July 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Michael Pouliot shares how he went from working construction sites in his family’s real estate business as a middle schooler to founding Eon, serving as CIO at Carbon, and overseeing $1.5B in acquisitions. His journey highlights the power of discipline, people, and purpose in building a lasting legacy.
- Gained early real estate insight working with his grandfather on construction sites
- Sets firm work-life boundaries by disconnecting at home to be fully present
- Brings Wall Street-level discipline and quality control to every venture
- Believes success comes from having the right people in the right roles
- Pays above market to align teams with high-impact outcomes
- Encourages entrepreneurs to take action rather than wait for perfection
- Focused on creating affordable workforce housing nationwide
- Measures success by legacy—hoping to celebrate his 100th surrounded by generations of family
Link: https://www.michaelpouliot.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the JugglingEntrepreneur podcast, the show
where we explore what it reallytakes to balance business,
family and big ambitions.
Today's guest is Michael Puglio, a fourth-generation real
estate entrepreneur, founder andCEO of Eon and the chief
investment officer at Carbon, amiddle-market private equity
(00:29):
firm With over 15 years ofexperience spanning from Wall
Street, consulting and realestate, michael brings a rare
blend of hands-on know-how andfinancial precision to every
deal he touches.
From spending summers on jobsites as a kid to overseeing
$1.5 billion in real estateacquisitions, his journey is a
(00:52):
masterclass in turning legacyhustle and vision into a lasting
impact.
He's also the host of DealFlowpodcast and a passionate
educator who is helping the nextgeneration of real estate
entrepreneurs rise.
Generation of real estateentrepreneurs rise.
(01:14):
Oh, and he is doing all whileraising a young family in
Boulder, colorado.
If you have ever wondered howto juggle parenthood purpose and
powerhouse investing, thisepisode is for you, so let's
dive in.
Welcome, michael.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for that introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
No worries, I try to cover all the amazing things
that you do, but do you want toadd anything more?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think you did a great job and sometimes when I
hear my background out loud, itjust makes me feel like yeah,
like who is that person?
Who's that person that did allthat stuff?
Because I sure seem tired now,but I guess it's because of all
that stuff that happened.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right, I mean, I'm very inspired, so I'm ready to
dig in to learn a little bitmore about your amazing story.
So, you grew up from themulti-generation real estate
family and started learning thebusiness as early as in middle
school.
How did those early experiencesshape your approach to
(02:19):
entrepreneurship and leadershiptoday?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so thanks for that question.
So yeah, my father was adeveloper, mostly single family
luxury homes, Someone who woulddig holes or level ground or
(02:59):
operate as sort of like a gopheror go to shops and pick up
toilets and such Something thatyou would have a day and more of
a day labor or do characterbuilding sort of things.
I would say, and but it wasgreat pay for for someone of my
age and not not a job I wouldhave been able to get otherwise.
(03:22):
And I think what I learned wasthat during that time which is
something I learned from a lotof early jobs was that it was
not something I really wanted todo long term.
I didn't want to do that job.
It was very hard work, longhours up very, very early.
I would get up.
I had the pleasure of mygrandfather would work with us.
He would operate sort of as aforeman on the job and so him
and I would wake up very I wouldwake up very early.
He would pick me up before thesun was up and we would drive,
(03:43):
you know, sometimes up to twohours from where we live to
where the job was.
Got there, um and uh, worked,uh, essentially directly with my
grandfather or for him.
He didn't do any of the uh, thework part of it.
He would sort of just sit andmake sure people showed up and
and did their work and uh, I, uh, and then we would work from,
say, seven in the morning tothree Uh.
(04:04):
One of the benefits was that wedid end the day a little
earlier just because we werestarting so early.
But I think largely I learnedthat I did learn a lot about
construction and learn a lotabout the value of hard work and
I learned a lot about how tomanage projects, things like
that, but generally, I think,learned that those types of
(04:27):
projects were not where I wasgoing to find my niche.
It wasn't going to be the thingthat I did.
So it gave me good background.
It gave me good experience tolearn how those projects operate
, how to complete certain typesof construction, how to think
about what something could befrom just nothing.
But that context I did takewith me to my career today.
(04:50):
But I spent a lot more time onmore of the leadership, the team
building, the systems design,and I leave the project
management and the constructionmanagement to people who are
better suited to that sort offollow through, attention to
detail and project managementsort of activities.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, that's great.
That's a lot of work for amiddle schooler, but great yeah
yeah.
So, as a founder for EON andCIO at Carbon, how did you
juggle the operational demandsof leading two companies while
staying present with your family?
(05:31):
It might be really challengingit might be really challenging.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, it's very challenging.
So, you know, in Carbon I havea partner he's the CEO, his name
is Cody and so we have a great,amazing team under us and that
(06:01):
work with us to execute and runour properties, find and operate
new deals, and so you know Ihave to.
It's a testament to a greatteam that we're able to do
everything that we are able todo.
