May 27, 2026 • 55 mins
In this episode of Just Gonna Send It, Jim Belosic sits down with Barrett Ames, robotics engineer, startup founder, former NASA researcher, and CTO of REK, a humanoid robot fighting league inspired by Real Steel. Barrett shares his journey from building robots as a kid to working on NASA’s Valkyrie and Robonaut 2 projects, earning a PhD in AI and robotics at Duke, and launching startups focused on construction automation and entertainment robotics.
The conversation explores the realities of building hard tech, lessons learned from failed startups, the future of humanoid robots, and why competition and destruction might actually accelerate innovation. From DARPA challenges and space robotics to robot MMA fights in San Francisco, this episode is packed with stories about curiosity, risk taking, and learning through building.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
My mom told me no, and then I just went and blew
shit up.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Who why don't we race missiles?
That sounds a like right?
Like we have cruise missiles.
Why don't we race them?
SPEAKER_05 (00:08):
There's no replacement for displacement.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
Let's build robots to build homes.
Shit.
Well, now I need my questions.
We met because we were swordfighting with meter sticks and
he broke my phone.
SPEAKER_05 (00:20):
I think I'm unk.
I was told that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (00:33):
Well, welcome to our our uh I was gonna call it a
shitty podcast, but it's not ashitty podcast.
Producer Dom is sitting rightacross from me.
She looks really fucking hard atthis.
So um it's a great podcast.
I'm the shitty part.
How about how about welcome toour great podcast with a shitty
host?
There we go.
Jeez, sorry, you're doing agreat job, Dom.
Welcome to the Jeff Canadapodcast.
(00:54):
I'm your host, Jim Belosic.
I am joined today by a veryspecial guest, Barrett Ames, um,
of all kinds of roboticsbackground and cool stuff.
So we're gonna talk about Rec,and we're gonna talk about
Botbuilt, we're gonna talk aboutNASA, we're gonna talk about
Duke and who knows what else,yeah?
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
Okay, cool game.
Welcome to the show.
Um shit.
Well, now I need my questions.
Okay, so I shouldn't have likeintroduced that way.
All right, so so on the pod,we're we're basically kids call
it the pod?
Or what do we call it?
The pod, is that's okay?
Okay, I don't want to be uhcringe or boomer.
(01:36):
Yeah, I I think I'm unk.
I was told that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yep.
I think we're all unk at thispoint.
SPEAKER_05 (01:44):
Uh so the the point of this uh this pod is I don't
know, just kind of we have a lotof listeners that are you know
young people just getting out ofcollege or they're in high
school or whatever, and they'relike, hey, how do I how do I do
what you guys are doing?
You know, how do you create acool business?
How do you get a cool job?
(02:04):
How do you make cool stuff?
And uh the reason I have guestslike you on is so that we can
say like we didn't know what thehell we were doing, we just
figured it out.
Here's where we are today.
Um it'll make you feel a littlebit better about whatever path
you happen to be on.
So uh long way of saying, like,let's start with your
background.
Like, tell me where you grew up,what were you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Yeah, I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, in the middle
of suburbia, uh, like classicsuburbia, uh like pinnacle of
man's hubris, live in the middleof a desert, have uh, you know,
fake lake, uh, so that way wecan all pretend we're not
actually in the middle of thedesert.
Um, but yeah, no, I I always wasalways building or designing
(02:52):
stuff.
Uh I looked for it because myparents just moved out of out of
my out of the house that I grewup in, and they sent me
everything.
Like they they got rid ofnothing, right?
So they sent me everything frommy room.
And there I was looking for onebook that it was my invention
book, right?
Like that just had all of mychildhood scrawlings.
(03:12):
Uh but the I I couldn't find itthis afternoon, but but there's
like you know, ray guns inthere.
I had like missile racing.
Like, who why don't we racemissiles?
That sounds right, like right,like we have cruise missiles.
Why don't we race them?
Uh Palmer, if you're listening,cruise missile races.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_05 (03:32):
We will we will be uh the first to sponsor.
This sounds incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Uh so you know, just just all sorts of stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (03:41):
Okay, so I don't know.
I guess it sounds like um if youwant to get into robotics as an
adult, you should probablyalready have like a invention
book when you're what five orsix years old.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah, so like one morning when I was seven, I came
running downstairs and I wasjust like, Mom, I want to blow
stuff up.
Uh and she said, You're going torobot camp, right?
Like, that's the like I could Icould have just been blowing
stuff up all summer, but insteadshe like she channeled it,
right?
Um so it's it's uh there theredoes need you you you need
(04:16):
mentors, right?
SPEAKER_05 (04:17):
Yeah, my mom told me no, and then I just went and
blew shit up.
So yeah, and then I got introuble.
So yeah, that's that's that'spretty cool to have parents that
encourage it.
So I mean, and she knew thatrobot camp existed.
Well, first of all, yeah, robotcamp existed, and we're you're
in Phoenix, right?
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she uh she had been puttingme in all sorts of camps, right?
Like just to like get out ofhere, kid.
Uh so no, she she I think shehad already picked it out, uh,
and this was just the liketrigger that like the
information.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (04:53):
Yeah.
And then and then how manysiblings?
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
I have four siblings, but they're all way
older than me.
So my brother, my brother's 20years older than me.
He's uh he's a a searinstructor, which is the like if
you're gonna go behind enemylines, you have to get taught
how to how to deal with uhtorture and search and rescue
and all of that.
And he was the instructor forthat.
(05:16):
So like my first memory of mybrother is him picking me up.
He's massive, he's a ginormoushuman being, uh, picking me up
and putting me like an inch anda half away from the ceiling fan
blades, uh, which is just likelike just uh like everything
about my brother collapsed into30 seconds.
SPEAKER_04 (05:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
And then I've got three sisters uh who are are all
like uh additional mothers,right?
Like they're they're uh the thegreatest example I have of this,
I was I was at the uh at thehospital with my mom recently,
and uh my I was handing offbetween my sister and me, and
(05:59):
we're changing the contactinformation, and I the lady was
like, Oh, how do you spell yourname?
And my sister answered before Icould, right?
Which I was just like, I'm I'm36, I know how to spell my name.
You don't have to spell it forme.
Uh so like that's you know, I'vegot a lot of a lot of mothers.
SPEAKER_05 (06:17):
Yeah, so uh so it sounds like you know, especially
with the age difference, um,you're running around telling
your mom that you want to blowstuff up, and she's like,
awesome, let's uh let you're theyou're the last one, you're the
youngest.
It's just like driving me crazy.
Let's go put you into camps.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_05 (06:36):
Uh so how was how was robot camp?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
It was good.
I mean, like there are twothings that I remember from it.
Uh one was like it was cool tobuild, it was Lego robots,
right?
It was like very earlymindstorms that and and MM had
just come out.
So it was like I learned aboutMM uh and and Legos at the same
time, and uh, you know, LegoMindstorm at the same time.
SPEAKER_05 (06:58):
Okay, that's a pretty good camp, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (07:00):
Yeah.
And then that led you to you youdid uh first robotics in high
school, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yep, yeah, did first, uh, which was which was
an awesome experience.
Just uh, you know, uh the thehigh school that I went to was
very hands-off, uh, and it wasjust like here's money and
space, go build stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (07:24):
Uh oh, as far as like the first team right when
okay, I was like, I was thinkingabout high school in general.
I was like, at no point myEnglish teacher would be like, I
mean, whatever.
Like, what high school?
Yeah, I was getting kind ofjealous of Phoenix there.
Okay.
So uh so hands off.
Okay, so what was what was thatlike?
(07:45):
I mean, did you always want towork with robots?
I mean, because you still do,like, we'll get into like rack
and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah.
I think so.
In high school, I I did have tolike make a decision between
like robotics, and at the time Iwas also working in a genetics
lab doing like helpinggenetically modified mice so
they have asthma.
And like they both consumed alot of time, right?
(08:10):
And at one point, I just sat, Iactually sat down with my math
teacher at the time and waslike, I I don't know which way
should I go, man.
Uh, and we just had aconversation about it.
Uh, and at the end of it, I waslike, I'm gonna go build robots.
Uh and and he was smart, likewicked smart dude.
Uh, he was smart enough to belike, yeah, yeah, yeah, you like
(08:32):
mechanical engineering andyou're pretty good at it, but
you need to go study uh computerscience and AI.
Uh like the that that's thefuture of it.
Um so good good advice early.
SPEAKER_05 (08:45):
Yeah, and uh he could like kind of see the
future a little bit too.
That's that's pretty cool.
Um I had a really good questionnow, it just fell oh shit.
Okay, so uh otherwise, like howwas high school for you?
Did you like high school or didyou like parts of it or hate it
or yeah, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
High school is like uh I mean uh parts of it were
awesome, right?
Like I got my my my best manworking at what uh I met in in
high school.
We like I don't know, highschool's weird being being you
know, we we met because we weresword fighting with meter
(09:25):
sticks, and he broke my phone.
Uh and we've been friends eversince.
Uh so it he was the best man atmy wedding.
We worked at NASA together, likejust all sorts of crazy stuff.
Um so I don't know.
Well, I and like you just get acouple of good friends and and
like I don't know, the rest ofit's just kind of stuff you
(09:47):
grind through because you haveto.
SPEAKER_05 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, same.
Um I think there's there's a lotof people where high school was
like the best place in theworld, and then that's kind of
like peak of their life.
And then I talked to a lot ofpeople where high school wasn't
that great, and then they'redoing so much better now, and
there's just a blip.
So anyway, if if you hate highschool right now, uh don't
worry, it gets way better.
(10:11):
Yeah, when my like one friendwasn't there, I'd have to like
go hang out in the library.
It's I'd hate it.
Yes, uh so you're you're doing abunch of robots and stuff.
Um in high school, you're doingfirst, uh, you're getting your
thumb broken with meter sticks.
Yep.
Uh and then college is Cornell,right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_05 (10:32):
Okay, so how did I mean that's that's a hell of a
school.
I've I've heard just becauseI've I don't know any schools,
but I've heard of that one.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (10:39):
How'd you how'd you get in?
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Uh how did I get in?
Yeah, I mean I don't I don'tknow.
Like uh first and and and youknow good grades.
SPEAKER_05 (10:51):
Uh and uh you think robotics like today, um, do you
think robotics would help youknow kids get into uh into a
school?
Oh definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
I think I think I mean a lot of academia is
becoming ever moreinterdisciplinary because the
the the ivory towers are kind ofat their limits, right?
Like, like sure, you can gostudy math and and just do pure
math all the time.
Um, but a lot of the at least inthe engineering fields, it's
(11:24):
it's all right, let's take thesetwo things that nobody else has
taken and put smash themtogether.
Let's see what's cool.
SPEAKER_05 (11:30):
So we we talk a lot about you know uh just hiring
here at Send Cut Send.
It's like it's great if peoplehave an example of what they do,
like if they have a portfolio,if they can show some photos on
their phone, they're like, hey,check out this thing that I
built.
Um is that even possible with acollege application?
Like, can you you can writedown, hey, I did first robotics
and here's my accomplishments.
(11:51):
Is it is it possible todemonstrate you know to uh an
administr admissions board, umhey, here's some cool shit that
I did.
Like what are some hacks youthink?
Sorry, I'm just thinking.
Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
No, no, no, definitely.
Like um, I was just helping akid write his his college app,
excuse me, his collegeapplications, and like we just
included his portfolio website.
Um, that's smart.
Um you can all also just likedescribe it uh and uh that that
that helps too.
(12:24):
Um my nephew had a portfoliowebsite um that worked for him.
Uh so yeah, no, I think you candefinitely show off.
SPEAKER_05 (12:33):
So how is how is Cornell?
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Cornell was like Cornell's an interesting place.
Uh it's like 360, 350 days ofclouds a year coming from
Phoenix, where it's like fivedays of clouds a year.
Uh so like I was doing summersin Phoenix and winters in
(12:57):
upstate New York.
Uh like worst weather transitionever.
Learned a ton.
Uh uh made some really goodfriends in my fraternity.
Um and you know, I uh itdefinitely trained me.
Uh I was surrounded by geniuses,right?
