October 15, 2025 • 26 mins
In our second Hear From Your Host episode, Dr. Rachel Yoho, the regular host of the podcast, becomes the guest as Producer Kelly Chandler guest hosts to facilitate a conversation on how we prepare for and navigate difficult situations in educational spaces.
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Episode Transcript
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Kelly (00:08):
Hello and welcome to the Keystone Concepts in Teaching
podcast.
My name is Kelly Chandler and Iam the Strategic Programs and
Media Manager for the StearnsCenter for Teaching and Learning
at George Mason University andproducer for the Keystone
Concepts in Teaching podcast,where we share impactful and
evidence-based teachingpractices to support all
students and faculty.
(00:29):
For this episode, I'm also yourguest host in our second episode
of our Hear From Your Hostseries.
For these special episodes,we'll turn the tables and
listeners will get to hear fromour host, Dr.
Rachel Yoho about keystoneconcepts in teaching.
Dr.
Yoho is the Assistant Directorin the Stearns Center for
Teaching and Learning.
(00:49):
She is also a faculty affiliatein the Department of
Environmental Science andPolicy.
Rachel (00:55):
Yeah.
Thanks Kelly.
Kelly (00:57):
So here in this episode, we're going to be talking about
how faculty can best prepare fordifficult conversations in the
classroom.
So what are we talking aboutwhen we discuss difficult
conversations and situations inteaching?
Rachel (01:13):
Well with those, we really could be talking about
any number of things.
We could be talking aboutdifficult content, things that
are maybe socially pressingissues.
It could be something that'sparticularly controversial,
maybe worth teaching with anestablished methodology like
debates, for a reason, but maybewe're concerned about how that
(01:35):
might go.
Or these might be things that weare not prepared for.
Things that might be said in themoment, something that might be
posted in a discussion board inan asynchronous course, or even
a conversation about grades witha student, either in class or in
another setting.
So with all of these, what we'rereally talking about is if we
(01:59):
sort of draw on that crucialconversations framework, is
there's really three key pieces.
There's that strong emotionalinvestment, so basically people
care about the topic or issue.
There's some differing strongopinion.
So again, people on differentsides of something.
And that there's some aspect ofbeing high stakes.
(02:21):
So we don't often connect that.
We don't often think about highstakes being like the teaching
setting necessarily, but perhapsthis might be something that has
an impact on a student's senseof belonging in the course or
their interest in continuing inthe field of study, the major,
the minor, whatever that mightbe.
(02:42):
So some impact on lives.
Kelly (02:45):
Okay, so since faculty build out their syllabi and, you
know, know the topics they planto cover and readings they plan
to assign beforehand, can youtalk us through some best
practices when designing yourcourse and preparing to
facilitate those potentiallydifficult conversations before
they take place?
Rachel (03:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean obviously when we'retalking about for instance, like
the critical conversations,again, we're not necessarily
talking about it must meetexactly all three aspects, it
could be any of those teachingsituations that leave us in that
moment of like, Hmm, I need todo something here.
Again, might be an asynchronousclass, might be a synchronous
(03:27):
class.
But here, when we're talkingabout how we prepare to teach,
often we're looking at some ofthe known topics.
And so we might be thinkingabout the topics that are going
to be some of those ones thatare going to have some strong
emotions and, and opinions andall of that, and so we might be
(03:48):
talking about different types ofpower dynamics.
We might be talking aboutdifferent types of social
contexts.
But with that, again, we cankind of extend that out into the
critical conversationsliterature and framework.
We're looking at how we arecreating a deeper understanding
of things like whatever thetopic is, the subject matter,
(04:10):
how those dynamics interact,some sort of interactions that
impact perhaps the learningenvironment and how we produce
change in that moment becausethis is good for our students.
It helps their criticalconsciousness development, maybe
their self-efficacy in terms ofthe content, but we also wanna
be thinking about how do we dothis realistically, right?
Kelly (04:33):
So you've talked to us a little bit about why this is
important, some of the contextin which this might come up, so
whenever faculty members areanticipating that there's gonna
be a difficult conversation,what are those best practices or
actual actions and preparationsthat they can do to mitigate
this situation?
Rachel (04:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we want to focus obviously onstudent learning.
We want students to feelinvolved in the class.
We want the learning to happen.
We want students to progress intheir desired areas and careers
and whatnot, of course.
And so as we're doing this, someof the things that we might try
with the important caveat thatwe don't have a one size fits
(05:16):
all for everything.
So depending on the modality,depending on the type of class,
depending on the size of thecourse, lots of different things
we might consider.
However, one of the things thatwe might try would be something
like creating classroom groundrules, or we might call them
discussion guidelines orcommunity expectations, whatever
your preferred name there mightbe.
(05:38):
And so really when we're talkingabout that, we as the instructor
work with the students togenerate those, again, whatever
you'd like to call them, groundrules or discussion guidelines.
And so with that, it's hard tostart from a blank document, a
blank, you know, slide or, orboard or something like that.
So really there often we'retalking about going in and then
(05:59):
having the conversation of,what's important in this class,
in this particular discipline,in this level of the course?
How do we as people in thisclass want to interact with each
other?
What do we see as productive andwhat does our profession perhaps
see as productive?
And so, you know, the goal thereobviously is to have the
students, and you of course asthe instructor, really agree on
(06:23):
those ground rules orguidelines.
And also the key piece that'soften left out of that
conversation is the reasons theysupport learning, really
connecting that piece, becauseeven when we have those
conversations with the students,it's more like, ah, how do we
wanna interact with each other?
Great, that's important.
