November 20, 2025 • 42 mins
A quiet Thanksgiving plan turns into a high-stakes HR story: 20-plus fake employees on a real payroll, deepfake executives on urgent video calls, and wire transfers that vanish because the faces on the screen weren’t human at all. We pull the thread on ghost workers, AI-powered impersonation, and the ways remote hiring can be gamed, then rebuild a safer, saner system step by step.
We walk through the modern fraud playbook—deepfakes that mimic CFOs, ghost payroll profiles collecting salaries, third parties secretly doing the job, and criminal networks using “employees” to launder money or open backdoors to sensitive data. Then we get tactical. Identity verification needs more than an I‑9 snapshot: add live checks, secure video verification, and consistent FaceTime during onboarding; align with IT for least-privilege access, device compliance, and anomaly detection; and implement dual approvals with known-key phrases for any financial movement. Trust becomes a process, not a vibe.
Hiring still has to feel human. We take aim at clunky ATS flows that drive away great candidates. Keep applications as quick as placing an online order, avoid duplicate data entry, and use clear timelines and text follow-ups to prevent ghosting on both sides. At the same time, weave in light-touch anti-fraud checks and reference pathways that rely on authentic networks rather than easily faked profiles. The result is a pipeline that respects candidates and protects the business.
We close with practical scripts, small cultural habits, and a reminder to teach basic AI literacy at home and at work. When a request feels “off,” it’s okay to slow down and verify through a second channel. Layered verification, clear communication, and smarter access design take the drama out of hiring and keep your holidays—and budgets—intact.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present, or future employers.
If you've ever heard, my manageris unfair to me, I need you to
reset my HR portal password, orgotta ride up my employee for
(00:25):
crying too much.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Welcome to our little fame zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
SPEAKER_04 (00:45):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through to workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
I'm Cece.
SPEAKER_04 (00:56):
Right.
Wow.
It's only been two weeks, but itfeels like a lot longer.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
Yeah.
I feel like a lot has happened.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04):
Yeah, uh life has been crazy, and no, it but it's
all it's all good.
I I do have something I want toshare with you, and I you're
sitting down, so strap in.
I don't want you to fall down,and I want to make sure you
don't have any heart conditionsor anything that's gonna send
you into cardiac arrest oranything like that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Okay, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
Yesterday evening I found myself I don't know what
the right adjective is oradverb, I don't know what you'd
say, admiring or fascinated by,or uh maybe even a little bit of
respect for Donald Trumpyesterday.
(01:49):
So he was apparently and I don'thave the volume on at work.
I d I don't have don't throwanything at me.
I I don't have volume on at mywork, the TV's in the lobby, but
apparently Monday he had ahoarse voice or something like
that, and a reporter asked himwhy he was so hoarse, and he
said, I've been yelling atidiots all day long.
(02:12):
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I just loved I've been yellingat idiots all day long.
And so yeah, I I was like, okay,I'll take that.
Uh that's I like that.
I can I can feel your pain.
I don't I don't get to yell atpe idiots.
I would like to yell at somepeople until I became hoarse or
(02:35):
something like that, but no, Ijust I got a uh a kick out of
that.
It's like okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
I've been yelling at idiots all day.
SPEAKER_04 (02:44):
So yeah, that's all hate him.
Yeah, it was just funny.
I got it, like I said, I got alittle kick out of it.
And I almost never stop when uhit's it's a political or
something.
I just don't ever stop.
But when I saw Trump yelling atidiots, I'm like, what?
I had to actually I had to stopand read the the the script
underneath it and stuff.
(03:05):
Like, oh well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
So I have some it's just like a funny situation.
Next week is Thanksgiving.
I am looking forward to it.
It is one of my favoriteholidays of the year because I
just love to like I don't know,I just love the feeling of just
taking moments of gratitude.
And I know that sounds cheesy,but I also like I love that.
I also love the comfort food.
I love my friends, I love myfamily.
(03:29):
It's just it's my favoriteholiday.
So we're doing it at our housethis year.
I we are hosting.
My mom has kind of given thereins, well, half of the reins
to me.
She's still doing the turkey,which is fine.
Because here's a hot take no onecares about the turkey, it's all
about the sides.
Absolutely.
Turkey and oh go ahead.
(03:51):
Oh, and I was gonna say, and uhso today I had uh what is it?
An oven repair man come overbecause the display on my oven
is not working.
So it's kind of a fun guessinggame of I I think I'm on the
right temperature and I havethermometers in there.
So I'm like, maybe I can justget the display fixed.
(04:12):
Apparently, my oven is so oldthey don't make that piece
anymore.
And then they basically saidthey could rebuild the circuit
board for the display, and thatwould cost basically half the
amount of a new oven.
So guess who just ordered a newoven tonight?
Oh it was one of those thingswhere like I immediately okay,
(04:37):
so here's my thing.
If a repair person is gonna tellyou, don't bother, because he
did say that because he was justlike, if I were you, I would not
do this.
I trust the repair person,because if they're giving up
money or the opportunity to makemoney, I'm like, I'm just not
gonna do it.
So I immediately jumped onLowe's and they had a great oven
(04:58):
for 50% off because this isapparently a big appliance
holiday.
SPEAKER_04 (05:05):
Are you gonna be able to have it installed by by
Thanksgiving?
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
No, so we're still gonna play the guessing game on
Thanksgiving.
I don't think it's gonna getinstalled until like the it's
coming in the day beforeThanksgiving, so they probably
aren't gonna be able to evenschedule an installation until
then.
So we're still gonna play kindof the guessing game.
The bottom oven works fine.
(05:29):
That half of the display I cansee, and the other half, all I
know is that I when I turn iton, it goes automatically to
350, and then every beep is a 10degree or a five-degree
increment.
Okay.
So you have to count the beeps.
SPEAKER_04 (05:44):
Kevin, be quiet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
I'm counting beeps.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
Oh, well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
But I'm excited.
I'm I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
Yeah, I I love I do love Thanksgiving.
I do I like the overindulgencein food.
I am responsible for the turkey.
And Dawn does like I I I'mtrying to get her to tone it
down, the quantity of sides, butshe's got a billion.
It's actually tomorrow is ourkeep going, Dawn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
More sides.
SPEAKER_04 (06:14):
Yeah.
Our tomorrow's my worksFriendsgiving we're doing.
So we're we we decided to dothat tomorrow because we have
some people leaving town onThursday, so on a on work.
So we wanted to get as manyparticipants as we could in.
So yeah, we're havingFriendsgiving tomorrow at work,
which means I gotta remember notto pack a lunch.
But yeah, so I I follow theAlton Brown brining recipe.
(06:37):
I brine it for like three daysand and then I smoke it and on
my smoker.
And turkey is not it's the star,but it's the sides are what do
it.
But I it makes one damn goodturkey, I have to say.
And it's only gonna be my wifeand I, my son will be coming
home, and my in-laws will behere.
(06:58):
So we're gonna have enough foodfor 300 people.
And we all we host it, we preferto do the cooking ourselves.
We uh we prefer to doeverything, and we prefer to be
at our house except for the onlything is when you go to someone
else's house, you can leave.
When someone else comes to yourhouse, they linger.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's so much truth tothat.
Like you uh introverts prefergoing because we can leave when
we want to leave.
SPEAKER_04 (07:26):
Yes, uh yes, and because uh like I said, it's
only gonna be the five of us,and it's gonna be yeah, it's
gonna be interesting, and we'relooking forward.
We are looking forward to it.
I it is one of my favoriteholidays, but uh, I just wish uh
it would make a federal holidayout of Black Friday too, because
(07:47):
holidays that are not on uhMondays or Fridays are the worst
because like yeah, this pastweek I unexpectedly used too
much PTO, and I've been tryingto hoard it forever, and I'm
just uh between that andspending a week in the hospital
this year earlier this year andall that other stuff.
(08:07):
I didn't get to use all the PTOfor things I wanted to do, and I
want to hoard it, but it's justI'm and so I'm not taking off
Black Friday, I'm not taking offthe day after Christmas, I'm not
taking off the day after NewYear's, I'm just I'll be there,
I'll probably be there by myselfat work those days because
there's it's gonna be a a ghosttown there, so it's it's
(08:27):
interesting.
But yeah, it is it is my it isone of my favorite holidays.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah.
I I will get on my soapbox for asecond only because my my
manager asked me today, she'slike, Do you partake in Black
Friday?
And I was like, No, I don't.
I don't.
I stopped partaking in BlackBlack Friday when Black Friday
started at like I don't know,five o'clock on Thursday, like
(08:54):
for like stuff.
And I was just like, just giveus a day, man.
Just give us a day where we'renot sold at and give people the
opportunity to just be home.
Like, we don't have to do this.
So anyway, that's my now I willdo Cyber Monday.
Okay, but Black Friday, I'mlike, screw it.
I need one day of peace in mylife.
SPEAKER_04 (09:13):
Yeah, we we're not do we don't go to stores on
Black Friday.
I haven't done that in years,but I'll be I've set up all
sorts of alerts to uh for pricesof things I want, of things I
want, and that'll be reallycool.
But I I was gonna ask going backto Thanksgiving, what is your
favorite side?
What is the the one thing thatyou you have to have?
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
I have to have my mom's sausage stuffing.
Oh I have to have green beancasserole and the crappy green
bean casserole.
Like I like it with thecondensed soup.
