October 16, 2024 • 48 mins
Prepare yourself for a candid and lively chat with Mike Coffey, host of Good Morning HR, as we kick off our "Must Listen To Podcasts" series. Imagine having the chance to audit your company's hiring process after an FBI-level heist—Mike has been there, done that, and lived to tell the tale. From aerospace to healthcare, his impressive journey in HR sheds light on the expertise and insights needed to navigate this complex field. Together with Warren and Mike from Jaded HR, they explore what makes a podcast authentically represent HR and avoid falling into corporate jargon traps. If you've ever pondered the power of a well-curated podcast list, you're in for a treat.
Join us as we reveal the secrets behind crafting a meaningful podcast experience, one that resonates with HR professionals and the curious alike. Our hosts, Warren and Cece, share their meticulous selection criteria for podcasts that deliver real, engaging content, and Mike Coffey fits this mold perfectly. Listen in for a mix of humor and insightful industry tales, as Warren recounts the quirks of past podcast lists and the joys of creating one that truly matters. Whether you’re an HR veteran or a newcomer eager to learn, this episode promises rich stories, laughter, and a genuine appreciation for the art of podcasting.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew Quilpa (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:51):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough to workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren and I'm Mike, not CC, exactly.
We've kicked the kids out ofthe room.
All my co-hosts have alwaysbeen younger than me, and so now
we've got some Gen Xers herethat are going to take over the
whole podcast.
So all you whippersnappers andZoomers out there.
(01:13):
You're going to have to put upwith us for a little bit of time
.
But, as you hear, we have MikeCoffey on with us today.
He is the host of Good MorningHR and this is actually the
first episode of our Must listento podcast series we're going
to do, and so for the next fewweeks we're going to be bringing
on guests who host otherpodcasts to have them tell about
(01:35):
their podcast.
But I want to give you somebackground on how we got here.
Cece and I were talking andthere's all sorts of best
podcast lists out there andJaded HR has made a few of them.
But there was one that someonetagged me on once and I looked
at it and it was by anotherpodcaster and it was an order
(01:56):
list.
This list is not ordered.
The order is by who can comeand be online with us at what
time and work into our schedule.
But these are justmust-listen-to podcasts.
But this one list we put intoJaded HR was listed on and be
online with us at what time andwork into our schedule.
But these are just must listento podcasts.
But this one list we put intowe Jaded HR was listed on.
I think we're like seven oreight or whatever.
It doesn't matter.
But the host of the listcreator was host of podcast
number two and I just got alaugh out of it and that podcast
(02:21):
isn't around anymore.
And the other podcast liststhat you see out there are done
like clickbaity.
Some I haven't posted episodesfor a long time or others are
just not good episodes.
So I wanted to have something.
I came up with Criteria had tobe actively recording and have
an episode in the last threemonths was one of them.
(02:42):
It cannot be a corporate shillsales job on that.
Like there's some HRIS systemsthat have a podcast where
they're you know they're talkingHR, but it's it's talking their
HRIS.
Mike Coffey (02:54):
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a
nail, and that's kind of whatthey exactly.
Warren (03:00):
I didn't want those and I wanted to be real list of
podcasts.
The CC and I discussed thesepodcasts that we're inviting on
and we said, yep, we'll havethis one, and we had some
discussion Should we includethis, should we not include this
?
And we haven't made our list.
But we have to listen to themand I think they're quality
enough to rank as our list.
Who knows?
We've got a number of otherhosts coming on already
(03:22):
scheduled and we're trying toarrange a few more.
Hopefully, get this Must ListenTo podcast to carry through the
rest of the year.
But before I go too muchfurther, I want to thank our
Patreon supporters.
We have Hallie, the originalJaded HR rock star, and then we
have Bill and Michael as well.
So thank you for your continuedsupport.
But let's get things started.
(03:42):
So, mike, you are beyond thehost of Good Morning HR.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Mike Coffey (03:49):
Well, I'm a career HR guy who was in aerospace and
then healthcare and then lefthealthcare and started
consulting.
And then one of my earlyconsulting clients was a
nationwide financial servicescompany.
They'd had a big internal theftand they brought me in to come
(04:10):
in.
I mean, like the FBI isinvolved, is that kind of
company?
And they brought me in to do anaudit of their employee
selection process because theFBI was like holding this
person's rap sheet and said whydid you hire her?
And and they clearly, amongother things, needed better
background checks.
And I had run that for thehealthcare system that I'd
(04:31):
worked for and and you know thatwas pre internet that's how old
I am and so I had to become anexpert, you know, from the
employer side of the desk onthat stuff for that.
And so one thing led to another, and actually I was they, they,
they suggested their VP of HRwas an attorney, had a and just
I've always I was always kind ofthe HR compliance wonk and he
(04:54):
said, well, why don't you justdo this for us?
Cause you understand all thisbackground check stuff, you know
, cause we'd put out RFPs anddidn't like the results that
came back and he and I said I'dhave to go get a PI license.
You know, I mean, here in Texasyou have a private
investigator's license to dothat.
I have to go do that and I hadto.
I mean, it's hiring people.
I'm not sure this.
You know, this is what I'mgoing to do a long-term.
(05:25):
And I came like, oh well, therewe go.
And so here we are, 25 yearslater he's an engineer and I've
got three amazing boys and I'vepaid for colleges with this and
got an amazing team that doesall the hard work and lets me do
the fun stuff.
I still work with clients tosolve people issues.
I've I will never write anotheremployee handbook or anything
(05:48):
like that, but I still do a lotaround employee relations,
employee selection stuff.
But you know, my bread andbutter is really, you know it's
imperative.
We do, you know, just like Ialways say you know, bulletproof
background checks, for withfast and friendly service we
just we cater to really riskaverse clients and it's not just
employment background checks.
We do due diligence for privateequity firms, family offices,
(06:13):
vendor selection.
We have a really large CPA firmthat before they take on an
audit client, they have us dodue diligence on the principles
of the company so they know whothey're getting in bed with.
So basically it's peoplerelated stuff.
So that's where, that's whatyou know, that's what I pay for
all my kids' college andprobation fees with.
Is that kind of?
(06:34):
Is that part of it?
But I get to spend most of mytime doing fun stuff, speaking
at conferences.
I'm really involved in TexasSHRM and support chapters across
the state.
We've got 32 chapters here inTexas and so I do a lot with
those folks, and so I just kindof live the dream.
Warren (06:56):
Hey, it sounds great.
So what made you decide tocreate the podcast?
Good Morning HR.
How did you get to that point?
Mike Coffey (07:04):
create the podcast.
Good Morning HR.
How did you get to that point?
Well, the thing called COVIDhappened and where I was
traveling, speaking atconferences and SHRM chapters
and knitting clubs anybody whohad listened to me I mean Rotary
, I didn't care, I wantedaudiences and that all stopped
and so I was kind of climbingthe walls and then we, you know,
(07:25):
we had sent all our employeeshome.
They were all working remoteand I just needed I needed to
meet some people.
And you know we're in Texas, soyou know everything shut down
in March and by June we wereFrench kissing strangers on the
street.
You know we didn't stay reallylocked down that long, but a lot
of the big meetings weren'thappening and so I had had the.
(07:47):
Actually I did a podcast forAustin HR about 10 or 12 years
ago, for about a year, and Ireally enjoyed it.
But just because you know, withSHRM chapters, people, you know
, officers change and people aredifferent, people are in charge
of different things, andsuddenly that just wasn't a
priority.
So it's kind of withered up anddied, but I really had enjoyed
(08:09):
it.
So I said, well, let's, youknow, let's kick that back up
and that'll get me, you know,meeting new people, interesting
people, and my one superpower isasking, you know, dumb
questions of smart people.
So I get to play to my talentsand so I started doing that and
I've got a great team.
My marketing coordinator,marianne Hernandez, is awesome.
(08:33):
I've got an amazing producer,rob Upchurch, who does all the
hard work.
So all I have to do is ask dumbquestions to smart people, and
so it makes it pretty easy.
But the funny thing about thename Good Morning HR we went
through everything we couldthink to, because the old
podcast back when we were doingwith Austin HR was called the
Imperative Podcast and I didn'twant that and we kept you know,
and everybody was pushing me hey, it's a podcast.
(08:55):
You should say you know, it'syour morning coffee C-O-F-F-E-Y,
because that's my last name andmy initials are M-R.
Michael Ray Coffee, m-r.
So when, and I, my initials aremr michael ray coffee, mr.
So when I was in aerospace, mybadge says mr coffee.
Yeah, thanks a lot, mom.
I appreciate that.
And so I wasn't.
And so coffee jokes I mean, I'm55, I've listened to them for
55 years, so I'm gonna do that.
(09:18):
And then I started thinking well, I own probably 40 or 50 domain
names, because every time I getan idea for something, I
registered the domain name.
Then I just keep renewing it.
I mean, dotster makes so muchmoney off of me and so I started
going through those, andthere's one that I had
registered in 2012 called GoodMorning HR, and I remember the
conference I was sitting in.
(09:38):
There was somebody talkingabout Web 2.0 at this conference
and talking about how youreally needed to have, and I
registered from my phone myearly iPhone that domain name
right there, and I'm not, andI've paid for it for all these
years and never used it.
And I said, hey, how about goodmorning HR?
And everybody said, oh, that's,that's better than the mic show
, so let's go with that.
And so that's that's wherewe're at.
Warren (10:01):
That's funny.
12 is and I don't have the.
I'll have to look up the date,probably when I first registered
jaded hrs I it started as ablog and I was like so many
blogs out there start outgangbusters, and then, you know,
a year or two in I'm like onepost a month.
I would go from like everyother day to one post a month
and I didn't have a lot of.
(10:21):
I had a few hundred, uh, uh,you know, visits a month to my
page and it was just like.
So I ended up I kept the domain, I just took the blog down.
But yeah, that's that's howthis started, in that we
actually I actually got the ideato bring back the Jaded HR in
form of a podcast.
(10:42):
Patrick and I, we used to worktogether.
Hr in the form of a podcast.
Patrick and I, we used to worktogether.
He was our first co-host andthen I left the company and he's
actually still there and theThanksgiving before COVID, I
just bounced the idea off of him.
I said or maybe a little biteven earlier than that, I said,
hey, I have this idea, I want tobring back Jaded HR and bring
it as a podcast.
(11:04):
And he was on board and it wasso funny.
We got together the team, thecompany that both Patrick and I
used to work for.
Everybody else other thanPatrick left At some point we
had a lunch over Thanksgivingthat year, right before COVID,
and so Patrick and I have anannouncement to make and
everybody went all crazy and nowit's nothing crazy, we're just
making a podcast and things likethat.
(11:25):
But yeah, that in podcasting isso much easier than blogging
and it's so much more fun too.
