May 31, 2026 • 55 mins
Join us for expert discussions and analysis on today's news, politics, ICE actions at Delaney Hall in Newark NJ, Trump's Iran war policies, the early days of Pope Leo's papacy, the many ways that cuts to healthcare programs will impact all of America, how to prevent Lyme Disease and what the Bible teaches about revealing what's hidden in darkness.
(00:00) Kathy O'Leary, coordinator with Pax Christi and Lead Organizer with Eyes On ICE NJ, shares details about the conditions detainees at the ICE operated Delaney Hall in Newark NJ are being subjected to which include denial of healthcare, substandard living conditions, denial of rights and unhealthy food.
(16:13) Former U.S. House Of Representatives member and former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican Francis Rooney discusses how the Trump Administration is conducting the Iran war gives his insight into the early days of the papacy of Pope Leo.
(27:01) Sean Strub, Founder of the Sero Project, explains how the Seven Days In June nationwide events will raise awareness of the pending federal government cuts to healthcare programs.
(37:36) Kurt Avery, Founder of Sawyer, offers tips on how to avoid ticks and prevent Lyme Disease through very easy actions.
(49:07) Chris DeBello reveals what the Bible teaches about confronting darkness with light.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Oh, welcome to Excuse and Ideas.
I'm Christopello.
Last week we witnessed in NewJersey another example of how
ICE conducts their operations.
They seem to do it in a hiddenway, while resisting even trying
to intimidate anyone, includingelected leaders, who want access
to what ICE agents are doing andhow they're treating the people
that they're responsible for.
(00:20):
Latest incident has beenunfolding in Newark, New Jersey
at Delaney Hall, which, by theway, is a privately owned
detention facility that ICE isoperating from.
All that's unfolded this pastMonday, the outrage has
continued all through this pastweek.
All this also brings with it therealization that if Ice is
operating like this at this onelocation, is it logical to
(00:43):
believe that they're doing so atall locations?
My first guest today has been onthe ground at Delaney Hall and
is here to give a fullunderstanding of all of this.
She's a coordinator with PaxChristie, New Jersey, as well as
a lead organizer of the protestat Delaney Hall, Kathy O'Leary.
Thanks for being here today,Kathy.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01):
Sure.
I just want to correctsomething.
I am not a lead organizer of theprotests.
I am a lead uh uh organizer ofEyes on Ice.
Eyes on Ice has been uh takingcare of the uh and supporting
support for the visitors whocome to visit their loved ones
uh inside Delaney Hall and be insolidarity with them and their
(01:23):
uh and the people inside uh forover a year now.
Uh we've been here seven days aweek.
We are here every time there arevisiting hours uh for the
entirety of visiting hours tohelp people get in to see their
loved ones because we understandthat getting people in to see
their loved ones is the mostpowerful form of resistance that
(01:44):
we can muster uh because thatgives them the strength and the
courage to continue fightingtheir cases or uh to decide that
uh as a family that it might bebetter if uh if they return to
uh the the person with detentionreturns to their growth country.
(02:04):
So uh we've been doing that forover a year.
What happened?
Uh there's been organizinginside of Delaney Hall since uh
that we were aware of since theend of January.
Uh at that point we were madeaware of a letter that 25 people
inside of Delaney Hall signed umand were able to get out of the
(02:27):
facility.
Um and uh we published thatletter.
Um and uh then we became awareabout a month ago of a second
letter that was signed by almost300 people inside the facility.
So the first letter was signeduh simply by people uh in a
single unit, uh which isn't umyou know, which which which you
(02:52):
can kinda imagine how uh thatwould be simpler to organize.
Um but the when you get to a toa two hundred and something plus
uh almost three hundred personletter, um that means they were
organized across units and notjust across the units of the
men, but also uh women, um uhmany, many almost all the entire
unit of the women had signed theletter as well.
(03:15):
So um that was um anextraordinary um piece of
organizing in itself.
And then uh last Friday uh therewas a rally uh organized by a
family member and um and uhsupported by other families um
(03:35):
uh outside Delaney Hall, atwhich point men from inside of
Delaney Hall pulled out andannounced that they were on a
labor and hunger strike.
It is not a hung just a hungerstrike, it is also a labor
strike.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Captain Can I stop you there for a second?
Because a lot of people don'tunderstand this.
When uh you say labor strike,it's a more accurate term, it's
slave labor because aren't theygetting paid a grand total of a
dollar a day and the price andthe and the and ICE excuses as
paying.
Yeah, but they use the money tobuy stuff at the commissary,
completely ignoring the factthat the commissary prices are
(04:12):
astronomically outrageous that aday's work at a dollar a a day,
you're going to get jacked ifthat.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
It functions the same way every other prison
does, where people are forced towork for uh for meager wages and
and then forced to buynecessities at the commissary.
This is a tax on the families.
A tax on the families in ICEdetention, it's a tax on the
families in our prisons andjails.
This is that this is this isnothing new.
Um but and that the prisons uhrequire their labor to run.
(04:46):
So that's as I was saying, thelabor strike is is is more
effective than the hunger strikein many ways.
Well the hunger strike gets theheadlines, the labor strike is
what cripples the facility.
So and that's what's beenhappening.
The when the uh legislators camein the other day, um usually
what would happen is that the uhthe the people inside who were
(05:08):
detained inside would be wokenup at the wee hours in the
morning and forced to clean uhthe the units uh without any uh
you know, out uh without anygloves, any protective uh uh
gear at all, and then withoutwithout sufficient supplies
either.
Um uh but uh when the um uhlegislators came in uh this
(05:32):
week, the um the administrationof the jail was forced to clean
the toilets.
So that's uh something that I'mI'm uh a little bit of joy that
I'm hanging on hanging on toright now.
Um so um yeah.
So they're but unfortunatelythose the the fact that the
prison is not running properlyalso is some is is borne
(05:56):
primarily on the people inside.
So they're not getting umthey're not getting uh their
their their their bathrooms areare f filthier than usual,
right?
Because they're not cleaningthem and they're they have no
clean sheets.
Uh and I I heard uh one onefamily member said they have no
sheets at all.
Um uh yeah, so they're and theythey're so they're dealing with
(06:19):
uh and they're they're eatingoff of paper plates and that
kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
So um, and that's and that's it and that's if they
can eat the food.
I've heard reports saying thefood is maggot-filled, uh the
water is is as close to sewagewater as you can get out of a
tap.
Sometimes some people have saidit's just sea water with how
salty it is.
These these are in no way,shape, or form humane
conditions.
(06:43):
And when you look at statisticsand these are ice statistics, by
the way.
Right.
Five percent of those incustody, five percent have a
criminal record, seventy-threepercent, no arrests.
SPEAKER_04 (06:53):
We don't we don't use the we don't use those we
don't use those um statistics umbecause it doesn't matter.
Uh it doesn't matter.
If these are our neighbors, itdoesn't matter.
Um because um it it doesn'tmatter what you did.
It doesn't matter what the worstthing you did in your life was,
you are a human being and you'reentitled to human rights.
SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
And you're on American soil, and I know that's
there are people who aren'tgonna like what I'm about to
say, but the U.S.
Constitution affords everyperson on American soil due
process rights and rights toliberty and freedom and humane
treatment.
That's that's a given.
There there's no debate aboutthat.
Even Justice Justice AntoninScalia agreed with that.
SPEAKER_04 (07:36):
Uh yeah, but that's never been our practice.
And it hasn't been our practiceum since uh since I since ICE
was founded, uh certainly.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Oh no.
No, absolutely not.
I mean uh and and when they tryto defend themselves, they
defend themselves by lying aboutthe what's uh that the uh what
what are some of the things Iheard that there's no hunger
strike in there.
Uh they can come uh electedofficials come in any time they
want.
SPEAKER_04 (07:59):
Had a federal judge come to the determination
recently, Michael, we're allwe're but we're all focusing on
the wrong things right now.
We are focusing on what'shappening outside, we're
focusing on the politicians,we're not focusing on the people
inside.
The demands of the people insideare very clear.
And even before they publishedthe demands, they were telling
legislators who were coming tovisit that we don't want you to
(08:22):
focus on conditions.
We don't want to be comfy iswhat they said.
That we say they said we do notwant to be comfy, we want to be
free, we want to get out.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
So uh but then the curse becomes the curse becomes
you need the politicians, youneed point A to get to point B.
So how do you c how do you closethat gap now?
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
Well, uh, you know, it would be helpful if um if
people started humanizing thepeople inside of detention as
opposed to focusing on what thepoliticians are doing or what
protesters outside the facilityare doing.
There are now three letterspublished.
How about people go read thoseletters, find out what people
said, start sharing thoseletters, talking about the
(09:02):
people inside as people, not asstatistics and and demanding and
demanding that accountabilitynot just from Republicans but
from Democrats too, who havevoted over and over and over
again for more and more moneyfor ICE.
This facility and this systemthat as it exists today was
built under Bill Clinton.
(09:23):
Belaney Hall last was last uh umuh ran as a as an ICE detention
center under Bush.
It ran as an ICE detentioncenter under Obama and it was on
President Biden's list to reopenas a detention center.
Had Harris run re-election,Belaney Hall would be open.
And we wouldn't be talking abouthow horrible the conditions are
(09:45):
inside because because uh thereseems to be an idea that when
Democrats run ice jails, they'rebetter.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
And uh as I mentioned back in the
introduction, this has become anindustry.
GEO Group, for example, ownsDelaney Hall, a billion dollar
contract, and they got that bydoing winning political favors
and making donations to theright people.
SPEAKER_04 (10:09):
So for the person they've always done that.
They have always done that, andthey make donations to to
Democrats as well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Absolutely.
But for the person listeningright now, Kathy, what what do
you what can what are you doingto help people realize this is a
an issue of humanity, notpolitics.
SPEAKER_04 (10:29):
We are talking about the people inside.
We're talking about the pregnantwomen who are inside who are
miscarrying.
We're talking about the the howthe people inside yesterday, we
are every well every again,everyone is focused on how the
people outside are being teargassed and beaten, right?
And and stepersprayed andbeaten.
Yesterday there was a there waspeaceful resistance inside.
(10:53):
Uh they were try they weretrying to remove the man who was
acting as a translator for theunit.
He was bilingual, uh, so he wastranslating from English to
Spanish and Spanish to Englishfor the rest of the men in the
unit they were trying to removehim to break the strike.
And when everyone gatheredaround him to keep them from
(11:15):
pulling him out of the unit,they w with their hands raised
and their backs to the guardssurrounding this man to protect
him, they started gettingbeaten.
And then they threw uh eitherpepper spray, what the what
actually what the men describedas tear gas, uh in the hallways.
(11:37):
Started beating people withbatons, and this is forty
guards, started with fortyguards and then ice came in
afterwards.
This is the end, these are thisis based on accounts that we got
directly from people inside andfrom their family members.
Uh started beating them, forcedthem into their rooms, pepper
spray spray pepper spray in theroom, then lock them in and shut
(11:59):
off the ventilation.
That's what happened to themyesterday.
Now they're on lockdown, theyhave no tablets.
If they're on lockdown, lockedin the rooms, they have no
access to phones.
They've taken away themicrowave, so whatever whatever
commissary they had saved up,they can no longer use.
They have if you can't get to atablet, anybody who knows
anything about a prison knowsthat you can't do anything
(12:20):
without a tablet because youcan't get a sick call.
You can't cause that becausesick calls go through the
tablets.
Access to commissary goesthrough the tablets.
Access to your moving movingmoney from your commissary fund
to your phone fund so you cancontinue to have m continue to
have money to call your lovedones, it goes through the
tablets.
So uh so they've taken thetablets away, they've taken the
(12:42):
phones away by putting them onlockdown, and they've taken away
the microwaves.
So uh and they can't get themicrowave anyhow because they're
on lockdown.
So they are and they've beenretaliating against all these
folks inside.
They have continued to findcreative ways to push back
against uh their uh theirtreatment and to get their cries
(13:02):
heard.
They w the other day whenlegislators were inside, they
were out in the rec yard andthey were marching in unison
shouting libertad, libertad,which means freedom, freedom,
and they were threatened withsome kind of chemical agent.