As it relates to Eon, we'rereally focused on educating and
bringing people through ajourney of trying to figure out
where they're going to fitinside of the real estate world,
from their first deal to theirhundredth deal, whatever that
might look like.
And so we're looking to educatethem, help them, coach them and
(06:23):
potentially help them buildthat business from scratch, if
that's something they're lookingto do.
And so the businesses aresomewhat complimentary.
They are adjacent to each other, they all exist within the
housing world and we're allultimately just trying to
provide, you know, great resultsfor clients, whether it be on
the single family side or, inthe case of carbon, a much
(06:45):
larger assets that can be, youknow, 10, 20, 30, $50 million
each.
And then, so far as on thefamily side, you know, I do my
best to keep the.
I have an office outside of myhome, so I do my best to try to
keep work at the office and,when I go home, be as present as
(07:05):
possible.
I would say that I'm not always100% at that.
I do my very best.
But sometimes there'sdefinitely a bleeding of worlds
between the professional and thepersonal and I tend to have a
very busy day on calls andvarious activities.
So sometimes I get home andrealize, oh, I didn't do this, I
(07:27):
didn't do that, I didn't closeoff that loop and I didn't tie
this off, and so there can be alittle bit of a wind down period
and kind of like a transitionperiod that's necessary, be a
little bit of a wind down periodand, you know, kind of like a
transition period that'snecessary, um, that, um that.
That can be frustrating, Ithink, for the family that I'm
not as present that I as Ishould be, and so what I try to
do is either leave the phone inthe car and when I get home, or
(07:47):
leave it in the laundry room andthen just, uh, try to kind of
like COVID, you know you tookoff all your, you know you came
home, you took off all yourclothes or whatever, and you
know then.
So it's kind of like that, it'ssort of like a sanitization and
then kind of come inside, andthen you know all the kids are
dying to see me by the time Iget home, so as as is my wife,
and so I try to give them asmuch attention as I can.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I love the idea of sanitization.
Maybe I should try to come homefrom work, but lovely idea.
Really makes sense, though, sothat when we go and present
ourselves to the family, theyreally feel that we are
(08:30):
committed to them for the timethat we are there, and that is
really important in building avery healthy family.
So, thank you, that was areally great tip building a very
healthy family.
So thank you, that was a reallygreat tip.
You have worked with top tierfinancial institutions like
Goldman Sachs, jp Morgan,merrill Lynch.
How did that experienceactually shape your approach?
(08:51):
There is always lesson learnedfrom organizations.
There are always lessonslearned from the experiences
from personal life, and you havea father who is an entrepreneur
himself, so how did that allshape the way you think, the way
(09:11):
you strategize and the way youhandle the things around?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah.
So if I start, I guess, withthe corporate experience and how
that affected me or how I bringthat into my business today, I
started my career so I had myundergrad in finance and I moved
from there.
I worked through the analystprogram at JP Morgan in York and
(09:37):
for their fixed income desk ininvestment management, and I
think that job is very much likeyou would see in the movies or
on TV shows.
I worked on a trading desk lotsof computer screens, bloomberg
terminals, everyone's yelling ateach other trading securities
and things like that and it wasa very high-paced, high-stress
(09:58):
environment, long hours, and soI think what I learned?
A couple of things I learned,and really it was based on
mentors, having bosses thathelped me understand these
things, helped me understandthese things, and one of them
was that you know, in in I maybe, a lot of jobs, but certainly
(10:24):
in investment management and onwall street there was an
intense focus on gettingeverything done that sort of the
day it was assigned becausethere was usually some sort of
client deadline, some sort ofdeadline that we were trying to
hit.
So I would frequently be workingon things that had to get done
by the end of the day and theywere assigned that day.
So you sort of had to, no matterwhat.
You kind of got to this pointwhere anything that you started
(10:47):
you knew you could get done inthe same day, even if that day
meant you started it at.
You know you got it assigned attwo in the afternoon and you
may have to work till six in themorning the next day to get it
done.
You know you just would justkeep going until it was done and
there was no, there was nooption to not get it done in the
amount of time, because theclient may be coming in at 10 AM
(11:07):
and you had to have it ready bysix because your MD was going
to come in and look at the workand give you comments, and then
you needed time to make theedits and then have them look at
it again and then, uh, finalizeit, then bring it to the
printer, have it printed, makesure it was printed right, look
at every page, check it before.
So there's just, and then allthat stuff usually would have
you have like minutes, uh, thatyou know, from the client's
(11:30):
perspective it was like this hasbeen ready forever, but on our
side it was a flurry of activityand it was almost um.
So I think just having thatexpectation that you can kind of
get anything done, uh, as as inthe time that you have allotted
, I think, is a really powerfulum, just skill or like habit to
develop inside of yourself.
And um, the second would be, uh, in the same vein, uh, my one
(11:55):
of my bosses, her name Margaret,would always tell me that we
had to have like an intenselevel of paranoia as it related
to client meetings, and so therewas this sort of unspoken rule
that you know you can make oneerror and that would be okay.