It really is, and I reallyappreciate it, and it seems like
it's an easier way to get yourword out there than than
blogging.
And you know, the JDA HR doeshave a webpage and a blog, which
is completely unattended.
But yeah, I need to spend sometime on that, so, anyhow.
(11:47):
Now, one thing I really likeabout Good Morning HR is you
give the HRCI credits.
I was telling you all fair.
I'm just barely over a year inmy certification cycle and I've
already got of the 60, I'veprobably got 50 research credits
and most you know I go toconferences and things like that
, but overall, most of them arefrom Good Morning HR at half an
(12:12):
hour, 75.75 or full hour, andI've done some of your webinars
as well.
So if you are a certifiedprofessional, this is probably
the best way to get yourcertification credits.
It's great because I'mlistening to podcasts anyway and
, like I said, yours is highquality, good guests.
(12:33):
I love your guests and we'retalking off air about you
getting your guests, but itseems like most of them seem to
be drawn from your SHRMnetworking, you seem to have a.
You know you've known thisperson 20 years and you've known
this person 15 years and thingslike that.
So you have good guests whospeak well on their topics and I
really appreciate it.
And another thing you're nottrying to sell anything you do
(12:56):
like what a 30 second?
Mike Coffey (12:58):
Yeah, there's a, there's.
We've got a two minute cap onme talking about imperative in
the center, and that's just sothat I can justify to my
accountants that this is amarketing expense, because
really it's a passion thing forme, it's something.
Andrew Quilpa (13:11):
I just enjoy doing.
Mike Coffey (13:12):
But the HRCI and SHRM research credits have
certainly gotten a lot ofattention and made it popular,
because there's not manypodcasts out there that go
through the effort to really getthose things pre-approved and
registered.
But we did that all along.
We've been doing webinars foryears and at any given time I've
got between 15 and 20 hours ofwebinars on the website that
(13:35):
people can just go watch forfree and get credit.
And most of them have nothingto do, and I think my webinars
are kind of like the podcast.
They almost have nothing to dowith what I actually sell, where
I make my revenue on thebackground check.
Most of them are around otherissues like AI, which has become
a big topic for us, and justthings I'm interested in.
It gives me a way to have anexcuse to go explore something
(13:55):
and create a webinar on it.
But they're all HRCI and SHRMcredit.
In fact, Mary Ann, ourmarketing coordinator, told me
last week and I think she saidit was 70,000.
We've given away 70,000 HRCIand SHRM research credits just
from Good Morning HR in 170episodes.
So that's got to put us on alist someplace, I think.
(14:17):
But it's certainly it's free,and I'm a big supporter of SHRM
chapters and I think everybodyshould be part of their, their
local HR community, whether it'sa SHRM group or something else,
and, you know, participate inDisrupt HR or whatever comes
along.
But, and certainly HR Southwestis, you know, our home, our
(14:38):
state conference here in Texasand I've spoken at it every year
for ever and wouldn't miss itfor the world.
But you know a lot of folks,especially in a state like Texas
where you've got so many ruralareas that don't have, you know,
maybe they've got a local SHRMchapter or maybe the nearest
one's 45 minutes or two hoursaway, and so them having a way
(14:59):
to get research credit and stilllearn something and stay up on
current things, I think is justreally important.
So it's, you know, it's kind ofa privilege in a lot of ways
that people you know that theylisten to me and that I'm able
to help them.
I was at a conference and we'resitting around at a dinner, at a
table having lunch, and I wastalking to the person next to me
(15:19):
and the person on my.
You know, I was talking to theperson on my right and the
person on my left tapped me onthe shoulder and said, hey, are
you that podcast guy?
And and he just heard my voiceand and and I said, yeah, yeah,
hi, it's good to meet you.
And he said, you know, yousound like Kermit the frog.
I'm like, okay, well, that'sgreat, well, thank you, but I
listened to your podcast.
Warren (15:41):
Oh, okay, yeah, Kermit the frog, I haven't been
identified yet, but I don't do alot of.
I'm not out in the public as asmuch as you are, but I, I love
it.
I you know.
I consider you my fridaymorning of commuting partners.
I have an hour and a halfcommute now.
I do listen to all my podcasts.
The minimum I listen to is at1.5x, depending on the podcast
(16:05):
and the topic.
I'll go as high as two things,but and I can't listen at one X
anymore I am completely.
I get frustrated like hurry upand speak.
Do you listen.
Yeah, I do the sameEverything's usually at 1.25.
Mike Coffey (16:22):
And I listened to.
I listened to a lot of ofpodcasts too, and there's a
handful of them that you know Ihave to hear every week.
They're just part of my routine.
But I also listen to a lot ofaudible audiobooks.
I've been yes, I've been doingaudible since like 99.
I've got, you know, thousandsof titles in my library now and,
uh, I listen to most of thoseat like one and a half times,
(16:43):
unless it's a, you know,especially like right now I'm
reading a book called Breath andit's about healthy breathing
and it's all this stuff and it'sinteresting.
But I can listen to it prettyfast.
But if it's a good narrativenovel, like fiction, I'll listen
to it at a normal pace becausethose voice actors are so good
on those things, and so I'lllisten to it that way, at normal
speed.
Warren (17:03):
Actors are so good on those things, and so I'll listen
to it that way at normal speed.
Well, speaking of breath, Ithink that probably ties in your
other.
Your other hobby is a yogainstructor.
Yeah.
You speak about on your thing.
So that must be perfect for HRfolks because, lord knows, we,
we, I had a day to day,stressful days and and things
like that, so that you couldsell your yoga instructing to,
(17:27):
to HR professionals and have agreat market right there.
Just a HR only yoga studio.
Mike Coffey (17:33):
And yeah, I've been practicing 15 years and I
started cause I tore up my knee.
You remember the P90X, youremember that you get to see the
DVDs and do that.
I tore my meniscus doingjumping jacks and P90X on Berber
carpet in our living room and Ihad the surgery and it still
felt crunchy.
And a friend of mine who playssoccer, who's my age, and he at
(17:56):
the time was in his 40s andplayed soccer at a pretty
competitive level for his age,and he said, hey, you should try
this hot yoga.
It's going to really make adifference in your knee.
And I'm like I'm not doing yogaand but it just never.
My knee never felt quite rightand so I finally went into yoga.
I went to a Bikram studio anddid that really hot yoga, 105
degrees, about 60% humidity inthe room for 90 minutes and I
(18:18):
did it for every day for a weekand I kept coming back and
within a month all thatcrunchiness, after they had
repaired it, had gone away in myknee.
And so I was.
I was hooked, and so it's been15 years.
So breathing is is big for me,but also just just, it's a great
low impact.
You know I'm 55 and you know itsometimes hurts to get out of
(18:42):
the chair and you know I hurt me, you know I hurt myself just
doing stupid stuff.
And so I found that when I'mreally, you know I practice or
teach just about every day.
You know I still do some weightsand some high intensity
interval training stuff, but Iwanted to teach.
I wanted to teach for years.
But making the time planningahead so that I had time to do
(19:06):
200 hours of teacher trainingwas challenging and I finally
decided I wanted to do it lastyear after 15 years of
practicing, and it was a matterof saying okay, I'm going to say
no to this conference, I'mgoing to say no to this
conference.
I'm not going to do this travelfor the fall so that I can get
all 200 hours of training in.
(19:26):
And now I teach four times aweek at the Core Power Yoga here
in Fort Worth Shout out to CorePower.
And I practice on top of that.
Those four classes I teach andusually four or five, really
five or six sometimes I'll stillpractice at least five times a
week, and so it's and I can tellmy sanity at the end of the day
(19:47):
is so much better if I was inthe yoga studio at 6 am than, if
I'm not, I'm kind of unbearableabout three or four in the
afternoon.
Warren (19:58):
Yeah, I don't do yoga or anything.
My wife and I.
Since we moved to where we arenow, we're in a very scenic area
and we do a walk and thewalking you know our standard
route is three miles and I cantell the difference of just the
stress and relaxation and wejust chit-chat and talk and have
our dog with us and it's great.
(20:19):
You need to get out.
You expend some energysomewhere.
Mike Coffey (20:23):
Well, and you know, you get to a certain age where
you start reading aboutlongevity with health.
And I have a 95-year-oldgrandmother who's a widow, who
lives by herself and is as toughas nails.
I mean you can't keep thoseDepression-era girls down, but
she's got her wits about her,she's strong and she just
(20:43):
maintained a different lifestylethan most Americans do today.
She's always active and evennow, at 95, I'm pretty convinced
every inch of her flooring isvacuumed or mopped every single
day.
And so she stays active and allthat and so, and when you start
reading about it, it's, you know, balance, you know core
(21:07):
strength and mental cognitionare the three things that you've
got to preserve in order tolive a long, healthy life.
And so I'm getting, you know,I'm really getting at least two
of those, you know, by stayingactive in yoga.
You know, my wife was a runnerand her knees kind of given up,
so she's practicing yoga, but wedo.
We walk a lot too, and that's agreat way just to clear your
(21:28):
head.
I just, you know, being activeis is really important, and I'm
certainly not a jock, I'm notcoordinated.
I mean, you know, I always sayI'm blind in my right eye and
I'm deaf in my left.
I can't do, you know, and nohand-eye coordination or
anything like that.
So yoga is perfect because youget to move at your own pace,
move with your own breath, and Ican walk too.
(21:49):
So that's, you know, thatdoesn't take a lot.
So, yeah, but I think it's, youknow, for me, it's made me
bearable to all the people in mylife, so it helps, oh yeah, I
just, you know I I've tried to.
Warren (22:01):
You know I used my moving as a trigger point for
I've got a new house I've gotten.
I used my moving as a triggerpoint for I've got a new house,
I'm in a new place.
I would change all these habitsand overall it's worked pretty
well.
I still don't I'm not perfect,but I've lost a lot of weight
since March when we moved andoverall I'm feeling better and
(22:22):
I'm more energized.
I'm just happier overall and,yeah, I think just getting a
little exercise works.
But let's see here, what do you?
You bring on any number ofguests.
And one thing I was sayingearlier I like about your guests
they come from your network butthey also they're not out there
.
Like a lot of the interviewstyle podcasts.
(22:42):
They're not out there sellingtheir latest book or a seminar.
And if you've listened to anyepisodes of JJ Archer, you know
HR.
You know that I am very anti.
I know you're a speaker, butthe keynote speakers who try
your best, do your hardest andthings like that have no
substance behind anything.
(23:03):
That's one of the things thatjust kills me when you go to a
seminar and somebody's got this.
That's one of the things thatjust kills me when you go to a
seminar and somebody has gotthis.
You know, rainbows andbutterflies, presentation that
has zero substance.