They were the uh guards weretrying to go with them into a
fight and they didn't take thebait.
(13:25):
These they these these this isextraordinary.
This is extraordinary organizingthat's going on inside.
This is the story.
This is what we should betalking about.
We should be talking about howhow multiple people inside are
married to US citizens, howmultiple people inside are um
(13:45):
are are being threatened with uhdeportation to the DRC.
There's there's uh people insidewith with cancer, there's people
inside with HIV, there's peopleinside who have been held in
medical isolation for over ahundred days.
So this is what we should betalking about, and we should be
(14:06):
saying that all of these peopleneed their freedom.
SPEAKER_00 (14:11):
And that's exactly what you're doing.
For the person listening rightnow, let's wrap the segment up
with this with label for aperson listening right now who
wants to do more than postcomments on social media.
What can they do to be activelyhelping these people?
SPEAKER_04 (14:25):
They can donate to the commissary funds, to the
legal funds, to the uh anddirectly to the families through
the link tree.
They can find all of these linkson the uh Pox Christie N J
Instagram account, uh at P-A-X,C H R I S T I N J at Instagra on
(14:51):
Instagram, um and and donate.
And please donate to theGoFundMe's.
That goes directly to thefamilies.
The families are hurting.
There's a bread the breadthere's a breadwinner inside
general almost always, and umthey still have to feed their
families and pay their rent, andnow they have to pay for
thousands and thousands of ofdollars in legal fees, and and
(15:14):
then when they do finally getthe get a bond, they have to pay
tens of possibly tens ofthousands of dollars to get
their loved one out, to pay theransom to get their loved one
out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
We're gonna put the link of to the Instagram account
over on a homepage for youlistening so you can have easy
access to it.
You don't have to be fumblingfor a peop uh pen and piece of
paper right now.
And Kathy, I want to thank youand eyes on ice and everything
you're doing because as you justdid here, you you helped us
place the focus where it needsto be, to the point where I want
to correct myself on something Isaid not too long ago.
(15:47):
I was pushing back againstpeople who were comparing the
detention centers toconcentration camps, but from
what you have let us understand,they are indeed 21st century
concentration camps.
It was wrong.
It was wrong then, it's equallywrong now, and it's gonna be the
truth and the people that aregonna make this better for these
people who are wronglyimprisoned.
(16:09):
So thank you, Kathy.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Among all the events unfolding in front of us, the
need to pay attention to one Ithink is obvious, while another,
I believe, is insightful.
The obvious is the foreignpolicy of the Trump
administration, specifically howDonald Trump is conducting the
war in Iran.
The insightful is what Popolillohas been saying and explaining
in the early days of his papacy.
(16:33):
Both of these, I think, areeducational, but only if you
have a factual understandingabout them.
And that's why we turn to mynext guest serving the U.S.
House of Representatives,representing Florida's 19th
District.
That was from 2017-2021.
Before that, he served as theU.S.
Ambassador to the Holy See forPresident George W.
Bush's administration.
(16:54):
That was 2005-2008.
He's also author of the book,The Global Vatican.
Ambassador Francis Rooney, howare you today, Ambassador?
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
I appreciate you taking the time on this.
Uh certainly with everythingmoving as fast as it does, it
can be confusing, especially iflet's start with the policy with
the war in Iran, because itseems like there's uh the hint
of a settlement, at least for aceasefire.
I mean, this is going to be amultiple part uh resolution of
all this, but uh then it'salmost as if Donald Trump thinks
(17:27):
of whatever he thinks of thatday, that's the new reason for
the war, and that means all thenegotiations have to start over
again.
Help us make sense of what we'reseeing unfolding with this
unfortunately fluid, I guess Ishould say, activity with policy
regarding the war in Iran.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Well, I don't think very much of uh what's happened
with Iran and the United Statesmakes any sense at all.
I don't know why he picked thatfight.
They didn't go into it uh havingthought out all the options.
They prevaricated about thedifferent reasons for their
actions, and now they seem tohave settled on the nuclear
thing, but uh they'll probablyprevaricate on that again.
SPEAKER_00 (18:06):
Yeah, I mean just mentioned here of Just the other
day he all of a sudden he popsin with the Abraham Accords.
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
Yeah.
He it's distractive.
And I think he'll do anythingjust to keep the people
distracted on how ignorant thepolicy was in the first place.
And he's gonna wind up making adeal that's probably no better
than what Obama got.
It's that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
Well, I I heard someone talk about this too.
It seems like whenever they'regetting close, the negotiators,
the tight Trump circle turn toTrump and say, you know, it's
not gonna be as good as whatObama got, and then that's when
that's what compels Trump totrash everything and make them
start all over again.
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Right.
Because Trump compareseverything to what Obama got.
Everything in the world is areferendum on Trump.
How often you praise him, howoften you butter him up, uh uh
how he can say he succeededwhere no other president has
succeeded, all these things arekind of excessive.
Excessive of his personality.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
Not to be conspiratorial, but how much of
Trump's efforts are meant to beserving Israel's priorities?
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Oh, I think a lot of them.
I think Netanyahu kind of goadedhim into taking this step.
And uh I don't think Trump I'msorry I say, I don't think
Trump's guys thought it throughwhat they really could
accomplish with Iran and howwily the Iranians are, and how
it was really Netanyahu'sproblem, not ours.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
And as as history shows, too, it's it's totally
realistic to believe that Iranwould agree to would not agree
to anything tougher than thetwin twenty fifteen nuclear
deal, and they're willing tosacrifice the majority of their
population, certainly if itmeans harming in any way, shape,
or form America as well asIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
Yeah, you know, uh our our United States and many
Western countries have realtrouble appreciating the depth
of the difference betweencountries that value life and
countries that don't.
The countries that don't valuelife have some significant
weaponry to deploy that we cantotally not can't really totally
comprehend.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
And this isn't to be in any favor, any way, shape, or
form of Iran having nuclearnuclear weapons, but if you look
at the 2015 campaign, at leastuh the the 2015 nuclear
agreement with the U.S.
and multiple other nations,there at least was supervision
and they had a leash on themthat, okay, fine, you you
(20:30):
obviously can use nuclear power.
Any nation would want that.
And the weaponization of it hadat least uh a moderate leak on
it, I guess would be theaccurate thing to say.
And again, this just shows thethe ignorance of what's
happening in the current stateof affair affairs with the Oval
Office and the Trumpadministration.
They had a useful deal insteadof trying to add to it, they
(20:53):
scrapped it and went to startover again.
Here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (20:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I wasn't totally in favor
of the terms that Obama agreedto, and I certainly wasn't in
favor of giving them all thatmoney back.
But Trump's about to talk aboutdoing the same thing, paying
them off again.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
I I heard a figure if if if the if it came to pass,
it could be a potential threehundred billion dollar windfall
for Iran.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Yeah, I just zero makes zero sense.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Starting with Ambassador Francis Rooney, who
served as U.S.
Ambassador to the Holy See forthe uh President George W.
Bush administration, as well asa member of the House of
Representatives representingFlorida's 19th District.
You're listening to issues andideas.
Let us move on to Pope Leobecause I have been ever since
the Boston Globe reporters cameout with the no pun intended,
(21:39):
the Book of Revelations aboutwhat had been going on with the
Catholic Church.
And I've been hard on thechurch, or maybe factually
honest with call it whatever youwant to.
I'm looking at what Pope Leo isdoing.
I think he could restore a lotof what his predecessors allowed
to be lost with the CatholicChurch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
I don't think there's any doubt about it.
I think you're absolutely right.
He uh you can see how calm andjudicious he is versus say Pope
Francis being kind of a uhyelling at people all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
And I think he understands the message of the
gospel like Pope Benedict did,but with a little more powerful
delivery than that.
And uh he's onto something withhis AI.
I mean the parallels betweenright now with AI and
concentration of wealth andinequality are just like 1890
when when Leo the Thirteenthwrote Verum Novara.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
That's one thing that really stood out too when
Pope Leo talked about this andso much more in his Magnificent
Humanitis, which is basicallythe hi, here I am, here's what
I'm all about, uh papal andencyclical.
He's pretty hip to the modernworld.
He's not, you know, we havepeople in Congress, no offense,
you being a former member, butthey're still trying to figure
out flip phones as far astechnology is concerned.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Right.
Yeah, Pope Leo has a keenunderstanding, I think, of the
dangers of AI, and he's willingto have the Vatican weigh in on
the damage it could do tohumanity.
And that's that's really kind ofhis job, as he explained to
Trump.
Uh my job is to preach themessage of the gospel, and your
job is to be president.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
And uh usually never the Twain she'll meet,
unfortunately, but that'sanother debate for another time,
too.
In your time as ambassador, didyou be uh become uh close to or
know of the man who will becomePope Leo?
And does what you see now comeas any surprise to you of the
person you knew then?
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
No surprise at all.
My family's known Pope Leo forabout 40 years.
And um he he was we've been veryinvolved with the Augustinians
because our children went toAugustinian middle, middle, and
high schools.
And uh I was on the board of it,and Pope Leo used to come down
to our board meetings everycouple of months.
And then when uh we lived inRome 2005 through 2008, we saw
(23:52):
him all the time.
We always invited him to everyevent we had at the house that
involved Americans.
And uh he's uh he's gonna be agreat Pope.
I think he could be a great Popefor two different reasons two
reasons, among others.
One, he ran that order and hashad to deal with people problems
and money problems.
And our popes are not very goodat those things.
We saw the abuse scandals, thehard difficult to deal with
(24:13):
them.
We saw Pope Francis uh bedefrauded out of three hundred
million dollars or so in London.
Uh I don't think you'll see thatstuff with Pope Leo.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
In your book, you wrote about uh in the Global
Vatican, you wrote about softpower and soft diplomacy.
Is that Pope Leo right now?
Or it seems like he went maybe Imean not as loud and bold as
Pope Francis and many of hispredecessors, but if you look
through the timeline of Popes,you go back to Pope Pius XI and
(24:43):
XII, they were certainly absentwhere they needed to be more
present.
Is Pope Leo the the neededcentrist that the Vatican needs?
SPEAKER_02 (24:53):
Well, I think after Pope Francis and Pope Benedict
for different reasons, he is.
I mean Pope Benedict was ascholar, it was very quiet.
Pope Francis was a, you know, aa minister to the poor and very
loud.
I think with Pope Leo, you'llget a lot of Pope Francis'
message, but you'll get itexpressed in a more uh judicious
and rational manner.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
I think much like political parties have to
realize and usually fail to do,I think the Pope Pope Leo
realizes there's a generationalchange that's needed in the
church.
Um certainly with the theabsence of a s sufficient number
of priests, people come peoplecoming into the priesthood, I
think he sounds more of a magnetthan a repellent that other
(25:36):
popes have been more theopposite.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
In indisputably.
In fact, Fox has reported thatchurch attendance uh and
interest in Catholicism amongyoung people is up twelve,
thirteen percent.
And I think that's been r widelycorroborated by other media.
So that's a good thing.
And I think Pope Leo has a lotof responsibility for enthusing
these people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
And he's only getting warmed up too, which is
going to be the fun thing towatch and the interesting as
well, like I said back in theintroduction, when you have the
facts and the reality, what yousee could be a lot more
insightful than just color andnoise.
And Ambassador Rooney has helpedus, I think, better understand
this.
Be sure to get his book too whenit comes to Pop Leo because he
gives you a look inside of uhthe Vatican.
(26:20):
This is 2013, but traditionholds true, and anything pushing
against negative or not fullyaffected tradition is valuable,
and I think Pop Leo is going tobe doing some of that as well.
The book is the Global Vatican,Amazon, Barnesdale, whatever
your favorite means is, he is aformer U.S.
ambassador to the Holy See forPresident George W.
Bush administration, as well asforeign members of the U.S.
(26:42):
House representing Florida's19th Ambassador, Francis Rooney.
Thank you so much for yourinsights and for helping us
better appreciate and understandsome very important matters in
our in our country and world.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
If you're listening to us via your favorite podcast
platform, don't forget to followand subscribe.
Access to healthcare programslike Medicare, Medicaid, your
own health insurance have alwaysbeen challenging.
