December 18, 2024 • 39 mins
Ever found yourself caught between holiday parties and year-end reports, trying to balance the chaos of personal life with professional duties? That’s where we kick off this episode of Jaded HR! We’re celebrating our podcast achievements, reminiscing on memorable episodes, and sharing personal stories like my new “cool HR” title earned during a night out in Philadelphia. Plus, dive into some family fun with tales of brewing beer with my son, who’s back home for winter break. Join us as we embrace the festive frenzy while planning for an exciting 2025 filled with fresh content and even more candid conversations.
In the realm of performance reviews, we’re shaking things up by ditching traditional numerical ratings in favor of real-time, narrative feedback. Our engineering company is all about fostering open communication and transparency, which has helped create a drama-free environment. We’ll share insights and potential improvements to this system, like revisions to feedback, as our team grows. It’s all about keeping things fair and straightforward while encouraging fruitful dialogues between managers and employees, ensuring everyone’s on the same page.
Switching gears to a hot topic in HR, we’re unraveling the recent salary rollercoaster at Ohio State University. After a Texas judge halted a planned salary threshold increase, Ohio State reversed pay raises, leaving many employees financially strained and sparking potential legal battles. We’ll compare how our company approached these regulatory uncertainties with caution, sharing strategies to navigate such changes while maintaining employee morale. To sprinkle some humor on this serious topic, I’ll recount a funny personal anecdote about using new slang, reminding us all of the generational learning curve we frequently encounter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew Quilpa (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:45):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough the workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (00:54):
I'm Cee Cee.
Warren (00:57):
All righty, we're experiencing some fun technical
issues and it's going to beweird, as I like getting your
facial reactions and expressionsas we discuss this.
So, now that we're limited tobandwidth or whatever's going on
, it'll be interesting, but wewill persevere.
This is blind reaction Beforewe get.
Yeah, blind reaction.
(01:19):
So our podcast host the companythat hosts we pay to play our
podcasts online is Buzzsproutand they came out with their.
You know, everybody got theirlittle things from their podcast
players and their music appsand things of how much you
listened and stuff like that.
So, as a podcast producer, wegot our stats for 2024.
(01:44):
And it was some prettyinteresting things.
We were discussing that.
Of our top episodes, the numbertwo episode for 2024 was
emotional intelligence, hr's newjedi mind trick where, uh, your
hubby kevin was our co-host and, yeah, the other, the number
one, and he I think that was inin June when he did that.
(02:06):
But the number one and I don'tknow numbers with us was job
deal breakers and that was onethat was we recorded like back
in February.
So it had a lot more time to getthe, the extra downloads
because, you know, just had moretime.
Yeah, we, we had some goodwe're, you know, nationwide if
you go to listen notes we are inthe top five percent of all uh
(02:28):
podcasts listened to.
Now my coffee when he was on uhspoiled the thing that if
you've done more than like 10episodes you you're probably
going to be in the top fivepercent, but anyways.
But for our podcast hosts,we're in the top 25% of all the
podcast downloads at least fordownloads in the first seven
(02:50):
days after releasing.
So we're in the top 25% thereand we had some good stats for
the year.
So looking forward to a reallygood 2025.
And, like I mentioned last time, we have idea for, uh, another
thing that'll be interesting.
So, yeah, keep keep listening,keep telling your friends and,
excuse me, help us keep keepgrowing.
(03:11):
So, yay, and speaking ofkeeping growing, thank you to
our patreon supporters hallie,the original jaded hr, rock star
bill and mike.
So thank you very Yay, we'llget them their things out of the
way, so, yay.
So what has been going?
It's been a couple weeks sincewe last recorded what's going on
in your world.
Cee Cee (03:31):
I don't know.
We are entering that weird timethat is between, I don't know,
like the holidays are coming up,so I feel like this is the week
where, when I hear any likecalendar notification go off, it
(03:52):
better be either reschedulingor canceling, but do not add to
anything this week, because thisis.
I feel like this is the lastworking week of the new year
before everyone tends to startchecking out next week.
So just let, let me get throughthis week, let me get my stuff
done, and it has to wait untilJanuary 2nd, otherwise.
Warren (04:15):
Exactly, it's crazy.
I was telling you off air.
It's just been crazy, crazy forme.
Personal life, work life, allthe Christmas stuff going on,
just a lot of crazy stuff.
I only went to one of mycompany's holiday parties.
I went to the one in Philly thisyear.
(04:37):
I had to tend to my mommy,who's being a pain in the ass to
me, but I had to take care ofher for a week so I didn't get
to go to my my local officesChristmas party, but still had a
good time doing that.
I was Sony off there.
I got labeled as cool HRfinally.
So by far and away I'm theoldest person.
We did our Philly Christmasparty.
(04:58):
We went out for an after partyand we went to a dance club in
Philly where I was by far andaway the oldest one there by 15
years, probably very easily, butI had a good time with it.
And then I don't know the namesof any of these places right
now and then we all walked overto the oldest bar in
(05:21):
Philadelphia from like the 1860sor something like that.
We went there, hung out therefor a little while before
calling it a night.
But yeah, I had a good old time.
So I got.
I got officially labeled coolHR, so now I got to live up
there at reputation, I guess.
Anyways, that was a lot of fun.
I've got to my son's home forthe winter break, so that's been
(05:43):
.
That's been fun and interesting.
He's been helping me with myhobby of brewing beer lately so
we're coming up with somerecipes to brew while he's home.
And, yeah, I've been applyingto internships with him and
trying to work with him on thoseinternships.
So we will see Love it.
But professionally you weretalking you're in the same
(06:07):
review process and annualincrease process we're in and oh
man, it's such a headache it is.
And when people don't do thesimple things they're supposed
to do like, for example, abandit juror is supposed to
contact HR and say, hey, I metwith whomever, I'm going to meet
with whomever, go ahead andrelease their review to them.
(06:28):
That way they get their reviewto review before they meet with
their manager and have thediscussion and then they can
have a good conversation aboutit.
Well, yeah, I've got a coupleof managers and they're
stereotypical.
If I know something a managerthat's not going to do what
they're supposed to do I canpretty much, without even
looking at the data say it'sthis person, this person, this
(06:48):
person, and yet those people areholding up the process and,
like these people's, increasesare effective January 4th, so
you got to get talking to them,like yesterday.
Cee Cee (07:00):
So, anyways fun stuff with that.
So you release annualevaluations to employees before
the annual discussion.
Warren (07:11):
Yeah, interesting.
So it's a three-step processand the employee does their
review and then it goes to themanager.
The manager does their reviewand they're supposed to
incorporate some of theemployee's comments and thoughts
in their review and what themanager puts down.
And then it goes to HR forholding until the manager says,
(07:34):
okay, I'm ready to meet thembecause I'm with them and the
manager will tell us and werelease it to them, like the day
before or theoretically the daybefore, so they have a chance
to read it over, so they can beprepared for the discussion, and
then they have their discussion.
And, yeah, we've got a handfulof managers, like I said, I
could have named them six monthsago who have not contacted me
(07:57):
to release their reviews yet.
And yeah, time is ticking.
Cee Cee (08:03):
That's interesting because we do I'll let you start
the review because we doself-evaluation, manager
evaluation, and then that getsput on hold because we go right
into talent calibrations andthen, once talent calibrations
are done, we unhold it and thenthe managers have their
conversations and then themanager releases after the
(08:25):
conversation and I think, like Ijust care pros and cons to both
.
I always like the idea of likeI don't I, by the way, there's
no right or wrong but like Ialways feel that people don't
like reading it first might belike some kind of I don't like
reading it first.
Might be a like some kind of um,I don't know it's.
(08:48):
It's harder to read toughfeedback than it is to hear it.
