January 13, 2025 • 57 mins
This week, we are comparing Captain Fantastic (2016) and The Glass Castle (2017), two films about families raised in unconventional ways.
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The Movies:
Directed by Matt Ross
Written by Matt Ross
iMDb Rating: 7.8
Directed by Destin Daniel Cretton
Written by Destin Daniel Cretton & Andrew Lanham
Based on the memoir by Jeannette Walls
iMDB Rating: 7.1
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Our website - ItTakesTwo.co.nz
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Content Warning:
Discussions of death, suicide, illness, poverty, mental illness, physical abuse, child abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, trauma, injury.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa. And I'm Nick. And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast
(00:23):
where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch them discuss
them. Happy 2025. This is the first episode of 2025, starting the new year off strong.
These were thoroughly enjoyable movies. 2017 is The Glass Castle and 2016 is Captain Fantastic.
Yeah, I've seen these compared a lot. And I had seen Captain Fantastic before, but I'd
(00:48):
never seen The Glass Castle. So essentially, they're both about families with multiple
children where the children are being raised in an unconventional way by parents who are
kind of disillusioned with American capitalist society, essentially. And how that impacts
(01:13):
the kids and how they grow up. And, you know, in terms of like their education and how they're
treated physically and how they're treated mentally and what the relationship with their
parents are like, there's a lot explored in both movies.
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to sum up. I think going through the point of view of the person
(01:40):
you're following most in either of these movies, for Glass Castle, you're following Brie Larson,
who's playing because this is based on a true story for Glass Castle. Anyway, you're following
Brie Larson's character, who's the second oldest daughter, who's now a successful writer
in New York City. And it's basically you can't constantly getting like these flashbacks to
(02:06):
when she was a child. Woody Harrelson plays the dad, and he is a man with, as you said,
you know, the very distant franchise with, I would say moderning America because it like
if it's supposed to be 89 in the beginning of the movie, which I'm assuming based on
(02:30):
the way that it was filmed is current. Kevin Fantastic is a little bit more modern. He
talks about his army like his military history. So I'm assuming it would have been Korea.
Yeah, yeah, probably makes sense.
(02:50):
Oh, Strada wants to get inside. And Kevin Fantastic, you're following, he's looking
at us through the window. You're following through from Ben Cash, Viggo Mortensen's character
as the sort of main point of view. And each of his kids sort of have like bit parts, but
(03:14):
they've got their own story where I think the other one is very much like how her childhood
affected. I think it's Angela Wells.
Jeanette is the main daughter.
Jeanette Wells, yeah.
Who's?
Walls. Is it Walls?
No, it's Walls.
Walls.
Walls.
Sorry. Yeah, Jeanette is the main daughter.
(03:37):
So I think weirdly, because I often struggle to remember the names of characters films,
but I think I actually remember the kids names in both films. So I think in that one, it's
Laurie, Jeanette, Brian and Maureen. And then in the other one, Bodavon, Vesper and, what's
(03:57):
her name? I was going to say Kaiser. That's not her name. Something similar. No, I can't
remember if we get any other twins name. No, no, I've now I've forgotten them, but I was
remembering them. The two youngest are Zaja and Nye.
Yeah, that's correct.
(04:18):
Those are the kids that are, or Rellian?
Rellian.
Yeah. So it's literally one kid who I'm forgetting is the other twin.
Yeah.
What is her name? Keto? They all have made up names.
I will spell it out for you. K-I-E-L-Y-R.
K-I-E-L-Y-R. Keeler?
(04:39):
Okay.
I can't remember them. I don't remember them saying it much. They say the other kids names
quite a bit. Ironically, two of the kids, the two youngest, Zaja and Nye, the actors
who played them also played two of the kids in the other movie, in The Glass Castle, at
(05:01):
different ages, but they played Maureen and Brian at different points in their life. So
I thought it was interesting that not only are these films that are compared a lot of
they were released a year apart and they deal with similar topics. I don't think they're
super the same, but I can definitely see why they're compared. But the fact that they also
(05:22):
have the same child actors, cast as the kids, it's like, oh, okay.
Talk about being typecast.
And also a lot of redheads in both.
Yeah. It's a very fascinating, both of them are very fascinating stories.
I think what I feel like would be a good thing to talk about and compare is the characters
(05:47):
of the fathers. I know that the father isn't the lead role or it's not through his perspective
in The Glass Castle, but I think talking about the father in both films and the arcs they
follow and the kind of character development they get is an interesting way to compare
these movies because obviously one of them is a real life story. So they can only take
(06:13):
so many creative liberties with it. And sadly, that's the one where the father does not have
a very positive character arc. But it's a very pervasive, true to life, real story of
a cycle of abuse. Whereas in Captain Fantastic, he is also in both movies. So in both movies,
(06:37):
the father seems to mean well and love his kids, at least in the beginning, but unintentionally
is putting them through physical abuse and psychological abuse. Certainly, I think in
The Glass Castle more so because like that there is a cycle of abuse. I think in Captain
(07:04):
Fantastic, because we're seeing it from his point of view, we're not seeing it as abuse
until like other people pointed out and he suddenly wakes up to the fact that actually
what he's been doing is not healthy for his kids. But in Captain Fantastic, he then changes
and finds a balance, which is not something that happens in The Glass Castle.
(07:26):
It's interesting because I think previously too, I think my outlook on both of these movies,
not so much Glass Castle, but very much on Captain Fantastic. Recently in New Zealand
(07:47):
News, there is someone who is very much like him running around. For those who don't know,
because I was thinking about this when we were, well, I think after the movie finished,
New Zealand has the same approximate population as Ireland. Ireland landmass wise is a much
(08:11):
smaller country. Yeah, it's about one third the size.
And there is a lot of New Zealand that is not uninhabitable. It is just not productive
to metropolis style living. Auckland contains about one more than one fifth of New Zealand's
(08:38):
entire population. I can't remember the exact numbers. I probably looked them up. I think
it's like 1.5 million people live in Auckland or Auckland district. I think it's getting
closer to the 2 million. 1.7, 1.8. So there is a vast percentage of New Zealand
who live exclusively in Auckland. But in saying that you're talking about 5.8, whatever we're
(09:00):
at now, 8 maybe. I'm not even 100% sure. Yeah, around that.
I was like four when I was a child. Yeah, same in Ireland. Populations go up.
So there is currently a man on the run from the law with his kids living somewhere in
(09:21):
New Zealand to the point where he was filmed by pig hunters recently, which made the national
news and I went through his entire Wikipedia page and looked all into what was going on.
Basically, he's disenfranchised with New Zealand and the government and policing and society
(09:42):
and has taken his, I think it's two, I think he's got two kids and they are living rough
in the wilderness, but he's doing a bunch of theft along the way and stealing things,
which is why the police want to see him. Obviously, endangerment of his children.
Both of those are things that happened in both of these movies.
Yeah, 100%. And I thought it was very relevant. So even New Zealand being quite a small country,
(10:08):
but because of how our population density outside of the major cities is very low, people
can just literally will not disappear. But yeah, I mean, infamously, there was a guy
who was on a hike, as they call it, they call them tramps in New Zealand for people who
don't know them. But a hike on Stewart Island, which is the third major island of New Zealand.
(10:35):
And by major island, I mean, it's like very small compared to the other two islands. And
COVID happened. And the guy continued to hike around like three weeks or four weeks or something
and arrived back in the in the only town on the island and was like, Hey, what's going
(10:55):
on? And everyone's like, what do you mean? We're all in lockdown. He's like, what does
that mean?
It happened to a deerstalker as well. I don't remember where, but he was like out and about
doing his thing. For those who aren't, don't know, which is probably the vast majority
is in New Zealand, you only go home when your second set of clothing is wet. So it can be
(11:20):
weeks. And yeah, this guy just like rocked up and the police were like, mate, what are
you doing? And he's like, what do you mean? It's like we're in a lockdown. He's like,
what? It's like, I gotta go to the grocery store.
Yeah, like a proper dystopia. These people who are just, you know, in the in the bushland
doing their own thing. And then they're like, oh, society has come to a standstill.
(11:47):
And it is very, it's very interesting because I think we see Glass Castle happens over many,
many years. So they're literal children. I think the earliest actor was like playing
Brie Larson's character at eight. So if it's 1989, 1981.
(12:08):
Yeah. And at that point, it was the youngest Maureen was a baby. Yeah. So it is very interesting
in comparison to yet Kevin Fantastic, which tends to happen over a couple of days, maybe
a week from the movie point of view. Yeah, because they say it's at the beginning. I
(12:31):
think we I think we get to see two or three days at the beginning. And then he gets the
phone call saying that it's five days to the funeral. Yeah. Which is what the whole thing
hinders around that. Yeah. So it's probably a week or a little over a week that most of
it happens because there is obviously at the end, the ending of it is there's a little
bit of a time skip, but it's like probably months at most. Yeah. It's it's very interesting.
(12:57):
Like I thoroughly enjoyed Captain Fantastic. I think the acting from all characters was
really solid. Yeah. The motivation seemed real. It's funny because like Glass Castle
is based on a true story. And I didn't like I didn't like any of the characters in it.
(13:19):
Yeah. Rex Woody Harrison's character is an abusive father who has these grand ideals.
And obviously, he's a very intelligent man. Yeah. In both cases, they're at the father's
very intelligent. And yeah, it's it's very interesting because I think the big revelation
(13:40):
in Glass Castle comes when they move in with her with their grandparents. Yeah. Also something
that happens about. But in in the Glass Castle, like she's grown up with this dad who is really
intelligent, totally disenfranchised with society and capitalism and all the rest and
(14:03):
like racism and like if it wasn't for the alcoholism, he would probably be like a decent
father. Yeah. So this is it. So she so certainly at the beginning of the movie, it's clear
that he loves his kids. He's doing this for his kids. He's trying to build them this perfect
(14:24):
house that he wants them to all have. He has this dream that he has for them. But it gets
hindered by, as you said, alcoholism and the realities of life that like they are squatting.