That's a good word.
Well, considering the changesthat we're planning to start
later on this year, thosechallenges wind up being a fond
memory when compared to whatlies ahead.
(27:16):
The budget bill, which I refuse,by the way, to refer to that
juvenile term that's been taggedwith the past earlier this year,
is going to result in massivecuts, higher cost to health care
programs that people in everysingle community of America rely
on.
It's time for the voice in thewills of we the people.
Step up and step forward.
(27:40):
Here to discuss all this, is oneof the leaders of Seven Days in
June.
He's also founder of the TarotProject, former mayor of
Milford, Pennsylvania.
Sean Strove, how are you today,Sean?
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Hey, I'm fine.
Thank you very much for havingme on the program.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Well, good to have you here.
Talk about this and get peopleactive and aware.
SevendaysInjune.org.
Learn more about what we aretalking about with Sean here.
Just to remind us, Sean, howlooming of a threat is the cut
or the cuts to health care atthis point in time that we we
(28:16):
understand it's uh I know it's atrillion dollars total, but they
they've been a little cutesywith this.
They don't start until after themidterms, as if that's gonna
make a difference.
And it starts a little and thenuh the leak becomes a a breaking
dam sooner versus later.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
You know, a trillion dollars is so abstract.
Who has a grip on what atrillion dollars means, right?
Um the bill that was passed lastyear, HR1 is its technical name,
so we can go just with thatrather than the uh, as you say,
the juvenile label that wasapplied to it.
Uh the tax cuts for people whoare very affluent in
(28:54):
corporations went into effectimmediately.
But the pain, uh health carebudget cuts to help pay for some
of those tax cuts, theimplementation of that was
delayed until most of it isafter the midterm elections this
November, and it was I thinkdelayed for obvious reasons.
(29:14):
Uh the extent of these cuts,there's never been a budget cut
like this in in history uh ever.
Um you know, I we were on theair, we're talking a little bit
about Milford, Pennsylvania, uh,where uh I live.
And uh right in the northwestcorner of New Jersey over
Suffolk County and across theriver, uh, and that's where
(29:34):
Milford is.
Pike County is a rural countywith about 60,000 people.
And between 2027 and 2034, we'relosing almost a quarter of a
billion dollars, 237 milliondollars, in just the Medicaid
and SNAP cuts.
Uh that is dramatic in a littleteeny tiny county like this.
(29:57):
About 19% of our residents inPike County are on Medicaid.
Uh, one out of 10 or 1 out of 9of them are going to lose their
Medicaid coverage.
36% of the children in ourcounty are on Medicaid.
But 60% of the households thatget STAP benefits are going to
lose some or all of thosebenefits.
(30:19):
These are dramatic, dramaticcuts, and they don't affect just
people who uh rely on Medicaidor SAP programs.
Uh they affect everybody.
Because, first of all, uh losingthose benefits puts a burden on
those communities, right?
Are they going to be filled bythe food pantries or by local or
(30:39):
state government?
You know, there's going to betremendous pressure there.
But also, this bill is going toresult in the loss of over a
million jobs across the country,going to force a closure or a
severe cutback in something likeservices, like three to six
hundred hospitals, especially inrural and sparsely populated
areas, which means people aregoing to have to drive farther
(31:01):
for health care.
Uh, there are a whole series ofthings that are going to affect
the economic impacts aretremendous uh as well.
So this is something that isconcerning uh a wide range of
people.
Um most uh we found that mostlocal officials don't understand
that this is coming down thepike and have only be just begun
(31:24):
to start to think aboutcontingencies.
How do they fill the gaps?
How do they deal with theconsequences?
Um that's what Seven Days inJune, which starts on Monday, is
about uh to raise awareness,doing a series of events across
the country.
They're town halls, theirrallies, their marches, their
candidate forums, uh to generatemedia coverage of what the
(31:47):
effects are locally, not thisabstract, you know, trillion
dollars or$1.1 trillion, somesay, uh nationally, but what it
means in individual communities.
Um then we're also a big part ofit is to hold candidates
accountable.
We want health care elevated outof partisan politics.
(32:08):
We want uh it elevated as agoverning priority.
This is part of what we electpeople to do to help protect uh
the health of people in thecountry.
And you know, we can build ahealthier nation.
This is not like, oh, we want,you know, world peace or
something.
This is something within ourgrasp.
We know how to do this.
Uh we just need the politicalwill to make it happen.
(32:30):
Uh and then at last I'll say ison Friday night at sunset, all
over the country, they're goingto be candlelight vigils uh to
uh recognize those who've lostand to recognize those who are
going to die because of thesecuts.
Um and it's also as an exampleto show uh interfaith solidarity
(32:52):
and to uh show that you know,even in this sort of uh rough uh
uh brutal political discourse wehave in the country these days,
uh uh compassion, empathy,generosity, uh these are uh
fundamental tenets of everyfaith tradition.
(33:14):
And we shouldn't be afraid toassert them in the public square
as well.
Um being empathetic andcompassionate is not a sign of
weakness.
It's a sign of a strong societythat cares about its weakest and
most vulnerable members.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
I think what you just said too, Sean, is going to
help people realize they mightbe thinking, well, I've got an
employer supplied health, I paya little bit, they pay a little
bit, everything's fine.
Well, those costs are gonna goup for the employer, so guess
what?
Your cost is gonna go up too.
And as you mentioned, withhospitals, especially rural
hospitals, if the prices don'tgo up, their existence might go
down.
And we we've seen that alreadyhappen where there's over 400
(33:53):
hospitals on a on a financialcliff.
That right when these cuts gointo action, that uh that fall
might be coming about.
And I saw a report too,researcher estimating that these
cuts are going to cause over51,000 preventable deaths every
year.
So you're talking about honoringthose who have lost their lives
(34:15):
because of poor medical care andcoverage?
That seems to be said of thosewho are prone to lose their
lives when all these cuts andshortages and eliminations are
taking place over these next uhseveral years.
So when people go to the to yourwebsite for seven days in June,
sevendaysinjune.org, whatinformation do you have there?
(34:38):
And how can you help how are youhelping people, for example,
make use of the social mediapage instead of posting what
they have for dinner last lastnight, post something useful and
educational like the informationthat we're talking about here?
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah, the uh thank you.
And the sevendaysindjune.orgsite is terrific because it has
a hundred and some events listedall over the country.
So you can see what's going onin your community uh participate
in.
And there are more being addedevery day.
Uh you know, a lot of people arejust in the last couple days
saying, hey, I can organize avigil in my community and go to
our website, they can registerit there, get the information on
(35:15):
there.
We have toolkits, we have allsorts of social uh media uh uh
memes and things that can beshared.
Uh we have you know videos, LynnManuel Miranda did a video uh
endorsing Seven Days and Jimmy.
Mark Anthony's done a video.
Uh Noah Wiley, you know, Dr.
Robbie from uh was one of ourvery first supporters uh of
(35:35):
this.
Uh so you know, this issomething health care transcends
party politics, right?
Healthcare is a discussion at uhat every dinner table in the
country and every household inthe country at one point or
another.
Uh and you know, and by the way,one thing I didn't mention is
what this is doing to uh healthinsurance premiums for people
who do have, you know, who haveuh through the American Care
(35:58):
Act.
Um there are lots of peoplewhose premiums are not just
doubling, in some cases aretripling.
Our friend here in uh in Milfordwas telling me the other day her
premiums going from$500 and somedollars to I think almost$1,300
a month.
Uh so this is a really, reallydramatic, dramatic shift that uh
(36:20):
they that that people don'tunderstand.
Uh and and and they will whenthey start to feel this pain in
their communities.
But we're trying to raiseawareness both so the
communities and people impactedcan prepare and hopefully to
build the political will toreverse these draconian uh uh
cuts.
Um and if we you know elect aCongress this fall that is uh
(36:43):
willing to do that, uh hopefullyit'll be uh top of uh their
priority list when they takeoffice in January.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Well that's the most important part to get ahead of
this before it happens.
It's easier to prevent thanafter it happens, trying to turn
back the clock.
And you can find out theinformation about getting active
in this cause,sevendaysinjune.org.
The website to be the voice ofthe people is about to bring
change and to prevent thenegative from happening and
(37:11):
impacting, and this impact wouldbe a long-lasting impact, as
you'll see when you look at someof the stats and other
information atsevendaysinjune.org.
John Strava, thank you forhelping us understand that we do
have the power to change things,to keep things fair, equitable,
and for we the people, not forwe the few.
(37:31):
That's the big difference aswell.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (37:35):
Uh as we head into the summer months, our outdoor
time, of course, increases.
Uh questions for you.
How are your sunscreen habits?
That's good.
Are you careful about stayinghydrated?
That's a good one.
One more for you.
What's your awareness aboutticks and Lyme disease?
Uh-huh.
If you don't think either are abig deal or you're not prone
(37:57):
because of where you are, well,hell yes again.
CDC reports that 476,000Americans are diagnosed with
Lyme disease.
That's the most recent yearstats, and that number, by the
way, keeps growing.
There are two ways to avoidadding to that number.
You can become a shut-in orlearn about the steps tick so
you can prevent becoming abanquet for ticks as well as
(38:18):
mosquitoes.
Here to talk about all this isthe founder of Sawyer, which has
been providing effectiveproducts to prevent tick and
mosquito contact since 1984.
Kurt Avery, how are you today,Kurt?
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Oh, we are great.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Very good to have you here to talk about this.
Sawyer.com to learn more aboutthe products as well that can
help you avoid what we aretalking about here because Kurt,
as I said, some people don'treally think of uh Lyme disease
or any tick or mosquito-borneillness as something serious or
they're not going to get it.
How wrong is that how wr wrongis that that belief?
SPEAKER_03 (38:53):
Well, it it's serious when it happens to you,
that's for sure.
So uh yeah, it's very serious.
And and they some of these arelifelong.
I mean, you know, maybe you getrid of some of the symptoms, but
they keep coming back.
So it it's very serious.
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
Yeah, it's almost uh a a tick version of
post-traumatic stress disorder,some of these, because uh with
ticks especially, they they canhave impact.
I mean, it depends on yourpersonal he your specific
health, well-being, and yourage, but they could have
long-term neurological effectsif it's not taken care of.
SPEAKER_03 (39:27):
That's correct.
Uh so uh the the trick is toavoid getting uh a tick on you.
That's that's that's the gamehere.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
Uh and this includes, by the way, some
people wind up in in emergencyrooms just because they take
bites, and that number also,according to the the CDC, is
growing in numbers anddirections that no one wants
them to see go.
So give us some ideas ofprotection as far as because you
want to prepare before you gooutside, but then as you're
(39:55):
outside when you come indoors,let's store from beg before you
go outside, what should whatshould your armory include as
far as protection and safety andtrying to avoid all the nasty
stuff that ticks and mosquitoescan do to you?
SPEAKER_03 (40:08):
Yeah.
Well, first I like to start withunderstanding the tick.
It's a very i interestingcreature.
Um and then if you understandthem, you'll be better able to
keep them away from you.
So first of all, they onlybreathe one every 15 minutes.
So they're very, very slowmoving creatures.
And their second characteristicis they always climb upwards.
So they're gonna be at the topof the blade of the grass or
(40:30):
they're gonna be in a bush.
So obviously your first thingis, you know, keep your lawns
mode and you know, if you're outhiking, try to stay on the path
and unless you know you have togo into the bushes and stuff
like that.
And and the other thing isthey're usually proliferated by
a lot of rodents.
So you know, it's the smalllittle creatures, the mice and
the chipmunks.
(40:50):
If you're in an area full ofthem because uh predators are
gone, then then they're morelikely to be uh elevated uh
number of pigs there.
So what you do is um the thething the secret that most
people don't know understand ispermethrin.
And permethrin is something youput on your clothes or on
fabrics.
It's not a not a topicalrepellent you're gonna put on
(41:13):
your skin.
Those work as well.
But these the fabric treatmentcan last six weeks or six
washings, so it's a long thing.
The shoes.
Um was a study said that if youhave a treat your shoes with it,
a fabric shoe, you're 74% chanceless likely of ever getting a
tick to land because they'regonna start there and work their
way up.