But also, why is this importantin our learning and our
(06:43):
development and our, you know,working towards whatever our
goals might be.
And having those before any sortof discussion begins.
Kelly (06:53):
So I know that you, in a lot of your professional
development workshops, you talkabout how to support all
students, but you also like tofocus on how to support
instructors, how instructors cansupport themselves.
And so what are some of thosethings that you might recommend
for instructors to kind of, youknow, prepare themselves, and
(07:14):
get in the right head space, ifyou will?
Rachel (07:17):
So there are lots of potential ground rules,
examples, there's lots ofthings, lots of resources
online, of course.
But we wanna be thinking aboutagain, what's most relevant to
the modality, what's mostrelevant to the class size, how
people are discussing, sharing,and interacting.
As we're preparing, we reallywanna be thinking about
(07:38):
ourselves as the instructor,ourselves, or teaching
assistant, whatever our rolemight be.
And so really how we show up asindividuals also impacts a lot
of the class dynamics.
So it might be how studentsperceive us, what students might
assume about our thoughts on aparticular topic, whether
correct or incorrect.
(08:00):
And also something that we don'ttalk about in my opinion, nearly
often enough, which is how do wehandle challenges in the
classroom?
So again, classroom definedbroadly, whatever our modality
might be.
But that's very much personalitydependent.
You know, you could be theperson who is ready to go, ready
to respond right there in thatmoment.
(08:22):
Or you could be all the way atthe other end of like, I will
think of something great to sayfour hours later.
And so odds are mostly somewherein between, occasionally this,
occasionally that.
But really thinking about thataspect of self-awareness, how do
I prepare myself?
And that can be something reallyimportant there as well.
(08:42):
And so there's lots of,especially when we're thinking
through the preparation, eventhings like very much related to
our personality, practicing someof the things that might be
words to intervene, but evenpracticing how we will jump in,
how we will, you know, getinvolved in a discussion board
post that might be going offinto some other topic, whatever
(09:05):
the case may be.
But overall, really what we'retalking about here is everything
from our syllabus.
You know, Hey, we're gonna betalking about these particularly
hot button issues, controversialissues, here's why we're doing
it, the learning goals, bringingeverything back to the learning
goals and talking with ourstudents.
What are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
It's that it's transparency, butit's sort of leveled up because
(09:28):
the stakes might be just thatmuch higher.
Kelly (09:32):
Just so that we're all on the same page here, are there
some examples or scenarios thatyou might give us of what a
difficult conversation or hotbutton topic might be in a
classroom?
Rachel (09:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's almost a neverending list of things that these
could be like I mentioned, Ithink here we're really talking
about anything that makes you asthe instructor go like, Ooh, I
need to do something.
Or, oh, that, hmm, not good.
You know, anything that gives ussort of that reaction.
But we might be talking aboutclasses or courses that have
(10:04):
some of those, like sociallypressing issues.
So it's not to say we must betalking about some of the
common, you know, race, gender,you know, all of those types of
things.
It could be power dynamics,could be aspects of, you know,
identity or whatever the casemay be.
Or it might not be.
We might be talking aboutgrades.
But also we might be havingdifferent types of
(10:26):
conversations.
There's a very different way toprepare or think about something
that, hey, I know in week seventhe Tuesday class is going to be
on, you know, some reallypressing subjects versus someone
said something and I need torespond.
Or someone says something that'soff topic or maybe someone else
(10:47):
is offended by that.
Those are very differentsituations, but we also wanna
think about what does that meanto, again, continue student
learning, continue trying tomeet the learning goals, and
hopefully everyone, like youmentioned, Kelly, feels included
in the course.
That includes the instructor.
We're important people in thatspace as well, who are.
(11:08):
Again, often forgotten in myopinion.
So some of the things we mightbe thinking about, certainly I
would definitely refer some ofour listeners back to season
one, episode eight, when wediscussed writing about
challenging topics.
Because I think that gives someinteresting examples,
particularly from thehumanities.
But these certainly aren'tnecessarily just discipline
(11:29):
specific.
That's not to say in a STEMfield or public health or some
other area, that we're not goingto have very challenging topics
as well.
So it could be, again, like Imentioned, you know, someone
says something that might beoffensive to another student.
But also we might be talkingabout content.
We might be talking about, howmaybe a team of engineers could
(11:52):
go into a particular community.
How do we do that?
How do we do that productively?
How do you build connections,especially if there are
different types of powerdynamics?
You know, you're not a member ofthat community.
You're coming in to solve somesort of engineering problem.
What are those dynamics?
How do those interactions work?
(12:12):
So lots of different thingsthere.
I mean, that's certainly justone tiny, tiny example in a
whole sea of examples.
But I think there's a lot ofthings that we wanna be thinking
very expansively.
What's difficult, what are theways people might be interacting
with topics even when they'renot perceived necessarily as
controversial?
Kelly (12:31):
Right, absolutely.
So earlier, like I mentioned,faculty build their own syllabi,
right?
And they can kind of anticipatewhen these difficult
conversations might come up.
But as you briefly mentionedbefore, not everything or every
possible situation can be knownin advance.
(12:52):
So how might we prepareourselves, our classroom, our
course design even, for thoseunexpected situations?
Rachel (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's a certainknowledge if you're going in you
know a topic's going to bedifficult, that might help a bit
actually.
But when we're talking aboutmanaging discussions in the
moment, essentially we areattempting to manage emotions
and events as they play out inthat moment.
So here, obviously I am talkingabout some sort of synchronous
(13:24):
course, but also these do applyto asynchronous courses.
Just discussion boards or otherasynchronous interactions might
be slightly different.