And then I it blows my mindwalking out and I'm just like,
I'm like what the fuck did Ijust listen to for an hour and
then so many people love that somany people love that stuff and
I'll go to the conference and alot of conferences I'll I'll go
(23:33):
to the conference and a lot ofconferences I'll.
Mike Coffey (23:34):
I'll skip the keynote unless it's somebody,
because you know, but evencelebrities, I don't care what
they think, and it's just notyou know, and so but, like, hr,
southwest is having Sam Rad,who's a futurist.
She calls herself a futuristanthropologist and she, her
writing is really interestingand she actually spoke to the
leadership of the Texas StateSHRM Council Texas State Council
for SHRM last year I think andit was just really really
(23:55):
interesting.
So I'm looking forward to herkeynote and in fact we're doing
two live episodes on the floorat HR Southwest this year.
Andrew Quilpa (24:03):
We've never, done that before.
Mike Coffey (24:04):
Yeah, it's walking without a tight rope and we'll
see it may be a total disaster,but, but she but I'm
interviewing her after herkeynote in front of a live
audience, so we'll see how thatplays out.
I like those, but I'm alwayslooking for something practical
to take away.
And that's the other thingabout giving HRCI and SHRM
(24:25):
research credit thing, abouthaving giving hrci and sherm
research credit you've got tohave at least three key learning
points in order to you know toreally justify it getting credit
and so.
But you know you get pitched, Iget pitched everybody I know
with a podcast as soon as you'vegot past nine episodes, which
puts you in about the top 10 ofpodcast ever don't tell me.
Warren (24:45):
I always say I'm in the top five percent of podcasts
don't tell them the secret, andso you know.
Mike Coffey (24:52):
But you know all the pr firms.
You know every company is outthere paying pr firms to get
their executives or their theirleaders out on podcasts, but you
know to sell their company oneway or the other and we just
really really avoid that.
I book very few guests that arecoming from that environment.
Now if they've published a book, I'll have them send me a
(25:15):
pre-release copy of the book andI like them to send it to me in
PDF because I can drop it inChatGPT and say give me the
highlights and in ChatGPT you'lljust read the PDF and give me a
really good synopsis and so Idon't have to actually sit down
and read it for three hours orfour hours.
And so I'll do authorssometimes, but most of it I
(25:35):
ignore the PR.
But I've got my network, got abig LinkedIn network, but also
I'm subscribed to way too manylocal SHRM chapters, monthly
newsletters or weeklynewsletters, emails or whatever
they do, and so I see who theirspeakers are and what they're
speaking about.
So I'll just cold reach out.
So I've had employment lawattorneys and HR consultants
(25:57):
from all over the country on thepodcast just because I saw that
they were speaking in thischapter.
I thought, oh, that's aninteresting topic, or I'd like
their perspective.
And I spend too much time onLinkedIn seeing what people are
saying about, you know, people,issues and leadership issues and
I'm saying, oh, I'd like to getthis person on, or I think this
person's full of shit.
I want let's let me get them onand and, and, you know, let's
engage and talk about it.
(26:18):
And we've had a few that havewhere we've butted heads, but
usually I, you know, my job is Isee it as not to be is to
facilitate the conversation, notto, not to debate somebody on
this.
But I have thought aboutstarting a second podcast, just
where I, you know, I, you know,be brave and call bullshit that
kind of thing.
Warren (26:37):
And so I'd subscribe to that one too.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I, I loveit.
But you sort of walked rightinto the topic we wanted to
cover today Talk about puttingthe books into ChatGPT.
But you seem to be verypassionate about artificial
intelligence.
Beyond talking about it on yourshow, you've done several
(26:58):
webinars on it.
I love the one with the deepfake my coffee.
That was really cool.
I actually pulled that up andshowed it to my assistant.
This is really cool the way youdid that, and you did another
one not too long ago on AI aswell, so it's a topic that you
seem to be pretty interested in.
So I think there's only AI isvery dividing, like everything
(27:22):
else in the country right now,but the people who love it and
are really all in and the peopleare scared to death of it, and
I'm in the sort of all in, Iwant to learn about it, I want
to use it.
I think it'll be such a greattool for HR professionals to use
.
We were talking a little bitoffline.
If you can put your handbook,say, in a large language model
(27:46):
and the employee can go in andjust type up a question oh, what
is the bereavement policy?
Bam, they get an answer in twoseconds and they don't need to
call HR and things like that andit'll be very self-service.
And benefits you have benefitquestions?
Hey, upload your benefitsdocumentation.
You can ask hey, how does thiswork, what's my co-pay, what's
my deduct?
How does this work, what's myco-pay, what's my deductible on
(28:09):
this plan?
And I just see it as being sucha time saver and honestly,
nobody in HR likes answeringthose questions.
You can be the most Well, andyour employees don't like
calling you to ask them either.
No, they don't.
Mike Coffey (28:24):
They would rather be able to get the answer easily
, and so if you've got awell-designed, well-informed
chat bot of some sort that givesthem the answer accurately,
quickly, that's what they end upand maybe they can do it, you
know, after hours.
I mean, maybe their kid breakstheir leg at a soccer game on a
Saturday afternoon and they needto figure out.
(28:46):
How do I figure out?
Which ER do I take them to tomake sure it's covered on my
plan?
Hr is not in.
They, you know, and certainlytheir broker's not going to
answer the phone.
If they could get online andsee that stuff and you know and
have, you know, secure access toit, know exactly what their
plan is, that's like a nobrainer to me and talk about
(29:06):
employee engagement right there.
okay, you know, their problemwas solved right away and
somebody in HR didn't have tostop what they were doing and
take that time and then havethat interruption and then try
to re-engage in whatever they'reworking on.
Then here comes the phone again.
Warren (29:23):
So yeah, that's probably the number one skill set needed
in HR is being able to getinterrupted and hop back on, and
because the busier you are, themore interruptions you're going
to get.
Oh sure, I had a quick questionabout this.
You have a day when it's a slowday.
It's a completely slow daybecause nobody's interrupting.
You're saying, oh, let's seewhat's going on.
(29:44):
Manage by walking around.
Mike Coffey (29:53):
Go around and talk to people on those slow days and
things like that, and that'shard to do.
But that's one of the thingsthat when I was in frontline HR
and even now that I run mycompany I've got an amazing team
but I have time that's blockedoff on my calendar, that phone
calls don't come in, emailsdon't get looked at and unless
somebody's bleeding to death Idon't let them interrupt me
because I need that deep work,that focus, and I just say this
(30:15):
is the time I'm doing that.
And then I have days where Iset aside nothing.
But you know you can scheduleall the meetings on these days
and so you know I give you knowwe use schedule once.
You know some people usecalendarly to let people set
appointments and I've just gotcertain days of the week that
are, you know, at least two daysa week where people can
schedule a meeting.
(30:36):
You know on my calendar and ifthey've got the link there, you
know they can schedule a meetingand it's somebody I probably
want to talk to.
But then I protect Tuesdays andThursdays from those kinds of
things and you know if my teamneeds me they can get me.
But they know, leave Mike alonewhen my cat and they honestly my
calendar and they see thingsare blocked off, they know why
(30:58):
and that makes a giantdifference.
But because that interruptioncost there's so much, there've
been, there's so much.
You know scientific research.
Now that you research, now thatyou're in that deep work, you
get interrupted and then it's 10or 15 minutes before you can
really get back into flow and soyou waste so much time and so
much mental cognition is justwasted trying to get back into
(31:20):
it.
So I think that's one of thethings I tell young emerging
professionals is find the timeto do that deep work that you're
not interrupted, where you canreally bring your best attention
to your work.
I think too many professionalsare slaves to the technology now
(31:41):
and the interruptions and thedinging and the binging and the
buzzing I think it keeps us fromdelivering our very best.
Warren (31:51):
Well, on the flip side of people like you and I, who
are interested and I want to seewhere AI takes HR, but you have
the opposite people, the peoplethat, oh, this is going to cost
me my job and this isn't goingto.
You know, is it going to costyou your job?
Probably not.
I heard this saying any numberof times and I've always
(32:13):
attributed it to Tim Sackett.
Mike Coffey (32:17):
I heard him say I know what you're going to say
because I heard him at the GrandCayman HR Association in.
May of 2023 speak.
That was a junket.
I didn't need to go to that HRconference, but it was good to
go to Graham Kamen, but I heardhim speak and I know what you're
going to say.
Warren (32:33):
You're not going to lose your job to AI.
You're going to lose your jobto someone who knows AI.
Mike Coffey (32:37):
Who's using AI?
Yeah, ai, yeah, that's thefirst time I heard that Good.
I've always credited to himwhen I repeat it, and I repeat
it, and I've had Tim on the showtoo.
Warren (32:47):
Yeah.
Mike Coffey (32:47):
And he's a super sharp guy and he's always been
one of the most creative HRthinkers out there as far as
cutting edge stuff.
Warren (32:58):
Yeah, you know I miss HR famous podcasts, you know,
because I would have definitelyinvited them but they didn't
meet the criteria.
They haven't published episodesin quite a while.
But you know, one thing I do isall these podcasts that go stop
publishing.
I still keep them in mysubscription list and then every
once in a while, like a hostilework environment it went away
(33:20):
for a long time.
It came back and it's gone awayagain and other ones.
I just maybe they'll come back.
Surfing Corporate came backrecently, so if you keep it in
your feed, maybe it'll come back, so and you'll get to enjoy it
again.
But yeah, I used to reallyenjoy HR Famous.
And when you said that, that isthe best AI line I think I've
ever heard, because you caneither embrace it and is it
(33:42):
going to cost your job?
Probably not.
But what's going to make is theHR department.
You were talking about thisbefore we started recording.
You're going to need fewerpeople, but that doesn't mean a
job elimination Just as we grow.
Hey, I'm not going to add youup.
You've got that talent.
Mike Coffey (33:56):
Now that you can develop and bring more value to
the organization.
Let those people growprofessionally.
You're not going to be trappedinto saying, okay, I've already
(34:18):
trained this person to do thisjob and I really you know, we've
all you know if we've managedvery long, we've had that really
key player in that one role andwe're just like, oh, it really
hurts to think about trainingsomebody else to do this job,
even though it's the best thingfor this employee and for the
company over time.
But we will free people up todo more creative work, to do
(34:40):
stuff that brings more joy tothem than just putting tab A and
slot A all day, which is reallywhat AI is best for right now.
Warren (34:48):
Exactly.
I want to see where it takes us.
I think there's so many greatopportunities.
Actually, here's a situationAporia, I'm in grad school now
and I'm not going to name theclasses, some classes.
I got a syllabus recently andthe syllabus talks about the
(35:08):
honor code and all this.
And it goes.
