this on
another previous episode, likefor the first time, uh, hearing
my wife make different sounds, alittle bit louder and finding
out like, what was that about?
And then, like I said, I had twooptions and get upset.
I did get jealous.
I'm not gonna lie, but at thesame time I wanted to know what
(18:12):
had happened.
And so therefore, I.
And I decided to talk to herabout it.
She explained you two have verydifferent techniques when it
comes to oral skills.
And this is what he did that Ilike.
And I'm like let me try it.
Let me see if I can be a betterlover.
Because you take thisopportunity to be, to learn, to
(18:32):
become a better lover for yourpartner.
They might like you had achoice.
Yeah.
You had a choice to stay stuckin your jealousy and let that
ruin the experience and createdrama or whatever, or, okay,
yes, I feel jealous noted, but Ilove my partner.
(18:55):
I want to grow and be a betterlover.
Maybe I can mimic that.
And in your case, you were ableto learn something and enhance
your relationship movingforward.
Exactly.
That's a great thing.
So anyway, what I was going tosay too, like I said, so I was
already seeing others withoutany negative consequences.
(19:17):
So basically a set the examplefor me.
And then for me, I can't tellyou really how much.
Time went by, but what I do knowis that I was watching a
introduced us to a woman namedEsther Perel.
I don't know if you've everheard of her.
I think I've mentioned herbefore on previous podcasts, but
(19:41):
she had a Ted talk.
That's very famous.
This Ted talk made her famousand you can look her up.
It's called RethinkingInfidelity, a talk for anyone
who's ever loved.
And I can tell you since thefirst time I listened to her
pod, that particular podcast,I've probably listened to it 20
(20:04):
times because there's so manygreat nuggets.
And it's not lifestyle focused.
It's a talk for anyone who'sever loved.
So pretty much that's all of us,right?
And she also does have aseparate podcast that is couples
related and that one's called,where do we go from here?
(20:28):
So if anybody has an opportunityto listen to that first TED talk
by her, I think you're going tolearn a lot.
And that's where I got myinspiration or my acceptance of
embracing the lifestyle.
Because she talks about thedivorce rate in this country and
just the American approach tomarriage and marriage in
(20:51):
general.
Anyway, it's very interesting.
If you have an opportunity, lookit up.
And then again, like I said, herpodcast, where do we go from
here, which is definitelycouples focused.
And so she talks couplesthrough.
Different types of issues.
So she's very insightful.
She's a therapist by trade.
And then the other book that Iread, which I've mentioned
before, I know numerous times isthe ethical slut, so all of
(21:13):
those things help me to work onmy jealousy, help me to stop.
deflecting onto my partner andbeing focused on what he said,
what he didn't do, whatever thecase may be, and look inside of
myself.
(21:34):
Why am I bothered by thesethings?
What is it triggering inside ofme?
At the time when I experiencedjealousy and it was negative and
created drama, I didn't know howto handle it.
And then we finally had anincident where a woman came into
our life that we both reallyliked and Because of my own
(21:58):
insecurity, that person is nolonger around.
But like we said before, I wasable to do the work and look at,
my jealousy and my insecurity.
So those were all the factorsthat helped contribute to moving
me forward.
There was another There were somany different things going on,
(22:18):
some simultaneously, some rightafter the other.
We had met this other woman andshe was actually both A and I.
So we met this other woman whowas into both A and myself.
And...
I'm not sure if it was the factthat she was bisexual and maybe
(22:45):
that made me feel morecomfortable because she was a
single gal.
And I actually wanted A to gohave his experience with her,
which he did.
And after that first experiencewith her, when he came back,
there wasn't drama.
I didn't, I wasn't upset.
(23:06):
I wasn't.
There was, a side issue wherethere was some miscommunication
about what time he was going tobe home, but that was a
miscommunication.
It wasn't drama because of hisinteraction with her and that
was fine.
thAt was the one that, thatstood out for me.
(23:29):
And then I had an experiencewith her separately and that was
good.
And then we did finally have athreesome with her.
And there was this oneparticular moment for me, and
this is going to be explicit forour podcast.
(23:49):
So I am on the bed laying downand she's down on me and A is
behind her, fucking her and heand I lock eyes.