But really what we wanna bethinking about here are some
ideas of how we can support, howwe can intervene.
And also the other piece is howto follow up.
And so one of the things thatmight kind of cross over in our
(13:45):
conversation here from how weprepare to how we handle things
in the moment is having pausing,for instance, be an expectation.
So not only for us, obviously asthe instructor or teaching
assistant, whatever our role is,we can always say, okay, let's
take a pause here.
But we can also set thatexpectation for the class that
students can also say like, Hey,let's take a pause here.
(14:09):
Because the other thing is asthe instructor, especially in an
in-person modality orsynchronous modality, we aren't
always aware of everythingthat's going on in the moment or
everything that's going on inthe chat, or in a fully
asynchronous maybe we didn't seethe discussion board and what
was going on in there that day.
We checked it the next day.
So lots of different things wewanna be thinking about, but
(14:30):
here's the other place that wecan be thinking about how we,
especially in those synchronousenvironments, how we rehearse
our own pause phrases.
It sounds kind of ridiculous,but it's actually useful.
It's like that sort of musclememory thing.
The more we practice something,whether it's a hobby or cooking
or, you know, other interest,the better you get at it.
Right?
The same thing can be said here,so anything that fits obviously
(14:53):
for your personality too.
So it might be something like,Hey, I'm hearing whatever, I'd
like to pause so that we can dosomething.
That do something could be anynumber of activities.
You know, we might just take apause.
We might ask students to do somesort of like 60 second writing
prompt in their notes.
We might take that opportunityto refer back to ground rules,
(15:16):
whatever the case may be.
Because here we're reallythinking about how do we take
that metaphorical temperaturedown, if you will.
Kelly (15:25):
So we talked about some good strategies as far as how to
handle those difficultconversations, whether you are
prepared for it or unpreparedfor it.
But particularly when you'reunprepared for it, how would an
instructor, how could aninstructor know when they should
jump in, when they shouldinterject?
Rachel (15:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean, this is again, acrossmodalities.
Certainly in a discussion board,we could jump in and say, Hey,
let's take a pause here, youknow, and you could have a
statement or something likethat.
But really when we're thinkingabout these, deciding when and
how to intervene, we have quitea number of things that might
impact our decision.
(16:06):
And so this certainly isn't achecklist.
We're not gonna be like, okay,in the moment, let me think
about this, and then that, andthen that.
But in general, the things wemight be considering are, you
know, is this a teachablemoment?
Certainly there may be manytimes that a topic is important.
It might be a topic we're alsopersonally or professionally
(16:26):
interested in, but it might notbe relevant to the class.
Kelly (16:30):
I love a good, teachable moment.
That's my favorite phrase.
This is a teachable moment.
Rachel (16:36):
Yeah, I mean, we can even point it out.
It's like, Hey, if we're to usethe phrase like, bringing people
in, we wanna call in, let'sdiscuss this as a moment.
But, like I said, sometimes noteverything is that moment, but
if it is, great, let's dig in.
But also before we dig in, wemight be thinking about, you
know, is there enough time?
Because if there's not enoughtime, then we might do more harm
(16:59):
than good.
We might be causing some sort ofissue if we just kind of
superficially discuss somethingand then, okay, let's move on.
That could be more harmful.
It just depends on the topic, ofcourse.
And so if there's not enoughtime though, especially this is
obviously most relevant insynchronous courses, we can
acknowledge that, Hey, we needto talk about this.
We don't have time today.
(17:20):
I need to go over the assignmentfor this week.
We need to talk about this, butit's important, so let's come
back to it in our class onThursday.
Certainly, obviously theimportant part there is the
accountability and actuallycoming back to it in class on
Thursday.
But also perhaps not everythingneeds to be a full class
conversation.
Maybe it's something that youfollow up with an email.
(17:42):
Maybe it's something that youconnect with in a different way.
A discussion board post, a postin the learning management
system like Canvas, somethinglike that.
Other considerations we might bethinking about, like when and
how to intervene are reallythings like, do I have the
skills?
Do I have the stamina?
And the interest, especially, infacilitating this conversation,
(18:03):
not only in this moment, but arethere resources that I need?
Because if we say, okay, hey,let's come back to it on
Thursday, this is reallyimportant.
I wanna make sure we do well indiscussing this.
Maybe there's some resources.
Maybe you need to readsomething.
Maybe it's not right in your,like, wheelhouse of expertise.
Or maybe you wanna talk tosomeone in your unit, your
(18:25):
administration of like, Hey, howdo you recommend I handle this?
Maybe you're a new facultymember.
It's like, I am just gettinginto the practice of this.
What do I do here?
And so really thinking aboutwhat support you need is also
important there.
Kelly (18:39):
I think that was something that in a previous
episode was talked about wherewe had our guests, Raven and
Laurel, in season two, Iremember them talking about the
importance of sometimesadmitting that you don't know it
all to your students, and I lovethat.
Just kind of leveling with themand taking this as a teaching
(19:01):
opportunity also for yourself.
Like, Hey, so we've come into apart of this conversation that I
actually don't think I have allthe resources, all the skills to
handle right now.
So let's table this.
I'll do some more work and comeback to it.
I really like that.
I think it can be reallypowerful to see faculty admit to
that honestly.
Rachel (19:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, and it's hard as aninstructor, I mean, there's sort
of this pressure to know all thethings, to be absolutely perfect
to know every single thing andsometimes we just don't.
You know, Hey, I forget.
I need to go look that up.
You know, we use our resources.
Kelly (19:39):
And also, like you said, we bring ourselves, we bring our
own experiences and identitiesinto the situation.