You wouldn't be okay, but itwould be okay.
The second time it happenedyou'd be fired, and so you
(12:23):
basically you know you only hadhad one.
It was like a two-strike system.
So if you ever, if there was ain a client setting right, if a
client saw an, error you got onefreebie.
If a client saw a second error,that would be it.
You'd be fired and you thatwould be the end of your career
at the company.
And so, um, that intenseparanoia was built around that
rule.
It was that, okay, well, we hadto make sure that you had a
sufficient maker checker system.
You made sure that whateverwork you were putting out there,
(12:45):
your draft was 100% error free,and so I think that intense
level of paranoia is somethingthat you know.
Really I bring to um, you knowmy businesses now and help uh.
Hopefully I'm not as uh hard onmy teams as maybe I was uh
treated uh earlier in my career,but I think that there is some
(13:07):
benefit to having that level ofexpectation of yourself and of
your people to make sure that,um, if, if you know, especially
in the investment business whereyou're managing other people's
money, uh, or their projects,their livelihoods, uh, you know,
especially in the investmentbusiness where you're managing
other people's money or theirprojects, their livelihoods, you
know an error in a footnotedoesn't seem like a big deal,
but you know, if that's wrong,then you know maybe the big
stuff is wrong.
So I always you know it startswith the small stuff and how you
(13:29):
do.
One thing is how you doeverything, I guess.
So those would be some of thebig lessons that I've learned
from that intense period of mylife.
I don't know if I think you hada couple other questions in
there, but I'll pause there andjust see where other stuff you
have there.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That's a great point and that's what most of the
people misunderstand about beingan entrepreneur or being a
person in the leadership rolearound their accountability
towards the team.
Being a person in theleadership role around their
accountability towards the team,and sometimes they feel like
it's a very high expectations,but they don't understand that
you're trying to bring the bestfrom them right.
That is a true leadership byitself and the way I understood
(14:09):
it.
You have been trained, you havelearned your lessons from your
experience and you're trying touse those valuable principles on
your team and it's going toenhance the performance and it's
going to enhance thepersonalities within your team
(14:29):
for their own better good.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, for their own good yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, definitely, yeah for the wrong good.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Let's move on to some of thecore things that you do right
now.
You have successfully led thedistressed property acquisitions
and turnarounds.
What are the key lessons thatyou have learned?
Navigating the deals thatdidn't go according to your plan
(14:56):
?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, yeah, so I would say the number one thing
specifically to this question isreally about having great
people in the right seats.
So we run all our businesses ona couple of different operating
systems, depending on whichbusiness, but we either EOS or
(15:18):
IDX, us or IDX, but in bothoperating modalities,
essentially everything is basedon having the right people in
the right seats doing the rightactivities, and so, whenever
there's been a project thathasn't gone to plan yes,
sometimes the Federal Reservewill increase interest rates or
something will happen that youreally can't control, but you
(15:41):
have the right people in theright seats.
They're going to know how tonavigate that situation, and so
you can't be everywhere, andwhat you can do, though, is do
your best to hire the rightpeople, train them properly and
give them the coaching they needto be able to, you know, make
decisions to solve problems in away that would be consistent
(16:02):
with what we would want them todo, and, ultimately, they will
naturally come to the sameconclusions that you would want
them to if you've hired themproperly and you've trained them
properly.
So I would say that's thebiggest thing, the biggest lead
metric that I see on projectswhere we're doing multi-million
dollar construction projects onlarger assets and just managing
(16:25):
those properties.
It's typically that there'ssomeone missing from the team,
like hey, we're missing aleasing agent, so no wonder
we're unable to lease the unitsat the bottom we want.
Or someone is in the role thatis just not the right fit, and
sometimes that's because we'veinherited that person from an
acquisition and we just haven'tturned that position over yet.
Or maybe they becomedisillusioned with the job, or
(16:47):
maybe there's some personalissue that's going on that we
need to dig into.
Maybe they are the right person.
They're just not showing up atthat moment in the position
because of something that'sgoing on, or it just sometimes
it takes a little bit of timefor things to turn around.
So, but again, I think it allcomes down to really great
people investing in those people, paying them really well.
Um, I, in my experience ofpaying extra, uh, paying more
(17:11):
than market.
Um, the benefit of paying morethan the market rate is that
people aren't constantly lookingfor other positions Uh, they're
focused on the job, they'refocused on being successful.
Looking for other positions,they're focused on the job,
they're focused on beingsuccessful.
And if you can create a rewardsystem that continues to
incentivize them around the KPIs, the metrics that you want, the
(17:34):
outcomes that you're desiringand that are important for the
success of the project.
They will go above and beyondto achieve those, and that's
what I've seen be the mostsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And it kind of summarizes one of the key
foundation for any successfulorganization, which are three.
Usually, we say there are threeP's right Product, people and
process.
