March 6, 2026 • 45 mins
On Episode 254 of K12 Tech Talk, Josh, Chris, and Mark break down Apple’s big announcement: the Mac Neo, a $499 laptop that many call a potential Chromebook killer. They compare specs, durability, repairability, management with Apple School Manager, resale value, and the extra operational costs and security considerations (EDR, content filtering, app installs) for school districts. The hosts debate whether the Neo could replace student Chromebooks or target staff and teacher devices first.
The episode also covers recent education tech news: a $1.1M California fine against PlayOn for deceptive data‑sharing practices, College Board’s ban on smart glasses during exams, and Arkansas HB78 proposing a ban on passive screen time in Pre‑K and Kindergarten with mandatory teacher training.
————
Sponsored by:
Meter - meter.com/k12techtalk Visit meter.com/k12techtalk to book a demo! Eaton -SysAdmin. You live it. You know it. But how well do your colleagues actually understand what makes these teams tick? Eaton’s on the scene to clear up any misconceptions. They designed A User’s Guide to SysAdmins to help demystify SysAdmins and improve workplace interactions. This guide addresses everyday challenges and misconceptions that Sysadmins face and teaches your colleagues how to interact with you (their SysAdmin), what you wish they knew (but are too polite to say), and how to get their tech tickets to the top of the list. So go ahead: Print it. Forward it. Leave it in the break room with passive-aggressive annotations. Or read it aloud like dramatic slam poetry during the next all-hands. Read A User’s Guide to SysAdmins here.
Incident IQ Lightspeed Systems Fortinet Managed Methods———— MidwestTechTalk Security Symposium/K12TechPro Meetup (Midwest) March 12th-13th, 2026
————
Join the K12TechPro Community (exclusively for K12 Tech professionals)
Buy some swag (tech dept gift boxes, shirts, hoodies...)!!!
Email us at k12techtalk@gmail.com
OR our "professional" email addy is info@k12techtalkpodcast.com
Visit our LinkedIn
Music by Colt Ball
Disclaimer: The views and work done by Josh, Chris, and Mark are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions or positions of sponsors or any respective employers or organizations associated with the guys. K12 Tech Talk itself does not endorse or validate the ideas, views, or statements expressed by Josh, Chris, and Mark's individual views and opinions are not representative of K12 Tech Talk. Furthermore, any references or mention of products, services, organizations, or individuals on K12 Tech Talk should not be considered as endorsements related to any employer or organization associated with the guys.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On this week's episode of the K-12 Tech Talk Podcast, we break down the big announcement
(00:05):
from Apple.
They're releasing the Mac Neo, a $500 MacBook that some are saying could take the place
of Chromebooks in school.
Could the Neo take a bite out of Chromebooks?
Thanks for listening.
Live from the NTP studios, this is the K-12 Tech Talk Podcast, episode 254.
(00:25):
We're just going to call it now.
This is going to be the Apple episode.
Oh, what?
What?
Producer?
Still no shipment from Apple?
Okay.
So we'll get into that in a little bit.
We're still waiting on that box of Neo devices to show up.
I am Josh, tech director here in mid-Missouri.
Hello, Chris.
How are you?
You're down the street.
What's up?
(00:46):
Or should I say down the river?
It's rain like crazy here.
Yeah, I swam home.
Did you?
Nice.
Don't have to shower tonight then.
And then we have Mark on the East Coast.
Hey.
Still shoveling out from snow and got the shovel again this week.
That's craziness.
Yeah.
So, guys, how you been?
It's been a week since we've seen each other.
(01:07):
Anything fun and exciting going on?
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing is happening in the world right now.
Nothing has happened since we last met.
I did some E-rate.
Yeah.
I'm waiting on my E-rate to go out of in review.
They haven't looked at it yet.
I've been dinged.
I did mine and I got two emails back.
(01:28):
Seriously?
Yeah.
Within a day or two, actually.
What'd you ask for?
UPS?
Yes.
And are they giving you trouble over the UPS?
They just asked questions because I sent them the proposal, the contract, and they want
me to write up what I typed in, but on the contract actually write up each of the part
(01:51):
items and to what building and the dollar amount.
And that's going to take a little bit of time.
Yeah.
And then just my category one, got to ask on it.
I do the old school thing where I literally look at what I did the year prior and I just
(02:12):
copy paste.
Yeah.
Whether, even if there's a change, because I know that the year prior was pretty close.
It's going to hit.
Right?
And it's a continuation of contract.
So they didn't like maybe the example bill I gave that had a little bit of variance to
it.
So now they want clarification.
Interesting.
I usually have my ISP reach out and ask why I filed it the way I did.
(02:34):
Yeah.
Pretty much every single year they do that to me, but I've been filing the same way I
file for like 20 years.
So I'm not changing.
I've never not gotten it.
So I'm an old hat with it.
I just copy paste the thing.
It's funny you say that because I, my category one was internet as well.
(02:57):
And it got, it went wave ready, like within 24 hours, but, and it was a continuation of
last year cause it was a three year contract and I got one year left in it.
So it was like you said, exactly the same stuff.
I went and looked at the numbers, just everything's the same and you can copy the FRN forward
now with that nice button.
It makes it super easy.
But I got, I got an email from the carrier saying, Hey, those numbers are wrong.
(03:21):
It's, you know, we actually charge you less.
I'm like, I don't care.
The contract says it was for this because if I, if I don't put in the number that's
in the contract, PIA is going to get upset.
Like no, I let you sack, tell me that they want to change the number, but I could care
less what ISP says because they're going to bill you what they're going to bill you like,
(03:42):
and I'm not going to get more money than I'm supposed to.
Like it's going to be with these bills.
Yeah.
Mark, do you miss E-rate?
Nope.
Yeah.
I figured.
Did you do E-rate or did you guys have a consultant that did it?
We actually switched.
So the first, you know, five years or so that I was in the job, we did it in house.
And then the last five years we switched to outside.
(04:04):
There's benefits to both, but I strongly, strongly recommend an outside provider to
help out.
All right.
Chris, do you want to hit a sponsor real quick before we get into the news?
I do.
We have Eaton hanging out with us for several weeks.
And they want to talk to the sysadmins out there.
They say you live it, you know it, and they want to help you.
(04:25):
And there's some misconceptions about what sysadmins do sometimes.
So they have this, a user's guide to sysadmins that they want to help sysadmins improve workspace,
workplace interactions.
I don't know what all that means, but that's pretty fun to think through.
I guess sometimes, yeah, like sometimes we come off passive aggressive.
(04:49):
Antisocial can't make eye contact.
I think that's what they're hinting at here.
So they have a user's guide to sysadmins.
I've gotten worse about eye contact.
I've noticed it lately.
It's gotten really bad.
What do you do about it?
Do you feel it in your head?
Like you know, I'm not looking at this person.
Yeah.
Like it's it.
(05:09):
Yeah.
And then you don't want to be the weirdo that's making like inappropriate eye contact for
awkwardly long moments of time.
You overcompensate.
You're like, oh, I'm not looking.
So you make deep eye contact.
Your eyes are real wide and you don't blink.
You lick your lips slowly.
No, I don't think that's in Eaton's, in Eaton's guide on how to become a better coworker.
(05:34):
No, I don't.
I don't think that made the cut.
I'm going to go on a limb here and say Eaton may not be renewing their, their sponsorship.
I think we're just in, is this the second or third episodes?
We can fix this still.
They're laughing.
They're laughing right now.
Yes.
Yeah.
It says it's a guide to a things you wish you knew, but we're too polite to say.
(05:54):
I think it's right.
I think it's exactly what we're talking about.
Eye contact.
Yeah.
And they do battery backups, UPSs, all that kind of power management stuff.
Anyway, maybe there's some news.
Mark, is there a, is there some news this week?
Little bit of news.
Yeah.
(06:15):
So we're going into a company called Play On Sports.
They do a lot of athletic type technologies.
So if it's game streaming or tickets to sporting events, this guy hit with a $1.1 million fine
for violating data privacy laws out of California.
So this is an area that, you know, we've, we've all kind of dabbled in the athletics
technologies and streaming cameras, all those kinds of things.
(06:36):
You kind of have to, but there's an area that makes me uncomfortable.
It's when you get into fundraising and ticket sales and you start having money moving around.
And so this is where Play On Sports got in a little bit of trouble because they provide
digital ticketing platforms.
So kids can buy tickets to your school sporting events or, or it can be free, but it will
(06:56):
handle the tickets.
And that's not necessarily the problem, but because you're in this gray area where you're
kind of in school and kind of outside of school, the laws aren't very clear.
And Play On pushed the bar a little bit too far here and had some aggressive practices
to encourage students, assuming students and parents who are going to games, to opt into
(07:18):
data sharing.
And then they would have their data shared with advertisers.
And they did this through some rather shady practices where they would hide the opt in
button on a banner that covered your ticket.
So you had to click it in order to see your ticket to the sporting event.
And the California Privacy Protection Agency hit them with a fine saying, no, this was,
(07:38):
this was not okay.
This was unfair practices.
You need to have clear ways of opting in and opting out.
So it's an area that was not explicitly about education data, but this is a tool or a system
that is used in an educational environment.
And that's where I think we need to keep our eyes out on the other types of tools and systems
(08:00):
that we have being used.
