Must Listen to HR Podcasts: Corporate Pizza Party - Discussing Salary Negotiation

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Ever wondered how LinkedIn influencers turn likes into livelihoods, or why resumes are still a thing in the digital age? We've got you covered in this episode with the entertaining trio from the Corporate Pizza Party Podcast—Mike, Farrah, and Dan. Together, we tackle the quirks and questions of corporate and social media life with humor and honesty. Mike shares the origin story of their podcast, revealing how leveraging internet fame can lead to insightful and hilarious discussions about the absurdities of the corporate world. Warren might be battling a cold, but that won't stop the laughter and lively banter.

Join us as we dissect the world of social media personas who’ve found fame not through expertise, but through clever content creation. We introduce you to the likes of Roberta, whose LinkedIn popularity may not match the quality of her expensive resumes. Our discussion shifts from individuals to the broader culture of engagement bait and copy-paste narratives on platforms like LinkedIn. We also explore the often-overlooked complexities of HR work, dispelling myths and misconceptions about a field that often gets blamed for issues beyond its control.

But it's not all fun and games—we dive into serious topics too. The nuances of salary negotiation and the importance of transparent communication between recruiters and candidates are dissected with practical advice on how to navigate professional expectations in a changing workforce landscape. Whether you're curious about the generational shifts in workplace attire or the pitfalls of faux negotiation tactics, you'll find insights and humor in equal measure. So tune in, laugh along, and learn with us as we unravel the mysteries of HR, one "what the fuck" moment at a time.

Follow our guests!!!!
Corporate Pizza Party

• Website https://www.corporatepizzaparty.com/
• TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@corporatepizzapod
• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/corporatepizzapod

Farah Sharghi

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/farahsharghi
• TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@farahsharghi
• LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/fsharghi/

Mike Peditto

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/realisticrecruiting
• TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@realisticrecruiting
• LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpeditto/

Daniel Space

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/danfromhr
• TikTok

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Linktree - https://linktr.ee/jadedhr
Follow Cee Cee on IG - BoozyHR @
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write

(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.

Warren (00:49):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by five HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through the workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Oren.

Cee Cee (00:59):
I'm Cece.

Daniel Space (01:01):
Hello, we're the Corporate Pizza Party Podcast.
Thank you so much for having us, and I'm going to let Mike
introduce us, since he is ourfounder.

Mike Peditto (01:11):
Oh my goodness.
Hello, we are the CorporatePizza Party Podcast.
Thank you so much for having us, and I'm going to let Farrah
tell you a little bit about us,because she knows everything.

Farah Sharghi (01:22):
Well, thank you, Mike, for letting him run for
that wonderful introduction.
Hi everybody, I'm Farah Shargi,I'm the one-third of the
corporate pizza party and I am atechnical recruiter turned
career and job search coach.
And, yeah, my background is inengineering, finance and, yeah,
recruiting for companies likeGoogle, Lyft, Uber, TikTok and

(01:43):
the New York Times and advisingstartups.
So I'm going to bring it rightback to Mike.
Since you gave it to me, I'mgoing to bring it right back at
you.
So why don't you tell thelovely people here more about
yourself?

Mike Peditto (01:54):
Thank you.
My name is Mike.
I am the founder, as Dan said,of the Corporate Pizza Party
podcast.
What that means is we like tojoke that I am the Liz Lemon to
our Jenna Maroney and TracyJordan, of Dan and Farrah, who
need to be wrangled into allsorts of things.
I am known for creating jobsearch advice, mostly in video
format, on TikTok and Instagram.

(02:15):
You can find me at RealisticRecruiting, where I gained a
following very quickly afterlosing multiple jobs in a short
amount of time, currently sit asthe director of talent for Teal
, the AI resume company, and Ilike to mess with Dan a lot when
we record our podcast.
I like to let him come up withideas and then railroad them and

(02:36):
not get to any of them as werecord our show and that's my
role is making sure anything Danwants to talk about we do not
talk about, so today we probablywill let Dan talk about it once
, though, and I'll throw it backto him.

Daniel Space (02:48):
Thank you, yeah, that's pretty much exactly how
this goes.
For anyone who doesn't know me,I'm Daniel Space, also known as
Dan from HR, and I talk aboutjob search as one of the
elements, but also just howcorporate America works from the
HR perspective, and I try to doa mix of informing people so
they can be successful, as wellas debunking stupid advice that
people keep liking to take.

Warren (03:07):
Awesome and, if you don't remember, dan was a guest
approximately a year ago, Iguess, on the show Right about a
year ago now, and so he's back.
But now he's with his team, hiscorporate pizza party team.
And if you didn't catch thelast episode, which was the
first of this series, we'redoing a must listen to HR

(03:29):
podcast series, and so CC and Ihave scoured the podcast land
and we've picked a handful of HRpodcasts that we feel confident
saying this is one you've gotto listen to because there's a
lot of shitty ones out there andthere's a lot of corporate
shill ones out there.
And we put criteria, you know,and actually backing up even

(03:51):
further how this all started, atthe end of the year you always
have these top whatever podcasts, hr podcasts and Jaded HR has
been on a few of them, but onein particular last year stood
out because it was a list.
But the number two podcast wasthe creator of the list.
He lists himself and also on hislist he had podcasts which

(04:14):
hadn't been published in yearsand podcasts that were just
plain corporate shills.
You know, there's a couple ofHRS companies we'll name them
nameless that have a podcast outthere and it's like no, it has
to be something A I would listento, b has to be recorded
recently and C it can't be acorporate shill of a podcast.

(04:34):
So you all fit the criteriavery, very well.
You're funny, you'reentertaining.
I love it.
So, mike, you came up with theidea of Corporate Pizza.

Mike Peditto (04:44):
Party.
I did, and this actuallyreminded me I forgot in our
intro to mention that we wererecently named the top HR
podcast in the Corporate PizzaParty year and podcast rankings.
So we're very excited.
It's a one podcast list and wehave dominated it for two
straight years.
But yes, I did.
Here's originally what happened.
True story Dan and Farrah bothhad recently you know about a

(05:09):
year plus ago lost roles and wewere sort of talking and I was
like, oh, they have some freetime and they are far more
famous than me and have a lotmore followers on the internet
than me.
I'm going to ride their famewave as high as I can take it
and I'll just handle all thelogistics to make it work.
So it's like you guys want todo a podcast and then I never

(05:30):
really asked them to do any ofthe work to get it going so we
could do that and the CorporatePizza Party podcast was born.
Yes, All right.

Warren (05:40):
Well, one of the things that I really like about your
podcast and I'm sorry I'mstruggling listeners through a
cold which has attacked only myvoice.
I feel perfect.
My voice has been overused,especially today.
Meetings, orientation I've gotno break today.
But love when you starttrolling your victims.

(06:01):
And Dan, even before CorporatePizza Party, made a career at
this.
I've seen you all as well onInstagram.
Like I said, I'm not on TikTokany longer, but I've seen you
all do some things.
But I just love the callingpeople out for who they are and
what they're doing.
And the bad not only bad, someof it's just plain horrible

(06:25):
advice people are out theregiving in the HR realm whether
it's salary negotiation, whetherit's applying for a job,
whether it's fill in the blankjust really shitty HR advice out
there.
And yeah, I, I love it and Ilove when you go online and you,

(06:47):
you call these people out byname and things like that.
I, I kind of would like to dothat, but I don't have the, the
pedigree and background thaty'all have to to to.
You know, do that I'm.
I'm a small town person, smallbusinesses.
I've been involved in mybasically my whole career, so
it's it's warren, I assure youyou can be dramatic without a

(07:07):
pedigree.