And it's amazing that you havetaught the importance of people
(18:06):
and keeping them motivated andkeeping them properly trained so
that they can do their jobsproperly, and it's not every
time we come into a conversationthat we talk about that aspect
of it.
So again, thank thank you,Michael, for bringing that up.
We are going to wrap thisforecast by asking the last two
(18:28):
amazing questions that willcover the key takeaway.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Great.
So for someone listening who'sraising a family and thinking
about starting a business ormaking their first real estate
investment, what's one mindsetshift that can help them to move
forward with confidence?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
shift they can use to move forward, if they wanted to
start a business or take theleap to entrepreneurship, is
it's sort of like, just go forit.
I don't know if you can reallyjust I know that sounds a little
bit cliche, maybe, but I thinka lot of people get tied up in
this.
A lot of internal objectionsaround I need to know more, I
(19:24):
need to have more time, I needto wait till the time is right,
till the economy is better, andreally the best time to start is
yesterday, and you know whetherthat may mean you know a small
step in the right direction andyou're going to build that habit
every single day, movingtowards where you want to go,
and it may, you know.
You look back five years fromnow.
(19:45):
You're going to be surprisedwhere you are.
I'm certainly surprised where Iam.
I only left corporate America, Iguess, a little bit less than
10 years ago.
We've done some pretty amazingthings, and so I think you just
have to be willing to take thatleap of faith and know that
you're going a little bit intothe abyss and you're not going
to know everything.
You're not You're, and you'reonly going to learn it by doing
(20:07):
it.
So just take, take the leap offaith and know that you know you
have everything you need insideof you, and then you'll the
rest of you, learn as you go.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
OK, that is very motivational.
I got inspired right now.
So thank you, Michael.
One last question before wewrap up this podcast Looking
ahead, what's your vision, notjust for your companies, but for
how you want to shape thefuture of real estate and
entrepreneurship for the nextgeneration?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Sure, yeah.
So I thought you were going tosay shape the.
Yeah, I thought you were goingto say, not just for my business
but also for my family.
But I'll take the, I'll do this, I'll do the whole question
that you asked.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So yes, and please definitely include the family.
That's important.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, yes, so I'll answer the first part and then
I'll put my little bit in thereat the end.
So, yeah, I would say, you knowwe've been able to acquire a
lot of property.
Our goal with our businesses isto provide clean, safe,
affordable housing for, you know, kind of middle income
workforce housing.
(21:17):
Throughout the United States wesee that as a continued growing
need to have affordable, safehousing and there's a huge
shortage, and I think we can doour part as operators of real
estate not just financiers, butalso people who we own and
operate our own properties andso we feel like we can become a
top 100 owner in the country andprovide really safe housing and
(21:41):
hopefully improve thereputation of landlords and
private equity individuals.
I think that you know thecurrent environment is such that
perhaps we don't have the best,or there's a there's a
perception that we don't havethe best intentions as it
relates to providing housing tofolks, and I believe that there
is a private sector solution toproviding housing in America and
(22:04):
if we don't do a good enoughjob doing that, there will be a
government solution, and so Ifeel like, as on the private
side, as a capitalist, I want tobe able to provide a great
solution and that people can behappy living in our properties
and they can build theirfamilies, they can feel safe
there, they can send their kidsto school and enjoy the
(22:26):
playgrounds and the pools andall the amenities that we have.
So that's what my goal isoverall like.
In that way, from a numbersperspective, I want to get to
the point where we're acquiringa billion dollars of property
every single year.
It's not a again, we have toacquire property that's
consistent with our mandate,with our strategy, that makes
sense financially and makessense for our investors.
(22:49):
But you know, getting to thatgoal will require us to continue
to build strong teams, putgreat processes in place and
have a great product that youhad talked about, the three P's.
So having a great product,which is the apartment at the
end of the day, uh, for folks.
So, uh, now the other piece ofit, the family piece.
My goal with my family is, um,you know, I would love to be, I
(23:14):
love to live healthy a long time, uh, and be 100 years old, uh,
and sitting, uh, all of mychildren, all of their children,
all of their children at dinnerfor my birthday.
So that's what I like and I,from my, from my perspective of
I've done that.
It means that all my childrenspeak to me, which is, I think,
(23:34):
in today's environment is notnecessarily a given.
It means that you know I've gota, you know a bountiful family
of all of my, you know all mydescendants and I can enjoy that
.
At that point I'll be 100.
So you know, I don't know howwell I'm moving around at that
point, but hopefully well enoughto be able to do that.
So that's my goal.
It's something that I saw withmy grandfather got to do that,
(23:58):
and so I looked at that and Isaid, wow, and I was.
You know, he's passed away sometime ago now, but I was a
teenager at that point and Idon't think I really understood
how rare it is to have you know,all your kids, all your
grandkids, et cetera, in oneroom and celebrating, you know,
(24:18):
with you.
So that's my goal and I thinkthat it's an outcome of a
successful life from myperspective.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, and that is very great to hear, michael.