So they do. Police do show up and they are stealing sometimes or they are running a con.
(14:46):
So they do have to keep moving. And then they end up. Is it after she got no, because it's
after a time skip. I was going to say that after she got burned, but it's that's right
at the beginning. Yeah. It's later on in it. I can't remember what the what the reason
was that they end up going to the grandparents house. But he turns into a different person
(15:08):
instantly. Like his whole he just like closes in on himself and shuts down. And they don't
even have to tell you anything about his parents before you go. I know what this is like. Like
it's so clear in Woody Harrelson's body language and in the way that he just like because I
mean, it's a running joke throughout the movie almost that he talks so much. He just keeps
(15:29):
talking and when he's there, he's just like almost quiet. His personality is just shut
down. And then you see the grandmother slaps one of the kids and the kids get outraged
about it. But then he's like, no, respect your grandmother. And that's and then that's
all he'll he'll say about it. And then there is a later moment where they're back with
(15:54):
the grandparents and one of the kids is molested by the grandmother and the kids again all
pile on. But when the dad gets back, he he was like, no, I don't I don't need to hear
what happened. You know, you shouldn't have done it. We'll go. And I think it's like,
I mean, it's heavily implied. And I but I think they can't say it because it sounds
(16:18):
like the real person doesn't know if it actually happened or what the real story is. But clearly
the father was abused at least like physically by his parents and potentially sexually. Yeah.
And it's really yeah, it's really eye opening to go. Oh, OK. This guy is trying to do what's
(16:40):
right for his kids and trying to be loving to his kids, but also trying to deal with
this trauma and also being a victim of a cycle of abuse that he is incapable of breaking
out of. So he becomes abusive because that's the parenting he knows. Even when he's like
he shows his kids way more actual like love and interest for a lot of it than his parents
(17:06):
ever seem to show him or show the kids. But it doesn't excuse the fact that then he is
also abusive. It's very interesting because like the concept of the new normal, it's human
beings are very adaptive as a species and we can adapt to any situation. And I feel
(17:31):
like especially with Rex and the Walls family, they literally just like disappear. There's
no school. There's no like, you know, it's usually a cycle of them arriving in a new
place. Rex, Woody Harrelson's character talking up a big game about it, how they're going
(17:51):
to do all these cool things and like, you know, don't worry kids, you know, blah, blah,
blah, we're going to do this and do that and rah rah rah. And then he finds some job because
it's implied that he constantly like, you know, he's moving from place to place just
getting random jobs. And then because of his alcoholism, they end up losing his job and
(18:14):
then the, you know, the bills pile up and they have to bail. And it is so normal for
the children that they don't argue. They just all pile in the truck and disappear again.
And that's how they do the time skip one of the times is that like they're piling the
truck and he's like, don't worry, this is the last time we'll do this. And then when
the door opens, they're, you know, a few years old, they're five years older or whatever.
(18:35):
And it's just like, oh, I think that's very different comparison with Captain Fantastic
because they've moved around a lot when the kids were a lot younger. Yeah. But I think
it was like, I don't remember, maybe 13, did he say 13 years that they've been living and
wherever they're living? Possibly. Yeah. And, you know, it was the only reason that their
(18:59):
entire this entire arc of story has happened is because spoilers, big spoilers for the
first 30 minutes of the movie. The mother, the mother of the family was in hospital due
to a neurological condition, which was bipolar. And then on her low, she ends up committing
(19:21):
suicide. And that's why they, you know, he's just like, nah, you know, we can all grieve,
but we're moving on. We're staying here. And then it's like, you know, you can't come to
the funeral and blah, blah, blah. And it sort of leaves them on this big mission into society.
And it's like, I think up to the point of the mother dying, they were pretty well, like
(19:47):
doing pretty well for themselves. Yeah, they're very self-sufficient. Yeah. And it's, it's
the big difference is like actual planning, I think, because you see in Glass Castle that
he's got this idealism that he he's like, this is how it will be. And you're all going
to learn, you know, the kids don't need to go to school because they're learning from
(20:08):
experience, but he's not actually like, he hasn't come up with an actual concrete plan
to give them experience that'll help them learn. You know, like there's, there's a swimming
lesson where he's just throwing her in the pool repeatedly and traumatizing her. And
it's like, this is how you learn to swim. No, it's not. Whereas in Captain Fantastic,
they do, you know, they do endurance sports, they do combat, hand to hand combat, they
(20:34):
do, you know, they're doing like rock climbing and running and they do it all together. They
do music, they do, they learn science, they have a signed reading that he's giving them
at their, at their level. And sometimes they're, you know, trying to skip a head of grade
and read a bit about that. When they ask him questions, he gives them like actual answers.
If one of them wants to do something differently, he says, okay, you know, let's do have a debate.
(20:57):
You give me your arguments and we'll see, you know, why you want to do this. And he's
really trained his kids in critical thinking and he's trained them in survival skills.
And, you know, and it's clear that they had a plan and that they have been educating them.
They're living in the woods, but they have all these books, like just, they have, have
(21:17):
like a huge library of different reading levels so that the kids can read appropriately. And
they do have societal rules, such as wear clothes when we're eating. But also like the
kids can hunt for themselves. They know how to, how to hunt a deer and, and how to do
everything around it. They're planting their own plants, they're running their own garden,
(21:40):
they're collecting water and, you know, and watering their plants. And he is, you know,
him and his wife, presumably up to this point have really trained them in, or really actually
educated them in like a whole wide range of things. And there is a sequence later on when
they're, when they're visiting his sister or her kids.
God, that was so amazing.
(22:01):
Where she's saying, you know, your kids need to go to school to learn about the world.
It wasn't even just that. It was the, so I want to talk about the scene in depth because
it's just such a, like, it's just a giant middle finger. Like I envy that lifestyle.
(22:22):
Yeah, yeah.
But at the same time, I'm incredibly lazy and I also like modern comforts of like, you
know, how do I get hot water? I turn the tap on. How do I, you know, light something? I
flick a switch. You know, I love playing video games. I love movies. I love, you know, all
the little stupid expensive hobbies that I have. I agree with the convenience and laziness
(22:50):
of modern lifestyle. But at the same time, there is that primal lizard brain in me that
wants to abandon society and go live in the woods and live sustainably off the land.
This is like a guidebook on how to do it.
Yeah, pretty much. Like it's, so the kitchen's, the whole sequence, you know, he turns up
(23:14):
with his sister-in-law's house.
No, it's his sister.
It's his actual sister.
Yeah, it's his sister.
She turns up at her sister's house with her husband and her two kids, her two boys. And
there's this moment of like, you know, oh, how did you kill the chicken? And the mum's
(23:38):
like, the sister's like, I bought it.
Also, like right before that, she is considering his lifestyle and his ideals because she made
sure that there isn't any processed food in the table, that it is all like organic food.
You know, like she has taken into consideration what he wants. We do see another scene where
(23:59):
they go to like a diner and he's like, this isn't real food. We can't eat any of this.
So yeah, I just want to say like, she is actually thinking about it.
I think that is the only moment of obvious abuse because he is very much up to that point
in the movie, up to the diner scene. So I'll jump back to the thing, but you brought up
(24:21):
a very valid point. He is talking about the fact that they're able to make their own choices
based on their wants and their ideology. And they're in a diner and this is obviously not
the normal. And he refuses all the children's wants because they're all like, oh my God,
there are things on this menu. Like, can we get hamburgers? Can we get pancakes? And he
(24:44):
rejects all of that and makes them leave. Yeah. But that is almost borderline against
his own philosophy that he's taught the children.
Well, here's the thing, because what do they do next? They go to the supermarket and they
steal. So I think... That is the most amazing con of like, oh,
I'm getting the hardest kick and all the kids are like...
I think the implication is that he's telling them, no, he is breaking down philosophy because
(25:09):
he says, don't tell lies. He doesn't lie to his kids. He's telling them it's because there's
no food on the menu. I think he doesn't have the money to afford it.
It's probably true. Yeah. I think it's that he literally, when they start talking about
all the different things they want to get, he's like, I can't buy those. Because then
he brings them and they steal food. Yeah.
(25:30):
You know, and he turns it into a game or a mission for them. But it is, you know, gamifying
the fact that he literally can't afford to feed them.
But again, it's also the fact that he wasn't telling his children the truth.
Yeah. So he is still going against his own philosophy.
The kitchen, the dining room sequence. Yeah. So he gets offered some wine, I think his
(25:54):
youngest, second youngest also requests wine. And he's like, sure. And like, but it's this
lead up of like the fact that the sister is telling her kids absolute bullshit. She's just
like, oh no, that, you know, on the husband as well as...
Yeah, it's mainly her husband. Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, sick people go to hospital
and sometimes they, you know, they die. Because they ask how their aunt died.
(26:17):
Yeah. And then he turns around and is just like, no, she had, you know, explains medically
what was wrong with her, what caused the illness and why she's dead. And the fact that she
spoils, sorry, spoilers and triggering, she commits suicide.
And his kids are perfectly fine with it. They're like, yeah, this is the truth. Like the other
(26:42):
kids are like so horrified. They're confused. The sister obviously is, it's interesting
because like part of the, like, you know, it jumps into it a little bit later on in
another sequence. But this concept that like one of the things that society teaches us
(27:03):
to, especially for men, is showing emotion is weakness. And it is very much so in the
juxtaposition between the kids, the different kids life, you know, it's talking back to
their mom, playing violent video games, not understanding things, being confused that
(27:30):
there's no like logo worship within the family. There's not like this breed of capitalist
ideals is like completely lost on them. The fact that when they mentioned Nike, the brand,
they're talking about the Greek or Roman god, I can't remember which one it is.
Roman, I think, Nike.
(27:52):
Yeah. And it's just like, it's like Ernie Daz. It's like, what is that?
And then when they tell them like it's shoes, they're like, oh, okay.