Okay, I don't want any bougie,like barefoot contessa, like
special.
No, I want out of the can greenbean casserole.
SPEAKER_04 (09:58):
Okay, okay.
I I'm with you on a stuffing.
Dawn makes this, it started offmany years ago as Paula Dean's
stuffing recipe, but we'vemutated it over the years, so
it's you know, we we've changedit, but it is still it, it's
just it's it's crack.
I yeah, you I can just eat thatand be completely happy.
(10:22):
I'm not a green bean casseroleperson.
I'm not I'm not a fan of that.
What other I'm just trying tothink of the other side are
really, really oh, brown sugarstewed carrots.
I love doing that.
Yeah, that's that's probably myother favorite.
But Dawn does mat like I said,we're gonna have too many sides
for five people.
We're gonna have mac and cheese,and Dawn's homemade mac and
cheese is it's insane.
(10:44):
It's incredible.
Sweet potato casserole.
I mean, it's just gonna be it'swe're gonna be eating a ton.
I'm trying to get let's cut theportions down, do half portions
of everything because even myson isn't gonna take all this
stuff back to school, and if hedoes, it'll be you it'll be
wasted just the same.
It'll just make a six-hour tripin the car to be wasted versus
(11:04):
stay in our own refrigerator tothrow it out a few days later.
So yeah.
But stuffing is is my my thing.
Okay, so I've been searching HRworld, you've been pretty boring
lately.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
So boring.
SPEAKER_04 (11:22):
What what's going on?
I I haven't been able to findany good news stories, or I
haven't been really on socialmedia too much to see what's out
there and y'all are talkingabout, but wow, it's been it's
been pretty boring.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, I went down a really weirdrabbit hole.
So my friend was talking to meabout her company, and her
company is going through aninteresting situation, and this
is one of those situations whereshe's not supposed to know about
it, but she does.
And since I don't work there,she wants to gab to me.
So, anyway, basically theyidentified about 20, 25 fake
(12:02):
employees on their payroll.
So they're a global con they'rea global company.
There are a lot of people whowork remotely.
I would say the majority workremotely.
And now I guess the FBI isinvolved and all this kind of
stuff, and everything is likekept under wraps.
So obviously, I'm not gonna youknow name-drop who they are, but
(12:24):
it's insane because I was like,what is like a fake employee and
what do they do?
So I went down a crazy rabbithole and I wanted to share my
hyperfixation with all of you.
SPEAKER_04 (12:36):
Awesome.
I'm I'm really interested inthis topic.
It it's you know, it has Ididn't realize how prevalent the
issue was, and I'll I'll let youdo you do your thing, but my
company is investigated.
Uh, you know, may we have to dothings to make sure we're not
hiring fake employees.
And we did a case study, our theour security officer sent out a
(12:57):
case study on this, and Ithought it was really, really
interesting.
So what do you have?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
So basically the it's been a lot easier for
individuals to sneak intocompanies and become on their
payroll without them reallyhaving to give a real identity
and then also using like deepfakes and also, you know, just
highly uh relying on filters andstuff like that, so they can
(13:27):
actually move through theinterview process and move
through the onboarding processpretty like pretty stealthily.
And that's kind of the scarything, just because we are more
of a remote world right now, I'myou know thinking a lot of the
ways that we onboard employeeshas been you know different.
(13:47):
It's not like you're seeingthese people in person for new
higher orientation on Mondays.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
It it's really interesting.
This is there's and do you knowif if these fake employees are
they domestic, are theyinternational?
Are they you know bad players?
Or do you know anything about ohyes, all of the above.
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
They're kind of all over the place.
A lot of so so first of all, Iguess a lot of it is kind of
nefarious.
So a lot of the times they'rejust getting access and getting
an initial hire to get, youknow, access to internal systems
and data.
Because once, you know, onceyou're in the system, once
you're an employee, you can likego into the network, you can get
(14:31):
access to internal documents, oryou can either either like even
extract cons customer data,especially if it's like
competing.
So, yeah, so there's a lot ofthat.
There's also collecting payrollfor people who don't exist.
So these are known as ghostemployees.
It's a scam, but AI basicallylets one person to pretend to be
(14:52):
multiple employees acrossmultiple companies, and they're
just kind of collectingpaychecks for like zero work.
And they can like get away withthis in if you think of like
like call center, like remotecall center things or or stuff
like that.
Like they're just they're justcollecting paychecks from
companies with doing like nowork.
SPEAKER_04 (15:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Then we have people who are like ac they're like an
access point for a largercriminal organization.
So like a fake employee can goin and they can be used to do
things like launder money or setup fake vendor relationships or
approve fraudulent invoices.
So yeah, so there's definitelythat kind of stuff where they
could just be funneling moneyinto their own accounts.
(15:36):
And then finally, or no, andthen there's also the
impersonating internal leaders.
So you'll get like deep fakeaudio or deep fake video calls,
and like it is like your CFO orlike a VP who's asking you to go
buy those gift cards, except nowtheir voice, you hear their
voice and it sounds just likethem, or you're you took a call
(15:59):
and they're deepfaking it and itlooks like them and it sounds
like them, so it must be them,you know.
So there's that, and thenthere's also people who pass off
work to other people andoutsourcing illegally.
Yes, which I am oddly fascinatedwith.
So so yeah, so someone will takethe job, they will take the
(16:22):
salary, but they will paysomeone else like a fraction of
it to actually do the work whilethey sit back and do nothing.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:31):
I've I've heard of multiple the last one you
covered, the the farming it out.
I've I heard about that uh a fewtimes before, and I'm just like,
you know, first it it reallytakes some audacity to do those
things.
Audacity.
The audacity to do those things.
I'm just I I would be too afraidof getting caught.
(16:54):
I'm a wimpy wimp when it comesto things like that.
I don't want want to be caughtand busted for something like
that, but these people, theyjust don't care.
And what you said about plants,I was just trying to find an
article that we had to watch anddo.
But North Korea hires thesepeople, real quote unquote, real
jobs.
They're well, they are real jobsfor this person, and they their
(17:17):
job, and they do get paid forthis, it's not a well, it is a
scam on a certain degree, theytell them to go and buy 50 of
these type of computers and thenset them up in a certain way and
get them online so they candownload, and then they let the
North Koreans remote in from andthe lady that they were
interviewing, she didn't thinkshe was doing anything wrong
(17:38):
when she got busted.
She was in Arizona or something,and she basically turned her
house into a DYI like serverfarm for these people, and they
were just the North Koreans wereremoting in and working and you
know, trying to get access toinformation that way through
clients, and and the they wereusing her addresses and
(18:00):
addresses that she would set upfor them, and she thought she
didn't think she was doinganything.
I'm like, okay, let's if you canbuild because they also told her
not to hire outsource any ofthis.
Uh they'll go and walk herthrough step by step how to set
up all these networks and thingslike that.
If you're smart enough to dothat, aren't you smart enough to
think this doesn't pass thesmell test?
(18:21):
You know, they're paying me alot of money to set these
computers up so people canremote in and work from my house
on my IP address.
And the deep fake, the deepfaking is incredible.
I I do encourage everybody to goto Good Morning HR and on their
website, Mike Coffey talks aboutdeepfakes, and he does a deep
fake of himself, and it isincredible, y'all.
(18:45):
It I I wouldn't have known thatthat was a deep fake.
And it was it was it was reallyinteresting, and he's done
multiple podcasts on GoodMorningHR about people doing
these deep fakes and and thingslike that.
I'm just like, wow.
But I've also seen informationon how to I saw an article I was
(19:07):
also trying to pull up after youwere talking about how to spot
deep fakes.
And yeah, you're looking for thelittle paw awkward pauses and
things like that, but it'salmost real time.
They can put superimpose someoneelse's face in front of me and
and then make my mouth move towhatever it has me saying, but
I'm there in person.
They say, they say, raise yourright hand.
I can raise my right hand.
(19:28):
Yeah, because that's one of thethings they apparently tell
people to do in if they startsuspecting deep fakes, do a
gesture or something like that.
That might be that might bedifficult for AI to to pick up
on quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Maybe put your hand in front of your face.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (19:45):
I don't know.
It's that is such a weird andinteresting situation.
And I just think Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
But so they were so they mentioned that thing about
North Korea that you werementioning that was on here, and
then they were also talkingabout a multimillion dollar deep
fake CFO scam with anengineering firm called AROP,
ARUP.
I probably said that wrong.
But basically, an employeereceived a video call with the
CFO, who they thought was theCFO, and several other senior
(20:17):
leaders, but all of them weredeepfakes, and they were
instructed to transfer moneyurgently in several accounts,
and it was a total loss of 25million US dollars.
But I think what you said beforewas like there needs to be some
kind of AI literacy that needsto be somewhat taught.
I mean, this is like such astupid example, but my you know,
(20:39):
my parents, they they watchBean, they watch the baby, and
when they're like, I went overtoday and they're like, Oh,
there's a new Miss Rachel video.
And I was like, listen, I know Icelebrate her entire catalog.
I know everything.
So I've like, I didn't know MissRachel dropped a new video.
And they're like, yeah, and Istarted, and they're like, it
has to do with like AI babies,and I'm like, what?
(21:02):
And it was literally justsomeone taking a Miss Rachel
video, splicing it, and puttinglike AI, like very realistic AI
images of toddlers likepronouncing words.