And this is relates to yourstory that you just shared about
being in the hot tub.
We lock eyes.
(24:10):
And in that moment, this person.
It was a conduit connecting mypartner and I, and that is the
mind blowing part because we'retaught our whole life no bad.
It's going to ruin yourrelationship, yada, yada, yada.
Yet that was not my experiencethat has not been my experience.
(24:35):
This person who was a greatperson, connected.
Drew our relationship closerbecause we had a shared
experience.
It's mind blowing, right?
First of all, I just want to sayapologize everyone for Mona
using the f word Hey, take careof this Okay.
(25:11):
Let me ask you,'cause I wasthinking of something today.
Has there ever been a time whereyou didn't want a, to see you
with another partner?
I don't think so.
I'm I'm an exhibitionist, so Ilike an audience.
(25:32):
there is I don't think so.
It was about like they want tosay.
A year and a half ago, and wedabbled in to polyamory my wife
had a play partner and, she toldme one night Hey, look, we're
meeting on a regular basis,which I already knew about, but
she's See, I'm good for now asfar as meeting anybody else.
(25:55):
So if you want to meet somebodyand, connect with them, you're
more than welcome to.
And I came in it still happenslike a few, maybe like a month
or two down the road, I came incontact with an old friend and
we started connecting and onenight she came over and we were
spending some time together,just the two of us with my wife.
(26:18):
Hold on for a second.
Did she know that you were open?
Yes.
Oh, okay.
So you, that was shared earlyon?
Everything was out in the open.
Both parties knew and I, we wentinto the room and we started
playing.
I guess she would.
Be considered my play partner.
(26:39):
And we started getting a littleintimate and then off of a
sudden the door opens and it'smy wife and she's down to her
bra and panties and she comesunder the bed with us.
And at that moment I was like,holy crap, this is, first it's
hot, but then too, it's I feltexposed just because I was like,
(27:01):
I was the only guy between twogorgeous women.
And and like I said, a littleinsecurity started to, set into
place, but I quickly got overthat, but yeah, and then just my
role with my wife and her.
Play partner back then was theyhave to send me maybe a video
(27:26):
clip or a picture.
So yeah, so that was, that's andthat, that lasted maybe for the
summer.
So it wasn't a lot of polyamory,but Like I said, we have a
little taste of it, but that'sthe only time I ever felt like
exposed out there.
Never really had that thatfeeling as far as me personally,
(27:50):
what do you think that exposurewas about?
Did you feel like the kid thatgot caught with his hand in the
cookie jar?
Was it that type of exposure orsomething else?
I think so, to be honest.
Cause I felt like, oh my God, Iwasn't.
Because usually, my wife's whenI play with somebody else, my
wife's playing with somebodyelse, and the same room or the
(28:11):
next room next door.
And my mind's focused on mypartner, but now it was like
making out with this woman.
And my wife is like on the bed,just like watching.
And, she's getting turned on bythis, but I'm like, Yeah.
That was like a little taboo forme.
Yeah.
And so it was like I said, itwas a fun experience looking
(28:33):
black that I, that we got toexperience that.
But it was, like I said, it wasjust interesting because again,
that was like, I felt like I waslike, that's the only thing I
can explain it.
It was like, I was exposed.
Yeah.
And then as far as the mentalpart of my wife, just mainly
(28:58):
watching, she did play she didparticipate in the play, but for
the most part she just sat thereand just watched.
And again, it comes back to adecision, right?
You have this reactioninternally, Oh my goodness, I'm
exposed.
And you could have easily gottenstuck in that.
(29:21):
feeling and let it ruin theevening, but instead you just,
you made a different decisionand realize, holy crap, this is
every man's true come true.
You made, yeah, you made thatgreat decision.
And then everyone was able torelax and enjoy themselves.
(29:42):
And your wife got what shewanted, which was to watch and
participation when she wantedto, but there was really no
pressure for her to participate.
Yeah.
She was enjoying the show andwhich is interesting because our
first threesome with anothergirl it was I that thought never
(30:03):
crossed my mind But I thinkbecause that was it was so early
on nerves and everything elsethat comes along with, being a
beginner or on my mind.
So not that I say I didn't enjoymyself, but there's a lot more
than it would have beendifferently back then.