(13:18):
Like the guy, the guy who's incharge of uh Starship's uh
navigation system, like all ofit, uh, was sitting next to me
in physics.
And like I'm really happy that Igot to know him uh and that he's
in charge of Starship because hejust crushed me in physics
constantly, right?
And I was like, God, I'm stupid.
(13:38):
Uh but like uh he's he's justwicked smart.
Um so no, it it's like it's coolto meet people like that.
Um and and you know, just justbe around ambitious people.
The Cornell like gets this repfor being like really cutthroat,
(13:59):
and I never experienced that.
Like uh maybe it is in in otherschools, but in engineering and
CS, like whatever.
We're we're all we all have thesame enemy, it's the problem
set.
Uh and and you know, everybody'sjust trying to help each other
uh understand the problem.
I I'm also like uh deeply like Iwant to do it myself as much as
(14:25):
possible, right?
So maybe that's why I didn't uhexperience the cutthroateness.
SPEAKER_05 (14:30):
When when you were going to Cornell, did you go
there specifically becauseyou're like, yeah, I want to
continue in robotics, or wereyou just like uh it's college
and I'm gonna do college here?
Or do you have a master plan?
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah, so I actually looked at a bunch of schools,
um, and like I didn't even Iwent to MIT, looked at their
robotics, and was like, what arethese scrubs doing?
Um and so I didn't even apply toMIT.
SPEAKER_04 (14:53):
Uh I've never heard anyone trash MIT like that.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Right?
Like uh and like in hindsight,uh I was clearly like uh
misjudging some of their stuff,right?
Like the thing that I distinctlyremember, like I went to a lab
and there was a there was anaxle in one of their robots, and
they just like didn't finish thecut, right?
Like they just snapped it off,and there was just like a jagged
(15:21):
edge, and I was like, who what?
Just like finish the cut or likeget a file and finish it off,
like right, like that that'swhat that that's what pissed me
off and shoved me over the edge.
And I was like, Nope, take themoff the list.
SPEAKER_05 (15:35):
A bunch of hacks over at MIT.
I'd like to say that uh my viewsdo not reflect uh both of those.
We love MIT.
Right.
We like all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Um yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (15:47):
So no, that but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
So I mean, clearly, MIT has done a bunch of cool
stuff.
Russ, uh a bunch of my PhD workis actually building off of Russ
Tedrake from MIT.
Songbei Kim has done a bunch ofcool stuff, Ben Katz, like the
the MIT is uh like clearly avery good school.
SPEAKER_05 (16:06):
Well, yeah, I I was gonna say we were talking about
Cornell, but I was gonna gofurther because the then you
went to Duke.
SPEAKER_02 (16:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (16:13):
Uh and and because you are like really good at
school.
Uh I guess.
SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
I guess.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (16:19):
Because Cornell for Robotics and then Duke uh to get
your your doctorate in AI androbotics.
Okay, so so Cornell gets you,you know, your um Yeah, so I did
I did uh yeah, I was likemaster's.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah, I did I did a McI did uh I made up my own
degree, which was one reasonthat I went to Cornell.
Uh the founding founding mottoof Cornell uh is any person any
study.
And at the time there weren'tany robotics programs.
Um so I picked Cornell for tworeasons.
One was there were a ton ofrobotics project teams that I
could just join.
(16:54):
Um, and then the any person anystudy let me build my own
curriculum.
So I did I did a bunch of AI androbotics, and I did dynamics,
statics, material synthesis, youknow, got in the machine shop.
Cornell has an amazing machineshop for a university.
(17:14):
Um and so I put those twotogether and left out things
that I I didn't think I was evergoing to need in robotics, like
operating systems.
Like, who cares?
It's there, I'm gonna use it, Idon't need to understand it.
Um, so that that's that was thebig reason why I ended up going
to Cornell.
SPEAKER_05 (17:34):
Okay, and then and then after you're done, you're
like, okay, I could get a job,or maybe not, let me go to Duke
for a little while, or how'dthat happen?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Right, yeah.
So so I actually did my firststartup right out of undergrad.
The advice that I got out ofCornell was you're young and
dumb, go find a mentor.
Um, and I was like, okay, cool.
So I went to went went back toPhoenix, did uh an anti-piracy,
as in like, let's take on realpirates, uh like ocean faring
(18:05):
pirates.
Um, as so I I helped build a uhcannon launched drone.
SPEAKER_05 (18:11):
Why are they doing this in Phoenix?
That's not a lot of pirates inPhoenix, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
I know, I know, I know.
This story does not end well forme.
Uh I I make it about like fourand a half months.
We make one really big sale ofthis drone, um, and uh it was
like$10,000,$15,000.
And the guy I I had been workingfor free, living out of my
parents, uh, thought we werelike equal partners.
(18:39):
Uh, and I was like, all right,cool, like I need some money,
bro.
Uh, and he was like, here's ahundred bucks.
Oh and I was like, all right,I've made a mistake here.
SPEAKER_05 (18:49):
Yeah, to anyone listening, uh nothing exists
unless it's in writing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (18:55):
Yeah, you can have a lot of handshakes, you can have
a lot of other stuff, get it inwriting.
Be very, very clear.
I was just telling my son this.
My son is into photography, andand he was uh he's like, Oh,
these guys invited me to go likephotograph this event or
whatever.
I'm like, how much are yougetting paid?
And he's like, Oh, I don't know,but I'm gonna go do it.
And I was like, No, you need tolike either tell them how much
(19:16):
you charge or negotiate a fee,and then they can either tell
you yes or no.
And he didn't do it, and I thinkhe ended up getting like a you
know 50% off coupon to thefrozen yogurt place.
Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe youneed those lessons, I guess.
Right, right.
Can you tell me about the drone?
Okay, how does uh tell me howthe drone uh gets rid of the
pirates?
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
Yeah, so there's this really uh shipping like uh
commercial shipping has thisinteresting problem where when
you're going throughpirate-infested waters like
Somalia, like around the coastof Somalia, uh, you want uh
private military contractors.
(19:57):
Private military contractorsdon't want to be subordinate to
a ship captain, but ship captainwants to control the entire
ship.
Uh and so we built this drone asa way to empower ship captains
without giving them privatemilitary contractors, because
also like the in a bunch ofports in the world, weapons are
just illegal.
SPEAKER_05 (20:17):
Yeah, I was gonna say like the main problem is you
can't have a bunch of guns onboats, like unless you're the
Navy.
So that's yeah, step one.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Right.
Which leads to reallyinteresting things there.
Floating armories uh off thecoast of India, which is super
cool.
Uh but but anyways, this droneyou can't have them in the
ports, right?
SPEAKER_05 (20:36):
You can have them on the ship.
Oh, so you just go load up withguns on your way out?
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (20:41):
Oh, this is okay.
This is great.
Yeah, that's that's our nextbusiness.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, floating banks and floatingarmories are uh like a thelian
wet dream, right?
Yeah, just seasteading to itsbest.
Um, but the uh uh guns or bombsor the the the drone had two
options.
(21:05):
One was uh pepper balls.
Uh the other was if you werefeeling a little more
aggressive, you could just crashthe thing into the boat.
Uh because most of the boats areare tiny, and you really just
need to like slow them down fora little bit and you'll get
away.
Um so that was our like notsuper lethal uh uh way of of of
(21:28):
deterring them.
SPEAKER_05 (21:30):
How big is this drone?
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
Uh it's like three and a half, four feet.
SPEAKER_05 (21:36):
Okay, yeah, you don't really want that thing
flying at you, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
No, yeah, yeah.
It was it was pretty fast.
SPEAKER_05 (21:42):
So you so you did this cool project.
You're the designer, developer,mechanical engineer on this
project.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
I did uh all of the controls.
The other guy was in charge oflike aerospace stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (21:55):
Okay, so and then you got your hundred bucks.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Got my hundred bucks, and I actually That ended
up being like uh really usefulum because I got it I got uh
onto the Valkyrie projectbecause I was looking for a job
in October, November, which is aweird time, uh and is also a
time when government's hiring.
(22:19):
Um and so I I was a guy who hadmechanical engineering
experience, computer scienceexperience.
I used Ross, right?
Which like back back in the day,like I started using Ross when
it first came out.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_05 (22:36):
Uh yeah, uh thinking of the clothing store.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
I shop at Ross.
Um, no, it's uh uh the robotoperating system.
So it it's uh there's there's uha nonprofit called Willow Garage
that started in the Bay Area umthat built the PR2 and then
released this middleware thatallowed you to like plug and
play a whole bunch of differentsoftware, right?
(23:02):
Uh and so I immediately startedusing it.
Um and they were looking forpeople with that experience.
Uh, and there was no one withmore experience than than me who
didn't work there.
SPEAKER_05 (23:15):
And you had a hundred bucks, too.
So that's right.
I did have a hundred bucks,yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you mentioned Valkyrieproject.
So what tell tell us uh what theValkyrie project was, like in
Bruce.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Valkyrie was uh you know,DARPA robotics challenge.
Um basically Fukushima nuclearreactor disaster happens.
Um it's the biggest failure ofthe field of robotics to date,
right?
There's like 150 plus robots inthat nuclear reactor that all
(23:48):
tried to go in there and turnthe reactor off.
And none of them could do it.
They all failed, and all theyhad to do was go through a
hallway and press a button.
Um, and they failed for a bunchof different reasons.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And and as a result, like somedude had to give up his life,
right?
In like the grossest, nastiestway ever.
Like nuclear radiation poisoningis just the absolute worst way
to die.
Um, and like we did we he had todo that because we couldn't get
a robot to press a button.
(24:22):
Um, so that's the likemotivating example for the DARPA
Robotics Challenge.
Can we build a robot that canget through all of the various
obstacles that stopped robots sothat way we can press a button
and somebody doesn't have to diethat way again?
SPEAKER_05 (24:38):
Wow.
Okay, and so you were on thatproject or on the project.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Okay, yep, yep.
So now so we went from blanksheet of paper to you know
functioning humanoid bipedalrobot in 18 months.
There's a team of 50 out of thatlab.
Uh you the the founders of noblemachines, persona, uh aptronic,
(25:05):
uh, like a bunch of the bighumanoid players all come out of
out of this lab.
Uh it's it's a it's a cool labto to have been a part of.
SPEAKER_05 (25:15):
Plus, still stay in touch.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
Oh yeah, I was just texting uh one of them today.
That's awesome.
Um and uh the the we also got todo like a bunch of really cool
historic stuff.
Uh like I I've sat in theoriginal Houston control, uh
mission control, like at a desk.
Um we built this, we builtValkyrie in the same clean room
(25:39):
that they built the Apollocapsules.
Uh just like cool stuff.
Uh there's some downsides, likeit's all asbestos and whatnot,
but you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (25:47):
I was gonna say, do they let you smoke at the
Houston control room?
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Like that seems like you don't, you don't, you don't,
you don't have to, it just kindof seeps in.
SPEAKER_05 (25:56):
Okay, yeah.
I assumed it was a requirement.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:59):
Dude, that's cool.
Okay, so okay, so the you havelike all these like little
experiences that kind of buildand build and build.
So after Valkyrie, um then thenwhat's next?
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Then I gotta work on Robonaut 2, which was on the
International Space Station.
Uh super cool robot.
Uh I this won't be true muchlonger, but astronaut time is
roughly$50,000 an hour, and theyspend four to five hours a week
cleaning their rooms.
Um, and so we taught Robonaut todo some some station keeping.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Uh, like like what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Like like like vacuuming.
SPEAKER_05 (26:35):
Oh, do shit, really?
SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um uh which a super cool projectto work on.
It was originally built uhbecause uh astronaut hands in
spacesuits are like the size ofa bratwurst, like each finger is
a bratwurst, and it's it's likebeing inside of a balloon,
right?
So it's like very difficult andyou have no dexterity.
(26:59):
And uh one of my advisors, RobPlatt, figured out early that we
could design a hand that's moreagile uh than a human hand in a
in an astronaut suit.
Um, so that was like the theoriginal thrust of Robonaut 2 is
to do all of the uh EVAs withrobots.
SPEAKER_05 (27:19):
Oh, okay.
This is EVA.
I was picturing them vacuuminginside.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Right.