Daniel Space (07:08):
You can bring the drama.
It doesn't have to be right, itdoesn't have to be true, it
just has to be entertaining,okay you don't need a pedigree
to be petty pedigree free.

Warren (07:19):
no, I'm talking about the companies.
Y'all have worked for, thethings y'all have done, your,
your online followers.
I can't't even, I don't evenknow the last time JTHR made any
social media posts.
I don't know, I'm so bad atthat type of stuff, but yeah,
y'all have got a good thinggoing on there.
Well, thank you.
So now are y'all moving now tobi-weekly recording?

(07:43):
From weekly recording, or whatis the?

Daniel Space (07:46):
I see some faces All of you to assume we have a
consistency war.

Mike Peditto (07:49):
Yeah, here's Okay.
So most podcasts, you know this.
I'm going to make an assumptionabout your podcast Record well
in advance.
Maybe you batch some episodesor whatever it might be.
We record on Friday and werelease on Wednesday.
It was originally Monday, itbecame Tuesday, it's currently
Wednesday and if anyone's busyon Friday, there's just no

(08:10):
episode that week and that ishow the Corporate Pizza Party
podcast works.
We are going to make an effortin the next coming years.
We're just about to hit our oneyear anniversary.
December 4th will be one yearof our first episode.
We're going to make an effortto actually batch records that
it is a regular weekly episode,but as of now it's weekly to
bi-weekly to you know when weget around to it.

Warren (08:35):
Okay, I'll take that answer.
What has been your favoritetarget to hone in?
Who?
I should say not what.
Who has been your favoritetarget to hone in on and just
light their asses on fire, Trollaway.

Daniel Space (08:52):
Lauren, you're messy, I love it.
I want to know.

Cee Cee (08:57):
His next gig is going to be hosting like Housewives
reunions.

Daniel Space (09:00):
Yeah he's great, he's all here for the drama.
He's like name the name, dropit.
Here we go.

Farah Sharghi (09:06):
And we know HR drama is the best right Like out
of all the dramas, HR is thebest drama.

Mike Peditto (09:13):
Best.
Farrah and Dan love to dropnames way more, so I would just
see who I'd lead with.
I think I know who's on theirmind, but let's see who they say
.

Daniel Space (09:21):
So I kind of started to evolve.
No-transcript never violatedany terms of service.
I just got brigaded by someonewho I made a funny comment on

(09:43):
one of their videos unrelated toHR.
So what I really wanted to dowas focus only on punching up.
So there were a few people thatI stitched that had smaller
accounts.
I felt really bad at one pointbecause there was this young
woman who had given reallyterrible advice about what type
of interview questions thingswere and I stitched it and said
this is terrible, these are notthose types of interviews, what
are you doing?
And all of my followers wentand left comments on her page
and she was like 22.
So I felt really bad becauseI'm like trying to scam people,

(10:07):
just what she knew.
So then I only started to gofor accounts that were bigger
than mine.
So, luckily, being banned man,I got to start from scratch.
So every account was biggerthan mine.
But my biggest ones were like Ican't stand Austin Belichick,
who's like the biggest careerinfluencer, like he is the
number one career influencer,okay, and he gives the worst
advice.
Erin Mago is one of my fanfavorites just because she has

(10:29):
fooled the entire world andeverybody loves her for it and I
think that that's we love thatfor her, despite the fact she's
never worked one day incorporations Vivian, you're rich
BFF just because she stealscontent and she often gives a
lot of misinformation,especially around salary
negotiation.
And the one thing that I justconsistently get so angry with
is this is people's money.
Like I could never if I didn'tknow how this works.

(10:52):
Like I could never go onlineand make content about saving
credit card fees or where toinvest your money, cause I don't
know that.
So the idea of someone comingon here with like being 25, 26
and saying, oh yeah, here's whatyou do to negotiate a sale Like
not knowing this is how peoplepay their bills.
This is the people's lives.
People get offers pulled byfollowing this information.
That's what fuels my desire toat least be really caustic.

Warren (11:14):
Okay, I like that.

Farah Sharghi (11:15):
Yeah, I think Dan stole a couple of my personal
favorites, because Vivian didactually Vivian stole from me
and I made a video where Ispliced it.
I had to take it down becauseher followers she had like two
or three million at the timelike came after me saying oh no,
that's not theft.
I'm like what planet are you on?
Like that?

(11:36):
You think that's not set?
I mean outright stole theentire video almost word for
word, added more and then danwas like what the fuck is this
anyway?
Oh, by the way, sorry forcursing, I don't know if you
guys curse on your.

Daniel Space (11:48):
You don't care so yeah, so yeah, definitely vivian
greg langstaff and his likethis is a 12 out of 10 resume
and I'm like this is bullshit.

Farah Sharghi (11:59):
Robin's story, I think, is one of our all-time
favorites.
So robin, now roberta storyagain.
We're not exactly sure why shechanged her name on linkedin,
but I think dan knows herhistory better than I do, but
she basically like tripled downduring the pandemic and got like
almost a million followers onLinkedIn.
She sells resumes for what?

(12:19):
Like $2,000?
Yeah, for one resume.
I cannot tell you $2,000.
That's stupid.
I cannot tell you how manyclients I have received where I
have reviewed.
I have gotten the Robin resumesand when I meet with them,
initially I go excuse me, butlike can I ask, is this a Robin

(12:41):
story or a storyline resume?
They're like, absolutely, I'mlike, yeah, I could tell that
level of bad and but what theydo is they do that whole hero
posting of like like you know,emotionally connecting with
someone and being likecorporations are not fair, blah,
I'm on your side, right.
And then, as a result of that,they get scammed out of their
money when they hire her to tohelp them with their resumes.

(13:02):
So you know, people like that Ijust absolutely cannot stand.
And then the one insulting guysobviously, obviously, jerry is
my favorite to troll.
It's just like these guys like,have some corporate experience,
but they were like interns.
I'm like you weren't even afull time employee.
I mean, you weren't even acontractor, you were like an

(13:24):
intern.
Like, if you're a contractor, Icould kind of get that.
But like, what do you know aboutmoving up the corporate ladder?
What do you know about hiring?
What do you know about movingup the corporate ladder?
What do you know about hiring?
What do you know aboutinterviewing?
You don't.
What are you talking about?
And now they've made they'vemade like buku dollars, millions
and millions of dollars off ofstuff that they don't know
anything about.
But they've been able tomanipulate the system by

(13:44):
starting several accounts,liking each other's stuff,
reposting stuff, and so it like,basically, you, you know, blew
up their own channels and sopeople started to trust them
more because they got verifiedand had all these followers.
And yeah, I mean you knowlather rinse, repeat.
But yeah, those are.
Those are some of my all-timefavorites to troll.

Cee Cee (14:02):
I'm just discovering more and more that none of it
has anything to do withexpertise and all of it has
everything to do with how goodof a content creator you are,
how good, what hashtags you use,like.

