November 25, 2025 • 41 mins
Workplace bullying is more common than many mid-career professionals realize, and its impact on confidence, performance, and career clarity can be long-lasting. In this episode, we unpack a high-profile moment that reopened old workplace wounds for many. When power is misused to silence or diminish someone, it is more than a headline. It is a reminder of what happens in meeting rooms, team conversations, and one-on-one interactions every day.
If you have ever been interrupted, dismissed, or mocked at work, this conversation gives you practical tools to protect your voice without escalating the tension. You will learn how to identify bullying with clarity, respond with confidence, and set boundaries that reinforce your professionalism and value.
This episode is especially relevant for mid-career professionals navigating tough environments, preparing for interviews, pursuing a promotion, or reassessing their long-term fit within an organization.
What You Will Learn
• A clear definition of workplace bullying and the common forms it takes
• How chronic interruptions and minimizing behaviors shape your visibility and credibility
• Why professionalism is not the same as being passive
• A simple three-part script you can use to redirect a difficult conversation
• When to pause a tense exchange and how to reschedule strategically
• How to document bullying using evidence-based language that supports HR conversations
• When and how to escalate using HR, skip-level meetings, or mediation
• What emotionally intelligent leaders do differently under pressure
• Practical boundary-setting tools that work in both professional and family settings
• How clarity and self-awareness strengthen your leadership presence and career direction
Mid-career is a pivotal time. You are expected to lead, influence, and deliver results while navigating complex personalities, organizational politics, and a rapidly shifting job market. Bullying undermines confidence, weakens your reputation, and creates barriers to advancement. Understanding how to protect your voice and self-advocate is a core skill for job searches, promotions, and long-term career satisfaction.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello, my friends.
With just a few days beforeThanksgiving, I thought this
episode was going to be oneabout saying how thankful I am
and sharing with you a few funstories, but then something
happened last week and I simplycannot overlook it.
In this episode, I'm going totalk with you about bullying in
(00:21):
the workplace and how you canprotect your voice and your
dignity no matter who's in theroom.
I hope you will stick around forthis conversation.
We've got a lot to discuss, solet's get started.
(00:50):
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they love
or love the one they have usingmy proven four-step formula.
Now, if you're new to thepodcast or you maybe have never
heard about this, I have a freeemail newsletter community I
send out twice a week thatdiscusses various leadership and
career strategies for mid-careerprofessionals.
(01:13):
It's called the Mid-Career GPSNewsletter, and you can get it
by checking the show notes orvisiting my website at
johnner.com forward slashresources to sign up for this
twice weekly newsletter.
Come on in and let me help youfigure out whatever is next for
you and your career.
So last week there was anincident about leadership.
(01:39):
And this one triggered me in alot of ways.
And I just want to say, I'm notusing the word trigger lightly,
because during my time as amid-career professional, and for
so many of you who aremid-career professionals, you
often face subtle or overtdisrespect.
(02:00):
And when that disrespects comefrom people who are in powerful
positions, you may be uncertainas to how you want to, think to,
or should show up.
So here's the point ofreference.
Last week, aboard Air Force One,there was a gaggle, and the
(02:22):
gaggle is often referred to asthe press corps on board Air
Force One.
And a distinguished journalistfrom Bloomberg News, Catherine
Lucy, proceeded to ask PresidentDonald Trump a question.
Now, as I've watched the videomultiple times, both on the news
and online, the nonverbal aswell as the verbal that comes
(02:49):
from the president of the UnitedStates is very pointed and
directed.
You have probably heard thethree words quiet, quiet piggy.
Now, this podcast is apolitical.
Um, I'm not gonna get intoanything political in nature
(03:11):
about whether you disapprove ofthe administration, approve of
the administration, whateverthat is.
That's not the point here.
This is a conversation aboutleadership.
And I have talked to a lot ofpeople this week where this
particular incident brought up alot of emotion.
(03:31):
So let's unpack this a littlebit.
Okay.
When someone who is in aposition of power looks at
another person and sayssomething like, Quiet piggy,
they are being dismissive,dehumanizing, and their intent
(03:55):
is designed to belittle andsilence them in that moment.
I don't care whether you're thepresident of the United States,
you're CEO of a company, you aresomeone's immediate supervisor.
If you are looked at and pointedat and said, Quiet piggy, we
have to acknowledge that notonly is this unprofessional
(04:17):
behavior, that the intent is toscare, belittle, bully, and
dehumanize.
Aside from making you be silent.
The reason why this incident isso important in this mid-career
conversation is that thismirrors what some or many of you
(04:45):
may have experienced at somepoint in your career or have
recently experienced.
You are interrupted, you aretalked over, you are humiliated
publicly, and you are dismissedbecause someone who is in a
position of power is exercisingtheir authority with the intent
(05:08):
to belittle you.
I want to reiterate again (05:10):
this is not about politics.
This is about leadershipbehavior, modeling
professionalism, andunderstanding what is and what
is not acceptable at work.
Have you ever been bullied bysomeone at work?
(05:32):
For the purpose of thisconversation, I'm going to
define bullying behavior as oneverbal aggression.
It is someone who is insulting,mocking, or humiliating you
publicly.
Two, it is about interrupting ortalking over you.
(05:54):
And it is done in a way for thatperson to assert their
dominance, essentially theirprofessional dominance.
It will look things like bequiet, listen to me, shut up.
And the third reason is aboutdismissing or minimizing your
(06:15):
expertise.
Now, additionally, the bullyingbehavior could be a retaliation
for something you did orsomething you said.
And it could also be aboutpassive aggressive sabotage.
Now, this particularly lookslike when someone is withholding
(06:37):
information from you orexcluding you from meetings in a
sense to diminish you or put youdown in some way, or even punish
you again for something you saidor you did.
The emotional impact of beingbullied at work is tremendous.
It's huge.
(06:59):
The impact of being bullied atwork results in things like
self-doubt, increased impostersyndrome, anxiety, being
hesitant or fearful aboutspeaking up in a meeting,
feeling small or powerless, oreven questioning your value at
(07:20):
work.
If this is happening to you, Iwant to acknowledge you are not
imagining it and you're notbeing oversensitive.
Bullying in any shape or form iswrong.
And in the workplace, it ishighly unprofessional and should
not be tolerated.
(07:42):
But you and I both know thishappens.
I'm not saying it's right.
I will share with you that Ihave had conversations over the
past week with several peoplewho have tried to rationalize
the president's behavior insaying something like that.
And I've had conversations backto simply say, I don't
(08:04):
understand how that can berationalized.
It doesn't make sense to me.