But I was like, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa.
First of all, I had to give myparents a lesson on like this is
how you identify the creator.
(21:23):
Like you can see, this is notthe verified creator on YouTube,
but also just I was Iimmediately was like, do not let
her watch this video.
I think it's so scary for likewe people who are literate in
person-to-person contact, likewe even have trouble deciphering
(21:44):
deep fakes sometimes.
So if you're like introducing itto babies, I'm not listening I
don't know what I'm talkingabout.
This is just like a gut thing.
But if you're introducing it tolike toddlers at such a young
age, like how are they gonnaknow the difference?
If they're just gonna they'renot gonna know it's real,
they're not gonna know it'sfake.
I don't know.
It's weird, it creeps me out.
SPEAKER_04 (22:03):
Well, in terms of deep fakes, I I know someone
he's a senior and he's beenscammed a couple times, and yet
he keeps falling for these deepfakes.
The the crown prince of Dubai isgonna be sending him, he just
needed to pay the shipping forthis and sent him a few hundred
(22:24):
dollars to cover the shipping ofthis very valuable package he
needs to watch for him.
And he sent him the bill oflading, and he's all excited,
and things like that.
This person also thinks thatElon Musk calls him and asks him
for advice, and he says he'sdone FaceTimes with him, and
it's really him and things likethat.
Angelina Jolie has also beenFaceTiming him.
(22:46):
Oh gosh.
Oh, and we're just like at Ithink at some point there should
be a license to get on theinternet or have a smartphone,
and you have to take a test, youknow, on certain things.
Like my my mother, she called mein a panic uh this was a few
months ago.
I just got this text that myApple account, my Apple bank
(23:09):
account's been compromised, andwhat does that mean?
And all this.
I'm like, Mom, you don't have anApple bank account.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
You don't have it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
You're fine.
And she goes, Well, how do theyknow I have an iPhone?
I said, They're playing thenumbers.
Half the world has AppleiPhones, and a portion of those
people have an Apple bankingaccount.
I said, This is not somethingyou need to worry about.
And I've been working hard withmy mother.
Okay, if the phone rings and youdon't recognize the number, let
it go to voicemail.
And she's like, Well, what ifit's one of my doctors?
(23:36):
They'll leave a message and youcall them back.
Leave a message and or programall your doctors into your
contact so you will know it'sthem.
And all these texts, if it's notsomebody you know, don't reply,
just hit delete and go on withyour day.
I'm just so worried that one daysomebody's gonna get her good
enough because uh she's had tocall the Social Security
(23:56):
Administration has called her afew times, and I'm like, oh no,
no, no, no, no, just they don'tcall you.
They they do not call you.
Don't give the them yourinformation.
If the social security numberadministration is calling you,
they don't need your socialsecurity number and things like
that.
That's there there needs to bethere needs to be a license for
people, and I'm not talkingabout just old people like I've
(24:17):
been talking about right now,but there's there's a lot of
naive people out there who justI I just don't understand it.
And I I don't know.
It's yeah, AI is crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
So I was thinking like, what are some ways that
you know, as working in HR thatyou can like maybe combat some
of this craziness?
So I was thinking, you know,we're I think we're pretty good
on identity verifications, butthere probably needs to be like
an extra step in that becauseyeah, we do like I9s and stuff,
but just like it is they now youcan do it remotely.
SPEAKER_04 (24:53):
Here's my I9 or here's my passport, and you know
so you have to be like a littlemore diligent about that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Yeah.
And I don't know how.
SPEAKER_04 (25:02):
You know, if somebody wants to try hard
enough to fool you and to theycan.
You know, there's there's ifthey want to try hard enough and
work hard enough, they can theycan do it.
Uh you you gotta assume there'sa certain amount of risk, but
something that spidey sense inthe back of your mind has to be
(25:23):
telling you, hmm, this isn'tsomething doesn't seem right.
I you know, I I don't I don'tknow.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
So there is like a there is like a thing, and I
think another thing to combat itwas you know w when you're doing
your remote onboarding, beingvery much more like purposeful
about it and making sure likeyou have a lot of FaceTime with
the individual.
Collaborate with your IT team,like talk with them, talk with
your security team, get thatunder control like make that a
(25:51):
partnership.
But also, this is interesting,it says trust in your talent
pipelines.
So I think it might be one ofthose situations where you're
most likely going to be hiringpeople who could at least be
referred by like three otherpeople deep that they know that
person.
SPEAKER_04 (26:07):
And now somebody was talking to me about it, wasn't
about fake employees, it wasabout I guess more verification,
but they were talking about Ithink our our company that we we
go and look at everybody'sLinkedIn profiles.
I said, if I can fake a put afake resume together, I can put
a fake LinkedIn profile, it justtakes an email address, and
(26:29):
that's it.
I can have a LinkedIn profilethat says anything I want.
I was like, that's not thethat's not the best idea.
And let me tell you, I what I II think I've said it before, as
soon as my son graduates andgets a real job, I'm off
LinkedIn, I'm done.
I I don't I can't.
LinkedIn is just becoming soinfuriating to me.
(26:50):
I I can't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
It's a very interesting place.
I follow a Reddit board calledLinkedIn Lunatics.
Yes, I follow that one too.
It is so good.
SPEAKER_04 (27:02):
Yeah, LinkedIn Lunatics.
I haven't been on Reddit in aquite a while, but yeah, I I
follow that one.
I I follow a few threads onReddit for for that.
But well, I am you know talkabout being in school.
I'm I'm doing a research paperon AI now, and I I have to
compare and compass different AIplatforms.
(27:22):
So I'm using Gemini, Perplexity,and Chat GPT.
And I'm I'm trying to doresearch on all of them.
Let me tell you, uh I I've Istarted with Gemini and I use
Gemini the most, and I've beenusing it for years.
I've only been using ChatGPT andChatBBGPT since the beginning of
the semester, really, and thenperplexity.
(27:42):
I only started using for thisspecific research paper.
But you know how I showed youChatGPT reference Jd HR when I
was asking something.
Well, oh yeah, I'm doing myresearch paper and it's trying
to connect, and I did it as aseparate project in Chat GPT,
and it's trying to it'sreferencing J Did HR.
(28:03):
So I'm like, and I've got toturn my link into my professor,
my ChatGPT link, and I have toshare that link with him.
I'm like, uh but I actually usedit as part of my I turned it
into part of my paper.
I was like, this is really whatif I it was something
embarrassing?
What if I'm I don't know, havesome deviant fetish or something
like that I'm looking on AI foror something like that that I'd
(28:24):
be embarrassed, and I'm sittinghere doing this research paper
and it's trying to put it up toclown midget porn or something
like that, and I'm just I don'tknow, but it's I I I was but I
try I I I took my frustration, Imade it part of my my paper.
I was like, you know, I there'snothing to hide with jaded HR or
anything like that.
But I was just like, this is ifI want research that I'm doing
(28:46):
for a school paper, I don't wantit my other searches bleeding
into it.
But I went to did the exact samequeries in all three.
Uh perplexity I've never usedbefore, so it doesn't have any
history of mine.
But Gemini, which I've used foryears in show prep, it it didn't
reference J D HR at all.
I thought that was reallyinteresting, the the security of
(29:08):
Chat GBT versus the other twoones that that I used.
And uh it was it was it waseye-opening, but I'm I'm having
I'm not having fun.
I'm I'm surviving this thispaper, but my other project is a
about the gosh, what is thetitle of my project?
(29:29):
Yeah, that's how bad it's been.
Applicant tracking systemsthrough the years, the past
technology, present technology,and where it's heading in the
future.
So talking about resume parsingand like when I first started
recruiting, the we had I don't Iwish I'd remembered the name of
it as I tried thinking of it,but I couldn't.
We we had an applicant trackingsystem, but basically was a
(29:49):
contact management database.
So we'd wrote load a resume upthat was either in Word or Word
Perfect.
It did not like PDFs, if youknow what word perfect is, but
you'd load it in that way andthen.
As a recruiter, we would have tomanually convert it to text and
load it again because that'swhat the the key the searching
could only do off of text.
A text file, it couldn't readthe other files.
(30:11):
And then as a recruiter, we'dhave to go in and put John Doe's
name, address, email, phonenumber, and all that manually in
there was no parsing at thattime.
Yeah, so I walk it from thatpoint to where we are today with
AI and what's coming down thepipeline next for AI.
But it's yeah, it's reallyinteresting to think of all the
(30:32):
changes I've seen over my careerjust in terms of recruiting and
applicant tracking systems andand things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
I hate to say it.
I I heard this once and Ibelieve it in my heart to be
true that if it takes someonelike if it takes someone longer
to apply for your job than it isto order something on Amazon,
like you've lost them.
(30:59):
Yeah, you have absolutely that'show fast it should be because
that's how it shouldn't, and I'msorry, it shouldn't be more than
like upload your freakingresume.
Like I have applied for roleswhere it was like upload your
red resume.
Okay, now everything in yourresume, now you're gonna write
it out.
Okay, and now you have to dothat.
SPEAKER_04 (31:20):
In my presentation about that, about the applicant
experience and saying, hey, itwas I forget who it is.
Oh, it's it's Adam Driver.
I loaded my resume.
Now I have to enter all the I Iput that, I forget exactly what
it says, but it's uh a hundredvariants of that, but I put that
in my my presentation about youknow why why even do parsing if
(31:41):
it's not gonna do anything.