So we also might not know allthe time when there is a
difficult conversation coming upor when we might need to
interject.
Rachel (19:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, we're not always goingto be knowledgeable in every
single thing that's said.
Students might bring insomething very interesting, very
timely, and maybe that's notsomething that we are quite
familiar with yet, but it's anopportunity for us as well.
And so the other thing about on,you know, when and how to
(20:14):
intervene again acrossmodalities, we might be thinking
about the other side.
Again, it's not a checklist, butwe might be thinking about the
consequences if, for instance,we do or do not engage in the
conversation, you know, in thatmoment.
And so there might be impacts,like we were talking about
earlier on student learning.
(20:34):
You know, if you don't feel likeyou belong in the class or that
you're part of the class, you'reprobably not going to learn very
well.
There could be that one classsession, hopefully not, but
there could be, that changes thedynamics for the rest of the
semester.
You know, obviously these arethe kinds of things we want,
perhaps, with this conversationto avoid.
But we also might be thinkingabout the impacts on the
(20:56):
instructor.
Certainly things that might besaid can harm the instructor as
well, but also things likecourse evaluations, what
students say in that type ofanonymous forum impact different
types of appointmentsdifferently.
And that's something that justis how this, you know, system is
set up and so reappointment,depending on different types of
(21:20):
positions, can have differentimpacts, unfortunately.
And also, you know, students'reactions beyond the classroom.
We might be thinking about, youknow, if something escalates
further, how do I, hopefullyprevent things from escalating
further from moving into otherspaces.
But also overall the practice ofteaching.
(21:40):
You know, we're looking at ourown growth, our own learning.
As an instructor, you know, ifyou've been teaching long
enough, you kind of get to thatpoint of I've seen it all.
And then in fact you realize youhave not seen it all.
'cause there's this other thingthat happened.
So it's really looking atteaching as that sort of
iterative practice as well.
How do we show up?
How do we learn from things?
(22:02):
How do we continue to grow andimprove just like we want our
students to grow and improve?
Kelly (22:07):
So what do you see as our keystone concept for today that
you hope our listeners take awayfrom this episode?
Rachel (22:16):
Yeah, I think the keystone concept here is there
are lots of difficultconversations and situations in
teaching.
It could be something we'reready for and know that, hey,
this is gonna be challenging.
It might not be.
But they take a lot of practice,they take a lot of commitment,
you know, commitment to studentlearning, commitment to a
successful day or session orlesson, whatever the case may
(22:37):
be.
And there are a lot of internaland external factors that impact
our decision making, impact thedynamics, impact the moment,
whatever that is.
I mean certainly as we'rethinking about how do we not
only prepare, but also how wehandle situations in the moment,
it's thinking through what mightbe likely, also what might be
less likely.
You know, so we've mentioned inother episodes maybe talking to
(23:00):
other people who have taught thecourse.
You know, if this is somethingthat you inherited, but maybe if
it's something that you'redesigning, it's really, what can
you anticipate?
Where might the sticking pointsbe?
And then being ready for thesticking points that you didn't
know about.
But as we do this, we reallywanna be thinking about who our
resources are and where ourresources are.
(23:22):
So obviously our keyconsiderations there are really
thinking about our ownpreparation, preparing early,
talking with our students fromday one.
What are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Why is this important to yourprofessional preparation?
And we also wanna be thinkingabout our resources in terms of
talking with colleagues.
Certainly we want to be able toprocess, we want to be able to
discuss situations.
(23:43):
And get that support whileobviously, you know, FERPA
expectations like studentprivacy expectations, but we
wanna have that community.
We wanna think about is that inour department?
Are there other colleagues whoteach similar courses?
Is this going to the Teachingand Learning Center and building
my community that way?
Or any other thing.
We really want to be focusedhere overall on our own academic
(24:08):
and professional integrity.
And so as we do that, what doesthat look like?
What do expectations look like?
Where are our resources?
That could be, you know, programdirector, department chair, you
know, a college's facultyaffairs dean or dean's office
representative, something likethat.
But it might not be, we mightnot be going to someone in our
academic line, if you will.
(24:29):
Maybe we're thinking aboutpeople in other offices, you
know, faculty affairs types ofoffices, teaching and learning
centers.
Maybe the undergraduate coreoffice, if that's the type of
course, or even campus affinitygroups.
But really here, you know,obviously, and this is a
certainly a short episode, it'snot comprehensive.
We really wanna just be focusedhere on our keystone concept,
(24:50):
our key takeaway's really beingthat difficult conversations
happen and that they takepractice and commitment and
really rely on a lot of internaland external factors.
Kelly (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaking of community, it's beenreally cool on some of our
episodes watching the dynamicbetween our episodes where there
are multiple guests, becauseusually these people are either
in a cohort already together orthey've found each other through
working on similar projects oron a grant or a Stearns Center
(25:21):
facilitated program even.
So it's been really coolwatching these faculty members
as our podcast guests find theircommunity.
Rachel (25:31):
Finding your community, finding your people whoever that
might be, whoever your resourcesare, someone supportive to
really have that resource foryou as the instructor as well,
that support is reallyessential.
Kelly (25:45):
Great.
Well, thank you for yourinsights on this topic, Rachel.
Um, our, our host.
Rachel (25:52):
Yeah, it's fun to be on this side.
Kelly (25:54):
I know, I always look forward to these episodes
because while I do like being inthe background, sometimes it is
fun to come into the foregroundevery now and then.
Rachel (26:06):
Well thank you.
Thank you for hosting.
Kelly (26:08):
Yeah, of course.