So to be in the conversationand to hear it without the
defense or coming up with somekind of argument like let's have
a conversation, be in themoment, don't think about what
I'm about to say next, and thenit's like a more in-time
dialogue and then we'll releaseit after.
Warren (09:09):
So I completely get that and that was a discussion when
we had, when we decided to do itthis way.
We don't have a lot of you know, I've mentioned before I work
for an engineering companythere's not a lot of drama,
there's not a lot of angst andthings like that, but so it's
all pretty cut and dry and Idare I say I have most of the
(09:34):
managers trained pretty wellabout real-time feedback In the
manager training.
I say a million times the finalreview should be extremely
anticlimactic.
You've had these things.
You say, okay, warren, wediscussed this, this, this,
you've done this, you've donethat, you've improved here.
You need some work here.
Da, da, da, da, da.
And it should be just a recapof everything you've said
(09:57):
through the years.
So it should be really quickand easy.
Now, does that happen all thetime?
No, but we're getting kind ofgood at it.
We're not there.
We're getting kind of good atit.
But also with our reviews, wedon't have any rating systems,
we don't have stars, we don'thave scales of one to 10 or
anything like that.
(10:18):
It's all narrative review.
So you cut out the angst of oh,I gave myself a 10 out of 10
and my manager only gave me aseven out of 10.
When they mean the same things.
It's just, you know, when yougive them the review, you know a
rating, you know people aregoing to rate themselves really
high, you know.
And the manager may not havethat same thing.
(10:39):
So it's all narrative based,which means it's highly
subjective.
But once again to managertraining.
You know you stick on thetopics and we don't have any
sort of forced rating at all.
If the manager feels like hisentire team deserves the highest
level race, then they can dothat.
Or, you know, if they want asingle hey, warren, you screwed
(11:01):
the pooch too many times thisyear.
You're hanging on by a thread,whatever it is they want to say.
They have a lot of discretiontowards that, but we don't have
those type of issues, knock onwood.
So it works for us.
But once again, also, on top ofeverything, we're only 170-ish
employees, so it's pretty easyto do.
(11:24):
So it's I like the system.
Now, if we got up to hundredsof employees, we might have to
rethink it, because you knowevery single review is a an
opportunity for something to govery wrong in this, this model.
But for now, where we are, itworks.
I like it overall.
(11:45):
I like it.
It could.
Um, okay, I start the.
I have a document at Google docthat I, from the moment I
launched the reviews.
It's called the.
You know, in this case, 2024review post-mortem.
So I've already.
This is what we can do better.
This is what I can do better.
This is how I, what you know.
I want to change it for nextyear little tweaks and things
(12:06):
like that.
So, and along the way, I workwith my assistant, like any
ideas you have for you know,some improvement.
You know, once you launch thesereviews, unfortunately they're
out.
They're out in the world and you, you can't call them back, even
if a manager says somethingthey shouldn't say or they want
to go back and they thought theysubmitted it and they want to
(12:26):
go back and they go.
Oh, I should have said this.
So that's something I'll tryand incorporate next year a
place where we can send it backto managers or even employees.
I've had employees say, oh, Iwanted to say this in my review.
I said, well, just write itdown and save it for your
discussion and things like that.
So there's some improvements tobe done, but it works.
It's unique, it's different,but I think if we were in an
(12:49):
environment that was moredramatics and more I don't know
what the word is just, yeah,drama.
And, like I said, overall themanagers followed their
direction fairly well.
You know, I was complainingabout the ones I know that I can
name without even looking atthe data, who hasn't told us to
release theirs yet.
(13:09):
And they're not bad managers,they just get caught up in their
own little world.
I guess more than anything else.
They just need a little pushevery once in a while to get
them there where we want them.
So it they do pretty well, Iguess.
But yeah, if it grew to three,four hundred, five hundred
employees, this, this processwould be really, really tough to
(13:33):
do in and you go too big.
I think subjectivity becomesmore of a burden than it is now,
because and I've I've only hadone person really argue come
back to me and argue about theirreview once and I was like well
, I don't manage you, but I cansee absolutely everything this
manager is saying.
That was what I wanted to say.
(13:55):
I said what I did say is thisis a discussion for you and your
manager, and if you don't feelit's fair, discuss that with
them and say, hey, I don't likethis because X.
Cee Cee (14:06):
Y Z.
Warren (14:07):
But if the employee goes in open-minded and even one
employee did come to me thisyear, even, and this, what sort
of ideas?
They came to me asking for help, how to, how, to you know,
improve on this?
And I'm like these are, theseare technical items and I am not
(14:29):
an engineer, I am not, you know, is there training you need or
want, or is there any sort ofdevelopmental programs?
I said that's what HR can helpwith, but these look like really
granular, hands-on items thatyou're probably going to to work
with their manager.
Yeah, more, and I didn'tmanager on, because I, you know
you can put all these acronymsand jargon in there and it's
(14:51):
just to do to me I, I think,like I'm always curious about
how people do performancereviews at their organization,
because we're in the middle ofours right now.
Cee Cee (15:00):
So so, like I like the company about 7000 employees, so
we have like, yeah, we can't we?
We actually, when I firststarted there, it was one of my
big projects was like to revampour system and what was?
The idea of getting rid ofratings altogether was thrown on
the table and I did some, likeyou know, research just to kind
(15:24):
of see what people were doingout there and I was our size.
That kind of sounds like anightmare.
No, so we, it was a compromise7000 people.
Yeah, and it was a compromise ofwe were at a five rate, like a
five scale, but we went down tothree scale and I would say
about 90 percent of the companylikes it and we don't like.
(15:44):
It's not numeric, so it's it'seither outstanding, achieving or
needs improvement.
But, I'm sorry, needsdevelopment.
But yeah, like like 90 percentof the people like it.
I think we have a small, a verysmall amount of people who
(16:04):
don't like that.
Achieving is like broader, soto speak, but then again the
other like whatever, 8% don'tcare, but for the most part the
three works for us pretty well.
Andrew Quilpa (16:21):
So but yeah, it's just an organization, yeah.
Warren (16:25):
Well I say we don't have a rating structure.
We do have one overall ratingthat you can give yourself and
it's directly tied to yourannual bonus.
Okay, outstanding, there is nobelow meeting expectations,
(16:46):
because a manager should.
This is part of our managementtraining.
You should be managing up ormanaging out your people who are
not meeting expectations as amanager, so we don't have
anything If they're not meetingexpectations.
You should be working with HRand either developing a
performance improvement plan,working with HR, and either
(17:08):
developing a performanceimprovement plan which, no, the
goal of an performanceimprovement plan is not to get
you out the door necessarily,it's that we want to improve
your performance.
I mean every state and at will,state pretty much other than
Montana and you can say you knowwhat, warren, this just isn't
working, you're not meeting ourgoals, bye-bye, and you don't
really even have to say that,just say we're done.
But when you go through theprocess, I mean doing a
(17:32):
well-thought-out, legitimateperformance improvement plan is
real work.
It's work for HR, it's work forthe manager and it's work for
the employee who's receiving it.
So it's not something that'sgoing.
If I want to get rid of someone,let's just get rid of them.
Don't play the stupid games.
Give them a performanceimprovement plan that are going
to in designed to fail.
That's I, I, that's what yousee online with these wonderful
(17:54):
people on tick tock or wherever.
Oh, if they you get aperformance improvement plan,
you're trying to get fired.
I've told the story.
Before I worked somewhere we hada long time employee.
He was employed the year, likemany, many moons ago, and his
performance continued to go down, down, down.
And he said to me directly thatperformance improvement plan is
(18:30):
exactly what I needed.
He said I became complacent, Ibecame lazy, I just wasn't
applying myself and that gave mewhat I needed.