Oh no, well, so yeah, uh Iwasn't clear there.
The stuff I did was all inside,but the robot was built for the
outside.
SPEAKER_05 (27:31):
Okay, okay, that makes that makes sense.
I was like, why are they inspacesuits when they're
vacuuming inside?
Okay, got it, got it.
Sorry, I'm stupid.
Uh so you you have these amazingopportunities.
Uh and then what, do you wake upone day and you're like, I need
my my PhD?
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_05 (27:49):
Like uh was there like a role, a lull in the job
market or something?
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Or no, no, there was just there's some math that I
wanted to go understand, and Iknew it was gonna take longer uh
than I could like squeeze in onthe sides.
Um and also like NASA, like Iguess the startup culture hadn't
quite fully consumed the worldthat like it has now.
(28:17):
Um and and being at NASA, likecredentials and experience are
very important.
And so there is this like, well,you're only gonna get here if
you have this, right?
And so I was like, all right,cool.
Like I want to go learn thismath.
Uh, I also did like thefinancial ROI and was like, all
right, so like if I have a PhD,I'm gonna get paid this much.
(28:38):
So I gotta do it, gotta do it inlike this amount of time.
SPEAKER_05 (28:42):
So the goal, the goal wasn't to like leave NASA,
it was to like level up so youcan get to a better pay bracket
or whatever.
Like my wife did that when shewas a teacher.
They were like, oh, if you're ateacher plus a master's, then
you get like another you know700 bucks or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
Yeah, it wasn't specifically to stay at NASA,
but just like what I couldfigure out about the field as
you know, somebody poking aroundin it.
SPEAKER_05 (29:05):
Well, uh, can you tell us a little bit about like
the pay at NASA?
Like, are they competitive withstartups or is it like a good
career?
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
You don't have to say that no, no, no, it's fine.
Uh NASA itself, all pay ispublic.
Uh there are public, uheverybody who's a NASA servant
public servant, their pay isonline.
Uh and it it's like very undermarket, uh, with like most
(29:33):
government jobs, but there'sthere's stability there.
Um at least for the most part.
SPEAKER_05 (29:38):
It it seems too like you can leverage that for
something else.
You know, if you're going intothe startup world, but you're
like, hey, I worked at NASA,like that's that's a pretty good
foot in the door, I wouldassume.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yep, yep, for sure.
For sure.
SPEAKER_05 (29:51):
So you you're like, okay, I'm gonna get my my PhD
because I need to be smarter atmath.
Um, and then that's how you endup at Duke?
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So I I talked to a bunch of uhlike when you do a PhD, you
don't really care too much aboutthe school.
There's like you're reallyapplying to work with one
particular person, right?
Uh, and so my my advisor was wasthe only person that I found who
(30:20):
was working on the symbolgrounding problem, which is
basically like how do you takeall of this continuous madness
and boil it down to one onetoken, right?
Like uh turns out like largelanguage models were the answer
here.
Um and uh that I don't know thatthey were trying to do to solve
(30:42):
the symbol grounding problem,but that was the problem that
that uh I was really interestedin because we have all of these
like really nice formal methodsthat are pretty quick for
solving logical problems, and Ineeded some way to connect those
and robots.
Uh because I wanted to be ableto say, like, hey robot, go do X
(31:02):
uh and figure it out, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:04):
Figure it out, like fill in the blanks.
Okay, and that's so kind of likethe early days of of LLM or
whatever.
That was yeah, yeah, okay.
So uh is your is your PhD in inAI?
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
It's in AI and robotics, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:22):
Okay, yeah, dude.
You're like the smartest, mostdown to earth person that I I
think I've met.
Like just like I thanks, thanks,Dave.
You look like you could catch abeer, uh uh, but then you're
doing some super smart shit.
So anyway, I I feel very out ofmy league.
Um as do most people that I knowthat went to Duke, like my
lovely wife.
(31:44):
She she was going to Duke, shecame home for Christmas break,
uh, and I was working for hermom, and her mom is like, You
should take my daughter out.
And I was like, No way, she'slike gorgeous.
So anyway, yeah, Duke people arejust way out of my league.
Anyway, sorry that I had to likefangirl you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
No, no, no, it's it's all right.
So we're we're all fangirlingover you, Jim.
I don't know about you.
You're cutting a lot of sheetmetal, you're doing a lot of
good work, man.
SPEAKER_05 (32:15):
I'm I'm just doing all the dumb shit so that you
guys can go do the smart stuff.
Um okay, so you get your yourPhD.
Are you are you Dr.
Barrett?
Is that can I call you?
Can I call you?
I mean you you can.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Uh you don't you don't have to.
SPEAKER_05 (32:29):
Uh do you oh when you when you book a flight, you
know it gives you the prefix.
Do you uh the doctor on there?
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
No, but if my uh bot built yeah uh at bot built, my
founders, if they if they everbooked tickets for me, would
would put doctor in there.
SPEAKER_05 (32:47):
There's also reverent.
I choose reverent all the time.
That's my favorite one.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
So they on international flights, they'll
actually like call you out onit.
Um what do you mean?
Like they'll say doctor.
SPEAKER_05 (32:59):
Oh, like when you get on, they're like welcome
back.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Domestic, they don't care.
They're right, yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (33:06):
Yeah, cattle.
So so you can't get your doctor,you get your PhD, uh, and then
you go back to NASA and you'relike, hey, pay me more, or what
what's next?
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
I didn't I so uh about uh about a year into doing
the PhD, my wife and I uh made adeeply questionable decision,
which was to buy the shittiesthouse we could find uh and
(33:36):
renovate it.
SPEAKER_05 (33:37):
Was it the shittiest house in the best neighborhood
or just shitty house in general?
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
It was in a good neighborhood.
SPEAKER_05 (33:44):
Okay, because yeah, I like the I like the bad house
in a good neighborhood theory.
SPEAKER_01 (33:47):
Oh, totally, totally.
And the idea was like during theweek I'd burn my brain out on
math and on the weekends, likeI'd restore myself by being a
craftsman, right?
Like, because I've all I'vealways liked building stuff.
And like, no, just like justjust a lot of work.
Uh still one of the bestinvestments I've ever made, but
(34:08):
still uh just a ton of work.
And I was sitting there are youin your living room right now?
SPEAKER_05 (34:13):
Is this progress?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
I know, right?
Like, I'm just I'm socomfortable around uh uh you
know bare stud walls that thisis this is where I work now.
But no, it's uh I I finishedthat job for the most part.
Um and but I was sitting thereone Saturday uh installing
flooring uh and I was justlooking at at a stud wall just
(34:37):
like this, and I was like, man,there's so much regularity here.
Like the methods in robotics aregood enough to do this now.
Why isn't anybody doing this?
Uh and that's how bot builtstarted.
SPEAKER_05 (34:50):
Okay, that's awesome.
Okay, what a good segue.
Um, so so tell us a little bitabout bot built.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Yeah, so we uh I was in my notes.
SPEAKER_05 (35:00):
Good job, good job, Dom.
Uh producer Dom does deepresearch on everyone before they
come in.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so Bot Built was uh you knowan idea that came out of out of
renovation and looking at housesand and realizing also like
looking at my checking bookevery every month and being
like, wow, housing's reallyexpensive.
Um and digging into why is that,right?
(35:28):
And it's like no one no one noone builds anymore.
Um and so we we we thought,well, let's let's get robots to
do that.
And so actually the the firstperson I talked to was uh my
cousin Brent.
Uh he was our CEO.
And he's he's crazy.
He had spent 10 years in specialoperations uh doing, and before
(35:52):
that, had exited a couple ofbusinesses successfully.
Uh so I always I always knewthat I wanted to do a business
with him.
I knew I was gonna learn a tonfrom working with him.
Uh so I was just like, hey,Brent, let's solve homelessness,
let's build robots to buildhomes.
SPEAKER_05 (36:08):
What does your wife say?
Uh was she like for it or likewhat the hell are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
Yeah, no, she was like, Oh yeah, no, if you're
gonna start a business, Brent'slike the only person you should
start a business with.
Um, so no, it it actuallyworked, you know, she was very
supportive of it.
Um she's she's she's uh a saintuh and a wonderful person, and
um I couldn't do uh most of whatI do it if if she wasn't uh as
(36:36):
deeply supportive as as she is.
SPEAKER_05 (36:38):
So I think that's a that's a trend.
Um some of the the mostsuccessful people that we've
talked to uh are are successfulbecause they got a good woman
who's keeping everything, orvice versa.
Right, right.
It takes a pair.
Um yeah.
And is she the same as you orthe opposite of you?
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Uh that's a good question.
SPEAKER_05 (37:01):
Because mine's the opposite.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Like she's definitely not she's definitely
not the opposite.
SPEAKER_05 (37:06):
It may be complementing strengths and
weaknesses, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:09):
Yeah, she like the I think the biggest where we're
the most different is in ourrisk profile.
Like she is not a risk taker,and I am like, you know, white
knuckling every risk I can.
SPEAKER_05 (37:24):
Um so yeah, but if you have two of you, if you have
two risk takers, the whole thinglike it's fun for probably six
weeks and then it all burnsdown, right?
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_05 (37:33):
Yeah, we my wife, my my wife's name is Erin.
Um, we're we're always talkingabout like, man, it'd be kind of
cool to like you know get aprivate pilot's license or
whatever.
And I would be the guy that youwant in the seat, like when
you're flying into a storm andyou got to fly blind and
whatever, but I would neverremember to put gas in it or
(37:54):
like higher pressure.
But she would she would be ableto file the flight plan, she'd
make sure the maintenance wasdone and we had gas and she'd
know the insurance and all thatshit.
But then she'd probably justlike pass out if there was like
an emergency landing.
So um good to have thosecomplimenting strengths and
weaknesses.
So let's say you're like, hey,we're gonna do this business,
(38:15):
and then the did you getfunding, or how did how did you
start?
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Yeah, so we so uh I I I asked Brent about about
doing this business, and he waslike, Hell yeah, let's do it.
That was March of 2020.
Uh oh, yeah.
Uh and I'd love to be for thoseof you young people.
Right, yeah, that's thebeginning of COVID.
SPEAKER_05 (38:38):
Oh my god, yeah, what was it?
Like March 19, I think was likeokay.
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Right.
So uh so I looked over to Brandtand I was like, dude, the
playing field just got level.
Everyone is zooming.
There is no there like personalconnection is now like we could
do this all from North Carolina.
Uh and so we did.
We got into uh Y Combinator.
Uh we raised our first round uhall all all over Zoom.
SPEAKER_05 (39:07):
Would you would you recommend Y Combinator uh for
people who have an idea?
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Yeah, I think it's getting better for hardware.
Um it was when we joined, thereweren't many people who had
joined before and could reallyreally guide the path, like you
know, sh provide any guidancefrom a hardware perspective.
Um but it it's it's you knowit's also growing really fast
(39:36):
and and you know certainly hashad its fair share of
controversies over the lastcouple of couple of years, but
generally like a very good uhcommunity of people that you can
talk to and say crazy shit, andthey'll either like they'll
think about it, they won't justtell you no because you're
crazy.
SPEAKER_05 (39:54):
Yeah, that's cool.
Any any tips for people thatwant to get in?
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
They like all all of the tips uh that are public are
true.
I think that's the biggest pieceof advice.
Like a lot of a lot of thepeople who apply kind of get
into their own head and like, ohwell, they're telling me this
advice, so clearly it's not theright advice.
I need to like go second order.
Nope.
Uh it's just like uh take taketheir advice, um uh and and
(40:26):
listen to it.
Like they they do mostly careabout the people.
Uh the the ideas change sofrequently, the business changes
so frequently that they reallyjust want to see you and your
co-founders are cohesive uh andand and trying to do hard stuff,
right?
And then they'll put you in aroom with a bunch of other
(40:48):
smart, ambitious people, andcool stuff happens, right?
Like, I gotta meet uh PhilJohnson, who's doing the uh the
space data center stuff.
I saw him like a year beforethis whole thing exploded and
everybody was talking aboutspace data centers, and it's
like, dude, this is a geniusidea, right?
Like good luck.
(41:09):
Uh so it like there are just abunch of really cool um
connections that you make andand smart people that you talk
to.