Yeah, thankfully, we still, at least during regular season, we still do cash admittance.
We don't do e-tickets or anything like that.
The only time e-tickets come into play is during playoffs when our state athletic association
kicks in.
(08:20):
And actually, all of those transactions take place through the state organization, and
the state organization pays the schools their cut of money.
So thankfully, and I don't, I don't even think our athletic director is even entertained
really the idea for regular season stuff doing any sort of e-ticket, because I can't say
we've ever really sold out a game because our stadium is rather large.
(08:46):
So hopefully, hopefully we don't have to go down that road.
Chris, you don't, you guys don't do e-tickets, do you?
No.
And I was just reading this article to this line from CPPA's head of enforcement, students
trying to go to prom or a high school football game shouldn't have to leave their privacy
rights at the door.
You know, if you're a school district that's running this like prom, it's prom season,
(09:08):
a teenager is not going to, they wouldn't click the opt-in, opt-out thing anyway, but
let alone hide it behind something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, that feels shady pretty quickly.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's shady in general, but to also be doing that with a platform that
you know is being used by students just adds a layer of unfortunate shadiness.
(09:29):
All right.
You got any other shady news stories, Mark?
Lots of shady things.
College board has officially banned smart classes.
So Josh, we talked about this.
You had this issue a few months ago, and now we're starting to see all the assessment platforms
say, no, no, no, no, no, you're not gonna be wearing smart glasses while taking a test.
You know, it's funny for as big of a deal as that was for about a two week period.
(09:55):
I can't say that I've heard a peep about it since then.
Like it was right before Christmas and they sent out those messages to parents saying,
hey, don't let your kids come to school with them.
We're going to send them home.
Yada, yada, yada.
I don't, I, and we even had an admin meeting today, um, and that, that has not come up
in discussion in admin meeting for quite a while.
Now turning off Chromebook cameras is all the rage and major discussion in my district
(10:20):
right now, but that's a different topic.
I think it goes to show that the vast majority of people think that recording glasses are
creepy.
Yeah.
And if you're, if you've been on social media at all, and today, today's what, uh, March
5th, there are a number of stories from Metta, uh, employees concerned about the content
(10:44):
that the glasses are uploading to Metta servers.
So if you want, if you want a disgusting read.
Are you talking about like take a phone call, like in the bathroom kind of stuff?
Yeah.
Recording with the glasses in rather confidential scenarios, we'll just say, okay, moving on.
I said confidential.
That was good.
(11:04):
It was very well done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Last one.
We talked about a couple laws out of Tennessee last week.
I've got one out of Arkansas.
Very similar.
I actually really, really liked this law.
I think this one for me, I would like, love to see past and expand, but it is one about
screen time.
So HB 78 out down in Arkansas, this would require early childhood centers, pre-kindergarten
(11:32):
and kindergarten classrooms to effectively ban screen time, uh, for younger students.
There's a couple of things in here that I really like about this though.
The first is they were very explicit by saying that, no, we're not going to allow you to
have a TV on in the background, right?
Teacher can use technology, but you're not going to just throw something on in the background
(11:54):
and have this like passive, uh, screen time.
So they really attack active versus passive use of technology and just say, it's time
that we eliminate passive screen time from early childhood and in pre-k classrooms.
That would be big.
Just from the early childhood teachers that I know, and I live with one, it, I'll just,
(12:23):
I'll just say this.
There are times when YouTube or whatever is played on their projector, calming music,
what are you know, like thinking in your type music.
You could still do that with the projector off, I guess, if you're, if the goal really
was just the music and the calming sensation that, you know, that meditative type music,
(12:46):
but that, that would be a paradigm shift for a lot of teachers, I think.
And I'm kind of scared by that, right?
Like if you think about this, it is very common for videos to be as just a passive screen
somewhere in the room, either at home or sometimes in these early childhood centers and classrooms.
(13:06):
And you're, you're building a habit for kids to get more and more addicted to a screen
being on.
So I think that's a good move.
But let's define that too.
It's not like they're just spacing out and staring at a screen either, it's especially
early childhood rooms.
There's always something going on.
(13:28):
It's more for the background noise than it is the background visual, I guess, if that
makes sense.
I don't know.
I had a coworker who always listened to music on YouTube and he'd go, I know you hate me
because I'm taking all your bandwidth for YouTube to be on the background.
But I understand that the interface of YouTube was just easier to find music and search through
and stuff.
(13:49):
And that's what his, his point was, is that it just, it always selects the right song
next.
So that's a problem for kindergarten classrooms.
If that's what they're trying to do, you can fix that by just not having the projector
on by not having the TV on.
You're putting this as music in the background, even if you still want to use streaming video.
I like it.
I like it.
(14:09):
The other thing that I do like about this one is that they require training for all
teachers to go through mandatory training from the state on screen time and screen time
dangers and limits.
So it's good to see that they're not just implementing rules.
They're talking about wanting to make sure that educators understand the reason for those
rules.
So I'm in favor of HB 78.
I think it's a great, great start.
(14:30):
And it's, it's kindergarten and below.
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah.
And they really highlight a lot of childcare centers as well.
I think that tends to be a bigger focus of the, of the law.
I could see that.
Cause they kind of skirt, you know, most of these rules that Desi state, state Desi departments
come out with, yes, accredited daycares are under Desi in most states, but a lot of these
(14:55):
rules don't apply to them because they don't have one-to-one programs.
They're not doing free and reduced lunch programs.
You know, like, so it, it would be interesting to see that actually apply to outside daycares,
non public ed daycares.
Yeah.
And their, their enforcement is their childcare facility licensing.
So if you're not compliant with this law, you could have your, your license pulled.
(15:19):
Interesting.
That's it for the news.
I know we've got one more big story, but that's our main topic in a few minutes.
Let me talk about a meter.
So a meter delivers full stack networking infrastructure.
They can do your wired, your wireless and your cellular.
They can help you and they'll, they'll, they'll just work with you.
So they'll help you with your design, your deployment, they'll help you manage your stuff.
(15:40):
They'll help you figure out your ISP, what your DNS security needs to be.
All that good stuff.
So check out meter it's meter.com slash K-12 tech talk.
You can book a demo with them again, meter.com slash K-12 tech talk.
Yeah.
So the big news, if I guess, if you've been under a rock for the last, what was this was
(16:03):
announced yesterday?
Yeah.
Apple had their big event yesterday and they announced the Mac Neo, the new we'll just
call it the Chromebook killer.
Um, 499 for education for the base model.
Are you out of your mind?
499?
The specs are actually pretty beefy.
(16:25):
Um, we can, we'll get into that in a minute, but I guys, my, my early take on this, I think
it's going to take some time, a cycle or two, but I think this is going to start a shift.
I think this is going to get legs.
Mark, do you have the, you have the specs, you've been doing some research.
(16:48):
You said you were watching MKBHD's video and review.
Yeah.
A few, a few YouTubers have done videos.
I haven't watched all of them, but I know the big ones, Linus and MKBHD, I never got
the MKBHD have both mentioned this as a Chromebook targeted device.
So they're looking for that genre of people who are looking for that five, $600 laptop
(17:12):
range.
Multiple people online and on YouTube have mentioned, Hey, this is going after the Chromebooks.
So is it going after the Chromebook?
Is it a comparable device?
Uh, what do you think?
I spec wise, I think it's a stronger device from standard Chromebooks that, you know,
four gig of Ram, 32 gig of storage or 64 gig storage.
(17:37):
Cause the base model on this has eight gig of Ram, right.
And a 256 gig SSD in it.
Now also running Mac OS versus Chrome OS.
So a real operating system versus just a browser.
If, if you want to call Chrome OS that I think one of the things that I would have to get
(17:59):
over with this spec wise, hardware wise, it's running on the a, is it a 18 chips, which
is the same chip that the iPhone 16 currently running.
So, but, but, you know, to that argument, Chromebooks are typically running Celeron
processors that are very low spec or, um, Oh, what AMD processors that are super low.
(18:26):
What's the other one?
The other, the other processor line for Chromebooks.
I can't think of the only one you're going to be able to buy because you can't buy Intel's
right now.
Starts with an M not micro tick.
Anyway, we're talking mobile device processor style processors, right?
So, so it's likely that that, that a chip instead of the M, you know, M three or M four
(18:48):
chip will be fine, but you're still running a full blown operating system.
You're still running Mac OS off this chip that is typically in a phone or an iPad.
So I have some, I have some questions performance wise there, media tech, media, AMD, Intel
and media tech.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So talk about price.
Yes, it's four 99, but again, if you've been living under a rock, I have some bad news
(19:14):
for you.
Chromebooks are going to be expensive this next cycle and probably for the next two or
three cycles.
So yeah, that four 99 is, is a little bit higher than what you would pay for an Asus
or a CTL Chromebook or HP Chromebook, but you're not factoring in a case.
You're not factoring in the Google management license.
(19:36):
You're not, you know, like there are several things there cost wise, um, because I, they're
saying ASM has had enhancements to it that you can do a lot of the same restrictions
and stuff like that with Apple school manager, ASM, um, that you can with similarly with
Chrome OS and Google management license or Google management console.
(19:58):
Eric, the intern used to banter with me about even the previous low in Mac book compared
to a Chromebook.
The, the trade in value, the buyback value of an Apple product being higher.
