January 15, 2026 • 28 mins
This week, we hear from retired Washington D.C. police sergeant and pastor Dale Sutherland, who shares how his faith carried him through dangerous undercover work, false accusations, and ultimately inspired him to launch a ministry that brings hope to families in crisis.
Later in the episode, we’ll hear from Haley Scully, who has spent nearly fifteen years with Hope for the Heart, equipping people to offer compassionate care within their communities. Through her own journey of navigating disappointment and renewal, she’s gained a deep understanding of the struggles others face—and a passion to restore their confidence and hope.
Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned:
Past interview: Clarissa and Fiona Moll
Upcoming interview: Chris Blair
Interview Quotes:
“I’ve been shot at, robbed, and threatened a lot of times. But by God’s grace, I’m here.” - Dale Sutherland
“[Being a police officer] was intense, yes, but the great thing is knowing Jesus the Lord went with me on all those calls. When I got ready to do an undercover, I prayed and asked the Lord for help. I really think any success I’ve received or been blessed with has truly been a result of the Lord’s work and answering all those prayers.” - Dale Sutherland
“The Lord helped me a tremendous amount so that I could do my job but not let my own worries or feelings about what might happen or what has happened—almost like an on and off switch.” - Dale Sutherland
“That time of trying to understand the goodness of God and His calling, in spite of some of the biggest disappointment and hurt in my life, that was certainly a time that I didn’t feel uncertain of Him, but I was feeling afraid and definitely stretched. I had to search through His Word with Him and really dig in to believe that He is good in spite of those disappointments.” - Haley Scully
“When we allow God to use the gifts that He’s given us and we allow Him to shape that, it takes off all the pressure. That’s when the burden is light, when the yoke is on the Lord. I just get to help lead people to His Word.”- Haley Scully
“Whether we are in a village in Africa or we’re in a high rise in Hong Kong, it does not matter where we are, the struggles of the human heart are the same.” - Haley Scully
“We know that people are carrying quite a load as the
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Life audio. Find inspiration as close as your phone. Download
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and Google Play stores.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Been shot at, ben robbed, been threatened a lot of times,
with some pretty bad people planning to kill me, But
oh my God, stray some here.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we hear
from retired Washington d C. Police sergeant and pastor Dhill Sutherland,
who shares how his faith carried him through dangerous undercover work,
false accusations, and ultimately inspired him to launch a ministry
that brings hope to families and crisis. Later in the episode,
we'll hear from Hailey Scully, who has spent nearly fifteen
(00:56):
years with Hope for the Heart, a ministry equipping people
to offer compassionate care within their communities. Through her own
journey of navigating disappointment and renewal, gained a deep understanding
of the struggles other space and a passion to equip
them with confidence and hope. Let's begin with Dale's story.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My name is Dale Sutherland. I am a retired DC
Police sergeant. I worked in narcotics most of my career.
I was there almost twenty six years, and then it's
been three years in another police farm before that, So
about twenty nine years of law enforcement. I went to
Bible College and I now when I retired, and even
(01:42):
during the last four years my police career, I did both.
I was a pastor and an undercoment police officer at
the same time. And also I have three daughters and
thirty grandchildren and two more on the way. Right start
of high school is when Chrysler we got a hold
of me and I found out that it was actually
(02:03):
it was better way to live was with jess is
the center of my life. Not a boring, get yelled
at in church type of walk with the Lord, but
a real walk with the Lord. Jesus requires everything but
also gives everything. I've never had clarity for the Lord,
like you know you have to go do this thing
or that thing. I just knew I was supposed to
(02:23):
do the things he told me to do. I think
if Thesis two ten, for we are His workmanship created
in Christ Jesus to do certain good works. I've always
had a passion to show the Gospel and to teach
the Bible. Even I could numbered sixteen meet my first
sermon and a mission, and I always want to teach
a Bible. I always wanted to get the Gospel out
and see people become Christians. That would be the best
(02:45):
thing I could ever give anybody, is to introduce them
to the Savior, the whole world, the Creator, and also
the one who gave his life for people. So anyway,
that was my clear conviction. I didn't know how I
was supposed to do it, but that was the plan. Eventually,
I want to be a pastor and wanted to work
(03:05):
with Irvin Kits And that's what led.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Me to Washington, d c.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And to the Police de Farm. It was dangerous sometimes
as a police officer. At the beginning of my career
was the moost dangerous. I started on the police farm
right in the middle of what we would refer to
as the Crack Wars, because across the United States, every
city in the country was maybe five times their normal
murder rate all of a sudden, and that ran all
(03:31):
the way to almost nineteen five and I came in
right then, so things were happening. I mean, people were
getting shot. I remember when I got promoted sergeant in
nineteen ninety three went back to uniform for a while,
and I can remember one midnight shift there was five
shootings going on just in my district, just with that
a few blocks of each other, five victims, and my
(03:52):
job was to go to each location and try to
determine if I was going to live or not, because
we had to pick which detectives should be sent, homicide
or our disrect detective. It wasn't dense, yes, but the
great thing is knowing Jesus, the Lord went with me
on all those calls, and when I got ready to
do an undercover I prayed. I asked the Lord for help,
And I really think any success I've perceived or been
(04:15):
blessed with has truly been a result of the Lord's
work and answering all those prayers. Been shot at and
robbed and threatened a lot of times with some pretty
bad people planning to kill me. But if I got stray,
so I'm here, and I really felt confident in that world.