SPEAKER_05 (41:17):
I think the what do you call it, the thread, the
through, what do you call that?
I don't know.
I'm looking Dom.
Uh whatever.
The the connecting thing forthis whole like chat that we've
had for 40 minutes or whateveris like you keep surrounding
yourself with really, reallycool people.
Like everywhere you've gone, youknow, uh you you're surrounding
(41:41):
yourself with with geniuses andrisk takers and all kinds of
stuff, whether that's a youknow, uh NASA or or Duke, when
you go to you know, go learnfrom the best of the best, and
then uh you know, whycombinator, there's like super
smart people that are giving youadvice.
So um if you think you're thesmartest guy in the room, uh
it's not gonna work out well foryou.
(42:03):
But if if you go and appreciateeveryone else's genius, then I I
think it's gonna make you abetter person.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
Yep, yep, yeah, yeah.
I just I you know I just want tolearn.
So I always I I just keep tryingto find other other people to
teach me stuff that I that Ihaven't learned yet.
SPEAKER_05 (42:20):
That's awesome.
So okay, so why combinator?
You you do it over Zoom, you'relike, screw it, we want in.
They cut you a check, and thenyou go start bot built, and
you're you're trying to do likeframing and yeah, well, okay,
yeah.
Yeah, what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
Yeah, so it we started out thinking that like
physical labor was the problemthat we were gonna solve in in
carpentry and and home building.
Um and by the end, we made amassive dent in it.
But a lot along the way, uh, werealized that like a floor plan,
while it looks like it should bea technical drawing, is not.
(42:56):
It's just like made-up lines uhthat are pretty.
Um, my my favorite example thereis like we we we had this chunk
of software that would take afloor plan and turn it into a
CAD model, and then from thatCAD model, the robots would go
and build it, right?
Um and so one time I I processedthis floor plan and the walls
(43:17):
didn't come together, like therewere holes everywhere around the
house.
And I called the architect and Iwas like, What what's going on
with this house?
And they're like, Well, I didn'tlike fractions, so I just got
rid of them.
SPEAKER_04 (43:28):
And it's just like, oh, it's because the framers
don't like fractions either.
SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
Right.
Well, so and that's that's theeven crazier part.
This home had been built 500times, and the framers just
filled it in.
Um and so what we the the thepart of Bop Built that continues
to endure today is the part thatcan take a floor plan, figure
out all of the material that youneed uh by building a CAD model
(43:56):
down to the 32nd of an inch oflumber.
It's basically You you know thisgame, it's the on like online
quoting tool for sheet metal.
We just applied it to a house.
It it takes them manually acouple of weeks to do that
estimate, and we can do it in ina couple of hours.
SPEAKER_05 (44:13):
So was that an exit for you or it was it was an exit
for me.
SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
The company keeps going.
Uh they changed the name tobenchmark.io uh and are are
doing doing this uh you knowplan processing and quoting
part.
Um but that's you know uh thatthat was January this year.
SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
Oh, okay, yeah, just recent because uh because then I
want to talk about like what I'mmost excited about, which is
yeah, right?
Okay, so so you're like cool,I've I've done this bot built
thing, I survived COVID, umfigured out all kinds of weird
stuff with housing and framing.
Uh you you exit, and then you'relike, okay, what am I gonna do
(44:59):
next?
And so that's that's wreck,right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (45:02):
So tell everyone what rec is.
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
Yeah, so rec is real steel in real life.
If you've seen the real steelmovie, but it's it's humanoid
robots with human operators uhthat are doing MMA in the
octagon, right?
Uh, and we want parts to fly.
Like that, we utter carnage.
Uh I I want to single-handedlykeep send cut send open with
(45:27):
spare part orders.
SPEAKER_05 (45:30):
Do the bots get weapons?
Or is it just fists so far?
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
So far, just fists.
Uh uh, we we have we have putkatanas in their hands, uh,
we've put machetes on theirarms.
The end state is is is uh youknow a gundam for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (45:50):
Yeah, it could be anything.
So uh have you ever done like uhfirst robotics is not
necessarily combat robotics likelike battle bots or whatever.
Have you ever done any battlebot stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (45:59):
I I have never a lot of our customers.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, one of one of our guysis actually uh yeah, he's he's
battling today.
Um they're doing thechampionship right now.
Um, so he's he's super into it.
Um and it's you know, I love towatch I I it's one of the things
(46:20):
I watch with my kids is battlebots.
SPEAKER_05 (46:22):
So so wreck is like you're like, dude, I want to I
want to have MMA with robots.
Um I want to see these thingsfight and do cool stuff.
Uh are you just are you justsitting around after you're not
at bot build anymore and you'relike, oh, this is the next
thing?
Like, how did this come about?
SPEAKER_01 (46:41):
Yeah, so one of the one of the things, um well,
there's a couple of things.
One, I started getting on Xagain, uh, which was like, you
know, when I first got onTwitter, it was like, you know,
oh, I just ate a pancake, and Ilike quickly got out of there,
right?
Uh, but then I came back uh uhand people were like talking
(47:07):
about machining and buildingrobots and building airplanes,
building rockets, and it waslike, this is totally different.
Um, and so there's this guy,six, who's like like YOLOing
robots, right?
Like he just spent a bunch ofmoney on a robot, never touched
your robot before, and likebuilding in public with this
(47:29):
robot.
And so like I'm watching him,I'm like sending some messages,
like you know, trying to help,but like I'm busy with Bob
Build, right?
Uh and and then he startsfighting them, and I was like,
oh, that's that's really cool.
Yeah, uh, so I like I he caughtmy eye quite early.
Um, but then one of the thingsthat that I that I've learned
(47:51):
from doing a lot from fromfundraising is like you can have
the best business plan in theworld, um but if you can't get
people excited about it, they'renever gonna go look at your
math, right?
And so as as as Brent was makingme an ever better salesman,
(48:12):
which is really like justdumping psychology into my
brain, I realized that like thehuman form is deeply triggering.
Like we just respond to it whenwe see it, we will attend to it.
And so when I saw, I I wasadmittedly a big hater of Rec at
first, was like, this is stupid,like uh like robots could be
(48:37):
used for such better things.
Uh and then Six was like, dude,have you ever watched Real
Steel?
And I was like, no, I'm fine,I'll go watch it with my kids,
right?
So I watched Real Steel, and Ilike the hits hit way harder
than I expected them to, right?
I was like, this is likewatching a UFC fight.
Um but when a robot getsdestroyed, you just laugh,
(49:01):
right?
When when a human is like passedout on the floor, you're like,
oh, I don't know about this guy.
Maybe we shouldn't have let themdo that.
Um, so there is like uh I don'tknow, a bunch of really cool
psychology around it.
Um and I like the the the thetech is there for for
(49:22):
entertainment and and makingcarnage.
SPEAKER_05 (49:26):
Uh I was gonna say to like today's the worst it'll
be.
You know, humanoids have a longways to go, but they're they're
not bad today, they're gonna geta hell of a lot better.
So you might as well make themfight.
Um so so what's next?
What's next for Rec?
Like what's yeah look like?
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Yeah, so we just announced our first store.
SPEAKER_05 (49:46):
Uh like downtown San Francisco or something, right?
Yep, yep, yep.
Is it gonna actually look likethe image that you posted?
SPEAKER_01 (49:52):
Yeah, so that image that the the like AI generated
parts of that image were thethings inside the store.
The store actually already lookslike that, okay.
Uh which was pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_05 (50:03):
That's a really cool spot.
SPEAKER_01 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's right on Van Ness, which islike super, super busy.
Um and yeah, so that'll thatthat'll be the first store.
Uh we're gonna we're gonna uhrent robots out of there.
A ton of people are very curiousabout humanoids, but don't want
to throw down a bunch of money.
Um like we at a at a high level,like we're trying to build F1
(50:29):
racing, and yet no one has a caryet.
Uh, and so we gotta seed themarket, we've got to get people
robots so that way they can go,oh, what do we do with this?
And we have the answer, which isfight them in a ring, uh,
because it's uh a ton of fun.
SPEAKER_05 (50:46):
Well, I mean, just like you said with Formula One
too, like if fighting or FormulaOne or horse racing or whatever,
it's it's it's helps you likecompress evolution like really,
really quickly.
So a Formula One car todayversus in the 60s, it's you know
almost unrecognizable.
Um horses are faster with horse.
(51:07):
Sorry, I know nothing abouthorse racing, 101.
I assume they're faster.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
I I hear they put a bigger, uh bigger block engine
in the horse and it just made itgo a lot faster.
SPEAKER_05 (51:17):
There's no replacement for displacement.
Um but with robotics, like thebest way to make a better robot
is just beat the shit out of itand figure out where it breaks,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (51:25):
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (51:27):
And that's people can come to Rec and they can
come to the store and they cansee robots, they can rent
robots, you're selling robots,like all kinds of different
things.
SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
Yeah, we we we sell humanoids, so we'll we'll have
four models of humanoid uh whenwe open.
Uh and then we'll be doing uhweekly fights uh that that uh in
person, and then we'll be doinga weekly live stream as well.
Um so it's gonna be just a tonof carnage, uh, as as much as I
(51:56):
can can make it happen.
Uh it's it's interesting.
Uh fighting robots are gonnahelp uh re reindustrialization
too.
Um, because right now I've gotto source a ton of parts uh from
China, and it takes a couple ofmonths to get them.
Uh and if I can get somebody tomanufacture that here in the US,
(52:17):
like I'm just gonna beconstantly ripping through
parts, right?
Like I'm gonna make them better,and then I'm gonna make the
robot punch harder, I'm gonnamake it kick harder, right?
And so it's this nice, like uhthis nice cycle.
SPEAKER_05 (52:30):
I'm excited for um for like uh you know a league to
come out where there's weightclasses or whatever, it's like
run while you brung, you know,go go build something in your
garage, go fight it on theweekend, and then spend a week
repairing it.
That's that's gonna be awesome.
I I will definitely participatein that.
Um so if people want to learnmore about rec and what you're
(52:50):
doing next, where should theygo?
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
Rek.com or the rec Twitter, which is just REK.
SPEAKER_05 (52:58):
How did you get a three-letter domain name?
That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (53:01):
Yeah, uh, that was just money.
Uh the the the uh rec uh Twitterwas actually uh we did a fight
for XAI and they loved it somuch that they gave us the the
Twitter handle.
SPEAKER_05 (53:16):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (53:17):
Yeah, awesome.
Also, Elon retweeted it, whichwas awesome.
Uh that helped.
SPEAKER_05 (53:22):
Yeah.
Okay, so so when when is thisopening?
Like when when can we startrenting and buying and fighting?
SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
It's gonna be you can rent and buy them today.
Uh it's just not from the storeyet.
Uh the store about two months.
SPEAKER_05 (53:36):
Okay.
Okay, dude.
That this is awesome.
Um oh, I'm supposed to ask youone more thing.
Sorry.
Uh yeah.
Uh what is what is your onepiece of advice to someone
listening to this podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (53:47):
It can be yeah, yeah.
My my one piece of advice is uhit's gonna be really hard and
you're gonna want to give up.
Don't uh go to bed or get morecaffeine and keep going.
SPEAKER_05 (54:02):
Cool.
I love it.
Um we have to do the same thinghere.
Usually it's usually it's acombination.
Usually it's like a shit ton ofcaffeine because I'm like, okay,
I'm gonna power through it.
Then you have like a weird dreamsleep.
Right.
And and then there's then theanswer comes to you.
So right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:18):
Arnold is known for the uh the coffee nap, so that's
uh it's it's effective.
SPEAKER_05 (54:25):
It works.
All right, thank you so much forbeing on.
Um, and then go to rec.com,r-ek.com, check everything out,
go on the rec Twitter, and thenthis is where Dom's lovely outro
will play.
Awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Do we have an outro?
Am I supposed to say something?
SPEAKER_00 (54:43):
Can you say like thanks for listening?
Love to have your feedback.
Find us uh on Insta and YouTubeat SendHutsen.
SPEAKER_05 (54:49):
Can we just use that?
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
If you have any questions,comments, or concerns, you can
email us at just gonna send itat sendkutsen.com or find us on
social at sendkutsend at gymbelow sick.
