March 29, 2026 • 53 mins
Join us for expert honest analysis and commentary about today's politics, news, economy, healthcare and current events.
(00:00) New laws in New Jersey that are designed to limit ICE actions, access and activities are discussed.
(04:43) William Angus, Co-Founder of the No ICE North Jersey Alliance explains how a proposed ICE immigrant detention center in Roxbury New Jersey would impact the region, affect people's lives by the strain and risks to the infrastructure as well as natural resources and gives an update on the resistance to the project.
(22:18) Joanne Frederick, CEO of Government Market Strategies, talks about the importance of local rural hospitals, the ways they're endangered, how a federal government program will strengthen and save these hospitals along with the ways that the hospitals will be using the federal funds they receive.
(33:16) Dr. Nizam Missaghi, Chairman Of The Board of the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center and Chairman of the Simpatico Foundation, shares his experiences of growing up in Iran during the Islamic Revolution, what the Iranian people are experiencing and what they hope for.
(46:28) Chris DeBello presents how the Bible reveals the wants and expectations of Jesus.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to Issues and Ideas.
I'm Christabello.
This past Wednesday, New Jerseyjoined states including
California, Illinois, New York,Oregon, Washington, Colorado,
Connecticut, Maryland, Vermont,Maine, New Mexico, and let's
call them melting ice.
Passing laws that limit iceactivities in their respective
states.
As I said this past Wednesday,New Jersey Governor Mikey
(00:22):
Sherrill signed a trio ofimmigration laws that r really
restrict when New Jersey cancooperate with U.S.
immigration customs enforcementagents.
People calling this one of themost aggressive state pushbacks
against ICE.
Looking here, one law is S3114,it bars both local and federal
(00:44):
law enforcement officers,including ICE, from wearing
masks during interactions withthe public in the state.
Another bill, S-3522, prohibitsState agencies from sharing a
person's immigration statuswithout a warrant.
And then we have S-3521 thatbars local police from assisting
Federal immigration authoritieswithout a judicial warrant for
(01:09):
making the State's existingimmigrant trust directive policy
permanent.
And as you would expect, theU.S.
Department of Homeland Securitydid have a reaction to all this,
saying sanctuary politiciansattempted to ban our Federal law
enforcement from wearing masksis despicable and a flagrant
attempt to endanger ourofficers.
(01:30):
Then why are they going into theairports without masks?
Are there no dangers there?
Anyway, continuing with theirstatement to be crystal clear,
we will not abide by thisunconstitutional ban.
Also said the agency'saggressive posture was the
result of local police notworking with them.
So it was the local lawenforcement fault that all this
(01:52):
stuff is happening.
So this trio of new laws adds towhat's already taken place over
the past year.
New Jersey's efforts to restrictICE activities in the state, and
(02:14):
that includes the executiveorder that Carroll signed that
blocked the agency from stateproperty, and we'll get into
this in a moment.
A lawsuit aimed at stopping adetention center in Roxbury from
being built with that executiveorder blocking the ICE agents
from state property.
Yeah, the Trump administrationsued the state over that one, as
(02:36):
there's no doubt that theadministration will sue over
this new trio of laws.
Of course he will.
But when you consider thebatting average of the Trump
D.O.J.
puppets in court cases, evenjust with grand jury
indictments, kind of have nodoubt that Governor Sherrill
believes the odds are certainlywith her in New Jersey.
Now, while a lot of people agreewith all these laws, there is
(02:59):
opposition.
Again, as what you wouldsuspect.
On the Republican side, theSembleman Gary Meyer, who
represents Ocean County,critical law that will cut down
on intelligence sharing betweenthe state and ICE officers and
other federal agencies.
He said this bill blocks state,county, and local law
enforcement from coordinatingwith federal agencies.
Proof Trenton Democrats havelearned nothing from recent
(03:22):
history.
The 911 Commission made clearthat siloed information and lack
of cooperation puts lives atrisk.
Again, I refer to some of theviolent and threatening actions
of ICE agents.
So whose lives are actuallybeing put at risk here.
Anyway, we also have StateSenator Michael Tester.
(03:42):
He represents Cumberland Countysaying here the governor's
decision to sign these bills andthe laws is deeply disappointing
and frankly dangerous for NewJersey families.
It erects barriers wherecooperation should exist,
creating serious risks forpublic safety that puts
communities in harm's way.
New Jersey deserves better thanperformative legislation that
(04:06):
prioritizes politics over publicsafety.
You know what the curse is withthe opposition?
I mean it's fine to opposesomething no problem with that.
Welcome to America.
You're you're encouraged tospeak your views and share your
thoughts and ideas.
But to make blanket statements,generalized statements like
(04:27):
that, don't you think that thatleads to an increase of bigotry
and racism, making people thinkthat all people who are
non-white and not born inAmerica are going to commit
violent, deadly acts against NewJersey families.
As I just mentioned in the showOpen, New Jersey has taken legal
action regarding the plannedimmigrant detention center,
(04:49):
which will be located inRoxbury, New Jersey.
If you're listening elsewhere,it's the northwest part of the
state.
Others say that there are laws,there are policies that are
required to be followed byeverybody, which hasn't
happened.
When it comes to this proposedproject, the first guest today
(05:10):
has been certainly a leader inthe vocal and other efforts to
push back against this plannedimmigrant detention center.
He is the co-founder of the NoIce North Jersey Alliance,
William Angus.
Thanks for coming back, Bill.
SPEAKER_05 (05:25):
Glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
And with the website, we have it on the home
page, no hyphen, roxbury.com.
Let's talk about the website.
Let's start with the laws too,Bill, because this is addressing
major points.
As I said in the introduction,the belief is even the
Constitution supports thatfederal federal trumps states.
(05:50):
But if there are federal andstate laws that aren't being
followed, well, the federal hasa problem.
That's what this lawsuit isreally trying to point out,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_05 (05:59):
Uh that's exactly correct.
Um so uh we have been uh pr uhpressing uh Governor Cheryl to
take this sort of action in ourdiscussions with her um to
follow along.
Um this follows similar actionin Pennsylvania and Maryland.
And I believe in Maryland theyactually have a stop work order,
(06:22):
uh if I recall correctly.
Um Because as you said, uh a lotof times local uh ordinances and
laws can be overstepped by thefeds, but when it comes to
federal laws, that's not so easyfor them to bypass.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
And one of those being the National Environmental
Policy Act requires federalagencies to assess environmental
impacts before taking on a majorconstruction project.
The Department of HomelandSecurity says, well, we did
that.
Small problem is there's noreport saying what they did.
SPEAKER_05 (06:58):
Yeah, uh the that that is a recurrent problem with
DHS.
They say, oh, we did this, we'vespoken with this uh with the
local officials, we've uhsubmitted uh reports, and when
you ask the local officials orthe agencies involved, they say
uh no, they haven't.
Um so uh the Muskone Kong SewerAuthority, which governs the
(07:20):
sewer and water for Roxbury andsix other towns, uh recently uh
had stated that they hadreceived no information, no
requests, no investigations fromDHS after they had publicly said
that they had done so.
So it's not even trust butverify, it's just verify.
(07:42):
There's no trust there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
I'm gonna put the document up on our downloads
page over at a website too, sofor you listening, you can check
this out in detail.
And if you're in other statesand communities, learn from it
and take the lead here too.
The Administrative Procedure Actby failing to consider the
important aspects of thesituation, the inappropriateness
of the site, which we'll get tothat in a moment.
The IntergovernmentalCooperation Act violation
(08:06):
requires DHS to have consultedstate and local officials, and
their uh broken laws regardingthe Immigration Nationality Act
by violating ICE's own publicstandards for what a facility is
to be, which case in point,Bill, this proposed location, at
least in current state ofaffairs, has a grand total of
(08:26):
four toilets for fifteen hundredpeople.
That doesn't sound like that'sgoing to work out too good.
SPEAKER_05 (08:32):
No, and and that's that's uh honestly the tip of
the iceberg, but you know, forthe purposes of their lawsuit,
uh it's more than sufficient toraise legal questions.
Um the the warehouse was onlydesigned uh to handle, you know,
40 employees, give or take.
And so it has appropriate levelsof you know bathroom facilities
(08:56):
and sewer capacity and alsowater connections for that.
Um you know, there could be manyhundreds of uh DHS ice agents uh
there uh because this is a thisis effectively a prison.
Um so it's not just thedetainees, which uh they say is
gonna be 1,500.
(09:17):
Uh you could easily have, youknow, four or five hundred um
ICE uh ice agents in charge ofthe facility.
So you're talking in excess of2,000 people.
That's 50 times the the usagethat was expected.
And you know, these are notinsignificant concerns because
(09:41):
um, you know, without gettingtoo into the weeds, uh, you
know, the the Muscon Eccon SewerAuthority manages the the amount
of water that each town canhave.
And Roxbury is currently using93% of its allocated water
supply.
Um this is going to push themdangerously close to 100%.
(10:01):
And the town has numerous um uhaffordable housing uh
obligations that it's tryingthey're trying to meet uh with
the state.
And what what are those peoplegonna do for water and sewer?
Um so it puts it puts Roxbury ina very bad position of you know
(10:22):
maybe not being able to becompliant with the affordable
housing uh responsibilities.
Um it may have to, you know,purchase water rights from other
towns if they're even willing todo so.
You can't just manufacturewater, you know, if it's not
there, it's not there.
So this affects everybody, um uhnot just in Roxbury, but it, you
(10:47):
know, in the other six towns.
And honestly, it's part of thehighlands, so it affects anybody
who gets drinking water fromthat area, which by the way is
about 75% of the New Jerseypopulace gets some of its water
from the Highlands.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
We also have to have to think, too, what what strain
is this facility going to put onthe electric grid for the for
not just the area but the forthe region?
SPEAKER_05 (11:12):
I I mean you you name an an aspect uh and and
it's going to impact it.
Uh there's estimates of you knowsignificant uh truck traffic on
the highway getting in and out.
That's gonna create noisepollution for the nearby
neighbors, um, it's going tocreate traffic problems, uh
(11:34):
impact to the roads, uh, and ofcourse the sewer is a huge one
because the uh uh uh theengineer's report recently said
that uh just like with thewater, it he said it would be
like trying to stick a fire hoseinto a paper straw.
Um the the amount of dischargethat this would generate simply
(11:54):
cannot be handled.
And you know, if they don'tbuild all new infrastructure,
which will be time-consuming andvery costly, costly to the town
of Roxbury, by the way.
The sewer authority said the thecost is borne by Roxbury.
Um if you don't put inadditional infrastructure, then
(12:15):
the infrastructure that's thereis probably going to fail.
And that means sewer dischargeinto the Muskoneckong River.
Um, and again, that creates allsorts of environmental concerns.