As the Lord envy serving there, I saw a lot
(04:37):
of dark things. I can remember being inundated with violence, gunshots,
blood on various points in my career and easily becoming
more and more generous, like more and more where there's
something they talk about with police, doctors and nurses, soldier servement.
(04:57):
You see a lot of bad things happen to people.
I say, the Lord gives you a certain resistance to,
you know, collapsing or falling apart or making it your own.
Lord helped me with that a tremendous amount so that
(05:18):
I could do my job but not let my own
worries or feelings about what might happen or has happened,
almost like a like an on and off switch you
could turn on and off, but with the Lord with
he's on on all the time, of course, but I
just mean the way I wouldn't worry in a lot
of circumstances. Now. The one exception to them with children,
if there was a child involved, going on search horns,
(05:40):
knocking down doors, searching place where they sell drugs and
digging through everything. Over there you see in the corner
a child that is crying and is going to end
up foster caring. So that step bothered me a little
bit more. In my Fleas career, one end double a
lot of stress and anxieties. At one point I was
(06:01):
unjust accused it of something and I was told that
they knew I didn't do it, but it was something
they had to investigate. They said it to be probably
two weeks, so clear enough. And it went on six months,
me and two other guys I worked with.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
During that time, I kept expecting one of these panic problems,
you know, I kept expecting that this would be too
much because it was a big deal. It was scary,
and police work, you don't make a mistake, and everybody says, okay,
just you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Know, refile that a different way. No, you interesting police
work is send you to prison. So this one was
totally untrue. It hurted as financially as a family. It
cost us tens of thousands of dollars. We had to
empty out of retirement account, we had to get a lawyer.
And just going through that for six months for something
I really had not done allowed me to dry out
(06:54):
to the Lord.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
And I can un the first night going home and
just get down on my knee saying, Jesus, I need you.
There is this scraps you might learn not to rely
on yourself, on God who raised the dead.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
That's where I need to be. And those moments like
that one and several others. There was a time when
there was eight guards help that had goten arrested and
there were some threats going and the chief of police
wanted me to have a bodyguard with me and all
the time, which is ridiculous, over dramatic, but that was
also very stressful. And yet I did the same thing.
(07:30):
I reached out to Jesus. Jesus, I just I need you.
You're the one to save me, You're the one that
can keep me, and so I feel a lot of
solos at his feet. I retired from the police department
and was already a full time pastor, but then when
(07:50):
I retired, I did it without the police farm, so
now it was really full time. The first shove I
did at our church was as the outreach pastor, and
so I wanted to be effected. I love the picture
of being a patrolman and receiving these emergency Christs situations
and then going and only being able to provide like
a physical stop to it, or like a movement of
(08:13):
the of the bodies. But in this what we set
up was a ministry. We call it boost others. The
idea is a social worker tells us the one that's
in need, somebody in crisis, that comes into let's say,
our dispatcher comes into our office, and then it gets
dispatched out to our team that are like let's call
(08:33):
them patrol chaplins, and these chaplines on patrol respond immediately
as fast as they can, depending on our workload that day,
to go help people in crisis. So we have those
with abuse cases, and then we work a lot of
kids with very sick with cancer and nik you a
lot of little ones. And as we work with those children,
(08:53):
were able to provide things that just the hospital can't.
We've bought she tobes, like for little girl seven years old,
homeless with liver cancer. You know, she's been in the
money at home to take care of the process between
hospital visits. We've been able to help in a lot
of unique ways. In every crisis we go to, we
(09:14):
do our very best to offer to pray for the
family and crisis in ninety nine point nine percent absolutely
want that, and then we do our very best to
encourage them and to introduce them to the Jesus of
the Bible. Maybe not the Jesus stated seen on TV,
or the Jesus they may have proceved, but to present
(09:37):
to them the whole Council of God, the understanding that
Jesus came and showed his love by paying for sin.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
To learn more about Dale Sutherland, visit Boostothers dot org
or The Undercover Pastor dot com. Stay tuned to Haley
Scully story after a brief message. Teens today more pressure
than ever. If you're looking for a way to bring calm,
(10:09):
clarity and faith into their everyday lives, the new Teen
addition of Jesus Calling is here to help. This well
loved teen Edition has been refreshed with a brand new,
modern cover, making it even more inviting for today's teens.
Jesus Calling for Teens is a three hundred and sixty
five day devotional and cuts through the noise of an
(10:29):
overwhelming world. Each short entry offers peace when anxiety creeps
in and comfort when they feel alone. Every day brings
them grounding scripture, gentle biblical guidance, and a moment to
pause and connect with Jesus in a meaningful way. The
teen Edition is perfect for building morning quiet time, youth groups,
small groups, or simply building a steady daily rhythm with
(10:51):
God and with Jesus Calling. Available for adults and kids,
families can grow together and share the journey. If a
teen in your life is looking for direction, reassurance, or
a deeper relationship with Jesus, this devotional gives them daily
reminders that they're seeing loved and never alone. Find the
Teen edition of Jesus Calling wherever books are sold. Our
(11:19):
next guest is Hailey Scully, who serves with Hope for
the Heart, a counseling ministry equipping Christian leaders to care
for others. With a background in counseling, Halley has traveled
to more than thirty countries training leaders to bring Biblical
hope to hurting hearts.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But her own.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Journey of faith hasn't looked the way she expected, and
it was in that season of uncertainty a new story
quietly began to emerge.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
I am Hailey Scully and I work with a ministry
called Hope for the Heart. I've been here for almost
fifteen years. It is a Christian counseling ministry. We help
equip people for counseling and Christian coaching, just really equipping
the Body of Christ to be able to counsel mentor
encourage care for one another. My calling and ministry, I
(12:05):
would say, is counseling and that's my education and my training,
and I've just had opportunity to be here and helped
do that with our international partners and then just creating
training here in the US and what can be used
globally to prepare the church to care for the emotional
and spiritual needs of others. I grew up in church
(12:30):
in a family that on Sundays we were at church
and just a part of our lives praising the Lord
and loving him. It was a part of our lives,
but I would say we kind of didn't really know
necessarily how to follow God in our everyday lives. It
was part of our culture, it was part of our experience.