And and I've been really helpingmy son apply for jobs the past
two years, it's been reallyinteresting.
The the wide variety you havesome that seem like they're
straight out of the 1990s, andthen you have some that are like
perfectly AI, great experiencesand real quick and easy uh
applies.
(32:01):
And I I just think exactly whatyou're thinking.
If if I'm in demand and I'mlooking for a job, if I have to
if I'm getting bored with yourprocess or frustrated, no, I'm
moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Oh yeah.
You know, it's funny becauselike we were talking about those
bot things, like oh, like thethe fake employees.
But I also like we're talkingabout this and applicant
tracking and all this kind ofstuff, and I also heard that
sometimes fake jobs will justappear online and like some of
it will be like one of thethings on the application will
(32:36):
be, oh, like solve for this,like what would be your
suggestion for solving for thisissue?
And like it's just them farmingfor information.
Like, there's no job, it's justthem, like as part of the like
just to prove how your brainworks, like answer these
questions, and they're all kindof getting at some kind of
(32:58):
solution that they're farmingfor.
SPEAKER_04 (33:00):
Yeah.
At at a previous employer I Iworked at, we got contacted by
somebody.
Uh, they were very angry about ajob application they were
completing for us because it wasasking all these questions.
I'm like, we we somebody hadstolen the logo and the template
and uh basically cloned our jobsomewhere else, and it was
(33:20):
asking illegal questions and itwas asking stupid things.
And I was like, whoa, you're noton our website.
This is not, and I I I got onthe I was on the phone with them
and I was like, I don't knowwhere you are, send me your
link, I'll send you our linkbecause this is you're not on
our our website.
And the scammers are out there,and it's it's incredible.
(33:42):
And the the getting people toapply to these jobs, and you see
it on LinkedIn all the time.
I got taken.
Actually, there was a an HRinfluencer I saw one of their
posts recently that they gottaken by a a job scam that oh
you send me X amount of moneyand we'll help and you'll get
this, that, and the other thing,and they didn't get it and it
got ripped off.
It's the job markets it's it'syeah okay, switching gears, the
(34:07):
job market.
I have so many differentopinions of how the job market
is.
I if I could find ten engineersto do what we need them to do,
I'd hire them tomorrow.
And we're going through ourapplicants like this.
We're getting them or snap,snap, snap, we're we're looking
at them all and responding tothem as quick as we can.
(34:29):
But we don't get as manyapplicants as we used to.
And I'm like, our jobs are atall the key places online to to
look for them, and we're justnot getting the response and the
traffic that we used to do.
But I hear all these otherpeople, I've applied to 30 jobs
and 500 jobs, and I haven't goteven a phone call.
Like, what are you applying to?
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
Is it pretty niche?
SPEAKER_04 (34:51):
Like you're it is it is niche.
Our our positions are veryniche, and and we realize it,
but a lot of times we we getmore quantity of resumes just
yeah, you know, people becauseyou can click here to apply and
you're applied.
And it that's the downside tothe we were talking about if it
takes you longer to buysomething on Amazon.
I love that analogy.
(35:12):
I'm gonna use that than to uhapply for a job.
You're doing it wrong.
And we have the easy applybutton.
You click here, upload yourresume.
If they want to it it gives themthe option to continue, but they
don't have to after that.
And it it's it works really,really well.
And we we do everything we canto make it as painless as
(35:34):
possible for a candidate toapply without you know breaking
their neck or getting bored withus or anything like that.
Is it's you've got to get peoplein.
And if I hear, oh, I can't findanybody.
I hear both sides, I can't findanybody, or I can't find a job.
I'm like, they where is it?
Where's the reality?
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
I honestly don't know.
I've been so out of recruitingand out of that area for so long
that I actually I have no ideaof what's going on with the job
market.
SPEAKER_04 (36:02):
Yeah, it it's it's I I don't know what to think of
it.
I get all these mixed mixedfeelings and feedback, mixed
reviews and things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:10):
So Yeah, because I have heard like people I I know
of people who've been lookingfor the past like six months.
Yeah.
But but they're more I mean,it's very it's a very skewed
sample there because they're alllike HR people in like director
level roles.
But you know I don't know.
(36:32):
I don't have the answer.
SPEAKER_04 (36:34):
Yeah, I I I don't either.
I'm I'd I wish we could figureit out as I just you you go on
LinkedIn, all these people Iapplied to 300 jobs and nobody's
called me back.
Well I you know, and then Idon't know, it's on the the
ghosting and the ghosting oh wehad uh okay this past week we
had somebody we made an offer,we made a verbal offer.
(36:59):
They they said they wereinterested.
We sent out the written offer,followed up with phone calls,
texts, emails, never heard backfrom them, and then we he said,
Oh, I haven't heard back fromyou.
And I was like, No, and then mwe were we verified the email
address and phone numbers andeverything.
Oh yeah, that's me.
And like we've been texting,calling, emailing you.
(37:20):
And he said, Oh, okay, well I'lluh so we sent it again, and uh
and then he just disappearedagain.
I'm like, okay, you're justyou're you're not winning here.
So that offer got rescinded.
Like, yeah, you're you'replaying a game of some sort.
I don't know what the game isyou're playing, but it it's a
bad game.
We're not we're not playinggames, we don't have time for
(37:42):
your crap.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
So it sounds like a horrible game.
SPEAKER_04 (37:45):
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, but what what I don't know
what the end game is for forthis person.
Like, I we don't have time forthis.
Move on next.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
So maybe it was a fake person, and you were
contacting the real person, andthe real person didn't know what
was going on.
SPEAKER_04 (38:04):
Okay.
Side tra sidebar from that mademe think my my assistant today
got a phone call, and this is myleast favorite thing remote.
Someone from this number calledme.
And they called her direct line.
Somebody from my this numbercalled me a minute ago.
She goes, No, I I didn't callyou.
I'm sorry, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
Well, what what are you why areyou calling me?
(38:24):
And she's like, I ended allattitude with with her, and then
she's well just just don't callat me anymore.
Like, I didn't call you in thefirst place.
And I I was like, What's goingon?
And she she was a little upsetabout it.
I'm like, gosh, people are justbeing difficult.
And but if you call me and thefirst words out of your mouth
was somebody called me from thisnumber, I'm like, I don't know.
(38:47):
I'll just say, I'm sorry, Idon't know what you're talking
about.
Bye.
I'm not I'm not entertainingthat that phone call, even if I
did call you.
That and that is a total Gen Zthing as that happened to me at
the water park all the time.
Oh yeah, somebody called me fromthis number.
SPEAKER_00 (39:01):
Well, yeah, no, not Hi, my name is so and so.
I'm returning a phone call.
SPEAKER_04 (39:06):
Yeah, uh yeah, it's just it's not that hard.
No, it's not that hard.
And or if it if I didn't leaveyou a voicemail or something, I
don't want you to call me back.
Other kids don't like mydaughter, her voicemail is just
turned off and I oh but text nowtexting.
I if I don't get someone, if I'mtrying to call someone, I don't
get them, as soon as I hang up,I send a text.
(39:27):
Hey, Warren just tried to callyou, call me back.
And so they know who it was andstuff like that.
And that's at work or at home.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Oh, it's the best thing.
I worked at a I I worked for acompany and we had like SMS text
that was like folded in as anextension into our Outlook.
So we could just like as justlike we're typing an email, just
send text messages out topeople, and it was fantastic way
to get in contact with people.
SPEAKER_04 (39:53):
I love it.
That we do, we have that aswell.
I love sending texts and becausepeople are quicker to respond,
actually.
I I find.
Or maybe they just couldn'tanswer the phone where they
were.
If you said, hey, most of thetime conversation, I like short
conversations.
I like, hey, I need you to fillout this, you know, go online
and fill out this form, or Ineed you to do this, or respond
to this email.
That's all I need.
(40:13):
That's all by thanks.
Quick and easy.
Well, let's see.
Well, we've rambled on for quitea while here.
Yeah, yeah.
I I will come to the table intwo weeks after Thanksgiving.
What is that will be oh twoweeks from now is not
(40:34):
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_03 (40:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:35):
So it'll be December.
Wow, our next episode will be inDecember.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
Crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (40:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:41):
This year flew by.
SPEAKER_04 (40:42):
It did.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Like this year, I'm like, this is the first time in
my life where I feel like I feellike this year lasted for six
months.
SPEAKER_04 (40:51):
It no, it it time is flying.
I I don't even know where thingshave gone, where things have
been, or anything like that.
But yeah, we'll we'll do we'llhave a you know, this one will
come out the Thursday beforeThanksgiving.
We'll have one the Thursdayafter, and I think we might take
the the re rest of the year offafter that.
So that's that's sort of myplan, just to chill.
(41:12):
They like like the idea ofchilling, come back fresh with
the with the new year.
But do want to get our thankyous out.
I usually try to get it, I'vebeen trying to get it out
earlier, but I've totallyblanked.
But Andrew Culpa, the voiceartist, the intro song is Double
the Double by the underscoreorchestra.
And then we have our Patreonsupporters, Hallie, the original
Jaded HR rock star, Mike andBill.
(41:33):
So thank you all very much.
And you know, it is the end ofthe year.
Give us a review, go online,your favorite podcast player,
Apple, whatever.
I haven't checked those inforever.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Give us an end of the year performance review.