So I'm so glad that you havesaid it, because there have been
situations where people get somuch stuck in entrepreneurship
journey that they really losethe part of the value of family
(24:46):
and, as Michael has said, bothfamily life and entrepreneurship
are very valuable to have asuccessful and content life.
So thank you, michael, onceagain for joining on our podcast
, and you have an amazing dayahead thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I appreciate you having me on.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the JugglingEntrepreneur podcast, the show
where we explore what it reallytakes to balance business,
family and big ambitions.
Today's guest is Michael Puglio, a fourth-generation real
estate entrepreneur, founder andCEO of Eon and the chief
investment officer at Carbon, amiddle-market private equity
(00:29):
firm With over 15 years ofexperience spanning from Wall
Street, consulting and realestate, michael brings a rare
blend of hands-on know-how andfinancial precision to every
deal he touches.
From spending summers on jobsites as a kid to overseeing
$1.5 billion in real estateacquisitions, his journey is a
(00:52):
masterclass in turning legacyhustle and vision into a lasting
impact.
He's also the host of DealFlowpodcast and a passionate
educator who is helping the nextgeneration of real estate
entrepreneurs rise.
Generation of real estateentrepreneurs rise.
(01:14):
Oh, and he is doing all whileraising a young family in
Boulder, colorado.
If you have ever wondered howto juggle parenthood purpose and
powerhouse investing, thisepisode is for you, so let's
dive in.
Welcome, michael.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for that introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
No worries, I try to cover all the amazing things
that you do, but do you want toadd anything more?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think you did a great job and sometimes when I
hear my background out loud, itjust makes me feel like yeah,
like who is that person?
Who's that person that did allthat stuff?
Because I sure seem tired now,but I guess it's because of all
that stuff that happened.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right, I mean, I'm very inspired, so I'm ready to
dig in to learn a little bitmore about your amazing story.
So, you grew up from themulti-generation real estate
family and started learning thebusiness as early as in middle
school.
How did those early experiencesshape your approach to
(02:19):
entrepreneurship and leadershiptoday?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so thanks for that question.
So yeah, my father was adeveloper, mostly single family
luxury homes, Someone who woulddig holes or level ground or
(02:59):
operate as sort of like a gopheror go to shops and pick up
toilets and such Something thatyou would have a day and more of
a day labor or do characterbuilding sort of things.
I would say, and but it wasgreat pay for for someone of my
age and not not a job I wouldhave been able to get otherwise.
(03:22):
And I think what I learned wasthat during that time which is
something I learned from a lotof early jobs was that it was
not something I really wanted todo long term.
I didn't want to do that job.
It was very hard work, longhours up very, very early.
I would get up.
I had the pleasure of mygrandfather would work with us.
He would operate sort of as aforeman on the job and so him
and I would wake up very I wouldwake up very early.
He would pick me up before thesun was up and we would drive,
(03:43):
you know, sometimes up to twohours from where we live to
where the job was.
Got there, um and uh, worked,uh, essentially directly with my
grandfather or for him.
He didn't do any of the uh, thework part of it.
He would sort of just sit andmake sure people showed up and
and did their work and uh, I, uh, and then we would work from,
say, seven in the morning tothree Uh.
(04:04):
One of the benefits was that wedid end the day a little
earlier just because we werestarting so early.
But I think largely I learnedthat I did learn a lot about
construction and learn a lotabout the value of hard work and
I learned a lot about how tomanage projects, things like
that, but generally, I think,learned that those types of
(04:27):
projects were not where I wasgoing to find my niche.
It wasn't going to be the thingthat I did.
So it gave me good background.
It gave me good experience tolearn how those projects operate
, how to complete certain typesof construction, how to think
about what something could befrom just nothing.
But that context I did takewith me to my career today.
(04:50):
But I spent a lot more time onmore of the leadership, the team
building, the systems design,and I leave the project
management and the constructionmanagement to people who are
better suited to that sort offollow through, attention to
detail and project managementsort of activities.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, that's great.
That's a lot of work for amiddle schooler, but great yeah
yeah.
So, as a founder for EON andCIO at Carbon, how did you
juggle the operational demandsof leading two companies while
staying present with your family?
(05:31):
It might be really challengingit might be really challenging.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, it's very challenging.
So, you know, in Carbon I havea partner he's the CEO, his name
is Cody and so we have a great,amazing team under us and that
(06:01):
work with us to execute and runour properties, find and operate
new deals, and so you know Ihave to.
It's a testament to a greatteam that we're able to do
everything that we are able todo.
As it relates to Eon, we'rereally focused on educating and
bringing people through ajourney of trying to figure out
where they're going to fitinside of the real estate world,
from their first deal to theirhundredth deal, whatever that
might look like.
And so we're looking to educatethem, help them, coach them and
(06:23):
potentially help them buildthat business from scratch, if
that's something they're lookingto do.
And so the businesses aresomewhat complimentary.