Uh, again, for anybody, youknow, if you're one of the sev
part of the 75% of the peoplewho get drinking water from the
highlands, your drinking watercould be affected if they had,
(12:37):
you know, some sort of adischarge.
Um, so it this is really a stateproblem.
It is not just a Roxbury orMorris County problem.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
William Angus, co-founder of North of No Ice
North Jersey Alliance, nohyphenroxbury hyphenjails.com.
We have the link over ourwebpage, and you're listening to
issues and ideas.
And to that, the fact that thiscould potentially eliminate$1.8
million in tax revenue because afederal facility pays no
property taxes.
SPEAKER_05 (13:07):
It's a good it could be a huge hit.
Uh we figured it out there's9,000 uh residents, uh
residential properties inRoxbury currently.
And so that works out to uh youknow two$250 per property.
And that doesn't even take intoaccount the added expenses that
(13:27):
you know Roxbury might be on thehook for if they have to build
new sewer, uh new sewer lines,uh, you know, police and fire
EMS responding to emergenciesthere, uh road repairs.
Uh so the actual cost to everysingle property owner in Roxbury
could be you know verysignificant.
Um and again, you know, this isJersey, and the one thing we
(13:50):
love to complain about is ourproperty taxes.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (13:53):
Uh this is gonna have a it is gonna have a very
big effect on the tax uh uhburden of the uh residents of
Roxbury.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Now there are various players who uh up until
this point have been wellquestionable in their value in
this effort.
Let's start with the mayor ofRoxbury.
He has c signed on to thislawsuit, so that's a positive
step because it was he had been,at least by my observation or
understanding, lackadaisicalabout it.
(14:22):
Let's say he'd been saying theright things but doing little.
So how valuable was his signingon to this, to this legal
action?
SPEAKER_05 (14:31):
I would say on behalf of Ninja and all the
other protesters, uh, we uhaccept the thanks that the mayor
has extended to us for whatwe've done.
Because, in my opinion, I knowwhat we've done in dealing with
Senator Kim, Booker, uh the theAttorney General, the Governor's
(14:53):
Office.
We know what we've done.
And I don't know what themayor's done other than sign
onto this lawsuit, whichhonestly isn't a huge effort.
Um, I think we've done more thanthe mayor and the town council
have, uh mainly because theyhaven't shown their work.
(15:14):
You know, they have notdemonstrated what they've done.
They give when you ask them,they give these vague, general
answers.
We've been in contact with thegovernor.
We've done we've been in conlike what does that even mean?
Right?
So I think he should be thankingus for what we've done
personally.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
We have town attorney who is in a dual
position.
He also is also uh state senatorand state senate Republican
leader Anthony Buco Jr., who, bythe way, with all the executive
orders uh limiting ICE activitythat Governor Sherrill assigned,
Buko is pretty much against allof them.
Is he I I hate calling for thisbecause it's up to the voters
(15:57):
for for it to decide.
Does he have to decide whichposition he serves in, whether
it's town attorney or uh statesenator?
And make a choice and give upone?
SPEAKER_05 (16:09):
To be fair, I think uh Mr.
Bucko has demonstrated why beingan attorney is not his primary
job.
Um he has uh been very um uhresistant to any of the ideas
that were presented to him andthe town council in terms of
ordinances, in terms of legalstrategy.
(16:32):
Um these were things that aredemonstrated in other states to
have had uh a positive impact onslowing or stopping the
processes.
Um thankfully, uh just in thelast week or so, uh the town has
uh announced that they havehired another law firm uh to
(16:52):
handle this issue.
Um so he is still the townattorney, but he will not be the
lead on the ICE detention centerissue.
So we're very hopeful that thisthis new law firm um uh and and
everything that we've we've readabout them suggests that uh they
(17:12):
will um pursue it uh in a mannerthat we consider appropriate.
They will give it theappropriate level of um
aggressive defense.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Then we have finally Representative Tom Cain Jr., who
his big contribution has been,well, if it's gonna cost the
area, I'll I'll get you federalfunds to pay this off, which
good luck with doing that to thetune of a hundred and one point
eight million dollars.
Again, he's is he just moreconcerned about his political
(17:45):
position, especially in thisupcoming uh election, versus the
the issue and the impact as asyou you laid it out here.
SPEAKER_05 (17:55):
Yeah, so uh I I kind of like to refer to that bill as
uh, you know, we're okay with uhhuman misery as long as we don't
have to pay for it.
That's that's what his bill isreally all about.
It does nothing to address theneeds of Roxbury or the
surrounding communities.
It does nothing to address theuh inhuman conditions that
(18:18):
surround ICE detention centersas a whole.
Uh he's fine with all that.
He's fine with you know Roxbury,you know, maybe having you know
sewer and water issues, uhpolluting the drinking water if
there's a discharge.
He just doesn't want to see thetown pay for it.
And as you said, good luckgetting money from the from
(18:39):
Donald Trump's administration uhreimbursement.
That that is that is just notgonna happen.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Especially for a blue state.
SPEAKER_05 (18:50):
Uh exactly.
Um, you know, I I read somethingrecently that uh, you know, and
I'm not sure of the numbersexactly, but something like 75%
of red state requests for aidfrom FEMA have been approved,
and like 25% of requests fromblue states have been approved.
And I can't imagine what thedifference would be between
(19:13):
those those those those verywidely different numbers.
Um yeah, he's New Jersey's youknow, he didn't even want us to
get the uh the the gatewaytunnel into um into New York
City, and he tried to stop thefunding and we had to take him
to court over that.
So, you know, there's no wayRoxbury's getting its two
million back.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
We have to wrap up here, but real fast, you
mentioned Andy Kim.
During the confirmation hearingsof Mark Wayne Mullen, Andy Kim
brought up this whole projectand he got Mullen to at least
promise that he's gonna come byand check things out.
Is there any because alsothere's been reports that with
the change of leadership at atuh Homeland Security that
(19:56):
projects are contemplating to bepaused, does that lift your
spirits in some way, shape, orform?
SPEAKER_05 (20:04):
It does and it doesn't.
Uh at the end of the day, wedon't intend to be Charlie Brown
with Lucy's football uh onceagain.
Uh honestly, if that happens, wewill be pleasantly surprised and
we will take the W if that wereto be the case and they they
backed out of Roxbury because ofyou know his reassessment.
(20:28):
Uh I have again, there is notrust and verify, there's just
verify.
So file that under.
I'll believe it when I see it.
It is encouraging, though.
I I will say that, but you know,that is not any reason for us to
take our foot off the gas on allof our efforts.
We will continue to publicprotest, we will continue to
make sure it stays in the newsmedia, in the public eye.
(20:51):
We will still continue to uh youknow be putting pressure on the
town, on our elected officials,uh to uh make sure that this
doesn't happen.
It is BAU for us until we seeotherwise.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
And for you listening, as you saw or even
maybe even took part inyesterday, the No Kings rallies,
that voice that initially lastyear people said was going to
just dry up, blow away, and goaway, is doing exactly the
opposite.
It's getting louder, gettingstronger in numbers, and getting
stronger as a force.
(21:26):
And this is one of the focalpoints of, at least here in New
Jersey, the pushback that the NoKings voice is working on, and
as well as the No Ice NorthJersey Alliance, which you can
find out more about their workand become a part of it at
NoHyphen Roxbury's.com.
William Angus, thank you forstanding strong, standing firm,
(21:48):
and bringing in as many peopleas possible to realize that
first and foremost, anindividual individual's voice
matters when there's a lot ofthem together.
And for those who uh are inplaces where there this isn't
happening.
Happening, who says it can't behappening in the next day, the
next week, or the next month.
Thank you for your work, sir.
SPEAKER_05 (22:06):
Absolutely, and thank you for having me and
giving me the opportunity totalk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
If you're listening via your favorite podcast
platform, make sure yousubscribe and follow so you
don't miss anything we try toget away with here.
Have you called how anincreasing number of elements of
the world around us, which wereassumed to be automatic, always
going to be there, aren't anylonger?
Or if they do remain, they'redrastically changed, and
healthcare is certainly noexception with this idea.
The healthcare industry, allthat's associated with it, has
(22:34):
created challenging times formajor hospitals, which over time
in different ways has beenaddressed.
Those same challenges are evengreater for the smaller rural
hospitals to the point wheremany communities are at risk of
losing their local immediatepath to health care, but they
haven't already.
During the discussions last yearover health care costs,
Medicare, Medicaid, you mighthave caught what was, in fact, a
(22:57):
bipartisan demand that ruralhospitals received the financial
lifeline that they needed.
Joining us now to explain whatthat lifeline has become and the
ways it will benefit ruralhospitals is the CEO of
Government Market Strategies,Joanne Frederick.
How are you today, Joanne?
SPEAKER_03 (23:14):
I'm doing very well, Chris.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
And learn more about Government Market Strategies,
Market Strategiesonline.com.
We do have that link at ourhomepage.
It's called the Rural HealthTransformation Program.
Talk about what the details are,and this has already been a
apply and be accepted part.
That part of it is over.
So now we're into the executionprogram, which is even more
(23:37):
important, obviously.
But what what are the goals ofwhat are the goals of the rural
health transformation program?
SPEAKER_03 (23:44):
Absolutely.
So to sort of level seteveryone, it's a major new
federal initiative and it isabout$50 billion over five
years.
And as you said, Chris, it'sreally designed to strengthen
health care in rural communitiesacross the country.
It will be administered by theCenters for Medicare and
Medicaid Services, or CMS, andevery state, including New
(24:05):
Jersey, has the opportunity todesign its own strategy to
improve access, workforce, andlong-term sustainability.
And this is one of the largestfederal investments in rural
health in decades.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Some important stats.
One third in financial straightsand at risk of closing their
rural hospitals.
We've seen them reduce inpatientservices, becoming outpatient
(24:41):
emergency care centers, andbecause of cost, the trying to
keep up with technology forespecially rural hospitals has
been has been very challenging.
How how is the what what are thestates obligated to do?
How much is left to thehospitals to say here's what's
best for us to do?
SPEAKER_03 (25:03):
Absolutely.
So let's talk about New Jerseyspecifically.
And and um when people thinkabout New Jersey, they don't
always think rural, but thereare over a half a million
residents considered in ruralcommunities in New Jersey, and
that's about six percent of thestate.
And those communities face realchallenges, fewer providers,
workforce shortages, higherimpact from substance use
disorder, and less access topreventive care.
(25:27):
And because of that, New Jerseystepped up in a big way and is
looking for a billion dollarsover five years, with about 147
million starting in year one,which is this year.
So even in a highly rural urbanstate, rural disparities are
significant, and this kind ofinvestment shows just how
serious New Jersey is aboutaddressing them.
(25:47):
And to your specific question,Chris, uh what is near what is
New Jersey doing?