(41:33):
So you do your socks, you doyour pants, you do your shirts
in case you're up againstbrushes.
When a tick crosses one inch offabric that's treated with
permethrin, that's it.
It's going to die that day.
But because it only breathesonce every 15 minutes, it may
live for another three, fourhours, but it's it'll never
embed.
(41:54):
It's it's got it's breathesthrough its abdomen, it's got
it, and and just breathes veryslowly.
The other side of it is if ifyou do have a tick on you, don't
panic.
These things are very, very slowmoving.
It's twelve to twenty-four hoursbefore it even exchanges fluids
with you where you would getsick.
So you have time to do your tickcheck, you have time to go
(42:14):
underneath it with a littletweezer and pull it out very
slowly, don't pop it out.
Don't use your cigarettes orVaseline to try and make it exit
by itself because it's gotlittle barbs on its mouthpiece.
And if you try to make it exitby itself, it's gonna spit
everything it has into you toloosen up the barbs.
So just very slowly and wiggleit out and clean up the area
(42:36):
when you're done with rubbingalcohol or soap and water.
Like that.
But you go slowly so you canonly be good.
So if you understand, and thenif you do think you have them on
you, you can always throw yourclothes in a dryer, turn it on
real hot.
That will kill them if you ifyou think you can't see 'em, but
it's on your clothes.
Uh, spray your dog.
It it uh we pares the same thingyou put on your clothes is gonna
(42:56):
last six weeks on a dog.
Uh spray the hair.
Um, don't bring 'em home.
Uh if you're a hunter like thatkind of thing, you shoot uh the
trophy.
Lay it on the blanket in theback of your truck so all the
ticks fall off and as they crawlaround on the blanket, they're
all gonna come home dead.
So a lot of ways to avoid them.
Um and and if they are there,just don't panic.
(43:19):
They're very, very slow uhthings.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
But but hopefully they'll be But they're
determined because I last time Iremember having a tick, I'm six
foot six tall and it was behindmy ear.
That was a hell of a long climb,and if it if it was slow, I was
just totally oblivious to it.
SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Exactly, exactly.
And you can't tell when you youwill not it's not like a
mosquito, you're not gonna feelit when it slowly inches in
there.
That's why you got ten, twelvehours, and they are gonna go up.
So it would obviously preferback of the knee.
It wants soft, dark skin,something real easy for them to
barb into, but obviously thecrotch, the armpits, you know,
(43:56):
and but if it runs out of luck,it's gonna get all the way up to
the head.
So
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
And by doing what you what you've described with
your with whatever it is you'rewearing, you're discouraging
them from going up becauseyou're stopping them ahead of
the game.
SPEAKER_03 (44:10):
Yeah, they'll climb up for about four or five hours,
but they're dead.
They're gonna die.
They will not have the abilityto embed.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
So you you talk about how they're they're
prevalent in high grass orwooded areas.
I'm thinking about people who gofishing.
If you're near water a lot, isthat also a a a good place to be
aware of uh the ticks andwhether or not they're latching
on to you?
SPEAKER_03 (44:36):
Well, no, it has nothing to do with the water.
It's going to be with the bushesand uh the ground there.
Remember now, what whatproliferates them are the road,
it's the it's the mice, thechipmunks, the squirrels.
We talked about them being onthe deers, but they really start
with the small animals.
And if you're in an area whereyou don't have hawks or foxes or
(44:57):
whatever, they if there's nopredator for the small things
because it's kind of chopped upthe woods, well then there's
gonna be a whole lot more inthose areas if you don't have
the deep.
The only thing that that eatsare are the birds.
But they but they they love tolatch on to the small rodents
and then they take them back tothe nest and they live and then
(45:19):
they grow and grow.
So, you know, if you if you'rein an area with a lot of bushy
area and you know there's littlesquirrels and stuff running
around, that that's gonna be apretty prolific area.
SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
Good to know, good to know.
And you mentioned about watchingout for your dogs too, making,
you know, whatever you're doingto yourself do safely to your
dogs as well, because they'recarriers just as easily as you
could be, wrapping up a timewith Kurt Avery, who's the
founder of Sawyer.
They make products, which I wantto get into now with Kurt about
how you can arm yourself and doit and without heavy-duty
(45:50):
chemicals and sprays or anythingthat you might think is toxic.
Sawyer.com is where you can findall the products too here
listening to issues and ideas.
So, what are some of the thingsthat you make available to
people as far as for or not justfor avoiding ticks and tick
attacks, but you have a wholehost of products.
SPEAKER_03 (46:08):
Yeah, and our ours comes from natural.
So the permethrin, which wetalked about for the fabric and
and you know, anythingbackpacks, all that kind of
stuff, which is from mosquitoesand through ticks.
Comes from a chrysanthemumplant.
It's a derivative of thechrysanthemum plant.
And our topical is picarin.
We're not using the date, we'reusing picarin, which comes from
the black pepper plant.
So these are much more mild onyour skin.
(46:30):
Um so we got both the topicaland the fabric treatment as
well.
And we do a lot of waterfiltration too.
Around the world we we well,we're very big in domestic and
uh any hikers and campersprobably know about uh our water
filters, but overseas we we gointo villages and give people
clean water.
I think we've done forty millionpeople already giving them clean
(46:50):
water.
So and now you talk about thatfor master.
Now we have just published inthe New England Journal of
Medicine is that same chemicalthat we're telling talking
about, if we treat the mom'sbaby wrap where she's carrying
the baby for two years of life,we reduce malaria in the
children by sixty-seven percent.
So that's just recentlypublished, and that's where
(47:12):
we're heading now with that uhwhy why not?
Why you know malaria is brutal.
Seven hundred thousand babies ayear die of malaria, and we got
the solution.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
So when these when people buy your products,
they're in turn not justprotecting themselves, but
they're supporting the work thatyou're doing in in countries and
with causes that you justdescribed.
SPEAKER_03 (47:33):
Oh, we d we do.
Um we we have a nice business,but you know, uh we give over
ninety percent of our profit andmore you know, donations go
overseas for these thesesituations.
Um how do we not do it?
I mean we got the solutions forbad water and for um mosquito
bites which kill what a third ofthe people in the world die one
(47:55):
or the other, and we got theeasy solution.
So we we have a foundation, theSawyer Foundation, and every
dollar goes overseas and andreally frankly a huge I I'm I'm
old enough, I don't need anymore money.
So we we pretty much donateeverything overseas.
So if you buy the product, yes,most of that profit's gonna end
(48:15):
up overseas.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
And you find out more about the products and the
work that the company and Curtis leading at Sawyer.com.
It is that time of year, but youdoesn't don't have to suffer or
be afraid to go outside.
You can do it safely withoutharsh chemicals, no matter what
your sensitivity is, your ages,whatever the case may be, you
can actually go out and enjoyyourself this summer and not
have to worry about these littlenasty ticks, mosquitoes, and
(48:39):
anything else giving after you.
And you when you buy fromSawyer, you're supporting a huge
amount of great work thatthey're doing to save a lot of
lives in nations overseas.
Kurt, thanks so much for helpingus better understand, prepare,
and for the difference you'remaking through the work of your
of Sawyer, Sawyer.com again, thewebsite.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_03 (48:59):
Oh, we thank you.
Giving us a chance to get alittle education out there.
Most people don't know about theeasy solutions.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Earlier we talked about how ICE detention centers
operate.
Elect the leaders, stateofficials actually have to make
an appointment to visit thesefacilities, usually twenty-four
to seventy-two hours in advance,depending on who you are.
As we've seen, if even thegovernor of New Jersey shows up,
she's refused immediate access.
So what's the Department ofHomeland Security and ICE trying
(49:28):
to hide?
Or maybe the more accuratequestion is, what are the afraid
will be seen and discovered?
Family members and friends ofthose being detained say that
these ICE detention centers arerampant with abuse, violence by
ICE officers.
We've seen how these poorlytrained ICE agents violently
lash out in public their actionsof range and pepper spraying and
(49:50):
physically assaulting people toactually shooting down Americans
in the street.
Do you think their behavior isany better in the darkness that
they so eagerly want to protect?
Jesus tells us exactly who thesepeople are in John chapter three
verses nineteen and twenty, andthis is the condemnation that
the light has come into theworld, and men love darkness
(50:11):
rather than light because theirdeeds were either, for everyone
practicing evil hates the lightand does not come to the light
lest his deeds should beexposed.
I've heard people, maybe youtoo, ranging from those in the
White House to social mediaclaim that Ice is doing God's
work.
(50:34):
If we say that we havefellowship with him and walk in
darkness we lie and do notpractice the truth.
In fact, it's Proverbs chapterfour verse nineteen, which gives
us the truth.
The way of the wicked is likedarkness.
They do not know what makes themstumble.
For all who are participating inand supporting what's being
perpetrated by Ice at detentioncenters, Isaiah chapter five,
(50:57):
verse twenty has a warning.
Woe to those who call evil goodand good evil, who put darkness
for light and light fordarkness, who put bitter for
sweet and sweet for bitter.
As we've also seen, a growingnumber of people are not
watching all this unfold only tosit alone feeling sorry for the
victims of this violenttreatment.
They're bringing forward a lightto reveal what the federal
(51:20):
government wants to keep hidingin the darkness.
Their desire will absolutelyfail, by the way, as mandated by
what we read in Ephesianschapter five, verse eleven, and
have no fellowship with theunfruitful works of darkness,
but rather expose them.
We who are God's children andchosen are the light because he
has filled us with his light.
(51:41):
This is confirmed by firstThessalonians chapter five verse
five.
You're all sons of light andsons of the day, we are not of
the night nor of darkness.
And the light of God just isn'ta visual.
Its source is absolutelyspiritual.
Paul teaches us this in SecondCorinthians chapter four, verse
six, for it is the God whocommanded light to shine out of
(52:03):
darkness who has shown in ourhearts to give the light of the
knowledge of the glory of God inthe face of Jesus Christ.
Staying in Second Corinthians,we are not to consort with those
who do wrong.
Arguing about their actions,then going to Denua with them,
excuses and even permits theirdarkness to continue.
Let's go to Second Corinthianschapter six fourteen, get an
(52:26):
explanation about this.
Do not be unequally yokedtogether with unbelievers, for
what fellowship hasrighteousness for lawlessness,
and what communion has lightwith darkness.
It's our duty as Christians toconfront the darkness with God's
light.
It's also a duty which Jesus inLuke chapter six verses forty
one and forty two teaches how weneed to be ready.
(52:47):
And why do you look at the speckin your brother's eye and do not
perceive the plank in your owneye?
Or how can you say to yourbrother, Brother, let me remove
the speck that is in your eyewhen you yourself do not see the
plank that is in your own eye.
Hypocrite, first remove theplank from your own eye, and
then you will see clearly toremove the speck that is in your
(53:09):
brother's eye.
In Second Timothy chapter four,verses two through four, we're
made to understand what we're upagainst as well.
Preach the word, be ready inseason and out of season,
convince, rebuke, exhort withall long suffering and teaching,
for the time will come when theywill not endure sound doctrine,
but according to their owndesires, because they have
(53:30):
itching ears, they will heap upfor themselves teachers, and
they will turn their ears awayfrom the truth, and be turned
aside to fables.
It's God's word that serves asour strength and armor in these
times too.
Titus chapter one verse ninereminds us this way, holding
fast the faithful word, as hehas been taught that he may be
able by sound doctrine both toexhort and convict those who
(53:53):
contradict.
Now, since the light and thedarkness cannot in any way
coexist, our works need to comewith the light, sourced by God's
light.
God's own words call on us tothe duty I've been talking about
(54:15):
today.
Let's turn to Leviticus chapterfive, verse one.
If a person sins in hearing theutterance of an oath and is a
witness, whether he has seen orknown of the matter, or if he
does not tell it, he bearsguilt.
As you hopefully know in yourheart and soul, our duty is not
to seek vengeance in times likethis.
God will handle that at the timeand in the way of his choosing.
(54:37):
Our direction is given to us inRomans chapter twelve, verse
twenty-one.