It's even though like I'm turned into a crackhead, like it's not a crack. It was like, what's
crack? It's like, oh, it's a crystallized form of cocaine. It's horrible. It was introduced
to the inner city and the implications of like the fact that when the kids ask a question,
(28:16):
they actually get an answer. And it's so poignant in the next scene where like the sisters
explain to them like the kids need to go to school. And it's like, why? Oh, so they can
learn about stuff, learn about the world. So he brings her kids down and ask them what
the bill of rights are. And neither of them can tell them. And he brings like his eight
(28:39):
year old daughter down and is just like, what's the bill of rights? And she starts reciting
it. And then he's like, no, no, I want you, I want to hear your own words, a salvation
of what it means. And then she's able to do that. The sister is like, no, we get it. Yeah.
And she's like, sorry, very impressive. And then she's like, don't dismiss the kid. The
(29:00):
kid did a really good job.
It's just like, what did I say to you? I think getting schooled in your own kitchen. Yeah.
It's such a brutal life.
But then she does also have a point. It's just that she's not making the right point.
Yeah.
But I think the grandfather makes it more. And also the kids make it to him, which is
(29:21):
that it's not that they don't have academic knowledge because they have leaps and bounds
in academic knowledge. Like they're so good at academics. So it's that they have no real
world experience.
It's socialism. It's not socialism.
It's socialism. They know about socialism.
Yeah. No, it's socialization.
(29:41):
Yeah. Because they've only socialized with each other. And they haven't. I mean, I think
it's great because he really makes an effort that they do everything as a family and that
they make decisions as a family and that they do all their activities as a family. So he
is doing that socialization, but they're not getting to meet other kids their age, not
getting to meet people of different ages. They're not getting to actually learn what
(30:06):
life is like outside of their bubble.
And it is very obvious with the older son, because when they go into town before they
get the news of the mother passing away and he's obviously selling artisanal handmade
birdhouses, which is like good on him for like a side hustle.
Yeah. It's how he's getting the money for the few bits of actual money they need.
(30:33):
And he phrases when he bumps into girls his age, because he doesn't know how to socialize
with them. And he's like, you know, fantastic physical form, very educated, like he would
be to most girls of his age group, a very attractive young man.
(30:56):
Incredibly intelligent. He got into every school.
He got into every big names college in the United States without going to a school.
It's the moment where he sneaks away, he gets the letters that have been addressed to him
and it is literally opens one after the other and they're all Ivy League schools and they're
all like, we'd be happy to please like, please we have been accepted, which then he hides
(31:20):
from his father. It's not until he meets, I don't remember the actor's name, Starlight
from the Boys, who's like, her name is Claire in the movie.
She's very whiskey tango. Reminds me of girls I used to meet and talk to when I went to
(31:43):
campsites at that age, were maybe younger than Bo's age. You know, the smoking and the
drinking at very young ages, you know, that kind of thing. And yeah, the first time they
kiss he's like on his hands and knees in front of his mother, her mother, Claire's mother,
(32:05):
proposing to her in the most philosophical and awkward, cringy way possible to the point
where they just laugh because, you know, they're not real people at that point.
The other thing is like before that, when he's just talking to her, there's a very funny
moment where he is lying through his teeth. So he knows that where they've come from is
(32:31):
not normal. And he knows that he's going to sound weird if he explains the actual situation.
So he makes something up. But because all of his experiences through like these novels
that he's read, he's like, oh yes, we've come from France and my father's doing a dissertation
on Dr. Spock. And she's like, oh, I love Star Trek. He's like, what? And then she's like,
(32:55):
oh, you know, and he explains the Dr. Spock he's talking about. And then she's like, no,
I met like that old TV show. He's like, oh, oh yeah, I've seen that one. I love it.
And then his mum works for him. She's like a secret agent with the government. Yeah,
it's very interesting because they do not have any socialization with children or people
(33:23):
their own age. And it really shows when like they're at the bank, that moment when they're
in the bank is just like, these people are sick. It's like, what do you mean? It's like
they're all fat. It's like, you can't say that out loud. They live a different lifestyle
to us. You can't say that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very sad. Sorry to go back to the glass castle
(33:49):
because it just is like Rex, Woody Harrelson's character wants nothing but the best for his
kids. Yeah. And just does it the most worst way possible. And even up to the point where
she asks him to stop drinking and he goes through horrific alcohol withdrawal. And you
(34:18):
know, you're like, oh, now they're on track guys, don't worry. And then instantly the
first point in time where he faces something he can't deal with, he just instantly goes
back to drinking again. And it is really sad if anybody facing addiction to, you know,
end up in that situation. And it does happen. People revert all the time. Like as a nicotine
(34:44):
addict myself, it is the amount of times I've gone through quitting and relapse and quitting
and relapse and quitting and relapse, especially when I was smoking cigarettes. It's, you know,
it's about changing your lifestyle rather than changing the habit. You have to find
something to replace the habit. And yeah, I will fully admit that, you know, the first
(35:10):
time you come across something you can't emotionally deal with, it always ends up back to your
vice again. And it's very sad watching, you know, the sort of all the dreams that he's
building his kids up on sort of just come crashing down again. To the point where in
(35:30):
the movie, there's a moment which I thought was probably the saddest and really hammered
home the kids sort of loss of the delusion loss of hope is when they first like the what
was it $15 a month and by the end of the year, they own the house for the place they end
(35:51):
up settling in last. He's like talking about laying the foundations for their dream home,
this thing that he's been building and doing the all the architectural design for over
all this time. And like getting his kids input and like, you know, talking about a solar
farm and you know, the glass and you know, the foundations that they dug years later
(36:17):
are literally the trash heap. Yeah. And that is like the moment where Brie Larson's character
is it actually Brie Larson? Yeah, when she's a teenager. Yeah, it's just very much like
yeah, this is this is never gonna happen. Yeah. And it is him that steals her money.
(36:39):
Yeah, I think that's implied. Because a lot of their issues come down to the financial
drain that is his alcoholism and gambling later on as well. I think the worst scene
would have to be like we're the youngest wakes Brie Larson's character up. Well, not so yeah,
(37:04):
it is Brie Larson's character up, but she's not Brie Larson yet. Angela, Angela, Jeanette,
Jeanette, sorry. Thank you. Jeanette up and says I'm hungry and what she does is mix butter
with sugar. Yeah, the child has something palatable to eat. And the mom person is like,
I was going to make that to make you know, use it for making bread. It's like you know,
(37:26):
when are you going to do that? Oh, in a couple of days. Yeah, I think it is heavily implied
that the mother has severe mental health issues. Oh, yeah. Well, John, we see the case in both
movies. Yeah. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if she also was bipolar. Yeah.
Um, she reminds me a lot of there's definitely some hoarding and going on as well. Yeah,
(37:52):
but she she really reminds me of Andy McDowell's character in made. And who again, is it like a
mother of a of an abused person who's breaking the cycle of abuse and where she is, yeah, very
eccentric and erratic and an artist and living a nomadic lifestyle and loves her kids, but is
(38:20):
never quite there for them and never is there to support them and back them up when they're facing
abuse. And I think that's yeah, there's she really reminds you of that character. I know she's based
on a real person and the other character isn't but it's yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if it was
if it was bipolar disorder that she had as well or borderline personality disorder potentially.
(38:44):
Because this is that moment of him being like, Oh, you want food? Fine, I'm gonna take all the
money we've got and I'm gonna get food and turns up 10 hours later, like having been in a fight.
Yeah, you assume it's a fight and he seems to be drunk. Yeah. Yeah. To the point where he says I'm
so pickled, I won't be able to feel it and then gets his daughter to sew his arm up. Yeah.
You know, it's not normal. And he's drinking while she's doing it and there's no food that he's
(39:09):
brought back. Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting because I remember, you remember the Alaskan
Bush People show that I was watching? Yeah. Yeah, which is reality TV, a little bit only dramatic.
But again, that sort of lifestyle of like, let's live in the wilderness and only go to society when
(39:32):
we need to. Yeah. And, you know, those are on paper. I think like I remember reading about it
and they were like the you know, some of the stuff they did on that was like made for the show and
like very hammed up but like, again, the kids and that show weren't very socially adept.
(39:54):
It was very interesting, interesting little sort of reality TV gleam.
Very much very similar to what we're discussing. End of the movie, I guess,
or the themes at the end of the movie, I guess. Well, I mean, going back to what I was saying
(40:15):
earlier about the dads. Oh yeah. I think towards the end of the movies, Rex, Woody Harrelson's
character has gotten worse. Yeah, 100%. As the movie progresses, he gets less idealistic and more
abusive. Yeah. By the end of the movie, he's like showing up at her, showing up and announced at her
(40:39):
engagement party to a guy that he doesn't approve of because he wants to borrow money from her.
And it turns out that they could have had money the whole time. They just chose not to sell some
money that her mother had inherited. And then he gets very sick. And then suddenly it's like
just highlighting all the positive moments in her life with him. And it's like, yeah, but he still is
(41:03):
very abusive and worse and worse as your life went on. There's a point where they like uproot
and then move to New York and escort him in like an abandoned place. And yeah,
that's like, talk about like not giving in to your, you know, your one kid who's just like,
you know what, fuck this, I'm out. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very interesting. Well, her and her older
(41:31):
sister and the brother all got out one by one. Yeah. Whereas then in Captain Fantastic,
you know, they. Crashed the mother's funeral because he's been told by her dad that he'll
get him arrested if he shows up because they believe that his lifestyle is what drove her to
(41:51):
to suicide. And there's huge arguments in the grandparents' file for custody
because one of the kids runs away to their house because he's the rebellious kid who doesn't want
to be a part of it anymore. And they the rest of them want to rescue him. And in the process,
Vesper, one of the twins, gets really severely injured and almost dies. And it's a wake up call
(42:16):
for Ben, isn't it Ben? That actually, you know, what the grandfather said is correct that by
putting his kids through all of this physical, physical, physical pain, you know, they're not
by putting his kids through all of this physical, you know, just the amount of training they go
(42:37):
through. It's like almost like military training, you know, that it is actually
almost abusive, it's borderline abusive. And I mean, they're happy to go along with it. Yeah. But
I mean, the kid, I forgot his name again. I was going to say Rogelian. That's not right.