Daniel Space (14:14):
it has nothing to do with these people's actual
knowledge, which, as we'velearned, is mostly nothing,
nothing but we trust them and I,out of all of them, I give a
little bit of credit toOneSulting because I know I know
one of them worked at Googleand they were in product, so
they understood how to market aproduct.
They turned themselves to aproduct and, despite the fact
that I don't like any of theircontent and I've called them out

(14:34):
a few times, I'm able to holdtwo things at once that I don't
like the fact they scam people,but I'm impressed with their
business tactic of how they soldthemselves as a product.
They connected with collegestudents.
So they connected with peopletwo years out of college saying
we're under underdogs, just likeyou.

(14:55):
We couldn't get jobs either.
But now look at us.
We worked at google, we gotjobs at all at uber, we got jobs
at twitch, and college studentsand college graduates don't
know any better.
So they're like this guy isjust like me, he knows okay, I
guess I can spend 350 dollarsbecause he's just like me and he
has this fun discord server andthey make fun youtube videos
with mukbang, nicole'suniversity, saying, hey, we were
just like you.
But here's and they're sellingthis hidden sauce and everyone
wants that hidden sauce and it'sonly until you're a little bit
later in your career whereyou're like, wait a minute, this
, you didn't really actuallytell me anything that was.

(15:15):
That was really a value.

Warren (15:18):
Right, well, well, mike, I'll let you answer the
question.
I don't hear you trolling asmuch by.
I hear some of your reactionslike put, last week you fired up
all of Reddit or something.
So Like what?
Last week you fired up all ofReddit or something.
So how about you?
Who's on your target list?

Mike Peditto (15:35):
Yeah, you know, I think myself and I think
Corporate Pizza Party takes asimilar tone, a little bit
different than how Dan andFarrah are kind of talking about
people on here, in that I'muninterested anymore in going
after individuals for like badadvice or scamming people or
whatever.
I can't fight that fight.
It's not worth my time.

(15:56):
I see people get way too firedup over it and I think we've all
sort of like made that move forourselves a little bit.
And last year I used to getinto it with people a lot more
when I was kind of newer intothis and I started getting
called like a bully and I waslike I don't know if I am a
bully, but also I don't evenwant that to be what I'm doing.
I like to and I think whereCorporate Pizza Party really

(16:16):
comes in is less about like anindividual and more like this
whole idea.
And our favorite thing to bedoing on the podcast is like
reading these bullshit storiesLike I will call out on LinkedIn
all day the like copy and paste, like oh, she came in 15
minutes late to the interviewday.
They're like copy and paste,like oh, she came in 15 minutes
late to the interview.
Most people would have said no,but I found out that her car
broke down and she had a pawn itfor a bus pass and like it's

(16:38):
just like they like copy andpaste these and they all make
the same post.
Like I will comment or pointthat out all day, every day,
because that's less like a scamand more just like disengagement
bait stuff.
Yeah, and you know, last week wewent at it, that story that
went super viral, about a wholeHR team getting fired because of
an ATSR rejecting someone.

(16:58):
It's a fake story.
It was an anonymous Redditcomment that you know turned
into media everywhere and I likeI dug deep and I set up a fake
Reddit account and I basicallyjust like threw all sorts of gas
on this ridiculous fire tobegin with and was just like
messing with it there.
Greg Langstaff is one person Iwill go after every time.
I had to block him because hemade me very mad, so I'll just
drop that name.
But in general, like I you know, I think the three of us have

(17:21):
stopped these individual fightswith people because it's just
you can't win it, it's just it'spointless.

Warren (17:27):
No, it's not necessarily about winning.
It's about the fun, the battle,the game of it, sometimes just
reading the banter back andforth of it and and things like
that is I, I don't do it, Icouldn't do it.
I'm not as creative as y'allfor it, but I couldn't, you know
, call out someone.
I'm just, you know my linewould be you're full of shit and

(17:49):
that's sort of the end of my.
I wouldn't be able.
That's the end of story for mewith that.
But I do.
I have enjoyed, I have enjoyedlistening to seeing online and
things like that.
And, like I said, I'm not evenon LinkedIn.
Linkedin used to be one of myfavorite places to go to.
You know, waste time, if youwill, or do research and things
like that.
It's Facebook 2.0 right at thispoint.

(18:12):
Really, it is so bad right nowI just can't.
I can't.

Farah Sharghi (18:16):
But that's what all the tech companies do.
It's like oh look, TikTok's FYPis doing well, let's all create
the same thing.
Or TikTok shop is doing well,let's all like now have live
streaming shopping, like that'sgoing to be the new trend.
So everybody just copies oneanother and sees what sticks and
then they just like, somethings you know pan out and
others don't.
It just falls away.

(18:36):
But yeah, LinkedIn hasdefinitely become a bit of a
mess Something funny from the is.

Daniel Space (18:44):
As Mike said, I think all three of us at some
point over the last year or twodecided to kind of move away
from being call out accounts.
Occasionally we would do it,but we would also kind of take a
new approach.
I still love being reallysarcastic, so if I can be funny
with it then I'll do it, andespecially if I'm punching up.
But what's funny is that Ihaven't really been posting a
lot of content for the last fewmonths.
I've been launching somethingelse and I finally started to
get posting into more content.
And as people are seeing meagain, they're tagging me in

(19:06):
saying wait, is this valid?
Is this valid?
Is this true?
And so I got tagged in a videoabout four or five times with
this woman in a car saying, justto let you know, resumes do not
matter anymore, it doesn'tmatter what your resume is and
apologize to all resume writersRecruiters don't even look at
resumes, it's all about who youknow.
Networking is everything.
And I got tagged in that videolike three times.
And so then I commented andsaid, hey, no offense.
No offense to the OC.

(19:34):
This is common advice.
It leads to networking in thehidden job market, but there's
no evidence to suggest thatresumes are not important and
most hires are still made withthe resume.
And I was like all right, youknow this, this is not I'm.
I'm.
I'm not attacking her, I'm justgoing to it.
But people thought I was beingsarcastic.
They thought that this was likethe new version of me.
They had, like someone justsaid here comes Dan from HR, his
bully again.
I'm like.
I'm like, if you're going tocall me a bully, let me deserve
it, like I wasn't even mean.
She has 3000 followers.

Farah Sharghi (19:53):
Well, I think a lot of it is like sorry to
interject, but like I think alot of it.
Oh, like the reason why wedon't call out people anymore is
because what we call out othercreators.
They're like oh, hr is just abunch of assholes.

(20:16):
Look, they're being even biggerjerks.
We need to come after HR.
So they're not even listeningto us.
They're not even listening tolike, they're not being rational
, right.
It's kind of like behavioraleconomics when it comes to when
people buy and sell with theirown financial accounts, like the
markets are doing, well, oh mygod, I need to buy more.
So they're buy high, and then,when the markets go down, oh my

(20:37):
god, I'm gonna lose everything.
Then they sell low and then allthat money that they've saved
and accumulated over the yearsdoesn't grow appropriately.
So it's conceptually the samething and I think that's I know
that's one of the reasons why Istopped making those kinds of
videos.
It's like what's the point?
I'm just getting attacked allthe time and it leads to nothing
but like me expending my energyto trolls who are just, you

(20:58):
know, jerks on the Internet, whoare clearly unattractive and
not wealthy and have nothingbetter to do with their time
than to troll HR people.

Cee Cee (21:07):
No, thanks, I feel that way.
I've jumped into the commentsection, so I don't know why
this is a sticking point to me.
But whenever somebody mentions,oh, hr is doing their annual
performance review, they sayit's quote unquote, confidential
.
But we know that they can seeeverything and we're not like
that whole lore.