Definitely accepted Christ as my savior when I was a
(12:51):
little girl, and loved him and meant it, went to
church camp, all of those things, but just kind of
when I got through high school and started off on
my own path. You know, I had told the Lord
that I always wanted to to serve him and follow
him in my life. Felt a calling to ministry at
one point when I was younger, but then just kind
(13:13):
of started off on my own path in a lot
of ways. Got a job and started working, and there
came a point in my mid to late twenties that
I was like, Okay, wait a second, I just expected
to grow up, get married, have kids.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And have kind of what I expected was this blessed life.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
As I started getting older, I wasn't really in church,
I wasn't really seeking him. I think I just expected
those things to happen, and I started asking questions and
I started getting disappointed and discouraged and thinking God.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Where are you? And what are you doing?
Speaker 6 (13:46):
And around in those years, also kind of a really
hard thing happened in my family when my oldest niece
was diagnosed with leukemia and when.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
She got sick.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
I say, the first one that really fell to their
knees that just seeking God in all things was my mom.
And my mom kind of carried us in faith through
that illness. But it was kind of one of those
first things in our family that we couldn't solve. We
couldn't fix it, we couldn't heal her. It was definitely
(14:21):
outside of our capacity. And I think that was kind
of a oh Gosh, where is God? Who is he really?
What can we really depend on him in? And it
really started to change a lot of our lives and
a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Of our faith walks.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
I was frustrated and a little bit disappointed, and God
just began to peel away layers and layers of expectations
and hurts and was.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Kind of like, are you ready to go all in
with me?
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Like this is what we started years ago, and are
you ready to do what I've called you to? And
at that point I said yes, I changed course, and
Praise the Lord, She's in our early thirties now, and
you know, successfully navigated that and we are so grateful.
(15:14):
Through my thirties, as I started working for him, working
here at Hope for the Heart, there were really about
seven or eight years in my late thirties and early
forties where I was overseas a lot, doing training a lot,
and still all the paths that He was leading me to.
I wasn't meeting somebody, I didn't get married, and I
(15:34):
wasn't having kids. So that time of trying to understand
the goodness of God and his calling in spite of
some of the biggest disappointment and hurt in my life,
that was certainly a time that I felt. I didn't
feel uncertain of him, but I was feeling afraid and
(15:58):
definitely stretched, and I had to really go to him
with the Okay, if I delight myself and you're supposed
to give me the desires of my heart, you've said
two are better than one. I had to search through
his word with him and really dig in to believe
that he is good in spite of those disappointments.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And the wonderful.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Thing was as I hit forty and as I got
kind of there had been many years where I was like,
if by the time I'm not forty, I don't have kids.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It was such a fear.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
And then I got to forty and I was like,
I see you working on my life so specifically, I
believe so much that you've called me where I am.
I have no doubt that you have set me on
this path and these opportunities you've opened up for me,
and even doing the work overseas.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I just I believe that this is you.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
And so if you have called me to this and
you know that these things are kind of taken me
out of a position of being married right now or
having kids, then I'm going to trust you with it.
I'm going to trust you that your plan is good
and that you are good, and it's not that you
have forgotten me. It's not that you have left me
(17:16):
behind or just disregarded my heart to have kids, but
that you have entrusted me with this plan. You have
entrusted me to still believe that you are good and
still proclaim your goodness and still love you in spite
of some of this hurt that I am experiencing. And
(17:37):
so I'm incredibly grateful for how intentional he has been
with me, even through the disappointments in my life. Because
I don't have any regrets and I don't have any doubts.
I do have disappointments, I do have grief in the past,
but I also have joy and great confidence, and I'm
(18:00):
very grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
He's been good. There have been a lot of times
that I was mad or heard or like what are
you doing and where are you? And he's just been
so patient and good.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
It's always been I think, who God created me to be.
Looking back over my years and my giftings and the
different things that maybe I was good at through elementary
and junior high in high school, it's always kind of
been there, but it was certainly unrefined. It certainly wasn't
necessarily a gifting that I was giving to the Lord,
(18:34):
and in my late twenties when I really turned back
to him and I said, was telling him I really
wanted to live my life for him, and I said,
I will go through every door and.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Window that you open. Lord.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
And I have always loved helping people through those times.
I think getting it refined by God through the Master's
program and through my early work in counseling. It really
just was mostly relieving me of the pressure. I'm not
the healer. I'm not the fixer find I try to
tell people kind of you need to do this, and
(19:08):
you've got to do that, and cultural expectations and giving
more advice.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
But when we allow God.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
To use the gifts that He's given us, and we
allow him to shape that, it takes all the pressure.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
That's when the burden is light. When the yoke is
on the Lord, I just get.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
To help lead people to his word. I just get
to know that He is the healer, he is the fixer.