Do not be overcome by evil, butovercome evil with good.
So when we step forward, we stepaccording to God's will, not
ours.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite, issues and
ideasradio.com.
We have more information aboutthe guests who joined us here on
(54:58):
the show today.
Of course, all the features onthe homepage, all through the
website.
And if you've been listening viayour favorite podcast platform,
make sure you subscribe andfollow.
Always grateful and thankful asyou come along for the ride with
us each and every time.
Look forward to being with youright here this time next week
for our next edition of Issuesand Ideas.
Oh, welcome to Excuse and Ideas.
I'm Christopello.
Last week we witnessed in NewJersey another example of how
ICE conducts their operations.
They seem to do it in a hiddenway, while resisting even trying
to intimidate anyone, includingelected leaders, who want access
to what ICE agents are doing andhow they're treating the people
that they're responsible for.
(00:20):
Latest incident has beenunfolding in Newark, New Jersey
at Delaney Hall, which, by theway, is a privately owned
detention facility that ICE isoperating from.
All that's unfolded this pastMonday, the outrage has
continued all through this pastweek.
All this also brings with it therealization that if Ice is
operating like this at this onelocation, is it logical to
(00:43):
believe that they're doing so atall locations?
My first guest today has been onthe ground at Delaney Hall and
is here to give a fullunderstanding of all of this.
She's a coordinator with PaxChristie, New Jersey, as well as
a lead organizer of the protestat Delaney Hall, Kathy O'Leary.
Thanks for being here today,Kathy.
SPEAKER_04 (01:01):
Sure.
I just want to correctsomething.
I am not a lead organizer of theprotests.
I am a lead uh uh organizer ofEyes on Ice.
Eyes on Ice has been uh takingcare of the uh and supporting
support for the visitors whocome to visit their loved ones
uh inside Delaney Hall and be insolidarity with them and their
(01:23):
uh and the people inside uh forover a year now.
Uh we've been here seven days aweek.
We are here every time there arevisiting hours uh for the
entirety of visiting hours tohelp people get in to see their
loved ones because we understandthat getting people in to see
their loved ones is the mostpowerful form of resistance that
(01:44):
we can muster uh because thatgives them the strength and the
courage to continue fightingtheir cases or uh to decide that
uh as a family that it might bebetter if uh if they return to
uh the the person with detentionreturns to their growth country.
(02:04):
So uh we've been doing that forover a year.
What happened?
Uh there's been organizinginside of Delaney Hall since uh
that we were aware of since theend of January.
Uh at that point we were madeaware of a letter that 25 people
inside of Delaney Hall signed umand were able to get out of the
(02:27):
facility.
Um and uh we published thatletter.
Um and uh then we became awareabout a month ago of a second
letter that was signed by almost300 people inside the facility.
So the first letter was signeduh simply by people uh in a
single unit, uh which isn't umyou know, which which which you
(02:52):
can kinda imagine how uh thatwould be simpler to organize.
Um but the when you get to a toa two hundred and something plus
uh almost three hundred personletter, um that means they were
organized across units and notjust across the units of the
men, but also uh women, um uhmany, many almost all the entire
unit of the women had signed theletter as well.
(03:15):
So um that was um anextraordinary um piece of
organizing in itself.
And then uh last Friday uh therewas a rally uh organized by a
family member and um and uhsupported by other families um
(03:35):
uh outside Delaney Hall, atwhich point men from inside of
Delaney Hall pulled out andannounced that they were on a
labor and hunger strike.
It is not a hung just a hungerstrike, it is also a labor
strike.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Captain Can I stop you there for a second?
Because a lot of people don'tunderstand this.
When uh you say labor strike,it's a more accurate term, it's
slave labor because aren't theygetting paid a grand total of a
dollar a day and the price andthe and the and ICE excuses as
paying.
Yeah, but they use the money tobuy stuff at the commissary,
completely ignoring the factthat the commissary prices are
(04:12):
astronomically outrageous that aday's work at a dollar a a day,
you're going to get jacked ifthat.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
It functions the same way every other prison
does, where people are forced towork for uh for meager wages and
and then forced to buynecessities at the commissary.
This is a tax on the families.
A tax on the families in ICEdetention, it's a tax on the
families in our prisons andjails.
This is that this is this isnothing new.
Um but and that the prisons uhrequire their labor to run.
(04:46):
So that's as I was saying, thelabor strike is is is more
effective than the hunger strikein many ways.
Well the hunger strike gets theheadlines, the labor strike is
what cripples the facility.
So and that's what's beenhappening.
The when the uh legislators camein the other day, um usually
what would happen is that the uhthe the people inside who were
(05:08):
detained inside would be wokenup at the wee hours in the
morning and forced to clean uhthe the units uh without any uh
you know, out uh without anygloves, any protective uh uh
gear at all, and then withoutwithout sufficient supplies
either.
Um uh but uh when the um uhlegislators came in uh this
(05:32):
week, the um the administrationof the jail was forced to clean
the toilets.
So that's uh something that I'mI'm uh a little bit of joy that
I'm hanging on hanging on toright now.
Um so um yeah.
So they're but unfortunatelythose the the fact that the
prison is not running properlyalso is some is is borne
(05:56):
primarily on the people inside.
So they're not getting umthey're not getting uh their
their their their bathrooms areare f filthier than usual,
right?
Because they're not cleaningthem and they're they have no
clean sheets.
Uh and I I heard uh one onefamily member said they have no
sheets at all.
Um uh yeah, so they're and theythey're so they're dealing with
(06:19):
uh and they're they're eatingoff of paper plates and that
kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
So um, and that's and that's it and that's if they
can eat the food.
I've heard reports saying thefood is maggot-filled, uh the
water is is as close to sewagewater as you can get out of a
tap.
Sometimes some people have saidit's just sea water with how
salty it is.
These these are in no way,shape, or form humane
conditions.
(06:43):
And when you look at statisticsand these are ice statistics, by
the way.
Right.
Five percent of those incustody, five percent have a
criminal record, seventy-threepercent, no arrests.
SPEAKER_04 (06:53):
We don't we don't use the we don't use those we
don't use those um statistics umbecause it doesn't matter.
Uh it doesn't matter.
If these are our neighbors, itdoesn't matter.
Um because um it it doesn'tmatter what you did.
It doesn't matter what the worstthing you did in your life was,
you are a human being and you'reentitled to human rights.
SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
And you're on American soil, and I know that's
there are people who aren'tgonna like what I'm about to
say, but the U.S.
Constitution affords everyperson on American soil due
process rights and rights toliberty and freedom and humane
treatment.
That's that's a given.
There there's no debate aboutthat.
Even Justice Justice AntoninScalia agreed with that.
SPEAKER_04 (07:36):
Uh yeah, but that's never been our practice.
And it hasn't been our practiceum since uh since I since ICE
was founded, uh certainly.
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Oh no.
No, absolutely not.
I mean uh and and when they tryto defend themselves, they
defend themselves by lying aboutthe what's uh that the uh what
what are some of the things Iheard that there's no hunger
strike in there.
Uh they can come uh electedofficials come in any time they
want.
SPEAKER_04 (07:59):
Had a federal judge come to the determination
recently, Michael, we're allwe're but we're all focusing on
the wrong things right now.
We are focusing on what'shappening outside, we're
focusing on the politicians,we're not focusing on the people
inside.
The demands of the people insideare very clear.
And even before they publishedthe demands, they were telling
legislators who were coming tovisit that we don't want you to
(08:22):
focus on conditions.
We don't want to be comfy iswhat they said.
That we say they said we do notwant to be comfy, we want to be
free, we want to get out.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
So uh but then the curse becomes the curse becomes
you need the politicians, youneed point A to get to point B.
So how do you c how do you closethat gap now?
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
Well, uh, you know, it would be helpful if um if
people started humanizing thepeople inside of detention as
opposed to focusing on what thepoliticians are doing or what
protesters outside the facilityare doing.
There are now three letterspublished.
How about people go read thoseletters, find out what people
said, start sharing thoseletters, talking about the
(09:02):
people inside as people, not asstatistics and and demanding and
demanding that accountabilitynot just from Republicans but
from Democrats too, who havevoted over and over and over
again for more and more moneyfor ICE.
This facility and this systemthat as it exists today was
built under Bill Clinton.
(09:23):
Belaney Hall last was last uh umuh ran as a as an ICE detention
center under Bush.
It ran as an ICE detentioncenter under Obama and it was on
President Biden's list to reopenas a detention center.
Had Harris run re-election,Belaney Hall would be open.
And we wouldn't be talking abouthow horrible the conditions are
(09:45):
inside because because uh thereseems to be an idea that when
Democrats run ice jails, they'rebetter.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
And uh as I mentioned back in the
introduction, this has become anindustry.
GEO Group, for example, ownsDelaney Hall, a billion dollar
contract, and they got that bydoing winning political favors
and making donations to theright people.
SPEAKER_04 (10:09):
So for the person they've always done that.
They have always done that, andthey make donations to to
Democrats as well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Absolutely.
But for the person listeningright now, Kathy, what what do
you what can what are you doingto help people realize this is a
an issue of humanity, notpolitics.
SPEAKER_04 (10:29):
We are talking about the people inside.
We're talking about the pregnantwomen who are inside who are
miscarrying.
We're talking about the the howthe people inside yesterday, we
are every well every again,everyone is focused on how the
people outside are being teargassed and beaten, right?
And and stepersprayed andbeaten.
Yesterday there was a there waspeaceful resistance inside.
(10:53):
Uh they were try they weretrying to remove the man who was
acting as a translator for theunit.
He was bilingual, uh, so he wastranslating from English to
Spanish and Spanish to Englishfor the rest of the men in the
unit they were trying to removehim to break the strike.
And when everyone gatheredaround him to keep them from
(11:15):
pulling him out of the unit,they w with their hands raised
and their backs to the guardssurrounding this man to protect
him, they started gettingbeaten.
And then they threw uh eitherpepper spray, what the what
actually what the men describedas tear gas, uh in the hallways.
(11:37):
Started beating people withbatons, and this is forty
guards, started with fortyguards and then ice came in
afterwards.
This is the end, these are thisis based on accounts that we got
directly from people inside andfrom their family members.
Uh started beating them, forcedthem into their rooms, pepper
spray spray pepper spray in theroom, then lock them in and shut
(11:59):
off the ventilation.
That's what happened to themyesterday.
Now they're on lockdown, theyhave no tablets.
If they're on lockdown, lockedin the rooms, they have no
access to phones.
They've taken away themicrowave, so whatever whatever
commissary they had saved up,they can no longer use.
They have if you can't get to atablet, anybody who knows
anything about a prison knowsthat you can't do anything
(12:20):
without a tablet because youcan't get a sick call.
You can't cause that becausesick calls go through the
tablets.
Access to commissary goesthrough the tablets.
Access to your moving movingmoney from your commissary fund
to your phone fund so you cancontinue to have m continue to
have money to call your lovedones, it goes through the
tablets.
So uh so they've taken thetablets away, they've taken the
(12:42):
phones away by putting them onlockdown, and they've taken away
the microwaves.
So uh and they can't get themicrowave anyhow because they're
on lockdown.
So they are and they've beenretaliating against all these
folks inside.
They have continued to findcreative ways to push back
against uh their uh theirtreatment and to get their cries
(13:02):
heard.
They w the other day whenlegislators were inside, they
were out in the rec yard andthey were marching in unison
shouting libertad, libertad,which means freedom, freedom,
and they were threatened withsome kind of chemical agent.
They were the uh guards weretrying to go with them into a
fight and they didn't take thebait.
(13:25):
These they these these this isextraordinary.
This is extraordinary organizingthat's going on inside.
This is the story.
This is what we should betalking about.
We should be talking about howhow multiple people inside are
married to US citizens, howmultiple people inside are um
(13:45):
are are being threatened with uhdeportation to the DRC.
There's there's uh people insidewith with cancer, there's people
inside with HIV, there's peopleinside who have been held in
medical isolation for over ahundred days.
So this is what we should betalking about, and we should be
(14:06):
saying that all of these peopleneed their freedom.
SPEAKER_00 (14:11):
And that's exactly what you're doing.