Don't forget to subscribe,download, and share your
friends.
Thanks again for listening.
Catch you on the next episode.
My mom told me no, and then I just went and blew
shit up.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Who why don't we race missiles?
That sounds a like right?
Like we have cruise missiles.
Why don't we race them?
SPEAKER_05 (00:08):
There's no replacement for displacement.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
Let's build robots to build homes.
Shit.
Well, now I need my questions.
We met because we were swordfighting with meter sticks and
he broke my phone.
SPEAKER_05 (00:20):
I think I'm unk.
I was told that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (00:33):
Well, welcome to our our uh I was gonna call it a
shitty podcast, but it's not ashitty podcast.
Producer Dom is sitting rightacross from me.
She looks really fucking hard atthis.
So um it's a great podcast.
I'm the shitty part.
How about how about welcome toour great podcast with a shitty
host?
There we go.
Jeez, sorry, you're doing agreat job, Dom.
Welcome to the Jeff Canadapodcast.
(00:54):
I'm your host, Jim Belosic.
I am joined today by a veryspecial guest, Barrett Ames, um,
of all kinds of roboticsbackground and cool stuff.
So we're gonna talk about Rec,and we're gonna talk about
Botbuilt, we're gonna talk aboutNASA, we're gonna talk about
Duke and who knows what else,yeah?
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (01:16):
Okay, cool game.
Welcome to the show.
Um shit.
Well, now I need my questions.
Okay, so I shouldn't have likeintroduced that way.
All right, so so on the pod,we're we're basically kids call
it the pod?
Or what do we call it?
The pod, is that's okay?
Okay, I don't want to be uhcringe or boomer.
(01:36):
Yeah, I I think I'm unk.
I was told that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yep.
I think we're all unk at thispoint.
SPEAKER_05 (01:44):
Uh so the the point of this uh this pod is I don't
know, just kind of we have a lotof listeners that are you know
young people just getting out ofcollege or they're in high
school or whatever, and they'relike, hey, how do I how do I do
what you guys are doing?
You know, how do you create acool business?
How do you get a cool job?
(02:04):
How do you make cool stuff?
And uh the reason I have guestslike you on is so that we can
say like we didn't know what thehell we were doing, we just
figured it out.
Here's where we are today.
Um it'll make you feel a littlebit better about whatever path
you happen to be on.
So uh long way of saying, like,let's start with your
background.
Like, tell me where you grew up,what were you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Yeah, I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona, in the middle
of suburbia, uh, like classicsuburbia, uh like pinnacle of
man's hubris, live in the middleof a desert, have uh, you know,
fake lake, uh, so that way wecan all pretend we're not
actually in the middle of thedesert.
Um, but yeah, no, I I always wasalways building or designing
(02:52):
stuff.
Uh I looked for it because myparents just moved out of out of
my out of the house that I grewup in, and they sent me
everything.
Like they they got rid ofnothing, right?
So they sent me everything frommy room.
And there I was looking for onebook that it was my invention
book, right?
Like that just had all of mychildhood scrawlings.
(03:12):
Uh but the I I couldn't find itthis afternoon, but but there's
like you know, ray guns inthere.
I had like missile racing.
Like, who why don't we racemissiles?
That sounds right, like right,like we have cruise missiles.
Why don't we race them?
Uh Palmer, if you're listening,cruise missile races.
Let's go.
SPEAKER_05 (03:32):
We will we will be uh the first to sponsor.
This sounds incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Uh so you know, just just all sorts of stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (03:41):
Okay, so I don't know.
I guess it sounds like um if youwant to get into robotics as an
adult, you should probablyalready have like a invention
book when you're what five orsix years old.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah, so like one morning when I was seven, I came
running downstairs and I wasjust like, Mom, I want to blow
stuff up.
Uh and she said, You're going torobot camp, right?
Like, that's the like I could Icould have just been blowing
stuff up all summer, but insteadshe like she channeled it,
right?
Um so it's it's uh there theredoes need you you you need
(04:16):
mentors, right?
SPEAKER_05 (04:17):
Yeah, my mom told me no, and then I just went and
blew shit up.
So yeah, and then I got introuble.
So yeah, that's that's that'spretty cool to have parents that
encourage it.
So I mean, and she knew thatrobot camp existed.
Well, first of all, yeah, robotcamp existed, and we're you're
in Phoenix, right?
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So she uh she had been puttingme in all sorts of camps, right?
Like just to like get out ofhere, kid.
Uh so no, she she I think shehad already picked it out, uh,
and this was just the liketrigger that like the
information.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (04:53):
Yeah.
And then and then how manysiblings?
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
I have four siblings, but they're all way
older than me.
So my brother, my brother's 20years older than me.
He's uh he's a a searinstructor, which is the like if
you're gonna go behind enemylines, you have to get taught
how to how to deal with uhtorture and search and rescue
and all of that.
And he was the instructor forthat.
(05:16):
So like my first memory of mybrother is him picking me up.
He's massive, he's a ginormoushuman being, uh, picking me up
and putting me like an inch anda half away from the ceiling fan
blades, uh, which is just likelike just uh like everything
about my brother collapsed into30 seconds.
SPEAKER_04 (05:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
And then I've got three sisters uh who are are all
like uh additional mothers,right?
Like they're they're uh the thegreatest example I have of this,
I was I was at the uh at thehospital with my mom recently,
and uh my I was handing offbetween my sister and me, and
(05:59):
we're changing the contactinformation, and I the lady was
like, Oh, how do you spell yourname?
And my sister answered before Icould, right?
Which I was just like, I'm I'm36, I know how to spell my name.
You don't have to spell it forme.
Uh so like that's you know, I'vegot a lot of a lot of mothers.
SPEAKER_05 (06:17):
Yeah, so uh so it sounds like you know, especially
with the age difference, um,you're running around telling
your mom that you want to blowstuff up, and she's like,
awesome, let's uh let you're theyou're the last one, you're the
youngest.
It's just like driving me crazy.
Let's go put you into camps.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_05 (06:36):
Uh so how was how was robot camp?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
It was good.
I mean, like there are twothings that I remember from it.
Uh one was like it was cool tobuild, it was Lego robots,
right?
It was like very earlymindstorms that and and MM had
just come out.
So it was like I learned aboutMM uh and and Legos at the same
time, and uh, you know, LegoMindstorm at the same time.
SPEAKER_05 (06:58):
Okay, that's a pretty good camp, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (07:00):
Yeah.
And then that led you to you youdid uh first robotics in high
school, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Yep, yeah, did first, uh, which was which was
an awesome experience.
Just uh, you know, uh the thehigh school that I went to was
very hands-off, uh, and it wasjust like here's money and
space, go build stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (07:24):
Uh oh, as far as like the first team right when
okay, I was like, I was thinkingabout high school in general.
I was like, at no point myEnglish teacher would be like, I
mean, whatever.
Like, what high school?
Yeah, I was getting kind ofjealous of Phoenix there.
Okay.
So uh so hands off.
Okay, so what was what was thatlike?
(07:45):
I mean, did you always want towork with robots?
I mean, because you still do,like, we'll get into like rack
and everything else.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah.
I think so.
In high school, I I did have tolike make a decision between
like robotics, and at the time Iwas also working in a genetics
lab doing like helpinggenetically modified mice so
they have asthma.
And like they both consumed alot of time, right?
(08:10):
And at one point, I just sat, Iactually sat down with my math
teacher at the time and waslike, I I don't know which way
should I go, man.
Uh, and we just had aconversation about it.
Uh, and at the end of it, I waslike, I'm gonna go build robots.
Uh and and he was smart, likewicked smart dude.
Uh, he was smart enough to belike, yeah, yeah, yeah, you like
(08:32):
mechanical engineering andyou're pretty good at it, but
you need to go study uh computerscience and AI.
Uh like the that that's thefuture of it.
Um so good good advice early.
SPEAKER_05 (08:45):
Yeah, and uh he could like kind of see the
future a little bit too.
That's that's pretty cool.
Um I had a really good questionnow, it just fell oh shit.
Okay, so uh otherwise, like howwas high school for you?
Did you like high school or didyou like parts of it or hate it
or yeah, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
High school is like uh I mean uh parts of it were
awesome, right?
Like I got my my my best manworking at what uh I met in in
high school.
We like I don't know, highschool's weird being being you
know, we we met because we weresword fighting with meter
(09:25):
sticks, and he broke my phone.
Uh and we've been friends eversince.
Uh so it he was the best man atmy wedding.
We worked at NASA together, likejust all sorts of crazy stuff.
Um so I don't know.
Well, I and like you just get acouple of good friends and and
like I don't know, the rest ofit's just kind of stuff you
(09:47):
grind through because you haveto.
SPEAKER_05 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, same.
Um I think there's there's a lotof people where high school was
like the best place in theworld, and then that's kind of
like peak of their life.
And then I talked to a lot ofpeople where high school wasn't
that great, and then they'redoing so much better now, and
there's just a blip.
So anyway, if if you hate highschool right now, uh don't
worry, it gets way better.
(10:11):
Yeah, when my like one friendwasn't there, I'd have to like
go hang out in the library.
It's I'd hate it.
Yes, uh so you're you're doing abunch of robots and stuff.
Um in high school, you're doingfirst, uh, you're getting your
thumb broken with meter sticks.
Yep.
Uh and then college is Cornell,right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_05 (10:32):
Okay, so how did I mean that's that's a hell of a
school.
I've I've heard just becauseI've I don't know any schools,
but I've heard of that one.
SPEAKER_01 (10:38):
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (10:39):
How'd you how'd you get in?
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Uh how did I get in?
Yeah, I mean I don't I don'tknow.
Like uh first and and and youknow good grades.
SPEAKER_05 (10:51):
Uh and uh you think robotics like today, um, do you
think robotics would help youknow kids get into uh into a
school?
Oh definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
I think I think I mean a lot of academia is
becoming ever moreinterdisciplinary because the
the the ivory towers are kind ofat their limits, right?
Like, like sure, you can gostudy math and and just do pure
math all the time.
Um, but a lot of the at least inthe engineering fields, it's
(11:24):
it's all right, let's take thesetwo things that nobody else has
taken and put smash themtogether.
Let's see what's cool.
SPEAKER_05 (11:30):
So we we talk a lot about you know uh just hiring
here at Send Cut Send.
It's like it's great if peoplehave an example of what they do,
like if they have a portfolio,if they can show some photos on
their phone, they're like, hey,check out this thing that I
built.
Um is that even possible with acollege application?
Like, can you you can writedown, hey, I did first robotics
and here's my accomplishments.
(11:51):
Is it is it possible todemonstrate you know to uh an
administr admissions board, umhey, here's some cool shit that
I did.
Like what are some hacks youthink?
Sorry, I'm just thinking.
Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
No, no, no, definitely.
Like um, I was just helping akid write his his college app,
excuse me, his collegeapplications, and like we just
included his portfolio website.
Um, that's smart.
Um you can all also just likedescribe it uh and uh that that
that helps too.
(12:24):
Um my nephew had a portfoliowebsite um that worked for him.
Uh so yeah, no, I think you candefinitely show off.
SPEAKER_05 (12:33):
So how is how is Cornell?
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Cornell was like Cornell's an interesting place.
Uh it's like 360, 350 days ofclouds a year coming from
Phoenix, where it's like fivedays of clouds a year.
Uh so like I was doing summersin Phoenix and winters in
(12:57):
upstate New York.
Uh like worst weather transitionever.
Learned a ton.
Uh uh made some really goodfriends in my fraternity.
Um and you know, I uh itdefinitely trained me.
Uh I was surrounded by geniuses,right?
(13:18):
Like the guy, the guy who's incharge of uh Starship's uh
navigation system, like all ofit, uh, was sitting next to me
in physics.
And like I'm really happy that Igot to know him uh and that he's
in charge of Starship because hejust crushed me in physics
constantly, right?
And I was like, God, I'm stupid.
(13:38):
Uh but like uh he's he's justwicked smart.
Um so no, it it's like it's coolto meet people like that.
Um and and you know, just justbe around ambitious people.
The Cornell like gets this repfor being like really cutthroat,
(13:59):
and I never experienced that.