He used to try to get there with me that it already made sense to, to go Apple, uh, because
(20:19):
of that buyback, let alone, you know, a reduced price now.
Yeah.
I mean the resale value of a Mac in comparison to, to other devices is it's night and day
that the Macs do hold their value a little bit longer.
It will be interesting if this Neo does the same thing because again, it is a lower, it's
a, it's a step below the, the air, the Mac book air.
(20:42):
The other question that I have is filtering a number of filters out there struggle with
filtering via an installed application.
And by that I mean on a Chromebook it's done via force installed extension to do that same
thing on a windows platform or Mac iOS platform, you have to stall, install a package or an
(21:05):
application and get all that set up and running.
Some filters really struggle with that.
So until that, some of these filter companies are gonna have to step their game up and pour
money into development for those installed applications to function as well as their
force installed extensions do.
(21:25):
Then I think the conversation becomes, do you still install, do you run off Safari or
do you install Chrome on these devices and run off Chrome?
All right.
You, you've laid out a whole bunch of, whole bunch of points here.
Let's, let's break it down one by one.
So durability and, and cost, yes, it is clearly more durable than existing Chromebooks.
(21:48):
That was the main point of, of some of the Apple announcements.
Are you at the point though, where you think that students would take care of this to the
level of wanting to buy a more expensive device, regardless of it being made of aluminum, be
more durable?
Do you think that the care and maintenance is there in your communities to warrant paying
more?
(22:08):
Yes, because I wouldn't buy a case because I'm spending an extra 20, 25 bucks with a
Chromebook to buy a cheap plexiglass clay case that does no good.
And I could forego that knowing the device was built out of aluminum.
There's a little, I think there is a discussion around that, about skipping buying the case.
(22:30):
Okay.
Chris, how about you?
Chris?
Yeah.
And there was a guy in pro, I don't remember who it was, but their school had ditched cases
on Chromebooks and saw their, you know, break rate didn't change.
Yeah.
This is an example of a school making the decision based upon data.
They pulled their cases.
They did a year with it.
They saw what cost savings they still had despite not having cases.
(22:51):
So then they stuck with it.
I think there's a cultural thing with that.
Like I have a hard time wrapping my head around that a kid drops a device and it cracks and
we're going to make a decision with a parent guardian on a charge or not.
And then we're saying that we didn't issue a case.
(23:11):
It feels irresponsible.
Even if the data backed up that it doesn't matter, it just, it's a harder conversation
that we don't do cases kind of thing.
I had shown you guys this and I can't cite who it came from, but on LinkedIn, someone
posted about Chromebook, rough through your cost, about $275 to $375.
(23:32):
You throw in Chrome management, $30, $40 bucks.
You might get $30, $50 bucks back at resale.
So that's net somewhere around $255, $355.
Same MacBook Neo, $499, Apple School Managers, $0.
But you're going to get about $180 to $220 back.
That puts that net at about $275, $319.
(23:54):
Again, these are actually comparable devices now.
The hardware thing that is most interesting to me for some reason, and I think it's smart,
is that they're doing USB 2 and USB 3.
We don't have to swap out chargers in our districts.
We're just ripping out devices and putting in MacBooks.
(24:16):
I think that was the correct choice.
USB-C adapters, yeah.
There's nothing crazy there.
Even the standard headphone jack is there.
There's nothing crazy.
Apple's not trying to be jerks about buying their stuff.
They're making it for a school.
What I thought was interesting is Apple publishes the repairability grid, which is actually
a law in France, where France requires electronics companies to provide the repairability score.
(24:40):
It's a neutral third-party validation.
The repairability of the Apple Neo is higher than the normal MacBook and MacBook Air, MacBook
Pro, because they're using less glue.
They're using more screws in replacement of glue.
I think that in doing so, they are aiming at schools specifically with that particular
(25:01):
issue, because they know that schools have to repair the keyboard and repair the screen.
They have made the MacBook Neo slightly more repairable than your average Mac.
It's still not at the repairability score of your traditional Chromebook, but it is
a slight move in the right direction for repairability.
(25:22):
I think that's going to be the most critical thing for schools.
If you're running a student tech team that's repairing Chromebooks, and now all of a sudden
you're going to adopt a Mac Neo, if you can't repair it, that's a massive consideration
for a school.
Agreed.
Apple School Manager, ASN that you had mentioned.
I know when we first launched it years ago, it was a disaster.
(25:43):
But when you talk to people who are fully into Apple School Manager today, they will
tell you that it's phenomenal, it's great.
So I do think that Apple has cracked the code on school management, knowing that that is
also a significant factor.
So you've got the repairability, the durability, the cost is approaching what schools might
want to see, especially when Chris, you mentioned the resale value.
(26:04):
I think this really takes a bite out of districts moving from Apple to Chromebook because of
cost.
I think this gives them a step where they can be met in the middle.
I don't know though, if this is enough for districts to consider a full switch from Chromebook
to Apple because of this.
(26:24):
I'll add to that, Mark.
I think those districts that adopted iPads early on and are now in that refresh cycle,
I think this is an easy conversation for them.
They're staying in that ecosystem.
So yes, things change a little bit, but they're still in ASM and Mozilla and those types of
(26:45):
environments.
So I think this is huge for those districts that are iPads and looking to transition away
from that touchscreen type modality.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I think there will be a number of districts look very,
very hard at this over the next 12 to 24 months.
(27:07):
I don't know budgeting cycle.
We're kind of in the middle of budgeting now, so I don't know if it's going to be in the
next 12 months, but I think we're going to hear of a number of districts make this jump.
I have two things to that.
One is a sponsor.
Check out IncidentIQ.
IncidentIQ is your IT service management platform built for schools.
(27:29):
They can integrate your help desk, your asset tracking workflows, reporting all into one
system.
Check out IncidentIQ.
I think Google needs to pay attention more than ever.
Then this whole, the Chrome OS is moving and merging with Android.
If that ball gets fumbled, you're going to have people taking a big look at moving to
(27:56):
Apple.
Google needs to do that shift correctly, or you could see a lot of text just being like,
I'm over that stuff.
I didn't like Android before.
I sure don't like it now.
This is the reason that they would jump to Apple.
I do think though that the Mac Neo takes a massive bite out of the Chromebook Plus market.
(28:20):
Google has been trying to market a more expensive, more durable, more staff-ready, teacher-ready
Chromebook and those are at the $500, $600, $700 mark.
I think if you put a Chromebook in front of a teacher and an equally priced MacBook, they're
going to take the MacBook any day over the Chromebook.
I think that this takes a big bite out of the employee staff Chromebook market and then
(28:45):
who knows?
Maybe that then works its way down to students.
Boy, you got my head spinning there, Mark.
Districts that have taken the jump, like my wife's district, that are all in on staff
laptops.
There are no desktops in classrooms.
It is a laptop for every teacher.
Is that a Windows laptop or Chrome or what?
(29:07):
Windows.
It's a Dell pick-your-model latitude, which now doesn't exist, enterprise, whatever.
Is that a conversation point?
Because you know those nicer business-style laptops are $1,000 plus.
Will a Neo fit that need for a classroom's teacher laptop?
(29:31):
You're immediately going to save half, immediately.
If you spend another $100, you get more storage and a fingerprint reader and the power button.
You have built-in MFA on the device.
Mac Airs, which is their entry-level model, have already gone up in price.
Those are at $1,100 a piece.
(29:53):
If there are districts and even just on the consumer side saying, hey, that's a little
too much.
I'm going to start to look at a Chromebook Plus.
Now all of a sudden, you've got a MacBook that is taking that away.
I like the idea.
My teachers have a Windows laptop and then we have student Chromebooks.
If you were to ask my teachers what else they want, they always say an iPad.
(30:17):
They would love an iPad in addition to their Windows laptop.
But if I was just to give them a MacBook and kill off the Windows stuff, that's a cool
world.
That reminds me of that school.
I think it was in Indiana that had the iPad.
Every teacher had an iPad and a Chromebook, I think it was, with a document camera thing.
(30:41):
That sets up that world to get rid of Windows.
Going back to Chromebook Plus, if I look at the Chromebook Plus device that I have, which
is just a fancier, nicer Chromebook, but it's still a Chromebook, and just let my eyes determine
what I want.
I want the stinking MacBook.
(31:02):
All day.
Yeah.
I've been running, transparency's sake, I bought a MacBook Air back in August.
And I bought it really for the battery life.
Battery life is amazing.
Chromebook Plus versus MacBook Air, yeah, I'm gravitating, because I have both in my
backpack.
It's a heavy damn backpack.
I'm gravitating to the MacBook Air.
(31:25):
Has there ever been a sexy Chromebook?
Has there ever been one?
Can we say sexy?
I think we can.
There's never been one.
I don't know that I would say that.
Yeah.
I don't know that I would say there's been a sexy Chromebook.
Mark really likes his Chromebook.
Mark's leaving.
I think he's getting his sexy Chromebook.
He's got it.
(31:46):
Yeah, he's got a pixel, I think.
I'll wait till he gets back to ask my next question.
Chris, to your point about that resellability, I've seen that on LinkedIn as well.
And if you're on LinkedIn, God, that stupid Apple video for the Neo, it is every other
post.
I don't know how much Apple is paying these people to post this, but that Neo announcement
(32:09):
video is every other post on LinkedIn.