Really looking at a balanced,practical approach, not just
adding services, but rethinkinghow care is delivered and
focusing on five key areasworkforce, recruitment and
retention, stabilizinghospitals, federally qualified
(26:08):
health centers, and behavioralhealth providers, expanding care
beyond facilities to includetelehealth or mobile care and
remote monitoring, investing inprevention and community health,
and improving data use andchronic disease management
across the state.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Mentioning New Jersey and staying in New
Jersey, and that's what we'rebased on if you're listening on
the podcast instead of theradio.
Something of a concern hadhappened and developed over the
years.
There was a small rural hospitalin the town of Sussex, New
Jersey.
Then the the trend of networkinguh hospitals together uh
(26:43):
eventually found its way intoNew Jersey.
Sussex Hospital was part of a anetworked situation, but then
because it was financiallyunderperforming, it became first
an outpatient service, and theneventually now it's a c it's a
totally empty building, empty tothis day.
How much is this program goingto prevent what happened to that
(27:05):
hospital in Sussex, New Jerseyfrom happening in places like
Montana or the Dakotas whererural hospitals are much more
prevalent and certainly mostmuch much more vital to offering
full care as opposed tooutpatient care?
SPEAKER_03 (27:21):
That is a very complex question, Chris.
I'll do my best.
So this funding really uh thestate decides what to do with
the funding.
So it is up to each individualstate to say, are we is our
priority to stop these ruralhospitals from closing, or is
our priority to wrap aroundadditional services in those
areas that might take the placefor uh of those hospitals?
(27:44):
The the consolidation ofhospital facilities and the
investment in hospitals acrossthe country will continue, and
this rural health transformationprogram in and of itself can't
really prevent uh for-profitentities from uh purchasing
hospitals and then deciding thatthey're not performing and close
(28:05):
them.
So this uh this grant and thisyou know$50 billion across the
country, a billion for uhroughly each state about a
billion over five years will bedeployed in different ways.
And I would encourage all ofyour listeners to engage with
their local elected officials totalk about what should happen
(28:25):
and how we really stabilize ourrural health care facilities
across the nation.
The federal government has handit will hand the money out, the
states have the power to decidehow to do it, but nowhere in
this grant program is an abilityto uh stop market forces and
public uh publicly tradedcompanies from continuing to
(28:47):
purchase and consolidate healthcare across the nation.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
So with Joanne Frederick, who is CEO of uh
Government Market Strategies,Market StrategiesOnline.com,
talking about rural hospitalsand a financial lifeline that
they've received in herelistening to issues and ideas.
And it's important, isn't it,isn't it, Joanne?
For people who remember and Isay this about my industry to
radio, it's called radiobusiness for a reason.
(29:11):
Without the business side, thereis no performance that's going
to happen.
Same with hospitals, it has tobe understood that part of the
practice, part of the machine isbusiness.
It has to make money to keep thelights on, keep the doors open,
hire the staff.
And business is an element,financials are an element.
Some people might arch theirback at that, but this isn't I
(29:32):
mean charity care is charitycare is well and great, but a
hospital of any size can't existon offering up charity care.
SPEAKER_03 (29:41):
Absolutely.
You know, there's nothinginherently evil about making
money and profiting.
I it's really the balance andand how do we make sure we're
we're taking care of people andalso taking care of our
businesses in every state acrossthe nation?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
If this program succeeds, I mean this is uh a
10-year period.
How much of a program like thiswinds up being ingrained into
the health care process and thefinancial support that the
federal government gives?
You know, can this be the a newversion of a a Medicare system
that reimburses, you know,Medicare reimburses hospitals
(30:17):
and doctors?
Is this going to be does thishave the potential of being a
new foundational program to helpsupport and keep alive uh a
medical a health care system asfully and as strongly as
possible?
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
So this is really a once-in-a-generation investment
to improve rural health care.
Will it turn into a new uhnational program or even
state-based program?
Probably not.
But what it can do and will doand should do and is designed to
do is really prove out pilotsand demonstrate how different
approaches in different areascan actually be impactful and
(30:56):
effective for the people on theground.
And that's the that's really theimport here.
All 50 states are doingsomething slightly differently.
All of them uh were approved bythe federal government to
receive this funding, and wehave to remember that it is
quite the cliche now, buthealthcare is local.
So what might work in Montana isnot necessarily what will work
(31:17):
in New Jersey, etc.
And it really is inherent uponthe the healthcare leaders in
the state, in each individualstate, to say what what are our
priorities, what do we need toprotect, and then how can we use
this money and invest this moneyin ways that not only help us
today, but to your point, willset us up for success well into
(31:39):
the future.
And this program absolutely hasthe capability and possibility
to do that, and we are very muchlooking forward to working with
all the states uh to implementthose projects.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
Yeah, and like I said back in the introduction,
the rural hospital was becomingan endangered species because of
changes in other aspects andareas of of health care and
health care providing.
So with this program that ishere, is active, and is looking
to be as effective as possible,the rural health transformation
program.
And don't be afraid by that wordtransformation.
(32:11):
A lot of people I was looking atsome some analysis and they were
focusing on this word.
Does that mean elimination?
Well, it depends on what the uhindividual hospital is doing,
whether they're doing it well,whether this program can take
what's uh lacking and build it,or does it have to be altered or
yeah, there will be elimination.
If it's not being profitable,it's not being effective, not
(32:34):
serving the local community,then why would one want to have
a continue when it uh could bemoney, as they say, better spent
and more effectively?
Find out more.
We're gonna put the documentfrom the federal government
about the rural healthtransformation on the downloads
page.
You can look up your specificstate to see how the plan is
going to be implemented and findout more about government market
(32:55):
strategies, of which Joanne isthe CEO of Market
StrategiesOnline.com.
Joanne Frederick, thank you somuch for helping us better
understand.
Change is always uh a time ofanxiety, but uh more often than
not it could be a good thing,and this sounds like it is one
of those times it's going to bea good thing.
Thanks for being here today.
Thank you, guys.
I appreciate it.
(33:16):
Question for you.
How important is heritage toyou?
Do you consider it to be a partof your ancestry or your
identity?
Another question for you.
What if your heritage was withinreach, but it was being
smothered by evil and violentacts?
Could you deal with that?
That's something my next guesthas lived with and more
importantly strongly respondedto.
(33:38):
While born here in the US, hisfamily relocated to Iran, where
the Islamic Revolution madeattacking freedoms of all kinds
of priority.
He joins us to offer his insightinto what the Iranian people are
experiencing and trying tosurvive in for them what's a
multi-front battle.
His upcoming book where he tellshis personal story, his passport
(33:59):
to freedom from Tehran toTriumph.
He's also chairman of the boardof the Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center, as well asfounder and chair of the
Sympatigo Foundation.
Dr.
Nizam Musagi, how are you today,Doctor?
SPEAKER_02 (34:13):
I'm very well, Chris.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
I appreciate you taking the time and certainly
making your life an open bookwith your experiences.
Two websites, we do have them atthe homepage, too, IranHrdc.org
and the Sympatigo.org.
Find out more about thoseorganizations that Dr.
Musagi is related to.
Let us start with your storybecause as I said, you were born
in the US, family relocated intoIran.
(34:39):
At what point, at what stage wasthe revolution underway?
And that also brings about thequestion for the person
listening, I'm sure, as it doesfor me, in a place where that
Islamic revolution washappening, why would other than
for heritage and family, wouldone want to go back there?
SPEAKER_02 (34:58):
I was born in the US during the time when my mother
was doing her pediatricresidency in New York, and her
residency finished in 1976.
At the time I was an infant, andmy parents opted to move back to
Iran because they wanted to helpdevelop their nation and uh be
(35:19):
productive members of society.
1976 is about three years beforethe um 1979 revolution.
And so at the time they did notknow that the revolution was
about to happen.
Iran was an island of uh safetyand security, it was a place
where uh Iranians uh had andthey still continue to have a
(35:43):
significant affinity too.
So they went back not knowingwhat would happen, and of course
their lives were amended uh bythe 1970s Islamic revolution, of
course, the war that followedwith Iraq for eight years
afterwards.
Um if you ask my parents, my momis parents, or you ask my
father, he would still say thathe has no regrets for going back
(36:05):
because he felt a calling to bethere and be able to uh
contribute to Iran as hishomeland, uh, but unfortunately
the circumstances reallysignificantly restricted their
ability to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
Talk about what it was like coming of age in an
environment like that, becauseif you're an infant three years
before, around four or fiveyears old is when everything
started to happen or fall apartas one whatever way one wants to
term it.
So talk about the those earlyyears of your awareness and was
what was going on around youjust for lack of better phrase,
(36:43):
just seemed to be normalcy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:47):
Absolutely.
Um one of the things that uhreally uh uh is prominent in my
mind is that uh there is aduality of existence.
There is what you could say inthe outside world that would be
safe and uh would not get youinto trouble, and there is the
(37:07):
level of free speech that youcould have at home.
And the two of them were verydiscordant.
You could at home be critical ofthe Islamic regime, you could
understand that you know, evenin private parties where parents
are uh having conversations,they would be very critical of
the leadership and the decisionsthat they would make, such as
the rating of the US Embassy orthe policies that led to the uh
(37:32):
start of the Iraq war, forexample, but they would always
tell you that our privateconversations are never to be
repeated outside.
Uh there were attempts by evenschool principals and teachers
to try to understand who wouldbe against the revolution
through extracting or exactinginformation from children.
(37:53):
So I remember a time when uh ateacher walked into the uh
classroom with what appeared tobe a shot glass, a very small uh
glass in his hand, and said,Hey, whose parents drink water
out of cups like this?
And a few kids left their feet,they're like mine do.
And so, just so that they wouldknow whose homes would have
alcohol in them, for example.
(38:15):
Um but we generally had to bevery careful with the expression
that the walls have ears, thatif you say anything to expose
your family, they could be introuble, your home could be
raided, and their parents couldbe taken in for interrogation
and sometimes detained for along time without any sort of
(38:35):
explanation.
And the kinds of securitycharges that that would level
against ordinary citizens, suchas waging war against God or
spreading corruption on earth,could carry the death penalty.
So you have to be very carefulwithin this very significant and
heavy security environment.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
Dr.
Nizam Masaki, his upcoming book,Passport to Freedom from Tehran
to Triumph.
He's chairman of the board ofthe Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center, founderand chair of the Sympatigo
Foundation, Iran HRDC.org, theSympatigo.org, the respective
websites.
We have them on the homepage aswell, and you're listening to
issues and ideas.
What you just said, Doctor,brings me to a, I think, an
(39:13):
important point people listeninghere in America certainly need
to know and understand.
It's it's well accepted andunderstood that when it comes to
human rights, Iran historicallyhas been horrendous.
And but human human rightsviolations in Iran don't begin
and end with wrongfulimprisonment.