SPEAKER_04 (41:44):
Give us an e pal.
You can reach us on social mediathat I have not been on in
months, but reach out to us, andthat'll be one of my
resolutions.
It's been my resolution for thepast um teen years to be better
on social media.
And I'm not.
SPEAKER_00 (41:59):
Yeah, I used to be so good, and now I'm so bad.
We'll get on it, we'll fix it.
SPEAKER_04 (42:06):
We'll work on that one.
It's a jerk.
But we will see we will see youin two weeks.
So as always, I'm Warren.
SPEAKER_00 (42:12):
I'm Stacey.
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
And we're here helping you survive HR1 what the
fuck moment in the time.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Bye!
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present, or future employers.
If you've ever heard, my manageris unfair to me, I need you to
reset my HR portal password, orgotta ride up my employee for
(00:25):
crying too much.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Welcome to our little fame zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
SPEAKER_04 (00:45):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through to workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
I'm Cece.
SPEAKER_04 (00:56):
Right.
Wow.
It's only been two weeks, but itfeels like a lot longer.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
Yeah.
I feel like a lot has happened.
SPEAKER_04 (01:04):
Yeah, uh life has been crazy, and no, it but it's
all it's all good.
I I do have something I want toshare with you, and I you're
sitting down, so strap in.
I don't want you to fall down,and I want to make sure you
don't have any heart conditionsor anything that's gonna send
you into cardiac arrest oranything like that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Okay, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
Yesterday evening I found myself I don't know what
the right adjective is oradverb, I don't know what you'd
say, admiring or fascinated by,or uh maybe even a little bit of
respect for Donald Trumpyesterday.
(01:49):
So he was apparently and I don'thave the volume on at work.
I d I don't have don't throwanything at me.
I I don't have volume on at mywork, the TV's in the lobby, but
apparently Monday he had ahoarse voice or something like
that, and a reporter asked himwhy he was so hoarse, and he
said, I've been yelling atidiots all day long.
(02:12):
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I just loved I've been yellingat idiots all day long.
And so yeah, I I was like, okay,I'll take that.
Uh that's I like that.
I can I can feel your pain.
I don't I don't get to yell atpe idiots.
I would like to yell at somepeople until I became hoarse or
(02:35):
something like that, but no, Ijust I got a uh a kick out of
that.
It's like okay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
I've been yelling at idiots all day.
SPEAKER_04 (02:44):
So yeah, that's all hate him.
Yeah, it was just funny.
I got it, like I said, I got alittle kick out of it.
And I almost never stop when uhit's it's a political or
something.
I just don't ever stop.
But when I saw Trump yelling atidiots, I'm like, what?
I had to actually I had to stopand read the the the script
underneath it and stuff.
(03:05):
Like, oh well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
So I have some it's just like a funny situation.
Next week is Thanksgiving.
I am looking forward to it.
It is one of my favoriteholidays of the year because I
just love to like I don't know,I just love the feeling of just
taking moments of gratitude.
And I know that sounds cheesy,but I also like I love that.
I also love the comfort food.
I love my friends, I love myfamily.
(03:29):
It's just it's my favoriteholiday.
So we're doing it at our housethis year.
I we are hosting.
My mom has kind of given thereins, well, half of the reins
to me.
She's still doing the turkey,which is fine.
Because here's a hot take no onecares about the turkey, it's all
about the sides.
Absolutely.
Turkey and oh go ahead.
(03:51):
Oh, and I was gonna say, and uhso today I had uh what is it?
An oven repair man come overbecause the display on my oven
is not working.
So it's kind of a fun guessinggame of I I think I'm on the
right temperature and I havethermometers in there.
So I'm like, maybe I can justget the display fixed.
(04:12):
Apparently, my oven is so oldthey don't make that piece
anymore.
And then they basically saidthey could rebuild the circuit
board for the display, and thatwould cost basically half the
amount of a new oven.
So guess who just ordered a newoven tonight?
Oh it was one of those thingswhere like I immediately okay,
(04:37):
so here's my thing.
If a repair person is gonna tellyou, don't bother, because he
did say that because he was justlike, if I were you, I would not
do this.
I trust the repair person,because if they're giving up
money or the opportunity to makemoney, I'm like, I'm just not
gonna do it.
So I immediately jumped onLowe's and they had a great oven
(04:58):
for 50% off because this isapparently a big appliance
holiday.
SPEAKER_04 (05:05):
Are you gonna be able to have it installed by by
Thanksgiving?
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
No, so we're still gonna play the guessing game on
Thanksgiving.
I don't think it's gonna getinstalled until like the it's
coming in the day beforeThanksgiving, so they probably
aren't gonna be able to evenschedule an installation until
then.
So we're still gonna play kindof the guessing game.
The bottom oven works fine.
(05:29):
That half of the display I cansee, and the other half, all I
know is that I when I turn iton, it goes automatically to
350, and then every beep is a 10degree or a five-degree
increment.
Okay.
So you have to count the beeps.
SPEAKER_04 (05:44):
Kevin, be quiet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:45):
I'm counting beeps.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
Oh, well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
But I'm excited.
I'm I'm excited.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
Yeah, I I love I do love Thanksgiving.
I do I like the overindulgencein food.
I am responsible for the turkey.
And Dawn does like I I I'mtrying to get her to tone it
down, the quantity of sides, butshe's got a billion.
It's actually tomorrow is ourkeep going, Dawn.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
More sides.
SPEAKER_04 (06:14):
Yeah.
Our tomorrow's my worksFriendsgiving we're doing.
So we're we we decided to dothat tomorrow because we have
some people leaving town onThursday, so on a on work.
So we wanted to get as manyparticipants as we could in.
So yeah, we're havingFriendsgiving tomorrow at work,
which means I gotta remember notto pack a lunch.
But yeah, so I I follow theAlton Brown brining recipe.
(06:37):
I brine it for like three daysand and then I smoke it and on
my smoker.
And turkey is not it's the star,but it's the sides are what do
it.
But I it makes one damn goodturkey, I have to say.
And it's only gonna be my wifeand I, my son will be coming
home, and my in-laws will behere.
(06:58):
So we're gonna have enough foodfor 300 people.
And we all we host it, we preferto do the cooking ourselves.
We uh we prefer to doeverything, and we prefer to be
at our house except for the onlything is when you go to someone
else's house, you can leave.
When someone else comes to yourhouse, they linger.
SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's so much truth tothat.
Like you uh introverts prefergoing because we can leave when
we want to leave.
SPEAKER_04 (07:26):
Yes, uh yes, and because uh like I said, it's
only gonna be the five of us,and it's gonna be yeah, it's
gonna be interesting, and we'relooking forward.
We are looking forward to it.
I it is one of my favoriteholidays, but uh, I just wish uh
it would make a federal holidayout of Black Friday too, because
(07:47):
holidays that are not on uhMondays or Fridays are the worst
because like yeah, this pastweek I unexpectedly used too
much PTO, and I've been tryingto hoard it forever, and I'm
just uh between that andspending a week in the hospital
this year earlier this year andall that other stuff.
(08:07):
I didn't get to use all the PTOfor things I wanted to do, and I
want to hoard it, but it's justI'm and so I'm not taking off
Black Friday, I'm not taking offthe day after Christmas, I'm not
taking off the day after NewYear's, I'm just I'll be there,
I'll probably be there by myselfat work those days because
there's it's gonna be a a ghosttown there, so it's it's
(08:27):
interesting.
But yeah, it is it is my it isone of my favorite holidays.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
Yeah.
I I will get on my soapbox for asecond only because my my
manager asked me today, she'slike, Do you partake in Black
Friday?
And I was like, No, I don't.
I don't.
I stopped partaking in BlackBlack Friday when Black Friday
started at like I don't know,five o'clock on Thursday, like
(08:54):
for like stuff.
And I was just like, just giveus a day, man.
Just give us a day where we'renot sold at and give people the
opportunity to just be home.
Like, we don't have to do this.
So anyway, that's my now I willdo Cyber Monday.
Okay, but Black Friday, I'mlike, screw it.
I need one day of peace in mylife.
SPEAKER_04 (09:13):
Yeah, we we're not do we don't go to stores on
Black Friday.
I haven't done that in years,but I'll be I've set up all
sorts of alerts to uh for pricesof things I want, of things I
want, and that'll be reallycool.
But I I was gonna ask going backto Thanksgiving, what is your
favorite side?
What is the the one thing thatyou you have to have?
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
I have to have my mom's sausage stuffing.
Oh I have to have green beancasserole and the crappy green
bean casserole.
Like I like it with thecondensed soup.
Okay, I don't want any bougie,like barefoot contessa, like
special.
No, I want out of the can greenbean casserole.
SPEAKER_04 (09:58):
Okay, okay.
I I'm with you on a stuffing.
Dawn makes this, it started offmany years ago as Paula Dean's
stuffing recipe, but we'vemutated it over the years, so
it's you know, we we've changedit, but it is still it, it's
just it's it's crack.
I yeah, you I can just eat thatand be completely happy.
(10:22):
I'm not a green bean casseroleperson.
I'm not I'm not a fan of that.
What other I'm just trying tothink of the other side are
really, really oh, brown sugarstewed carrots.
I love doing that.
Yeah, that's that's probably myother favorite.
But Dawn does mat like I said,we're gonna have too many sides
for five people.