If that was your mother, yourwife, your sister, your aunt,
your daughter, and you heardthat someone said to them,
quiet, Piggy, you'd be okay withthat?
That you think they deserved it?
(08:25):
And as I've read multiplereports and I've heard things
even from the White House presssecretary saying how she was
acting unprofessional to herfellow colleagues and
everything.
Even if that were to be true,and I was not on Air Force One,
so I don't know that to be true,but even if it were, I still
(08:45):
can't find a way to rationalizethat kind of unprofessional
behavior by calling anotherhuman being Piggy.
And as I've thought about this,I have thought, oh my gosh, what
if he called her a differentname?
Would we have a differentreaction?
(09:07):
We can't get into severity orescalation of terms because
we're not going to justifyunprofessional behavior here.
Here's the other thing I wantyou to be aware of.
And to be clear, I'm notmagnifying or catastrophizing
(09:30):
this situation because you and Iboth know there are leaders out
there who are bullies.
You and I know that if you arethe recipient of that bullying
behavior, you do feel small.
You're probably angry as well,but not sure how to handle it.
(09:54):
And more than likely, if you arelistening to this podcast, you
have such a big heart that Iwill say with absolute 100%
certainty that behavior likethis bothers you.
That is not the way you wouldshow up.
It is not the way you wouldhandle a situation.
(10:16):
You are appalled at that kind ofbehavior.
There have been times in mycareer where I have been bullied
by somebody in a superiorposition to me.
They have been dismissive, theyhave been um diminutive.
(10:42):
They have tried to exercisetheir authority in a way to make
me feel bad about speaking up orabout um how I've handled a
situation because it didn'tagree or align with their
particular philosophy.
Now, I am 56 years old.
(11:04):
56-year-old John Nrell wouldhandle things very differently
than 36-year-old John Nerowould.
And I will share with you thatthere was a moment that I was
dealing with a senior executivewithin an organization who lied
and tried to throw me under thebus in front of my direct
(11:25):
superior.
And I stopped the meeting and Ilooked him directly in the eye
and I said, You and I both knowthat is a lie.
Stop doing that.
36-year-old John would not havedone that.
46-year-old John did.
Okay.
But how we choose to show up andhandle those situations are
(11:49):
honestly a quick evaluationabout risk and reward in the
moment.
I have seen things online aboutsaying, you know, did did
anybody in the press gagglespeak up for Catherine Lucy?
Did anybody call the presidentout for his behavior?
And if they didn't, they'recomplicit and they and they
should be ashamed as well andeverything, and and they're just
(12:11):
as guilty.
And in that moment, we would allquestion what we would do.
Now, hopefully you are clear andcertain about what exactly you
would do in that situation.
In my coach training, we aretaught and learn that any given
(12:36):
circumstance is neutral until wehave a thought about it.
So for example, the presidentcalling reporter Catherine Lucy,
quiet piggy, and saying that toher is neutral until we have a
thought about it.
That thought creates a feeling,that feeling creates an action,
(12:56):
that action creates a result.
If your thought is this is adirect conflict of my values,
you might feel angry about it.
You might speak up and saysomething, and then there was a
result from that.
You might be so shocked in themoment, your thought might be, I
was stunned that somebody wouldeven say that to another human
(13:19):
being.
I was and you're feeling as thatI was paralyzed.
You know, I was so shocked andso stunned that I didn't know
what to do in that moment.
But here's the thing when wedeal with bullies, usually their
behavior is not in isolation.
So if you miss an opportunity tosay something, the likelihood is
(13:42):
they will do it again.
It's not right.
But you then may have adifferent decision or different
action on how you choose toaddress that particular
situation.
So much of this conversationthis week around bullying in the
workplace has been aboutprofessionalism and what quote
(14:05):
unquote effective leadershipshould be.
I will share with you that thereare some people out there who
think what he did was perfectlyacceptable.
It's not.
Not in my opinion.
It is not.
I will emphatically say over andover and over again that no one,
(14:25):
regardless of power, position,or circumstance, should ever
talk to another human being inthat way.
He could have handled thatsituation differently.
Maybe he went for the viralmoment.
He certainly got it.
Being professional doesn't meanbeing passive.
(14:50):
And being passive doesn't meanyou're being silent.
Being professional is aboutbeing calm, clear, firm, and
honoring your ground rules orboundaries that you have set up
for how people treat you and howyou treat other people as well.
(15:17):
I saw this quote this week thatprofessionalism protects you,
silence protects the bully.
Let me say that again.
Professionalism protects you,silence protects the bully.
You are not being disrespectfulfor setting and honoring a
(15:39):
ground rule.
You are responsible for your owndignity.
One of my biggest regrets, andwe talk about bullying behavior.
So um in my early 30s, I wasattacked.
(16:00):
Um, I was on vacation.
I was uh with a friend of mine,someone whom I had been in
graduate school with.
We had gone away to the beachfor a weekend, and um we were we
were walking along theboardwalk.
It was late at night.
We had gone to dinner, gone outto a bar, had a couple drinks,
(16:20):
and um we were walking back toour hotel, and um what what I
recall were four teenagers onbicycles, and one of them came
up and hit me in the back of thehead.
And I never saw it coming, neverheard it coming, um, clocked me
(16:43):
right in the back of the head,like right, like a little off
center at the base of like wherethe spine connects with the
brain, like so just a little bitoff to the side.
And I hit the ground.
I mean, I went, I went down, andall I remember them saying was
effing faggot.
(17:05):
And I didn't do anything.
I never reported it because Inever got a look at them.
I was so scared, I was so upset,and I thought, well, they're
never gonna catch them.
There's there's no proof, youknow, there's probably no video
(17:26):
or anything like that.
And I and I remember feeling so,so small.
Um, I was in chiropractic carefor six weeks after that.
I had tremendous pain in myneck.
Um, and and all that was just aconstant reminder.
And it brought back so manythings from when I was a kid and
(17:47):
when I was bullied, and youknow, thinking about my job and
and how I had worked with peoplewho were trying to put me down.
And looking back on the wholething, I would have absolutely
had gone to the police to reportit, even if it was just for the
sake of, look, this happened tome.
I don't know who it was, I don'tknow why they did it, but but I
(18:11):
need to tell somebody.
And so when I think about how wetreat each other, when I think
about how we show up and and howwe can respond in the moment, we
have to make a choice about whatwe believe is right and best for
us at the time.
(18:33):
And some of you may disagreewith me on this, but in that
moment when you yourself decidehow you choose to respond or
react, there is no wrong choice.
It is what you believe is bestfor you.
So if you've ever been in asituation where you've been
bullied at work and you haveremained silent about it, that's
(18:57):
okay.