It goes uh uh gets a great dealmore violent than that, doesn't
(39:37):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:38):
Absolutely does.
They would uh they ressignificantly restrict freedom
of speech, and those who dare tospeak will face the most severe
of consequences, and they couldhave the uh seizure of their
assets, they could have uh yearsor decades that they would have
to spend in prison, and theproblem is not just with the
(40:00):
people whose rights areviolated, but every one of these
people has families, and you canimagine the generational trauma
and impact it would have on thechildren and on spouses and the
economic disaster that theywould have to uh face when their
loved ones are taken away oreven in some circumstances
executed for uh basically notfalling in line.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Help us understand the Iranian people right now,
because human nature being whatit is, you're you're
constrained, you're you're feelabandoned maybe even by the
world around you and you're leftto yourself.
We saw the uprising advancerather significantly now over a
decade ago when Barack Obama waspresident here in the US, and we
(40:46):
failed to give it any kind ofmeaningful support other than a
few days afterwards.
Well, nice try, hope you havebetter luck next time.
But today, in the here and now,when the new leadership makes a
public appearance of any kind,as whenever whenever they have
the feud times in light ofeverything happening, the people
come out and cheer.
Is that because much like uh anabused spouse falls in love with
(41:09):
her captor to try to have atleast one more day of peace?
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Yeah.
Um so, like any other society,Iran is not a monolithic
society.
The people certainly havedifferent opinions and beliefs.
Uh, the general understanding,and uh of course we have to
understand that it's verydifficult to do any scientific
polling in a country that is soclosed and does not allow any
foreign um journalists to bepresent.
(41:36):
But the Iranian people generallyare very indeterminate, they are
they have one of the highestliteracy rates in the region,
especially um in the Middle Eastwith women who uh you know, in
some places and neighboringcountries, for example,
Afghanistan, where uh educationis significantly restricted, in
Iran uh now for a couple ofdecades, Iranian women um have
(41:59):
been the majority uh graduatesof universities.
And so Iran is is verysignificantly wired with the
internet, except now for thepast months where the internet
has been completely shut off.
Uh they know how the rest of theworld lives.
They are very significantlysecular, uh which is very
unusual for that region of theworld.
(42:22):
And um but there is also a smallfaction of sycophants and
sympathies of the IslamicRepublic.
There have been someTwitter-based polls that put
that number somewhere aroundeleven to twelve percent.
So the propaganda that comes outof the regime when they shut
down the internet for everybodyelse is they create a rally with
(42:44):
people holding pictures of theayatollah to try to give to the
world an impression that theIranians are also happy with the
leadership and with the IslamicRepublic.
But from all of what we can see,uh the majority of Iranians do
not stand with this IslamicRepublic.
The majority of the Iranians arefreedom seeking people who wish
(43:06):
to have normal lives, basichuman rights, and uh the ability
to thrive, not just survive.
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
Last question, we ha we have to wrap up here, but
given how the r the leadershipof the country seems to be
getting more and more radicalfor all intents and purposes,
it's the RGC who is runningthings now and uh they make the
previous uh leadership look looklike cooperative uh cohabitants
(43:34):
of a of a nation.
What's the realistic expectationof what's to come once the
expected military actions end inanother two to four weeks from
most expectations?
You know, w what's what's nextfor her run and the and her
people?
SPEAKER_02 (43:50):
Um here, of course, nobody has a crystal ball about
what's going to happen.
The one thing that I can say isthat I am in touch significantly
with people who happen to getonline for brief periods and
send messages through uh thetelegram messaging app.
Uh the there are majority ofpeople that talk to me say that
they're more afraid of thewounded wolf left behind, that's
(44:14):
the Islamic Republic, than themissiles of Israel and the US.
And uh that tells a lot aboutthe repressive nature of this
regime that if they happen tostay in power, the only people
to whom they can show theirpower is the people and they can
brutalize them and they can cutthe rest the Iran from the rest
of the world through uh internetshutouts and all of these
(44:37):
things.
And so so the realisticexpectation I am not certain of
whether some version of theIslamic Republic that's more
moderate is going to say whetherthere's going to be a collapse
and regime change, for example,which I think is the desire of
the majority of Iranians, or umwhether Iran will sink into
(44:59):
something that becomes closer toNorth Korea and completely cut
out from the rest of the worldreally remains to be seen.
But here the people of Iran arehopeful that because their
plight has now aligned with USand Israeli policies because
Iran has also been thisdestabilizing the region, that
(45:20):
hopefully a significantattenuation of power in Iran
will create an opportunity forthem to take to the streets and
take back their own governmentand be more involved in then you
know the self-determination canreturn to the people.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
That would indeed be a blessing with uh organized
resistance that can accomplishas opposed to just push back and
fight.
Looking forward to Dr.
Musaki's book later on thisyear, Passport to Freedom from
Tehran to Triumph visit the siteof the Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center.
It's very informative and willgive you a better understanding
of exactly what the people ofIran have to contend with and
(45:59):
try to survive.
It's Iran HRDC.org.
He's also founder and chair ofthe Sympatigo Foundation, the
Sympatigo.org, that website Dr.
Naz Nizam Musagi, thanks so muchfor telling your story, helping
us better understand thatthere's a human side to what
we're going through and seeing,not just political and military,
and you help us appreciate thehuman side of this whole whole
(46:22):
thing a lot more.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
Chris, thank you so much for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
So I'm tying Homeland Security into voter
identification with picture andproof of citizenship in order to
vote.
And those two items are the mostimportant thing having to do
with Homeland Security.
So it's fun it should be part ofthe Homeland Security.
And I'm requesting that theRepublican senators do that
(46:49):
immediately.
You don't have to take a fencevote.
Don't worry about Easter goinghome.
In fact make this one for Jesusokay make this one for Jesus
that's what I tell him that'd bea damn good thing.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
That was Donald Trump in this past week once
again demanding that Congresspass the Save America Act.
This time he told CongressionalRepublicans to, as you heard,
make this one for Jesus how doesTrump connect Jesus to the Save
America Act?
Well yeah maybe he read that intwo Corinthians.
Remember that Jim by him we'vetalked about the Save America
(47:27):
Act several times here on issuesand ideas.
Think about this would Jesusencourage something that limits,
restricts, even forbids a vitalfreedom like voting would Jesus
cheer on something whichespecially targets women, the
elderly and people of color asyou would expect, Trump's Make
(47:47):
This One for Jesus directivereceived agreement and support
by his followers on social mediaand elsewhere, most likely
because they believe that theSave America Act is something
that Jesus wants what thatreveals is a drastic and
dangerous lack of understandingabout the wants and the desires
of Jesus.
That absence of that awarenessabout Jesus is not really just
(48:10):
limited to Trump supporters.
A lot of people ask the questionwhat does Jesus want?
They treat it as a mystery andthat's unnecessary because Jesus
makes his wants as clear as itcould possibly be example Jesus
wants us to follow him.
He says this to Peter and hisbrother Andrew in Matthew
chapter four verse nineteen thenhe, Jesus said to them, Follow
(48:34):
me and I will make you fishersof men.
Jesus expands on this in Johnchapter twelve verse twenty six
if anyone serves me, let himfollow me and where I am there
my servant will be also ifanyone serves me, him my father
will honor Jesus wants to serve.
This is what he says to us inMark chapter ten verse forty
(48:56):
five for even the Son of man didnot come to be served but to
serve and to give his life aransom for many.
Jesus wants us to watch watchfor what?
Watch for the signs of hisreturn.
Let's turn to Luke chaptertwelve verses thirty seven and
thirty eight Blessed are thoseservants whom the master when he
(49:18):
comes will find watching forsurely I say to you that he will
gird himself and have them sitdown to eat, and will come and
serve them.
And if he should come in thesecond watch or come in the
third watch and find them so,blessed are those servants.
Those words of Jesus to us arevital in understanding and
knowing him it's the prayer byJesus that we read in the
(49:40):
seventeenth chapter of John thatby far is most revealing.
Jesus starts by praying toFather God to be glorified by
him, as Jesus in his time onearth glorified the Father, then
he prays for his disciples,saying this in John chapter
seventeen verse thirteen But nowI come to you and these things I
speak in the world that they mayhave my joy fulfilled in
(50:03):
themselves.
Jesus adds this in verse fifteenI do not pray that you should
take them out of the world, butthat you should keep them from
the evil one.
Jesus wants us to be sanctifiedthat means to be pure and holy
Jesus asks Father God for thisin verse nineteen and for their
sakes I sanctify them, that theyalso may be sanctified by the
(50:27):
truth.
But Jesus saves the best forlast.
He wants us to be one with himcontinuing with what Jesus prays
starting in verse twenty, I donot pray for these alone, but
also for those who will believein me through their word, that
they all may be one as youFather are in me and I in you,
that they also be one in us,that the world may believe that
(50:51):
you sent me and the glory whichyou gave me I have given them,
that they may be one just as weare one, I in them and you in
me, that they may be madeperfect in one, and that the
world may know that you havesent me and have loved them as
you have loved me.
How often have you heard someonein declaring the faith say I've
(51:15):
accepted Jesus Well that'sthat's mighty big you there.
No no it's Jesus who accepts usand wants us to be with him.
Says this in verse 24 Father Idesire that they also whom you
gave me may be with me where Iam, that they may behold my
glory which you have given mefor you loved me before the
(51:38):
foundation of the world.
Jesus offers you his eternallove and asks for that same
eternal love from you and putyou in the same place that we
find Simon Peter in John chaptertwenty one, starting with verse
fifteen So when they had eatenbreakfast Jesus said to Simon
Peter, Simon son of Jonah, doyou love me more than these?
(51:59):
He said to him, Yes Lord, youknow that I love you he said to
him feed my lambs.
So to him again a second time,Simon son of Jonah, do you love
me?
He said to him Yes Lord you knowthat I love you.
He said to him Tend my sheep Hesaid to him a third time of
Jonah do you love me?
(52:19):
Peter was grieved because hesaid to him the third time Do
you love me?
And he said to him Lord you knowall things you know that I love
you.
And Jesus said to him feed mysheep So what kind of love are
we talking about?
A love that's total a lovethat's complete a love that is
(52:39):
eternal.
Devoted love which has Jesusfirst then everyone everything
else second.
Are you repelled by that truthbecause you think it means
dumping people and getting ridof stuff from your life well
that's not what Jesus is askingof you.
As long as they're godly andgood, especially blessings from
Father God, the people andpossessions of your life will
(53:02):
stay a part of your life.
Your love of Jesus will actuallyadd to your life because as one
of his faithful who loves him,you become part of the body of
the church who praise andworship him.