I don't know that we would be in that same boat to expect a resale value in those devices,
because we're running our devices into the ground.
We're going extended support on everything.
Yes, that's a discussion point, but for us anyway, and I'm sure other districts are in
(32:33):
the same boat, I don't know how big that's a factor.
My other question, and I have not seen many people bring this up, if you're buying a device
with a real OS on it, are you also buying an EDR license for that device?
Because that's a cost that I'm not seeing factored in any of these discussion points.
(32:56):
That's 40 bucks a year added on to the bottom to the cost of that device now, because it's
a real operating system.
And yes, Macs get viruses.
Yeah.
And management and tech departments headspace on that they have more devices that they had
that risk on now.
Now the first answer, the first comment that I got about, well, now you have to buy Mozilla
(33:20):
was no, you can do a lot of it in ASM now.
Like a lot of those device settings that we're doing with Google Admin Console and Chromebooks
can be done inside ASM.
I was talking with somebody today that's leveraging it heavily for a fleet of MacBooks in a lab
and said ASM has come light years in the last year or two.
(33:43):
So I'm going to say it.
I'm going to ask my boss if we can buy a couple of these to play with in my department to
get our hands around them.
Well, Mark is going to show us his sexy Chromebook.
And then I'm going to reveal, I emailed the Apple person we know to ask if we could get
(34:06):
our hands on these.
And I'm going to let you know what the person said back.
Do you remember this?
This is the Pixelbook.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
A thousand dollar Chromebook.
It was a good Chromebook.
It died one week into COVID, though, so.
It did, really?
That was a good looking device.
It was a good looking one, yeah.
But it was a thousand dollars.
But I would never put it in the hands of a middle school student.
(34:28):
And I think that is going to be a very, very big point that a lot of IT departments are
saying is like, this is really nice.
But the nicer it is, the less likely I want to put this into a classroom and then have
to repair a dozen broken screens and keyboards.
But it's aluminum, Mark.
They're made out of aluminum.
It's not the case I'm worried about.
It's the keys and it's the screen.
(34:50):
Aluminum, Mark.
It's, hey, listen.
It's forged from Mount Doom, Mark.
Come on.
I emailed the Apple person that I know.
I said, probably a long shot.
But if you have the hookup for three NEOs for the KTOL Tech Talk podcast, we will demo
them.
(35:10):
Oh, and what'd she say, no?
And she said, I'm getting one.
I'll see you at Midwest Tech Talk.
I might bring it with me to show you.
That's it.
We don't know.
That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a nice, that's a nice way to say no.
Thanks Apple.
No.
So you can have one, but I'll show you mine.
(35:36):
This is not K-12 related, but you know who else this is perfect for?
In-laws.
Yes.
In-laws and grandparents.
Oh, that's a very good point.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
My mother-in-law struggles with her Chromebook.
Like we got a Chromebook because it's very simple.
It's just Chrome, but she still struggles with it.
(35:56):
I really wonder if this would, if this would help.
I'm very interested to see if Apple had talked about this at all, is the idea that students
don't like the laptops they're forced to use.
Student perceptions of Chromebooks are very, very low and Google's own internal data that
was in that article a few weeks ago has shown that students do not graduate high school
and go out and buy an Android or a Chromebook.
(36:19):
So I think Apple is also very carefully walking into this saying, we don't want to have our
Apple device turn into the thorn in a student's side and then have them think negatively of
Apple devices.
I don't think that's going to happen, but all, all it takes is one or two, all it takes
is one or two tick tockers to, to show that they got a Neo and Bob's your uncle and they've
(36:44):
Apple stock shoots up $20 a share and every school has them.
There's four different colors.
I know.
Like your kids, like, no, let your students buy.
Nope.
Absolutely not.
Nope.
We would do a survey before you order.
Nope.
We would standardize on a color.
You're going to go silver.
(37:04):
Yep.
And it turns into an argument.
I do.
I do like these devices.
I think.
I think I do too.
We're going to like hell is freezing over by me saying that, but I think it's a move
towards taking over Chromebooks.
But all the things that we talked about in terms of the repairability, your network filter,
your security software, your management, all of those are big hurdles to get over.
(37:29):
And if you can get over those hurdles, I think this is a very appetizing device.
Well, and the EDR thing is real math to add in.
Yeah.
And again, your tech department taking on that extra burden.
My tech department doesn't.
We feel the burden of Chromebooks, yes, but not so much in regards to the pressure we
feel from cybersecurity on the window side of the house.
(37:51):
So think through that.
Yeah.
So then, yeah.
So then does that open a conversation of you're buying two different EDRs, a cheap EDR for
your student devices and a robust EDR from NTP for your windows, for your staff devices?
Then you got two different platforms, two different consoles.
(38:13):
That's a thing.
We did it.
Our staff were on MacBooks and it was an expensive cost.
And so I think this would be very enticing for the district and our students were on
Chromebooks.
It worked out really well.
Our teachers really liked and respected having MacBooks.
So I think that's a very enticing thing for districts to think about, at least first.
I would agree with you.
Yeah.
(38:33):
If you can make it work and think of the other things that allows you to do too.
Like if you're a window shop now, you could dump Active Directory for a lot of things.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You crazy boy.
You've gone too far right there.
Well, I mean, if you're a district that has no internal file shares, what are you really
(38:59):
using Active Directory for?
You know, we allowed you to say that you don't mind moving from a Chromebook to Mac.
But when you said dumping Active Directory, you lost us.
This episode is over.
You could talk about Google, but you will not talk about Active Directory like that.
Whatever.
One time in high school, my friends and I, we were sitting on the back row in English
(39:25):
class and the teacher was making us watch Romeo and Juliet.
We had just read through it.
And it was like an old movie of Romeo and Juliet.
And she allowed nudity on the TV screen, which high school boys did not handle that well.
So we were laughing.
And she said, you can make fun of me, but you will not make fun of William Shakespeare.
(39:47):
Anyway, did she understand that you weren't laughing at William Shakespeare?
I don't know.
And then I told my parents.
And then the next day, they made me apologize to the teacher.
Wow.
That's funny.
Wow.
Yeah.
But then something with that.
She wrote us up and I got Saturday school for a day, all because of sitting in the wrong
seat, Romeo and Juliet laughing at nudity.
(40:09):
That's my story time.
Story time, Chris.
How does it relate to this?
I said, you will not make fun of Active Directory.
And that triggered a memory of high school.
To this day, he giggles when there's nudity in movies, Romeo and Juliet.
He can't watch Romeo and Juliet to this day.
Yeah.
He giggles like a sophomore.
(40:31):
I don't know.
I think this is going to be interesting to your track, I think.
Is this email us?
Let us know.
Is this the Chromebook killer?
Are you going to entertain?
I think I'm going to buy three of these if Apple doesn't come through.
I'm going to buy three of them.
Your mom?
No.
My department.
(40:52):
Oh.
And we're going to void the warranty right away.
Sorry, Josh's mom.
And see how repairable they are.
Yeah.
Mark, you going to get one?
You know, I always have to think about like, when this laptop dies, what am I going to
go to next?
If that laptop dies tomorrow, I might take a look.
(41:12):
$4.99, man.
Well, $5.99 because you're not an educational institution.
I don't know.
I think I'm Google for life.
Well, you can still be Google.
I still want to change.
I mean, we know you have the tattoo on your lower back of the Google logo, but...
G-O.
Oh, gee, Ellie.
(41:33):
You can still you can still use Google Workspace.
It's just the platform for delivery is different.
The only feelings you're hurting there is ASUS, HP, and Dell.
You're not hurting Google's feelings.
It's like we're breaking up, Google.
But you know what?
You share YouTube and all that stuff we've been talking about.
(41:55):
This is the perfect time for Apple to announce this.
Yes.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Processor prices and the YouTube drama and screen, you know, whether this was calculated
or not, it's it's a good time to do it.
Well, Josh, you also raised a good point.
Don't don't screw up the Android conversion.
Oh, that was Chris's point.
(42:18):
But yeah, I'm I'm still worried about that.
Like that.
Hopefully, I'm retired before that actually becomes a thing.
We'll chase in that when you could turn on the Android store and I got like excited for
like a day that I turned it on and it was awful, awful.
And I was like, this is why I've never liked Android.
Whatever.
(42:38):
It's a superior phone.
I mean, I have conceived that could be its own episode.
I'm concerned about what that what that move looks like.
I don't know.
Mark, don't give that look.
You have an Android.
You have a pixel.
I'm not getting into this fight.
We're pixel bros, Mark.
I know this.
I don't care what my phone is.
(42:59):
Don't bring me into the Android iPhone fight.
I'm sorry I made the group chat into a green bubble.
I apologize.
It sucks.
Get on WhatsApp.
Anyway, get off.
Yeah, whatever.
Chris, you want to hit our final sponsors for the night?
I do.
So we have Midwest Tech Talk Security Symposium next week.
(43:19):
Mark, you're coming to Missouri.
Josh, are you showing up?
I don't know if you are or not.
Yeah, I'm going to drive up that morning.
Josh, who never registers or anything, hey, hey, and the new guy was just talking about
Josh today.
He was telling Nathan, our other new guy, Josh will probably be there.
He'll just show up and be like, can I get a badge or a bag?
(43:41):
Like Josh just shows up.
I won't ask for a bag.
I won't.
No, that's rude.