Well, thank you listeners forjoining us on our second Hear
From Your Host episode.
Be sure to continue to listenalong as we post episodes every
two weeks as we explore keystoneconcepts in teaching.
Hello and welcome to the Keystone Concepts in Teaching
podcast.
My name is Kelly Chandler and Iam the Strategic Programs and
Media Manager for the StearnsCenter for Teaching and Learning
at George Mason University andproducer for the Keystone
Concepts in Teaching podcast,where we share impactful and
evidence-based teachingpractices to support all
students and faculty.
(00:29):
For this episode, I'm also yourguest host in our second episode
of our Hear From Your Hostseries.
For these special episodes,we'll turn the tables and
listeners will get to hear fromour host, Dr.
Rachel Yoho about keystoneconcepts in teaching.
Dr.
Yoho is the Assistant Directorin the Stearns Center for
Teaching and Learning.
(00:49):
She is also a faculty affiliatein the Department of
Environmental Science andPolicy.
Rachel (00:55):
Yeah.
Thanks Kelly.
Kelly (00:57):
So here in this episode, we're going to be talking about
how faculty can best prepare fordifficult conversations in the
classroom.
So what are we talking aboutwhen we discuss difficult
conversations and situations inteaching?
Rachel (01:13):
Well with those, we really could be talking about
any number of things.
We could be talking aboutdifficult content, things that
are maybe socially pressingissues.
It could be something that'sparticularly controversial,
maybe worth teaching with anestablished methodology like
debates, for a reason, but maybewe're concerned about how that
(01:35):
might go.
Or these might be things that weare not prepared for.
Things that might be said in themoment, something that might be
posted in a discussion board inan asynchronous course, or even
a conversation about grades witha student, either in class or in
another setting.
So with all of these, what we'rereally talking about is if we
(01:59):
sort of draw on that crucialconversations framework, is
there's really three key pieces.
There's that strong emotionalinvestment, so basically people
care about the topic or issue.
There's some differing strongopinion.
So again, people on differentsides of something.
And that there's some aspect ofbeing high stakes.
(02:21):
So we don't often connect that.
We don't often think about highstakes being like the teaching
setting necessarily, but perhapsthis might be something that has
an impact on a student's senseof belonging in the course or
their interest in continuing inthe field of study, the major,
the minor, whatever that mightbe.
(02:42):
So some impact on lives.
Kelly (02:45):
Okay, so since faculty build out their syllabi and, you
know, know the topics they planto cover and readings they plan
to assign beforehand, can youtalk us through some best
practices when designing yourcourse and preparing to
facilitate those potentiallydifficult conversations before
they take place?
Rachel (03:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean obviously when we'retalking about for instance, like
the critical conversations,again, we're not necessarily
talking about it must meetexactly all three aspects, it
could be any of those teachingsituations that leave us in that
moment of like, Hmm, I need todo something here.
Again, might be an asynchronousclass, might be a synchronous
(03:27):
class.
But here, when we're talkingabout how we prepare to teach,
often we're looking at some ofthe known topics.
And so we might be thinkingabout the topics that are going
to be some of those ones thatare going to have some strong
emotions and, and opinions andall of that, and so we might be
(03:48):
talking about different types ofpower dynamics.
We might be talking aboutdifferent types of social
contexts.
But with that, again, we cankind of extend that out into the
critical conversationsliterature and framework.
We're looking at how we arecreating a deeper understanding
of things like whatever thetopic is, the subject matter,
(04:10):
how those dynamics interact,some sort of interactions that
impact perhaps the learningenvironment and how we produce
change in that moment becausethis is good for our students.
It helps their criticalconsciousness development, maybe
their self-efficacy in terms ofthe content, but we also wanna
be thinking about how do we dothis realistically, right?
Kelly (04:33):
So you've talked to us a little bit about why this is
important, some of the contextin which this might come up, so
whenever faculty members areanticipating that there's gonna
be a difficult conversation,what are those best practices or
actual actions and preparationsthat they can do to mitigate
this situation?
Rachel (04:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
So we want to focus obviously onstudent learning.
We want students to feelinvolved in the class.
We want the learning to happen.
We want students to progress intheir desired areas and careers
and whatnot, of course.
And so as we're doing this, someof the things that we might try
with the important caveat thatwe don't have a one size fits
(05:16):
all for everything.
So depending on the modality,depending on the type of class,
depending on the size of thecourse, lots of different things
we might consider.
However, one of the things thatwe might try would be something
like creating classroom groundrules, or we might call them
discussion guidelines orcommunity expectations, whatever
your preferred name there mightbe.
(05:38):
And so really when we're talkingabout that, we as the instructor
work with the students togenerate those, again, whatever
you'd like to call them, groundrules or discussion guidelines.
And so with that, it's hard tostart from a blank document, a
blank, you know, slide or, orboard or something like that.
So really there often we'retalking about going in and then
(05:59):
having the conversation of,what's important in this class,
in this particular discipline,in this level of the course?
How do we as people in thisclass want to interact with each
other?
What do we see as productive andwhat does our profession perhaps
see as productive?
And so, you know, the goal thereobviously is to have the
students, and you of course asthe instructor, really agree on
(06:23):
those ground rules orguidelines.
And also the key piece that'soften left out of that
conversation is the reasons theysupport learning, really
connecting that piece, becauseeven when we have those
conversations with the students,it's more like, ah, how do we
wanna interact with each other?
Great, that's important.
But also, why is this importantin our learning and our
(06:43):
development and our, you know,working towards whatever our
goals might be.
And having those before any sortof discussion begins.