This instructor, their syllabushas a paragraph AI is against
the honor code.
It's the only one I've seenthat has it.
And you know, use will besubject to disciplinary action.
Yada, yada, yada.
And I'm like okay For thewriting I have to do for my
classes.
I write it 100% myself, but Ido load it up into ChatGBT and I
(35:34):
say please make suggestions forclarity, grammar structure,
things like that.
And it's amazing that it knowswhat I mean when I say grammar,
structure, clarity, and youcould do this or, you know, say
this or reorder it this way, andit's great.
And I'm not using it to writemy papers, as that's all my
(35:57):
original content, but it didn'tmake it so it's legible to or
readable to, the instructor.
Oh yeah, I would do that allday and I'm going to still
continue, even though it'sforbidden.
Uh, I'm still gonna continue todo that because it's I'm not
generating material out of it,but I've watched a youtube, a
person writing it and and Ithink you even did you asked one
(36:21):
of your webinars to chat gbt tocite their sources right, and
the citations are there.
So I mean, wow, but I don't useit that way.
I still that's the older guy inme that I'm going to do it
myself, but I'll let the systemcorrect me and make suggestions
and fix my mistakes.
Mike Coffey (36:41):
Well, and you're you know you and I are of the
same generation.
When Google came out, I mean Iremember there were.
You know we were hearingstories about.
You know college professors andhigh school teachers saying, no
, you can't use the Internet todo your research, everything has
to be in a book and you canonly go to the library.
(37:03):
And you know that seems soantiquated now.
And I think that's the samething with AI.
Michael Sherrod from TexasChristian University is a
pioneer in the digital world ingeneral.
He worked for the localnewspaper here in Fort Worth,
the Star-Telegram, in the 80s.
So when I'm in high school hewas working for the
Star-Telegram and they were thefirst newspaper to go digital in
(37:27):
the country.
They were the first one to havean online and it was a dial-up.
You know 1440 modem, that wholething.
And I remember because Isubscribed to it when I was in
high school.
It was called Star Text and sohe left there and he had a lot
of tech startups and he's anentrepreneur in residence or
(37:50):
something over there at TCU nowand teaches over there and he's
been on the podcast and talkingabout AI and he tells his
students that basically, yeah,you can use AI, but be ready to
fully defend whatever you turnin.
And it kind of goes back to thelaw school kind of approach
(38:11):
where, okay, let me take yourpaper Now, let's defend it.
And one of my best friends isJim Zeta, who's a career
plaintiff's attorney, who'spretty retired now.
He teaches at Texas A&M Law heand at TCU in business, in the
business school, and he tellshis students the same thing yeah
, use it.
You need to know how to use this, but you also have to watch out
(38:33):
for the inaccuracies, thehallucinations, and be willing
to you know, to defend what youpublish.
And I think that's going to bethe route we all have to go.
It's you know.
I see these on the HR boards.
I see people complaining aboutwell, their cover letters on
their resumes are clearlywritten by ChatGPT.
And I'm like well, first of all, why are you requiring cover
(38:55):
letters anymore?
I mean, really, are you readingcover letters and evaluating
candidates based on the contentof the cover letter?
And, second of all, yeah,that's who you want.
You want somebody who is goingto be efficient and not spend
four hours writing a memo thatnobody's going to read.
Warren (39:13):
Like our podcast starts off with.
Had you actually read the email, or a little disclaimer at the
beginning?
Yeah, both my children.
In North Carolina we have thesethings called early colleges,
so basically the kids willfinish ninth through 12th grade
in two years, and so it's reallycompressed, it's not easy work.
(39:33):
And then the second two yearsof high school they're getting
their associate's degree.
That's great and it is.
It saves me so far.
It saved me four years ofcollege tuition.
But the principal at the school, he's given his spiel to the
parents as you have to apply andbe accepted to the program.
But the principal is sittingthere, you know, saying that he
(39:54):
encourages the students to usetheir cell phones, use their
technology available to them inclass, because the important
thing is not being able to getgetting the answer from a book,
it's being able to come up withan answer.
You don't need rote memoryanymore to know.
You know the Gettysburg Address, you know the preamble to the
Constitution, you know welearned it through Schoolhouse
Rock.
Mike Coffey (40:14):
But they don't have that anymore.
Conjunction junction yeah.
Warren (40:16):
Conjunction, yeah, but he said kids don't rely on and
they need to develop thecritical thinking skills to
research appropriately.
You know, this site is alegitimate site and worth
getting or worth citing, andthis is this one's clickbait
junk or whatever you want tocall it.
That's not going to give youanything and I really
(40:38):
appreciated that and I thinkit's.
It's helped both my, mychildren and their, their
careers, their educationalcareers, so Well and the, the.
Mike Coffey (40:47):
The skill we need to be teaching people is how to
synthesize what they've learnedor what the information they
have at their hand and implementit.
How do I synthesize this andsolve a problem with it?
That's the thing that AI is notgoing to do.
It's not going to solveproblems creatively, especially
where you need it In the HRworld.
(41:08):
We need empathy creatively,especially where you need it In
the HR world.
We need empathy, and people arenever going to be happy with a
robot letting them go or a robotdoing the interview and making
the employment selection.
That's not the experience thatpeople want to.
A good friend of mine, bethStanley, has spent a career in
sales.
She's a sales trainer and shewrote a book.
People Buy from People and Ithink that's true in so many
(41:32):
ways.
I mean, we're all sellingsomething and people want to
deal with people, and untiluntil we really get to that
level of full you know, skynet,uh robot that is is
indistinguishable people aregoing to want to know that
there's a person on the otherend of this transaction and in
this communication.
(41:52):
So I'm less worried about it.
I'm like you.
I'm very bullish on AI.
I think there's a need forguardrails, because I've talked
to plenty of HR people in thelast couple of years who have
reached out and said, hey, youknow a lot about this.
My CEO says we have to startusing AI, and that's just it.
(42:14):
Just use AI for the sake ofusing AI.
And where do I start?
And I'm like, well, that's thewrong question.
The question is what problemsdo you need to solve in your
organization and what's theright tool to solve it?
Just because you have a hammerdoesn't mean everything's a nail
, so your most importantproblems may not be AI problems.
So let's solve your mostimportant problems and then
(42:36):
maybe you'll eventually get to aproblem where AI is helpful,
and I think that idea we have touse it just because it's the
hot thing.
Well, you remember what is it?
Five years, six years ago,everybody was talking about how
blockchain was going torevolutionize HR, and when was
the last time you heard that?
Warren (42:53):
So, yeah, you know and I was a little bit drinking the
Kool-Aid on the blockchainbecause I would love to have a
defined.
You know, this was their trueemployment history.
That almost I mean it's alittle big brother honestly and
that's not me, but trueemployment history that almost I
mean it's a little big brotherhonestly and that's not me, but
(43:13):
your employment history.
It's right there and it'suneditable, or you know, and and
things like that.
So I just I thought that thatwas going to be cool.
I think it's probably still gotsome it's.
It's not going to be everythingeverybody was saying four or
five years ago about blockchain,but it I think.
I think we'll see some of thatstill.
Mike Coffey (43:28):
Oh, I think it's going to be, but it's not going
to.
It's not doing what theythought it was going to do.
It's not being adopted at therate it is.
It's going to be part of thetechnology.
It's in part of whateversolutions we have.
In and of itself, it's not thesolution.
And I can tell you, I spend waytoo much time in Coinbase
looking at my current Bitcoinvalues, because they skyrocket
(43:52):
and they drop back down and Ithink I should have sold, and
then I start going back up and Ithink I'm not going to sell.
So my blockchain experience hasbeen mostly Bitcoin and it's
just another reason I have totake yoga classes every day.
Warren (44:08):
Raise that blood pressure.
Well, I don't want to take yogaclasses every day, so raise
that blood pressure.
Well, I don't want to take toomuch of our time we're coming on
in.
So Good Morning HR.
They drop episodes everyThursday.
Like I said, I listen to it onFridays because I work from home
on Thursdays and so you're,like I said, my Friday morning
commuting partner.
But be sure to check it out.
You can download it on all yourfavorite podcast players and
(44:31):
check it out and you know, evenif you don't need the research
credits, it's going to be wellworth your time.
Top quality guests, I think Imentioned to you in one of the
earlier emails I had to you.
I really one of my hot buttontopics is neurodiversity, and
you've had really great guestsbecause neurodiversity is
onediversity and you've hadreally great guests because
(44:52):
neurodiversity is one of thosetopics where there's a lot of
people selling a lot of BS outthere and you know Pine Sky.
When you have people who reallyunderstand neurodiversity, it
makes because I go in when Ihear somebody's a neurodiversity
expert will be speaking on itfor HR related, I go in with the
(45:13):
most cynical.
I'm ready to pounce on them andtear them apart and, like I
said, the guests you've had thatyou brought on talking about it
have been really good andthoughtful and really know what
they're speaking about.
But every time I hear thattopic and related to HR, I'm to,
I'm, I'm like I'm chomping atthat, I'm going to, I'm going to
troll them, I'm going to slamthem.
Andrew Quilpa (45:35):
I'm not going to let them.
Warren (45:36):
I'm going to have my flame floor ready, the first
mistake they make, and there'stoo many out there to give me
that opportunity.
But I've got actually the okay,you're full of crap, and I just
mark his plate and move to thenext step.
Mike Coffey (45:49):
Well, and that's kind of you know, HR and just
business podcast in general,there'll be something that's a
hot topic for a while andeverybody jumps in feet first
and everybody's an expert inthis or that, and and then you
find out most of them don't knowwhat they're really talking
about.
(46:09):
And, like with AI, I admit, youknow, I'm learning this is what
I've done so far, you know butI'm not coding stuff in Python,
building a lot of APIs my teamdoes, but I, you know, I'm not
doing a lot of that.
I'm mostly using large languagemodels and understanding how
our enterprise systems work andare being implemented, but I'm
(46:31):
not a coder.
But we saw it with the EI andunfortunately for the good
things that need to happen inthat space, a lot of charlatans
jumped into that space in 2020.
And we've had conversations onthe podcast where I bumped head
with not charlatans but peoplewho see differently on some of
those issues as far as how toaccomplish what we want to
(46:52):
accomplish in that space.
And I think neurodiversity hasbecome a topic that's
approaching that kind of levelwhere a lot of you know, a lot
of people agree and want to, youknow, want to open up their
workplaces to folks who, justyou know, see the world
different and interactdifferently.
But there are a lot of peoplewho are just hey, this is a way
(47:15):
to make a quick buck or to addsomething to my resume, and I
think that's a shame Becausethose speakers, a lot of them
that are right now talking about, say, neurodiversity.
Warren (47:27):
You know, two years ago they were the DEI experts and
before that they were whateverexpert it is.