And, honestly, that's what agood performance improvement not
saying because I did an awesomejob or anything, it was all on
him but that's what a goodperformance improvement plan is
you set them up for success, notfailure with it.
(18:51):
Anyways, interesting.
Cee Cee (18:53):
Long, long talk on that .
We've talked about this before.
There's a lot of real badadvice on there for Gen Zers on
TikTok and stuff, so you know.
Warren (19:03):
Oh, what's the new term I saw today?
You know how they're, you knowquite quitting, oh, rage, rage,
staying.
What is it?
Oh gosh, there's a new term Isaw, saw today where you're
staying to be unhappy.
Cee Cee (19:19):
I'm like really, you're staying out of spite out of
spite, I don't know.
Warren (19:24):
Well, carry your ass out .
I mean, it's probably becausekids, they're growing up just a
little bit.
They've moved out of mommy'sbasement and they have to pay
the rent.
Oh shit, I hate this job, but Igot to pay my rent, I got to
pay my car payment and thingslike that.
I forget.
I forget what it is Ragesomething.
Cee Cee (19:42):
Wait, there's a word for that.
I didn't know we were labelingthat because I've been
experiencing that for years,just actually really do like my
job and I really do like mycompany.
But I'm just as a joke, butthat's funny.
Warren (20:00):
We have to label everything and make it trendy.
Yeah, exactly, I didn't evenclick on the full article.
But well, speaking of fullarticles, our little topic for
today is what's going on at theOhio State University, right?
Cee Cee (20:13):
now, so just a full.
I am usually a hair flip, a funHR.
I don't really get to have somuch fun doing deep dives into
these kind of topics, so I amexcited to hear from your
perspective of what is going on.
Warren (20:33):
Well, so everybody was preparing for the salary minimum
salary increase that wassupposed to take effect in
January 1.
And even in my company we had afew people who would have been
below that salary threshold, andI don't recall what that number
is anymore.
I think it was like $55,000 orsomething like that.
Cee Cee (20:55):
So if someone theoretically was like under
that salary threshold, then theywould no longer be non-exempt.
No, they would no longer beexempt, they would be non-exempt
.
Warren (21:05):
Right, okay, and I'm not going to be able to find this,
but last month a Texas judgethrew it out and said no, the
salary requirement is not goingto be put into place.
It was thrown it out.
Well, some companies, includingthe Ohio State University,
decided that they were going togo ahead and fix people's
(21:26):
salaries and they gave increasesback in November, anticipation,
not knowing that this judge wasgoing to throw it out of out.
So all these happy employees Ithink it was something like 350,
400, I forget the number ofemployees got their increases to
bring them up to the minimumthreshold to remain exempt.
(21:47):
And well, after the judge threwit out, what did Ohio State do?
They reduced those people'ssalaries back again.
But here's the thing they wereso gracious.
They told them they didn't haveto repay the difference for a
(22:07):
month and a half or whateverthey were, and of course, this
came from hr.
So hr is getting the black eyesand you know hr had nothing to
do with it.
It was I don't know what youcall it at a university, the
board of uh trustees orsomething like that, that
decided this information is.
You know, hr is more theexecutor of plans versus the
(22:31):
initiator of of things like thisis I.
Cee Cee (22:33):
I would put money on it , hrs please don't do this,
please don't yeah right likethis is kind of the right, like
that's so weird so all thesepeople got raises and they were
like happy little campersbecause they figured that they
were like bumped up and thatOhio state was like just kidding
, we don't have to do it anymore.
(22:54):
So we're not going to do it.
Warren (22:57):
And that's pretty much what the email from HR read.
Oh, they said they are going to, in accordance to the law that
was just passed, that itwouldn't have to.
They weren't going to do theseraises any longer and actually I
just found the the data.
So the the current weekly salaryis 844.
(23:19):
Oh, excuse me, the currentsalary requirement is actually
yeah, it is currently $844, butthe judge who threw it out has
it go to the pre-July 1, 2024rate of $684 a week.
It was going to be $1,028 aweek or 50.
(23:40):
I think that comes out to like$54,000, $55,000 a year.
You're an HR.
You can do the 20-80 math orthe times 52 math on that to
figure that out.
So this was a significantincrease for some people.
And then to take it away andyou know what I just thought
about this.
They're taking away people'smoney right before the holidays.
And you're saying oh, look at me, it's a fat raise and I'm going
(24:03):
to spoil my kids a little bitmore.
I'm going to spoil myself alittle little bit more.
I'm going to, you know, spoilmyself a little bit more.
Andrew Quilpa (24:10):
You know treat yourself, treat yourself, treat
yourself 2024.
Cee Cee (24:15):
Just kidding, oh my gosh.
Warren (24:19):
Well, adding insult to entry on this, I didn't read the
article.
I only saw the headline thatthe reducing of this taking away
this pay and reducing thesepeople's pay has disparate
impact on minorities minorities.
(24:44):
So I think we're going to seesome lawsuits out of this, not
based on the exemption levelstatus, but taking away pay from
there's a certain group.
Minority groups were affecteddifferently than other groups.
So I think you're going to seea lot of fun out of this one.
A lot of fun out of this one,but that I don't know.
That's just so.
If you've given the raise andthe law changes back, you acted
(25:08):
too early.
A we at my company were lookingat it.
We only had, I think, five orsix people that would fall below
this, and we came up with agame plan for each of them.
What we're going to do somewould get increases, some
wouldn't get increase or getincreases to bring them above
that, and some would not, andwe'd make them non-exempt and we
(25:30):
had a plan that worked in placeand we were prepared to execute
that plan on January 1.
And that was what we were goingto do, and you know.
Then the judge backed out andyou know how much well, I
actually there was an article.
It was going to cost severalmillion dollars a year not
(25:52):
tremendously a year to keep thisin place.
But yeah and then.
Okay, here's the other thingI've seen all over social media.
Well, you can pay your footballcoach this much and your
basketball coach this much, butyou can't play the players, and
that's a whole farce of asituation because the booster
(26:13):
club is floating most of thesecoaches' salaries versus the
school.
The school is paying them highsalaries, no doubt about it.
But if you have a coach making$10 million a year, the bulk of
that's coming from the privateorganizations of the booster
club, et cetera.
So yeah, the coach is stillmaking probably a million or
more from the school, but not asmuch.
(26:36):
Their money comes from multiplesources.
As someone who follows thatstuff online because A I'm an HR
nerd and B I like sports andfollowing that type of
information as well- it's justdisappointing because, there's
something about that that seemsso.
Cee Cee (26:53):
That's handled correctly.
It seems so disingenuine.
We're not giving you a raisebecause you deserve it.
We're giving you a raisebecause the government's making
us.
But now that they're not makingus, then never mind, you don't
get it.
If I was an employee of theirsthat just got screwed like this,
I would be looking for anotherjob, Like 100%.
(27:14):
I'd be like screw you guys, youjerks.
I am fucking out of here.
So congratulations to the OhioState University for killing the
culture in one foul swoop.
Warren (27:30):
Yeah, I'm going to keep my eye on this.
I wouldn't be surprised if theydidn't switch back.
Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't thinkthis out all the way through.
Sort of like a Christmasvacation where he changes his
mind from the jelly of the monthclub Okay, you'll get your
bonus of last year and 10% orwhatever he does to it.
I wouldn't be surprised if andif, for nothing else, to keep
(27:53):
their asses out of lawsuit house.
Now you know, yeah, it'll costhim a couple million dollars a
year to do that, but that's awhole lot less expensive than a
discrimination lawsuit.
Cee Cee (28:04):
I'm curious about the disparate impact part, because
it makes sense it does.
I'm just curious about the insand outs of it, of how that's
coming about.
And you're right, it could bemajor lawsuits.
So I don't know.
Warren (28:20):
And now I admitted I didn't read the article.