I've traveled to about thirty seven different countries, trained in
many of them and experiencing that the hurts of people,
(19:49):
I like to say, whether they're in a hut or
a high rise. Rather we are in a village in
Africa or we're in a high rise in Hong Kong.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It does not matter where we are.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
The struggles of the human heart are the same, which
holds true for why scripture is the solution for everywhere.
It is anger, it's hurt, its unforgiveness, it's fear, it's depression,
the challenges that people face no matter where they are.
The circumstances are going to be different, but the emotions
(20:22):
and a lot of the facts of it are the same.
We want to help people, we want to help hearts,
but helping those who are trying to help others, helping
them carry that load, helping them have the tools and
the equipping to fulfill the ministry, because in the ministry
of counseling, if you don't have some of those tools,
(20:44):
the pressure can become overwhelming because you're hearing all the
hurts and all the struggles of so many people. I
kind of say it can be like putting on everybody's overcoat.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
If you just put everybody's overcoat on you, over and
over and over all.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
The people that are bringing their hurts to you, well,
you will get weighed down, You will get overburdened in
that calling, so equipping pastors, equipping church leaders, equipping parents,
equipping friends. I was in Istanbul doing a training and
a pastor of a local church was the translator for
the training, and in between our sessions, at one point
(21:23):
he just wrote down in tears and he said, you
have to come to church on Sunday and share this
perspective and this content with some of our leaders, because
he said, everybody in the church wants to come directly
to me. Everybody wants to come to me and share
their hurts. And he said it's gotten to the point
where I just even dread when I see my own
(21:44):
sheep coming toward me, because he was trying to shepherd them,
preach to them, teach them, and lead them, but they
needed somebody to hear their hearts and it was just
too much for him. So helping him equip leaders that
are called to care within his congregation was really important
(22:05):
to him and something that I was really thankful that
we were able to do to expose them so he
could feel confident that they were giving biblical advice, that
they were giving biblical counsel and not just telling people
to manage things based on their own experiences or their
own cultural backgrounds, but that his teams were ready to
(22:26):
bring God's word into the conversation and help people seek
God for their solutions. That is something that keeps me
going in this ministry. That's something that keeps me willing
to get on the next flight or to have the
next event that we're holding. We know that people are
carrying quite a load as they try to care for others,
(22:48):
and we want to help them be the most prepared
to do that so they can still have joy in
their calling, joy in their ministry, that they truly can
trust in God to be the one to manage these
things and just really be a vessel of help and hope.
So I would say we want to help every hurting heart,
but specifically those leaders and those people that are trying
(23:11):
to care for others. I want to be in the
Word of God every morning. I want that to shape me.
I want that to impact that internal dialogue that I
have every morning. Just finding either a book that I'm
reading through along with whatever passage and scripture that I'm
(23:31):
going through at the time. It has to shape me
because when I don't do that, I am very susceptible
to being kind of taken off course by whatever the
worry or the concern or the situation is that I'm facing.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So I'm really grateful for that grounding.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I do remember the first time that I was exposed
to Jesus Calling. It's been a part of my life
over the years. Many times I will go back through
Jesus Calling. But the first time that we got it,
a relative send it to my parents, I believe with
my dad was diagnosed with multiple maloma, and again it
was one of the scariest times in our life, and
(24:12):
so we loved the Lord and go through his.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Word and go through scripture.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
But when you're so scared and so tired, and my
dad was so sick, Jesus Calling was one of those
things that we could do together, even as we were
in the hospital with him. In the mornings, he and
my mom would do that, going through that together, just
being reminded of God's presence, being reminded of his voice
(24:40):
in our life, being reminded.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That in his word. Just starting with that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
There were a few passages in Jesus Calling. In particular,
there was one it was talking about the golden threads,
seeing the golden thread of God working in our life,
and there were just moments that that was really all
we could lean into or had the power to lean into.
But it kept us at the foot, it kept us
(25:05):
with Jesus, and it was very important to us. I
just think it's such a good way for people to
connect in with and begin to practice leaning into the
Lord every day. So I've personally loved it, and I
think just spending time with Jesus every morning is one
of the great sustaining forces in my life. Jesus listens
(25:32):
March thirtieth, My loving Savior, Your unfailing love is my
comfort because I live in such a broken world, trouble
is never far away. Although there are many sources of
comfort available to me, only one of them is unfailing
your love. Other sources may help me some of the time,
(25:55):
but your consoling presence is with me all of the time.
The perfect, inexhaustible love you provide is not just a
thing that makes me feel less upset.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
It's also a person.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Your love is inseparable from you, so nothing in all
creation can separate me from your loving presence. Help me
to remember who I am, your cherished follower. I can
come to you for comfort as often as I need,
Since you are a boundless source of blessing to me.