Whatever his name is. Rogelian. The one who gets rebellious and runs away. There was a moment of
(43:02):
abuse with him earlier because he slipped doing rock climbing or abseiling and injured his hand.
And then the dad was like, well, no one's going to magically appear and help you. So what do you do?
How do you get out of the situation by yourself? And, you know, and he's a kid. You should be going
and helping him. Like you should be getting him out of that situation and treating it and, you know,
(43:26):
whatever. So that, I think that part was abusive. I don't think it was intentionally abusive,
but abuse isn't always intentional. And I think it's when this, when his other kid gets injured,
that he really goes, they're right. This isn't the way to do it. And he initially relinquishes
(43:47):
custody of the kids, but that the kids want to stay with him. So he finds a middle ground.
So they're still doing, they're planting, they're still doing their reading and their music,
but they're also going to real school at the end. He finds a way for them to be able to get integrated
into society, get the education that they need from, you know, the way other kids are getting,
(44:13):
but still get to do, you know, learn how to be sustainable and self-sufficient.
And I think he grows a lot. He, like by the end of the movie, he has really seen,
you know, where there were problems in his behaviour and how he can fix those. And he's
worked with the kids and he has a better relationship with all the kids by the end of the movie,
which is not the case in The Glass Castle, where like, yeah, they patch it up a little bit because
(44:38):
he's dying. And, you know, and after he passes away, they have a Thanksgiving where they talk
about like fond memories of him, but he still left horrible scars on these kids, you know,
and it's figuratively, figuratively and literally, because he, because one of them is she got
horrifically burned as a child because her parents didn't want to look after her, didn't want to
(45:02):
help her and just told her to go cook her own food. And she accidentally set fire to her dress
because she was like five or six years old or something or like, and it's horrible. And he
was like, it's horrible. Yeah. So emotionally scarred and physically scarred. And I don't know
(45:24):
what, what the real, you know, wall's life is like, but I hope that she has broken that cycle of abuse.
She's obviously well aware of it if she wrote the book that that movie is based on.
Yeah. But yeah, it's not, I mean, it's not easy. It's known as a cycle because it is.
(45:47):
Anyway, anyway, we'll move on to some trivia. Yeah. Let's go glass castle trivia first.
So it is based on true story, as we know, and they were often on the run for government,
usually hiding in small towns and living in poverty. Sadie Sink plays Laurie at one of the
(46:08):
ages, the older sister. And she was vegetarian at the time. And apparently Woody Harrelson and his
family are all vegan, which I didn't know. And she became very close to Woody Harrelson and was
inspired by his family and his lifestyle and is now vegan. Thanks for Woody Harrelson. So
(46:31):
this movie was originally supposed to be made in 2012 and they had a different lead actress signed
on. It was supposed to be starring Jennifer Lawrence. Oh, interesting. But it went on for
ages pre-production because they couldn't get anyone to star as the father, as Rex. So she left
(46:53):
the cast and then Brie Larson joined the cast. And then Woody Harrelson joined the cast shortly
after Brie Larson did. It was just funny because then that would have been a reunion for Katniss,
Everdeen and Hamish, whatever, from the other names. Yeah. So it was originally supposed to be
(47:15):
Jennifer Lawrence, but then Brie Larson took it. Captain Fantastic, I feel like most of the trivia
is similarly to if you're watching Lord of the Rings, it is very much just Viggo Mortensen being
Viggo Mortensen. But the first thing is that Viggo Mortensen is partly the reason why it feels so
(47:39):
realistic, A Tree to Life, because he really wanted to pay attention to how their alternative
lifestyle worked and what it actually meant. But also Matt Ross, who was a writer in the film,
the director, isn't it? Yeah, writer and director. Yeah. Based some of that on his own childhood and
(48:02):
his own the way that he grew up, because he did grow up in alternative living situations.
So he was able to draw on that experience, living off the grid in a similar lifestyle,
not quite the same, but similar. And then do research on it. And him and Viggo made it very,
very realistic. So everything that they do is accurate to how you can live that kind of lifestyle
(48:25):
in that area. All of the actors playing the kids and Viggo went on a two-day survival trip and slept
together as a family in a hut that they built made of ferns and learned how to track and to start fire
with a bow drill. They did a lot of reading and they learned about the world's political systems.
So they, proper method acting, let's go on a little hiking trip and learn and do some reading.
(48:53):
So he also, Matt Ross has said that when Viggo agreed to do the role, he sent him an email
full of questions and notes and Matt Ross printed it out and it was 32 pages long for today.
So incredibly thorough. I think it worked for both of them, because I think it sounds like
(49:17):
Matt Ross was a person who wanted people, who wanted the statistic to detail and also
wanted to have the realism of the family having spent time together and Viggo Mortensen is clearly
the right person for that kind of a role. Viggo Mortensen also provided most of his own costume.
So like he has a Jesse Jackson shirt that he wears in it and that was because he had actually
(49:39):
campaigned for Jesse Jackson in 1988 and kept the t-shirt. The patterned red shirt that he wears
to the funeral. Which is also, by the photo, is probably what he wore in his wedding. Yes,
and it's also what Viggo Mortensen wore in his own wedding.
So Viggo Mortensen wore that to his wedding and then they have the photo of him wearing it to his
(50:00):
wedding to his wife in the movie and then he wears it to her funeral. See, that's just Viggo's clothes.
One of the things that I think is interesting is
Viggo Mortensen is so known for being how he is, that he hiked up, you know, that he did so
(50:21):
much stuff and he lived like Aragorn. I think people assumed he was being Viggo Mortensen
when they did the rock climbing scene. He decided he was going to stay on the rock face
instead of joining them for meal break so they would send sandwiches up the ropes for him.
But it turned out he was actually just really afraid and he didn't want to admit to anyone that
(50:43):
he just didn't want to look down. So he didn't want to go down and then go back up to reshoot.
He wanted to just stay there and not look down and have them send the food up to him.
And he only admitted it when they were doing press tours after the film was released and people were
like, what? But yeah, so then I just took another note about Matt Ross, which is that he conceived
(51:07):
of the film as a sort of a
new parent. He and his wife were new parents and he was questioning the choices they were making
as parents and wondered what would happen if he was like completely present in his children's
lives and thinking about how modern technology makes that difficult. And then he thought about
his own childhood and what it would look like in a modern society. And then he was like,
(51:33):
what would happen if he was like completely present in his own childhood and what it would look like
in a modern society to have kids being raised away from technology and in a similar alternative
living situation. That's how he ended up making that film. What I think is really funny, well,
(51:53):
let's we'll do, have you looked at the budget in Box Office?
Yes.
So they're quite like relatively similar. So for The Glass Castle, the budget was nine million
dollars and it made twenty two million at Box Office. And Captain Fantastic, the budget was
five million and it made twenty three million at Box Office. And what I was going to say is
(52:17):
when I was looking into comparisons of these films, a lot of people, I think because it came out second
when Glass Castle came out and compared it to Captain Fantastic, but a lot of them said it looked
like a budget or B grade version of Captain Fantastic. So I love that Captain Fantastic
was actually done on half the budget. And it's like, yeah, this one's the budget Captain Fantastic.
(52:43):
Yes, that's about all the trivia. I think I did enjoy both these movies. I think I do like
Captain Fantastic better. I feel like almost with The Glass Castle, they could have made it darker.
I think there is a darker story there in the real life story. You know what I mean? And I think they
(53:04):
tried to make it nice and cutesy and happy in the end or whatever, even though there was obviously
a lot of stuff happening. And I think they definitely could have leaned further into the
darkness of it and made it quite a quite a dark, dramatic film. But I get each to their own.
(53:26):
Captain Fantastic, I think had dark moments, but overall was not made to be a dark film.
And I don't think it needed to be. I think it works how it is.
There were moments that were almost borderline Little Miss Sunshine.
I was going to say I had a Little Miss Sunshine vibe with more piling the boss and going on a trip.
(53:50):
Yeah, it was very much like I felt like Captain Fantastic is a movie I would like to watch again,
but not like tomorrow. I'm talking like 18, 24 months away.
I don't think I'd watch The Glass Castle again.
Yeah, it's just, I don't know, just
(54:14):
knowing it's based on a real person.
And you spend so much time with like just the cycle of abuse. I just don't find it as enjoyable
as a movie to watch. Yeah. So it wouldn't be like on the top of like, you know, two years from now
(54:36):
being like, Oh, do you want to watch a movie? Oh, you know, we haven't seen this in a while.
Yeah, yeah. Or it's kind of fantastic. We possibly would. Yeah.
Do you want to I also was thinking, which I wouldn't have been thinking this except that we
watched it yesterday. Through some of Captain Fantastic, I was thinking it would be a good
idea to watch it yesterday through some of Captain Fantastic. I was thinking it reminds me a little
(54:58):
bit of a single man. Yeah. There was just moments where you got glimpses of that same kind of I
think it's because it's from his perspective and he's trying to stay put together for the kids or
whatever, but is clearly, you know, dealt with a lot with his wife's death. Anyway.
(55:19):
If this is the first episode you're listening to, please go over to our website. It takes two dot
code dot NZ made by Lisa and Squarespace not sponsored. Maybe one day and you'll be able to
find everything. Our blue sky link, our discord link, where you can find all the other episodes,
(55:42):
our RSS feed and I hope you join us for 2025 and stick along where we bring out new episodes every
two weeks. And I appreciate every single one of you wherever you are listening to us ramble about
(56:03):
some movies you probably never heard of. Yeah, we need to do some more mainstream movies, I think.
Yeah, what was just for some reference folks, the most listened episode of 2024 was in fact
the Lion King and the horrible live action with air quotes remake. So we'll be taking that into
(56:28):
advisement. Yeah, we do. I mean, we do have more remakes planned, including more Disney remakes.
They will always pop back up because there are so many of them because they need to keep their IP.