(21:27):
And I've jumped in the commentsection and I've been like
because I don't know why I'mpassionate, I don't know why
this is the thing for me.
There can be so many otherthings in the world that I could
, like you know, fight on a hillfor this, is it, I guess?
But like I'll go in there andpeople, as soon as I start to
spew, like okay, no, if yourcompany's doing through a third
party, you don't like blah, blah, people will then attack me

(21:50):
because I now am like the narccentral hr sent us all on the
internet with the same messageto just spread the propaganda to
everybody, right?
now I got the memo I get thedaily memo.

Daniel Space (22:04):
Yeah, I remember one of the first posts I had
made that had went a little bitviral and this was like early
2021, where I explained thedifference between on why a
manager could give acompassionate termination.
So, instead of a performancetermination, give them the
option to resign and still agreeto pay out unemployment, but
let them own the message andtake away the stigma and the
loss of dignity and the loss ofcontrol from a performance

(22:25):
firing.
And it went a little bit viraland like the number of comments
I got of people like, well, myHR raped my father's mother and
killed my dog in the head, I'mlike what does that have to do
with me?
Like I am not the personal.
I do not speak for all of thecentral HR.
We're not a hive mind, butpeople.
That is where people go.
They're like your HR.
Let me give you all of thebrunt of my frustration that's
both real and imaginary fromeveryone saying that that HR is

(22:47):
evil.

Farah Sharghi (22:48):
I made a video recently.
It's going viral right now andit's like how to maximize your
PTO.
So I made it last year.
I did it a few days ago, yeah,and it's great.
And what's hilarious is thecomments that I get are.
I mean, obviously it's going toget a ton of shares?
Why?
Because it's applicable to alot of people.
But you've got people inhealthcare, people working in
retail.

(23:08):
People are just like thisdoesn't apply to me.
Cries in retail, cries inhealthcare.
I'm like you chose yourprofession, I didn't choose it.
And then last year and thisyear, somebody wrote the same
comment.
They were like these people arecomplaining about getting bean
soup and there actually beingbeans in it.

Mike Peditto (23:26):
You remember the?
Well, it's the bean soup viralthing.
I mean it's main charactersyndrome.
It you remember the bean?
Well, it's the bean soup viralthing.
I mean it's main charactersyndrome.
It's all over the internet,right, it's all just like well,
that doesn't apply to me.
Like cool, then fucking scrollLike they're just like.
I don't know.
There's this video that wentviral a couple weeks ago and I
loved it.
It was so short and it was justlike this creator when, just

(23:50):
like if something, just likethere's no way you go through
the real world like that, justlike people say a general thing
and you have to prove that, likethat doesn't apply to you.
Like I don't know if you guysknow the bean soup story.
It's like an old, famous TikTokthing from a few years ago.
This creator showed like a meatfree this is where the bean soup
term came from.
It was like a protein heavybean soup for vegetarians and

(24:10):
people kept asking questionslike, oh, I don't like this,
like what could I do?
And like she would make a video.
Like, oh, you could substitutethis and then.
But there was like commentsthat were just like I don't like
beans, so like what I do, andlike she made a video where she
was just like I don't know, likeput meat in it.
Then, like I just like it'sjust, if you don't like bean,
then this bean soup recipe isnot for you.
It's just like keep moving on.

Cee Cee (24:34):
I was gonna say I don't think people got the memo that
you don't have to engage witheverything on the internet, like
you can scroll and just liveyour life, and you don't have to
engage.

Mike Peditto (24:46):
I can't make a video that applies to the 4
billion people on TikTok.
It just like, like doesn't work.
Like people are like oh well,this only applies if you work in
the US and I live in Europe.
Okay Well, there's videos aboutthe best restaurant in London
and I don't live there, so like,don't make those either, I
guess.

Daniel Space (25:04):
Exactly, exactly.
Now I am not above this, so Iwill say it's.
I've had to sort of monitor myown behavior and just kind of
give myself that mantra, like Idon't have to respond to
anything, I can disagree withthis and scroll on to the next
thing.
I do not have to engage.

Warren (25:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not.
My wife thinks I'm pathetic theway I do social media.
I'll make a post every now andagain where I've made more than
I have in a long time lately,but when I'm schooling, I see
your friends.
I just hit the like button.
She goes can't you just saysomething?
I'm like I just liked it,that's it.
I liked it, I moved on.
I didn't read any of thecomments.
I don't need the comments oranything like that.

(25:41):
So, anyways, you're a goodfriend, I just like Thumbs up.
So we had a topic we wanted todiscuss today and it is offer
negotiation, and we werediscussing before we got online.
This is like the perfect stormis unraveling around us with
this topic.
You know Christina from BakedHR, who's been on half a dozen

(26:05):
times on the podcast, just madea post on Instagram about her
frustration of people takinginfluencers advice when it comes
to this.
And so, as a recruiter, I spentthe first seven plus years of my
career recruiting.
I did fairly well at it, butthe first thing at my first job

(26:27):
I was virtually beaten into myhead was pre-close.
Your opening conversation endswith a pre-close.
You say okay, so you're lookingfor this type job, this
location, this salary, and getthem to confirm and say all this
so that when you come back tothem and you have an offer,
that's this job and it's thatsalary and you can use that

(26:49):
against them.
Essentially, no, that'll betaken out of context by someone,
but you use that information.
Hey, you, you, this is thesalary you told me you wanted.
We got 10 more, we got this.
That the other thing all right,you're ready to go and get them
all fired up and it ispre-closing a thing anymore is
where do where do we stand withthat?

(27:10):
Because I would have gottenprobably fired if I'd lost so
many candidates due to notpre-closing them and having my
information.
Okay, well, sally's looking for125K, wants to work in this
industry, in this area, and Ididn't pre-close her, so she
rejected our offer.

Daniel Space (27:30):
So I think and I want Farrah and Mike to take
over a majority of this becausethey're recruiters, so they live
this day to day.
But what I saw live happen waspeople took influencers' advice
who had no experience whatsoeverin HR, saying negotiate
everything and never give thenumber first, and the number
that they give you is theabsolute lowest, so you can
always go above.

(27:50):
And people took that to heart.
People listened to an AaronMcGill saying do this and then
saying it during the interviewand then getting an offer pulled
and then it makes the recruiterlook bad because they're like
we agreed on 130.
Why are you asking for 160 now,like everything just looks bad.
So I think Farrah and Mike canabsolutely manifest how that
works as recruiters.

(28:11):
But from what I saw when I wasdoing an HR business partner,
even at Epic or as a consultant,that's what I'm consistently
seeing.

Farah Sharghi (28:17):
So as a recruiter it's funny because so before
recruitment I worked in financeand I worked in sales and
finance and so I know exactlywhat you're talking about,
warren it's like what you haveto do is take someone through a
consultative sales model tobasically Jedi mind truck them
into what you want them to do.
Now, as a recruiter, I realizedreally quickly oh you know what

(28:38):
, if I discuss comp at the verybeginning, within the first five
minutes of a phone call, I cansave myself a hell of a lot of
time and headache.
And so as part of my openingshtick, I will tell the
candidate I go, you're about tohave a very different
conversation than they're usedto having with a recruiter.
And I pause, I wait for thenervous giggle and then I move
forward and I go okay, so withit, you know, I'm actually going

(29:00):
to disclose to you thecompensation for this position.
So we're going to go over basesalary, bonus, potential equity.
That way you have an idea ofwhat a potential offer could
look like for you.
And if that is an alignment,then we'll move forward.
And then I discuss, like whatwe're going to talk about, and
then the end I gain agreementbecause we always want them in a
yes mentality, got to get themto say yes.
And I go and how does thatsound?