That's what you decided at thatmoment.
And if and when it happensagain, what do you want to do
about it?
So, how do you respond in themoment?
How do you respond in the momentwhen someone is bullying you and
(19:19):
you don't want to stand for it,but you still want to respond or
behave in a professional manner?
This is about conflict.
And admittedly, as human beings,we are not great with conflict.
A lot of times we avoidconflict.
So, how do you respond in themoment?
First thing I want to offer youto do is to name the behavior.
(19:39):
You might say something tosomeone, please don't speak to
me that way.
I'm here to have a professionalconversation or I'm doing my
job.
Please do not speak to me thatway.
Now, you've named the behavior.
You are going to follow it upwith a ground rule statement.
That ground rule statement mightbe something like, I'm happy to
(20:04):
continue this conversation whenwe can do it respectfully.
I remember working with someonein an organization, they dropped
more F bombs than I could keeptally of at times.
They were like, oh, that's justwho they are.
Okay, well, if I find thatlanguage offensive, and I can
(20:26):
tell you, there have been peoplewho stood up to him and were
like, I find that languageoffensive, don't use that
language around me.
And his response was, well, Foff.
Yeah, you know, that was thatwas that situation.
You have a ground rule, you havea boundary, okay?
So please don't speak to me thatway.
I'm here to have a professionalconversation.
I'm happy to continue thisdiscussion if and when we can do
(20:51):
it respectfully.
And then you are going toredirect.
And you will redirect from aposition of clarity by saying,
I'd like to finish my point.
So just take a step back for asecond.
You are going to call out theoffensive behavior.
Please don't speak to me thatway.
(21:13):
That makes me uncomfortable.
I am here to have a professionalconversation.
I'm happy to continue thediscussion if and when we can do
so respectfully.
I'd like to finish my point.
All right.
(21:41):
And that agency is to simplypause the conversation and say
something like, I'm going tostep away from this conversation
now.
Let's pick this conversation upin 24 hours, or let's pick up
this conversation.
I will go ahead and reschedulethe meeting.
But right now, this is too tensefor both of us.
(22:03):
We're going to discontinue theconversation.
In standing up to a bully, youdo not have to nor need to match
the tone or energy of a bully tostand your ground.
Setting these ground rules wassuch an important part for me
(22:24):
because, and I write about thisin my first book, Show Up Six
Strategies to Lead a MoreEnergetic and Impactful Career.
But in the book, I talk abouthow I actively worked at
repairing the relationship I hadwith my family after I came out.
And part of it was establishingground rules to help deal with
(22:46):
our collective anger and upsetaround what we were
experiencing.
So one of the ground rules wehad was we would only ask
questions out of curiosity andinformation, not to embarrass or
belittle.
Another ground rule that I hadthat was extremely important to
(23:08):
me was no matter how angry I maybe, I will always end my
conversations with, I love youand mean it.
And I'm very, very grateful Idid that.
We set ground rules for theseconversations to set boundaries
in terms of how we play.
(23:30):
So you are not an inactiveparticipant in this
conversation.
If someone is being aggressiveor if someone is being a bully
toward you and is making youuncomfortable, what I want to
offer you here is thisopportunity to very simply call
(23:51):
it out.
Name the behavior, use a groundrule statement, redirect with
clarity.
And if you are unable tocontinue that conversation with
clarity, with calm, withprofessionalism, you can end the
conversation and come backlater.
(24:12):
I have used this strategymultiple times in my career when
I have delivered feedback thatwas uncomfortable and someone
got upset.
When I have had to havedifficult conversations with
management or leadership, and wegot upset, we would step out of
the conversation and come backto it.
(24:34):
And one of the things I alwayscome back to, and again, this
was about how I was able torepair the relationship with my
family, was you know, ending aconversation didn't mean it was
final.
It was the last thing that I wasgoing to walk out of the house
and never speak to them again.
If that happened, we wouldregroup.
(24:58):
And there was a time I remembermy my mom, God bless her, you
know, we're just having such asuch a really difficult time.
And and I looked at her, and I,by the way, for reference, I was
in my late 20s, early 30s whenthis happened.
And I said, um I said, look,you're clearly angry, um, you're
(25:20):
being abusive, and I'm not gonnahave this conversation with you.
So if you cannot be respectful,we'll have this conversation
another time.
And my mom used loved the phrasesnot nose.
She goes, You snot nose, you'regonna talk to me this way and
everything.
Who do you think you are?
And I said, Um, I'm your son,I'm an adult, and I'm not gonna
(25:42):
stand for this.
So we're gonna end theconversation.
I love you.
I will reach out to you in acouple of days, we'll go ahead
and reschedule thisconversation, but I think it's
best we both walk away.
And and I and I left the house,and my mother was so mad at me.
Oh my gosh, she was so mad atme.
But how you build trust is youhonor the agreements you make.
(26:04):
And so I called her in a coupleof days.
We rescheduled thatconversation, and uh, I drove
down and spent more time withhim and everything.
And she one of the first thingsshe said to me was, I can't
believe you walked out of thehouse.
I said, Yeah, I can't believeyou were being disrespectful and
abusive.
That's not how this is gonna be.
(26:26):
And so you start building trustwith the bully.
You know, you start buildingtrust in that way in order to
make sure this is how things aregonna play moving forward.
Look, I loved my parents dearly.
I still love them.
Uh, you know, I miss themterribly.
My parents have been gone um,you know, 21 and 14 years.
(26:48):
Um, and and I, if you're hearingme say, you know, oh, my mom was
a bully, yeah, my mom could havebeen a bully at times, right?
She could have been.
She was, you know, she was veryum particular in her own ways,
kind of a thing.
But that was her journey.
That was okay.
I loved her no less, you know?
Um, but it was it was learninghow to set ground rules, how to
(27:11):
honor boundaries, how to makeagreements with people.
That's why this was so powerful.
And and I'm not saying that ifyou're dealing with a bully at
work or you're maybe you'restruggling with a personal
relationship that is that isabusive in some way, that this
is gonna be the one thing that'sgonna fix it all, because it may
not.
But the thing I want to offeryou here is that this is about
(27:34):
walking away from theconversation, knowing that you
stood up for yourself, knowingthat you honored your voice and
your presence and and how youare in that particular moment to
recognize what they can orcannot get away with.
Now, in the workplace, if youare dealing with bullying or
(27:56):
abusive behavior, after thatincident is done, I want you to
document that incident.
Document that incident while itis fresh in your mind.
Make sure you have a document ofit, if you need to email it to
yourself, whatever it may be,and then consider who you want
(28:18):
to share that experience with.
Is this something you take tohuman resources?