I want to be a blessing in the lives of
(26:29):
other people, comforting those in any trouble with the comfort
I have received from you in your comforting.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Name, Jesus Amen.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
To learn more about Hailey Scully, visit Hopefotheheart dot org
and be sure to check out Hope for the Heart's
new book, The Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference
guide of Biblical answers for one hundred real life issues
at your favorite retailer. If you'd like to hear more
stories about Hope and healing, check out our interview with
Clarissa and Fiona Mole. Next time on the Jesus Lille Podcasts,
(27:06):
we'll hear from Chris Blair, the founder of The Listening
Room and Cafe, a premier venue for hit songwriters. Chris
shares his early aspirations to be an artist himself and
how it came to create a place for a community
of songwriters to feel like they belonged.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
The early dream of what I wanted people to experience
when they walked into the doors of the Listening Room
for the first time is that they just felt like
they belonged. And they could walk out feeling like they
were connected to the stories behind the songs in a
way that they had never heard and couldn't wait to
come back.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith
podcast on the Live Audio Network. Every week, we'll bring
you stories from people who share their journeys of faith
and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives.
Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or
wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review.
(28:05):
Others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally,
you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus
Calling website at Jesuscalling dot com.
Life audio. Find inspiration as close as your phone. Download
the Jesus Calling app and get started today for free.
Look for the Jesus Calling app in both the Apple
and Google Play stores.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Been shot at, ben robbed, been threatened a lot of times,
with some pretty bad people planning to kill me, But
oh my God, stray some here.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome to the Jesus Calling Podcast. This week, we hear
from retired Washington d C. Police sergeant and pastor Dhill Sutherland,
who shares how his faith carried him through dangerous undercover work,
false accusations, and ultimately inspired him to launch a ministry
that brings hope to families and crisis. Later in the episode,
we'll hear from Hailey Scully, who has spent nearly fifteen
(00:56):
years with Hope for the Heart, a ministry equipping people
to offer compassionate care within their communities. Through her own
journey of navigating disappointment and renewal, gained a deep understanding
of the struggles other space and a passion to equip
them with confidence and hope. Let's begin with Dale's story.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
My name is Dale Sutherland. I am a retired DC
Police sergeant. I worked in narcotics most of my career.
I was there almost twenty six years, and then it's
been three years in another police farm before that, So
about twenty nine years of law enforcement. I went to
Bible College and I now when I retired, and even
(01:42):
during the last four years my police career, I did both.
I was a pastor and an undercoment police officer at
the same time. And also I have three daughters and
thirty grandchildren and two more on the way. Right start
of high school is when Chrysler we got a hold
of me and I found out that it was actually
(02:03):
it was better way to live was with jess is
the center of my life. Not a boring, get yelled
at in church type of walk with the Lord, but
a real walk with the Lord. Jesus requires everything but
also gives everything. I've never had clarity for the Lord,
like you know you have to go do this thing
or that thing. I just knew I was supposed to
(02:23):
do the things he told me to do. I think
if Thesis two ten, for we are His workmanship created
in Christ Jesus to do certain good works. I've always
had a passion to show the Gospel and to teach
the Bible. Even I could numbered sixteen meet my first
sermon and a mission, and I always want to teach
a Bible. I always wanted to get the Gospel out
and see people become Christians. That would be the best
(02:45):
thing I could ever give anybody, is to introduce them
to the Savior, the whole world, the Creator, and also
the one who gave his life for people. So anyway,
that was my clear conviction. I didn't know how I
was supposed to do it, but that was the plan. Eventually,
I want to be a pastor and wanted to work
(03:05):
with Irvin Kits And that's what led.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Me to Washington, d c.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And to the Police de Farm. It was dangerous sometimes
as a police officer. At the beginning of my career
was the moost dangerous. I started on the police farm
right in the middle of what we would refer to
as the Crack Wars, because across the United States, every
city in the country was maybe five times their normal
murder rate all of a sudden, and that ran all
(03:31):
the way to almost nineteen five and I came in
right then, so things were happening. I mean, people were
getting shot. I remember when I got promoted sergeant in
nineteen ninety three went back to uniform for a while,
and I can remember one midnight shift there was five
shootings going on just in my district, just with that
a few blocks of each other, five victims, and my
(03:52):
job was to go to each location and try to
determine if I was going to live or not, because
we had to pick which detectives should be sent, homicide
or our disrect detective. It wasn't dense, yes, but the
great thing is knowing Jesus, the Lord went with me
on all those calls, and when I got ready to
do an undercover I prayed. I asked the Lord for help,
And I really think any success I've perceived or been
(04:15):
blessed with has truly been a result of the Lord's
work and answering all those prayers. Been shot at and
robbed and threatened a lot of times with some pretty
bad people planning to kill me. But if I got stray,
so I'm here, and I really felt confident in that world.
As the Lord envy serving there, I saw a lot
(04:37):
of dark things. I can remember being inundated with violence, gunshots,
blood on various points in my career and easily becoming
more and more generous, like more and more where there's
something they talk about with police, doctors and nurses, soldier servement.
(04:57):
You see a lot of bad things happen to people.
I say, the Lord gives you a certain resistance to,
you know, collapsing or falling apart or making it your own.