(29:21):
Yeah, that sounds great, movingforward.
And I remember and I'm going tocall it out Normally I wouldn't
do names like this, but when Iworked at the New York times,
the way that they hired for thegroup that they assigned me to,
they had one evergreenrequisition for 13 roles and I
was like what the actual F?

(29:43):
And I remember going into thefirst meeting with the then
recruiter, who then resigned,and I was like what nonsense is
this?
And I remember going to mymanager and saying like, what
are you doing?
Like, why are you trying tohire Amazon employees who make
two to three X which are able tooffer them?
Why are you even botheringputting them in a pipeline?
And what are you doing?

(30:04):
No, but the hiring managersreally want to interview them.
I'm like why?
Because they like to wastetheir time and company time.
Like, are you nuts?
No, and so I said this is how I, this is my process.
And she said you're not goingto do that.
And I go, watch me.
No-transcript what you did withthem, with us, because we hired

(30:50):
female engineers.
We did all sorts of stuff like,yeah, if you just approach it
correctly and pre-close thecandidate at the very beginning,
like you were talking aboutWarren, you won't have a mess
and waste much time.
Wow, it's not that hard of aconcept.

Warren (31:05):
Well, do you think that's changed with all these
influencers?
You've pre-closed them, likeDan was saying.
Hey, we talked about 120.
I'm offering you 130.
And now they're coming back at170 because they've seen
whatever influencer fill in theblank, say you can always get
more.

Farah Sharghi (31:23):
Yeah, I've had that and I'm like I'm I don't
know if you know me well, warren, but I'm kind of one of those
that's like fuck around and findout, so I'll just like confront
them.
I don't, I don't pander to thatshit.
I'm like, okay, we discuss this.
What changed?
What changed?
You tell me.
I put them right on the spot.
I'm like, oh, I have an offerthat I can pull if I want to.
I have the ability to do that.
So what changed?
Why do you feel like you deservemore?

(31:44):
This is how you performed inthe interview process.
Hr feels, based on yourperformance, et cetera, this is
the offer that you deserve.
Why do you feel you deservemore?
Because Vivian told me, yeah,exactly.
Vivian told me you know no,yeah, but like I know Dan has
made videos about this but likepeople have tried negotiating,
like cell phones, like, and I'mlike do you need a cell phone

(32:08):
for your job?
You're a software engineer.
You use Slack.
What are you talking about?
I'm a recruiter.
Yeah, of course I'm going toneed my cell phone.
It's for my job.
But if you don't need it foryour job, why are you trying to
negotiate that?
That's ridiculous and, ascandidates, you should talk to
the recruiter at the very firstcall and ask them what's
negotiable and what's not.
That's also like fault on youif you didn't do that.

(32:30):
Sorry, not sorry.

Warren (32:33):
I love candid conversations.
I love hey, I must.
This is my must have list andif you give it to me straight, I
can, as a recruiter, saveeverybody a lot of time.
Okay or no, we're not going tobe able to do that.
I'm sorry, we can't meet fourof your five must-haves and I

(32:53):
don't know why people would wantto continue to play the game
after that, but I think a lot ofthese influencers have turned
it into a game.
They're turning it into a game.

Farah Sharghi (33:04):
Totally Sorry.
The boys know that I tend tointerrupt.
I am so sorry, Warren.

Warren (33:09):
Go for it.

Farah Sharghi (33:10):
I was going to say one thing.
I had a candidate once who waslike really, really young I
think I had 10 offer negotiationcalls with this guy because it
wouldn't sink in where I waslike, dude, what are you doing?
This is the offer.
No, but the way it works isthat you make me an offer and I
send you what I want, and thenyou come back and you do this

(33:32):
and you do that, but you didn'tdo this and I go, I can do
whatever I want.
This is a salary negotiation.
Get it together.
But let me tell you somethingward, when you treat candidates
like people and I do like theycome back all the time, these
guys or gals that I've hiredover the years, they always
message me hey, fair, I'm on themarket.

(33:54):
Or hey, can we catch up?
I'm like, okay, sure, likewhat's going on, so it may.
Even if they get influence,it's okay.
Educate them and be like that'snot how this works.
You're taking advice fromsomeone who clearly has no
experience.
So stop that.
Actually take advice frompeople who actually know what
they're talking about and if youwant to go down that road,

(34:14):
knock yourself out, pull youroffer.
Do you want that?
No, okay, anyway, I'll get offmy soapbox.

Cee Cee (34:20):
I will say I think that as a recruiter, being that
candid and having those bluntconversations to your point,
farrah, people will come back toyou because now you're no
longer bad HR that we weretalking about before, Now you're
trusted HR and now you'rebuilding this relationship with
someone through.
And I agree, the candidconversations are the best, like

(34:43):
cut through the bs what aboutyou, mike?

Daniel Space (34:46):
what's your experience been?

Mike Peditto (34:48):
I.
Sometimes I like to just letfarah go.
Sometimes you can just likefire farah up and you can just
like hey, farah, what do youthink about siren negotiations?
And then, like 20 minutes later, you'll know how farah designed
a web software that flew aspaceship into mars.
But I she's done a lot of stuff.
It's amazing to listen to I.
So I don't know.

(35:09):
Like I for one don't think thatthese influencers are having
that big of an influence oncyber negotiation.
I don't know, this doesn'thappen to me that often.
I don't really come acrosspeople that often that are like
doing this terrible stuff thatwe actually see people online
saying.
So I think there's like a bitof a divide of, like what goes
viral versus what peopleactually apply in real life,

(35:30):
right, like I think that like ifthe viral stuff was as common
in real life, I would constantlybe hearing people tell me I
can't answer it, I have an NDA,or I would constantly be seeing
like the white fonts on resumeslike hidden and like I don't
actually run into that stuffthat often.
So I think the same comes withcyber negotiation.
I think the truth is mostpeople don't know how to do it
and they have a general distrustfor companies in HR, and that's

(35:53):
really what it comes down to.
And you know I think that'shard because you know, like
Farrah said, you can get them onyour side, you can have them.
See.
Look, I have the same intentionhere.
We want to fill a role and Ithink it just comes down to that
mistake that a lot of peopledon't realize.
I don't get the extra money Isave if I get you to take less

(36:13):
of my company.
What I am judged on at my jobis that I quickly fill the role
with a good candidate and youknow, if it takes me like going
up in the range that we can payto do that and that's the only
way, like then that's what I'mgoing to do.
You know, it's just kind oflike we're all on the same side
and I think that's theconversation I try and have with
candidates is, you know thatearly talk about it Like here's

(36:36):
where we pay, here's what it isLike does that work for you?
We're open, we post salaries,we'll talk about it.
Does that make sense for you?
And then, like if it changes,like Farrah said, like what's
changing throughout here, what'sgoing on, but also like clear
where we can and can't.
We had a candidate, you know, awhile ago that we gave an offer
to at the top of our range, therange work.
We talked about the range,great and then they came back

(37:00):
and asked for $20,000 more aftersort of already getting the top
of the range.
And I wasn't that shocked by itbecause I was like this is what
people do.
I think they just think theyhave to do this.
They think, like I'm supposedto negotiate, it's what you do,
and I just nicely was just likehey, like here's where our range
came from.
This is how levels work in therange.
This is where it's coming from.