All of this will bring to youthe reward that Jesus asks
Father God for in John chapterseventeen verse twenty six and I
have declared to them your nameand will declare it that the
(53:24):
love with which you love me maybe in them and I in them.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite issues and ideas radio
dot com that's where you'll findthe information about the guests
who are here on the show with ustoday.
Downloads page we've been addinga lot of stuff to that in recent
days.
And of course if you'relistening via your favorite
(53:44):
podcast platform make sure yousubscribe and follow.
Always thankful and grateful foryour time and your attention
very special and important tous.
Look forward to being with youright here this time next week
for our next edition of Issuesand ideas
Hello, welcome to Issues and Ideas.
I'm Christabello.
This past Wednesday, New Jerseyjoined states including
California, Illinois, New York,Oregon, Washington, Colorado,
Connecticut, Maryland, Vermont,Maine, New Mexico, and let's
call them melting ice.
Passing laws that limit iceactivities in their respective
states.
As I said this past Wednesday,New Jersey Governor Mikey
(00:22):
Sherrill signed a trio ofimmigration laws that r really
restrict when New Jersey cancooperate with U.S.
immigration customs enforcementagents.
People calling this one of themost aggressive state pushbacks
against ICE.
Looking here, one law is S3114,it bars both local and federal
(00:44):
law enforcement officers,including ICE, from wearing
masks during interactions withthe public in the state.
Another bill, S-3522, prohibitsState agencies from sharing a
person's immigration statuswithout a warrant.
And then we have S-3521 thatbars local police from assisting
Federal immigration authoritieswithout a judicial warrant for
(01:09):
making the State's existingimmigrant trust directive policy
permanent.
And as you would expect, theU.S.
Department of Homeland Securitydid have a reaction to all this,
saying sanctuary politiciansattempted to ban our Federal law
enforcement from wearing masksis despicable and a flagrant
attempt to endanger ourofficers.
(01:30):
Then why are they going into theairports without masks?
Are there no dangers there?
Anyway, continuing with theirstatement to be crystal clear,
we will not abide by thisunconstitutional ban.
Also said the agency'saggressive posture was the
result of local police notworking with them.
So it was the local lawenforcement fault that all this
(01:52):
stuff is happening.
So this trio of new laws adds towhat's already taken place over
the past year.
New Jersey's efforts to restrictICE activities in the state, and
(02:14):
that includes the executiveorder that Carroll signed that
blocked the agency from stateproperty, and we'll get into
this in a moment.
A lawsuit aimed at stopping adetention center in Roxbury from
being built with that executiveorder blocking the ICE agents
from state property.
Yeah, the Trump administrationsued the state over that one, as
(02:36):
there's no doubt that theadministration will sue over
this new trio of laws.
Of course he will.
But when you consider thebatting average of the Trump
D.O.J.
puppets in court cases, evenjust with grand jury
indictments, kind of have nodoubt that Governor Sherrill
believes the odds are certainlywith her in New Jersey.
Now, while a lot of people agreewith all these laws, there is
(02:59):
opposition.
Again, as what you wouldsuspect.
On the Republican side, theSembleman Gary Meyer, who
represents Ocean County,critical law that will cut down
on intelligence sharing betweenthe state and ICE officers and
other federal agencies.
He said this bill blocks state,county, and local law
enforcement from coordinatingwith federal agencies.
Proof Trenton Democrats havelearned nothing from recent
(03:22):
history.
The 911 Commission made clearthat siloed information and lack
of cooperation puts lives atrisk.
Again, I refer to some of theviolent and threatening actions
of ICE agents.
So whose lives are actuallybeing put at risk here.
Anyway, we also have StateSenator Michael Tester.
(03:42):
He represents Cumberland Countysaying here the governor's
decision to sign these bills andthe laws is deeply disappointing
and frankly dangerous for NewJersey families.
It erects barriers wherecooperation should exist,
creating serious risks forpublic safety that puts
communities in harm's way.
New Jersey deserves better thanperformative legislation that
(04:06):
prioritizes politics over publicsafety.
You know what the curse is withthe opposition?
I mean it's fine to opposesomething no problem with that.
Welcome to America.
You're you're encouraged tospeak your views and share your
thoughts and ideas.
But to make blanket statements,generalized statements like
(04:27):
that, don't you think that thatleads to an increase of bigotry
and racism, making people thinkthat all people who are
non-white and not born inAmerica are going to commit
violent, deadly acts against NewJersey families.
As I just mentioned in the showOpen, New Jersey has taken legal
action regarding the plannedimmigrant detention center,
(04:49):
which will be located inRoxbury, New Jersey.
If you're listening elsewhere,it's the northwest part of the
state.
Others say that there are laws,there are policies that are
required to be followed byeverybody, which hasn't
happened.
When it comes to this proposedproject, the first guest today
(05:10):
has been certainly a leader inthe vocal and other efforts to
push back against this plannedimmigrant detention center.
He is the co-founder of the NoIce North Jersey Alliance,
William Angus.
Thanks for coming back, Bill.
SPEAKER_05 (05:25):
Glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
And with the website, we have it on the home
page, no hyphen, roxbury.com.
Let's talk about the website.
Let's start with the laws too,Bill, because this is addressing
major points.
As I said in the introduction,the belief is even the
Constitution supports thatfederal federal trumps states.
(05:50):
But if there are federal andstate laws that aren't being
followed, well, the federal hasa problem.
That's what this lawsuit isreally trying to point out,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_05 (05:59):
Uh that's exactly correct.
Um so uh we have been uh pr uhpressing uh Governor Cheryl to
take this sort of action in ourdiscussions with her um to
follow along.
Um this follows similar actionin Pennsylvania and Maryland.
And I believe in Maryland theyactually have a stop work order,
(06:22):
uh if I recall correctly.
Um Because as you said, uh a lotof times local uh ordinances and
laws can be overstepped by thefeds, but when it comes to
federal laws, that's not so easyfor them to bypass.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
And one of those being the National Environmental
Policy Act requires federalagencies to assess environmental
impacts before taking on a majorconstruction project.
The Department of HomelandSecurity says, well, we did
that.
Small problem is there's noreport saying what they did.
SPEAKER_05 (06:58):
Yeah, uh the that that is a recurrent problem with
DHS.
They say, oh, we did this, we'vespoken with this uh with the
local officials, we've uhsubmitted uh reports, and when
you ask the local officials orthe agencies involved, they say
uh no, they haven't.
Um so uh the Muskone Kong SewerAuthority, which governs the
(07:20):
sewer and water for Roxbury andsix other towns, uh recently uh
had stated that they hadreceived no information, no
requests, no investigations fromDHS after they had publicly said
that they had done so.
So it's not even trust butverify, it's just verify.
(07:42):
There's no trust there.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
I'm gonna put the document up on our downloads
page over at a website too, sofor you listening, you can check
this out in detail.
And if you're in other statesand communities, learn from it
and take the lead here too.
The Administrative Procedure Actby failing to consider the
important aspects of thesituation, the inappropriateness
of the site, which we'll get tothat in a moment.
The IntergovernmentalCooperation Act violation
(08:06):
requires DHS to have consultedstate and local officials, and
their uh broken laws regardingthe Immigration Nationality Act
by violating ICE's own publicstandards for what a facility is
to be, which case in point,Bill, this proposed location, at
least in current state ofaffairs, has a grand total of
(08:26):
four toilets for fifteen hundredpeople.
That doesn't sound like that'sgoing to work out too good.
SPEAKER_05 (08:32):
No, and and that's that's uh honestly the tip of
the iceberg, but you know, forthe purposes of their lawsuit,
uh it's more than sufficient toraise legal questions.
Um the the warehouse was onlydesigned uh to handle, you know,
40 employees, give or take.
And so it has appropriate levelsof you know bathroom facilities
(08:56):
and sewer capacity and alsowater connections for that.
Um you know, there could be manyhundreds of uh DHS ice agents uh
there uh because this is a thisis effectively a prison.
Um so it's not just thedetainees, which uh they say is
gonna be 1,500.
(09:17):
Uh you could easily have, youknow, four or five hundred um
ICE uh ice agents in charge ofthe facility.
So you're talking in excess of2,000 people.
That's 50 times the the usagethat was expected.
And you know, these are notinsignificant concerns because
(09:41):
um, you know, without gettingtoo into the weeds, uh, you
know, the the Muscon Eccon SewerAuthority manages the the amount
of water that each town canhave.
And Roxbury is currently using93% of its allocated water
supply.
Um this is going to push themdangerously close to 100%.
(10:01):
And the town has numerous um uhaffordable housing uh
obligations that it's tryingthey're trying to meet uh with
the state.
And what what are those peoplegonna do for water and sewer?
Um so it puts it puts Roxbury ina very bad position of you know
(10:22):
maybe not being able to becompliant with the affordable
housing uh responsibilities.
Um it may have to, you know,purchase water rights from other
towns if they're even willing todo so.
You can't just manufacturewater, you know, if it's not
there, it's not there.
So this affects everybody, um uhnot just in Roxbury, but it, you
(10:47):
know, in the other six towns.
And honestly, it's part of thehighlands, so it affects anybody
who gets drinking water fromthat area, which by the way is
about 75% of the New Jerseypopulace gets some of its water
from the Highlands.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
We also have to have to think, too, what what strain
is this facility going to put onthe electric grid for the for
not just the area but the forthe region?
SPEAKER_05 (11:12):
I I mean you you name an an aspect uh and and
it's going to impact it.
Uh there's estimates of you knowsignificant uh truck traffic on
the highway getting in and out.
That's gonna create noisepollution for the nearby
neighbors, um, it's going tocreate traffic problems, uh
(11:34):
impact to the roads, uh, and ofcourse the sewer is a huge one
because the uh uh uh theengineer's report recently said
that uh just like with thewater, it he said it would be
like trying to stick a fire hoseinto a paper straw.
Um the the amount of dischargethat this would generate simply
(11:54):
cannot be handled.
And you know, if they don'tbuild all new infrastructure,
which will be time-consuming andvery costly, costly to the town
of Roxbury, by the way.
The sewer authority said the thecost is borne by Roxbury.
Um if you don't put inadditional infrastructure, then
(12:15):
the infrastructure that's thereis probably going to fail.
And that means sewer dischargeinto the Muskoneckong River.
Um, and again, that creates allsorts of environmental concerns.
Uh, again, for anybody, youknow, if you're one of the sev
part of the 75% of the peoplewho get drinking water from the
highlands, your drinking watercould be affected if they had,
(12:37):
you know, some sort of adischarge.
Um, so it this is really a stateproblem.
It is not just a Roxbury orMorris County problem.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
William Angus, co-founder of North of No Ice
North Jersey Alliance, nohyphenroxbury hyphenjails.com.
We have the link over ourwebpage, and you're listening to
issues and ideas.
And to that, the fact that thiscould potentially eliminate$1.8
million in tax revenue because afederal facility pays no
property taxes.