For the person listening rightnow, let's wrap the segment up
with this with label for aperson listening right now who
wants to do more than postcomments on social media.
What can they do to be activelyhelping these people?
SPEAKER_04 (14:25):
They can donate to the commissary funds, to the
legal funds, to the uh anddirectly to the families through
the link tree.
They can find all of these linkson the uh Pox Christie N J
Instagram account, uh at P-A-X,C H R I S T I N J at Instagra on
(14:51):
Instagram, um and and donate.
And please donate to theGoFundMe's.
That goes directly to thefamilies.
The families are hurting.
There's a bread the breadthere's a breadwinner inside
general almost always, and umthey still have to feed their
families and pay their rent, andnow they have to pay for
thousands and thousands of ofdollars in legal fees, and and
(15:14):
then when they do finally getthe get a bond, they have to pay
tens of possibly tens ofthousands of dollars to get
their loved one out, to pay theransom to get their loved one
out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
We're gonna put the link of to the Instagram account
over on a homepage for youlistening so you can have easy
access to it.
You don't have to be fumblingfor a peop uh pen and piece of
paper right now.
And Kathy, I want to thank youand eyes on ice and everything
you're doing because as you justdid here, you you helped us
place the focus where it needsto be, to the point where I want
to correct myself on something Isaid not too long ago.
(15:47):
I was pushing back againstpeople who were comparing the
detention centers toconcentration camps, but from
what you have let us understand,they are indeed 21st century
concentration camps.
It was wrong.
It was wrong then, it's equallywrong now, and it's gonna be the
truth and the people that aregonna make this better for these
people who are wronglyimprisoned.
(16:09):
So thank you, Kathy.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Among all the events unfolding in front of us, the
need to pay attention to one Ithink is obvious, while another,
I believe, is insightful.
The obvious is the foreignpolicy of the Trump
administration, specifically howDonald Trump is conducting the
war in Iran.
The insightful is what Popolillohas been saying and explaining
in the early days of his papacy.
(16:33):
Both of these, I think, areeducational, but only if you
have a factual understandingabout them.
And that's why we turn to mynext guest serving the U.S.
House of Representatives,representing Florida's 19th
District.
That was from 2017-2021.
Before that, he served as theU.S.
Ambassador to the Holy See forPresident George W.
Bush's administration.
(16:54):
That was 2005-2008.
He's also author of the book,The Global Vatican.
Ambassador Francis Rooney, howare you today, Ambassador?
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
I appreciate you taking the time on this.
Uh certainly with everythingmoving as fast as it does, it
can be confusing, especially iflet's start with the policy with
the war in Iran, because itseems like there's uh the hint
of a settlement, at least for aceasefire.
I mean, this is going to be amultiple part uh resolution of
all this, but uh then it'salmost as if Donald Trump thinks
(17:27):
of whatever he thinks of thatday, that's the new reason for
the war, and that means all thenegotiations have to start over
again.
Help us make sense of what we'reseeing unfolding with this
unfortunately fluid, I guess Ishould say, activity with policy
regarding the war in Iran.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Well, I don't think very much of uh what's happened
with Iran and the United Statesmakes any sense at all.
I don't know why he picked thatfight.
They didn't go into it uh havingthought out all the options.
They prevaricated about thedifferent reasons for their
actions, and now they seem tohave settled on the nuclear
thing, but uh they'll probablyprevaricate on that again.
SPEAKER_00 (18:06):
Yeah, I mean just mentioned here of Just the other
day he all of a sudden he popsin with the Abraham Accords.
SPEAKER_02 (18:12):
Yeah.
He it's distractive.
And I think he'll do anythingjust to keep the people
distracted on how ignorant thepolicy was in the first place.
And he's gonna wind up making adeal that's probably no better
than what Obama got.
It's that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
Well, I I heard someone talk about this too.
It seems like whenever they'regetting close, the negotiators,
the tight Trump circle turn toTrump and say, you know, it's
not gonna be as good as whatObama got, and then that's when
that's what compels Trump totrash everything and make them
start all over again.
SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
Right.
Because Trump compareseverything to what Obama got.
Everything in the world is areferendum on Trump.
How often you praise him, howoften you butter him up, uh uh
how he can say he succeededwhere no other president has
succeeded, all these things arekind of excessive.
Excessive of his personality.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
Not to be conspiratorial, but how much of
Trump's efforts are meant to beserving Israel's priorities?
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
Oh, I think a lot of them.
I think Netanyahu kind of goadedhim into taking this step.
And uh I don't think Trump I'msorry I say, I don't think
Trump's guys thought it throughwhat they really could
accomplish with Iran and howwily the Iranians are, and how
it was really Netanyahu'sproblem, not ours.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
And as as history shows, too, it's it's totally
realistic to believe that Iranwould agree to would not agree
to anything tougher than thetwin twenty fifteen nuclear
deal, and they're willing tosacrifice the majority of their
population, certainly if itmeans harming in any way, shape,
or form America as well asIsrael.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
Yeah, you know, uh our our United States and many
Western countries have realtrouble appreciating the depth
of the difference betweencountries that value life and
countries that don't.
The countries that don't valuelife have some significant
weaponry to deploy that we cantotally not can't really totally
comprehend.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
And this isn't to be in any favor, any way, shape, or
form of Iran having nuclearnuclear weapons, but if you look
at the 2015 campaign, at leastuh the the 2015 nuclear
agreement with the U.S.
and multiple other nations,there at least was supervision
and they had a leash on themthat, okay, fine, you you
(20:30):
obviously can use nuclear power.
Any nation would want that.
And the weaponization of it hadat least uh a moderate leak on
it, I guess would be theaccurate thing to say.
And again, this just shows thethe ignorance of what's
happening in the current stateof affair affairs with the Oval
Office and the Trumpadministration.
They had a useful deal insteadof trying to add to it, they
(20:53):
scrapped it and went to startover again.
Here we are.
SPEAKER_02 (20:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I wasn't totally in favor
of the terms that Obama agreedto, and I certainly wasn't in
favor of giving them all thatmoney back.
But Trump's about to talk aboutdoing the same thing, paying
them off again.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
I I heard a figure if if if the if it came to pass,
it could be a potential threehundred billion dollar windfall
for Iran.
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Yeah, I just zero makes zero sense.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Starting with Ambassador Francis Rooney, who
served as U.S.
Ambassador to the Holy See forthe uh President George W.
Bush administration, as well asa member of the House of
Representatives representingFlorida's 19th District.
You're listening to issues andideas.
Let us move on to Pope Leobecause I have been ever since
the Boston Globe reporters cameout with the no pun intended,
(21:39):
the Book of Revelations aboutwhat had been going on with the
Catholic Church.
And I've been hard on thechurch, or maybe factually
honest with call it whatever youwant to.
I'm looking at what Pope Leo isdoing.
I think he could restore a lotof what his predecessors allowed
to be lost with the CatholicChurch.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
I don't think there's any doubt about it.
I think you're absolutely right.
He uh you can see how calm andjudicious he is versus say Pope
Francis being kind of a uhyelling at people all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
And I think he understands the message of the
gospel like Pope Benedict did,but with a little more powerful
delivery than that.
And uh he's onto something withhis AI.
I mean the parallels betweenright now with AI and
concentration of wealth andinequality are just like 1890
when when Leo the Thirteenthwrote Verum Novara.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
That's one thing that really stood out too when
Pope Leo talked about this andso much more in his Magnificent
Humanitis, which is basicallythe hi, here I am, here's what
I'm all about, uh papal andencyclical.
He's pretty hip to the modernworld.
He's not, you know, we havepeople in Congress, no offense,
you being a former member, butthey're still trying to figure
out flip phones as far astechnology is concerned.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Right.
Yeah, Pope Leo has a keenunderstanding, I think, of the
dangers of AI, and he's willingto have the Vatican weigh in on
the damage it could do tohumanity.
And that's that's really kind ofhis job, as he explained to
Trump.
Uh my job is to preach themessage of the gospel, and your
job is to be president.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
And uh usually never the Twain she'll meet,
unfortunately, but that'sanother debate for another time,
too.
In your time as ambassador, didyou be uh become uh close to or
know of the man who will becomePope Leo?
And does what you see now comeas any surprise to you of the
person you knew then?
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
No surprise at all.
My family's known Pope Leo forabout 40 years.
And um he he was we've been veryinvolved with the Augustinians
because our children went toAugustinian middle, middle, and
high schools.
And uh I was on the board of it,and Pope Leo used to come down
to our board meetings everycouple of months.
And then when uh we lived inRome 2005 through 2008, we saw
(23:52):
him all the time.
We always invited him to everyevent we had at the house that
involved Americans.
And uh he's uh he's gonna be agreat Pope.
I think he could be a great Popefor two different reasons two
reasons, among others.
One, he ran that order and hashad to deal with people problems
and money problems.
And our popes are not very goodat those things.
We saw the abuse scandals, thehard difficult to deal with
(24:13):
them.
We saw Pope Francis uh bedefrauded out of three hundred
million dollars or so in London.
Uh I don't think you'll see thatstuff with Pope Leo.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
In your book, you wrote about uh in the Global
Vatican, you wrote about softpower and soft diplomacy.
Is that Pope Leo right now?
Or it seems like he went maybe Imean not as loud and bold as
Pope Francis and many of hispredecessors, but if you look
through the timeline of Popes,you go back to Pope Pius XI and
(24:43):
XII, they were certainly absentwhere they needed to be more
present.
Is Pope Leo the the neededcentrist that the Vatican needs?
SPEAKER_02 (24:53):
Well, I think after Pope Francis and Pope Benedict
for different reasons, he is.
I mean Pope Benedict was ascholar, it was very quiet.
Pope Francis was a, you know, aa minister to the poor and very
loud.
I think with Pope Leo, you'llget a lot of Pope Francis'
message, but you'll get itexpressed in a more uh judicious
and rational manner.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
I think much like political parties have to
realize and usually fail to do,I think the Pope Pope Leo
realizes there's a generationalchange that's needed in the
church.
Um certainly with the theabsence of a s sufficient number
of priests, people come peoplecoming into the priesthood, I
think he sounds more of a magnetthan a repellent that other
(25:36):
popes have been more theopposite.
SPEAKER_02 (25:39):
In indisputably.
In fact, Fox has reported thatchurch attendance uh and
interest in Catholicism amongyoung people is up twelve,
thirteen percent.
And I think that's been r widelycorroborated by other media.
So that's a good thing.
And I think Pope Leo has a lotof responsibility for enthusing
these people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
And he's only getting warmed up too, which is
going to be the fun thing towatch and the interesting as
well, like I said back in theintroduction, when you have the
facts and the reality, what yousee could be a lot more
insightful than just color andnoise.
And Ambassador Rooney has helpedus, I think, better understand
this.
Be sure to get his book too whenit comes to Pop Leo because he
gives you a look inside of uhthe Vatican.
(26:20):
This is 2013, but traditionholds true, and anything pushing
against negative or not fullyaffected tradition is valuable,
and I think Pop Leo is going tobe doing some of that as well.
The book is the Global Vatican,Amazon, Barnesdale, whatever
your favorite means is, he is aformer U.S.
ambassador to the Holy See forPresident George W.
Bush administration, as well asforeign members of the U.S.
(26:42):
House representing Florida's19th Ambassador, Francis Rooney.
Thank you so much for yourinsights and for helping us
better appreciate and understandsome very important matters in
our in our country and world.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
If you're listening to us via your favorite podcast
platform, don't forget to followand subscribe.
Access to healthcare programslike Medicare, Medicaid, your
own health insurance have alwaysbeen challenging.
That's a good word.
Well, considering the changesthat we're planning to start
later on this year, thosechallenges wind up being a fond
memory when compared to whatlies ahead.
(27:16):
The budget bill, which I refuse,by the way, to refer to that
juvenile term that's been taggedwith the past earlier this year,
is going to result in massivecuts, higher cost to health care
programs that people in everysingle community of America rely
on.
It's time for the voice in thewills of we the people.
Step up and step forward.
(27:40):
Here to discuss all this, is oneof the leaders of Seven Days in
June.