Kelly (06:53):
So I know that you, in a lot of your professional
development workshops, you talkabout how to support all
students, but you also like tofocus on how to support
instructors, how instructors cansupport themselves.
And so what are some of thosethings that you might recommend
for instructors to kind of, youknow, prepare themselves, and
(07:14):
get in the right head space, ifyou will?
Rachel (07:17):
So there are lots of potential ground rules,
examples, there's lots ofthings, lots of resources
online, of course.
But we wanna be thinking aboutagain, what's most relevant to
the modality, what's mostrelevant to the class size, how
people are discussing, sharing,and interacting.
As we're preparing, we reallywanna be thinking about
(07:38):
ourselves as the instructor,ourselves, or teaching
assistant, whatever our rolemight be.
And so really how we show up asindividuals also impacts a lot
of the class dynamics.
So it might be how studentsperceive us, what students might
assume about our thoughts on aparticular topic, whether
correct or incorrect.
(08:00):
And also something that we don'ttalk about in my opinion, nearly
often enough, which is how do wehandle challenges in the
classroom?
So again, classroom definedbroadly, whatever our modality
might be.
But that's very much personalitydependent.
You know, you could be theperson who is ready to go, ready
to respond right there in thatmoment.
(08:22):
Or you could be all the way atthe other end of like, I will
think of something great to sayfour hours later.
And so odds are mostly somewherein between, occasionally this,
occasionally that.
But really thinking about thataspect of self-awareness, how do
I prepare myself?
And that can be something reallyimportant there as well.
(08:42):
And so there's lots of,especially when we're thinking
through the preparation, eventhings like very much related to
our personality, practicing someof the things that might be
words to intervene, but evenpracticing how we will jump in,
how we will, you know, getinvolved in a discussion board
post that might be going offinto some other topic, whatever
(09:05):
the case may be.
But overall, really what we'retalking about here is everything
from our syllabus.
You know, Hey, we're gonna betalking about these particularly
hot button issues, controversialissues, here's why we're doing
it, the learning goals, bringingeverything back to the learning
goals and talking with ourstudents.
What are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
It's that it's transparency, butit's sort of leveled up because
(09:28):
the stakes might be just thatmuch higher.
Kelly (09:32):
Just so that we're all on the same page here, are there
some examples or scenarios thatyou might give us of what a
difficult conversation or hotbutton topic might be in a
classroom?
Rachel (09:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's almost a neverending list of things that these
could be like I mentioned, Ithink here we're really talking
about anything that makes you asthe instructor go like, Ooh, I
need to do something.
Or, oh, that, hmm, not good.
You know, anything that gives ussort of that reaction.
But we might be talking aboutclasses or courses that have
(10:04):
some of those, like sociallypressing issues.
So it's not to say we must betalking about some of the
common, you know, race, gender,you know, all of those types of
things.
It could be power dynamics,could be aspects of, you know,
identity or whatever the casemay be.
Or it might not be.
We might be talking aboutgrades.
But also we might be havingdifferent types of
(10:26):
conversations.
There's a very different way toprepare or think about something
that, hey, I know in week seventhe Tuesday class is going to be
on, you know, some reallypressing subjects versus someone
said something and I need torespond.
Or someone says something that'soff topic or maybe someone else
(10:47):
is offended by that.
Those are very differentsituations, but we also wanna
think about what does that meanto, again, continue student
learning, continue trying tomeet the learning goals, and
hopefully everyone, like youmentioned, Kelly, feels included
in the course.
That includes the instructor.
We're important people in thatspace as well, who are.
(11:08):
Again, often forgotten in myopinion.
So some of the things we mightbe thinking about, certainly I
would definitely refer some ofour listeners back to season
one, episode eight, when wediscussed writing about
challenging topics.
Because I think that gives someinteresting examples,
particularly from thehumanities.
But these certainly aren'tnecessarily just discipline
(11:29):
specific.
That's not to say in a STEMfield or public health or some
other area, that we're not goingto have very challenging topics
as well.
So it could be, again, like Imentioned, you know, someone
says something that might beoffensive to another student.
But also we might be talkingabout content.
We might be talking about, howmaybe a team of engineers could
(11:52):
go into a particular community.
How do we do that?
How do we do that productively?
How do you build connections,especially if there are
different types of powerdynamics?
You know, you're not a member ofthat community.
You're coming in to solve somesort of engineering problem.
What are those dynamics?
How do those interactions work?
(12:12):
So lots of different thingsthere.
I mean, that's certainly justone tiny, tiny example in a
whole sea of examples.
But I think there's a lot ofthings that we wanna be thinking
very expansively.
What's difficult, what are theways people might be interacting
with topics even when they'renot perceived necessarily as
controversial?
Kelly (12:31):
Right, absolutely.
So earlier, like I mentioned,faculty build their own syllabi,
right?
And they can kind of anticipatewhen these difficult
conversations might come up.
But as you briefly mentionedbefore, not everything or every
possible situation can be knownin advance.
(12:52):
So how might we prepareourselves, our classroom, our
course design even, for thoseunexpected situations?
Rachel (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's a certainknowledge if you're going in you
know a topic's going to bedifficult, that might help a bit
actually.
But when we're talking aboutmanaging discussions in the
moment, essentially we areattempting to manage emotions
and events as they play out inthat moment.
So here, obviously I am talkingabout some sort of synchronous
(13:24):
course, but also these do applyto asynchronous courses.
Just discussion boards or otherasynchronous interactions might
be slightly different.
But really what we wanna bethinking about here are some
ideas of how we can support, howwe can intervene.
And also the other piece is howto follow up.