I'll have to find that article,maybe elaborate on it in the
future.
But yeah, I think there'll bean interesting story to follow
going into the new year.
And I mean, just think thingsout.
Don't act, you know, justshooting from the hip up.
We don't have to do thisanymore.
(28:40):
Let's take these people's moneyaway.
Okay, this is something weshould probably have a
discussion about.
Weigh the pros and cons, andyou know how is it going to
affect our culture, our company,our morale, and it's also going
to affect the morale of peoplewho it didn't affect.
You know, my best friend mightbe one of the managers or
(29:02):
exempted-level employees who nowhas got a pay cut and you know
that sucks.
And now my work bestie is goingto be out looking for another
job and get a better job at Idon't know another school
somewhere.
It's going to impact so manylevels.
And then applicants, are yougoing to want to apply to that?
(29:25):
It's making national news.
Everybody hears about it, I'msure in the what are they in
Columbus Ohio?
I'm sure everybody in that areais talking about this.
And oh hell, I'm not going to gowork for a place that does this
to their employees I'm justgonna say I bet you, michigan,
didn't do this to theiremployees oh, a little rivalry
(29:51):
that's for my friend emily oh,and speaking of throwing money
out the window, the universityand it's probably going to be
picked up by the athleticboosters had to pay I forget how
much $100,000, $200,000, a bigamount for the fight they had
after the end of the Michigangame.
(30:11):
So you know.
But once again, and that'sprobably just going to be one
donor saying, oh, screw it, itwas good, I'm going to, you know
, pay, I'll give you the couplehundred thousand dollars just to
get rid of this font.
That's how things work in thebooster world and things like
that.
So yeah, it's going to be very,very interesting.
So yeah, the Ohio State, youreally stepped in one here and,
(30:37):
like I said, I'm not blaming theHR people there.
I'm sure this was the equivalentof their C-level.
I don't know if they come boardof governors, board of trustees
.
Cee Cee (30:46):
whatever it is, made this decision and HR just had to
execute their decisions andthis kind of goes back to those
conversations where it's like,because people are like HR is
not your friend, well, it's likewe're not your enemy, and I
guarantee you there is at leastone or two HR people in that
room giving their advice of likethis is a very bad idea.
(31:09):
Please don't Don't do this, andI guarantee you or I would like
to think that they wereadvocating and unfortunately
they were not part of thedecision process.
Warren (31:20):
Can we table this discussion and think about it a
little further before we takeany rash actions?
Maybe talk to some attorneys tosee what exactly is going to,
what our risks are here.
Cee Cee (31:32):
Well it's just you give someone a pile of money and
then you take it away, like youdon't put the genie back in the
bottle.
After that point, people havealready no-transcript.
(32:05):
Like no, they.
People feel like they deservethe pay increase that they get.
So when you then take it awayfrom them like try taking candy
away from a baby Like it's thesame thing, like they've now
adjusted their lifestyle it'shard to go back and I would be
looking for another job.
(32:26):
So and I can say that because,honestly, I did not go to
college in the Midwest, so Iwent to college in South Florida
and I got my master's in theNortheast.
I have no skin in that game.
But Ohio State University, theOhio State University.
You should be ashamed ofyourself.
Warren (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that's the title of ourepisode.
Cee Cee (32:52):
Call it.
Warren (32:53):
The Ohio State World Team.
Cee Cee (32:55):
It should be like the, the capital T-H-E disappointment
.
Warren (33:03):
The disappointment, Okay , the disappointment, and you
know you've got to think also,going from say someone was at
the very bottom of that scale.
They went from $800 a month to$1,100 a month, that's $300 a
month.
Some people might've donesomething like buy a new car and
(33:27):
finances oh, I can get you know, you're probably getting not
getting a brand new car, butyou're getting a nice used car
for for that type of money.
And now they've made thiscommit financial commitment
based on the school did.
And now they've made thisfinancial commitment based on
the school did.
And now they're going to behurting.
Cee Cee (33:43):
You know, I didn't even think about that.
Like $300 a month could be lifechanging.
And if someone, let's say,upgraded their apartment,
assigned a new lease in thatamount of time with this new pay
increase, with this new payincrease, and now all of a
sudden, like, maybe they arepaying like $100 a month, $200 a
month more, which in the grandscheme of things Doesn't sound
(34:06):
huge.
But I mean, if they were, thentheir pay was cut and they can
no longer afford to live in thatapartment.
Warren (34:15):
Honestly, they're forced to find a new job Because
that's what they've done?
You signed that lease?
Yeah, I would think at somepoint in my career.
I mean, like I said, $1,100,it's $55,000 a year.
I'm not going to do the fullmath here, but I remember once
(34:38):
upon a time oh, I can't wait tomake over $50,000 a year, but
now the way inflation is,everything is gone.
I mean, mortgage rates areridiculously high, Interest
rates on anything car loansanything is ridiculously high
right now.
$55,000 is not all that much,and that $100, $200, that's a
(35:01):
big difference in these people'slives.
So it's I don't know.
It's going to be definitelyworth watching what happens out
of this.
Cee Cee (35:11):
I would hope that Ohio State changes their mind,
because wow, it's not a cutelook Not cute, not the mirror,
as the kids are saying oh gosh,oh, I'll have to tell you
offline.
Warren (35:26):
I learned some new slang this past week and I was
telling my kids this and theywere just cringing uh, with my
new, my new slang.
Cee Cee (35:37):
So, anyway, okay, so I have to say this story because
this is so funny and it's it'seven funnier because it happened
to someone else this week andnow I have to share because I'm
not the only person.
Okay, so about, I want to say10 years ago I was running a
like a training.
I was facilitating aprofessional development session
for our college intern cohortand during that, like, we were
(36:03):
talking about time managementand how, like, you only have a
finite amount of time during theday room for what matters like
has the most impact, but thenalso what matters the most to
you.
So I kind of made people gothrough like and chart out like
what are taking up space intheir life.
And someone wrote on there thatwas you know.
I was like, oh, that's funny, Iloved Netflix and Chell.
(36:27):
So not knowing what Netflix,and Chell really meant.
And then, of course, as we'redebriefing and going through it,
people are saying I called itout and I said it, just like
that, I'm like I do love aNetflix and Chell through it.
People were saying I called itout and I was.
I said it, just like that, I'mlike I do love a Netflix.
So this whole room of like 20somethings are like cracking up
(36:47):
because I did not understandanything and I was like, oh, I'm
, I'm cool, hr.
So finally like oh, thankfullyone of them stopped me after and
was like hey, just let you know, like Netflix and shows, not
what you think it is.
And that was the day I startedto feel like I was no longer a
hip 22 year old and I was likeit is happening, I'm not one of
(37:12):
an old millennial, but it'sfunny because to someone I know
this week and it was the samething, and this individual is a
little older than I am, so Iwould say like she's probably in
her like early 50s, but anyway,she was just like she made the
(37:33):
same mistake and I was crackingup and I'm like A kids are still
using that term, hilarious andB I'm not the only one.
Warren (37:47):
Yeah, and see, I like, especially when my kids are
around and I can embarrass them,I'll say something completely
stupid.
I would probably say to my kidshey, go home and Netflix and
chill in front of their friends.
Would probably say to my kidshey, you want to?
go home and netflix and chill infront of their friends just get
a real out of the kids andthings like that.
So I the beauty of all themental abuse you can invoke on
(38:10):
your kids.
Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it'sgreat.
So, anyway, oh man.
So we are not going to berecording in two weeks.
I think we said our next weekrecord, first week in January.
So January 6th, 7th timeframe.
So I want to wish all thewonderful listeners who made
(38:33):
this awesome 2024 year great tocome back on.
I guess that means we publishJanuary 9th-ish.