Like uh maybe it is in in otherschools, but in engineering and
CS, like whatever.
We're we're all we all have thesame enemy, it's the problem
set.
Uh and and you know, everybody'sjust trying to help each other
uh understand the problem.
I I'm also like uh deeply like Iwant to do it myself as much as
(14:25):
possible, right?
So maybe that's why I didn't uhexperience the cutthroateness.
SPEAKER_05 (14:30):
When when you were going to Cornell, did you go
there specifically becauseyou're like, yeah, I want to
continue in robotics, or wereyou just like uh it's college
and I'm gonna do college here?
Or do you have a master plan?
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah, so I actually looked at a bunch of schools,
um, and like I didn't even Iwent to MIT, looked at their
robotics, and was like, what arethese scrubs doing?
Um and so I didn't even apply toMIT.
SPEAKER_04 (14:53):
Uh I've never heard anyone trash MIT like that.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Right?
Like uh and like in hindsight,uh I was clearly like uh
misjudging some of their stuff,right?
Like the thing that I distinctlyremember, like I went to a lab
and there was a there was anaxle in one of their robots, and
they just like didn't finish thecut, right?
Like they just snapped it off,and there was just like a jagged
(15:21):
edge, and I was like, who what?
Just like finish the cut or likeget a file and finish it off,
like right, like that that'swhat that that's what pissed me
off and shoved me over the edge.
And I was like, Nope, take themoff the list.
SPEAKER_05 (15:35):
A bunch of hacks over at MIT.
I'd like to say that uh my viewsdo not reflect uh both of those.
We love MIT.
Right.
We like all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Um yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (15:47):
So no, that but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
So I mean, clearly, MIT has done a bunch of cool
stuff.
Russ, uh a bunch of my PhD workis actually building off of Russ
Tedrake from MIT.
Songbei Kim has done a bunch ofcool stuff, Ben Katz, like the
the MIT is uh like clearly avery good school.
SPEAKER_05 (16:06):
Well, yeah, I I was gonna say we were talking about
Cornell, but I was gonna gofurther because the then you
went to Duke.
SPEAKER_02 (16:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (16:13):
Uh and and because you are like really good at
school.
Uh I guess.
SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
I guess.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (16:19):
Because Cornell for Robotics and then Duke uh to get
your your doctorate in AI androbotics.
Okay, so so Cornell gets you,you know, your um Yeah, so I did
I did uh yeah, I was likemaster's.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah, I did I did a McI did uh I made up my own
degree, which was one reasonthat I went to Cornell.
Uh the founding founding mottoof Cornell uh is any person any
study.
And at the time there weren'tany robotics programs.
Um so I picked Cornell for tworeasons.
One was there were a ton ofrobotics project teams that I
could just join.
(16:54):
Um, and then the any person anystudy let me build my own
curriculum.
So I did I did a bunch of AI androbotics, and I did dynamics,
statics, material synthesis, youknow, got in the machine shop.
Cornell has an amazing machineshop for a university.
(17:14):
Um and so I put those twotogether and left out things
that I I didn't think I was evergoing to need in robotics, like
operating systems.
Like, who cares?
It's there, I'm gonna use it, Idon't need to understand it.
Um, so that that's that was thebig reason why I ended up going
to Cornell.
SPEAKER_05 (17:34):
Okay, and then and then after you're done, you're
like, okay, I could get a job,or maybe not, let me go to Duke
for a little while, or how'dthat happen?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Right, yeah.
So so I actually did my firststartup right out of undergrad.
The advice that I got out ofCornell was you're young and
dumb, go find a mentor.
Um, and I was like, okay, cool.
So I went to went went back toPhoenix, did uh an anti-piracy,
as in like, let's take on realpirates, uh like ocean faring
(18:05):
pirates.
Um, as so I I helped build a uhcannon launched drone.
SPEAKER_05 (18:11):
Why are they doing this in Phoenix?
That's not a lot of pirates inPhoenix, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
I know, I know, I know.
This story does not end well forme.
Uh I I make it about like fourand a half months.
We make one really big sale ofthis drone, um, and uh it was
like$10,000,$15,000.
And the guy I I had been workingfor free, living out of my
parents, uh, thought we werelike equal partners.
(18:39):
Uh, and I was like, all right,cool, like I need some money,
bro.
Uh, and he was like, here's ahundred bucks.
Oh and I was like, all right,I've made a mistake here.
SPEAKER_05 (18:49):
Yeah, to anyone listening, uh nothing exists
unless it's in writing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (18:55):
Yeah, you can have a lot of handshakes, you can have
a lot of other stuff, get it inwriting.
Be very, very clear.
I was just telling my son this.
My son is into photography, andand he was uh he's like, Oh,
these guys invited me to go likephotograph this event or
whatever.
I'm like, how much are yougetting paid?
And he's like, Oh, I don't know,but I'm gonna go do it.
And I was like, No, you need tolike either tell them how much
(19:16):
you charge or negotiate a fee,and then they can either tell
you yes or no.
And he didn't do it, and I thinkhe ended up getting like a you
know 50% off coupon to thefrozen yogurt place.
Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe youneed those lessons, I guess.
Right, right.
Can you tell me about the drone?
Okay, how does uh tell me howthe drone uh gets rid of the
pirates?
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
Yeah, so there's this really uh shipping like uh
commercial shipping has thisinteresting problem where when
you're going throughpirate-infested waters like
Somalia, like around the coastof Somalia, uh, you want uh
private military contractors.
(19:57):
Private military contractorsdon't want to be subordinate to
a ship captain, but ship captainwants to control the entire
ship.
Uh and so we built this drone asa way to empower ship captains
without giving them privatemilitary contractors, because
also like the in a bunch ofports in the world, weapons are
just illegal.
SPEAKER_05 (20:17):
Yeah, I was gonna say like the main problem is you
can't have a bunch of guns onboats, like unless you're the
Navy.
So that's yeah, step one.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Right.
Which leads to reallyinteresting things there.
Floating armories uh off thecoast of India, which is super
cool.
Uh but but anyways, this droneyou can't have them in the
ports, right?
SPEAKER_05 (20:36):
You can have them on the ship.
Oh, so you just go load up withguns on your way out?
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (20:41):
Oh, this is okay.
This is great.
Yeah, that's that's our nextbusiness.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, floating banks and floatingarmories are uh like a thelian
wet dream, right?
Yeah, just seasteading to itsbest.
Um, but the uh uh guns or bombsor the the the drone had two
options.
(21:05):
One was uh pepper balls.
Uh the other was if you werefeeling a little more
aggressive, you could just crashthe thing into the boat.
Uh because most of the boats areare tiny, and you really just
need to like slow them down fora little bit and you'll get
away.
Um so that was our like notsuper lethal uh uh way of of of
(21:28):
deterring them.
SPEAKER_05 (21:30):
How big is this drone?
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
Uh it's like three and a half, four feet.
SPEAKER_05 (21:36):
Okay, yeah, you don't really want that thing
flying at you, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
No, yeah, yeah.
It was it was pretty fast.
SPEAKER_05 (21:42):
So you so you did this cool project.
You're the designer, developer,mechanical engineer on this
project.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
I did uh all of the controls.
The other guy was in charge oflike aerospace stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (21:55):
Okay, so and then you got your hundred bucks.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Got my hundred bucks, and I actually That ended
up being like uh really usefulum because I got it I got uh
onto the Valkyrie projectbecause I was looking for a job
in October, November, which is aweird time, uh and is also a
time when government's hiring.
(22:19):
Um and so I I was a guy who hadmechanical engineering
experience, computer scienceexperience.
I used Ross, right?
Which like back back in the day,like I started using Ross when
it first came out.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_05 (22:36):
Uh yeah, uh thinking of the clothing store.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
I shop at Ross.
Um, no, it's uh uh the robotoperating system.
So it it's uh there's there's uha nonprofit called Willow Garage
that started in the Bay Area umthat built the PR2 and then
released this middleware thatallowed you to like plug and
play a whole bunch of differentsoftware, right?
(23:02):
Uh and so I immediately startedusing it.
Um and they were looking forpeople with that experience.
Uh, and there was no one withmore experience than than me who
didn't work there.
SPEAKER_05 (23:15):
And you had a hundred bucks, too.
So that's right.
I did have a hundred bucks,yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you mentioned Valkyrieproject.
So what tell tell us uh what theValkyrie project was, like in
Bruce.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Valkyrie was uh you know,DARPA robotics challenge.
Um basically Fukushima nuclearreactor disaster happens.
Um it's the biggest failure ofthe field of robotics to date,
right?
There's like 150 plus robots inthat nuclear reactor that all
(23:48):
tried to go in there and turnthe reactor off.
And none of them could do it.
They all failed, and all theyhad to do was go through a
hallway and press a button.
Um, and they failed for a bunchof different reasons.
SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And and as a result, like somedude had to give up his life,
right?
In like the grossest, nastiestway ever.
Like nuclear radiation poisoningis just the absolute worst way
to die.
Um, and like we did we he had todo that because we couldn't get
a robot to press a button.
(24:22):
Um, so that's the likemotivating example for the DARPA
Robotics Challenge.
Can we build a robot that canget through all of the various
obstacles that stopped robots sothat way we can press a button
and somebody doesn't have to diethat way again?
SPEAKER_05 (24:38):
Wow.
Okay, and so you were on thatproject or on the project.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Okay, yep, yep.
So now so we went from blanksheet of paper to you know
functioning humanoid bipedalrobot in 18 months.
There's a team of 50 out of thatlab.
Uh you the the founders of noblemachines, persona, uh aptronic,
(25:05):
uh, like a bunch of the bighumanoid players all come out of
out of this lab.
Uh it's it's a it's a cool labto to have been a part of.
SPEAKER_05 (25:15):
Plus, still stay in touch.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
Oh yeah, I was just texting uh one of them today.
That's awesome.
Um and uh the the we also got todo like a bunch of really cool
historic stuff.
Uh like I I've sat in theoriginal Houston control, uh
mission control, like at a desk.
Um we built this, we builtValkyrie in the same clean room
(25:39):
that they built the Apollocapsules.
Uh just like cool stuff.
Uh there's some downsides, likeit's all asbestos and whatnot,
but you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (25:47):
I was gonna say, do they let you smoke at the
Houston control room?
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
Like that seems like you don't, you don't, you don't,
you don't have to, it just kindof seeps in.
SPEAKER_05 (25:56):
Okay, yeah.
I assumed it was a requirement.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:59):
Dude, that's cool.
Okay, so okay, so the you havelike all these like little
experiences that kind of buildand build and build.
So after Valkyrie, um then thenwhat's next?
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Then I gotta work on Robonaut 2, which was on the
International Space Station.
Uh super cool robot.
Uh I this won't be true muchlonger, but astronaut time is
roughly$50,000 an hour, and theyspend four to five hours a week
cleaning their rooms.
Um, and so we taught Robonaut todo some some station keeping.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Uh, like like what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Like like like vacuuming.
SPEAKER_05 (26:35):
Oh, do shit, really?
SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um uh which a super cool projectto work on.
It was originally built uhbecause uh astronaut hands in
spacesuits are like the size ofa bratwurst, like each finger is
a bratwurst, and it's it's likebeing inside of a balloon,
right?
So it's like very difficult andyou have no dexterity.
(26:59):
And uh one of my advisors, RobPlatt, figured out early that we
could design a hand that's moreagile uh than a human hand in a
in an astronaut suit.
Um, so that was like the theoriginal thrust of Robonaut 2 is
to do all of the uh EVAs withrobots.
SPEAKER_05 (27:19):
Oh, okay.
This is EVA.
I was picturing them vacuuminginside.
SPEAKER_01 (27:23):
Right.
Oh no, well, so yeah, uh Iwasn't clear there.
The stuff I did was all inside,but the robot was built for the
outside.
SPEAKER_05 (27:31):
Okay, okay, that makes that makes sense.
I was like, why are they inspacesuits when they're
vacuuming inside?
Okay, got it, got it.
Sorry, I'm stupid.
Uh so you you have these amazingopportunities.
Uh and then what, do you wake upone day and you're like, I need
my my PhD?