We're gonna have mac and cheese,and Dawn's homemade mac and
cheese is it's insane.
(10:44):
It's incredible.
Sweet potato casserole.
I mean, it's just gonna be it'swe're gonna be eating a ton.
I'm trying to get let's cut theportions down, do half portions
of everything because even myson isn't gonna take all this
stuff back to school, and if hedoes, it'll be you it'll be
wasted just the same.
It'll just make a six-hour tripin the car to be wasted versus
(11:04):
stay in our own refrigerator tothrow it out a few days later.
So yeah.
But stuffing is is my my thing.
Okay, so I've been searching HRworld, you've been pretty boring
lately.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
So boring.
SPEAKER_04 (11:22):
What what's going on?
I I haven't been able to findany good news stories, or I
haven't been really on socialmedia too much to see what's out
there and y'all are talkingabout, but wow, it's been it's
been pretty boring.
SPEAKER_00 (11:37):
Yeah.
Well, I went down a really weirdrabbit hole.
So my friend was talking to meabout her company, and her
company is going through aninteresting situation, and this
is one of those situations whereshe's not supposed to know about
it, but she does.
And since I don't work there,she wants to gab to me.
So, anyway, basically theyidentified about 20, 25 fake
(12:02):
employees on their payroll.
So they're a global con they'rea global company.
There are a lot of people whowork remotely.
I would say the majority workremotely.
And now I guess the FBI isinvolved and all this kind of
stuff, and everything is likekept under wraps.
So obviously, I'm not gonna youknow name-drop who they are, but
(12:24):
it's insane because I was like,what is like a fake employee and
what do they do?
So I went down a crazy rabbithole and I wanted to share my
hyperfixation with all of you.
SPEAKER_04 (12:36):
Awesome.
I'm I'm really interested inthis topic.
It it's you know, it has Ididn't realize how prevalent the
issue was, and I'll I'll let youdo you do your thing, but my
company is investigated.
Uh, you know, may we have to dothings to make sure we're not
hiring fake employees.
And we did a case study, our theour security officer sent out a
(12:57):
case study on this, and Ithought it was really, really
interesting.
So what do you have?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
So basically the it's been a lot easier for
individuals to sneak intocompanies and become on their
payroll without them reallyhaving to give a real identity
and then also using like deepfakes and also, you know, just
highly uh relying on filters andstuff like that, so they can
(13:27):
actually move through theinterview process and move
through the onboarding processpretty like pretty stealthily.
And that's kind of the scarything, just because we are more
of a remote world right now, I'myou know thinking a lot of the
ways that we onboard employeeshas been you know different.
(13:47):
It's not like you're seeingthese people in person for new
higher orientation on Mondays.
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
It it's really interesting.
This is there's and do you knowif if these fake employees are
they domestic, are theyinternational?
Are they you know bad players?
Or do you know anything about ohyes, all of the above.
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
They're kind of all over the place.
A lot of so so first of all, Iguess a lot of it is kind of
nefarious.
So a lot of the times they'rejust getting access and getting
an initial hire to get, youknow, access to internal systems
and data.
Because once, you know, onceyou're in the system, once
you're an employee, you can likego into the network, you can get
(14:31):
access to internal documents, oryou can either either like even
extract cons customer data,especially if it's like
competing.
So, yeah, so there's a lot ofthat.
There's also collecting payrollfor people who don't exist.
So these are known as ghostemployees.
It's a scam, but AI basicallylets one person to pretend to be
(14:52):
multiple employees acrossmultiple companies, and they're
just kind of collectingpaychecks for like zero work.
And they can like get away withthis in if you think of like
like call center, like remotecall center things or or stuff
like that.
Like they're just they're justcollecting paychecks from
companies with doing like nowork.
SPEAKER_04 (15:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Then we have people who are like ac they're like an
access point for a largercriminal organization.
So like a fake employee can goin and they can be used to do
things like launder money or setup fake vendor relationships or
approve fraudulent invoices.
So yeah, so there's definitelythat kind of stuff where they
could just be funneling moneyinto their own accounts.
(15:36):
And then finally, or no, andthen there's also the
impersonating internal leaders.
So you'll get like deep fakeaudio or deep fake video calls,
and like it is like your CFO orlike a VP who's asking you to go
buy those gift cards, except nowtheir voice, you hear their
voice and it sounds just likethem, or you're you took a call
(15:59):
and they're deepfaking it and itlooks like them and it sounds
like them, so it must be them,you know.
So there's that, and thenthere's also people who pass off
work to other people andoutsourcing illegally.
Yes, which I am oddly fascinatedwith.
So so yeah, so someone will takethe job, they will take the
(16:22):
salary, but they will paysomeone else like a fraction of
it to actually do the work whilethey sit back and do nothing.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:31):
I've I've heard of multiple the last one you
covered, the the farming it out.
I've I heard about that uh a fewtimes before, and I'm just like,
you know, first it it reallytakes some audacity to do those
things.
Audacity.
The audacity to do those things.
I'm just I I would be too afraidof getting caught.
(16:54):
I'm a wimpy wimp when it comesto things like that.
I don't want want to be caughtand busted for something like
that, but these people, theyjust don't care.
And what you said about plants,I was just trying to find an
article that we had to watch anddo.
But North Korea hires thesepeople, real quote unquote, real
jobs.
They're well, they are real jobsfor this person, and they their
(17:17):
job, and they do get paid forthis, it's not a well, it is a
scam on a certain degree, theytell them to go and buy 50 of
these type of computers and thenset them up in a certain way and
get them online so they candownload, and then they let the
North Koreans remote in from andthe lady that they were
interviewing, she didn't thinkshe was doing anything wrong
(17:38):
when she got busted.
She was in Arizona or something,and she basically turned her
house into a DYI like serverfarm for these people, and they
were just the North Koreans wereremoting in and working and you
know, trying to get access toinformation that way through
clients, and and the they wereusing her addresses and
(18:00):
addresses that she would set upfor them, and she thought she
didn't think she was doinganything.
I'm like, okay, let's if you canbuild because they also told her
not to hire outsource any ofthis.
Uh they'll go and walk herthrough step by step how to set
up all these networks and thingslike that.
If you're smart enough to dothat, aren't you smart enough to
think this doesn't pass thesmell test?
(18:21):
You know, they're paying me alot of money to set these
computers up so people canremote in and work from my house
on my IP address.
And the deep fake, the deepfaking is incredible.
I I do encourage everybody to goto Good Morning HR and on their
website, Mike Coffey talks aboutdeepfakes, and he does a deep
fake of himself, and it isincredible, y'all.
(18:45):
It I I wouldn't have known thatthat was a deep fake.
And it was it was it was reallyinteresting, and he's done
multiple podcasts on GoodMorningHR about people doing
these deep fakes and and thingslike that.
I'm just like, wow.
But I've also seen informationon how to I saw an article I was
(19:07):
also trying to pull up after youwere talking about how to spot
deep fakes.
And yeah, you're looking for thelittle paw awkward pauses and
things like that, but it'salmost real time.
They can put superimpose someoneelse's face in front of me and
and then make my mouth move towhatever it has me saying, but
I'm there in person.
They say, they say, raise yourright hand.
I can raise my right hand.
(19:28):
Yeah, because that's one of thethings they apparently tell
people to do in if they startsuspecting deep fakes, do a
gesture or something like that.
That might be that might bedifficult for AI to to pick up
on quickly.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Maybe put your hand in front of your face.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (19:45):
I don't know.
It's that is such a weird andinteresting situation.
And I just think Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
But so they were so they mentioned that thing about
North Korea that you werementioning that was on here, and
then they were also talkingabout a multimillion dollar deep
fake CFO scam with anengineering firm called AROP,
ARUP.
I probably said that wrong.
But basically, an employeereceived a video call with the
CFO, who they thought was theCFO, and several other senior
(20:17):
leaders, but all of them weredeepfakes, and they were
instructed to transfer moneyurgently in several accounts,
and it was a total loss of 25million US dollars.
But I think what you said beforewas like there needs to be some
kind of AI literacy that needsto be somewhat taught.
I mean, this is like such astupid example, but my you know,
(20:39):
my parents, they they watchBean, they watch the baby, and
when they're like, I went overtoday and they're like, Oh,
there's a new Miss Rachel video.
And I was like, listen, I know Icelebrate her entire catalog.
I know everything.
So I've like, I didn't know MissRachel dropped a new video.
And they're like, yeah, and Istarted, and they're like, it
has to do with like AI babies,and I'm like, what?
(21:02):
And it was literally justsomeone taking a Miss Rachel
video, splicing it, and puttinglike AI, like very realistic AI
images of toddlers likepronouncing words.
But I was like, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa.
First of all, I had to give myparents a lesson on like this is
how you identify the creator.
(21:23):
Like you can see, this is notthe verified creator on YouTube,
but also just I was Iimmediately was like, do not let
her watch this video.
I think it's so scary for likewe people who are literate in
person-to-person contact, likewe even have trouble deciphering
(21:44):
deep fakes sometimes.
So if you're like introducing itto babies, I'm not listening I
don't know what I'm talkingabout.
This is just like a gut thing.
But if you're introducing it tolike toddlers at such a young
age, like how are they gonnaknow the difference?
If they're just gonna they'renot gonna know it's real,
they're not gonna know it'sfake.
I don't know.
It's weird, it creeps me out.