I'm looking at a calendar sowe'll see where that goes.
We have some new plans whichactually we need to talk about
and see how we're going toexecute these plans and things
like that.
So, oh yeah, it's going to be alot of fun and yeah, so y'all
(38:56):
have a happy holiday season.
Whichever religion you choose,you can have a great one, and a
happy new year and things likethat.
So come see us again in 2025.
That I'll say.
The voice artist at thebeginning is Andrew Kolpa and
the intro and outro music isDouble the Double by the
(39:17):
Underschool Orchestra.
As always, I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (39:21):
I'm Cece.
Warren (39:23):
And we're here helping you survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Cee Cee (39:28):
See you on the other side 2025.
Warren (39:33):
Yes, alright, so oh.
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:45):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough the workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (00:54):
I'm Cee Cee.
Warren (00:57):
All righty, we're experiencing some fun technical
issues and it's going to beweird, as I like getting your
facial reactions and expressionsas we discuss this.
So, now that we're limited tobandwidth or whatever's going on
, it'll be interesting, but wewill persevere.
This is blind reaction Beforewe get.
Yeah, blind reaction.
(01:19):
So our podcast host the companythat hosts we pay to play our
podcasts online is Buzzsproutand they came out with their.
You know, everybody got theirlittle things from their podcast
players and their music appsand things of how much you
listened and stuff like that.
So, as a podcast producer, wegot our stats for 2024.
(01:44):
And it was some prettyinteresting things.
We were discussing that.
Of our top episodes, the numbertwo episode for 2024 was
emotional intelligence, hr's newjedi mind trick where, uh, your
hubby kevin was our co-host and, yeah, the other, the number
one, and he I think that was inin June when he did that.
(02:06):
But the number one and I don'tknow numbers with us was job
deal breakers and that was onethat was we recorded like back
in February.
So it had a lot more time to getthe, the extra downloads
because, you know, just had moretime.
Yeah, we, we had some goodwe're, you know, nationwide if
you go to listen notes we are inthe top five percent of all uh
(02:28):
podcasts listened to.
Now my coffee when he was on uhspoiled the thing that if
you've done more than like 10episodes you you're probably
going to be in the top fivepercent, but anyways.
But for our podcast hosts,we're in the top 25% of all the
podcast downloads at least fordownloads in the first seven
(02:50):
days after releasing.
So we're in the top 25% thereand we had some good stats for
the year.
So looking forward to a reallygood 2025.
And, like I mentioned last time, we have idea for, uh, another
thing that'll be interesting.
So, yeah, keep keep listening,keep telling your friends and,
excuse me, help us keep keepgrowing.
(03:11):
So, yay, and speaking ofkeeping growing, thank you to
our patreon supporters hallie,the original jaded hr, rock star
bill and mike.
So thank you very Yay, we'llget them their things out of the
way, so, yay.
So what has been going?
It's been a couple weeks sincewe last recorded what's going on
in your world.
Cee Cee (03:31):
I don't know.
We are entering that weird timethat is between, I don't know,
like the holidays are coming up,so I feel like this is the week
where, when I hear any likecalendar notification go off, it
(03:52):
better be either reschedulingor canceling, but do not add to
anything this week, because thisis.
I feel like this is the lastworking week of the new year
before everyone tends to startchecking out next week.
So just let, let me get throughthis week, let me get my stuff
done, and it has to wait untilJanuary 2nd, otherwise.
Warren (04:15):
Exactly, it's crazy.
I was telling you off air.
It's just been crazy, crazy forme.
Personal life, work life, allthe Christmas stuff going on,
just a lot of crazy stuff.
I only went to one of mycompany's holiday parties.
I went to the one in Philly thisyear.
(04:37):
I had to tend to my mommy,who's being a pain in the ass to
me, but I had to take care ofher for a week so I didn't get
to go to my my local officesChristmas party, but still had a
good time doing that.
I was Sony off there.
I got labeled as cool HRfinally.
So by far and away I'm theoldest person.
We did our Philly Christmasparty.
(04:58):
We went out for an after partyand we went to a dance club in
Philly where I was by far andaway the oldest one there by 15
years, probably very easily, butI had a good time with it.
And then I don't know the namesof any of these places right
now and then we all walked overto the oldest bar in
(05:21):
Philadelphia from like the 1860sor something like that.
We went there, hung out therefor a little while before
calling it a night.
But yeah, I had a good old time.
So I got.
I got officially labeled coolHR, so now I got to live up
there at reputation, I guess.
Anyways, that was a lot of fun.
I've got to my son's home forthe winter break, so that's been
(05:43):
.
That's been fun and interesting.
He's been helping me with myhobby of brewing beer lately so
we're coming up with somerecipes to brew while he's home.
And, yeah, I've been applyingto internships with him and
trying to work with him on thoseinternships.
So we will see Love it.
But professionally you weretalking you're in the same
(06:07):
review process and annualincrease process we're in and oh
man, it's such a headache it is.
And when people don't do thesimple things they're supposed
to do like, for example, abandit juror is supposed to
contact HR and say, hey, I metwith whomever, I'm going to meet
with whomever, go ahead andrelease their review to them.
(06:28):
That way they get their reviewto review before they meet with
their manager and have thediscussion and then they can
have a good conversation aboutit.
Well, yeah, I've got a coupleof managers and they're
stereotypical.
If I know something a managerthat's not going to do what
they're supposed to do I canpretty much, without even
looking at the data say it'sthis person, this person, this
(06:48):
person, and yet those people areholding up the process and,
like these people's, increasesare effective January 4th, so
you got to get talking to them,like yesterday.
Cee Cee (07:00):
So, anyways fun stuff with that.
So you release annualevaluations to employees before
the annual discussion.
Warren (07:11):
Yeah, interesting.
So it's a three-step processand the employee does their
review and then it goes to themanager.
The manager does their reviewand they're supposed to
incorporate some of theemployee's comments and thoughts
in their review and what themanager puts down.
And then it goes to HR forholding until the manager says,
(07:34):
okay, I'm ready to meet thembecause I'm with them and the
manager will tell us and werelease it to them, like the day
before or theoretically the daybefore, so they have a chance
to read it over, so they can beprepared for the discussion, and
then they have their discussion.
And, yeah, we've got a handfulof managers, like I said, I
could have named them six monthsago who have not contacted me
(07:57):
to release their reviews yet.
And yeah, time is ticking.
Cee Cee (08:03):
That's interesting because we do I'll let you start
the review because we doself-evaluation, manager
evaluation, and then that getsput on hold because we go right
into talent calibrations andthen, once talent calibrations
are done, we unhold it and thenthe managers have their
conversations and then themanager releases after the
(08:25):
conversation and I think, like Ijust care pros and cons to both
.
I always like the idea of likeI don't I, by the way, there's
no right or wrong but like Ialways feel that people don't
like reading it first might belike some kind of I don't like
reading it first.
Might be a like some kind of um,I don't know it's.
(08:48):
It's harder to read toughfeedback than it is to hear it.
So to be in the conversationand to hear it without the
defense or coming up with somekind of argument like let's have
a conversation, be in themoment, don't think about what
I'm about to say next, and thenit's like a more in-time
dialogue and then we'll releaseit after.
Warren (09:09):
So I completely get that and that was a discussion when
we had, when we decided to do itthis way.
We don't have a lot of you know, I've mentioned before I work
for an engineering companythere's not a lot of drama,
there's not a lot of angst andthings like that, but so it's
all pretty cut and dry and Idare I say I have most of the
(09:34):
managers trained pretty wellabout real-time feedback In the
manager training.
I say a million times the finalreview should be extremely
anticlimactic.
You've had these things.
You say, okay, warren, wediscussed this, this, this,
you've done this, you've donethat, you've improved here.