He's also founder of the TarotProject, former mayor of
Milford, Pennsylvania.
Sean Strove, how are you today,Sean?
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
Hey, I'm fine.
Thank you very much for havingme on the program.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Well, good to have you here.
Talk about this and get peopleactive and aware.
SevendaysInjune.org.
Learn more about what we aretalking about with Sean here.
Just to remind us, Sean, howlooming of a threat is the cut
or the cuts to health care atthis point in time that we we
(28:16):
understand it's uh I know it's atrillion dollars total, but they
they've been a little cutesywith this.
They don't start until after themidterms, as if that's gonna
make a difference.
And it starts a little and thenuh the leak becomes a a breaking
dam sooner versus later.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
You know, a trillion dollars is so abstract.
Who has a grip on what atrillion dollars means, right?
Um the bill that was passed lastyear, HR1 is its technical name,
so we can go just with thatrather than the uh, as you say,
the juvenile label that wasapplied to it.
Uh the tax cuts for people whoare very affluent in
(28:54):
corporations went into effectimmediately.
But the pain, uh health carebudget cuts to help pay for some
of those tax cuts, theimplementation of that was
delayed until most of it isafter the midterm elections this
November, and it was I thinkdelayed for obvious reasons.
(29:14):
Uh the extent of these cuts,there's never been a budget cut
like this in in history uh ever.
Um you know, I we were on theair, we're talking a little bit
about Milford, Pennsylvania, uh,where uh I live.
And uh right in the northwestcorner of New Jersey over
Suffolk County and across theriver, uh, and that's where
(29:34):
Milford is.
Pike County is a rural countywith about 60,000 people.
And between 2027 and 2034, we'relosing almost a quarter of a
billion dollars, 237 milliondollars, in just the Medicaid
and SNAP cuts.
Uh that is dramatic in a littleteeny tiny county like this.
(29:57):
About 19% of our residents inPike County are on Medicaid.
Uh, one out of 10 or 1 out of 9of them are going to lose their
Medicaid coverage.
36% of the children in ourcounty are on Medicaid.
But 60% of the households thatget STAP benefits are going to
lose some or all of thosebenefits.
(30:19):
These are dramatic, dramaticcuts, and they don't affect just
people who uh rely on Medicaidor SAP programs.
Uh they affect everybody.
Because, first of all, uh losingthose benefits puts a burden on
those communities, right?
Are they going to be filled bythe food pantries or by local or
(30:39):
state government?
You know, there's going to betremendous pressure there.
But also, this bill is going toresult in the loss of over a
million jobs across the country,going to force a closure or a
severe cutback in something likeservices, like three to six
hundred hospitals, especially inrural and sparsely populated
areas, which means people aregoing to have to drive farther
(31:01):
for health care.
Uh, there are a whole series ofthings that are going to affect
the economic impacts aretremendous uh as well.
So this is something that isconcerning uh a wide range of
people.
Um most uh we found that mostlocal officials don't understand
that this is coming down thepike and have only be just begun
(31:24):
to start to think aboutcontingencies.
How do they fill the gaps?
How do they deal with theconsequences?
Um that's what Seven Days inJune, which starts on Monday, is
about uh to raise awareness,doing a series of events across
the country.
They're town halls, theirrallies, their marches, their
candidate forums, uh to generatemedia coverage of what the
(31:47):
effects are locally, not thisabstract, you know, trillion
dollars or$1.1 trillion, somesay, uh nationally, but what it
means in individual communities.
Um then we're also a big part ofit is to hold candidates
accountable.
We want health care elevated outof partisan politics.
(32:08):
We want uh it elevated as agoverning priority.
This is part of what we electpeople to do to help protect uh
the health of people in thecountry.
And you know, we can build ahealthier nation.
This is not like, oh, we want,you know, world peace or
something.
This is something within ourgrasp.
We know how to do this.
Uh we just need the politicalwill to make it happen.
(32:30):
Uh and then at last I'll say ison Friday night at sunset, all
over the country, they're goingto be candlelight vigils uh to
uh recognize those who've lostand to recognize those who are
going to die because of thesecuts.
Um and it's also as an exampleto show uh interfaith solidarity
(32:52):
and to uh show that you know,even in this sort of uh rough uh
uh brutal political discourse wehave in the country these days,
uh uh compassion, empathy,generosity, uh these are uh
fundamental tenets of everyfaith tradition.
(33:14):
And we shouldn't be afraid toassert them in the public square
as well.
Um being empathetic andcompassionate is not a sign of
weakness.
It's a sign of a strong societythat cares about its weakest and
most vulnerable members.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
I think what you just said too, Sean, is going to
help people realize they mightbe thinking, well, I've got an
employer supplied health, I paya little bit, they pay a little
bit, everything's fine.
Well, those costs are gonna goup for the employer, so guess
what?
Your cost is gonna go up too.
And as you mentioned, withhospitals, especially rural
hospitals, if the prices don'tgo up, their existence might go
down.
And we we've seen that alreadyhappen where there's over 400
(33:53):
hospitals on a on a financialcliff.
That right when these cuts gointo action, that uh that fall
might be coming about.
And I saw a report too,researcher estimating that these
cuts are going to cause over51,000 preventable deaths every
year.
So you're talking about honoringthose who have lost their lives
(34:15):
because of poor medical care andcoverage?
That seems to be said of thosewho are prone to lose their
lives when all these cuts andshortages and eliminations are
taking place over these next uhseveral years.
So when people go to the to yourwebsite for seven days in June,
sevendaysinjune.org, whatinformation do you have there?
(34:38):
And how can you help how are youhelping people, for example,
make use of the social mediapage instead of posting what
they have for dinner last lastnight, post something useful and
educational like the informationthat we're talking about here?
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah, the uh thank you.
And the sevendaysindjune.orgsite is terrific because it has
a hundred and some events listedall over the country.
So you can see what's going onin your community uh participate
in.
And there are more being addedevery day.
Uh you know, a lot of people arejust in the last couple days
saying, hey, I can organize avigil in my community and go to
our website, they can registerit there, get the information on
(35:15):
there.
We have toolkits, we have allsorts of social uh media uh uh
memes and things that can beshared.
Uh we have you know videos, LynnManuel Miranda did a video uh
endorsing Seven Days and Jimmy.
Mark Anthony's done a video.
Uh Noah Wiley, you know, Dr.
Robbie from uh was one of ourvery first supporters uh of
(35:35):
this.
Uh so you know, this issomething health care transcends
party politics, right?
Healthcare is a discussion at uhat every dinner table in the
country and every household inthe country at one point or
another.
Uh and you know, and by the way,one thing I didn't mention is
what this is doing to uh healthinsurance premiums for people
who do have, you know, who haveuh through the American Care
(35:58):
Act.
Um there are lots of peoplewhose premiums are not just
doubling, in some cases aretripling.
Our friend here in uh in Milfordwas telling me the other day her
premiums going from$500 and somedollars to I think almost$1,300
a month.
Uh so this is a really, reallydramatic, dramatic shift that uh
(36:20):
they that that people don'tunderstand.
Uh and and and they will whenthey start to feel this pain in
their communities.
But we're trying to raiseawareness both so the
communities and people impactedcan prepare and hopefully to
build the political will toreverse these draconian uh uh
cuts.
Um and if we you know elect aCongress this fall that is uh
(36:43):
willing to do that, uh hopefullyit'll be uh top of uh their
priority list when they takeoffice in January.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Well that's the most important part to get ahead of
this before it happens.
It's easier to prevent thanafter it happens, trying to turn
back the clock.
And you can find out theinformation about getting active
in this cause,sevendaysinjune.org.
The website to be the voice ofthe people is about to bring
change and to prevent thenegative from happening and
(37:11):
impacting, and this impact wouldbe a long-lasting impact, as
you'll see when you look at someof the stats and other
information atsevendaysinjune.org.
John Strava, thank you forhelping us understand that we do
have the power to change things,to keep things fair, equitable,
and for we the people, not forwe the few.
(37:31):
That's the big difference aswell.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (37:35):
Uh as we head into the summer months, our outdoor
time, of course, increases.
Uh questions for you.
How are your sunscreen habits?
That's good.
Are you careful about stayinghydrated?
That's a good one.
One more for you.
What's your awareness aboutticks and Lyme disease?
Uh-huh.
If you don't think either are abig deal or you're not prone
(37:57):
because of where you are, well,hell yes again.
CDC reports that 476,000Americans are diagnosed with
Lyme disease.
That's the most recent yearstats, and that number, by the
way, keeps growing.
There are two ways to avoidadding to that number.
You can become a shut-in orlearn about the steps tick so
you can prevent becoming abanquet for ticks as well as
(38:18):
mosquitoes.
Here to talk about all this isthe founder of Sawyer, which has
been providing effectiveproducts to prevent tick and
mosquito contact since 1984.
Kurt Avery, how are you today,Kurt?
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Oh, we are great.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Very good to have you here to talk about this.
Sawyer.com to learn more aboutthe products as well that can
help you avoid what we aretalking about here because Kurt,
as I said, some people don'treally think of uh Lyme disease
or any tick or mosquito-borneillness as something serious or
they're not going to get it.
How wrong is that how wr wrongis that that belief?
SPEAKER_03 (38:53):
Well, it it's serious when it happens to you,
that's for sure.
So uh yeah, it's very serious.
And and they some of these arelifelong.
I mean, you know, maybe you getrid of some of the symptoms, but
they keep coming back.
So it it's very serious.
SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
Yeah, it's almost uh a a tick version of
post-traumatic stress disorder,some of these, because uh with
ticks especially, they they canhave impact.
I mean, it depends on yourpersonal he your specific
health, well-being, and yourage, but they could have
long-term neurological effectsif it's not taken care of.
SPEAKER_03 (39:27):
That's correct.
Uh so uh the the trick is toavoid getting uh a tick on you.
That's that's that's the gamehere.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
Uh and this includes, by the way, some
people wind up in in emergencyrooms just because they take
bites, and that number also,according to the the CDC, is
growing in numbers anddirections that no one wants
them to see go.
So give us some ideas ofprotection as far as because you
want to prepare before you gooutside, but then as you're
(39:55):
outside when you come indoors,let's store from beg before you
go outside, what should whatshould your armory include as
far as protection and safety andtrying to avoid all the nasty
stuff that ticks and mosquitoescan do to you?
SPEAKER_03 (40:08):
Yeah.
Well, first I like to start withunderstanding the tick.
It's a very i interestingcreature.
Um and then if you understandthem, you'll be better able to
keep them away from you.
So first of all, they onlybreathe one every 15 minutes.
So they're very, very slowmoving creatures.
And their second characteristicis they always climb upwards.
So they're gonna be at the topof the blade of the grass or
(40:30):
they're gonna be in a bush.
So obviously your first thingis, you know, keep your lawns
mode and you know, if you're outhiking, try to stay on the path
and unless you know you have togo into the bushes and stuff
like that.
And and the other thing isthey're usually proliferated by
a lot of rodents.
So you know, it's the smalllittle creatures, the mice and
the chipmunks.
(40:50):
If you're in an area full ofthem because uh predators are
gone, then then they're morelikely to be uh elevated uh
number of pigs there.
So what you do is um the thething the secret that most
people don't know understand ispermethrin.
And permethrin is something youput on your clothes or on
fabrics.
It's not a not a topicalrepellent you're gonna put on
(41:13):
your skin.
Those work as well.
But these the fabric treatmentcan last six weeks or six
washings, so it's a long thing.
The shoes.
Um was a study said that if youhave a treat your shoes with it,
a fabric shoe, you're 74% chanceless likely of ever getting a
tick to land because they'regonna start there and work their
way up.
(41:33):
So you do your socks, you doyour pants, you do your shirts
in case you're up againstbrushes.
When a tick crosses one inch offabric that's treated with
permethrin, that's it.
It's going to die that day.
But because it only breathesonce every 15 minutes, it may
live for another three, fourhours, but it's it'll never
embed.
(41:54):
It's it's got it's breathesthrough its abdomen, it's got
it, and and just breathes veryslowly.
The other side of it is if ifyou do have a tick on you, don't
panic.
These things are very, very slowmoving.