I won't ask for a bag.
So we'll be there.
But anyway, that conference and the trips that we've been taking are thanks to our listeners,
but thanks to our sponsors, in particular Fortinet.
Get all your Forta needs, your FortiGate, your FortiAnalyzer, your FortiToken from Fortinet.
(44:01):
You can email Fortinetpodcast at Fortinet.com.
Thanks to Manage Methods, ManageMethods.com, David over there.
You can get on their website, click to get a free trial, a free audit.
They can look at your Google environment.
They can help out with student safety.
They can do your content filter as well.
They can look at your Windows environment, your Office 365 stuff as well.
(44:24):
All about student safety, all about safety in general.
And then last but not least is Lightspeed, a great content filter.
It's what I use at my school district.
Check out Lightspeed for your content filter needs.
They have that signal product and more as well.
That's it, boys.
All right, well, shoot us an email.
(44:44):
Let us know your thoughts on the Mac Neo Chromebook Killer.
We'll see you next week.
The views and opinions expressed on the K-12 Tech Talk podcast are the personal opinions
(45:08):
of Josh, Chris, and Mark, and do not represent the views or opinions of our sponsors or other
organizations that we're affiliated with.
The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment
purposes only.
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.
On this week's episode of the K-12 Tech Talk Podcast, we break down the big announcement
(00:05):
from Apple.
They're releasing the Mac Neo, a $500 MacBook that some are saying could take the place
of Chromebooks in school.
Could the Neo take a bite out of Chromebooks?
Thanks for listening.
Live from the NTP studios, this is the K-12 Tech Talk Podcast, episode 254.
(00:25):
We're just going to call it now.
This is going to be the Apple episode.
Oh, what?
What?
Producer?
Still no shipment from Apple?
Okay.
So we'll get into that in a little bit.
We're still waiting on that box of Neo devices to show up.
I am Josh, tech director here in mid-Missouri.
Hello, Chris.
How are you?
You're down the street.
What's up?
(00:46):
Or should I say down the river?
It's rain like crazy here.
Yeah, I swam home.
Did you?
Nice.
Don't have to shower tonight then.
And then we have Mark on the East Coast.
Hey.
Still shoveling out from snow and got the shovel again this week.
That's craziness.
Yeah.
So, guys, how you been?
It's been a week since we've seen each other.
(01:07):
Anything fun and exciting going on?
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing is happening in the world right now.
Nothing has happened since we last met.
I did some E-rate.
Yeah.
I'm waiting on my E-rate to go out of in review.
They haven't looked at it yet.
I've been dinged.
I did mine and I got two emails back.
(01:28):
Seriously?
Yeah.
Within a day or two, actually.
What'd you ask for?
UPS?
Yes.
And are they giving you trouble over the UPS?
They just asked questions because I sent them the proposal, the contract, and they want
me to write up what I typed in, but on the contract actually write up each of the part
(01:51):
items and to what building and the dollar amount.
And that's going to take a little bit of time.
Yeah.
And then just my category one, got to ask on it.
I do the old school thing where I literally look at what I did the year prior and I just
(02:12):
copy paste.
Yeah.
Whether, even if there's a change, because I know that the year prior was pretty close.
It's going to hit.
Right?
And it's a continuation of contract.
So they didn't like maybe the example bill I gave that had a little bit of variance to
it.
So now they want clarification.
Interesting.
I usually have my ISP reach out and ask why I filed it the way I did.
(02:34):
Yeah.
Pretty much every single year they do that to me, but I've been filing the same way I
file for like 20 years.
So I'm not changing.
I've never not gotten it.
So I'm an old hat with it.
I just copy paste the thing.
It's funny you say that because I, my category one was internet as well.
(02:57):
And it got, it went wave ready, like within 24 hours, but, and it was a continuation of
last year cause it was a three year contract and I got one year left in it.
So it was like you said, exactly the same stuff.
I went and looked at the numbers, just everything's the same and you can copy the FRN forward
now with that nice button.
It makes it super easy.
But I got, I got an email from the carrier saying, Hey, those numbers are wrong.
(03:21):
It's, you know, we actually charge you less.
I'm like, I don't care.
The contract says it was for this because if I, if I don't put in the number that's
in the contract, PIA is going to get upset.
Like no, I let you sack, tell me that they want to change the number, but I could care
less what ISP says because they're going to bill you what they're going to bill you like,
(03:42):
and I'm not going to get more money than I'm supposed to.
Like it's going to be with these bills.
Yeah.
Mark, do you miss E-rate?
Nope.
Yeah.
I figured.
Did you do E-rate or did you guys have a consultant that did it?
We actually switched.
So the first, you know, five years or so that I was in the job, we did it in house.
And then the last five years we switched to outside.
(04:04):
There's benefits to both, but I strongly, strongly recommend an outside provider to
help out.
All right.
Chris, do you want to hit a sponsor real quick before we get into the news?
I do.
We have Eaton hanging out with us for several weeks.
And they want to talk to the sysadmins out there.
They say you live it, you know it, and they want to help you.
(04:25):
And there's some misconceptions about what sysadmins do sometimes.
So they have this, a user's guide to sysadmins that they want to help sysadmins improve workspace,
workplace interactions.
I don't know what all that means, but that's pretty fun to think through.
I guess sometimes, yeah, like sometimes we come off passive aggressive.
(04:49):
Antisocial can't make eye contact.
I think that's what they're hinting at here.
So they have a user's guide to sysadmins.
I've gotten worse about eye contact.
I've noticed it lately.
It's gotten really bad.
What do you do about it?
Do you feel it in your head?
Like you know, I'm not looking at this person.
Yeah.
Like it's it.
(05:09):
Yeah.
And then you don't want to be the weirdo that's making like inappropriate eye contact for
awkwardly long moments of time.
You overcompensate.
You're like, oh, I'm not looking.
So you make deep eye contact.
Your eyes are real wide and you don't blink.
You lick your lips slowly.
No, I don't think that's in Eaton's, in Eaton's guide on how to become a better coworker.
(05:34):
No, I don't.
I don't think that made the cut.
I'm going to go on a limb here and say Eaton may not be renewing their, their sponsorship.
I think we're just in, is this the second or third episodes?
We can fix this still.
They're laughing.
They're laughing right now.
Yes.
Yeah.
It says it's a guide to a things you wish you knew, but we're too polite to say.
(05:54):
I think it's right.
I think it's exactly what we're talking about.
Eye contact.
Yeah.
And they do battery backups, UPSs, all that kind of power management stuff.
Anyway, maybe there's some news.
Mark, is there a, is there some news this week?
Little bit of news.
Yeah.
(06:15):
So we're going into a company called Play On Sports.
They do a lot of athletic type technologies.
So if it's game streaming or tickets to sporting events, this guy hit with a $1.1 million fine
for violating data privacy laws out of California.
So this is an area that, you know, we've, we've all kind of dabbled in the athletics
technologies and streaming cameras, all those kinds of things.
(06:36):
You kind of have to, but there's an area that makes me uncomfortable.
It's when you get into fundraising and ticket sales and you start having money moving around.
And so this is where Play On Sports got in a little bit of trouble because they provide
digital ticketing platforms.
So kids can buy tickets to your school sporting events or, or it can be free, but it will
(06:56):
handle the tickets.
And that's not necessarily the problem, but because you're in this gray area where you're
kind of in school and kind of outside of school, the laws aren't very clear.
And Play On pushed the bar a little bit too far here and had some aggressive practices
to encourage students, assuming students and parents who are going to games, to opt into
(07:18):
data sharing.
And then they would have their data shared with advertisers.
And they did this through some rather shady practices where they would hide the opt in
button on a banner that covered your ticket.
So you had to click it in order to see your ticket to the sporting event.
And the California Privacy Protection Agency hit them with a fine saying, no, this was,
(07:38):
this was not okay.
This was unfair practices.
You need to have clear ways of opting in and opting out.
So it's an area that was not explicitly about education data, but this is a tool or a system
that is used in an educational environment.
And that's where I think we need to keep our eyes out on the other types of tools and systems
(08:00):
that we have being used.
Yeah, thankfully, we still, at least during regular season, we still do cash admittance.
We don't do e-tickets or anything like that.
The only time e-tickets come into play is during playoffs when our state athletic association
kicks in.
(08:20):
And actually, all of those transactions take place through the state organization, and
the state organization pays the schools their cut of money.
So thankfully, and I don't, I don't even think our athletic director is even entertained
really the idea for regular season stuff doing any sort of e-ticket, because I can't say
we've ever really sold out a game because our stadium is rather large.
(08:46):
So hopefully, hopefully we don't have to go down that road.
Chris, you don't, you guys don't do e-tickets, do you?
No.
And I was just reading this article to this line from CPPA's head of enforcement, students
trying to go to prom or a high school football game shouldn't have to leave their privacy
rights at the door.
You know, if you're a school district that's running this like prom, it's prom season,
(09:08):
a teenager is not going to, they wouldn't click the opt-in, opt-out thing anyway, but
let alone hide it behind something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, that feels shady pretty quickly.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's shady in general, but to also be doing that with a platform that
you know is being used by students just adds a layer of unfortunate shadiness.
(09:29):
All right.
You got any other shady news stories, Mark?
Lots of shady things.
College board has officially banned smart classes.
So Josh, we talked about this.