And so one of the things thatmight kind of cross over in our
(13:45):
conversation here from how weprepare to how we handle things
in the moment is having pausing,for instance, be an expectation.
So not only for us, obviously asthe instructor or teaching
assistant, whatever our role is,we can always say, okay, let's
take a pause here.
But we can also set thatexpectation for the class that
students can also say like, Hey,let's take a pause here.
(14:09):
Because the other thing is asthe instructor, especially in an
in-person modality orsynchronous modality, we aren't
always aware of everythingthat's going on in the moment or
everything that's going on inthe chat, or in a fully
asynchronous maybe we didn't seethe discussion board and what
was going on in there that day.
We checked it the next day.
So lots of different things wewanna be thinking about, but
(14:30):
here's the other place that wecan be thinking about how we,
especially in those synchronousenvironments, how we rehearse
our own pause phrases.
It sounds kind of ridiculous,but it's actually useful.
It's like that sort of musclememory thing.
The more we practice something,whether it's a hobby or cooking
or, you know, other interest,the better you get at it.
Right?
The same thing can be said here,so anything that fits obviously
(14:53):
for your personality too.
So it might be something like,Hey, I'm hearing whatever, I'd
like to pause so that we can dosomething.
That do something could be anynumber of activities.
You know, we might just take apause.
We might ask students to do somesort of like 60 second writing
prompt in their notes.
We might take that opportunityto refer back to ground rules,
(15:16):
whatever the case may be.
Because here we're reallythinking about how do we take
that metaphorical temperaturedown, if you will.
Kelly (15:25):
So we talked about some good strategies as far as how to
handle those difficultconversations, whether you are
prepared for it or unpreparedfor it.
But particularly when you'reunprepared for it, how would an
instructor, how could aninstructor know when they should
jump in, when they shouldinterject?
Rachel (15:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean, this is again, acrossmodalities.
Certainly in a discussion board,we could jump in and say, Hey,
let's take a pause here, youknow, and you could have a
statement or something likethat.
But really when we're thinkingabout these, deciding when and
how to intervene, we have quitea number of things that might
impact our decision.
(16:06):
And so this certainly isn't achecklist.
We're not gonna be like, okay,in the moment, let me think
about this, and then that, andthen that.
But in general, the things wemight be considering are, you
know, is this a teachablemoment?
Certainly there may be manytimes that a topic is important.
It might be a topic we're alsopersonally or professionally
(16:26):
interested in, but it might notbe relevant to the class.
Kelly (16:30):
I love a good, teachable moment.
That's my favorite phrase.
This is a teachable moment.
Rachel (16:36):
Yeah, I mean, we can even point it out.
It's like, Hey, if we're to usethe phrase like, bringing people
in, we wanna call in, let'sdiscuss this as a moment.
But, like I said, sometimes noteverything is that moment, but
if it is, great, let's dig in.
But also before we dig in, wemight be thinking about, you
know, is there enough time?
Because if there's not enoughtime, then we might do more harm
(16:59):
than good.
We might be causing some sort ofissue if we just kind of
superficially discuss somethingand then, okay, let's move on.
That could be more harmful.
It just depends on the topic, ofcourse.
And so if there's not enoughtime though, especially this is
obviously most relevant insynchronous courses, we can
acknowledge that, Hey, we needto talk about this.
We don't have time today.
(17:20):
I need to go over the assignmentfor this week.
We need to talk about this, butit's important, so let's come
back to it in our class onThursday.
Certainly, obviously theimportant part there is the
accountability and actuallycoming back to it in class on
Thursday.
But also perhaps not everythingneeds to be a full class
conversation.
Maybe it's something that youfollow up with an email.
(17:42):
Maybe it's something that youconnect with in a different way.
A discussion board post, a postin the learning management
system like Canvas, somethinglike that.
Other considerations we might bethinking about, like when and
how to intervene are reallythings like, do I have the
skills?
Do I have the stamina?
And the interest, especially, infacilitating this conversation,
(18:03):
not only in this moment, but arethere resources that I need?
Because if we say, okay, hey,let's come back to it on
Thursday, this is reallyimportant.
I wanna make sure we do well indiscussing this.
Maybe there's some resources.
Maybe you need to readsomething.
Maybe it's not right in your,like, wheelhouse of expertise.
Or maybe you wanna talk tosomeone in your unit, your
(18:25):
administration of like, Hey, howdo you recommend I handle this?
Maybe you're a new facultymember.
It's like, I am just gettinginto the practice of this.
What do I do here?
And so really thinking aboutwhat support you need is also
important there.
Kelly (18:39):
I think that was something that in a previous
episode was talked about wherewe had our guests, Raven and
Laurel, in season two, Iremember them talking about the
importance of sometimesadmitting that you don't know it
all to your students, and I lovethat.
Just kind of leveling with themand taking this as a teaching
(19:01):
opportunity also for yourself.
Like, Hey, so we've come into apart of this conversation that I
actually don't think I have allthe resources, all the skills to
handle right now.
So let's table this.
I'll do some more work and comeback to it.
I really like that.
I think it can be reallypowerful to see faculty admit to
that honestly.
Rachel (19:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, and it's hard as aninstructor, I mean, there's sort
of this pressure to know all thethings, to be absolutely perfect
to know every single thing andsometimes we just don't.
You know, Hey, I forget.
I need to go look that up.
You know, we use our resources.
Kelly (19:39):
And also, like you said, we bring ourselves, we bring our
own experiences and identitiesinto the situation.
So we also might not know allthe time when there is a
difficult conversation coming upor when we might need to
interject.
Rachel (19:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, we're not always goingto be knowledgeable in every
single thing that's said.