Is this something you take toyour direct manager, providing
they're not the bully in thiscase?
Is it your work bestie?
Is it your trusted friend orally at work that you need to
share this with?
When you are documenting andretelling the story and the
(28:39):
incident, use evidence-basedlanguage.
I heard, I saw, I witnessedwords like I think or I feel
about why they were angry or whythey were upset is not going to
(29:01):
help your case.
So essentially, when you'reusing this evidence-based
language, you're not usingadjectives, you're not using
emotional labels.
Additionally, you want to makesure you document and evaluate
any patterns in their behavior.
Not a one-off type situation,but is there a pattern of
(29:24):
abusive or bullying behaviorthat needs to happen?
And if needed, you may decide toexplore something called a skip
level conversation.
So, in that skip levelconversation, you're going to go
to somebody who is a level abovewhere you currently are, or two
(29:44):
levels above and skip that levelessentially, um, to see how they
may be able to help.
You may have an ombudsman or amediator within your HR
department or your legaldivision that might be able to
help mediate the next.
Meeting.
There might involve a role orteam change.
So you're no longer reporting tothat person.
(30:07):
And you might potentially lookat leaving the organization and
finding a new job to goelsewhere because you recognize
that where you are may no longerbe a good fit and you just don't
want to be a part of thatsituation anymore.
Again, I'm not condoning badbehavior.
(30:28):
Right?
If you are in a situation thatyou are being um verbally or
even physically abused at work,right?
Um, that is unacceptable.
It is unprofessional.
It should not be tolerated.
You have to figure out what youwant to do, and there are
resources and people availableto help you in those situations.
(30:53):
Okay.
But here's the other piece.
In all of this conversation overthe past week around these
comments about quiet piggy,there's been another
conversation at play.
(31:13):
And that conversation has beenwhat great leaders do instead.
Great leaders are leaders whohave strong emotional
intelligence and they modelcomposure.
They don't need to demean ordiminish someone else by
demonstrating their authority.
(31:35):
They treat people with respect,even in conflict.
I had a business situation lastweek, and I was I was on the
phone with two different umorganizations um that handle
something for my business, andand I said uh four words to them
(32:00):
very calmly, and I said, I amnot happy.
I didn't say anything afterthat.
As coaches, we learn to holdspace, and I said, I am not
happy.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
What do you think it was that they said?
What they said was, it'sunderstandable you're not happy.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
How do we make this better?
We were able to come to amutually agreeable resolution.
See, leaders, good leaders,great leaders, um show restraint
under pressure.
I've not always done that.
Right?
(32:52):
It's how we learn.
You know, we don't always handlesituations as best as we would
like.
Great leaders inviteaccountability and questions and
reflection and forethought.
Great leaders own where theyare.
Great leaders acceptresponsibility.
(33:14):
And great leaders who have greatstress and great pressure on
them for whatever organizationthey're running, great leaders
recognize that being in chargedoes not give them permission or
the right to belittle anotherperson ever.
(33:35):
Over this past week, I havethought so much about the the
women I've coached, the womenI've worked with, the women I've
I've led alongside, the womenwho have led me.
And this this whole incidentthis past week has has really
(33:56):
upset me.
Um it's not the example Ibelieve that we should be
putting out there.
And do I ever think we're gonnaget an apology from the
president about that?
No, I don't.
I don't think he's capable, Idon't think he's that kind of
person.
(34:16):
Um I have worked with leaderswho I believe like him are
emotionally unavailable, um,that just will never issue an
apology.
They just won't.
Now, I might be wrong.
Okay, that that would be great.
But in closing, here's what Ihere's what I want you to lean
(34:38):
into.
When you think about the fourF's, the four Fs that I've
talked about and I coach aroundabout fit, function, finance,
and forward.
The fit is about deserving aworkplace where you are
respected, heard, and valued.
(34:58):
And I invite you to think aboutwhat demonstrates for you what
being respected, heard, andvalued are?
How do you know when you'rebeing seen, when you're
respected, heard, and valued?
I encourage you to think aboutthese questions.
(35:19):
Where am I toleratingdisrespect?
Where do I need firmerboundaries?
What support do I need toprotect my professional
well-being?
You might be driving forThanksgiving or traveling for
(35:40):
Thanksgiving and spending timewith family or friends where
maybe you have differingviewpoints and opinions on
things.
You can set a boundary beforedinner.
We're not gonna talk politics,we're not gonna talk religion,
we're not gonna talk aboutthings that are controversial.
Or if we are gonna talk aboutthose things, we're gonna
(36:01):
maintain respect and decorum.
We're gonna listen and becurious.
We're not gonna say anything tobelittle or demean.
When I managed a team ofinstructional coaches for DC
Public Schools, one of theground rules we had for all of
our meetings and interactionswas challenge ideas, not the
person.
(36:22):
Do you know why we had thatground rule?
Challenge ideas and not theperson.
Because I had been in meetingswhere people were calling each
other stupid uh-uh.
We can challenge an idea, we'renot gonna challenge the person.
We're not gonna belittle ordemean them.
(36:44):
This whole episode hopefully hasgiven you some things to think
about what it means to stand upfor yourself.
Standing up for yourself is notabout being confrontational, it
is not about responding with thesame level or greater fight.
Standing up for yourself isabout clarity.
(37:06):
It is the clarity that you havethat defines how you choose to
show up in a given moment,because that honors who you are,
and it's your values, and it'syour system that you walk with
day in and day out becausethat's who you are.
(37:29):
That is how you choose to lead.
And clarity is the foundation ofleadership.
I would far rather work forsomeone who is clear on what
they stand for, what theyacknowledge, and what they
believe in.
So I know what I'm getting everysingle time.
(37:50):
I do not want to be led by achameleon.
I never want to have to walkinto a leadership conversation
and unsure of what I'm going toget today.
I have been there.
It's not fun.
Right?
So, in your role right now,think about how your leadership
(38:14):
is clearly defined and how yourteam and direct reports and the
people whom you are reporting toknow what they are getting on a
consistent basis.
That is powerful andtransformative leadership.
That is what great leaders do.
So, my friends, take care ofyourself, be kind to yourself,
(38:41):
protect yourself, stand up forwho you are and what you
believe.
And if you are called to um setthose ground rules and those
boundaries, and that's what youbelieve is best, I applaud you.
So much of my coaching right nowis focusing on helping people
(39:02):
show up in the ways they want,showing up in their jobs and in
their work and theirprofessional lives and how
they're leading people.
So if this episode resonatedwith you, if this episode means
something to you, if you arelooking to explore your
leadership and how you show upwith clarity and conviction, um,
(39:23):
and this has been impactful foryou, then I invite you to reach
out and learn more about how Ican help you as your coach.