(37:20):
We may not offer the top of therange, because I think you are
worth the top of the range thatwe pay, but that's what we pay
Like.
That is the budget.
It's not a made-up number, it'snot anything else.
We're a company that is openabout our salaries and they were
like OK, and they took it rightBecause it's any misinformation

(37:40):
out there that I think isactually damaging people.
It's not the weird tactics oranything else.
It's that general idea that HRis against you when it comes to
this, rather than us all on thesame page trying to just get
this role closed.

Daniel Space (37:55):
Okay, just real quick.
One of the things that I try toreally push in my content,
especially on salary andcompensation negotiation that I
try to really push in my content, especially on salary and
compensation negotiation allelements to it is to
destigmatize it and that itreally is on company's onus to
remove this awkwardness.
And so when I work withrecruiters, I'll always really
encourage them to say, hey,let's just start talking about
money, let's get this out in theopen.
How do we?

(38:16):
What are the things I can sharewith you about compensation?
What are the questions that youcan ask?
Some things I may be able toanswer, others I may be not, but
let's get you to a place ofcomfort where this doesn't feel
so high pressure for you,because it's not my money, and I
think that that's really wherea lot of companies struggle and
where I think the biggest fixcan happen from a systemic place
is companies treating employeesfar more like adults and really
opening the platform forconversations about compensation

(38:39):
the platform for conversationsabout compensation.

Warren (38:49):
Well, I was going to ask do you think the being
influenced thing is thatstrictly relegated to the
Zoomers?
We have that segment on thepodcast we call shitting on
Zoomers quite regularly, becausein my history I don't see too
many millennials or Xers, andcertainly not boomers, trying to
play salary games or play offernegotiation games.
You know it seems to be.

(39:10):
When I've seen it, it'sinevitably the Zoomers, and
maybe it's not influencer.
Maybe it's mommy and daddy,maybe it's, you know, their,
their career counselor atwhatever college or university,
giving them some bad advice aswell as well.
But I just observationally nodata behind it.
I think it seems to be anaffliction of the Zoomers versus

(39:33):
anybody else.

Mike Peditto (39:36):
Two things.
One, you will not catch me onthis podcast talking bad about
Gen Z.
Do not turn any clips into metrying to talk bad about Gen Z.
Gen Z, if you are out there, Ilove you.
I'll never say anything badabout you on a podcast and I
will never let any audio betaken out of context.
Two, that is in reference tosomething that happened a while
back where I had a video goviral where it looked like I was

(39:58):
absolutely shitting on Gen Z,but I was not and it was totally
out of context and it just likedestroyed my life online for a
while.
Billy eilish's brother, smack,talked him.
Billy eilish's brother wascoming for me.
Um, I didn't even know she hada brother, but, um, that's
because I, it's because I hatejenny now, I'm kidding, I didn't
say his name, finney f right.

Warren (40:17):
Yeah, I knew it and I'm I'm the oldest guy owned here by
a lot.

Mike Peditto (40:23):
I knew that.
But the other thing I would sayis like I don't think it's bad
advice to negotiate, and I don'tthink it's bad advice, I don't
think it's playing games tonegotiate.
I think that, like you have tolisten, you have to make it a
conversation, you have to makeit like we're working together
on a team.
But like I don't get offendedthat anybody, no matter what the

(40:45):
age is, because I think peopleof all ages negotiate.
I think we get a little bitmadder when young people do it,
because it's like well, where doyou get off?
You must have seen this onTikTok Like how do you earn the
right to ask?
But in reality, everyone of allages wants more money.
That's universal.
And I think, like, like I don'tget mad that you ask for more
money.
And what I get mad about is ifyou say like, hey, if you can
get me ten thousand more dollars, I'll take this offer and I do.

(41:08):
And then you're like OK, if youcan get me ten thousand more
dollars to take this offer,that's a game.
But like asking for more moneyon an offer is sort of like
that's your chance to do it.
You might get told yes, youmight get told no, and how do
you handle that conversation?
But like I always sort of likestray a little bit when I hear
kind of the idea of like playingnegotiation games.
You know, I do think this isyour moment to try to get those

(41:30):
things.
You just have to be likeoperating good faith and like
being smart and having goodconversations with people.

Farah Sharghi (41:37):
And I would also say like I don't see it as a
generational problem.
If anything, I think Gen Z isactually better at asking
questions and I've actually hadactually one candidate.
He's really great questions.
I was like they sound a bitfamiliar.
He goes yeah, I found yourTikTok channel and I, like Uno,

(41:57):
reversed me, which I was reallycute.
But you know what?
What game I really dislike isthe one and I've seen this with
millennials okay.
So if we have to call out ageneration where they play this
game of like, oh well, you know,I know I might get an offer,
but I heard from my manager thatI'm going to get promoted.
Okay, do you want to stay inyour job for another few months?

(42:22):
If you do, that's fine, justlet me know.
I have other people behind youthat are I could put forward in
the process.
So they play this game of like,leveling of like.
Well, you know, I'm gettingpromoted at my job.
I'm like you're off cycle.
Do you not think I understandwhat promo cycles look like,
especially in big tech?
Come on, like when they thinkI'm stupid is when it's really

(42:44):
annoying.
That's what's really irritating.
And to like I totally agree witheverything Mike said Like if
somebody comes back and wantsmore money than I pre-close and
say, okay, if I get, well, firstof all I always tell them I was
like, listen, I don't care howmuch money you get, I don't care
about your offer Again, nervouslaughter and I'm like, no, but
really it has no impact on me,so I don't care.
What I care about is you beinghappy with your offer, coming in

(43:06):
and starting your job and beingsuper happy because then you'll
do your best work, which thenwill make your manager happy and
everybody wins.
So let's decide what's going towork for you.
So if I get you this or better,will you say, yes, I pre-close
and I, you know that way, I knowin my head okay, this is the
watermark.
So that way I know if I get a,you know I get the offer back

(43:28):
and it's not quite there, Icould try to fight.
And if it's, if it's there, I'mlike great.
Then we go back to thecandidate.

Cee Cee (43:35):
You know, in the same vein but kind of different, I
was having a conversation atwork with like two co-workers.
Is I, I think of Gen Z andmillennial, but more toward the
Gen Z side, and this is hisfirst real job.
He's and he always like, saysit like first big boy job, but

(43:55):
now he's been in the role for, Iwould say, like a year and a
half.
He's hungry, hungry forpromotion.
And like it was me, one otherperson, him, and some of the
advice was like, hey, listen,particular company, you know
just, you know, just let youknow, like this is kind of how
the structure goes, especiallywith a promotion increase.
And then someone was like, ohwell, maybe you should just go

(44:17):
and say that you have an offerin hand.
And I was like, uh, you'regonna like here's the problem
with that like you could have anoffer in hand, but you better
have an offer in hand and youbetter be ready to like leave
because that's a dangerous game.
That is like that is playingwith fire.
And like, yeah, like you don'twant to be put in that position

(44:39):
because they could turn aroundand be like oh, good for you
Enjoy.

Daniel Space (44:45):
And I actually tried that once and this is why
I don't think there'snecessarily that much difference
in generations because I wasonce that entitled brat when I
was 24.
And I went to my manager afterI got my first 2.8 percent
increase and I was pissedbecause my co-worker said she
got 6 percent and of course Ididn't put two and two together.
Co-worker said she got sixpercent and of course I didn't
put two and two together.
She was hired after I was.
She had a very different role,um, and I said you know, I'm
like I was really upset aboutthe salary.