So that's my jaded, cynicaloutlook.
So, anyways, please listen toGood Morning HR, a great podcast
to be listed on our Must ListenTo podcast.
So, Mike, thank you very muchfor joining us.
(47:49):
I really, really appreciate it.
As we, as we exit, I want tothank our voice artist, Andrew
Culpa, who does the introductionand the intro and outro.
Music is the underscoreorchestra devil, the devil.
So I'm Warren, I'm Mike, andwe're here helping you survive
HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Be well.
(48:10):
And we're here helping yousurvive hr one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Be well.
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:51):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough to workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren and I'm Mike, not CC, exactly.
We've kicked the kids out ofthe room.
All my co-hosts have alwaysbeen younger than me, and so now
we've got some Gen Xers herethat are going to take over the
whole podcast.
So all you whippersnappers andZoomers out there.
(01:13):
You're going to have to put upwith us for a little bit of time
.
But, as you hear, we have MikeCoffey on with us today.
He is the host of Good MorningHR and this is actually the
first episode of our Must listento podcast series we're going
to do, and so for the next fewweeks we're going to be bringing
on guests who host otherpodcasts to have them tell about
(01:35):
their podcast.
But I want to give you somebackground on how we got here.
Cece and I were talking andthere's all sorts of best
podcast lists out there andJaded HR has made a few of them.
But there was one that someonetagged me on once and I looked
at it and it was by anotherpodcaster and it was an order
(01:56):
list.
This list is not ordered.
The order is by who can comeand be online with us at what
time and work into our schedule.
But these are justmust-listen-to podcasts.
But this one list we put intoJaded HR was listed on and be
online with us at what time andwork into our schedule.
But these are just must listento podcasts.
But this one list we put intowe Jaded HR was listed on.
I think we're like seven oreight or whatever.
It doesn't matter.
But the host of the listcreator was host of podcast
number two and I just got alaugh out of it and that podcast
(02:21):
isn't around anymore.
And the other podcast liststhat you see out there are done
like clickbaity.
Some I haven't posted episodesfor a long time or others are
just not good episodes.
So I wanted to have something.
I came up with Criteria had tobe actively recording and have
an episode in the last threemonths was one of them.
(02:42):
It cannot be a corporate shillsales job on that.
Like there's some HRIS systemsthat have a podcast where
they're you know they're talkingHR, but it's it's talking their
HRIS.
Mike Coffey (02:54):
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a
nail, and that's kind of whatthey exactly.
Warren (03:00):
I didn't want those and I wanted to be real list of
podcasts.
The CC and I discussed thesepodcasts that we're inviting on
and we said, yep, we'll havethis one, and we had some
discussion Should we includethis, should we not include this
?
And we haven't made our list.
But we have to listen to themand I think they're quality
enough to rank as our list.
Who knows?
We've got a number of otherhosts coming on already
(03:22):
scheduled and we're trying toarrange a few more.
Hopefully, get this Must ListenTo podcast to carry through the
rest of the year.
But before I go too muchfurther, I want to thank our
Patreon supporters.
We have Hallie, the originalJaded HR rock star, and then we
have Bill and Michael as well.
So thank you for your continuedsupport.
But let's get things started.
(03:42):
So, mike, you are beyond thehost of Good Morning HR.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Mike Coffey (03:49):
Well, I'm a career HR guy who was in aerospace and
then healthcare and then lefthealthcare and started
consulting.
And then one of my earlyconsulting clients was a
nationwide financial servicescompany.
They'd had a big internal theftand they brought me in to come
(04:10):
in.
I mean, like the FBI isinvolved, is that kind of
company?
And they brought me in to do anaudit of their employee
selection process because theFBI was like holding this
person's rap sheet and said whydid you hire her?
And and they clearly, amongother things, needed better
background checks.
And I had run that for thehealthcare system that I'd
(04:31):
worked for and and you know thatwas pre internet that's how old
I am and so I had to become anexpert, you know, from the
employer side of the desk onthat stuff for that.
And so one thing led to another, and actually I was they, they,
they suggested their VP of HRwas an attorney, had a and just
I've always I was always kind ofthe HR compliance wonk and he
(04:54):
said, well, why don't you justdo this for us?
Cause you understand all thisbackground check stuff, you know
, cause we'd put out RFPs anddidn't like the results that
came back and he and I said I'dhave to go get a PI license.
You know, I mean, here in Texasyou have a private
investigator's license to dothat.
I have to go do that and I hadto.
I mean, it's hiring people.
I'm not sure this.
You know, this is what I'mgoing to do a long-term.
(05:25):
And I came like, oh well, therewe go.
And so here we are, 25 yearslater he's an engineer and I've
got three amazing boys and I'vepaid for colleges with this and
got an amazing team that doesall the hard work and lets me do
the fun stuff.
I still work with clients tosolve people issues.
I've I will never write anotheremployee handbook or anything
(05:48):
like that, but I still do a lotaround employee relations,
employee selection stuff.
But you know, my bread andbutter is really, you know it's
imperative.
We do, you know, just like Ialways say you know, bulletproof
background checks, for withfast and friendly service we
just we cater to really riskaverse clients and it's not just
employment background checks.
We do due diligence for privateequity firms, family offices,
(06:13):
vendor selection.
We have a really large CPA firmthat before they take on an
audit client, they have us dodue diligence on the principles
of the company so they know whothey're getting in bed with.
So basically it's peoplerelated stuff.
So that's where, that's whatyou know, that's what I pay for
all my kids' college andprobation fees with.
Is that kind of?
(06:34):
Is that part of it?
But I get to spend most of mytime doing fun stuff, speaking
at conferences.
I'm really involved in TexasSHRM and support chapters across
the state.
We've got 32 chapters here inTexas and so I do a lot with
those folks, and so I just kindof live the dream.
Warren (06:56):
Hey, it sounds great.
So what made you decide tocreate the podcast?
Good Morning HR.
How did you get to that point?
Mike Coffey (07:04):
create the podcast.
Good Morning HR.
How did you get to that point?
Well, the thing called COVIDhappened and where I was
traveling, speaking atconferences and SHRM chapters
and knitting clubs anybody whohad listened to me I mean Rotary
, I didn't care, I wantedaudiences and that all stopped
and so I was kind of climbingthe walls and then we, you know,
(07:25):
we had sent all our employeeshome.
They were all working remoteand I just needed I needed to
meet some people.
And you know we're in Texas, soyou know everything shut down
in March and by June we wereFrench kissing strangers on the
street.
You know we didn't stay reallylocked down that long, but a lot
of the big meetings weren'thappening and so I had had the.
(07:47):
Actually I did a podcast forAustin HR about 10 or 12 years
ago, for about a year, and Ireally enjoyed it.
But just because you know, withSHRM chapters, people, you know
, officers change and people aredifferent, people are in charge
of different things, andsuddenly that just wasn't a
priority.
So it's kind of withered up anddied, but I really had enjoyed
(08:09):
it.
So I said, well, let's, youknow, let's kick that back up
and that'll get me, you know,meeting new people, interesting
people, and my one superpower isasking, you know, dumb
questions of smart people.
So I get to play to my talentsand so I started doing that and
I've got a great team.
My marketing coordinator,marianne Hernandez, is awesome.
(08:33):
I've got an amazing producer,rob Upchurch, who does all the
hard work.
So all I have to do is ask dumbquestions to smart people, and
so it makes it pretty easy.
But the funny thing about thename Good Morning HR we went
through everything we couldthink to, because the old
podcast back when we were doingwith Austin HR was called the
Imperative Podcast and I didn'twant that and we kept you know,
and everybody was pushing me hey, it's a podcast.
(08:55):
You should say you know, it'syour morning coffee C-O-F-F-E-Y,
because that's my last name andmy initials are M-R.
Michael Ray Coffee, m-r.
So when, and I, my initials aremr michael ray coffee, mr.
So when I was in aerospace, mybadge says mr coffee.
Yeah, thanks a lot, mom.
I appreciate that.
And so I wasn't.
And so coffee jokes I mean, I'm55, I've listened to them for
55 years, so I'm gonna do that.
(09:18):
And then I started thinking well, I own probably 40 or 50 domain
names, because every time I getan idea for something, I
registered the domain name.
Then I just keep renewing it.
I mean, dotster makes so muchmoney off of me and so I started
going through those, andthere's one that I had
registered in 2012 called GoodMorning HR, and I remember the
conference I was sitting in.
(09:38):
There was somebody talkingabout Web 2.0 at this conference
and talking about how youreally needed to have, and I
registered from my phone myearly iPhone that domain name
right there, and I'm not, andI've paid for it for all these
years and never used it.
And I said, hey, how about goodmorning HR?
And everybody said, oh, that's,that's better than the mic show
, so let's go with that.
And so that's that's wherewe're at.
Warren (10:01):
That's funny.
12 is and I don't have the.
I'll have to look up the date,probably when I first registered
jaded hrs I it started as ablog and I was like so many
blogs out there start outgangbusters, and then, you know,
a year or two in I'm like onepost a month.
I would go from like everyother day to one post a month
and I didn't have a lot of.
(10:21):
I had a few hundred, uh, uh,you know, visits a month to my
page and it was just like.
So I ended up I kept the domain, I just took the blog down.
But yeah, that's that's howthis started, in that we
actually I actually got the ideato bring back the Jaded HR in
form of a podcast.
(10:42):
Patrick and I, we used to worktogether.
Hr in the form of a podcast.
Patrick and I, we used to worktogether.
He was our first co-host andthen I left the company and he's
actually still there and theThanksgiving before COVID, I
just bounced the idea off of him.
I said or maybe a little biteven earlier than that, I said,
hey, I have this idea, I want tobring back Jaded HR and bring
it as a podcast.
(11:04):
And he was on board and it wasso funny.
We got together the team, thecompany that both Patrick and I
used to work for.
Everybody else other thanPatrick left At some point we
had a lunch over Thanksgivingthat year, right before COVID,
and so Patrick and I have anannouncement to make and
everybody went all crazy and nowit's nothing crazy, we're just
making a podcast and things likethat.
(11:25):
But yeah, that in podcasting isso much easier than blogging
and it's so much more fun too.
It really is, and I reallyappreciate it, and it seems like
it's an easier way to get yourword out there than than
blogging.
And you know, the JDA HR doeshave a webpage and a blog, which
is completely unattended.
But yeah, I need to spend sometime on that, so, anyhow.
(11:47):
Now, one thing I really likeabout Good Morning HR is you
give the HRCI credits.
I was telling you all fair.
I'm just barely over a year inmy certification cycle and I've
already got of the 60, I'veprobably got 50 research credits
and most you know I go toconferences and things like that
, but overall, most of them arefrom Good Morning HR at half an
(12:12):
hour, 75.75 or full hour, andI've done some of your webinars
as well.