It's twelve to twenty-four hoursbefore it even exchanges fluids
with you where you would getsick.
So you have time to do your tickcheck, you have time to go
(42:14):
underneath it with a littletweezer and pull it out very
slowly, don't pop it out.
Don't use your cigarettes orVaseline to try and make it exit
by itself because it's gotlittle barbs on its mouthpiece.
And if you try to make it exitby itself, it's gonna spit
everything it has into you toloosen up the barbs.
So just very slowly and wiggleit out and clean up the area
(42:36):
when you're done with rubbingalcohol or soap and water.
Like that.
But you go slowly so you canonly be good.
So if you understand, and thenif you do think you have them on
you, you can always throw yourclothes in a dryer, turn it on
real hot.
That will kill them if you ifyou think you can't see 'em, but
it's on your clothes.
Uh, spray your dog.
It it uh we pares the same thingyou put on your clothes is gonna
(42:56):
last six weeks on a dog.
Uh spray the hair.
Um, don't bring 'em home.
Uh if you're a hunter like thatkind of thing, you shoot uh the
trophy.
Lay it on the blanket in theback of your truck so all the
ticks fall off and as they crawlaround on the blanket, they're
all gonna come home dead.
So a lot of ways to avoid them.
Um and and if they are there,just don't panic.
(43:19):
They're very, very slow uhthings.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
But but hopefully they'll be But they're
determined because I last time Iremember having a tick, I'm six
foot six tall and it was behindmy ear.
That was a hell of a long climb,and if it if it was slow, I was
just totally oblivious to it.
SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Exactly, exactly.
And you can't tell when you youwill not it's not like a
mosquito, you're not gonna feelit when it slowly inches in
there.
That's why you got ten, twelvehours, and they are gonna go up.
So it would obviously preferback of the knee.
It wants soft, dark skin,something real easy for them to
barb into, but obviously thecrotch, the armpits, you know,
(43:56):
and but if it runs out of luck,it's gonna get all the way up to
the head.
So
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
And by doing what you what you've described with
your with whatever it is you'rewearing, you're discouraging
them from going up becauseyou're stopping them ahead of
the game.
SPEAKER_03 (44:10):
Yeah, they'll climb up for about four or five hours,
but they're dead.
They're gonna die.
They will not have the abilityto embed.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
So you you talk about how they're they're
prevalent in high grass orwooded areas.
I'm thinking about people who gofishing.
If you're near water a lot, isthat also a a a good place to be
aware of uh the ticks andwhether or not they're latching
on to you?
SPEAKER_03 (44:36):
Well, no, it has nothing to do with the water.
It's going to be with the bushesand uh the ground there.
Remember now, what whatproliferates them are the road,
it's the it's the mice, thechipmunks, the squirrels.
We talked about them being onthe deers, but they really start
with the small animals.
And if you're in an area whereyou don't have hawks or foxes or
(44:57):
whatever, they if there's nopredator for the small things
because it's kind of chopped upthe woods, well then there's
gonna be a whole lot more inthose areas if you don't have
the deep.
The only thing that that eatsare are the birds.
But they but they they love tolatch on to the small rodents
and then they take them back tothe nest and they live and then
(45:19):
they grow and grow.
So, you know, if you if you'rein an area with a lot of bushy
area and you know there's littlesquirrels and stuff running
around, that that's gonna be apretty prolific area.
SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
Good to know, good to know.
And you mentioned about watchingout for your dogs too, making,
you know, whatever you're doingto yourself do safely to your
dogs as well, because they'recarriers just as easily as you
could be, wrapping up a timewith Kurt Avery, who's the
founder of Sawyer.
They make products, which I wantto get into now with Kurt about
how you can arm yourself and doit and without heavy-duty
(45:50):
chemicals and sprays or anythingthat you might think is toxic.
Sawyer.com is where you can findall the products too here
listening to issues and ideas.
So, what are some of the thingsthat you make available to
people as far as for or not justfor avoiding ticks and tick
attacks, but you have a wholehost of products.
SPEAKER_03 (46:08):
Yeah, and our ours comes from natural.
So the permethrin, which wetalked about for the fabric and
and you know, anythingbackpacks, all that kind of
stuff, which is from mosquitoesand through ticks.
Comes from a chrysanthemumplant.
It's a derivative of thechrysanthemum plant.
And our topical is picarin.
We're not using the date, we'reusing picarin, which comes from
the black pepper plant.
So these are much more mild onyour skin.
(46:30):
Um so we got both the topicaland the fabric treatment as
well.
And we do a lot of waterfiltration too.
Around the world we we well,we're very big in domestic and
uh any hikers and campersprobably know about uh our water
filters, but overseas we we gointo villages and give people
clean water.
I think we've done forty millionpeople already giving them clean
(46:50):
water.
So and now you talk about thatfor master.
Now we have just published inthe New England Journal of
Medicine is that same chemicalthat we're telling talking
about, if we treat the mom'sbaby wrap where she's carrying
the baby for two years of life,we reduce malaria in the
children by sixty-seven percent.
So that's just recentlypublished, and that's where
(47:12):
we're heading now with that uhwhy why not?
Why you know malaria is brutal.
Seven hundred thousand babies ayear die of malaria, and we got
the solution.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
So when these when people buy your products,
they're in turn not justprotecting themselves, but
they're supporting the work thatyou're doing in in countries and
with causes that you justdescribed.
SPEAKER_03 (47:33):
Oh, we d we do.
Um we we have a nice business,but you know, uh we give over
ninety percent of our profit andmore you know, donations go
overseas for these thesesituations.
Um how do we not do it?
I mean we got the solutions forbad water and for um mosquito
bites which kill what a third ofthe people in the world die one
(47:55):
or the other, and we got theeasy solution.
So we we have a foundation, theSawyer Foundation, and every
dollar goes overseas and andreally frankly a huge I I'm I'm
old enough, I don't need anymore money.
So we we pretty much donateeverything overseas.
So if you buy the product, yes,most of that profit's gonna end
(48:15):
up overseas.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
And you find out more about the products and the
work that the company and Curtis leading at Sawyer.com.
It is that time of year, but youdoesn't don't have to suffer or
be afraid to go outside.
You can do it safely withoutharsh chemicals, no matter what
your sensitivity is, your ages,whatever the case may be, you
can actually go out and enjoyyourself this summer and not
have to worry about these littlenasty ticks, mosquitoes, and
(48:39):
anything else giving after you.
And you when you buy fromSawyer, you're supporting a huge
amount of great work thatthey're doing to save a lot of
lives in nations overseas.
Kurt, thanks so much for helpingus better understand, prepare,
and for the difference you'remaking through the work of your
of Sawyer, Sawyer.com again, thewebsite.
Thanks for being here today.
SPEAKER_03 (48:59):
Oh, we thank you.
Giving us a chance to get alittle education out there.
Most people don't know about theeasy solutions.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Earlier we talked about how ICE detention centers
operate.
Elect the leaders, stateofficials actually have to make
an appointment to visit thesefacilities, usually twenty-four
to seventy-two hours in advance,depending on who you are.
As we've seen, if even thegovernor of New Jersey shows up,
she's refused immediate access.
So what's the Department ofHomeland Security and ICE trying
(49:28):
to hide?
Or maybe the more accuratequestion is, what are the afraid
will be seen and discovered?
Family members and friends ofthose being detained say that
these ICE detention centers arerampant with abuse, violence by
ICE officers.
We've seen how these poorlytrained ICE agents violently
lash out in public their actionsof range and pepper spraying and
(49:50):
physically assaulting people toactually shooting down Americans
in the street.
Do you think their behavior isany better in the darkness that
they so eagerly want to protect?
Jesus tells us exactly who thesepeople are in John chapter three
verses nineteen and twenty, andthis is the condemnation that
the light has come into theworld, and men love darkness
(50:11):
rather than light because theirdeeds were either, for everyone
practicing evil hates the lightand does not come to the light
lest his deeds should beexposed.
I've heard people, maybe youtoo, ranging from those in the
White House to social mediaclaim that Ice is doing God's
work.
(50:34):
If we say that we havefellowship with him and walk in
darkness we lie and do notpractice the truth.
In fact, it's Proverbs chapterfour verse nineteen, which gives
us the truth.
The way of the wicked is likedarkness.
They do not know what makes themstumble.
For all who are participating inand supporting what's being
perpetrated by Ice at detentioncenters, Isaiah chapter five,
(50:57):
verse twenty has a warning.
Woe to those who call evil goodand good evil, who put darkness
for light and light fordarkness, who put bitter for
sweet and sweet for bitter.
As we've also seen, a growingnumber of people are not
watching all this unfold only tosit alone feeling sorry for the
victims of this violenttreatment.
They're bringing forward a lightto reveal what the federal
(51:20):
government wants to keep hidingin the darkness.
Their desire will absolutelyfail, by the way, as mandated by
what we read in Ephesianschapter five, verse eleven, and
have no fellowship with theunfruitful works of darkness,
but rather expose them.
We who are God's children andchosen are the light because he
has filled us with his light.
(51:41):
This is confirmed by firstThessalonians chapter five verse
five.
You're all sons of light andsons of the day, we are not of
the night nor of darkness.
And the light of God just isn'ta visual.
Its source is absolutelyspiritual.
Paul teaches us this in SecondCorinthians chapter four, verse
six, for it is the God whocommanded light to shine out of
(52:03):
darkness who has shown in ourhearts to give the light of the
knowledge of the glory of God inthe face of Jesus Christ.
Staying in Second Corinthians,we are not to consort with those
who do wrong.
Arguing about their actions,then going to Denua with them,
excuses and even permits theirdarkness to continue.
Let's go to Second Corinthianschapter six fourteen, get an
(52:26):
explanation about this.
Do not be unequally yokedtogether with unbelievers, for
what fellowship hasrighteousness for lawlessness,
and what communion has lightwith darkness.
It's our duty as Christians toconfront the darkness with God's
light.
It's also a duty which Jesus inLuke chapter six verses forty
one and forty two teaches how weneed to be ready.
(52:47):
And why do you look at the speckin your brother's eye and do not
perceive the plank in your owneye?
Or how can you say to yourbrother, Brother, let me remove
the speck that is in your eyewhen you yourself do not see the
plank that is in your own eye.
Hypocrite, first remove theplank from your own eye, and
then you will see clearly toremove the speck that is in your
(53:09):
brother's eye.
In Second Timothy chapter four,verses two through four, we're
made to understand what we're upagainst as well.
Preach the word, be ready inseason and out of season,
convince, rebuke, exhort withall long suffering and teaching,
for the time will come when theywill not endure sound doctrine,
but according to their owndesires, because they have
(53:30):
itching ears, they will heap upfor themselves teachers, and
they will turn their ears awayfrom the truth, and be turned
aside to fables.
It's God's word that serves asour strength and armor in these
times too.
Titus chapter one verse ninereminds us this way, holding
fast the faithful word, as hehas been taught that he may be
able by sound doctrine both toexhort and convict those who
(53:53):
contradict.
Now, since the light and thedarkness cannot in any way
coexist, our works need to comewith the light, sourced by God's
light.
God's own words call on us tothe duty I've been talking about
(54:15):
today.
Let's turn to Leviticus chapterfive, verse one.
If a person sins in hearing theutterance of an oath and is a
witness, whether he has seen orknown of the matter, or if he
does not tell it, he bearsguilt.
As you hopefully know in yourheart and soul, our duty is not
to seek vengeance in times likethis.
God will handle that at the timeand in the way of his choosing.
(54:37):
Our direction is given to us inRomans chapter twelve, verse
twenty-one.
Do not be overcome by evil, butovercome evil with good.
So when we step forward, we stepaccording to God's will, not
ours.
Don't forget to check out ourwebsite, issues and
ideasradio.com.
We have more information aboutthe guests who joined us here on
(54:58):
the show today.
Of course, all the features onthe homepage, all through the
website.
And if you've been listening viayour favorite podcast platform,
make sure you subscribe andfollow.
Always grateful and thankful asyou come along for the ride with
us each and every time.
Look forward to being with youright here this time next week
for our next edition of Issuesand Ideas.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.