SPEAKER_04 (22:03):
Well, in terms of deep fakes, I I know someone
he's a senior and he's beenscammed a couple times, and yet
he keeps falling for these deepfakes.
The the crown prince of Dubai isgonna be sending him, he just
needed to pay the shipping forthis and sent him a few hundred
(22:24):
dollars to cover the shipping ofthis very valuable package he
needs to watch for him.
And he sent him the bill oflading, and he's all excited,
and things like that.
This person also thinks thatElon Musk calls him and asks him
for advice, and he says he'sdone FaceTimes with him, and
it's really him and things likethat.
Angelina Jolie has also beenFaceTiming him.
(22:46):
Oh gosh.
Oh, and we're just like at Ithink at some point there should
be a license to get on theinternet or have a smartphone,
and you have to take a test, youknow, on certain things.
Like my my mother, she called mein a panic uh this was a few
months ago.
I just got this text that myApple account, my Apple bank
(23:09):
account's been compromised, andwhat does that mean?
And all this.
I'm like, Mom, you don't have anApple bank account.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
You don't have it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
You're fine.
And she goes, Well, how do theyknow I have an iPhone?
I said, They're playing thenumbers.
Half the world has AppleiPhones, and a portion of those
people have an Apple bankingaccount.
I said, This is not somethingyou need to worry about.
And I've been working hard withmy mother.
Okay, if the phone rings and youdon't recognize the number, let
it go to voicemail.
And she's like, Well, what ifit's one of my doctors?
(23:36):
They'll leave a message and youcall them back.
Leave a message and or programall your doctors into your
contact so you will know it'sthem.
And all these texts, if it's notsomebody you know, don't reply,
just hit delete and go on withyour day.
I'm just so worried that one daysomebody's gonna get her good
enough because uh she's had tocall the Social Security
(23:56):
Administration has called her afew times, and I'm like, oh no,
no, no, no, no, just they don'tcall you.
They they do not call you.
Don't give the them yourinformation.
If the social security numberadministration is calling you,
they don't need your socialsecurity number and things like
that.
That's there there needs to bethere needs to be a license for
people, and I'm not talkingabout just old people like I've
(24:17):
been talking about right now,but there's there's a lot of
naive people out there who justI I just don't understand it.
And I I don't know.
It's yeah, AI is crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
So I was thinking like, what are some ways that
you know, as working in HR thatyou can like maybe combat some
of this craziness?
So I was thinking, you know,we're I think we're pretty good
on identity verifications, butthere probably needs to be like
an extra step in that becauseyeah, we do like I9s and stuff,
but just like it is they now youcan do it remotely.
SPEAKER_04 (24:53):
Here's my I9 or here's my passport, and you know
so you have to be like a littlemore diligent about that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Yeah.
And I don't know how.
SPEAKER_04 (25:02):
You know, if somebody wants to try hard
enough to fool you and to theycan.
You know, there's there's ifthey want to try hard enough and
work hard enough, they can theycan do it.
Uh you you gotta assume there'sa certain amount of risk, but
something that spidey sense inthe back of your mind has to be
(25:23):
telling you, hmm, this isn'tsomething doesn't seem right.
I you know, I I don't I don'tknow.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
So there is like a there is like a thing, and I
think another thing to combat itwas you know w when you're doing
your remote onboarding, beingvery much more like purposeful
about it and making sure likeyou have a lot of FaceTime with
the individual.
Collaborate with your IT team,like talk with them, talk with
your security team, get thatunder control like make that a
(25:51):
partnership.
But also, this is interesting,it says trust in your talent
pipelines.
So I think it might be one ofthose situations where you're
most likely going to be hiringpeople who could at least be
referred by like three otherpeople deep that they know that
person.
SPEAKER_04 (26:07):
And now somebody was talking to me about it, wasn't
about fake employees, it wasabout I guess more verification,
but they were talking about Ithink our our company that we we
go and look at everybody'sLinkedIn profiles.
I said, if I can fake a put afake resume together, I can put
a fake LinkedIn profile, it justtakes an email address, and
(26:29):
that's it.
I can have a LinkedIn profilethat says anything I want.
I was like, that's not thethat's not the best idea.
And let me tell you, I what I II think I've said it before, as
soon as my son graduates andgets a real job, I'm off
LinkedIn, I'm done.
I I don't I can't.
LinkedIn is just becoming soinfuriating to me.
(26:50):
I I can't do it anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
It's a very interesting place.
I follow a Reddit board calledLinkedIn Lunatics.
Yes, I follow that one too.
It is so good.
SPEAKER_04 (27:02):
Yeah, LinkedIn Lunatics.
I haven't been on Reddit in aquite a while, but yeah, I I
follow that one.
I I follow a few threads onReddit for for that.
But well, I am you know talkabout being in school.
I'm I'm doing a research paperon AI now, and I I have to
compare and compass different AIplatforms.
(27:22):
So I'm using Gemini, Perplexity,and Chat GPT.
And I'm I'm trying to doresearch on all of them.
Let me tell you, uh I I've Istarted with Gemini and I use
Gemini the most, and I've beenusing it for years.
I've only been using ChatGPT andChatBBGPT since the beginning of
the semester, really, and thenperplexity.
(27:42):
I only started using for thisspecific research paper.
But you know how I showed youChatGPT reference Jd HR when I
was asking something.
Well, oh yeah, I'm doing myresearch paper and it's trying
to connect, and I did it as aseparate project in Chat GPT,
and it's trying to it'sreferencing J Did HR.
(28:03):
So I'm like, and I've got toturn my link into my professor,
my ChatGPT link, and I have toshare that link with him.
I'm like, uh but I actually usedit as part of my I turned it
into part of my paper.
I was like, this is really whatif I it was something
embarrassing?
What if I'm I don't know, havesome deviant fetish or something
like that I'm looking on AI foror something like that that I'd
(28:24):
be embarrassed, and I'm sittinghere doing this research paper
and it's trying to put it up toclown midget porn or something
like that, and I'm just I don'tknow, but it's I I I was but I
try I I I took my frustration, Imade it part of my my paper.
I was like, you know, I there'snothing to hide with jaded HR or
anything like that.
But I was just like, this is ifI want research that I'm doing
(28:46):
for a school paper, I don't wantit my other searches bleeding
into it.
But I went to did the exact samequeries in all three.
Uh perplexity I've never usedbefore, so it doesn't have any
history of mine.
But Gemini, which I've used foryears in show prep, it it didn't
reference J D HR at all.
I thought that was reallyinteresting, the the security of
(29:08):
Chat GBT versus the other twoones that that I used.
And uh it was it was it waseye-opening, but I'm I'm having
I'm not having fun.
I'm I'm surviving this thispaper, but my other project is a
about the gosh, what is thetitle of my project?
(29:29):
Yeah, that's how bad it's been.
Applicant tracking systemsthrough the years, the past
technology, present technology,and where it's heading in the
future.
So talking about resume parsingand like when I first started
recruiting, the we had I don't Iwish I'd remembered the name of
it as I tried thinking of it,but I couldn't.
We we had an applicant trackingsystem, but basically was a
(29:49):
contact management database.
So we'd wrote load a resume upthat was either in Word or Word
Perfect.
It did not like PDFs, if youknow what word perfect is, but
you'd load it in that way andthen.
As a recruiter, we would have tomanually convert it to text and
load it again because that'swhat the the key the searching
could only do off of text.
A text file, it couldn't readthe other files.
(30:11):
And then as a recruiter, we'dhave to go in and put John Doe's
name, address, email, phonenumber, and all that manually in
there was no parsing at thattime.
Yeah, so I walk it from thatpoint to where we are today with
AI and what's coming down thepipeline next for AI.
But it's yeah, it's reallyinteresting to think of all the
(30:32):
changes I've seen over my careerjust in terms of recruiting and
applicant tracking systems andand things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
I hate to say it.
I I heard this once and Ibelieve it in my heart to be
true that if it takes someonelike if it takes someone longer
to apply for your job than it isto order something on Amazon,
like you've lost them.
(30:59):
Yeah, you have absolutely that'show fast it should be because
that's how it shouldn't, and I'msorry, it shouldn't be more than
like upload your freakingresume.
Like I have applied for roleswhere it was like upload your
red resume.
Okay, now everything in yourresume, now you're gonna write
it out.
Okay, and now you have to dothat.
SPEAKER_04 (31:20):
In my presentation about that, about the applicant
experience and saying, hey, itwas I forget who it is.
Oh, it's it's Adam Driver.
I loaded my resume.
Now I have to enter all the I Iput that, I forget exactly what
it says, but it's uh a hundredvariants of that, but I put that
in my my presentation about youknow why why even do parsing if
(31:41):
it's not gonna do anything.
And and I've been really helpingmy son apply for jobs the past
two years, it's been reallyinteresting.
The the wide variety you havesome that seem like they're
straight out of the 1990s, andthen you have some that are like
perfectly AI, great experiencesand real quick and easy uh
applies.
(32:01):
And I I just think exactly whatyou're thinking.
If if I'm in demand and I'mlooking for a job, if I have to
if I'm getting bored with yourprocess or frustrated, no, I'm
moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Oh yeah.
You know, it's funny becauselike we were talking about those
bot things, like oh, like thethe fake employees.