Yes. We should watch that Winnie the Pooh movie where he's a bloodthirsty bear.
(56:48):
I mean, there's probably there's two Christopher Robin movies as well.
Thanks for sticking with us. We'll catch you next time. Bye bye.
Hi everyone, I'm Lisa. And I'm Nick. And you're listening to It Takes Two, the podcast
(00:23):
where two people take two movies with the same plot or premise and watch them discuss
them. Happy 2025. This is the first episode of 2025, starting the new year off strong.
These were thoroughly enjoyable movies. 2017 is The Glass Castle and 2016 is Captain Fantastic.
Yeah, I've seen these compared a lot. And I had seen Captain Fantastic before, but I'd
(00:48):
never seen The Glass Castle. So essentially, they're both about families with multiple
children where the children are being raised in an unconventional way by parents who are
kind of disillusioned with American capitalist society, essentially. And how that impacts
(01:13):
the kids and how they grow up. And, you know, in terms of like their education and how they're
treated physically and how they're treated mentally and what the relationship with their
parents are like, there's a lot explored in both movies.
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to sum up. I think going through the point of view of the person
(01:40):
you're following most in either of these movies, for Glass Castle, you're following Brie Larson,
who's playing because this is based on a true story for Glass Castle. Anyway, you're following
Brie Larson's character, who's the second oldest daughter, who's now a successful writer
in New York City. And it's basically you can't constantly getting like these flashbacks to
(02:06):
when she was a child. Woody Harrelson plays the dad, and he is a man with, as you said,
you know, the very distant franchise with, I would say moderning America because it like
if it's supposed to be 89 in the beginning of the movie, which I'm assuming based on
(02:30):
the way that it was filmed is current. Kevin Fantastic is a little bit more modern. He
talks about his army like his military history. So I'm assuming it would have been Korea.
Yeah, yeah, probably makes sense.
(02:50):
Oh, Strada wants to get inside. And Kevin Fantastic, you're following, he's looking
at us through the window. You're following through from Ben Cash, Viggo Mortensen's character
as the sort of main point of view. And each of his kids sort of have like bit parts, but
(03:14):
they've got their own story where I think the other one is very much like how her childhood
affected. I think it's Angela Wells.
Jeanette is the main daughter.
Jeanette Wells, yeah.
Who's?
Walls. Is it Walls?
No, it's Walls.
Walls.
Walls.
Sorry. Yeah, Jeanette is the main daughter.
(03:37):
So I think weirdly, because I often struggle to remember the names of characters films,
but I think I actually remember the kids names in both films. So I think in that one, it's
Laurie, Jeanette, Brian and Maureen. And then in the other one, Bodavon, Vesper and, what's
(03:57):
her name? I was going to say Kaiser. That's not her name. Something similar. No, I can't
remember if we get any other twins name. No, no, I've now I've forgotten them, but I was
remembering them. The two youngest are Zaja and Nye.
Yeah, that's correct.
(04:18):
Those are the kids that are, or Rellian?
Rellian.
Yeah. So it's literally one kid who I'm forgetting is the other twin.
Yeah.
What is her name? Keto? They all have made up names.
I will spell it out for you. K-I-E-L-Y-R.
K-I-E-L-Y-R. Keeler?
(04:39):
Okay.
I can't remember them. I don't remember them saying it much. They say the other kids names
quite a bit. Ironically, two of the kids, the two youngest, Zaja and Nye, the actors
who played them also played two of the kids in the other movie, in The Glass Castle, at
(05:01):
different ages, but they played Maureen and Brian at different points in their life. So
I thought it was interesting that not only are these films that are compared a lot of
they were released a year apart and they deal with similar topics. I don't think they're
super the same, but I can definitely see why they're compared. But the fact that they also
(05:22):
have the same child actors, cast as the kids, it's like, oh, okay.
Talk about being typecast.
And also a lot of redheads in both.
Yeah. It's a very fascinating, both of them are very fascinating stories.
I think what I feel like would be a good thing to talk about and compare is the characters
(05:47):
of the fathers. I know that the father isn't the lead role or it's not through his perspective
in The Glass Castle, but I think talking about the father in both films and the arcs they
follow and the kind of character development they get is an interesting way to compare
these movies because obviously one of them is a real life story. So they can only take
(06:13):
so many creative liberties with it. And sadly, that's the one where the father does not have
a very positive character arc. But it's a very pervasive, true to life, real story of
a cycle of abuse. Whereas in Captain Fantastic, he is also in both movies. So in both movies,
(06:37):
the father seems to mean well and love his kids, at least in the beginning, but unintentionally
is putting them through physical abuse and psychological abuse. Certainly, I think in
The Glass Castle more so because like that there is a cycle of abuse. I think in Captain
(07:04):
Fantastic, because we're seeing it from his point of view, we're not seeing it as abuse
until like other people pointed out and he suddenly wakes up to the fact that actually
what he's been doing is not healthy for his kids. But in Captain Fantastic, he then changes
and finds a balance, which is not something that happens in The Glass Castle.
(07:26):
It's interesting because I think previously too, I think my outlook on both of these movies,
not so much Glass Castle, but very much on Captain Fantastic. Recently in New Zealand
(07:47):
News, there is someone who is very much like him running around. For those who don't know,
because I was thinking about this when we were, well, I think after the movie finished,
New Zealand has the same approximate population as Ireland. Ireland landmass wise is a much
(08:11):
smaller country. Yeah, it's about one third the size.
And there is a lot of New Zealand that is not uninhabitable. It is just not productive
to metropolis style living. Auckland contains about one more than one fifth of New Zealand's
(08:38):
entire population. I can't remember the exact numbers. I probably looked them up. I think
it's like 1.5 million people live in Auckland or Auckland district. I think it's getting
closer to the 2 million. 1.7, 1.8. So there is a vast percentage of New Zealand
who live exclusively in Auckland. But in saying that you're talking about 5.8, whatever we're
(09:00):
at now, 8 maybe. I'm not even 100% sure. Yeah, around that.
I was like four when I was a child. Yeah, same in Ireland. Populations go up.
So there is currently a man on the run from the law with his kids living somewhere in
(09:21):
New Zealand to the point where he was filmed by pig hunters recently, which made the national
news and I went through his entire Wikipedia page and looked all into what was going on.
Basically, he's disenfranchised with New Zealand and the government and policing and society
(09:42):
and has taken his, I think it's two, I think he's got two kids and they are living rough
in the wilderness, but he's doing a bunch of theft along the way and stealing things,
which is why the police want to see him. Obviously, endangerment of his children.
Both of those are things that happened in both of these movies.
Yeah, 100%. And I thought it was very relevant. So even New Zealand being quite a small country,
(10:08):
but because of how our population density outside of the major cities is very low, people
can just literally will not disappear. But yeah, I mean, infamously, there was a guy
who was on a hike, as they call it, they call them tramps in New Zealand for people who
don't know them. But a hike on Stewart Island, which is the third major island of New Zealand.
(10:35):
And by major island, I mean, it's like very small compared to the other two islands. And
COVID happened. And the guy continued to hike around like three weeks or four weeks or something
and arrived back in the in the only town on the island and was like, Hey, what's going
(10:55):
on? And everyone's like, what do you mean? We're all in lockdown. He's like, what does
that mean?
It happened to a deerstalker as well. I don't remember where, but he was like out and about
doing his thing. For those who aren't, don't know, which is probably the vast majority
is in New Zealand, you only go home when your second set of clothing is wet. So it can be
(11:20):
weeks. And yeah, this guy just like rocked up and the police were like, mate, what are
you doing? And he's like, what do you mean? It's like we're in a lockdown. He's like,
what? It's like, I gotta go to the grocery store.
Yeah, like a proper dystopia. These people who are just, you know, in the in the bushland
doing their own thing. And then they're like, oh, society has come to a standstill.
(11:47):
And it is very, it's very interesting because I think we see Glass Castle happens over many,
many years. So they're literal children. I think the earliest actor was like playing
Brie Larson's character at eight. So if it's 1989, 1981.
(12:08):
Yeah. And at that point, it was the youngest Maureen was a baby. Yeah. So it is very interesting
in comparison to yet Kevin Fantastic, which tends to happen over a couple of days, maybe
a week from the movie point of view. Yeah, because they say it's at the beginning. I
(12:31):
think we I think we get to see two or three days at the beginning. And then he gets the
phone call saying that it's five days to the funeral. Yeah. Which is what the whole thing
hinders around that. Yeah. So it's probably a week or a little over a week that most of
it happens because there is obviously at the end, the ending of it is there's a little
bit of a time skip, but it's like probably months at most. Yeah. It's it's very interesting.
(12:57):
Like I thoroughly enjoyed Captain Fantastic. I think the acting from all characters was
really solid. Yeah. The motivation seemed real. It's funny because like Glass Castle
is based on a true story. And I didn't like I didn't like any of the characters in it.
(13:19):
Yeah. Rex Woody Harrison's character is an abusive father who has these grand ideals.
And obviously, he's a very intelligent man. Yeah. In both cases, they're at the father's
very intelligent. And yeah, it's it's very interesting because I think the big revelation
(13:40):
in Glass Castle comes when they move in with her with their grandparents. Yeah. Also something
that happens about. But in in the Glass Castle, like she's grown up with this dad who is really
intelligent, totally disenfranchised with society and capitalism and all the rest and
(14:03):
like racism and like if it wasn't for the alcoholism, he would probably be like a decent
father. Yeah. So this is it. So she so certainly at the beginning of the movie, it's clear
that he loves his kids. He's doing this for his kids. He's trying to build them this perfect
(14:24):
house that he wants them to all have. He has this dream that he has for them. But it gets
hindered by, as you said, alcoholism and the realities of life that like they are squatting.
So they do. Police do show up and they are stealing sometimes or they are running a con.