Lord helped me with that a tremendous amount so that
(05:18):
I could do my job but not let my own
worries or feelings about what might happen or has happened,
almost like a like an on and off switch you
could turn on and off, but with the Lord with
he's on on all the time, of course, but I
just mean the way I wouldn't worry in a lot
of circumstances. Now. The one exception to them with children,
if there was a child involved, going on search horns,
(05:40):
knocking down doors, searching place where they sell drugs and
digging through everything. Over there you see in the corner
a child that is crying and is going to end
up foster caring. So that step bothered me a little
bit more. In my Fleas career, one end double a
lot of stress and anxieties. At one point I was
(06:01):
unjust accused it of something and I was told that
they knew I didn't do it, but it was something
they had to investigate. They said it to be probably
two weeks, so clear enough. And it went on six months,
me and two other guys I worked with.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
During that time, I kept expecting one of these panic problems,
you know, I kept expecting that this would be too
much because it was a big deal. It was scary,
and police work, you don't make a mistake, and everybody says, okay,
just you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Know, refile that a different way. No, you interesting police
work is send you to prison. So this one was
totally untrue. It hurted as financially as a family. It
cost us tens of thousands of dollars. We had to
empty out of retirement account, we had to get a lawyer.
And just going through that for six months for something
I really had not done allowed me to dry out
(06:54):
to the Lord.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
And I can un the first night going home and
just get down on my knee saying, Jesus, I need you.
There is this scraps you might learn not to rely
on yourself, on God who raised the dead.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
That's where I need to be. And those moments like
that one and several others. There was a time when
there was eight guards help that had goten arrested and
there were some threats going and the chief of police
wanted me to have a bodyguard with me and all
the time, which is ridiculous, over dramatic, but that was
also very stressful. And yet I did the same thing.
(07:30):
I reached out to Jesus. Jesus, I just I need you.
You're the one to save me, You're the one that
can keep me, and so I feel a lot of
solos at his feet. I retired from the police department
and was already a full time pastor, but then when
(07:50):
I retired, I did it without the police farm, so
now it was really full time. The first shove I
did at our church was as the outreach pastor, and
so I wanted to be effected. I love the picture
of being a patrolman and receiving these emergency Christs situations
and then going and only being able to provide like
a physical stop to it, or like a movement of
(08:13):
the of the bodies. But in this what we set
up was a ministry. We call it boost others. The
idea is a social worker tells us the one that's
in need, somebody in crisis, that comes into let's say,
our dispatcher comes into our office, and then it gets
dispatched out to our team that are like let's call
(08:33):
them patrol chaplins, and these chaplines on patrol respond immediately
as fast as they can, depending on our workload that day,
to go help people in crisis. So we have those
with abuse cases, and then we work a lot of
kids with very sick with cancer and nik you a
lot of little ones. And as we work with those children,
(08:53):
were able to provide things that just the hospital can't.
We've bought she tobes, like for little girl seven years old,
homeless with liver cancer. You know, she's been in the
money at home to take care of the process between
hospital visits. We've been able to help in a lot
of unique ways. In every crisis we go to, we
(09:14):
do our very best to offer to pray for the
family and crisis in ninety nine point nine percent absolutely
want that, and then we do our very best to
encourage them and to introduce them to the Jesus of
the Bible. Maybe not the Jesus stated seen on TV,
or the Jesus they may have proceved, but to present
(09:37):
to them the whole Council of God, the understanding that
Jesus came and showed his love by paying for sin.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
To learn more about Dale Sutherland, visit Boostothers dot org
or The Undercover Pastor dot com. Stay tuned to Haley
Scully story after a brief message. Teens today more pressure
than ever. If you're looking for a way to bring calm,
(10:09):
clarity and faith into their everyday lives, the new Teen
addition of Jesus Calling is here to help. This well
loved teen Edition has been refreshed with a brand new,
modern cover, making it even more inviting for today's teens.
Jesus Calling for Teens is a three hundred and sixty
five day devotional and cuts through the noise of an
(10:29):
overwhelming world. Each short entry offers peace when anxiety creeps
in and comfort when they feel alone. Every day brings
them grounding scripture, gentle biblical guidance, and a moment to
pause and connect with Jesus in a meaningful way. The
teen Edition is perfect for building morning quiet time, youth groups,
small groups, or simply building a steady daily rhythm with
(10:51):
God and with Jesus Calling. Available for adults and kids,
families can grow together and share the journey. If a
teen in your life is looking for direction, reassurance, or
a deeper relationship with Jesus, this devotional gives them daily
reminders that they're seeing loved and never alone. Find the
Teen edition of Jesus Calling wherever books are sold. Our
(11:19):
next guest is Hailey Scully, who serves with Hope for
the Heart, a counseling ministry equipping Christian leaders to care
for others. With a background in counseling, Halley has traveled
to more than thirty countries training leaders to bring Biblical
hope to hurting hearts.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
But her own.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Journey of faith hasn't looked the way she expected, and
it was in that season of uncertainty a new story
quietly began to emerge.
Speaker 6 (11:42):
I am Hailey Scully and I work with a ministry
called Hope for the Heart. I've been here for almost
fifteen years. It is a Christian counseling ministry. We help
equip people for counseling and Christian coaching, just really equipping
the Body of Christ to be able to counsel mentor
encourage care for one another. My calling and ministry, I
(12:05):
would say, is counseling and that's my education and my training,
and I've just had opportunity to be here and helped
do that with our international partners and then just creating
training here in the US and what can be used
globally to prepare the church to care for the emotional
and spiritual needs of others. I grew up in church
(12:30):
in a family that on Sundays we were at church
and just a part of our lives praising the Lord
and loving him. It was a part of our lives,
but I would say we kind of didn't really know
necessarily how to follow God in our everyday lives. It
was part of our culture, it was part of our experience.