But I also like we're talkingabout this and applicant
tracking and all this kind ofstuff, and I also heard that
sometimes fake jobs will justappear online and like some of
it will be like one of thethings on the application will
(32:36):
be, oh, like solve for this,like what would be your
suggestion for solving for thisissue?
And like it's just them farmingfor information.
Like, there's no job, it's justthem, like as part of the like
just to prove how your brainworks, like answer these
questions, and they're all kindof getting at some kind of
(32:58):
solution that they're farmingfor.
SPEAKER_04 (33:00):
Yeah.
At at a previous employer I Iworked at, we got contacted by
somebody.
Uh, they were very angry about ajob application they were
completing for us because it wasasking all these questions.
I'm like, we we somebody hadstolen the logo and the template
and uh basically cloned our jobsomewhere else, and it was
(33:20):
asking illegal questions and itwas asking stupid things.
And I was like, whoa, you're noton our website.
This is not, and I I I got onthe I was on the phone with them
and I was like, I don't knowwhere you are, send me your
link, I'll send you our linkbecause this is you're not on
our our website.
And the scammers are out there,and it's it's incredible.
(33:42):
And the the getting people toapply to these jobs, and you see
it on LinkedIn all the time.
I got taken.
Actually, there was a an HRinfluencer I saw one of their
posts recently that they gottaken by a a job scam that oh
you send me X amount of moneyand we'll help and you'll get
this, that, and the other thing,and they didn't get it and it
got ripped off.
It's the job markets it's it'syeah okay, switching gears, the
(34:07):
job market.
I have so many differentopinions of how the job market
is.
I if I could find ten engineersto do what we need them to do,
I'd hire them tomorrow.
And we're going through ourapplicants like this.
We're getting them or snap,snap, snap, we're we're looking
at them all and responding tothem as quick as we can.
(34:29):
But we don't get as manyapplicants as we used to.
And I'm like, our jobs are atall the key places online to to
look for them, and we're justnot getting the response and the
traffic that we used to do.
But I hear all these otherpeople, I've applied to 30 jobs
and 500 jobs, and I haven't goteven a phone call.
Like, what are you applying to?
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
Is it pretty niche?
SPEAKER_04 (34:51):
Like you're it is it is niche.
Our our positions are veryniche, and and we realize it,
but a lot of times we we getmore quantity of resumes just
yeah, you know, people becauseyou can click here to apply and
you're applied.
And it that's the downside tothe we were talking about if it
takes you longer to buysomething on Amazon.
I love that analogy.
(35:12):
I'm gonna use that than to uhapply for a job.
You're doing it wrong.
And we have the easy applybutton.
You click here, upload yourresume.
If they want to it it gives themthe option to continue, but they
don't have to after that.
And it it's it works really,really well.
And we we do everything we canto make it as painless as
(35:34):
possible for a candidate toapply without you know breaking
their neck or getting bored withus or anything like that.
Is it's you've got to get peoplein.
And if I hear, oh, I can't findanybody.
I hear both sides, I can't findanybody, or I can't find a job.
I'm like, they where is it?
Where's the reality?
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
I honestly don't know.
I've been so out of recruitingand out of that area for so long
that I actually I have no ideaof what's going on with the job
market.
SPEAKER_04 (36:02):
Yeah, it it's it's I I don't know what to think of
it.
I get all these mixed mixedfeelings and feedback, mixed
reviews and things like that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:10):
So Yeah, because I have heard like people I I know
of people who've been lookingfor the past like six months.
Yeah.
But but they're more I mean,it's very it's a very skewed
sample there because they're alllike HR people in like director
level roles.
But you know I don't know.
(36:32):
I don't have the answer.
SPEAKER_04 (36:34):
Yeah, I I I don't either.
I'm I'd I wish we could figureit out as I just you you go on
LinkedIn, all these people Iapplied to 300 jobs and nobody's
called me back.
Well I you know, and then Idon't know, it's on the the
ghosting and the ghosting oh wehad uh okay this past week we
had somebody we made an offer,we made a verbal offer.
(36:59):
They they said they wereinterested.
We sent out the written offer,followed up with phone calls,
texts, emails, never heard backfrom them, and then we he said,
Oh, I haven't heard back fromyou.
And I was like, No, and then mwe were we verified the email
address and phone numbers andeverything.
Oh yeah, that's me.
And like we've been texting,calling, emailing you.
(37:20):
And he said, Oh, okay, well I'lluh so we sent it again, and uh
and then he just disappearedagain.
I'm like, okay, you're justyou're you're not winning here.
So that offer got rescinded.
Like, yeah, you're you'replaying a game of some sort.
I don't know what the game isyou're playing, but it it's a
bad game.
We're not we're not playinggames, we don't have time for
(37:42):
your crap.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
So it sounds like a horrible game.
SPEAKER_04 (37:45):
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, but what what I don't know
what the end game is for forthis person.
Like, I we don't have time forthis.
Move on next.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
So maybe it was a fake person, and you were
contacting the real person, andthe real person didn't know what
was going on.
SPEAKER_04 (38:04):
Okay.
Side tra sidebar from that mademe think my my assistant today
got a phone call, and this is myleast favorite thing remote.
Someone from this number calledme.
And they called her direct line.
Somebody from my this numbercalled me a minute ago.
She goes, No, I I didn't callyou.
I'm sorry, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
Well, what what are you why areyou calling me?
(38:24):
And she's like, I ended allattitude with with her, and then
she's well just just don't callat me anymore.
Like, I didn't call you in thefirst place.
And I I was like, What's goingon?
And she she was a little upsetabout it.
I'm like, gosh, people are justbeing difficult.
And but if you call me and thefirst words out of your mouth
was somebody called me from thisnumber, I'm like, I don't know.
(38:47):
I'll just say, I'm sorry, Idon't know what you're talking
about.
Bye.
I'm not I'm not entertainingthat that phone call, even if I
did call you.
That and that is a total Gen Zthing as that happened to me at
the water park all the time.
Oh yeah, somebody called me fromthis number.
SPEAKER_00 (39:01):
Well, yeah, no, not Hi, my name is so and so.
I'm returning a phone call.
SPEAKER_04 (39:06):
Yeah, uh yeah, it's just it's not that hard.
No, it's not that hard.
And or if it if I didn't leaveyou a voicemail or something, I
don't want you to call me back.
Other kids don't like mydaughter, her voicemail is just
turned off and I oh but text nowtexting.
I if I don't get someone, if I'mtrying to call someone, I don't
get them, as soon as I hang up,I send a text.
(39:27):
Hey, Warren just tried to callyou, call me back.
And so they know who it was andstuff like that.
And that's at work or at home.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Oh, it's the best thing.
I worked at a I I worked for acompany and we had like SMS text
that was like folded in as anextension into our Outlook.
So we could just like as justlike we're typing an email, just
send text messages out topeople, and it was fantastic way
to get in contact with people.
SPEAKER_04 (39:53):
I love it.
That we do, we have that aswell.
I love sending texts and becausepeople are quicker to respond,
actually.
I I find.
Or maybe they just couldn'tanswer the phone where they
were.
If you said, hey, most of thetime conversation, I like short
conversations.
I like, hey, I need you to fillout this, you know, go online
and fill out this form, or Ineed you to do this, or respond
to this email.
That's all I need.
(40:13):
That's all by thanks.
Quick and easy.
Well, let's see.
Well, we've rambled on for quitea while here.
Yeah, yeah.
I I will come to the table intwo weeks after Thanksgiving.
What is that will be oh twoweeks from now is not
(40:34):
Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_03 (40:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:35):
So it'll be December.
Wow, our next episode will be inDecember.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
Crazy.
SPEAKER_04 (40:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:41):
This year flew by.
SPEAKER_04 (40:42):
It did.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
Like this year, I'm like, this is the first time in
my life where I feel like I feellike this year lasted for six
months.
SPEAKER_04 (40:51):
It no, it it time is flying.
I I don't even know where thingshave gone, where things have
been, or anything like that.
But yeah, we'll we'll do we'llhave a you know, this one will
come out the Thursday beforeThanksgiving.
We'll have one the Thursdayafter, and I think we might take
the the re rest of the year offafter that.
So that's that's sort of myplan, just to chill.
(41:12):
They like like the idea ofchilling, come back fresh with
the with the new year.
But do want to get our thankyous out.
I usually try to get it, I'vebeen trying to get it out
earlier, but I've totallyblanked.
But Andrew Culpa, the voiceartist, the intro song is Double
the Double by the underscoreorchestra.
And then we have our Patreonsupporters, Hallie, the original
Jaded HR rock star, Mike andBill.
(41:33):
So thank you all very much.
And you know, it is the end ofthe year.
Give us a review, go online,your favorite podcast player,
Apple, whatever.
I haven't checked those inforever.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Give us an end of the year performance review.
SPEAKER_04 (41:44):
Give us an e pal.
You can reach us on social mediathat I have not been on in
months, but reach out to us, andthat'll be one of my
resolutions.
It's been my resolution for thepast um teen years to be better
on social media.
And I'm not.
SPEAKER_00 (41:59):
Yeah, I used to be so good, and now I'm so bad.
We'll get on it, we'll fix it.
SPEAKER_04 (42:06):
We'll work on that one.
It's a jerk.
But we will see we will see youin two weeks.
So as always, I'm Warren.
SPEAKER_00 (42:12):
I'm Stacey.
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
And we're here helping you survive HR1 what the
fuck moment in the time.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
Bye!
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