Oh, yeah, of course.
(30:24):
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah.
Another thing that I wanted toshare in regards to, working
through my obstacles, myaversion to watching my partner
is, yeah, I referenced the factthat I was already playing with
other partners and then I wouldreturn home.
And of course, a being the manlyman that he is, give me all the
(30:45):
dirt.
I want the play.
I play.
How did this happen?
How did that happen?
Who initiated?
Yada.
And.
In the beginning, early on, Iwas like, we did stuff, like
sexy stuff.
We kissed.
I was very vague, very dodgybased on that, he would ask me
then to record, so at least hecould have an audio, um, that
(31:08):
helped him a lot.
That's pretty standard amonghusbands.
Yes.
LS husbands.
Yes.
No, do you think you could have,no, do you think you couldn't
like.
Share details because you werenervous on how he would take it.
I think that was a lesser factorbecause he had already
(31:28):
demonstrated to me that he wasnot judgmental of me, by
allowing me to have theseexperiences, not only allowing
me, but encouraging me and evenfinding.
Potential dates for me.
He still does that.
He still will see something.
Oh, I think you'll like him.
Check this out and let me knowwhat you think.
And if you're interested, one ofus can contact, so on and so
(31:50):
forth.
And that's just, he's a goodwingman to have around.
Great man.
For sure.
Got to hang out with him moreoften.
wE keep trying anyway, but yeah,so he's a great wingman and
after experiencing that for solong, really years, he could
(32:12):
probably better tell you howmany years, but certainly
wasn't, it was more than one,more than four or five, over
and, listening to Esther andreading the ethical slud and
doing this work on myself.
Coming and then seeing him leadthe way by not being judgmental
of me.
I finally said to myself, wait asecond.
(32:33):
My partner does so much for me.
He wants to do this thing.
Don't I want to return thatfavor to him?
That's the least I can do foreverything that he does for me.
Let him have this experience.
Let him enjoy himself.
I even hate to say, let himenjoy himself, watch him enjoy
himself.
(32:55):
He's going to be happy seeinghim happy makes me happy.
So what?
Is the problem.
Have you ever just watched themnot participate?
You just watched?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have.
I'm curious.
That's fairly new, A newoccurrence for us.
Yeah.
I'm curious, how long would yousay all this took from when you
(33:18):
started the lifestyle to whereyou accepted all this?
Like accepting, watching himplay with somebody else?
Honestly.
A good 10 or 12 years.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Keep in mind also that someyears we did absolutely nothing
(33:40):
lifestyle related.
I know for sure there was atleast three years where we did
nothing because of differentthings that were happening in
our life at that time and familyissues, yada.
So it wasn't like we were goingto parties every week or even
every month.
There were some years we wentonce or twice a year, then the
past few years, as ourrelationship has gotten
(34:01):
healthier, again, startingpoint, the solid relationship as
our relationship got healthier,we came to terms and work
through issues that we needed towork through.
Then we were free to.
Attend more parties, meet morepeople, be more open to
learning, watching the videos,reading the books, having not
only watching the videos andreading the books.
(34:24):
That's a great starting point,for an individual, but then with
your partner to discuss whatyou've watched, what you've
read, asking them, Hey, I heardthis.
What was your take on that?
And again, you're building yourrelationship, building your
rapport, building your security,your loyalty, your commitment,
your devotion, and then you'reable to be free to enjoy the
(34:49):
openness of the lifestyle.
Absolutely.
And I will say this, if you'renew to the lifestyle or if
you're thinking about gettinginto the lifestyle I think the
worst thing you can do is keepall this stuff inside you.
The moment you experiencejealousy or you have any
(35:11):
insecures, open up to yourpartner because the longer you
hold it in, the more it's justgoing to explode when you let it
all out.
I have luckily, and I thinkbecause we don't have a lot of
experience, we haven't seen thatup close.
But we've heard stories fromother friends, other couples
that we were playing with thisother couple and the other.
(35:36):
Female had some issues and theygot into a fight, yeah, so just
be careful.
Yeah, absolutely.
What you said is key.
The more we suppress something,the more power we give it.
Once we bring it to light, oncewe bring it out into the open,
everybody can deal with it.
(35:57):
It's on the table.