Students might bring insomething very interesting, very
timely, and maybe that's notsomething that we are quite
familiar with yet, but it's anopportunity for us as well.
And so the other thing about on,you know, when and how to
(20:14):
intervene again acrossmodalities, we might be thinking
about the other side.
Again, it's not a checklist, butwe might be thinking about the
consequences if, for instance,we do or do not engage in the
conversation, you know, in thatmoment.
And so there might be impacts,like we were talking about
earlier on student learning.
(20:34):
You know, if you don't feel likeyou belong in the class or that
you're part of the class, you'reprobably not going to learn very
well.
There could be that one classsession, hopefully not, but
there could be, that changes thedynamics for the rest of the
semester.
You know, obviously these arethe kinds of things we want,
perhaps, with this conversationto avoid.
But we also might be thinkingabout the impacts on the
(20:56):
instructor.
Certainly things that might besaid can harm the instructor as
well, but also things likecourse evaluations, what
students say in that type ofanonymous forum impact different
types of appointmentsdifferently.
And that's something that justis how this, you know, system is
set up and so reappointment,depending on different types of
(21:20):
positions, can have differentimpacts, unfortunately.
And also, you know, students'reactions beyond the classroom.
We might be thinking about, youknow, if something escalates
further, how do I, hopefullyprevent things from escalating
further from moving into otherspaces.
But also overall the practice ofteaching.
(21:40):
You know, we're looking at ourown growth, our own learning.
As an instructor, you know, ifyou've been teaching long
enough, you kind of get to thatpoint of I've seen it all.
And then in fact you realize youhave not seen it all.
'cause there's this other thingthat happened.
So it's really looking atteaching as that sort of
iterative practice as well.
How do we show up?
How do we learn from things?
(22:02):
How do we continue to grow andimprove just like we want our
students to grow and improve?
Kelly (22:07):
So what do you see as our keystone concept for today that
you hope our listeners take awayfrom this episode?
Rachel (22:16):
Yeah, I think the keystone concept here is there
are lots of difficultconversations and situations in
teaching.
It could be something we'reready for and know that, hey,
this is gonna be challenging.
It might not be.
But they take a lot of practice,they take a lot of commitment,
you know, commitment to studentlearning, commitment to a
successful day or session orlesson, whatever the case may
(22:37):
be.
And there are a lot of internaland external factors that impact
our decision making, impact thedynamics, impact the moment,
whatever that is.
I mean certainly as we'rethinking about how do we not
only prepare, but also how wehandle situations in the moment,
it's thinking through what mightbe likely, also what might be
less likely.
You know, so we've mentioned inother episodes maybe talking to
(23:00):
other people who have taught thecourse.
You know, if this is somethingthat you inherited, but maybe if
it's something that you'redesigning, it's really, what can
you anticipate?
Where might the sticking pointsbe?
And then being ready for thesticking points that you didn't
know about.
But as we do this, we reallywanna be thinking about who our
resources are and where ourresources are.
(23:22):
So obviously our keyconsiderations there are really
thinking about our ownpreparation, preparing early,
talking with our students fromday one.
What are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Why is this important to yourprofessional preparation?
And we also wanna be thinkingabout our resources in terms of
talking with colleagues.
Certainly we want to be able toprocess, we want to be able to
discuss situations.
(23:43):
And get that support whileobviously, you know, FERPA
expectations like studentprivacy expectations, but we
wanna have that community.
We wanna think about is that inour department?
Are there other colleagues whoteach similar courses?
Is this going to the Teachingand Learning Center and building
my community that way?
Or any other thing.
We really want to be focusedhere overall on our own academic
(24:08):
and professional integrity.
And so as we do that, what doesthat look like?
What do expectations look like?
Where are our resources?
That could be, you know, programdirector, department chair, you
know, a college's facultyaffairs dean or dean's office
representative, something likethat.
But it might not be, we mightnot be going to someone in our
academic line, if you will.
(24:29):
Maybe we're thinking aboutpeople in other offices, you
know, faculty affairs types ofoffices, teaching and learning
centers.
Maybe the undergraduate coreoffice, if that's the type of
course, or even campus affinitygroups.
But really here, you know,obviously, and this is a
certainly a short episode, it'snot comprehensive.
We really wanna just be focusedhere on our keystone concept,
(24:50):
our key takeaway's really beingthat difficult conversations
happen and that they takepractice and commitment and
really rely on a lot of internaland external factors.
Kelly (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaking of community, it's beenreally cool on some of our
episodes watching the dynamicbetween our episodes where there
are multiple guests, becauseusually these people are either
in a cohort already together orthey've found each other through
working on similar projects oron a grant or a Stearns Center
(25:21):
facilitated program even.
So it's been really coolwatching these faculty members
as our podcast guests find theircommunity.
Rachel (25:31):
Finding your community, finding your people whoever that
might be, whoever your resourcesare, someone supportive to
really have that resource foryou as the instructor as well,
that support is reallyessential.
Kelly (25:45):
Great.
Well, thank you for yourinsights on this topic, Rachel.
Um, our, our host.
Rachel (25:52):
Yeah, it's fun to be on this side.
Kelly (25:54):
I know, I always look forward to these episodes
because while I do like being inthe background, sometimes it is
fun to come into the foregroundevery now and then.
Rachel (26:06):
Well thank you.
Thank you for hosting.
Kelly (26:08):
Yeah, of course.
Well, thank you listeners forjoining us on our second Hear
From Your Host episode.
Be sure to continue to listenalong as we post episodes every
two weeks as we explore keystoneconcepts in teaching.
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