Definitely accepted Christ as my savior when I was a
(12:51):
little girl, and loved him and meant it, went to
church camp, all of those things, but just kind of
when I got through high school and started off on
my own path. You know, I had told the Lord
that I always wanted to to serve him and follow
him in my life. Felt a calling to ministry at
one point when I was younger, but then just kind
(13:13):
of started off on my own path in a lot
of ways. Got a job and started working, and there
came a point in my mid to late twenties that
I was like, Okay, wait a second, I just expected
to grow up, get married, have kids.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And have kind of what I expected was this blessed life.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
As I started getting older, I wasn't really in church,
I wasn't really seeking him. I think I just expected
those things to happen, and I started asking questions and
I started getting disappointed and discouraged and thinking God.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Where are you? And what are you doing?
Speaker 6 (13:46):
And around in those years, also kind of a really
hard thing happened in my family when my oldest niece
was diagnosed with leukemia and when.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
She got sick.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
I say, the first one that really fell to their
knees that just seeking God in all things was my mom.
And my mom kind of carried us in faith through
that illness. But it was kind of one of those
first things in our family that we couldn't solve. We
couldn't fix it, we couldn't heal her. It was definitely
(14:21):
outside of our capacity. And I think that was kind
of a oh Gosh, where is God? Who is he really?
What can we really depend on him in? And it
really started to change a lot of our lives and
a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Of our faith walks.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
I was frustrated and a little bit disappointed, and God
just began to peel away layers and layers of expectations
and hurts and was.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Kind of like, are you ready to go all in
with me?
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Like this is what we started years ago, and are
you ready to do what I've called you to? And
at that point I said yes, I changed course, and
Praise the Lord, She's in our early thirties now, and
you know, successfully navigated that and we are so grateful.
(15:14):
Through my thirties, as I started working for him, working
here at Hope for the Heart, there were really about
seven or eight years in my late thirties and early
forties where I was overseas a lot, doing training a lot,
and still all the paths that He was leading me to.
I wasn't meeting somebody, I didn't get married, and I
(15:34):
wasn't having kids. So that time of trying to understand
the goodness of God and his calling in spite of
some of the biggest disappointment and hurt in my life,
that was certainly a time that I felt. I didn't
feel uncertain of him, but I was feeling afraid and
(15:58):
definitely stretched, and I had to really go to him
with the Okay, if I delight myself and you're supposed
to give me the desires of my heart, you've said
two are better than one. I had to search through
his word with him and really dig in to believe
that he is good in spite of those disappointments.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And the wonderful.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Thing was as I hit forty and as I got
kind of there had been many years where I was like,
if by the time I'm not forty, I don't have kids.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It was such a fear.
Speaker 6 (16:32):
And then I got to forty and I was like,
I see you working on my life so specifically, I
believe so much that you've called me where I am.
I have no doubt that you have set me on
this path and these opportunities you've opened up for me,
and even doing the work overseas.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I just I believe that this is you.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
And so if you have called me to this and
you know that these things are kind of taken me
out of a position of being married right now or
having kids, then I'm going to trust you with it.
I'm going to trust you that your plan is good
and that you are good, and it's not that you
have forgotten me. It's not that you have left me
(17:16):
behind or just disregarded my heart to have kids, but
that you have entrusted me with this plan. You have
entrusted me to still believe that you are good and
still proclaim your goodness and still love you in spite
of some of this hurt that I am experiencing. And
(17:37):
so I'm incredibly grateful for how intentional he has been
with me, even through the disappointments in my life. Because
I don't have any regrets and I don't have any doubts.
I do have disappointments, I do have grief in the past,
but I also have joy and great confidence, and I'm
(18:00):
very grateful for that.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
He's been good. There have been a lot of times
that I was mad or heard or like what are
you doing and where are you? And he's just been
so patient and good.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
It's always been I think, who God created me to be.
Looking back over my years and my giftings and the
different things that maybe I was good at through elementary
and junior high in high school, it's always kind of
been there, but it was certainly unrefined. It certainly wasn't
necessarily a gifting that I was giving to the Lord,
(18:34):
and in my late twenties when I really turned back
to him and I said, was telling him I really
wanted to live my life for him, and I said,
I will go through every door and.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Window that you open. Lord.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
And I have always loved helping people through those times.
I think getting it refined by God through the Master's
program and through my early work in counseling. It really
just was mostly relieving me of the pressure. I'm not
the healer. I'm not the fixer find I try to
tell people kind of you need to do this, and
(19:08):
you've got to do that, and cultural expectations and giving
more advice.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
But when we allow God.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
To use the gifts that He's given us, and we
allow him to shape that, it takes all the pressure.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
That's when the burden is light. When the yoke is
on the Lord, I just get.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
To help lead people to his word. I just get
to know that He is the healer, he is the fixer.
I've traveled to about thirty seven different countries, trained in
many of them and experiencing that the hurts of people,
(19:49):
I like to say, whether they're in a hut or
a high rise. Rather we are in a village in
Africa or we're in a high rise in Hong Kong.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It does not matter where we are.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
The struggles of the human heart are the same, which
holds true for why scripture is the solution for everywhere.
It is anger, it's hurt, its unforgiveness, it's fear, it's depression,
the challenges that people face no matter where they are.
The circumstances are going to be different, but the emotions
(20:22):
and a lot of the facts of it are the same.