SPEAKER_05 (13:07):
It's a good it could be a huge hit.
Uh we figured it out there's9,000 uh residents, uh
residential properties inRoxbury currently.
And so that works out to uh youknow two$250 per property.
And that doesn't even take intoaccount the added expenses that
(13:27):
you know Roxbury might be on thehook for if they have to build
new sewer, uh new sewer lines,uh, you know, police and fire
EMS responding to emergenciesthere, uh road repairs.
Uh so the actual cost to everysingle property owner in Roxbury
could be you know verysignificant.
Um and again, you know, this isJersey, and the one thing we
(13:50):
love to complain about is ourproperty taxes.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (13:53):
Uh this is gonna have a it is gonna have a very
big effect on the tax uh uhburden of the uh residents of
Roxbury.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Now there are various players who uh up until
this point have been wellquestionable in their value in
this effort.
Let's start with the mayor ofRoxbury.
He has c signed on to thislawsuit, so that's a positive
step because it was he had been,at least by my observation or
understanding, lackadaisicalabout it.
(14:22):
Let's say he'd been saying theright things but doing little.
So how valuable was his signingon to this, to this legal
action?
SPEAKER_05 (14:31):
I would say on behalf of Ninja and all the
other protesters, uh, we uhaccept the thanks that the mayor
has extended to us for whatwe've done.
Because, in my opinion, I knowwhat we've done in dealing with
Senator Kim, Booker, uh the theAttorney General, the Governor's
(14:53):
Office.
We know what we've done.
And I don't know what themayor's done other than sign
onto this lawsuit, whichhonestly isn't a huge effort.
Um, I think we've done more thanthe mayor and the town council
have, uh mainly because theyhaven't shown their work.
(15:14):
You know, they have notdemonstrated what they've done.
They give when you ask them,they give these vague, general
answers.
We've been in contact with thegovernor.
We've done we've been in conlike what does that even mean?
Right?
So I think he should be thankingus for what we've done
personally.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
We have town attorney who is in a dual
position.
He also is also uh state senatorand state senate Republican
leader Anthony Buco Jr., who, bythe way, with all the executive
orders uh limiting ICE activitythat Governor Sherrill assigned,
Buko is pretty much against allof them.
Is he I I hate calling for thisbecause it's up to the voters
(15:57):
for for it to decide.
Does he have to decide whichposition he serves in, whether
it's town attorney or uh statesenator?
And make a choice and give upone?
SPEAKER_05 (16:09):
To be fair, I think uh Mr.
Bucko has demonstrated why beingan attorney is not his primary
job.
Um he has uh been very um uhresistant to any of the ideas
that were presented to him andthe town council in terms of
ordinances, in terms of legalstrategy.
(16:32):
Um these were things that aredemonstrated in other states to
have had uh a positive impact onslowing or stopping the
processes.
Um thankfully, uh just in thelast week or so, uh the town has
uh announced that they havehired another law firm uh to
(16:52):
handle this issue.
Um so he is still the townattorney, but he will not be the
lead on the ICE detention centerissue.
So we're very hopeful that thisthis new law firm um uh and and
everything that we've we've readabout them suggests that uh they
(17:12):
will um pursue it uh in a mannerthat we consider appropriate.
They will give it theappropriate level of um
aggressive defense.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
Then we have finally Representative Tom Cain Jr., who
his big contribution has been,well, if it's gonna cost the
area, I'll I'll get you federalfunds to pay this off, which
good luck with doing that to thetune of a hundred and one point
eight million dollars.
Again, he's is he just moreconcerned about his political
(17:45):
position, especially in thisupcoming uh election, versus the
the issue and the impact as asyou you laid it out here.
SPEAKER_05 (17:55):
Yeah, so uh I I kind of like to refer to that bill as
uh, you know, we're okay with uhhuman misery as long as we don't
have to pay for it.
That's that's what his bill isreally all about.
It does nothing to address theneeds of Roxbury or the
surrounding communities.
It does nothing to address theuh inhuman conditions that
(18:18):
surround ICE detention centersas a whole.
Uh he's fine with all that.
He's fine with you know Roxbury,you know, maybe having you know
sewer and water issues, uhpolluting the drinking water if
there's a discharge.
He just doesn't want to see thetown pay for it.
And as you said, good luckgetting money from the from
(18:39):
Donald Trump's administration uhreimbursement.
That that is that is just notgonna happen.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Especially for a blue state.
SPEAKER_05 (18:50):
Uh exactly.
Um, you know, I I read somethingrecently that uh, you know, and
I'm not sure of the numbersexactly, but something like 75%
of red state requests for aidfrom FEMA have been approved,
and like 25% of requests fromblue states have been approved.
And I can't imagine what thedifference would be between
(19:13):
those those those those verywidely different numbers.
Um yeah, he's New Jersey's youknow, he didn't even want us to
get the uh the the gatewaytunnel into um into New York
City, and he tried to stop thefunding and we had to take him
to court over that.
So, you know, there's no wayRoxbury's getting its two
million back.
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
We have to wrap up here, but real fast, you
mentioned Andy Kim.
During the confirmation hearingsof Mark Wayne Mullen, Andy Kim
brought up this whole projectand he got Mullen to at least
promise that he's gonna come byand check things out.
Is there any because alsothere's been reports that with
the change of leadership at atuh Homeland Security that
(19:56):
projects are contemplating to bepaused, does that lift your
spirits in some way, shape, orform?
SPEAKER_05 (20:04):
It does and it doesn't.
Uh at the end of the day, wedon't intend to be Charlie Brown
with Lucy's football uh onceagain.
Uh honestly, if that happens, wewill be pleasantly surprised and
we will take the W if that wereto be the case and they they
backed out of Roxbury because ofyou know his reassessment.
(20:28):
Uh I have again, there is notrust and verify, there's just
verify.
So file that under.
I'll believe it when I see it.
It is encouraging, though.
I I will say that, but you know,that is not any reason for us to
take our foot off the gas on allof our efforts.
We will continue to publicprotest, we will continue to
make sure it stays in the newsmedia, in the public eye.
(20:51):
We will still continue to uh youknow be putting pressure on the
town, on our elected officials,uh to uh make sure that this
doesn't happen.
It is BAU for us until we seeotherwise.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
And for you listening, as you saw or even
maybe even took part inyesterday, the No Kings rallies,
that voice that initially lastyear people said was going to
just dry up, blow away, and goaway, is doing exactly the
opposite.
It's getting louder, gettingstronger in numbers, and getting
stronger as a force.
(21:26):
And this is one of the focalpoints of, at least here in New
Jersey, the pushback that the NoKings voice is working on, and
as well as the No Ice NorthJersey Alliance, which you can
find out more about their workand become a part of it at
NoHyphen Roxbury's.com.
William Angus, thank you forstanding strong, standing firm,
(21:48):
and bringing in as many peopleas possible to realize that
first and foremost, anindividual individual's voice
matters when there's a lot ofthem together.
And for those who uh are inplaces where there this isn't
happening.
Happening, who says it can't behappening in the next day, the
next week, or the next month.
Thank you for your work, sir.
SPEAKER_05 (22:06):
Absolutely, and thank you for having me and
giving me the opportunity totalk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
If you're listening via your favorite podcast
platform, make sure yousubscribe and follow so you
don't miss anything we try toget away with here.
Have you called how anincreasing number of elements of
the world around us, which wereassumed to be automatic, always
going to be there, aren't anylonger?
Or if they do remain, they'redrastically changed, and
healthcare is certainly noexception with this idea.
The healthcare industry, allthat's associated with it, has
(22:34):
created challenging times formajor hospitals, which over time
in different ways has beenaddressed.
Those same challenges are evengreater for the smaller rural
hospitals to the point wheremany communities are at risk of
losing their local immediatepath to health care, but they
haven't already.
During the discussions last yearover health care costs,
Medicare, Medicaid, you mighthave caught what was, in fact, a
(22:57):
bipartisan demand that ruralhospitals received the financial
lifeline that they needed.
Joining us now to explain whatthat lifeline has become and the
ways it will benefit ruralhospitals is the CEO of
Government Market Strategies,Joanne Frederick.
How are you today, Joanne?
SPEAKER_03 (23:14):
I'm doing very well, Chris.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
And learn more about Government Market Strategies,
Market Strategiesonline.com.
We do have that link at ourhomepage.
It's called the Rural HealthTransformation Program.
Talk about what the details are,and this has already been a
apply and be accepted part.
That part of it is over.
So now we're into the executionprogram, which is even more
(23:37):
important, obviously.
But what what are the goals ofwhat are the goals of the rural
health transformation program?
SPEAKER_03 (23:44):
Absolutely.
So to sort of level seteveryone, it's a major new
federal initiative and it isabout$50 billion over five
years.
And as you said, Chris, it'sreally designed to strengthen
health care in rural communitiesacross the country.
It will be administered by theCenters for Medicare and
Medicaid Services, or CMS, andevery state, including New
(24:05):
Jersey, has the opportunity todesign its own strategy to
improve access, workforce, andlong-term sustainability.
And this is one of the largestfederal investments in rural
health in decades.
SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
Some important stats.
One third in financial straightsand at risk of closing their
rural hospitals.
We've seen them reduce inpatientservices, becoming outpatient
(24:41):
emergency care centers, andbecause of cost, the trying to
keep up with technology forespecially rural hospitals has
been has been very challenging.
How how is the what what are thestates obligated to do?
How much is left to thehospitals to say here's what's
best for us to do?
SPEAKER_03 (25:03):
Absolutely.
So let's talk about New Jerseyspecifically.
And and um when people thinkabout New Jersey, they don't
always think rural, but thereare over a half a million
residents considered in ruralcommunities in New Jersey, and
that's about six percent of thestate.
And those communities face realchallenges, fewer providers,
workforce shortages, higherimpact from substance use
disorder, and less access topreventive care.
(25:27):
And because of that, New Jerseystepped up in a big way and is
looking for a billion dollarsover five years, with about 147
million starting in year one,which is this year.
So even in a highly rural urbanstate, rural disparities are
significant, and this kind ofinvestment shows just how
serious New Jersey is aboutaddressing them.
(25:47):
And to your specific question,Chris, uh what is near what is
New Jersey doing?
Really looking at a balanced,practical approach, not just
adding services, but rethinkinghow care is delivered and
focusing on five key areasworkforce, recruitment and
retention, stabilizinghospitals, federally qualified
(26:08):
health centers, and behavioralhealth providers, expanding care
beyond facilities to includetelehealth or mobile care and
remote monitoring, investing inprevention and community health,
and improving data use andchronic disease management
across the state.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Mentioning New Jersey and staying in New
Jersey, and that's what we'rebased on if you're listening on
the podcast instead of theradio.
Something of a concern hadhappened and developed over the
years.