They are adjacent to each other, they all exist within the
housing world and we're allultimately just trying to
provide, you know, great resultsfor clients, whether it be on
the single family side or, inthe case of carbon, a much
(06:45):
larger assets that can be, youknow, 10, 20, 30, $50 million
each.
And then, so far as on thefamily side, you know, I do my
best to keep the.
I have an office outside of myhome, so I do my best to try to
keep work at the office and,when I go home, be as present as
(07:05):
possible.
I would say that I'm not always100% at that.
I do my very best.
But sometimes there'sdefinitely a bleeding of worlds
between the professional and thepersonal and I tend to have a
very busy day on calls andvarious activities.
So sometimes I get home andrealize, oh, I didn't do this, I
(07:27):
didn't do that, I didn't closeoff that loop and I didn't tie
this off, and so there can be alittle bit of a wind down period
and kind of like a transitionperiod that's necessary, be a
little bit of a wind down periodand, you know, kind of like a
transition period that'snecessary, um, that, um that.
That can be frustrating, Ithink, for the family that I'm
not as present that I as Ishould be, and so what I try to
do is either leave the phone inthe car and when I get home, or
(07:47):
leave it in the laundry room andthen just, uh, try to kind of
like COVID, you know you tookoff all your, you know you came
home, you took off all yourclothes or whatever, and you
know then.
So it's kind of like that, it'ssort of like a sanitization and
then kind of come inside, andthen you know all the kids are
dying to see me by the time Iget home, so as as is my wife,
and so I try to give them asmuch attention as I can.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I love the idea of sanitization.
Maybe I should try to come homefrom work, but lovely idea.
Really makes sense, though, sothat when we go and present
ourselves to the family, theyreally feel that we are
(08:30):
committed to them for the timethat we are there, and that is
really important in building avery healthy family.
So, thank you, that was areally great tip building a very
healthy family.
So thank you, that was a reallygreat tip.
You have worked with top tierfinancial institutions like
Goldman Sachs, jp Morgan,merrill Lynch.
How did that experienceactually shape your approach?
(08:51):
There is always lesson learnedfrom organizations.
There are always lessonslearned from the experiences
from personal life, and you havea father who is an entrepreneur
himself, so how did that allshape the way you think, the way
(09:11):
you strategize and the way youhandle the things around?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah.
So if I start, I guess, withthe corporate experience and how
that affected me or how I bringthat into my business today, I
started my career so I had myundergrad in finance and I moved
from there.
I worked through the analystprogram at JP Morgan in York and
(09:37):
for their fixed income desk ininvestment management, and I
think that job is very much likeyou would see in the movies or
on TV shows.
I worked on a trading desk lotsof computer screens, bloomberg
terminals, everyone's yelling ateach other trading securities
and things like that and it wasa very high-paced, high-stress
(09:58):
environment, long hours, and soI think what I learned?
A couple of things I learned,and really it was based on
mentors, having bosses thathelped me understand these
things, helped me understandthese things, and one of them
was that you know, in in I maybe, a lot of jobs, but certainly
(10:24):
in investment management and onwall street there was an
intense focus on gettingeverything done that sort of the
day it was assigned becausethere was usually some sort of
client deadline, some sort ofdeadline that we were trying to
hit.
So I would frequently be workingon things that had to get done
by the end of the day and theywere assigned that day.
So you sort of had to, no matterwhat.
You kind of got to this pointwhere anything that you started
(10:47):
you knew you could get done inthe same day, even if that day
meant you started it at.
You know you got it assigned attwo in the afternoon and you
may have to work till six in themorning the next day to get it
done.
You know you just would justkeep going until it was done and
there was no, there was nooption to not get it done in the
amount of time, because theclient may be coming in at 10 AM
(11:07):
and you had to have it ready bysix because your MD was going
to come in and look at the workand give you comments, and then
you needed time to make theedits and then have them look at
it again and then, uh, finalizeit, then bring it to the
printer, have it printed, makesure it was printed right, look
at every page, check it before.
So there's just, and then allthat stuff usually would have
you have like minutes, uh, thatyou know, from the client's
(11:30):
perspective it was like this hasbeen ready forever, but on our
side it was a flurry of activityand it was almost um.
So I think just having thatexpectation that you can kind of
get anything done, uh, as as inthe time that you have allotted
, I think, is a really powerfulum, just skill or like habit to
develop inside of yourself.
And um, the second would be, uh, in the same vein, uh, my one
(11:55):
of my bosses, her name Margaret,would always tell me that we
had to have like an intenselevel of paranoia as it related
to client meetings, and so therewas this sort of unspoken rule
that you know you can make oneerror and that would be okay.
You wouldn't be okay, but itwould be okay.
The second time it happenedyou'd be fired, and so you
(12:23):
basically you know you only hadhad one.
It was like a two-strike system.
So if you ever, if there was ain a client setting right, if a
client saw an, error you got onefreebie.
If a client saw a second error,that would be it.