We want to help people, we want to help hearts,
but helping those who are trying to help others, helping
them carry that load, helping them have the tools and
the equipping to fulfill the ministry, because in the ministry
of counseling, if you don't have some of those tools,
(20:44):
the pressure can become overwhelming because you're hearing all the
hurts and all the struggles of so many people. I
kind of say it can be like putting on everybody's overcoat.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
If you just put everybody's overcoat on you, over and
over and over all.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
The people that are bringing their hurts to you, well,
you will get weighed down, You will get overburdened in
that calling, so equipping pastors, equipping church leaders, equipping parents,
equipping friends. I was in Istanbul doing a training and
a pastor of a local church was the translator for
the training, and in between our sessions, at one point
(21:23):
he just wrote down in tears and he said, you
have to come to church on Sunday and share this
perspective and this content with some of our leaders, because
he said, everybody in the church wants to come directly
to me. Everybody wants to come to me and share
their hurts. And he said it's gotten to the point
where I just even dread when I see my own
(21:44):
sheep coming toward me, because he was trying to shepherd them,
preach to them, teach them, and lead them, but they
needed somebody to hear their hearts and it was just
too much for him. So helping him equip leaders that
are called to care within his congregation was really important
(22:05):
to him and something that I was really thankful that
we were able to do to expose them so he
could feel confident that they were giving biblical advice, that
they were giving biblical counsel and not just telling people
to manage things based on their own experiences or their
own cultural backgrounds, but that his teams were ready to
(22:26):
bring God's word into the conversation and help people seek
God for their solutions. That is something that keeps me
going in this ministry. That's something that keeps me willing
to get on the next flight or to have the
next event that we're holding. We know that people are
carrying quite a load as they try to care for others,
(22:48):
and we want to help them be the most prepared
to do that so they can still have joy in
their calling, joy in their ministry, that they truly can
trust in God to be the one to manage these
things and just really be a vessel of help and hope.
So I would say we want to help every hurting heart,
but specifically those leaders and those people that are trying
(23:11):
to care for others. I want to be in the
Word of God every morning. I want that to shape me.
I want that to impact that internal dialogue that I
have every morning. Just finding either a book that I'm
reading through along with whatever passage and scripture that I'm
(23:31):
going through at the time. It has to shape me
because when I don't do that, I am very susceptible
to being kind of taken off course by whatever the
worry or the concern or the situation is that I'm facing.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So I'm really grateful for that grounding.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
I do remember the first time that I was exposed
to Jesus Calling. It's been a part of my life
over the years. Many times I will go back through
Jesus Calling. But the first time that we got it,
a relative send it to my parents, I believe with
my dad was diagnosed with multiple maloma, and again it
was one of the scariest times in our life, and
(24:12):
so we loved the Lord and go through his.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Word and go through scripture.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
But when you're so scared and so tired, and my
dad was so sick, Jesus Calling was one of those
things that we could do together, even as we were
in the hospital with him. In the mornings, he and
my mom would do that, going through that together, just
being reminded of God's presence, being reminded of his voice
(24:40):
in our life, being reminded.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That in his word. Just starting with that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
There were a few passages in Jesus Calling. In particular,
there was one it was talking about the golden threads,
seeing the golden thread of God working in our life,
and there were just moments that that was really all
we could lean into or had the power to lean into.
But it kept us at the foot, it kept us
(25:05):
with Jesus, and it was very important to us. I
just think it's such a good way for people to
connect in with and begin to practice leaning into the
Lord every day. So I've personally loved it, and I
think just spending time with Jesus every morning is one
of the great sustaining forces in my life. Jesus listens
(25:32):
March thirtieth, My loving Savior, Your unfailing love is my
comfort because I live in such a broken world, trouble
is never far away. Although there are many sources of
comfort available to me, only one of them is unfailing
your love. Other sources may help me some of the time,
(25:55):
but your consoling presence is with me all of the time.
The perfect, inexhaustible love you provide is not just a
thing that makes me feel less upset.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
It's also a person.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Your love is inseparable from you, so nothing in all
creation can separate me from your loving presence. Help me
to remember who I am, your cherished follower. I can
come to you for comfort as often as I need,
Since you are a boundless source of blessing to me.
I want to be a blessing in the lives of
(26:29):
other people, comforting those in any trouble with the comfort
I have received from you in your comforting.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Name, Jesus Amen.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
To learn more about Hailey Scully, visit Hopefotheheart dot org
and be sure to check out Hope for the Heart's
new book, The Care and Counsel Handbook, a quick reference
guide of Biblical answers for one hundred real life issues
at your favorite retailer. If you'd like to hear more
stories about Hope and healing, check out our interview with
Clarissa and Fiona Mole. Next time on the Jesus Lille Podcasts,
(27:06):
we'll hear from Chris Blair, the founder of The Listening
Room and Cafe, a premier venue for hit songwriters. Chris
shares his early aspirations to be an artist himself and
how it came to create a place for a community
of songwriters to feel like they belonged.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
The early dream of what I wanted people to experience
when they walked into the doors of the Listening Room
for the first time is that they just felt like
they belonged. And they could walk out feeling like they
were connected to the stories behind the songs in a
way that they had never heard and couldn't wait to
come back.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Thanks for listening to the Jesus Calling Stories of Faith
podcast on the Live Audio Network. Every week, we'll bring
you stories from people who share their journeys of faith
and how prayer and a relationship with God transformed their lives.
Be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or
wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review.
(28:05):
Others can be inspired weekly by these stories of faith. Finally,
you can find encouragement resources and more on the Jesus
Calling website at Jesuscalling dot com.
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