You can message me on LinkedInor you can email me at john at
johnner.com.
Happy to talk with you a littlemore about how I can help you as
your coach.
So that being said, this episodewent far longer than what I
(39:45):
thought, but I think we're justgonna keep it and uh and and get
it out there.
And uh happy Thanksgiving.
I am grateful for you.
Thank you for being part of thispodcasting journey with me.
Thank you for who you are andwhat you do.
And wherever you travel, howeveryou travel, and wherever you go
this Thanksgiving holiday, um besafe, make memories, and
(40:12):
remember how you show upmatters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you for listening to theMidCareer GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform, and
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(40:32):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrell.com for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPS,or how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at Johnnarrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(40:54):
Until then, take care.
And remember, how we show upmatters.
Hello, my friends.
With just a few days beforeThanksgiving, I thought this
episode was going to be oneabout saying how thankful I am
and sharing with you a few funstories, but then something
happened last week and I simplycannot overlook it.
In this episode, I'm going totalk with you about bullying in
(00:21):
the workplace and how you canprotect your voice and your
dignity no matter who's in theroom.
I hope you will stick around forthis conversation.
We've got a lot to discuss, solet's get started.
(00:50):
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a career they love
or love the one they have usingmy proven four-step formula.
Now, if you're new to thepodcast or you maybe have never
heard about this, I have a freeemail newsletter community I
send out twice a week thatdiscusses various leadership and
career strategies for mid-careerprofessionals.
(01:13):
It's called the Mid-Career GPSNewsletter, and you can get it
by checking the show notes orvisiting my website at
johnner.com forward slashresources to sign up for this
twice weekly newsletter.
Come on in and let me help youfigure out whatever is next for
you and your career.
So last week there was anincident about leadership.
(01:39):
And this one triggered me in alot of ways.
And I just want to say, I'm notusing the word trigger lightly,
because during my time as amid-career professional, and for
so many of you who aremid-career professionals, you
often face subtle or overtdisrespect.
(02:00):
And when that disrespects comefrom people who are in powerful
positions, you may be uncertainas to how you want to, think to,
or should show up.
So here's the point ofreference.
Last week, aboard Air Force One,there was a gaggle, and the
(02:22):
gaggle is often referred to asthe press corps on board Air
Force One.
And a distinguished journalistfrom Bloomberg News, Catherine
Lucy, proceeded to ask PresidentDonald Trump a question.
Now, as I've watched the videomultiple times, both on the news
and online, the nonverbal aswell as the verbal that comes
(02:49):
from the president of the UnitedStates is very pointed and
directed.
You have probably heard thethree words quiet, quiet piggy.
Now, this podcast is apolitical.
Um, I'm not gonna get intoanything political in nature
(03:11):
about whether you disapprove ofthe administration, approve of
the administration, whateverthat is.
That's not the point here.
This is a conversation aboutleadership.
And I have talked to a lot ofpeople this week where this
particular incident brought up alot of emotion.
(03:31):
So let's unpack this a littlebit.
Okay.
When someone who is in aposition of power looks at
another person and sayssomething like, Quiet piggy,
they are being dismissive,dehumanizing, and their intent
(03:55):
is designed to belittle andsilence them in that moment.
I don't care whether you're thepresident of the United States,
you're CEO of a company, you aresomeone's immediate supervisor.
If you are looked at and pointedat and said, Quiet piggy, we
have to acknowledge that notonly is this unprofessional
(04:17):
behavior, that the intent is toscare, belittle, bully, and
dehumanize.
Aside from making you be silent.
The reason why this incident isso important in this mid-career
conversation is that thismirrors what some or many of you
(04:45):
may have experienced at somepoint in your career or have
recently experienced.
You are interrupted, you aretalked over, you are humiliated
publicly, and you are dismissedbecause someone who is in a
position of power is exercisingtheir authority with the intent
(05:08):
to belittle you.
I want to reiterate again (05:10):
this is not about politics.
This is about leadershipbehavior, modeling
professionalism, andunderstanding what is and what
is not acceptable at work.
Have you ever been bullied bysomeone at work?
(05:32):
For the purpose of thisconversation, I'm going to
define bullying behavior as oneverbal aggression.
It is someone who is insulting,mocking, or humiliating you
publicly.
Two, it is about interrupting ortalking over you.
(05:54):
And it is done in a way for thatperson to assert their
dominance, essentially theirprofessional dominance.
It will look things like bequiet, listen to me, shut up.
And the third reason is aboutdismissing or minimizing your
(06:15):
expertise.
Now, additionally, the bullyingbehavior could be a retaliation
for something you did orsomething you said.
And it could also be aboutpassive aggressive sabotage.
Now, this particularly lookslike when someone is withholding
(06:37):
information from you orexcluding you from meetings in a
sense to diminish you or put youdown in some way, or even punish
you again for something you saidor you did.
The emotional impact of beingbullied at work is tremendous.
It's huge.
(06:59):
The impact of being bullied atwork results in things like
self-doubt, increased impostersyndrome, anxiety, being
hesitant or fearful aboutspeaking up in a meeting,
feeling small or powerless, oreven questioning your value at
(07:20):
work.
If this is happening to you, Iwant to acknowledge you are not
imagining it and you're notbeing oversensitive.
Bullying in any shape or form iswrong.
And in the workplace, it ishighly unprofessional and should
not be tolerated.
(07:42):
But you and I both know thishappens.
I'm not saying it's right.
I will share with you that Ihave had conversations over the
past week with several peoplewho have tried to rationalize
the president's behavior insaying something like that.
And I've had conversations backto simply say, I don't
(08:04):
understand how that can berationalized.
It doesn't make sense to me.
If that was your mother, yourwife, your sister, your aunt,
your daughter, and you heardthat someone said to them,
quiet, Piggy, you'd be okay withthat?
That you think they deserved it?
(08:25):
And as I've read multiplereports and I've heard things
even from the White House presssecretary saying how she was
acting unprofessional to herfellow colleagues and
everything.
Even if that were to be true,and I was not on Air Force One,
so I don't know that to be true,but even if it were, I still
(08:45):
can't find a way to rationalizethat kind of unprofessional
behavior by calling anotherhuman being Piggy.
And as I've thought about this,I have thought, oh my gosh, what
if he called her a differentname?
Would we have a differentreaction?
(09:07):
We can't get into severity orescalation of terms because
we're not going to justifyunprofessional behavior here.
Here's the other thing I wantyou to be aware of.
And to be clear, I'm notmagnifying or catastrophizing
(09:30):
this situation because you and Iboth know there are leaders out
there who are bullies.