So if you are a certifiedprofessional, this is probably
the best way to get yourcertification credits.
It's great because I'mlistening to podcasts anyway and
, like I said, yours is highquality, good guests.
(12:33):
I love your guests and we'retalking off air about you
getting your guests, but itseems like most of them seem to
be drawn from your SHRMnetworking, you seem to have a.
You know you've known thisperson 20 years and you've known
this person 15 years and thingslike that.
So you have good guests whospeak well on their topics and I
really appreciate it.
And another thing you're nottrying to sell anything you do
(12:56):
like what a 30 second?
Mike Coffey (12:58):
Yeah, there's a, there's.
We've got a two minute cap onme talking about imperative in
the center, and that's just sothat I can justify to my
accountants that this is amarketing expense, because
really it's a passion thing forme, it's something.
Andrew Quilpa (13:11):
I just enjoy doing.
Mike Coffey (13:12):
But the HRCI and SHRM research credits have
certainly gotten a lot ofattention and made it popular,
because there's not manypodcasts out there that go
through the effort to really getthose things pre-approved and
registered.
But we did that all along.
We've been doing webinars foryears and at any given time I've
got between 15 and 20 hours ofwebinars on the website that
(13:35):
people can just go watch forfree and get credit.
And most of them have nothingto do, and I think my webinars
are kind of like the podcast.
They almost have nothing to dowith what I actually sell, where
I make my revenue on thebackground check.
Most of them are around otherissues like AI, which has become
a big topic for us, and justthings I'm interested in.
It gives me a way to have anexcuse to go explore something
(13:55):
and create a webinar on it.
But they're all HRCI and SHRMcredit.
In fact, Mary Ann, ourmarketing coordinator, told me
last week and I think she saidit was 70,000.
We've given away 70,000 HRCIand SHRM research credits just
from Good Morning HR in 170episodes.
So that's got to put us on alist someplace, I think.
(14:17):
But it's certainly it's free,and I'm a big supporter of SHRM
chapters and I think everybodyshould be part of their, their
local HR community, whether it'sa SHRM group or something else,
and, you know, participate inDisrupt HR or whatever comes
along.
But, and certainly HR Southwestis, you know, our home, our
(14:38):
state conference here in Texasand I've spoken at it every year
for ever and wouldn't miss itfor the world.
But you know a lot of folks,especially in a state like Texas
where you've got so many ruralareas that don't have, you know,
maybe they've got a local SHRMchapter or maybe the nearest
one's 45 minutes or two hoursaway, and so them having a way
(14:59):
to get research credit and stilllearn something and stay up on
current things, I think is justreally important.
So it's, you know, it's kind ofa privilege in a lot of ways
that people you know that theylisten to me and that I'm able
to help them.
I was at a conference and we'resitting around at a dinner, at a
table having lunch, and I wastalking to the person next to me
(15:19):
and the person on my.
You know, I was talking to theperson on my right and the
person on my left tapped me onthe shoulder and said, hey, are
you that podcast guy?
And and he just heard my voiceand and and I said, yeah, yeah,
hi, it's good to meet you.
And he said, you know, yousound like Kermit the frog.
I'm like, okay, well, that'sgreat, well, thank you, but I
listened to your podcast.
Warren (15:41):
Oh, okay, yeah, Kermit the frog, I haven't been
identified yet, but I don't do alot of.
I'm not out in the public as asmuch as you are, but I, I love
it.
I you know.
I consider you my fridaymorning of commuting partners.
I have an hour and a halfcommute now.
I do listen to all my podcasts.
The minimum I listen to is at1.5x, depending on the podcast
(16:05):
and the topic.
I'll go as high as two things,but and I can't listen at one X
anymore I am completely.
I get frustrated like hurry upand speak.
Do you listen.
Yeah, I do the sameEverything's usually at 1.25.
Mike Coffey (16:22):
And I listened to.
I listened to a lot of ofpodcasts too, and there's a
handful of them that you know Ihave to hear every week.
They're just part of my routine.
But I also listen to a lot ofaudible audiobooks.
I've been yes, I've been doingaudible since like 99.
I've got, you know, thousandsof titles in my library now and,
uh, I listen to most of thoseat like one and a half times,
(16:43):
unless it's a, you know,especially like right now I'm
reading a book called Breath andit's about healthy breathing
and it's all this stuff and it'sinteresting.
But I can listen to it prettyfast.
But if it's a good narrativenovel, like fiction, I'll listen
to it at a normal pace becausethose voice actors are so good
on those things, and so I'lllisten to it that way, at normal
speed.
Warren (17:03):
Actors are so good on those things, and so I'll listen
to it that way at normal speed.
Well, speaking of breath, Ithink that probably ties in your
other.
Your other hobby is a yogainstructor.
Yeah.
You speak about on your thing.
So that must be perfect for HRfolks because, lord knows, we,
we, I had a day to day,stressful days and and things
like that, so that you couldsell your yoga instructing to,
(17:27):
to HR professionals and have agreat market right there.
Just a HR only yoga studio.
Mike Coffey (17:33):
And yeah, I've been practicing 15 years and I
started cause I tore up my knee.
You remember the P90X, youremember that you get to see the
DVDs and do that.
I tore my meniscus doingjumping jacks and P90X on Berber
carpet in our living room and Ihad the surgery and it still
felt crunchy.
And a friend of mine who playssoccer, who's my age, and he at
(17:56):
the time was in his 40s andplayed soccer at a pretty
competitive level for his age,and he said, hey, you should try
this hot yoga.
It's going to really make adifference in your knee.
And I'm like I'm not doing yogaand but it just never.
My knee never felt quite rightand so I finally went into yoga.
I went to a Bikram studio anddid that really hot yoga, 105
degrees, about 60% humidity inthe room for 90 minutes and I
(18:18):
did it for every day for a weekand I kept coming back and
within a month all thatcrunchiness, after they had
repaired it, had gone away in myknee.
And so I was.
I was hooked, and so it's been15 years.
So breathing is is big for me,but also just just, it's a great
low impact.
You know I'm 55 and you know itsometimes hurts to get out of
(18:42):
the chair and you know I hurt me, you know I hurt myself just
doing stupid stuff.
And so I found that when I'mreally, you know I practice or
teach just about every day.
You know I still do some weightsand some high intensity
interval training stuff, but Iwanted to teach.
I wanted to teach for years.
But making the time planningahead so that I had time to do
(19:06):
200 hours of teacher trainingwas challenging and I finally
decided I wanted to do it lastyear after 15 years of
practicing, and it was a matterof saying okay, I'm going to say
no to this conference, I'mgoing to say no to this
conference.
I'm not going to do this travelfor the fall so that I can get
all 200 hours of training in.
(19:26):
And now I teach four times aweek at the Core Power Yoga here
in Fort Worth Shout out to CorePower.
And I practice on top of that.
Those four classes I teach andusually four or five, really
five or six sometimes I'll stillpractice at least five times a
week, and so it's and I can tellmy sanity at the end of the day
(19:47):
is so much better if I was inthe yoga studio at 6 am than, if
I'm not, I'm kind of unbearableabout three or four in the
afternoon.
Warren (19:58):
Yeah, I don't do yoga or anything.
My wife and I.
Since we moved to where we arenow, we're in a very scenic area
and we do a walk and thewalking you know our standard
route is three miles and I cantell the difference of just the
stress and relaxation and wejust chit-chat and talk and have
our dog with us and it's great.
(20:19):
You need to get out.
You expend some energysomewhere.
Mike Coffey (20:23):
Well, and you know, you get to a certain age where
you start reading aboutlongevity with health.
And I have a 95-year-oldgrandmother who's a widow, who
lives by herself and is as toughas nails.
I mean you can't keep thoseDepression-era girls down, but
she's got her wits about her,she's strong and she just
(20:43):
maintained a different lifestylethan most Americans do today.
She's always active and evennow, at 95, I'm pretty convinced
every inch of her flooring isvacuumed or mopped every single
day.
And so she stays active and allthat and so, and when you start
reading about it, it's, you know, balance, you know core
(21:07):
strength and mental cognitionare the three things that you've
got to preserve in order tolive a long, healthy life.
And so I'm getting, you know,I'm really getting at least two
of those, you know, by stayingactive in yoga.
You know, my wife was a runnerand her knees kind of given up,
so she's practicing yoga, but wedo.
We walk a lot too, and that's agreat way just to clear your
(21:28):
head.
I just, you know, being activeis is really important, and I'm
certainly not a jock, I'm notcoordinated.
I mean, you know, I always sayI'm blind in my right eye and
I'm deaf in my left.
I can't do, you know, and nohand-eye coordination or
anything like that.
So yoga is perfect because youget to move at your own pace,
move with your own breath, and Ican walk too.
(21:49):
So that's, you know, thatdoesn't take a lot.
So, yeah, but I think it's, youknow, for me, it's made me
bearable to all the people in mylife, so it helps, oh yeah, I
just, you know I I've tried to.
Warren (22:01):
You know I used my moving as a trigger point for
I've got a new house I've gotten.
I used my moving as a triggerpoint for I've got a new house,
I'm in a new place.
I would change all these habitsand overall it's worked pretty
well.
I still don't I'm not perfect,but I've lost a lot of weight
since March when we moved andoverall I'm feeling better and
(22:22):
I'm more energized.
I'm just happier overall and,yeah, I think just getting a
little exercise works.
But let's see here, what do you?
You bring on any number ofguests.
And one thing I was sayingearlier I like about your guests
they come from your network butthey also they're not out there
.
Like a lot of the interviewstyle podcasts.
(22:42):
They're not out there sellingtheir latest book or a seminar.
And if you've listened to anyepisodes of JJ Archer, you know
HR.
You know that I am very anti.
I know you're a speaker, butthe keynote speakers who try
your best, do your hardest andthings like that have no
substance behind anything.
(23:03):
That's one of the things thatjust kills me when you go to a
seminar and somebody's got this.
That's one of the things thatjust kills me when you go to a
seminar and somebody has gotthis.
You know, rainbows andbutterflies, presentation that
has zero substance.
And then I it blows my mindwalking out and I'm just like,
I'm like what the fuck did Ijust listen to for an hour and
then so many people love that somany people love that stuff and
I'll go to the conference and alot of conferences I'll I'll go
(23:33):
to the conference and a lot ofconferences I'll.
Mike Coffey (23:34):
I'll skip the keynote unless it's somebody,
because you know, but evencelebrities, I don't care what
they think, and it's just notyou know, and so but, like, hr,
southwest is having Sam Rad,who's a futurist.