(45:05):
I don't feel valued and I'mgonna get an offer that's worth
ten thousand dollars one.
She was like I'm so happy foryou, that's so great, just uh,
whenever you're ready, just putyour letter in writing.
And I had to backpedal thatshit.
And then, like a month laterduring a one-on-one, she's like
I'm just going to call this outand say I think you tried
something that you shouldn'thave tried.
So let's talk about it out inthe open.
I'm going to coach you and tellyou why you should not do that
and tell you how to do that andhow to bring that up going

(45:27):
forward.
So and I think again.

Cee Cee (45:29):
I was super privileged, I had a phenomenal hr mentor,
but I think because we justdon't teach people how this
works in corporations and thenpeople are left to their own
devices and I will say, like momand dad, yeah, we like we were
talking about like thegenerations and I don't I never
like to generalize on generation, I'm that person but I will say
I think it just has to do wherethat that group is in their

(45:50):
life.
And right now, like the gen z'sthey were where millennials were
like 12 years ago, where wedidn't know anything.
Like we're trying to go onsocial media I don't know I'm on
live journal, I don't know whatI Like we're trying to go on
social media.
I don't know I'm on LiveJournal, I don't know what I was on at
the time, but you're trying toget like all this info, like
you're trying to get as muchhelp and guidance as you can.
And I'm thinking like myparents to this day, still give

(46:13):
me like my 75 year old parentsstill give me advice on like how
I should, what I should do inthe corporate office, and blah,
blah, blah.
Some of it is very sexist andI'm like, ok, well, yeah, like,
consider the source when you getadvice, especially when you're
new to career.

Daniel Space (46:28):
Absolutely yeah, we don't know.

Farah Sharghi (46:31):
Like we don't want to violate any dress codes,
which, by the way, that was.
I don't know if you guys eversaw that video on TikTok of a
young woman who got sent homefrom an interview because she
wore shorts.

Warren (46:41):
Oh, of a young woman who got sent home from an interview
because she wore shorts.

Farah Sharghi (46:45):
Oh yeah, I do not see that now.
And she was wearing shorts toan interview.
Well, it was like they wereshort, like so.
There were shorts that werelike mid thigh, like the top
part was fine.
She was wearing like a whitekind of like sweater t-shirt
thing, which actually lookednice, but it was like black
shorts and I think hr did theright thing, which is I don't
want to make the, you know, thiscandidate uncomfortable with

(47:05):
what she's wearing.
I'll just reschedule theinterview.
It's like, you know, hr covers.
I don't think people realize howoften HR covers for candidates
when they do dumb stuff.
But the comments though, genZ's like I don't see a problem
with this.
I don't see a problem with this.
I think that's probably due toa lot of people you know, going
through COVID and so they'venever, you know, they they were

(47:30):
home for several years.
They didn't really get toexperience like doing an
internship app but actuallyphysically app the company you
know.
So you know they make fun ofmillennials for our clothing
gear looking like businesscasual.
But you know, we got to go fromlike work to the club, like
what are you going to do?

Mike Peditto (47:45):
So much of this stuff is interesting.
This is probably a differentconversation that like there
isn't even time to get into.
This sort of like stems fromlike the like talk that like
Farrah joined me for and like Idid a talk at RecFest recently
and I've been like continuing toadapt for more things I want to
do it with.
But it was this sort of idea oflike it's I.
I personally I'm trying to pushhiring forward, to ditching

(48:06):
these like expectations of likewhat it's.
You know, instead ofcomplaining that the next
generation like wants adifferent ask like does it
actually matter?
Does it actually affect thespace?
Like yes, it is in in our mindsright now.
It is odd to come to aninterview in shorts because it's
not a thing, but like the endof the day, like would it
actually fucking matter if thisperson was like really good at
the job?
Right, and it's just sort oflike.

(48:27):
We find ourselves very stuck inthese like ways and I
understand why I can't just likesay this and then like it, just
like unfolds.
But like I do think that likewe continue for each generation
moving forward to have managerswho are like continue to work
with managers, instead of makingfun of that idea to be like,
yeah, I guess I really don'tcare, as long as they're not
like offensive shorts, right, aslong as it's not just like

(48:48):
something overtly sexual.
You know, it's just sort oflike, and I think with that like
a lot of things.
Like there was that virallinkedin thing a while ago of
like a candidate in a hoodie andpeople debating if, like, a
candidate could wear a hoodieduring a job interview and she's
like who cares?
Like I wore this like rad dadshirt today during an interview.
Like where do I get off sayinglike you can't wear a hoodie on
like a job interview?
It doesn't affect anything,unless you're in an environment

(49:09):
where you're supposed to be in asuit and tie every day and then
you just have to prepcandidates, that kind of stuff.

Cee Cee (49:19):
So you know, I just think it early in for Luxottica,
which, if you don't know, theyown everything optical.
But Oakley was part, or isstill part, of them.
But they moved offices fromCalifornia into our office here
and like the Oakley isathleisure, oakley is, you know,
sun, like sun gear, this andthat.
And I remember like it was sucha conflict when the California

(49:42):
Oakley people came and they werewearing athleisure to work.
And this is like 12 years agobefore athleisure was like a
thing, so like they just come towork in yoga pants and a
t-shirt, but like everyone elseat the time was like business
casual or like jeans and a plate, like you know, and it was just
.
That was a really funny cultureshift to see.

(50:03):
And then there actually had tobe a memo out because some of
the leggings were too thin andyou could actually like see
underwear and underwear lines.
So that memo had to go out tobe like, okay, well, at least
wear thick leggings.
But it's funny because even atthat time I mean I I was in my
mid-20s at that time and I waslike it was scandalous like

(50:25):
wearing leggings to the office.
And now I mean I work from homeand I'm always in leggings?

Mike Peditto (50:30):
I never am not in leggings it's almost this idea
of like what does professionalmean?
And like everyone kind ofdebates that and and like.
To me, the idea of professionalis like you do a good job and
you don't like interfere withother people's abilities to do a
good job.
So if you say, like clothes aretoo thin and I can just like

(50:51):
see your underwear when you walkin, you could argue, yes, that
interferes with, like theoffice's ability to function,
but like you being in a pair ofsweatpants or leggings in
general like should, in theory,have no impact on how anybody
works.
We've just sort of like decidedthat it does.
It's kind of interesting.

Cee Cee (51:05):
Yeah.

Warren (51:06):
Well, me being the old guy in the room and we had this
discussion earlier on anotherpodcast, my son and I.
He's a senior in college andhe's I'm sending him.
Well, he was supposed to go tointernship interviews but
Hurricane Helene happened out inWestern North Carolina, so it
didn't happen.
But before school started Itook him to the door okay, we're

(51:29):
going to get you a nice set ofclothes to wear for your
internship, job fair.
And he that's probably one ofthe biggest fights we've had.
My son and I don't really fight.
That was one of the biggestfights we've had in a long time.
He's like they don't care whatI wear.
I said, yes, they do.
And he's like, oh, I said, butthe people making the hiring
decisions are my age.
They think my way a lot oftimes.