You and I know that if you arethe recipient of that bullying
behavior, you do feel small.
You're probably angry as well,but not sure how to handle it.
(09:54):
And more than likely, if you arelistening to this podcast, you
have such a big heart that Iwill say with absolute 100%
certainty that behavior likethis bothers you.
That is not the way you wouldshow up.
It is not the way you wouldhandle a situation.
(10:16):
You are appalled at that kind ofbehavior.
There have been times in mycareer where I have been bullied
by somebody in a superiorposition to me.
They have been dismissive, theyhave been um diminutive.
(10:42):
They have tried to exercisetheir authority in a way to make
me feel bad about speaking up orabout um how I've handled a
situation because it didn'tagree or align with their
particular philosophy.
Now, I am 56 years old.
(11:04):
56-year-old John Nrell wouldhandle things very differently
than 36-year-old John Nerowould.
And I will share with you thatthere was a moment that I was
dealing with a senior executivewithin an organization who lied
and tried to throw me under thebus in front of my direct
(11:25):
superior.
And I stopped the meeting and Ilooked him directly in the eye
and I said, You and I both knowthat is a lie.
Stop doing that.
36-year-old John would not havedone that.
46-year-old John did.
Okay.
But how we choose to show up andhandle those situations are
(11:49):
honestly a quick evaluationabout risk and reward in the
moment.
I have seen things online aboutsaying, you know, did did
anybody in the press gagglespeak up for Catherine Lucy?
Did anybody call the presidentout for his behavior?
And if they didn't, they'recomplicit and they and they
should be ashamed as well andeverything, and and they're just
(12:11):
as guilty.
And in that moment, we would allquestion what we would do.
Now, hopefully you are clear andcertain about what exactly you
would do in that situation.
In my coach training, we aretaught and learn that any given
(12:36):
circumstance is neutral until wehave a thought about it.
So for example, the presidentcalling reporter Catherine Lucy,
quiet piggy, and saying that toher is neutral until we have a
thought about it.
That thought creates a feeling,that feeling creates an action,
(12:56):
that action creates a result.
If your thought is this is adirect conflict of my values,
you might feel angry about it.
You might speak up and saysomething, and then there was a
result from that.
You might be so shocked in themoment, your thought might be, I
was stunned that somebody wouldeven say that to another human
(13:19):
being.
I was and you're feeling as thatI was paralyzed.
You know, I was so shocked andso stunned that I didn't know
what to do in that moment.
But here's the thing when wedeal with bullies, usually their
behavior is not in isolation.
So if you miss an opportunity tosay something, the likelihood is
(13:42):
they will do it again.
It's not right.
But you then may have adifferent decision or different
action on how you choose toaddress that particular
situation.
So much of this conversationthis week around bullying in the
workplace has been aboutprofessionalism and what quote
(14:05):
unquote effective leadershipshould be.
I will share with you that thereare some people out there who
think what he did was perfectlyacceptable.
It's not.
Not in my opinion.
It is not.
I will emphatically say over andover and over again that no one,
(14:25):
regardless of power, position,or circumstance, should ever
talk to another human being inthat way.
He could have handled thatsituation differently.
Maybe he went for the viralmoment.
He certainly got it.
Being professional doesn't meanbeing passive.
(14:50):
And being passive doesn't meanyou're being silent.
Being professional is aboutbeing calm, clear, firm, and
honoring your ground rules orboundaries that you have set up
for how people treat you and howyou treat other people as well.
(15:17):
I saw this quote this week thatprofessionalism protects you,
silence protects the bully.
Let me say that again.
Professionalism protects you,silence protects the bully.
You are not being disrespectfulfor setting and honoring a
(15:39):
ground rule.
You are responsible for your owndignity.
One of my biggest regrets, andwe talk about bullying behavior.
So um in my early 30s, I wasattacked.
(16:00):
Um, I was on vacation.
I was uh with a friend of mine,someone whom I had been in
graduate school with.
We had gone away to the beachfor a weekend, and um we were we
were walking along theboardwalk.
It was late at night.
We had gone to dinner, gone outto a bar, had a couple drinks,
(16:20):
and um we were walking back toour hotel, and um what what I
recall were four teenagers onbicycles, and one of them came
up and hit me in the back of thehead.
And I never saw it coming, neverheard it coming, um, clocked me
(16:43):
right in the back of the head,like right, like a little off
center at the base of like wherethe spine connects with the
brain, like so just a little bitoff to the side.
And I hit the ground.
I mean, I went, I went down, andall I remember them saying was
effing faggot.
(17:05):
And I didn't do anything.
I never reported it because Inever got a look at them.
I was so scared, I was so upset,and I thought, well, they're
never gonna catch them.
There's there's no proof, youknow, there's probably no video
(17:26):
or anything like that.
And I and I remember feeling so,so small.
Um, I was in chiropractic carefor six weeks after that.
I had tremendous pain in myneck.
Um, and and all that was just aconstant reminder.
And it brought back so manythings from when I was a kid and
(17:47):
when I was bullied, and youknow, thinking about my job and
and how I had worked with peoplewho were trying to put me down.
And looking back on the wholething, I would have absolutely
had gone to the police to reportit, even if it was just for the
sake of, look, this happened tome.
I don't know who it was, I don'tknow why they did it, but but I
(18:11):
need to tell somebody.
And so when I think about how wetreat each other, when I think
about how we show up and and howwe can respond in the moment, we
have to make a choice about whatwe believe is right and best for
us at the time.
(18:33):
And some of you may disagreewith me on this, but in that
moment when you yourself decidehow you choose to respond or
react, there is no wrong choice.
It is what you believe is bestfor you.
So if you've ever been in asituation where you've been
bullied at work and you haveremained silent about it, that's
(18:57):
okay.
That's what you decided at thatmoment.
And if and when it happensagain, what do you want to do
about it?
So, how do you respond in themoment?
How do you respond in the momentwhen someone is bullying you and
(19:19):
you don't want to stand for it,but you still want to respond or
behave in a professional manner?
This is about conflict.
And admittedly, as human beings,we are not great with conflict.
A lot of times we avoidconflict.
So, how do you respond in themoment?
First thing I want to offer youto do is to name the behavior.
(19:39):
You might say something tosomeone, please don't speak to
me that way.
I'm here to have a professionalconversation or I'm doing my
job.
Please do not speak to me thatway.
Now, you've named the behavior.
You are going to follow it upwith a ground rule statement.
That ground rule statement mightbe something like, I'm happy to
(20:04):
continue this conversation whenwe can do it respectfully.