You need some work here.
Da, da, da, da, da.
And it should be just a recapof everything you've said
(09:57):
through the years.
So it should be really quickand easy.
Now, does that happen all thetime?
No, but we're getting kind ofgood at it.
We're not there.
We're getting kind of good atit.
But also with our reviews, wedon't have any rating systems,
we don't have stars, we don'thave scales of one to 10 or
anything like that.
(10:18):
It's all narrative review.
So you cut out the angst of oh,I gave myself a 10 out of 10
and my manager only gave me aseven out of 10.
When they mean the same things.
It's just, you know, when yougive them the review, you know a
rating, you know people aregoing to rate themselves really
high, you know.
And the manager may not havethat same thing.
(10:39):
So it's all narrative based,which means it's highly
subjective.
But once again to managertraining.
You know you stick on thetopics and we don't have any
sort of forced rating at all.
If the manager feels like hisentire team deserves the highest
level race, then they can dothat.
Or, you know, if they want asingle hey, warren, you screwed
(11:01):
the pooch too many times thisyear.
You're hanging on by a thread,whatever it is they want to say.
They have a lot of discretiontowards that, but we don't have
those type of issues, knock onwood.
So it works for us.
But once again, also, on top ofeverything, we're only 170-ish
employees, so it's pretty easyto do.
(11:24):
So it's I like the system.
Now, if we got up to hundredsof employees, we might have to
rethink it, because you knowevery single review is a an
opportunity for something to govery wrong in this, this model.
But for now, where we are, itworks.
I like it overall.
(11:45):
I like it.
It could.
Um, okay, I start the.
I have a document at Google docthat I, from the moment I
launched the reviews.
It's called the.
You know, in this case, 2024review post-mortem.
So I've already.
This is what we can do better.
This is what I can do better.
This is how I, what you know.
I want to change it for nextyear little tweaks and things
(12:06):
like that.
So, and along the way, I workwith my assistant, like any
ideas you have for you know,some improvement.
You know, once you launch thesereviews, unfortunately they're
out.
They're out in the world and you, you can't call them back, even
if a manager says somethingthey shouldn't say or they want
to go back and they thought theysubmitted it and they want to
(12:26):
go back and they go.
Oh, I should have said this.
So that's something I'll tryand incorporate next year a
place where we can send it backto managers or even employees.
I've had employees say, oh, Iwanted to say this in my review.
I said, well, just write itdown and save it for your
discussion and things like that.
So there's some improvements tobe done, but it works.
It's unique, it's different,but I think if we were in an
(12:49):
environment that was moredramatics and more I don't know
what the word is just, yeah,drama.
And, like I said, overall themanagers followed their
direction fairly well.
You know, I was complainingabout the ones I know that I can
name without even looking atthe data, who hasn't told us to
release theirs yet.
(13:09):
And they're not bad managers,they just get caught up in their
own little world.
I guess more than anything else.
They just need a little pushevery once in a while to get
them there where we want them.
So it they do pretty well, Iguess.
But yeah, if it grew to three,four hundred, five hundred
employees, this, this processwould be really, really tough to
(13:33):
do in and you go too big.
I think subjectivity becomesmore of a burden than it is now,
because and I've I've only hadone person really argue come
back to me and argue about theirreview once and I was like well
, I don't manage you, but I cansee absolutely everything this
manager is saying.
That was what I wanted to say.
(13:55):
I said what I did say is thisis a discussion for you and your
manager, and if you don't feelit's fair, discuss that with
them and say, hey, I don't likethis because X.
Cee Cee (14:06):
Y Z.
Warren (14:07):
But if the employee goes in open-minded and even one
employee did come to me thisyear, even, and this, what sort
of ideas?
They came to me asking for help, how to, how, to you know,
improve on this?
And I'm like these are, theseare technical items and I am not
(14:29):
an engineer, I am not, you know, is there training you need or
want, or is there any sort ofdevelopmental programs?
I said that's what HR can helpwith, but these look like really
granular, hands-on items thatyou're probably going to to work
with their manager.
Yeah, more, and I didn'tmanager on, because I, you know
you can put all these acronymsand jargon in there and it's
(14:51):
just to do to me I, I think,like I'm always curious about
how people do performancereviews at their organization,
because we're in the middle ofours right now.
Cee Cee (15:00):
So so, like I like the company about 7000 employees, so
we have like, yeah, we can't we?
We actually, when I firststarted there, it was one of my
big projects was like to revampour system and what was?
The idea of getting rid ofratings altogether was thrown on
the table and I did some, likeyou know, research just to kind
(15:24):
of see what people were doingout there and I was our size.
That kind of sounds like anightmare.
No, so we, it was a compromise7000 people.
Yeah, and it was a compromise ofwe were at a five rate, like a
five scale, but we went down tothree scale and I would say
about 90 percent of the companylikes it and we don't like.
(15:44):
It's not numeric, so it's it'seither outstanding, achieving or
needs improvement.
But, I'm sorry, needsdevelopment.
But yeah, like like 90 percentof the people like it.
I think we have a small, a verysmall amount of people who
(16:04):
don't like that.
Achieving is like broader, soto speak, but then again the
other like whatever, 8% don'tcare, but for the most part the
three works for us pretty well.
Andrew Quilpa (16:21):
So but yeah, it's just an organization, yeah.
Warren (16:25):
Well I say we don't have a rating structure.
We do have one overall ratingthat you can give yourself and
it's directly tied to yourannual bonus.
Okay, outstanding, there is nobelow meeting expectations,
(16:46):
because a manager should.
This is part of our managementtraining.
You should be managing up ormanaging out your people who are
not meeting expectations as amanager, so we don't have
anything If they're not meetingexpectations.
You should be working with HRand either developing a
performance improvement plan,working with HR, and either
(17:08):
developing a performanceimprovement plan which, no, the
goal of an performanceimprovement plan is not to get
you out the door necessarily,it's that we want to improve
your performance.
I mean every state and at will,state pretty much other than
Montana and you can say you knowwhat, warren, this just isn't
working, you're not meeting ourgoals, bye-bye, and you don't
really even have to say that,just say we're done.
But when you go through theprocess, I mean doing a
(17:32):
well-thought-out, legitimateperformance improvement plan is
real work.
It's work for HR, it's work forthe manager and it's work for
the employee who's receiving it.
So it's not something that'sgoing.
If I want to get rid of someone,let's just get rid of them.
Don't play the stupid games.
Give them a performanceimprovement plan that are going
to in designed to fail.
That's I, I, that's what yousee online with these wonderful
(17:54):
people on tick tock or wherever.
Oh, if they you get aperformance improvement plan,
you're trying to get fired.
I've told the story.
Before I worked somewhere we hada long time employee.
He was employed the year, likemany, many moons ago, and his
performance continued to go down, down, down.
And he said to me directly thatperformance improvement plan is
(18:30):
exactly what I needed.
He said I became complacent, Ibecame lazy, I just wasn't
applying myself and that gave mewhat I needed.
And, honestly, that's what agood performance improvement not
saying because I did an awesomejob or anything, it was all on
him but that's what a goodperformance improvement plan is
you set them up for success, notfailure with it.
(18:51):
Anyways, interesting.
Cee Cee (18:53):
Long, long talk on that .
We've talked about this before.
There's a lot of real badadvice on there for Gen Zers on
TikTok and stuff, so you know.
Warren (19:03):
Oh, what's the new term I saw today?
You know how they're, you knowquite quitting, oh, rage, rage,
staying.
What is it?
Oh gosh, there's a new term Isaw, saw today where you're
staying to be unhappy.
Cee Cee (19:19):
I'm like really, you're staying out of spite out of
spite, I don't know.
Warren (19:24):
Well, carry your ass out .