You'd be fired and you thatwould be the end of your career
at the company.
And so, um, that intenseparanoia was built around that
rule.
It was that, okay, well, we hadto make sure that you had a
sufficient maker checker system.
You made sure that whateverwork you were putting out there,
(12:45):
your draft was 100% error free,and so I think that intense
level of paranoia is somethingthat you know.
Really I bring to um, you knowmy businesses now and help uh.
Hopefully I'm not as uh hard onmy teams as maybe I was uh
treated uh earlier in my career,but I think that there is some
(13:07):
benefit to having that level ofexpectation of yourself and of
your people to make sure that,um, if, if you know, especially
in the investment business whereyou're managing other people's
money, uh, or their projects,their livelihoods, uh, you know,
especially in the investmentbusiness where you're managing
other people's money or theirprojects, their livelihoods, you
know an error in a footnotedoesn't seem like a big deal,
but you know, if that's wrong,then you know maybe the big
stuff is wrong.
So I always you know it startswith the small stuff and how you
(13:29):
do.
One thing is how you doeverything, I guess.
So those would be some of thebig lessons that I've learned
from that intense period of mylife.
I don't know if I think you hada couple other questions in
there, but I'll pause there andjust see where other stuff you
have there.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That's a great point and that's what most of the
people misunderstand about beingan entrepreneur or being a
person in the leadership rolearound their accountability
towards the team.
Being a person in theleadership role around their
accountability towards the team,and sometimes they feel like
it's a very high expectations,but they don't understand that
you're trying to bring the bestfrom them right.
That is a true leadership byitself and the way I understood
(14:09):
it.
You have been trained, you havelearned your lessons from your
experience and you're trying touse those valuable principles on
your team and it's going toenhance the performance and it's
going to enhance thepersonalities within your team
(14:29):
for their own better good.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, for their own good yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, definitely, yeah for the wrong good.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Let's move on to some of thecore things that you do right
now.
You have successfully led thedistressed property acquisitions
and turnarounds.
What are the key lessons thatyou have learned?
Navigating the deals thatdidn't go according to your plan
(14:56):
?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, yeah, so I would say the number one thing
specifically to this question isreally about having great
people in the right seats.
So we run all our businesses ona couple of different operating
systems, depending on whichbusiness, but we either EOS or
(15:18):
IDX, us or IDX, but in bothoperating modalities,
essentially everything is basedon having the right people in
the right seats doing the rightactivities, and so, whenever
there's been a project thathasn't gone to plan yes,
sometimes the Federal Reservewill increase interest rates or
something will happen that youreally can't control, but you
(15:41):
have the right people in theright seats.
They're going to know how tonavigate that situation, and so
you can't be everywhere, andwhat you can do, though, is do
your best to hire the rightpeople, train them properly and
give them the coaching they needto be able to, you know, make
decisions to solve problems in away that would be consistent
(16:02):
with what we would want them todo, and, ultimately, they will
naturally come to the sameconclusions that you would want
them to if you've hired themproperly and you've trained them
properly.
So I would say that's thebiggest thing, the biggest lead
metric that I see on projectswhere we're doing multi-million
dollar construction projects onlarger assets and just managing
(16:25):
those properties.
It's typically that there'ssomeone missing from the team,
like hey, we're missing aleasing agent, so no wonder
we're unable to lease the unitsat the bottom we want.
Or someone is in the role thatis just not the right fit, and
sometimes that's because we'veinherited that person from an
acquisition and we just haven'tturned that position over yet.
Or maybe they becomedisillusioned with the job, or
(16:47):
maybe there's some personalissue that's going on that we
need to dig into.
Maybe they are the right person.
They're just not showing up atthat moment in the position
because of something that'sgoing on, or it just sometimes
it takes a little bit of timefor things to turn around.
So, but again, I think it allcomes down to really great
people investing in those people, paying them really well.
Um, I, in my experience ofpaying extra, uh, paying more
(17:11):
than market.
Um, the benefit of paying morethan the market rate is that
people aren't constantly lookingfor other positions Uh, they're
focused on the job, they'refocused on being successful.
Looking for other positions,they're focused on the job,
they're focused on beingsuccessful.
And if you can create a rewardsystem that continues to
incentivize them around the KPIs, the metrics that you want, the
(17:34):
outcomes that you're desiringand that are important for the
success of the project.
They will go above and beyondto achieve those, and that's
what I've seen be the mostsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And it kind of summarizes one of the key
foundation for any successfulorganization, which are three.
Usually, we say there are threeP's right Product, people and
process.
And it's amazing that you havetaught the importance of people
(18:06):
and keeping them motivated andkeeping them properly trained so
that they can do their jobsproperly, and it's not every
time we come into a conversationthat we talk about that aspect
of it.
So again, thank thank you,Michael, for bringing that up.
We are going to wrap thisforecast by asking the last two
(18:28):
amazing questions that willcover the key takeaway.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Great.