I remember working with someonein an organization, they dropped
more F bombs than I could keeptally of at times.
They were like, oh, that's justwho they are.
Okay, well, if I find thatlanguage offensive, and I can
(20:26):
tell you, there have been peoplewho stood up to him and were
like, I find that languageoffensive, don't use that
language around me.
And his response was, well, Foff.
Yeah, you know, that was thatwas that situation.
You have a ground rule, you havea boundary, okay?
So please don't speak to me thatway.
I'm here to have a professionalconversation.
I'm happy to continue thisdiscussion if and when we can do
(20:51):
it respectfully.
And then you are going toredirect.
And you will redirect from aposition of clarity by saying,
I'd like to finish my point.
So just take a step back for asecond.
You are going to call out theoffensive behavior.
Please don't speak to me thatway.
(21:13):
That makes me uncomfortable.
I am here to have a professionalconversation.
I'm happy to continue thediscussion if and when we can do
so respectfully.
I'd like to finish my point.
All right.
(21:41):
And that agency is to simplypause the conversation and say
something like, I'm going tostep away from this conversation
now.
Let's pick this conversation upin 24 hours, or let's pick up
this conversation.
I will go ahead and reschedulethe meeting.
But right now, this is too tensefor both of us.
(22:03):
We're going to discontinue theconversation.
In standing up to a bully, youdo not have to nor need to match
the tone or energy of a bully tostand your ground.
Setting these ground rules wassuch an important part for me
(22:24):
because, and I write about thisin my first book, Show Up Six
Strategies to Lead a MoreEnergetic and Impactful Career.
But in the book, I talk abouthow I actively worked at
repairing the relationship I hadwith my family after I came out.
And part of it was establishingground rules to help deal with
(22:46):
our collective anger and upsetaround what we were
experiencing.
So one of the ground rules wehad was we would only ask
questions out of curiosity andinformation, not to embarrass or
belittle.
Another ground rule that I hadthat was extremely important to
(23:08):
me was no matter how angry I maybe, I will always end my
conversations with, I love youand mean it.
And I'm very, very grateful Idid that.
We set ground rules for theseconversations to set boundaries
in terms of how we play.
(23:30):
So you are not an inactiveparticipant in this
conversation.
If someone is being aggressiveor if someone is being a bully
toward you and is making youuncomfortable, what I want to
offer you here is thisopportunity to very simply call
(23:51):
it out.
Name the behavior, use a groundrule statement, redirect with
clarity.
And if you are unable tocontinue that conversation with
clarity, with calm, withprofessionalism, you can end the
conversation and come backlater.
(24:12):
I have used this strategymultiple times in my career when
I have delivered feedback thatwas uncomfortable and someone
got upset.
When I have had to havedifficult conversations with
management or leadership, and wegot upset, we would step out of
the conversation and come backto it.
(24:34):
And one of the things I alwayscome back to, and again, this
was about how I was able torepair the relationship with my
family, was you know, ending aconversation didn't mean it was
final.
It was the last thing that I wasgoing to walk out of the house
and never speak to them again.
If that happened, we wouldregroup.
(24:58):
And there was a time I remembermy my mom, God bless her, you
know, we're just having such asuch a really difficult time.
And and I looked at her, and I,by the way, for reference, I was
in my late 20s, early 30s whenthis happened.
And I said, um I said, look,you're clearly angry, um, you're
(25:20):
being abusive, and I'm not gonnahave this conversation with you.
So if you cannot be respectful,we'll have this conversation
another time.
And my mom used loved the phrasesnot nose.
She goes, You snot nose, you'regonna talk to me this way and
everything.
Who do you think you are?
And I said, Um, I'm your son,I'm an adult, and I'm not gonna
(25:42):
stand for this.
So we're gonna end theconversation.
I love you.
I will reach out to you in acouple of days, we'll go ahead
and reschedule thisconversation, but I think it's
best we both walk away.
And and I and I left the house,and my mother was so mad at me.
Oh my gosh, she was so mad atme.
But how you build trust is youhonor the agreements you make.
(26:04):
And so I called her in a coupleof days.
We rescheduled thatconversation, and uh, I drove
down and spent more time withhim and everything.
And she one of the first thingsshe said to me was, I can't
believe you walked out of thehouse.
I said, Yeah, I can't believeyou were being disrespectful and
abusive.
That's not how this is gonna be.
(26:26):
And so you start building trustwith the bully.
You know, you start buildingtrust in that way in order to
make sure this is how things aregonna play moving forward.
Look, I loved my parents dearly.
I still love them.
Uh, you know, I miss themterribly.
My parents have been gone um,you know, 21 and 14 years.
(26:48):
Um, and and I, if you're hearingme say, you know, oh, my mom was
a bully, yeah, my mom could havebeen a bully at times, right?
She could have been.
She was, you know, she was veryum particular in her own ways,
kind of a thing.
But that was her journey.
That was okay.
I loved her no less, you know?
Um, but it was it was learninghow to set ground rules, how to
(27:11):
honor boundaries, how to makeagreements with people.
That's why this was so powerful.
And and I'm not saying that ifyou're dealing with a bully at
work or you're maybe you'restruggling with a personal
relationship that is that isabusive in some way, that this
is gonna be the one thing that'sgonna fix it all, because it may
not.
But the thing I want to offeryou here is that this is about
(27:34):
walking away from theconversation, knowing that you
stood up for yourself, knowingthat you honored your voice and
your presence and and how youare in that particular moment to
recognize what they can orcannot get away with.
Now, in the workplace, if youare dealing with bullying or
(27:56):
abusive behavior, after thatincident is done, I want you to
document that incident.
Document that incident while itis fresh in your mind.
Make sure you have a document ofit, if you need to email it to
yourself, whatever it may be,and then consider who you want
(28:18):
to share that experience with.
Is this something you take tohuman resources?
Is this something you take toyour direct manager, providing
they're not the bully in thiscase?
Is it your work bestie?
Is it your trusted friend orally at work that you need to
share this with?
When you are documenting andretelling the story and the
(28:39):
incident, use evidence-basedlanguage.
I heard, I saw, I witnessedwords like I think or I feel
about why they were angry or whythey were upset is not going to
(29:01):
help your case.
So essentially, when you'reusing this evidence-based
language, you're not usingadjectives, you're not using
emotional labels.
Additionally, you want to makesure you document and evaluate
any patterns in their behavior.
Not a one-off type situation,but is there a pattern of
(29:24):
abusive or bullying behaviorthat needs to happen?
And if needed, you may decide toexplore something called a skip
level conversation.
So, in that skip levelconversation, you're going to go
to somebody who is a level abovewhere you currently are, or two
(29:44):
levels above and skip that levelessentially, um, to see how they
may be able to help.