I mean, it's probably becausekids, they're growing up just a
little bit.
They've moved out of mommy'sbasement and they have to pay
the rent.
Oh shit, I hate this job, but Igot to pay my rent, I got to
pay my car payment and thingslike that.
I forget.
I forget what it is Ragesomething.
Cee Cee (19:42):
Wait, there's a word for that.
I didn't know we were labelingthat because I've been
experiencing that for years,just actually really do like my
job and I really do like mycompany.
But I'm just as a joke, butthat's funny.
Warren (20:00):
We have to label everything and make it trendy.
Yeah, exactly, I didn't evenclick on the full article.
But well, speaking of fullarticles, our little topic for
today is what's going on at theOhio State University, right?
Cee Cee (20:13):
now, so just a full.
I am usually a hair flip, a funHR.
I don't really get to have somuch fun doing deep dives into
these kind of topics, so I amexcited to hear from your
perspective of what is going on.
Warren (20:33):
Well, so everybody was preparing for the salary minimum
salary increase that wassupposed to take effect in
January 1.
And even in my company we had afew people who would have been
below that salary threshold, andI don't recall what that number
is anymore.
I think it was like $55,000 orsomething like that.
Cee Cee (20:55):
So if someone theoretically was like under
that salary threshold, then theywould no longer be non-exempt.
No, they would no longer beexempt, they would be non-exempt
.
Warren (21:05):
Right, okay, and I'm not going to be able to find this,
but last month a Texas judgethrew it out and said no, the
salary requirement is not goingto be put into place.
It was thrown it out.
Well, some companies, includingthe Ohio State University,
decided that they were going togo ahead and fix people's
(21:26):
salaries and they gave increasesback in November, anticipation,
not knowing that this judge wasgoing to throw it out of out.
So all these happy employees Ithink it was something like 350,
400, I forget the number ofemployees got their increases to
bring them up to the minimumthreshold to remain exempt.
(21:47):
And well, after the judge threwit out, what did Ohio State do?
They reduced those people'ssalaries back again.
But here's the thing they wereso gracious.
They told them they didn't haveto repay the difference for a
(22:07):
month and a half or whateverthey were, and of course, this
came from hr.
So hr is getting the black eyesand you know hr had nothing to
do with it.
It was I don't know what youcall it at a university, the
board of uh trustees orsomething like that, that
decided this information is.
You know, hr is more theexecutor of plans versus the
(22:31):
initiator of of things like thisis I.
Cee Cee (22:33):
I would put money on it , hrs please don't do this,
please don't yeah right likethis is kind of the right, like
that's so weird so all thesepeople got raises and they were
like happy little campersbecause they figured that they
were like bumped up and thatOhio state was like just kidding
, we don't have to do it anymore.
(22:54):
So we're not going to do it.
Warren (22:57):
And that's pretty much what the email from HR read.
Oh, they said they are going to, in accordance to the law that
was just passed, that itwouldn't have to.
They weren't going to do theseraises any longer and actually I
just found the the data.
So the the current weekly salaryis 844.
(23:19):
Oh, excuse me, the currentsalary requirement is actually
yeah, it is currently $844, butthe judge who threw it out has
it go to the pre-July 1, 2024rate of $684 a week.
It was going to be $1,028 aweek or 50.
(23:40):
I think that comes out to like$54,000, $55,000 a year.
You're an HR.
You can do the 20-80 math orthe times 52 math on that to
figure that out.
So this was a significantincrease for some people.
And then to take it away andyou know what I just thought
about this.
They're taking away people'smoney right before the holidays.
And you're saying oh, look at me, it's a fat raise and I'm going
(24:03):
to spoil my kids a little bitmore.
I'm going to spoil myself alittle little bit more.
I'm going to, you know, spoilmyself a little bit more.
Andrew Quilpa (24:10):
You know treat yourself, treat yourself, treat
yourself 2024.
Cee Cee (24:15):
Just kidding, oh my gosh.
Warren (24:19):
Well, adding insult to entry on this, I didn't read the
article.
I only saw the headline thatthe reducing of this taking away
this pay and reducing thesepeople's pay has disparate
impact on minorities minorities.
(24:44):
So I think we're going to seesome lawsuits out of this, not
based on the exemption levelstatus, but taking away pay from
there's a certain group.
Minority groups were affecteddifferently than other groups.
So I think you're going to seea lot of fun out of this one.
A lot of fun out of this one,but that I don't know.
That's just so.
If you've given the raise andthe law changes back, you acted
(25:08):
too early.
A we at my company were lookingat it.
We only had, I think, five orsix people that would fall below
this, and we came up with agame plan for each of them.
What we're going to do somewould get increases, some
wouldn't get increase or getincreases to bring them above
that, and some would not, andwe'd make them non-exempt and we
(25:30):
had a plan that worked in placeand we were prepared to execute
that plan on January 1.
And that was what we were goingto do, and you know.
Then the judge backed out andyou know how much well, I
actually there was an article.
It was going to cost severalmillion dollars a year not
(25:52):
tremendously a year to keep thisin place.
But yeah and then.
Okay, here's the other thingI've seen all over social media.
Well, you can pay your footballcoach this much and your
basketball coach this much, butyou can't play the players, and
that's a whole farce of asituation because the booster
(26:13):
club is floating most of thesecoaches' salaries versus the
school.
The school is paying them highsalaries, no doubt about it.
But if you have a coach making$10 million a year, the bulk of
that's coming from the privateorganizations of the booster
club, et cetera.
So yeah, the coach is stillmaking probably a million or
more from the school, but not asmuch.
(26:36):
Their money comes from multiplesources.
As someone who follows thatstuff online because A I'm an HR
nerd and B I like sports andfollowing that type of
information as well- it's justdisappointing because, there's
something about that that seemsso.
Cee Cee (26:53):
That's handled correctly.
It seems so disingenuine.
We're not giving you a raisebecause you deserve it.
We're giving you a raisebecause the government's making
us.
But now that they're not makingus, then never mind, you don't
get it.
If I was an employee of theirsthat just got screwed like this,
I would be looking for anotherjob, Like 100%.
(27:14):
I'd be like screw you guys, youjerks.
I am fucking out of here.
So congratulations to the OhioState University for killing the
culture in one foul swoop.
Warren (27:30):
Yeah, I'm going to keep my eye on this.
I wouldn't be surprised if theydidn't switch back.
Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't thinkthis out all the way through.
Sort of like a Christmasvacation where he changes his
mind from the jelly of the monthclub Okay, you'll get your
bonus of last year and 10% orwhatever he does to it.
I wouldn't be surprised if andif, for nothing else, to keep
(27:53):
their asses out of lawsuit house.
Now you know, yeah, it'll costhim a couple million dollars a
year to do that, but that's awhole lot less expensive than a
discrimination lawsuit.
Cee Cee (28:04):
I'm curious about the disparate impact part, because
it makes sense it does.
I'm just curious about the insand outs of it, of how that's
coming about.
And you're right, it could bemajor lawsuits.
So I don't know.
Warren (28:20):
And now I admitted I didn't read the article.
I'll have to find that article,maybe elaborate on it in the
future.
But yeah, I think there'll bean interesting story to follow
going into the new year.
And I mean, just think thingsout.
Don't act, you know, justshooting from the hip up.
We don't have to do thisanymore.
(28:40):
Let's take these people's moneyaway.
Okay, this is something weshould probably have a
discussion about.
Weigh the pros and cons, andyou know how is it going to
affect our culture, our company,our morale, and it's also going
to affect the morale of peoplewho it didn't affect.
You know, my best friend mightbe one of the managers or
(29:02):
exempted-level employees who nowhas got a pay cut and you know
that sucks.
And now my work bestie is goingto be out looking for another
job and get a better job at Idon't know another school
somewhere.