Let's talk about this.
What can we do?
How can we address it?
Who needs to adjust?
How can we both adjust?
aGain, simply the rules of, orthe mechanics of working on a
relationship, whether you're inthe lifestyle or not.
Again, it comes down to doingthe work.
Are you interested in doing thework?
(36:18):
Do you want to do the work, andsee what happens when you do it?
Exactly.
All right.
Was there anything else youwanted to add?
Yeah, I think I wanted to talk alittle bit about it's very easy
to, I think you alluded to itearlier on to imagine these
(36:40):
scenarios in your mind, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Discuss them with your partner,but it's not until you actually
go through with it and yeah, itcan be scary It can be
completely frightening, towonder like I was saying Early
when we first started what if hefalls in love?
What if she's better blah blahall these thoughts that we have
(37:01):
in our mind We disempower themby bringing them to light and by
actually having the experience,just like if you want to learn
to swim, you can study swimming,you can watch swimming films,
videos, read books, but it's notuntil you jump into the water
and start.
With your arms and legs thatyou're going to learn, it's not
(37:24):
going to be fun necessarily inthe beginning.
It's not going to be perfect.
It may be messy.
It may get ugly at times.
There may be tears, who knows,depending on the situation,
there can be guilt, whatever.
But once you've had theexperience, then you get to come
(37:45):
back with your partner anddebrief.
How was that for you?
What did you like?
What did you not like?
Do you want it to happen again?
And until you have thatexperience, you're not going to
know for sure.
And even after that firstexperience, it may be I'm not
sure if I want it to happenagain.
(38:05):
And that's okay too, but you getto decide.
It doesn't mean it has to happenthe next day.
Maybe down the road, everyone'sjourney is different, I grew up
very conservative and so I didnot have much experience at all
growing up and so it wasn'tuntil I got into this lifestyle
(38:27):
with my current partner I was 45so I had a lot of Catching up to
do, if you will, and a lot ofdeconstructing of what I thought
I wanted my life to be versuswhat it actually was going to
be.
Does that make sense?
exPectations of other peoplethat were put on me, but what
(38:51):
did I really want?
I had to figure out what Iwanted as a woman, as an adult,
and again, it's aboutintrospection.
And that takes time and effort.
It can be done.
Now, maybe if I had a differentupbringing, if I had been a wild
child and had a lot ofexperience, maybe it wouldn't
have taken me so long to getwhere I am now.
(39:13):
But who knows this is my journeyand I just want to share with
other people because I know I'vemet a lot of people that have my
upbringing that are in thislifestyle and we, exchange
stories and stuff.
It's very interesting.
Yeah, it is.
I just can't picture jealous,conservative money.
(39:33):
I just, that's not who I know.
Yeah.
Let's see, it can be done.
It can be done.
sO I want to encourage people.
On that note, where do you and Ahave planned coming up for the
month of December?
What do we, you mean lifestyle,right?
(39:54):
Of course.
I know we're invited, we'reactually having dinner with a
couple from the writing group.
It'll be our first one on onedinner, so that should be nice,
looking forward to that.
Yeah, that's a little intimate.
Yeah, so it'll be nice.
And then I know Swing Hearts ishaving...
Dirty Santa, right?
(40:15):
Something like that and we willbe going because it's on my
birthday Yeah, birthday so wealready have our babysitter and
Trying to figure I think we'lljust probably get ready here at
the house because if we're goinglike five minutes away from yeah
(40:36):
And then yeah, and then the,yeah, the kids will be out of
the house.
So we'll definitely come backand play.
So yeah, looking forward tothat.
That'd be fun.
A fun night.
Very good.
Alright, so I think that's itfor me.
That's all I have tonight.
Okay.
(40:58):
Alright.
Again, you can follow us you canemail us at letsbeopenpodcasts
at gmail.
com.
And then our Twitter handleis...
Put that up real quick Let's beopen pod.
(41:18):
That's l e t s b e o p e n t o dAnd again ask us your questions
any feedback About the theseshows would be greatly
appreciated and Yeah, so As longas no one complains, we're going
to be making them so I thinkthis is what you said our eighth
(41:42):
episode.
It's our eighth episode Allright, so from monet and I peace
out
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