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_05 (27:49):
Like uh was there like a role, a lull in the job
market or something?
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Or no, no, there was just there's some math that I
wanted to go understand, and Iknew it was gonna take longer uh
than I could like squeeze in onthe sides.
Um and also like NASA, like Iguess the startup culture hadn't
quite fully consumed the worldthat like it has now.
(28:17):
Um and and being at NASA, likecredentials and experience are
very important.
And so there is this like, well,you're only gonna get here if
you have this, right?
And so I was like, all right,cool.
Like I want to go learn thismath.
Uh, I also did like thefinancial ROI and was like, all
right, so like if I have a PhD,I'm gonna get paid this much.
(28:38):
So I gotta do it, gotta do it inlike this amount of time.
SPEAKER_05 (28:42):
So the goal, the goal wasn't to like leave NASA,
it was to like level up so youcan get to a better pay bracket
or whatever.
Like my wife did that when shewas a teacher.
They were like, oh, if you're ateacher plus a master's, then
you get like another you know700 bucks or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
Yeah, it wasn't specifically to stay at NASA,
but just like what I couldfigure out about the field as
you know, somebody poking aroundin it.
SPEAKER_05 (29:05):
Well, uh, can you tell us a little bit about like
the pay at NASA?
Like, are they competitive withstartups or is it like a good
career?
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
You don't have to say that no, no, no, it's fine.
Uh NASA itself, all pay ispublic.
Uh there are public, uheverybody who's a NASA servant
public servant, their pay isonline.
Uh and it it's like very undermarket, uh, with like most
(29:33):
government jobs, but there'sthere's stability there.
Um at least for the most part.
SPEAKER_05 (29:38):
It it seems too like you can leverage that for
something else.
You know, if you're going intothe startup world, but you're
like, hey, I worked at NASA,like that's that's a pretty good
foot in the door, I wouldassume.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yep, yep, for sure.
For sure.
SPEAKER_05 (29:51):
So you you're like, okay, I'm gonna get my my PhD
because I need to be smarter atmath.
Um, and then that's how you endup at Duke?
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So I I talked to a bunch of uhlike when you do a PhD, you
don't really care too much aboutthe school.
There's like you're reallyapplying to work with one
particular person, right?
Uh, and so my my advisor was wasthe only person that I found who
(30:20):
was working on the symbolgrounding problem, which is
basically like how do you takeall of this continuous madness
and boil it down to one onetoken, right?
Like uh turns out like largelanguage models were the answer
here.
Um and uh that I don't know thatthey were trying to do to solve
(30:42):
the symbol grounding problem,but that was the problem that
that uh I was really interestedin because we have all of these
like really nice formal methodsthat are pretty quick for
solving logical problems, and Ineeded some way to connect those
and robots.
Uh because I wanted to be ableto say, like, hey robot, go do X
(31:02):
uh and figure it out, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:04):
Figure it out, like fill in the blanks.
Okay, and that's so kind of likethe early days of of LLM or
whatever.
That was yeah, yeah, okay.
So uh is your is your PhD in inAI?
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
It's in AI and robotics, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (31:22):
Okay, yeah, dude.
You're like the smartest, mostdown to earth person that I I
think I've met.
Like just like I thanks, thanks,Dave.
You look like you could catch abeer, uh uh, but then you're
doing some super smart shit.
So anyway, I I feel very out ofmy league.
Um as do most people that I knowthat went to Duke, like my
lovely wife.
(31:44):
She she was going to Duke, shecame home for Christmas break,
uh, and I was working for hermom, and her mom is like, You
should take my daughter out.
And I was like, No way, she'slike gorgeous.
So anyway, yeah, Duke people arejust way out of my league.
Anyway, sorry that I had to likefangirl you.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
No, no, no, it's it's all right.
So we're we're all fangirlingover you, Jim.
I don't know about you.
You're cutting a lot of sheetmetal, you're doing a lot of
good work, man.
SPEAKER_05 (32:15):
I'm I'm just doing all the dumb shit so that you
guys can go do the smart stuff.
Um okay, so you get your yourPhD.
Are you are you Dr.
Barrett?
Is that can I call you?
Can I call you?
I mean you you can.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Uh you don't you don't have to.
SPEAKER_05 (32:29):
Uh do you oh when you when you book a flight, you
know it gives you the prefix.
Do you uh the doctor on there?
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
No, but if my uh bot built yeah uh at bot built, my
founders, if they if they everbooked tickets for me, would
would put doctor in there.
SPEAKER_05 (32:47):
There's also reverent.
I choose reverent all the time.
That's my favorite one.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
So they on international flights, they'll
actually like call you out onit.
Um what do you mean?
Like they'll say doctor.
SPEAKER_05 (32:59):
Oh, like when you get on, they're like welcome
back.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Domestic, they don't care.
They're right, yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_05 (33:06):
Yeah, cattle.
So so you can't get your doctor,you get your PhD, uh, and then
you go back to NASA and you'relike, hey, pay me more, or what
what's next?
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
I didn't I so uh about uh about a year into doing
the PhD, my wife and I uh made adeeply questionable decision,
which was to buy the shittiesthouse we could find uh and
(33:36):
renovate it.
SPEAKER_05 (33:37):
Was it the shittiest house in the best neighborhood
or just shitty house in general?
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
It was in a good neighborhood.
SPEAKER_05 (33:44):
Okay, because yeah, I like the I like the bad house
in a good neighborhood theory.
SPEAKER_01 (33:47):
Oh, totally, totally.
And the idea was like during theweek I'd burn my brain out on
math and on the weekends, likeI'd restore myself by being a
craftsman, right?
Like, because I've all I'vealways liked building stuff.
And like, no, just like justjust a lot of work.
Uh still one of the bestinvestments I've ever made, but
(34:08):
still uh just a ton of work.
And I was sitting there are youin your living room right now?
SPEAKER_05 (34:13):
Is this progress?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
I know, right?
Like, I'm just I'm socomfortable around uh uh you
know bare stud walls that thisis this is where I work now.
But no, it's uh I I finishedthat job for the most part.
Um and but I was sitting thereone Saturday uh installing
flooring uh and I was justlooking at at a stud wall just
(34:37):
like this, and I was like, man,there's so much regularity here.
Like the methods in robotics aregood enough to do this now.
Why isn't anybody doing this?
Uh and that's how bot builtstarted.
SPEAKER_05 (34:50):
Okay, that's awesome.
Okay, what a good segue.
Um, so so tell us a little bitabout bot built.
SPEAKER_01 (34:56):
Yeah, so we uh I was in my notes.
SPEAKER_05 (35:00):
Good job, good job, Dom.
Uh producer Dom does deepresearch on everyone before they
come in.
SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so Bot Built was uh you knowan idea that came out of out of
renovation and looking at housesand and realizing also like
looking at my checking bookevery every month and being
like, wow, housing's reallyexpensive.
Um and digging into why is that,right?
(35:28):
And it's like no one no one noone builds anymore.
Um and so we we we thought,well, let's let's get robots to
do that.
And so actually the the firstperson I talked to was uh my
cousin Brent.
Uh he was our CEO.
And he's he's crazy.
He had spent 10 years in specialoperations uh doing, and before
(35:52):
that, had exited a couple ofbusinesses successfully.
Uh so I always I always knewthat I wanted to do a business
with him.
I knew I was gonna learn a tonfrom working with him.
Uh so I was just like, hey,Brent, let's solve homelessness,
let's build robots to buildhomes.
SPEAKER_05 (36:08):
What does your wife say?
Uh was she like for it or likewhat the hell are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
Yeah, no, she was like, Oh yeah, no, if you're
gonna start a business, Brent'slike the only person you should
start a business with.
Um, so no, it it actuallyworked, you know, she was very
supportive of it.
Um she's she's she's uh a saintuh and a wonderful person, and
um I couldn't do uh most of whatI do it if if she wasn't uh as
(36:36):
deeply supportive as as she is.
SPEAKER_05 (36:38):
So I think that's a that's a trend.
Um some of the the mostsuccessful people that we've
talked to uh are are successfulbecause they got a good woman
who's keeping everything, orvice versa.
Right, right.
It takes a pair.
Um yeah.
And is she the same as you orthe opposite of you?
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
Uh that's a good question.
SPEAKER_05 (37:01):
Because mine's the opposite.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
Like she's definitely not she's definitely
not the opposite.
SPEAKER_05 (37:06):
It may be complementing strengths and
weaknesses, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:09):
Yeah, she like the I think the biggest where we're
the most different is in ourrisk profile.
Like she is not a risk taker,and I am like, you know, white
knuckling every risk I can.
SPEAKER_05 (37:24):
Um so yeah, but if you have two of you, if you have
two risk takers, the whole thinglike it's fun for probably six
weeks and then it all burnsdown, right?
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_05 (37:33):
Yeah, we my wife, my my wife's name is Erin.
Um, we're we're always talkingabout like, man, it'd be kind of
cool to like you know get aprivate pilot's license or
whatever.
And I would be the guy that youwant in the seat, like when
you're flying into a storm andyou got to fly blind and
whatever, but I would neverremember to put gas in it or
(37:54):
like higher pressure.
But she would she would be ableto file the flight plan, she'd
make sure the maintenance wasdone and we had gas and she'd
know the insurance and all thatshit.
But then she'd probably justlike pass out if there was like
an emergency landing.
So um good to have thosecomplimenting strengths and
weaknesses.
So let's say you're like, hey,we're gonna do this business,
(38:15):
and then the did you getfunding, or how did how did you
start?
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Yeah, so we so uh I I I asked Brent about about
doing this business, and he waslike, Hell yeah, let's do it.
That was March of 2020.
Uh oh, yeah.
Uh and I'd love to be for thoseof you young people.
Right, yeah, that's thebeginning of COVID.
SPEAKER_05 (38:38):
Oh my god, yeah, what was it?
Like March 19, I think was likeokay.
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Right.
So uh so I looked over to Brandtand I was like, dude, the
playing field just got level.
Everyone is zooming.
There is no there like personalconnection is now like we could
do this all from North Carolina.
Uh and so we did.
We got into uh Y Combinator.
Uh we raised our first round uhall all all over Zoom.
SPEAKER_05 (39:07):
Would you would you recommend Y Combinator uh for
people who have an idea?
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Yeah, I think it's getting better for hardware.
Um it was when we joined, thereweren't many people who had
joined before and could reallyreally guide the path, like you
know, sh provide any guidancefrom a hardware perspective.
Um but it it's it's you knowit's also growing really fast
(39:36):
and and you know certainly hashad its fair share of
controversies over the lastcouple of couple of years, but
generally like a very good uhcommunity of people that you can
talk to and say crazy shit, andthey'll either like they'll
think about it, they won't justtell you no because you're
crazy.
SPEAKER_05 (39:54):
Yeah, that's cool.
Any any tips for people thatwant to get in?
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
They like all all of the tips uh that are public are
true.
I think that's the biggest pieceof advice.
Like a lot of a lot of thepeople who apply kind of get
into their own head and like, ohwell, they're telling me this
advice, so clearly it's not theright advice.
I need to like go second order.
Nope.
Uh it's just like uh take taketheir advice, um uh and and
(40:26):
listen to it.
Like they they do mostly careabout the people.
Uh the the ideas change sofrequently, the business changes
so frequently that they reallyjust want to see you and your
co-founders are cohesive uh andand and trying to do hard stuff,
right?
And then they'll put you in aroom with a bunch of other
(40:48):
smart, ambitious people, andcool stuff happens, right?
Like, I gotta meet uh PhilJohnson, who's doing the uh the
space data center stuff.
I saw him like a year beforethis whole thing exploded and
everybody was talking aboutspace data centers, and it's
like, dude, this is a geniusidea, right?
Like good luck.
(41:09):
Uh so it like there are just abunch of really cool um
connections that you make andand smart people that you talk
to.
SPEAKER_05 (41:17):
I think the what do you call it, the thread, the
through, what do you call that?
I don't know.
I'm looking Dom.
Uh whatever.
The the connecting thing forthis whole like chat that we've
had for 40 minutes or whateveris like you keep surrounding
yourself with really, reallycool people.