It's going to impact so manylevels.
And then applicants, are yougoing to want to apply to that?
(29:25):
It's making national news.
Everybody hears about it, I'msure in the what are they in
Columbus Ohio?
I'm sure everybody in that areais talking about this.
And oh hell, I'm not going to gowork for a place that does this
to their employees I'm justgonna say I bet you, michigan,
didn't do this to theiremployees oh, a little rivalry
(29:51):
that's for my friend emily oh,and speaking of throwing money
out the window, the universityand it's probably going to be
picked up by the athleticboosters had to pay I forget how
much $100,000, $200,000, a bigamount for the fight they had
after the end of the Michigangame.
(30:11):
So you know.
But once again, and that'sprobably just going to be one
donor saying, oh, screw it, itwas good, I'm going to, you know
, pay, I'll give you the couplehundred thousand dollars just to
get rid of this font.
That's how things work in thebooster world and things like
that.
So yeah, it's going to be very,very interesting.
So yeah, the Ohio State, youreally stepped in one here and,
(30:37):
like I said, I'm not blaming theHR people there.
I'm sure this was the equivalentof their C-level.
I don't know if they come boardof governors, board of trustees
.
Cee Cee (30:46):
whatever it is, made this decision and HR just had to
execute their decisions andthis kind of goes back to those
conversations where it's like,because people are like HR is
not your friend, well, it's likewe're not your enemy, and I
guarantee you there is at leastone or two HR people in that
room giving their advice of likethis is a very bad idea.
(31:09):
Please don't Don't do this, andI guarantee you or I would like
to think that they wereadvocating and unfortunately
they were not part of thedecision process.
Warren (31:20):
Can we table this discussion and think about it a
little further before we takeany rash actions?
Maybe talk to some attorneys tosee what exactly is going to,
what our risks are here.
Cee Cee (31:32):
Well it's just you give someone a pile of money and
then you take it away, like youdon't put the genie back in the
bottle.
After that point, people havealready no-transcript.
(32:05):
Like no, they.
People feel like they deservethe pay increase that they get.
So when you then take it awayfrom them like try taking candy
away from a baby Like it's thesame thing, like they've now
adjusted their lifestyle it'shard to go back and I would be
looking for another job.
(32:26):
So and I can say that because,honestly, I did not go to
college in the Midwest, so Iwent to college in South Florida
and I got my master's in theNortheast.
I have no skin in that game.
But Ohio State University, theOhio State University.
You should be ashamed ofyourself.
Warren (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that's the title of ourepisode.
Cee Cee (32:52):
Call it.
Warren (32:53):
The Ohio State World Team.
Cee Cee (32:55):
It should be like the, the capital T-H-E disappointment
.
Warren (33:03):
The disappointment, Okay , the disappointment, and you
know you've got to think also,going from say someone was at
the very bottom of that scale.
They went from $800 a month to$1,100 a month, that's $300 a
month.
Some people might've donesomething like buy a new car and
(33:27):
finances oh, I can get you know, you're probably getting not
getting a brand new car, butyou're getting a nice used car
for for that type of money.
And now they've made thiscommit financial commitment
based on the school did.
And now they've made thisfinancial commitment based on
the school did.
And now they're going to behurting.
Cee Cee (33:43):
You know, I didn't even think about that.
Like $300 a month could be lifechanging.
And if someone, let's say,upgraded their apartment,
assigned a new lease in thatamount of time with this new pay
increase, with this new payincrease, and now all of a
sudden, like, maybe they arepaying like $100 a month, $200 a
month more, which in the grandscheme of things Doesn't sound
(34:06):
huge.
But I mean, if they were, thentheir pay was cut and they can
no longer afford to live in thatapartment.
Warren (34:15):
Honestly, they're forced to find a new job Because
that's what they've done?
You signed that lease?
Yeah, I would think at somepoint in my career.
I mean, like I said, $1,100,it's $55,000 a year.
I'm not going to do the fullmath here, but I remember once
(34:38):
upon a time oh, I can't wait tomake over $50,000 a year, but
now the way inflation is,everything is gone.
I mean, mortgage rates areridiculously high, Interest
rates on anything car loansanything is ridiculously high
right now.
$55,000 is not all that much,and that $100, $200, that's a
(35:01):
big difference in these people'slives.
So it's I don't know.
It's going to be definitelyworth watching what happens out
of this.
Cee Cee (35:11):
I would hope that Ohio State changes their mind,
because wow, it's not a cutelook Not cute, not the mirror,
as the kids are saying oh gosh,oh, I'll have to tell you
offline.
Warren (35:26):
I learned some new slang this past week and I was
telling my kids this and theywere just cringing uh, with my
new, my new slang.
Cee Cee (35:37):
So, anyway, okay, so I have to say this story because
this is so funny and it's it'seven funnier because it happened
to someone else this week andnow I have to share because I'm
not the only person.
Okay, so about, I want to say10 years ago I was running a
like a training.
I was facilitating aprofessional development session
for our college intern cohortand during that, like, we were
(36:03):
talking about time managementand how, like, you only have a
finite amount of time during theday room for what matters like
has the most impact, but thenalso what matters the most to
you.
So I kind of made people gothrough like and chart out like
what are taking up space intheir life.
And someone wrote on there thatwas you know.
I was like, oh, that's funny, Iloved Netflix and Chell.
(36:27):
So not knowing what Netflix,and Chell really meant.
And then, of course, as we'redebriefing and going through it,
people are saying I called itout and I said it, just like
that, I'm like I do love aNetflix and Chell through it.
People were saying I called itout and I was.
I said it, just like that, I'mlike I do love a Netflix.
So this whole room of like 20somethings are like cracking up
(36:47):
because I did not understandanything and I was like, oh, I'm
, I'm cool, hr.
So finally like oh, thankfullyone of them stopped me after and
was like hey, just let you know, like Netflix and shows, not
what you think it is.
And that was the day I startedto feel like I was no longer a
hip 22 year old and I was likeit is happening, I'm not one of
(37:12):
an old millennial, but it'sfunny because to someone I know
this week and it was the samething, and this individual is a
little older than I am, so Iwould say like she's probably in
her like early 50s, but anyway,she was just like she made the
(37:33):
same mistake and I was crackingup and I'm like A kids are still
using that term, hilarious andB I'm not the only one.
Warren (37:47):
Yeah, and see, I like, especially when my kids are
around and I can embarrass them,I'll say something completely
stupid.
I would probably say to my kidshey, go home and Netflix and
chill in front of their friends.
Would probably say to my kidshey, you want to?
go home and netflix and chill infront of their friends just get
a real out of the kids andthings like that.
So I the beauty of all themental abuse you can invoke on
(38:10):
your kids.
Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it'sgreat.
So, anyway, oh man.
So we are not going to berecording in two weeks.
I think we said our next weekrecord, first week in January.
So January 6th, 7th timeframe.
So I want to wish all thewonderful listeners who made
(38:33):
this awesome 2024 year great tocome back on.
I guess that means we publishJanuary 9th-ish.
I'm looking at a calendar sowe'll see where that goes.
We have some new plans whichactually we need to talk about
and see how we're going toexecute these plans and things
like that.
So, oh yeah, it's going to be alot of fun and yeah, so y'all
(38:56):
have a happy holiday season.
Whichever religion you choose,you can have a great one, and a
happy new year and things likethat.
So come see us again in 2025.
That I'll say.
The voice artist at thebeginning is Andrew Kolpa and
the intro and outro music isDouble the Double by the
(39:17):
Underschool Orchestra.
As always, I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (39:21):
I'm Cece.
Warren (39:23):
And we're here helping you survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Cee Cee (39:28):
See you on the other side 2025.
Warren (39:33):
Yes, alright, so oh.
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