So for someone listening who'sraising a family and thinking
about starting a business ormaking their first real estate
investment, what's one mindsetshift that can help them to move
forward with confidence?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
shift they can use to move forward, if they wanted to
start a business or take theleap to entrepreneurship, is
it's sort of like, just go forit.
I don't know if you can reallyjust I know that sounds a little
bit cliche, maybe, but I thinka lot of people get tied up in
this.
A lot of internal objectionsaround I need to know more, I
(19:24):
need to have more time, I needto wait till the time is right,
till the economy is better, andreally the best time to start is
yesterday, and you know whetherthat may mean you know a small
step in the right direction andyou're going to build that habit
every single day, movingtowards where you want to go,
and it may, you know.
You look back five years fromnow.
(19:45):
You're going to be surprisedwhere you are.
I'm certainly surprised where Iam.
I only left corporate America, Iguess, a little bit less than
10 years ago.
We've done some pretty amazingthings, and so I think you just
have to be willing to take thatleap of faith and know that
you're going a little bit intothe abyss and you're not going
to know everything.
You're not You're, and you'reonly going to learn it by doing
(20:07):
it.
So just take, take the leap offaith and know that you know you
have everything you need insideof you, and then you'll the
rest of you, learn as you go.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
OK, that is very motivational.
I got inspired right now.
So thank you, Michael.
One last question before wewrap up this podcast Looking
ahead, what's your vision, notjust for your companies, but for
how you want to shape thefuture of real estate and
entrepreneurship for the nextgeneration?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Sure, yeah.
So I thought you were going tosay shape the.
Yeah, I thought you were goingto say, not just for my business
but also for my family.
But I'll take the, I'll do this, I'll do the whole question
that you asked.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So yes, and please definitely include the family.
That's important.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, yes, so I'll answer the first part and then
I'll put my little bit in thereat the end.
So, yeah, I would say, you knowwe've been able to acquire a
lot of property.
Our goal with our businesses isto provide clean, safe,
affordable housing for, you know, kind of middle income
workforce housing.
(21:17):
Throughout the United States wesee that as a continued growing
need to have affordable, safehousing and there's a huge
shortage, and I think we can doour part as operators of real
estate not just financiers, butalso people who we own and
operate our own properties andso we feel like we can become a
top 100 owner in the country andprovide really safe housing and
(21:41):
hopefully improve thereputation of landlords and
private equity individuals.
I think that you know thecurrent environment is such that
perhaps we don't have the best,or there's a there's a
perception that we don't havethe best intentions as it
relates to providing housing tofolks, and I believe that there
is a private sector solution toproviding housing in America and
(22:04):
if we don't do a good enoughjob doing that, there will be a
government solution, and so Ifeel like, as on the private
side, as a capitalist, I want tobe able to provide a great
solution and that people can behappy living in our properties
and they can build theirfamilies, they can feel safe
there, they can send their kidsto school and enjoy the
(22:26):
playgrounds and the pools andall the amenities that we have.
So that's what my goal isoverall like.
In that way, from a numbersperspective, I want to get to
the point where we're acquiringa billion dollars of property
every single year.
It's not a again, we have toacquire property that's
consistent with our mandate,with our strategy, that makes
sense financially and makessense for our investors.
(22:49):
But you know, getting to thatgoal will require us to continue
to build strong teams, putgreat processes in place and
have a great product that youhad talked about, the three P's.
So having a great product,which is the apartment at the
end of the day, uh, for folks.
So, uh, now the other piece ofit, the family piece.
My goal with my family is, um,you know, I would love to be, I
(23:14):
love to live healthy a long time, uh, and be 100 years old, uh,
and sitting, uh, all of mychildren, all of their children,
all of their children at dinnerfor my birthday.
So that's what I like and I,from my, from my perspective of
I've done that.
It means that all my childrenspeak to me, which is, I think,
(23:34):
in today's environment is notnecessarily a given.
It means that you know I've gota, you know a bountiful family
of all of my, you know all mydescendants and I can enjoy that
.
At that point I'll be 100.
So you know, I don't know howwell I'm moving around at that
point, but hopefully well enoughto be able to do that.
So that's my goal.
It's something that I saw withmy grandfather got to do that,
(23:58):
and so I looked at that and Isaid, wow, and I was.
You know, he's passed away sometime ago now, but I was a
teenager at that point and Idon't think I really understood
how rare it is to have you know,all your kids, all your
grandkids, et cetera, in oneroom and celebrating, you know,
(24:18):
with you.
So that's my goal and I thinkthat it's an outcome of a
successful life from myperspective.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, and that is very great to hear, michael.
So I'm so glad that you havesaid it, because there have been
situations where people get somuch stuck in entrepreneurship
journey that they really losethe part of the value of family
(24:46):
and, as Michael has said, bothfamily life and entrepreneurship
are very valuable to have asuccessful and content life.
So thank you, michael, onceagain for joining on our podcast
, and you have an amazing dayahead thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I appreciate you having me on.
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