There was a small rural hospitalin the town of Sussex, New
Jersey.
Then the the trend of networkinguh hospitals together uh
(26:43):
eventually found its way intoNew Jersey.
Sussex Hospital was part of a anetworked situation, but then
because it was financiallyunderperforming, it became first
an outpatient service, and theneventually now it's a c it's a
totally empty building, empty tothis day.
How much is this program goingto prevent what happened to that
(27:05):
hospital in Sussex, New Jerseyfrom happening in places like
Montana or the Dakotas whererural hospitals are much more
prevalent and certainly mostmuch much more vital to offering
full care as opposed tooutpatient care?
SPEAKER_03 (27:21):
That is a very complex question, Chris.
I'll do my best.
So this funding really uh thestate decides what to do with
the funding.
So it is up to each individualstate to say, are we is our
priority to stop these ruralhospitals from closing, or is
our priority to wrap aroundadditional services in those
areas that might take the placefor uh of those hospitals?
(27:44):
The the consolidation ofhospital facilities and the
investment in hospitals acrossthe country will continue, and
this rural health transformationprogram in and of itself can't
really prevent uh for-profitentities from uh purchasing
hospitals and then deciding thatthey're not performing and close
(28:05):
them.
So this uh this grant and thisyou know$50 billion across the
country, a billion for uhroughly each state about a
billion over five years will bedeployed in different ways.
And I would encourage all ofyour listeners to engage with
their local elected officials totalk about what should happen
(28:25):
and how we really stabilize ourrural health care facilities
across the nation.
The federal government has handit will hand the money out, the
states have the power to decidehow to do it, but nowhere in
this grant program is an abilityto uh stop market forces and
public uh publicly tradedcompanies from continuing to
(28:47):
purchase and consolidate healthcare across the nation.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
So with Joanne Frederick, who is CEO of uh
Government Market Strategies,Market StrategiesOnline.com,
talking about rural hospitalsand a financial lifeline that
they've received in herelistening to issues and ideas.
And it's important, isn't it,isn't it, Joanne?
For people who remember and Isay this about my industry to
radio, it's called radiobusiness for a reason.
(29:11):
Without the business side, thereis no performance that's going
to happen.
Same with hospitals, it has tobe understood that part of the
practice, part of the machine isbusiness.
It has to make money to keep thelights on, keep the doors open,
hire the staff.
And business is an element,financials are an element.
Some people might arch theirback at that, but this isn't I
(29:32):
mean charity care is charitycare is well and great, but a
hospital of any size can't existon offering up charity care.
SPEAKER_03 (29:41):
Absolutely.
You know, there's nothinginherently evil about making
money and profiting.
I it's really the balance andand how do we make sure we're
we're taking care of people andalso taking care of our
businesses in every state acrossthe nation?
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
If this program succeeds, I mean this is uh a
10-year period.
How much of a program like thiswinds up being ingrained into
the health care process and thefinancial support that the
federal government gives?
You know, can this be the a newversion of a a Medicare system
that reimburses, you know,Medicare reimburses hospitals
(30:17):
and doctors?
Is this going to be does thishave the potential of being a
new foundational program to helpsupport and keep alive uh a
medical a health care system asfully and as strongly as
possible?
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
So this is really a once-in-a-generation investment
to improve rural health care.
Will it turn into a new uhnational program or even
state-based program?
Probably not.
But what it can do and will doand should do and is designed to
do is really prove out pilotsand demonstrate how different
approaches in different areascan actually be impactful and
(30:56):
effective for the people on theground.
And that's the that's really theimport here.
All 50 states are doingsomething slightly differently.
All of them uh were approved bythe federal government to
receive this funding, and wehave to remember that it is
quite the cliche now, buthealthcare is local.
So what might work in Montana isnot necessarily what will work
(31:17):
in New Jersey, etc.
And it really is inherent uponthe the healthcare leaders in
the state, in each individualstate, to say what what are our
priorities, what do we need toprotect, and then how can we use
this money and invest this moneyin ways that not only help us
today, but to your point, willset us up for success well into
(31:39):
the future.
And this program absolutely hasthe capability and possibility
to do that, and we are very muchlooking forward to working with
all the states uh to implementthose projects.
SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
Yeah, and like I said back in the introduction,
the rural hospital was becomingan endangered species because of
changes in other aspects andareas of of health care and
health care providing.
So with this program that ishere, is active, and is looking
to be as effective as possible,the rural health transformation
program.
And don't be afraid by that wordtransformation.
(32:11):
A lot of people I was looking atsome some analysis and they were
focusing on this word.
Does that mean elimination?
Well, it depends on what the uhindividual hospital is doing,
whether they're doing it well,whether this program can take
what's uh lacking and build it,or does it have to be altered or
yeah, there will be elimination.
If it's not being profitable,it's not being effective, not
(32:34):
serving the local community,then why would one want to have
a continue when it uh could bemoney, as they say, better spent
and more effectively?
Find out more.
We're gonna put the documentfrom the federal government
about the rural healthtransformation on the downloads
page.
You can look up your specificstate to see how the plan is
going to be implemented and findout more about government market
(32:55):
strategies, of which Joanne isthe CEO of Market
StrategiesOnline.com.
Joanne Frederick, thank you somuch for helping us better
understand.
Change is always uh a time ofanxiety, but uh more often than
not it could be a good thing,and this sounds like it is one
of those times it's going to bea good thing.
Thanks for being here today.
Thank you, guys.
I appreciate it.
(33:16):
Question for you.
How important is heritage toyou?
Do you consider it to be a partof your ancestry or your
identity?
Another question for you.
What if your heritage was withinreach, but it was being
smothered by evil and violentacts?
Could you deal with that?
That's something my next guesthas lived with and more
importantly strongly respondedto.
(33:38):
While born here in the US, hisfamily relocated to Iran, where
the Islamic Revolution madeattacking freedoms of all kinds
of priority.
He joins us to offer his insightinto what the Iranian people are
experiencing and trying tosurvive in for them what's a
multi-front battle.
His upcoming book where he tellshis personal story, his passport
(33:59):
to freedom from Tehran toTriumph.
He's also chairman of the boardof the Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center, as well asfounder and chair of the
Sympatigo Foundation.
Dr.
Nizam Musagi, how are you today,Doctor?
SPEAKER_02 (34:13):
I'm very well, Chris.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
I appreciate you taking the time and certainly
making your life an open bookwith your experiences.
Two websites, we do have them atthe homepage, too, IranHrdc.org
and the Sympatigo.org.
Find out more about thoseorganizations that Dr.
Musagi is related to.
Let us start with your storybecause as I said, you were born
in the US, family relocated intoIran.
(34:39):
At what point, at what stage wasthe revolution underway?
And that also brings about thequestion for the person
listening, I'm sure, as it doesfor me, in a place where that
Islamic revolution washappening, why would other than
for heritage and family, wouldone want to go back there?
SPEAKER_02 (34:58):
I was born in the US during the time when my mother
was doing her pediatricresidency in New York, and her
residency finished in 1976.
At the time I was an infant, andmy parents opted to move back to
Iran because they wanted to helpdevelop their nation and uh be
(35:19):
productive members of society.
1976 is about three years beforethe um 1979 revolution.
And so at the time they did notknow that the revolution was
about to happen.
Iran was an island of uh safetyand security, it was a place
where uh Iranians uh had andthey still continue to have a
(35:43):
significant affinity too.
So they went back not knowingwhat would happen, and of course
their lives were amended uh bythe 1970s Islamic revolution, of
course, the war that followedwith Iraq for eight years
afterwards.
Um if you ask my parents, my momis parents, or you ask my
father, he would still say thathe has no regrets for going back
(36:05):
because he felt a calling to bethere and be able to uh
contribute to Iran as hishomeland, uh, but unfortunately
the circumstances reallysignificantly restricted their
ability to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
Talk about what it was like coming of age in an
environment like that, becauseif you're an infant three years
before, around four or fiveyears old is when everything
started to happen or fall apartas one whatever way one wants to
term it.
So talk about the those earlyyears of your awareness and was
what was going on around youjust for lack of better phrase,
(36:43):
just seemed to be normalcy.
SPEAKER_02 (36:47):
Absolutely.
Um one of the things that uhreally uh uh is prominent in my
mind is that uh there is aduality of existence.
There is what you could say inthe outside world that would be
safe and uh would not get youinto trouble, and there is the
(37:07):
level of free speech that youcould have at home.
And the two of them were verydiscordant.
You could at home be critical ofthe Islamic regime, you could
understand that you know, evenin private parties where parents
are uh having conversations,they would be very critical of
the leadership and the decisionsthat they would make, such as
the rating of the US Embassy orthe policies that led to the uh
(37:32):
start of the Iraq war, forexample, but they would always
tell you that our privateconversations are never to be
repeated outside.
Uh there were attempts by evenschool principals and teachers
to try to understand who wouldbe against the revolution
through extracting or exactinginformation from children.
(37:53):
So I remember a time when uh ateacher walked into the uh
classroom with what appeared tobe a shot glass, a very small uh
glass in his hand, and said,Hey, whose parents drink water
out of cups like this?
And a few kids left their feet,they're like mine do.
And so, just so that they wouldknow whose homes would have
alcohol in them, for example.
(38:15):
Um but we generally had to bevery careful with the expression
that the walls have ears, thatif you say anything to expose
your family, they could be introuble, your home could be
raided, and their parents couldbe taken in for interrogation
and sometimes detained for along time without any sort of
(38:35):
explanation.
And the kinds of securitycharges that that would level
against ordinary citizens, suchas waging war against God or
spreading corruption on earth,could carry the death penalty.
So you have to be very carefulwithin this very significant and
heavy security environment.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
Dr.
Nizam Masaki, his upcoming book,Passport to Freedom from Tehran
to Triumph.
He's chairman of the board ofthe Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center, founderand chair of the Sympatigo
Foundation, Iran HRDC.org, theSympatigo.org, the respective
websites.
We have them on the homepage aswell, and you're listening to
issues and ideas.
What you just said, Doctor,brings me to a, I think, an
(39:13):
important point people listeninghere in America certainly need
to know and understand.
It's it's well accepted andunderstood that when it comes to
human rights, Iran historicallyhas been horrendous.
And but human human rightsviolations in Iran don't begin
and end with wrongfulimprisonment.
It goes uh uh gets a great dealmore violent than that, doesn't
(39:37):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:38):
Absolutely does.
They would uh they ressignificantly restrict freedom
of speech, and those who dare tospeak will face the most severe
of consequences, and they couldhave the uh seizure of their
assets, they could have uh yearsor decades that they would have
to spend in prison, and theproblem is not just with the
(40:00):
people whose rights areviolated, but every one of these
people has families, and you canimagine the generational trauma
and impact it would have on thechildren and on spouses and the
economic disaster that theywould have to uh face when their
loved ones are taken away oreven in some circumstances
executed for uh basically notfalling in line.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Help us understand the Iranian people right now,
because human nature being whatit is, you're you're
constrained, you're you're feelabandoned maybe even by the
world around you and you're leftto yourself.
