What if the struggles in your marriage aren’t just about today, but about untold stories from long ago? In this episode of “Jesus Listens,” Dr. Dan Allender and Dr. Steve Call explore how past wounds, unspoken patterns, and even everyday tones of contempt shape our relationships more than we realize. The themes discussed are found in their new book “The Deep-Rooted Marriage.”
Guest’s Links
YouTube: @AllenderCenter
Facebook: @allendercenter
Instagram: @reconnectmarriage | @allendercenter
Watch this interview on our YouTube channel! https://bit.ly/4pqVSZ4
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Download the Jesus Calling app and get started today for free.
Look for the Jesus Calling app both the Apple and
Google Play stores.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hey everybody, I'm Susie McIntyre. Eaton for Jesus Listen stories
of prayer. We've got doctor Dan Allender and doctor Steve Call.
They have written a book called The Deep Rooted Marriage.
So we're going to talk to you about how you
can relate and how you can get down into those
deep roots and find out how you truly do relate
(00:50):
and how you are relating is causing maybe some conflict
in your marriage. So stay tuned. We're going to join
them right now and you're going to enjoy this. Doctor
Allender and doctor Call. It so good to have you
on Jesus List. Since today, even though Mark and I
have been married for fifteen years, we've reaped an abundance
(01:11):
of knowledge from you guys. From your point of view,
Doctor Cale, what do you think the main problem is
in marriage today between couples and do you think it
has changed in the last ten fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I would say over the last five to ten years. Actually,
what is more hopeful is that couples are a bit
more open if you will, or intentional about receiving input,
meaning they're seeking guidance, maybe they're seeking podcasts, maybe they're
seeking resources. It has become much less of a taboo,
I think culturally for couples to say, hey, we're struggling
(01:49):
a little bit, maybe we could use some help. Maybe
we could seek some help, maybe with that's with a
friend or a colleague, or a trusted family member or
maybe a therapist. That to me, I think is what
I've become more aware of, is there's just this openness,
more of an opennest receptivity to the input. The risk
I think for many couples when they engage in that
(02:11):
kind of process is they're asking and inviting themselves to
be aware of what is happening today that is somehow
connected to our past story. And I think that if
we could just sum up in a sentence or two,
where couples maybe get stuck is the lack of awareness
and how the past is part of the present.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I think there is this deep, deep, deep reserve
we all want to in one sense look good. But
the complication is all of us know that things are
a lot harder and struggles far more deeper than we
often have the freedom to be able to name. So
the other side to what Steve saying is we're more
(02:54):
open because we're actually more traumatized. On the other hand,
the trauma themselves oftentimes gets written off in Christian communities.
We should be trusting God, we should be believing in
the Word of God, and if we did that, we
wouldn't be struggling. That is just the absolute furthest from
(03:16):
the truth. The more we actually engage the Word of God,
the more we ought to be able to see some
of the realities that are playing out in our marriages.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
We both bring into a marriage relationship baggage and triggers
into that relationship that come with us that we might
not even be aware of, and creating awareness for those
things is probably the hardest task there is.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
At least had asked on the phone. She asked me
about a particular event that occurred two days ago, and
I told her what my experience of the event was,
and her response wasn't what I helped for. I'll just
say that I didn't respond well. I had an unkind tone.
I said something like that wasn't very nice of you,
(04:08):
or that wasn't what I hoped for. I was abrupt
and it was harsh, and Lisa then asked the question
that I think we all long to hear, and she
asked the question what happened? Like what happened for you?
What was going on for you? And it was one
of the most kind, curious questions that she asked. And
I think that we can ever ask our spouse when
they're triggered having a reaction something doesn't necessarily match the situation.
(04:32):
Can there be a posture of curiosity to say, wait,
we don't have to be as loyal to those patterns
that we might have been in the past.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, that question, it really is comparable to God asking
Adam and Nive where are you? Where are you? And
the question of what's the tone of God in that question?
And I think many of us think it's a tone
of disappointment, anger, judgment versus grief and invitation. And I
(05:02):
think that's one of the categories of curios always has
to be combined with kindness. You know what we wrestle
with and Steve your language of harsh. I think the
reality of what research is indicated is the number one
killer of intimacy and marriage is contempt. And whether you
(05:24):
think of a harsh tone as being contemptuous. It is judgment.