She calls herself a futuristanthropologist and she, her
writing is really interestingand she actually spoke to the
leadership of the Texas StateSHRM Council Texas State Council
for SHRM last year I think andit was just really really
(23:55):
interesting.
So I'm looking forward to herkeynote and in fact we're doing
two live episodes on the floorat HR Southwest this year.
Andrew Quilpa (24:03):
We've never, done that before.
Mike Coffey (24:04):
Yeah, it's walking without a tight rope and we'll
see it may be a total disaster,but, but she but I'm
interviewing her after herkeynote in front of a live
audience, so we'll see how thatplays out.
I like those, but I'm alwayslooking for something practical
to take away.
And that's the other thingabout giving HRCI and SHRM
(24:25):
research credit thing, abouthaving giving hrci and sherm
research credit you've got tohave at least three key learning
points in order to you know toreally justify it getting credit
and so.
But you know you get pitched, Iget pitched everybody I know
with a podcast as soon as you'vegot past nine episodes, which
puts you in about the top 10 ofpodcast ever don't tell me.
Warren (24:45):
I always say I'm in the top five percent of podcasts
don't tell them the secret, andso you know.
Mike Coffey (24:52):
But you know all the pr firms.
You know every company is outthere paying pr firms to get
their executives or their theirleaders out on podcasts, but you
know to sell their company oneway or the other and we just
really really avoid that.
I book very few guests that arecoming from that environment.
Now if they've published a book, I'll have them send me a
(25:15):
pre-release copy of the book andI like them to send it to me in
PDF because I can drop it inChatGPT and say give me the
highlights and in ChatGPT you'lljust read the PDF and give me a
really good synopsis and so Idon't have to actually sit down
and read it for three hours orfour hours.
And so I'll do authorssometimes, but most of it I
(25:35):
ignore the PR.
But I've got my network, got abig LinkedIn network, but also
I'm subscribed to way too manylocal SHRM chapters, monthly
newsletters or weeklynewsletters, emails or whatever
they do, and so I see who theirspeakers are and what they're
speaking about.
So I'll just cold reach out.
So I've had employment lawattorneys and HR consultants
(25:57):
from all over the country on thepodcast just because I saw that
they were speaking in thischapter.
I thought, oh, that's aninteresting topic, or I'd like
their perspective.
And I spend too much time onLinkedIn seeing what people are
saying about, you know, people,issues and leadership issues and
I'm saying, oh, I'd like to getthis person on, or I think this
person's full of shit.
I want let's let me get them onand and, and, you know, let's
engage and talk about it.
(26:18):
And we've had a few that havewhere we've butted heads, but
usually I, you know, my job is Isee it as not to be is to
facilitate the conversation, notto, not to debate somebody on
this.
But I have thought aboutstarting a second podcast, just
where I, you know, I, you know,be brave and call bullshit that
kind of thing.
Warren (26:37):
And so I'd subscribe to that one too.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I, I loveit.
But you sort of walked rightinto the topic we wanted to
cover today Talk about puttingthe books into ChatGPT.
But you seem to be verypassionate about artificial
intelligence.
Beyond talking about it on yourshow, you've done several
(26:58):
webinars on it.
I love the one with the deepfake my coffee.
That was really cool.
I actually pulled that up andshowed it to my assistant.
This is really cool the way youdid that, and you did another
one not too long ago on AI aswell, so it's a topic that you
seem to be pretty interested in.
So I think there's only AI isvery dividing, like everything
(27:22):
else in the country right now,but the people who love it and
are really all in and the peopleare scared to death of it, and
I'm in the sort of all in, Iwant to learn about it, I want
to use it.
I think it'll be such a greattool for HR professionals to use
.
We were talking a little bitoffline.
If you can put your handbook,say, in a large language model
(27:46):
and the employee can go in andjust type up a question oh, what
is the bereavement policy?
Bam, they get an answer in twoseconds and they don't need to
call HR and things like that andit'll be very self-service.
And benefits you have benefitquestions?
Hey, upload your benefitsdocumentation.
You can ask hey, how does thiswork, what's my co-pay, what's
my deduct?
How does this work, what's myco-pay, what's my deductible on
(28:09):
this plan?
And I just see it as being sucha time saver and honestly,
nobody in HR likes answeringthose questions.
You can be the most Well, andyour employees don't like
calling you to ask them either.
No, they don't.
Mike Coffey (28:24):
They would rather be able to get the answer easily
, and so if you've got awell-designed, well-informed
chat bot of some sort that givesthem the answer accurately,
quickly, that's what they end upand maybe they can do it, you
know, after hours.
I mean, maybe their kid breakstheir leg at a soccer game on a
Saturday afternoon and they needto figure out.
(28:46):
How do I figure out?
Which ER do I take them to tomake sure it's covered on my
plan?
Hr is not in.
They, you know, and certainlytheir broker's not going to
answer the phone.
If they could get online andsee that stuff and you know and
have, you know, secure access toit, know exactly what their
plan is, that's like a nobrainer to me and talk about
(29:06):
employee engagement right there.
okay, you know, their problemwas solved right away and
somebody in HR didn't have tostop what they were doing and
take that time and then havethat interruption and then try
to re-engage in whatever they'reworking on.
Then here comes the phone again.
Warren (29:23):
So yeah, that's probably the number one skill set needed
in HR is being able to getinterrupted and hop back on, and
because the busier you are, themore interruptions you're going
to get.
Oh sure, I had a quick questionabout this.
You have a day when it's a slowday.
It's a completely slow daybecause nobody's interrupting.
You're saying, oh, let's seewhat's going on.
(29:44):
Manage by walking around.
Mike Coffey (29:53):
Go around and talk to people on those slow days and
things like that, and that'shard to do.
But that's one of the thingsthat when I was in frontline HR
and even now that I run mycompany I've got an amazing team
but I have time that's blockedoff on my calendar, that phone
calls don't come in, emailsdon't get looked at and unless
somebody's bleeding to death Idon't let them interrupt me
because I need that deep work,that focus, and I just say this
(30:15):
is the time I'm doing that.
And then I have days where Iset aside nothing.
But you know you can scheduleall the meetings on these days
and so you know I give you knowwe use schedule once.
You know some people usecalendarly to let people set
appointments and I've just gotcertain days of the week that
are, you know, at least two daysa week where people can
schedule a meeting.
(30:36):
You know on my calendar and ifthey've got the link there, you
know they can schedule a meetingand it's somebody I probably
want to talk to.
But then I protect Tuesdays andThursdays from those kinds of
things and you know if my teamneeds me they can get me.
But they know, leave Mike alonewhen my cat and they honestly my
calendar and they see thingsare blocked off, they know why
(30:58):
and that makes a giantdifference.
But because that interruptioncost there's so much, there've
been, there's so much.
You know scientific research.
Now that you research, now thatyou're in that deep work, you
get interrupted and then it's 10or 15 minutes before you can
really get back into flow and soyou waste so much time and so
much mental cognition is justwasted trying to get back into
(31:20):
it.
So I think that's one of thethings I tell young emerging
professionals is find the timeto do that deep work that you're
not interrupted, where you canreally bring your best attention
to your work.
I think too many professionalsare slaves to the technology now
(31:41):
and the interruptions and thedinging and the binging and the
buzzing I think it keeps us fromdelivering our very best.
Warren (31:51):
Well, on the flip side of people like you and I, who
are interested and I want to seewhere AI takes HR, but you have
the opposite people, the peoplethat, oh, this is going to cost
me my job and this isn't goingto.
You know, is it going to costyou your job?
Probably not.
I heard this saying any numberof times and I've always
(32:13):
attributed it to Tim Sackett.
Mike Coffey (32:17):
I heard him say I know what you're going to say
because I heard him at the GrandCayman HR Association in.
May of 2023 speak.
That was a junket.
I didn't need to go to that HRconference, but it was good to
go to Graham Kamen, but I heardhim speak and I know what you're
going to say.
Warren (32:33):
You're not going to lose your job to AI.
You're going to lose your jobto someone who knows AI.
Mike Coffey (32:37):
Who's using AI?
Yeah, ai, yeah, that's thefirst time I heard that Good.
I've always credited to himwhen I repeat it, and I repeat
it, and I've had Tim on the showtoo.
Warren (32:47):
Yeah.
Mike Coffey (32:47):
And he's a super sharp guy and he's always been
one of the most creative HRthinkers out there as far as
cutting edge stuff.
Warren (32:58):
Yeah, you know I miss HR famous podcasts, you know,
because I would have definitelyinvited them but they didn't
meet the criteria.
They haven't published episodesin quite a while.
But you know, one thing I do isall these podcasts that go stop
publishing.
I still keep them in mysubscription list and then every
once in a while, like a hostilework environment it went away
(33:20):
for a long time.
It came back and it's gone awayagain and other ones.
I just maybe they'll come back.
Surfing Corporate came backrecently, so if you keep it in
your feed, maybe it'll come back, so and you'll get to enjoy it
again.
But yeah, I used to reallyenjoy HR Famous.
And when you said that, that isthe best AI line I think I've
ever heard, because you caneither embrace it and is it
(33:42):
going to cost your job?
Probably not.
But what's going to make is theHR department.
You were talking about thisbefore we started recording.
You're going to need fewerpeople, but that doesn't mean a
job elimination Just as we grow.
Hey, I'm not going to add youup.
You've got that talent.
Mike Coffey (33:56):
Now that you can develop and bring more value to
the organization.
Let those people growprofessionally.
You're not going to be trappedinto saying, okay, I've already
(34:18):
trained this person to do thisjob and I really you know, we've
all you know if we've managedvery long, we've had that really
key player in that one role andwe're just like, oh, it really
hurts to think about trainingsomebody else to do this job,
even though it's the best thingfor this employee and for the
company over time.
But we will free people up todo more creative work, to do
(34:40):
stuff that brings more joy tothem than just putting tab A and
slot A all day, which is reallywhat AI is best for right now.
Warren (34:48):
Exactly.
I want to see where it takes us.
I think there's so many greatopportunities.
Actually, here's a situationAporia, I'm in grad school now
and I'm not going to name theclasses, some classes.
I got a syllabus recently andthe syllabus talks about the
(35:08):
honor code and all this.
And it goes.
This instructor, their syllabushas a paragraph AI is against
the honor code.
It's the only one I've seenthat has it.
And you know, use will besubject to disciplinary action.
Yada, yada, yada.
And I'm like okay For thewriting I have to do for my
classes.
I write it 100% myself, but Ido load it up into ChatGBT and I
(35:34):
say please make suggestions forclarity, grammar structure,
things like that.
And it's amazing that it knowswhat I mean when I say grammar,
structure, clarity, and youcould do this or, you know, say
this or reorder it this way, andit's great.