You had this issue a few months ago, and now we're starting to see all the assessment platforms
say, no, no, no, no, no, you're not gonna be wearing smart glasses while taking a test.
You know, it's funny for as big of a deal as that was for about a two week period.
(09:55):
I can't say that I've heard a peep about it since then.
Like it was right before Christmas and they sent out those messages to parents saying,
hey, don't let your kids come to school with them.
We're going to send them home.
Yada, yada, yada.
I don't, I, and we even had an admin meeting today, um, and that, that has not come up
in discussion in admin meeting for quite a while.
Now turning off Chromebook cameras is all the rage and major discussion in my district
(10:20):
right now, but that's a different topic.
I think it goes to show that the vast majority of people think that recording glasses are
creepy.
Yeah.
And if you're, if you've been on social media at all, and today, today's what, uh, March
5th, there are a number of stories from Metta, uh, employees concerned about the content
(10:44):
that the glasses are uploading to Metta servers.
So if you want, if you want a disgusting read.
Are you talking about like take a phone call, like in the bathroom kind of stuff?
Yeah.
Recording with the glasses in rather confidential scenarios, we'll just say, okay, moving on.
I said confidential.
That was good.
(11:04):
It was very well done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Last one.
We talked about a couple laws out of Tennessee last week.
I've got one out of Arkansas.
Very similar.
I actually really, really liked this law.
I think this one for me, I would like, love to see past and expand, but it is one about
screen time.
So HB 78 out down in Arkansas, this would require early childhood centers, pre-kindergarten
(11:32):
and kindergarten classrooms to effectively ban screen time, uh, for younger students.
There's a couple of things in here that I really like about this though.
The first is they were very explicit by saying that, no, we're not going to allow you to
have a TV on in the background, right?
Teacher can use technology, but you're not going to just throw something on in the background
(11:54):
and have this like passive, uh, screen time.
So they really attack active versus passive use of technology and just say, it's time
that we eliminate passive screen time from early childhood and in pre-k classrooms.
That would be big.
Just from the early childhood teachers that I know, and I live with one, it, I'll just,
(12:23):
I'll just say this.
There are times when YouTube or whatever is played on their projector, calming music,
what are you know, like thinking in your type music.
You could still do that with the projector off, I guess, if you're, if the goal really
was just the music and the calming sensation that, you know, that meditative type music,
(12:46):
but that, that would be a paradigm shift for a lot of teachers, I think.
And I'm kind of scared by that, right?
Like if you think about this, it is very common for videos to be as just a passive screen
somewhere in the room, either at home or sometimes in these early childhood centers and classrooms.
(13:06):
And you're, you're building a habit for kids to get more and more addicted to a screen
being on.
So I think that's a good move.
But let's define that too.
It's not like they're just spacing out and staring at a screen either, it's especially
early childhood rooms.
There's always something going on.
(13:28):
It's more for the background noise than it is the background visual, I guess, if that
makes sense.
I don't know.
I had a coworker who always listened to music on YouTube and he'd go, I know you hate me
because I'm taking all your bandwidth for YouTube to be on the background.
But I understand that the interface of YouTube was just easier to find music and search through
and stuff.
(13:49):
And that's what his, his point was, is that it just, it always selects the right song
next.
So that's a problem for kindergarten classrooms.
If that's what they're trying to do, you can fix that by just not having the projector
on by not having the TV on.
You're putting this as music in the background, even if you still want to use streaming video.
I like it.
I like it.
(14:09):
The other thing that I do like about this one is that they require training for all
teachers to go through mandatory training from the state on screen time and screen time
dangers and limits.
So it's good to see that they're not just implementing rules.
They're talking about wanting to make sure that educators understand the reason for those
rules.
So I'm in favor of HB 78.
I think it's a great, great start.
(14:30):
And it's, it's kindergarten and below.
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah.
And they really highlight a lot of childcare centers as well.
I think that tends to be a bigger focus of the, of the law.
I could see that.
Cause they kind of skirt, you know, most of these rules that Desi state, state Desi departments
come out with, yes, accredited daycares are under Desi in most states, but a lot of these
(14:55):
rules don't apply to them because they don't have one-to-one programs.
They're not doing free and reduced lunch programs.
You know, like, so it, it would be interesting to see that actually apply to outside daycares,
non public ed daycares.
Yeah.
And their, their enforcement is their childcare facility licensing.
So if you're not compliant with this law, you could have your, your license pulled.
(15:19):
Interesting.
That's it for the news.
I know we've got one more big story, but that's our main topic in a few minutes.
Let me talk about a meter.
So a meter delivers full stack networking infrastructure.
They can do your wired, your wireless and your cellular.
They can help you and they'll, they'll, they'll just work with you.
So they'll help you with your design, your deployment, they'll help you manage your stuff.
(15:40):
They'll help you figure out your ISP, what your DNS security needs to be.
All that good stuff.
So check out meter it's meter.com slash K-12 tech talk.
You can book a demo with them again, meter.com slash K-12 tech talk.
Yeah.
So the big news, if I guess, if you've been under a rock for the last, what was this was
(16:03):
announced yesterday?
Yeah.
Apple had their big event yesterday and they announced the Mac Neo, the new we'll just
call it the Chromebook killer.
Um, 499 for education for the base model.
Are you out of your mind?
499?
The specs are actually pretty beefy.
(16:25):
Um, we can, we'll get into that in a minute, but I guys, my, my early take on this, I think
it's going to take some time, a cycle or two, but I think this is going to start a shift.
I think this is going to get legs.
Mark, do you have the, you have the specs, you've been doing some research.
(16:48):
You said you were watching MKBHD's video and review.
Yeah.
A few, a few YouTubers have done videos.
I haven't watched all of them, but I know the big ones, Linus and MKBHD, I never got
the MKBHD have both mentioned this as a Chromebook targeted device.
So they're looking for that genre of people who are looking for that five, $600 laptop
(17:12):
range.
Multiple people online and on YouTube have mentioned, Hey, this is going after the Chromebooks.
So is it going after the Chromebook?
Is it a comparable device?
Uh, what do you think?
I spec wise, I think it's a stronger device from standard Chromebooks that, you know,
four gig of Ram, 32 gig of storage or 64 gig storage.
(17:37):
Cause the base model on this has eight gig of Ram, right.
And a 256 gig SSD in it.
Now also running Mac OS versus Chrome OS.
So a real operating system versus just a browser.
If, if you want to call Chrome OS that I think one of the things that I would have to get
(17:59):
over with this spec wise, hardware wise, it's running on the a, is it a 18 chips, which
is the same chip that the iPhone 16 currently running.
So, but, but, you know, to that argument, Chromebooks are typically running Celeron
processors that are very low spec or, um, Oh, what AMD processors that are super low.
(18:26):
What's the other one?
The other, the other processor line for Chromebooks.
I can't think of the only one you're going to be able to buy because you can't buy Intel's
right now.
Starts with an M not micro tick.
Anyway, we're talking mobile device processor style processors, right?
So, so it's likely that that, that a chip instead of the M, you know, M three or M four
(18:48):
chip will be fine, but you're still running a full blown operating system.
You're still running Mac OS off this chip that is typically in a phone or an iPad.
So I have some, I have some questions performance wise there, media tech, media, AMD, Intel
and media tech.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So talk about price.
Yes, it's four 99, but again, if you've been living under a rock, I have some bad news
(19:14):
for you.
Chromebooks are going to be expensive this next cycle and probably for the next two or
three cycles.
So yeah, that four 99 is, is a little bit higher than what you would pay for an Asus
or a CTL Chromebook or HP Chromebook, but you're not factoring in a case.
You're not factoring in the Google management license.
(19:36):
You're not, you know, like there are several things there cost wise, um, because I, they're
saying ASM has had enhancements to it that you can do a lot of the same restrictions
and stuff like that with Apple school manager, ASM, um, that you can with similarly with
Chrome OS and Google management license or Google management console.
(19:58):
Eric, the intern used to banter with me about even the previous low in Mac book compared
to a Chromebook.
The, the trade in value, the buyback value of an Apple product being higher.
He used to try to get there with me that it already made sense to, to go Apple, uh, because
(20:19):
of that buyback, let alone, you know, a reduced price now.
Yeah.
I mean the resale value of a Mac in comparison to, to other devices is it's night and day
that the Macs do hold their value a little bit longer.
It will be interesting if this Neo does the same thing because again, it is a lower, it's
a, it's a step below the, the air, the Mac book air.
(20:42):
The other question that I have is filtering a number of filters out there struggle with
filtering via an installed application.
And by that I mean on a Chromebook it's done via force installed extension to do that same
thing on a windows platform or Mac iOS platform, you have to stall, install a package or an
(21:05):
application and get all that set up and running.
Some filters really struggle with that.
So until that, some of these filter companies are gonna have to step their game up and pour
money into development for those installed applications to function as well as their
force installed extensions do.
(21:25):
Then I think the conversation becomes, do you still install, do you run off Safari or
do you install Chrome on these devices and run off Chrome?
All right.
You, you've laid out a whole bunch of, whole bunch of points here.
Let's, let's break it down one by one.
So durability and, and cost, yes, it is clearly more durable than existing Chromebooks.
(21:48):
That was the main point of, of some of the Apple announcements.