It's a way of making the other person pay, and
that's happening in most marriages every day. If we can
disrupt that, at least name it and actually open the
door too. What's going on? I know you don't hate me.
(05:45):
I know you are in one of ways don't want
to hurt me, but there really is harm. Can we
have the courage to name it together and understand how
it's come back to the deep rooted notion? What are
the roots of your contempt and how is it playing
out in your marriage? If that gets disrupted, major good
(06:08):
can happen.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So how do you think and how could we help
people to get past these past hurts.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Owning and naming literally begins to change your neuronce it
changes your brain slowly. So we need to engage the stories.
And that's one of the questions about a good marriage.
Do we own and share stories or do we have
(06:40):
a mood of already know you grew up with an
angry father. Yeah, I don't need to hear anymore. Now
we need to hear the stories because what research has
indicated is that when we tell the story in the
presence of a compassionate witness, our brains literally change.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I can't believe our time is come by so fast
on this first episode. We've got another episode coming up,
so be sure and tune in for the part two. Okay,
thank you guys for being with us. I'd like to
close the time with us today with the reading from Jesus. Listens.
(07:25):
Sarah Young did a wonderful job with this book, and
I absolutely loved her writing and what she did. It's
February tenth. Precious Jesus, your word assures me that in
your presence there is fullness of joy. As I rest
in your presence pondering who you are and all your
(07:47):
power and glory, I rejoice in your eternal commitment to me.
Neither height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation
will be able to separate me from your love. My
relationship with you has been secure ever since I trusted
you as my all sufficient savior. Help me remember that
(08:10):
I am your beloved child. This is my permanent identity.
Please lead me along the way of the path of
life and teach me how to show your love to
others in your cherished name. Amen. Amen, Thank you guys
for being with us.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
So much for joining us today Jesus Listens Stories of Prayer.
I'm Susie McIntyre Eton and i so enjoyed my time
with my husband Mark and Doctor Allander and Doctor Call.
Don't forget there's a second episode coming up, so you
be sure and tune in. Just remember until we see
(08:52):
you again, that Jesus hears you, he cares for you,
and he's just a prayer away. God bless you and
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Be sure to follow us on social media and on
the Jesus Calling podcast on Apple or wherever you get
your podcasts so that you can keep up with our
weekly audio episodes in special monthly series like this one.
And be sure to subscribe to the Jesus Calling channel
on YouTube, where you'll find the video version of this interview.
Thanks for listening.
Life Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Download the Jesus Calling app and get started today for free.
Look for the Jesus Calling app both the Apple and
Google Play stores.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hey everybody, I'm Susie McIntyre. Eaton for Jesus Listen stories
of prayer. We've got doctor Dan Allender and doctor Steve Call.
They have written a book called The Deep Rooted Marriage.
So we're going to talk to you about how you
can relate and how you can get down into those
deep roots and find out how you truly do relate
(00:50):
and how you are relating is causing maybe some conflict
in your marriage. So stay tuned. We're going to join
them right now and you're going to enjoy this. Doctor
Allender and doctor Call. It so good to have you
on Jesus List. Since today, even though Mark and I
have been married for fifteen years, we've reaped an abundance
(01:11):
of knowledge from you guys. From your point of view,
Doctor Cale, what do you think the main problem is
in marriage today between couples and do you think it
has changed in the last ten fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I would say over the last five to ten years. Actually,
what is more hopeful is that couples are a bit
more open if you will, or intentional about receiving input,
meaning they're seeking guidance, maybe they're seeking podcasts, maybe they're
seeking resources. It has become much less of a taboo,
I think culturally for couples to say, hey, we're struggling
(01:49):
a little bit, maybe we could use some help. Maybe
we could seek some help, maybe with that's with a
friend or a colleague, or a trusted family member or
maybe a therapist. That to me, I think is what
I've become more aware of, is there's just this openness,
more of an opennest receptivity to the input. The risk
I think for many couples when they engage in that
(02:11):
kind of process is they're asking and inviting themselves to
be aware of what is happening today that is somehow
connected to our past story. And I think that if
we could just sum up in a sentence or two,
where couples maybe get stuck is the lack of awareness
and how the past is part of the present.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And I think there is this deep, deep, deep reserve
we all want to in one sense look good. But
the complication is all of us know that things are
a lot harder and struggles far more deeper than we
often have the freedom to be able to name. So
the other side to what Steve saying is we're more
(02:54):
open because we're actually more traumatized. On the other hand,
the trauma themselves oftentimes gets written off in Christian communities.