You may have an ombudsman or amediator within your HR
department or your legaldivision that might be able to
help mediate the next.
Meeting.
There might involve a role orteam change.
So you're no longer reporting tothat person.
(30:07):
And you might potentially lookat leaving the organization and
finding a new job to goelsewhere because you recognize
that where you are may no longerbe a good fit and you just don't
want to be a part of thatsituation anymore.
Again, I'm not condoning badbehavior.
(30:28):
Right?
If you are in a situation thatyou are being um verbally or
even physically abused at work,right?
Um, that is unacceptable.
It is unprofessional.
It should not be tolerated.
You have to figure out what youwant to do, and there are
resources and people availableto help you in those situations.
(30:53):
Okay.
But here's the other piece.
In all of this conversation overthe past week around these
comments about quiet piggy,there's been another
conversation at play.
(31:13):
And that conversation has beenwhat great leaders do instead.
Great leaders are leaders whohave strong emotional
intelligence and they modelcomposure.
They don't need to demean ordiminish someone else by
demonstrating their authority.
(31:35):
They treat people with respect,even in conflict.
I had a business situation lastweek, and I was I was on the
phone with two different umorganizations um that handle
something for my business, andand I said uh four words to them
(32:00):
very calmly, and I said, I amnot happy.
I didn't say anything afterthat.
As coaches, we learn to holdspace, and I said, I am not
happy.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
What do you think it was that they said?
What they said was, it'sunderstandable you're not happy.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
How do we make this better?
We were able to come to amutually agreeable resolution.
See, leaders, good leaders,great leaders, um show restraint
under pressure.
I've not always done that.
Right?
(32:52):
It's how we learn.
You know, we don't always handlesituations as best as we would
like.
Great leaders inviteaccountability and questions and
reflection and forethought.
Great leaders own where theyare.
Great leaders acceptresponsibility.
(33:14):
And great leaders who have greatstress and great pressure on
them for whatever organizationthey're running, great leaders
recognize that being in chargedoes not give them permission or
the right to belittle anotherperson ever.
(33:35):
Over this past week, I havethought so much about the the
women I've coached, the womenI've worked with, the women I've
I've led alongside, the womenwho have led me.
And this this whole incidentthis past week has has really
(33:56):
upset me.
Um it's not the example Ibelieve that we should be
putting out there.
And do I ever think we're gonnaget an apology from the
president about that?
No, I don't.
I don't think he's capable, Idon't think he's that kind of
person.
(34:16):
Um I have worked with leaderswho I believe like him are
emotionally unavailable, um,that just will never issue an
apology.
They just won't.
Now, I might be wrong.
Okay, that that would be great.
But in closing, here's what Ihere's what I want you to lean
(34:38):
into.
When you think about the fourF's, the four Fs that I've
talked about and I coach aroundabout fit, function, finance,
and forward.
The fit is about deserving aworkplace where you are
respected, heard, and valued.
(34:58):
And I invite you to think aboutwhat demonstrates for you what
being respected, heard, andvalued are?
How do you know when you'rebeing seen, when you're
respected, heard, and valued?
I encourage you to think aboutthese questions.
(35:19):
Where am I toleratingdisrespect?
Where do I need firmerboundaries?
What support do I need toprotect my professional
well-being?
You might be driving forThanksgiving or traveling for
(35:40):
Thanksgiving and spending timewith family or friends where
maybe you have differingviewpoints and opinions on
things.
You can set a boundary beforedinner.
We're not gonna talk politics,we're not gonna talk religion,
we're not gonna talk aboutthings that are controversial.
Or if we are gonna talk aboutthose things, we're gonna
(36:01):
maintain respect and decorum.
We're gonna listen and becurious.
We're not gonna say anything tobelittle or demean.
When I managed a team ofinstructional coaches for DC
Public Schools, one of theground rules we had for all of
our meetings and interactionswas challenge ideas, not the
person.
(36:22):
Do you know why we had thatground rule?
Challenge ideas and not theperson.
Because I had been in meetingswhere people were calling each
other stupid uh-uh.
We can challenge an idea, we'renot gonna challenge the person.
We're not gonna belittle ordemean them.
(36:44):
This whole episode hopefully hasgiven you some things to think
about what it means to stand upfor yourself.
Standing up for yourself is notabout being confrontational, it
is not about responding with thesame level or greater fight.
Standing up for yourself isabout clarity.
(37:06):
It is the clarity that you havethat defines how you choose to
show up in a given moment,because that honors who you are,
and it's your values, and it'syour system that you walk with
day in and day out becausethat's who you are.
(37:29):
That is how you choose to lead.
And clarity is the foundation ofleadership.
I would far rather work forsomeone who is clear on what
they stand for, what theyacknowledge, and what they
believe in.
So I know what I'm getting everysingle time.
(37:50):
I do not want to be led by achameleon.
I never want to have to walkinto a leadership conversation
and unsure of what I'm going toget today.
I have been there.
It's not fun.
Right?
So, in your role right now,think about how your leadership
(38:14):
is clearly defined and how yourteam and direct reports and the
people whom you are reporting toknow what they are getting on a
consistent basis.
That is powerful andtransformative leadership.
That is what great leaders do.
So, my friends, take care ofyourself, be kind to yourself,
(38:41):
protect yourself, stand up forwho you are and what you
believe.
And if you are called to um setthose ground rules and those
boundaries, and that's what youbelieve is best, I applaud you.
So much of my coaching right nowis focusing on helping people
(39:02):
show up in the ways they want,showing up in their jobs and in
their work and theirprofessional lives and how
they're leading people.
So if this episode resonatedwith you, if this episode means
something to you, if you arelooking to explore your
leadership and how you show upwith clarity and conviction, um,
(39:23):
and this has been impactful foryou, then I invite you to reach
out and learn more about how Ican help you as your coach.
You can message me on LinkedInor you can email me at john at
johnner.com.
Happy to talk with you a littlemore about how I can help you as
your coach.
So that being said, this episodewent far longer than what I
(39:45):
thought, but I think we're justgonna keep it and uh and and get
it out there.
And uh happy Thanksgiving.
I am grateful for you.
Thank you for being part of thispodcasting journey with me.
Thank you for who you are andwhat you do.
And wherever you travel, howeveryou travel, and wherever you go
this Thanksgiving holiday, um besafe, make memories, and
(40:12):
remember how you show upmatters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you for listening to theMidCareer GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform, and
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
(40:32):
Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrell.com for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPS,or how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at Johnnarrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
(40:54):
Until then, take care.
And remember, how we show upmatters.
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