Are you at the point though, where you think that students would take care of this to the
level of wanting to buy a more expensive device, regardless of it being made of aluminum, be
more durable?
Do you think that the care and maintenance is there in your communities to warrant paying
more?
(22:08):
Yes, because I wouldn't buy a case because I'm spending an extra 20, 25 bucks with a
Chromebook to buy a cheap plexiglass clay case that does no good.
And I could forego that knowing the device was built out of aluminum.
There's a little, I think there is a discussion around that, about skipping buying the case.
(22:30):
Okay.
Chris, how about you?
Chris?
Yeah.
And there was a guy in pro, I don't remember who it was, but their school had ditched cases
on Chromebooks and saw their, you know, break rate didn't change.
Yeah.
This is an example of a school making the decision based upon data.
They pulled their cases.
They did a year with it.
They saw what cost savings they still had despite not having cases.
(22:51):
So then they stuck with it.
I think there's a cultural thing with that.
Like I have a hard time wrapping my head around that a kid drops a device and it cracks and
we're going to make a decision with a parent guardian on a charge or not.
And then we're saying that we didn't issue a case.
(23:11):
It feels irresponsible.
Even if the data backed up that it doesn't matter, it just, it's a harder conversation
that we don't do cases kind of thing.
I had shown you guys this and I can't cite who it came from, but on LinkedIn, someone
posted about Chromebook, rough through your cost, about $275 to $375.
(23:32):
You throw in Chrome management, $30, $40 bucks.
You might get $30, $50 bucks back at resale.
So that's net somewhere around $255, $355.
Same MacBook Neo, $499, Apple School Managers, $0.
But you're going to get about $180 to $220 back.
That puts that net at about $275, $319.
(23:54):
Again, these are actually comparable devices now.
The hardware thing that is most interesting to me for some reason, and I think it's smart,
is that they're doing USB 2 and USB 3.
We don't have to swap out chargers in our districts.
We're just ripping out devices and putting in MacBooks.
(24:16):
I think that was the correct choice.
USB-C adapters, yeah.
There's nothing crazy there.
Even the standard headphone jack is there.
There's nothing crazy.
Apple's not trying to be jerks about buying their stuff.
They're making it for a school.
What I thought was interesting is Apple publishes the repairability grid, which is actually
a law in France, where France requires electronics companies to provide the repairability score.
(24:40):
It's a neutral third-party validation.
The repairability of the Apple Neo is higher than the normal MacBook and MacBook Air, MacBook
Pro, because they're using less glue.
They're using more screws in replacement of glue.
I think that in doing so, they are aiming at schools specifically with that particular
(25:01):
issue, because they know that schools have to repair the keyboard and repair the screen.
They have made the MacBook Neo slightly more repairable than your average Mac.
It's still not at the repairability score of your traditional Chromebook, but it is
a slight move in the right direction for repairability.
(25:22):
I think that's going to be the most critical thing for schools.
If you're running a student tech team that's repairing Chromebooks, and now all of a sudden
you're going to adopt a Mac Neo, if you can't repair it, that's a massive consideration
for a school.
Agreed.
Apple School Manager, ASN that you had mentioned.
I know when we first launched it years ago, it was a disaster.
(25:43):
But when you talk to people who are fully into Apple School Manager today, they will
tell you that it's phenomenal, it's great.
So I do think that Apple has cracked the code on school management, knowing that that is
also a significant factor.
So you've got the repairability, the durability, the cost is approaching what schools might
want to see, especially when Chris, you mentioned the resale value.
(26:04):
I think this really takes a bite out of districts moving from Apple to Chromebook because of
cost.
I think this gives them a step where they can be met in the middle.
I don't know though, if this is enough for districts to consider a full switch from Chromebook
to Apple because of this.
(26:24):
I'll add to that, Mark.
I think those districts that adopted iPads early on and are now in that refresh cycle,
I think this is an easy conversation for them.
They're staying in that ecosystem.
So yes, things change a little bit, but they're still in ASM and Mozilla and those types of
(26:45):
environments.
So I think this is huge for those districts that are iPads and looking to transition away
from that touchscreen type modality.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I think there will be a number of districts look very,
very hard at this over the next 12 to 24 months.
(27:07):
I don't know budgeting cycle.
We're kind of in the middle of budgeting now, so I don't know if it's going to be in the
next 12 months, but I think we're going to hear of a number of districts make this jump.
I have two things to that.
One is a sponsor.
Check out IncidentIQ.
IncidentIQ is your IT service management platform built for schools.
(27:29):
They can integrate your help desk, your asset tracking workflows, reporting all into one
system.
Check out IncidentIQ.
I think Google needs to pay attention more than ever.
Then this whole, the Chrome OS is moving and merging with Android.
If that ball gets fumbled, you're going to have people taking a big look at moving to
(27:56):
Apple.
Google needs to do that shift correctly, or you could see a lot of text just being like,
I'm over that stuff.
I didn't like Android before.
I sure don't like it now.
This is the reason that they would jump to Apple.
I do think though that the Mac Neo takes a massive bite out of the Chromebook Plus market.
(28:20):
Google has been trying to market a more expensive, more durable, more staff-ready, teacher-ready
Chromebook and those are at the $500, $600, $700 mark.
I think if you put a Chromebook in front of a teacher and an equally priced MacBook, they're
going to take the MacBook any day over the Chromebook.
I think that this takes a big bite out of the employee staff Chromebook market and then
(28:45):
who knows?
Maybe that then works its way down to students.
Boy, you got my head spinning there, Mark.
Districts that have taken the jump, like my wife's district, that are all in on staff
laptops.
There are no desktops in classrooms.
It is a laptop for every teacher.
Is that a Windows laptop or Chrome or what?
(29:07):
Windows.
It's a Dell pick-your-model latitude, which now doesn't exist, enterprise, whatever.
Is that a conversation point?
Because you know those nicer business-style laptops are $1,000 plus.
Will a Neo fit that need for a classroom's teacher laptop?
(29:31):
You're immediately going to save half, immediately.
If you spend another $100, you get more storage and a fingerprint reader and the power button.
You have built-in MFA on the device.
Mac Airs, which is their entry-level model, have already gone up in price.
Those are at $1,100 a piece.
(29:53):
If there are districts and even just on the consumer side saying, hey, that's a little
too much.
I'm going to start to look at a Chromebook Plus.
Now all of a sudden, you've got a MacBook that is taking that away.
I like the idea.
My teachers have a Windows laptop and then we have student Chromebooks.
If you were to ask my teachers what else they want, they always say an iPad.
(30:17):
They would love an iPad in addition to their Windows laptop.
But if I was just to give them a MacBook and kill off the Windows stuff, that's a cool
world.
That reminds me of that school.
I think it was in Indiana that had the iPad.
Every teacher had an iPad and a Chromebook, I think it was, with a document camera thing.
(30:41):
That sets up that world to get rid of Windows.
Going back to Chromebook Plus, if I look at the Chromebook Plus device that I have, which
is just a fancier, nicer Chromebook, but it's still a Chromebook, and just let my eyes determine
what I want.
I want the stinking MacBook.
(31:02):
All day.
Yeah.
I've been running, transparency's sake, I bought a MacBook Air back in August.
And I bought it really for the battery life.
Battery life is amazing.
Chromebook Plus versus MacBook Air, yeah, I'm gravitating, because I have both in my
backpack.
It's a heavy damn backpack.
I'm gravitating to the MacBook Air.
(31:25):
Has there ever been a sexy Chromebook?
Has there ever been one?
Can we say sexy?
I think we can.
There's never been one.
I don't know that I would say that.
Yeah.
I don't know that I would say there's been a sexy Chromebook.
Mark really likes his Chromebook.
Mark's leaving.
I think he's getting his sexy Chromebook.
He's got it.
(31:46):
Yeah, he's got a pixel, I think.
I'll wait till he gets back to ask my next question.
Chris, to your point about that resellability, I've seen that on LinkedIn as well.
And if you're on LinkedIn, God, that stupid Apple video for the Neo, it is every other
post.
I don't know how much Apple is paying these people to post this, but that Neo announcement
(32:09):
video is every other post on LinkedIn.
I don't know that we would be in that same boat to expect a resale value in those devices,
because we're running our devices into the ground.
We're going extended support on everything.
Yes, that's a discussion point, but for us anyway, and I'm sure other districts are in
(32:33):
the same boat, I don't know how big that's a factor.
My other question, and I have not seen many people bring this up, if you're buying a device
with a real OS on it, are you also buying an EDR license for that device?
Because that's a cost that I'm not seeing factored in any of these discussion points.
(32:56):
That's 40 bucks a year added on to the bottom to the cost of that device now, because it's
a real operating system.
And yes, Macs get viruses.
Yeah.
And management and tech departments headspace on that they have more devices that they had
that risk on now.
Now the first answer, the first comment that I got about, well, now you have to buy Mozilla
(33:20):
was no, you can do a lot of it in ASM now.
Like a lot of those device settings that we're doing with Google Admin Console and Chromebooks
can be done inside ASM.
I was talking with somebody today that's leveraging it heavily for a fleet of MacBooks in a lab
and said ASM has come light years in the last year or two.
(33:43):
So I'm going to say it.
I'm going to ask my boss if we can buy a couple of these to play with in my department to
get our hands around them.
Well, Mark is going to show us his sexy Chromebook.