We should be trusting God, we should be believing in
the Word of God, and if we did that, we
wouldn't be struggling. That is just the absolute furthest from
(03:16):
the truth. The more we actually engage the Word of God,
the more we ought to be able to see some
of the realities that are playing out in our marriages.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
We both bring into a marriage relationship baggage and triggers
into that relationship that come with us that we might
not even be aware of, and creating awareness for those
things is probably the hardest task there is.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
At least had asked on the phone. She asked me
about a particular event that occurred two days ago, and
I told her what my experience of the event was,
and her response wasn't what I helped for. I'll just
say that I didn't respond well. I had an unkind tone.
I said something like that wasn't very nice of you,
(04:08):
or that wasn't what I hoped for. I was abrupt
and it was harsh, and Lisa then asked the question
that I think we all long to hear, and she
asked the question what happened? Like what happened for you?
What was going on for you? And it was one
of the most kind, curious questions that she asked. And
I think that we can ever ask our spouse when
they're triggered having a reaction something doesn't necessarily match the situation.
(04:32):
Can there be a posture of curiosity to say, wait,
we don't have to be as loyal to those patterns
that we might have been in the past.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, that question, it really is comparable to God asking
Adam and Nive where are you? Where are you? And
the question of what's the tone of God in that question?
And I think many of us think it's a tone
of disappointment, anger, judgment versus grief and invitation. And I
(05:02):
think that's one of the categories of curios always has
to be combined with kindness. You know what we wrestle
with and Steve your language of harsh. I think the
reality of what research is indicated is the number one
killer of intimacy and marriage is contempt. And whether you
(05:24):
think of a harsh tone as being contemptuous. It is judgment.
It's a way of making the other person pay, and
that's happening in most marriages every day. If we can
disrupt that, at least name it and actually open the
door too. What's going on? I know you don't hate me.
(05:45):
I know you are in one of ways don't want
to hurt me, but there really is harm. Can we
have the courage to name it together and understand how
it's come back to the deep rooted notion? What are
the roots of your contempt and how is it playing
out in your marriage? If that gets disrupted, major good
(06:08):
can happen.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So how do you think and how could we help
people to get past these past hurts.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Owning and naming literally begins to change your neuronce it
changes your brain slowly. So we need to engage the stories.
And that's one of the questions about a good marriage.
Do we own and share stories or do we have
(06:40):
a mood of already know you grew up with an
angry father. Yeah, I don't need to hear anymore. Now
we need to hear the stories because what research has
indicated is that when we tell the story in the
presence of a compassionate witness, our brains literally change.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
Well.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I can't believe our time is come by so fast
on this first episode. We've got another episode coming up,
so be sure and tune in for the part two. Okay,
thank you guys for being with us. I'd like to
close the time with us today with the reading from Jesus. Listens.
(07:25):
Sarah Young did a wonderful job with this book, and
I absolutely loved her writing and what she did. It's
February tenth. Precious Jesus, your word assures me that in
your presence there is fullness of joy. As I rest
in your presence pondering who you are and all your
(07:47):
power and glory, I rejoice in your eternal commitment to me.
Neither height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation
will be able to separate me from your love. My
relationship with you has been secure ever since I trusted
you as my all sufficient savior. Help me remember that
(08:10):
I am your beloved child. This is my permanent identity.
Please lead me along the way of the path of
life and teach me how to show your love to
others in your cherished name. Amen. Amen, Thank you guys
for being with us.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
So much for joining us today Jesus Listens Stories of Prayer.
I'm Susie McIntyre Eton and i so enjoyed my time
with my husband Mark and Doctor Allander and Doctor Call.
Don't forget there's a second episode coming up, so you
be sure and tune in. Just remember until we see
(08:52):
you again, that Jesus hears you, he cares for you,
and he's just a prayer away. God bless you and
we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Be sure to follow us on social media and on
the Jesus Calling podcast on Apple or wherever you get
your podcasts so that you can keep up with our
weekly audio episodes in special monthly series like this one.
And be sure to subscribe to the Jesus Calling channel
on YouTube, where you'll find the video version of this interview.
Thanks for listening.
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