Like everywhere you've gone, youknow, uh you you're surrounding
(41:41):
yourself with with geniuses andrisk takers and all kinds of
stuff, whether that's a youknow, uh NASA or or Duke, when
you go to you know, go learnfrom the best of the best, and
then uh you know, whycombinator, there's like super
smart people that are giving youadvice.
So um if you think you're thesmartest guy in the room, uh
it's not gonna work out well foryou.
(42:03):
But if if you go and appreciateeveryone else's genius, then I I
think it's gonna make you abetter person.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
Yep, yep, yeah, yeah.
I just I you know I just want tolearn.
So I always I I just keep tryingto find other other people to
teach me stuff that I that Ihaven't learned yet.
SPEAKER_05 (42:20):
That's awesome.
So okay, so why combinator?
You you do it over Zoom, you'relike, screw it, we want in.
They cut you a check, and thenyou go start bot built, and
you're you're trying to do likeframing and yeah, well, okay,
yeah.
Yeah, what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
Yeah, so it we started out thinking that like
physical labor was the problemthat we were gonna solve in in
carpentry and and home building.
Um and by the end, we made amassive dent in it.
But a lot along the way, uh, werealized that like a floor plan,
while it looks like it should bea technical drawing, is not.
(42:56):
It's just like made-up lines uhthat are pretty.
Um, my my favorite example thereis like we we we had this chunk
of software that would take afloor plan and turn it into a
CAD model, and then from thatCAD model, the robots would go
and build it, right?
Um and so one time I I processedthis floor plan and the walls
(43:17):
didn't come together, like therewere holes everywhere around the
house.
And I called the architect and Iwas like, What what's going on
with this house?
And they're like, Well, I didn'tlike fractions, so I just got
rid of them.
SPEAKER_04 (43:28):
And it's just like, oh, it's because the framers
don't like fractions either.
SPEAKER_01 (43:33):
Right.
Well, so and that's that's theeven crazier part.
This home had been built 500times, and the framers just
filled it in.
Um and so what we the the thepart of Bop Built that continues
to endure today is the part thatcan take a floor plan, figure
out all of the material that youneed uh by building a CAD model
(43:56):
down to the 32nd of an inch oflumber.
It's basically You you know thisgame, it's the on like online
quoting tool for sheet metal.
We just applied it to a house.
It it takes them manually acouple of weeks to do that
estimate, and we can do it in ina couple of hours.
SPEAKER_05 (44:13):
So was that an exit for you or it was it was an exit
for me.
SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
The company keeps going.
Uh they changed the name tobenchmark.io uh and are are
doing doing this uh you knowplan processing and quoting
part.
Um but that's you know uh thatthat was January this year.
SPEAKER_05 (44:38):
Oh, okay, yeah, just recent because uh because then I
want to talk about like what I'mmost excited about, which is
yeah, right?
Okay, so so you're like cool,I've I've done this bot built
thing, I survived COVID, umfigured out all kinds of weird
stuff with housing and framing.
Uh you you exit, and then you'relike, okay, what am I gonna do
(44:59):
next?
And so that's that's wreck,right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (45:02):
So tell everyone what rec is.
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
Yeah, so rec is real steel in real life.
If you've seen the real steelmovie, but it's it's humanoid
robots with human operators uhthat are doing MMA in the
octagon, right?
Uh, and we want parts to fly.
Like that, we utter carnage.
Uh I I want to single-handedlykeep send cut send open with
(45:27):
spare part orders.
SPEAKER_05 (45:30):
Do the bots get weapons?
Or is it just fists so far?
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
So far, just fists.
Uh uh, we we have we have putkatanas in their hands, uh,
we've put machetes on theirarms.
The end state is is is uh youknow a gundam for sure.
SPEAKER_05 (45:50):
Yeah, it could be anything.
So uh have you ever done like uhfirst robotics is not
necessarily combat robotics likelike battle bots or whatever.
Have you ever done any battlebot stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (45:59):
I I have never a lot of our customers.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, one of one of our guysis actually uh yeah, he's he's
battling today.
Um they're doing thechampionship right now.
Um, so he's he's super into it.
Um and it's you know, I love towatch I I it's one of the things
(46:20):
I watch with my kids is battlebots.
SPEAKER_05 (46:22):
So so wreck is like you're like, dude, I want to I
want to have MMA with robots.
Um I want to see these thingsfight and do cool stuff.
Uh are you just are you justsitting around after you're not
at bot build anymore and you'relike, oh, this is the next
thing?
Like, how did this come about?
SPEAKER_01 (46:41):
Yeah, so one of the one of the things, um well,
there's a couple of things.
One, I started getting on Xagain, uh, which was like, you
know, when I first got onTwitter, it was like, you know,
oh, I just ate a pancake, and Ilike quickly got out of there,
right?
Uh, but then I came back uh uhand people were like talking
(47:07):
about machining and buildingrobots and building airplanes,
building rockets, and it waslike, this is totally different.
Um, and so there's this guy,six, who's like like YOLOing
robots, right?
Like he just spent a bunch ofmoney on a robot, never touched
your robot before, and likebuilding in public with this
(47:29):
robot.
And so like I'm watching him,I'm like sending some messages,
like you know, trying to help,but like I'm busy with Bob
Build, right?
Uh and and then he startsfighting them, and I was like,
oh, that's that's really cool.
Yeah, uh, so I like I he caughtmy eye quite early.
Um, but then one of the thingsthat that I that I've learned
(47:51):
from doing a lot from fromfundraising is like you can have
the best business plan in theworld, um but if you can't get
people excited about it, they'renever gonna go look at your
math, right?
And so as as as Brent was makingme an ever better salesman,
(48:12):
which is really like justdumping psychology into my
brain, I realized that like thehuman form is deeply triggering.
Like we just respond to it whenwe see it, we will attend to it.
And so when I saw, I I wasadmittedly a big hater of Rec at
first, was like, this is stupid,like uh like robots could be
(48:37):
used for such better things.
Uh and then Six was like, dude,have you ever watched Real
Steel?
And I was like, no, I'm fine,I'll go watch it with my kids,
right?
So I watched Real Steel, and Ilike the hits hit way harder
than I expected them to, right?
I was like, this is likewatching a UFC fight.
Um but when a robot getsdestroyed, you just laugh,
(49:01):
right?
When when a human is like passedout on the floor, you're like,
oh, I don't know about this guy.
Maybe we shouldn't have let themdo that.
Um, so there is like uh I don'tknow, a bunch of really cool
psychology around it.
Um and I like the the the thetech is there for for
(49:22):
entertainment and and makingcarnage.
SPEAKER_05 (49:26):
Uh I was gonna say to like today's the worst it'll
be.
You know, humanoids have a longways to go, but they're they're
not bad today, they're gonna geta hell of a lot better.
So you might as well make themfight.
Um so so what's next?
What's next for Rec?
Like what's yeah look like?
SPEAKER_01 (49:44):
Yeah, so we just announced our first store.
SPEAKER_05 (49:46):
Uh like downtown San Francisco or something, right?
Yep, yep, yep.
Is it gonna actually look likethe image that you posted?
SPEAKER_01 (49:52):
Yeah, so that image that the the like AI generated
parts of that image were thethings inside the store.
The store actually already lookslike that, okay.
Uh which was pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_05 (50:03):
That's a really cool spot.
SPEAKER_01 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's right on Van Ness, which islike super, super busy.
Um and yeah, so that'll thatthat'll be the first store.
Uh we're gonna we're gonna uhrent robots out of there.
A ton of people are very curiousabout humanoids, but don't want
to throw down a bunch of money.
Um like we at a at a high level,like we're trying to build F1
(50:29):
racing, and yet no one has a caryet.
Uh, and so we gotta seed themarket, we've got to get people
robots so that way they can go,oh, what do we do with this?
And we have the answer, which isfight them in a ring, uh,
because it's uh a ton of fun.
SPEAKER_05 (50:46):
Well, I mean, just like you said with Formula One
too, like if fighting or FormulaOne or horse racing or whatever,
it's it's it's helps you likecompress evolution like really,
really quickly.
So a Formula One car todayversus in the 60s, it's you know
almost unrecognizable.
Um horses are faster with horse.
(51:07):
Sorry, I know nothing abouthorse racing, 101.
I assume they're faster.
SPEAKER_01 (51:12):
I I hear they put a bigger, uh bigger block engine
in the horse and it just made itgo a lot faster.
SPEAKER_05 (51:17):
There's no replacement for displacement.
Um but with robotics, like thebest way to make a better robot
is just beat the shit out of itand figure out where it breaks,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (51:25):
Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (51:27):
And that's people can come to Rec and they can
come to the store and they cansee robots, they can rent
robots, you're selling robots,like all kinds of different
things.
SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
Yeah, we we we sell humanoids, so we'll we'll have
four models of humanoid uh whenwe open.
Uh and then we'll be doing uhweekly fights uh that that uh in
person, and then we'll be doinga weekly live stream as well.
Um so it's gonna be just a tonof carnage, uh, as as much as I
(51:56):
can can make it happen.
Uh it's it's interesting.
Uh fighting robots are gonnahelp uh re reindustrialization
too.
Um, because right now I've gotto source a ton of parts uh from
China, and it takes a couple ofmonths to get them.
Uh and if I can get somebody tomanufacture that here in the US,
(52:17):
like I'm just gonna beconstantly ripping through
parts, right?
Like I'm gonna make them better,and then I'm gonna make the
robot punch harder, I'm gonnamake it kick harder, right?
And so it's this nice, like uhthis nice cycle.
SPEAKER_05 (52:30):
I'm excited for um for like uh you know a league to
come out where there's weightclasses or whatever, it's like
run while you brung, you know,go go build something in your
garage, go fight it on theweekend, and then spend a week
repairing it.
That's that's gonna be awesome.
I I will definitely participatein that.
Um so if people want to learnmore about rec and what you're
(52:50):
doing next, where should theygo?
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
Rek.com or the rec Twitter, which is just REK.
SPEAKER_05 (52:58):
How did you get a three-letter domain name?
That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (53:01):
Yeah, uh, that was just money.
Uh the the the uh rec uh Twitterwas actually uh we did a fight
for XAI and they loved it somuch that they gave us the the
Twitter handle.
SPEAKER_05 (53:16):
Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (53:17):
Yeah, awesome.
Also, Elon retweeted it, whichwas awesome.
Uh that helped.
SPEAKER_05 (53:22):
Yeah.
Okay, so so when when is thisopening?
Like when when can we startrenting and buying and fighting?
SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
It's gonna be you can rent and buy them today.
Uh it's just not from the storeyet.
Uh the store about two months.
SPEAKER_05 (53:36):
Okay.
Okay, dude.
That this is awesome.
Um oh, I'm supposed to ask youone more thing.
Sorry.
Uh yeah.
Uh what is what is your onepiece of advice to someone
listening to this podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (53:47):
It can be yeah, yeah.
My my one piece of advice is uhit's gonna be really hard and
you're gonna want to give up.
Don't uh go to bed or get morecaffeine and keep going.
SPEAKER_05 (54:02):
Cool.
I love it.
Um we have to do the same thinghere.
Usually it's usually it's acombination.
Usually it's like a shit ton ofcaffeine because I'm like, okay,
I'm gonna power through it.
Then you have like a weird dreamsleep.
Right.
And and then there's then theanswer comes to you.
So right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:18):
Arnold is known for the uh the coffee nap, so that's
uh it's it's effective.
SPEAKER_05 (54:25):
It works.
All right, thank you so much forbeing on.
Um, and then go to rec.com,r-ek.com, check everything out,
go on the rec Twitter, and thenthis is where Dom's lovely outro
will play.
Awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Do we have an outro?
Am I supposed to say something?
SPEAKER_00 (54:43):
Can you say like thanks for listening?
Love to have your feedback.
Find us uh on Insta and YouTubeat SendHutsen.
SPEAKER_05 (54:49):
Can we just use that?
SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
Thanks for joining us on today's episode.
If you have any questions,comments, or concerns, you can
email us at just gonna send itat sendkutsen.com or find us on
social at sendkutsend at gymbelow sick.
Don't forget to subscribe,download, and share your
friends.
Thanks again for listening.
Catch you on the next episode.
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