And then I'm going to reveal, I emailed the Apple person we know to ask if we could get
(34:06):
our hands on these.
And I'm going to let you know what the person said back.
Do you remember this?
This is the Pixelbook.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
A thousand dollar Chromebook.
It was a good Chromebook.
It died one week into COVID, though, so.
It did, really?
That was a good looking device.
It was a good looking one, yeah.
But it was a thousand dollars.
But I would never put it in the hands of a middle school student.
(34:28):
And I think that is going to be a very, very big point that a lot of IT departments are
saying is like, this is really nice.
But the nicer it is, the less likely I want to put this into a classroom and then have
to repair a dozen broken screens and keyboards.
But it's aluminum, Mark.
They're made out of aluminum.
It's not the case I'm worried about.
It's the keys and it's the screen.
(34:50):
Aluminum, Mark.
It's, hey, listen.
It's forged from Mount Doom, Mark.
Come on.
I emailed the Apple person that I know.
I said, probably a long shot.
But if you have the hookup for three NEOs for the KTOL Tech Talk podcast, we will demo
them.
(35:10):
Oh, and what'd she say, no?
And she said, I'm getting one.
I'll see you at Midwest Tech Talk.
I might bring it with me to show you.
That's it.
We don't know.
That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a nice, that's a nice way to say no.
Thanks Apple.
No.
So you can have one, but I'll show you mine.
(35:36):
This is not K-12 related, but you know who else this is perfect for?
In-laws.
Yes.
In-laws and grandparents.
Oh, that's a very good point.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
My mother-in-law struggles with her Chromebook.
Like we got a Chromebook because it's very simple.
It's just Chrome, but she still struggles with it.
(35:56):
I really wonder if this would, if this would help.
I'm very interested to see if Apple had talked about this at all, is the idea that students
don't like the laptops they're forced to use.
Student perceptions of Chromebooks are very, very low and Google's own internal data that
was in that article a few weeks ago has shown that students do not graduate high school
and go out and buy an Android or a Chromebook.
(36:19):
So I think Apple is also very carefully walking into this saying, we don't want to have our
Apple device turn into the thorn in a student's side and then have them think negatively of
Apple devices.
I don't think that's going to happen, but all, all it takes is one or two, all it takes
is one or two tick tockers to, to show that they got a Neo and Bob's your uncle and they've
(36:44):
Apple stock shoots up $20 a share and every school has them.
There's four different colors.
I know.
Like your kids, like, no, let your students buy.
Nope.
Absolutely not.
Nope.
We would do a survey before you order.
Nope.
We would standardize on a color.
You're going to go silver.
(37:04):
Yep.
And it turns into an argument.
I do.
I do like these devices.
I think.
I think I do too.
We're going to like hell is freezing over by me saying that, but I think it's a move
towards taking over Chromebooks.
But all the things that we talked about in terms of the repairability, your network filter,
your security software, your management, all of those are big hurdles to get over.
(37:29):
And if you can get over those hurdles, I think this is a very appetizing device.
Well, and the EDR thing is real math to add in.
Yeah.
And again, your tech department taking on that extra burden.
My tech department doesn't.
We feel the burden of Chromebooks, yes, but not so much in regards to the pressure we
feel from cybersecurity on the window side of the house.
(37:51):
So think through that.
Yeah.
So then, yeah.
So then does that open a conversation of you're buying two different EDRs, a cheap EDR for
your student devices and a robust EDR from NTP for your windows, for your staff devices?
Then you got two different platforms, two different consoles.
(38:13):
That's a thing.
We did it.
Our staff were on MacBooks and it was an expensive cost.
And so I think this would be very enticing for the district and our students were on
Chromebooks.
It worked out really well.
Our teachers really liked and respected having MacBooks.
So I think that's a very enticing thing for districts to think about, at least first.
I would agree with you.
Yeah.
(38:33):
If you can make it work and think of the other things that allows you to do too.
Like if you're a window shop now, you could dump Active Directory for a lot of things.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
You crazy boy.
You've gone too far right there.
Well, I mean, if you're a district that has no internal file shares, what are you really
(38:59):
using Active Directory for?
You know, we allowed you to say that you don't mind moving from a Chromebook to Mac.
But when you said dumping Active Directory, you lost us.
This episode is over.
You could talk about Google, but you will not talk about Active Directory like that.
Whatever.
One time in high school, my friends and I, we were sitting on the back row in English
(39:25):
class and the teacher was making us watch Romeo and Juliet.
We had just read through it.
And it was like an old movie of Romeo and Juliet.
And she allowed nudity on the TV screen, which high school boys did not handle that well.
So we were laughing.
And she said, you can make fun of me, but you will not make fun of William Shakespeare.
(39:47):
Anyway, did she understand that you weren't laughing at William Shakespeare?
I don't know.
And then I told my parents.
And then the next day, they made me apologize to the teacher.
Wow.
That's funny.
Wow.
Yeah.
But then something with that.
She wrote us up and I got Saturday school for a day, all because of sitting in the wrong
seat, Romeo and Juliet laughing at nudity.
(40:09):
That's my story time.
Story time, Chris.
How does it relate to this?
I said, you will not make fun of Active Directory.
And that triggered a memory of high school.
To this day, he giggles when there's nudity in movies, Romeo and Juliet.
He can't watch Romeo and Juliet to this day.
Yeah.
He giggles like a sophomore.
(40:31):
I don't know.
I think this is going to be interesting to your track, I think.
Is this email us?
Let us know.
Is this the Chromebook killer?
Are you going to entertain?
I think I'm going to buy three of these if Apple doesn't come through.
I'm going to buy three of them.
Your mom?
No.
My department.
(40:52):
Oh.
And we're going to void the warranty right away.
Sorry, Josh's mom.
And see how repairable they are.
Yeah.
Mark, you going to get one?
You know, I always have to think about like, when this laptop dies, what am I going to
go to next?
If that laptop dies tomorrow, I might take a look.
(41:12):
$4.99, man.
Well, $5.99 because you're not an educational institution.
I don't know.
I think I'm Google for life.
Well, you can still be Google.
I still want to change.
I mean, we know you have the tattoo on your lower back of the Google logo, but...
G-O.
Oh, gee, Ellie.
(41:33):
You can still you can still use Google Workspace.
It's just the platform for delivery is different.
The only feelings you're hurting there is ASUS, HP, and Dell.
You're not hurting Google's feelings.
It's like we're breaking up, Google.
But you know what?
You share YouTube and all that stuff we've been talking about.
(41:55):
This is the perfect time for Apple to announce this.
Yes.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Processor prices and the YouTube drama and screen, you know, whether this was calculated
or not, it's it's a good time to do it.
Well, Josh, you also raised a good point.
Don't don't screw up the Android conversion.
Oh, that was Chris's point.
(42:18):
But yeah, I'm I'm still worried about that.
Like that.
Hopefully, I'm retired before that actually becomes a thing.
We'll chase in that when you could turn on the Android store and I got like excited for
like a day that I turned it on and it was awful, awful.
And I was like, this is why I've never liked Android.
Whatever.
(42:38):
It's a superior phone.
I mean, I have conceived that could be its own episode.
I'm concerned about what that what that move looks like.
I don't know.
Mark, don't give that look.
You have an Android.
You have a pixel.
I'm not getting into this fight.
We're pixel bros, Mark.
I know this.
I don't care what my phone is.
(42:59):
Don't bring me into the Android iPhone fight.
I'm sorry I made the group chat into a green bubble.
I apologize.
It sucks.
Get on WhatsApp.
Anyway, get off.
Yeah, whatever.
Chris, you want to hit our final sponsors for the night?
I do.
So we have Midwest Tech Talk Security Symposium next week.
(43:19):
Mark, you're coming to Missouri.
Josh, are you showing up?
I don't know if you are or not.
Yeah, I'm going to drive up that morning.
Josh, who never registers or anything, hey, hey, and the new guy was just talking about
Josh today.
He was telling Nathan, our other new guy, Josh will probably be there.
He'll just show up and be like, can I get a badge or a bag?
(43:41):
Like Josh just shows up.
I won't ask for a bag.
I won't.
No, that's rude.
I won't ask for a bag.
So we'll be there.
But anyway, that conference and the trips that we've been taking are thanks to our listeners,
but thanks to our sponsors, in particular Fortinet.
Get all your Forta needs, your FortiGate, your FortiAnalyzer, your FortiToken from Fortinet.
(44:01):
You can email Fortinetpodcast at Fortinet.com.
Thanks to Manage Methods, ManageMethods.com, David over there.
You can get on their website, click to get a free trial, a free audit.
They can look at your Google environment.
They can help out with student safety.
They can do your content filter as well.
They can look at your Windows environment, your Office 365 stuff as well.
(44:24):
All about student safety, all about safety in general.
And then last but not least is Lightspeed, a great content filter.
It's what I use at my school district.
Check out Lightspeed for your content filter needs.
They have that signal product and more as well.
That's it, boys.
All right, well, shoot us an email.
(44:44):
Let us know your thoughts on the Mac Neo Chromebook Killer.
We'll see you next week.
The views and opinions expressed on the K-12 Tech Talk podcast are the personal opinions
(45:08):
of Josh, Chris, and Mark, and do not represent the views or opinions of our sponsors or other
organizations that we're affiliated with.
The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment
purposes only.
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.