(14:46):
So they do have to keep moving. And then they end up. Is it after she got no, because it's
after a time skip. I was going to say that after she got burned, but it's that's right
at the beginning. Yeah. It's later on in it. I can't remember what the what the reason
was that they end up going to the grandparents house. But he turns into a different person
(15:08):
instantly. Like his whole he just like closes in on himself and shuts down. And they don't
even have to tell you anything about his parents before you go. I know what this is like. Like
it's so clear in Woody Harrelson's body language and in the way that he just like because I
mean, it's a running joke throughout the movie almost that he talks so much. He just keeps
(15:29):
talking and when he's there, he's just like almost quiet. His personality is just shut
down. And then you see the grandmother slaps one of the kids and the kids get outraged
about it. But then he's like, no, respect your grandmother. And that's and then that's
all he'll he'll say about it. And then there is a later moment where they're back with
(15:54):
the grandparents and one of the kids is molested by the grandmother and the kids again all
pile on. But when the dad gets back, he he was like, no, I don't I don't need to hear
what happened. You know, you shouldn't have done it. We'll go. And I think it's like,
I mean, it's heavily implied. And I but I think they can't say it because it sounds
(16:18):
like the real person doesn't know if it actually happened or what the real story is. But clearly
the father was abused at least like physically by his parents and potentially sexually. Yeah.
And it's really yeah, it's really eye opening to go. Oh, OK. This guy is trying to do what's
(16:40):
right for his kids and trying to be loving to his kids, but also trying to deal with
this trauma and also being a victim of a cycle of abuse that he is incapable of breaking
out of. So he becomes abusive because that's the parenting he knows. Even when he's like
he shows his kids way more actual like love and interest for a lot of it than his parents
(17:06):
ever seem to show him or show the kids. But it doesn't excuse the fact that then he is
also abusive. It's very interesting because like the concept of the new normal, it's human
beings are very adaptive as a species and we can adapt to any situation. And I feel
(17:31):
like especially with Rex and the Walls family, they literally just like disappear. There's
no school. There's no like, you know, it's usually a cycle of them arriving in a new
place. Rex, Woody Harrelson's character talking up a big game about it, how they're going
(17:51):
to do all these cool things and like, you know, don't worry kids, you know, blah, blah,
blah, we're going to do this and do that and rah rah rah. And then he finds some job because
it's implied that he constantly like, you know, he's moving from place to place just
getting random jobs. And then because of his alcoholism, they end up losing his job and
(18:14):
then the, you know, the bills pile up and they have to bail. And it is so normal for
the children that they don't argue. They just all pile in the truck and disappear again.
And that's how they do the time skip one of the times is that like they're piling the
truck and he's like, don't worry, this is the last time we'll do this. And then when
the door opens, they're, you know, a few years old, they're five years older or whatever.
(18:35):
And it's just like, oh, I think that's very different comparison with Captain Fantastic
because they've moved around a lot when the kids were a lot younger. Yeah. But I think
it was like, I don't remember, maybe 13, did he say 13 years that they've been living and
wherever they're living? Possibly. Yeah. And, you know, it was the only reason that their
(18:59):
entire this entire arc of story has happened is because spoilers, big spoilers for the
first 30 minutes of the movie. The mother, the mother of the family was in hospital due
to a neurological condition, which was bipolar. And then on her low, she ends up committing
(19:21):
suicide. And that's why they, you know, he's just like, nah, you know, we can all grieve,
but we're moving on. We're staying here. And then it's like, you know, you can't come to
the funeral and blah, blah, blah. And it sort of leaves them on this big mission into society.
And it's like, I think up to the point of the mother dying, they were pretty well, like
(19:47):
doing pretty well for themselves. Yeah, they're very self-sufficient. Yeah. And it's, it's
the big difference is like actual planning, I think, because you see in Glass Castle that
he's got this idealism that he he's like, this is how it will be. And you're all going
to learn, you know, the kids don't need to go to school because they're learning from
(20:08):
experience, but he's not actually like, he hasn't come up with an actual concrete plan
to give them experience that'll help them learn. You know, like there's, there's a swimming
lesson where he's just throwing her in the pool repeatedly and traumatizing her. And
it's like, this is how you learn to swim. No, it's not. Whereas in Captain Fantastic,
they do, you know, they do endurance sports, they do combat, hand to hand combat, they
(20:34):
do, you know, they're doing like rock climbing and running and they do it all together. They
do music, they do, they learn science, they have a signed reading that he's giving them
at their, at their level. And sometimes they're, you know, trying to skip a head of grade
and read a bit about that. When they ask him questions, he gives them like actual answers.
If one of them wants to do something differently, he says, okay, you know, let's do have a debate.
(20:57):
You give me your arguments and we'll see, you know, why you want to do this. And he's
really trained his kids in critical thinking and he's trained them in survival skills.
And, you know, and it's clear that they had a plan and that they have been educating them.
They're living in the woods, but they have all these books, like just, they have, have
(21:17):
like a huge library of different reading levels so that the kids can read appropriately. And
they do have societal rules, such as wear clothes when we're eating. But also like the
kids can hunt for themselves. They know how to, how to hunt a deer and, and how to do
everything around it. They're planting their own plants, they're running their own garden,
(21:40):
they're collecting water and, you know, and watering their plants. And he is, you know,
him and his wife, presumably up to this point have really trained them in, or really actually
educated them in like a whole wide range of things. And there is a sequence later on when
they're, when they're visiting his sister or her kids.
God, that was so amazing.
(22:01):
Where she's saying, you know, your kids need to go to school to learn about the world.
It wasn't even just that. It was the, so I want to talk about the scene in depth because
it's just such a, like, it's just a giant middle finger. Like I envy that lifestyle.
(22:22):
Yeah, yeah.
But at the same time, I'm incredibly lazy and I also like modern comforts of like, you
know, how do I get hot water? I turn the tap on. How do I, you know, light something? I
flick a switch. You know, I love playing video games. I love movies. I love, you know, all
the little stupid expensive hobbies that I have. I agree with the convenience and laziness
(22:50):
of modern lifestyle. But at the same time, there is that primal lizard brain in me that
wants to abandon society and go live in the woods and live sustainably off the land.
This is like a guidebook on how to do it.
Yeah, pretty much. Like it's, so the kitchen's, the whole sequence, you know, he turns up
(23:14):
with his sister-in-law's house.
No, it's his sister.
It's his actual sister.
Yeah, it's his sister.
She turns up at her sister's house with her husband and her two kids, her two boys. And
there's this moment of like, you know, oh, how did you kill the chicken? And the mum's
(23:38):
like, the sister's like, I bought it.
Also, like right before that, she is considering his lifestyle and his ideals because she made
sure that there isn't any processed food in the table, that it is all like organic food.
You know, like she has taken into consideration what he wants. We do see another scene where
(23:59):
they go to like a diner and he's like, this isn't real food. We can't eat any of this.
So yeah, I just want to say like, she is actually thinking about it.
I think that is the only moment of obvious abuse because he is very much up to that point
in the movie, up to the diner scene. So I'll jump back to the thing, but you brought up
(24:21):
a very valid point. He is talking about the fact that they're able to make their own choices
based on their wants and their ideology. And they're in a diner and this is obviously not
the normal. And he refuses all the children's wants because they're all like, oh my God,
there are things on this menu. Like, can we get hamburgers? Can we get pancakes? And he
(24:44):
rejects all of that and makes them leave. Yeah. But that is almost borderline against
his own philosophy that he's taught the children.
Well, here's the thing, because what do they do next? They go to the supermarket and they
steal. So I think... That is the most amazing con of like, oh,
I'm getting the hardest kick and all the kids are like...
I think the implication is that he's telling them, no, he is breaking down philosophy because
(25:09):
he says, don't tell lies. He doesn't lie to his kids. He's telling them it's because there's
no food on the menu. I think he doesn't have the money to afford it.
It's probably true. Yeah. I think it's that he literally, when they start talking about
all the different things they want to get, he's like, I can't buy those. Because then
he brings them and they steal food. Yeah.
(25:30):
You know, and he turns it into a game or a mission for them. But it is, you know, gamifying
the fact that he literally can't afford to feed them.
But again, it's also the fact that he wasn't telling his children the truth.
Yeah. So he is still going against his own philosophy.
The kitchen, the dining room sequence. Yeah. So he gets offered some wine, I think his
(25:54):
youngest, second youngest also requests wine. And he's like, sure. And like, but it's this
lead up of like the fact that the sister is telling her kids absolute bullshit. She's just
like, oh no, that, you know, on the husband as well as...
Yeah, it's mainly her husband. Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, sick people go to hospital
and sometimes they, you know, they die. Because they ask how their aunt died.
(26:17):
Yeah. And then he turns around and is just like, no, she had, you know, explains medically
what was wrong with her, what caused the illness and why she's dead. And the fact that she
spoils, sorry, spoilers and triggering, she commits suicide.
And his kids are perfectly fine with it. They're like, yeah, this is the truth. Like the other
(26:42):
kids are like so horrified. They're confused. The sister obviously is, it's interesting
because like part of the, like, you know, it jumps into it a little bit later on in
another sequence. But this concept that like one of the things that society teaches us
(27:03):
to, especially for men, is showing emotion is weakness. And it is very much so in the
juxtaposition between the kids, the different kids life, you know, it's talking back to
their mom, playing violent video games, not understanding things, being confused that
(27:30):
there's no like logo worship within the family. There's not like this breed of capitalist
ideals is like completely lost on them. The fact that when they mentioned Nike, the brand,
they're talking about the Greek or Roman god, I can't remember which one it is.
Roman, I think, Nike.
(27:52):
Yeah. And it's just like, it's like Ernie Daz. It's like, what is that?
And then when they tell them like it's shoes, they're like, oh, okay.