(51:51):
It doesn't hurt to put your bestfoot forward and ultimately I
gave up.
I said, screw it, you do whatyou're going to do, but if you
just happen to get an and a tiewhen it comes to going to the
actual in-person interview, ifyou can ever get one, well, no,
job fair because of, like I said, hurricane Helene.
But that was actually anargument between my son and I.

(52:14):
I said hey, let's get you somenice.
I wasn't even going for a suitat the job fair.
I said let's get you some niceslacks, let's get you a polo.
You can wear some cool heydudes that go with it.
With it, that's fine, I don'tcare about that.
And he's like fighting me andfighting me in front of me, like
okay, I gave up after somepoint and I was like you know,
you knew you do need aninternship to graduate, you know
, and you're a senior, so let'suh do the math here yeah,

(52:38):
there's an interesting.

Mike Peditto (52:39):
There's an interesting split with this kind
of advice in general, and I Iget into this with the job
seekers all the time.
Well, it shouldn't be that way,it should be this way.
The truth is it is what it is.
So, like that's the thing islike you can tell job seekers
one thing, because, like this iswhat's going to put you in the
best position.
But then I also think the otherside is like working with
managers to just like care lessabout that, like over time, but

(52:59):
like right now, you're right.
It tells them like no, youdon't do this.
Well, I should be able to.
Okay, great, I agree with you,you should be able to, but I
also want to put you in the bestposition to get a job today.
So I'm telling you like not todo it.
And I think that's where thatlike line comes in when people
argue for this stuff.

Farah Sharghi (53:15):
Well, I was going to say, as a recruiter, I would
tell my candidates because, youknow, usually the first water,
two interviews are virtual orit's over the phone.
So when I'm prepping them fortheir onsites, I'm like let's
talk about wardrobe and I wouldgive them it's like look by the
way.
Whenever I would tell mygentlemen because I was always
very specific I was like okay,do you have a checkered dress

(53:37):
shirt?
If they said yes, I was likegreat.
They said no, I'm like that'sokay, don't worry, just asking.
So I'd tell them head to toelike wear a checkered shirt,
wear, you know, if you havejeans, like a dark wash is nice,
you know, have a belt, maybesome smart sneakers or this, and
like, with this particular role, they were going into a
building that has concretefloors and so the concern is, if

(54:00):
the candidate comes in andthere's concrete floors, you
don't want them to slip and falland hurt themselves.
So it's like it was more aboutlike yes, you don't want them to
slip and fall and hurtthemselves.
So it's like it was more aboutlike, yes, you know, I want you
to be put your best foot forward.
For the ladies, I was like,okay, just wear like a color
that, next to your face, that'svery flattering, that you feel
comfortable in.
Just know that the rooms arevery cold, so you do need to
layer.
Also, please don't wear highheels because of the concrete

(54:22):
floor.
I don't want you to slip andhurt yourself.
Oh, okay, so it was kind oflike I kind of integrated that
as like part of the prep so,again, they don't hurt
themselves and, like you know,make themselves feel
uncomfortable.
Well, I guess that's what agood recruiter should be doing.

Cee Cee (54:38):
Yes, I was saying like you never know.
I play both sides of thatbecause it's like I want you to
feel authentic, I want you tofeel's like.
I want you to feel authentic, Iwant you to feel comfortable, I
want you to feel like you, butat the same time, you don't know
who's receiving you on theother end.
Like I have a piercing in mynose and I have tattoos, if I'm

(54:59):
going to go to an interview, I'mnot going to show those things
because I don't know how thatperson like what judgments, what
by have.
And honestly, like when you'rein the role, when you're rocking
, when you're doing a good job,let the tattoos fly, you know.
Like wear those shorts to work.
Who cares?
Because you're in the role andyou're doing well and therefore

(55:20):
like you're part of it.
It's like when you're trying toget in, play it safe, like why
are we gambling?

Farah Sharghi (55:27):
yes, absolutely I was also going to say to your
point cc like I like with myladies, if I, if I notice, if
I'm on a video call and they'rewearing like dangly earrings or
like really bold jewelry, I'mlike listen, super cute.
However, this is superdistracting, like big, sparkly
earrings as you're moving, likeit's gonna like distract the

(55:49):
interviewer and you don't wantto do that.
Also, if you have big braceletsor bangles, if it hits the
table, it's gonna make a lot ofnoise, like we don't want to do
that, so just like, leave it athome.
You know, I'm sure it's supercute, but like we don't need
that today.
They're like oh, that makessense.
So if, like, if you back it upwith some logic, they're like oh
, actually you know what You'reright.
Not saying I'm right or wrong,but I just want them to do their

(56:12):
best, yeah.

Warren (56:15):
Well, I think this is a pretty good place to land the
plane, if you will.
It's been a lot of fun, guys,and I definitely would love to
have you all come back againsometime in the future, because
these are the type of hrconversations I really want to
be having.
So hr is not necessarily thebad guy, that we're out there

(56:36):
recruiters doing a good job intrying to help the candidates
actually get the job, versus therecruiters out there just to
screw me and ghost me and youknow whatever else that you see
online and things like that.
So these are the conversationsI want to have.
We can still have fun.
We can be jaded.
We can have fun with it.
Just the same, it doesn't haveto be crazy or anything like

(56:56):
that.
So one thing I didn't do earlierI did not thank our Patreon
supporters.
Our Patreon supporters Hallie,the original Jaded HR rock star,
bill and Michael.
So thank you for supporting uson Patreon.
It really helps, and if any ofyou else wants to support us, go
to Patreon.
There's the links in our shownotes.
We'll also put a link to theCorporate Pizza Party podcast in

(57:17):
our show notes so you canfollow them, and I'll put a link
to all of your social mediaaccounts as well in the show
notes, so you can definitely, ifyou don't.
Everybody already follows them,so if you don't already, you
can find them quick and easy andgive them a follow online as
well.
So, y'all, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
I really appreciate any finalwords you want to.

(57:39):
You know, talk about yourselves.
Corporate pizza party floor isyours, go for it.

Daniel Space (57:45):
I just wanted to thank both of you.
Thanks so much for theinvitation, thanks for being
flexible.
It's always such a pleasure.
You guys are great, and thankyou to your Patreon supporters
and we hope to continue tocollaborate together, yes.

Farah Sharghi (57:56):
Thank you so much for having us.
It was fun.

Mike Peditto (57:59):
Yeah, this was a good time.
At the end of our podcast, wedo this, except we do this,
except we ask if you have anyreservations about this episode
Speaking of more bad advice,telling people the things to do
at the end.
So I have no reservations,although I feel like I did just
watch Warren spend like 10minutes in my shoes.
I'm usually trying to wrangleeveryone to stop talking so he
can wrap this up.
So thank you for having us andthank you to your Patreon

(58:19):
supporters, and this was a lotof fun.

Warren (58:22):
All right.
Well, we will try and get thisdone again sometime, not in the
terribly distant future.
Before we go, I want to signoff by saying the intro.
The voice artist in our introis Andrew Kolpa.
I want to thank him for that,and the intro and outro music is
Double the Double by theUnderscore Orchestra.
So, as always, I'm Warren.

Cee Cee (58:42):
I'm Cece.

Daniel Space (58:44):
I'm Dan from HR.

Farah Sharghi (58:45):
I'm Farrah Shorty .
I'm Mike.
I'm Cece.
I'm Dan from HR.
I'm Farrah Shorty.

Warren (58:48):
I'm Mike Pedito and we're here helping you survive
HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Bye, everyone, bye.