We saw the uprising advancerather significantly now over a
decade ago when Barack Obama waspresident here in the US, and we
(40:46):
failed to give it any kind ofmeaningful support other than a
few days afterwards.
Well, nice try, hope you havebetter luck next time.
But today, in the here and now,when the new leadership makes a
public appearance of any kind,as whenever whenever they have
the feud times in light ofeverything happening, the people
come out and cheer.
Is that because much like uh anabused spouse falls in love with
(41:09):
her captor to try to have atleast one more day of peace?
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Yeah.
Um so, like any other society,Iran is not a monolithic
society.
The people certainly havedifferent opinions and beliefs.
Uh, the general understanding,and uh of course we have to
understand that it's verydifficult to do any scientific
polling in a country that is soclosed and does not allow any
foreign um journalists to bepresent.
(41:36):
But the Iranian people generallyare very indeterminate, they are
they have one of the highestliteracy rates in the region,
especially um in the Middle Eastwith women who uh you know, in
some places and neighboringcountries, for example,
Afghanistan, where uh educationis significantly restricted, in
Iran uh now for a couple ofdecades, Iranian women um have
(41:59):
been the majority uh graduatesof universities.
And so Iran is is verysignificantly wired with the
internet, except now for thepast months where the internet
has been completely shut off.
Uh they know how the rest of theworld lives.
They are very significantlysecular, uh which is very
unusual for that region of theworld.
(42:22):
And um but there is also a smallfaction of sycophants and
sympathies of the IslamicRepublic.
There have been someTwitter-based polls that put
that number somewhere aroundeleven to twelve percent.
So the propaganda that comes outof the regime when they shut
down the internet for everybodyelse is they create a rally with
(42:44):
people holding pictures of theayatollah to try to give to the
world an impression that theIranians are also happy with the
leadership and with the IslamicRepublic.
But from all of what we can see,uh the majority of Iranians do
not stand with this IslamicRepublic.
The majority of the Iranians arefreedom seeking people who wish
(43:06):
to have normal lives, basichuman rights, and uh the ability
to thrive, not just survive.
SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
Last question, we ha we have to wrap up here, but
given how the r the leadershipof the country seems to be
getting more and more radicalfor all intents and purposes,
it's the RGC who is runningthings now and uh they make the
previous uh leadership look looklike cooperative uh cohabitants
(43:34):
of a of a nation.
What's the realistic expectationof what's to come once the
expected military actions end inanother two to four weeks from
most expectations?
You know, w what's what's nextfor her run and the and her
people?
SPEAKER_02 (43:50):
Um here, of course, nobody has a crystal ball about
what's going to happen.
The one thing that I can say isthat I am in touch significantly
with people who happen to getonline for brief periods and
send messages through uh thetelegram messaging app.
Uh the there are majority ofpeople that talk to me say that
they're more afraid of thewounded wolf left behind, that's
(44:14):
the Islamic Republic, than themissiles of Israel and the US.
And uh that tells a lot aboutthe repressive nature of this
regime that if they happen tostay in power, the only people
to whom they can show theirpower is the people and they can
brutalize them and they can cutthe rest the Iran from the rest
of the world through uh internetshutouts and all of these
(44:37):
things.
And so so the realisticexpectation I am not certain of
whether some version of theIslamic Republic that's more
moderate is going to say whetherthere's going to be a collapse
and regime change, for example,which I think is the desire of
the majority of Iranians, or umwhether Iran will sink into
(44:59):
something that becomes closer toNorth Korea and completely cut
out from the rest of the worldreally remains to be seen.
But here the people of Iran arehopeful that because their
plight has now aligned with USand Israeli policies because
Iran has also been thisdestabilizing the region, that
(45:20):
hopefully a significantattenuation of power in Iran
will create an opportunity forthem to take to the streets and
take back their own governmentand be more involved in then you
know the self-determination canreturn to the people.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
That would indeed be a blessing with uh organized
resistance that can accomplishas opposed to just push back and
fight.
Looking forward to Dr.
Musaki's book later on thisyear, Passport to Freedom from
Tehran to Triumph visit the siteof the Iran Human Rights
Documentation Center.
It's very informative and willgive you a better understanding
of exactly what the people ofIran have to contend with and
(45:59):
try to survive.
It's Iran HRDC.org.
He's also founder and chair ofthe Sympatigo Foundation, the
Sympatigo.org, that website Dr.
Naz Nizam Musagi, thanks so muchfor telling your story, helping
us better understand thatthere's a human side to what
we're going through and seeing,not just political and military,
and you help us appreciate thehuman side of this whole whole
(46:22):
thing a lot more.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
Chris, thank you so much for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
So I'm tying Homeland Security into voter
identification with picture andproof of citizenship in order to
vote.
And those two items are the mostimportant thing having to do
with Homeland Security.
So it's fun it should be part ofthe Homeland Security.
And I'm requesting that theRepublican senators do that
(46:49):
immediately.
You don't have to take a fencevote.
Don't worry about Easter goinghome.
In fact make this one for Jesusokay make this one for Jesus
that's what I tell him that'd bea damn good thing.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
That was Donald Trump in this past week once
again demanding that Congresspass the Save America Act.
This time he told CongressionalRepublicans to, as you heard,
make this one for Jesus how doesTrump connect Jesus to the Save
America Act?
Well yeah maybe he read that intwo Corinthians.
Remember that Jim by him we'vetalked about the Save America
(47:27):
Act several times here on issuesand ideas.
Think about this would Jesusencourage something that limits,
restricts, even forbids a vitalfreedom like voting would Jesus
cheer on something whichespecially targets women, the
elderly and people of color asyou would expect, Trump's Make
(47:47):
This One for Jesus directivereceived agreement and support
by his followers on social mediaand elsewhere, most likely
because they believe that theSave America Act is something
that Jesus wants what thatreveals is a drastic and
dangerous lack of understandingabout the wants and the desires
of Jesus.
That absence of that awarenessabout Jesus is not really just
(48:10):
limited to Trump supporters.
A lot of people ask the questionwhat does Jesus want?
They treat it as a mystery andthat's unnecessary because Jesus
makes his wants as clear as itcould possibly be example Jesus
wants us to follow him.
He says this to Peter and hisbrother Andrew in Matthew
chapter four verse nineteen thenhe, Jesus said to them, Follow
(48:34):
me and I will make you fishersof men.
Jesus expands on this in Johnchapter twelve verse twenty six
if anyone serves me, let himfollow me and where I am there
my servant will be also ifanyone serves me, him my father
will honor Jesus wants to serve.
This is what he says to us inMark chapter ten verse forty
(48:56):
five for even the Son of man didnot come to be served but to
serve and to give his life aransom for many.
Jesus wants us to watch watchfor what?
Watch for the signs of hisreturn.
Let's turn to Luke chaptertwelve verses thirty seven and
thirty eight Blessed are thoseservants whom the master when he
(49:18):
comes will find watching forsurely I say to you that he will
gird himself and have them sitdown to eat, and will come and
serve them.
And if he should come in thesecond watch or come in the
third watch and find them so,blessed are those servants.
Those words of Jesus to us arevital in understanding and
knowing him it's the prayer byJesus that we read in the
(49:40):
seventeenth chapter of John thatby far is most revealing.
Jesus starts by praying toFather God to be glorified by
him, as Jesus in his time onearth glorified the Father, then
he prays for his disciples,saying this in John chapter
seventeen verse thirteen But nowI come to you and these things I
speak in the world that they mayhave my joy fulfilled in
(50:03):
themselves.
Jesus adds this in verse fifteenI do not pray that you should
take them out of the world, butthat you should keep them from
the evil one.
Jesus wants us to be sanctifiedthat means to be pure and holy
Jesus asks Father God for thisin verse nineteen and for their
sakes I sanctify them, that theyalso may be sanctified by the
(50:27):
truth.
But Jesus saves the best forlast.
He wants us to be one with himcontinuing with what Jesus prays
starting in verse twenty, I donot pray for these alone, but
also for those who will believein me through their word, that
they all may be one as youFather are in me and I in you,
that they also be one in us,that the world may believe that
(50:51):
you sent me and the glory whichyou gave me I have given them,
that they may be one just as weare one, I in them and you in
me, that they may be madeperfect in one, and that the
world may know that you havesent me and have loved them as
you have loved me.
How often have you heard someonein declaring the faith say I've
(51:15):
accepted Jesus Well that'sthat's mighty big you there.
No no it's Jesus who accepts usand wants us to be with him.
Says this in verse 24 Father Idesire that they also whom you
gave me may be with me where Iam, that they may behold my
glory which you have given mefor you loved me before the
(51:38):
foundation of the world.
Jesus offers you his eternallove and asks for that same
eternal love from you and putyou in the same place that we
find Simon Peter in John chaptertwenty one, starting with verse
fifteen So when they had eatenbreakfast Jesus said to Simon
Peter, Simon son of Jonah, doyou love me more than these?
(51:59):
He said to him, Yes Lord, youknow that I love you he said to
him feed my lambs.
So to him again a second time,Simon son of Jonah, do you love
me?
He said to him Yes Lord you knowthat I love you.
He said to him Tend my sheep Hesaid to him a third time of
Jonah do you love me?
(52:19):
Peter was grieved because hesaid to him the third time Do
you love me?
And he said to him Lord you knowall things you know that I love
you.
And Jesus said to him feed mysheep So what kind of love are
we talking about?
A love that's total a lovethat's complete a love that is
(52:39):
eternal.
Devoted love which has Jesusfirst then everyone everything
else second.
Are you repelled by that truthbecause you think it means
dumping people and getting ridof stuff from your life well
that's not what Jesus is askingof you.
As long as they're godly andgood, especially blessings from
Father God, the people andpossessions of your life will
(53:02):
stay a part of your life.
Your love of Jesus will actuallyadd to your life because as one
of his faithful who loves him,you become part of the body of
the church who praise andworship him.
All of this will bring to youthe reward that Jesus asks
Father God for in John chapterseventeen verse twenty six and I
have declared to them your nameand will declare it that the
(53:24):
love with which you love me maybe in them and I in them.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite issues and ideas radio
dot com that's where you'll findthe information about the guests
who are here on the show with ustoday.
Downloads page we've been addinga lot of stuff to that in recent
days.
And of course if you'relistening via your favorite
(53:44):
podcast platform make sure yousubscribe and follow.
Always thankful and grateful foryour time and your attention
very special and important tous.
Look forward to being with youright here this time next week
for our next edition of Issuesand ideas
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