It's even though like I'm turned into a crackhead, like it's not a crack. It was like, what's
crack? It's like, oh, it's a crystallized form of cocaine. It's horrible. It was introduced
to the inner city and the implications of like the fact that when the kids ask a question,
(28:16):
they actually get an answer. And it's so poignant in the next scene where like the sisters
explain to them like the kids need to go to school. And it's like, why? Oh, so they can
learn about stuff, learn about the world. So he brings her kids down and ask them what
the bill of rights are. And neither of them can tell them. And he brings like his eight
(28:39):
year old daughter down and is just like, what's the bill of rights? And she starts reciting
it. And then he's like, no, no, I want you, I want to hear your own words, a salvation
of what it means. And then she's able to do that. The sister is like, no, we get it. Yeah.
And she's like, sorry, very impressive. And then she's like, don't dismiss the kid. The
(29:00):
kid did a really good job.
It's just like, what did I say to you? I think getting schooled in your own kitchen. Yeah.
It's such a brutal life.
But then she does also have a point. It's just that she's not making the right point.
Yeah.
But I think the grandfather makes it more. And also the kids make it to him, which is
(29:21):
that it's not that they don't have academic knowledge because they have leaps and bounds
in academic knowledge. Like they're so good at academics. So it's that they have no real
world experience.
It's socialism. It's not socialism.
It's socialism. They know about socialism.
Yeah. No, it's socialization.
(29:41):
Yeah. Because they've only socialized with each other. And they haven't. I mean, I think
it's great because he really makes an effort that they do everything as a family and that
they make decisions as a family and that they do all their activities as a family. So he
is doing that socialization, but they're not getting to meet other kids their age, not
getting to meet people of different ages. They're not getting to actually learn what
(30:06):
life is like outside of their bubble.
And it is very obvious with the older son, because when they go into town before they
get the news of the mother passing away and he's obviously selling artisanal handmade
birdhouses, which is like good on him for like a side hustle.
Yeah. It's how he's getting the money for the few bits of actual money they need.
(30:33):
And he phrases when he bumps into girls his age, because he doesn't know how to socialize
with them. And he's like, you know, fantastic physical form, very educated, like he would
be to most girls of his age group, a very attractive young man.
(30:56):
Incredibly intelligent. He got into every school.
He got into every big names college in the United States without going to a school.
It's the moment where he sneaks away, he gets the letters that have been addressed to him
and it is literally opens one after the other and they're all Ivy League schools and they're
all like, we'd be happy to please like, please we have been accepted, which then he hides
(31:20):
from his father. It's not until he meets, I don't remember the actor's name, Starlight
from the Boys, who's like, her name is Claire in the movie.
She's very whiskey tango. Reminds me of girls I used to meet and talk to when I went to
(31:43):
campsites at that age, were maybe younger than Bo's age. You know, the smoking and the
drinking at very young ages, you know, that kind of thing. And yeah, the first time they
kiss he's like on his hands and knees in front of his mother, her mother, Claire's mother,
(32:05):
proposing to her in the most philosophical and awkward, cringy way possible to the point
where they just laugh because, you know, they're not real people at that point.
The other thing is like before that, when he's just talking to her, there's a very funny
moment where he is lying through his teeth. So he knows that where they've come from is
(32:31):
not normal. And he knows that he's going to sound weird if he explains the actual situation.
So he makes something up. But because all of his experiences through like these novels
that he's read, he's like, oh yes, we've come from France and my father's doing a dissertation
on Dr. Spock. And she's like, oh, I love Star Trek. He's like, what? And then she's like,
(32:55):
oh, you know, and he explains the Dr. Spock he's talking about. And then she's like, no,
I met like that old TV show. He's like, oh, oh yeah, I've seen that one. I love it.
And then his mum works for him. She's like a secret agent with the government. Yeah,
it's very interesting because they do not have any socialization with children or people
(33:23):
their own age. And it really shows when like they're at the bank, that moment when they're
in the bank is just like, these people are sick. It's like, what do you mean? It's like
they're all fat. It's like, you can't say that out loud. They live a different lifestyle
to us. You can't say that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very sad. Sorry to go back to the glass castle
(33:49):
because it just is like Rex, Woody Harrelson's character wants nothing but the best for his
kids. Yeah. And just does it the most worst way possible. And even up to the point where
she asks him to stop drinking and he goes through horrific alcohol withdrawal. And you
(34:18):
know, you're like, oh, now they're on track guys, don't worry. And then instantly the
first point in time where he faces something he can't deal with, he just instantly goes
back to drinking again. And it is really sad if anybody facing addiction to, you know,
end up in that situation. And it does happen. People revert all the time. Like as a nicotine
(34:44):
addict myself, it is the amount of times I've gone through quitting and relapse and quitting
and relapse and quitting and relapse, especially when I was smoking cigarettes. It's, you know,
it's about changing your lifestyle rather than changing the habit. You have to find
something to replace the habit. And yeah, I will fully admit that, you know, the first
(35:10):
time you come across something you can't emotionally deal with, it always ends up back to your
vice again. And it's very sad watching, you know, the sort of all the dreams that he's
building his kids up on sort of just come crashing down again. To the point where in
(35:30):
the movie, there's a moment which I thought was probably the saddest and really hammered
home the kids sort of loss of the delusion loss of hope is when they first like the what
was it $15 a month and by the end of the year, they own the house for the place they end
(35:51):
up settling in last. He's like talking about laying the foundations for their dream home,
this thing that he's been building and doing the all the architectural design for over
all this time. And like getting his kids input and like, you know, talking about a solar
farm and you know, the glass and you know, the foundations that they dug years later
(36:17):
are literally the trash heap. Yeah. And that is like the moment where Brie Larson's character
is it actually Brie Larson? Yeah, when she's a teenager. Yeah, it's just very much like
yeah, this is this is never gonna happen. Yeah. And it is him that steals her money.
(36:39):
Yeah, I think that's implied. Because a lot of their issues come down to the financial
drain that is his alcoholism and gambling later on as well. I think the worst scene
would have to be like we're the youngest wakes Brie Larson's character up. Well, not so yeah,
(37:04):
it is Brie Larson's character up, but she's not Brie Larson yet. Angela, Angela, Jeanette,
Jeanette, sorry. Thank you. Jeanette up and says I'm hungry and what she does is mix butter
with sugar. Yeah, the child has something palatable to eat. And the mom person is like,
I was going to make that to make you know, use it for making bread. It's like you know,
(37:26):
when are you going to do that? Oh, in a couple of days. Yeah, I think it is heavily implied
that the mother has severe mental health issues. Oh, yeah. Well, John, we see the case in both
movies. Yeah. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if she also was bipolar. Yeah.
Um, she reminds me a lot of there's definitely some hoarding and going on as well. Yeah,
(37:52):
but she she really reminds me of Andy McDowell's character in made. And who again, is it like a
mother of a of an abused person who's breaking the cycle of abuse and where she is, yeah, very
eccentric and erratic and an artist and living a nomadic lifestyle and loves her kids, but is
(38:20):
never quite there for them and never is there to support them and back them up when they're facing
abuse. And I think that's yeah, there's she really reminds you of that character. I know she's based
on a real person and the other character isn't but it's yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if it was
if it was bipolar disorder that she had as well or borderline personality disorder potentially.
(38:44):
Because this is that moment of him being like, Oh, you want food? Fine, I'm gonna take all the
money we've got and I'm gonna get food and turns up 10 hours later, like having been in a fight.
Yeah, you assume it's a fight and he seems to be drunk. Yeah. Yeah. To the point where he says I'm
so pickled, I won't be able to feel it and then gets his daughter to sew his arm up. Yeah.
You know, it's not normal. And he's drinking while she's doing it and there's no food that he's
(39:09):
brought back. Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting because I remember, you remember the Alaskan
Bush People show that I was watching? Yeah. Yeah, which is reality TV, a little bit only dramatic.
But again, that sort of lifestyle of like, let's live in the wilderness and only go to society when
(39:32):
we need to. Yeah. And, you know, those are on paper. I think like I remember reading about it
and they were like the you know, some of the stuff they did on that was like made for the show and
like very hammed up but like, again, the kids and that show weren't very socially adept.
(39:54):
It was very interesting, interesting little sort of reality TV gleam.
Very much very similar to what we're discussing. End of the movie, I guess,
or the themes at the end of the movie, I guess. Well, I mean, going back to what I was saying
(40:15):
earlier about the dads. Oh yeah. I think towards the end of the movies, Rex, Woody Harrelson's
character has gotten worse. Yeah, 100%. As the movie progresses, he gets less idealistic and more
abusive. Yeah. By the end of the movie, he's like showing up at her, showing up and announced at her
(40:39):
engagement party to a guy that he doesn't approve of because he wants to borrow money from her.
And it turns out that they could have had money the whole time. They just chose not to sell some
money that her mother had inherited. And then he gets very sick. And then suddenly it's like
just highlighting all the positive moments in her life with him. And it's like, yeah, but he still is
(41:03):
very abusive and worse and worse as your life went on. There's a point where they like uproot
and then move to New York and escort him in like an abandoned place. And yeah,
that's like, talk about like not giving in to your, you know, your one kid who's just like,
you know what, fuck this, I'm out. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very interesting. Well, her and her older
(41:31):
sister and the brother all got out one by one. Yeah. Whereas then in Captain Fantastic,
you know, they. Crashed the mother's funeral because he's been told by her dad that he'll
get him arrested if he shows up because they believe that his lifestyle is what drove her to
(41:51):
to suicide. And there's huge arguments in the grandparents' file for custody
because one of the kids runs away to their house because he's the rebellious kid who doesn't want
to be a part of it anymore. And they the rest of them want to rescue him. And in the process,
Vesper, one of the twins, gets really severely injured and almost dies. And it's a wake up call
(42:16):
for Ben, isn't it Ben? That actually, you know, what the grandfather said is correct that by
putting his kids through all of this physical, physical, physical pain, you know, they're not
by putting his kids through all of this physical, you know, just the amount of training they go
(42:37):
through. It's like almost like military training, you know, that it is actually
almost abusive, it's borderline abusive. And I mean, they're happy to go along with it. Yeah. But
I mean, the kid, I forgot his name again. I was going to say Rogelian. That's not right.