And I'm not using it to writemy papers, as that's all my
(35:57):
original content, but it didn'tmake it so it's legible to or
readable to, the instructor.
Oh yeah, I would do that allday and I'm going to still
continue, even though it'sforbidden.
Uh, I'm still gonna continue todo that because it's I'm not
generating material out of it,but I've watched a youtube, a
person writing it and and Ithink you even did you asked one
(36:21):
of your webinars to chat gbt tocite their sources right, and
the citations are there.
So I mean, wow, but I don't useit that way.
I still that's the older guy inme that I'm going to do it
myself, but I'll let the systemcorrect me and make suggestions
and fix my mistakes.
Mike Coffey (36:41):
Well, and you're you know you and I are of the
same generation.
When Google came out, I mean Iremember there were.
You know we were hearingstories about.
You know college professors andhigh school teachers saying, no
, you can't use the Internet todo your research, everything has
to be in a book and you canonly go to the library.
(37:03):
And you know that seems soantiquated now.
And I think that's the samething with AI.
Michael Sherrod from TexasChristian University is a
pioneer in the digital world ingeneral.
He worked for the localnewspaper here in Fort Worth,
the Star-Telegram, in the 80s.
So when I'm in high school hewas working for the
Star-Telegram and they were thefirst newspaper to go digital in
(37:27):
the country.
They were the first one to havean online and it was a dial-up.
You know 1440 modem, that wholething.
And I remember because Isubscribed to it when I was in
high school.
It was called Star Text and sohe left there and he had a lot
of tech startups and he's anentrepreneur in residence or
(37:50):
something over there at TCU nowand teaches over there and he's
been on the podcast and talkingabout AI and he tells his
students that basically, yeah,you can use AI, but be ready to
fully defend whatever you turnin.
And it kind of goes back to thelaw school kind of approach
(38:11):
where, okay, let me take yourpaper Now, let's defend it.
And one of my best friends isJim Zeta, who's a career
plaintiff's attorney, who'spretty retired now.
He teaches at Texas A&M Law heand at TCU in business, in the
business school, and he tellshis students the same thing yeah
, use it.
You need to know how to use this, but you also have to watch out
(38:33):
for the inaccuracies, thehallucinations, and be willing
to you know, to defend what youpublish.
And I think that's going to bethe route we all have to go.
It's you know.
I see these on the HR boards.
I see people complaining aboutwell, their cover letters on
their resumes are clearlywritten by ChatGPT.
And I'm like well, first of all, why are you requiring cover
(38:55):
letters anymore?
I mean, really, are you readingcover letters and evaluating
candidates based on the contentof the cover letter?
And, second of all, yeah,that's who you want.
You want somebody who is goingto be efficient and not spend
four hours writing a memo thatnobody's going to read.
Warren (39:13):
Like our podcast starts off with.
Had you actually read the email, or a little disclaimer at the
beginning?
Yeah, both my children.
In North Carolina we have thesethings called early colleges,
so basically the kids willfinish ninth through 12th grade
in two years, and so it's reallycompressed, it's not easy work.
(39:33):
And then the second two yearsof high school they're getting
their associate's degree.
That's great and it is.
It saves me so far.
It saved me four years ofcollege tuition.
But the principal at the school, he's given his spiel to the
parents as you have to apply andbe accepted to the program.
But the principal is sittingthere, you know, saying that he
(39:54):
encourages the students to usetheir cell phones, use their
technology available to them inclass, because the important
thing is not being able to getgetting the answer from a book,
it's being able to come up withan answer.
You don't need rote memoryanymore to know.
You know the Gettysburg Address, you know the preamble to the
Constitution, you know welearned it through Schoolhouse
Rock.
Mike Coffey (40:14):
But they don't have that anymore.
Conjunction junction yeah.
Warren (40:16):
Conjunction, yeah, but he said kids don't rely on and
they need to develop thecritical thinking skills to
research appropriately.
You know, this site is alegitimate site and worth
getting or worth citing, andthis is this one's clickbait
junk or whatever you want tocall it.
That's not going to give youanything and I really
(40:38):
appreciated that and I thinkit's.
It's helped both my, mychildren and their, their
careers, their educationalcareers, so Well and the, the.
Mike Coffey (40:47):
The skill we need to be teaching people is how to
synthesize what they've learnedor what the information they
have at their hand and implementit.
How do I synthesize this andsolve a problem with it?
That's the thing that AI is notgoing to do.
It's not going to solveproblems creatively, especially
where you need it In the HRworld.
(41:08):
We need empathy creatively,especially where you need it In
the HR world.
We need empathy, and people arenever going to be happy with a
robot letting them go or a robotdoing the interview and making
the employment selection.
That's not the experience thatpeople want to.
A good friend of mine, bethStanley, has spent a career in
sales.
She's a sales trainer and shewrote a book.
People Buy from People and Ithink that's true in so many
(41:32):
ways.
I mean, we're all sellingsomething and people want to
deal with people, and untiluntil we really get to that
level of full you know, skynet,uh robot that is is
indistinguishable people aregoing to want to know that
there's a person on the otherend of this transaction and in
this communication.
(41:52):
So I'm less worried about it.
I'm like you.
I'm very bullish on AI.
I think there's a need forguardrails, because I've talked
to plenty of HR people in thelast couple of years who have
reached out and said, hey, youknow a lot about this.
My CEO says we have to startusing AI, and that's just it.
(42:14):
Just use AI for the sake ofusing AI.
And where do I start?
And I'm like, well, that's thewrong question.
The question is what problemsdo you need to solve in your
organization and what's theright tool to solve it?
Just because you have a hammerdoesn't mean everything's a nail
, so your most importantproblems may not be AI problems.
So let's solve your mostimportant problems and then
(42:36):
maybe you'll eventually get to aproblem where AI is helpful,
and I think that idea we have touse it just because it's the
hot thing.
Well, you remember what is it?
Five years, six years ago,everybody was talking about how
blockchain was going torevolutionize HR, and when was
the last time you heard that?
Warren (42:53):
So, yeah, you know and I was a little bit drinking the
Kool-Aid on the blockchainbecause I would love to have a
defined.
You know, this was their trueemployment history.
That almost I mean it's alittle big brother honestly and
that's not me, but trueemployment history that almost I
mean it's a little big brotherhonestly and that's not me, but
(43:13):
your employment history.
It's right there and it'suneditable, or you know, and and
things like that.
So I just I thought that thatwas going to be cool.
I think it's probably still gotsome it's.
It's not going to be everythingeverybody was saying four or
five years ago about blockchain,but it I think.
I think we'll see some of thatstill.
Mike Coffey (43:28):
Oh, I think it's going to be, but it's not going
to.
It's not doing what theythought it was going to do.
It's not being adopted at therate it is.
It's going to be part of thetechnology.
It's in part of whateversolutions we have.
In and of itself, it's not thesolution.
And I can tell you, I spend waytoo much time in Coinbase
looking at my current Bitcoinvalues, because they skyrocket
(43:52):
and they drop back down and Ithink I should have sold, and
then I start going back up and Ithink I'm not going to sell.
So my blockchain experience hasbeen mostly Bitcoin and it's
just another reason I have totake yoga classes every day.
Warren (44:08):
Raise that blood pressure.
Well, I don't want to take yogaclasses every day, so raise
that blood pressure.
Well, I don't want to take toomuch of our time we're coming on
in.
So Good Morning HR.
They drop episodes everyThursday.
Like I said, I listen to it onFridays because I work from home
on Thursdays and so you're,like I said, my Friday morning
commuting partner.
But be sure to check it out.
You can download it on all yourfavorite podcast players and
(44:31):
check it out and you know, evenif you don't need the research
credits, it's going to be wellworth your time.
Top quality guests, I think Imentioned to you in one of the
earlier emails I had to you.
I really one of my hot buttontopics is neurodiversity, and
you've had really great guestsbecause neurodiversity is
onediversity and you've hadreally great guests because
(44:52):
neurodiversity is one of thosetopics where there's a lot of
people selling a lot of BS outthere and you know Pine Sky.
When you have people who reallyunderstand neurodiversity, it
makes because I go in when Ihear somebody's a neurodiversity
expert will be speaking on itfor HR related, I go in with the
(45:13):
most cynical.
I'm ready to pounce on them andtear them apart and, like I
said, the guests you've had thatyou brought on talking about it
have been really good andthoughtful and really know what
they're speaking about.
But every time I hear thattopic and related to HR, I'm to,
I'm, I'm like I'm chomping atthat, I'm going to, I'm going to
troll them, I'm going to slamthem.
Andrew Quilpa (45:35):
I'm not going to let them.
Warren (45:36):
I'm going to have my flame floor ready, the first
mistake they make, and there'stoo many out there to give me
that opportunity.
But I've got actually the okay,you're full of crap, and I just
mark his plate and move to thenext step.
Mike Coffey (45:49):
Well, and that's kind of you know, HR and just
business podcast in general,there'll be something that's a
hot topic for a while andeverybody jumps in feet first
and everybody's an expert inthis or that, and and then you
find out most of them don't knowwhat they're really talking
about.
(46:09):
And, like with AI, I admit, youknow, I'm learning this is what
I've done so far, you know butI'm not coding stuff in Python,
building a lot of APIs my teamdoes, but I, you know, I'm not
doing a lot of that.
I'm mostly using large languagemodels and understanding how
our enterprise systems work andare being implemented, but I'm
(46:31):
not a coder.
But we saw it with the EI andunfortunately for the good
things that need to happen inthat space, a lot of charlatans
jumped into that space in 2020.
And we've had conversations onthe podcast where I bumped head
with not charlatans but peoplewho see differently on some of
those issues as far as how toaccomplish what we want to
(46:52):
accomplish in that space.
And I think neurodiversity hasbecome a topic that's
approaching that kind of levelwhere a lot of you know, a lot
of people agree and want to, youknow, want to open up their
workplaces to folks who, justyou know, see the world
different and interactdifferently.
But there are a lot of peoplewho are just hey, this is a way
(47:15):
to make a quick buck or to addsomething to my resume, and I
think that's a shame Becausethose speakers, a lot of them
that are right now talking about, say, neurodiversity.
Warren (47:27):
You know, two years ago they were the DEI experts and
before that they were whateverexpert it is.
So that's my jaded, cynicaloutlook.
So, anyways, please listen toGood Morning HR, a great podcast
to be listed on our Must ListenTo podcast.
So, Mike, thank you very muchfor joining us.
(47:49):
I really, really appreciate it.
As we, as we exit, I want tothank our voice artist, Andrew
Culpa, who does the introductionand the intro and outro.
Music is the underscoreorchestra devil, the devil.
So I'm Warren, I'm Mike, andwe're here helping you survive
HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Be well.
(48:10):
And we're here helping yousurvive hr one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Be well.
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