Whatever his name is. Rogelian. The one who gets rebellious and runs away. There was a moment of
(43:02):
abuse with him earlier because he slipped doing rock climbing or abseiling and injured his hand.
And then the dad was like, well, no one's going to magically appear and help you. So what do you do?
How do you get out of the situation by yourself? And, you know, and he's a kid. You should be going
and helping him. Like you should be getting him out of that situation and treating it and, you know,
(43:26):
whatever. So that, I think that part was abusive. I don't think it was intentionally abusive,
but abuse isn't always intentional. And I think it's when this, when his other kid gets injured,
that he really goes, they're right. This isn't the way to do it. And he initially relinquishes
(43:47):
custody of the kids, but that the kids want to stay with him. So he finds a middle ground.
So they're still doing, they're planting, they're still doing their reading and their music,
but they're also going to real school at the end. He finds a way for them to be able to get integrated
into society, get the education that they need from, you know, the way other kids are getting,
(44:13):
but still get to do, you know, learn how to be sustainable and self-sufficient.
And I think he grows a lot. He, like by the end of the movie, he has really seen,
you know, where there were problems in his behaviour and how he can fix those. And he's
worked with the kids and he has a better relationship with all the kids by the end of the movie,
which is not the case in The Glass Castle, where like, yeah, they patch it up a little bit because
(44:38):
he's dying. And, you know, and after he passes away, they have a Thanksgiving where they talk
about like fond memories of him, but he still left horrible scars on these kids, you know,
and it's figuratively, figuratively and literally, because he, because one of them is she got
horrifically burned as a child because her parents didn't want to look after her, didn't want to
(45:02):
help her and just told her to go cook her own food. And she accidentally set fire to her dress
because she was like five or six years old or something or like, and it's horrible. And he
was like, it's horrible. Yeah. So emotionally scarred and physically scarred. And I don't know
(45:24):
what, what the real, you know, wall's life is like, but I hope that she has broken that cycle of abuse.
She's obviously well aware of it if she wrote the book that that movie is based on.
Yeah. But yeah, it's not, I mean, it's not easy. It's known as a cycle because it is.
(45:47):
Anyway, anyway, we'll move on to some trivia. Yeah. Let's go glass castle trivia first.
So it is based on true story, as we know, and they were often on the run for government,
usually hiding in small towns and living in poverty. Sadie Sink plays Laurie at one of the
(46:08):
ages, the older sister. And she was vegetarian at the time. And apparently Woody Harrelson and his
family are all vegan, which I didn't know. And she became very close to Woody Harrelson and was
inspired by his family and his lifestyle and is now vegan. Thanks for Woody Harrelson. So
(46:31):
this movie was originally supposed to be made in 2012 and they had a different lead actress signed
on. It was supposed to be starring Jennifer Lawrence. Oh, interesting. But it went on for
ages pre-production because they couldn't get anyone to star as the father, as Rex. So she left
(46:53):
the cast and then Brie Larson joined the cast. And then Woody Harrelson joined the cast shortly
after Brie Larson did. It was just funny because then that would have been a reunion for Katniss,
Everdeen and Hamish, whatever, from the other names. Yeah. So it was originally supposed to be
(47:15):
Jennifer Lawrence, but then Brie Larson took it. Captain Fantastic, I feel like most of the trivia
is similarly to if you're watching Lord of the Rings, it is very much just Viggo Mortensen being
Viggo Mortensen. But the first thing is that Viggo Mortensen is partly the reason why it feels so
(47:39):
realistic, A Tree to Life, because he really wanted to pay attention to how their alternative
lifestyle worked and what it actually meant. But also Matt Ross, who was a writer in the film,
the director, isn't it? Yeah, writer and director. Yeah. Based some of that on his own childhood and
(48:02):
his own the way that he grew up, because he did grow up in alternative living situations.
So he was able to draw on that experience, living off the grid in a similar lifestyle,
not quite the same, but similar. And then do research on it. And him and Viggo made it very,
very realistic. So everything that they do is accurate to how you can live that kind of lifestyle
(48:25):
in that area. All of the actors playing the kids and Viggo went on a two-day survival trip and slept
together as a family in a hut that they built made of ferns and learned how to track and to start fire
with a bow drill. They did a lot of reading and they learned about the world's political systems.
So they, proper method acting, let's go on a little hiking trip and learn and do some reading.
(48:53):
So he also, Matt Ross has said that when Viggo agreed to do the role, he sent him an email
full of questions and notes and Matt Ross printed it out and it was 32 pages long for today.
So incredibly thorough. I think it worked for both of them, because I think it sounds like
(49:17):
Matt Ross was a person who wanted people, who wanted the statistic to detail and also
wanted to have the realism of the family having spent time together and Viggo Mortensen is clearly
the right person for that kind of a role. Viggo Mortensen also provided most of his own costume.
So like he has a Jesse Jackson shirt that he wears in it and that was because he had actually
(49:39):
campaigned for Jesse Jackson in 1988 and kept the t-shirt. The patterned red shirt that he wears
to the funeral. Which is also, by the photo, is probably what he wore in his wedding. Yes,
and it's also what Viggo Mortensen wore in his own wedding.
So Viggo Mortensen wore that to his wedding and then they have the photo of him wearing it to his
(50:00):
wedding to his wife in the movie and then he wears it to her funeral. See, that's just Viggo's clothes.
One of the things that I think is interesting is
Viggo Mortensen is so known for being how he is, that he hiked up, you know, that he did so
(50:21):
much stuff and he lived like Aragorn. I think people assumed he was being Viggo Mortensen
when they did the rock climbing scene. He decided he was going to stay on the rock face
instead of joining them for meal break so they would send sandwiches up the ropes for him.
But it turned out he was actually just really afraid and he didn't want to admit to anyone that
(50:43):
he just didn't want to look down. So he didn't want to go down and then go back up to reshoot.
He wanted to just stay there and not look down and have them send the food up to him.
And he only admitted it when they were doing press tours after the film was released and people were
like, what? But yeah, so then I just took another note about Matt Ross, which is that he conceived
(51:07):
of the film as a sort of a
new parent. He and his wife were new parents and he was questioning the choices they were making
as parents and wondered what would happen if he was like completely present in his children's
lives and thinking about how modern technology makes that difficult. And then he thought about
his own childhood and what it would look like in a modern society. And then he was like,
(51:33):
what would happen if he was like completely present in his own childhood and what it would look like
in a modern society to have kids being raised away from technology and in a similar alternative
living situation. That's how he ended up making that film. What I think is really funny, well,
(51:53):
let's we'll do, have you looked at the budget in Box Office?
Yes.
So they're quite like relatively similar. So for The Glass Castle, the budget was nine million
dollars and it made twenty two million at Box Office. And Captain Fantastic, the budget was
five million and it made twenty three million at Box Office. And what I was going to say is
(52:17):
when I was looking into comparisons of these films, a lot of people, I think because it came out second
when Glass Castle came out and compared it to Captain Fantastic, but a lot of them said it looked
like a budget or B grade version of Captain Fantastic. So I love that Captain Fantastic
was actually done on half the budget. And it's like, yeah, this one's the budget Captain Fantastic.
(52:43):
Yes, that's about all the trivia. I think I did enjoy both these movies. I think I do like
Captain Fantastic better. I feel like almost with The Glass Castle, they could have made it darker.
I think there is a darker story there in the real life story. You know what I mean? And I think they
(53:04):
tried to make it nice and cutesy and happy in the end or whatever, even though there was obviously
a lot of stuff happening. And I think they definitely could have leaned further into the
darkness of it and made it quite a quite a dark, dramatic film. But I get each to their own.
(53:26):
Captain Fantastic, I think had dark moments, but overall was not made to be a dark film.
And I don't think it needed to be. I think it works how it is.
There were moments that were almost borderline Little Miss Sunshine.
I was going to say I had a Little Miss Sunshine vibe with more piling the boss and going on a trip.
(53:50):
Yeah, it was very much like I felt like Captain Fantastic is a movie I would like to watch again,
but not like tomorrow. I'm talking like 18, 24 months away.
I don't think I'd watch The Glass Castle again.
Yeah, it's just, I don't know, just
(54:14):
knowing it's based on a real person.
And you spend so much time with like just the cycle of abuse. I just don't find it as enjoyable
as a movie to watch. Yeah. So it wouldn't be like on the top of like, you know, two years from now
(54:36):
being like, Oh, do you want to watch a movie? Oh, you know, we haven't seen this in a while.
Yeah, yeah. Or it's kind of fantastic. We possibly would. Yeah.
Do you want to I also was thinking, which I wouldn't have been thinking this except that we
watched it yesterday. Through some of Captain Fantastic, I was thinking it would be a good
idea to watch it yesterday through some of Captain Fantastic. I was thinking it reminds me a little
(54:58):
bit of a single man. Yeah. There was just moments where you got glimpses of that same kind of I
think it's because it's from his perspective and he's trying to stay put together for the kids or
whatever, but is clearly, you know, dealt with a lot with his wife's death. Anyway.
(55:19):
If this is the first episode you're listening to, please go over to our website. It takes two dot
code dot NZ made by Lisa and Squarespace not sponsored. Maybe one day and you'll be able to
find everything. Our blue sky link, our discord link, where you can find all the other episodes,
(55:42):
our RSS feed and I hope you join us for 2025 and stick along where we bring out new episodes every
two weeks. And I appreciate every single one of you wherever you are listening to us ramble about
(56:03):
some movies you probably never heard of. Yeah, we need to do some more mainstream movies, I think.
Yeah, what was just for some reference folks, the most listened episode of 2024 was in fact
the Lion King and the horrible live action with air quotes remake. So we'll be taking that into
(56:28):
advisement. Yeah, we do. I mean, we do have more remakes planned, including more Disney remakes.
They will always pop back up because there are so many of them because they need to keep their IP.
Yes. We should watch that Winnie the Pooh movie where he's a bloodthirsty bear.
(56:48):
I mean, there's probably there's two Christopher Robin movies as well.
Thanks for sticking with us. We'll catch you next time. Bye bye.
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